Military Review

Railguns, combat lasers and plasma: American failures amid successes

73
In recent decades, the military and industry of leading countries are increasingly talking about the so-called weapons on new physical principles. Using fundamentally new ideas and solutions, it is proposed to create weapons with the highest characteristics and capabilities, unattainable for systems of traditional appearance. Nevertheless, far from always attempts to create such weapons lead to the desired results. Appear regularly news about the reduction or closure of any ambitious project. Just a few days ago, a similar fate befell another promising program.


Rail gun "goes off the rails"

A couple of weeks ago, the United States media reported on the plans of the US military to reduce one of the most interesting programs of recent times. It is already clear that as a result of this decision, one of the options for a promising weapon - if it is created - will appear only in the distant future. In addition, the Pentagon now has to reconsider its plans to re-equip some types of troops.

According to the analysis of the current situation, the US Department of Defense decided to revise its plans for the project of a promising rail cannon / railgun developed in the interests of the naval forces. This weapon, created by General Atomics and BAE Systems, was originally intended to be installed on advanced destroyers such as Zumwalt. Such ships must be equipped with a special power plant capable of ensuring the work of advanced weapons on new physical principles.


Principles of using ship and coast rail guns with an HPV projectile. Slide from the presentation of the US Department of Defense


When ordering the development of a new gun, the US military wanted a system capable of accelerating the projectile to the highest speeds and sending it to a range of nautical miles to 80-100. Acceleration of the ammunition with the help of the electromagnetic field made special demands on the electrical systems of the carrier ship, but gave significant operational and logistical advantages. In particular, only shells could be transported in the ship’s cellars; sleeves with a propellant charge for them were simply absent.

According to statements from the past, in the middle of this decade, the Zumwalt destroyer railgun had to pass all the necessary tests. Already in 2018-19, the first such product was planned to be delivered to the lead ship of the project. In the future, all serial destroyers could receive such weapons. A promising rail gun for American ships could be a real revolution in the field naval weapons.

In early December, the American edition of Task & Purpose revealed some details of the current work, and also spoke about the customer's dissatisfaction with their progress. It turned out that the railgun project does not fully fit into a certain estimate, and besides, it does not fully meet the technical requirements. In particular, the rate of fire of the gun does not yet exceed 5 rounds per minute with the required 10. The muzzle energy of the projectile also does not meet the requirements and has not yet reached the desired 32 MJ. In addition, the military had questions about the advisability of using a new gun with a promising "hyperspeed projectile" HVP.

The HVP product is a special carbide projectile capable of withstanding the highest mechanical and thermal loads. Using the railgun it can be accelerated to a speed of the order of M = 6 and sent to a distance of 170-180 km. This product was adapted for use by the “traditional” Mk 45 ship cannons. In this case, the speed is reduced to M = 3,5, and the range - to 50 km. However, even with such characteristics, the projectile is of interest to the military. Not so long ago, it was decided to continue the development of HVP as an independent project and without direct connection with the railgun. Such a decision markedly hit the prospects of the latter.

According to recent reports, the further development of promising weapons will look like this. The defense budget for the 2018 fiscal year provides for increased funding for the HVP project. Allocations for the railgun, in turn, will be reduced. If the contracting companies succeed in completing the required work and get the desired results within a reasonable time, the rail gun program will return again “to the old rails”. Otherwise, rejection of it as a means of developing weapons of the fleet is not excluded.

The Task & Purpose edition writes that in the absence of serious success in 2019, the Pentagon may completely abandon promising weapons. In this case, the work can be continued, but the use of the finished gun by the fleet, at least, is postponed indefinitely.

However, the refusal of the military department will not lead to a complete stop of work. It is reported that in this case, the study of promising areas will continue. However, due to cuts in funding, the deadlines for carrying out the work will noticeably move to the right.

It should be noted that such events around the weapons project on new physical principles are unlikely to have a negative impact on the program for building ships of the Zumwalt type. It was originally planned to build more than three dozen such destroyers, but the increased cost of the program, financial constraints and technical problems led to a sharp reduction in the order. Now the shipbuilding industry will have to transfer to the Navy only three ships: the head and two serial ones. Instead of new railguns, they will carry artillery of existing types.

What will happen next - it remains only to guess. It can be said that the next 2018 year will be decisive for a program that once seemed promising. If General Atomics and BAE Systems, as well as numerous subcontractors manage to get rid of existing problems, the railgun will get a chance to reach practical use. Otherwise, the list of bold, but useless projects that did not give real results, despite all the costs and efforts, will be updated with a new item.

Rails for plasma

It should be noted that the potential failure of the current project is not something new or unexpected. In the recent past, several other rail cannon projects were developed in the United States, including those designed for the use of unusual “projectiles” in the form of plasma clots. The concept of Plasma railgun envisioned the creation of a cloud of ionized gas, which with the aid of a pair of rails could be directed in the right direction. As the current state of affairs in the field of armaments shows, such ideas never reached the stage of introduction into the troops.


Experienced aircraft Boeing YAL-1. Photo US Agency for Missile Defense / mda.mil


In recent decades, several research programs have been carried out as part of the study of plasma railguns. One of the most famous and large-scale remained in stories under the name MARAUDER (Magnetically accelerated ring to achieve ultra high directed energy and radiation - “Magnetic Ring Acceleration for Super Powerful Directional Radiation”). This program was launched in 1991 and was implemented by the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. The work continued for several years and, apparently, led to some results.

In 1993, an experienced plasma rail gun was built at the Phillips laboratory operated by the United States Air Force. She could heat 2 mg gas to temperatures of the order of 1010 ° K and form a ring with a diameter of 1 m from the plasma. The kinetic energy of the plasma ejected through the barrel of a particular design reached 8-10 MJ. The tests showed that a small plasma cloud is capable of inflicting the most serious mechanical and thermal damage to the target object. Radiated electromagnetic pulse could hit electronic devices.

There is reason to believe that the Pentagon is interested in the Plasma railgun theme. The main argument in favor of such an assumption is the fact that since the mid-nineties, American scientists have never mentioned the MARAUDER project in their new publications. Perhaps the topic was classified. Similarly, the situation was with other attempts to study a system that combines a plasma generator and a rail system for accelerating charged particles.

