To save the space industry, Ukraine is ready to sell Soviet space technologies.

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A person, no matter what nationality he belongs to, is always proud of his country. He is proud of his ancestors, proud of the victories of his ancestors, proud of the artists and the works created by him, he is proud of even the unique natural "masterpieces" that exist only in his country. A person looks at things created by previous generations and understands that this citizen of his country was the first in this eternal race for a better life. Is it bad or good? Probably good. Because a person feels connected to the great stories humanity and the history of his country. Man is not only ready to continue the great deeds of his ancestors, but also to protect what has already been created.

To save the space industry, Ukraine is ready to sell Soviet space technologies.




The same is true of states, cities, towns, factories, factories ... Similarly, there are those who are proud that they are "the founders of democracy." Others live in the "cradle of the revolution." Third - in the "financial center of the world." And so on. There are many examples.

20 century gave humanity a lot of things that are significant precisely on a global scale. Just listing these achievements would have taken me a few pages in small print. And surely something significant would have been missed. But there are things that no one can miss. In particular, space exploration. It was 20 century that gave us a dream come true. More precisely, the beginning of the execution of a dream. We went beyond the limits of our own planet and for the first time thought about those who might be living somewhere there ... We saw firsthand how small our Earth is ... And how big the cosmos is.

Among the pioneers of space exploration was our country. True, it was then called differently: the USSR. But ours ... In exactly the same way, today, citizens of all the former republics of the Soviet Union can quite deservedly, in my opinion. Today we live in different countries, but together we were pioneers of space exploration. How together we defeated fascism.

It seemed to us that it was impossible to deprive the people of this proud title. However, the history of modern Ukraine shows the opposite. The greatest minds that were and, I hope, exist in Ukraine, in the field of development, design and creation of spacecraft, are almost not in demand today. The agrarian power, as it is now spoken at the government level in Ukraine, cannot afford to allow itself to build an independent space industry.

Today, the pain of breaking our (Ukraine and Russia) relations in the space industry has somewhat subsided. Not because we have become "callous" and incapable of experiencing. No, it's just that in the two years that have passed since the break, Russia has managed to replace much of what was produced in Ukraine with its own developments or imports from other countries.

Let me remind readers of some joint Russian-Ukrainian projects. Those who brought or could bring huge profits for both countries.

"Sea Launch". Project 1995 of the year. Really international project. The founders of which are the American "BOEING", the Russian "ENERGY", the "YuZHNOE" design bureau, the "YUZHMASH" plant and the Norwegian shipbuilding company "AKER SOLUTION" (modern name). Beautiful project. Launch on the Ukrainian carrier from the Odyssey site (a former Japanese oil production platform near Christmas Island) of middle-class spacecraft. After the Americans left the project, Energia received up to 95% of shares (2010 year).

But after the "Maidan" Ukraine, the Ukrainian authorities considered the project "Moskalsky" and ceased cooperation. 22 August 2014 of the Sea Launch was stopped, and on December 24 Dmitry Rogozin declared that it was impossible to cooperate with Yuzhmash ... But during the existence of the project 36 launches were made, 32 of which are successful! Ukrainian politicians (not designers and engineers of the space industry) declare the continued production of Zenit-3SL rockets, but everyone understands that a rocket consisting of Russian components on 70% will not fly into the sky ...

Ground Launch. "By-product" "Sea Launch". Specifics of "MS" were used to develop the possibilities of using "Zenith" already for launches from Baikonur. Missiles have become completely Russian-Ukrainian. Zenit-3SLB and Zenit-3SLBF. Over the five years of the project’s existence (from 2008 to 2013), 5 launches have been made. All successful.

True, the Ukrainians have already been dreaming for 3 ... The Ukrainian dream is “Air start”. Fortunately, there is still a theoretical opportunity to make this dream a reality. I mean the famous An-225 Mriya. Only here the situation in industry and in general in the economy of Ukraine today is such that the dream will remain a mriya ...

And there was also "Rokot". Three-stage lightweight rockets. The Khrunichev center produced rockets, but the control systems for the boosters were supplied from Kharkov (Elektropribor plant, now Khartron). The rocket is capable of putting into orbit up to 2 tons of cargo. Used mostly for the needs of the Ministry of Defense of Russia. Over the years 15 produced 23 start. Freelance two. Probably not sure exactly the most budget rocket ($ 20 million with all costs).

Dnipro. "Civilian version" of the famous Soviet ballistic missile RS-20 (according to the NATO SS-18 Satan classification). One of the most powerful missiles in the world. It is in place of this "Satan" came "Bulava". It was produced at "Yuzhmash" ... For 16 years 22 launch from Baikonur was made. Non-standard one.

Well, how can you not remember the famous (or famous, given that I remember the legend about the founding of Kiev) “Lybed”. This is the first Ukrainian geostationary satellite, produced in Canada and safely rotting in the city of Zheleznogorsk, Krasnoyarsk Territory. Initially, in 2009, a good project. For 254 $ million, Ukraine receives a satellite, which should be launched in 2011 year ... For this, the above mentioned Land Launch should be used. But ... "No money." "The power of the satellite must be increased ..." The start is postponed indefinitely (until complete destruction, I suppose) time. The cost of the satellite has grown not only for storage in the warehouse, but also in connection with the replacement of Ukrainian components with Russian ones on Zenit-3SLBF missiles.

But what is written above, already, alas, relates to history. And descendants will deal with history. We are in this matter "myopic". A large, as is known, is seen in the distance. And what about today? Do Ukraine and Ukrainian politicians do not understand that the loss of the space industry “dumps” the country to the level of a third-party power? And the powers?

I would like to quote from the speech of Yaroslav Yatskiv, academician of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine, at a roundtable in Yuzhnoye Design Bureau on May 26: “The potential of Ukraine is not yet high enough for us to master the Moon ourselves. We must integrate into the global space community with China, America or The European Space Agency. And what we can do better should be included in these international missions, we should be taken as an accomplice. "

I think most readers have already understood what the discussion will be about next. No more nothing less than how Ukraine’s participation in ... the exploration of the moon! Do not be surprised, but those words that you read above, just about that.

It is clear that today the potential of Ukraine in the space field is of little interest to anyone. Of course, from those countries that have this industry. Modern science is no longer moving by leaps and bounds. The score goes to the parsecs ... Yes, and we are moving at least in one direction, but still different “paths”. The “path” of Ukraine so far largely coincides with the Russian one, but ... We do not cooperate in the space field. Americans, as well as the French, do not need Ukrainian technology ...

But there are countries that for various reasons were not among the pioneers of the space industry. Do not have major achievements yet. And according to the potential they can afford it. There are several such countries. And the first on the list is China. It is the Chinese who are interested in Ukrainian technologies. More precisely, in the Soviet technologies that went to Ukraine during the collapse of the USSR.

Many readers have heard about the ambitious project of China on the exploration of the moon. The Chinese seriously intend to land on Earth’s satellite and not just explore, but explore the planet. I often mention Chinese hard work. And especially about dedication. If stated, they will. Not today, then tomorrow, not tomorrow, the day after tomorrow. The blessing the economy allows to allocate huge funds for space.

In the media, there were reports that China wants to buy the technology of creating the "E block" of the Soviet descent module from Ukraine, where the landing of the Soviet cosmonaut on the moon was planned at the end of 60-x and the beginning of 70-s of the last century. At that time, there was a "space race" between the USSR and the USA. Both countries have developed and implemented many new technologies. Both countries tried to "wipe the nose" to each other. Accordingly, it was possible to both parties. Now in one, then in another confrontation.

In the matter of landing on the moon "nose wiped" to us. Let me remind you, in the USSR, a project of a lunar ship L-3 was being developed. The device should have been launched into space by a heavy H-1 rocket. Then, already in the orbit of the moon, one of the astronauts from the orbital module passed into the descent module. Thus, one member of the expedition was on the surface of the moon, and the second was waiting for him in orbit. Transitions from module to module were carried out by going into open space.



