Military Review

Keep the pace: Turkish industry for the army of his country

64



From rifles to tanks, The Turkish defense industry is rapidly moving forward towards the goal declared by the government - to reduce dependence on foreign weapons to 20% or less.

Earlier this year, the Turkish Ground Forces Command (TLFC) at the official ceremony at a small rifle factory weapons the state corporation Mechanical and Chemical Industry Corporation (MKEK) received the first batch of 500 MRT-76 assault rifles. This 7,62mm rifle was developed in collaboration with the private company KaleKalip as part of a national infantry rifle project to replace the long-standing 7,62mm Heckler & Koch G3 assault rifles produced at MKEK's plant in licenses.

In 2015, after successful testing of prototypes and pre-production models, the Turkish Defense Industry Authority (SSM) issued MKEK contracts for the manufacture of 20000 rifles and KaleKalip for the manufacture of 15014 rifles. Ultimately, about 500000 MRT-76 rifles can be purchased to equip the Turkish army, fleet, air force and paramilitary gendarmerie numbering 152000 people.


The MRI-76 assault rifle was developed as part of a national infantry rifle project

Jerk

This indicates the progress that Turkey has made in the development of its own defense industry, especially in the land weapons sector. During the ceremony, Defense Minister Fikri Isik said that Turkey’s dependence on the purchase of foreign defense technologies declined from 80% 15 years ago to 40% today. "Our goal is to reduce this figure to 20% and below."

As early as February 2017, SSM issued a contract to Sarsilmaz for the manufacture of 10000 rifles, thus Turkey received three separate production lines for the production of the MRI-76. The SSM statement states that "the MRI-76 will also be sold to friendly countries that need light weapons."

Several NATO countries produce small arms, but Turkey’s unique distinction is that it is the only member of the alliance that has built the main battle tank (MBT) from scratch over the past 20. This project exemplifies the significant progress that the local defense industry has achieved in the field of armored vehicles.

The Turkish armed forces are armed with almost 2500 tanks - the largest fleet of European members of NATO. But most of these outdated models are armed with 105-mm cannons, for example, the American tanks of the M48 and M60 series and the German Leopard 1. The most modern MBTs in the country are 325 Leopard 2A4 tanks armed with an 120-mm cannon, and 170 MXXUMX tanks upgraded to the M60T standard, which include the installation of an 60-mm smooth-bore MG120 gun manufactured by Israel Military Industries. Turkey, however, decided to build its own tank.

In March, 2007, the SSM, chose Otokar as the lead contractor for the Altay national tank project, placing it in charge of design, development, integration, prototype testing and qualification. The management chose Hyundai Rotem, a South Korean company, to provide technical assistance and assistance, since it has extensive experience in creating a K2 tank for its army.

The local partners of the lead contractor are Aselsan, which developed the Altay tank fire control system (FCS), the information control system and the remotely-controlled weapon module (DUMV) installed on the turret; MKEK, manufacturing under the German license 120-mm smoothbore gun L55; and Roketsan, which has developed and will produce a modular booking package. Aselsan is also developing the Akkor Active Protection System, which must be installed on the Altay tank in accordance with the contract issued at the end of 2015.

Otokar manufactured fire test and running test installations in November 2012, the first Altay Prototype Vehicle 1 prototype (PV1) at the end of 2013, and the second prototype PV2 in the middle of 2014, as well as hulls and towers for ballistic and anti-explosion tests. During the acceptance and qualification tests from the middle of 2015 to February 2017, these vehicles hit more than 23000 km on various types of terrain in different climatic conditions and shot more than 2500 shells of various types.


The Turkish Defense Industry Authority is expected to issue a serial production contract for the first batch of Altay tanks to Otokar at the end of this year.


Mass production

TLFC has a stated need for more than 1000 Altay tanks, which will be manufactured in several batches. Otokar was the only company that applied for the production of the first batch and presented the best and final offer in 2016. SSM announced in its strategic plan for 2017-2021 years that it plans to sign a contract for the production of the first batch of 250 Altay tanks by the end of this year, which is likely to lead to the deployment of the first 15 tanks in the 2020 year and 20 tanks in the army in 2021 year.

Peripetias with one of the components of the project demonstrate why the Turkish government is so keen to reduce its dependence on foreign defense technologies. All prototypes of the Altay tank are equipped with a power unit MTU Euro PowerPack with a power 1500 hp, consisting of an MT 883 Ka 501 engine and an Renk HSWL 295TM automatic transmission. From the very beginning it was planned to install this power unit on 250 tanks of the first batch, and on tanks of subsequent batches the power unit of local development.

In 2015, SSM signed a contract worth 190 million euros with a local company, Tumosan, to design a Turkish engine for an Altay tank with technical assistance from a foreign company. At the same time, it was clear that Ankara will own the intellectual property rights to the engine that will be born in this project.

Only the Austrian AVL List agreed to conditions for the transfer of such technologies, but in November 2016, the country's parliament imposed an embargo in response to massive human rights violations sanctioned by the Turkish government after an attempted coup in July 2016. In January, Tumosan canceled its contract with the AVL List, and the following month, the Turkish SSM office canceled its contract with Tumosan.

From the very beginning of the project, Turkey has been promoting Altay to the export market, including possible agreements on local production. Otokar confirmed that it submitted an application in August 2013 for Oman’s demand for 77 tanks, and also named Saudi Arabia and Azerbaijan as potential customers.

