Moscow's ultimatum could disrupt the largest arms deal between China and Russia

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Russia and China may soon conclude the largest in the last ten years weapons The contract, according to which Beijing will receive 48 multi-functional Su-35 fighters, the total cost of which, according to some sources, is $ 4 billion.



This information appeared at the moment when reports began to arrive that this year for the first time in the whole history China's army budget will exceed one hundred billion dollars. Already this week, military spending, which will be 670 billion yuan (106,4 billion dollars), must be approved by the NPC (National People’s Congress), which is the highest body of state power. The defense budget in 2012 exceeded last year’s budget by 11,2%.

Moscow and Beijing have practically agreed on the quantity of products for delivery: China intends to purchase X-NUMX Su-48 fighters. It is planned that each plane will cost 35 millions of dollars to the Chinese authorities, but it is possible that this price will change during the negotiations.

The contract will be the largest deal in the history of military-technical cooperation between Russia and China in recent years. There has been a steady decline in the PRC's share in Russian arms exports, and since 2003 there have been no substantial arms contracts between Beijing and Moscow.

At the same time, the parties cannot find a compromise on one important issue, despite the fact that the Russian Federation and the PRC express mutual readiness to conclude an agreement. The fact is that Moscow, in order to protect itself from a possible competitor that may appear in the markets of other countries, requires Beijing to issue legal guarantees related to its refusal to copy Russian fighters.

Despite the fact that the parties concluded an agreement on the protection of intellectual property in the field of military-technical cooperation, Russia still insists on concluding an additional agreement. Meanwhile, China is not in a hurry to give such guarantees.

Moscow's ultimatum could disrupt the largest arms deal between China and Russia


Russia's perseverance is associated with unpleasant incidents that occurred in previous years. So, the Chinese-made fighter J-10 is a copy of the Su-27. An analogue of the Russian-made Su-33 aircraft is the J-15: it was copied by the Chinese from the T10K sample, which came to them from Ukraine. More recently, the Chinese aircraft factory located in Shenyang, the designers have created a Chinese copy of the Su-30MK2 fighter - the J-16 fighter.

Representatives of the Russian government recalled that there was already competition in the markets of third countries between Russian originals and Chinese copies. So, in 2009, the Russian MiG-29 and the Chinese FC-1 competed in the Myanmar market, and a year later - in the Egyptian market. At the same time, the Chinese car, despite its technical performance gap from the original Russian production, was in great demand among buyers due to its dignity alone - its favorable price - 10 million dollars against 35 million (this is the value of the Russian fighter).

Many experts believe that China will try to do everything to circumvent Russia's demand to give all the necessary legal guarantees that it will not copy aircraft. This is due to the fact that one of the main reasons why Beijing is entering into such a contract for the supply of fighters is precisely the possibility of access to the latest Russian weapons technology.

The Chinese military leadership has shown interest in the Su-35 fighter from 2008 onwards. In 2010, from unofficial sources, it became known that China intends to acquire Russian fighters, however, official confirmation of this appeared only last month.

Su-35 is a generation fighter 4 ++, having a long range. The machine is capable of reaching a maximum speed of up to 2,5 thousands of kilometers per hour, its range can reach 3,4 thousands of kilometers. The fighter is equipped with a 30-millimeter cannon, has 12 suspension points, intended for mounted weapons, as well as bombs and missiles.

On the eve of China, said that the budget in the field of defense of the country this year will increase by 11,2% and will be 106,4 billion dollars. This was announced at the opening of the annual session of the NPC by his representative, Li Zhaoxing. According to the Chinese authorities, the main task is to provide the Chinese army with weapons for victories in local wars, and not to establish military leadership in the region.

Despite the fact that the growth rate of the Chinese economy declined, Beijing does not cease to increase defense spending. Over the past twenty years, China’s military budget has grown by 13% per year.

Recently, China has been actively strengthening fleet and air force. So, in 2011, China began to experience the first Chinese aircraft carrier, and in the summer it was reported that this country made a technological breakthrough, creating a fifth-generation fighter.

According to experts, in reality, the budget of China is more than stated and amounts to 160 billion dollars. The fact is that in the budget of the Ministry of Defense there are no expenses for the purchase of foreign equipment, as well as for some military R & D. Despite the fact that China is making titanic efforts to increase its military power, in terms of defense spending, it is still noticeably inferior to the United States of America, whose budget is 613,9 billion dollars.

Although the Chinese authorities claim that the increase in defense spending will not lead to the militarization of foreign policy, many, especially neighbors, are alarmed by China’s position on this issue.

Based on materials from online publications
113 comments
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  1. Dimitrxnumx
    +36
    7 March 2012 09: 08
    We need to think three times before selling the Su-35 to the Chinese. Of course, they will disassemble everything to the cogs and assemble their clone, even if it will be inferior to the original and the engines will not "pull", but still it will be a "breakthrough" plane for them ... I hope ours thought three times before taking this step and " critical leaks "will not happen.
    1. itr
      +15
      7 March 2012 10: 11
      I think these planes of Russia will not hurt the same
      1. +4
        7 March 2012 10: 56
        I think that such a guarantee can be a strict prescription in the contract that when selling a copy, China pays Russia an amount equal to the amount of profit not received by Russia (lost profit). This amount will be more than the cost of the Chinese copy, so it will be unprofitable for China to copy because it will not be able to sell, because it will have to pay more than the amount that China will receive for the copy.
        1. fktrctqxbr
          0
          9 March 2012 03: 06
          As the Americans say
          bully bully bully $$$ business and nothing personal $$$ bully bully bully
      2. 0
        8 March 2012 10: 08
        We do not need them, but third countries may be.
    2. +8
      7 March 2012 10: 54
      The thing is that Moscow, wanting to protect itself from a possible competitor that may appear on the markets of other countries, requires Beijing to issue legal guarantees related to its refusal to copy Russian fighters


      even if they give ... they do not care, the right is strong because, as with the demarcation of the border.
      1. armiinet
        +9
        7 March 2012 19: 45
        That's right, you can’t believe the Chinese, there have already been precedents.
    3. -10
      7 March 2012 11: 16
      nobody will think !!!!! such a contract does not lie on the road
    4. wk
      -6
      7 March 2012 14: 55
      Dimitrxnumx,
      Quote: Dimitr77
      You need to think three times before selling the su-35 to the Chinese. Of course they’ll take apart all the cogs and collect their clone,

      and there’s nothing to think about - 48 planes need to be sold - a big lot, but to create a clone they can still buy a couple of copies through third countries, and Russia will be left without a contract, and China and the clone - you really have to look at things!
    5. +3
      7 March 2012 16: 31
      In the case of the purchase of 48 Su-35s on the conditions of the Russian side, China, of course, is unlikely to resist the temptation to disassemble several planes and try to learn something from the Russian development. However, the Chinese, most likely, will not succeed in completely copying the plane.

