Military Review

Survival crew "Merkava"

251
Survival crew "Merkava"Recently published state assessments tanks using criteria that are not accepted in the technical literature when determining their survivability and weapon effectiveness. One of the authors (NVO No. 33, 2017) was unable to establish the reason for the absence of the Merkava tank in Forbes magazine among the comparison list, which consisted of five main mass tanks - T-90, Leopard-2, Abrams M1A2 SEPV2, MVT-2000, Leclerc-56. Another author reported (NVO No. 28, 2017) that the German Leopard 2 was traditionally a rival of Merkava in terms of its reputation of being “invulnerable”.


Both authors, not owning the real characteristics of mass tanks, tried to identify the best car. However, it is unacceptable to compare the “Merkava”, intended for conducting combat operations in the conditions of the Middle East theater of war (Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Israel), with the “Abrams” and “Leopard” that were created and modernized in time to counter the Soviet tank armadas in the NATO theater of operations in Europe.

The tank "Merkava" maintained firing from a tank gun within the limits of safe maneuvering corners ± 30 deg. During the fighting in Lebanon in 1982, several Merkavs were hit, but the crews were not injured. The Syrian T-72 tanks in this war, during the shelling, burned well and were put out of action due to the detonation of projectiles in the automatic loader. In the "Merkava" the main part of the shells placed in the aft, which significantly excluded the defeat of the tank due to the detonation of ammunition.

The main focus when creating the Merkava was the protection of the crew. Let's try to trace how this problem was solved during the creation of the Merkava.

PROTECTION OF "MERKAVY" UNDER JUSTIFIED DOUBT

Special mention should be made of the criteria for the loss of tanks (“NVO” No. 28, 2017). Imagine a wording that experts will not use: “It can be assumed that losses are the best criterion for a tank’s quality.” It is useful to recall the article “Protection of a tank - an anachronism or a vital necessity?” (“Military parade”, September, 2002) article of the general director of NIIstali, Doctor of Technical Sciences Valery Grigoryan, which notes that in modern conditions of superiority of the damaging effect of anti-tank weapons it is impossible to provide reliable armor protection due to the tank's own protection (dynamic protection, armor, active protection complex). It is necessary to create group and collective protection, in which quality can be used short-range and medium-range air defense systems.

A serious misconception of the author is that the criterion of loss determines the quality of tanks. The criterion for the quality of tanks associated with the impact of the enemy are survivability, noise immunity and secrecy. It is somehow difficult to detect in the criterion of defeat the entire valid set of parameters determining the quality of tanks, which can be assessed using the “Methods for analyzing the survivability of armored objects when firing various anti-tank weapons” created by VNIITransmash (“NVO” No. 30, 2017). But this technique requires the availability of professional skills possessed by employees with special education.

According to the author, the tank "Merkava" has protection, the parameters of which were questionable. If he had carefully considered the tactical and technical requirements (TTT) for the protection of the Merkava, he would find that the defeat of the tank also depends on the conditions of its combat use. "Merkava" was created in accordance with the specific TTT of the Israeli army, and therefore inferior to other tanks on other battlefields. The tactical doctrine of the Israeli army preferred to use the Merkava from shelters with a high degree of crew survival in defensive operations. The criterion for the loss of tanks as a quality criterion is disorienting the ordinary reader and is not an achievement in the field of assessing the protection of armored vehicles and the effectiveness of anti-tank weapons.

An unacceptable mistake of another author (“NVO” No. 33, 2017) is that he listed the Merkava tank without proof in the Forbes magazine’s list of comparison tanks of Russia, Germany, USA, China and France. This could happen only because of the author's ignorance of the TTT, according to which the Merkava tank was created. Forbes magazine perfectly imagined that the "Merkava" is intended for battles in the conditions of the desert and hot climate. For this reason, the Merkava was not included by Forbes in the comparison list of the main tanks of the countries mentioned.

The author reduces the assessment principle to the most “simple”: “we compare the technical characteristics of machines, protection systems and weapons, the cost of their production, the effectiveness of combat use, the demand on the world arms market, the aggregate of these data can determine the best machine”. However, the "effectiveness of combat use" is absent, and most of the combat characteristics presented by the author do not correspond to real samples. So, for example, the author notes, “that the tank is very heavy, its weight reaches 70 T, the armor“ Merkava ”, whose thickness is equivalent to 750 mm, is not effective, it will not stand against modern armor-piercing-caliber projectiles”. These characteristics are not true. Thus, the Merkava Mk1 (Mk2) combat mass is 56 (60) t, and the Mk3 mass is 61 t.

He goes on to say: “In the battle, the Merkava do not show themselves from the best side, this is also due to the poor training of Israeli tank crews, but mainly because of the technical shortcomings of the tanks themselves. It is known that the Russian Kornet anti-tank systems are terrifying Israeli tankers. ” The following text was presented: “In Iraq, in the current war, jihadists have managed to incite Abrams from RPG-7, and this is already ridiculous. The poorly armed Yemeni guerrillas are the Hussites and they managed to destroy around the Abrams 20 tanks.

In this case, it should be noted that most tanks have a side, the thickness of the armored plate is about 80 mm. And the armor penetration of RPG-7 grenades is equal to 750 mm. Do not save the board from breaking through neither the screens nor the dynamic protection. In this situation, tanks must be accompanied to combat the grenade throwers. Therefore, it is unacceptable to use tanks without special accompaniment.

HOW MANY ISRAELI'S TANKING COMMUNITIES DIE AND WRONG IN THE 1973 WAR OF THE YEAR

By the number of weapons before the start of the Arab-Israeli war 1973, the advantage was on the side of Syria and Egypt. By the beginning of the war there were 415 thousand people, 1700 tanks, 690 aircraft in the Armed Forces of Israel. The Egyptian Armed Forces consisted of 833 thousand people, 2200 tanks, 690 aircraft, 190 helicopters, and Syrian - 332 thousand people, 1350 tanks, 321 combat aircraft. These data are presented in the book “Basic Battle Tanks”, edited by B. Safonov, Head of the Department of the Military Academy of Armored Forces, together with a team of authors. It is appropriate to recall that in the newspaper "Pravda Rossii"

(No. 20, 2001) published: "During the Arab-Israeli war in 1973, with the help of the Malyutka ATGM, almost the entire Israeli tank fleet was destroyed - on the order of 800 vehicles." The author of these lines is the chief, the general designer of the KBM, the Hero of Socialist Labor, the laureate of the Leninist and State Prizes, S.P. Invincible. It is important to note the unfair assessment of the destruction of the Israeli tank fleet, since it was 1700, not 800 machines. But Invincible does not mention that the Israelis created an electronic device that provides for the undermining of the Malyutka combat unit when approaching the target. In other words, the device installed on Israeli tanks forced the explosive device of the warhead to operate prematurely at some distance from the body of the armored vehicle, which ensured its non-impact. MSC staff took a long time to eliminate this shortcoming.

A. Sergievsky’s article “How to prevent war” (“Aerospace Defense”, No. 1, 2004) reviewed military actions on the Syrian-Israeli front. The author notes: “By the beginning of the attack of the Syrian troops, the Israeli system of fire and obstacles in front of the front edge and in the depths had not been opened. The engineering preparation of the offensive was not carried out properly. The troop advance routes were not prepared. The measures to overcome their own minefields and Israel were not thought out in detail. ” The war began on October 6 1973. For the first 1,5 days, the Syrian army missed 600 tanks. October 7 due to heavy losses the command of the Syrian army makes a decision: to suspend the offensive. Syrian units retreated in separate groups, and then began to flee with the abandonment of equipment and weapons. The Israelis were able to resist the Syrians swift tank counterattacks. October 16 active hostilities on the Syrian-Israeli front stopped. One of the main reasons for the unsuccessful hostilities for Syria was poor troop control. But victory in the 1973 war of the year went to Israel at a high price.

By the end of the war, about two-thirds of the Israeli tank crews were put out of action - 5100 killed and wounded (Chris Bishop, Armored Vehicles in Battle - Omega CJSC, Moscow, 1998). This number of tankers corresponds to the defeat of Israeli tanks 1275 for 10 days of active hostilities in the conditions of the Arab-Israeli war of 1973. The main problem for a small state was casualties. Each tanker trained for a long time to get the proper level of training. The reason for the disruption of the Israeli crews is the use of old, poorly protected tanks: the American "Shermans" and M-48, the French AMX-13, the British "Centurions" and the Syrian

T-55. Production of T-55 tanks took place at the Omsk tank factory. Then delivered to the Egyptian army. These tanks were captured in large numbers by the Israeli armed forces after the unsuccessful attack of the Egyptian army at Sinai in 1967, and of these, they formed a tank brigade, which took part in the 1973 war of the year.

Israel conducted a deep modernization of the T-55 tanks, on which the 105-mm rifled gun was installed instead of the Soviet 100-mm D-10T. In addition, a new fire control system was installed on the T-55, and the best innovation was the installation of an air conditioner, which was badly needed in the desert. What was the armor protection of the tank T-55? The frontal armor of the turret had a thickness of 203 mm, onboard - 150 mm. The upper frontal armored plate of the body had a thickness of 97 mm and the angle of inclination was 58 degrees. Lower body armor plate - 99 mm. The thickness of the side plates - 79 mm.

INFLUENCE OF THE HUMAN FACTOR ON THE MERKAVY CONNECTION

In the early days of the 1973 war, there were serious concerns that such losses could happen again. Therefore, the survival of the crew on the battlefield was the main requirement for the Israeli tank. Firepower, mobility and armor protection are the main parameters determining the effectiveness of the tank on the battlefield. But the Israeli tank builders, starting to develop a new tank, identified armored protection in the first place. This decision is based on the experience of Israel’s participation in four wars (since 1947), in which armored vehicles played an important role. In order to create a psychological base that would help increase the crew’s combat capability, it was much better to prepare tank crews to enter the battle, fully relying on the tank’s good armor protection, and not on the speed achieved to the detriment of security. Thus, it is probably the human factor that had the greatest influence on the layout of the Israeli tank.

The creation in Israel of a new tank "Merkava" (the so-called biblical war chariots) refers to the 1969 year, when Israel was faced with a refusal to purchase English tanks "Chieftain". In this case, the US was the only country that was ready to sell its tanks to Israel. But the government of Israel believed that dependence on one supplier was highly undesirable. Under these conditions, the most appropriate was the decision to produce a tank with minimal assistance from foreign countries. This situation was consistent with a political decision to create a national defense industry in Israel.

The development of the Israeli tank was carried out under the leadership of General Tal, taking into account the experience of the six-day war 1967 of the year in the Sinai Peninsula and the October war of the 1973 year in the Golan Heights. The tactical and technical requirements that take into account the special conditions of combat operations in the desert, as well as the tendency of the Israeli army to conduct combat operations from previously prepared positions, were made to the layout of the tank. The main tactical and technical requirements were as follows:

- The maximum possible degree of survival of the crew;

- the maximum possible reduction of the frontal silhouette of the tower and the reduction of its volume by placing partly in the tank hull;

- the creation of maximum comfort for the crew (spacious fighting compartment, convenient location of control devices, etc.) for the possibility of maneuvering and effective firing for a longer period of time;

- the possibility of using the tank as a command vehicle, as well as, if necessary, for the transportation of infantry and the transportation of cargo to advanced positions;

- maximum use of units and mechanisms of combat vehicles, which are in service with the Israeli army, in order to reduce the cost of production, repair and maintenance of the tank.

The supply of Merkava Mk1 tanks to the troops began with 1977.

Protection of the crew of the tank "Merkava" in accordance with the TTT was provided through the following measures. Frontal protection of the hull was carried out by the front engine and transmission. At the same time, the engine, transmission and systems providing them are combined into one power unit with a mass of 4000 kg. Frontal booking of the Merkava Corps is an exploded design consisting of three armor plates, placed one after the other and interconnected not closely but with a gap. At the same time in the cavity between the first and second armored plates placed a special filler and fuel tank. In turn, between the second and third armored plates installed power unit. The tactical requirements of the Israeli army preferred in defensive operations to use tanks from shelters, which increases the possibility of defeating the tower, so the frontal projection of the tower is greatly reduced in height and width. One of the measures to improve crew survival is the location of the doors in the stern, facilitating the crew’s quick exit from the wrecked tank. A large amount of combat compartment, providing increased comfort for crew accommodation, reduced its fatigue. The position of the fighting compartment made it possible to use almost the entire aft compartment to accommodate large ammunition stored in non-combustible containers. High efficiency BPS M111, which at a distance of 2 km punched armor 170 mm thick, located at an angle 60 degrees from the vertical to the upper frontal part of the body. Tank "Merkava" was used in battles in Lebanon, where it easily dealt with the Syrian T-72 tanks with the help of BPS M111.

The existing non-professional estimates of frontal protection of the Merkava, firstly, do not reflect the use of the power unit (engine and transmission) in its composition, and, secondly, do not establish its armor resistance. In this case, the thickness of the equivalent armor plate 750 mm thick is used as an erroneous estimate. This is a blunder. In this case, the armor resistance of the frontal protection of the Merkavy case will be for the BNP 900 mm, and for the AF-TOR, 1100 mm. In other words, BPS with 900 mm armor penetration will not break through the frontal protection of the Merkava case.

The allegation that the Kornet ATGM is terrifying Israeli tankers can be clarified after checking armor resistance by shooting at the frontal protection of the Merkava tank hull Мк4 or by equivalent, imitating the contribution of the power unit and the fuel tank to the armor.

ACHIEVEMENTS OF ISRAELI NAVIGATION TROOPS

When choosing the main armament of the tank "Merkava" MK 1, Israeli experts preferred the 105-mm gun, for which the M111 armor-piercing piercing shells with a tungsten-nickel core with a diameter of 32 mm were developed (the shell was adopted in Germany). The plumage of this projectile, in contrast to the plumage of similar types of projectiles, is made not of aluminum, but of steel. This allows you to make the plumage smaller thickness, which leads to a significant decrease in dispersion and loss of speed. However, as a result of the modernization of the Merkava tanks, the Мk 2, 3, and 4 have an 120-mm cannon, developed in Germany.

BPS M111 to the 105-mm gun (Table 1) deserves special attention. It is known that comparative tests of frontal armor of hulls and turrets of domestic tanks were carried out by domestic BPS 3BM22 to 125-mm tank gun. Here came the next embarrassment. As a result of the delivery of the M48А3 tank with BPS M111 to the Soviet Union, it became possible to test the armor resistance of our T-72 tanks. The results were stunning - the multi-layered armor of the upper frontal part (LDA) of the hull was pierced with an 105-mm M111 projectile at a distance of 2 km. At the same time, the domestic 3BM22 projectile did not break through this WLD. What is the multi-layered armor VLD hull of the tank T-72? The export version of the T-72M had a three-layer frontal protection of the hull, consisting of two armor plates (thickness - 60 and 50 mm), between which glass fiber textolite was placed (thickness - 105 mm). The angle of this three-layer "cake" was 68 degrees from vertical to WLD.

BPS 3BM22 was adopted in 1976 year and was used to test the armor resistance of the protection of Soviet tanks during state tests. But BPS 3BM22 did not break through not only the VLD of the T-72 tank, but also the T-80 and T-90 tanks. At the same time, 3BM22 was not an analogue of developed foreign armor-piercing projectiles. There is a trick - state tests were carried out with the help of the BPS, which did not break through the weak defense structures of Soviet tanks.