Mobile ATGM

In June 2016, the SSM signed a contract with FNSS on the 76 Pars 4x4 armored vehicles and 184 tracked mobile anti-tank missile systems (ATRA) Kaplan. The agreement provides that FNSS will complete the design, development and qualification tests of the prototypes in 2018, followed by the mass production of 260 machines, all of which will be delivered to 2020.

At the IDEF 2015 defense exhibition, FNSS expanded its Pars (Leopard) armored vehicle family, which already had options in the 6xXNNXX and 6x8 configuration, showing the 8X4 version designed to meet the requirements for ATGW transporter. In the car Pars 4x4 two-or five-door configuration accommodates up to five crew members. It can be equipped with turret installations, protected turrets or DUMV, armed with weapons of caliber up to 4 mm or ATGM complexes for various combat missions.

At the IDEF exhibition, FNSS also showed the Kaplan platform (Battle Ax) in 2015 BMP configuration with the new Teber-20 turret, which is armed with an Orbital ATK MK30 dual-powered X-gun and is available both in the crew and without the flight gear. configurations. When installing Teber-30 unmanned turret in the aft compartment, there is a place to accommodate 40 paratroopers, and when installing a twin turret, their number decreases to 44. The reinforced suspension of the Kaplan machine allows it to withstand heavy loads, including turrets armed with an 30-mm cannon.

For the ATGM project, all Pars 4x4 and 104 Kaplan vehicles will be equipped with an unmanned turret armed with four Roketsan OMTAS missiles with an 7,62-mm machine gun as an auxiliary weapon. Roketsan developed an OMTAS rocket with a range of 4 km along with a UMTAS helicopter with a range of 8 km to meet the needs of the ground forces. OMTAS infrared-guided missile can operate in several modes: target acquisition before launch, target acquisition after launch, homing, and operator guidance. The remaining 80 Kaplan machines will be equipped with Cornet-E launchers, which are already in service with the Turkish army.

Fire support

Choosing the Korean company Hyundai Rotem as a technology partner for the Altay tank, the SSM Directorate hopes to repeat the success of another major project being implemented jointly with the South Korean partner. In 2001, Turkey signed a contract with Samsung Techwin (currently Hanwha) for the development and local production of the Turkish 155-mm / 52 modification for the K9 Thunder self-propelled howitzer, which was developed in 1989-1998 for the Republic of Korea army.

The howitzer T-155 Firtina (Thunder) is manufactured at the Army Center for Maintenance and Repair using components supplied by Turkish enterprises, including 155-mm / 52 cal artillery manufactured by MCEC and computerized OLS from Aselsan, and, if necessary, also by foreign companies.

Production at local facilities began in 2002 and continued with the capacity of the 24 system per year to meet the army's need for X-NUMX Firtina howitzers; According to some estimates, at the start of the 300, about 2017 systems were manufactured.

In agreement with Samsung Techwin, MKEC is promoting ACS Firtina to foreign markets. Azerbaijan signed a contract with the Turkish government to supply the Firtina 36 howitzers, but it was suspended because the German government’s observance of the arms embargo imposed by the OSCE on Armenia and Azerbaijan does not allow MTU to supply its 881 KA diesel engine MTU-500.

To supply the Firtina howitzer, the Turkish army developed a HARV (Howitzer Ammunition Resupply Vehicle) ammunition hauling vehicle, in order to reduce the cost of using the components of the decommissioned M48 tanks. The production of HARV, capable of carrying 96 shells and 96 charges, began in the middle of the 2015 year; It is expected that up to 80 of such machines will be manufactured.


Production of the most powerful artillery system of the Turkish ground forces continues - 155-mm self-propelled howitzer Firtina

At IDEF 2017, MKEK presented a self-propelled version of the towed 155-mm / 52 Kal Panter howitzer developed in 90-ies to replace the 155-mm American guns M114, whose age exceeded the 60-year milestone. Panter has the traditional design of a carriage with sliding beds with auxiliary propulsion system with power 160 hp. in front of the carriage and hydraulic rammer.

The gun can fire high-explosive fragmentation shells M107 at a distance of 18 km and RP-shells with a bottom gas generator at a distance above 40 km. Reportedly, since the first cannon was commissioned in 2002, more than 250 units have been manufactured. Panter was sold to Pakistan, where it is manufactured under license from the local company Heavy Industries Taxila.

MKEK, in collaboration with Aselsan, developed the Panter 2 prototype by installing the upper part of the howitzer on the chassis of an off-road 6x6 truck. The 20 toner unit Panter 2 will carry 20 rounds in ammunition, the maximum speed will be 80 km / h and the maximum cruising range 600 km.

Since the number of Firtina howitzers is less than one-third of the 1076 self-propelled howitzers in the Turkish Armed Forces, it is likely that the army will purchase additional Firtina systems and possibly an ACS Panter 2.

Turkey is the only NATO country that in recent years has created a new 105-mm towed howitzer. The MKEK company, working in conjunction with Aselsan, developed Vogan to meet the needs of the army in an airborne lightweight towed howitzer and to replace approximately 75 towed M101А1 guns that are still in service. The tests and qualifications of Vogon ended in August last year, and the mass production of 106 systems was supposed to begin this year.