      The fact is that the great help to China in cloning Russian and Soviet aircraft was the availability of production lines supplied by the USSR, as well as drawings and manuals for the assembly, disassembly and other maintenance of aircraft. As a result, the Chinese learned to reproduce in detail all the elements of copied aircraft. However, a significant drawback of Chinese copies is the low quality of materials and the short overhaul life of the main components. As for the copied aircraft engines, they are completely inferior to the originals in performance.
      Su-35, judging by the information provided in the media, China will only be able to receive it in assembled form. In addition, given the rhetoric of the Russian side, Beijing is unlikely to be explained how to dismantle or repair aircraft. For this, Russia may well provide its service and technical centers and domestic specialists
      1. Focuser
        +2
        7 March 2012 23: 10
        You remind me of something of these same Chinese ..)) They copied someone else's text one to one and by default gave it away as their ..))

        http://lenta.ru/articles/2012/03/07/su35/
      2. Nbus
        0
        8 March 2012 15: 37
        You can sell because soon the t-50 will arrive in time.
        The main thing is that they do not fly towards Moscow.
    6. Tram boom
      -25
      7 March 2012 21: 07
      The 4 ++ generation aircraft Su-35 was developed on the basis of the Su-27 aircraft, developed by 70's and, in principle, is the same machine, some changes have radically changed nothing.
      Aircraft generation 4 ++ Maybe better 4- -? Junk for a new car is given and endlessly credited with pluses laughing
      1. +6
        8 March 2012 00: 03
        Quote: Tram boor
        The 4 ++ generation aircraft Su-35 was developed on the basis of the Su-27 aircraft, developed by 70's and, in principle, is the same machine, some changes have radically changed nothing.

        Eghkm :))) Tell me, but to read at least something about this and to understand what is the difference between Su-35 and Su-27 - religion does not allow?
    7. VAF
      VAF
      +8
      7 March 2012 21: 57
      quote = Dimitr77] Of course, they will take apart all the cogs and collect their clone, [/ quote]

      Something is not clear that our rulers and Rosoboronexport would gain "experience and intelligence" in terms of supplying arms to China!
      Everything the Chinese have. solid clones "from our technique.
      I agree, in many ways inferior to the originals, but:
      1. There are a lot of them and the pace of production has not been adjusted to ours (yet!)
      2. The cost of the clones is much lower than the original and with the technical support the Chinese have no problems, and this entails squeezing us out of the markets !!
      I hope no one will dispute that "DUMPING" is the most effective means of "destroying" competitors?
      3. Thank God that they did not give the Su-33, but there is infa that there was only one Su-33 left in Saki and Ukraine is ready to give it away, then you yourself understand that the problem with the decks in China will be solved, but with the air finishers this is a question technique and time!
      A 4.100% prepayment for such contracts is never done, which prevents the Chinese from getting a couple of 35s and breaking the contract unilaterally, referring to (you can think of anything you want!).
      Therefore, I am also against the fact that there would now be these deliveries, saturate our market completely, i.e. provide the necessary number of your Air Force, and then sell it!
      [
      1. -6
        7 March 2012 23: 59
        there was only one Su-33 and Ukraine is ready to give it
        __________________________
        AU WAKE IT ALREADY GIVEN IN 2005 AND CHINA MAKES ITS J-15 EXCELLENT SU-33
        1. VAF
          VAF
          +3
          8 March 2012 10: 30
          Quote: Rustam
          AU WAKE IT ALREADY GIVEN IN 2005 AND CHINA MAKES ITS J-15 EXCELLENT SU-33

          As far as I know, Ukraine sold 2 Su-27s from an air defense regiment in the city of Mirgorod, it seems 840 IAP, but I have not honestly heard what 33 have already given up.
          But what about the superiority of the "Chinese clone" over our 33rd is you, dear, in vain !!!
          1. -2
            8 March 2012 12: 24
            over our 33rd it is you, dear, in vain !!!
            __________________________
            have you ever seen su-33 a !!!!!!!!! I remind you that in 92-95, 26 units were delivered to the Navy, only 10 left in the ranks !!!!
            Inside an old radar and dial indicators - gun armament
            work only on air targets and dropping free-falling bombs

            Chinese model with a new breo as on the su-30mk2 and the possibility of using the whole armament range land air and water

            that's why our ordered 24 latest Mig-29k and a cube that is really ultra-modern
            And the remaining 10 su-33s will be written off by 2015 - and the history of this aircraft will end forever
            1. VAF
              VAF
              +2
              8 March 2012 13: 24
              Quote: Rustam
              have you ever seen su-33 a !!!!!!!!!

              I answered and saw many times. I was acquainted with Timur Avtandilovich (blessed memory! Great man in every sense) was when we were in Saki and when we moved to Severomorsk.

              Quote: Rustam
              Inside the old radar and dial indicators - the armament of the gun works only on air targets and the dropping of free-falling bombs

              The armament of the aircraft is divided into small arms and missile:
              1. Rifle-cannon armament is represented by a built-in automatic quick-firing single-barrel gun of caliber 30 mm, type GSH-301, mounted in the influx of the right half of the wing, with an ammunition load of 150 rounds.
              2. Missile weapons are placed on aircraft launchers (APU) and aircraft ejection devices (ACU), suspended on suspended at 12 points: 6 - under the wing consoles, 2 - under the wing tips, 2 - under the engine nacelles and 2 - under the center section between engine nacelles (tandem).

              The aircraft can carry up to 8 medium-range air-to-air missiles of the R-27 type with semi-active radar (R-27R) or thermal (R-27T) homing heads, as well as their modifications with an increased flight range (R-27ER , R-27ET) and up to 6 guided missiles of short-range maneuverable combat with thermal homing heads of the R-73 type.
              A typical armament of an aircraft consists of 8 R-27E missiles and 4 R-73 missiles.
              The possibility of using a heavy guided anti-ship missile "Mosquito" (ASM-MSS) on a catapult device under the fuselage between the engine nacelles has been worked out.
              The maximum mass of the combat load of the aircraft is 6500 kg.
              As a result of the modernization (“ideologically” close modernization of the Su-27 family aircraft), the ship fighter received a new multifunctional pulse-Doppler radar station (the Fazotron-NIIR corporation proposed for installation on the Su-33 radar stations with a Zhuk-M phased array or "Falcon").
              The new information and control field of the cabin is made using large-format multi-function color screen indicators on liquid crystals.
              The fighter’s armament is complemented by a new generation of air-to-air missiles R-77 (RVV-AE), air-to-surface missiles with television and laser guidance, tactical anti-ship (X-31A) and anti-radar (X-31P) missiles, Adjustable and controlled bombs, as well as other promising weapons.
              In the future, the anti-ship potential of the Su-33 can significantly increase due to the equipment of its promising anti-ship tactical missile "Onyx". Each aircraft can carry three such missiles, capable of hitting surface targets of any type at a distance of more than 300 km.

