Military Review

Aviation against tanks (part of 5)

52



Back in the years of World War II, attack aircraft pilots were faced with the fact that it was very difficult to achieve hits from cannons in a single tank. But at the same time, the speed of the IL-2 was about two times lower than that of the Su-25, which is considered to be a not-too-fast airplane with good conditions for attacking point ground targets. It is very difficult for an attack aircraft, and even more so for a supersonic fighter-bomber to get into the armored vehicles with unmanaged means of destruction, moving on the battlefield at a speed of 10-20 km / h. At the same time, the combat aircraft itself is exposed to a serious threat from the ZSU, short-range mobile air defense systems and MANPADS. The ideal option would be a variant of an armored low-speed attack aircraft capable of delivering pinpoint strikes. weaponsbut it was never implemented.

In 60-s in different countries, including the USSR, the development of guided anti-tank missiles. At first, very imperfect anti-tank guided missiles were guided in manual mode by wire or radio channel. The task of the operator was to combine the rocket tracer with a moving target, which seemed a daunting task, required considerable training, and the percentage of misses was very large. Nevertheless, even in this case, the probability of hitting the target was significantly higher than when using unguided aircraft armaments — guns, NAR and free-fall bombs.

At the end of the 50 in the USSR, they began experimenting with the installation of weapons on the Mi-1 helicopter. Originally it was NAR TRS-132. Six tubular rails for ORO-132 missiles were mounted onboard. Then came the options, armed with machine gun rifle caliber and holders for bombs weighing up to 100 kg.

Aviation against tanks (part of 5)

Mi-1MU with NAR TRS-132


It is clear that a helicopter with such armament could not represent a serious threat to enemy armored vehicles, and even with the maximum flight speed of 160 km / h and the absence of a reservation, it was a very easy target. In this regard, the designers decided to equip the helicopter anti-tank missile system. At that moment, the Phalanga and 2K8 “Baby” ATGMs 9K11 “Phalanx” were considered the most promising models.

Anti-tank complex "Phalanx" provided defeat targets at a distance of 2,5 km, with a minimum range of 500 meters. The flight speed of a rocket with a launch weight of about 28 kg was 150 m / s. Guidance missiles carried by radio. In the tail of the rocket two tracer were mounted. When meeting at an angle of 90 °, the seven-kilogram cumulative warhead pierced 500 mm in homogeneous armor.

ATTM 9K11 “Baby” had lighter 10,9 kg missiles with a launch range of up to 3000 m. The combat part of the ATGM weighing 2,6 kg penetrated the normal 400 mm armor. Guidance "Baby" was carried out by wire. Rocket speed - 120 m / s. In general, compared to the Phalanga, it was a much simpler and cheaper complex, but its data were too low for use from a helicopter. However, the Mi-1, equipped with the six “Baby” ATGM, was presented for testing.


Mi-1MU with the Phalanga ATGM


Shortly after the adoption of the "Phalanx" in service, a modernized Phalanga-M ATGM with semi-automatic targeting appeared. After the launch, the operator was enough to hold the target in the crosshair of the reticle, and the guidance commands were automatically developed and issued by the control equipment. In the modernized complex, the preparation time for launch was reduced, thanks to the use of more powerful engines in the ATGM, the launch range increased to 4000 m and the rocket speed to 230 m / s. At the same time, the probability of damage in good visibility conditions was 0,7-0,8.

In 1962, the Mi-1МU as a whole was successfully tested, but by the time they were completed, the serial production of the helicopter had already been turned off. In addition, the generals, who did not understand the advantages of a helicopter with guided anti-tank missiles, were skeptical about the combat capabilities of light dragonfly-like machines. In this regard, Mi-1U remained experienced.

Almost simultaneously with the Mi-1 armament, the development of the Mi-4 helicopter was launched. Initially, the Mi-4AB armament consisted of holders for NAR UB-16 blocks or bombs. Later on the "four" tested ATGM "phalanx".


Mi-4 with NAR blocks


However, as in the case of the Mi-1, the military was not in a hurry to adopt attack helicopters. Only in 1966, after the decision to develop the transport-impact Mi-24A was made, an order was issued for the Mi-4AB helicopter gunships.


ATGM 9M17M "Phalanx-M"


The helicopter’s armament includes four 9М17М Phalang-M ATGMs and three girder holders for six UB-16 units with sixteen NAR C-5 in each or six 100 kg of bombs. Also four 250 kg bombs or two incendiary tanks of BZ-500 could be suspended. A large-caliber 12,7-mm machine gun A-12,7 was mounted in the ventral gondola.


Mi-XNUMHAV


ATGM was at the disposal of the navigator, who carried out the launch and guidance of guided anti-tank missiles. The dropping of bombs and the use of NAR was made by the crew commander who was in control of the helicopter, and the fire was conducted by a flight engineer.