It is clear that many technical solutions for this ship were truly revolutionary. Much of what was created during the development of the project is used today in modern missiles. But after an unsuccessful test of the H-1 rocket in 1974, the project was abandoned. L-3 "put on the shelf." And today this particular project is of great interest to the Chinese ...

In order to warn the "crying" of some particularly patriotic readers about the discharge of Soviet technologies by the "potential" partner, "I would like to refer them to the launch video of Chinese manned spacecraft. Look carefully. Very instructive video.

Compare the Soviet "Union" and the Chinese "Shenzhou". Compare the spacesuits of the Soviet cosmonauts and Chinese Taekonauts. Find differences? No, they certainly are.

"Shenzhou" is not an exact copy of the "Union", but its continuation. The device is more spacious, comfortable, modern. But ... Soviet. And where did he come from the Chinese? Where do these taikonauts come from? Why is the Soviet spacesuit "Falcon" so "sitting" on them? And everything is simple. In 90-s, it was we who sold the Soviet space technology to the Chinese. We, Russia. And they not only sold them, but also prepared these same Taekonauts in our training centers. Sold for "pennies" that cost us billions.

I don’t know, honestly, it was the right decision or the wrong one. On the one hand, we sold unique technologies to those who needed them. And on the other? We sold for a pittance. Allowing thereby saving hundreds, or maybe thousands of times more money than was spent on the purchase, to the same China. We practically "made" a Chinese manned space program.

But back to Ukraine. Will the sale of block E of the module L-3 take place? Namely, this block is the main one in the future deal. Block E is something that Soviet science can be proud of. This unit serves both for landing on the moon and for the reverse launch to the orbital module. To exclude technical inaccuracies, I will quote a quote from Andrei Borisov’s article: “Block E reaches height of 1,72 meter, its diameter is 2,38 meter, weight is 525 kilograms. Asymmetric dimethyl hydrazine is used as fuel, oxidant is nitrogen tetraoxide. The rocket unit included there are two engines - the main 11Д411 (РД858) and the backup 11Д412 (РД859). The first is designed for two starts (when landing on the Moon and when starting from it), the second one - on one (in case of failure of the main engine during landing and for securing at start boarding Modules from the surface of the Moon). "Block E" has successfully passed ground tests, all three flight tests within L3 failed. By the year 1974 in the Ukrainian SSR was created about 20 "Block E". "

It seems to me that today the sale of technologies for Ukraine is the only way to save at least some place in the global space industry. A chance to keep the same "Yuzhmash". It is clear that it is already impossible to restore the status of the space power. The state of the country's economy is such that with each passing day the lag will only increase. And soon this lag will become noticeable already in science. The most “fresh” ideas will, if not “pass by,” Ukrainian scientists and designers, then “will remain behind the glass showcases” for sure.

Someone will go to the same China, someone will just leave by age, someone will leave for other reasons ... Ukrainian school of designers and scientists in this area will die. As it happens, unfortunately, with aircraft manufacturers, with shipbuilders ... If today there is still a ghostly hope for some kind of revival of cooperation, then tomorrow it will not be. It's a pity...
110 comments
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  1. +7
    30 June 2017 05: 41
    Once the people were told: "We are a cosmic power." And the people shouted: "Give the Cosmos." And even something happened. And very recently the people were told: "We are an agrarian power." And the people cried out again: "Give the agrarian power." Maybe something will work out. What people will say tomorrow is not known to anyone. Life by a whistle or a shout is not life, and it is not a people who live such a life.
    1. +4
      30 June 2017 06: 08
      Kim Jong-un will not worry about the sanction while countries such as Ukraine exist. I won’t be surprised if a breakthrough in rocket science turns out to occur precisely for this reason.
      1. +2
        30 June 2017 07: 29
        There is essentially nothing to sell, everything is already delayed .... whether, including military topics. Only most likely not to China ...
        1. +2
          30 June 2017 15: 20
          Quote: maxim947
          There is essentially nothing to sell, everything is already delayed .... whether, including military topics. Only most likely not to China ...

          The main documentation, and it can be sold any number of times. And will appear, in the near future, and the American and Portuguese and Uruguayan rocket launchers. Because it’s not a problem to build production now, but sell the settings, it’s already significant for any state. But to sell so cunningly and quietly, first seize power, then deprive yourself of production. And then, from the hopelessness of their own economy, to sell all the secrets. This is already at the highest level of economic games. It was, admittedly, done expertly. Learn to recognize your defeat, it makes the strong stronger, and the weak begin to cry and look for traitors.
          1. +6
            30 June 2017 17: 39
            us have take as an accomplice

            Fuck, someone owes them again. "Lenders" grimy. laughing
            And here's how to take an “accomplice”. The time will come, we will take all the "partners".
    2. +3
      30 June 2017 20: 53
      They did not say anything to the people. Everything was top secret. There are no more people: on this territory and on the planet there is an excess population. According to statistics, no more than 15% of the population have wealth. The system exists for 0,5% of the population. They then “sold” the technologies that were created by the efforts and due to the overexploitation of the Soviet people.
  2. +6
    30 June 2017 06: 10
    The sale of space technology is the path to the revival of the country!
    1. +8
      30 June 2017 06: 36
      In the case of Ukraine, unfortunately the whole phrase sounds different:
      Selling a country is a chance to revive technology.
      Moreover, the technologies will not be their own, but imported.
      1. +1
        30 June 2017 17: 55
        Not to revival, no, to Mastering technology ...
    2. +4
      30 June 2017 06: 42
      Globally in one sentence. Alas, this is just a way to preserve Yuzhmash’s capacities for a while. The Chinese are not stupid and demand from the Ukrainians not just documentation, but also a ready-made module. Do not require him to be delivered to China. But you must create it. For experiments on the territory of the same Yuzhmash.
      It is doubtful of course that they will create a new module. But it’s worth looking at warehouses ... Of those that were once created ... In general, it seems to me that Yuzhmash needs to be reprofiled. Today there are several projects where its products are in demand. The same "Vega" European, for example. Let them engage in engines ...
      1. +4
        30 June 2017 09: 47
        Quote: domokl
        On the whole, it seems to me that Yuzhmash needs to be reprofiled. Today there are several projects where its products are in demand. The same "Vega" European, for example. Let them engage in engines ...

        Thank you so much! Are you by any chance not from the cohort of those highly efficient managers who are now “developing” the Russian space? Just at Yuzhmash they did not know what to do and what to do. You really helped with your in-depth analysis of the problem, thanks!
        1. +4
          30 June 2017 12: 35
          Quote: Wowka
          Are you by any chance not from the cohort of those highly efficient managers who are now “developing” the Russian space?

          No, I'm from a cohort of sane people ... Today, so far, only engines are bought from you .. Both Americans and Europeans ... The rest was requested only for Russia ...
          And as I understand it, you will not cooperate with Russia. Yes, and we, too, probably. And what remains? Simple logic ...
          1. 0
            30 June 2017 12: 45
            Quote: domokl
            you will not cooperate with Russia. Yes, and we, too, probably.

            Here I think it will be so.
            Therefore, each country is looking for cooperation with others (so as not to delay everything that is) and is trying on its own to do what is possible with its space program.
            Engines are also good, because they are very serious and technologically advanced.
            But judging by some contracts (Canada, Zenit), it’s not only the engines.
            If everything is done correctly, then cooperation with China on the Moon and the lunar program is also possible.
            There are other areas in space cooperation, and yes, including Europe and the United States.
            In addition, the Design Bureau works in its own - so to speak - native element - military missile development. And as you probably know, in this area the design bureau was the best in the Union. What and how now - I think we will soon find out.
            hi
            1. +2
              3 July 2017 19: 49
              And "livestock!"
              This is from ABS in the best period of creativity ..
    3. +4
      30 June 2017 21: 01
      Quote: avaks111
      The sale of space technology is the path to the revival of the country!

