Military Review

US rifles 416 NK, which are afraid of dust and frost

106



The question of replacing the individual weapons in the US Armed Forces has been quite acute since the 90s of the last century. According to the US military, assault rifles, created on the platform M-16 \ AR-15, no longer meet all the requirements of modern warfare, and the system itself has almost exhausted the possibilities of modernization.

NK 416 - in the American designation M27 Infantry Automatic Rifles (IAR)

It was announced several contests to replace the rifle, but they all ended in nothing. The latter, Interim Combat Service Rifle, was completed early this fall by the US Department of Defense.

And recently it became known that the Marine Corps (ILC) of the USA finally made a choice in favor of the favorite of the untimely completed program - the German rifle 416 (in the American designation М27 Infantry Automatic Rifles (IAR)). Recall that the US KMP is not subordinate to the Ministry of Defense, but directly to the President of the United States, and decides on weapons issues independently.

Be that as it may, the M27 rifle has successfully passed all tests under the ILC program, and in August last year, the US ILC announced its intention to purchase more than 50 units. The notice of intent indicated that 000 M50 Infantry Automatic Rifles (IAR) produced by the German company Heckler & Koch will be purchased for the Marines. And in early 814, it became known that the USMC officially announced the start of the rearmament process.

Note that Heckler & Koch has been fighting for the American arms market for a long time. At the end of the last century, this German company opened its American branch - Heckler & Koch Inc., which in January 1994 mastered the production of .45 (11,43-mm) Heckler & Koch USР.45 pistols ordered by the command of the US Special Operations Forces. ...

The American branch actively participated in all the competitions mentioned above. Actually, 416, which is now well known in the world and used by the security forces of several countries, owes its appearance to the efforts of German gunsmiths to establish themselves in the American market.

This insistence is understandable. Indeed, in addition to the fact that the American numerous armed forces themselves represent an extensive sales market, the United States is the leader of the Western world, and therefore American military standards almost automatically apply to countries in their sphere of influence. So Heckler & Koch with ILC weapons literally hit the jackpot.

Norwegian special forces complain of system failures at low temperatures

Initially, the HK416 rifle was positioned not as an independent weapon, but as a replacement tool for the M-16 family, which increased the reliability of the design. In it, unlike the basic design, instead of a gas tube, a rod is used, pushed by a piston with a short stroke (as in SVT). This rod, in turn, pushes the standard bolt.

It must be said that this construction is neither unique nor revolutionary. Options AR-15 with a short stroke of the piston were considered in the 60-s of the last century, but did not receive distribution.

Be that as it may, the NK 2005 went to the market in 416, not as a replaceable module, but as an independent carbine. Moreover, Heckler und Koch advertisers claim that the gunsmiths of the company were able in their offspring to combine accuracy and ergonomics of the M 4 and the reliability of the AK. However, if the first part of the statement is valid, then the reliability level of the NK 416, surpassing the M-16, does not fall short of not only the Kalashnikov machine gun, but also the FN FNC, FN SCAR, or Sig Sauer 550. In particular, Norwegian special forces complain about system failures at low temperatures. The reliability of NK 416 in comparison with М4 and in conditions of high dustiness has not increased too. So when conducted by American scientists in the 2007 test year at a test station in Maryland, the rifle gave the 233 a failure on the 6 thousand shots. Given that the ability of the device to conduct automatic fire has increased in comparison with the M4, failures during intensive shooting and overheating, it is not uncommon in this system.

To this we can add that the gunsmiths, trying to ease the construction as much as possible, according to experts, were too carried away with the use of aluminum alloys, which, of course, did not contribute to an increase in structural strength.

Resource rifle manufacturers have designated in 20 000 shots, which is two thousand more than the capabilities of the M4.

In other words, the NK416 is a good rifle, with improved, in comparison with the M4, characteristics, of which it is, in fact, another modernization. However, if we consider that the novelty is several times more expensive than its predecessor, the expediency of such a replacement is in doubt.

It is noteworthy that the Germans themselves are rearming the 433 NC - a cheaper and more efficient model.
There are very serious reasons to assume that the choice of the USCM leadership is not so much connected with the technical perfection of the creation of Heckler und Koch, but with effective, so to speak, product promotion.

How to promote NK 416

The marketing ploy, which looks like a scam, was as follows. The company handed over to American special forces from Delta, units of the Joint Special Operations Command, the antiterrorist group for conducting asymmetrical combat operations and sealed rifles for free, so that they maximize their promotion. Then, through lobbyists, they organized a discussion in parliament on the topic: “why the special forces are armed with the newest rifles with the best in the world, and the usual GIs are forced to fight the outdated M-4”. But since the “marketers” failed to properly interest the officials from the Pentagon’s weapons department (they were probably greedy), the program of the Ministry of Defense, possibly “sharpened” under this rifle, was discontinued. But in the Marine Corps Heckler und Koch has achieved success.
Author:
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https://vpk-news.ru/articles/40763
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  1. 32363
    32363 20 January 2018 15: 09
    +2
    All the same, the symbiosis of Schmeiser and Kalashnikov still rules today (the AK family) after Schmeiser was sent home, M. Kalashnikov could not come up with anything else to remember.
    1. Beltasir matyagu
      Beltasir matyagu 20 January 2018 15: 44
      51
      And why Schmeissers and the like, returning to their homeland could not come up with anything more memorable? Maybe because all your argumentation of non-worshipers about the mediocrity of Russian engineers, who by the way invented half of the iconic technologies in the world, isn’t worth a damn and a penny?
      1. Strashila
        Strashila 20 January 2018 16: 34
        +3
        There is a confusion that the Germans were attracted as technologists in production ... Schmeister was a technologist ... developed a technology for the production of stores for automatic machines using stamping, received a patent for it ..., which was exactly what his last name was .. from here and all the confusion with the name of the German machine guns MP38 and MP40, MP41
        1. Strashila
          Strashila 20 January 2018 16: 41
          11
          And that once Schmeister ... grandfather Fedorov everyone forgot.
        2. John22
          John22 20 January 2018 18: 03
          +1
          Hugo Schmeiser was the designer of the first German PP PP MR 18/1 entered the army in 1918. By analogy, the rest of the German software was called Schmeisers. As by analogy, many compact pistols were called Browning.
          1. Strashila
            Strashila 20 January 2018 19: 52
            +4
            they were called Schmeister, because of the stamp with his last name in stores made according to his patent.
      2. 32363
        32363 20 January 2018 16: 48
        +1
        Quote: Beltasir Matyagu
        And why Schmeissers and the like, returning to their homeland could not come up with anything more memorable? Maybe because all your argumentation of non-worshipers about the mediocrity of Russian engineers, who by the way invented half of the iconic technologies in the world, isn’t worth a damn and a penny?