Nevertheless, the presence of a number of interesting features and a certain potential did not affect in any way the real prospects of such systems. Even a quarter of a century after the start of work, no plasma-railgun type device was ever brought to the test of a full-scale prototype, as has already happened with rail guns or combat lasers. It seems that the interesting direction turned out to be too difficult for development and simply could not justify itself.

"Air laser" went to land

One of the most famous American weapons programs on new physical principles that have not gone beyond the stage of testing and research is the project Boeing YAL-1. His goal was to create a special aircraft equipped with a laser complex and a variety of additional equipment. The new aircraft was to become one of the elements of a promising missile defense system and destroy enemy ballistic missiles in the initial segments of the trajectory.

Since the beginning of the nineties, several American enterprises have been working on the ABL (Airborn Laser - “Air Laser”) project, which has developed a new combat laser and additional systems necessary for it. At the end of the decade, the construction of a prototype aircraft with special equipment - Boeing YAL-1. According to the plans of that time, two prototypes should be involved in the tests. After the completion of all inspections, it was planned to build five serial machines and deploy them on the main directions of a possible nuclear missile strike by a potential enemy.

Due to the high complexity, the ABL / YAL-1 program proved to be prohibitively expensive. Already in the first half of the two thousand years, the program cost reached 3 billion dollars, exceeding the original estimate. Estimates have shown that to achieve the desired results will have to spend at least another 5-7 billions. In this regard, the Pentagon refused to adopt new equipment for service. The plane with the laser was transferred to the category of technology demonstrators. The construction of the second prototype and serial equipment for combat use was canceled.

After the appearance of such solutions, Boeing YAL-1 began to demonstrate the required capabilities. In the spring of 2007, the aircraft’s equipment was able to detect and accompany the training target. In 2009, two tests took place during which the aircraft was able to accompany real target rockets. Finally, in February 2010, the aircraft with a laser in two flights destroyed three ballistic missiles. It took no more than a few minutes to destroy the rocket structure using a 1 MW beam.

After these tests, the checks of the equipment were suspended in practice. In 2011, the Pentagon, following the instructions of the country's leadership to reduce military spending, decided to close the ABL project and abandon further work on the Boeing YAL-1 aircraft. The only prototype was sent to storage, but in 2014-m it was disposed of as useless.

Failures on the background of success

Wanting to gain a military advantage over potential adversaries, the United States is developing weapons based on so-called. new physical principles. To date, American scientists have explored a number of promising areas and created a significant number of new projects of various kinds. Studied and tested, at least in laboratory conditions, rail gun systems (both kinetic and plasma), numerous laser devices, etc. Over the past decades, a total of several dozens of similar projects and prototypes have been created.

Railguns, combat lasers and plasma: American failures amid successes
Nasal laser installation of the aircraft Boeing YAL-1. Photo of Wikimedia Commons


As practice shows, not all such projects have real prospects and can be completed with the desired result at reasonable costs. For whatever economic, technological, or practical reasons, the US military has to close promising projects. Prototypes are sent to storage or cutting, and the documentation goes to the archive or becomes the basis for new developments.

The current situation has one specific feature. The closure of some projects led to the actual loss of funding without the desired practical result. Nevertheless, the second result of closed projects turned out to be solid experience in various fields, suitable for use in new projects. Thus, even the negative results of the projects contributed to the further development of new directions and - even if indirectly - influenced new works.

In addition, it should be remembered that for each closed weapons project on new physical principles, there are a number of ongoing programs. For example, several companies continue to work on a combat laser for ships. A return to relatively old ideas is also possible, but in a new form. Thus, in the spring of this year, the Pentagon announced its intention to integrate a combat laser into the armament complex of an AC-130 fire support aircraft.

Thus, the failure of individual ambitious projects, causing some damage to the budget and defense, still does not lead to fatal consequences for the development of the US armed forces as a whole. Negative experience indicates the real prospects of certain ideas, and the accumulated knowledge is used in new projects. However, all these failures lead to unnecessary spending, delaying the rearmament of the army and, as a result, prove useful to the “likely opponents” of the United States. Other countries, including Russia, should take American successes and failures into account when drawing up new plans for the development of their own armed forces.


On the materials of the sites:
http://taskandpurpose.com/
http://arms-expo.ru/
https://vpk.name/
http://globalsecurity.org/
https://osti.gov/
http://armyrecognition.com/
http://naval-technology.com/
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  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 20 December 2017 10: 09
      +3
      Quote: Tyulen
      I can’t figure out why I spent 10 minutes of time on this.

      Maybe there was nothing to do? wink
      1. Tyulen
        Tyulen 20 December 2017 21: 51
        0
        I was riding in a shuttle bus, a woman was sitting next to her stinking of manure, and I had the choice to watch Hayley Reinhart's videos, or read the news.
        I wanted news.
    2. Chertt
      Chertt 20 December 2017 12: 18
      +1
      Quote: Tyulen
      "the Yankees did not succeed, but they tried"

      Despite the failure of the project itself, a large number of related scientific and technical know-how were invented and implemented. In the USSR-Russia, also a large number of revolutionary projects, did not reach the production stage, but were an impetus for development for dozens of related areas. This is an invaluable experience.
      1. yehat
        yehat 9 February 2018 17: 46
        0
        This is an invaluable experience.

        which also disappeared in the majority
    3. vlad_vlad
      vlad_vlad 20 December 2017 12: 22
      +3
      Tyulen Today, 08:24 am New
      Briefly about the article: "the Yankees did not succeed, but they tried"


      briefly about the article: "Americans can afford to research and invest 100500 times unsuccessfully."

      the result is better than nothing. each failure is an important step towards subsequent success. and money for all the fun is still enough.
  2. omit
    omit 20 December 2017 08: 49
    +2
    Not the fact that in fact everything is exactly as described. No one has canceled the secret.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 20 December 2017 10: 07
      0
      To lasers, of greater power, air-based, are likely to return in the future.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 20 December 2017 14: 01
        +1
        And to the rail gun too.
        It works, but does not give a high rate of fire. 5 instead of 10.
        But ordinary howitzers with powder charges do not give more than 6 rounds per minute.
        But the ship with the railgun does not need to load these charges.
        This is not a critical failure.
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 21 December 2017 02: 04
          +1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          But the ship with the railgun does not need to load these charges.

