Weapon Miracles: Cold or Gunshot?

56
It would seem, how to improve the knife? Its very construction does not leave much choice: the blade, the handle and the guard. What is here to improve? But no, the gunsmith designers have been working on the shape of the blades, experimenting with various steel grades and sharpening methods, and so on. Moreover, no one will be surprised with a knife, in the handle of which a special container with a “survival kit” is placed. But in appearance such a knife is almost no different from others.

Weapon Miracles: Cold or Gunshot?


I must say, the handle was and remains a rather interesting part of the knife. For example, sometimes so-called is placed on its head. shock spike, and there are a lot of options for ergonomics. One of the directions of "interest" to the knife handle for a long time remained attempts to inscribe a shooting device in it. Various designs and even prototypes appeared. But, unfortunately, their authors, all these "hybrids" of firearms and cold weapons remained only experimental. Only Soviet gunsmiths managed to bring such weapons to a more or less large series.

In the late sixties, shortly after the appearance of silent cartridges with a cut-off of powder gases, the staff of the Central Research Institute Tochmash and the Tula Arms Plant began to "cross" cold steel and firearms. The shooting device for the knife was made under the silent cartridge SP-3. This ammunition was chosen for one simple reason: the shooting knife was made as a special tool for special forces soldiers, it had to help eliminate the enemy, which is called, without noise and dust. Interestingly, the entire line of Soviet cartridges with a cut-off of powder gases was created for similar reasons. The fact is that I.Ya. Stechkin, creating in the 50-x shooting cigarette case, and could not fit into the dimensions of the compact accessory at least some decent muffler. So I had to come back to the idea from the twenties. In the cartridge SP-1, which was made specifically for the cigarette case, as in several other munitions of the “SP” family, the powder gases push the bullet not independently, but through a special wad-piston. When fired, the piston knocks a bullet out of the neck of the liner, and he gets stuck in it. Gases remain inside the sleeve because of what they can not create a so-called. muzzle sound wave. The shot is almost completely silent - only the sound of moving parts of the weapon is heard.

The cartridge SP-3 (7,62x38 mm) is equipped with a standard “three-line” bullet from the intermediate cartridge 7,62x39 mm, which made it a bit cheaper. In addition, this cartridge was originally created for special SME and СHNUMXМ pistols, which were intended for the silent liquidation of "objects" outside combat conditions. The serial bullet should have confused the people who are investigating the murder. However, when creating a shooting device for a knife, the designers hardly proceeded from these same considerations. Just at the end of the 4-x cartridge SP-60 was the most perfect design of all Soviet ammunition with a cut-off of powder gases.



The basis for the knife with a shooting device was taken knife scout HP-43 "Cherry". This also affected the name of the project - the alphanumeric index "Cherry" removed the numbers and added the letter "C", behind which the word "shooting" was covered. As a result, the new knife was called LDC. It also required to change the shape of the blade, namely the part that is inside the handle and significantly modify the shape of the blade. A shooting device is placed in the cavity inside the handle. It consists of a base-shutter, trigger mechanism and the barrel with chamber. The barrel length of 60 mm is made removable and is the only removable part when working with a firing device. However, if necessary, the entire firing device can be removed from the handle, but this is not part of the preparation for the shot. In its muzzle of the barrel is connected with the lock washer, and the breech has a chamber. Automation in the knife LDCs is not provided. Charging and recharging is done manually. To do this, with the help of a special lever, the barrel with the chamber is turned around its axis, thanks to which the bolt is unlocked, after which the barrel can be taken out by translation. A cartridge is manually inserted into the chamber and all operations are performed in the reverse order. The barrel is locked by turning it, on two lugs on the chamber and on the lip of the contactor. The trigger mechanism is located behind the breech. For its cocking, it is required to pull the lever located on the side surface of the knife handle as far as it will go. The descent is performed using the button next to the barrel of the firing device. On the other side of the head of the handle is a safety lever that blocks the shutter release button. After a shot is fired, it is required to manually remove the barrel with the chamber and remove the sleeve from it. To facilitate the extraction of hot sleeves on the upper arc of the guard there is a semicircular cutout. The specificity of the application of the LDCs provides for shooting exclusively from short distances. In such cases, it is possible to conduct free fire, but the workers of the Central Research Institute Tochmash and TOZ equipped the knife with a gun. On the lower arc of the guard there is a cut-out, and on the bottom surface of the handle there is a front sight. The LDC was equipped with the same scabbard as the Cherry.