        Yes, because they were forbidden to do this, Messerschmitt, for example, began to produce sewing machines after the ban engaged in aircraft. I have never talked about the mediocrity of Russian engineers in my life, on the contrary, I am for the joint work of Russians and Germans, only then you get masterpieces, an example of AK, I've been living and working in Germany for more than 20 years, I see how Germans do everything too tricky, not enough it is the Russian simplified approach, which is not in the Germans))) I say as it is without humiliation or exaltation of someone else.

        and I consider HK21 to be a good post-war sample
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 20 January 2018 19: 05
          +9
          Quote: 32363
          I am for the joint work of Russian and Germans, only then masterpieces are obtained, an example of AK

          Now it’s not a problem to find information about German designers in Russia after the war. Schmeiser has nothing to do with a Kalashnikov assault rifle. His presence in our design bureau remained a memory of both the complainant and the bogus. Of inventions is a minuscule, and those (if I remember correctly) according to the production technique, and not according to the design of something.
        2. Alf
          Alf 22 January 2018 00: 16
          +4
          Quote: 32363
          Yes, because they were forbidden to do this,

          In the bastards, these someone, such great designers hacked.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. aws4
      aws4 20 January 2018 15: 47
      14
      you always wishful thinking ... I asked you how many races to give references and evidence, or at least point out the Kalashnikov’s interior to which you referred and you always deftly disappeared ... your resourcefulness is commendable unlike you ... Dear expert, I respect the German genius and I know that the Germans are very talented, but there is no trace of either Schmeiser or any other German designer in AK development ... if you say something, you are so kind to put out the facts and not just an empty idle talk that you have been doing for the past many months on this site .... and so for reference Mikhail Kalashnikov after he created one of the best machine guns in the world ...
      1. 32363
        32363 20 January 2018 16: 09
        0
        Quote: aws4
        you always wishful thinking ... I asked you how many races to give references and evidence, or at least point out the Kalashnikov’s interior to which you referred and you always deftly disappeared ... your resourcefulness is commendable unlike you ... Dear expert, I respect the German genius and I know that the Germans are very talented, but there is no trace of either Schmeiser or any other German designer in AK development ... if you say something, you are so kind to put out the facts and not just an empty idle talk that you have been doing for the past many months on this site .... and so for reference Mikhail Kalashnikov after he created one of the best machine guns in the world ...

        I already answered you, I can’t find it, it’s obvious that Mikhail Timofeyevich gave you a confession that was not convenient for you, they wiped it off, I saw it personally, I didn’t miss a single broadcast about Kalashnikov.
        and I also remember the speech of Zhirik from the rostrum of the Duma in 2010 that an influx of 60 million migrants to Europe is expected soon, I also thought that the cap of the Zhirik had flowed specifically, but being a talker he just voiced some info, and he does it regularly, because of this his "forecasts" are often forgotten))) right now I’m looking for this video and can’t find it.
        1. aws4
          aws4 20 January 2018 16: 41
          +8
          here you promised me then too and I rummaged through the whole net by my naivety but I didn’t find anything and you hid as always, or rather merged ... I will repeat again - the Germans are a very talented and inventive nation, humanity owes a lot to this the truth is to the genius people but you shouldn’t lie and stick to one where the Germans didn’t even smell ... alas, the best infantry weapon of the 20th century was created by the Russian designer .. many articles were written on this topic and by the way there was an article where even Sharikov was chewed and both samples were examined in detail .. but people like you didn’t calm down even after that and came up with another story about how Schmasser helped the young Russian guy create AK ...
        2. Alf
          Alf 22 January 2018 00: 17
          +3
          Quote: 32363
          and I also remember the speech of Zhirik from the rostrum of the Duma in 2010 that an influx of 60 million migrants to Europe is expected soon, I also thought that the cap of the Zhirik had flowed specifically, but being a talker he just voiced some info, and he does it regularly, because of this his "forecasts" are often forgotten))) right now I’m looking for this video and can’t find it.

          And where does Zhirik and your illiteracy?
        3. philosopher
          philosopher 22 January 2018 20: 07
          +1
          Now are TV transmissions the standard of information? Do you know that you can snatch phrases out of context, what do magazine magazines use widely and incessantly, in order to get the completely opposite meaning?
          But I’ve read the conclusions of many experts and I can single out a single line, according to which the AK-46 and MP-43 are less common than between the MP-43 and the SCS.
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 22 January 2018 00: 53
        +1
        Kalashnikov received all the development of Sudaev, who died shortly after the war.
        There was a reworked Sudaev Stug Schmeiser. Kalashnikov changed the shutter, taking the American Garand as a model. And received as a result of this symbiosis a good product. To bring the technology to industrial production was "invited" from Germany by the Schmeiser bureau.
        1. aws4
          aws4 22 January 2018 02: 07
          +3
          25 again ... you know I always enjoy reading your comas without jokes, I consider you a thinking person with my own experience ... but in this matter, where did you get such information ??? please provide evidence to your words
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 22 January 2018 15: 29
            +1
            I read recently. I myself was surprised by this info,
            but she puts everything in its place. StG 44 was a breakthrough
            product and interested in all Soviet designers.
            (No Americans. They had a different concept: single target shooting).
            But the Germans put StG on stream in a military rush, and there were
            many flaws - there was something to improve. Sudaev - a recognized talent - managed to be the first.
            But he died early. Kalashnikov received the documentation and samples of his design bureau.
            Kalashnikov also had many other foreign samples. Including
            Garanda automatic rifle with all the drawings received officially.
            Kalashnikov was not a genius, the sensible gunsmith was undoubtedly. He combined the best from Sudaevsky prototype and from Garand. When it came to production, I had to
            invite professionals: KB Schmeiser in full force. They settled
            technology for the production of parts and departed back to Germany.
            Remodeling and upgrading weapons developed by others is common practice.
            This is not a theft, nor a sign of weakness.
            The output was a great product - AKM good
            1. aws4
              aws4 22 January 2018 17: 00
              0
              well, an interesting version ... already at least it has a grain of reason, in contrast to tales about the fact that Schmeiser was standing over the boy Misha who was his apprentice and chided his half-educated
            2. philosopher
              philosopher 22 January 2018 20: 45
              +3
              Did you get this "info" from the whole from somewhere or is there a share of your speculation? You are welcome - a link to the source.
              Now, attention, all of a sudden: AKM appeared after the departure of German technologists, moreover, much later than the death of Schmeiser in his homeland. The main stage of "polishing" was carried out between the appearance of the AK-46 and AK-47, it was then that the Kalashnikov assault rifle got its almost unchanged look. However, Hugo Schmeiser himself did not take part in the refinement of the AK-46 to the AK-47. His task was to refine production technologies in general at another enterprise.
            3. synthwave
              synthwave 22 January 2018 20: 57
              +1
              no Americans. they had a different concept: single target shooting
              And that's why they went to war with Thompson machine guns, M3 machine guns and monsters like Browning M1918 ...
              You can not read further. Manyafantasy, as well as programs about aliens on RenTV. The level is the same. Below I added why.
            4. abc_alex
              abc_alex 23 January 2018 00: 59
              +2
              no Americans. they had a different concept: single target shooting


              Maybe I will surprise you, but the AK-47 is an automatic weapon for shooting single. Kalashnikov himself repeatedly said this when he was reproached for the low accuracy of automatic firing, the automatic firing mode was needed only to create a high density of fire. The Americans didn’t like the idea. intermediate cartridge, she is now sick of them, they have cartridges with rifle energy.
              the Germans put StG on stream in a military rush, and there were

              PPS and KPVT were also developed during the war, does this change anything?

              When it came to production, I had to invite professionals: KB Schmeiser in full force.