      Space technology cannot be a commodity; it is the property of the state. Only thieves can transfer this property to other states.
    4. +1
      30 June 2017 22: 17
      The sale of space technology is the path to the revival of the country!

      Yeah, the buyer ....
  3. +10
    30 June 2017 06: 45
    no one has a monopoly on "Soviet technology" - a country that died 25 years ago.
    Russia sells abroad both technology and products made on the technologies of the USSR and no one accuses her of selling.
    Southern was not an appendage of something, but developed the final product itself.
    Therefore, the author accusing the country of selling technology not only does not notice the log in his eye, but also forgets that the development of high-tech equipment, commissioned by another country, is something that all countries do and are proud of.
    1. +21
      30 June 2017 08: 04
      You would read the article ... Where are the charges? Or is it said nothing about what Russia was selling? As I understand it, the comment on the principle of shallow Emelya is your week ... Talk about preserving the remnants of the space industry .. Do you have a brain that melts there from the heat?
    2. +8
      30 June 2017 08: 11
      The author directly stated that the Russian Federation did the same in the 90s. Strange rebuke.
      1. +5
        30 June 2017 10: 08
        Quote: Tanarri
        Russia did the same in the 90s

        why only in the 90s? now the same
    3. +11
      30 June 2017 09: 05
      Quote: karish
      Southern was not an appendage of something, but developed the final product itself.

      Yuzhnoye and Yuzhmash completely did nothing 100%. A bunch of allies, a bunch of suppliers, a bunch of design bureaus with which we collaborated. Now, from scratch, they will not pull a single project from scratch (and even before they often acted as the lead organization for design and production, and this does not mean the ability to FULLY produce missiles independently), and those missiles that can still produce are already outdated. Outdated even more than Russian. Design Bureau Yuzhny and Yuzhmash were the most important part of the gigantic complex of the space industry of the USSR. The most important parts of this complex have been preserved and work for the most part in Russia, and the prospects for independent and "swimming" of the Ukrainian part of this complex, independent from Russia, are extremely foggy and uncertain.
      It is extremely difficult to reproduce the lunar apparatus due to the complete loss of technology - now there are other machines, equipment, materials, equipment. It is necessary to practically rework the old development under the new conditions. And it’s not about reproduction: China is unlikely to agree to the development of the 70s. Based on those developments, something new needs to be created. Can Yuzhnoye and Yuzhmash design bureaus do this? Southern can definitely - in the end, in addition to design systems, computer technology and the brains of designers, nothing is needed for this. And all this is already available, or it is easily obtained with an order. Will Yuzhmash make a product? It will probably be able to play the old module. Although, as far as I remember, there were hundreds of component suppliers throughout the Union. It will also be able to make a new module - it is more complicated and requires significant investments. The question is different: will China finance the creation of a practically new creator of spacecraft outside of China? Isn’t it easier to organize this production at home through a brain drain?
      And in vain Staver speaks about the possibility of “completing old space modules manufactured in the 70s. During this time, all this equipment has definitely become unusable. Restoring and“ completing ”it is unreasonable risks, and this is not suitable for manned space exploration. Yes and those old apparatuses did not pass the full cycle of tests.
      Quote: karish
      Therefore, the author accusing the country of selling technology not only does not notice the log in his eye, but also forgets that the development of high-tech equipment, commissioned by another country, is something that all countries do and are proud of.

      The author does not blame him at all - he says the same thing about Russia. Here is a quote from the author:
      It seems to me that today the sale of technology for Ukraine is the only way to maintain at least some place in the global space industry. A chance to keep the same Yuzhmash.

      And what's wrong? This also applies to the Russian space industry, although to a lesser extent than to Ukraine. No wonder we, in the end, sell rocket engines to the Americans! bully hi
      1. +3
        30 June 2017 10: 57
        Quote: andj61
        Yuzhnoye and Yuzhmash completely did nothing 100%.

        This is your Wishlist, no more. Do you at least read something clever or look on YouTube something other than "Americans have never been on the moon" negative
        Yes, the article, as it were, does not blame, but expresses a negative attitude to the processes that were and are in the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau.
        Well, as usual, the opinion that the Southern Design Bureau is insolvent is something to do on their own, both now and in the USSR, that everything has already died and it is better to make pans.
        Such an opinion is far from being consistent, from a bunch to a puddle, but it is popular among the not reading mass of hat-takers, hurray-units and all-scum.
        Block E is designed and assembled completely by KB South at the request of the Queen. The queen needed help in his lunar program, about which he himself spoke. Prior to this event, a special "Space Department" was created in Yuzhnoye Design Bureau. And in space and rocket technology a lot was created there. But the KB did not work on manned ships just because the KB task was to create the USSR missile shield. The KB did its job perfectly.
        But block E was made just for peaceful space. And made perfectly. Now in KB Yuzhnoye stands in the museum, ready at least now for work. And the technology is all - for your information - stored and reproducible. In the technology itself, the lunar program has gone far ahead. Since at the moment the United States (and no one else) has offered anything besides its lunar module, Block E comes out and at the moment in the 21st century is a breakthrough in comparison with any other technologies in this area. Therefore, it is natural that China would like to receive a ready-made unit and documentation on the applied technologies. And naturally, Ukraine at this stage is not going to and does not have the opportunity to independently engage in space.
        Cosmos today is a cooperation; it has grown out of the projects of individual individuals for a long time. space alone alone is now beyond the reach of anyone (in the current development of technology).
        The engine from block E was used in some head part of the combat vehicle, so everything was not in vain.
        Regarding the Zenith, this is also an interesting project of the Yuzhny Design Bureau, a purely space carrier (rather than a defense alteration), environmentally friendly (the design office had always worked with "dirty" technologies before), was developed taking into account the use of the first stages as an accelerator in the future for Energy (unification, as happened). And the main load on the engine was just on the design bureau. A unique rocket came out. Reviews about it are still the best (for example, Elon Musk spoke not so long ago, but he seems to be with his brains and common sense).
        And all these technologies and developments can now be raised and applied, taking into account modern technologies. Money! Yes, they are needed. And this is a problem not only of Ukraine, but also of other space powers.
        Regarding - which country can be called a space - I will answer for a long time with the well-known axiom - that country that has such technologies and can apply them. Would there be money, right?
        So do not be so skeptical and contemptuous. Everything is not quite bad, but one of the best can be said.
        1. +3
          1 July 2017 23: 15
          At one time, I - purely by accident - worked at the NII-4 MO, and I can imagine where and what missiles were produced even without Wikipedia. Imagine yourself as a bureau of Yuzhno and Yuzhmash in isolation from the entire USSR, first of all, from Russian enterprises - and what, you still think that they could produce at least one product! Or just design it from scratch p to the end! This is exactly what I had in mind, and I did not have any skepticism, and, especially, contempt - you made up your own mind. The defense industry of the USSR worked as a single indivisible mechanism, and the isolation of Ukrainian enterprises from this mechanism is a very difficult and painful process for the Russians. Not a single Yuzhmash missile was created 100% in Ukraine, and 60% was not a bunch of allies, suppliers, etc. and mostly from Russia. Three years passed - and in Russia all the difficulties associated with this split were practically resolved. Or they will be finally decided in the next year or two. And for the defense, especially missile, industry of Ukraine, this section does not simply mean complexity, it means the construction of the missile industry again. Now Yuzhmash is finishing off the remnants of the heritage of the past. But after all, over the years since the collapse of the USSR, nothing new was created, only the old was recycled. There will be investments, for example, from China - Yuzhmash will find its niche, no - that means there will be no Yuzhmash either.
          1. The comment was deleted.
        2. 0
          3 August 2018 12: 53
          If it is, then why not show us?
      2. 0
        30 June 2017 11: 08
        Quote: andj61
        Yuzhnoye and Yuzhmash completely did nothing 100%.

        Well, since you cannot at least use Wikipedia so as not to write these nonsense (to read books, as I understand it, you are not accustomed to), I will give a short Wikipedia to expand your erudition (if any). This is not all, but at least something.

