Military Review

Russian 5 generation fighter: the best in the world?

110
What are the features of the 5 generation fighter compared to previous generations? The one who had the opportunity to make a comparison on personal experience, the honored test pilot of the Russian Federation, the hero of Russia Sergey Bogdan, who first took the T-50 into the air and performed the main volume of tests on this machine, can best tell about it.


What is the fundamental difference between the 5 th and 4 th generation fighters in terms of piloting?

Compared to the 4 generation aircraft, such as the Su-27 or the MiG-29, the T-50 has noticeably easier handling. Previously, in piloting combat aircraft, a lot depended on the pilot. It was the pilot who, by operating the control stick, the engine control lever (RUD), had to withstand the flight modes: do not exceed the angle of attack to dangerous values, overload. In those days, the load on the controls and the amount of deviation of the knobs were of fundamental importance. The pilot could feel kinesthetically, literally with his whole body, the limits for which he could not go beyond control. Now, the integrated control system automatically withstands these modes, and there is no need to “tighten” the controls so much, because with vigorous maneuvering that 5 generation airplanes can perform, piloting can turn into a very energy-intensive process. It is worth noting that on Russian generation fighters 4 ++ (Su-35) and 4 + (Su-30CM), the efforts on the controls were already significantly reduced compared to Su-27 and piloting became much more comfortable. Externally, the Su-35 is practically indistinguishable from the Su-27. In fact, these are radically different planes both in controllability, and in maneuverability, and in many other indicators. But when the pilots mastered the Su-35, they easily retrained and gave the car only enthusiastic ratings. There is no reason to believe that the transition to T-50 from the point of view of piloting will be more difficult.

And if we talk about the physical condition of the pilots - do you need additional training for the transition to T-50?

Yes, the requirements for physical training for pilots of 5 generation machines are higher. The fact is that 4 generation airplanes could go to 9 g overload, but this peak mode lasted no more than 1 − 1,5 s. Further, with such an overload, the frontal resistance sharply increased, the speed of the aircraft fell, and with it the overload. However, 4 ++ and 5 generation fighter aircraft have significantly more powerful engines, and, as a result, can withstand 9 g for a much longer time — for example, for one or two minutes. And the entire time period the pilot must be in good shape and control the situation. Here, of course, a very serious attitude to physical training is required.



5 generation is new functionality, new weapon systems. Will the pilot be more difficult to manage with all these systems?

Yes, the load on the pilot as an operator grows significantly. The nomenclature of weapons of the 4-th generation did not go beyond a dozen. The pilot was required to master three operations: work on the ground, work on the air controlled weapons (several types of missiles) and work on the air by unmanaged means (shooting from a cannon). The nomenclature of weapons T-50 is close to fifty completely different means with different principles of guidance. Television-guided weapons, radar aiming at sea and land targets ... Each type of weapon has its own information support, its own indicators. And that's not all - the pilot can still manage a whole group of aircraft. While conducting his battle, he must assign tasks for subordinate crews.

It was necessary to develop such algorithms for issuing information so that the pilot could read it correctly and make intelligent decisions. Only the work of scientists from the Institute of Space Medicine, together with designers, test pilots, military pilots, led to the fact that the algorithms were optimized, the control field became non-conflicting. But still, the burden on the pilot is enormous. Therefore, on airplanes of new generations, the task of piloting is on the whole secondary. When performing aiming, the pilot can be distracted from piloting, throwing the control stick even with the autopilot turned off. The aircraft’s automatics “know” that the machine is not controlled, and if the fighter is, for example, in roll and descent mode, the plane removes the roll and goes into horizontal flight. The main thing is gun control.

Is it true that future generation combat aircraft will be unmanned?

A pilot does not exist to be heroic and receive rewards. Its main function is to carry out a combat mission. If a particular combat mission can be performed without human intervention, it means that the pilot will be replaced by automation, especially since a manned aircraft is by definition more expensive than a drone, and you cannot risk the life of a highly qualified pilot without special need. Another thing is that the transition to unmanned combat Aviation will not happen simultaneously. UAVs will gradually be transferred to certain functions (reconnaissance, additional reconnaissance, striking). At first, mixed groups will fight in the sky. A pilot in a manned aircraft will control a group of UAVs and set tasks for them. Recall that at first people hunted without assistance, drove the beast on their own, but then they tamed the dogs, and the dogs were given the functions associated with the greatest risk. This will also happen in combat aviation, until artificial intelligence finally crowds out a person, and the pilot turns into a ground operator.

Sky. Person. Fighter

The operation of the 5 multi-generation fighter (MFI) puts a person in conditions of an extreme level of overloads - physical, psychological, informational. No wonder they say that the MFI will be the last manned aircraft of this class. Next will be followed by even more steep aircraft, in which it will be unsafe for a person to be, and simply contraindicated.

The 5 IFI generation is conceived and implemented as a “network soldier” of the C4I system (Computers, Command, Control, Communications, Intelligence). Essentially, C4I is a global system of coordinated group activities, but in it, despite intelligent computer technologies, the main crucial element remains the person: he can understand the situation, make decisions and execute them himself.

And this is in the conditions of not only the beyond information, but also physical and psychological loads, too. Overloading under 10 g becomes the usual maneuvering mode. The aircraft sometimes takes on unusual spatial positions: it can even hang in a fixed motionless sky. This can also be attributed to lateral overloads during flat lateral maneuvers, which we have not encountered before. All these new phenomena began to be observed in aviation after the aircraft received a system of all-view thrust vector control of the engine - UHT, from which it acquired a new quality of super-maneuverable "tough", in English terminology (agility) aircraft. And agility-planes can fly only "agile" agility-pilots.



The solution is an effective interactive anthropocentric interface. He must provide the pilot with the opportunity to cope with the surrounding extreme, when staying in a state of psychological stress and working with outrageous amounts of information with a lack of time become commonplace for the person sitting in the cabin.

The 5 generation fighter cockpit is a “glass cockpit”, similar to the cabins of many modern aircraft. But its information and control field (IUP) refers to a new type. Instead of a set of multifunctional indicators, it uses a single touch-sensitive interactive screen that occupies the entire front dashboard of the cab.

All necessary information from on-board avionics, as well as video information from on-board sensors, supplemented by sighting and flight symbolism, is displayed on the information windows of this screen. Working with the screen facilitates the presentation of information in color "picture" formats that are understandable and visual for a person and are clearly quickly perceived. The large screen size, and these are 500 x 200 mm in F-35 and 610 x 230 mm in Su-35C and T-50, is easily covered by the standard 500-700 mm viewing distance. Binocular support and high-definition images contribute to the creation of the effect of the presence inside the event, known from domestic HD television.