              Yes? But what, was Soviet production lacking the experience of mass production of SVT, PPSh, PPS (especially) and machine guns during the war? :) Especially the one that Schmeisser could convey? For the entire war period, 420000-440000 MP 43, MP 44 and StG 44 were produced (Schmeisser did not give other samples to the Wehrmacht). While in the USSR for about the same period, 1,6 million SVT-40 rifles, 6 million PPSh, and 2 million PPS were produced. Moreover, the latter was generally a miracle of technology.
              It is well known that the main contribution of the Germans to the production of AK-47 was the use of "cold forging" or, more simply, stamping products. But here's the hitch: in the production of Haenel, which Schmeisser directed, the process of stamping parts for the StG 44 was not used. The stamped parts for these plants came from the Merz-Werke factory in Frankfurt.
              But who really had the Germans special in the stamping process was Werner Ernst Gruner (Grossfuss, Fa. Joh. Großfuß, Blech- und Lackierwarenfabrik) - the designer of the design and production technology of MG-42. So he just transferred to the USSR his own experience of the stamping process. And not Schmeisser, who was a weapons developer, not a technologist, and most likely there were no cold forging specialists in his design bureau either.

              It is obvious that Schmeisser and his design office in Izhevsk could hardly directly influence the design of Kalashnikov, who lived in Kovrov, it is also obvious that the Germans brought the experience of serial production using stamping to Izhevsk. But how much this experience was innovative and inaccessible to the USSR is a question. After all, the same PPP being stamped required for its 3 kg of metal parts a little more than 5,5 kg of steel, while the MP-40 for its 4 kilos - more than 10 kg.


              And why, when listing the “prototypes” for the AK-47, did you so carefully strike out Soviet weapons? Yes, Garand, yes Sturmgever, but isn't it ABC? Not SVT? Not an AB-46?
              1. synthwave
                synthwave 23 January 2018 02: 00
                +1
                Quote: abc_alex
                Maybe I will surprise you, but the AK-47 is an automatic weapon for shooting single. Kalashnikov himself repeatedly said this when he was reproached for the low accuracy of automatic firing, the automatic firing mode was needed only to create a high density of fire. The Americans didn’t like the idea. intermediate cartridge, she is now sick of them, they have cartridges with rifle energy.


                I'm sorry, but it's far-fetched. For weapons is intended for single shooting (rifles from Mosinki to SVD) and weapons that shows much better results in accuracy, when shooting single (any assault rifle from AK to 416) are two different things. And Kalashnikov spoke precisely of this, if he did. Like you want accuracy, there is a single firing mode, but you want to mow grass when shooting at close range, switch to automatic. As for the intermediate cartridge, they liked it or not, but they came to it, starting from 7,62 × 51 and reaching 5,56 × 45. For it was clear from the 40s, if you want to shoot with a machine gun at 400 meters, you need a gap. A kind of middle ground. And any bias in the direction of rifle cartridges, or pistol rounds, together with pluses of properties, adds their minuses.
                1. Alf
                  Alf 23 January 2018 21: 34
                  0
                  Quote: synthwave
                  For it was clear from the 40s, if you want to shoot with a machine gun at 400 meters, you need a gap.

                  Then, however, it turned out that none of the machine gun at 400 meters did not shoot and was not going to.
                  1. synthwave
                    synthwave 23 January 2018 21: 37
                    0
                    Well, that's another question. For a single fire, this is a real distance. But if you look at the vidos from Donbass, or Syria, everyone simply thrashes with bursts in the direction of the enemy, not particularly aiming, and only snipers with optics aim individual carcasses.
                2. abc_alex
                  abc_alex 24 January 2018 22: 55
                  +1
                  Like you want accuracy, there is a single firing mode, but you want to mow grass when shooting at close range, switch to automatic.


                  ??? In other words, you repeated my thought. To hit the enemy - shoot solo, automatic fire to fire to suppress.

                  As for the intermediate cartridge, they liked it or not, but they came to it, starting from 7,62 × 51 and reaching 5,56 × 45.


                  Is 5,56 × 45 exactly an intermediate cartridge? Not a small-bore rifle?
                  1. synthwave
                    synthwave 24 January 2018 23: 11
                    0
                    ??? In other words, you repeated my thought. To hit the enemy - shoot solo, automatic fire to fire to suppress.

                    Your thought was that "AK-47 is an automatic weapon for firing single." You wanted to surprise me with this. I did not ask you, "what for then there is an automatic fire mode" and painted as it really is. AK is NOT a single-shot weapon. If you play sniper, put a single fire. And so, 90 percent of the time is thrashing the enemy’s side with a burst, especially without aiming. This is a universal weapon.

                    Is 5,56 × 45 exactly an intermediate cartridge? Not a small-bore rifle?
                    5,56 × 45 mm NATO - low pulse intermediate cartridge with a flangeless bottle sleeve, adopted by NATO countries in the 1980s. Based on .223 Remington cartridge.
                    Wikipedia The first link in google ...
                    1. abc_alex
                      abc_alex 26 January 2018 19: 26
                      0
                      I did not ask you, "what for then there is an automatic fire mode" and painted as it really is.


                      Well, that’s why I don’t ask you why automatic weapons have a single shooting mode. :) And I just agree that if you need to get out of the AK - they shoot single (or in extreme cases with short 2-3 rounds of rounds.), And automatic fire is needed to create high density, or as you wrote "shooting in side of the enemy without aiming. " What are we arguing about?

                      5,56 × 45 mm NATO is a low-pulse intermediate cartridge with a bottleless sleeve ...
                      Wikipedia The first link in google ...


                      But you never know what Wikipedia says. You are not surprised why the M-16 is a rifle, and the AK-47 is a carbine? Maybe because the 7N6 cartridge gives pressure in the barrel up to 294,2 MPa, and the NATO cartridge up to 358,5 MPa? :)
                      Or because the energy of the bullet in our cartridge is 1143 J, and in your 1560? That is, to put it simply, the NATO cartridge is not intermediate, but a rifle cartridge, albeit small-caliber :)
                      I must say right away that the M-4 example is not relevant; on the basis of a rifle cartridge, you can make a carbine without problems.
                      1. synthwave
                        synthwave 26 January 2018 19: 55
                        0
                        Well, that’s why I don’t ask you why automatic weapons have a single shooting mode.
                        You can ask and I will answer you. Initially, it was planned that for aimed shooting, but in practice it turned out that to save ammunition.

                        What are we arguing about?
                        That AK is NOT single-shot weapons.

                        But you never know what Wikipedia says.
                        Give another source that refutes Wikipedia and I agree with you.

                        and the AK-47 is a carbine?
                        Read what a carbine is. In general, ANYWHERE, never and no one wrote that Kalashmat is a carbine. You are probably the first. And AK and AR, this is one class of assault rifles. It's just that in the states they are called automatic rifles, or just rifles, and we have automatic rifles.

                        Maybe because the 7N6 cartridge gives pressure in the barrel up to 294,2 MPa, and the NATO cartridge up to 358,5 MPa?
                        Not only the pressure in the barrel determines the type of ammunition.

                        Or because the energy of the bullet in our cartridge is 1143 J, and in your 1560?
                        CM. higher.

                        That is, to put it simply, the NATO cartridge is not intermediate, but a rifle cartridge, albeit small-caliber :)
                        LOL small-bore rifle, this is an intermediate, because he is less powerful than the same rifle, but more powerful than a pistol.

                        I must say right away that the M-4 example is not relevant; on the basis of a rifle cartridge, you can make a carbine without problems.
                        A carbine is simply a rifle with a short barrel (not automatic). It does not depend on cartridges.