        Missiles
        P-12
        P-14
        P-16
        P-36
        R-36M, RS-20, Dnipro
        MR UR-100
        RT-23
        RT-23 UTTH
        R-56 is an experimental superheavy launch vehicle for interplanetary flights, including to the moon.
        "Space"
        "Zenith"
        "Cyclone"
        "Lighthouse"

        Spacecraft
        Series "Dnepropetrovsk satellite" (DS), including for the program "Intercosmos"
        Series "Typhoon"
        AUOS (AUOS-Z, AUOS-SM)
        "Tselina"
        EgyptSat-1

        That's not all. Look if you can
        1. +5
          30 June 2017 21: 06
          These products are not a factory, but the USSR. The USSR is not just a large system, but a unique super-large system that strived for a lofty goal. "The USSR has died" - all the attributes of a great power will die. Not a single part of the USSR is viable separately.
          1. 0
            1 July 2017 01: 27
            Quote: iouris
            These products are not a factory, but the USSR

            What a twist!
            Sushi, Migi, Unions, Typhoon, T-64, Lunokhod and so on.
            This is something like this: "Lunokhods were created under the direction of G. N. Babakin in the design bureau of the Machine-Building Plant named after ...." and so for each product.
            And you depersonalized everything: Lunokhods were created by the Soviet Union under the leadership of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. laughing
        2. +6
          30 June 2017 21: 13
          Quote: Wowka
          That's not all

          These are the KEY words in your comment. And now, if you can, indicate the degree of LOCALIZATION on all these products. How much is Pivdenny capable of producing them himself, without supplying units and accessories from outside?
          1. 0
            1 July 2017 01: 52
            Quote: svp67
            That's not all
            These are the KEY words in your comment

            No, the key was that the Design Bureau developed and created products that became the USSR's nuclear missile shield, on the remains of which, by the way, the Russian shield is now supported.
            And the keywords became after the replica of the giant of thought
            andj61
            Yuzhnoye and Yuzhmash completely did nothing 100%.

            Regarding your question, unfortunately I can’t tell you what and to what extent the design bureau can do the same, but as far as I know, usually in all countries after a series of products the production lines are removed after a certain time. technologies remain on the basis of which, if necessary, a more perfect product can be created. It makes no sense to repeat these products, and even if only because for Ukraine such products as R-36M are simply not needed, as you understand yourself.
            As far as the Yuzhny Design Bureau is currently able to create missile weapons - time will tell. At the moment - and this is not a secret - the Design Bureau is developing the Grom-2 operational-tactical missile system, and it’s kind of like in metal and not just on paper. And the components are certainly all their own (today, for sure, from Russia there will be nothing there smile ).
        3. +2
          2 July 2017 22: 00
          You will also learn to use Wikipedia. andj61 business says. For example, take two Yuzhmash missiles, which are his pride: the R-36M ICBM (including the Voivode) and the Zenit rocket.

          At the first stage of the R-36M there is a four-chamber RD-264 liquid propellant rocket engine developed by KBEM (chief designer V.P. Glushko). Today it is NPO Energomash named after Academician V.P. Glushko (Khimki, Moscow Region, Russian Federation).
          At the second stage - a single-chamber RD-0229 engine and a four-chamber RD-0229 steering engine. Both engines are developed by KBHA (Voronezh, RF).

          Now for the Zenith.
          At the first stage there is a four-chamber RD-171 engine, developed by Energomash.
          At the second stage there is a single-chamber RD-120 of the same Energomash, but they can also be made at Yuzhmash and the four-chamber steering RD-8, this time Ukrainian, Yuzhnoye Design Bureau.
          Well, the DM-SL upper stage is made by RSC Energia (Korolev, Moscow Region, RF).

          In other words, without the Russian contribution, both “Satan” and “Zenith” are nothing more than expensive “barrels”, suitable only for monuments of glorious Soviet times, or for scrap.
          1. 0
            2 July 2017 22: 22
            ok i will check
          2. The comment was deleted.
      3. 0
        30 June 2017 17: 22
        Quote: andj61
        and those missiles that can still produce are already outdated. Outdated even more than Russian

        Yes? Yo-ma-yo. Out of date? But what about this:
        As of May 2006, the Strategic Missile Forces included: 74 silo launchers with ICBMs R-36M UTTKh and R-36M2, each equipped with 10 warheads. As of 2016, 54 RS-20 units were in combat duty in two positional areas in Dombarovsky and Uzhur in the variant with separate individual guidance units, which are planned to be kept on combat duty until the early 2020s

        And it’s kind of like they’ve not yet come up with!
        1. +4
          30 June 2017 21: 23
          Quote: Wowka
          And it’s kind of like they’ve not yet come up with!

          Who told you that? RS-28 "Sarmat", it replaces the "Voivode"
          1. 0
            1 July 2017 01: 09
            Quote: svp67
            Who told you that? RS-28 "Sarmat", it replaces the "Voivode"

            At the moment, Sarmat is already on alert or is still at the development-completion-testing stage?
            There is a big difference between the words “Coming” and “Came”.
            Now, when it comes, then it may be better (if all the performance characteristics are real as on paper). In the meantime, it's too early to say so, sorry
            1. +6
              1 July 2017 03: 32
              Quote: Wowka
              There is a big difference between the words “Coming” and “Came”.

              Yes there is. As well as between the "Invented" and "MADE." These are your words:
              Quote: Wowka
              And it’s kind of like they’ve not yet come up with!

              And by the way, this rocket is now at a higher stage of readiness than the Beer Thunder 2 and it definitely has nothing imported.
              1. 0
                1 July 2017 10: 42
                Quote: svp67
                this missile is now at a higher stage of readiness than the Thunder 2

                You know better. There is no information on Thunder-2 at all after the tests of Alder.
                1. +3
                  1 July 2017 15: 57
                  Quote: Wowka
                  You know better. There is no information on Thunder-2 at all after the tests of Alder.

                  Who said ... it is known that an interesting car was not long ago noticed, as it apparently carried a mass-dimensional model of this rocket ...
                  1. 0
                    1 July 2017 19: 33
                    an interesting car was noticed

                    while this is all from the "maybe" area
      4. The comment was deleted.
    4. +10
      30 June 2017 10: 03
      Quote: karish
      no one has a monopoly on "Soviet technology"

      Unfortunately, “at the top” they didn’t guess when they registered the ownership of foreign property and the debt of the USSR to Russia. Yes, and with patents at that time was "not very."
      As after the Second World War they made money on the collapse of Germany, so many "snatched a piece" after the collapse of the USSR.
      1. +1
        1 July 2017 02: 01
        Dead duck
        many "snatched a piece" after the collapse of the USSR

        The USSR itself consisted of those very pieces. The RSFSR was also a piece (in your own words). And nobody snatched anything. The pieces fell off. Moreover, all at once. And what remains for everyone is what remains.
        At least in the Constitution of the USSR, each republic had the right to secede freely. Of course, it was beautifully written on paper, in real life you yourself know what it was and how it all happens to this day.
        1. +1
          1 July 2017 04: 23
          What does "still happening" mean?
        2. +6
          1 July 2017 09: 35
          Quote: Wowka
          The USSR itself consisted of those very pieces.