The latter is very important for the pilot as the leader of the network task, and not just as an operator with onboard sensors. That is why all the information is displayed on the screen in a pre-processed form and appears only at the right moments, which is convenient for a person and significantly increases timely situational awareness. A special place in the IUP cockpit is occupied by the helmet-mounted target designation and indication system (NTSI), which also puts the pilot inside the event.

All the necessary information in convenient for work binocular forms is displayed on the helmet visor and always, despite the head turns, is in front of the pilot's eyes, for which the position of his head is constantly monitored. The helmet has the function of augmented reality, so the pilot can, as it were, see through the cockpit and be more informed about what is happening around the aircraft.

These helmets are already on the heads of the F-35 pilots - this is HMDS Gen II "God's eye" of the American company VSI. And soon they will be among European pilots: Striker II helmet is manufactured by the British company BAE Systems. Similar developments are underway for our Su-35C and T-50.

Features of the impact on the body of the pilot IFI 5-th generation

Slip and sharp acceleration and braking at high angles of attack cause new, previously unknown illusions, leading to disorientation, discomfort and nausea.

Maneuvering with an overload of 10 g leads to a loss of spatial orientation and the appearance of visual-vestibular illusions when perceiving behind the cockpit space: overloads affect the vestibular apparatus non-standardly, and in response it forms sensations of a seeming vertical. The inherent mechanism of spatial orientation stops working.

Flying with high overloads is exacerbated by related problems: deterioration of visual functions, injuries of the back muscles, ligaments and vertebrae, physical discomfort and pain.

The lack of time in speed battles with instant transitions from one spatial state to another causes, as pilots say, a feeling when “you feel rather than understand what is happening”, which is also a new psychological phenomenon.

The speed of air combat can cause feelings of cognitive dissonance when working with highly dynamic formats of cabin displays, or even loss of information contact with them.

Conducting combat in the tight boundaries of the airspace with sharp changes in the angular velocities of the line of sight of the target requires intense head turns in a helmet with an aiming system, which gives rise to additional illusions of diving, tailing and roll, depending on head movements.

The added reality on the helmet visor, which makes it possible to see “through the cockpit”, causes the illusion of independent flight outside the aircraft, which makes it difficult to work with cabin controls.
Author:
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  1. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 19 November 2017 15: 15 New
    10
    All this is good, but what does the given MiG-21 and F-14 photo have to do with the text?
    1. Pan_hrabio
      Pan_hrabio 19 November 2017 15: 37 New
      12
      Plus, what does the article have to do with its name?

      Russian 5 generation fighter: the best in the world?
    2. vik669
      vik669 24 November 2017 19: 55 New
      +1
      The MiG-21 and F-14 are past and the 5th generation Russian fighter is a bright but still troubled future. F-22 and F-35 are hundreds and the bright future is still a dozen with some kind of engine. F-22 and F-35 have a lot of defects and comments, the SU-57 seems to have no because there are no planes either ...! Hatred and cheers-patriotism does not lead to victories !!!
      1. Shahno
        Shahno 24 November 2017 20: 03 New
        +3
        I have a direct relationship to the f xnumx based on the non-invasive. What can I say work is work. Techies will understand. And you need to force your project with pack fa. And as quickly as possible. Here is such a friendly Jewish council.
  2. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 19 November 2017 15: 15 New
    +3
    Good afternoon: study, study and study! fellow
    1. GRF
      GRF 19 November 2017 16: 41 New
      +2
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Good afternoon: study, study and study! fellow

      To kill ... ???
      Sadness ..
      1. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 19 November 2017 16: 51 New
        14
        Quote: GRF
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Good afternoon: study, study and study! fellow

        To kill ... ???
        Sadness ..

        Schoolboy, in order for a country to live, we need people who know how to protect this country.
        Available? fool
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 19 November 2017 17: 07 New
          15
          You should at least read the article before throwing a post. smile
          It says that it is much more difficult to master a new plane than the previous ones.
          Because of the much greater capabilities and more information and other served than in the 4th generation.
          And it’s not the test pilots or the Swifts to fly, but the usual ones
          graduates of schools. Hence my desire to "study, study ...."
          We started to chase pilots in special simulators (standing like a plane)
          before the first 5th generation aircraft arrived.
          1. abc_alex
            abc_alex 20 November 2017 01: 02 New
            +2
            I think that when aviation switched from piston to jet aircraft, when cannon weapons were replaced by missile weapons, when fighters became fighter-bombers, when unguided weapons were replaced by controlled ones, the situation was exactly the same. When pilots are trained as part of a technical concept, this creates a training technology, a kind of conveyor. When a qualitative change in technology occurs, the conveyor stops until the "streaming" teaching methods are developed again, until the new requirements become standard, and not "revolutionary". And again, stream-based assembly training for pilots will begin. Including using simulators "standing like an airplane."

            By the way, can you tell us about what "much greater opportunities and more information" F-35 are you talking about? What fundamentally new can he? Compared, for example, with the French Rafal (RBE-2AA radar), the F-16E / F Desert Falcon of the UAE Air Force (these fighters are equipped with AN / APG-80 radars).
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 20 November 2017 10: 55 New
              +1
              This is already listed in this article. That is, it will be in the Su-57.
              All of the above is in the F-35. 360 degree pilot awareness
              "without eyes", network awareness with ground and air without walkie-talkie, etc ...
              1. abc_alex
                abc_alex 20 November 2017 22: 00 New
                +1
                But is there no such thing in the Su-35? His radar can track targets in both the front and rear hemispheres automatically.
                By the way, F-35 and F-22 do not have any network-centricity. She only is planned in the future someday. Especially with the ground, and even without walkie-talkie. Which, in my opinion, is generally from the category of "oriental tales." The fact that they do not have specialized antennas for communication does not mean that they do not have walkie-talkies. Just one antenna for all cases of radiation and reception. What does not add functionality to the aircraft, just changes the design.

                My opinion is that neither Raptor nor Lightning have any jump-like growth. There is a normal process of evolutionary development of fighter aircraft, during which all the tendencies of increasing the load on the pilot, which began from the time when biplane pilots received machine guns on cars, are preserved. And the fact that some of the marketers in the US came up with the idea of ​​inventing the “fifth generation” is not making a revolution in the aircraft industry.

                Yes, sometime fighter jets will become unmanned. But most likely not because of the “eyeless awareness”, but because of the increase in permissible overloads when maneuvering a machine that goes beyond human capabilities.
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 21 November 2017 11: 21 New
                  +1
                  "By the way, F-35 and F-22 have no network-centricity" ////

                  The F-22 does not, but the F-35 has it.