              Get what you say and sign it!
              And for clarity, "photo for memory"!
              X-41 "Mosquito"
              1. -5
                8 March 2012 15: 46
                result of modernization
                ______________
                YOU READ OR DONATE OR DALDONITE
                as a result of which modernization ???? I’m telling you that the su-33 NOW HOW HE HAS EXITED FROM THE FACTORY SUCH IT AND REMAINED !!!!!!!!!!
                do you understand me or do we speak different languages ​​??? ME ALWAYS AMAZING !! WE DO NOT WANT TO LISTEN, AND DELIVER THE MINUS

                all remaining 10 aircraft will be decommissioned in 2015

                new aircraft MIG-29K, KUB
  2. PabloMsk
    -27
    7 March 2012 09: 09
    This article is a compilation of yesterday's material from the newspaper "Kommersant" No. 40 (4825), 06.03.2012

    I’ll ask the lawyers of the publishing house about the eligibility of this publication without specifying a link to the source.
    1. -11
      7 March 2012 09: 26
      Have you noticed this only for the first time?
      1. PabloMsk
        -19
        7 March 2012 10: 37
        Aha :)
        It's just that my morning begins with the Kommersant newspaper and so on ... and then I look through Voennoye Obozreniye.
    2. +17
      7 March 2012 09: 33
      And also from To Pravda.Ru,, Moscow Komsomol, BBC News, Lenta.ru and more 33 different editions ... https://news.google.ru
    3. 0
      7 March 2012 13: 17
      FUCK JUSTICE - THE SCIENCE OF BURNING FROM HERE
    4. +1
      7 March 2012 23: 29
      Comrade, the local people here do not write or read newspapers. Neither yours, nor even Soviet ones for the night! fool
  3. Gur
    +10
    7 March 2012 09: 49
    It seems to me that China can promise anything, and copy all one, and hell is not his brother. And there are even fears that the contract will not be brought to the end. Get the first batch of them will be enough and go to the copy machine.
    1. +2
      7 March 2012 13: 36
      there are similar doubts
    2. +3
      7 March 2012 22: 17
      Then China will not receive anything new at all, the suspension could already come and the ban.
  4. bagira
    +2
    7 March 2012 09: 50
    Quote: PabloMsk
    This article is a compilation of yesterday's material from the newspaper "Kommersant" No. 40 (4825), 06.03.2012

    I’ll ask the lawyers of the publishing house about the eligibility of this publication without specifying a link to the source.


    Just ask first, where did the Kommersant newspaper come from with military-related material, where did they rip it off?
    1. PabloMsk
      -21
      7 March 2012 10: 39
      There are a lot of professional journalists working for the Kommersant newspaper, each of whom is an expert in the field he writes about.

      And I do not need to be interested in this - I work in this newspaper :)
      1. snek
        +11
        7 March 2012 13: 23
        Quote: PabloMsk
        This article is a compilation of yesterday's material from the newspaper "Kommersant" No. 40 (4825), 06.03.2012

        As I understand it, we are talking about the material "Su-35 is being protected from Chinese counterfeiting"
        http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/1887462
        Quote: PabloMsk
        The Kommersant newspaper employs a lot of professional journalists, each of whom is an expert in the field
        about which he writes.

        And often, these experts make several gross factual errors in one sentence, such as in
        this: "the Chinese J-10 fighter is, in fact, a copy of the Russian Su-27, the J-11 is an analogue of the Su-30, and the FC-1
        repeats the MiG-29 fighter "- taken from the Kommersat website.
        j 10 borrowed something from the prototype moment 1.44 and has nothing to do with su planes. And fc-1 so "repeats"
        moment 29 that they simply cannot be distinguished:

        1. +5
          7 March 2012 17: 56
          Also drew attention to this. Yeah, the professionals are still)))
          1. 0
            8 March 2012 10: 11
            China, as a mirror of the market, what is required is what produces.
        2. postman
          +1
          7 March 2012 21: 23
          snek, Standings and +
        3. 0
          7 March 2012 22: 30
          On the top photo, soon Mirage ............................... f-1 or similar ...
          1. snek
            0
            8 March 2012 01: 14
            this is Pakistani FC-1, as if in a search engine it’s not difficult to find this plane and how it looks
  5. +6
    7 March 2012 09: 50
    This is not an ultimatum, but a normal sane position! They wouldn’t steal other people's ideas and there would be no questions!
  6. 0
    7 March 2012 10: 02
    Yes, the Chinese people for their fakes - 20 years, they should not sell anything from a weapon, so they have already grown it, and why were they allowed to create nuclear weapons! ???

    and I don’t understand: Chinese FC-1 replicates fighter Mig-29




    and what does he look like! ??? Well, on the F-16, SAAB Grippen - it looks like something, but on the MIG-29! ???? request
  7. +5
    7 March 2012 10: 09
    Chu - I did not understand - why are they going to buy Mig35? But what about their ultra-modern J-20? It’s clear that the matter is dark - it smacks of another Chinese window dress ...
    The fact is that a modern aircraft is primarily modern materials and technologies - and buying technology is expensive - so they again want to make a copy that looks similar, but essentially like all the Chinese junk. And for example, it is impossible to copy the chemical composition of alloys (this is the result of many years of scientific research) - in general, the Chinese are Chinese in everything :)))
    1. snek
      0
      7 March 2012 14: 16
      Quote: Selevc
      Why are they going to buy Mig35? But what about their ultra-modern J-20?

      firstly, su-35, and secondly, we are also going to buy it, despite the t-50
  8. Focuser
    +3
    7 March 2012 10: 22
    Oh, do not sell the Su-35 to China! .. You will regret more than once ..

    Chinese engineers have risen a lot lately.
    Sell ​​them a Su-35 now and believe me, tomorrow they will make the plane better than yours ..
    1. beard999
      +3
      7 March 2012 16: 32
      Quote: Focker
      Chinese engineers have risen a lot lately.

      Do not worry. Firstly, no one offers China a Su-35S aircraft intended for the Russian Air Force. If we sell, then the export modification of the Su-35, with the export avionics (for example, with the same radar "Irbis-E", tailored specifically for the export of Su-35). Secondly, in any case, the main prospects for the development of the Russian Air Force are associated with the PAK FA. Su-35S, with all its advantages, is still an intermediate aircraft between generations. Thirdly, with all the Chinese copying abilities, which are not particularly outstanding in the field of aircraft manufacturing, China has not yet created. And with aircraft engines they generally have huge problems http://army-news.ru/2011/01/kitajskij-j-20/.
  9. Skiff
    +1
    7 March 2012 10: 31
    Recently, China is actively engaged in strengthening the fleet and the Air Force. So, in 2011, China began to experience the first Chinese aircraft carrier, and in the summer there were reports that this country had made a technological breakthrough, creating a fifth-generation fighter.

    The only country that created and adopted the 5th generation fighter is the United States, so far the only ones that are created and are tested.
    1. 0
      8 March 2012 01: 29
      Quote: Skiff
      The only country that created and adopted the 5th generation fighter is the United States, so far the only ones that are created and are tested.