          The conversation was about technology and achievements (scientific and technical), not territorial and political. Read carefully before writing. Yes
          1. 0
            1 July 2017 11: 05
            To your 2 questions:
            Until now, someone wants to challenge something, someone still believes that something has not been completed or altered. You know the results and consequences.
            Although there was such a Law of the USSR On the procedure for resolving issues related to exit
            Union Republic of the USSR:
            (yes, it’s already decided on the Union there, so it was decided by those representatives who arranged the people of the republics at the time, as if someone didn’t like or liked after almost three decades)
            Article 12.
            During the transition period, the Council of Ministers of the USSR, with the participation of the government of the outgoing republic, prepares proposals on issues relating to the state border of the USSR, as well as military facilities and units of the Armed Forces of the USSR located on the territory of the outgoing republic, and submits them to the President of the USSR and the Supreme Soviet of the USSR, which then referred to the Congress of People's Deputies of the USSR.
            Article 14.
            During the transition period, the Council of Ministers of the USSR, government bodies of the Union and autonomous republics, autonomous entities, together with the government of the outgoing republic, consider and resolve issues of ownership and material and financial calculations.
            In the relationship between the leaving republic, on the one hand, and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, as well as other union republics, autonomous republics, autonomous entities and national groups referred to in the second part of Article 3 of this Law, on the other hand, the following should be resolved during the transition period: questions:
            1) the fate of all-Union property located on the territory of the republic is determined (enterprises and complexes of basic industries, space research, energy, communications, sea, railway and air transport, communication lines, trunk pipelines, property of the USSR Armed Forces, defense and other objects), as well as property of all-Union public organizations;
            2) the financial and credit settlements of the leaving republic with the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the relationship of banks;
            3) the property and financial-credit relations of this republic are regulated with other union republics, as well as with autonomous republics, autonomous entities;
            4) the procedure for the fulfillment by enterprises and organizations of the leaving republic of their earlier contractual obligations with respect to enterprises and organizations located in the territory of other union republics, as well as autonomous republics and autonomous entities, is defined;
            5) the legal status and forms of settlements of joint ventures or affiliates of enterprises organized on the basis of all-Union property or property of other union republics, as well as autonomous republics and autonomous entities, are defined;
            6) a settlement procedure has been agreed with other states and international organizations on loans received for the construction of facilities in the territory of the outgoing republic or to meet the needs of this republic and its population, as well as for the corresponding portion of loans and borrowings spent on the implementation of all-Union procurement and programs used by the outgoing republic;
            7) the status of territories not belonging to the leaving republic at the time of its entry into the USSR was agreed;
            8) the status of territories in which the national groups referred to in part two of Article 3 of this Law live compactly has been agreed upon, taking into account the results of their will at the referendum;
            9) guarantees of the maintenance of historical and cultural monuments and burial places on the territory of the outgoing republic are provided;
            10) other issues requiring mutual settlement are resolved.

            And these issues were resolved during the "divorce" (and military facilities too, if you are talking about this), and someone received the benefits that were created by all members of the union in a single family. Another thing is that as a jealous, grumpy wife, someone decides after many years that she cooked and fed and they didn’t pay for it, forgetting that at the same time everyone worked and that she was no less involved in this work, and in some cases more. Like that ))
            1. +8
              1 July 2017 11: 12
              What are my questions? hi
              Young man, you branch were not mistaken ?!
              Both here and I talked about something else. From the number of letters written, the essence does not change.
              "... you are a nice person, do you happen to be a spammer? ..." (c)
              1. +1
                1 July 2017 12: 41
                Quote: Deadush
                What are my questions?

                Yes, I'm sorry, the branch above should have been, but it's too late.
                Sorry.
        3. +1
          2 July 2017 18: 18
          Quote: Wowka
          The pieces fell off.

          Quote: Wowka
          The USSR itself consisted of those very pieces.

          Do you also consist of "pieces"? I think your conclusions are the products of clip thinking, or propaganda.
          1. 0
            3 July 2017 03: 46
            What is clip thinking?
    5. +4
      30 June 2017 12: 07
      It is one thing to sell technology and equipment while having something perfect in stock. In the case of Ukraine, everything is different: they sell everything, create nothing!

      Therefore, dear, watch your country better. Somehow we ourselves, without you.
    6. +5
      30 June 2017 13: 11
      The whole problem is that Russia took over all the debts of the USSR and paid them, and others? Do not pay for anything and trade it as yours! In a certain sense, nonsense, or in another way, theft!
  4. +7
    30 June 2017 07: 17
    on the participation of Ukraine in ... exploration of the moon!

    And I thought that the Ukrainians had already been there. Judging by their statements, they are always the first everywhere and from them everything goes further around the world. We decided to sell the technology, so that's their business. We broke off cooperation with Russia in the space field, so it was necessary for us to do this first of all, and not to feed the regime. Even after the collapse of the USSR, it was necessary to think about replacing what was produced in Ukraine for the needs of the USSR.
  5. +10
    30 June 2017 07: 18
    Author!!
    Why did it happen???
    This “Satan” was replaced by the “Mace”.
    , "Mace" to replace "Satan." Oh well
    1. +3
      30 June 2017 07: 34
      I don’t want to use such analytics even as toilet paper
  6. +2
    30 June 2017 07: 36
    Quote: 1536
    And very recently the people were told: "We are an agrarian power."

    --------------------------
    "Agrarian power" is the road to nowhere, or rather, in the pre-Petrine era, in practice. We are an industrial and agrarian power. Today's agricultural technology does not require a huge number of peasants. So it’s better not to listen to stupid leaders like DAM and not focus on them. We are a space power yet. And let DAM with Tkachev let them serve their vineyards, if they are such agrarians.
  7. 0
    30 June 2017 07: 38
    Quote: domokl
    The Chinese are not stupid and demand from the Ukrainians not just documentation, but also a ready-made module. They do not require it to be delivered to China. But you must create it. For experiments on the territory of the same Yuzhmash.

    ---------------------
    Those who are engaged in technical robbery are unlikely to go much further if they do not create their own scientific-design school. In principle, China has many research institutes on aviation and space topics, but so far there is no breakthrough.
  8. +1
    30 June 2017 07: 47
    When your stomach sticks to your back with hunger, you will sell everything for nothing. Ukraine has long been scratching its guts - offering anything ... all these technologies become obsolete quickly, not selling now - then only cut into metal wassat So there is nothing surprising in these sales to the Chinese - no. Problems in their development of technology. Copying here will not help.
    1. +6
      30 June 2017 08: 13
      what And if you look at the problem a little from the other side? Having rejected his opinion about Ukraine. Purely abstract ... Maybe with the help of Soviet technology, the Chinese will succeed in what we did not succeed then?
      The Chinese, if again look at their space, do not copy, but use in further developments. Copying time for China has already passed. What we see in other branches. From cars to the latest gadgets ...
      God knows, I personally have some kind of twofold feeling. On the one hand, it’s a shame that we give back what we once spent our money on for nothing. And on the other, we keep open and invented by us for humanity. It's no secret that we simply forget most of our own inventions ... The mentality is probably like that ...
      1. 0
        1 July 2017 04: 29
        But where did you see this “copy time has passed”? Just like that, for the sake of a beautiful word? And dig deeper into the same auto industry and other trifles. That's just the point, they create nothing, invent nothing. The USSR could be proud of, breakthroughs, discoveries. China? These words are not applicable there. And their space program at the level of rye. Remember, remember, their photoshop video in the zero))). Shame in one word. And then they write, as in a recent article - "Why is our fleet lower than Russian. Russia could buy from us ...". Buy what? What they themselves sold? Here everyone buys, pulls, or technology from Ukraine for nothing. And they dare to have such an opinion). Strongly they are apparently zombified there, on supposedly patriotic achievements, "of their own."
        1. +1
          1 July 2017 07: 51
          Do you think the program of settlement of the moon by the Chinese “ryzhaki”? if the Chinese create their energy or n-1, and judging by their behavior, they are close to this, then how, in a good anecdote, the United States and Russia will look after .....
  9. DPN
    +2
    30 June 2017 08: 10
    Remember the 90 years when Russia did the same thing, fell Soviet plants and handed over Soviet technology to the West to its new friends in the person of the United States. , so what do we want from the capitalist country of Ukraine, the USA and the Yeltsin government managed to corrupt the Soviet people, now we are simply reaping its fruits.
    1. +3
      30 June 2017 09: 11
      Does anyone blame Ukraine for selling technology? A conversation about how to save that little that has not yet been lost .. And then, the technologies become obsolete ... And as quickly as we could not even dream of a few years ago .. A product that will turn into "trash" very quickly .. .. "Fruit" on the sunny counter of Privoz ...
  10. +4
    30 June 2017 09: 37
    Mace to replace Satan. Yes, the author is a worthy specialist on the topic.
    1. avt
      +1
      30 June 2017 11: 02
      Quote: Ken71
      . Yes, the author is a worthy specialist on the topic.