          ... just load a "small" nuclear power plant. Great Choice! (as the "manager" in the mall says ...)
          Quote: voyaka uh
          It works, but does not give a high rate of fire. 5 instead of 10.
          But ordinary howitzers with powder charges do not give more 6 rounds per minute

          Funky technique! Compare the railgun with the "powder" howitzer in rate of fire ... it turns out that the howitzer is better! wink
          1. MadCat
            MadCat 21 December 2017 04: 42
            +1
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            ... just load a "small" nuclear power plant. Great Choice! (as the "manager" in the mall says ...)

            and you look at the power available on the latest US ships, you will be very surprised.
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 21 December 2017 06: 36
              0
              Quote: MadCat
              and you look at the power available on the latest US ships, you will be very surprised.

              Che ... and the NPP is no longer necessary? belay Agreed! yes I'll see! And then for a very long time I was not interested in detail (!) The US Navy ... what
          2. yehat
            yehat 9 February 2018 17: 48
            0
            on ships, you can install energy storage from waves or from temperature differences in different layers or from the wind - this is a ready source fellow
    2. avt
      avt 20 December 2017 15: 08
      +4
      Quote: omit
      It’s not a fact that, in fact, everything is exactly as described. Nobody canceled the secrecy.

      As practice shows, well, at least for the same hypersound, the information just quietly disappears with the successful conduct of business.
      Quote: voyaka uh
      This is not a critical failure.

      It just ended the Soviet documentation, which was stolen from Russia in the 90s, especially on the laser theme, Ustinov’s beloved brainchild. So, just in case - only the USSR IN PRACTICE tested a laser ... ,, range finder "on the USA shuttle as a target. Moreover, I was ready to conduct full-scale tests in space, on the recessed Gorby ,, Scythian." So the cartoons about the SDI were drawn beautiful, but in the USSR they really did the job. By the way, in confirmation of my words, even at EBN, a naturalized American, former director of IKI Sagdeev, came. With the proposal ,, to share "with his new homeland something else under the sauce - ,, joint missile defense." I was very indignant, and on camera - ,, What do they offer the S-300 !? Something newer is needed. "
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 20 December 2017 15: 32
        0
        "The Soviet documentation just ended ...
        ... So the cartoons about the SDI were drawn by us beautiful, but in the USSR they really did the job. "////

        But we are safe and sound and continue to work, and the USSR collapsed.
        And we calmly and confidently come forward along the military R&D.
        And now give the Americans of Russia at least all the documents on their latest
        developments, Russia will not be able to implement them.
      2. KKND
        KKND 20 December 2017 15: 33
        0
        Quote: avt
        As practice shows, well, at least for the same hypersound, the information just quietly disappears with the successful conduct of business.

        And also when the engineers pledged money into their pockets in the form of a salary, and the prototype came out.
        Quote: avt
        It just ended the Soviet documentation, which was stolen from Russia in the 90s, especially on the laser theme, Ustinov’s beloved brainchild.

        avt I do not want to run into you, but you are definitely a cynic? More like a romance.
        Quote: avt
        So the cartoons about the SDI were drawn beautiful, but in the USSR they really did the job.

        Yes, physics in the USSR and the USA was different. WHAT? Physics in the USSR knew better ?. Well, the USA in electronics and many other things went around us, they didn’t know physics. Anyway, it was the traitor Gorbi who trained their engineers, but he taught us how to do it.
        1. avt
          avt 20 December 2017 17: 54
          +3
          Quote: KKND
          Are you definitely a zynik? .

          We are sure, but if you really don’t know something, then someone else’s knowledge is not romance. I was surprised to see the dokfilm on Russia 24 about Berezhnoy- I did not expect the topic to be so widely publicized. Moscow in those days was buzzing with rumors of an explosion on Kirov Street. Look, you will learn a lot for further knowledge - how in the USSR they approached the solution of the issue.
          Quote: KKND
          Physics in the USSR knew better?

          In terms of the average level of performers - an order of magnitude.
          Quote: KKND
          Well, the USA in electronics and many other things passed us by,

          And where and most importantly, when was the idea of ​​mobile communications implemented in practice? Who created the first CD compact disc and where? The Internet forerunner was implemented for a dozen subscribers of the GB board with information updating every half hour.
          Quote: KKND
          this is the traitor Gorby trained their engineers

          The poplite did not roll even a millimeter - First of all, GLONAS / GPS, the late Chertok (if the name says something) suggested that it be Gorbatom’s comrades who did it in the USSR in terms of conversion, and Gorb offered to rivet the pots. When Buran flew and landed on autopilot and when did the X-37? (By the way, again about Berezhnoy and Glissad ") Well and about
          Quote: KKND
          Gorby trained their engineers,
          for dessert - Why teach? Attentively re-read my ,, romance "
          Quote: avt
          naturalized American, former director of IKI Sagdeev.

          They simply dragged to themselves those whom they considered necessary, and then completely decided to pay for the work on the ground through grants from Zoros — cheaper than to place the emigrants at home.
          Quote: Metlik
          The USA very quickly realized that it would not work to defeat the USSR in a technological race. Our science and engineering school were at least no worse. Therefore, progress in the military sphere was inhibited as much as possible, and the stake was made on betrayal and the collapse of the enemy from the inside. Project failure statements can be common misinformation to influence the development of these areas in other countries.

          What they did brilliantly.
          1. KKND
            KKND 20 December 2017 18: 24
            0
            Quote: avt
            I was surprised to see the dokfilm on Russia 24 about Berezhnoy

            the cynic watched our cheap propaganda with surprise. belay
            state-owned media only drive propaganda both in our country and in the USA, unless they have propaganda of a higher quality than 1984, here’s how propaganda should be done, and not like ours- "and so will."

            Quote: avt
            In terms of the average level of performers - an order of magnitude.

            It is difficult to judge here, maybe you are right, here the state test had to be run, what they have, what we have, and organizationally, is very complicated. Then it will be possible to discuss something.
            While we are looking at the results: electronics-they, rocket science-we, biotechnology-they, chemistry-they, engine-engineering, I can’t judge here, etc.
            But in general, honestly, where are they at 1 or 2 places and where are we at 1 or 2?
            Quote: avt
            And where and most importantly, when was the idea of ​​mobile communications implemented in practice? Who created the first CD compact disc and where? The Internet forerunner was implemented for a dozen subscribers of the GB board with information updating every half hour.