Although the Mi-4AB with a piston engine ASH-82B power 1250 hp did not have armor and could develop the entire 170 km / h, it was quite combat-ready machine. In addition to armament, the helicopter could take on board the 8 paratroopers with personal weapons. In total, about two hundred "fours" were converted to the Mi-4AB version.

For the first time, anti-tank Mi-4AVs were used in battle in the Doomsday War. Despite the modest flight performance and high vulnerability of the Quartet, the armed ATGMs during the battles on the Sinai Peninsula on October 8 and 9, 1973, made more than 30 sorties. It is believed that on their account there are destroyed Tanks from the Israeli 162nd Armored Division.

In general, the first experience of equipping Mi-4 helicopters with anti-tank weapons was positive. At the same time, it became absolutely clear that in order to increase combat effectiveness in modern conditions, a special development machine is needed, having a reservation for the cockpit and the most vulnerable components and assemblies, as well as special aiming and navigation equipment associated with the weapon system.

At the end of 50-x, it became clear that the Mi-1 helicopter is rapidly becoming obsolete and needs replacing. The main problem that arose during the creation of the new helicopter was the lack of a relatively lightweight and economical gas turbine engine in the USSR. Especially for the Mi-2 helicopter in the OKB-117 under the guidance of S.P. Izotov was created engine GTD-350 with power 400 hp When designing the Mi-2, a number of piston Mi-1 units were used. Such an approach significantly accelerated the introduction into mass production of a new light helicopter. The first flight of the prototype took place in September 1961. But the fine-tuning and testing of the helicopter with still raw engines was delayed until the 1967 year.

The helicopter, equipped with a pair of GTD-350 engines, had a maximum take-off weight of 3660 kg and a passenger capacity of 10 people. Maximum speed 210 km / h. Practical range without additional fuel tanks 580 km. In general, the machine in its characteristics corresponded to foreign classmates. The complaints only caused a relatively high fuel consumption of engines GTD-350.

From the very beginning, the military showed great interest in the Mi-2. In the future, in addition to reconnaissance, coherent and sanitary options, it was planned to create a light anti-tank helicopter. But by the time the helicopter was ready for serial production, it turned out that its concept did not fully meet modern requirements. The ideas about the role and place of the light helicopter, formulated by 50-s and designed in the form of a technical task, were outdated by the time Mi-2 appeared. The desire to preserve the dimensions of the piston Mi-1 imposed serious constraints at the design stage. From the Mi-2 it was not possible to create the Soviet Iroquois - it was not able to take on board a detachment of soldiers or the corresponding cargo. The efficiency, payload and maneuverability of the Mi-2 for a helicopter of this class left much to be desired. Experts in the end of 60-x said that different light helicopters of the new generation are needed - one should be the Mi-4 class, the second was seen as quite small, with a passenger capacity of 2-3. However, the drawbacks of the Mi-2 are not so much the fault of the designers who did everything to improve the car, as errors at the level of formulating the very concept of the helicopter and the lack of a lightweight gas turbine engine with high technical characteristics in the USSR.

In 1966, the combat Mi-2В was developed with 4 UB-16 units or with the same number of Phalang-M ATGM. However, delaying the tests of the base helicopter led to the fact that the strike version was able to bring to an acceptable level only at the beginning of the 70-x. By that time, the serial construction of the transport and combat Mi-8TV was under way and the Mi-24А was on its way.

The loss of military interest was also due to the fact that the construction of the Mi-2 was transferred to Poland. Its production was established at the helicopter plant in the town of Svidnik. The production of GTD-350 engines was entrusted to an enterprise in Rzeszow. The Poles got the right through 10 years after the start of serial construction of the Mi-2 to make independent changes to the basic design and create their own versions of the helicopter.

The Vietnam War fueled interest in light helicopters equipped with gun-gun and missile weapons. In June, the 1970 of the year in Poland began testing the Mi-2 with the 23-mm NS-23 cannon mounted on the port side and two 7,62-mm PKT machine guns on the starboard. In addition, on the pivot installations in the windows of the cargo compartment were mounted PKK light machine guns, the fire from which was led by a flight engineer. This variant, designated Mi-XNUMHUS, was built in a small series. Following the Mi-XNUMHUS, the Mi-2URN appeared. The helicopter's armament was reinforced with 2-mm NAR units.


Mi-2URN


In 1972, the Mi-2URP was passed to the tests with attachment points for four “Malyutka” ATGMs. The operator’s workplace with a telescopic sight and pointing console was located next to the pilot. Although the stated range of the launch of the “Malyutka” ATGM was 3000 m, with the launches at the range 2000 m, it was possible to achieve hits in a shield target imitating a tank, a little more than half the time. The reason for the low accuracy of firing of wire-guided missiles was the vibration of the helicopter, as well as the imperfection of the guidance system, designed to launch missiles from a fixed platform. Nevertheless, the helicopter was put into service, and it was built in series.