      bully Hyperspecialist. I read right and still cry bully
      Today we are talking about not only carrying out the average repair of this ship, but also upgrading it to the state of the first serial (second in a row). Such work will take two to three years,
      Why wait!? If
      “Block E” successfully passed ground tests, all three flight tests within the framework of L3 were successful. By 1974, about 20 “E blocks” were created in the Ukrainian SSR. ”
      bully Let them buy ready-made ones and fly ...... to Mom’s mink. The current Chinese are not suckers pedal bother with the meromania described in the article. For brevity, this is the most
      block E module L-3
      a one-way ticket to battle after putting into orbit, but how long the teukukosmonavt will last for it is an individual organism matter bully That in the USSR they perfectly understood, and if there were at least ONE chance, they would send it. Do not believe me? Believe Leonov, he is true indirectly about this, but he spoke in an interview. They say carrier -500 (Chelomei offered to finish the manned version) and even had N-1, but according to Leonov, now they’re kind of ready to fly one way. The article is a slag about prosralipolymers. What they could and by the way interested the Chinese in terms of REAL technologies in the flesh before the documentation from the department of the chief technologist. They have already raked out for sure. Immediately after the Maidan, when the Benei militants paid paid captured Yuzhmash’s archive.
    2. 0
      1 July 2017 07: 54
      you are so vain about the mace, it was cleaned of childhood diseases. this is not a hospital and charges on power from 2 to 10
  11. +6
    30 June 2017 10: 06
    In Ukraine now, as in Russia in 90, it’s even worse.
    We got them out of this waste pit, now we brush ourselves off.
    Will they be able to?
    1. +2
      30 June 2017 11: 01
      No, unfortunately (or fortunately) they will not be able to!
      Without the Russian language - they will not come out of the garden - they speak English, as we have - Chinese ...
      In addition - any Yuzhmash Wishlist is now only in dreams (dreams) - up to 70% of mid-level workers (in fact, the main driving force) at the enterprise are gone and there is nowhere to take ...
      Simple gas welders in Kuev - vacancies from 30 hryvnias and - silence ... The director of one medium-sized enterprise - in his car 000 times a week brings one grandfather (2 years) for work for 72-2 hours ... And grandfather - even a student can't find even a good salary ...
      Ukrainians, they are such Ukrainians ... the current now and all at once ... So their only way - to the agricultural sector - as prescribed by the classics - cherry orchards, vodka and tsibul!
  12. 0
    30 June 2017 11: 30
    It would not hurt to remember that Ukraine gave the founders of space technology: Korolev, Chelomeya, Glushko ...., and Yuzhmash - the developer of the Cyclone, Zenith ... rocket launchers ... intercontinental ballistic missiles, for example, the RS-20 (Satan), which is in service with Russia ....
    1. avt
      +5
      30 June 2017 13: 30
      Quote: alta
      It would not hurt to recall that Ukraine gave the founders of space technology

      bully Azochenway! Taki
      Quote: alta
      It would not hurt to remember that Ukraine

      I got the strong-willed decision of the Soviet leadership under the supervision of the USSR State Planning Committee instead of the automobile plant - this is Yuzhmash. For which the whole industry of the USSR worked in cooperation. So buy yourself a rooster and spin the beits for him for what sho Ukraine occupation - the achressor has given something. We about these cockerels trailed, gave ... fed "along with the hamsters their singers from the pierostyle we loved. Beat yourself at the brain and do not fly here about, gave" a simple mumble like a rag-dog - there would be no USSR, there would be no Ukraine here stupidly no and all-yo-yo-yo. Yes, and only Hetman’s will remain with such a hat from her with raguli. By the way! An hour with a sip of the beer of freedom of you, who took Petsu from Israel with state visit to the guard of honor and the orchestra with “Schenevmerla” -Today in Lviv, “Shukhevychfest” coincided with the date of the 1941 massacre of Jews, Poles and Communists. Zdobuly European power. Refresh in
      Pogroms in Lviv in 1941: photo chronicles
      It will come in handy when you take Poros with an official visit once again - a “Cynical Bandera”, or there you will be Groysman.
      1. 0
        30 June 2017 19: 31
        Only first kick the waltzman out with the rest of the groysman and it will work! Otherwise, everything that is acquired by excessive labor will be stolen!
    2. 0
      30 June 2017 14: 34
      Quote: alta
      gave the founders of space technology

      Well done, confessing
      “Even if you are carrying a complete blizzard, carry it with the appearance that it is the ultimate truth.”

      Just honestly, isn't it nasty?
    3. 0
      30 June 2017 23: 49
      You confuse the gift of God with the scrambled eggs ... not Ukraine ... but the USSR gave outstanding designers and specialists ... and created the technique ...
    4. 0
      1 July 2017 07: 57
      not Ukraine, but community - the Soviet people
    5. 0
      2 July 2017 22: 08
      Not Ukraine gave, but Little Russia. This is about Korolev, Chelomey, Glushko. There was not yet Ukraine when they were born. And Little Russia is an integral part of the Russian Empire.
      It first.
      And secondly, Yuzhmash has never been the developer of the products you specified. They were developed at the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau, which is not at all Yuzhmash.
      So it would not hurt to know the materiel before lecturing others. ;)
  13. 0
    30 June 2017 11: 52
    The current kaklams will not have enough brains to understand the technology of the deceased highly developed civilization of the USSR.

    Russia is the only legal successor to the USSR, which means it has every right to trade in USSR technologies, unlike Ukraine.

    Design Bureau Yuzhnoye and Yuzhmash have always worked in close cooperation with other specialized enterprises of the USSR, they were led from the center, from Russia! Alone, based on the resources of Ukraine or the West, they won’t do anything - it’s trivial for them to get materials for construction - the descent module is not an “oak” rocket, the product is certainly more complex and complex. They will develop on paper and computer, but only the "aggressor" has materials
    1. 0
      1 July 2017 02: 09
      Quote: JonnyT
      the descent module is not an "oak" rocket, the product is certainly more complex, complex. They will develop on paper and computer, but only the "aggressor" has materials

      So block E is in KB ready now even for work! Can you at least understand this? Explain that professionals work in Yuzhnoye KB and smart people live here - it’s useless, I don’t even have to try, do I understand correctly ?!
      1. +1
        4 July 2017 17: 29
        Quote: Wowka
        So block E is in KB ready now even for work! Can you at least understand this? Explain that professionals work in Yuzhny KB and smart people live here

        Block e is already like more than 50 years worth.
        Is it weak to build a new one? Where will you get titanium and aluminum alloys? composites, electronics? Management system, life support system, etc., etc.?
        I do not argue that professionals work in Yuzhnoye Design Bureau, and the Ukrainian land can give birth to smart professionals in their field. Just now, the ball is ruled by kakly, who will sooner order to cut the finished blocks into color-ferrous metals than to use them for their intended purpose.
        Who for TK Yuzhnoye wrote TK on products? Whose scientists and engineers developed a viable product concept? That's right - the USSR. A huge country with huge resources, managed from Moscow, could not finish the construction. And now you are beating yourself in the chest in ruins and screaming about greatness and independence. Well, really funny
  14. 0
    30 June 2017 12: 02
    Quote: avaks111
    The sale of space technology is the path to the revival of the country!