            And it doesn’t matter, people constantly steal ideas from each other, you tell me where is our CD, which store to run to, and where I write all this?
            Moreover, despite our merits in the field of radio and laser technology, amers have even more merits, and here our valiant propaganda enters the “scene” and announces that all of them were invented by Russians (nothing reminds laughing ) - "and so do."
            Quote: avt
            They simply dragged to themselves those whom they considered necessary, and then completely decided to pay for the work on the ground through grants from Zoros — cheaper than to place the emigrants at home.

            Yeah, a crowd of Soviet engineers fled in the 60s and made them "ARPANET" where without us (were there ancient Ukrainians among them?)
            Quote: avt
            What they did brilliantly.

            Hmm. What vile Americans, miserable but cunning, collective image.
            1. avt
              avt 20 December 2017 19: 18
              +3
              Quote: KKND
              the cynic watched our cheap propaganda with surprise.

              A film about Berezhnoy and KKABK propaganda! ??
              Quote: KKND
              Moreover, despite our merits in the field of radio and laser technology, amers have even more merits, and here our valiant propaganda enters the “scene” and announces that all of them were invented by Russians (nothing reminds

              The art whistle continues ....
      3. opus
        opus 20 December 2017 18: 12
        +2
        Quote: avt
        only the USSR IN PRACTICE tested a laser ... ,, rangefinder "on the USA shuttle as a target.

        not figasse "range finder"
        5Н26 / ЛЭ-1 (a matrix of 196 lasers (PMTs) with 10 J pulse energy alternating with a frequency of 1 Hz)


        this is only his Telescope TG-1 (Serviceman for scale)


        1. KKND
          KKND 20 December 2017 18: 42
          0
          Quote: opus
          5Н26 / ЛЭ-1 (a matrix of 196 lasers (PMTs) with 10 J pulse energy alternating with a frequency of 1 Hz)

          Uh ... exactly 1 J? mean in the pulse 196 J ?.
          1. opus
            opus 20 December 2017 19: 59
            0
            Quote: KKND
            Uh ... exactly 1 J? mean in the pulse 196 J ?.

            Yes, not enough
            Installation capacity average - 2 kW
            2 kW per second = 2 000 W per second = 2000 J (well, so roughly)
            Divide by 196 =
            we get 10,2 watts per pulse
            Quote: opus
            matrix of 196 alternately working with a frequency of 10 Hz lasers (PMT)
            1. KKND
              KKND 20 December 2017 20: 27
              0
              Quote: opus
              Yes, not enough
              Installation capacity average - 2 kW
              2 kW per second = 2 000 W per second = 2000 J (well, so roughly)
              Divide by 196 =
              we get 10,2 watts per pulse

              Anton is not what you google.
              Firstly, if the installation power is 2000 J per second, then a pulse can be 200000 watts, it is enough to transfer energy in 0.01 seconds, then wait 0,99 seconds and again.
              196 according to the idea should be multiplied by 2000 j., But
              Quote: opus
              Quote: opus
              matrix of 196 alternately working with a frequency of 10 Hz lasers (PMT)

              It drives me into a stupor. 0.1 sec. Pulses for lasers are not serious., And why, alternately (and not periodically), this excuse me does not reach the word at all.
              1. opus
                opus 20 December 2017 21: 52
                0
                Quote: KKND
                Anton is not what you google.

                not google

                Quote: KKND
                Firstly, if the installation power is 2000 J per second

                1.I'm confused since school
                W = J / s
                W * s = J

                1 kWh = 3,6 MJ
                1000 W * 3600 = 3 600 000 J

                Quote: opus
                Installation capacity average - 2 kW

                2kW * s = 2000 W * s = 2000J
                / 196
                10,2 Watts per pulse = 10 ,, 2 J / s (transfers energy)


                First lasers: - ruby ​​10 J laser (September 1963 GOI
                them. S.I. Vavilova), - ruby ​​QNUMX J laser with Q-switching
                (LPI - 1963), - 1000 W CO2 laser (NIIPF - 1966)

                2.
                Quote: KKND
                2000 plant power j per second

                J * s?
                belay
                Energy (Work) multiplied by time ???
                What is this size / crap?

                Quote: KKND
                . 0.1 sec pulses for lasers not seriously

                for those times?

                From the declassified letter of the deputy director of the LPI
                N.G. Basov President of the USSR Academy of Sciences M.V. Keldysh in response to a request
                USSR Ministry of Defense dated December 1963:
                You can probably create generators [lasers] with energy
                up to 10 ^ 6 -10 ^ 7 J, using an explosion as a source of energy
                conventional explosives ... Apparently, the only way to create generators with energy 10 ^ 9 -10 ^ 10 J is to use an atomic explosion as a pump source ...


                1. KKND
                  KKND 20 December 2017 22: 59
                  0
                  Quote: opus
                  Tata: KKND
                  plant power 2000 j per second
                  J * s?

                  Anton da Joule per second. An energy of 2000 joules passes in one second.
                  What is not clear? it is clear that the power in this second will be 2000 watts. And if 2000j passes in 0.01 seconds there will be 2 * 10 in the 5th watt. Am I supposed to work as a primary school physics teacher?
                  Quote: opus
                  Energy (Work) multiplied by time ???

                  Quote: opus
                  What is this size / crap?

                  And I don’t know what kind of crap. Why do you think that I meant it.
                  Quote: opus
                  2kW * s = 2000 W * s = 2000J
                  / 196
                  10,2 Watts per pulse = 10 ,, 2 J / s (transfers energy)

                  Listen, why are you sharing? At least I don’t understand. Type the more light bulbs in the room to install the darker it will be. Just do not talk about interference.
                  Quote: opus
                  for those times?