The first version of the Knife scout shooting was released relatively small series, which allowed us to collect information on the pros and cons of the design. At the same time, at the end of 70-x, the Central Research Institute Tochmash created a new cartridge with gas cut-off. The SP-4 differed from its predecessors by the piston remaining in the liner and the piston that did not protrude from it, and the new bullet adapted for firing at short distances. Gunsmiths with TOZ responded to the new cartridge by upgrading the shooting knife. The HPC-2 was made in accordance with the characteristics of the new cartridge. The new shooting device was almost no different from the old one. But the blade has undergone major changes. The blade “pike” was replaced with a descending butt line - it turned out that this form was more effective for piercing thick clothing. The HPC-2 blade was made of steel 25X17H2BSH and covered with “black chrome”. The file on the root of the blade's butt remained unchanged.



The HPC-2 also received a new sheath. Their plastic construction combines several tools at once. On the end surface of the scabbard there are nippers. They consist of two halves, one of which is rigidly fixed on the sheath, and the second is mounted on the screw and equipped with a long lever. On the stationary part of the pliers there is a small protrusion-screwdriver. It is alleged that with the help of a scabbard you can cut a telephone cable with a thickness of up to five millimeters or a steel wire with a thickness of 2,5 mm, twisted into two wires. Plastic insulator allows cutting wires that are live up to 380 volts. The sheath is attached to the uniform of a fighter in two ways: on the waist belt with a leather suspension or on the leg with a textile-rubber one. In addition to the scabbard with a knife, a small cartridge case for cartridges and a case with accessories for cleaning the shooting device and straightening the blade are attached to the harness.

Both shooting knives were created to ensure the defeat of the enemy at once in two ways. At the same time, balancing the LDCs and LDCs-2 allows not only to beat or cut them, but also to throw. However, in the case of LDCs, frequent throws were not recommended due to the possibility of damage to the firing mechanism. For this reason, a special liner is included in the HPC-2 knife kit, the mass of which is equal to the mass of the firing device. For practicing knife throwing, a fighter can take out the firing mechanism and install an insert in its place. Thanks to this, it is possible to train the accuracy of a throw without the risk of remaining in battle without firing mechanics.

LDCs and LDCs-2 were used and are being used in special units to perform specific combat missions. On the specific cases of the combat use of these weapons, unfortunately, is unknown. At the same time, based on the combat characteristics, it is possible to make assumptions regarding the characteristics of the application with great accuracy. This is the elimination of time, damage to communications, etc. Curious about domestic shooting knives story: The LDCs were made on the basis of the existing "ordinary" combat knife. The LDC-2, namely its blade, was made to some extent from scratch. The design of the blade of the second shooting knife was so successful that the military wanted to get a similar weapon, but without a shooting device. The result was the HP-2 opener, in the handle of which a case with a “survival kit” is placed.
56 comments
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  1. snek
    +1
    16 March 2012 08: 22
    It is, of course, an interesting idea, but is it really useful? It would be interesting to know if there was at least one case of shooting this knife in combat conditions.
    1. grizzlir
      +6
      16 March 2012 08: 50
      As you know, the pocket cannot be pulled. Consider the situation, the scout is going to remove the sentry and then another enemy appears. In his hands there is only a knife, we must act as soon as possible.
      1. -17
        16 March 2012 09: 48
        The knife is a noisy weapon ... It’s hard to kill a man with a quiet Pts ... brass knuckles or a brush is much more effective ... Nowadays crossbows are widely used ....
        1. grizzlir
          +10
          16 March 2012 09: 57
          I disagree about the brush, you judge by the concepts of street showdowns. If there is no silent weapon, then there are no competitors to remove the watch from the knife. There are points on the human body, if damaged, the victim will not make a sound. Crossbows are all from the movie, silent weapons reached such a level that the sound of the shot itself is not heard, only the quiet clanging of the shutter that is triggered is heard.
          1. -2
            16 March 2012 21: 08
            The soft clatter of the shutter that worked ... If you ever hear it, you’ll be very surprised how quiet it can be heard far in the morning ... As for the points, try to make them out ....
        2. +7
          16 March 2012 10: 04
          Quote: ward
          The knife is a noisy weapon ... It’s hard to kill a man by quiet Pts.