MKEK has developed two different prototypes, one for the Turkish requirements, and the second for the export market, both of which were shown at the IDEF 2017 exhibition. The howitzer consists of a barrel caliber 105 mm long 30 caliber, a vertically falling type shutter, a hydropneumatic recoil mechanism and a three-chamber muzzle brake. The Turkish army version has arcuate beds, such as the light gun 105-mm guns from BAE Systems, while the export version has a more common carriage with sliding beds, like the M101 and Nexter LG1 howitzers.

The Vogan 105-mm howitzer is equipped with an Aselsan OMS. When firing a high-explosive fragmentation projectile with a bottom notch, the gun was able to reach the maximum range of 17 km, which is 50% more than the American MHNUMX howitzer. A trained calculation can achieve a rate of six shots per minute.

Swim forward

SSM in March 2017 signed a contract with FNSS to develop the ZAHA airborne combat vehicle to equip the Marine Corps brigade. Turkish power projection capabilities will increase significantly after the assault ship of the local construction, which is based on the Spanish all-purpose amphibious assault ship Juan Carlos I., planned for the 2021 for the year, FNSS will supply 27 ZAHA vehicles, including 23 armored personnel carriers, two staff vehicles and two evacuation vehicles . In the development and production of ZAHA, FNSS will be able to use the experience of BAE Systems (owns 49% shares of this Turkish company) in the production of Assault Amphibious Vehicle airborne assault vehicles for the United States Marine Corps.

The mass of the ZAHA armored vehicle will be 30 tons, the crew will be three people, the 21 paratrooper will be able to accommodate it. It will be equipped with an unmanned turret with an 12,7-mm machine gun and an 40-mm automatic grenade launcher. The ZAHA armored vehicle (figure below), unloaded from the landing craft a few kilometers from the coast, will be able to cover this distance even when the sea is rough to 1,5 meters.

Keep the pace: Turkish industry for the army of his country


The superintendent of heaven

Cannon and missile systems of local development will significantly increase the capabilities of the Turkish army air defense in the next decade. At the moment, near-airspace cover is provided by the PMADS (Pedestal Mounted Air Defense System) anti-aircraft complex with Stinger rockets "ground-to-air", created in the middle of 90's by Aselsan.

In order to fulfill the Turkish requirements, two options were developed: Atilgan with PMADS launcher with 8 missiles and 12,7 mm HMG machine gun mounted on the chassis of the M113А2 armored personnel carrier, and Zipkin with the PMADS launcher with 4 missiles installed on the Async model that was used by the asyn-15-year-17; . Starting in 130, the Turkish Air Force bought 4 Atilgan and 4 Zipkin complexes; the second complex was exported to Bangladesh and Kazakhstan.

After the SSM Office recently issued a contract to the main contractor Aselsan for an unbridgeable number of systems, mass production of the Korkut self-propelled self-propelled gun with a paired 35-mm artillery unit began.

The FNSS subcontractor specially developed the chassis for this installation - the floating armored vehicle Combat Vehicle 30 (ACV 30). With a total mass of 30 tons, this is the widest and longest vehicle in the ACV family, including the ACV 15 model, of which 2249 units were manufactured in several versions for the Turkish army, as well as for Malaysia, the Philippines and the UAE, and the ACV 19 model, which was sold to Malaysia and Saudi Arabia.

For the Korkut project, MKEK supplies the 35-mm KDC gun, manufactured under license from the German Rheinmetall Air Defense, which is installed in a crewless tower. The gun ammunition includes an air-blasting projectile, developed in collaboration with Aselsan. In the Korkut corps there is a gunner, commander and driver. A typical Korkut battery will consist of three anti-aircraft installations and a control vehicle also based on the ACV 30 chassis, equipped with a three-coordinate search radar for tracking and capturing targets at a maximum range of 70 km. The first four Korkut systems are scheduled to be deployed to troops in 2019.


Aselsan Korkut ZSU with twin 35-mm artillery mount is based on the ACV 30 floating machine from FNSS; currently being manufactured for ground forces

Rocket umbrella

Aselsan is also the lead contractor for the development and production of two other components of the future air defense system: the Hisar-A low-altitude missile complex and the Hisar-O medium-altitude missile system. Hisar missile systems are being developed in collaboration with FNSS and Roketsan.

The Turkish Army plans to acquire Hisar-A launchers in tracked and wheeled configurations. The tracked version (photo below) has a vertical launch launcher for two Roketsan Hisar-A missiles mounted on the sides of the ACV 30 chassis, which also has an airspace viewing radar and an optical-electronic sighting station, allowing work independently of the divisional command post. The crew of the Hisar-A complex consists of a commander, an operator and a driver. The wheeled variant will be a six-cassette launcher on the rear platform of the 6x6.


The Hisar-O complex is a Roketsan Hisar-O launcher with six missiles on a Mercedes-Benz 6x6 chassis. This system is designed to work as part of a battery consisting of three launchers and a control center with an optical-electronic aiming system and a radar.

Hisar-A missile tests began in October 2013 of the year, and in August 2014 began the first ballistic tests of the Hisar-O missile. These two rockets are distinguished by a high level of uniformity, for example, they have the same infrared homing head from Aselsan, a high-explosive fragmentation warhead (developed by Tubitak Sage) and a detonator operating in percussion and remote modes. The area affected is the Hisar-A rocket at an altitude of 5 km and at a distance of 16 km, and the Hisar-O rocket at 10 km and 25 km, respectively.

Aselsan expects to complete the development and factory testing of the Hisar complex by 2018 year. The Turkish government and industry are optimistic that projects on air defense complexes and other systems will increase the capabilities of the Turkish army and the export potential of this country.

