The project of self-propelled mortar 2C41 "drok"

46
The domestic defense industry continues to develop promising artillery systems of various classes and regularly demonstrates its success in this area. Thus, during the recent international military-technical forum "Army-2017" several options for the development of the already well-known project 2С41 "Drak", involving the creation of a self-propelled mortar based on existing platforms, were shown. It is noteworthy that the exhibition showed two models of similar equipment with certain differences.

According to known data, the self-propelled mortar 2C41 "Drok" has been developed by order of the Ministry of Defense over the past few years. The project is created in the framework of the experimental design work with the cipher "Sketch". The first mentions of this OCD refer to the beginning of the 2014 of the year. Then the Central Research Institute "Burevestnik" published a video describing his work and telling about new projects. Among other things, the video showed the work on the perspective “Sketch” machine, but then the main details of the project were not disclosed.



According to later published data, the purpose of the “Sketch” program was to create promising models of highly mobile artillery weapons on different chassis. As carriers of the new weapons Both wheeled armored vehicles and two-link tracked carriers were considered. Subsequently, one of the variants of the architecture of such a combat vehicle was allocated to a separate OCD with a rather complex name indicating its “origin”.


Engineering development of the Central Research Institute "Burevestnik" at the exhibition in December 2016. Foreground - mortar 2С41 "Drak". Photo Soyuzmash.ru


As part of the development work "Sketch" an additional R & D was developed with the complex name Sketch-Drok-KSh. The aim of this project was the development of a promising combat vehicle based on the existing domestic-made wheeled chassis. This model was to receive a new combat module with an 82-mm mortar, as well as one or another auxiliary weapon. The result of the new development project was to become a self-propelled mortar called "Drok". As can be seen from its name, the responsible persons decided to continue the “vegetable-floral” line of names.

Last year, new data on the design and development work “Sketch” was published, from which it became known that the project was being developed in accordance with the contract signed in August 2015. According to the original work plan, a prototype self-propelled mortar should have been submitted before the end of 2016. The acceptance tests were supposed to be completed in February 2018 of the year, state tests - by the end of September. In this case, there is reason to believe that the project could not meet the deadlines.

In December last year, an exhibition of promising developments in the field of weapons and equipment was held as part of the regular board of the Ministry of Defense. TsNII "Petrel" demonstrated its latest achievements with the help of several layouts. It was during that exhibition that the results of the design and development work “Sketch-Drok-KSh” were shown for the first time. The Institute and the Main Rocket and Artillery Directorate demonstrated a large-scale model of the 2СXNNXX “Drok” self-propelled mortar based on the Typhoon-K armored car K41.

Apparently, this particular model was present at the Grau stand at the Army-2017 forum. The overall architecture or configuration of this self-propelled mortar has not changed - the layout retained all the old features. At the same time, at the recent exhibition the second model of the combat vehicle was shown, showing the further development of the project. This model was present at the stand of the Petrel Research Institute. It is noteworthy that the older model, demonstrated by the Main Rocket and Artillery Directorate, retained the original color in a protective color. The new copy of the combat vehicle, in turn, received the characteristic camouflage used by the Uralvagonzavod corporation.

Despite certain changes in the main combat module and, possibly, other units, both versions of the self-propelled mortar 2C41 "Drok" are proposed to be built on the basis of the armored vehicle K4386 "Typhoon Airborne." This machine, as its name implies, was created specifically for the airborne troops and therefore has a number of characteristic features. The draft armored car provides protection from small arms and explosive devices. Depending on the wishes of the customer, the machine can receive one or another weapon, up to a remotely controlled combat module with an 30-mm automatic cannon.

Depending on the configuration used, the K4386 armored car can have a full weight of up to 13,5 tons. Diesel engine with an HP 350 power. allows you to reach speeds of up to 100 km / h on the highway. Inhabited compartment can accommodate up to eight seats, including the driver's seat. Landing is made through the side and aft door. The project proposed the use of anti-bullet reservation, and in addition, measures were taken to reduce the negative impact of the shock wave of the explosion. The available stock of carrying capacity and durability of the chassis allowed the use of the Typhoon Airborne armored vehicle when developing a promising self-propelled mortar.

