Military Review

Problems of the frigate Baden-Württemberg and the threat to the F125 program

48
At the beginning of the twentieth of December last year, an interesting message came from Germany. According to the German media, the command of the country's naval forces for the first time in stories decided to return the already accepted ship to the manufacturer, who made many mistakes during its construction. The main frigate of the project F125 under the name Baden-Württemberg will be able to return to the German Navy only after all defects have been corrected. This decision should also affect the fate of three other F125 ships.


The lead combat ship of the new F125 project - the Baden-Württemberg - was built relatively recently, and at the end of 2016 it was transferred to the German naval forces. Over the next few months, German sailors mastered the frigate and prepared for the start of a full service. In the summer of 2017, it was planned to take him into combat fleet. However, soon the most serious conclusions followed about the unavailability of the ship for normal operation. Already in the spring of last year, it became known that Baden-Württemberg has a number of the most serious drawbacks.


Frigate Baden-Württemberg at the pier. 14 August 2017


In mid-May, the foreign press, citing a classified report to the command of the German naval forces, announced the discovery of a whole list of serious shortcomings. The main frigate of the new project, F125, turned out to be overweight, which could prevent further upgrades. He had problems with balancing: due to errors in the construction, the ship had a constant roll of 1,3 ° to starboard. The need to carry out these or other work and correct these shortcomings led to the failure of plans. The ship did not reach operational readiness at a previously determined time.

A little later, the media in Germany and other countries reported the presence of other problems. During the tests, it was possible to identify certain shortcomings of electronic equipment and software. In particular, deficiencies interfered with the normal operation of the central post, from which all ship systems are managed.

According to the original schedule, in the first half of last year, the German Navy had to carry out the necessary checks, after which Baden-Württemberg would be able to replenish the fleet combat force and begin full service. However, this did not happen. Improvements, checks and new corrections of deficiencies continued until the end of the year, until the appearance of a new fundamental decision of the command.

In December, it became known that the German admirals were forced to resort to the most serious measures. At that time, the head frigate of the F125 type still had a lot of problems with electronics, onboard systems, design, etc. To resolve this situation, the command decided to return the ship to the plant that built it. It is the shipbuilding company that will now have to carry out all the necessary improvements and repairs, after which the frigate can be returned to the fleet. Previously, the German Navy never returned to shipbuilders an already accepted ship, which shows the exceptional nature of the current situation.

The construction of two F125 projects of the four ordered was carried out by Blohm + Voss (Kiel). Now he, possibly with the participation of other participants in the project, will have to finalize the lead frigate and save him from the identified problems. Apparently, in the future, the plant will have to update the second new frigate, which is already under test. Only after the completion of such work, the naval forces will be able to get the desired series of the newest ships with outstanding characteristics.

Problems of the frigate Baden-Württemberg and the threat to the F125 program
Scheme frigate type F125


The development of the project of a promising frigate for the German Navy was carried out by the consortium ARGE F125, which included all the leading shipbuilding enterprises in the country. The creation of a project that meets the modern requirements of the fleet was completed at the turn of the past and the current decades. Already in 2007, a contract for the construction of a series of four frigates appeared. For the supply of the Navy ships were ready to pay 2,2 billion euros. Subsequently, additional funding was needed, and the cost of a single frigate reached 650 million euros.

A promising project of the frigate F125 was developed to replace the aging ships of the type F122 / Bremen. From the beginning of the eighties, the fleet of the Federal Republic of Germany received eight similar frigates with rocket, artillery and torpedo armament. Several years ago, the naval forces began to abandon the frigates of the Bremen project because of their moral and physical obsolescence. From 2014 to 2017, six ships were built from the fleet until the mid-eighties. The newer frigates Augsburg and Lübeck are still in service.

At the beginning of November 2011, the groundbreaking ceremony for the lead ship of the new project, named Baden-Württemberg, took place in Kiel. In October of the following year, the first Nordrhein-Westfalen serial frigate was laid in Bremen. In June, 2014-th in Kiel launched the construction of the third ship of the series Sachsen-Anhalt. The fourth frigate of the type F125, Rheinland-Pfalz, laid in Bremen at the end of January 2015. No further construction was planned - to replace the 6-8 frigates of the Bremen type, it was planned to build only four new ships.