The design of the Israeli 105-mm BPS M111 testified to the implementation of advanced technical solutions: the increase in armor penetration of BPS when interacting with multilayer barriers was achieved through the use of heavy alloy material in the manufacture of the projectile body; the propeller master device adopted a coil wrapping its “body” along a considerable length in order to avoid projectile deformation in the barrel due to enormous overloads during acceleration; damping device consisting of a ballistic tip (material - aluminum alloy), inside which are placed three heavy alloy cylinders providing minimal shock-wave loads in the shell of the projectile, which protects it from deformation during armor penetration (fig. 1); the pointed shape of the ballistic tip at the standard projectile speeds ensured the overcoming of the built-in dynamic protection of Soviet tanks without detonation of explosives.

Tests conducted in 38 NII MO, did not serve as a serious warning to the Ministry of Defense and the leadership of the defense industry to improve the quality of models of weapons produced armored vehicles.

BPS 3BM22 and М111 were put into service in 1976 year. Of particular note is the damping device, which the designers of our BPS did not think of. The design of the master BPS device in motion in the barrel used in the M111 projectile was only mastered by Soviet specialists in 1991 in the 3BM48 Lead product.

Today, in the conditions of the advanced level of anti-tank weapons, the layout of the Merkava tank Мk4 ensures a high survival rate of the crew. No other methods of layout of modern tanks can not withstand a frontal shelling of the Merkava with armor-piercing sub-caliber shells with 900 mm armor penetration and ATGM warheads with 1100 mm armor penetration.

BOOKING INTERMEDIA

As a bolt from the blue, the article 20 of September of this year appeared. in one of the famous Moscow newspapers. Finally, after 2 of the year, the taxpayer learned that “a couple of years ago, our largest partner, India, expressed displeasure with the T-90С tank. The air conditioner fails, which in tropical climates often deprives the crew of combat capability. Claims were also made to the power plant: in an environment of high dustiness and high mountains, it often fails. Moreover, the Indian military said that the T-90C is inferior in its tactical and technical data to the Al-Khalid tank made in China and Pakistan. And as a conclusion: in Delhi, they thought about the development of domestic tank building ”.

The article also notes that today the Chinese tank MVT-3000 is a serious competitor to Russian tanks. It is equipped with a 125-mm cannon, similar to the Soviet 2А46 cannon, which was put into service in the 1971 year. The Russian T-90A, T-90C and T-72B3 tanks are armed with an 2A46М-5 gun, created in 2005 year and significantly superior to 2A46 in accuracy and reliability. But the author of the article did not understand that these guns do not have modern armor-piercing sub-caliber shells.

But before that there were only positive assessments of our tank builders. It is known that in battle it is important to control the troops. It is time to establish management in the field of tank building.
Author:
Originator:
http://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2017-10-27/1_971_merkava.html
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  1. Teberii
    Teberii 29 October 2017 06: 49
    +5
    A detailed article, everyone is preparing equipment for a particular area, there are no universal machines, and there is no point in that either.
    1. zenion
      zenion 29 October 2017 16: 33
      +5
      Why didn’t they write how Merkava fought in the second Lebanon war. It would be interesting. They recall that it was 40 years ago, and fresh facts do not throw. That was in 2006. Write.
  2. svp67
    svp67 29 October 2017 06: 56
    12
    And as a conclusion: Delhi thought about the development of domestic tank building. ”
    An interesting conclusion from the lack of air conditioning on the T-90 ... The author clearly gives out what is desired for reality.
    And I'm a little sorry that the initial version of "Almaty" with the front-mounted MTO, remained embodied only for TBMP. And how does this TBMP look more harmonious and complete, in technical terms.

    Maybe it’s still worth returning to the original appearance of “Almaty”
    1. Gray brother
      Gray brother 29 October 2017 07: 48
      35
      Quote: svp67
      An interesting conclusion from the lack of air conditioning on the T-90 ... The author clearly gives out what is desired for reality.

      This article is from the Novaya Gazeta, a hotbed of liberals and God's chosen ones. Objectivity is not to be expected from them.
      1. SMP
        SMP 29 October 2017 11: 30
        29
        This article is from the Novaya Gazeta, a hotbed of liberals and God's chosen ones. Objectivity is not to be expected from them.


        What is objectivity?

        The Syrian T-72 tanks in this war were well burned during the shelling and incapacitated due to the detonation of shells in the automatic loader. In "Merkava" the main part of the shells is located in the aft, which significantly eliminated the defeat of the tank due to the undermining of ammunition.


        Only a technically illiterate person could write this; he didn’t read further, other materials were enough.

        How can you compare tanks created for different conditions and different theaters of war?

        1. A tank stuck in the mud is equal to a tank that exploded in a mine, as it becomes a target and is quickly destroyed.
        Imagine Merkava in the swamps of Belarus or worse in the black soil of Ukraine in spring or autumn, well, how many kilometers does a hundred of these Merkavas travel across the field?

        2. Tanks designed for a massive attack on fortified positions, that is, the formation when the side projections are not shot at all, as hundreds of tanks cover each other's sides.
        At the same time, in the frontal projection of the tower in the 70s, even if it were nailed, the ammunition would not be damaged, so it was hidden in the hull.

        Now the situation is different and the BC must be taken out of the hull into an uninhabited tower module.

        Since the USSR before MiG-29 and Su-27 was much inferior to NATO countries in aviation, the USSR compensated
        this is a tank armada that was supposed to break through the defenses and quickly take all the airfields to La Manche, destroying warehouses with fuels and lubricants and ammunition along the way.
        The march on Pristina on the night of June 11-12, 1999, showed why the USSR created the Airborne Forces, created the T-64, T-80, and even T-72,


        That is, the T-64, T-72, T-80 tanks were designed according to one scheme, roughly but approximately like the hoplites of Alexander the Great built in the phalanx, on the plain.

        The T-64 \ 72 \ 80 \ 90 low force, a small frontal projection area high traffic, which is important when crossing rivers under water.

        High permeability is needed when entering the swampy riverbank, Now imagine Merkava with its mass of 70 tons with high ground pressure during underwater driving? and Merkava’s exit to the swampy shore?

        Merkava was created only for Israel and that’s it, T-72 \ 90 for the European theater.
        It is impossible to create a tank for all climatic zones of the globe.
        Comparing Merkava and T-72 \ 90, the author is trying to shove something that is not shoved.

        Children of comics, Alien protv Predator Mlyn.
        1. Negro
          Negro 29 October 2017 13: 16
          +4
          Quote: SMP
          Comparing Merkava and T-72 \ 90, the author is trying to shove something that is not shoved.

          The author compares machines that can meet each other. T-72 in the Middle East as dirt, and T-90 are slowly appearing.
          And in the former. USSR Merkavas have nothing to do. Send to Birobidzhan)))
        2. Professor
          Professor 29 October 2017 16: 18
          +7
          Quote: SMP
          Imagine Merkava in the swamps of Belarus or worse in the black soil of Ukraine in spring or autumn, well, how many kilometers does a hundred of these Merkavas travel across the field?

          The Golan chernozems (or whatever in Arabic) and the Hakhula swamps under which Maerkawa was designed, I think it is not necessary to show? Guess from three times who will quickly fall in the snow / mud / swamp, the weighing centner Schwarzenegger skiing or 20-kilogram girl in boots?

          Quote: SMP
          High maneuverability is needed when entering the swampy riverbank, now imagine Merkava with its mass of 70 tons with high ground pressure during underwater driving? and Merkava’s exit to the swampy shore?

          And really. What is Merkava’s ground pressure? wink

          Quote: SMP
          Merkava was created only for Israel and that’s it, T-72 \ 90 for the European theater.
          It is impossible to create a tank for all climatic zones of the globe.
          Comparing Merkava and T-72 \ 90, the author is trying to shove something that is not shoved.

          1. “Israel” is capitalized.
          2. Merkava was created by Talik not for marching in the far north, but for our sandbox. But the “T-72 \ 90 for the European theater of war” created in your opinion clearly should not be at war in our area like Syria. Poor Assad. wink
          1. Negro
            Negro 29 October 2017 16: 33
            +3
            Quote: Professor
            “Israel” is capitalized.

            With two.
            "State of Israel" or "State of Israel". Just "Israel" - wrong)))
          2. Setrac
            Setrac 30 October 2017 08: 50
            0
            Quote: Professor
            1. “Israel” is capitalized.

            But the word "Illiteracy" - with a little.
      2. shahor
        shahor 29 October 2017 18: 52
        +4
        Actually, the article is from Nezavisimaya Gazeta. Probably also a hotbed
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 29 October 2017 11: 00
      12
      Quote: svp67
      the original version of "Almaty" with a front-mounted MTO

      ??
      Apparently, everything is exactly the opposite. And the front location of the MTO TBMP was not received to increase protection, but to ensure the normal abandonment of the "landing" by infantry.
      1. svp67
        svp67 29 October 2017 11: 07
        +9
        Quote: Spade
        The front location of the MTO TBMP was not received to increase protection, but to ensure the normal abandonment of the "landing" by infantry.

        This is of course the same. But take a word, it was a tank with a front-mounted MTO that was the first Armata project, but it was not possible to solve some issues on the fly and returned to a more classic layout ... you understand the holidays, the timing. But now, when there is an excellent "intermediate" option, in the form of the T-90MS, it would be possible to return to the original version and bring it to mind, how many lives could be saved ...
        1. Cat
          Cat 29 October 2017 11: 31
          +8
          Then it makes sense to return to the T-95 with its line-up and 152mm gun!
          1. PSih2097
            PSih2097 29 October 2017 16: 46
            +1
            Quote: Kotischa
            Then it makes sense to return to the T-95 with its line-up and 152mm gun!

            Is this for this?
            1. Per se.
              Per se. 30 October 2017 06: 46
              +7
              Quote: PSih2097
              to this u what ???
              You, Alexander, have an image of an 640 object, that is, the Black Eagle, and T-95 is an 195 object voiced by Igor Sergeyev. The Eagle was made as a further development of the T-80 in Omsk, or rather, it was a completely new tank, and the T-95 (195 object) was developed by the UVZ. On the "Eagle" automatic loading in a niche-armored capsule, on the T-95 in an armored capsule the crew, and the entire space of the tower and under the tower occupied the 152 mm gun and its automatic loader (for the sake of 152 mm guns and a garden of such a city). Figure T-95 with 152 mm tool.
              1. Per se.
                Per se. 30 October 2017 06: 50
                +6
                Here is another frontal projection of the T-95 (195 object). The tank weighed about 55 tons, except for the 152 mm gun had an auxiliary 30 mm automatic gun. Titanium was widely used in booking.
                1. Per se.
                  Per se. 30 October 2017 06: 58
                  +6
                  By the way, T-95 was stolen at Serdyukov, although he had already passed State tests. The leadership changed to UVZ, and on the basis of the project they concocted a “golden platform”, defying the very idea of ​​a tank by crossing it with a BMP (T-15), depriving the main tank, 152 mm guns, gave birth to something like this, “Armata”. Photo of the T-95 tank (195 object).
        2. 4thParasinok
          4thParasinok 1 November 2017 15: 26
          +1
          Quote: svp67
          But take my word for it, it was a tank with a front-mounted MTO that was the first project of “Almaty”,

          we won’t believe what they just don’t say here, and it is unproven to believe everything - do not respect yourself. And I also won’t believe that you were developing the T-14.
    3. Setrac
      Setrac 30 October 2017 08: 47
      +2
      Quote: svp67
      And I'm a little sorry that the initial version of "Almaty" with the front-mounted MTO, remained embodied only for TBMP.

      Put on the T-15 combat module of the type as on the Octopus-SD and the tank with the front MTO is ready.
  3. Herculesic
    Herculesic 29 October 2017 07: 31
    37
    For a long time there were no scribbles from this author, who claimed that our tanks can almost be punched with a brick from any distance, that our ATGMs are unsuitable for anything - find and read his libel in the archive, otherwise you will not name it! In general, I am silent about his allegations that even the promising dynamic protection that we are creating can now easily be destroyed by NATO ammunition! fool True, for some reason Syria showed a completely different thing. ... !!! In short, the article from Trastopshin is the minus !!!!!!!
  4. mariusdeayeraleone
    mariusdeayeraleone 29 October 2017 07: 36
    +1
    It is a pity that in Karabakh it is not needed (((
    1. aws4
      aws4 29 October 2017 08: 27
      19
      it’s a pity that even under this article an Azerbaijani entered with his comment about Karabakh ....
      1. mariusdeayeraleone
        mariusdeayeraleone 29 October 2017 14: 57
        +2
        Well said))))
    2. Cat
      Cat 29 October 2017 08: 40
      +6
      Quote: mariusdeayeraleone
      It is a pity that in Karabakh it is not needed (((

      It is more necessary for your compatriots when their grandmothers are chasing "rotten tomatoes" in the market. And then for three hundred meters in the "police" have to run.
    3. brigadir
      brigadir 29 October 2017 09: 53
      +4
      It seems to me that the relief and climate in Karabakh is not very different from the relief and climate in the Golan Heights. So here more politics and finance play a role. So far, in any case, no one except Israel has a Merkav.
      1. Cat
        Cat 29 October 2017 11: 33
        +5
        Would you like to undermine the image of your "Chariots"? Or supply them with the Armenian army !!!
        1. mariusdeayeraleone
          mariusdeayeraleone 29 October 2017 15: 06
          +3
          Do you call that museum rabble among Armenians the army? I really feel sorry for them!
      2. aws4
        aws4 29 October 2017 11: 41
        11
        don’t throw the rotten Azerbaijanis ... the topic isn’t about that ... it’s just annoying these Armenian-Azerbaijani squabbles on the case and without work .. especially gentlemen from Baku, which would not have touched immediately on Karabakh ...
        1. Cat
          Cat 29 October 2017 13: 45
          +1
          You are right, I am silent!
      3. mariusdeayeraleone
        mariusdeayeraleone 29 October 2017 15: 04
        +1
        It’s just that there’s no way! It doesn’t work, the chickens don’t peck. The tank wasn’t showing the T62a, the T72b T90 didn’t take part. It’s because the tanks weren’t logistic then and the enemy was approaching 500 meters easily for firing. Now the enemy’s proximity to the tank is 5 km. This negates all chances
      4. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 29 October 2017 17: 38
        0
        Singapore has the first Merkava.
  5. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 29 October 2017 07: 46
    26
    In the 1982 year, the Merkava-1 and T-72 tanks did not collide. Carrots were used along the coast, and T-72 were used by the Syrians to cover the Damascus-Beirut highway. Yes, and the Syrian T-72 almost did not participate in the battles, the Republican Guard division was deployed the day before the ceasefire. The only clash recorded in the IDF with the T-72 in the 1982 year was the shooting of the Syrian avant-garde from an ambush by an ATG company of an airborne brigade. 11 cars were hit. In three, the ammunition detonated, and the rest were evacuated by the Syrians after the termination of onnia.
    PS on the Mk-2 tanks there is a 105 mm gun. There was an opportunity to install 120mm, but at one time it was abandoned due to financial costs, and for today Mk-2 has been partially written off, partially transferred to the reserve and should be completely written off by 2028.
    1. Cat
      Cat 29 October 2017 08: 45
      +6
      Amazing I agree with Aron !? What is it for!!? request request
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 29 October 2017 09: 03
        +7
        Maybe he didn’t because he cut the uterus without anesthesia?
        1. 7gor
          7gor 29 October 2017 13: 22
          +8
          Aron adequate guy
    2. Kurasava
      Kurasava 29 October 2017 09: 42
      +4
      Damn it! But here Aron is forced to admit. Not often this happens. recourse
    3. Maz
      Maz 29 October 2017 09: 53
      +8
      Yes, we are somehow on the side and Merkava and Her problems and Her prospects in the Jewish deserts. Take experience, if any. We will estimate. And recycle. The question then is different: why no one buys such an excellent tank? Even outdated versions? And the answer is obvious. This product faithfully works only on the Israeli theater. It is expensive and difficult for serious hostilities in the attack.
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 29 October 2017 10: 30
        13
        Quote: Maz
        Yes, we are somehow on the side and Merkava and Her problems and Her prospects in the Jewish deserts. Take experience, if any. We will estimate. And recycle. The question then is different: why no one buys such an excellent tank? Even outdated versions? And the answer is obvious. This product faithfully works only on the Israeli theater. It is expensive and difficult for serious hostilities in the attack.