The first model of the 2C41 “Drak”, shown at the end of last year, demonstrated the main features of the new combat module. On the chase in the stern of the protected hull it is proposed to mount a combat module with a mortar having the required characteristics. Part of the device module is placed inside a compact armored body. At the same time, some units are displayed inside the body, which allows servicing weapons from the crew compartment.

The tower of the "last year" combat vehicle was distinguished by comparative simplicity of form. It consisted of several large parts with straight edges, placed at different angles to each other. Directly on the chase it is proposed to install a cylindrical unit, on top of which the main dome of an asymmetrical shape should be placed. So, the left side of the inclined front sheet should have a smaller width. The central and aft parts of the tower also had to differ in their size. Such features of the dome were associated with the use of the remote machine-gun installation: an additional machine gun was proposed to be mounted outside the tower on the swinging left-side installation. The roof of the tower with a mortar was placed with a noticeable tilt back. In the stern provided additional support for the installation of smoke grenade launchers.


Armored car K4368 "Typhoon Airborne" with a combat module, carrying 30-mm gun. Photo Bastion-karpenko.ru


One of the main ideas of the project "Drok" was the use of a removable-portable mortar. In the frontal part of the new tower, the installation tools for the mortar were installed, which allowed firing in the configuration of a self-propelled combat vehicle, or removing weapons and using them as a wearable system. The design of the gun mount provides the possibility of vertical guidance within a wide sector. Horizontal guidance - a circular, turning the entire tower.

The main weapon of the 2C41 armored vehicle “Grok” is an 82-mm breech-loading mortar with manual loading. Such a weapon is capable of firing at targets at ranges from 100 to 6000 m. Without restoring aiming, a mortar can show a firing rate of up to 12 rounds per minute. Ammunition - 40 mines transported in the fighting compartment. Enhanced accuracy characteristics are claimed, providing certain advantages over other artillery systems of a similar class.

Additional armament self-propelled mortar consists of one machine gun and several smoke grenade launchers. A remote-controlled installation with a machine gun rifle caliber is placed on the left side of the tower. In the stern of the sides, the installation of a pair of supports with three smoke grenade launchers on each side is envisaged.

Keeping the dimensions at the level of the base armored car, the new model 2C41 "Drak" is distinguished by a greater combat mass. This parameter has increased to 14 t. At the same time, the main characteristics of mobility should remain approximately at the same level. To manage the machine and its weapons should a crew of four.

The first model was presented at the end of last year and, apparently, showed the state of the project at that time. Over the past few months, the Petrel Research Institute and related enterprises have managed to change the project and improve the combat module with a mortar. All this led to both the processing of the appearance and the emergence of a new layout. In particular, it was decided to distribute the armament of the combat vehicle between the two combat modules, which allowed freeing up the volumes inside the main tower with a mortar. All these improvements were shown on the Army-2017 forum with the help of a new layout.

The refusal to equip the module with a machine-gun made it possible to simplify the construction of the dome of the tower. Now it has a less complex form and consists of a smaller number of panels. On the lower platform of the module, it is proposed to mount the box with a sloping frontal sheet, the embrasure of which is complemented by a polygonal protruding device with a vertical window. The rectangular roof of the module is located at a slight angle to the horizontal. Boards and sterns are made vertical. Due to the new design of the dome, the round platform partially protrudes beyond the limits of its forehead and sides.

The main weapon of Drok, despite the completion of the dome, remains the same. As in the previous version of the project, the armored vehicle should carry an 82-mm breech mortar suitable for quick dismantling and installation back. Already existing 40 shots can be left inside the fighting compartment, as well as various equipment for aiming. Loading the mortar is made from the treasury.

Of all the initial additional weapons, the combat module retained only smoke grenade launchers. At the same time on each side of the tower is now proposed to mount six such products. The upper horizontal row of three grenade launchers should fire at the front hemisphere, the lower one - back.