    Unfortunately, the money from the sale of space technology is enough for very few people who are very close to these technologies. And the whole country cannot be revived with this money.
    In general, in Ukraine it is time to publish the book of the former secretary of the Dnepropetrovsk regional committee of the CPSU (b) L.I. Brezhnev called "Renaissance." In addition to jokes ... In this book, Leonid Ilyich spoke well about one chairman of a collective farm in Ukraine, to which he came with a check. This chairman, according to L.I. Brezhnev, followed him and answered all comments: “ZrobIm, Leonid Ilyich, zrobIm, Leonid Ilyich. He fooled his head, in short. And over time, nothing on this collective farm changed, and Brezhnev had to make organizational conclusions. Alas, the Soviet era has sunk into oblivion and now there are no people in Ukraine who at least know what and how to do.
  15. +1
    30 June 2017 13: 10
    Oh my God, things are not much better in space with the Russian Federation. They are putting pressure on launches in the market, I’m not talking about satellites because they are assembled in the Russian Federation only from imported components (I mean not military satellites). And what is the only East, such an epic, with a cut of funds. The family of the hangar pH at cost (here I’m not sure if I will be glad to correct it) is approaching European and American pH (competitive advantage is lost). There is a possibility that SpaceX will become a more successful project.
    Although, I hope that the developments on the hangar will give designers the necessary experience and on the basis of these developments they will create something really not bad.
    1. +1
      1 July 2017 15: 40
      In Russia, space is dealt with sequentially, all commercial contracts with ILS and Eurokot are scheduled for 15 launches until 2023, and Cosmotras, under the auspices of the Glavkosmos, continues to provide services for launching small spacecraft, the next start of the nanosatellite group is scheduled for July 14, import substitution of foreign components on satellites it is mainly focused on components manufactured in Ukraine, everything is normal with European components, stable relations with European companies Thales Alenia Space and Alcatel are ongoing in terms of supplying transceiver components to communication satellites, and at the same time, Russian analogues are being created that are ready for use in real satellites - Blagovest spacecraft series. The construction of the first stage has almost been completed at the Vostochny cosmodrome, a workplace has been prepared for the new Fregat RB, and the Soyuz-2 rocket is expected to arrive in August to start the winter launch company, and the delivery of the second rocket is scheduled for September. The construction of the second stage for the Angara rocket is planned in the second quarter of 2018. By this time, the construction of additional workshops for the production of the Angara URM will be completed in Omsk. The launch of the commercial version, under the auspices of ILS, Angara-1.2 will take place in 2020 after the end of flight tests of the rocket, the launch cost will be comparable with the best commercial offers on the market. Until 2025, the main commercial “horses” on the market will remain the Proton launch vehicle, up to the completion of flights of this carrier, and newly created on the basis of the Zenit launch vehicle - the SK launch vehicle known as Soyuz-5 or Sunkar, the first launch which is scheduled for 2021-2022 from Baikonur.
  16. 0
    30 June 2017 14: 29
    Not surprising.
  17. 0
    30 June 2017 14: 29
    And what, is there anything else not sold ?! More than doubtful. So, at best, a second-hand and no more.
    1. Mwg
      +1
      30 June 2017 14: 47
      It remains what was in tracing paper
  18. 0
    30 June 2017 14: 31
    space is not gentle to Ukraine, it is better to be a pop-up
  19. Mwg
    +1
    30 June 2017 14: 46
    "To prevent the" cry "of some particularly patriotic readers about the drain of Soviet technology by the" Svidomo ukronazists "to the potential" partner ", I want to send them to the launch video of the Chinese inhabited spacecraft. Watch carefully. Very instructive video." - everything is correct. BUT !! The fact that the Chinese will remain on the transferred level will remain, and what Ukraine will sell now will be transferred with subsequent developments. Here is a small but significant difference.
    We also had it in the 90s. In turn, all sorts of "partners" stood behind the iron, and drawings
  20. +1
    30 June 2017 15: 14
    You read and wonder. So did the Russians in Ukraine. And where does Bandera? Bandera is different from the Germans. Very different! For in Germany, scientists were appreciated, they were looking for new things. What are they doing in Ukraine? Looting and selling. What kind of science? What is the moon with the Chinese?
  21. +2
    30 June 2017 16: 53
    Ukrainians have already sold our information and molecular-electronic technologies. On the basis of these technologies, a number of enterprises of my State Institution (6 State Institution of General Directorate of MPI of the USSR) were created in Kiev, Khmelnitsky and Odessa. I am glad that I did not pass them the elements of State Identification "Password" for production. We kept everything at home. I have the honor.
  22. 0
    30 June 2017 19: 34
    What is discussed in the article is called legally "intellectual property". She has an owner who has the right to own and dispose of it. Under socialism and communism, this legal concept, category, was absent. What Korolev and the engineers of his design bureau owned was unknown. What took hold of the current privatizers. also unknown. The same thing is happening in Ukraine. You can be indignant in both cases with
    success, since the engineers who created and created this property,
    by itself, they won’t get anything. Only "effective managers" of Jewish nationality will benefit. In Russia, this has already been observed, but not advertised.
  23. +1
    30 June 2017 21: 56
    Quote: Author
    It is to replace this "Satan" came the "Mace".

    fool

    Afftorr anneals ....
    I have no words
    Quote: Author
    Lybide. This is the first Ukrainian geostationary satellite produced in Canada.

    wassat
    not "Lybеdy, and Lybid (Lybid)


    what
    author -> author -> author decide already. Do you have a moon or planet?
    it seems to be around the "planet" The moon rotates, and not around the sun
    ======================
    1. 0
      1 July 2017 04: 34
      All claims to the Chinese. How do they know. With their "serious" plans. People who will not soon enter orbit, and they attribute such ambitions to them, and they attribute it to them for about 15 years ...
      1. +2
        1 July 2017 05: 24
        Quote: AlexDARK
        All claims to the Chinese. How do they know. With their "serious" plans. People who will not soon enter orbit, and they attribute such ambitions to them, and they attribute it to them for about 15 years ...

        The Chinese are in full swing in orbit. Or are you talking about brothers with an independent?
    2. 0
      2 July 2017 22: 17
      author -> author -> author decide. Is the moon a satellite or a planet?

      How wrong you are, Antonson! You find fault with the little things. But in vain. Planet Earth? And ... a companion of the sun?
      But the real flaw of the article was not noticed. The author did not say anywhere that this block E was made in Yuzhny, this is clarified only from the comments. But this all changes! Even if there were Russian subcontractors and subcontractors from other republics, they apparently ordered the work by Yuzhny, bought it and paid for it from the funds allocated to it. So the "South" is not just a stranger, some royal apparatus, which happened to be in Ukraine, is going to sell its own. There is still a reason for discussion, but this completely changes the essence of the matter, is not it?
  24. 0
    30 June 2017 22: 06
    This same landing block was not developed by Yuzhmash. The drawings are obviously stored in RSC Energia in the Moscow Region. The Museum of Energy stores the model of the landing module.
    Quote: "In the 90s, it was we who sold the Soviet space technology to the Chinese. We, Russia. And we not only sold, but also trained these same tycoonauts in our training centers. We sold for a penny what cost us billions." Facts to the studio, please. Who, where, for how much, whose decision and who signed.
    In general, I have many doubts about the adequacy of this article.
    1. 0
      1 July 2017 02: 11
      Quote: Elijah1969
      The Museum of Energy stores the model of the landing module.

      And in the Dnieper itself, in Yuzhnoye Design Bureau, there is a ready-made block E. A fully working one, moreover.
      1. +2
        1 July 2017 03: 49
        Quote: Wowka
        And in the Dnieper itself, in Yuzhnoye Design Bureau, there is a ready-made block E. A fully working one, moreover.