        Actually, you have a decent tank school in Ukraine. But for some reason, your Ukrainian army was not able to use its “Bulat” and “Bastions” “for serious hostilities in the attack”.
        1. venik
          venik 29 October 2017 11: 01
          +8
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          Actually, you have a decent tank school in Ukraine. But for some reason, your Ukrainian army was not able to use its “Bulat” and “Bastions” “for serious hostilities in the attack”.

          ==========
          And they are ??? "Oplotov" was built as many as 10 pieces !!! -2 "pounded" on the "military run-in" to "complete insanity" (as much as 8 left !!!). “Bulatov” (and this is just the modernization of T-64 taken from long-term storage bases) was a bit more (some say 70, some - 100 ..... There wasn’t enough money for more. How much is now on the go - this is a mystery covered in darkness "!). The rest is slightly “restored”, “64”, “72” and “80”, pulled from the same SDH. How many of them are in the Armed Forces of Ukraine-different numbers walk: from 350 to 500 ....
          And here you are about the "massive use of" Bastions "and" Bulatov "..... It's ridiculous, right, my friend!
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 29 October 2017 12: 23
            10
            Quote: venik
            . How many of them are in the Armed Forces of Ukraine - the numbers are different: from 350 to 500 ....
            And here you are about the "massive use of" Bastions "and" Bulatov "..... It's ridiculous, right, my friend!

            These are the problems of your command. If the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was not able to concentrate tank forces in the main direction, then this is his problem.
            1. Simargl
              Simargl 4 May 2018 17: 59
              +1
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              These are the problems of your command.
              Those. command - rubbish, equipment - rubbish (after re-conservation it was made worse than it was at the time of release), fighters ...
              And what does the school have to do with it?
      2. Archon
        Archon 29 October 2017 18: 09
        +2
        Perhaps when they choose cheap, they take Soviet modifications, Russian and Chinese tanks. When connected with the USA, they buy Abrams, when they are in the European Union, they buy leopards. And Israel most likely does not have sufficient resources to push its tanks for sale. Also with South Korean, Japanese and Turkish. But this assumption, I do not know for sure.
    4. padded jacket
      padded jacket 29 October 2017 12: 26
      +5
      Quote: Aron Zaavi
      The only clash recorded in AOI with the T-72 in 1982, it shot the Syrian avant-garde from an ambush by an ATG company of an airborne brigade. 11 cars were hit. In three, the ammunition detonated, and the rest were evacuated by the Syrians after the termination of onnia.

      Another Israeli lie no real evidence of this tale - NO and those spots on the pavement referred to by Israeli Jews, allegedly as confirmation of this, do not cause anything but laughter.
      Eurobum in Merkava lol


      That’s the topic about the landing in Merkava, so to speak
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 29 October 2017 17: 42
        +4
        Quote: quilted jacket
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        The only clash recorded in AOI with the T-72 in 1982, it shot the Syrian avant-garde from an ambush by an ATG company of an airborne brigade. 11 cars were hit. In three, the ammunition detonated, and the rest were evacuated by the Syrians after the termination of onnia.

        Another Israeli lie no real evidence of this tale - NO and those spots on the pavement referred to by Israeli Jews, allegedly as confirmation of this, do not cause anything but laughter.
        Eurobum in Merkava lol


        That’s the topic about the landing in Merkava, so to speak

        Oh .. laugh at the fifth-generation Iranian plane and over the “successful” Iranian-Iraqi war for the Persians.
      2. Settlement Oparyshev
        Settlement Oparyshev 30 October 2017 01: 43
        +1
        Spacious is how! You can put in two tiers of beds.
    5. Gml
      Gml 31 October 2017 13: 25
      +1
      shot through the Syrian avant-garde from an ambush by an ATG company of an airborne brigade
      Vanguard? They snored along the Beirut-Damascus road towards Damascus. There they were covered.
  6. Eurodav
    Eurodav 29 October 2017 08: 02
    +2
    Quote: Gray Brother
    Quote: svp67
    An interesting conclusion from the lack of air conditioning on the T-90 ... The author clearly gives out what is desired for reality.

    This article is from the Novaya Gazeta, a hotbed of liberals and God's chosen ones. Objectivity is not to be expected from them.

    That's right!
  7. Professor
    Professor 29 October 2017 08: 20
    27
    In addition, a new fire control system was installed on the T-55, and the installation was the best innovation air conditionerbadly needed in desert conditions.

    This is not true.

    The Merkava tank was used in battles in Lebanon, where it easily dealt with the Syrian T-72 tanks using the M111 BPS.

    This is not true. There was no combat contact between the T-72 and Merkava.

    Well, there’s a lot of truth beyond that, and I don’t even want to comment on the numbers. Minus article. negative
    1. Herculesic
      Herculesic 29 October 2017 08: 35
      +5
      Oleg hi -in this whole storyteller Rostopshin fool alas !!! No.
    2. Cat
      Cat 29 October 2017 08: 49
      +6
      More surprise? I agree with the Professor !? Hmm !!! hi what what No.
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 29 October 2017 09: 05
        +3
        You will still laugh, but I am also surprised and agree ...
    3. aws4
      aws4 29 October 2017 09: 13
      +9
      Professor, write something article on this topic .. the truth is very interesting to read you ... no kidding
      1. Professor
        Professor 29 October 2017 09: 59
        +9
        Quote: aws4
        Professor, write something article on this topic .. the truth is very interesting to read you ... no kidding

        I already said that I’m not writing more here and I’ve already exhausted even the “exception” from my rules. hi

        PS
        For those who are interested in how Merkava was created, I recommend watching a movie. Who does not speak Hebrew ask y "padded jacket" a link to a program that translates the scale.
    4. aws4
      aws4 29 October 2017 09: 16
      0
      By the way, the BTS characteristics table is real ????????
      1. seos
        seos 29 October 2017 13: 15
        +3
        No, it’s not real ... even the methods for determining armor penetration and the armor barriers themselves differ. According to the characteristics of the caliber, the mass of the shell and speed, the advantage of the Soviet model is visible.
        There is a video on the Internet where Americans in Iraq fire at an abandoned T-72 from their Abrams .... so they couldn’t punch their forehead ...
        1. aws4
          aws4 29 October 2017 22: 15
          +1
          Link to the video please skinte)
    5. Kurasava
      Kurasava 29 October 2017 09: 44
      +2
      Professor Sokolov. Plus, however, from me. Here I am forced to admit your case.
  8. polpot
    polpot 29 October 2017 08: 25
    +1
    Another attempt to prove that the Israeli synonym for the best passage about air conditioning touches
  9. prodi
    prodi 29 October 2017 08: 50
    +1
    merkava - a very peculiar tank layout. But do not repeat it
    1. Settlement Oparyshev
      Settlement Oparyshev 29 October 2017 10: 40
      +1
      It’s strange to hear that from a tanker. I hope you are a tanker, not a signalman.
      1. Svarog51
        Svarog51 30 October 2017 01: 28
        13
        And what did the signalmen not please you with? The connection is the "nervous system of the Army." No communication - no command and control. Who, if not you do not know about it. Or how in the 41st - to give signals by flags, having leaned out on a belt from the hatch under enemy fire?
  10. Rebus
    Rebus 29 October 2017 08: 56
    +8
    "What one person did, another will be able to break forever" ©
    There are no invulnerable tanks, there are oblique anti-tankers.
  11. Eurodav
    Eurodav 29 October 2017 09: 37
    +2
    Quote: Kotischa
    More surprise? I agree with the Professor !? Hmm !!! hi what what No.

    Something I began to worry about you already ...
    1. Cat
      Cat 29 October 2017 09: 41
      +1
      I’m also “maleho” for myself.
  12. shans2
    shans2 29 October 2017 09: 40
    +1
    the author of the article burned .... but in real life, Merkava 4 weighs 70 tons, and he stubbornly talks about the 1st version and the 3rd
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 29 October 2017 10: 30
      +9
      Still, not 70, but 65 tons.
      http://www.army-technology.com/projects/merkava4/
      The 65t Merkava 4 main battle tank entered full production in 2001 and began operational training with the Israel Defense Force in July 2003. The first battalion of Merkava Mk 4 tanks entered service with the Israel Defense Forces in 2004.
  13. Gust
    Gust 29 October 2017 09: 51
    0
    Why are our Israeli colleagues not writing a short review on armor protection and comparing layout schemes of modern MBT?
  14. Graz
    Graz 29 October 2017 09: 54
    +3
    pretentious article, very subjective, like nothing to put
  15. Settlement Oparyshev
    Settlement Oparyshev 29 October 2017 10: 15
    +5
    The author may be mistaken in the events, but he’s right about the excellent defense of Carrots. I don’t understand the stubbornness of Russian tank building in releasing rear-wheel tanks. Thank you. More tank battles will be won and Victory will be closer. What initiative or order from above is needed?
    1. prodi
      prodi 29 October 2017 10: 28
      +5
      how much dviglo weighs with a box - a ton? Does it protect better than a ton of composite armor?
      1. Settlement Oparyshev
        Settlement Oparyshev 29 October 2017 10: 38
        +4
        I clarify: dviglo with a box + composite armor, protects better than a dviglo with a box - armor and protects better than an armor - dviglo with a box. Huge "+" Also, the crew is located far from the guns and the angle of inclination of the armor can be made more inclined, as in BMP2 for example. With this arrangement, only + si, -s are not so scary.
        1. prodi
          prodi 29 October 2017 10: 47
          +3
          the dviglo with the box in front has only one big plus - the ability to get out of the tank relatively safely (and one relatively small one - an additional volume of the engine compartment instead of full armor). Although, in my opinion, the cost of the crew of a modern tank is less than the cost of a tank
          1. Settlement Oparyshev
            Settlement Oparyshev 29 October 2017 11: 10
            +2
            Do you need a safe escape from the tank? Or should the abandonment necessarily be associated with a health risk?
        2. Lopatov
          Lopatov 29 October 2017 10: 55
          +1
          I’ll clarify: What do you think, how much will the tower have to weigh and where should it be placed in your version?
          1. Settlement Oparyshev
            Settlement Oparyshev 29 October 2017 11: 04
            +1
            The uninhabited tower is noticeably lighter and lower than the traditional one.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 29 October 2017 11: 14
              +3
              And you need harder. In order to balance the "dviglo with box + composite armor"
              1. Settlement Oparyshev
                Settlement Oparyshev 29 October 2017 11: 22
                0
                More difficult is not a problem. Added protection will not spoil the "porridge"
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 29 October 2017 12: 16
                  +2
                  Quote: p-k Oparyshev
                  Harder no problem

                  Problem. Because increasing the weight of the tower leads to an increase in the weight of the tank. That is, it will require a more powerful and heavy engine. That is, increasing the weight of the tower ...
                  Vicious circle...
                  1. Negro
                    Negro 29 October 2017 13: 40
                    +1
                    Quote: Spade
                    That is, it will require a more powerful and heavier engine

                    Yes, but it’s not so significant
                    MT 883 Ka-500 1500 l / s weighs 1,8 tons, MT 883 Ka-524 2740 l / s - 2,7 tons. By the standards of 70 tons, the machine is nonsense. Of course, the transmission also grows up, but it is quite comparable with the engine. 2740/70 = 39,14 l / s / t, this is absolutely crazy thrust-weight ratio.

                    Speaking of transmission. Grandfathers did not have cars with electric motors of 500 l / s. And now there is.
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 29 October 2017 14: 40
                      +1
                      Quote: Negro
                      Yes, but it’s not so significant

                      Essentially, not essential, what's the difference? This will require an even greater “counterweight” in the stern, which in turn will require an increase in power.
                      As well as the entire transmission and suspension.
                      1. Negro
                        Negro 29 October 2017 15: 51
                        +1
                        Quote: Spade
                        This will require an even greater “counterweight” in the stern, which in turn will require an increase in power.

                        Again.
                        One extra hp power costs less than 1 kg of weight. Let 2, given the transmission. With a counterweight - 4. Not such a problem.
                        Of all the main components of tank power - just the issue with mobility is resolved radically. As much as you want, as much as it will be.
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 29 October 2017 10: 44
      12
      The subject of discussion is only the frontal armor of the Merkava Corps.
      They argue whether it will withstand modern OBPS. For metal-ceramic and steel armor - the motor.
      Behind the engine is another vertical armor plate.
      The fact that scrap (or cumm. Stream) does not enter the fighting compartment is almost 100%.
      But there is a chance that the tank will be immobilized (albeit with a live crew).
      As for the side, rear and upper armor protection, Merkava has no competitors
      among modern tanks. Even close.
      (I considered only passive booking - without KAZ Trophy)
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 29 October 2017 10: 53
        +3
        Quote: voyaka uh
        The subject of discussion is only the frontal armor of the Merkava Corps.
        They argue whether it will withstand modern OBPS. For metal-ceramic and steel armor - the motor.
        Behind the engine is another vertical armor plate.
        The fact that scrap (or cumm. Stream) does not enter the fighting compartment is almost 100%.

        May be. But the tank that "defended" at the cost of losing mobility on the modern battlefield will be shot quickly. The goal is perfect.
        1. Settlement Oparyshev
          Settlement Oparyshev 29 October 2017 11: 06
          +4
          They may shoot and not. But there is a tiny BUT! The crew will try to dump and run away from the tank dump, where the air is full of fragments. It can climb into the next tank through the rear hatch and help the crew.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 29 October 2017 11: 15
            0
            Quote: p-k Oparyshev
            The crew will try to dump by running and diving away from the tank dump

            Directly under artillery fire?
            1. Settlement Oparyshev
              Settlement Oparyshev 29 October 2017 11: 26
              +6
              Well, not for the festive fireworks? It seems to shoot! Are you really naive or seem? Then how lucky, funnels, track tankers to help
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 29 October 2017 12: 04
                +4
                Quote: p-k Oparyshev
                Are you really naive or seem?

                For a person who is confident that a tank that has lost mobility is better than being on the move, perhaps my questions will seem naive ...

                Or maybe I'm just gently bringing you to the conclusion, are you writing nonsense?
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 29 October 2017 12: 32
                  +5
                  "For a person who is confident that a tank that has lost mobility is better,
                  than being on the move "///

                  No. The comparison is: 1) a tank that has lost mobility with the one who left it and
                  crew and 2) a damaged tank with a dead crew.
                  I remind you that in 2003, Abrams uranium OBPS were found in T-72 engines.
                  And the inlet was in the forehead of the buildings. Through penetration through all
                  fighting compartment.
                  In this sense, an immobilized tank is not a bad alternative.
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 29 October 2017 12: 42
                    +5
                    All these calculations would have the right to life. If the frontal armor of a tank with a front-engined engine would be the same as that of a tank with an aft engine. But not like that.
                    Therefore, the choice is between a tank with a live crew and a tank that has lost mobility, and whose crew chooses to die inside or outside.
                    1. voyaka uh
                      voyaka uh 29 October 2017 13: 02
                      +5
                      “If the frontal armor of a tank with a front-engined engine would be like that” ///

                      Frontal armor adequate to modern threats - only Abrams with his uranium inlays. All other MBTs are weaker. And DZ against uranium scrap - to a dead poultice.
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 29 October 2017 13: 10
                        +8
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        Frontal armor adequate to modern threats - only at Abrams

                        Who cares who has it “adequate”, who doesn’t. The rear location of the engine allows you to make the frontal armor of the hull corny heavier and thicker.
                      2. Negro
                        Negro 29 October 2017 16: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: Spade
                        The rear location of the engine allows you to make the frontal armor of the hull corny heavier and thicker.