Mi-2URP


Due to the low combat performance and low security, the armed versions of the Mi-2 did not interest the Soviet commanders. But this did not prevent deliveries to other Warsaw Pact countries. Thus, Polish experts were able to realize what was abandoned in the USSR. The Mil Design Bureau at the beginning of the 70-x was overloaded with orders, and the military light anti-tank helicopter was not interesting. Mi-2, be it equipped with more powerful engines and long-range ATGM with a semi-automatic guidance system, could be quite good in the role of a light inexpensive combat helicopter.

In 1960, the development of a medium transport helicopter with gas turbine engines began; in the future, this machine was to replace the Mi-4 piston. The serial construction of the helicopter, designated Mi-8, began in the first half of 1965 at the aircraft factory in Kazan. In 1969, the Mi-8 was completely replaced in the production of the Mi-4. For its time, the Mi-8 was an outstanding machine, with very good flight performance, advanced equipment and high modernization potential. This predetermined the long life of the helicopter, built in large batches and the creation of numerous modifications.

Mi-8T helicopter, equipped with two TV2-117 engines, power 1500 hp each developed a maximum speed of 250 km / h. With a maximum take-off mass of 12 000 kg, the helicopter could transport cargo weighing 4000 kg and had a practical flight range of 450 km.

On the basis of the transport amphibious Mi-8T in 1968, an armed modification of the Mi-8TV was created. The G8 armament set was previously tested on the Mi-4AB. Transport and combat Mi-8TV, presented to the test, received a lighter and cheaper anti-tank "Malyutka" with a smaller launch range. Also provided for the suspension of blocks of NAR and bombs weighing up to 1500 kg.


Mi-8TV


Compared to the Mi-4AV, the caliber of the bombs used has increased significantly. These could be bombs weighing 100, 250 and 500 kg, including one-time bomb cassettes equipped with PTAB. Thus, the helicopter’s shock potential was not inferior to the MiG-21 fighter and against tanks, in addition to the ATGM, the NAR C-5K / KO with a cumulative warhead and PTB in RBC-250 and RBC-500 could be used.

The conditions for searching for targets and targeting weapons on a helicopter were generally better than on a fighter-bomber. But at the same time, the pilot who launched the NAR, and the navigator who directed anti-tank guided missiles, had to rely only on his own vision when searching for targets. The combat value of a fairly large helicopter was reduced by the fact that the "eight" with an anti-tank missile system was very vulnerable to anti-aircraft systems and fighter jets. Due to the significant weight of such a method of using an anti-tank guided missile system, such as the hanging of a helicopter and shooting with the use of terrain folds, it proved difficult to implement.

The first anti-tank modification of the G8 had solid armor protection. The cockpit from bullets and fragments covered removable armor plates with a thickness of 8 mm. Armor was also mounted in the bulkhead from the cargo compartment. The pilot and navigator seats were armored and armored. A part of the cabin glazing was made of transparent armor 50 mm thick. The fuel pumps and hydraulic units of the control system were partially booked. The fuel tanks were designed.

Initially, the A-8 machine gun with 12,7 ammunition ammunition was introduced into the Mi-700TV armament. The installation of a large-caliber machine gun cluttered the cockpit heavily. Due to the lack of space, the ammunition unit had to be placed in the cartridge case on the front wall of the cargo hold, and the tape was pulled along the outer sleeve. However, this was subsequently abandoned, replacing the A-12,7 with a PC rifle-caliber machine gun. For firing at armored vehicles, the 12,7-mm machine gun was weak, and when used in manpower it had no advantages over the 7,62-mm machine gun. In addition, the use of machine-gun weapons in the fighting was episodic in nature, and it was considered rational to carry dead cargo in the form of a machine-gun unit with an ammunition weight of about 130 kg. When firing from the A-12,7, approximately after the 100 shots, due to the high gas content in the cockpit, there was nothing to breathe. In general, the large-caliber machine gun was not popular with helicopter crews, and flew, as a rule, without it.


Mi-8TV with ATGM "Phalanx" and blocks NAR UB-32


In 1974, the Mi-8TV equipped the Phalanga-M ATGM with the Rainbow-F guidance system, which was more suitable for use from a combat helicopter. As a result, the transport and shock Mi-8TV, intended for its own army aviation, Mi-8TB with ATGM "Baby" was delivered to the allies.