                  "that no Raptor nor Lightning have any jump-like growth." ///

                  The F-22 only has a long (thousands of kilometers) cruiser overdrive (1.6 MAX), and the F-35 has a whole set: 1) a single computer for everything that is on the plane 2) open software architecture - for the first time in military aviation 3) network-centricity
                  1. abc_alex
                    abc_alex 21 November 2017 17: 31 New
                    +6
                    Network-centricity
                    neither one nor the other. Only stated at both, really does not work. If only because there is no one on earth yet to provide this network-centricity. And in the air, it is useless for them by definition, because stealth aircraft simply have nothing to transmit to each other if they do not include radars. And if they include, then they will have no time. Perhaps sometime in the future, something will be done, with the next upgrade for an insignificant 50-60 million dollars :).
                    What you call network centricity and consider the F-35 innovation to be implemented in the USSR is still based on the MiG-31 - Su-27 pair. In the role of a flying radar, the MiG acted as the carrier of the Su-27 weapon. The hardware base was the simplest. And now the MiG-31 link can actually, and not in advertising booklets, conduct information exchange in real time, controlling with its VFAR radius similar to AWACS. What is now called the buzzword “network-centricity” used to be called a data exchange system and was implemented long before even the Raptor took to the air, not to mention Lightning. A data exchange system is not a feature of the “fifth generation”, it is a normal development of communications.
                    By the way, if you don’t focus on fighters, then the Granit missiles are a classic example of a network-centric system. Implemented long before the appearance of the Raptors, even in the drawings.

                    Cruising
                    supersonic is no more revolutionary than supersonic per se. Weapons can not be used on supersonic Raptor. Yes, and I would like to find out in more detail under what conditions this cruising supersonic is achieved. It is possible that only without external suspension and with half the bomb load. The US military industry is famous for such chips.
                    By itself, cruising supersonic is realized long before. Concord and Tu-144 flew in this mode, there is nothing new here. Tu-128 and MiG-25 flew from combat aircraft on cruising supersonic. Shtatovtsev mainly scouts in particular the SR-71 "Blackbird" he has 2 Mach cruising speed. The raptor is not here in the first place.

                    Single computer
                    for everything? And what's revolutionary? Do you think replacing a network of computers with a mainframe with terminals is a revolution? In my opinion this is just a different approach, no more.
                    The military-industrial complex occasionally becomes infatuated with the "new toy." Now one of these toys is "a single computer for everything." So far no one has proved, even that it is good, not that it is better or even revolutionary. But, EMNIP on modern passenger aircraft, the concept of a central computer "for everything" is no longer new. Although I may be wrong. You do not know?
                    And there is such a machine as the Yak-130 ... :)

                    open software architecture

                    Are you sure the software architecture is open there? If so, where can I download the description of the API and SDK? :)
                    You mean the open architecture of avionics, huh? So again I will disappoint you, this is also not a chip of the "fifth generation". MiG-29 in the modification of SMT has the same open architecture. And mass-produced since 2004. The avionics of the MiG-29K are built on the same ideology, and the MiG-35 as a designer is generally an open architecture in itself, it can be equipped with dozens of different ways, choosing everything from avionics to the engine.
                    With open architecture, the Su-30MKI and Su-35 fly.


                    So, having carefully examined all the advertising statements of the US military-industrial complex regarding their crafts, you inevitably come to the conclusion that there is nothing revolutionary in them, except for the price. Here is the price - yes, the price is revolutionary without a doubt :) It was for its justification that the US marketers came up with this fifth generation trick. But technically there is nothing extraordinary either in the Raptor or in the Lightning, the normal development of existing technical concepts.
                    Rather, Lightning has really breakthrough solutions. But these are very technical things about which they are not written in advertising booklets.
                    1. voyaka uh
                      voyaka uh 21 November 2017 18: 50 New
                      +1
                      Well, then Russia has nothing to worry about. Can even stop
                      develop a Su-57, why spend money? Indeed, on the Su-35, MiG-31, in your words, everything you need for modern combat is already there - and for a long time.
                      States throw show-offs, for the sake of profits, and Russia already has reliable modern aircraft. thanks for the info hi
                      1. abc_alex
                        abc_alex 23 November 2017 17: 45 New
                        +2
                        Yes, do not be upset. Well, there is no revolution, but there is development. Fighters are being improved and directions are preserved from generation to generation. And the fact that you became a victim of propaganda of the state military-industrial complex, well, well, the staff in this are the greatest masters in the world. So the Su-57 will be further developed, but nothing revolutionary will be in it. Evolution :)
                    2. NN52
                      NN52 21 November 2017 20: 52 New
                      +8
                      Well, a little bit wrong .... Of course, we can throw them with hats, but ...
                      The ADF was only 31 ... And he, like Link 16, did not shine. The experiment with 27 did not go.
                      Not a link, but a detachment.
                      And why do you think now such a full house with the first flight of A 100? //
                      And otherwise I agree with you ..
                      1. abc_alex
                        abc_alex 23 November 2017 17: 50 New
                        0
                        Thank you.
                        About the experiment with the Su-27, I read that it was not there that the experiment did not go, but the experiment itself was improvised. No?
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. The comment was deleted.
      2. vik669
        vik669 24 November 2017 20: 11 New
        0
        To kill ... ??? Yes, man is rational cattle!
  3. kojak
    kojak 19 November 2017 15: 39 New
    +8
    How can it be the best if it is not produced? There are only prototypes. Ten years later, one can discuss - with a familiar result, however - it is not the best, but not now.
    1. nPuBaTuP
      nPuBaTuP 19 November 2017 15: 52 New
      +2
      Of course your ovskie planes are the best ..... who would argue ...
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 19 November 2017 16: 08 New
        12
        I am also a patriot, but WHAT can you oppose to your opponent? Yes, f-22 and f-35 are already flying in the USA. Stuffing "cones", treated for childhood diseases, but what can we oppose ?! Article with MiG-21? !!
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 19 November 2017 16: 26 New
          +6
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          Yes, f-22 and f-35 are already flying in the USA.

          Both of these aircraft do not reach the level of the fifth generation, they are four generations with pluses, no matter how the American propaganda puffed up.
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          Stuffing "cones", treated for childhood diseases, but what can we oppose ?!

          "Children's" diseases are embedded in the design and ideology of application, here treatment will not help, in the end they will abandon them and create something else.
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          and what can we oppose ?!

          And we can oppose the car, which may appear later, but it will still be a step backward, and not to the side like the Americans.