      A lot of questions about this plane.
  10. vostok
    +3
    7 March 2012 10: 34
    Su-35 is one of the most modern aircraft, vryatli in the next 10 years, China will be able to copy it, the mind is not enough. Anyway, all that the Chinese are copying all the shit.
    1. PabloMsk
      +21
      7 March 2012 10: 46
      Su-35 is one of the most modern aircraft, vryatli in the next 10 years, China will be able to copy it, the mind is not enough. Anyway, all that the Chinese are copying all the shit.

      I will answer point by point.

      1. They will copy the aircraft during the year if there are a sufficient number of samples.
      2. They have enough intelligence - they are the strongest professionals in copying.
      3. Everything that the Chinese copy is in demand.

      And item number 3 is the most dangerous ....
      Copying someone else’s product - these bastards deliberately dump and destroy the existing market for manufacturers with a good reputation.
      This is one of the most powerful competition tools in the market.
      1. +4
        7 March 2012 11: 09
        Of course, the glider will be copied, but many components and assemblies will not be able to; not always looking at the part and analyzing the material is enough to understand how to produce it.
      2. Skiff
        +6
        7 March 2012 11: 12
        Blunt copying does not create a quality product, there is such a thing as "Manufacturing technology" and there are many examples that the Chinese, after copying, bought our equipment.
        A simple example is an aircraft scapula, production technology is not copied, you can visually blind from gov .... and candy, only repeating the word halva in your mouth will not become sweeter.
        1. +3
          7 March 2012 12: 14
          Quote: Skiff
          A simple example is an aircraft scapula, production technology is not copied, you can visually blind from gov .... and candy, only repeating the word halva in your mouth will not become sweeter.

          100% hit. Therefore, the resource is 40-60 hours against the Russian 4000 hours
    2. Focuser
      +2
      7 March 2012 10: 49
      Recently, China does not aim to create copies of Russian or any other equipment as it was before. Now they want to create their own technology, which in its qualities will not be inferior to the best Western and Russian models. And their J-20 demonstrates this change well ..
      1. +1
        7 March 2012 11: 21
        J-20 can be called created by the Chinese with a big stretch.
        Our engines, glider very similar to Mig 1.44, western electronics.
        Conclusion: the Chinese, the Chinese do not change.
        1. Focuser
          +5
          7 March 2012 11: 52
          The Chinese are just changing and very fast ..
          According to the J-20, we can say that this is a transitional model. They move away from full copying to creating self-developed technology ..
          In general, it is surprising that the Russians think about whether or not to sell their most modern aircraft to the Chinese. This is despite the fact that they themselves are not yet in service and despite the fact that, having tied up with a contract with China, the Su-35 will enter the Russian troops even slower. But the most important thing is that by selling the Su-35 at a given moment of time, they are stimulating China not to catch up with itself, but already to overtake! .. The Russian leadership cannot but understand that China does not stand still and that the Chinese spat at mountains to all these non-copy arrangements. Why are Americans F-22 not selling to anyone, and Russia is thinking of selling its most advanced aircraft not to anyone, but to CHINA ?? ..
          1. +7
            7 March 2012 12: 07
            I'm afraid F-22 has a slightly different reason for not putting up for sale.
            They are afraid of exposing farce about the super-powerful fighter of conquering air supremacy, so successfully advertised by them wherever possible.
            1. Focuser
              +3
              7 March 2012 12: 28
              Maybe .. Just like F-35))
              But still the F-22 is a tidbit. No wonder the Chinese hackers leaked several terabytes! data on the F-22 from the Pentagon’s servers .. For example, I’m sure that their J-20 flashlight is more the result of the work of their hackers than their own scientific achievements ..
              1. +2
                7 March 2012 12: 34
                It is possible, although there are no supersonic flights so far, it’s too early to talk about their flashlight, otherwise it will turn out like an 2 hour resource with engines, and then it's matte;)))
          2. rate 60
            +3
            7 March 2012 18: 46
            I think this is a crime to sell advanced weapons to my potential adversary. For officials, money is more important than the country's security. In the event of a conflict, they have somewhere to run and they don’t give a damn about Russia.
  11. 0
    7 March 2012 10: 37
    QUESTION TO THE ADMINISTRATOR - AND REMOVE THE COMMENT WITHOUT MATS AND EXPLETIVES - THIS IS NORMAL! ??? OR WHAT IS NOT SO IN IT - SAME AS THE FREEDOM OF WORDS! ?????? request OR THE CHINESE A LITTLE ANOTHER CALL - IT'S NOW "NOT POLITICAL CORRECT! ???" REALLY THE CENSORSHIP GOES THIS! ???? CAN YOU SHOW THE "SAMPLE" COMMENTARY! ??? winked
    1. 0
      7 March 2012 10: 52
      The incitement of ethnic hatred is prohibited, as well as the distortion of the names of countries and nations.
  12. Volka
    0
    7 March 2012 10: 39
    Better the Chinese do not create one, but cheaper exactly, like all Chinese shit We must take them an advance payment of 100% for the whole batch, and hard guarantees that there will be no copies!
  13. jar0512rus
    +5
    7 March 2012 11: 17
    It is impossible, in principle, to sell modern weapons to China !!!! even if they agree to the terms !!! All nonsense, they are like a copy machine !!! Even if the copies are worse, but they will take in quantity !!! And do not forget that China is seriously increasing in recent years! And do not think that they spend such money on weapons only in order to fight with Taiwan or Vietnam, and it is difficult for them to get to India, and it is not worth it to climb through the mountains !!! All that we will now sell to China and come back to us, especially since there is no secret that they will deploy their best samples on the territories bordering Russia !!! Now Su-35, then pak-fa !!! After the good news from Syria, this one puzzles me recourse !!!
    1. 0
      7 March 2012 16: 26
      It is impossible, in principle, to sell modern weapons to China !!!! even if they agree to the terms
      ____________________
      hear the wise guy !!! if it were not for CHINESE ORDERS WHICH STARTED SINCE 1992
      I remind
      100-su-27 28-su-27ub (irkut)
      100-su-30mkk
      24-su-30mk2 (entered the Chinese navy)

      then the FACTORY in the city of KOMSOMOLSK on AMUR was not alive and it would just be exhausted so that thanks to China, the plant survived in the 90s and early 2000s, developed, kept working hands and production line !!!!!

      yes there is a danger of copying, but 48 cars are at least 4 years of work, salary and development of the enterprise !!! sorry the same french sold us a mistral with their zenith-9 system and it saved the shipyard in saint nazer from bankruptcy
      1. jar0512rus
        +6
        7 March 2012 16: 56
        Hear the shopkeeper !!!! I'm not talking about the economic component !!! And if you talk about it, then more than one contract with China has not been fully implemented !!! They bought a part of the contract and then abandoned the rest under various pretexts! By the way, some of these aircraft were transferred to the Russian Air Force !!! And where did you get the wise guy! !!! Only in 1995, Russia managed to turn the tide and for the first time after several years of decline, increased the export of aviation weapons. Prior to this, it was limited to the supply to China of about 30 Su-27 fighters as part of fulfilling obligations under contracts concluded in the Soviet period. These aircraft were produced by the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Production Association named after Yu.A. Gagarin (KnAAPO) and the Irkutsk Aviation Plant. FOR REFERENCE, READ WHAT THE PLANTS SURVIVED IN THE 90'S !!! http: //ru-90.ru/old/index.php? option = com_content & view = article & id = 1867 !!!!!!
        1. -2
          7 March 2012 17: 04
          And where are you smart guy got these numbers
          ______________
          from there ignorant city of Komsomolsk-on-Amur
          ignoramus for you I wrote 28 su-27ub !!!!!!!!!!! (Irkutsk)

          Yes, except for 26 su-33s, no aircraft were delivered to the Russian army in the 90th !!!!!!!!!!