                  Yes, for those times it sucks like for today. Lasers transmit very little energy per pulse (resonance stage) TRANSFER.
                  The whole joke is that all this energy can be transmitted in milliseconds. That's where they got such power. 1 J \ 0.0000001sec. here is a megawatt.
                  Excuse me if I'm rude to you. You tore me from your rzhachny video on YouTube with your children's questions. Just a little less ambition, I am ready to teach you, although in physics I’m a complete sucker.
                  1. Shahno
                    Shahno 20 December 2017 23: 12
                    0
                    So everything is possible. The energy multiplied by time is the integral of the Lagrange action. You are not our physicists ...
                    1. KKND
                      KKND 20 December 2017 23: 21
                      0
                      Quote: Shahno
                      So everything is possible. The energy multiplied by time is the integral of the Lagrange action. You are not our physicists ...

                      I can be far from you, just do not need to be clever. It’s as if I don’t know that there are some losers on this site who boast of their knowledge. It concerns you too. Better teach what you know, help as much as you can, but maybe not a lot. Once on this site.
                      I can do that too.
                      So everything is impossible. Energy is a mass of time and space.
                      I am the smartest, but all (C)
                      1. Shahno
                        Shahno 20 December 2017 23: 30
                        0
                        Sorry if something is wrong. I just remembered my graduation project. Nostalgia or something. "Lagrangian and Maxwell's equations." It’s kind of called. I always just explain.
                  2. opus
                    opus 21 December 2017 16: 04
                    0
                    Quote: KKND
                    You tore me away from your hustle video on YouTube with your children's questions. It’s just that I’m ready to teach you less arrogance, even if in physics itself a complete sucker.

                    Touched a sucker will "poduchat"?
                    Who has the wind blown off the laser beam?
                    Quote: KKND
                    I am the smartest, but all (C)

                    (carefully contains profanity)

                    roll a couple more glasses and look
                    Quote: KKND
                    Am I supposed to be a teacher of physics of elementary grades?

                    better to come back
                    Quote: KKND
                    You tore me away from your hustle video on YouTube with your children's questions.

                    Quote: KKND
                    In general, Anton, besides your ability to google you a physics textbook, you need to read classes from the 9-11. Not the first time I notice.


                    Yes exactly.

                    laughed all day today at work
                    https://topwar.ru/index.php?do=lastcomments&u
                    serid = 122207
                    1. KKND
                      KKND 21 December 2017 17: 30
                      0
                      Quote: opus
                      Yes exactly.
                      laughed all day today at work

                      It’s a pity Anton that instead of being prepared, if you don’t understand, at least critically evaluate it, your brain has switched to the “protection” mode. Despite some positive aspects of this regimen, which are necessary when rubbish is rubbed on you, this regimen also completely excludes common sense.
                      Because of this, there is a complete misunderstanding of both misinformation and the correct information. Simply put, you can’t learn anything.
                      I do not blame you, you are probably not a young man, but frankly this is your problem.
                      It’s my fault too, too abruptly starting a conversation with a person much older than me, I'm sorry. And I don’t think you are a bad and stupid person.
        2. avt
          avt 20 December 2017 19: 20
          +2
          Quote: opus
          not figasse "range finder"

          So it’s Ustinov’s not at full capacity, to measure the range to the shuttle ”ordered! bully They began to boil hard-boiled there so that, according to the “Hot Line,” US bully
          1. KKND
            KKND 20 December 2017 19: 39
            0
            Quote: avt
            So it’s Ustinov’s not at full capacity, “I ordered to measure the range to the shuttle!” They started to cook hard-boiled there so that the US started

            Specifically, what is the power in the pulse ?. For those who are especially smart: if the power plant produces Megawatts, then in 0,001s the impulse from it will be 1 Kilowatt. How powerful should the momentum be for Americans in a heat-resistant Shuttle to bequeathed at great heights?
            1. opus
              opus 20 December 2017 20: 00
              +1
              Quote: KKND
              Specifically, what is the power per pulse?

              unless otherwise specified, then in sec. believed to be tk si
              1. KKND
                KKND 20 December 2017 20: 12
                0
                Quote: opus
                unless otherwise specified, then in sec. believed to be tk si

                Yes, I know.
                I’m thinking how much power should be in order for the Americans to feel any effect?
                And what effect can they feel? Only a rise in temperature. Can you imagine how much energy it takes for the Shuttle to heat +20 degrees? Which is heat resistant. And in the airless space. From Earth 300 + km. But the Americans do not be fools yet somehow found out that the USSR was plotting them.
                That's just funny. The shark turned out to be a brainless fish.
                1. opus
                  opus 20 December 2017 22: 04
                  0
                  Quote: KKND
                  And what effect can they feel? Only a rise in temperature.

                  1..About a fever - no one complained.
                  Judging by the reports: they felt bad, the equipment went bad
                  2. Laser radiation is an electromagnetic wave of a certain frequency, power and polarization.

                  The long-term chronic effect of diffusely reflected laser radiation of non-thermal intensity can cause nonspecific, mainly vegetative-vascular disorders; functional changes can be observed from the side of the nervous, cardiovascular system, endocrine glands.


                  Researchers note the presence of shifts in the functioning of the endocrine and immune systems, the central and peripheral nervous systems, and protein, carbohydrate, and lipid metabolisms in the visible spectrum of laser-affected patients.
                  1. KKND
                    KKND 20 December 2017 23: 07
                    0
                    Quote: opus
                    The long-term chronic effect of diffusely reflected laser radiation of non-thermal intensity can cause nonspecific, mainly vegetative-vascular disorders; functional changes can be observed from the side of the nervous, cardiovascular system, endocrine glands.

                    The keyword here is chronically long, and even diffusely reflected.
                    And they were in the shuttle.
  3. Metlik
    Metlik 20 December 2017 09: 39
    +2
    The USA very quickly realized that it would not work to defeat the USSR in a technological race. Our science and engineering school were at least no worse. Therefore, progress in the military sphere was inhibited as much as possible, and the stake was made on betrayal and the collapse of the enemy from the inside. Project failure statements can be common misinformation to influence the development of these areas in other countries.
  4. The comment was deleted.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 20 December 2017 10: 12
      +1
      What is it? belay Encryption for Eustace? request
      1. omit
        omit 20 December 2017 10: 34
        0
        Nikolaevich I What is this? Encryption for Eustace?
        Right To him. hi
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 20 December 2017 11: 50
          0
          Ahhh! And I thought to read at my leisure ... recourse
  5. Old26
    Old26 20 December 2017 10: 09
    +3
    Quote: Metlik
    The USA very quickly realized that it would not work to defeat the USSR in a technological race. Our science and engineering school were at least no worse. Therefore, progress in the military sphere was inhibited as much as possible, and the stake was made on betrayal and the collapse of the enemy from the inside. Project failure statements can be common misinformation to influence the development of these areas in other countries.