The project of self-propelled mortar 2C41 "drok"
"Last year's" model of the 2C41 machine at the Army-2017 exhibition. Photo Bmpd.livejournal.com / Vastnik-rm.ru


Despite the processing of the combat module, the self-propelled mortar must retain the possibility of self-defense and carry the appropriate weapon. To protect against infantry at short and medium range, it is again proposed to use a machine gun on a remote-controlled installation. In this case, the machine gun should now be used as part of a separate module. On the presented model this product was located in front of the roof, above the driver’s workplace.

A curious feature of the updated self-propelled mortar became additional means of detection and warning of the attack. On the roof of the stern compartments of the hull of the model were placed the blocks of the equipment of the optical-electronic countermeasure complex. Probably, this equipment should be used for the correct and timely use of smoke grenade launchers. Other means of protection affecting the optics of the enemy are not seen on the layout.

It can be assumed that the processing of the design of the combat module and the introduction of machine-gun armament to the additional remote-controlled installation led to some increase in the combat mass, but did not make this parameter unacceptably large. Thus, the driving performance of a self-propelled mortar 2C41 "Drak" can remain at the level of the basic armored car "Typhoon Airborne". Despite all the changes, the crew probably remained the same.

According to published data, a promising combat vehicle with an 82-mm portable carry-on mortar is intended to arm battalion artillery batteries. It can be used by artillery units from the composition of motorized rifle, assault landing and mountain battalions. In fact, the 2C41 "Drock" system is considered as a mobile alternative to existing mortars of the 82 mm caliber in a carry or towed version.

The advantages of such a technique are obvious. With its help, mortar gunners of ground or airborne troops will be able to quickly move to the most convenient position and, without losing time for preparation and deployment, open fire on the specified target. Having made the shooting, the self-propelled machine can immediately go to another position or to the rear to replenish the ammunition. The chassis, characterized by high maneuverability, will seriously increase the tactical mobility of the gun.

The base armored car K4368 "Typhoon Airborne" was developed by order of the command of the airborne troops and for this reason has some characteristic features. In particular, it is adapted for parachuting and landing landing. This fact seriously increases the strategic mobility of technology, as well as expands the scope of its application.

In the case of a direct collision with infantry or unarmored vehicles of the enemy, the crew of the mortar "Grok" will be able to protect themselves with the help of an existing machine gun. It should be noted that a newer version of the armored vehicle has a certain advantage in this context. A separate combat module with a machine gun allows you to fire at targets in the near zone, regardless of the use of mortars. The first version of the 2X41 project did not give such an opportunity: the placement of all weapons on the turret excluded the shooting of mortars and machine guns in different sectors without alternately restoring their aiming.

A self-propelled mortar has serious advantages and is distinguished by a fairly high combat potential. At the same time, the authors of the project from the Petrel Research Institute and the Main Investigative Institute provided for the possibility of using weapons in a different configuration. If necessary, the mortar barrel can be removed combat module, supplemented with the necessary devices and used as a wearable weapon. After completing the assigned combat missions, the calculation can quickly mount the barrel on the machine and continue working.


The new version of the self-propelled mortar 2C41 "Drok", presented by the Central Research Institute "Burevestnik". Photo Bmpd.livejournal.com / Vastnik-rm.ru


An ambiguous feature of the 2C41 "Gorse" project can be considered the type of the main tool selected. The breech-loading mortar caliber 82 mm became the "main caliber" of this armored vehicle. Systems of this caliber are capable of effectively solving certain combat missions, but at the same time may not be considered as the most effective. Thus, in the field of self-propelled mortars, 120-mm systems, which have advantages in the form of firing range and the power of ammunition, have been widely spread for a long time. However, according to the decision of the customer, it was decided to use the less powerful mortar in the framework of the design work “Sketch-Drok-KSh”. Probably, when creating such a technical assignment, the army took into account certain factors that are still unknown to the general public.