          belay belay belay

          probably you mean that it is noisy and hard to kill when you try to shoot from it? ...
          1. -7
            16 March 2012 21: 10
            On a quiet summer evening, go outside with a bottle of champagne .... Shake it well ... and open ... the sound will approximately correspond to a shot from a silent weapon ...
      2. Zynaps
        +5
        16 March 2012 17: 46
        no need to consider anything. alone sentinels are not removed. To capture or remove sentries, a capture group and a support group (cover) are always allocated. a partner of the sentry appears - they will remove him from the cover. LDCs are practically worthless in this situation. if you miss it, it’s impossible to reload it quickly, and the enemy will have time to yell and raise an alarm.

        "only a knife in hand" is from the films "Commando" or about Rambo. the barrel with PBS is pre-pushed into the bosom for quick extraction. but usually, they throw something like a sack on the sentry's head, squeeze the neck, and then do it according to the task at hand.
      3. Oktyabrist
        0
        28 March 2012 15: 33
        For some reason, I immediately imagined such a situation: the Scout guards in the forest in front of the enemy’s object, with a knife opens a can of stew and suddenly a wolf jumps out. An assault rifle behind him, a pistol in a holster, and no noise can be made. He deftly turns the knife and kills the wolf.
  2. +25
    16 March 2012 08: 45
    From the speech of the hand-to-hand instructor ... And now the fighters may come a moment when you missed ... all your cartridges ... lost their machine gun ... sapper blade ... knife ... And they met the same until ... bah from NATO ... then you will need hand-to-hand fighting skills ...
    1. Footmansur86
      +6
      16 March 2012 15: 05
      I forgot to add that we were on a flat platform, without stones and sticks wink
  3. +9
    16 March 2012 08: 50
    Who balabolit about it!
    Surely there have been cases of application. If you consider how many years the invention!
    DREAM OF TODAY'S BROADCAST!
  4. schta
    +15
    16 March 2012 09: 19
    Well, LDCs can be considered the last-last chance for a scout ....

    As one ancient Chinese sidekick said: "If you need the Shooting Scout Knife only once in your life, carry it with you all your life."
  5. Footmansur86
    +5
    16 March 2012 09: 33
    The knife is interesting, but more from the technical data of the blade, since the scout has enough means of silent shooting at the moment, only they go to the cinema with a knife, in life this is an extreme case.

    A knife for a scout is needed to a greater extent for household needs, rather than as a cold weapon, and even more so as a firearm.

    Consider the methods of reconnaissance:
    1. Reconnaissance by observation - it is unlikely to have to use anything at all except means of camouflage, observation and communication.
    2. Reconnaissance ambush - it uses mainly automatic small arms and mining equipment.
    3. A raid here and for a long time does not smell of edged weapons, it is advisable to perform a raid using equipment.
    4. Search is the most difficult way to conduct reconnaissance, here the knife is most useful, but most likely everything will cost by using special means of silent shooting, and physical strength (when taking the tongue) well, there are a couple of artisanal devices.
    P.S. The knife is good, but for me the HP-2 is more optimal, plus the ammunition for this knife is difficult to get, these ammunition doesn’t come in all parts, and almost everyone has intelligence.
  6. vostok
    +10
    16 March 2012 09: 34
    An excellent knife, when I served, we used it, but in the hostilities it was not possible to use the LDCs and thank God.
  7. +3
    16 March 2012 09: 45
    We had a case, two men of the day portrayed a fight on a bayonet of knives ... In principle, the blow was probably not strong, but under the collarbone it came under the handle .... Then in the dining room we tried on a pork carcass ... it’s like clockwork ... There was an experience of hand-to-hand combat with a bayonet ... they were not used separately ...
    1. Footmansur86
      +1
      16 March 2012 10: 46
      You seem to confuse the Bayonet with AK and NRS-1 (2), these are completely different knives.
  8. +4
    16 March 2012 09: 52
    I agree. The knife is excellent, the last "saboteur's chance". When he served he learned to own and use (SAKoNB). In reality, I did not use it. The knife is balanced, it can be thrown perfectly. One of the best achievements of the Soviet military-industrial complex. The problem with the ammunition, special cartridge. NRS-2 is indeed better than SP-4, more widespread. The GBshnikov had (is) a pistol under the SP-4 7.62.
    1. Zynaps
      +2
      16 March 2012 18: 04
      Quote: AK-74-1
      When he served, he learned to own and use (SAKONB).