          ___________________________________
          And if you talk about it, then more than one contract with China has not been fully implemented !!!
          __________________________
          FACT Bring ME A (EXCEPT REFUSAL FROM PURCHASES OF 100 SU-27 MACHINE SETS, NO FAILURES)
          Yes, I forgot to remind thanks to Chinese money appeared su-30mkk and MK2 -if that
          thanks to Indian money, the su-30k and su-30mki appeared


          ____________________________
          only in 1995 did Russia manage to turn the tide and for the first time after several years of recession increase aviation exports
          ________________________________________________________

          where are the weapons and to whom ??? besides China and India, nobody bought anything (and 18 mig-29 malaysia in 95 and 10 su-27 to Vietnam in 97)
          1. jar0512rus
            0
            7 March 2012 17: 16
            We are talking about China, not about India !!! Did you even read the link? And you yourself just brought one of the facts !!! And I'm sorry, I’ll recover. None of the major contracts has been completed !!! Only small batches of several pieces were made, just for copying !!! And really liked your answer
            "" from there ignorant city of Komsomolsk on Cupid
            for you ignoramus, I wrote 28 su-27ub !!!!!!!!!!! (Irkut) "" is that a link or something like that or are you from illiteracy? And I'm not telling you how much was supplied to the Russian army in the 90s, WE SPEAK ABOUT CHINA !!!

            I’m publishing it for you !!! In the mid-1990s, export of aircraft intensified, several major transactions were concluded. In particular, in 1994-1995, 28 Mig-29 fighters were delivered to Hungary, and in 1995, 18 such aircraft to Malaysia (the first delivery of combat aircraft to this country). At that time, the first post-Soviet contracts were concluded to continue deliveries of Su-27 fighters to China. Moreover, one of them, concluded in 1996, provided for the supply of not ready-made aircraft, but car kits for their subsequent licensed assembly in China. Deliveries began in 1998 and continued until 2003.
            In 1996, a truly breakthrough long-term contract was signed with India for the supply of 90 Su-30MKI aircraft (deep modernization of the combat training Su-27UB) and another 140 car kits for licensed assembly of this machine at the facilities of the Indian aircraft manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). The “motor” of the transaction was the first private Russian aircraft manufacturing corporation, Irkut, established on the basis of the Irkutsk Aviation Plant, the manufacturer of the two-seat combat training modification Su-27. For the first time in the domestic system of military-technical cooperation, the contract provided for the installation of Israeli and Western European elements of airborne equipment on Russian combat aircraft at the request of the customer. Later, on the basis of the machine for India, modifications were created for Malaysia (Su-30MKM) and Algeria (Su-30MKA) [11].
            1. -2
              7 March 2012 17: 33
              And I WHAT ABOUT I WRITTEN ABOUT READING WE CAN OR OR NO - I don’t need to tell the ABC, I know it, my relatives and relatives are all in our VPK for 40 years
              28 su-27 ub DELIVERED TO CHINA - I am writing large that as soon as the su-27 sparks were made in Irkutsk - you need to be so illiterate - read it several times, personalize and then write

              I REPEAT - THE FACT Bring ME A (EXCEPT FOR REFUSAL FROM PURCHASES OF 100 SU-27 MACHINE KITS, THERE WAS NO FAILURES)
              Yes, I forgot to remind thanks to Chinese money appeared su-30mkk and MK2 -if that
              thanks to Indian money, the su-30k and su-30mki appeared
              where are the weapons and to whom ??? besides China and India, nobody bought anything (and 18 mig-29 malaysia in 95 and 10 su-27 to Vietnam in 97)
              to the same Hungarians were transferred 29 who stood at the factory in assembled form and which were abandoned by the 91 USSR and the new Russian army were transferred to pay off debt, 560 btr-80a were also delivered to pay off the debt. THIS IS SO FOR YOUR OVERALL DEVELOPMENT
              1. jar0512rus
                +1
                7 March 2012 17: 45
                China abandoned plans for the purchase of a dozen Il-76 planes, and a deal to deliver twenty-five Tu-204-120 planes to the PRC was practically disrupted !!! http://www.techbusiness.ru/news/?id=1765&lang=en !!! 2)) in 2009, the Kanwa Defense Review published information about the disruption of the deal between Russia and China, according to which Beijing was supposed to acquire carrier-based Su-33 fighters from the Russian Federation. Negotiations on the sale of aircraft were conducted for a long time, but the parties preferred not to disclose their details because of the unwritten agreement that exists between the states. Initially, China intended to order a batch of 50 fighters, having previously bought two “test” samples. Then it was already about 14 cars. But in the end, according to the Chinese side, the deal did not take place. In Russia, they still prefer not to officially comment on this fact. Http: //vlasti.net/news/39576? Print = 1 !!! Hold on a couple of facts specialist in the military-industrial complex !!!!!
                1. 0
                  7 March 2012 17: 54
                  WRITING THE LAST POST FOR YOU SIR !!! So that you at least know something
                  in order
                  1-China abandoned plans to purchase a dozen IL-76 aircraft,
                  __ ____ -__ _____
                  China did not refuse, but signed a delivery contract with Rosoboronexport IL-76 and IL-78, only Rosoboronexport did not agree with the Tashkent plant producing sludge at a price and canceled the transaction (having paid the penalty to China)

                  2- was to acquire from the Russian Federation carrier-based Su-33 fighters.
                  ___ ____ ____ ____
                  China wanted a small party, we refused, the contract was not signed ??? why talk about it at all !!!! where the failure-agreement was not

                  3-virtually failed the deal on the supply of twenty-five Tu-204-120 aircraft to the PRC
                  ___ ____ ___
                  I'll die of laughter - who needs this brick
                  China bought a production line from AERBAS and now produces under license A-320