According to reports, to date, the project Drok 2C41 has been implemented, at least in the form of the necessary documentation and two layouts, demonstrating a self-propelled mortar in different configurations. Information about the existence of full-fledged prototypes is currently not available. Nevertheless, prototypes could be built by now, but for one reason or another, the fact of their existence has not yet been disclosed. New information on this may appear in the near future.

According to already known information, a prototype of a new type of self-propelled mortar should have appeared no later than the beginning of the current year. Until the end of January, 2018 was planned to conduct acceptance tests, and by early October, it was necessary to sign an act of conducting state tests. How much of the necessary work has been completed so far has not yet been clarified. The fact of the presence at the “Army-2017” exhibition of equipment mock-ups instead of full-fledged samples can be interpreted, among other things, as a sign of the unavailability of prototypes.

However, even with all the possible problems of new projects, the actual results of the OCD "Sketch" may appear in the very near future. In the foreseeable future, prototypes can be tested, showing all their strengths and weaknesses. According to the test results, the military will have to decide on the adoption of a self-propelled mortar for armament and the deployment of mass production. It can be assumed that the production of such equipment, mainly based on existing components, will not be associated with serious difficulties.

With a favorable set of circumstances, the absence of serious problems of one kind or another, and the successful accomplishment of all the tasks posed, the new self-propelled mortar 2C41 "Drock" can be put into service at the end of this decade. As a result, by the mid-twenties the army will be able to receive a significant number of combat vehicles capable of positively affecting the combat capability of the ground and airborne units. However, for the time being, the operation of new self-propelled mortars based on the Typhoon Airborne Troops armored vehicle remains a matter not for the nearest future.


On the materials of the sites:
http://russianarms.ru/
http://vestnik-rm.ru/
http://bastion-karpenko.ru/
http://soyuzmash.ru/
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/
http://twower.livejournal.com/
http://altyn73.livejournal.com/
46 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +14
    30 August 2017 17: 19
    To date, the author, with his ability to broadcast for a long time, should be snapped up for anything everywhere, from television to the bar and politics.
    And the last paragraph is something fantastic.
    “With a favorable set of circumstances, the absence of serious problems of one kind or another and the successful solution of all the tasks set, the new self-propelled mortar 2C41 Drok can be put into service already at the end of the current decade."
    The phrase should be immediately adopted by officials at all levels, since it contains an excuse from any questions for all occasions.
    Further even more casuistic.
    “As a result, by the mid-twenties, the army will be able to get a significant number of combat vehicles that can positively affect the combat effectiveness of land and airborne units. However, while the operation of new self-propelled mortars based on the Typhoon-Airborne armored car remains a matter of the near future. "[i] [/ i].
    Summarizing the foregoing, we conclude that the timing of adopting a self-propelled mortar in overcoming all the difficulties and the favorable position of the stars is scheduled for the end of the current decade of the mid-twenties of the near future.
    1. +2
      30 August 2017 21: 56
      And you were not too lazy to read all this. smile
      I can smell this author from the first lines, and immediately go down to the comments.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  2. 0
    30 August 2017 18: 26
    Thanks for the flower series. The plant did not even know about the existence of such a flower. I hope "Drok" as artillery, will also be a surprise
  3. +2
    30 August 2017 18: 26
    After the 1 Chechen company, the internal troops removed the 82 mm mortars from their armament, leaving only 120 mm.
    I think in the Defense Ministry they will not use the 14 ton machine with such a stick.
    1. 0
      30 August 2017 18: 52
      Why not like it? Here, by the way, there are pluses too. Modern guidance, a large ammunition load, if breech-loading, then a rifled barrel with good accuracy. The British did not seem to have adopted 120 mm at all. We used only such a caliber, and at the same time the range was like that of 120 mm, within 6000 m.
      1. +1
        30 August 2017 18: 58
        I think I did not like the small power of the ammunition. In battles with fighters there were equal chances: they and we have 82 mm. Now in the Russian Guard 120 mm mortars towed specials. Ural car. Cheap and cheerful.
        If you want a self-propelled version, then 120 is better, it will be more powerful. And to carry a mortar on an 14 ton machine, which is not practical for carrying 2 people.
        The British have a different logic of weapons, they do not have much reliance on artillery.
        1. 0
          30 August 2017 19: 17
          Well, the developer is probably sure if he offers. Too much power is the inability to fall. And carrying it all the same is better than wearing it. The British created a howitzer with three sevens, as it were, saying that everything is normal with logic.
          .
          1. 0
            30 August 2017 19: 26
            Too much power is the inability to fall.