      wow! Have I finally met a master who was trained in this most famous SACoNB, this legendary and Elusive Joe! he himself served in the Soviet special forces of the GRU, but he only heard about SACoNB from the "fighters of the invisible front" from the secret laboratories of the KGB-GRU, or he met in hudlite. Does a SACoNB manual even exist in nature? who are the authors? in what parts is it actually studied?

      Quote: AK-74-1
      The knife is balanced, perfectly throws.


      only he usually preferred HP-43. if something happens or you fall in love, there’s less hemorrhoids.

      Quote: AK-74-1
      At GBshnikov the pistol was (is) under SP-4 7.62.


      silent pistols PSS "Vul" and SME "Groza" (early version - S4M) were made not only for the GB, but also for military intelligence. were issued to commanders and senior reconnaissance groups due to the high cost of ammunition.
      1. 0
        16 March 2012 19: 29
        Better to discuss at a meeting! I will be in Crimea in August! If we have some coffee?
  9. rinzhak
    +1
    16 March 2012 10: 41
    even live steel wire can be cut - this is interesting!
    1. -3
      16 March 2012 21: 14
      No need ... unlike a movie in real life this is a rather noisy and brilliant event ...
  10. arkhip2020
    -5
    16 March 2012 11: 38
    The blade of most army knives has a special shape and design so that even with a small cut, the enemy will bleed.
    1. snek
      +9
      16 March 2012 11: 46
      What is it like? Blood loss does not depend on the shape of the blade but on the location of the cut. If just a muscle is cut, and large vessels are not affected, then there can be no big blood loss, but if the artery is cut (no matter what and what shape of the blade) then serious things are already
    2. Zynaps
      +4
      16 March 2012 17: 20
      if you mean the longitudinal grooves on the knife, called "valleys" (or "bleeding", as they are called suckers), they serve to lighten the knife blade and save material. in addition, a knife with valleys is easier to remove from the carcass than a knife without them.

      as they rightly commented on where the site of the lesion (large blood vessels, tendons, nerve nodes) is more important than the shape of the blade. a blow to a vulnerable spot can also be killed with a kitchen knife (which, according to police statistics, usually happens).
      1. Tyumen
        +4
        16 March 2012 17: 27
        Quote: Zynaps
        to facilitate knife blade and material saving.

        And for rigidity. And if the dales are offset (in Lezgi),
        this results in a stiffener over the entire thickness of the blade.
        1. Zynaps
          +3
          16 March 2012 18: 08
          a number of child experts seem to disagree with us. the neighbors in the stairwell and the brothers after the "zone" told them what, why and how.
          1. Tyumen
            0
            16 March 2012 18: 18
            To read Shalamov with Solzhenitsyn, so * experienced lessons *
            40 meters knives threw into the wall of the hut on the handle. wassat
      2. gunship
        0
        17 March 2012 14: 46
        Quote: Zynaps
        if you mean the longitudinal grooves on the knife, called "valleys" (or "bleeding", as they are called suckers), they serve to lighten the knife blade and save material. in addition, a knife with valleys is easier to remove from the carcass than a knife without them.