                        And if you move the tower back? There will be problems with the declination angles of the gun, but you might think how to solve it ...
                2. 7gor
                  7gor 29 October 2017 13: 31
                  +1
                  Indeed it is
            2. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 29 October 2017 12: 46
              12
              Tankers always tried to leave the wrecked tank.
              Since a fire breaks out and spreads quickly and unpredictably,
              and detonation is unexpected. And in many cases even
              during an intense battle.
              In the Merkava tank there is an opportunity to exit secretly - through the back door, and not through the upper hatches that are shot through. Which also increases the chances of salvation.
        2. Settlement Oparyshev
          Settlement Oparyshev 29 October 2017 11: 29
          +2
          The target is not ideal. They fight at night, in the daytime they breathe. And the shooting is not direct, but by kookies to adjust often or at random.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 29 October 2017 12: 10
            +3
            Quote: p-k Oparyshev
            The goal is not perfect.

            Perfect. Regardless of the time of day. A fixed target is ALWAYS easier to hit than a moving target. Any type of ammunition.
        3. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 29 October 2017 11: 29
          +6
          Quote: Spade

          May be. But the tank that "defended" at the cost of losing mobility on the modern battlefield will be shot quickly. The goal is perfect.

          In principle, in case of penetration, the tank is pushed in either due to the destruction of the MTO or because of the death of the crew. We prefer the first option.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 29 October 2017 12: 09
            +2
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            In principle, in case of penetration, the tank is pushed in either due to the destruction of the MTO or because of the death of the crew. We prefer the first option.

            This is an agitprop designed for people who are little familiar with geometry.
            1. Settlement Oparyshev
              Settlement Oparyshev 29 October 2017 12: 15
              +5
              Change the flag and do not disgrace our people with your stupidity.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 29 October 2017 12: 18
                +5
                Should a Russian not know geometry?


                "Geometry is the selling girl of anti-Semitism" (C)
                1. Professor
                  Professor 29 October 2017 12: 43
                  +4
                  Quote: Spade
                  Should a Russian not know geometry?

                  Combat General Tal was not Russian and preferred the "2" option.
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 29 October 2017 12: 56
                    +2
                    Quote: Professor
                    Combat General Tal was not Russian and preferred the "2" option.

                    Do not be proud of the problems with the education of military generals.
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 29 October 2017 14: 14
                      +5
                      Quote: Spade
                      Do not be proud of the problems with the education of military generals.

                      The name of this man with "problems with education" is carved on the wall at the Patton Museum in Ford Knox as one of the 5 outstanding tankers in the world. http://www.generalpatton.org/. About his "problems with education" is also here:
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 29 October 2017 14: 29
                        +2
                        Quote: Professor
                        The name of this man with "problems with education" is carved on the wall at the Patton Museum in Ford Knox as one of the 5 outstanding tankers in the world.

                        Ну и что?
                        Like "not only are we stupid"?
                      2. Professor
                        Professor 29 October 2017 15: 30
                        +5
                        Quote: Spade
                        Quote: Professor
                        The name of this man with "problems with education" is carved on the wall at the Patton Museum in Ford Knox as one of the 5 outstanding tankers in the world.

                        Ну и что?
                        Like "not only are we stupid"?

                        Or "maybe we are not so stupid"? wink
                        You watch a movie. There is also about the education of the creators of the tank.
            2. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 29 October 2017 12: 33
              +4
              Quote: Spade
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              In principle, in case of penetration, the tank is pushed in either due to the destruction of the MTO or because of the death of the crew. We prefer the first option.

              This is an agitprop designed for people who are little familiar with geometry.

              Really? And ours, based on the results of the 73 battles of the year, came to this conclusion. The main areas of armor penetration were in the tower and VLD. The penetration of the armor led to the loss of the car even without a fire.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 29 October 2017 12: 58
                +3
                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                And ours, based on the results of battles of 73 years, came to this conclusion.

                This is your problem. They do not cancel geometry. The closer the crew is to the frontal armor, the more secure it is.
          2. Professor
            Professor 29 October 2017 12: 34
            +8
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            In principle, in case of penetration, the tank is pushed in either due to the destruction of the MTO or because of the death of the crew. We prefer the first option.

            The tank that has lost its mobility is towed to a safe place, and towing is not always necessary for towing. In a safe place, the “dviglo with box” changes to new in a matter of minutes. The Germans do in 15 minutes, at competitions at the repair base ours did it on the Merkava-2 much faster. And again in battle. The dead crew is irreplaceable. We women do not give birth so quickly.


            1. padded jacket
              padded jacket 29 October 2017 12: 57
              +4
              Quote: Professor
              at the repair base, ours did it on Merkava-2 much faster.

              The next tales of the video is simply mounted and it does not show and does not take into account many of the moments necessary for removing the engine.
              And besides:
              The engines of the Merkava-4 tanks must be reanimated every 200 kilometers
              Power plants of the Israeli Merkava-4 super tanks - fail after every 200 km of run. It is reported by cursorinfo.co.il. It turns out that this problem can not be solved for 9 years.
              The Merkava Mk.4 is equipped with a 883 hp GD1500 diesel engine. American company "General Dynamics", which, in turn, is a licensed copy of the German motor MTU883.

              German power plants are traditionally considered very reliable and, perhaps, the problems lie in the quality of the American assembly or in the heavyweight construction of the highly protected "War Chariot", whose weight is close to 70 tons.
              http://www.vestnik-rm.ru/news-4-1600.htm
              1. Aaron Zawi
                Aaron Zawi 29 October 2017 13: 05
                +5
                Quote: quilted jacket

                And besides:
                The engines of the Merkava-4 tanks must be reanimated every 200 kilometers
                Power plants of the Israeli Merkava-4 super tanks - fail after every 200 km of run. It is reported by cursorinfo.co.il. It turns out that this problem can not be solved for 9 years.

                http://www.vestnik-rm.ru/news-4-1600.htm

                How old is this information? For a long time after all, all problems have been solved. who is who and you quilted jacket know this.
                1. padded jacket
                  padded jacket 29 October 2017 13: 09
                  0
                  Quote: Aron Zaavi
                  How old is this information? For a long time after all, all problems have been solved. who is who and you quilted jacket know this.

                  But will you show the photo with the T-72 ATGM tanks destroyed? Or, as always, the batteries in the phone have run out lol
                  1. Aaron Zawi
                    Aaron Zawi 29 October 2017 13: 47
                    +8
                    Quote: quilted jacket

                    But will you show the photo with the T-72 ATGM tanks destroyed? Or, as always, the batteries in the phone have run out lol

                    Phone in 1982 year? fool
              2. Professor
                Professor 29 October 2017 14: 22
                +5
                Quote: quilted jacket
                The next tales of the video is simply mounted and it does not show and does not take into account many of the moments necessary for removing the engine.

                Do not disgrace, my Iranian friend. The video is not Merkava at all, CEP. fool

                I won’t even ask you which ones are "not shown and not taken into account many The necessary moments for removing the engine, "because you are always saltier and you will turn to rudeness.
                1. padded jacket
                  padded jacket 29 October 2017 14: 58
                  +2
                  Quote: Professor
                  Do not disgrace, my Iranian friend. The video is not Merkava at all, CEP

                  I mean a completely different video with a Merkava engine replacement. Although you professor because of your young age does not understand lol
                  Quote: Professor
                  I won’t even ask you which ones “are not shown and do not take into account many of the necessary moments for removing the engine” because you are always soleshya and go over to rudeness.

                  So you don’t even ask, because all your statements are simply false, but they are always like that
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 29 October 2017 15: 34
                    +5
                    Quote: quilted jacket
                    I mean a completely different video with a Merkava engine replacement. Although you professor because of your young age does not understand

                    The fact that you mean to yourself in your brain we do not know can do. We are not telepathic here. I showed the video, and you as always sat in a puddle and now come up with fairy tales about the "other video", "another tank" ... fool

                    Quote: quilted jacket
                    So you don’t even ask, because all your statements are simply false, but they are always like that

                    And you, my Iranian friend, can you tell us the truth? For example, "are not shown and not taken into account many of the necessary moments for removing the engine"? Don’t make my slippers laugh. laughing
            2. Lopatov
              Lopatov 29 October 2017 12: 59
              +7
              Quote: Professor
              A lost tank is towed to a safe place.

              After battle.
              Quote: Professor
              towing is not always necessary for towing.

              Definitely. The corpses do not need to dismount.
              1. Professor
                Professor 29 October 2017 13: 34
                +4
                Quote: Spade
                Quote: Professor
                A lost tank is towed to a safe place.
                After battle.

                Judaism does not prohibit towing during the battle. Even developed a special coupling that does not require dismounting.

                Quote: Spade
                Definitely. The corpses do not need to dismount.

                Why the "corpses"? Your crew survived:
                Quote: Spade
                Therefore, the choice is between a tank with live crew and a tank that has lost mobility, the crew of which chooses to die inside or outside.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 29 October 2017 14: 37
                  +6
                  Quote: Professor
                  Judaism does not prohibit towing during the battle.

                  Question: if the Israeli military notice an attempt to tow one of the wrecked tanks during the repulsion of the attack, they will not counteract this?
                  You answer me, "Of course they will, they have brains." So why are you convinced that the enemy does not have them? So accepted?
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 29 October 2017 15: 46
                    +5
                    1.
                    Quote: Spade
                    Therefore, the choice is between a tank with a live crew and a tank that has lost mobility, and whose crew chooses to die inside or outside.

                    You already decide whether the crew is alive in your formula. Either do we have a battle tank with a dead crew or a tank with a live crew that has lost mobility? And it turns out that you offer us to challenge the axiom that it is better to be rich and healthy than the poor and sick.

                    2.
                    Quote: Spade
                    Question: if the Israeli military notice an attempt to tow one of the wrecked tanks during the repulsion of the attack, they will not counteract this?
                    You answer me, "Of course they will, they have brains." So why are you convinced that the enemy does not have them? So accepted?

                    The experience of military operations in recent years, so 80 shows that damaged tanks are restored and returned to battle, and not always years after the battle, and sometimes directly in the same battle. The experience of fighting in our sandbox shows that repair crews at the forefront work wonders. That is why on our tank, replacing an engine with a gearbox takes minutes. You have a different concept. Tens of thousands of tanks, even more tankers. You are not exchanged for repairs. Therefore, the standard for replacing your engine changes for days. Why faster? After all, there are a dime a dozen tanks, and even more tankers. request

                    PS
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 29 October 2017 17: 40
                      +2
                      Quote: Professor
                      You already decide live crew in your formula.

                      In my formula, the crew is either alive because the thicker armor protected both him and the engine, or is dead, because the tank was immobilized “for the sake of saving the crew”.
                    2. Shishiga
                      Shishiga 29 October 2017 22: 34
                      +1
                      Professor, and you in the know: 1 of our standards for engine replacement ????
                      2 tasks of repair units for restoration of equipment and their separation by tasks. ??
                      I suspect that this is also known to you, like your revelations of the Torah, and therefore do not rubbish like this of yours: "You have a different concept. There are tens of thousands of tanks, even more tankers. You are not exchanging for repairs. Therefore, the standard for replacing the engine "You’re changing for days. But why faster? Tanks to replace because a dime a dozen, and tankers even more." (with)
                      1. Mestny
                        Mestny 9 January 2018 13: 13
                        -1
                        This is his evil irony, saturated with hatred of the Russians.
                        As always.
                    3. 4thParasinok
                      4thParasinok 1 November 2017 16: 04
                      0
                      [quote = professor] The experience of military operations over the past 80 years shows that damaged tanks recover and return to battle, and not always years after the battle, and sometimes directly in the same battle. The experience of fighting in our sandbox shows that repair crews at the front line work wonders [/ quote] https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2017-10/150928136
                      4_main-qimg-3daff725baed5ca81489a8a14b4e644a-c.jp
                      g
                      [/ Quote]
                      wow, and they just so under fire change dviglo sunbathing on a tower? Well, don’t hold us for your compatriots.
            3. Negro
              Negro 29 October 2017 13: 25
              +6
              Quote: Professor
              We women do not give birth so quickly.

              Maybe it's better to focus on the women, and not on the tanks)))?
      2. prodi
        prodi 29 October 2017 10: 54
        +1
        your “sandwich” is larger and heavier than the equal in protecting traditional
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 29 October 2017 10: 57
          0
          Volumetric - et yes A is about the same in weight.
    3. citizen242
      citizen242 30 October 2017 22: 29
      0
      It is necessary to change the attitude towards people.
  16. Doliva63
    Doliva63 29 October 2017 10: 35
    +9
    Why is this article? We, like, are not going to fight with Israel yet, why are the horror stories? Well, Merkava doesn’t pull on a model of tank-firing.
  17. groks
    groks 29 October 2017 10: 46
    +4
    Strange article. If the tank is dug up to the ears, then how to hit it in something other than a tower?
    In case of defeat in an open place in the VLD with penetration, the engine will be disabled and the tank will become a fixed target. Most likely, without breaking, the MTO will suffer.
    For modern PTR, a significantly tilted VLD is not an obstacle. Rather, the opposite.
    About a magic ballistic tip - a fairy tale.
  18. prodi
    prodi 29 October 2017 11: 03
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    Volumetric - et yes A is about the same in weight.

    I don’t agree, composite armor of such a volume can be lighter and stronger
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 29 October 2017 11: 30
      +5
      At the time of the creation of the Merkava, such a layout, apparently, was justified. In addition, there is a clear "in the beginning was the word." Initially, there was the concept of the combat use of the tank. Under local conditions, the local enemy, and apparently under the "game of defense". Then, based on this concept, a new machine was developed from scratch. With the front position of the engine, they didn’t have to attack, without stabilized weapons, with a "micro-landing" capable of transporting infantry cover that would not allow the advancing infantry of the enemy to reach the RPG range.

      Well, then there was the evolutionary development of the tank. And not the fact that modern Israeli tankers are satisfied with "protection at the cost of loss of mobility." But nothing can be done. Too expensive.
  19. Stoler
    Stoler 29 October 2017 11: 06
    +5
    I think "Merkava" one of the best tanks in the world. At least by the fact that he is the most belligerent, and thanks to this experience, various improvements are constantly being introduced into him to improve the survivability of the machine and crew.
    1. 32363
      32363 29 October 2017 14: 57
      0
      Quote: Stoler
      I think "Merkava" one of the best tanks in the world. At least by the fact that he is the most belligerent, and thanks to this experience, various improvements are constantly being introduced into him to improve the survivability of the machine and crew.

      Germans will not do bad
    2. Shishiga
      Shishiga 9 November 2017 20: 26
      +1
      Fighting with whom ??? With infantry during the dispersal of an intifada armed with slingshots. Where there were more serious opponents there were serious problems.
  20. tchoni
    tchoni 29 October 2017 11: 52
    0
    ACHIEVEMENTS OF ISRAELI NAVIGATION TROOPS
    It is completely incomprehensible how the author took the material for this chapter. There are no intelligible links .... Isn't that a fantasy?
  21. Couchexpert
    Couchexpert 29 October 2017 12: 21
    +1
    That one had to be sawed. Here lobovuha so lobovuha. The crew is sitting at the engine, and at the gas tank, and ammunition.