            I was kind of embarrassed to blame all the mortars for their inability to shoot. Read carefully:
            "There were equal chances in the battles with the militants: they and we have 82 mm."
            The British created a howitzer with three sevens, as it were, saying that everything is normal with logic.

            I did not say that their logic is not normal. It is simply different.
            1. 0
              30 August 2017 19: 36
              Perhaps not so put it. The inability to hit was meant technically ... not having the ability to hit accurately. And this car can have a completely different level.
        2. +4
          31 August 2017 08: 13
          Quote: glory1974
          I think I did not like the small power of the ammunition.

          Small compared to what? In addition, do not forget about the new 3-O-26 mine, which, in its fragmentation effect, came close to 120 mm ammunition. And if you go along the American path, using normal modern fuses, and not the junk of the development of the 40s of the last century, then this mine will even overtake in a fragmentation 120-mm mine.

          Quote: glory1974
          to transport a mortar on a 14 ton machine, which 2 people carry inappropriately.

          Three people carry it. Without ammunition, with which in the "portable" in general, everything is very rotten. Because of them, the "Tray" is essentially not a "portable" but a "transportable" mortar. Because how to pull an adequate BC calculation is not capable.
          1. 0
            31 August 2017 10: 31
            Small compared to what?

            Small compared to 82 mm for militants. To have an advantage switched to 120 mm.
            And if you go along the American path, using normal modern fuses, rather than the junk of the development of the 40-s of the last century, then this mine will even overtake in the fragmentation 120-mm mine.

            I agree. But if you apply innovations in 120, it will be equal to 152.
            We had mortars still 43-45 of release. As probably shot a resource there were no new ones, also one of the reasons why they left 82 mm.
            You can’t argue about the BC. But again, I think that at least 14 mm should be placed on the 120 ton machines.
            Doliva63 Yesterday, 21: 11 ↑
            Immediately I imagined how a grenade platoon in defense is digging in with its 40-mm grenade launchers installed on such machines

            Smiled.
            1. 0
              31 August 2017 10: 54
              Quote: glory1974
              Small compared to 82 mm for militants.

              Not quite clear. How can the same firearms differ in the power of the target’s action, depending on which one fires them?

              Quote: glory1974
              I agree. But if you apply innovations in 120, it will be equal to 152.

              Not equal. A "large" 120-mm mine, equal in power to a 152-mm projectile, firstly, will not be lifted, and secondly, it will break the existing 120-mm mortars when fired.
              1. 0
                31 August 2017 11: 45
                How can the same firearms differ in the power of the target’s action, depending on which one fires them?

                Meant that we should have an advantage. Forcing us to fight with the same weapons as the enemy’s wrong. You need to have more, better, longer-range, etc.
                The "large" 120-mm mine, which is equal in power to the 152-mm projectile, firstly, will not be lifted, and secondly, it will break the existing 120-mm mortars when fired.

                with this more or less clear.
      2. +8
        30 August 2017 21: 03
        Well, this one also has up to 6 declared. But two questions: why such a little thing? where does the British? Is it about increasing the power of the battalion artillery of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation or small Britain?
        1. 0
          31 August 2017 10: 34
          where does the British? Is it about increasing the power of the battalion artillery of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation or small Britain?

          meant that the army of two types. Anglo-Saxon and Prussian. The Prussian type has more reliance on land artillery, because they are fighting on the mainland. The Anglo-Saxons in the first place the fleet and aviation.
          why such a little thing?