        Well, in addition to the foregoing, the dol gives strength to the longitudinal bending in swords, daggers and other bladed XO with a sufficiently long blade, and in the knife dol - puffs, more for beauty, and it is not on HP.
  11. Railways
    0
    16 March 2012 13: 55
    Documentary films from the studio Wings of Russia, even here they took information from them. Watch the entire series of films "Domestic rifle weapons"
  12. alps
    +5
    16 March 2012 14: 14
    The cartridge in the knife is more likely to be shot if something happens, because how to kill yourself is not very good.
  13. +5
    16 March 2012 14: 56
    LDC - the car is undeniably interesting. But I think that the knife should still remain a knife. A high-quality, simple and technologically advanced production item designed for homicide. But for silent and flameless shooting there is a specially designed firearm. Including under the cartridge SP-4 ....
    Respect for the excellent and high-quality material to the author. smile
  14. Comrade
    0
    16 March 2012 16: 22
    Knife saboteur, not a scout!
    1. +1
      16 March 2012 16: 32
      Scout If you call a saboteur a knife, then the resulting VAT will be confused with the tax. laughing
    2. Footmansur86
      -1
      16 March 2012 16: 44
      A sabotage without passage to the rear of the enemy is called sabotage)) And this is all Reconnaissance sabotage operations
    3. Zynaps
      -3
      16 March 2012 19: 05
      and saboteurs already exist in nature separately from scouts?
      1. Comrade
        -3
        16 March 2012 19: 25
        Why already? Always been separate. Exploration and sabotage are different operations.

        The shooting knife is already some kind of ponty ponty ... if there is a silent gun, then why the hell is this mess ?!
        1. Tyumen
          +3
          16 March 2012 19: 41
          If the trunk does not constructively interfere with functionality
          knife (and it does not interfere), then why not? He doesn’t ask to eat and drink.
          If a weapon has a chance to ever be applicable,
          then let it be. And the knife is excellent.
        2. Zynaps
          0
          17 March 2012 16: 58
          Quote: Comrade
          Why already? Always been separate. Exploration and sabotage are different operations.


          not always. only during the war saboteurs were separate. manned from volunteers, of which 43-50% died before the age of 75. Now reconnaissance and sabotage operations are inseparable. for special and deep intelligence in any case. or I propose to indicate troops engaged exclusively in sabotage.

          Quote: Comrade
          The knife shooting is already some ponte pear ...


          in fact, this is the "show-off" of the military industry. military scouts prefer the good old Cherry knife to the LDCs. in LDCs, ammunition is quite scarce and instead of firing into the handle, a special insert is placed.

          Quote: Comrade
          if there is a silent gun, then why the hell are you doing this ?!


          this, like, just in case of fire. the phenomenon rooted in espionage games during and after the war, when there was a fashion for all sorts of such suddenly shooting things, and silent standard weapons were exotic. time and technology put everything in place.
          1. Comrade
            0
            17 March 2012 21: 04
            Maybe I'm wrong, I have nothing to do with either of them, so I can only guess, but I think these are specialties that are very different from each other. Judging by your logic, those intelligence officers who extract information in NATO countries are the same saboteurs ?!
            If they tell me that we have no special squads of saboteurs in our troops, special forces, I will laugh for a long time (or cry). Still, I hope there is.

            If for example a detachment makes a 200-300 km throw, I don’t see the point of dragging this knife with me, it’s better to have a spare horn.
  15. 0
    16 March 2012 18: 02
    A good knife is always good ... and the dispute is how much it is important to slaughter someone in the "war")))) have been going on for a long time, I read the history of the development of a combat knife ... now they seem to agree that there should be such an opportunity, but it is not basic ... survival knife is basic. And the shooting knife ... I don't know ...
    1. +3
      16 March 2012 19: 34
      Decent weapon. And then LDCs are still more of a weapon. The survival knife should be a little different. There you need to chop branches to pick the ground, etc.
  16. -1
    16 March 2012 21: 20
    It’s very difficult to kill a man wearing a bulletproof vest, especially since now under modern helmets, neck rests are done ...
  17. Comrade
    0
    16 March 2012 21: 30
    I didn’t really read the article for the Christmas trees and argue))) It seemed to me that he was shooting with a blade, but here the cartridge ... I got the knives wrong))) And what kind of saboteur’s knife that shoots with a blade ??? Who knows?
  18. +2
    16 March 2012 22: 20
    Regarding the length of the blade. In antiquity, it was important not only to lighten the blade. After hardening the steel, it requires tempering, that is, the conversion of martensite to martensite or other structures, depending on the requirements for the hardness of the steel and its toughness. There could also be a warpage of the workpiece. To pre-heat it, it is possible to preheat. Earlier heat sources with the same temperature pressure as did not exist now. This means a gas-oxygen burner. In order not to overheat the blade itself in the hearth flame, and thereby not it is excessively soft. In the butt, the dol-thinner part is heated faster, thereby more is released, it becomes more viscous.
    Old masters, respect!
  19. vylvyn
    +5
    17 March 2012 02: 19
    The knife is excellent. In capable hands, any item will be a weapon. As for the noise of using a knife, here I am not an expert. However, I often heard from WWII veterans, people who actually went for their tongues, that there was no more silent and reliable weapon knife. They always took Finnish with them. The most effective strike (silent and instant death) is a stab in the throat from the side and a cut. Half a second and it's over. There was still a blow behind the shoulder blade (in the heart), but it required jewelry accuracy and it took more time until the shutdown. These are real stories of veterans.