On the materials of the sites:
www.nationaldefensemagazine.org
www2.msb.gov.tr
www.mkek.gov.tr
www.ssm.gov.tr
www.otokar.com.tr
www.fnss.com.tr
www.aselsan.com.tr
www.roketsan.com.tr
www.hanwhatechwin.com
pinterest.com
defense-blog.ru
www.wikipedia.org
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64 comments
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  1. Nix1986
    Nix1986 5 September 2017 07: 22
    +4
    Good and detailed article. Well done that they develop the military industrial complex and orient it for export as well. True, to be honest, the samples presented are the level of the 90s, the tank is a classic OBT such as Leo 2 of the first modifications or Challenger 2, it is unlikely that it will reach the sep2 abrams and where it goes to Armata. BMP level of our BMP2, air defense system in a purely small execution (not combi like a tunguska or shell). Yes, and a strange choice of 7,62 caliber for the main small arms. In general, wait and see.
    1. Monarchist
      Monarchist 5 September 2017 08: 28
      +1
      Nix 1986 I myself drew attention to the caliber 7,62 ,. Almost all armies are switching to a caliber of 5,35-5,45, and they have 7,62.
      1. Nix1986
        Nix1986 5 September 2017 08: 41
        +2
        About the choice of caliber in favor of 7.62, I read only one important reason. These are collections of memoirs of the US Marines on the Vietnamese war. Often I had to shoot in the green, and foliage, grass, bushes got up on the trajectory of the bullet - 5,56 left the trajectory, and 7,62 kept a confident trajectory due to the greater weight of the bullet. Perhaps the Turks simply have 7,62 rounds of ammunition, and 5,56 need to be purchased. In general, it is not yet clear.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 5 September 2017 14: 37
          +3
          "This is a collection of memoirs of the US Marines on the Vietnam War. Often had to shoot in the green, and foliage, grass, bushes stood on the trajectory of the bullet - 5,56 left the trajectory" ///

          This was noticed and corrected back in the 70s of the last century.
          1. Nix1986
            Nix1986 5 September 2017 14: 42
            0
            Then the more strange choice of caliber.
            1. jjj
              jjj 5 September 2017 19: 58
              +1
              Real trials in Russia dispelled the myth of bushes that interfere with precision shooting. Both 7,62 and 5,45 showed almost the same results. In the mid-70 of the last century, much was said about bullets, which, after contact with the target, begin to “somersault”, inflicting very serious injuries. Here, apparently, these are echoes of that time
          2. Michael newage
            Michael newage 6 September 2017 01: 16
            +1
            How was this fixed?
      2. marshes
        marshes 5 September 2017 14: 56
        0
        Quote: Monarchist
        Nix 1986 I myself drew attention to the caliber 7,62 ,. Almost all armies are switching to a caliber of 5,35-5,45, and they have 7,62.

        They simply replace the German assault rifle with their own.
        7,62x51 Marxan ammunition.
        1. aws4
          aws4 6 September 2017 04: 04
          0
          wow the first race I hear about such a cartridge, I thought a rifle-machine gun
    2. mgero
      mgero 5 September 2017 09: 49
      0
      Well done ????? They are our competitors and our market is being taken over by great fellows!
      1. Vadim Kurbatov
        Vadim Kurbatov 5 September 2017 09: 58
        +1
        What captures that? price also plays a big role and maintenance of equipment too
      2. Nix1986
        Nix1986 5 September 2017 10: 31
        +2
        This is a neutral news and review resource and its name is not "RussiaProtectiveAll." The author of the article is banned for advertising the Turkish military-industrial complex ?!
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 5 September 2017 18: 23
          0
          Quote: Nix1986
          The author of the article is banned for advertising the Turkish military-industrial complex ?!

          Exactly so, it’s easy to do such articles here.
      3. Astoria
        Astoria 5 September 2017 16: 03
        0
        Well, how would competition in the market benefit everyone who is able to withstand it.
        why are there "well done"!
        - let there be cattle laughing
      4. 32363
        32363 5 September 2017 18: 42
        +4
        Quote: mgero
        Well done ????? They are our competitors and our market is being taken over by great fellows!

        whose are you ??? churks our customers, as it is correctly written in the article, engines, transmission, gun everything is German, as well as merkava laughing Glory to the German pushkomotorotransmysyostroenie.
        1. LastPS
          LastPS 7 October 2017 10: 15
          0
          This is a very correct approach, in the end, no one cancels the fact that Turkey is fully capable of copying transmission motors in the future or developing something of its own on this basis, if there is such a need (and it is, at least, with MBT, judging by according to information from the article). No one ever disdained copying either the USSR at one time, or China, or Israel. Relatively small forces to upgrade the army to a modern level, albeit on the basis of other people's technologies, while developing its military-industrial complex is very cool and correct.
    3. Pan_hrabio
      Pan_hrabio 5 September 2017 18: 07
      +1
      Actually a pretty logical move. Due to the development and spread of personal protective equipment, modern intermediate ammunition is becoming ineffective. The first bells of a return to 7,62 have already appeared in the USA.