    Although a peculiar self-propelled gun version is presented here, modern technologies will make it possible to create a tower version.
    More:
    http://btvt.narod.ru/raznoe/vbtt_1991_komponovka.
    htm
  22. chidoryan
    chidoryan 29 October 2017 12: 25
    +3
    The Israelis have a powerful tank, what can I say. Also with Trophy. About the security of “Merkava” is more or less clear. But the combat characteristics? The Israelis write that he did not encounter the T-72, but were there tank dueling involving other tanks? And in general, are they going to develop a successor to the Merkava? It is interesting which way Israeli engineering in tank building will go.
    1. padded jacket
      padded jacket 29 October 2017 12: 40
      0
      Quote: chidoryan
      And in general, are they going to develop a successor to the Merkava? It is interesting which way Israeli engineering in tank building will go.

      In this direction, the Israeli design idea in the development of tank building goes lol Indeed, in order to drive the Bedouins with the “Berdans” on camels in the desert, there are no special masterpieces smile
      1. Professor
        Professor 29 October 2017 12: 50
        +5
        Quote: quilted jacket
        In this direction, the Israeli design idea in the development of tank building goes

        Our Iranian friend sat in a puddle as always. Firstly, this is not a tank. Secondly, it’s not even an armored car. This is just a simulator, CEP. lol
        1. padded jacket
          padded jacket 29 October 2017 13: 06
          +3
          Quote: Professor
          Our Iranian friend sat in a puddle as always. Firstly, this is not a tank. Secondly, it’s not even an armored car. This is just a simulator, CEP. lol

          Our unhappy Jew emigrant is one of your concepts, which includes Carmel’s “tank” lol
          The first demonstration of the appearance of a promising Israeli armored car "Carmel"

          http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2618219.html
          1. Professor
            Professor 29 October 2017 14: 16
            +4
            Quote: quilted jacket
            In this direction, the Israeli design idea in the development of tank building goes


            Quote: quilted jacket
            Our unhappy Jew emigrant is one of your concepts, which includes Carmel’s “tank”

            The drain is counted. Rest, my Iranian friend. hi
            1. padded jacket
              padded jacket 29 October 2017 14: 54
              +1
              Quote: Professor
              The drain is counted.

              And where did you see the drain, a Jewish emigrant, a naive professor, you are impossible lol
      2. chidoryan
        chidoryan 29 October 2017 12: 57
        11
        this stupid mantra about “chasing the Bedouins” became obsolete exactly when Russia flew into the Syrian conflict. Chasing the Bedouins was not so simple that even the generals are dying ...
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 29 October 2017 13: 16
          +3
          Quote: chidoryan
          this stupid mantra about "drive Bedouins" is outdated

          Are you sure that the “Merkava” will show themselves better than the same “Abrams" of their probable opponent?
          And the Merkavs, and indeed the Israeli Armed Forces, indeed, every year more and more are sharpened by conflicts of low intensity, i.e. it is to “drive the Bedouins” into a collision with a knowingly weaker opponent. Good or not, time will tell.
          But the alarm bell rang already. In the form of the "Arab spring" and the rise to power in Egypt of terrorists.
          1. chidoryan
            chidoryan 29 October 2017 13: 44
            +5
            I do not think Merkava is the best tank, like Abrams. I don’t understand what the “best tank" is. You need to have the most accurate (non-advertising) performance characteristics in order to conduct a comparative analysis of the characteristics, and this will be a comparison of two horses in a vacuum. But the fact that Merkava is more than a successful car is a fact. But with Armata the same, for sure, nothing is clear. Will watch.
          2. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 29 October 2017 13: 56
            +4
            "Are you sure the Merkavas will show themselves better than the same Abrams?
            their likely adversary? "////

            The plus is that Israeli engineers know Abrams thoroughly. In him
            many Israeli patents - the technology of this tank for Israel is completely
            open (like Merkava technology for Americans).
            Abrams with weaker frontal armor are shipped to Arab countries.
            By gun, SLA, equality. Abrams has a more gritty engine,
            he can make sharp jerks, move faster and much quieter.
            Shells? Americans do not supply Arabs with their latest OBPS.

            "The Armed Forces of Israel, indeed every year more and more
            sharpened under conflicts of low intensity "///

            This is true, but not quite. As a goal, we have 600 Merkava-4s with KAZs.
            600 is enough for a big war.
          3. Professor
            Professor 29 October 2017 14: 18
            +3
            Quote: Spade
            And the Merkavs, and indeed the Israeli Armed Forces, indeed, every year more and more are sharpened by conflicts of low intensity, i.e. it is to “drive the Bedouins” into a collision with a knowingly weaker opponent. Good or not, time will tell.

            Where did you get this information? Have you been an observer in the military exercises of the Southern Military District? request
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 29 October 2017 14: 41
              +2
              Quote: Professor
              Where did you get this information?

              I can read ...
              1. Professor
                Professor 29 October 2017 15: 52
                +5
                Quote: Spade
                Quote: Professor
                Where did you get this information?

                I can read ...

                Share reading matter, otherwise I’m reading the wrong newspapers and in vain I listen to the Retsuat Bitachon program three times a week.
                Maybe you have information for what Merkava has in a full-time BOPS ammunition? "Bedouins drive"? Why is every crew trained to shoot these expensive crowbars before clouding? And further down the list.
        2. 4thParasinok
          4thParasinok 1 November 2017 16: 12
          0
          Quote: chidoryan
          this stupid mantra about “chasing the Bedouins” became obsolete exactly when Russia flew into the Syrian conflict. Chasing the Bedouins was not so simple that even the generals are dying ...

          the main thing is that you’ll survive while sitting on the couch, and Syria is not Bedouin, you taught geography poorly.
      3. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 29 October 2017 12: 57
        +5
        "to drive Bedouins with" berdans "on camels in the desert special masterpieces and do not need" ///

        Why are you talking about Hezbollah? Do not humiliate her fighters, they did not deserve it. negative
        1. padded jacket
          padded jacket 29 October 2017 13: 01
          +5
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Why are you talking about Hezbollah? Do not humiliate her fighters, they did not deserve it.

          Yeah, I remember how you Israeli Jews in 2006 tried to drive Hezbollah "Aniki warriors" lol
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 29 October 2017 13: 50
            +7
            Quote: quilted jacket

            Yeah, I remember how you Israeli Jews in 2006 tried to drive Hezbollah "Aniki warriors" lol ]

            And the result is very good. Silence in the Israeli north has been 11 years old.
            1. padded jacket
              padded jacket 29 October 2017 14: 53
              +3
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              Silence in the Israeli north has been 11 years old.

              Yeah, the Hezbollah fighters are quietly training at this time and amassing missile potential for retaliatory strikes against the Tel Aviv regime lol
              1. Aaron Zawi
                Aaron Zawi 29 October 2017 15: 12
                +4
                Quote: quilted jacket
                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                Silence in the Israeli north has been 11 years old.

                Yeah, the Hezbollah fighters are quietly training at this time and amassing missile potential for retaliatory strikes against the Tel Aviv regime lol

                It is as much as you like. Let them train, if only they would not come to us.
                1. padded jacket
                  padded jacket 29 October 2017 15: 16
                  +2
                  Quote: Aron Zaavi
                  It is as much as you like. Let them train, if only they would not come to us.

                  So you Israeli Jews yourself and created a situation in which all the neighbors hate you because they occupied Palestine, the Golan Heights and other territories of their neighbors.
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 29 October 2017 18: 05
                    +5
                    Quote: quilted jacket
                    Quote: Aron Zaavi
                    It is as much as you like. Let them train, if only they would not come to us.

                    So you Israeli Jews yourself and created a situation in which all the neighbors hate you because they occupied Palestine, the Golan Heights and other territories of their neighbors.

                    Arabs love Iran.
                    Already 1400 years approximately.
              2. Negro
                Negro 29 October 2017 15: 53
                +2
                Quote: quilted jacket
                Yeah, Hezbollah fighters are quietly training and amassing missile potential.

                Hezbollah seems to fit into the Syrian theme. So she only dreams of peace.
                1. Professor
                  Professor 29 October 2017 15: 59
                  +3
                  Quote: Negro
                  Quote: quilted jacket
                  Yeah, Hezbollah fighters are quietly training and amassing missile potential.

                  Hezbollah seems to fit into the Syrian theme. So she only dreams of peace.

                  Our Iranian friend does not speak Russian. Punctuation is not familiar to him at all. And here he mixed up the root words "calmly" and "calmly." hi
              3. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 29 October 2017 18: 04
                +4
                Quote: quilted jacket
                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                Silence in the Israeli north has been 11 years old.

                Yeah, the Hezbollah fighters are quietly training at this time and amassing missile potential for retaliatory strikes against the Tel Aviv regime lol

                Let them save up. That's just a pity Lebanon.
          2. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 29 October 2017 18: 03
            +3
            Quote: quilted jacket
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Why are you talking about Hezbollah? Do not humiliate her fighters, they did not deserve it.

            Yeah, I remember how you Israeli Jews in 2006 tried to drive Hezbollah "Aniki warriors" lol

            Did you participate in the fighting? :)
          3. 4thParasinok
            4thParasinok 1 November 2017 16: 22
            +1
            Quote: quilted jacket
            Yeah I remember how you Israeli Jews in 2006 tried to drive Hezbollah "Aniki warriors" lol

            Well, a small selection of photos:
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 29 October 2017 12: 54
      +7
      There was only one collision of Merkava-1 tanks with the Syrian T-62 in 1982.
      Counter battle on a mountain road in Lebanon from close range.
      With approximately the same losses: several tanks on each side.
      Israel was pleased that the security concept worked: the tankers did not die,
      wrecked tanks did not catch fire. The Syrians were also pleased: the latest
      Israeli tanks.
      1. chidoryan
        chidoryan 29 October 2017 12: 57
        +7
        how good it is when everyone is happy)
      2. Svarog51
        Svarog51 29 October 2017 15: 24
        +9
        Alex, I welcome you hi Somehow sluggishly there is a discussion. That would be Andrey Kars to connect. It is a pity, he very rarely began to enter the VO. Previously, such articles on passions could be equated to a tank battle. wink good
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 29 October 2017 15: 27
          +4
          Yes. Lopatov is a professional artilleryman.
          There are not enough tankers. And Kars in particular.
          1. padded jacket
            padded jacket 29 October 2017 15: 30
            +2
            Quote: voyaka uh
            And Kars in particular.

            Well, what kind of professional Kars? He’s just a modeller who pecks plastic models of tanks.
            1. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 29 October 2017 16: 08
              +9
              Quote: quilted jacket
              Quote: voyaka uh
              And Kars in particular.

              Well, what kind of professional Kars? He’s just a modeller who pecks plastic models of tanks.

              Well, you’re just a propagandist-anti-Semite, without any clue in military subjects.
          2. Svarog51
            Svarog51 29 October 2017 16: 18
            +9
            There are not enough tankers. And Kars in particular.

            Andrei, although not a pro, loves tanks. Information from him came at times more than sometimes in the article. This is a big plus in the discussion. Yes, and professional tankers were many, sorry, rarely began to appear. request
  23. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 29 October 2017 13: 24
    +6
    Lopatov,
    Both Merkava-4 and T-90 have no reserve for building frontal armor of the hull.
    Therefore, the T-90 is trying to compensate for its lack of remote sensing (which, according to
    Israeli specialists, unreliable), and the Merkava-4 - the "second line" of armor behind the engine.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 29 October 2017 14: 42
      +3
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Therefore, the T-90 is trying to compensate for its deficiency DZ

      Rather, the development of a new tank.
  24. exo
    exo 29 October 2017 13: 25
    +1
    Article, entertaining, clumsy language.
    "..... significantly eliminated the defeat of the tank ..." (c) Probably: "Significantly reduced ...."
  25. padded jacket
    padded jacket 29 October 2017 14: 51
    +1
    Quote: Aaron Zawi

    Phone in 1982 year? fool

    Oh Aron do not disgrace again.
    The expression "there was no phone" is a figurative concept like the "daughter of an officer" saying that the opponent is not able to confirm his information with a photo or video.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 29 October 2017 15: 15
      +3
      Quote: quilted jacket
      Quote: Aaron Zawi

      Phone in 1982 year? fool

      Oh Aron do not disgrace again.
      The expression "there was no phone" is a figurative concept like the "daughter of an officer" saying that the opponent is not able to confirm his information with a photo or video.

      What a shame? What do I know for the newspeak? Well sorry. And there are no photos. There is a report in the database magazine of the airborne brigade. Do I make you believe him?
      1. padded jacket
        padded jacket 29 October 2017 15: 25
        +1
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        What a shame? What do I know for the newspeak?

        And in that too.
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        There is a report in the database magazine of the airborne brigade. Do I make you believe him?

        Well, Hezbollah wrote that she knocked out more tanks in 2006 than you Jews showed.
        And indeed, in 1973, the Arabs said the same thing about the loss of Israel

        But this again is not confirmed by anything other than words and letters.
      2. Maki Avellevich
        Maki Avellevich 29 October 2017 20: 48
        +4
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        What a shame? What do I know for the newspeak? Well sorry. And there are no photos. There is a report in the database magazine of the airborne brigade. Do I make you believe him?


        with me in the 2000-2005 reserve, Parsar 8 (reconnaissance of a tank brigade), one mandator served, Joseph to mine.
        somehow in the gas he told us young that he participated in this battle. according to the story, they rode in 82 on the eastern front. he served Orev (anti-tank team in jeeps)
        stopped under the bridge to relax. at some point, a frightened observer came closer and told about a column of Syrian tanks approaching the bridge.
        it was too late to run away.
        a column passed over them and when they retired about 500 meters away, the commander took and offered to attack the Syrian tanks. Joseph honestly admitted that they were transplanted by capillary. but shot back successfully.
        I heard such a story sitting on m113 not far from Dir al-Balah.
        1. Gml
          Gml 31 October 2017 13: 49
          +1
          palsar 8
          respect
          when they left 500 meters away, the commander took and offered to attack the Syrian tanks
          Bullshit, there was an ambush, at the foot of Baruch Mountain, tanks tore their claws towards Damascus along the Beirut-Damascus road, where they poked.
          1. Maki Avellevich
            Maki Avellevich 31 October 2017 21: 01
            +2
            Quote: gml
            Bullshit, there was an ambush, at the foot of Baruch Mountain, tanks tore their claws towards Damascus along the Beirut-Damascus road, where they poked.


            that does not dock with -
            when they left 500 meters away, the commander took and offered to attack the Syrian tanks
            ?
            1. Gml
              Gml 31 October 2017 21: 23
              0
              under the bridge to relax. At some point, a frightened observer came closer and told about a column of Syrian tanks approaching the bridge.
              From the place of ambush and shooting to the road more than one and a half kilometers, and such a swamp between them that the tank drowned there. But that's another story.
  26. Kolin
    Kolin 29 October 2017 15: 11
    0
    Bggg. Interestingly Rastopshin in the course about lead-1 and 2? Well, the rut about the mega-armor of the Carrot is also funny.
  27. Pogrom
    Pogrom 29 October 2017 15: 26
    +7
    I still do not understand, due to which the author concludes that the forehead of the body is 900 mm from bobs instead of 750? Type Plus 150 mm engine and bulkhead? Lol Liberal games are so liberal. In the forehead of the hull, any modern tank will pierce the chariot, after which it will become a dead load on the battlefield and here the magic back door will come in handy for the crew. Well, that’s unless of course the enemy will sit and look at the fleeing tankmen and will not let them go. In fact, because of this door, all the boron cheese with such a stupid layout was started. Slightly more likely to survive a bruised forehead and the ability to evacuate the wounded. All. The rest is only cons. CASE forehead there is dead, horse weight, swing after a shot, due to poor stabilization - get a sign. From the pros: a good stable tower (you can dig in and almost bunker) and the presence of KAZ. For offensive operations, this tank is not suitable from the word in general, which was proved by the Baboons in Lebanon in 2006. His layout is stupid, neither before nor after did anyone come up with a forward engine. Plus, nobody wants to buy this stuff either. In short, an attempt by the Jews, with the help of the Germans, to play tanks. For its desert, against donkey lovers, it’s quite normal. To meet a serious opponent ... Chinese fakes are even better than this kosher misunderstanding.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 29 October 2017 18: 12
      +4
      Quote: PogrOm
      I still do not understand, due to which the author concludes that the forehead of the body is 900 mm from bobs instead of 750? Type Plus 150 mm engine and bulkhead? Lol Liberal games are so liberal. In the forehead of the hull, any modern tank will pierce the chariot, after which it will become a dead load on the battlefield and here the magic back door will come in handy for the crew. Well, that’s unless of course the enemy will sit and look at the fleeing tankmen and will not let them go. In fact, because of this door, all the boron cheese with such a stupid layout was started. Slightly more likely to survive a bruised forehead and the ability to evacuate the wounded. All. The rest is only cons. CASE forehead there is dead, horse weight, swing after a shot, due to poor stabilization - get a sign. From the pros: a good stable tower (you can dig in and almost bunker) and the presence of KAZ. For offensive operations, this tank is not suitable from the word in general, which was proved by the Baboons in Lebanon in 2006. His layout is stupid, neither before nor after did anyone come up with a forward engine. Plus, nobody wants to buy this stuff either. In short, an attempt by the Jews, with the help of the Germans, to play tanks. For its desert, against donkey lovers, it’s quite normal. To meet a serious opponent ... Chinese fakes are even better than this kosher misunderstanding.