                        You know, I'm not particularly in the shooter, but you, in my opinion, live in your own special world, no offense ...
            5. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 24 January 2018 14: 30
              0
              Quote: voyaka uh
              Kalashnikov received the documentation and samples of his design bureau.
              Kalashnikov also had many other foreign samples. Including
              Garanda automatic rifle with all the drawings received officially.

              Kalashnikov was just lucky with the place of work. At the Small Arms Research Area there were samples, drawings, and most importantly, the test results of all the rifle models made in the USSR or received from abroad, up to the limited-edition exotic. It was possible to evaluate the viability or suitability for operation in real conditions of almost all weapon circuits and components using the example of already tested analogues.
              In addition, having the weapons test program in hand, one could immediately say which nodes and which working conditions should be paid special attention to.
              By the way, before MTK, there was already one designer among the NIPSVO employees, who immediately became widely known for their software. According to the test results, the IChP seems to have won a completely different model, the work of a well-known designer - but they adopted the model of the NIPSVO employee.
            6. Mihail28
              Mihail28 April 28 2018 22: 32
              0
              If everything was as you described, then Schmeiser should not have been released home to Germany, but shot, like a saboteur.
              We managed to master the stamping of the receiver years after the "adjustment of the Schmeiser technology and departure back to Germany."
              So I had to mill these boxes at AK. And only in AKM did the receiver get stamped.
              In what year did Schmeiser return to Germany? AKM was adopted in 1959. This is the machine in which the receiver has become stamped.
        2. synthwave
          synthwave 22 January 2018 06: 41
          +7
          Kalashnikov received all the development of Sudaev, who died shortly after the war.
          Where, when and from whom did he receive? Or was it all in your mani-fantasies? If you are about the AS-44, then its development stopped immediately after the death of Sudaev in 1946, and in the same year Kalashnikov already submitted his sample.
          There was a reworked Sudaev Stug Schmeiser.
          Yes, yes, “redone” and precisely “Schmeiser stack” (StG 44, I think so). Only work on the AC-44 began before the appearance of the StG 44. And they were inspired by the captured MKb.42 (W) carbines. And so, when creating a new ALWAYS rely on the old.
          Kalashnikov changed the shutter, taking the American Garand as a model.
          What are you doing? And why exactly the "guarantor"? Due to the rotary shutter? And why, for example, not a Lewis machine gun? There, too, such a shutter and it appeared earlier .... And the M16 was licked from the Kalash, right? No, but what? There is also a butterfly valve and it appeared later than Kalash ....
          To bring the technology to industrial production was "invited" from Germany by the Schmeiser bureau.
          Before Schmasser, millions of firearms were fired, and the defeated German was called to launch Kalash ... Etozh plasmagan is practically, in comparison with PPSh (no).

          I love the warrior ... the local igzpert for everything and nothing, soaring in his own mania laughing . But what about how you galilized your drinking water licking him from Kalashmat did not write wink ?
          1. bunta
            bunta 22 January 2018 22: 18
            +3
            Quote: synthwave
            I love warrior ..

            Very thin troll. It seems that everything with this Schmeisser is clear and chewed and given on the documents. No, one damn thing ... he wants to stick somewhere that is not particularly controversial, but petty and nasty.

            And the role of Sudaev in the formation of MTK as a Master is undeniable. They worked for neighboring Kuhlmanns when Sudaev worked on the AU, and Kalashnikov on a carbine.
    4. Droid
      Droid 20 January 2018 15: 49
      12
      Still, the Internet is full of ignoramuses ...
      1. The ignoramus is not aware that Kalashnikov was making his machine gun 700 kilometers from Schmeiser.
      2. Also ignoramuses are not up to date about the PC family, not to mention AKM, RPK, AK74. Therefore, they carry all nonsense, because there is nothing more memorable except AK.
      1. aws4
        aws4 20 January 2018 15: 57
        +2
        no, no, on the PC account, you're right, I also mentioned this, but AKM, RPK, etc. are already AK development, so let's be honest and not be like the first commenter .... the fact remains, Mikhail Timofeevich created two great systems - AK and PC ..
      2. 32363
        32363 20 January 2018 16: 02
        0
        Quote: Droid
        1. The ignoramus is not aware that Kalashnikov was making his machine gun 700 kilometers from Schmeiser.

        Mikhail Kalashnikov himself shortly before his death in one of the programs admitted that the Germans helped him and it was Schmeiser.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. 32363
            32363 20 January 2018 16: 14
            0
            Quote: aws4
            SO I ALREADY 10 RACE ASKED FOR YOU AT LEAST A LITTLE TO SHOW FROM THIS TRANSMISSION AND YOU ALWAYS WILL BE DISAPPOINTED AND LOST .... LET'S LIKE NOW TO RESPOND FOR YOUR WORDS

            do not temperature, exhale, swallow aspirin. drinks
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Razvedka_Boem
          Razvedka_Boem 20 January 2018 16: 08
          11
          Mikhail Kalashnikov himself shortly before his death in one of the programs admitted that the Germans helped him and it was Schmeiser.

          Link please.
        4. avt
          avt 20 January 2018 16: 19
          22
          Quote: 32363
          Mikhail Kalashnikov himself shortly before his death in one of the programs admitted that the Germans helped him and it was Schmeiser.

          Yes, you darling is not even a Troll, just a scoundrel, arrogantly marauding the name of the great Armsman. But this is understandable - dullness is always envious to anger and is ready to give out its glitches for the facts, or even just blatantly lie.
          1. Train
            Train 20 January 2018 17: 21
            0
            Well, maybe they could help, what's wrong with that? Schmeisser and not only he worked for us. Maybe he advised. I don’t understand that there are so many screams about this? Our Germans first copied their engines from the Germans, they took them as a basis, and they bought an engine from the British and then on based on them, we created our own, do not shout something about scoundrels? Kalashnikov himself in an interview, he saw himself said: the designer of the machine is not only me, this is the work of thousands of people, specialists
        5. _Ugene_
          _Ugene_ 20 January 2018 17: 06
          +5
          Mikhail Kalashnikov himself shortly before his death in one of the programs admitted that the Germans helped him and it was Schmeiser.

          in floods, there was no such, therefore, there will be no link, even search
        6. sibiryouk
          sibiryouk 20 January 2018 18: 07
          +1
          And according to the book by Malimon-Kalashnikov, the constructions of Bulkin and Sudaev helped, focusing on them Kalashnikov and brought his machine gun to victory in the competition in 1947
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 22 January 2018 01: 00
            +1
            Correctly. It was from the drawings of Sudayev that Kalashnikov took the alteration of the Schmeiser automatic machine. Sudaev did all the work. But Kalashnikov took the bolt from the Garand rifle. The Americans gave all her drawings in order of help.
            In general, Kalashnikov correctly combined the two products.
            1. philosopher
              philosopher 22 January 2018 21: 13
              +3
              Not true, you at least repeat. Grand M1 there is generally no side, Kalashnikov worked off the rotary bolt on his carbine, and in general, the idea of ​​a bolt with rotation grows from the same place where the M1 comes from store rifles.
        7. abc_alex
          abc_alex 24 January 2018 23: 22
          0
          Which of the Germans and what helped? And how much help? Didn't Mikhail Kalashnikov tell you about this in detail?