      https://topwar.ru/122111-pentagon-obyavil-tender-
      na-zakupku-vintovok-kalibra-76251-mm.html
  2. Graz
    Graz 5 September 2017 08: 57
    +6
    all these are Potemkin facades, in reality the army is running around with junk, in other matters, we have not gone far from them, declaring dofig, and if you look at the linear parts, then nifiga
  3. mgero
    mgero 5 September 2017 09: 46
    +1
    Sell ​​weapons to Azerbaijan Kazakhstan !!! Is this our market? This is our direct competitor, and in addition we sell S-400 with technology, well, then we need it, did the SU-24 seem a little?
    1. SergF123
      SergF123 5 September 2017 14: 06
      0
      Eeehhhh ... absolutely in Europe he op..rel ... was stupid, but how would their weapons samples get into the Russian Federation ?!)))), so that we would take copies of them, stick the wooden stocks for our latest developments they gave out ?!))) - You are in the Eropé so thinking about Russians ?!
      1. marshes
        marshes 5 September 2017 15: 01
        +1
        Quote: SergF123
        Eeehhhh ... absolutely in Europe he op..rel ... was stupid, but how would their weapons samples get into the Russian Federation ?!)))), so that we would take copies of them, stick the wooden stocks for our latest developments they gave out ?!))) - You are in the Eropé so thinking about Russians ?!

        I don’t know what kind of optics and arrays Belarusians use in Sosna-U tank sights, but in Astana, Aselsan opened a line for the production of lenses, optics, and night vision devices using Yu.Korean matrices. Belarusians were early, very much interested. So 8 years have passed.
    2. Seal
      Seal 5 September 2017 15: 42
      +4
      Because the country neighboring Azerbaijan always raises such a howl when we sell him something of weapons. And she herself wants to get everything for free.
      1. genisis
        genisis 5 September 2017 16: 09
        0
        And she herself wants to get everything for free.

        It’s interesting that Azerbaijan’s neighbors got a freebie from Russia?
        when we sell him something of weapons.

        So Russia has long been selling nothing new to Azerbaijan.
        All deliveries, according to agreements concluded under President Medvedev.
        The new contracts are netuti.
  4. andrewkor
    andrewkor 5 September 2017 10: 52
    0
    Something not a word about cooperation with Ruin to create a tank, but did Prasha and Turk kiss each other on this occasion? And 7,62 for any killer 5,56 advantage only in the weight of the ammunition wearable.
    1. otto meer
      otto meer 5 September 2017 12: 20
      0
      Quote: andrewkor
      And 7,62 for any killer 5,56 advantage only in the weight of wearable ammunition.