    Understanding or not understanding the impossibility of winning a technological race is very slippery and unsteady. The development of countries, scientific schools, in fact, was approximately at the same level. And R&D funding during the time of the Union was sufficient, not the same as it is now. But it was impossible to predict the final result in advance. Therefore, I do not see anything tragic in the fact that these or other programs of the countries were not brought to iron and were closed for various reasons. And for the article, Cyril, thank you. Interesting enough. In general, even the failed SDI of the 80s had its positive results.

    Yes, allegations of failure may be misinformation, but unlikely. Services of various countries nevertheless track results not only on the basis of media materials and do not accept anything on faith. Perhaps desa, and perhaps realities. Take the same laser complex as above. They spent billions until they realized that creating a small spot with an energy density in it would not work. The beam is scattered and on the target does not turn into a spot with a diameter of 1 cm, but into a spot with a diameter of 50 centimeters. As a result, the range falls. A further increase in power is likely to run into technical obstacles
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 20 December 2017 12: 11
      +1
      Quote: Old26
      Take the same laser complex as above. They spent billions until they realized that creating a small spot with an energy density in it would not work. The beam is scattered and on the target does not turn into a spot with a diameter of 1 cm, but a spot with a diameter of 50 centimeters.

      With the laser complex, it’s still more interesting: the fact is that at the beam powers that are required to destroy the missiles, all non-linearity begins - the beam begins to significantly affect the characteristics of the propagation medium. And only the Lord God will be able to calculate the propagation process of such a beam in a real atmosphere, the indicators of which are also constantly changing. A "sighting" with an auxiliary laser will help a little - not those powers.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 20 December 2017 14: 09
        +2
        "With the laser complex is still more interesting: the fact is that at those beam powers,
        which are required to destroy missiles "////

        This problem, which was considered essentially unsolvable by the Soviet
        scientists in the last century have successfully decided.
        They do not increase the power of ONE beam, but reduce the spots of many
        (tens) of rays. And get the total desired spot 1 cm diameter.
        The Boeing program with the laser was not slowed down because of this. And because they swung
        to intercept ICBMs on takeoff. But Boeing will not be able to get into the depths of airspace
        Of Russia. Unreal.
        1. opus
          opus 20 December 2017 22: 16
          0
          Quote: voyaka uh
          This problem, which was considered essentially unsolvable by the Soviet
          scientists in the last century

          Yes Yes Yes Yes.
          Padded jackets that take us



          I now wonder if
          Quote: voyaka uh
          - decided successfully.

          Well, it is clear kto.What do they come to us to "learn from experience"?
          Quote: voyaka uh
          and bring to the point of spot many
          (tens) of rays. And get the total desired spot 1 cm diameter.

          Quote: voyaka uh
          The Boeing program with the laser was not slowed down because of this. And because they swung
          to intercept the ICBM on takeoff

          belay
          What a crap.
          so that Boeing YAL-1 could intercept our ICBMs on takeoff, he needs to circle Kostroma, or HEIGHT away from 800km.
          The laser still chapaet in a straight line and the curvature of the surface prevents it

          curve it .. curve surface

      2. KKND
        KKND 20 December 2017 15: 21
        0
        Quote: Alexey RA
        And only the Lord God will be able to calculate the propagation process of such a beam in a real atmosphere, the indicators of which are also constantly changing.

        As if they did not know that different air densities (yes, including wind) deflect the laser beam. This is a school pass.
        1. opus
          opus 20 December 2017 22: 23
          0
          Quote: KKND
          (yes, yes, including the wind) deflect the laser beam.

          belay
          wind? laser beam? Rejects?

          Shl.
          5 June 2014 of the year on the ISS has earned a laser modem, which repeatedly transmitted to Earth a video in HD quality with the words “Hello world”.


          OPALS (Optical Payload for Lasercomm Science)
          to maintain communication, you need to accurately aim the onboard laser at the receiving device in the observatory. This is despite the fact that the station moves at a speed of 7,6 kilometers per second relative to the earth's surface.

          To set up an orbital laser, it was first “illuminated” from the Earth. OPALS turned on its 2,5-watt laser and sent a response coded pulse in the direction of the original signal.

          The test transmission of 5 June lasted 148 seconds, and the maximum transmission speed reached 50 Mbps. One video was copied in 3,5 seconds, although a conventional radio modem would transmit it to 10 minutes.

          For all 148 seconds of transmission, OPALS successfully held the scope, without deflecting the laser beam by more than 0,01 °.



          100 km of madly carrying the air flow and 300-500 still beyond the Pocket line (solar "wind") did not blow the beam of the poor laser
          Not blown away
          1. KKND
            KKND 20 December 2017 22: 40
            0
            Anton I want to swear. Honor in you is decent (although not as much as that of Shuravi), and you do not know the laws of physics from school.
            Take air of one and another density. At the boundary of the media, the electromagnetic wave experiences refraction (deviates). Mirage, coin in a cup. Should I explain this to you? Wind is the movement of air at which density varies with speed. Here is the effect of refraction.
            Quote: opus
            For all 148 seconds of transmission, OPALS successfully held the scope, without deflecting the laser beam by more than 0,01 °.

            The deviation was less than 0,01 degrees. What is not clear?. If in more detail then nothing is clear to me, m. they took into account the refractive index of the atmosphere from the station to the Earth?

            Quote: opus
            The test transmission of 5 June lasted 148 seconds, and the maximum transmission speed reached 50 Mbps. One video was copied in 3,5 seconds, although a conventional radio modem would transmit it to 10 minutes.
            For all 148 seconds of transmission, OPALS successfully held the scope, without deflecting the laser beam by more than 0,01 °.