ATGM installation "Baby" on the Mi-8TB army of the GDR


Mi-8TV helicopters were built relatively little, because of similar weapons, they were most often used in the regiments where there were Mi-24. The reason for the limited edition of the Mi-8TV was the fact that, due to the large mass of weapons and armor, the flight data deteriorated significantly, and the payload and flight range decreased. The cockpit was overly cluttered with weapons, an ATGM guidance system and other sighting equipment. So, for the use of various weapons in the cockpit there were four sights. As a result, starting from the end of the 70-x, units with large-caliber machine guns and bulky ATGM guidance equipment were gradually dismantled in the front-line shelves. This made it possible to reduce the flight weight of helicopters, which had a positive effect on flight data, improve the working conditions of the crew and concentrate on the direct functions of delivering cargo and paratroopers, and, if necessary, provide fire support to ground units.


Preparing for departure Mi-8TV


In the future, the use of guided weapons on the Mi-8MT / MTV versions with more powerful TV3-117MT and TV3-117ВМ engines was abandoned for some time, concentrating on increasing the load capacity, reliability, range and dynamic ceiling. However, small arms, external nodes of the NAR and bombs on the "eight" are preserved.

In 2009, in Russia, the transport and impact Mi-8AMTSH (export designation Mi-171Ш) was adopted. The helicopter uses two turboshaft engines TV3-117ВМ with take-off power 2100 hp, on upgraded Mi-8АМТШ-В, which went to the troops since summer 2014 of the year, two VK-2500-03 with improved transmission.

The armor protection of the helicopter is enhanced by lightweight ceramic-metal armor. The helicopter received a new avionics complex, which, among other things, includes meteorological equipment, pilot night vision goggles, a thermal imager and satellite navigation equipment. Due to this Mi-8AMTSH has the ability to act at night.


Mi-8AMTSH


Basic variant arms Ni-8AMTSH includes 20-minute charging units 80-mm NAR C-8 and suspended containers 23-mm cannon GSH-23L on 4-6 beam holders and two 7,62-mm machine gun PKT in the bow and stern units . If necessary, the helicopter can be armed with the Sturm-V complex with 9М114 or 9М120 guided missiles. This allows relatively inexpensive to turn a transport-combat helicopter into an anti-tank. What can be interesting to countries where there are Mi-8 / 17, but there are no specialized combat helicopters.

To be continued ...

Based on:
http://www.razlib.ru/transport_i_aviacija/aviacija_i_vremja_1995_03/p3.php
http://авиару.рф/aviamuseum/aviatsiya/sssr/vertolety/vertolety-kb-milya/mnogotselevoj-vertolet-mi-1/legkij-udarnyj-vertolet-mi-1mu/
http://www.arms-expo.ru/armament/samples/1001/65179/
Author:
Articles from this series:
Aviation against tanks (part of 1)
Aviation against tanks (part of 2)
Aviation against tanks (part of 3)
Aviation against tanks (part of 4)
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  1. andrewkor
    andrewkor 17 October 2017 07: 33 New
    +2
    I want to pay tribute to the “gloomy Teutonic genius” of WWII, guided missile weapons are the priority of German designers! Wasserfall, Schmetterling, Reintochter, and E anti-aircraft missiles
    ncian "; Air-to-Air missiles: X-4, HS-298; glider missile-bombing planes: X-1, HS-293; PTR X-7" Rotkaphen "!
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 17 October 2017 08: 32 New
      +4
      And how, did it help them?
      1. andrewkor
        andrewkor 17 October 2017 08: 38 New
        +9
        Of course, this Wundeowaffen ultimately did not help the Germans, but it helped the development of high-precision weapons all over the world, and it’s simply impossible not to notice.
        1. Amurets
          Amurets 17 October 2017 09: 26 New
          +9
          Quote: andrewkor
          Of course, this Wundeowaffen ultimately did not help the Germans, but it helped the development of high-precision weapons all over the world, and it’s simply impossible not to notice.

          What can you say about the works of Bekauri and other works of the Ostekhbyuro. About the fact that in the late 30s I.I. Rustle tested samples of homing weapons. The whole problem of that time was that there was no microminiature, solid-state elemental base. There was no digital technology.
          Sergei! Thank. Thank you for recalling which path systems and guidance methods have traveled. As I recall, for control on one of the types of cruise missiles and the carrier of these missiles there were coils with 40 km of wire, it takes horror. Well, the three-point guidance, you already noted, was not accurate.
          1. andrewkor
            andrewkor 17 October 2017 10: 29 New
            +3
            Dear Amurets, the lack of the technologies you mentioned did not prevent the German designers from creating, and the military successfully using unique high-precision weapons. After the WWII, the victors used the experience of thousands of German scientists and engineers.
            1. faiver
              faiver 17 October 2017 15: 46 New
              +2
              But about the successful application, please for more details? hi
              1. NIKNN
                NIKNN 17 October 2017 18: 38 New
                +5
                Quote: faiver
                But about the successful application, please for more details? hi