                  Mustache
              2. jar0512rus
                +2
                7 March 2012 17: 56
                AND YOU BECOME TO ME AT LEAST ONE FACT !!! And then I'm trying to convey something to you in the subject, but you’re somehow stuck in place !!! So far, I see from you only about 28 Su-27s about which we already know about sparks !!! And do not tell me about my illiteracy, better follow your literacy and spelling !!!
          2. GRU Special Forces
            +2
            8 March 2012 01: 08
            A YOU Kentik hour not yellow-faced friend forever? otherwise you are pushing the Chinese industrial zone so vehemently. you are probably one of the Kuomintang 100%
            1. -4
              8 March 2012 08: 52
              no buddy !!! I just know how and where it was !!!! and thanks to CHINA, the Komsomol plant was preserved and the Su-30mkk and MK2 planes were born, which made it possible to save personnel on the production line and subsequently create the SU-35 AND PAKFA

              like that Kentucky
              1. +1
                8 March 2012 19: 04
                I believe that the Chinese were not left at a loss, and judging by the latest events, they will soon be in a big plus from the deals of the 90s. I agree the factories survived and thanks to Chinese orders. But there is such an expression (take advantage of temporary weakness). To sell plastic flowers in Russia, to buy fighter-copy, and to sell to the whole world is a good charity.
      2. jar0512rus
        +2
        7 March 2012 17: 05
        Again, think about the damage to our defense industry that copying and selling copies that cost two orders of magnitude will bring !!! They may be worse, but they are cheaper and many countries are already tempted by Chinese aircraft, including those countries that purchased aircraft from us !!!
        1. +5
          7 March 2012 18: 42
          Guys, no need to quarrel!
          It is necessary to sell new equipment, it is a huge amount of money both for the country and for production itself. If you give your segment to the arms market, pushing back will be very problematic. Another thing is how to sell?
          Firstly, not the latest developments (Su-35 is not such).
          Secondly, not the most complete configurations, but simplified versions with reduced performance characteristics (as the Americans do).
          Thirdly, the contract stipulate even the smallest nuances (guaranteed prohibition of copying, penalties, prohibition of resale, etc.)
          Fourth, strictly (up to landing) ask the responsible for signing the contracts for their failures and negative consequences (let them study marketing and consult with counterintelligence).

          Well, we should not forget that now is 2012, and not the 90s, and the question of the survival of aviation industry enterprises at any cost is not so urgent. Orders appeared for their Air Force, there was a prospect (I really hope so).
          1. jar0512rus
            +1
            7 March 2012 18: 53
            North!!
            I agree WORLD !!! Your arguments are convincing !!! And really, oh, how I would like our specialists in charge of the military-industrial complex to finally implement treaties and contracts in that spirit !!! And finally, I am very glad that our aircraft industry has finally moved off the ground !!! We will carefully observe and hope that the news will be only the most positive !!!
        2. +1
          8 March 2012 10: 41
          Well, and "hot Finnish guys!" You still have a fight! What's the use of your screaming? No one on whom contracts depend reads them. And planes need to be sold, only wisely - this is the most important thing. Nord said everything about this. Otherwise, the Chinese will buy our sellers along with the derm and all the cases. By the way, after all, we buy Chinese cars, even if they are disposable, but we buy. Probably, not only in Russia there will always be those willing to buy "for a penny of dimes". In general, China will still show itself, and in any relationship, Russia cannot ignore this fact.
      3. +4
        7 March 2012 20: 28
        Thanks to China, nearly 90% of Russian light industry enterprises were destroyed. Which, in turn, could contribute to the plant in the city of Komsomolsk-on-Amur and for the other two, which are part of the P.O. Sukhoy corporation
  14. +1
    7 March 2012 11: 22
    I hope common sense is not overshadowed by money.
    1. 0
      7 March 2012 12: 21
      Here is a non-fact!

      In the case of our hucksters, everything can be sold ....

      This also worries me. Several weeks ago, the issue of the creation of the J-20 by China as opposed to the T-50 was already discussed, and many stated that "they" did not have avionics or engines and they could not catch up with us.
      Even then, I questioned this question. And, he said literally the following: - "... what they cannot copy, then ... they will steal or buy", business is not far off.

      So play solitaire .....

      And further! A weapon that does not fight is not a weapon. Why spend so much money on gathering dust on a shelf? (this applies to China).
      This is our "potential partner number 2", not the fact that he will stand aside in the event of a pie section!
    2. 0
      7 March 2012 12: 30
      Quote: MrFYGY

      I hope common sense is not overshadowed by money.

      It seems that the situation with the latest weapons will change, especially on the approach of a 20-ton engine for Sushki, and this is really SOMETHING
  15. vostok-47
    0
    7 March 2012 12: 19
    The Chinese will copy it anyway. You need to tell them: "Either they buy 200 fighters for $ 150 million, or let them create their own propeller corn plant (If anyone does not know, their fifth generation fighter was copied by the fuselage from the Russians and the Americans)
  16. Capt.stryker
    +3
    7 March 2012 13: 47
    Comments on the article.
    So, a Chinese-made fighter J-10 is a copy of a Russian-made Su-27,

    There is nothing common, except for the legally purchased AL-31F engine, between these aircraft.

    J-11-analog fighter Su-30
    And this is not true, J-11 is an analogue clone of the Su-27

    and the Chinese FC-1 copies the Mig-29 fighter.