          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          I am also a patriot, but WHAT can you oppose to your opponent?

          Nuclear weapon.
          1. Cartalon
            Cartalon 19 November 2017 16: 44 New
            +1
            Nuclear weapons are a cool argument in the dispute, but first you need to make sure that you don’t argue with your neighbor, or you might know if you can hurt.
          2. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 19 November 2017 18: 27 New
            +6
            "which may appear later, but it will still be a step backward, and not to the side like the Americans." ////

            I hope all the same, that not a step back. stop That would be too much ...
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 19 November 2017 20: 30 New
              0
              Quote: voyaka uh
              I hope all the same, that not a step back.

              Everything can be - and it happened.
          3. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 20 November 2017 02: 10 New
            +2
            Quote: Setrac
            Both of these aircraft do not reach the level of the fifth generation, they are four generations with pluses, no matter how the American propaganda puffed up.

            Oh my goodness Stupid Americans 28 years old make the wrong aircraft of the 5th generation. What to take from them!
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 20 November 2017 18: 36 New
              0
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              Stupid Americans 28 years make the wrong planes

              sympathize with them ....
        2. nPuBaTuP
          nPuBaTuP 19 November 2017 17: 09 New
          +2
          why was it necessary to give birth to sick children? .... did they have euthanasia allowed? ... and kill the f-22 and the second freak f-35 ...
        3. Okolotochny
          Okolotochny 19 November 2017 17: 47 New
          +7
          Fly then fly. And you give one hundred percent that they are the best?
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 19 November 2017 18: 46 New
            +2
            Quote: Okolotochny
            Fly then fly.

            But not always.
            In general, the history of deliveries of these two vehicles to the troops is uncharacteristic even for the American military-industrial complex, which has always been “imprisoned” exclusively for profit. They themselves outdid in a cynical attitude to their own military.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 19 November 2017 19: 09 New
              +3
              "They themselves outdid in a cynical attitude to their own military." ////

              I mean, many pilots crashed on these aircraft? belay
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 19 November 2017 19: 27 New
                +4
                I mean, in the style of "grab bags, the station leaves" (c) they delivered absolutely raw vehicles to the troops.
                Which, of course, was very profitable, because treating "childhood diseases" not of several experimental machines, but of heaps of serial ones, the action is much more profitable.
                I cited this example below; the American aircraft industry is not a more thorough example of setting up "civilian vehicles" in civilian vehicles. Probably, for jambs like those that happen with the F-22 and F-35, you can suffer financially, right up to the complete loss of the market.
                Well, American military pilots ... apparently they also have in their charters about "persistently overcome difficulties and deprivation of military service" ... For example, hypoxia
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 19 November 2017 23: 38 New
                  +2
                  , "for shoals similar to those that happen with the F-22 and F-35, you can suffer financially, up to a complete loss of the market." ////

                  Really?
                  So far, they have completely seized the global market for military aircraft. Typhoon in flight, Rafal - single sales, like Gripen.
                  What do they take? The rich - F-35, poorer than F-16, F-15, F-18 - the last “Blocks”. The third world buys cheaper Russian (not bad at all).
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 20 November 2017 07: 54 New
                    +2
                    Quote: voyaka uh
                    Really?
                    So far, they have completely seized the global market for military aircraft. Typhoon in flight, Rafal - single sales, like Gripen.

                    Here I am about that !!!
                    If the Dreamliner Boeing 787 during a regular flight with passengers, when crossing the date line, “had the electronics that control the fuel and navigation systems, as well as, partially, communications, failed,” they would definitely lose the lion’s share orders. And they would have had a lot of unpleasant conversations with government agencies responsible for air traffic safety.

                    And the manufacturers of the F-22 and F-35 easily get away with it.
                    1. voyaka uh
                      voyaka uh 20 November 2017 11: 40 New
                      +2
                      You drew attention to the existing reality:
                      The quality of civil aviation is higher than the quality of military. Everywhere.
                      Otherwise it can not be. The fall of one liner - 200 corpses.
                      The fall of one fighter - one catapulted pilot.
                      Therefore, do not hesitate to push dozens of innovations on military aircraft
                      at the same time, and on civilians - very gradually, in turn.
                      In the military commissar - a race (!) Of weapons, in the civilian - a careful struggle for the market.
                      1. viktorch
                        viktorch 20 November 2017 13: 03 New
                        0
                        Well, what is there? on the military all advanced solutions and run in, it can’t be otherwise.
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 20 November 2017 13: 19 New
                        +2
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        The fall of one liner - 200 corpses.
                        The fall of one fighter - one catapulted pilot.

                        ... with a happy coincidence, the catapulted pilot. What, in fact, was required to prove income at the cost of the life and health of pilots. (bailout is not at all safe, it’s like with a bulletproof vest, "albeit in intensive care, but remained alive")

                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        Therefore, do not hesitate to push dozens of innovations on military aircraft

                        Not bringing them to mind is not profitable, more profitable "treatment of diseases" is already in the process.

                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        In the military commissar - arms race (!)

                        In the case of these aircraft, a race with themselves? Or is it for astronomical income?
        4. Vlad.by
          Vlad.by 19 November 2017 22: 51 New
          +2
          Yes, it has long been proposed. Get on. Su-35 in almost all respects is equal to the Raptor, with the exception of stealth and the presence of AFAR. But his PFAR allows you to do the same. Albeit with slight restrictions
          Moreover, in some parameters (range, super maneuverability, OLS), he surpasses the opponent. In the near future, until the t-50 became a serial Su-57, this is quite enough. By the number of new aircraft, the Su-35 is compared with the Raptor, which by no means are all combat-ready. And the Penguin ... the fact that there are more than two hundred of them does not make him a fighter. Anyway, bye. On alarm, in which case, the penguin will not do the weather. The grenade is the wrong system. In order to do something, we need very specific gestures, which for our intelligence will not go unnoticed. There is still time. Including to bring the T-50.
        5. NEXUS
          NEXUS 19 November 2017 23: 13 New
          +3
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          I am also a patriot, but WHAT can you oppose to your opponent?

          We contrast the SU-30 and SU-35 today. And these our planes are no worse than the Raptor, and maybe better.
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          Stuffing "cones", treated for childhood diseases

          Errors in design and engineering cannot be corrected by any modernization.
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          and what can we oppose ?!

          Our Dryers 30th and 35th are no worse and our MO buys them without delay. Will go to the SU-57 series, they will also buy it. But for the next 10 years the main heavy IFIs will be the SU-35 ... while the main heavy We have an MFI SU-30, which more than once beat American cars, even the most advanced ones. Take a look at the statistics of 13 military exercises with Indians and Malaysians.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 20 November 2017 02: 13 New
            +2
            Quote: NEXUS
            SU-30 and SU-35 ... no worse than the Raptor, and maybe better.