          and I'm about the same. If you put so 120.
      3. +2
        31 August 2017 00: 40
        Quote: Denimax
        if breech-loading, then the rifled barrel

        M-d-ah! Duc, if the grandmother has a member, then it will be grandfather!
        1. 0
          5 September 2017 16: 38
          It will be a European grandmother)
    2. 0
      30 August 2017 18: 56
      The chassis of the "typhoon airborne" is quite expensive .... for the money you can steal a normal combat vehicle, and not any "jerks" ...
      The choice of weapons puts into a stupor ... on machines of this class it is better to put a 40 mm or 57 mm automatic grenade launcher ... (As on the last module "Epoch")
      1. +3
        30 August 2017 20: 55
        At 14 tone, if you try, then you can put a “cornflower”. Plus a microdron for visual control of the shooting result.
        1. +1
          31 August 2017 00: 58
          Now, if he was double-barreled and automatic - he would not have a price.
        2. +1
          31 August 2017 02: 30
          indeed, in the world there is a tendency to automatic mortars, and in the caliber 120mm. The same AMOS on the chassis of Patria, a very powerful system and we have nothing alternative. Using the MRSI system provides a simultaneous approach to the target 14 min 120mm !!! This is the MLRS. It is clear that for a 120mm system a 14-ton platform is not enough, but Cornflower is a viable concept for itself, MTLB weighs only 10 tons and coped well with external placement. Together with the new automated aiming systems, a toothy machine of fire support could have turned out, and the enthusiasm is incomprehensible. Perhaps Cornflower is already technically outdated, but why even the Turks are developing automatic mortars for mobile platforms, and we have completely forgotten this direction. Reminiscent of the KV-1 with a 76 mm gun, it’s the same as placing a 12 mm caliber barrel on the 4.5 mm sniper rifle bed ..... A cognitive solution.
          1. 0
            31 August 2017 07: 53
            Quote: avdkrd
            The same AMOS on the chassis of Patria, a very powerful system and we have nothing alternative.

            ?
            Nona, Vienna, Hosta ...
            Quote: avdkrd
            indeed, in the world there is a tendency to automatic mortars, and in the caliber 120mm.

            There are no such. The only automatic mortar in the world is the Cornflower. Well, and his clones
            There are systems with semi-automatic loading, but they are not very common.
            1. 0
              31 August 2017 12: 19
              Well, apparently AMOS doing 10 shots in 4 seconds - no.
              1. +2
                1 September 2017 07: 13
                Quote: avdkrd
                Well, apparently AMOS doing 10 shots in 4 seconds - no.

                Exactly. AMOS is not an automatic mortar.
                Moreover, formally, AMOS is not a mortar at all, because it uses not 120-mm mines, but special ones for firing. ammunition created with their use (a special short “sleeve” for obturation is used there. It’s like on our tank shots).
                At AMOS, as far as I know, only 12 shots are in the automatic loader. However, it does not provide a change of charge, this must be done in advance, in the process of filling it. The rest are charged manually, and the working conditions of the charger are simply disgusting
                1. 0
                  20 December 2017 10: 13
                  Moreover, amos cannot shoot
                  Quote: avdkrd
                  10 shots in 4 seconds