                Look here ...
                http://otvaga2004.ru/boyevoe-primenenie/boyevoye-
                primeneniye09 / fritz-x-na-more /
              2. andrewkor
                andrewkor 17 October 2017 19: 10 New
                +4
                The sinking of two Italian battleships with guided planning bombs!
                1. Mikhail Zhukov
                  Mikhail Zhukov 25 August 2019 04: 38 New
                  0
                  Two? And not one?
          2. snc
            snc 17 October 2017 11: 51 New
            0
            And what kind of rocket is this with 40k wires? Reveal the secret, all the same, it’s probably out of date, so don’t break anything.
            1. Amurets
              Amurets 17 October 2017 12: 29 New
              +3
              Quote: snc
              And what kind of rocket is this with 40k wires? Reveal the secret, all the same, it’s probably out of date, so don’t break anything.

              View of a wireline after dropping a planning torpedo Hs 293B

              "On the Hs 293B, control was carried out by wire. Coils with wires were installed on the wing consoles, in the coil on a carrier aircraft 12 km of cable, on a rocket - 18 km, that is, a total length of 30 km. Hs 293 had aerodynamic rudders as control bodies "namely, two ailerons at the trailing edges of the wings and a elevator."
              According to Shirokorad, in the USSR a variant of this torpedo with a jet engine was developed, with an even greater range. http://fanread.ru/book/11807370/?page=53
              1. Monarchist
                Monarchist 17 October 2017 13: 12 New
                +1
                Dear Nikolai "Amurovich", I'm sorry for approving liberties, but from the point of view of a layman, a jet torpedo on a leash is something a little real.
                On NTV Zvezda, I like the channels: Zvezda and TVC, they said that the first ATGMs had a flaw: the optical cable was on a Chinese basis.
                1. Nikolaevich I
                  Nikolaevich I 17 October 2017 14: 23 New
                  13
                  Quote: Monarchist
                  The first ATGMs had a flaw: the optical cable was on a Chinese basis.

                  "First ATGMs" .... and an optical cable? belay what The most illustrative illustration to the proverb: "I heard a ringing, but does not know where he is!" The first serial Soviet "conductive" ATGM (ATGM) is the "Bumblebee" ... and the "Chinese basis" is related to the second Soviet "wire" ATGM "Baby". And the cable was "lectric" (!) Three-wire in isolation from Chinese silk ... and since the quarrels started with the Chinese, it needed "import substitution". There was an idea to replace silk with nylon, and the idea was “prompted” by an imported nylon shirt of a ministerial official ... this is how the factory for the production of nylon fabric appeared in the USSR (and the history of nylon shirts and other products in the USSR began)
                2. Amurets
                  Amurets 17 October 2017 15: 52 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Monarchist
                  On NTV Zvezda, I like the channels: Zvezda and TVC, they said that the first ATGMs had a flaw: the optical cable was on a Chinese basis.

                  These channels can tell a lot. The fact is that even before WWII, the Germans in Germany and the OSTEKhBuro developed both radio-controlled so-called “Wave control boats” and boats with wire control, and in both cases the kamikaze boat was controlled from an airplane. Jet torpedo on a leash: see Shirokorad. "The fiery sword of the Russian fleet." In the USSR, specifically in the interests of the Navy, they were carried out at the Dry Beam training ground near Feodosia. It is not necessary only to think that such work was carried out only in the USSR, the US Navy also had such anti-submarine weapons controlled by wire. All these works were carried out in the 30-50s of the twentieth century.
      2. WUA 518
        WUA 518 17 October 2017 08: 56 New
        +5
        Seryozha welcome! As always on 5 points!
        A small clarification about the small arms of the Mi-8 AMTS.
        A total of 6 pivot mounts, 3 on each side. In the doorway, 2 porthole, and behind the 4 porthole.
        1. your1970
          your1970 17 October 2017 12: 36 New
          +3
          when our training floor flew MI-2 (I didn’t find it, but I talked a lot) - so in the summer at +40 when delivering food l / s we chose skinny the waitress love - otherwise he could not overpower to fly with thermoses ...
          So the military did not just have an interest in the military, just like that ..
        2. Bongo
          18 October 2017 05: 39 New
          +3
          Quote: WUA 518
          Seryozha welcome! As always on 5 points!

          Hi thanks drinks
          Quote: WUA 518
          A total of 6 pivot mounts, 3 on each side. In the doorway, 2 porthole, and behind the 4 porthole.

          Thank you for clarification!
      3. iouris
        iouris 17 October 2017 10: 57 New
        +2
        The question is posed incorrectly. It helped us. Probably. Although not very. And only until 1991.
        1. Amurets
          Amurets 17 October 2017 11: 13 New
          0
          Quote: iouris
          The question is posed incorrectly. It helped us. Probably. Although not very. And only until 1991.