    Stupid nonsense, as in the first case. These two aircraft have only the RD-33 engine in common, also incidentally acquired legally.
  17. dred
    -11
    7 March 2012 13: 53
    I hope Moscow will allow it to sell dryers. 4 billion on the road do not fall.
  18. +4
    7 March 2012 14: 27
    In the 60s of the 20th century, they also spoke about Japanese products - low-quality consumer goods, look what now. The same is possible with China, and already in 15-20 years, they make very large investments in education, which, taking into account their population, cannot but disturb. Therefore, hatred relations with China are unacceptable. You should think 1000 times, 100 times to prescribe legal guarantees and mechanisms for protecting your intellectual property.
    1. Michael 9999
      0
      8 March 2012 09: 01
      and now high-quality but consumer goods, and well, that Asians are not able to come up with something for everyone, they all have one problem: yes, it’s ad infinitum, but the Chinese invented gunpowder rockets for a long time how did the Europeans use weapons why? linear thinking. The design for cars is done by Italians engines Germans and Americans, well, about contracts they are not worth the paper on which they are written, for example, the Chinese sold clones of planes no matter whose country, for example, what? what are the leverage on country x? the real one that depends on the IMF, that China will not run for arms and only China will send everyone.
  19. 755962
    +2
    7 March 2012 15: 34
    From the beginning, saturate your market, in the sense for your own aircraft. And with China keep your ears open. Hit.
  20. -3
    7 March 2012 16: 26
    The statement of the question "sell - not sell" is stupid in essence. SELL everything that can be sold ... and build SIXTH generation machines.
  21. +4
    7 March 2012 16: 47
    It is completely unclear what guides the people who supported this article.
    That's right, and our. Do not sign.
    And anyway, who said that the Chinese will buy all the planes. They will spend the first tranche of pieces at 5 ... 10, receive them and send ours to ...
    First time or something.
  22. -10
    7 March 2012 17: 12
    Does anyone seriously suggest that there are "secrets" in these times?
    All the more so in God-saved Russia? Everything that is possible (and even more so it is NOT) has already been sold by the "small people" who are now hanging out at the "mink protests". If there is at least some chance of getting "cash" and supporting the trousers of the aviation industry, this should be done without hesitation. Moreover, "resting on its laurels" is fraught with lagging by definition. On the agenda is the VKS (aerospace plane), next to which all existing "flying machines" will look like an example from the House of Pioneers. Catching up with "plus signs" is kindergarten. You can't take it by the gills.
    1. 0
      8 March 2012 02: 54
      Dear my country is called Russia, and specifically for you, the Russian Federation and not otherwise!
      1. 0
        20 March 2012 23: 56
        With which I congratulate you. And my country is called the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. And no *** from the Belovezhskaya hangover can "cancel" it.
    2. 0
      21 March 2012 00: 32
      I saw that they gave me a "minor", apparently "exemplary" ... Of course I am glad that there are still enthusiasts of parachute-gliding sports in the country. I myself am like that, only taking into account the specifics of the military department of the Gorky Polytechnic, rather sailing and diving ... A conversation, as they say, "not about that ..." yourself and your opponent - you will win, you know only yourself or only your opponent - if you are a winner, another time you will be beaten, you do not know yourself or your opponent - you will always be beaten. ALL "catch-up" strategies are NOT WINNING by definition. DO NOT win on the opponent's field, playing by his rules, despite the fact that these rules are permanently and arbitrarily changed by him (the opponent).
  23. 6o6er
    -1
    7 March 2012 17: 45
    plotnikov561956,
    May I ask where the information about the new engine comes from? To him as to a 5th generation airplane ... very far
    And the Chinese copies have already overtaken their originals su-27 and su-33 ...
    1. 0
      7 March 2012 19: 24
      Quote: 6o6er
      May I ask where the information about the new engine comes from? Before him as before a plane of 5 generation.

      The new engine is created under the T-50. declared thrust on afterburner -20 tons. Now T-50s go with AL-41 thrust 15 tons. Old on the issue without labor near inf. about T-50
      And the Chinese copies have already overtaken their originals su-27 and su-33.
      Avionics overtook, engine for China sore foot. Serial T-50s will go with new engines
  24. coast
    +2
    7 March 2012 19: 06
    Chinese need to write su 27 on su 35 and sell it, let them copy
  25. 6o6er
    +1
    7 March 2012 19: 41
    plotnikov561956 AL-41 is a deep modernization 31. And the "new" engine does not exist yet, but what they want it to produce 20 tons. yes ... only so far it's all fairy tales ... And the Chinese also fly on the AL-31 at full speed and try to create their own, so it is not yet known who will have it sooner ... But there are no engines on the T-50 weapons not avionics ... a fence with a motor, it is still far from the series!
    1. +2
      7 March 2012 20: 19

      AL-41F1 engine of the first stage (product 117), engine of the second stage (Product 129)
      AL-41F1S installed. Su-35
  26. coast
    0
    7 March 2012 20: 45
    6o6er,
    And the t 50 already has a gun
  27. +2
    7 March 2012 21: 03
    If China buys fighter jets, and does not produce copies of them, then this means that it is speedily preparing for war. The narrow-eyed feel that they no longer have time.
    1. +4
      7 March 2012 22: 27
      China bought the whole new history of military equipment .... at least from the last Empress Qi Xi ... then from Germany, then from Russia .... etc. (England, USA) ..... and not the fact that he was always preparing for war ...
      By the way, I don’t remember more than one war over the past 250-300 years in which he won ... from the Opium Wars to the last with Japan, Vietnam, conflicts with the USSR, Burma or India .....
      and if one recalls from ancient times, then China has been under the Mongols and Manchurians for centuries .. (from whom did they build a wall?)
      1. -3
        8 March 2012 02: 44
        Well, now China and Russia have changed places: now Russia is an amoeba, and China has become a predator. And besides: China has more mobilization reserves than the Russian Federation and the USA, in general, men combined ... Do not think that the Chinese know their weaknesses worse than we do ...
        1. 0
          8 March 2012 10: 56
          I do not agree, because China has never been a militaristic country. And the conflicts in which he participated confirm this. The mentality of China is different: "sit on a mountain and wait for the corpse of your enemy to be carried by you." The number of soldiers under arms does not always decide the matter. However, for reference: China, theoretically, can put about 140 million people under arms. And therefore, Russia and China must "keep their ears open."
  28. +2
    7 March 2012 21: 04
    A very successful first photograph of an airplane in an article (elegant, swift).
  29. +1
    7 March 2012 21: 23
    They will sell and appear copies (some J-19 or 21) cheaper than the Mig-29 of the Russian production, but the quality will be acceptable for some Pakistan, etc. DO NOT SELL!
    1. 0
      7 March 2012 22: 19
      ... I do not agree ... let them copy, it seems at first glance that the copy and the original are the same ...... For example, will you buy a Chinese copy of the European and Japanese cars? ... That's it ...
      There are many nuances in the manufacture of any complex technical product ...- from the quality of the metal (or its composition), ..... and the like, to the complexity of technical solutions in the assembly and production ....
      As in that joke, remember .. about the MIG-29 that was assembled, but the tractor will turn out ..... it's certainly exaggerated, but the essence is true ...
      It’s necessary to sell, it’s money for the military-industrial complex (and as a whole they go to the Russian Federation) .... you just need not stop there, but by the time they copy something similar, they’ll already offer a new model. generation to apply 5, 5+, etc. ..... to infinity ....
  30. itkul
    0
    7 March 2012 22: 21
    Yes, they need engines that are installed on the Su-35 to copy them and put on their fifth generation aircraft
  31. CBT Pinocchio
    -9
    7 March 2012 22: 32
    Audible neighing !!! good
    China needs Su-35s, but the Internet was filled with a dance about some kind of "ultumatum" ...
    This is the quintessence of the stupidity of cranks living in their own world. China, if something was said, then about the purchase of a certain amount of S-400 and all.
    Nobody needs the Su-35 and they are ready to sell it to anyone, the problem is different - there is no line and the Su-35 will never pay off. But China already has everything from the Su-27XX, and so it could have been of interest only to the radar station and then with an interest pulled over its ears. That’s all, China doesn’t need you anymore - China is a highly developed country with a tank strategy of wedges of 3000 km to Siberia, Russia for a turn is a raw-banana country. Yes
    And they don’t need engines - Russia regularly supplies AL-31FP (N), soon there will be them too, 117C is not the 5th engine and it will never be like 119 - then all the afterburners of the fourth. In Russia there will not be a long afterburner of the fifth generation of engines. By the way - and 117C they were offered, did not take ...
    1. -6
      7 March 2012 23: 17
      definitely there is no queue for the su-35
      over 85 million will add and take a western sample

      all our customers charge a su-30 cost of 40 million - why overpay

      yes, a song went on Chinese blogs - WHY DO WE NEED THIS SU-35 (RIGHT INTEREST IS ONLY IRBIS REPRESENTS)
      so at least china sell-but here 50 to 50

      and before the 5th generation engine, as before China, according to the developers, the first sample MAY BE READY FOR 15 YEARS –– the entire 6th generation engine is being developed
    2. +2
      8 March 2012 18: 26
      Quote: CBT Pinocchio
      117C is not the 5th engine and it will never be like 119