          Or maybe someone at the same time told you about help from people like Fierce or Deykin? :)
      3. andrewkor
        andrewkor 20 January 2018 16: 30
        +3
        So tired of the grater between the Xperts, very much like a provocation!
    5. avt
      avt 20 January 2018 16: 16
      14
      Quote: 32363
      All the same, the symbiosis of Schmeiser and Kalashnikov still rules (AK family)

      I like these co-hackers stubborn in their “knowledge”, even despite the details of the epic, “massaging” of Kalashnikov and more than once right here on the site. But to the co-workers, and even to the frank .... navalnyars, know-all real archival documents are not a decree, know yourself they are fulfilling an artistic whistle. Truly, the wisdom of the people is great - ,, To teach fools is only to spoil "
      1. 32363
        32363 20 January 2018 16: 27
        0
        Quote: avt
        Quote: 32363
        All the same, the symbiosis of Schmeiser and Kalashnikov still rules (AK family)

        I like these co-hackers stubborn in their “knowledge”, even despite the details of the epic, “massaging” of Kalashnikov and more than once right here on the site. But to the co-workers, and even to the frank .... navalnyars, know-all real archival documents are not a decree, know yourself they are fulfilling an artistic whistle. Truly, the wisdom of the people is great - ,, To teach fools is only to spoil "

        laughing Vaughn PM is an obvious copy of Walter PPK and everyone lives with it calmly, and the fact that the locking scheme of the STG and AK is different is so logical, because the Germans themselves recognized it as unsuccessful, so why copy the unsuccessful scheme?
        1. avt
          avt 20 January 2018 16: 31
          +8
          Quote: 32363
          Vaughn PM is an obvious copy of Walter PPK and everyone lives with it calmly,

          Well, “DB” according to Lavrov is generally calm in their tenacity. Again, this is for people who are looking for knowledge of PY here on the site, as well as TT in comparison with Browning, have already been dismantled by cog. BUT
          Quote: avt
          ,, To teach fools - only to spoil "
        2. aws4
          aws4 20 January 2018 16: 32
          +2
          But does anyone deny that PM is a recycled walther ???????????
        3. sibiryouk
          sibiryouk 20 January 2018 18: 20
          +4
          PM and PPC are only externally similar, and when disassembling, obvious differences are observed between the barrel and the trigger, and the PM fuse is different. But for PROFAN, all is one PECAL!
        4. Alf
          Alf 22 January 2018 00: 20
          +1
          Quote: 32363
          Vaughn PM is an obvious copy of Walter PPK and everyone lives with it calmly, and the fact that the locking scheme of the STG and AK is different is so logical, because the Germans themselves recognized it as unsuccessful, so why copy the unsuccessful scheme?

          And what is common between AK and MP?
          1. philosopher
            philosopher 22 January 2018 21: 18
            0
            Appearance (meters from 500 at dusk) and tactics of application.
            Actually, among all the current pistols you can find more in common. There are one way or another three different ancestors. Too lazy to dig, I would have listed it from memory.
            1. Alf
              Alf 22 January 2018 22: 32
              +1
              Quote: philosopher
              Appearance (meters from 500 at dusk) and tactics of application.
              Actually, among all the current pistols you can find more in common. There are one way or another three different ancestors. Too lazy to dig, I would have listed it from memory.

              Actually, I’m kidding about such "experts."
              1. philosopher
                philosopher 22 January 2018 22: 44
                +1
                So I am with irony ...
                1. Alf
                  Alf 23 January 2018 21: 30
                  +1
                  Quote: philosopher
                  So I am with irony ...

                  hi
    6. Observer2014
      Observer2014 20 January 2018 17: 00
      +6
      32363
      All the same, the symbiosis of Schmeiser and Kalashnikov still rules today (the AK family) after Schmeiser was sent home, M. Kalashnikov could not come up with anything else to remember
      What?. Not enough for the holidays? am
    7. Alf
      Alf 22 January 2018 00: 14
      0
      Quote: 32363
      All the same, the symbiosis of Schmeiser and Kalashnikov still rules today (the AK family) after Schmeiser was sent home, M. Kalashnikov could not come up with anything else to remember.

      Not tired of arguing? Any more or less versed techie will say that.
    8. Siberian_54
      Siberian_54 18 May 2019 12: 50
      0
      "Kalashnikov assault rifle" was created by engineers of the Kovrov plant Alexander Zaitsev and Vladimir Soloviev. They created it on the basis of the AB-46 project (Bulkin's assault rifle) and a list of 18 comments from the head of the shooting range, Colonel Lyuty, who was himself a designer, but could not participate in the competition. Sergeant Kalashnikov, with seven grades of education, not only did not know the basics of weapons design, because he did not have an engineering education, but did not even know engineering graphics to create drawings. His role was "Fierce's adjutant" to carry papers back and forth. The machine was originally planned to be called "the Zaitsev-Kalashnikov assault rifle". And Hugo Schmeiser had nothing to do with this project at all. He worked in Izhevsk, and the AK assault rifle was created in Kovrov. Only later, in 1947, mass production was assigned to Izhevsk, when the project had already been adopted. Kalashnikov also moved there. If you want to bring foreigners here, then it is more appropriate to remember that the AK bolt resembles the bolt of the Garand rifle. At the same time, the AB-46 prototype had a bolt similar to the Lewis machine gun.
  2. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 20 January 2018 16: 10
    0
    With G36, too, an incomprehensible story .. An excellent rifle, but as a result of intrigue she was buried ..
    1. Strashila
      Strashila 20 January 2018 16: 21
      +4
      She was buried after the Germans used it in real combat conditions in Afghanistan ... a drop in accuracy with heavy use and jamming ... so the parade and shooting in films is one thing, but the war is completely different.
      1. Razvedka_Boem
        Razvedka_Boem 20 January 2018 16: 25
        +6
        drop in accuracy during heavy use and jamming

        What is intense shooting?
        In relation to the G36, Nete writes - "a drop in accuracy after CONTINUOUS firing of 150 rounds, that is, 5 stores in a row, without a pause.
        Any weapon after this will suffer a drop in accuracy.
        1. Strashila
          Strashila 20 January 2018 16: 39
          +1
          Explain this to the Bundeswehr soldiers ... how to shoot correctly ... that means the manufacturer gave such guarantees for his weapons and they did not materialize.
        2. 32363
          32363 20 January 2018 17: 11
          +1
          Quote: Razvedka_Boem
          drop in accuracy during heavy use and jamming

          What is intense shooting?
          In relation to the G36, Nete writes - "a drop in accuracy after CONTINUOUS firing of 150 rounds, that is, 5 stores in a row, without a pause.
          Any weapon after this will suffer a drop in accuracy.

          +5, physics is the same for everyone, after heating the metal to only 20 degrees, the thermal expansion of the material begins.
        3. Droid
          Droid 20 January 2018 17: 12
          10
          AK74, for example, normally fires 150 rounds of ammunition with continuous fire without harming itself. And the Germans managed to penetrate the barrel directly into the plastic, of course, that after intensive firing, the plastic from heating leads along with the barrel.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 20 January 2018 17: 37
            +8
            Quote: Droid
            AK74 for example normally fires 150 rounds of continuous

            Maybe this is due to the fact that the "poor accuracy" in the understanding of the Germans and "normally shoots" in the case of AK - this is about the same thing?
            1. 32363
              32363 20 January 2018 20: 43
              0
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              Quote: Droid
              AK74 for example normally fires 150 rounds of continuous

              Maybe this is due to the fact that the "poor accuracy" in the understanding of the Germans and "normally shoots" in the case of AK - this is about the same thing?

              uniquely
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 20 January 2018 21: 08
                +2
                And what does shooting for failure have to do with accuracy?
            2. Droid
              Droid 20 January 2018 21: 26
              0
              This is due to the fact that we did not think of plugging the barrel directly into plastic, unlike the Germans. Have you looked at the photo?
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 20 January 2018 21: 40
                +1
                Quote: Droid
                Have you looked at the photo?