          Still, most of the development came to the United States. The Soviet intelligence, defeated by repressions of 37 years, can forgive its ignorance of the scope of Nazi work. But Western intelligence agencies also missed a secret that tens of thousands of Germans knew about. Orders were carried out by dozens of firms. Rockets have been flying since 1940. Only in the 43rd the French created the special service "Marco Polo" for the intelligence of high technology of the Third Reich. Information was transmitted by the USA and Great Britain. And they soon themselves began to hunt for the secrets of the Reich, having launched special groups in the vanguard of their troops to capture the “iron” and specialists in missiles and aircraft. http://www.yaplakal.com/forum3/st/0/topic1676158.
          html
          1. iouris
            iouris 17 October 2017 13: 27 New
            +4
            Quote: Amurets
            Still, most of the development came to the United States.

            Not everyone in the USSR was able to "digest". As for the United States, this country did not bear the costs, because did not participate in scientific research and the creation of an education system, but was created to capitalize the scientific achievements of mankind, turning them into goods and into patented technologies and other "intellectual property". No country will rise from its knees until the export of brains to the United States ceases.
            1. Amurets
              Amurets 18 October 2017 00: 37 New
              0
              Quote: iouris
              Not everyone in the USSR was able to "digest".

              Well, this applies not only to the USSR, but also to the USA, though they got documentation many times more.
              Quote: iouris
              Quote: Amurets
              Still, most of the development came to the United States.

              Not everyone in the USSR was able to "digest". As for the United States, this country did not bear the costs, because She did not participate in scientific research and the creation of an education system, but was created to capitalize the scientific achievements of mankind, turning them into goods and into patented technologies and other “intellectual property”.

              After WWII, Japan surpassed everyone in this respect, not in the sense of developing new ones, but in that it bought patents and licenses all over the world.
        2. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 17 October 2017 15: 06 New
          +4
          Quote: iouris
          It helped us. Probably

          It helped .... didn’t help ... The first ATGMs in the USSR were created in the 50 of the last century by the designer Nadiradze (UPS 1-7) These were devices with a "caliber" from 90-mm to 200-mm with both wired and and radio control (even with television ...) with a range of up to 7-km. You can try to imagine how such a weapon could change the face of the Soviet armed forces, the nature of hostilities, the ratio of combat losses in the 50's ... But development was stopped ... and serial ATGMs (ATGMs) in the SA appeared in 1960 year. In 1945 year German designers created Experimental examples of a hand-held anti-tank grenade launcher with an active-reactive shot. But the RP-2, a more modern "analogue of the" first "panzerfausts" with an "active" shot, was adopted by the SA, ... even a similar RPG-2 was later prepared to replace the RPG-4 .... Byad, when conservatism prevails among the military.
          1. iouris
            iouris 17 October 2017 19: 33 New
            +2
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            Byad, when conservatism prevails among the military.

            That is the reality. Therefore, the military is not trusted in such a serious matter as war, and formally civilian scientists and designers are moving forward military technology and tactics.
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 18 October 2017 01: 07 New
              +1
              Quote: iouris
              military technology and tactics formally move civilian scientists and designers forward.

              Controversial statement! Often, developers begin to "move the horn" when
              the military give them tasks with certain requirements ... Of course, developers can show fantasies when they are bored; but often creations of very skilled hands are not in demand by the army (Baryshev’s weapons, Taunberg’s grenade launcher, Kozlik, Crossbow grenade launchers, etc. .d ....)
          2. iouris
            iouris 17 October 2017 19: 37 New
            +2
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            such weapons could change the face of the Soviet armed forces

            I doubt that at that level of technology a truly effective anti-tank weapon could have been obtained for aviation. Even now he is gone. So Khrushchev thought that guided missiles could solve all issues.
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 18 October 2017 00: 40 New
              +1
              Quote: iouris
              I doubt that at that level of technology a truly effective anti-tank weapon could have been obtained for aviation.