            In a cannon fight. But in general - analogues of the Needle.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 20 November 2017 10: 40 New
              +3
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              In a cannon fight. But in general - analogues of the Needle.

              Well, yes ... in order to write this, you first need to look at 13 meetings of Hindus and Malaysians with mattresses. Maybe then such nonsense would be written and got sick.
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 21 November 2017 00: 02 New
                0
                Quote: NEXUS
                To write this, you first need to look at 13 meetings of Indians and Malaysians with mattresses

                Well, take a look. Find among them the standard for Zh5 mode, the first saw - the first shot - the first hit. And not something like
                - Two fighters fought a classic battle in the horizontal plane at an altitude of 4600 m above the range Grik (Grik), Perak (Perak). “Mogwai” and “Smegs” (the call sign of the CMS operator) piloted the latest and most sophisticated multipurpose fighter of the Malaysian Air Force - Sukhoi Su-30MKM “SuperFlanker”. The nozzles of the two cradles of the AL-31FP shifted to a crazy angle, and the Mogwai began to lift the nose of its fighter in the direction of the central part of the Raptor fuselage.
            2. Vlad.by
              Vlad.by 20 November 2017 14: 26 New
              0
              Outline the circle of the "whole", plz. What are their analogues?
              2 wings, 2 engines, one pilot and radar?
    2. GRF
      GRF 19 November 2017 16: 35 New
      +1
      Quote: kojak
      How can it be the best if it is not produced? There are only prototypes. Ten years later, one can discuss - with a familiar result, however - it is not the best, but not now.

      You can run away from planet earth, because Russians already have a better prototype ...)
      Aaaaaaaaa)
  4. Curious
    Curious 19 November 2017 16: 29 New
    +1
    Judging by the question mark in the title, the authors of the last forces restrain themselves from not "breaking out loud cheers."
    1. Cartalon
      Cartalon 19 November 2017 16: 45 New
      0
      rather, the title was randomly chosen, it has nothing to do with the content.
  5. NN52
    NN52 19 November 2017 16: 30 New
    +8
    This is a reprint of the Popular Mechanics for October ...
    Who needs a photo, look there ... the photo there is fun made and it seems that it’s not so easy to transfer from there, apparently they transferred it ....
    Filed as an interview, but as a matter of fact, xs ...

    There are not only 21 and 57, but Amer 35 is.
  6. Jack O'Neill
    Jack O'Neill 19 November 2017 18: 13 New
    +3
    It is generally good. The only thing is that the title does not correspond to the article.
    In the article, the author describes the advantage of machines. 5-Gen, that's all.
    Article plus, and author advice to choose headlines better.)
  7. viktorch
    viktorch 19 November 2017 18: 39 New
    +6
    the best f22 is already 12 years old, and there is no reasonable reason to assume that this will change another ten years,

    I don’t understand what the authors of the article mean? retrain on a new plane is difficult? Well, it used to be like that, with what fright they compare the modernization of the 27ki -35ku with it, of course, there it’s easy to relearn, the same plane, just deeply modernized.
    in general, about nothing, the cap wrote another article about the blue color of the blue sky and the wetness of water.
    1. Jack O'Neill
      Jack O'Neill 19 November 2017 18: 44 New
      +6
      I agree!
      F-22 is already on the wing, which cannot be said about the Su-57. And it is not known when they will put the Su-57 on the wing, and whether they will put it at all ...
      Here F-22 as an interceptor fighter out of competition!
      1. viktorch
        viktorch 19 November 2017 18: 48 New
        +1
        22yku have already been upgraded more than once, it’s sincerely interesting for me to have parity with 50koy at the time of the T22 series

        even by the way about helmets for T50 displaying information on the shit, as it is not audible
      2. NN52
        NN52 19 November 2017 19: 16 New
        10
        Well started ...
        The article is in principle correct, it touches on many aspects of the new technology (I do not use the word 5th generation specifically).
        Especially in terms of overload for pilots, long and positive and negative.
        I don’t even know what to say about lateral overloads, which were previously not widely used and have not been studied much ... Look at the aerobatic flight 22 with its vertical ATS and our Su 35 (type 4 generation ...) with a normal ATS. At 22, lateral overloads are insignificant; at 35, they are beyond the pilot's ability, I don’t know how to transfer them.
        So the pilot run-in for 57 now goes to 35, today's combat pilots are 35, the first to change seats to 57.

        F 22 is no longer released, and you need to compare it with 35, so accept pzhl the truth.
        Su 35 in a couple of years will also be in our shelves 200 pcs, and for you there will be an unexpected person with ROFAR.

        And now 35 is in no way inferior to 22.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 19 November 2017 23: 21 New
          +2
          Quote: NN52
          So the pilot run-in for 57 now goes to 35, today's combat pilots are 35, the first to change seats to 57.

          That's right .. the cabs are identical.

          Quote: NN52
          F 22 is no longer released, and you need to compare it with 35, so accept pzhl the truth.

          F-35 is still a single-engine medium fighter-bomber, with more bombs than a fighter.
          Quote: NN52
          Su 35 in a couple of years will also be in our shelves 200 pcs, and for you there will be an unexpected person with ROFAR.

          ROFAR will be delivered no earlier than 20-23 years ... but it is 5-6 years, very soon.
          Quote: NN52
          And now 35 is in no way inferior to 22.

          Right. Plus, the arsenal of our cars is far more diverse. And if you think that ROFARs see such targets as a pangolin at a distance of 500 km, then with what advantage will the pangolin and the F-35 remain?
      3. not main
        not main 19 November 2017 23: 50 New
        0
        Quote: Jack O'Neill

        2
        Jack O'Nill Today, 18:44 ↑ New
        I agree!
        F-22 is already on the wing, which cannot be said about the Su-57. And it is not known when they will put the Su-57 on the wing, and whether they will put it at all ...
        Here F-22 as an interceptor fighter out of competition!

        What time! Where is the MiG-31? That's really an interceptor! 3 max tells you something?
      4. NEXUS
        NEXUS 20 November 2017 00: 30 New
        +2
        Quote: Jack O'Neill
        Here F-22 as an interceptor fighter out of competition!

        As an interceptor fighter out of competition MIG-31.
        1. Jack O'Neill
          Jack O'Neill 20 November 2017 00: 37 New
          0
          As an interceptor fighter out of competition MIG-31.