      Don't talk nonsense.
      1. andrewkor
        andrewkor 5 September 2017 16: 38
        +1
        But essentially, in joules it is desirable.
        1. tracer
          tracer 5 September 2017 17: 43
          0
          5.45 and 5.56 calibres are much more "killer". At 7.62 x39, the penetration is higher, less rebound. But getting a bullet shallow, but at a higher speed, guarantees its rupture and fragmentation and, as a result, more serious and fatal wounds. Turning the wound canal into FRS. At 5.56 the BULLET TURNS OFF, EXPLOSING 5 centimeters in the body, at 5.45 by 7.5 centimeters. At 7.62x39 about 15 centimeters. Sews on a departure shorter. And these calibers are designed to destroy precisely the living target of the enemy. And you in joules ... The tiger against 34 ki was also more powerful and what?
          1. andrewkor
            andrewkor 5 September 2017 19: 27
            +2
            Well, yes, in gel targets, and if you put them in a bronzer? A tiger that was dragged out of business, and even compared with thirty-four, like a DShK with a DP!
          2. andrewkor
            andrewkor 5 September 2017 19: 49
            +1
            Dear Tracer, thank you for intervening for Herr Meyer. How did you get the idea that the Turks use the Soviet cartridge, maybe NATO 7,62 * 51? I want to note that the fragmentation of the bullet is more dependent on the design than on the caliber, the Yugoslav bullets had a special groove and broke very badly. Well, for your information: 5,45 * 39 = 1316; 7,62 * 39 = 1991; 5,56 , 45 * 1798 = 7; XNUMX
            , 62 * 52 = 3276 everything in J. (Murakhovsky. "The infantry weapon")
        2. otto meer
          otto meer 5 September 2017 19: 50
          0
          I don’t remember the numbers right now, about 3800 for 7.62x51 versus 1600-1900 for 5.56x45. In absolute terms, yes 7.62 is certainly more powerful, but this advantage can be realized only at a distance of over 600-800 meters. For modern assault rifles, an unattainable range. To the same distances, with a defeat of 7.62, he will give away 20 percent of his FE, safely passing on. 5.45 will give all its energy. So let's calculate what is more powerful (killer) 20% of 3800 or 1600? Therefore, 7.62 is justified for sniper weapons, for a machine gun but not for a gross Mabutyan rifle. This is for "slaughter." For other (equally important) parameters, I can also justify.
          1. andrewkor
            andrewkor 5 September 2017 20: 40
            +2
            Dear Otto, tell me what percentage of the bullet’s energy will be spent breaking through the armor, car body, brick wall, door and what will be left to hit the target? All reservations that I know that, civilian cars, that military body armor by class take all the same protection from TT, AKM, SVD t, e, 7,62 mm!
            1. otto meer
              otto meer 5 September 2017 22: 57
              0
              And let's look at armor penetration. For NATO, I’m sorry, I don’t have exact data, but I don’t want to guess. Let’s go through our paths, especially since there is only one trend for 7.62x51 and 5.56x45, which is for 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. Do you agree? So:
              1. X 5,45 39 -mm armor-piercing cartridge 7N-22 with a bullet RS-51 with a core made of high-carbon steel grade U12A. Punches: 16 mm structural steel St3 at a distance of up to 200 m, 5 mm armor - up to 250 m, BZ 3 protection classes - up to 250 m.
              2. X 7,62 39 -mm armor-piercing incendiary cartridge BZ (7N-23 with a bullet RS-51 with a core made of high-carbon steel U12A). Penetrates 5 mm armor at a distance of up to 250 m.
              Do you see the difference in armor penetration? Here. Penetration, at effective distances, is the same - here is parity. Hope convinced you? On energy and armor penetration sorted out. Let's go through some other parameter.
          2. garri-lin
            garri-lin 5 September 2017 22: 43
            0
            Respected. How much% of the energy a bullet will transmit to a target depends largely on the design of the bullet. And this figure can be brought closer to 100. (expansive).
            1. andrewkor
              andrewkor 6 September 2017 06: 07
              0
              So Harry is just as not attentive as Otto, I expressed my opinion that “7,62 is killer than 5,56”, and not armor-piercing, more precisely, and so on. My mistake is that I did not indicate a specific ammunition, namely 7,62, 51 * XNUMX, hoping that it’s obvious to opponents, but in vain. And you didn’t answer the question of what comes with a bullet after breaking an obstacle. About Dum-Dum I know no less than yours, all hunting bullets are such that there would be no wounded from principles of humanism.
              1. otto meer
                otto meer 6 September 2017 09: 05
                0
                Quote: andrewkor
                I expressed my opinion that "7,62 is killer than 5,56", and not armor-piercing, more precisely, and so on
                Well, let it be so, but here's how to interpret just such your phrase
                Quote: andrewkor
                And 7,62 for any slaughter 5,56 advantage only in the weight of wearable ammunition.
                ??? Explain.
                And so that such misunderstandings would not happen, let's speak correctly. What does slaughter mean? There is no such characteristic. There is a lethal action of a bullet. It is identical to the stopping action of a bullet, but taking into account mortality. And again, with a low-pulse, non-stabilized cartridge, it is higher than that of a rifle-machine gun, at (I repeat) working automatic distances. In other characteristics, 5.56 (5.45) also surpasses, or does not concede, 7.62. You can argue, I am always open to constructive discussion.
                Next, again, misunderstanding
                Quote: andrewkor
                About Dum Dum, I know no less than yours, all hunting bullets are
                All hunting bullets doom-doom?
                1. andrewkor
                  andrewkor 6 September 2017 11: 09
                  +1
                  Well, if only an elephant or a rhino in the forehead, then yes, you need an armor-piercing Nitroexpress type 700 NE. Try to stop a boar or a tiger with the best armor-piercing bullet, I won’t envy you, to reliably defeat the beast and use expansive bullets, as Harry correctly noted, for recoil all energy for the purpose and to turn the beast upside down. And yet, we are not in defense of the dissertation in order to find fault with the terms: slaughter, killer action are synonyms in my opinion, I hope you perfectly understood what it was about. But from the forbidden action of the bullet You are gracefully gone.
                  1. otto meer
                    otto meer 6 September 2017 12: 55
                    0
                    Quote: andrewkor
                    But from the stranded action of the bullet you gracefully left.
                    Thanks I was trying laughing According to GOST 50744-95, penetration is successful - while maintaining sufficient (now I do not remember exactly, but something about 80 J and higher) residual energy and residual speed (also not accurate) 200 m / s. Those. minimum sufficient for guaranteed armor-less damage.
                    Quote: andrewkor
                    Try to stop the boar or tiger with the best armor-piercing bullet, I won’t envy you, for reliable defeat of the beast and use expansive bullets, as Harry correctly noted, to give all the energy to the target and to turn the beast upside down.
                    Here you are all dumped in a heap: wild boars, tigers, elephants, zabronovoe action, stopping. We talked about the standard NATO army ammunition for the gross rifle. So? What does the elephants and tigers have to do with it? And then the stopping action of the bullet? Let's stick to the subject of discussion.
                    Quote: andrewkor
                    And yet, we are not in defense of the dissertation in order to find fault with the terms: carcass, carcass action are synonyms in my opinion, I hope you perfectly understood what we are talking about.

                    No, of course not. But I proposed to operate with generally accepted terms precisely in order to avoid confusion in what you said and what I understood. By the way, from doom-doom you also gracefully left. (hopefully). Or you don’t see the difference between JSP and HP / JHP (I would not want to).
                    1. Razvedka_Boem
                      Razvedka_Boem 7 September 2017 11: 23
                      0
                      "For the first time, the Marine Corps announced the insufficient capabilities of 5,56 mm cartridges, evaluating the actions of soldiers in Afghanistan in 2004. The Marines complained about the short range of the bullet, because of which the enemy using a 7,62 mm caliber weapon had a fire advantage "In 2009, the U.S. Army adopted the Enhanced Battle Rifle (EBR), an upgraded version of the M14 rifle in 7,62 × 51 mm caliber."

                      "But, after General Mark Milli, speaking in the Senate, announced that the 5,56 mm M855A1 cartridges were unable to penetrate the latest bulletproof vests, parliamentarians approved a larger-caliber rearmament program."

                      "The military.com portal announced that the US Department of Defense has announced a tender for the purchase of an Interim Combat Service Rifle (ICSR) caliber 7,62 × 51 mm."