              Controversial statement .... No.2. UPS-7 had a television guidance system and a range of up to 7 km! ... The phalanx, noted in known armed conflicts, reached, depending on the modification, from 2,5km to 4km and was equipped with a manual guidance system at the beginning. A "Baby" (3 km; manual guidance system), what made a splash during the Yom Kippur War? After all, the military, "near war" (analysts and other "similar" ...) then even began to get hysterical about the fate and role of tanks and armored forces! And how did the nature of the Viet Cong (for example, its tank units) change the use by Americans of helicopters equipped with "TOW" (3 km)!? Have the "appearance and nature of the military operations (especially ...) of the troops" not changed (to a certain extent) as a result of these facts? But from a modern standpoint, TOW and Baby are all imperfect weapons!
              1. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 18 October 2017 01: 10 New
                +1
                PS By the way, my opinion can also be controversial ....
      4. Tochilka
        Tochilka 17 October 2017 21: 41 New
        +2
        it would help, but in the 44th Germany experienced an acute shortage of materials and time. We did not have time to complete the development. Winners skimmed the cream.
  2. Dooplet11
    Dooplet11 17 October 2017 09: 40 New
    0
    Thank you for the article. I hope information will be added on the practical use of helicopters on the battlefield, with data on efficiency and losses.
    1. Bongo
      18 October 2017 05: 41 New
      +4
      Quote: Dooplet11
      Thank you for the article. I hope information will be added on the practical use of helicopters on the battlefield, with data on efficiency and losses.

      But with this it is very difficult, since reliable data on the use of helicopters against armored vehicles is very small. request
  3. igordok
    igordok 17 October 2017 10: 10 New
    +1
    Tell me. It seems that the following indexation has been adopted in aircraft names; the odd ones are for fighters (Yak-3, La-5), the even ones are for strike, transport, etc. (Il-2, Li-2). Does this rule apply to helicopters? I noticed that basically, the indices in the names of helicopters are even.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 17 October 2017 10: 31 New
      +4
      As they want, they call it that. Mi-8 and Mi-17 are generally the same.
      1. Dooplet11
        Dooplet11 17 October 2017 10: 53 New
        +1
        in the 40's, USSR aircraft had an even coding for destination codes.
    2. iouris
      iouris 17 October 2017 11: 01 New
      +3
      There is no standard for indexes yet. In my opinion, it is high time to develop a system. By the way, such a system existed in the 1930s (I-5, I-15, I-16, TB-1, TB-3, DB-3).
    3. WUA 518
      WUA 518 17 October 2017 11: 02 New
      +3
      Quote: igordok
      I noticed that basically, the indices in the names of helicopters are even.

      1. IL-18
        IL-18 17 October 2017 22: 48 New
        +4
        Ka-15, Ka-25, Ka-27 ... Mi-35. And the most famous MiG-28 fighter, Tom Cruise shot it down. In fact, after the death of Stalin, order became less in everything, incl. and in observance of rituals. Under Stalin, IL-2, Su-6. And when Brezhnev Su-25.
        1. maximghost
          maximghost 17 October 2017 23: 32 New
          +1
          Under Stalin, IL-2, Su-6. And when Brezhnev Su-25.

          It happened because the first attack aircraft, either from bombers and reconnaissance aircraft, or were built like new cars. The Su-25, on the other hand, grew out of fighter bombers. Before him were the MiG-27 and Su-17.
          1. IL-18
            IL-18 18 October 2017 19: 13 New
            +2
            What information security device did the T-8 prototype come from? Or TsKB-55?
    4. Alf
      Alf 17 October 2017 23: 09 New
      +4
      Quote: igordok
      I noticed that basically, the indices in the names of helicopters are even.

      Yes, indexes for turntables are even. For our air force. Odd indices give export versions of MI-17, MI-35 helicopters.
      1. igordok
        igordok 18 October 2017 12: 33 New
        +2
        Quote: Alf
        Yes, indexes for turntables are even. For our air force. Odd indices give export versions of MI-17, MI-35 helicopters.

        Thank you for confirming my guesses.
        1. Alf
          Alf 18 October 2017 22: 45 New
          +2
          Quote: igordok
          Quote: Alf
          Yes, indexes for turntables are even. For our air force. Odd indices give export versions of MI-17, MI-35 helicopters.

          Thank you for confirming my guesses.

          Not at all, always happy to help. hi
  4. Monarchist
    Monarchist 17 October 2017 13: 20 New
    +4
    Quote: Amurets
    Quote: snc
    And what kind of rocket is this with 40k wires? Reveal the secret, all the same, it’s probably out of date, so don’t break anything.

    View of a wireline after dropping a planning torpedo Hs 293B

    "On the Hs 293B, control was carried out by wire. Coils with wires were installed on the wing consoles, in the coil on a carrier aircraft 12 km of cable, on a rocket - 18 km, that is, a total length of 30 km. Hs 293 had aerodynamic rudders as control bodies "namely, two ailerons at the trailing edges of the wings and a elevator."
    According to Shirokorad, in the USSR a variant of this torpedo with a jet engine was developed, with an even greater range. http://fanread.ru/book/11807370/?page=53