          Oh? Even the F-14D was better, not to mention the F-22.
          Where there is 31, with its maximum operational in 6 units.
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 20 November 2017 00: 41 New
            +2
            Quote: Jack O'Neill
            Oh? Even the F-14D was better, not to mention the F-22.

            Dear, do not blow bubbles. The F-14, although it would be good, but in the first it was withdrawn from service long ago (and for me it was only a worthy competitor to the 31st), and secondly, the F-22 with its ceiling of 7000 meters is, well, the same interceptor as Abrams bolide Formula 1
            1. Jack O'Neill
              Jack O'Neill 20 November 2017 02: 08 New
              0
              second, F-22 with its ceiling in 7000 meters

              what?
          2. Vlad.by
            Vlad.by 21 November 2017 08: 50 New
            +1
            Are we talking about an interceptor or an airplane to gain air superiority?
            So the F-14, with all its positive qualities, was significantly inferior to Migu and far from reaching the same F-15 as an air battle aircraft. Therefore, in the end, it was withdrawn from service, as it had no prospects in its own Air Force and Navy and did not achieve commercial success. Why compare a soft spot with a finger? In addition to a multi-channel firing system and a long-range missile of 120 km, against the background of high cost in all aspects of other advantages, this pepelats did not have, which time proved.
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 19 November 2017 18: 52 New
      +4
      Quote: viktorch
      the best f22 for 12 years now

      How can it be the “best” aircraft experiencing problems with flying through the date line?
      It is interesting why civilian liner software is licked to complete safety, and experimental rabbits are made of military pilots? Because they can’t sue for such mischief?
      1. Town Hall
        Town Hall 19 November 2017 18: 56 New
        +3
        Quote: Spade
        How can it be the “best” aircraft experiencing problems with flying through the date line?



        You collect these pearls on the sites of jokes and then make people laugh with them?
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 20 November 2017 08: 01 New
          +1
          Quote: Town Hall
          You collect these pearls on the sites of jokes

          Well, yes, it couldn’t be called a joke ... However, this was a real incident that occurred during the flight of the F-22 from Hawaiian Islands to the air force base in Okinawa.
          The best airplane, hehe ...
          But in cases when the “best airplanes” began to strangle their own pilots, I’m afraid the Americans themselves lost their score. This is also essentially an anecdotal situation.
      2. viktorch
        viktorch 19 November 2017 18: 57 New
        +3
        but he doesn’t feel the slightest problem by forcing bitches on exercises in all poses,
        jambs with on are closed elementary, more than sure that now 22ki licked.

        do you seriously think that everything is ok in our airplanes, it works like a clock, and the engineers of the same dry company don’t have to go to the airfields and finish the jambs with the local staff on the spot? Well, this is probably the only thing in the country of pink ponies.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 20 November 2017 08: 02 New
          +1
          Quote: viktorch
          jambs with on close elementary

          I agree. And why this could not be done before the delivery of aircraft to the troops? Are you in a hurry?
        2. Vlad.by
          Vlad.by 21 November 2017 08: 56 New
          0
          And how is he doing with the Mig-17? He also rapes them or tears like a Tuzik heating pad? What to take as opponents to a thirty-year-old peasant of an opponent of pre-retirement age, let’s expose our great-grandfather, he’ll certainly “win by a clear advantage”.
          Can you give data on comparing the Raptor with at least the Su-30?
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS 19 November 2017 23: 17 New
      +2
      Quote: viktorch
      the best f22 is already 12 years old, and there is no reasonable reason to assume that this will change for another ten years

      Dear, why is the lizard better than the SU-35th? Does he have less ESR? I beg you, all these tales of mattresses about a lot of zeros after a decimal point are just tales. Secondly, do you really think that our fighters do not have the support of AWACS aircraft, which perfectly see these invisibles? And the third, the "long arm" of our aircraft is longer, and soon ROFAR will replace PFAR and then the stealth technology will become completely useless.
      1. Shahno
        Shahno 19 November 2017 23: 33 New
        0
        Drlo see. Ground radars see. But to see and hit different things. Long arm, I don’t think, even by Israeli standards, ours are not inferior to 35. And Rofar, when there will be more.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 19 November 2017 23: 41 New
          +2
          Quote: Shahno
          Drlo see. Ground radars see. But see and hit different things

          You look at a new arsenal of missiles for our fighters, and then talk about how to hit ...
          Quote: Shahno
          The long arm, I do not think, even by Israeli standards is not inferior to our 35th.

          Seriously, the fact that you and the mattresses have a long arm is called a medium-range missile, dear.
          Quote: Shahno
          And Rofar, when there will be more.

          ROFAR is already undergoing the second stage of testing, of which there will be only 5. By the end of 19, they will finish. This technology is not only being developed for fighters, therefore they are tested for a long time and are being finalized. By 20-23, ROFAR will most likely begin to bet on fighter jets.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 21 November 2017 21: 47 New
            0
            Quote: NEXUS
            By 20-23, ROFAR will most likely begin to put on fighters

            Are there really people in Russia whom the native government as a whole and the military-industrial complex in particular have not yet learned to use verbs in the future tense?

            The latest news on this topic on the manufacturer’s website is dated the 16th year.
            Affordability of the project goals confirmed

            bunnies
      2. viktorch
        viktorch 20 November 2017 12: 59 New
        0
        it’s like the mattresses have much more drills, and the proposed TVD will be illuminated by just the same mattresses and not by us, therefore the same EPR for our machines is much more critical indicator, it seems that the issue is partially removed by new long-range missiles, but the same question with them, all the same, such irons are not so easy to apply.

        ps I am amazed at you, do you seriously think if the topic with erofar soars, pendants will not upgrade their cars? Even with great difficulty it is believed, besides there is a question with quantity.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 20 November 2017 14: 36 New
          +3
          Quote: viktorch
          as if mattresses have drills much more, and the proposed TVD will illuminate right through the mattresses and not us

          And now, struck by ours, we turn on our brains and look at what kind of theater is in question. In the event of a conflict, will we fight on our territory or on the territory of an adversary? All of Europe shines through our radars of different levels through ... what are you surprised at?
          Quote: viktorch
          I am amazed at you, do you seriously think if the topic with erofar soars, pendants will not upgrade their cars?