      117 is really 4 generations .5 generation- 129 announced for 2015 to the T-50 series
      These are the things
      PS.119 I think this is the F119 engine mounted on the F-22, the fifth American generation with a thrust of 15800. Product 129 Russian fifth generation is already American 6, the thrust of 20000 kgs is declared
  32. -2
    7 March 2012 22: 53
    Dimitrxnumx,
    I agree with Dimitr77, but not only it’s worth thinking about, if we are selling such equipment, then you need to sell it for something equivalent for gold, for example, or at least rubles and not for candy wrappers from FRS
  33. marauder
    -3
    7 March 2012 23: 22
    And why does China buy for dollars. let it take for rubles.
    1. +1
      7 March 2012 23: 59
      marauder,
      And where will China get the enti rubles? Will it buy from us for the same dollars? And why the hell are these rubles for us, we have them anyway ... and even more. For gold, it's another matter
      1. marauder
        +2
        8 March 2012 14: 50
        dollars should generally be excluded from the transaction.
        otherwise we will give the planes, and we will get colored paper printed by a private Fed shop and they are not provided with anything.
        and for China to have rubles, they must sell us something for these rubles (for example, gold or something else). As a result, the Russian economy will grow, and the American economy will lose.
      2. 0
        8 March 2012 20: 20
        Quote: Old Rocketman
        And where will China get the Enti rubles? Will it buy from us for the same dollars?

        and what a good idea. We’ll sell twice, first rubles, then our equipment for our rubles. Here is a slight strengthening of the ruble. Once it will be in demand. The United States is doing just that. In general, it is not clear why we use the money of the THIRD country for mutual settlements
  34. +1
    8 March 2012 01: 05
    Let them buy rubles for gold :) Americans during the war sold military equipment of the USSR for precious metals, why not Russia too ...
  35. aleksej
    -1
    8 March 2012 09: 14
    Damn, and so always, we sell a whole bunch of our equipment abroad, and we buy units for our armament :(
  36. 6o6er
    +1
    8 March 2012 09: 55
    First, the entire industry was ruined, they taught some "ECONOMISTS" and now they want to do something new ... funny! All Russian weapons were developed 50 years ago, and their deep modernization is passed off as new samples ...
    Now the money has appeared, only there are no more people who at least could do something.
  37. black_eagle
    +2
    8 March 2012 15: 15
    A worthless situation looms, on the one hand, the most profitable contract, on the other hand, an unreliable client. What to do here? I think the answer is one, China ONLY needs Su-35 to study and clone, no more, they don’t have an urgent need for such fighters now, think up the rest yourself
  38. oleg-sochi68
    +2
    8 March 2012 19: 13
    A good contract and not a reliable customer. It is said correctly. However, concluding contracts, knowing that they will be terminated after the delivery of a small series, is at least not effective and not profitable. And it’s not worth talking about the quality of Chinese technology (or worth it, but not in that way). With their population and the size of the military budget, they rivet an armful of this low-quality equipment and, if necessary, they will simply crush the mass, as happens with the consumer goods made by them - everyone knows that they take garbage because it’s cheap. And they will be able to get a sample for copying without a contract, there would be a desire. And the T-50, we will not soon see, in the right amount, like many other military equipment. I would like to hope that the army and navy will be equipped with modern and effective models, but something is doubtful.
  39. Stasi.
    +2
    8 March 2012 19: 27
    Sooner or later, the Chinese quantity will turn into quality. The Chinese will sooner or later master the technology of producing high-tech weapons. one way or another, but do not forget that China can also become an enemy. Different things are said about the motives for the war: these are natural resources and the space of Russia, and more. But few say that one of the causes of the war may be the demographic crisis in China. It is expressed in the fact that in China there are many men and not enough women. And in Russia there are few men and many women. So one of the reasons for the war may be women. In truth, the Chinese themselves are to blame for this imbalance. But they will not think about it.
    1. oleg-sochi68
      +1
      8 March 2012 20: 08
      Russia’s adversary (enemy) is not so much America as China, England. And quantity in quality will pass without fail. But even for China, such big money for armaments makes itself felt. People want to eat too.
  40. +1
    9 March 2012 20: 00
    China can be sold, but not 48 machines.
    If the Chinese copy the car, what part of the market will we lose? This is the quantity that we need to sell to them;))
    Those. The entire potential Su-35 market is 300 machines. Because of the Chinese who fit in with their copy, we can only sell 200. So the Chinese should pay for these 100 now. They need to sell at least 100 cars at the price of 148 mi. And in the load force to buy more pieces 20 Mig-29;))
  41. +2
    9 March 2012 23: 03
    Why would they need the SU-35 if they are creating their own J-20? It means that something is not working for them. It seems to me that they want to copy the "stuffing" of the SU-35. Therefore, if it is sold, then with understated characteristics. For example, with outdated radar, electronics, weapons.
  42. 0
    11 March 2012 10: 19
    China has officially denied negotiations with Russia on the possible purchase of Su-35

    that's all

    I wrote about barley below so that this plane so far has not interested anyone except our air force, the story is like with French rafal

    http://www.militaryparitet.com/ttp/data/ic_ttp/365/
  43. CBT Pinocchio
    -1
    11 March 2012 10: 33
    Gay Russians - China called the news about the "purchase" of the Su-35 a fake, and accordingly the "conditions" about "not copying"
    - I laugh at you and yours (how can I say so that they will not be banned again? ...) - "wretched Great".

    PS
    By the way, I told you right away that China has no plans for the Su-35. Everything turned out to be delirium and crap. Traditional Russian crap - a country in which there is nothing left but to sing crap ... good
    1. oleg-sochi68
      +2
      11 March 2012 11: 41
      Gay seems to be you. Learn to communicate normally. Or are you Nete Joe invincible? Dumb to even see your callsign
    2. oper66
      +1
      11 March 2012 11: 54
      Yes, you see you are an important "cocksucker" in China, since you know everything in advance - you probably suck out the secrets of the cuttings wassat
      1. oleg-sochi68
        +1
        11 March 2012 12: 00
        Hi!
        oper66, did this tree bother you too?
        1. 0
          11 March 2012 18: 16
          Horror how tired
        2. oper66
          +1
          11 March 2012 18: 51
          Horror and will not dry out from bile am
  44. 0
    20 January 2015 22: 07
    Do not sell for any money. They promise everything they want, and then copy it, the creatures are narrow-eyed. After 2-3 years they will want to buy a Su-37, they say Russia doesn’t need it, you already have t-50.