The construction of promising frigates did not encounter serious problems, which made it possible to complete it in accordance with the established schedule. In mid-December, the 2013 of the year launched the headline Baden-Württemberg. In April, the 2015-th launched the first serial "North Rhine-Westphalia". In March 2016, the completion of the Saxony-Anhalt wall began. In May of last year, the fourth frigate of the project, the Rhineland-Palatinate, was launched.

Of the four ships to date, only one has been handed over to the naval forces - the head Baden-Württemberg. The Navy conducted its own tests, during which the most serious shortcomings were identified. To get rid of the existing problems, he was handed over to the shipbuilding plant, which had previously made mistakes. One of the consequences of this is the delay in the delivery of the other three ships. Apparently, the completion and testing of new frigates will have to be suspended indefinitely. When Blohm + Voss and other members of the ARGE F125 consortium can complete the final design of the lead ship, it will be possible to upgrade and improve the remaining frigates, which may have the same drawbacks.


"Baden-Württemberg", a view of the stern. 30 April 2017


The required work will take some time, due to which the deadlines for the delivery of all four frigates will noticeably shift to the right. In accordance with the original schedule, the head frigate Baden-Württemberg was to join the fleet at the end of 2016. For the summer of 2019, they appointed the acceptance of the last Rheinland-Pfalz. Obviously, now the whole series will be able to pass no earlier than 2020-22. However, the timing of the commencement of the full service of the ships depends primarily on the amount of required modifications and the need to upgrade the second, third and fourth frigates.

Project F125 offers the construction of a relatively large surface ship, capable of solving a wide range of combat missions. The frigates, according to the project, should have a length of about 150 m with a maximum width of 18,8 m and a normal draft of 5 m. Full displacement - 7200 t. The crew includes 110 people, but can be increased to solve special problems. In developing some ideas and solutions were used concerning the reduction of visibility for the means of detecting the enemy, however, in general, ships are not distinguished by an unusual appearance.

A frigate of a new type must be equipped with a power plant of the CODLAG type - a combination of diesel-electric and gas-turbine systems. The use of 4 diesel generators with a power of 2,9 MW, two electric motors with a power of 4,7 MW and 20-megawatt gas turbine engine is envisaged. There is also one bow thruster with an 1 MW engine. With the help of two gearboxes, the power of the electric motors is distributed to the two propeller shaft. The third such unit is responsible for connecting the gas turbine engine.

Using only diesel-electric units, according to calculations, allows the frigate of type F125 to reach speeds up to 20 units. Connecting the gas turbine power plant brings the maximum speed to 26 nodes. Cruising range at optimum fuel consumption is defined in nautical miles 4000.

A new type of ship is equipped with a developed complex of electronic equipment for various purposes. The main means of monitoring and searching for targets are Cassidian TRS-4D and KORA-18 radars. Also provides for the installation of several radar control weapons. There is a hydroacoustic station capable of searching for enemy swimmers. Hydroacoustic equipment to search for submarines is absent. To protect against a possible attack, the frigate can use the optical-electronic and electronic warfare system MASS.


Artillery installation and superstructure of the head frigate


The main percussion means of F125 frigates in the existing configuration are RGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missiles. Onboard there are launchers for eight such products. It should be noted that the “Harpoon” missiles are considered a temporary solution, since the promising anti-ship missile RBS 15 MK4 is being developed for new German ships. After its appearance, the "Baden-Württemberg" and the ships of the same type will be upgraded with the replacement of the impact missile system.

Missiles can also be used to repel air attacks. The project involves the use of two launchers of RIM-116 RAM Block II missiles with an 21 cell on each.

F125 frigates must carry a developed set of barreled weapons for various purposes. In the bow of the deck mounted artillery installation of the Italian company Otobreda with a gun caliber 127 mm. For the attack of ground targets at ranges up to 100 km, this system can use Vulcano guided missiles. There are several remote-controlled combat module with automatic guns and machine guns. Two MGL 27 modules are equipped with 27-mm automatic cannons. Along the perimeter of the ship are five products Hitrole-HT with large-caliber machine guns. Two more similar machine guns are mounted on thumbnail installations and controlled directly by the shooter.

A curious feature of F125 frigates is the absence of any anti-submarine defense weapons. Ships are not equipped with sonar search systems for submarines, and also do not have weapons for their destruction. For comparison, on the replaced frigates of the project F122 / Bremen there were both hydro-acoustic complexes and torpedo tubes.