                  After each double shot, the gun goes to the loading line, then the projectile moves to the rammer from where it is sent to the barrel, and only then a new double shot is fired.
        3. 0
          26 June 2018 08: 24
          respect and respect
      2. +9
        30 August 2017 21: 11
        Immediately I imagined how a grenade platoon in defense is digging in with its 40-mm grenade launchers installed on such machines laughing
  4. 0
    30 August 2017 21: 08
    Serious device.
  5. +1
    31 August 2017 00: 55
    The Americans have experimental installations (self-propelled and towed) based on the traditional (smoothbore, muzzle-loading) 120-mm mortar with automatic muzzle loading ...
    1. +1
      20 December 2017 10: 18
      Yes, it is called dragonfire, unlike any "nona", "vein", "gorse", etc. it consists of two separate modules, a machine and a mortar trailer, due to this, the weight is reduced and it becomes possible to transport elements on two conventional helicopters. But our "analogues" of this can not.
      1. 0
        20 December 2017 11: 19
        Exactly, he is the most! Once, I “watched” this mortar, but not even the entire video, but the video fragment in a TV show like “Military Secret” and did not know the name. Thank you for the info. hi
        1. 0
          20 December 2017 13: 56
          There, by the way, there are other analogues, but they are not so famous ...
          1. 0
            20 December 2017 14: 39
            Yes. There are analogs, but they are more similar to Nona. I, quite, liked the Russian Highlander complex.
            1. 0
              20 December 2017 16: 58
              honestly, the highlander will say tremendous shit, because without the advantages of either a dragon or a nona, he possesses their shortcomings. In general, the highlander is a wheeled version of the German self-propelled mortar based on the Wiesel. In my opinion, it’s better either Nona or the dragon, or better, both this and that, but in different units.
              1. 0
                21 December 2017 01: 34
                I nevertheless believe that it is not necessary to “judge strictly” the “Highlander” metro complex. "Nona", "Highlander" are simply different approaches to the implementation of a common (self-propelled mortar complex) concept. At the same time, the "Highlander" retains the "continuity" of the "good old" mortar: you can "take off" the mortar and go with it to where you "can’t drive on the cart." "Nona" is no longer a mortar ... it is a single gun (cannon-howitzer-mortar) on a self-propelled protected "base", which has some "mortar" properties. The same thing happens with the analogs of "Nona" - it’s usually rifled breech-loading guns (although there are smoothbore ....... but breech-loading) ... in fact, they are mortars. And due to what qualities the mortar "stood out" from the mortar family? Simplicity, compactness, acceptable weight — all this is lost in the so-called “self-propelled mortar complexes.” The “dragon fire,” which is based on the “almost classic” muzzle-loading mortar, is a little apart. But here, “it's not easy”: they were going to make it "final" breech-loading .... it turns out the same mortar. As for the "Highlander," he can "figure out" the automatic loader (from the barrel). I figured out the design, it should not be too complicated and cumbersome. this still retains the ability to use the mortar in the "classic eskom "option.
                1. +1
                  21 December 2017 09: 52
                  The fact of the matter is that the "classic mortar" is a tool for firing from a trench in a trench. It seems nothing has changed since the first or second world? And if you check? And if you think about it? But if you think about it, it turns out that today classic mortars are useless, because they take a long time to unfold, shoot a little, and even are destroyed after the first volley. But at the same time, mortars are very necessary due to the steep trajectory of the projectile that the howitzers cannot provide. So they are trying to find a way out, but in my opinion they are looking for it not where it is needed.
                  1. 0
                    21 December 2017 13: 24
                    Mortars for many years have been the main "heavy" weapons of partisans and special forces. They remain so until now. And they will remain so for the near future. For it is difficult to imagine special Nazis in the coming years moving in the jungle, taiga, swamps not on their two "; and on combat air-cushioned platforms and equipped with cannon-rocket weapons. Is this not an example that" today classic mortars are NOT useless ... "But, of course, it’s hard to disagree that the mortars were not affected by the general" crisis "towed artillery ... indeed, in in combat conditions, "more than once" situations may arise (and (!) situations arise. when a "very steep projectile flight path is required. So there are 2 options for solving the situation ...: 1. Towed art in" not fashion "; in" fashion "-Self-propelled guns ... so, let's take and make the" towed "mortars self-propelled (!) ... 2. Can't howitzers provide a" cool trajectory "? Create a howitzer that can provide ... eventually mortar howitzers appeared (so they are referred to in the articles) "Nona", PLL-05, CARDOM, AMOS and others ... in fact, mortars, although they are also called abroad. But, about, "lawsuit be another way "... at once and not say ... And whether it is necessary to look for" solution ",, ,, at depth; if it can be found on the surface? They tried to replace artillery with tactical missiles of the Republic of Kazakhstan, MLRS ... but the artillery remained "more alive than any other." Of course, and now there are attempts to replace mortars: AGS-57, for example, special "infantry" missile systems ... maybe that will come out .
                    1. 0
                      21 December 2017 14: 14
                      All that you have listed I just refer to the list of "not there looking for a solution to the problem."
                      1. 0
                        21 December 2017 14: 56
                        Well .... as they sometimes say: wait and see ... " wink
  6. +1
    1 September 2017 22: 06
    Presumably this is the next cut, than self-propelled mortars, Nona or Vienna, are bad, to modernize them under modern conditions and everything will be fine.
  7. 0
    3 September 2017 06: 21
    I saw a photo of the 7-mm MZ-2017 Highlander based on the Tiger-M in TV and TV 120-204, Why this?
  8. 0
    5 September 2017 14: 44
    yes what verbiage is that ??! there were few 'assigned' soldiers and officers in previous military conflicts? bullying is not an article.
  9. 0
    6 September 2017 09: 50
    gorse is a dyeing shrub of sem, legumes 50-150cm, it is used for dyeing tissues in yellow, in medicine, a diuretic, choleretic, laxative, etc., poisonous!
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. +1
    21 September 2017 13: 14
    Quote: glory1974
    Forcing us to fight with the same weapons as the enemy’s wrong. You need to have more, better, longer-range, etc.