                      Several years will pass and the caliber of army weapons less than 6 mm will be a thing of the past.
                      1. otto meer
                        otto meer 8 September 2017 09: 38
                        0
                        Here! I see the words not of the boy, but of the husband! I see the Internet being searched for an answer. Now let's go in order.
                        Quote: Razvedka_Boem
                        "For the first time, the Marine Corps announced the insufficient capabilities of 5,56 mm cartridges, evaluating the actions of soldiers in Afghanistan in 2004. The Marines complained about the short range of the bullet, which is why the enemy using a 7,62 mm caliber weapon had a fire advantage .
                        All right. But please note that questions arose only during operations in Afghanistan, and this is a very specific DB theater. Long distances, elevations, squally variable winds. I know what I'm talking about, because It's been 15 years since I’ve been doing mountain hunting since .308 Win. mag. and studied the ballistics of this BP quite well. In urban battles, and this is just now the main type of battle, at distances up to 250-300m., 5.56x45 is not inferior and exceeds the .308th. I also know what I'm talking about - I have some experience in this matter. Further.
                        Quote: Razvedka_Boem
                        In 2009, the U.S. Army adopted the Enhanced Battle Rifle (EBR) - an upgraded version of the M14 rifle in caliber 7,62 × 51 mm.
                        Accepted. Yes. And you saw a lot of that rifle in the troops?
                        Quote: Razvedka_Boem
                        But, after General Mark Milli, speaking in the Senate, announced that the 5,56 mm M855A1 cartridges were unable to penetrate the latest bulletproof vests, parliamentarians approved a larger-caliber rearmament program.
                        Yes again. It was a deal. This is an attempt to drag Grendel. How did it end? Have you seen Grendel in the army?
                        Quote: Razvedka_Boem
                        Several years will pass and the caliber of army weapons less than 6 mm will be a thing of the past.
                        No matter where they go. Firstly, the economy. Secondly - it is not necessary tactically. Thirdly, there is nothing to change, there is no alternative so far.
                        Another thing is that the Americans began to use 7.62 (we used it) more actively based on the specifics of their LDP. That's all. hi
  5. Monarchist
    Monarchist 5 September 2017 12: 13
    0
    Quote: Graz
    all these are Potemkin facades, in reality the army is running around with junk, in other matters, we have not gone far from them, declaring dofig, and if you look at the linear parts, then nifiga

    It depends on what you mean. If the tanks, then sorry, Armat is not yet, and so the update and noticeable
  6. Monarchist
    Monarchist 5 September 2017 12: 54
    0
    In connection with the Turkish Aitay, I had the following analogy: the Uzbek car Raw4, we immediately look at a beautiful comfortable car, and take a closer look at all the well-known Matiz and Nexia. And their "grandfather" was called: Opel Cadet. In any case, this Raw is inferior to: Prior, Fawn, and even more so Honda, Fokusy gelding or Folks
    See for yourself: Samsung (they already don’t have enough TVs and mobiles) took Leo of the first models (great-grandfather was called Pzw3) a little podshaman and the tank was ready, and now the Turks a little podshaman and rolled out their Altay of course the car is pretty reliable, but ... ..
    I believe that only two tank schools “rule” the world: Germans and we, comrades with the star of David, don’t
    Download, but the First one was called "grandfather"?). Of course Abrash is a good tank, but the Americans didn’t have time to stick a jacuzzi there, and the Germans and we are creating cars for the war
    1. marshes
      marshes 5 September 2017 15: 15
      +1
      Quote: Monarchist
      Uzbek car Raw4

      And not Toyota Raf-4? So they collect from you, from your wife, judging by the VIN code, and charged, with minced meat.
      Quote: Monarchist
      we immediately look at a beautiful comfortable car, and take a closer look at all the well-known Matiz and Nexia. And their "grandfather" was called: Opel Cadet. In any case, this Raw is inferior to: Prior, Fawn, and even more so Honda, Fokusy gelding or Folks

      Matiz is unlikely to relate to Opel, it is closer to GM y, the further development of DEU Tiko. But Nexia is a descendant of the Opel Cadet, or rather Daewoo Resser. And its value, in the hodovka and engine, is freely paid to Lada Priora, Grant and wins at a price , on this and banned the cart to the EAEU countries. laughing Yes, the build quality is better, unlike a bucket of nuts.

      Quote: Monarchist
      I believe that in the world only two tank schools “rule”: Germans and we

      Here you are indisputably the trendsetters.
    2. 32363
      32363 5 September 2017 18: 50
      +1
      Quote: Monarchist
      I believe that in the world only two tank schools “rule”: Germans and we

      you don’t even understand how much you’re right, I’ll say more, in the year 2008 somewhere, your ural car builders came to Germany to order a new unit for (it became clear to everyone) a new tank, but local German short-sighted stupid people refused ... later yours did it yourself .... what exactly will I omit ..
    3. protoss
      protoss 5 September 2017 23: 04
      +1
      Quote: Monarchist
      Samsung (they already have few TVs and mobiles)

      You have a superficial understanding of this company. In addition to TV and mobile, they build ships and skyscrapers and much more that they produce. huge holding.
      1. otto meer
        otto meer 6 September 2017 09: 16
        0
        Quote: marshes
        Yes, the build quality is better, unlike a bucket of nuts.
        Who, Nexia after the 97th? Here you are laughing! Honestly! After the Koreans drove from Uzbekistan, Nexia turned not only into a bucket of nuts, but into a string bag.
    4. andrewkor
      andrewkor 6 September 2017 15: 11
      0
      Your stupidity of me, illiterate, just killed on the spot, like an expansive Dum Dum.
      1. otto meer
        otto meer 6 September 2017 18: 24
        0
        This is yes, it’s hard to grab the tops and then try to hide illiterate statements with verbal juggling.
        All arguments essentially ended? Getting started "do.u.r.a.k."
  7. Bormanxnumx
    Bormanxnumx 5 September 2017 12: 56
    0
    Self-propelled version of the towed 155 mm / 52 cal Panter howitzer .... The cannon can fire high-explosive M107 high-explosive shells at a distance of 18 km and HE shells with bottom gas generator at a range of over 40 km.