In certain situations, the ship may use additional samples of equipment. So, in the rear of the superstructure there is a hangar for two NH-90 helicopters. On the sides of the superstructure there are four paddles for unloading rigid-hull inflatable boats. Also on board the ship there are unskilled underwater vehicles capable of conducting reconnaissance and surveillance.


The frigate Nordrhein-Westfalen on trial, May 2017


The proposed set of airborne equipment and weapons allows frigates of the type F125 to search and attack surface, air and ground targets of various kinds. In this case, the customer refused to use ships in anti-submarine defense. As a result, the project provided for the construction of ships with a fairly wide range of tasks to be solved, although with certain limitations.

In accordance with the original plans, in 2016-2019, the German naval forces were to receive four new frigates, named after different lands. They even managed to transfer the lead ship to the fleet and send it to a new stage of testing. As it became known last spring, these checks ended with more than unpleasant conclusions. The main thing is the need to refine the ship in a shipbuilding plant. As a result, the first frigate of the new type, Baden-Württemberg, was returned to the shipyard to perform the necessary work.

For the first time in the history of the German fleet, the built and adopted ship had to be returned to shipbuilders for rework. How long the necessary work will continue is not yet specified. It may take several months or several years to fine-tune the ship. Perhaps in the future you will need a similar restructuring of other ships of the series.

When the Baden-Württemberg returns to service, it is unknown. At the same time, it is now clear that the entire F125 project has faced the most serious problems, and now its future is in question. It is unlikely that the command will decide to completely abandon the four new ships, but the program for their construction is clearly being delayed. It was previously assumed that the fourth frigate of the series will enter service before 2020. Now, after a series of special News, there is every reason to believe that by this date it will not be possible to hand over even the lead ship.

When the consortium ARGE F125 received an order for the construction of new frigates and began construction of the lead fighter, there were eight ships of the F122 / Bremen type in the German Navy. Over the years, the fleet had to write off six such frigates, and the rest could be abandoned in the foreseeable future. The current problems of the new project F125 have already prevented the timely replacement of obsolete ships and can now hit the combat capability of the naval forces. Whether Germany will be able to solve actual problems and get the desired ships that fully comply with the technical requirements, it will be known only in a few years.


On the materials of the sites:
https://navaltoday.com/
http://marine.de/
http://naval-technology.com/
https://wsj.com/
Author:
Photos used:
Marine.de, Wikimedia Commons
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  1. Vard
    Vard 19 January 2018 08: 16 New
    +8
    I came to the company ... I had almost four hundred French-made controllers in operation ... by the way, they put them at their nuclear power plants ... and so they burn ... one by one ... everything had to be ... exactly everything ... sensitively treated with a soldering iron ... At the same time, the service company in Russia turned on the fool ... began to sort it out ... It turns out that the emigrant women got into the assembly ... From here the quality ... And it seems the same here ...
    1. 32363
      32363 19 January 2018 12: 26 New
      0
      Quote: Vard
      I came to the company ... I had almost four hundred French-made controllers in operation ... by the way, they put them at their nuclear power plants ... and so they burn ... one by one ... everything had to be ... exactly everything ... sensitively treated with a soldering iron ... At the same time, the service company in Russia turned on the fool ... began to sort it out ... It turns out that the emigrant women got into the assembly ... From here the quality ... And it seems the same here ...

      migrants are not allowed to such orders wink
      1. Terran
        Terran 20 January 2018 10: 11 New
        0
        I doubt that they will not let us in, for example, they will let us in. Now in shipbuilding for lack of its suitable price / quality, a lot of workers from Ukraine, especially from Nikolaev. I know for sure, even on submarines of Warsaw in the Admiralty. But all right, they usually have experience and qualifications, but I met on the orders of the court the auxiliary fleet and brigade from the sunny countries of Central Asia. How would you say, with the FSB check to allow people to order it is not so simple. Since there is simply nowhere to take skilled workers in fact, there are no structures that reproduce at least slightly acceptable personnel according to this criterion, and you need parades, but how to build ?? here they scrape at least a small ruble both from the provinces and from neighboring countries ...
        So in an imperfect world, you’ll get the feel of making imperfect decisions if you want to complete a task.
  2. sd68
    sd68 19 January 2018 10: 47 New
    +1
    Not a frigate, but a masterpiece of engineering of a gloomy Teutonic genius.
    With a displacement, the destroyer has an exorbitant price, it does not have air defense, except self-defense air defense, and if it is also overloaded, it is even cooler.
    who would advise the Germans to simply buy a frigate project from the French, for example, frigates of the Formidebl type — 6 pieces built in Singapore on the basis of the French Lafayette — for 1,6 billion.
    Displacement -3200, crew of 90 people, full-fledged air defense - 32 cells of Aster air defense missiles, a fully steel hull and a full-fledged stealth.