                Quite. And what do you think is depicted on it? Regarding what does the barrel “lead”?
                1. Droid
                  Droid 21 January 2018 17: 20
                  +2
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  And what do you think is depicted on it?

                  The barrel on it is shown, from the chamber side, in a plastic receiver.
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  Regarding what does the barrel “lead”?

                  Regarding the receiver. If you are not in the know, then I inform you that when heated, the plastic softens, and the chamber is the most intensively heated part of the weapon.
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 21 January 2018 17: 37
                    0
                    Quote: Droid
                    Regarding the receiver

                    And what is the tragedy?
                    1. Droid
                      Droid 22 January 2018 15: 13
                      +1
                      Quote: Cherry Nine
                      And what is the tragedy?

                      Are you seriously? Do not understand what the tragedy is, when the barrel sways in the receiver and moves from each shot to any side? Indeed, what a tragedy it may be that the sight looks in one direction, and the barrel is generally unknown in which direction, and with each new shot in a different direction.
    2. avt
      avt 20 January 2018 16: 51
      0
      Quote: Razvedka_Boem
      With G36, too, an incomprehensible story ..

      To whom, but not to the Germans who are
      Quote: Razvedka_Boem
      Great rifle

      drove through the fighting in Afghanistan. Actually, if the memory serves, the described unit Hekler with Koch was made for the US competition for specialists following the results of the same Afghanistan.
  3. andrewkor
    andrewkor 20 January 2018 16: 25
    0
    With all the advantages and disadvantages of this gadget, an important question arises regarding the mobility reserve for military operations. The KMP differs from other formations of the US Armed Forces by the very high intensity of participation in conflicts around the world. For example, in Russia there are 7 million AK-74 in warehouses!
  4. Operator
    Operator 20 January 2018 16: 40
    +2
    The NK416 automatic carbine / rifle (depending on the length of the interchangeable barrel) is a quite decent small weapon, surpassing the AK-74 in terms of resource, slaughter and accuracy, and inferior to it in reliability.

    The layout solution NK416 (apper / hupper, coaxial barrel and butt \) is based on the Eugene Stoner AR and is superior to the layout solution AK (open top receiver, shifted down butt). As a result, it is impossible to correctly install modern optical devices on the AK (collimator, holographic sight, optical sight of variable magnification).

    The only advantage of AK (increased reliability) is achieved in a purely collective-farm way - by accelerating the rollback of the bolt to the "cosmic" speed, sweeping away all the impurities in its path, but guaranteed to shoot down the sight when firing in bursts.

    Nevertheless, the GRAU of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation still continues to consider reliability (and not lethality) the main quality of any weapon - like the club’s most ideal infantry weapon (it won’t let you down in any dusty environment) laughing

    At one time, US Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara simply dispersed the American analogue of the GRAU, which prevented the transition to low-pulse cartridges.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. aws4
      aws4 20 January 2018 16: 58
      +4
      Do not go to extremes at the expense of a club ... everyone knows about the shortcomings of AK and everyone understands that it needs to be changed ... just do not forget when and for which army it was created, this is a massive weapon for a huge army of poorly trained sroniks ... yes now the AK is hopelessly outdated, but programs and articles are written that the AK is recognized as the best infantry weapon of the 20th century ... but we now live in 21 and many of our patriots are stubborn and commanders are stuck in 60-70 years.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 23 January 2018 00: 38
        +1
        AK was the "king" in the 60-70s, it began to be squeezed in the 80s, and began to become obsolete in the 90s, when optics appeared on the infantry’s personal weapons.
        1. aws4
          aws4 23 January 2018 04: 36
          0
          here I agree with you ...
        2. synthwave
          synthwave 23 January 2018 04: 42
          +2
          Lol, how is optics related to the basic design? A good barrel with optics will just get better. AK as it was the golden mean for the army rifleman, so it remained. Only in the 21st century they added whistle-blowers (AK-12) to match it. It is in this form in the world and in a hundred years will be popular, until the appearance of fundamentally new imb (some kind of plasmagans). Same thing with western AR-shaped rifles. NOTHING in the shooter mass fundamentally new the design has not appeared since the 50s. Gloss on the old trunks only suggest, all sorts of ergonomic handles, piccatini strips and collimators.
          1. Romulus
            Romulus 23 January 2018 04: 54
            0
            Quote: synthwave
            until the appearance of fundamentally new imb (some kind of plasmagans). Same thing with western AR-shaped rifles.

            good Better not tell.
    3. Droid
      Droid 20 January 2018 17: 15
      +3
      AK74 on the effectiveness of firing in short bursts - the main type of machine gun fire, does any regular foreign standard.
    4. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 20 January 2018 17: 40
      +1
      Quote: Operator
      GRAU MO RF still continues to consider reliability

      There is a specialist opinion
    5. John22
      John22 20 January 2018 18: 29
      +5
      Let me add: The main advantage of the AK is that the bolt frame with the bolt is located at the top of the receiver and moves it on narrow flanges with minimal friction. All the dirt falls to the bottom of the receiver and falls into all the cracks. The skok ARok has a cylindrical (tubular if you want) receiver and a bolt frame of the same cylindrical shape (piston in the cylinder), and "exhaust gases" are also sent there. What can be expected? Jams from pollution. For this, a rammer is added (to at least close the shutter).
  5. spech
    spech 20 January 2018 16: 54
    0
    Recall that the U.S. CLC does not report to the Department of Defense, but directly to the U.S. president, and decides on weapons issues independently.

    And how much squealing was when the Russian Guard was reassigned.
  6. ul_vitalii
    ul_vitalii 20 January 2018 18: 02
    +6
    Quote: aws4
    LET THAT SOMETHING A REFERENCE ARE AT LEAST A PASSAGE WHERE ??????????????????????????????????? ??????
    ?????????????????

    On TV "Zvezda" there was a program "Not a Fact" about the Kalashnikov assault rifle and the designer himself, many nodes and technical solutions of these assault rifles were examined and compared. So from the program it followed that the machines were different, but the possibility of participating in the development of his alleged leader (as a graduate) flashed through it.
    1. bunta
      bunta 20 January 2018 20: 05
      11
      Quote: ul_vitalii
      On the TV "Star" was a broadcast of "Not a Fact"

      Do not watch this muck. They remove completely stupid aborigines like the Operator. I know from a conversation with a museum employee who accompanied them during the shooting. They didn’t listen to anyone, they drove their previously composed snowstorm. The Armenian, who is transmitting and actively waving his arms, turned out to be a witness to the Schmeisser sect.
  7. DesToeR
    DesToeR 20 January 2018 22: 36
    10
    Quote: Operator
    NK416 automatic carbine / rifle (depending on the length of the interchangeable barrel) is a decent weapon

    Dot. And no more.
    Quote: Operator
    The layout solution NK416 (apper / hupper, coaxial barrel and butt \) is based on the Eugene Stoner AR and is superior to the layout solution AK (open top receiver, shifted down butt). As a result, it is impossible to correctly install modern optical devices on the AK (collimator, holographic sight, optical sight of variable magnification).