    In the magnitude of the firing range of the HE shell (18km) there is no typo? Maybe 28km and not 18km., For example, for the M109 with a 155/39 gun, the HE firing range reaches 22km.
  8. SergF123
    SergF123 5 September 2017 14: 03
    0
    The Turks always had good equipment and a large army, if only to learn how to master the technique, but stop running from the battlefield with wet pants!))
  9. svp67
    svp67 5 September 2017 17: 07
    +3
    but Turkey’s unique distinction is that it is the only member of the alliance to have created a main battle tank (MBT) “from scratch” over the past 20 plus years.
    All weapons produced by Turkey now have in their beginning WESTERN weapons and were not created from scratch. Including this tank. The primary basis of which was the Korean K2, created by a German company, based on "Leo2"
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 5 September 2017 18: 33
      0
      Quote: svp67
      All weapons produced by Turkey now have in their beginning WESTERN weapons and were not created from scratch. Including this tank.

      This is an amazing understatement. What is Turkish in this tank? No, I do not mean development, at least production?
      1. svp67
        svp67 5 September 2017 22: 57
        +3
        Quote: Setrac
        What is Turkish in this tank?

        Crew
    2. protoss
      protoss 5 September 2017 23: 08
      +2
      the article is not about “advanced” Turkish developments, but about the fact that by purchasing licenses, by creating a joint venture, and somewhere, with their own innovations, they localize the production of almost all types of weapons in their own country.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 5 September 2017 23: 16
        0
        Quote: protoss
        the article is not about “advanced” Turkish developments, but about the fact that by purchasing licenses, by creating a joint venture, and somewhere, with their own innovations, they localize the production of almost all types of weapons in their own country.

        It’s all pointless because you’ll always be behind if you don’t start developing your own, but the Turks don’t.
        1. protoss
          protoss 6 September 2017 00: 19
          +1
          their task is not to get ahead, but to provide the army and the gendarmerie with their own, and therefore less expensive, weapons. politically - this reduces dependence on NATO partners.
          plus the localization of such industries is employment, this is an increase in the level of education and qualifications. Well, export - in 2016, 1,5 billion tanks are also not superfluous.
  10. protoss
    protoss 5 September 2017 18: 10
    0
    showed the Kaplan platform (battle ax)

    the correct translation is "tiger"
  11. partizan86
    partizan86 5 September 2017 20: 18
    0
    In the last photo, the body of the car is very much like the M113, whether it is made on its basis.
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 5 September 2017 22: 51
      +1
      An article about joint activities with Koreans is written. wink
  12. Anton Yu
    Anton Yu 5 September 2017 22: 23
    0
    All foreign-made equipment and weapons assembled in Turkey. Turkish there are only names.
  13. aws4
    aws4 6 September 2017 04: 06
    +1
    well done Russian tourists vacationers and consumers of Turkish goods continue to arm the historical enemy of Russia
    1. LastPS
      LastPS 7 October 2017 10: 35
      0
      Well, give an alternative. Ahhh, so it is not and is not expected, well then keep quiet in a rag. As long as the service of our resorts is not higher, and the prices for them are not lower than Turkish, go away with your cheers-patriotism, in fact, we have capitalism for a long time - uncompetitive industries must either change or die. I generally am silent about light industry, Russian brands keep all production in China, unlike the same Turks.
      1. aws4
        aws4 8 October 2017 03: 47
        0
        1) there is no alternative !!!! and it is unlikely to be in the near future !!!! 2) a person can be called a person, including because of the ability to refuse something wrong but desired, and if he is not capable of it then it is no longer a person but just a body, a piece of meat !!! 3) I’m not a patriot, and I have never been one, and to put it mildly, it really turns me off from this word and from the so-called patriots of statesmen ... 4 Yes, I go to rest on our coast and I know that the service we sucks and I spend money on my calculations 2 times or even 3 times more, but my darling is calm and I am not arming the army of the historical enemy of my Fatherland ... not the state, but the Fatherland ... but you will send your friends and acquaintances away and shut up ... and if you such a brave messenger-clerk then come and shut me up personally in real life and not here ... give contacts in PM ???
  14. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 8 September 2017 14: 10
    0
    otto meer,
    I see the words not of the boy, but of the husband! I see the Internet being searched for an answer.

    Sometimes it’s easier to search the net for answers than to formulate and prove ..)
    For the rest - the new American armor is not pierced by an armor-piercing bullet 5.45.mm. These bulletproof vests are already equipping troops deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq. And this is not an assault kit weighing a couple of tens of kg.
    So wait and see .. If you're lucky ..)
    1. Vadim Kurbatov
      Vadim Kurbatov 9 September 2017 06: 00
      0
      Where did the Avgans get bp 5.45?