          And how? Will they invent a new paint? Or maybe the electronic warfare system is planed to counter ROFAR? Before you marvel and write stupid posts, you would first study the topic.
          1. viktorch
            viktorch 20 November 2017 16: 55 New
            0
            What is your solid data on ROFAR? Did the Führer rely on the prodigy of wunderwaffles and greatly helped the demoniac?

            and they’ll come up with paint and their own and erofar, if when they press the pends show real wonders in electronics

            Arab Israeli wars clearly showed everything with translucent radars of different levels and how such mega-defense is stitched

            you generally know how many Avaks and other drills for mattresses and their allies, any TVD including European can be enlightened through
        2. Vlad.by
          Vlad.by 20 November 2017 14: 37 New
          +2
          Enlighten through and through can Sunflower or Murmansk. Well, or modular Vitebsk. AWACS with its range of 600-700 km without interference is now baby talk. So, a regional defensive airborne radar, which, if necessary, is successfully crushed by electronic warfare.
          But they will not risk approaching closer than 350 km to the borders, since it can be very painful.
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 20 November 2017 17: 37 New
            +3
            Quote: Vlad.by
            But they will not risk approaching closer than 350 km to the borders, since it can be very painful.

            Shh, don't scare me. wink Let it broadcast .. it's even funny.
        3. Fudo
          Fudo 30 November 2017 13: 12 New
          0
          alleged TVD - in Russia. We will not see on our territory?
  8. Azkii339
    Azkii339 19 November 2017 19: 04 New
    +2
    Build, experience at least in training battles, and then say "best / not best."
  9. senima56
    senima56 19 November 2017 19: 20 New
    +7
    "The Russians, as soon as they create something, immediately call it" the best in the world! "" - Henry Ford. What is a “5th generation airplane”?!?! Do you really call those few pieces (assembled on your knee) a “5th generation airplane” ?! First, take it into service., .. then launch it in a series ... And after that, compare it with what others have!
    1. IL-18
      IL-18 19 November 2017 19: 52 New
      +3
      The article should be read, not the title. There is not about that.
    2. NEXUS
      NEXUS 19 November 2017 23: 49 New
      +3
      Quote: senima56
      Do you really call those few pieces (assembled on your knee) a “5th generation airplane” ?!

      And why not planed with an ax, dear? What is better lizard, Eurofighter or F-35 SU-30 and SU-35? In the case, can you squeeze something?
      Quote: senima56
      First, adopt it., .. then launch into the series ...

      SU-30 and SU-35 are accepted and mass-produced. And today, even some mattress professionals say that these are the best MFIs in the world.
    3. Soho
      Soho 20 November 2017 04: 29 New
      +2
      Really those few pieces (assembled on the knee) you call the "5th generation aircraft"

      you probably know better from the sofa what is going on the knee and what is not. As well as the compliance of the aircraft with the criteria of the fifth generation aircraft.
      1. Vlad.by
        Vlad.by 20 November 2017 14: 41 New
        +2
        He is broadcasting from the cinema. Sinema 56. See cartoons see. Spelling aglitsky words did not even mastered.
        Knows English at the level of a little bit.
        But there, expert, damn it ...
    4. Fudo
      Fudo 30 November 2017 13: 16 New
      0
      surprisingly, what Henry Ford did not say ... supposedly. invented yourself, or saw on a demotivator?
  10. tchoni
    tchoni 19 November 2017 20: 27 New
    0
    Do I have glitches or has this article been already six months ago? Or is it just a consonant topic?
  11. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 19 November 2017 23: 26 New
    0
    The article was earlier and I was surprised by a single display in the cockpit. Ours followed the path of Americans and Chinese ...? With the display system of everything on a widescreen display?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 20 November 2017 00: 10 New
      +1
      In general, the Su 57 has not one display, but two.
      1. NN52
        NN52 20 November 2017 09: 44 New
        +8
        This is cabin 35 ...
        57 will be with minor modifications ...
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 20 November 2017 19: 45 New
          +1
          This is just the Su 57 cabin; in the Su 35 it is narrow and the collimator sight is different
          1. NN52
            NN52 20 November 2017 20: 26 New
            +8
            Vadim237 ....

            Well, why write and photos (complete ignorance of the question !!!!) lay out what you are not in the subject ...
            Hint, 35, 35 C, 57 ....
            Well, why write the nonsense that you wrote in this message and in the subject below ....

            If you want to seem smart in this matter, better keep silent pzhl ....
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 20 November 2017 22: 38 New
              +2
              But I didn’t have to hint at the air show - I know which cabin and lantern Sushka has 35, and Su 57 may not go into the series at all, since the car turned out to be very expensive.
    2. vik669
      vik669 25 November 2017 21: 02 New
      0
      Yes, “Yours”, no matter what path they take, “We usually if we start to enter somewhere, we’ll definitely go somewhere”!
  12. aiden
    aiden 20 November 2017 00: 26 New
    0
    but in general, who comes up with the requirements for generations of aircraft?
    1. abc_alex
      abc_alex 23 November 2017 21: 16 New
      +1
      None. Before the appearance of the Raptor, no one in the world divided aircraft into generations. But it was necessary to justify the spasmodic multiple increase in the price of the F-22, and the marketers of the US military-industrial complex came up with the "fifth generation". There are no established requirements in nature. Rather, the Shtatans consider the Raptor's specifications to be well-established requirements. And impose them on others.
  13. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 20 November 2017 07: 29 New
    +1
    All necessary information from on-board avionics, as well as video information from on-board sensors, supplemented by sighting and flight symbolism, is displayed on the information windows of this screen. Working with the screen facilitates the presentation of information in color "picture" formats that are understandable and visual for a person and are clearly quickly perceived. The large screen size, and these are 500 x 200 mm in F-35 and 610 x 230 mm in Su-35C and T-50, is easily covered by the standard 500-700 mm viewing distance. Binocular support and high-definition images contribute to the creation of the effect of the presence inside the event, known from domestic HD television.
  14. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 20 November 2017 09: 46 New
    +2
    I once wrote here that potentially, the Su-57 should have turned out to be a very decent machine. However, today we hear only about a dozen flight prototypes. And the last took off just three months ago. At the same time, it was reported that he “is completing an experimental batch, after which he should begin pre-production release aircraft with subsequent pilot operation in the Air Force. " PJSC "UAC" talk about the beginning of the transfer to the military installation party of 12 fighters in 2019 year. I am not strong in the Russian aircraft newspeak and do not understand the difference between the “pre-production release” and the “installation party”. I assume that this is the same thing.
    Conclusion: the possible time for adopting a fighter into service is the beginning of the 2020's, although it cannot be excluded that it will be moved closer to the middle of the next decade. In other words, nice su-xnumx will appear in the troops through 5, and then all 7 years.
    This is despite the fact that bad F-35 almost two and a half hundred have already been flying confidently, they are already running around in the army and have flown more than 100 thousand hours. It was during these flights that its shortcomings came to light, which are carefully studied and gradually eliminated.
    By the way, guarantees that during the flight tests of the Su-57 will not reveal their problems will not give anyone and only on the scrapers and needle files will not have enough money. I'm not saying that a lot of time and effort is spent on scraping and grinding ...
    I suggest everyone to be patient and wait for visible practical results, leaving aside empty disputes like "Who is stronger than an elephant or whale?".
    1. Nuclear fuel station
      Nuclear fuel station 20 November 2017 12: 57 New
      0
      The maximum where cheers patients can think and oppose the Russian Federation and the West in aerial combat is SU35 against the last blocks F16 and f18. And it is very likely that due to the overwhelming superiority of the West in AWACs, dryers will not have even the slightest chance.
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 20 November 2017 14: 48 New
        +3
        Quote: Nuclear gas station
        then due to the overwhelming superiority of the West in the AWAC, the dryers will not have even the slightest chance.