    It is strange how this Stoner laid his "successful" layout solution for the installation of optical sights, if the M-16 troops went without them? Clairvoyance? I don’t think so!
    Quote: Operator
    The only advantage of AK (increased reliability) is achieved in a purely collective-farm way - by accelerating the rollback of the bolt to the "cosmic" speed, sweeping away all the impurities in its path, but guaranteed to shoot down the sight when firing in bursts.

    But are there other ways to achieve "increased reliability", except by accelerating the moving parts of automation? And what is the term "increased reliability"? Reliability can be either sufficient or insufficient. Moreover, the criterion is not abstract sensations of the so-called "operators" at the test site, and a specific, mathematically calculated indicator.
    Quote: Operator
    At one time, US Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara simply dispersed the American analogue of the GRAU, which prevented the transition to low-pulse cartridges.

    That's when the US defense ministers will go through a couple of world wars in a "survival" mode, when they organize the production of the very small arms in million copies with the loss of half of the industry and general mobilization, then it will be possible to listen to their criteria for evaluating the effectiveness of the small arms system. In the meantime, it’s better to use your own - it works, it’s checked.
    1. Black_Vatnik
      Black_Vatnik 20 January 2018 23: 39
      +5
      Dot. And no more.

      There is an opinion of competent people that the advertised possibility of a quick change of trunks (it is also called the modular word "Modularity"), what for, a soldier on the front line does not need this for some reason. The main function of this very modularity is the principle of "Beautifully advertised, expensive to sell."

      But are there other ways to achieve "increased reliability", except by accelerating the moving parts of automation? And what is the term "increased reliability"? Reliability can be either sufficient or insufficient. Moreover, the criterion is not abstract sensations of the so-called "operators" at the test site, and a specific, mathematically calculated indicator.

      People who do not read the memoirs of war veterans, who in principle do not understand what war is even at the level of theory, will never understand that all the advantages of an instrument instantly fly into the pipe if this instrument stops working. Accuracy, a cool sight, tactical gimmicks - all this is of course cool, but what for will I need it in a weapon that does not work? 100 million question.

      That's when the US defense ministers will go through a couple of world wars in a "survival" mode, when they organize the production of the very small arms in million copies with the loss of half of the industry and general mobilization, then it will be possible to listen to their criteria for evaluating the effectiveness of the small arms system. In the meantime, it’s better to use your own - it works, it’s checked.


      Why do U.S. ministers of defense do something? To engage in lobbying and kickbacks, it is not necessary to have an idea of ​​the tactics of defensive combat in a city or something like that.
      The United States has water on the left, water on the right, a satellite overhead, a beggar under the feet of a beggar - and you're talking about a survival war)


      The most interesting thing is that such articles can be riveted in batches, they will not differ much from each other. For it is impossible in the presence of modern technology to come up with something such that would be very different from the M-16 or AK for the better. The same NK416 is M16 with a welded piston ... how to drink give innovation, yeah)
      Well, of course, in this article you can not do without the legendary "Kalashnikov stole the idea from Schmeiser")
    2. Operator
      Operator 21 January 2018 00: 34
      +1
      DesToeR

      Eugene Stoner was exactly what he thought about the correct installation of optical sights on his AR-ku, otherwise he would not have washed down the receiver, the top of which is rigidly connected to the barrel and equipped with a place for mounting sights.

      Increased reliability is when the reliability of one weapon model is higher than another. Sufficient reliability is a subjective concept, each has its own opinion.
      Reliability clearly contradicts lethality - a club is an order of magnitude more reliable than firearms, the latter is an order of magnitude more lethal than the first.

      Judging by your comment, you and the GRAU generals are preparing for the past war laughing
  8. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 21 January 2018 00: 52
    +1
    Increased reliability of the M4. What the Americans requested from them, the Germans did.
    Why a scam?
  9. sd68
    sd68 21 January 2018 01: 35
    0
    Well, the author and povturt.
    What does the Norwegian special forces have to do with the USCM?
    No
    How did the author manage to pass off the introduction of a German assault rifle in the United States Commission for some American influence?
    As for working in extreme conditions, AK machines have low reliability, which is officially recognized by Izhmash and personally Kalashnikov.
    1. philosopher
      philosopher 22 January 2018 21: 32
      +2
      ... and a link to a document or at least a video in which the official representative or personally Kalashnikov recognize this.
      And in your understanding of "extreme conditions" is how? Much more extreme than the conditions for testing the performance of our weapons school?
  10. DesToeR
    DesToeR 21 January 2018 09: 21
    +4
    Quote: Operator
    Eugene Stoner was exactly what he thought about the correct installation of optical sights on his AR-ku, otherwise he would not have washed down the receiver, the top of which is rigidly connected to the barrel and equipped with a place for mounting sights.

    Is there some strange logic? After all, the Picatinny rail on the M-16 appeared only in 1994! And about the stiffness - so in AK also the sight mounting strap is firmly connected to the barrel.
    Quote: Operator
    Increased reliability is when the reliability of one weapon model is higher than another.

    This is a comparative indicator reflecting the advantage of one design over another. In TTZ, the developer is given the absolute indicator that must be achieved. When the AK was adopted by the USSR, there was no M-16 yet, but there was an understanding of what insufficient reliability was.
    Quote: Operator
    Sufficient reliability is a subjective concept, each has its own opinion.

    No, not subjective, but calculated on the basis of the operation of a particular weapon system.
    Quote: Operator
    Reliability is clearly contrary to mortality

    No, it does not contradict. There are many examples of how excellent (at the training grounds) weapons were discontinued only due to insufficient reliability. Having fallen into difficult combat conditions, the soldier threw out such a weapon and changed it to a simpler one.
    Quote: Operator
    Judging by your comment, you and the GRAU generals are preparing for the past war

    Neither the M-16 nor the HK416 will bring anything revolutionary to the battlefield compared to the AK-74M. In what is better, and in what is worse, the army will win, whose soldiers will be better trained and motivated. Instead of spending a lot of money on creating new rifle complexes for an existing cartridge, my personal opinion would be much better to equip the AK-74M troops with optical or caliber sights.
    1. sd68
      sd68 21 January 2018 09: 58
      0
      M16 has already introduced a low-pulse cartridge, on the model of which AK74 was made
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 21 January 2018 13: 14
        +2
        Quote: sd68
        M16 has already introduced a low-pulse cartridge,

        You are confused. The low-pulse cartridge was developed by itself. The M16 is the Stoner AR-10 rifle, converted, not too well, under this cartridge. That is, they altered it initially normally, but then the nuances began.
        1. sd68
          sd68 21 January 2018 14: 13
          0
          I understand the difference between a rifle and a cartridge.
          Nevertheless, the low-pulse cartridge in army weapons went precisely with the M16
  11. The comment was deleted.
  12. DesToeR
    DesToeR 21 January 2018 10: 01
    +1
    Quote: sd68
    M16 has already introduced a low-pulse cartridge, on the model of which AK74 was made

    Nobody argues. To date, the Russian army is armed with machine guns using low-pulse cartridges.
    1. sd68
      sd68 21 January 2018 14: 15
      0
      You wrote above that the M16 didn’t bring anything.
      But actually, the success of hostilities has long been decided not by a rifle
  13. bunta
    bunta 21 January 2018 15: 00
    0
    Resource rifle manufacturers have designated in 20 000 shots, which is two thousand more than the capabilities of the M4.