    I read “The last argument of the kings” at Shirokorad, and I liked it, and then I looked that it was a kind of “multi-station” story and now I am skeptical about his work. More precisely, I decided to read selectively and with great distrust.
    1. Curious
      Curious 17 October 2017 14: 38 New
      0
      Hs 293 was controlled by radio. After the Allies captured several samples and developed jamming stations, the Hs 293B version with wire control was developed, but it was never used.
      In 1944-1945, Japan, based on German experience, developed a similar Kawasaki Ki-147 I-Go radio-controlled missile.
      In the USSR, UB 2000 "The Seagull" was developed, but its prototype is the German FX-1400.
      1. iouris
        iouris 17 October 2017 19: 44 New
        +1
        It was controlled by a “human operator”, and this adversely affected combat effectiveness, because there were no simulators or they were primitive, and learning to use real ammunition was considered too expensive. As a result, not every pilot had practice, which means that the result could not be guaranteed, i.e. According to the criterion of "cost - beneficial effect", unguided munitions were preferable to controlled. By the way, the same control principle was used in manned space missions during the docking and the astronauts were trained, they studied the rate of loss of control skill.
    2. polpot
      polpot 17 October 2017 20: 44 New
      +1
      For contemporary authors, it happens that you read Pikul, the authors write for a living and are often repeated by Pushkin and Tolstoy in the past
  5. Pan_hrabio
    Pan_hrabio 17 October 2017 20: 33 New
    0
    Thank you for the article! True, a somewhat contradictory description of the Mi-2 caught my eye:

    In general, the machine in its characteristics corresponded to foreign classmates. Censures only caused a relatively high fuel consumption of engines GTD-350.


    And right there:
    From the Mi-2 failed to create the Soviet "Iroquois" - he was not able to take on board a compartment of soldiers or the corresponding cargo. Efficiency, carrying capacity and maneuverability of the Mi-2 for a helicopter of this class left much to be desired.
    1. Bongo
      18 October 2017 05: 44 New
      +4
      Quote: noviczok
      In general, the machine in its characteristics corresponded to foreign classmates. Censures only caused a relatively high fuel consumption of engines GTD-350.

      In terms of speed and flight range, the Mi-2 was quite at the level. The carrying capacity, of course, left much to be desired.
  6. Alf
    Alf 17 October 2017 23: 12 New
    +1
    12,7 mm machine gun, but when used in manpower it did not have advantages over a 7,62 mm machine gun.

    Yes ??? And does the range of effective fire and carcass at 12,7 not exceed those of 7,62?
    1. Bongo
      18 October 2017 05: 45 New
      +4
      Quote: Alf
      Yes ??? And does the range of effective fire and carcass at 12,7 not exceed those of 7,62?

      RџSЂRё sighting firing at manpower, the range of fire is the same. But the rifle caliber is easier and cheaper with much larger ammunition.
      1. Alf
        Alf 18 October 2017 22: 45 New
        0
        Quote: Bongo
        Quote: Alf
        Yes ??? And does the range of effective fire and carcass at 12,7 not exceed those of 7,62?

        RџSЂRё sighting firing at manpower, the range of fire is the same. But the rifle caliber is easier and cheaper with much larger ammunition.

        But only with a hit of 7,62 people can still crawl away, but after 12,7, you can only crawl to the Apostle Peter.
  7. shuravi
    shuravi 18 October 2017 21: 21 New
    0
    Quote: Bongo

    RџSЂRё sighting firing at manpower, the range of fire is the same. But the rifle caliber is easier and cheaper with much larger ammunition.


    The 12,7 machine gun is in every way better than the 7,62. But the fact is that the NUV-1 installation itself has significant weight, in addition, it alters the alignment, and the magnitude of the return negatively affects the strength of the cabin.
    Therefore, when creating the Mi-8MT, the installation of a machine gun was initially refused at all. Considering sufficient six suspension points. Installation of PCT in the glazing of a lantern, this is essentially an ersatz. A quick solution to the needs of Afghanistan.
  8. Dekabrev
    Dekabrev 23 October 2017 23: 47 New
    +2
    Bongo is absolutely right. When shooting at manpower, a good rifle-caliber machine gun is much better: it is lighter, more ammunition, more rate of fire, it’s more convenient to control (large-caliber without a turret with a hydraulic or electric drive can’t be deployed so sharply). For long distances from a shaking helicopter from a pin, it is hardly possible to conduct targeted fire from any caliber. And about creeping away or not creeping away ... The main task in the battle is to disable as many opponents as possible. Moreover, some cynical experts believe that it is better to have more injured than killed. Slain what? They buried everything, but you can not dig it. A wounded man needs to be evacuated from the battlefield, and this is an additional distraction of forces and means, and then treatment is a lot of money and human resources. Even after this, many survivors do not return to duty. The percentage of those who returned to service in different countries is different, and this depends not only on medicine, but also on the legal norms adopted in this country. In addition, the wounded and, especially, the disabled have a negative impact on the morale of soldiers and civilians. War, in general, is a dirty thing.