        at the exercises Cope India-2005. Where the United States seconded the more modern and efficient F-16C Block 50 fighters, which entered service in 1991. They are deployed at Misawa Air Base in Japan. These are the most massive American fighters, their number in the US Air Force reaches 700 units. And the most popular in military conflicts. In addition, the Americans flown AWACS E-3 Sentry AWACS aircraft to India.

        The United States attached great importance to these maneuvers. Since it was not just about restoring the honor of the uniform, but also about very serious contracts for the sale of fighters to various countries. And, therefore, by all means it was necessary to prove that they are the best in the world.

        It didn’t work this time either.

        The Indians put forward a Russian fighter of the 4 ++ Su-30MKI generation, which had not yet been tested in such practical tests. It differs from the Su-30K in the more advanced B011 H4 radar. Which is equivalent to gaining new qualities. The station of this type, American manufacturers begin to equip only fifth-generation fighters. Radar fighter generation XNUMX ++ much weaker.

        Bars scans using electronic beam deflection, rather than mechanical movement of the antenna. In this connection, the station has practically no delay and is able to work with 15 air targets in the passage and accompanies 4 targets to ensure the use of weapons without stopping the search.

        The radar provides mapping with a real beam, mapping with Doppler narrowing of the beam, mapping with a synthesized aperture, selection of ground moving targets, tracking up to two ground targets. The fighter target capture range is up to 140 km. Detection range in air-to-surface mode: railway bridge - 120 km, destroyer - 150 km, group of tanks - 50 km.

        At these exercises, the position of the teams was unequal, since the American fighters had information support from the AWACS. It is generally accepted that such support is the key to victory over machines of the same class, with approximately the same capabilities. However, the Su-30MKI, thanks to the superiority of the B011 radar HXNUMXM, which has a phased array, was victorious in most battles.

        Enlighten and do not write heresy anymore.
        1. vik669
          vik669 24 November 2017 20: 17 New
          +1
          Yes, here 90% of the minimum specialists for 3,14 get a ride - the topic does not matter.
      2. Vlad.by
        Vlad.by 20 November 2017 15: 14 New
        +1
        Yes you! Okay, so-called urapatrioty ...
        But you then !? How can you compare GREAT and HORRIBLE FFFF-16 and no less beautiful Hornets with some kind of Su-30 and Su-35 ???? !!!!
        Did Russians ever know how to make planes ????
        Do not slander the exceptional !!!
        Their F-104 as much as 104 points will give any modern Russian clunker.
        Rus give up !!!!!
    2. Mahma
      Mahma 20 November 2017 15: 42 New
      0
      during flight tests the Su-57 will not reveal its problems
      Everyone has the right to their rake
  15. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 20 November 2017 18: 17 New
    0
    Lopatov,
    "In the case of these aircraft, a race with themselves?" ////

    No. Race with Russia and China, which America in this area
    (5th generation fighters) clearly won. While standing on the wing
    Su-57 and Chinese two types, the United States will charge the 6th generation. Based
    technologies rolled up in the 5th. Etc. Technology race, not just
    for profit. Who does not run - stands still, who stands still - rolls back.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 20 November 2017 19: 51 New
      +1
      Most likely, the Su 57 will release a maximum of 100 pieces, having bought 200 Su 35 at the same time, and at this time the sixth generation will begin to be tested at all, over which they have been working in Russia for the fourth year. The time of the fifth generation is already passing, after six years a sixth will appear and there will be no sense in purchasing a fifth.
    2. NN52
      NN52 20 November 2017 21: 09 New
      +8
      voyaka uh.

      It used to be interesting to read your comments .... Now no.
      Went a complete lack of professionalism.
      Therefore, I don’t even comment on your perls /
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 20 November 2017 21: 34 New
        +1
        I'm not offended ... hi impossible to please everyone smile
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 November 2017 03: 13 New
      +3
      Quote: voyaka uh
      While standing on the wing
      Su-57 and Chinese two types, the United States will charge the 6th generation.

      I'm interested, but do you have data on the development of a 6th generation fighter in mattresses? Share, please. It is very interesting. Despite the fact that the F-35 service life is preliminarily indicated until 2070.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 21 November 2017 20: 51 New
        +1
        Lockheed Martin has been working on the sixth generation since 2010.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 21 November 2017 20: 56 New
          +3
          Quote: Vadim237
          Lockheed Martin has been working on the sixth generation since 2010.

          The prototype of the aircraft of the 6th generation in the studio ... otherwise I’ll say that we have been working for the 8th generation for a long time.
          1. vik669
            vik669 24 November 2017 20: 50 New
            +1
            Why should there be little things - immediately TENTH know ours!
    4. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 21 November 2017 04: 58 New
      +5
      America will win when it proves that the American miracle lays down the Chinese with one left and at least Su 35. In the meantime, this can be called trial operation.
  16. NN52
    NN52 24 November 2017 10: 25 New
    +9
    abc_alex,

    It did not work out in the group ... Representatives argued to whom to make changes, migrants or su ..
    Only through the voice channel worked.
    But now they say something has been deceived ....
  17. Konatantin 1992
    Konatantin 1992 21 June 2018 06: 47 New
    0
    Do not hit please !!!! But my doubts creep in (forgive me again, I know Russia is the strongest country in the world, and everything is the best !!!!!), but why did India abandon the joint project for the 5th generation fighter? Indian experts talk about the backwardness of Russian technology, radars are not very, avionics are not very, gliders are not very, "invisibility" is not as we would like, the sensors of our production are not very .... That is the doubt - maybe you should not shout to the whole world (and in Russia to pray and sprinkle ICBM and other military equipment with holy water) that there are no analogues in the world !!! One of a kind !! While it will not be mass-produced and tested in combat conditions.