    I read an anecdote about hand-to-hand combat in the comments above. Immediately remembered another story of a veteran of our Office (war veteran). In the war he was a sergeant. He was in hand-to-hand combat and got into such a story as in a joke, no cartridges, no knife, grappled with the German in the dead. They rode on the ground. But the German turned out to be stronger and strangled him a little. That last force grabbed his teeth in his throat and gnawed it. So it is not in vain that they say that in every joke (anecdote) there is some truth.

    With regard to LDC-2. We must pay tribute to our designers, who approached its development with such care. In fact, a simple Finn was turned into a technological weapon. And not just a weapon, but with a psychological connotation. The last cartridge is either for yourself (this is already at the subconscious level, when you know that there is one separate, special cartridge for an exceptional case), or for the enemy from whom you can then take his weapon and continue the battle. After all, we are talking about war, and it requires the soldiers to act bordering on blind rage. The one who is better prepared both physically and psychologically will survive in war. And the knife NRS-2 expresses this in the best possible way. It is one thing to beat with a machine gun or machine gun (although here, too, endurance and self-control are needed), and quite another, with a knife in hand, to face an opponent who may be stronger than you. The psychological aspect is always present in war. It was not for nothing that before the attack they always poured "People's Commissars", both ours, that the Germans were their own Fuhrer.

    Here is my opinion. I do not impose it on anyone. Everyone has their own vision, which I respect.
    1. Tyumen
      +1
      17 March 2012 17: 40
      Quote: vylvyn
      Here is my opinion. I do not impose it on anyone

      You extremely accurately expressed my attitude. Himself
      always considered finca and its derivatives as a universal knife.
      Starting from the Finnish * with a bitch * in the hands of Zhigan (A ticket to life),
      and ending with the shooting Finnish NRS-2!
      1. vylvyn
        0
        18 March 2012 04: 48
        Comrade General, thanks for the support. And then in the beginning someone even minusered me. Probably some very smart gunsmith and strategist and coryphaeus in all military sciences, who went through all the wars since 1914.
  20. MIKK1972
    0
    17 March 2012 14: 01
    It’s not economically profitable (only with a shooting knife it’s not very), but to be or not to be a matter of taste, the simpler the more reliable for me, to each his own.
    1. OilGas2011
      +3
      18 March 2012 01: 49
      it is not economically profitable only with a ballistic knife in the USA, the blade flew away and that’s all :)))) sit with one handle :))))))))))
      1. vylvyn
        0
        18 March 2012 04: 56
        I understood a joke, I put a plus.
      2. Tyumen
        0
        18 March 2012 08: 59
        Quote: OilGas2011
        ballistic knife USA

        This is a modernization of the ancient Chinese spring * javelin throwers *.
        Only worse.
    2. vylvyn
      0
      18 March 2012 04: 52
      Of course. It is not profitable to arm the entire army with such a knife. I think everyone will agree with this. The knife is exclusively for specialists.
  21. 0
    17 March 2012 21: 58
    In the process of killing pigs ... it was tasty according to the stories ... got an invaluable experience in handling cold weapons at one time .. The process was long ... it was very similar to a horror movie ... I couldn’t eat it and I dreamed about it for a couple of nights .... I was at that time 15 years ...
  22. -1
    18 March 2012 16: 16
    Yes, I also feel sorry for the pig, and here you are arguing about the knives with which a person is poked ... Here is one fact, any Masulman cuts a ram several times in his life .... But what's the point of discussing the parameters of a knife if you know for sure that you have NOTHING WILL GET ...
  23. +2
    20 March 2012 15: 15
    Abdullah: "The dagger itself is neither good nor bad, but good for the one who has it and bad for the one who does not have it at the right time."