      2006 is not an indicator - there was no saturation of the terrain with troops under the conditions of guerilla. There was no need to enter tanks there at all. The rest - when we meet with a serious enemy with an equal in number and quality of tank group - we will talk.
      1. Pogrom
        Pogrom 29 October 2017 18: 24
        +6
        What is not an indicator? Because there were big losses? There will be saturation with the military, there will be losses even greater, as in the 73 year war. And as they wrote above, the Merkavs met in battle with 62. With equal losses. in a battle with modern tanks, it’s better to immediately bury it in the tower and pray that the enemy does not have aircraft. Nothing will save this more agile colossus ...
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 30 October 2017 00: 25
          +3
          Quote: PogrOm
          What is not an indicator? Because there were big losses? There will be saturation with the military, there will be losses even greater, as in the 73 year war. And as they wrote above, the Merkavs met in battle with 62. With equal losses. in a battle with modern tanks, it’s better to immediately bury it in the tower and pray that the enemy does not have aircraft. Nothing will save this more agile colossus ...

          1) in 1973, naked tanks without infantry were allowed without reconnaissance to destroy the Egyptian bridgehead - hence the heavy losses from ATGMs
          2) During the war with partisans, the territory is cleared by infantry, saturated with troops, which was not done in 2006.
          3) If there are a large number of drones, enemy equipment will be detected in advance and no superiority in maneuverability will help anyone.
          1. Pogrom
            Pogrom 30 October 2017 00: 39
            +5
            1) These are the problems and shortcomings of the command. How these problems and shortcomings are made of merkava, a good tank which, the enemy, I do not understand what to take.
            2) See above.
            3) Superiority in maneuverability is needed not to make detection difficult, but to deliver the tank’s guns to the firing range as quickly as possible. That allows you to greatly influence the outcome of the battle both in defense and in attack. Plus you can run away faster, change position, etc. Markov, this is a bunker that will not have time to go anywhere. For a country the size of a football field, this is not so critical. Another thing, nobody else needs this bunker with a gun for nothing.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 30 October 2017 08: 24
              +1
              Quote: PogrOm
              1) These are the problems and shortcomings of the command. How these problems and shortcomings are made of merkava, a good tank which, the enemy, I do not understand what to take.
              2) See above.
              3) Superiority in maneuverability is needed not to make detection difficult, but to deliver the tank’s guns to the firing range as quickly as possible. That allows you to greatly influence the outcome of the battle both in defense and in attack. Plus you can run away faster, change position, etc. Markov, this is a bunker that will not have time to go anywhere. For a country the size of a football field, this is not so critical. Another thing, nobody else needs this bunker with a gun for nothing.

              The "tank" of the Israelis are trained well, as well as the accuracy of shooting :)
              1. Pogrom
                Pogrom 30 October 2017 13: 41
                +2
                What is tanking? Jewish tank biathlon? We invited them this year as well as the “Westerners”. No one came. Why, they could show their skills. But no, apparently so as not to break the myth of coolness, it is better to sit at home and shoot for 5 km in some sort of barn.
                1. viktorch
                  viktorch 31 October 2017 14: 32
                  +1
                  For the sake of justice, the biathlon show, which does not say anything about the real capabilities of technology in battle, is spectacular, fun and actually everything.
                  comparing the measure4 and t72 is incorrect, the price tag of the tank is such that it actually needs to be compared with t14, or with the latest modifications of the 90th cranberry.
                  1. Pogrom
                    Pogrom 31 October 2017 16: 12
                    +2
                    This is not a show at all, but a competition of crews and equipment, which, for the sake of PR and raising the prestige of the sun, is presented as a show. Similar competitions are also held in the West, they just don’t get there like that. On the other hand, if the crew didn’t show anything at such competitions, then it’s both in battle. And 72 can be compared with carrots. So far, these tanks are the most likely opponents. Not with the leopard, however, to merkave to fight. Although this is possible. Turkey freaks out and hello.
    2. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 29 October 2017 21: 48
      +3
      Quote: PogrOm
      CASE forehead there is dead, horse weight, swing after a shot, due to poor stabilization - get a sign. From the pros: a good stable tower (you can dig in and almost bunker) and the presence of KAZ. For offensive operations, this tank is not suitable from the word in general, which was proved by the Baboons in Lebanon in the 2006 year. His layout is stupid, neither before nor after did anyone come up with a forward engine. Plus, nobody wants to buy this stuff either. In short, an attempt by the Jews, with the help of the Germans, to play tanks. For its desert, against donkey lovers, it’s quite normal. To meet a serious opponent ... Chinese fakes are even better than this kosher misunderstanding.

      The forehead of the Corps and the stabilization of the guns are not inferior to the T-72 / 90. Based on the results of the Syrian war, the T-72 / 90 for offensive action is not suitable from the word at all. And who can buy it from us? Arabs sell you or the Americans. There are almost no tank troops in the aircraft, or European junk is in service. The Chinese and Koreans produce themselves. So to whom to sell? No, it could be cheap, but we do not need it.
      1. Pogrom
        Pogrom 29 October 2017 22: 37
        +5
        Quote: Aaron Zawi
        The forehead of the Corps and the stabilization of the guns are in no way inferior to the T-72/90.

        Write in mm how many there and there, if in the know. If not inferior, carrots are 20 tons heavier. Oh these great Jewish constructor. Where to us to them.

        Quote: Aaron Zawi
        Based on the results of the Syrian war, T-72/90 for offensive action is not suitable from the word at all.

        And what exactly happened in this war to draw such conclusions? 72 is a tank that was SPECIALLY designed for rapid maneuver warfare in large quantities. For a quick and successful breakthrough of the Soviet army to Lamanche. Western tanks are a tank destroyer with a tower to hold this armada. Your chariot with its door in the train ... is for your tankers to quickly jump out of the tank at the slightest skuher. And then God forbid, again, 400 broads exchange for one brake.

        Quote: Aaron Zawi
        And who can buy it from us?

        Someone who has money and needs tanks. The same Azerbaijanis, for example. The bottom line is that nobody needs this stuff.

        Quote: Aaron Zawi
        No, it could be cheap, but we do not need it.

        You do not trash this rubbish for cheap and expensive nobody needs him. And if you were willing, you would have sold them to Egypt, to your yesterday’s enemy. Yes, and Turkey, too. Gesheft doesn't smell. But the first bought Abrams, and the second sawed weak but their Altai, simultaneously utilizing their leopards in battle. And your trash, only for you, the great wars. Well, before the next war in Lebanon. Then again the tale of the great chariot is over.
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 30 October 2017 08: 29
          +2
          Quote: PogrOm

          Write in mm how many there and there, if in the know. If not inferior, carrots at 20 tons are heavier. Oh these great Jewish constructor. Where to us before them. []
          Well, our tankers do not want to feel like a herring in a barrel.


          And what exactly happened in this war to draw such conclusions? 72 is a tank which was SPECIALLY designed for rapid maneuver warfare in large quantities. For a quick and successful breakthrough of the Soviet army to Lamanche. Western tanks are a tank destroyer with a tower to hold this armada. Your chariot with its door in the train ... is for your tankers to quickly jump out of the tank at the slightest skuher. And then God forbid, again 400 Babohas exchange for one brake.]

          Well, how did they break through? Judging by the number of equipment wrecked in Syria, so it breaks through all the means of vocational training. I will not speak for Western tanks, and Merkava is a completely normal tank. With its pros and cons. But we don’t leave our people.

          Someone who has money and needs tanks. The same Azerbaijanis, for example. The bottom line is that nobody needs this stuff.]
          And how many sold Japanese, Korean, French, Chinese or British tanks? Or are they all trash?


          You do not trash this rubbish for cheap and expensive nobody needs him. And if you were willing, you would have sold them to Egypt, to your yesterday’s enemy. Yes, and Turkey, too. Gesheft doesn't smell. But the first bought Abrams, and the second sawed weak but their Altai, simultaneously utilizing their leopards in battle. And your trash, only for you, the great wars. Well, before the next war in Lebanon. Then again the tale of the great chariot is over.

          You can speak without ridiculous arrivals? But trash or not trash leave us to judge.
          1. Pogrom
            Pogrom 30 October 2017 13: 38
            +5
            Quote: Aaron Zawi
            Well, our tankers do not want to feel like a herring in a barrel.

            Yeah, and for that, the tank has an extra 20 tons. Your tankers feel like they are in a motionless bunker. As for the driver, that for the commander in the carriages and in the western sheds there is equally little space. In the shed there is a lot of place only with the loader, so that the crowbars in the cannon are shoved freely. In the backward, a tank is not a car there and should not be spacious.

            Quote: Aaron Zawi
            Well, how did they break through? Judging by the number of equipment wrecked in Syria, so it breaks through all the means of vocational training. I will not speak for Western tanks, and Merkava is a completely normal tank. With its pros and cons. But we don’t leave our people.


            In the event of a global war, would have broken through, no doubt. And they would come to visit you, see what remains after a nuclear strike. The fact that the tanks are knocked out by means of anti-tank war is the first step in understanding for you. Understanding the fact that a slow large barn is easier to knock out a small mobile tank. Next yourself.

            Quote: Aaron Zawi
            Merkava is quite a normal tank. With its pros and cons.

            I wrote about this. And for some reason you were offended and entered into an argument. Only in comparison are you farther than the old Soviet tanks. In a battle with modern ones, the caterpillars are wound on the tower and poured into the hatch. Another thing is that the broads do not have modern cars, so the situation is not critical.

            Quote: Aaron Zawi
            But we don’t leave our people.

            Pathos lyrics, no more.

            Quote: Aaron Zawi
            And how many sold Japanese, Korean, French, Chinese or British tanks? Or are they all trash?

            The British 38 pieces, this is the second challenger, far from imba. French for 300 only leklerk, this despite the fact that it is expensive as an airplane. Yapis and Koreans did not sell their tanks. The former are not perfect and expensive, the latter are very expensive. The Chinese sold a whole bunch of their tanks and organized production in Pakistan. Any questions?

            Quote: Aaron Zawi
            You can speak without ridiculous arrivals? But trash or not trash leave us to judge.

            Your problem is that you perceive the private opinion of a person who said badly about your child prodigy as a run over. As if you are personally the chief designer, but I doubted your genius. I understand that your flag prevents you from looking at things objectively, but if you are already in a dispute, tighten the materiel. You cannot replace it with patriotism. Otherwise, it's better not to write.
            1. 020500
              020500 31 October 2017 06: 58
              +2
              Well, protecting our wunderwaffles, you don’t have to go to the point of absurdity.
              The Tiger and the IS-2 (as well as the T-26 and Ha-Go) are watching with bewilderment at your passage about the difficulties of destroying light mobile tanks.
              What size should the tank be in order to be difficult to see in modern detection tools? Buy it in a toy store?
              (And this despite the fact that even when the Americans discovered Iraqi tanks in the face glowing in the night light, the face of the tankman stuck out in the hatch)
              Where did you see the tanks rushing briskly across the battlefield? Tactics? No, not heard.
              What speed should he ride so that he doesn't get into it? While experienced pturists destroy cars moving at a speed of 150 km / h
              1. Pogrom
                Pogrom 31 October 2017 16: 35
                +2
                Quote: 020500
                Well, protecting our wunderwaffles, you don’t have to go to the point of absurdity.

                Where did I write about our prodigies? Each tachanka has pros and cons. And each tank has its place in the ranking. Carrot it exclusively IMHOThe bottom of this rating is from modern machines.

                Quote: 020500
                The Tiger and the IS-2 (as well as the T-26 and Ha-Go) are watching with bewilderment at your passage about the difficulties of destroying light mobile tanks.

                . You would also compare a rifle with an anti-tank rifle. Discount on the power of guns and optics at least. And yes, let it be known to you, one of the tactics for destroying a heavy tiger with two t-34s, even with a 76 mm cannon. Enter from two sides and while the Tiger points its drin on one fast tank (and the turret is spinning slowly, plus 34 fast, moving cart) the other shoots it into the side (and breaks through easy, even from 76mm). Here is an example of how two lighter and more mobile tanks with a less powerful weapon can fill up an imba.

                Quote: 020500
                What size should the tank be in order to be difficult to see in modern detection tools? Buy it in a toy store?
                (And this despite the fact that even when the Americans discovered Iraqi tanks in the face glowing in the night light, the face of the tankman stuck out in the hatch)

                Tanks are visible from space by satellites. Well let's throw out the binoculars. This is your logic. And after I saw, I still have to get there. And if he moves to get harder. And if it moves fast, it's even harder. Do you argue with that?

                Quote: 020500
                Where did you see the tanks rushing briskly across the battlefield? Tactics? No, not heard.

                In All major wars from World War I to Iraq 2003 Worn across the battlefield. Purely for counter terrorist operations NOT ONE TANK created, not created and not suitable. There are only "urban body kits". Next yourself.