    Moreover, their German Saxony-type F124 frigates are smaller in displacement, in terms of armament and capabilities, immeasurably superior to this engineering miracle with 10 km air defense - it has 32 full-fledged Mk41 cells for 56 medium and long-range air defense missiles, plus those two complexes of self-defense of Syram.
    1. ISSIDOR
      ISSIDOR 19 January 2018 10: 55 New
      0
      In addition, the HACK does not have, inferior.
    2. Goodvin55
      Goodvin55 19 January 2018 13: 31 New
      0
      The project, to put it mildly, is not unambiguous but milestone for the Germans. The most interesting thing is that the Germans built it in the same period that ours build mastered for decades 11356. I am already silent about Gorshkov who has been tortured for 11 years and not the fact that they torment him.
  3. bratchanin3
    bratchanin3 19 January 2018 13: 16 New
    0
    Grinded the Germans. The Third Reich built military ships better.
    1. 32363
      32363 19 January 2018 13: 39 New
      0
      Quote: bratchanin3
      Grinded the Germans. The Third Reich built military ships better.

      The Germans defend at a pace that you never dreamed of. hi
      1. bratchanin3
        bratchanin3 19 January 2018 13: 42 New
        0
        Isn’t it already? Here is an article about the same!
      2. yehat
        yehat 19 January 2018 17: 39 New
        0
        let them build Bismarck with the ability to immerse, a nuclear reactor and a battering ram - you will get an unkillable vessel with high autonomy and not requiring ammunition, although not,
        Jules Verne already had ...
  4. Berkut24
    Berkut24 19 January 2018 13: 27 New
    +1
    Not handsome. And the lack of anti-submarine defense generally plunged me into a stupor.
    1. arkadiyssk
      arkadiyssk 19 January 2018 18: 31 New
      0
      Why you are not plunged into a stupor, for example, the lack of weapons in the English - EM type "Dering." Does the RF doctrine only make sense - each vessel is a Death Star?
      And the separation of functions between ships is impossible?
      1. Berkut24
        Berkut24 19 January 2018 18: 44 New
        +1
        The separation of functions between ships and weapons as at Arkley Burke leads to the fact that these ships in combat conditions can never leave the port alone. And the death of a partner automatically leads to the death of the first ship.
        1. sd68
          sd68 19 January 2018 20: 52 New
          0
          Arly Burke is just universal.
          the only thing they don’t have is heavy RCC, but within the framework of the doctrine, ships do not fight ships, this is the business of aviation, enough for self-defense and missile defense.
          However, they have already done heavy RCC.
          1. Berkut24
            Berkut24 19 January 2018 21: 32 New
            0
            And I read that their launch complex is designed so that either one is loaded into the mines, or the other. All at once - nothing.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 20 January 2018 02: 37 New
              0
              Quote: Berkut24
              either either one is loaded into the mines, or the other. All at once - nothing.

              It’s impossible to load everything from one mine at once, you are right. And in different - completely.
              Quote: KaPToC
              And where did they put this heavy rocket, which actually is not?

              This one, which is not? Anywhere.
            2. sd68
              sd68 20 January 2018 02: 46 New
              0
              No, you can just ship different. what is the trick
          2. KaPToC
            KaPToC 20 January 2018 00: 37 New
            0
            Quote: sd68
            However, they have already done heavy RCC.

            And where did they put this heavy rocket, which actually is not?
            1. sd68
              sd68 20 January 2018 02: 48 New
              0
              in MK-41, video above.
              In addition, the new Tomahawk with the RCC function make
              1. KaPToC
                KaPToC 20 January 2018 11: 31 New
                0
                Quote: sd68
                In addition, the new Tomahawk with the RCC function make

                First, the Tomahawk is not a heavy rocket.
                Secondly - and they are trying to make RCC from the tomahawk from the very beginning, everything does not work out in any way. In fact, the problem is not on the tomahawk, the tomahawk is an excellent rocket, the problem in the Mk41 cells is too small, the Americans cannot fit normal RCC into it.
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 20 January 2018 16: 00 New
                  0
                  Quote: KaPToC
                  In fact, the problem is not on the tomahawk, the tomahawk is an excellent rocket, the problem in the Mk41 cells is too small, the Americans cannot fit normal RCC into it.