    I wonder which finger it is sucked from? In tests, the M27 was even inferior to the M16 in terms of barrel life.
  14. DesToeR
    DesToeR 21 January 2018 16: 42
    +1
    Quote: sd68
    You wrote above that the M16 didn’t bring anything.

    No, I did not write this. Read the offer carefully.
    1. sd68
      sd68 21 January 2018 22: 51
      0
      Neither the M-16 nor the HK416 will bring anything revolutionary to the battlefield compared to the AK-74M.

      So I misunderstood you.
      Of course they won’t bring it. In the age of guided ammunition, computers that allow for quick and accurate calculation of data for firing artillery, the “rougeau” becomes an auxiliary element for special cases on the field of modern combat.
      What happened earlier with the gun.
      1. Alf
        Alf 22 January 2018 00: 26
        0
        Quote: sd68
        In the age of guided ammunition, computers that allow for quick and accurate calculation of data for firing artillery, the “rougeau” becomes an auxiliary element for special cases on the field of modern combat.

        Then let the APU surrender all the machines, and arm themselves with pistols. It’s easier to carry, and in battle, neither one nor the other is needed.
        1. sd68
          sd68 22 January 2018 10: 18
          0
          Go somewhere in the News, so full of people like you, it will be convenient for you to discuss such issues with them.
          1. Alf
            Alf 22 January 2018 22: 30
            +1
            Quote: sd68
            Go somewhere in the News, so full of people like you, it will be convenient for you to discuss such issues with them.

            This is your place with AltIst with your similar ideas. There, at the same time, and talk with Carbine.
  15. Olezhek
    Olezhek 28 January 2018 10: 26
    +1
    In principle, back in WWI, a soldier’s personal weapon became something secondary to artillery / machine guns (secondarily)
    In WWII, the situation intensified ...
    Today, talk about some kind of “super screwdriver” for mass infantryman enough
    weird. Melee weapons.
    Special Forces or CTO forces there is another matter
    Kalash not kill precisely because of the impossibility / unnecessary breakthrough in this matter at the modern level of technology.
    They created so many heavy weapons that it makes no sense to twist circles around the infantry’s personal weapons.
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. abc_alex
    abc_alex 31 January 2018 17: 04
    0
    Quote: synthwave
    You can ask and I will answer you. It was originally planned that for aimed shooting, but in practice it turned out that to save ammunition.


    Initially - when? Shooting solo now does not mean aiming? Or shoot not to hit?

    Read what a carbine is. In general, ANYWHERE, never and no one wrote that Kalashmat is a carbine. You are probably the first. And AK and AR, this is one class of assault rifles. It's just that in the states they are called automatic rifles, or just rifles, and we have automatic rifles.


    What are you saying? Maybe then explain why in the USA the M-16 assault rifle is banned for sale and the AK-47 is allowed? :) Just the opposite, always and everywhere, no matter who compares these samples, it is especially noted that the AK is a carbine. You never know how they are called in the "Popular Mechanics", weapons are classified according to technical parameters, and not at the request of a journalist.

    "Automatons" were called in the USSR, and are often called now, self-loading systems of any caliber, capable of firing bursts. Were in use and "anti-aircraft machine" and "ship automatic". And generally speaking.

    An artillery machine gun is an independently functioning part of an automatic artillery gun, including a barrel, a bolt, recoil devices and other mechanisms necessary for reloading and firing a shot. For work A. and. the energy of powder gases or an extraneous source is used.
    Glossary of military terms. - M .: Military Publishing House. A. M. Plekhov, S. G. Shapkin. 1988


    So, by and large, the concept of “automatic” has nothing to do with the class of weapons; this is the definition of how reloading and descent are carried out. :)
    But if you insist on your point of view, please, only it will not give you anything, since there is GOST 28653-90 which unambiguously interprets the concept of “automatic” in small arms as an automatic carbine. Give a link or find yourself?

    So your phrase “Both AK and AR, this is one class” - you see, is absurd, even the abbreviation “AK” originally meant “automatic carbine”, and not “Kalashnikov’s machine gun”. But, God be with him, the name, you’d just clarify for a start by what classification “this is one class”. :) As you can see for yourself, according to the Russian AK classification, it’s a carbine :) But in my opinion there is no such class of weapons as an “assault rifle” in the NATO classification, it’s also from the “Popular Mechanics” :) There is an automatic rifle and automatic carbine.

    If you want Wikipedia, here's Wikipedia, from the article "Carabiner"

    By the middle of the 1944th century, as troops were saturated with machine guns, mortars, light artillery, armored vehicles and the like, the importance of small arms fell sharply, in particular its fire at medium and long ranges, so that it became possible to switch into arsenal already ordinary infantryman from a long rifle to a shorter, more comfortable carbine. By this time, the cavalry units had lost their significance, and at the same time, the role of motorized units increased, in which the soldiers also carried weapons with a shortened barrel behind their backs. For example, in the Red Army in XNUMX, instead of the Mosin rifle, for the arming of all infantry, a carbine was adopted, which at one time was developed on its basis for equipping cavalry, and a few years later it was Simonov’s self-loading carbine (SKS) and Kalashnikov’s automatic rifle (automatic carbine), AK, which were created as carbines from the very beginning and did not already have rifle systems corresponding to them ...



    Quote: synthwave
    LOL small-bore rifle, this is an intermediate, because he less powerful the same rifle, but more powerful pistol.


    Yes? And what are you measuring power in calibers? :) What do you measure it in? A watt is a Joule divided by a second, but Joules didn’t work for you, you have your own power measurement system :) Share it?


    Quote: synthwave
    A carbine is simply a rifle with a short barrel (not automatic). It does not depend on cartridges.


    Where did you read that? M-4 is no longer a carbine? SCS - not a carbine? They are automatic :) But don’t you tell me, at the “Mauser carbine of '98,” which rifle was in the “older brothers”? Look, there’s such a thing as “Saiga” - carbine based on AK, but the barrel length of her 580mm is almost 10 cm longer than that of the AK-74. Is this really a rifle, and the creators are misleading everyone? :)

    Quote: synthwave
    You know, I'm not particularly in the shooter, but you, in my opinion, live in your own special world, no offense ...


    Yes, what insults, you’re just “not in the shooter,” and therefore you get confused in what is confusing to disgrace even without you.
    The intermediate cartridge is valid in power between a rifle and a pistol in one caliber. But this range is limited. And if our cartridge enters into it, then the Shtatovskiy “falls out” of it, it is more powerful. It gives more pressure in the bore and communicates more energy to the pool. Therefore, the M-16 automatic rifle. And the AK-47 and AK-74 carbines. They have less than rifle bullet energy. And the cartridge of the M-16 rifle is low-pulse, since momentum is the product of mass and speed. Both rounds have light bullets and, accordingly, a small impulse.
    But there is also a formal sign of a rifle and carbine - the length of the barrel. It was only introduced a long time ago, when the process of firing was not yet precisely investigated and it was not proved that after a certain barrel length in calibers the bullet energy does not increase anymore. That is why the method of shortening the barrel of the M-16 rifle easily received a carbine under the rifle throne. But from a carbine under an intermediate cartridge, even though you are perverted, the rifle will not work. And the matter is not in the weapon but in the cartridge, on the base of the AK there are several sniper rifles, but they are all under the powerful rifle cartridge.

    As I understand it :)
  18. Bobxnumx
    Bobxnumx 26 March 2018 02: 00
    0
    Panic in the US must be negotiated!