                Quote: 020500
                What speed should he ride so that he doesn't get into it? While experienced pturists destroy cars moving at a speed of 150 km / h

                And you, where did you see cars moving at a speed of 150 km per hour on the battlefield? Well, to confidently declare about experienced PTUristov? Watch the video of the same Syria. Almost all hits from vocational schools on FIXED tanks. Often in the open, when the crew is busy with incomprehensible what. Next yourself.
                1. 020500
                  020500 2 November 2017 07: 28
                  +1
                  Tanks need speed to make a short (up to 1 km) rapid rush to the front line of the enemy’s defense. And then the speed of the tank in battle will be limited by the speed of its own infantry.
                  And if the interaction with the infantry is not particularly established and it needs to be covered and dragged along, then a rapid jerk will be carried out at a speed of 10 km / h
                  It all depends not on the characteristics of the tanks but on the organization of combined arms combat. And the needs of combined arms combat are met by all modern tanks and there will be no difference between Merkava and T-72, 90.
                  There is a difference in matters of recovery, transfer and training. Those. either we quickly rank tanks, or we take new ones from a reserve. Therefore, it is better to have a lot of cheap tanks than few expensive ones. That is why our tanks are better than theirs, and all these comparisons are nonsense, all the same in the battle they will quickly kill both of them.
      2. mariusdeayeraleone
        mariusdeayeraleone 30 October 2017 04: 16
        +1
        Shaw? Than. T90 was not suitable for the offensive?
        1. MadCat
          MadCat 30 October 2017 06: 32
          +2
          Quote: mariusdeayeraleone
          Shaw? Than. T90 was not suitable for the offensive?

          without an air conditioner, the crew turns into pickled vegetables, the engine overheats, the armor does not hold modern BOPs, India is dissatisfied with electronics anyway ...
  28. Wolka
    Wolka 29 October 2017 15: 43
    +2
    the merkava itself is an outstanding tank, because it is built according to a non-classical scheme, and it really has a narrow specialization in application (heat and desert conditions), because the author’s conclusions are very relative, you can’t name the merkava the main battle tank, it requires additional security forces, but that's all but there is something to think about, by the way, the idea of ​​creating an armored capsule in a tank to protect the crew was proposed by the Jews at the merkava development stage, but apparently it was not implemented, traditions in tank building, the overall weight and price had a big impact ...
  29. padded jacket
    padded jacket 29 October 2017 15: 45
    +1
    Quote: Professor
    The fact that you mean to yourself in your brain we do not know can do. We are not telepathic here.

    I have no doubt how much I understand you generally understand and know little lol

    Quote: Professor
    And you, my Iranian friend, can you tell us the truth? For example, "are not shown and not taken into account many of the necessary moments for removing the engine"? Don’t make my slippers laugh. laughing

    Of course, unlike you, a Jewish emigrant, I always tell the truth.
    1. Professor
      Professor 29 October 2017 16: 02
      +4
      Quote: quilted jacket
      Quote: Professor
      And you, my Iranian friend, can you tell us the truth? For example, "are not shown and not taken into account many of the necessary moments for removing the engine"? Don’t make my slippers laugh.
      Of course, unlike you, a Jewish emigrant, I always tell the truth.

      Then we are waiting for your story. You're not a liar or a paid Iranian troll. wink
      1. padded jacket
        padded jacket 29 October 2017 16: 21
        +3
        Quote: Professor
        You're not a liar or a paid Iranian troll.

        Naturally I'm not like you professor lol
        Quote: Professor
        Then we are waiting for your story

        For example, what steps must be taken to replace the engine in Merkava -3 / 4 to remove additional protection from one of the sides of the tower, then remove the protection of the upper front sheet only then open the shutters of the "cover" of the engine compartment and dismantle the engine.
        The operation is quite long and troublesome, requires preliminary preparation and the presence of a "crane"
        1. Professor
          Professor 29 October 2017 16: 31
          +4
          Quote: quilted jacket
          For example, what steps must be taken to replace the engine in Merkava -3 / 4 to remove additional protection from one of the sides of the tower, then remove the protection of the upper front sheet only then open the shutters of the "cover" of the engine compartment and dismantle the engine.

          "padded jacket" no one asked you about Merkava-4. Read carefully what was written in my post.

          Quote: quilted jacket
          The operation is quite long and troublesome, requires preliminary preparation and the presence of a "crane"

          And I thought that the engine from the tank is removed without a crane, manually, as in the Islamic State of Iran. And how much is a "long enough and troublesome" operation to loosen the three bolts and raise the details with a 2 crane? How many man hours or what do you measure in Iran there?
          1. padded jacket
            padded jacket 29 October 2017 16: 33
            +2
            Quote: Professor
            "padded jacket" no one asked you about Merkava-4.

            What a "immigrant" Jew "merged" lol
            Quote: Professor
            And I thought that the engine from the tank is removed without a crane, manually, as in the Islamic State of Iran. And how much is a "long enough and troublesome" operation to loosen three bolts and raise 2 parts with a crane?

            Professor merged again laughing
            And then Iran is your expert on ours?
            You urgently need to change your nickname to - SCHOOLCHILDREN
            1. Professor
              Professor 29 October 2017 16: 36
              +4
              Quote: quilted jacket
              You urgently need to change your nickname to - SCHOOLCHILDREN

              Quote: Professor
              as always, you are going to be rude.

              And I was right. "padded jacket" merged and switched to rudeness.

              I already fed you today. Starve a bit and teach the materiel. hi
              1. padded jacket
                padded jacket 29 October 2017 16: 39
                +4
                Quote: Professor
                And I was right. "padded jacket" merged and switched to rudeness.

                Merged professor merged laughing
                So where is the photo of the T-1982 shot down in Lebanon in 72?
                Or, once again, will you run away from the site of the professor so as not to respond? laughing
          2. padded jacket
            padded jacket 29 October 2017 16: 35
            +4
            Quote: Professor
            And how much is a "long enough and troublesome" operation to loosen three bolts and raise 2 parts with a crane?

            That is, you professor want to say that on your Merkava additional protection of the tower and the front of the case is mounted on THREE bolts?
            Well, you’re a storyteller laughing
          3. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 29 October 2017 16: 40
            +9
            Quote: Professor

            "padded jacket" no one asked you about Merkava-4. Read carefully what was written in my post.
            And I thought that the engine from the tank is removed without a crane, manually, as in the Islamic State of Iran. And how much is a "long enough and troublesome" operation to loosen the three bolts and raise the details with a 2 crane? How many man hours or what do you measure in Iran there?

            In the four, due to the introduction of larger modules and additional protection VLD, replacing the engine is really more time-consuming. The standard is from the beginning of the removal of the module to the tightening of the last bolt 46 minutes. I, as a sergeant in the engineering battalion of the 401 tank brigade, can say for sure.
            1. Professor
              Professor 29 October 2017 18: 43
              +3
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              In the four, due to the introduction of larger modules and additional protection VLD, replacing the engine is really more time-consuming. The standard is from the beginning of the removal of the module to the tightening of the last bolt 46 minutes. I, as a sergeant in the engineering battalion of the 401 tank brigade, can say for sure.

              This process was much faster on the deuce than on the declared 46 minutes. Even the 15 minutes on the Leopard were an eternity compared to the deuce. Nevertheless, “46 minutes” is the blue dream of the most repairable tank in the world of T-72. wink

              PS
              In my private collection there is a video of engine replacement on both deuce and quartet. At the last “champions” did it faster than in 46 minutes. hi

              PPS
              Photos of teshek from Lebanon-82 are on פראש, however, let our Shiite troll search for it himself. lol
              1. padded jacket
                padded jacket 29 October 2017 18: 46
                +1
                Quote: Professor
                Photos of teshek from Lebanon-82 are on פראש, however, let our Shiite troll search for it. lol

                What a Jewish emigrant merged laughing
                Quote: Professor
                On the deuce this process was much faster than the stated 46 minutes. Even 15 minutes on the Leopard was an eternity compared to a deuce ......... In my private collection there is a video of engine replacement on both deuce and four. At the last “champions” did it faster than in 46 minutes.

                Yes, you have nothing real because you are a dreamer and no more lol
              2. Pogrom
                Pogrom 29 October 2017 19: 00
                +6
                72 is really, very maintainable and simple. Sarcasm smacks of profanity about it. As for the mercs, yes there, it is very necessary to quickly change the engine. Modern BOPS in lobeshnik and hello engine replacement.
                1. Professor
                  Professor 29 October 2017 20: 07
                  +4
                  Well, yes, on Merkava and Leopard it takes less than an hour to replace an engine with a gearbox.
                  The monoblock is installed along the longitudinal axis of the tank on three supports: two rear yokes and a front suspension support. On the T-80 tank, the engine replacement time is - 5 hours, of each gearbox - 4,5 hours. (The final report on the military operation of the 3 company in PrivO).

                  On the T-72 tank, the engine replacement time is 24 hours. (Report 38 NIIII BTT, "Monitoring the progress of military operation of T-72 tanks in the BVI). Replacement time for each gearbox 10,5 hours, guitars 17,7 hours (Guidelines for military repair of T-72 tanks).

                  And after that "72 is really, very maintainable and simple." wassat

                  Quote: PogrOm
                  As for the mercs, yes there, it is very necessary to quickly change the engine. Modern BOPS in lobeshnik and hello engine replacement.

                  In this you are right. For teshkam, replacing the engine when a BOPS hits the tashka, a tower of ten meters flies away from it and the tank cannot be restored. We’ll keep silent about the crew with a glass in their hands. soldier
                  1. Pogrom
                    Pogrom 29 October 2017 20: 22
                    +8
                    Yes, it's simple, on 72 you do not need to change the engine every time you sneeze. They did not set the task of making a modular design for quick change of the entire unit, it was already simple and reliable for its repair, and not a complete replacement, and did not even get to that then. From that time is longer. But the chariot was rumored to have problems with diesel engines for the first time. And the 72 engine is not located in the most dangerous place, unlike the chariot.
                    As for the flying towers, I will reveal a terrible secret, not a single tank is safe from such a rout. With bad luck, the tower will fly both at Ambram and Leo, and even at your nerd with a door in the ass. Although, I do not understand why for some it is so important. Well, will you have the coals in Merkava sit with a whole tower, will you continue to be proud that the tank looks whole? This wagon showed its combat "value" in 2006 in full. Trash made up to 30% due to foreign parts. The only excuse for its existence, loading the work and orders of the military-industrial complex, that’s all. And to be proud of the quick replacement of the engine, on the tank, where this engine will need to be changed by default after each battle - the lot of ignoramuses.
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 30 October 2017 13: 15
                      +4
                      Quote: PogrOm
                      Yes, it's simple, on 72 you do not need to change the engine every time you sneeze. They did not set the task of making a modular design for quick change of the entire unit, it was already simple and reliable for its repair, and not a complete replacement, and did not even get to that then. From that time is longer. But the chariot was rumored to have problems with diesel engines for the first time. And the 72 engine is not located in the most dangerous place, unlike the chariot.

                      You are wrong. Layazy teshes are trying to fix everything and sundry. For example, the Czech monoblock on the T-72 which takes only 2 hours to replace. About the "reliability" of Soviet engines you can add legends. The Germans nervously smoke on the sidelines. crying

                      http://www.nimda.co.il/image/users/199098/ftp/my_
                      files / t72 / T-72.pdf? id = 9266537

                      Quote: PogrOm
                      As for the flying towers, I will reveal a terrible secret, not a single tank is safe from such a rout. With bad luck, the tower will fly both at Ambram and Leo, and even at your nerd with a door in the ass. Although, I do not understand why for some it is so important.

                      It can be demolished for everyone, only for some it is very rare (as in the photo in the next comment where the tank was blown up by a land mine), while for others it is commonplace. Thanks to AZ and jokes about the Negro-Charger.

                      Quote: PogrOm
                      Well, will you have the coals in Merkava sit with a whole tower, will you continue to be proud that the tank looks whole?

                      When the tower is in place, it is not a fact that the crew died, but when the tower is lying about ten meters from the tank, the fate of the crew does not raise questions.

                      Quote: PogrOm
                      Trash made on 30% due to foreign parts. The only excuse for its existence, loading the work and orders of the military-industrial complex, that’s all.

                      "Junk" has shown itself very well. Only 5 irretrievable losses. But in 2014 in Gaza there were no losses at all, despite the Cornets who had no analogs in the world. And I do not care how many foreign components in the tank. At least 200%. In Hebrew, we don’t have the word "impot substitution." wink

                      Quote: PogrOm
                      And to be proud of the quick replacement of the engine, on the tank, where this engine will need to be changed by default after each battle - the lot of ignoramuses.

                      This is nothing more than your fantasies. hi
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. Pogrom
                        Pogrom 30 October 2017 23: 15
                        0
                        Hmm, I wrote a detailed answer, and it was deleted. Norm, Th.
                      3. Soho
                        Soho 31 October 2017 06: 10
                        +3
                        Professor Yesterday, 13: 15
                        When the tower is in place, it is not a fact that the crew died, but when the tower is lying about ten meters from the tank, the fate of the crew does not raise questions.

                        I have already written to you about the stupidity that has been hackneyed by many on the theme of “flying towers”. And you still repeat it persistently. The tower flies away from the detonation of the HE ammunition located in the tank’s ammunition. T72 / 90 has them, Leopard also has them - hence the flying towers. If Abrams had full-weighted OBs in the combat unit, then no armored doors and knock-out panels would save the crew from being hit by the energy of the explosion.
                  2. hohol95
                    hohol95 30 October 2017 00: 36
                    +5
                    Silence ... and on this crew ...
  30. stone
    stone 29 October 2017 15: 53
    +1
    The article is entitled "Survival of Merkava crews," but there is really no statistics on survival. Since there are practically no conflicts of armies nowadays. One needs to look at local conflicts with the "partisans" during which the main anti-tank guns are fought, both Russian tanks of various modifications, and the Western Abrams with the Leopards. The Merkavs were knocked out during the war in Lebanon in 2006 and somewhere I came across statistics, namely the average number of fatalities in the crews of Merkava 3 and Merkava 4. And the losses were not great, especially in the fours. So, it would be interesting to compare the statistics on crew losses in approximately similar conflicts between different tanks.
  31. beeper
    beeper 29 October 2017 15: 59
    +9
    A one-sided, in my opinion, article-deserved praises of a narrowly adapted, "blue-desert-block-and-patrol" Merkava tank, against the background of the undeserved groaning of widespread domestic armored vehicles and weapons? winked
    On the technical side, the Merkava tank deserves the attention of the developers of armored vehicles, as an example of the prevalence of concern for the "survival of the crew" over other combat characteristics, it is an interesting machine (the complex influence of Hitler’s Quartet, American Sherman, British Centurion and Chieftain ", and even the Soviet" fifty-four (covering the vulnerable shoulder of the tower with the protruding edge of the VLB), which is not surprising ...))), but nothing more.
    It must be remembered that after the 1973 war, which revealed a paradoxically low mobility on the battlefield of the lightly armored AMX-13 compared to the heavily armored Centurions (crews of the low-speed British, confident in their armored defense and not as worried as their counterparts in high-speed French ", searching for" creases "and" jumping "from cover to cover, acted more boldly and more effectively carried out combat missions), the Israelis clearly tended to the British concept of tank building — a well-protected, albeit sedentary, tank m There is a competent assessment (under the general leadership of the fighting tank general) of the tactics of the future use of the created tank, the Israelis ultimately received (according to the capabilities of local production and "unsanctioned cooperation") what was needed for their theater of operations wink .
    And, of course, any machine or mechanism is the fruit of reasonable compromises between what is desired and possible, regardless of whether it’s Merkava or T-90 with Armata yesif you “scrub well”, then in the most presumptuous “child prodigy”, if you wish, you can find “what you want (if you get too competitive?”) are flawed and exalted to heaven (and ignoring the inevitable fact that any “our shortcomings are are these extensions of our virtues? " winked ).
    In the production of BOPS, for the "unmeasured" number of Soviet tank guns it would be very "uneconomical" to use tungsten, so they tried to get by with alloyed steel alloys (albeit to the detriment of the "depth of penetration"), because it’s known that even getting a 125 mm blank into the tower without breaking through the armor, is it capable of inflicting heavy concussions on the tank crew and destroying UO devices?
    The final “general-patriotic paragraph” with a bald wish “to establish control in tank building” is more like an infantile author’s “self-justification” - a mole, is it not just that I hack it, but “it’s a shame for my power ?? ?? wink I do not impose.
  32. padded jacket
    padded jacket 29 October 2017 16: 14
    +1
    Quote: Aaron Zawi

    Well, you’re just a propagandist-anti-Semite, without any clue in military subjects.