                  "Actually" the problem is that they do not really need it - aviation is responsible for the destruction of the NK.
                  If the opinion changes, then change the tomahawk brains for long. Instead of supersonic, rush helps well, which is quite in American tradition.
                  1. KaPToC
                    KaPToC 20 January 2018 16: 30 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    "Actually" the problem is that they do not really need it - aviation is responsible for the destruction of the NK.

                    As practice has shown, aviation is not omnipotent, the Americans put all their eggs in one basket, and when the bottom is leaky, they are feverishly thinking how to proceed.
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    If the opinion changes, then change the tomahawk brains for long.

                    Replacing the brain is not enough, it is necessary to change (improve) the performance characteristics of the rocket, and fundamentally, but then it turns out to be too large for the MK41.
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    Instead of supersonic, rush helps well, which is quite in American tradition.

                    You replayed computer games, as practice has shown - quality is not compensated by quantity.
                    1. Cherry Nine
                      Cherry Nine 20 January 2018 16: 41 New
                      0
                      Quote: KaPToC
                      think feverishly what to do next

                      Not too feverish as far as I can tell.
                      Quote: KaPToC
                      it is necessary to change (improve) the performance characteristics of the rocket, and fundamentally, but then it turns out to be too large for the MK41.

                      That is why it is possible to improve the performance characteristics of missiles in a fairly moderate range. Mk41 certainly more important than supersonic anti-ship missiles.
                      Quote: KaPToC
                      quality is not compensated by quantity.

                      What practice has shown you this? Practice of incidents with anti-ship missiles has shown me that either the EW crushes the rocket, and then its performance characteristics do not care, or it does not crush, and then it also does not care. The small probability that the air defense of the ship will get it becomes even smaller either with a decrease in the time spent in the air defense zone, or with an increase in the number of missiles, or both. From this point of view, the guidance of the Hokai missile defense, and, consequently, the radical growth of the air defense / missile defense zone, is much more important.
                      1. KaPToC
                        KaPToC 20 January 2018 17: 45 New
                        0
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Not too feverish as far as I can tell.

                        While the Americans have a total numerical superiority at sea - their lag in missiles is imperceptible, or maybe they don’t understand what kind of priest their fleet is in.
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        That is why it is possible to improve the performance characteristics of missiles in a fairly moderate range.

                        These limits were insufficient.
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Mk41 is certainly more important than supersonic anti-ship missiles.

                        This is a major mistake in the construction of the US Navy - MK41. The hope was for Zumvolts with new cells, but something did not grow together.
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        It’s unlikely that the ship’s air defense will get it.

                        I note that the chances of shooting down a subsonic missile are very high, the same tomahawks are felling in packs. But the point here is not even the probability of a shot down. The fact is that ships with heavy missiles will fire earlier - because they have more long-range missiles and will hit the enemy earlier - because they have faster missiles.
                      2. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 20 January 2018 18: 00 New
                        +1
                        Quote: KaPToC
                        their lag in missiles imperceptibly

                        About the lag of the Americans in rockets, they mainly talk about people who consider leadership the continuation of the RIM-8 Talos line, banned 40 years ago.
                        Quote: KaPToC
                        These limits were insufficient.

                        Not enough for what? How exactly did it turn out?
                        Quote: KaPToC
                        This is a major mistake in the construction of the US Navy.

                        This is a brilliant solution that has become the standard for all fleets, including, with a huge lag, of the Russian one.
                        Quote: KaPToC
                        the same tomahawks felled in batches

                        Did someone lack tomahawks?
                        Quote: KaPToC
                        The fact is that ships with heavy missiles will fire earlier

                        Previously, the one who detects the target will shoot. Those. one who has AWACS or strategic UAVs.
  5. K-50
    K-50 19 January 2018 13: 42 New
    0
    the artillery mount of the Italian company Otobreda with a 127 mm caliber gun. To attack ground targets at ranges up to 100 km, this system can use guided Vulcano shells

    Something's not right. recourse No.
    Mediocre, in terms of power, the gun mount fires for 100 km. Rave!!! Even with the most artillery shells this will not happen. Why voice this nonsense? sad
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 19 January 2018 14: 02 New
      0
      Quote: K-50
      Mediocre, in terms of power, the gun mount fires for 100 km. Rave!!! Even with the most artillery shells this will not happen. Why voice this nonsense?