            I hz how they did it.
            Quote: opus
            100 km of madly carrying the air flow and 300-500 still beyond the Pocket line (solar "wind") did not blow the beam of the poor laser

            it was possible to take into account the speed of the air flow, and you yourself understand the density of the solar wind at about 1 atom per 1 cmXNUMX (you can ignore it).
            In general, Anton, besides your ability to google you a physics textbook, you need to read classes from the 9-11. Not the first time I notice.
            1. Falcon5555
              Falcon5555 21 December 2017 02: 13
              +2
              0.01 degrees for a distance of 400 km is 70 meters. They probably had a beam with a "bunny" of the same or greater width. But they didn’t have to incinerate something! A sufficiently small fraction of the signal trapped in the detector. Therefore, the wind was to them a light bulb.
    2. KKND
      KKND 20 December 2017 15: 26
      0
      Quote: Old26
      Therefore, I do not see anything tragic in the fact that these or other programs of the countries were not brought to iron and were closed for various reasons.

      Indeed, if they were not brought to iron, then nothing tragic, but if millions were spent on them, then it is very tragic. To invest in engineering nonsense means to destroy the country's defenses.
    3. Town Hall
      Town Hall 20 December 2017 15: 49
      0
      Quote: Old26
      The development of countries, scientific schools, in fact, was approximately at the same level




      Controversially ... more than
  6. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 20 December 2017 10: 38
    +3
    In any case, new materials and technologies have been obtained. Both projects are tied to energy ... and this applies to more traditional matters. There is money that does not need to be earned ... why not investigate. You can start the lunar program again.
  7. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 20 December 2017 11: 03
    0
    Science does not stand still. With her are moving forward the latest technology and the pace of this movement is truly great. We are witnesses of these processes, and the trial and error method was not invented today or even yesterday. The fact that today is not profitable, expensive, does not fit into the framework of generally accepted laws of physics - tomorrow may be the most mundane and familiar. The world is changing very quickly right in front of our eyes. Moreover, in the conditions of the modern globalized world, it doesn’t matter at all what we say the iPhone was made up in the USA, made in China, and used in some provincial Dundrovka, or in the forgotten God Aldenanus.
  8. shuravi
    shuravi 20 December 2017 11: 34
    0
    In such matters, the question is always dominant, but what about the exhaust? Here, for example, the railgun was brought to mind and equipped with ships. In the WWII and even WWII, this is an advantage over the barrel artillery. And in front of the same RCC? Yes, no.
  9. Graz
    Graz 20 December 2017 11: 39
    0
    [/ quote] Thus, the failure of individual ambitious projects, causing some damage to the budget and defense, still does not lead to fatal consequences for the development of the US armed forces as a whole. Negative experience indicates the real prospects of certain ideas, and the accumulated knowledge is used in new projects. However, all these failures lead to unjustified expenses, delay the rearmament of the army and, as a result, prove to be useful for the "probable opponents" of the United States. Other countries, including Russia, should take American successes and failures into account when drawing up new plans for the development of their own armed forces. [Quote]


    That's right, therefore, instead of throwing money away, our intelligence should have its people in the Department of Advanced Development of the United States Department of Defense. so that the right moment, the right information is left for us, it saves a lot of money and time
  10. Ural resident
    Ural resident 20 December 2017 11: 58
    0
    Somehow at the junction of the 80-90s they wrote about the development of beam weapons, in particular for the destruction of anti-ship missiles. It’s interesting - are they working on it now or has it also turned out to be futile? ...
  11. BAI
    BAI 20 December 2017 12: 08
    0
    Most recently, the results of firing in the Battle of Jutland (18–25 km) were considered at the military academy. Accuracy is not pleasing. Uncontrolled blank 100 km? I think that 100 km will be worse, despite the new equipment.
    1. shuravi
      shuravi 20 December 2017 12: 33
      0
      Naturally. Nobody has yet canceled the turbulence of the atmosphere.
  12. Disorder
    Disorder 20 December 2017 12: 30
    +1
    Baaalshomu budget - Baaalsh sawmills.
  13. KKND
    KKND 20 December 2017 15: 16
    0
    I have nothing to do with the design idea, but if you think about it, before you build any kind of engineering structure, you can calculate everything on paper.
    Now the question is: what did they consider?
    Why build something when you can "figure it out" on the "paper" will work out or not, taking into account modern technologies.
    This is much cheaper and more practical, and the nonsense about the "new technologies" that have appeared during the implementation of projects is left to the students, the respected Ryabov Kirill.
  14. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 20 December 2017 16: 40
    +1
    Yes, one more thing. The article strikes with a monstrous scientific knowledge. Take only one paragraph:
    In 1993, an experienced plasma rail gun was built at the Phillips laboratory operated by the United States Air Force. She could heat 2 mg gas to temperatures of the order of 1010 ° K and form a ring with a diameter of 1 m from the plasma. The kinetic energy of the plasma ejected through the barrel of a particular design reached 8-10 MJ. The tests showed that a small plasma cloud is capable of inflicting the most serious mechanical and thermal damage to the target object. Radiated electromagnetic pulse could hit electronic devices.

    I do not know where this text comes from and how true it is that the Phillips laboratory is under the authority of the US Air Force, and how difficult it is to heat the 2 gas milligram to the temperature 1010 ° K (736,85 ° C), and whether the plasma ring will be diameter 1 m, and whether the kinetic energy of the plasma emitted through the barrel of a special design, reaching 8-10 MJ, is high.
    Rummaged in the reference books and found
    that the energy required to heat 2-x liters of water from 20 to 100 ° C = 5 MJ. This means that 2 milligrams of gas can be able to heat up to 100 ° C 4 liters of water. Very cool. But is it possible to believe everything said in the article?
    1. Falcon5555
      Falcon5555 20 December 2017 17: 14
      +3
      First off - 30 liters! Do not know how to boil water - a shame on your Israel (joke). Differently - 10 MJ, this is an 1 kg projectile dispersed to 4.5 km / s. Not so weak!
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 20 December 2017 17: 21
        0
        Quote: Falcon5555
        First off - 30 liters! Do not know how to boil water - a shame on your Israel (joke). Differently - 10 MJ, this is an 1 kg projectile dispersed to 4.5 km / s. Not so weak!

        I repent, sprinkle ashes on my head! hi A “normal” person can easily imagine 1 a kilogram, 10 meters, well, in a pinch, 100 watts. However, 10 MJ, you see, this is already the limit. request
        1. Falcon5555
          Falcon5555 20 December 2017 17: 33
          +4
          I repent, sprinkle ashes on my head!