    Come on, is Kars also a Jew from Ukraine?
    Although asking about something of a Jewish emigrant like you, Aron, who hardly even served in the army, is useless lol
    So how is it with the photos of the destroyed T-72?
    1. Professor
      Professor 29 October 2017 16: 21
      +3
      Quote: quilted jacket
      So how is it with the photos of the destroyed T-72?

      "padded jacket", I will post you a photo of the damaged T-72 from Lebanon-82 as soon as you answer for your words "many points necessary for removing the engine are not shown and are not taken into account." Chesslovo.
      1. padded jacket
        padded jacket 29 October 2017 16: 22
        +1
        Quote: Professor
        "padded jacket", I will post a photo of the damaged T-72 from Lebanon-82 as soon as you answer for your words "many points necessary for removing the engine are not shown and are not taken into account." Chesslovo.

        Already posted laid out and you have your photos lined in Lebanon T-72.
        1. Professor
          Professor 29 October 2017 16: 33
          +3
          Quote: quilted jacket
          Already posted laid out and you have your photos lined in Lebanon T-72.

          You're lying again, my Iranian friend. Not about the Germans but about Merkava-2 you did not post anything. Go learn the materiel.
          1. padded jacket
            padded jacket 29 October 2017 16: 40
            +2
            Quote: Professor
            You didn’t post anything about the Germans but about Merkava-2.

            Professor merged lol but I’ve always said that you really don’t know anything and you won’t be able to post photos of the damaged T-72 in Lebanon because you can’t write anything except.
            1. mariusdeayeraleone
              mariusdeayeraleone 29 October 2017 17: 00
              +2
              That's just here they have enough advertising for the merkava. As for soldering last year)))
            2. hohol95
              hohol95 30 October 2017 00: 50
              0
              Joke on the Internet here is such a work -
              Book: Two myths of one battle: the Syrian T-72 in the 1982 Lebanon War.
  33. Sedoy
    Sedoy 29 October 2017 17: 05
    +1
    Moysha Rastopshin has been scribbling vysery for ten years now
  34. alexey pimenov
    alexey pimenov 29 October 2017 17: 39
    +1
    Merkava never fought with the T-72. And the Indians “resented” the T90 for their internal reasons, it was necessary for the troops to vparit when it turned out that the Indian tank “turd”, the T90 continued to collect further. One of the minuses of the engine in front of the merkava, interference from hot air for aiming.
  35. wot
    wot 29 October 2017 21: 15
    +2
    Quote: Professor
    and about the Germans but about Merkava-2 you didn’t post anything.

    merkava 3 will do wink laughing
    1. Ncplc
      Ncplc 29 October 2017 21: 53
      +3
      And what should this photo show? Well, Merkava rides on burning tires, so what ??
  36. wot
    wot 29 October 2017 22: 11
    +3
    Quote: Ncplc
    Well, Merkava rides on burning tires, so what ??

    buy glasses laughing reached laughing top photos in the same vein, well, rides on skating rinks and let him ride laughing
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 29 October 2017 22: 46
      +3
      Quote: wot
      Quote: Ncplc
      Well, Merkava rides on burning tires, so what ??

      buy glasses laughing reached laughing top photos in the same vein, well, rides on skating rinks and let him ride laughing

      What strikes you Merkava surprises you?
  37. Clone
    Clone 30 October 2017 00: 31
    +2
    And why argue about whose tank is better ... when this very criterion of "best" is perennially looming before your eyes? Namely, the number of cars sold. fellow It’s not a separately bulged indicator, but their combination ...
    http://www.forbes.ru/biznes/349379-pyat-samyh-pro
    davaemyh-tankov-v-mire-est-li-konkurenty-u-rossiy
    skogo-bestsellera-t-90
    Israeli tanks "did not stand here." repeat
    1. ksp
      ksp 30 October 2017 00: 45
      +4
      Quote: Clone
      And why argue about whose tank is better ... when this very criterion of "best" is perennially looming before your eyes? Namely, the number of cars sold. It’s not a separately bulged indicator, but their combination ...

      VAZ 21011 (1974-1981) ---- 2 pcs.

      Porsche 911
      Over 25 years of production, more than 274 thousand units were produced in various modifications.

      Lada 10 times better Porsche wink
      Following your logic.
      laughing
      1. Pogrom
        Pogrom 30 October 2017 00: 59
        +4
        Giga and 911 cars of different classes and cost. There will be a difference in output and sales without the criterion of perfection of a car, because hi-tech sports cars, buy less often, inexpensive simple sedans, anyway. And if you compare MBT ... it is MBT. So, the demand, says something.
        PS: the "Great" merkva is generally not needed by anyone except the Jews.
  38. kig
    kig 30 October 2017 02: 09
    0
    That is, according to the author, crew survival issues need not be taken into account when evaluating the effectiveness of the tank? I wonder how those who fight against them will react to this.
  39. wot
    wot 30 October 2017 12: 51
    +1
    Quote: Aron Zaavi
    What strikes you Merkava surprises you?

    no she pleases me laughing waiting for the wreckage of f-35, 15, 16 is also suitable wink
  40. Livonetc
    Livonetc 30 October 2017 14: 13
    +4
    Quote: zenion
    Why didn’t they write how Merkava fought in the second Lebanon war. It would be interesting. They recall that it was 40 years ago, and fresh facts do not throw. That was in 2006. Write.

    Offhand from the Internet.
    “According to the data published in the Israeli newspaper Globes, serious damage can be judged. Of the 400 tanks of the three modifications involved in the operation (Mk2, Mk3, Mk4), 52 were hit. XNUMX vehicles were hit by ATGM missiles, two were blown up by high-explosive bombs. But Lebanese military estimates that the Israel Defense Forces lost more than twice as many tanks. "

    "The tank took part in the second Lebanon war in 2006. Then about 400 tanks were involved. Of the 400 tanks participating in the operation, three modifications (Mk2, Mk3, Mk4) were hit 52. Fifty vehicles were hit by ATGM missiles, two were blown up by HE mines. But according to Lebanese military estimates, the Israel Defense Forces lost more than twice as many tanks. During the offensive of the 401st Ikvot Hazar brigade, the best in the IDF, equipped with the latest Mk4 Merkavas, 11 out of 24 vehicles that took part in military operations were hit by anti-tank missiles. The enemy did not have heavy weapons, moreover, Israel ensured its complete air supremacy. Under such conditions, even losses officially reported by the Israeli media can be considered very large. Of the 50 Chariots hit by rockets, 22 (44%) had armor pierced, as a result of which 208 out of 30 crew members were killed and 25 were injured. Thus, the 2006 conflict years showed that it is not necessary to break through the armor of the Merkava to neutralize the car. To defeat a tank, just get into it. The statistics of the dead by type of tank: in three Merkavas Mk2, 10 people died, in four Mk3 - 9, in six Mk4 - 11. Hence the extremely disappointing conclusion: most of the crew members were killed in the most modern Israeli Merkava MK4 tanks. Only one conclusion can be drawn from this: the widely publicized defense of the Merkava Mk4 tank breaks even with outdated cumulative ammunition, not to mention modern means, such as the Konkurs and Kornet-E anti-tank systems. The situation is not better with the mine resistance of the Merkava Mk4. There are known cases of serious injuries and even deaths of crew members when these tanks were blown up by mines during hostilities. How this car will behave in the tropical jungle, on soft and swampy soils, in the absence of an extensive road network with hard surface, long distances, and plenty of rivers , swamps and rice plantations? There are no answers to these questions, since the Merkava Mk4 tests were not carried out in such climatic zones, there is no experience of using an Israeli tank in the difficult physical and geographical conditions of the SEA region. However, one does not need to be a major analyst to understand the obvious: the heavy tank Merkava Mk4, weighing 67 tons, will bog down the tower itself, becoming a helpless target. In addition, in this region there are very few stone bridges that can withstand the weight of an armored monster. And Merkava Mk4 will not be able to overcome water barriers on the bottom, because it does not have equipment for underwater driving. Another important detail that potential buyers pay attention to. In the production of the Israeli Merkava Mk4 tank, 28 percent of components are imported from abroad, including such important units as the engine and transmission. MT883 engine components are manufactured by MTU (Germany), assembled under license by General Dynamics Land Systems in the USA, and then exported to Israel as a GD883 power plant. The RK325 transmission is manufactured by Renk (Germany). This makes the production and export of Israeli tanks highly dependent on several foreign suppliers from different countries, which creates additional problems for buyers. The placement of a compartment for infantrymen, a stretcher with wounded or an additional set of ammunition in the aft of the Merkava Mk4 tank significantly increased the internal reserved volume, which is very difficult to protect from internal anti-tank weapons even with a weight of almost 70 tons. For a vehicle with an internal volume, such as on the Merkava Mk4, it is impossible to provide all-round protection against modern anti-tank ammunition using passive means alone. This was confirmed by the experience of combat use. As a result, an active defense system was installed on the tank. Strengthening the protection against defeat from above led to an increase in the size of the Merkava Mk4. As a result, the tank became much higher, which significantly reduced its camouflage properties, increased the area of ​​frontal and lateral projections. The protection of the Merkava Mk4 tank is primarily aimed at reducing the damaging effect of cumulative ammunition. The dimensions and heavy weight of the Merkava Mk4 significantly limit both operational-tactical and strategic mobility. Not everyone knows that the Merkava Mk4 is equipped with a spring suspension. When driving over rough terrain, it limits the speed of the machine and the accuracy of firing on the go, as body vibrations seriously affect the stabilization error when aiming a weapon. On armored vehicles of the main armies of the world, this type of suspension is practically not used.
  41. Professor
    Professor 30 October 2017 14: 37
    +3
    Quote: PogrOm
    I'm not wrong. Unlike you, when I write something, I know what I'm talking about. So, pathos less respected. The fact that you are not a "professor" but an amateur like me, I already understood.

    Start your comment with rudeness? What makes you think that I will read it further? Rude yourself like.
    1. Pogrom
      Pogrom 30 October 2017 15: 31
      +5
      Dear, rudeness is when a Persian writes “you are mistaken” and then instead of arguments he leads nonsense about torn towers and bad T-72s (the most common tank of his generation). Do you recognize yourself? There is something to say in fact, answer. I put your comments on the shelves. Spread mine if you can. Only without "you are mistaken" and "this is nothing more than your fantasies." Although I doubt it. Judging by your knowledge of the AZ, monoblock, torn towers and other things, you have mincemeat from tales in your head and you are technically illiterate. Let me guess, you are not a techie by profession and have nothing to do with military equipment. I'm right?
  42. looker-on
    looker-on 30 October 2017 18: 24
    +2
    I have questions:

    1- Why are they constantly writing about "potential buyers"? Merkava is an internal product. Not for sale.

    2-Why is the comparison with T-72 and so on? Merkava is an internal product. For guard. It is created under one TBD. Israel since 47 years is protected. Successfully. Even more.

    3- Why doesn't everyone spit on the tank? Crew - The most important thing in the war (after communication)

    4- Why does my nation (Russian) never (never!) Tend to agree that someone is doing something better than them? (And this is often obvious)

    The article has the right to life. An alternative view is the main value today.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. looker-on
        looker-on 30 October 2017 18: 56
        +1
        According to you, Israel created the perfect tank for its conditions of war. What else is needed? Let it be the worst in the world of MBT, but if it is the best for the Israeli wars, the goal is achieved.
        1. Pogrom
          Pogrom 30 October 2017 19: 04
          +5
          Jews think that he is also the best in the world, I don’t think so. He’s not even in 10-ke. That's all. Well, if a likely opponent has hundreds of T-90s tomorrow, the result is a little predictable.
  43. looker-on
    looker-on 30 October 2017 19: 08
    0
    Quote: PogrOm
    Jews think that he is also the best in the world, I don’t think so. He’s not even in 10-ke. That's all. Well, if a likely opponent has hundreds of T-90s tomorrow, the result is a little predictable.

    I agree with you here. All that remains is the question of the crews. Hundreds of tanks need hundreds of crews multiplied by at least 2
    1. Pogrom
      Pogrom 30 October 2017 19: 11
      +1
      Yes, it’s clear that this will not happen. Therefore, they are satisfied with these sheds. As long as there is such a “parity” (essentially superiority) no one thinks about the shortcomings.
  44. viktorch
    viktorch 31 October 2017 11: 44
    +2
    the tank is good, a trophy with fire is generally fire, but it’s incorrect to compare with the t72, as if the price tag of the cars is different both in production and in operation, you still compare the leklers with the t55.
    + plus cars good crew survival, with a single shootout, a thick forehead + engine, well shields the fighting compartment, shells in capsules, a hefty fighting compartment, the door to the rear for fast evacuation without having to crawl out onto the tank under fire
    + a definite plus is TROPHY - the only serial mass KAZ,
    + - the protection in the forehead is powerful, the sides for such a mass are not very protected, the abrams in this sense looks more sane.
    - Suspension, why it was not clear on the M4, springs do not give any distinct advantages in the current use.
    - the engine in front, as far as it is beneficial for the crew, is just as darn for the tank as a whole, the center of mass is shifted forward + the very first hit by any rubbish like 7ki in the NLD guarantees a quick and complete loss of travel at the chariot, the heat transfer curve prevents normal shooting at safe corners maneuvering in the heat after the march, all aiming has to be done through the soaring engine - the ass is full, or the muzzle is pulled out and the sides set up.
    + - the fluff on one side is cool - the lightweight reinmetal and even the birds, everything is ok, on the other hand it was quite possible to make 155mm for such a massive carcass.
    + - engine, problems with mythical 200 hours have long been resolved, the power is normal on the tank, taking into account the pressure on the ground, everything is ok with the cross-country, the myths about merkavas drowning in the swamps are myths, but the engine’s maintenance is just a song, without a tap Bram don't do anything.

    in general, the tank is good, although in some ways it loses to the same abrashka - but the abrash costs a trite more.

    in the same price category as merkava4 is - t14 armata, I suggest everyone to frostbitten compare them.

    Abrams and leopards of the last modifications remain the most dangerous in the combined arms battle, but not merkavas, 72s and not even sacred cranberry cows like the T90, now of course there are the T14 but the car is still frankly raw, and there’s no big talk about it yet.
  45. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 31 October 2017 15: 28
    +1
    During the fighting in Lebanon in 1982, several Merkavs were shot down, but the crews were not injured.

    1. The tank was created to save the life of the crew - then it’s better not to start a war.
    2. The tank was created for a duel from other tanks - then it would be better to organize a world championship for a duel of tanks.
    For these two tasks, Merkava can beat a very good tank. But as a weapon for a real war, it is very ineffective (Lebanon, Gaza).
  46. Clone
    Clone 1 November 2017 00: 34
    0
    Quote: ksp
    Lada 10 times better Porsche
    Following your logic.

    Invalid comparison. The fact that Elephant and Moska eat and poop does not at all make them comparable subjects of research.
  47. philosopher
    philosopher 2 November 2017 19: 45
    0
    Old RPG-7 penetrates 750 mm of armor? The author did not confuse anything?
  48. Loki_2
    Loki_2 7 November 2017 20: 08
    0
    Extremely one-sided article
  49. -Ac-
    -Ac- 18 January 2019 14: 32
    0
    Quote: Professor
    Combat General Tal was not Russian and preferred the "2" option.

    There are better options ...