      Judging by the description on the manufacturer’s website, the Vulcano projectile is a sub-caliber projectile with developed plumage.

      Hence the epic range in a controlled form.
      We, too, pomnitsa, were fond of ultra-long-range firing of caliber shells.
      Before the start of World War II, an experimental batch of extra-long sub-caliber shells (drawing 1941) designed for shooting along the coast was designed and manufactured in the first half of 2042. Active projectile caliber 210 mm, Vo = 1275 m / s, range 100 km.

      Despite the fact that for traditional caliber projectiles the ranges were much less:
      For shells of the sample of 1911, a charge weighing 132 kg of grade 305/52, 1 / in = 762 m / s, firing range of 23 m at an angle of + 228 ° and 25 m at an angle of + 28 ° was adopted.
      For high-explosive shell arr. 1928 - a charge weighing 140 kg of the same brand, Vo- 950 m / s, range 34 019 m at an angle of + 25 ° and 44 079 m at an angle of + 40 °.
    2. sd68
      sd68 19 January 2018 14: 03 New
      0
      this is not nonsense.
      active - rocket guided missiles.
      the Americans are similar.

      https://bmpd.livejournal.com/327066.html
      1. K-50
        K-50 19 January 2018 14: 53 New
        0
        Quote: sd68
        active - rocket guided missiles.
        the Americans are similar.

        Well, do we have them and what? Give characteristics so that, at least, approach these hundred kilometers. And not advertising, but real ones. We remember that the active-reactive from Malki did not fly further than 48 (Active-reactive 3VOF35 flies further by 47,5 km (according to some reports, even more than 55). - Read more on FB.ru: http: // fb .ru / article / 166120 / gaubitsa-pion-harakte
        ristiki-samohodnaya-gaubitsa-s-pion
        The "coalition" is also within these limits, although their caliber is much larger, therefore, the shooting should be further. So the presence of active-reactive sub-caliber does not in any way block the possibility of firing at such a distance. request
        1. sd68
          sd68 19 January 2018 15: 48 New
          0
          According to the characteristics of the Americans, the APC caliber 127 mm fly 116 km, Vulkano 100.
          The article was essno written according to the specifications specified by the manufacturer.

          and what bothers you? less charge weight, more fuel, more range.
          efficiency, clearly falls at the same time.
          this feature is not only and not so much the weapon as the projectile itself
        2. sd68
          sd68 19 January 2018 15: 54 New
          0
          I understood your question so that you did not take into account the use of APC, and therefore wrote it.
          In advertising they continue to shoot, but as in reality, I do not argue, if you know, write
          1. K-50
            K-50 19 January 2018 17: 49 New
            0
            This is all advertising. Compare the gun power of the AK-130 or A-192 with the 127-mm gun of the Italian company Otobreda. With comparable calibres, barrel length and mass of installations, ours shoots one and a half times less. And now attention is the question. And why are there no screams that our gun mount is worse? Maybe the whole thing is in the inflated indicators of the "bourgeois"?
            I’m not discussing this topic anymore, it’s boring. Because there is no evidence that everything you painted is not an advertisement for the "military power of capitalism." hi
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 19 January 2018 19: 22 New
              0
              Quote: K-50
              This is all advertising. Compare the gun power of the AK-130 or A-192 with the 127-mm gun of the Italian company Otobreda. With comparable calibres, barrel length and mass of installations, ours shoots one and a half times less. And now attention is the question. And why are there no screams that our gun mount is worse? Maybe the whole thing is in the inflated indicators of the "bourgeois"?

              Look carefully at the image of the shell on the advertisement. More precisely, to cut a shot. See the difference between the diameter of the plumage, rudders and body of the projectile? And the difference in diameter of the projectile in the lower and upper parts of the section?
              Vulcano is a subcaliber. And they fly on - remember about the domestic 210-mm subcaliber for 305/52. Plus, the Vulcano has a fairly developed plumage - so that it is already closer to the planning munition.
            2. sd68
              sd68 19 January 2018 20: 54 New
              0
              I did not discuss with you.
              but on the other side
              in fact, Italians in the matter of naval artillery are practically monopolists. It’s difficult to call them mediocre 127 mm; the whole world is buying.
              1. K-50
                K-50 19 January 2018 22: 21 New
                0
                Quote: sd68
                in fact, Italians in the matter of naval artillery are practically monopolists.