    I totally agree. The concept of this "Gorse" is poor, because it will not allow to increase the functional versatility and tactical flexibility of weapons, and manual loading is generally nonsense in our time. What prevents the automatic gun and mortar from being combined in one barrel and installation? Only inertness of thinking. In the case of combining, there is no need to increase the caliber, which will lead to an increase in the dimensions and mass of the artillery installation and a decrease in the internal volume for the deployment of ammunition, and a decrease in the vertical firing sector. One of the results of this combination is the ability to fire in a “flurry of fire” mode due to the destruction of a single target by a series of shells fired along different trajectories with a change from shot to shot throwing angles, starting from the most mounted and ending with the laying, which are mated in various ways, at the same time, all shells of the line fly to the target almost simultaneously, which guarantees an extremely high probability of its destruction. There are other "nishtyaki" from such a decision.
    But ... for this we need the most “small thing” - to develop an artillery system under a fundamentally new cartridge - both of these are in the form of an idea, however, the Drok itself is still a Sketch.
    1. 0
      20 December 2017 10: 36
      I completely agree.
      Quote: Vovanya
      to develop an artillery system under a fundamentally new cartridge - both are available as ideas,

      the question is how do you imagine this? what caliber? rifle \ smoothbore \ something your own? what shells? etc.
      I'm just curious how my and your thoughts are similar in appearance to this weapon.
      1. 0
        20 December 2017 12: 35
        Quote: ProkletyiPirat
        I'm just curious how my and your thoughts are similar in appearance to this weapon.

        The artillery complex is still at the stage of completion of the development of the concept. I can say that it is being developed for a special telescopic ammunition. The schematic technical solution of the gun (without special reference to the caliber) and ammunition of various types has already been formed. The advantages include a short breech section and a reduced combat compartment of the gun, the ability to change the muzzle velocity in the direction of increasing or decreasing, the ability to fire with automatic selection of ammunition with shells of various types in one turn and along a different trajectory, and much more.
        1. 0
          20 December 2017 14: 08
          Quote: Vovanya
          The artillery complex is still at the stage of completion of the development of the concept.

          I clarify, do you plan to make only a concept? or together with the project? or along with technical documentation? or test sample?
          Do you do this for yourself or is it work?
          Quote: Vovanya
          under special telescopic ammunition

          Hmm, and here is the difference in my version, there is a separate loading for using more projectile flight paths.
          And how do you plan to regulate the transmitted momentum to the projectile? controlled release of excess powder gases? (After all, the telescope has a constant attachment of MVV!).
          And how do you plan to stabilize the projectile flight path? (in the sense of cutting the barrel? smoothbore? something different?)