          The first time I see you repent, and even "with ashes"! laughing For this, this site could produce me into Internet generals. laughing
          1. A. Privalov
            A. Privalov 20 December 2017 18: 58
            0
            Quote: Falcon5555
            I repent, sprinkle ashes on my head!

            The first time I see you repent, and even "with ashes"! laughing For this, this site could produce me into Internet generals. laughing

            Where and when did I not admit my mistake? fellow
            1. Falcon5555
              Falcon5555 21 December 2017 02: 01
              0
              I can not indicate where and when you did NOT admit your mistake, although I saw something controversial, but the question, if you look literally, is not quite that. Where and when did you repent with ashes, or without it, or at least just PRESENTED a mistake? All are mistaken. Give a link, pliz.
              1. A. Privalov
                A. Privalov 21 December 2017 09: 51
                0
                Quote: Falcon5555
                I can not indicate where and when you did NOT admit your mistake, although I saw something controversial, but the question, if you look literally, is not quite that. Where and when did you repent with ashes, or without it, or at least just PRESENTED a mistake? All are mistaken. Give a link, pliz.

                Now, I also don’t remember exactly. But I will keep in mind the next time, be sure to send you a reference. hi
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 21 December 2017 01: 44
        0
        Quote: Falcon5555
        Do not know how to boil water - a shame on your Israel (a joke

        And what is there to boil? In Israel, it’s hot itself boil! wink
  15. Old26
    Old26 20 December 2017 20: 49
    +1
    Quote: avt
    Yes, I was ready to conduct full-scale tests in space, on the recessed Gorbi ,, Scythian. "

    It was impossible to carry out anything on the recessed SKIFE. It was a demo layout. Only the third building should have been equipped with a "Stiletto" - a standard laser.

    Quote: avt
    So the cartoons about the SDI were drawn beautiful, but in the USSR they really did the job.

    The Americans also not only drew cartoons (for people) but also carried out work on the same laser theme. The first laser tests on the Titan stage were almost at the end of the 70s. "Escalibur" went to full-scale tests. And the tests were carried out at a test site in Nevada in the mine.

    Quote: avt
    By the way, in confirmation of my words, even at EBN, a naturalized American, former director of IKI Sagdeev, came. With the proposal ,, to share "with his new homeland something else under the sauce - ,, joint missile defense." I was very indignant, and on camera - ,, What do they offer the S-300 !? Something newer is needed. "

    And what was something newer than the S-300. Yes, and the S-300 can hardly be called a missile defense system

    Quote: avt
    The poplite did not roll even a millimeter - First of all, GLONAS / GPS, the late Chertok (if the name says something) suggested that it be Gorbatom’s comrades who did it in the USSR in terms of conversion, and Gorb offered to rivet the pots. When Buran flew and landed on autopilot and when did the X-37? (By the way, again about Berezhnoy and Glissad ") Well and about

    In fact, GLONASS satellites did not offer Gorbi. By that time they (GLONASS satellites) had already flown THREE YEARS. The first of the satellites of this series was launched on 12.10.1982/XNUMX/XNUMX. Almost a month before Brezhnev’s death

    Quote: KKND
    Indeed, if they were not brought to iron, then nothing tragic, but if millions were spent on them, then it is very tragic. To invest in engineering nonsense means to destroy the country's defenses.

    Well, we spent, for example, a certain number of millions on the Grach or Spear-R program. But in any case, even after spending a certain amount of money, they got some kind of result. positive or negative does not matter. A negative result is also a result.

    Quote: Town Hall
    Quote: Old26
    The development of countries, scientific schools, in fact, was approximately at the same level


    Controversially ... more than

    Is debatable? What, someone was ten steps ahead of the others?
    1. KKND
      KKND 20 December 2017 20: 57
      0
      Quote: Old26
      Well, we spent, for example, a certain number of millions on the Grach or Spear-R program. But in any case, even after spending a certain amount of money, they got some kind of result. positive or negative doesn't matter

      Listen, you’re kind of smart, I don’t know anything about the Rook or Spear-R program. But tell me why spend 500 million on a prototype? I understand that the theory is one thing, and the practice is completely different, but the student can calculate the rate of fire of the railgun when designing. This is not an ekranoplan, with not calculated aerodynamics (the mat of the apparatus of turbulent vortices is still missing). Same thing with lasers.
    2. Town Hall
      Town Hall 20 December 2017 21: 26
      0
      Quote: Old26
      Quote: Town Hall
      Quote: Old26
      The development of countries, scientific schools, in fact, was approximately at the same level
      Controversially ... more than
      Is debatable? What, someone was ten steps ahead of the others?




      Well ... with rare and insignificant exceptions, the USSR has always essentially lagged behind the United States in all areas of economic, industrial, scientific, technological
      Moreover, the lag progressed. In particular, in the arms race of the USSR it was always catching up. All developments are our answer to Chamberlain on this or that type of Amer’s weapon. And almost always the answer was worse than the original.

      And this is in the military sphere. In the civilian sphere, they were not even 10 steps behind.
      1. Locksmith
        Locksmith 24 December 2017 18: 09
        0
        Quote: Town Hall
        Well ... with rare and insignificant exceptions, the USSR has always essentially lagged behind the United States in all areas of economic, industrial, scientific, technological

        Well, to be honest to the end - this laser took one person to the amers in the 90s, he decided to bend so to speak and immigrated, the gandonio is not a good person.
  16. KKND
    KKND 20 December 2017 23: 38
    0
    Shahno,
    Excuse me, it’s not for me to tell you what to do. I myself love to touch, especially the cheers-patriots, though in the process I try to teach them, but these are exclusively my "quacks"
  17. Sergey-8848
    Sergey-8848 25 December 2017 20: 30
    0
    All attempts to surpass an opponent are not based on something very new. Technological breakthroughs in one place are compensated by the need for extensive development and spreading over areas that are not yet occupied.
  18. shonsu
    shonsu 1 January 2018 16: 03
    0
    About the railgun. Sub-caliber tanks fire at an initial speed of 1500-1800m / s. This is 4.5-5.5M, but their shells do not fly either 150km or even 50km. Why? Someone is lying somewhere.