                I will give you an example of other bourgeois art developments.
                PzH 2000:
                The self-propelled gun is equipped with a 155-mm gun with a length of 52 caliber, capable of firing shells at a range of up to 30 km. The howitzer holds a world record - at a firing range in South Africa, she fired 56 km with a V-LAP (active-rocket projectile with improved aerodynamics).
                Self-propelled guns "Paladin": capable of firing shells at a range of 30 km.
                Now explain to me why the “super-duper technology” of super long-range shooting is not illuminated anywhere else?
                Yes, because it is not possible in principle on this technical development. For this, the Yankens wanted to use their electro-magnetic art installations from Zumvolt, but this is also a bummer.
                Therefore, when you want to believe in rubbish, then at least try to find analogies in order to shake the notorious "noodles" from your ears. Analyze, finally, information, and not blindly repeat it.
                I’m not talking more about this topic. hi
                1. sd68
                  sd68 19 January 2018 23: 39 New
                  0
                  and I don’t repeat, I just state that it is written in their advertisement and in their test reports. Personally, I didn’t measure by the steps how far they fly, but a short search gives such results, including
                  At the White Sands Missile Range test site in June, the 4 155-mm LRLAP shells were fired. The shells, successfully leaving the barrel of the gun, caught the GPS signal, and, having overcome the distance 83 of a kilometer, aimed at the targets, hitting them. In this case, the programmable fuses worked in normal mode. Previously, successful shooting at a distance of 116 kilometers was already carried out. Test firing is scheduled for completion by the end of this year.

                  https://topwar.ru/30642-proshli-ispytaniya-novogo
                  -artilleriyskogo-snaryad-s-rekordnoy-dalnostyu-st
                  relby.html
                  On September 22, the U.S. Navy reported that on August 30, two successful tests of the 155-mm Long Range Land Attack Projectile (LRLAP) in their full combat configuration were carried out at the White Sands training ground in New Mexico. Both shells successfully hit targets at a distance of 45 nautical miles. These tests were called by the representative of the US Navy "key stage" in the development of the LRLAP program.
                  The development of LRLAP guided missiles is carried out in the interests of the US Navy by BAE Systems and Lockheed Martin. These shells are considered as the main ammunition of the promising American 155-mm / 62 naval artillery mount BAE Systems AGS (Advanced Gun System), which should be equipped with three new generation destroyer destroyers of the DDG 1000 Zumwalt type. Due to the reduction of the Zumwalt-type shipbuilding program, BAE Systems is also currently developing a lightweight version of the AGS gun mount (denoted by AGS-L), which is offered to replace the 127 mm Mk 45 gun mount on the Arleigh Burke destroyers of the Flights I, II and IIA series. The LRLAP variant is also being developed in 127 mm caliber for use from the Mk 45 Mod 4 gun mount.
                  The LRLAP active-projectile caliber 155 mm has a length of 2,23 m, a total mass of 113 kg and a warhead weight of 25 kg (explosive weight PBXN-9 11,2 kg). Guidance system - combined inertial-satellite (GPS). The design maximum firing range should reach 74 nautical miles (137 km).

                  https://bmpd.livejournal.com/77102.html
                  Here is a description of the work on the shells of the Vulcano series, including tests
                  Integration and factory acceptance of the first completed 127/64 LW system took place in the first half of 2011, including live firing (over 150 shots) at the Cottrau artillery range. Installation on board the frigate ITS Carlo Bergamini took place in July 2011. Another important attractive feature of the 127/64 LW is that it was designed from the very beginning for firing a new generation of Vulcano long-range high-precision 127-mm submunition caliber ammunition. Developed by Oto Melara with funding for the Italian fleet, the 127 mm Vulcano program is being carried out in two parallel directions:

                  BER projectile (extended-range ballistic) with a universal fuse for optimizing the impact on the final section of the trajectory with a range of up to 60 km
                  extended-range guided projectile (GLR), stabilized by rotation, including GPS / IMU, nose steering surfaces and warhead with ready-made striking tungsten-steel elements; its actual range is 100 km

                  https://vpk.name/news/86243_flotyi_v_poiskah_toch
                  nogo_udara.html
                  Believe it or not, it’s your business, I personally don’t really worry, I’m not going to buy them personally yet lol
                  1. KaPToC
                    KaPToC 20 January 2018 00: 45 New
                    0
                    Quote: sd68
                    I’m not going to buy them personally

                    Key phrase. The cost of such ammunition approaches the cost of a rocket of similar power. Nowadays, it makes no sense to increase the range of a battle or the caliber of artillery, because missiles will be cheaper and more reliable.
                    1. sd68
                      sd68 20 January 2018 02: 49 New
                      0
                      a moot point.
                      Something I missiles in 30 kg in weight, shooting at 100 km I have not seen.
                      and this is a question of ammunition
                      1. KaPToC
                        KaPToC 20 January 2018 11: 35 New
                        0
                        Quote: sd68
                        Something I missiles in 30 kg in weight, shooting at 100 km I have not seen.
                        and this is a question of ammunition

                        It will be required - they will do it.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 19 January 2018 17: 49 New
        0
        Quote: sd68
        this is not nonsense.
        active - rocket guided missiles.

        Just Vulcano is not ARS. The manufacturer specifically emphasizes that this shell does not have an additional engine:
        Ballistic flight, no additional propulsion
        1. sd68
          sd68 19 January 2018 21: 08 New
          0
          indeed, it is not visible in the section that the APC, only, it seems, the bottom gas generator is green between the tail stabilizers.
          I was sure that only APCs would be fired at such ranges.
    3. yehat
      yehat 19 January 2018 17: 41 New
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      all honestly measured. missile, marine power shots.
  6. gregor6549
    gregor6549 20 January 2018 06: 11 New
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    It’s a normal frigate. The fact that he had to be returned to the factory has nothing to do with his combat properties. For the frigate, he has a solid set of weapons and special equipment capable of solving a wide range of combat missions, including anti-submarine ones, even if he does not have his own hull. Two transport-combat helicopters that can be placed on board this frigate are quite suitable for solving problems of PLO. Two air defense systems of the RAM together with quite modern radars with HEADLIGHTS are also nothing or how and nothing like that, and if you happen to reflect the air raid they may well reflect it. And small arms cannons are also very solid. There are a couple of three RCC Harpoon, which can easily be replaced by a more modern one. And the last one. The German Navy is currently not an independent force, but only part of the large fleet of NATO and to solve all the tasks that, in principle, the big fleet needs to solve for him and to nothing.
    1. sd68
      sd68 21 January 2018 01: 43 New
      0
      He does not have Garpunov, and the range of X RAM is already 10 km, they’ll probably drown him with helicopters.
      With such a displacement and cost, he’s useless set of weapons, compare with F 124, for example
  7. sd68
    sd68 21 January 2018 01: 47 New
    0
    KaPToC,
    For this, the Americans have aircraft carriers, long-range supersonic anti-ship missiles based on the SM-6, and supersonic ultra-long range Lrasm and Tomahawk block 4.
    And everything in MK41
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 21 January 2018 14: 17 New
      0
      Quote: sd68
      long-range supersonic anti-ship missiles based on SM-6

      There is no such rocket yet. They screwed an anti-aircraft missile the ability to hit radio-contrast targets on the surface of the sea, in fact, updated the software. Low-flying capabilities, NNZ, the CM6 does not. Which does not mean that CM6 is not worth considering. At a minimum, it is capable at the right moment of loading the air defense control channels of the ship and facilitating the RCC task.
      1. sd68
        sd68 22 January 2018 00: 38 New
        0
        The 4,5 fly missile is a problem in itself, even without an ultra-low flight profile.
        although it’s clear that ersatz, but the States traditionally believe that tanks do not fight tanks (a joke wink ) aviation must fight large NKs, so RCCs do not pay so much attention, only now LRASM has appeared, before that only Harpoon actually.
  8. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 21 January 2018 17: 11 New
    +1
    Something in the article is not all well written. Well, the most incomprehensible thing is that a frigate without a GAS (sonar station) to search for a submarine, when its main task is to search for these submarines. Or the Germans at all. “Permanent roll of a ship 1,3 degrees to starboard” Well, take the ballast to the left side and carry it all your life, and rarely what kind of vessel sits on an even keel. There are a lot of bloopers. In general, the article was written by an unprepared person and it is immediately obvious that it is not water-floating. Generally, "The infantry a hundred miles passed and still hunting!"