        Do not tell tales. Each product of this kind has its own warranty period. I bet that, for example, the batteries on it have long fallen into disrepair. So, this is a well-preserved rarity, suitable as a stand at the "Exhibition of Past Achievements"
      2. 0
        1 July 2017 08: 11
        leave it (E) as a souvenir, if you remember what you could and what was delayed ....... and tell which contingent from southeast has left for Russia. nothing more to say.
        1. 0
          1 July 2017 11: 51
          laughing
          Why are you so angry?
          that
          Quote: Elijah1969

          This same landing block was not developed by Yuzhmash.

          that
          Quote: svp67

          Do not tell tales.

          what do you
          Quote: Lance
          leave it (E) for your memory, if you remember

          One claims with foam at the mouth in terms of “Obviously”, the other also beats himself in the chest with the words “I can bet”.
          And it directly touched you something. Why are you angry, gentlemen?
          Yes, block E is available, in the Dnieper, ready for battle)) Learn to rejoice for others, no matter what nationality wink or criticize specifically but not "obviously" "maybe" "I said so"
          1. +1
            1 July 2017 16: 04
            Quote: Wowka
            Yes, block E is available, in the Dnieper, ready for battle))

            Yeah ... Well, why tell tales, for so many DECADES from the moment of manufacture, it cannot be considered as fighting.
            Quote: Wowka
            Learn to be happy for others, no matter what nationality
            You can’t even imagine how MUCH CLOSE to me is the problem of YuzhMasha ... which you have renamed Pivdenne. But just no one thought that why he is "Southern"? Or rather, regarding what ...
            Quote: Wowka
            or criticize specifically but not "obviously" "maybe" "I said so"

            So one thing can be criticized - WE ruined this great enterprise. For the construction of which so much energy, energy was spent, with the life and prospects of which many very talented and hard-working people connected their lives and dreams.
            1. 0
              1 July 2017 19: 49
              You are a bit confused:
              Design Bureau "Southern" them. M.K. Yangelya - in Ukrainian, "southern" - "pivdenne."
              and Yuzhmash - this is somewhat different - State Enterprise "Production Association" Southern Machine-Building Plant "named after A. Makarov" (Yuzhmash).
              The equipment developed by the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau is carried out at the Yuzhmash plant.
              Yes, I agree, the enterprise (both) needs orders and work in full. There is still gunpowder in the powder flasks, if only it would not be too late. After the collapse of the USSR, the development of military products was suspended. But he is engaged in space. At the moment, there is work on military topics.
            2. 0
              1 July 2017 20: 53
              If of course you can understand in Ukrainian (although there are comments in Russian too), you can take a look at this short report. And there are young specialists, and development, and finished products, so to speak)))
              look, I think you will like it and will not be so skeptical about today's KB Yuzhnoe and Yuzhmash.

              it's just for you without any second thoughts))
              All this is very interesting to me, as well as to you. hi
          2. 0
            1 July 2017 16: 44
            this is not anger, but pity, there was a country, and what remains ..... E, which by and large is not needed even by China?
            1. 0
              1 July 2017 23: 50
              Quote: Lance
              E, which by and large is not needed even by China?

              would not be needed - would not be ordered
          3. 0
            4 July 2017 21: 22
            Why rejoice? You’re all, well, absolutely everything has gone awry, well, for this, don’t take zrad everywhere! Why, then, should someone rejoice in the pseudo-successes of Bandera Ukraine?
    2. The comment was deleted.
  25. +2
    1 July 2017 14: 13
    Quote: Wowka
    But block E was made just for peaceful space. And made perfectly. Now in KB Yuzhnoye stands in the museum, ready at least now for work. And the technology is all - for your information - stored and reproducible.

    The fact that block E is in the museum is undeniable. What is done perfectly is also. Ready at least now for work - believe me not to agree. This is an exhibit that has stood in the museum for 40 years. Are the technologies preserved and reproducible? "I do not believe"
    For 40 years, technologies other than those of the 70s have already appeared.
    A piece of paper can be saved - everything else is very, very unlikely. That is why the Americans can not reproduce the same technology of the 60s, which were then used to create the "Saturn 5"
    1. 0
      1 July 2017 21: 31
      unfortunately I can’t find a 2-year-old video from the design bureau, where a company specialist talks about this module, shows and talks about the degree of its readiness at the moment. very sorry.
  26. +1
    3 July 2017 10: 38
    While there is an opportunity .. We must take all the adequate frames to ourselves .. this is OURSELVES FROM the FRAME .. if we lose it will be a pity!
  27. 0
    3 July 2017 20: 31
    Quote: Wowka
    Although you got a little excited, calling them "barrels" and scrap metal without engines.

    I know what I'm talking about. I’ve been doing such "barrels" for the last four decades.
  28. 0
    4 July 2017 21: 18
    Nah no fucking sorry! Share! Zdokhla means zdokhla!
  29. 0
    7 July 2017 09: 02
    This “Satan” was replaced by the “Mace”.

    Dear author, you have a very bad classification of missiles.
    Satan is a liquid-fuel heavy silo-based ICBM. With maximum cast weight.
    Bulova - solid-fuel sea-based ICBMs. with a lower gross weight.
    One could replace the other only in the author’s head.
  30. 0
    21 December 2017 01: 32
    Dnipro "Civilian version" of the famous Soviet ballistic missile RS-20 (according to the NATO classification SS-18 Satan). One of the most powerful missiles in the world. This “Satan” was replaced by the “Mace”. It was produced at Yuzhmash ... For 16 years, 22 launches from Baikonur have been made. Abnormal one

    Did the “Mace” replace the “Satan”? For some reason, in my naivety, I thought that Sarmat should come to replace “Satan”

    Quote: Wowka
    In addition, the Design Bureau works in its own - so to speak - native element - military missile development. And as you probably know, in this area the design bureau was the best in the Union. What and how now - I think we will soon find out.

    Yes, KB was the best in the Union for Combat Missiles. But what is left of the design bureau and production? What kind of quarter-century has the CBJ brought to at least prototypes, not to mention the series? NOT ONE ROCKET. Almost everything ended at the project stage (preliminary or technical - not so important), now the KBY works as far as I remember with KSA. If they give money - maybe "Thunder" and bring it. But in any case, these are operational-tactical missiles. After what KB did earlier - strategic missiles - this is a trifle, maximum to support the pants. Now the same North Koreans make rockets, but the South "- alas, only dreams

    Quote: Wowka
    This is your Wishlist, no more. Do you at least read something clever or look on YouTube something other than "Americans have never been to the moon" negative

    Nevertheless, the comrade andj61 right in saying that
    Yuzhnoye and Yuzhmash completely did nothing 100%. A bunch of allies, a bunch of suppliers, a bunch of design bureaus with which we collaborated.

    This is actually so. And it concerned not only the products of KB "Southern". Products of Chelomey Design Bureau were also not 100% Russian. MIT products - too.

    Quote: Wowka
    That's not all. Look if you can

    And what, all the missiles you wrote were created from scratch in the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau without the participation of allies from Russia? Do not make me laugh. Even if you do not touch such details as control devices and the like - just look at the type of engine that was used in the same P-12. This is the RD-214 (8D59) engine designed Glushko produced in Russia.
    The same applies to other products. Some of which were not tested at all. e.g. R-56
    or the same "Lighthouse". Therefore, you should not come up with what was not. The cooperation was so dense that, in reality, each of the design bureaus could not make its product without allies from other republics, in particular the same Ukraine

    Quote: Wowka
    Regarding your question, unfortunately I can’t tell you what and to what extent the design bureau can do the same, but as far as I know, usually in all countries after a series of products the production lines are removed after a certain time. technologies remain on the basis of which, if necessary, a more perfect product can be created. It makes no sense to repeat these products, and even if only because for Ukraine such products as R-36M are simply not needed, as you understand yourself.

    You see. You will not be able to specify. And rightly so, that you can’t. And I can’t, especially in the details. But in particular, on all the missiles you indicated were at least engines designed and built at enterprises located on the territory of the Russian Federation. In particular, Yuzhmash will not be able to repeat strategic missiles now.
    Well, Ukraine would not mind getting a serious missile weapon, albeit not of the R-36M type, but it could not physically create it. All chains of allies are destroyed, and Ukraine is not able to repeat all the components on its territory.

    Quote: Wowka
    Quote: andj61
    and those missiles that can still produce are already outdated. Outdated even more than Russian

    Yes? Yo-ma-yo. Out of date? But what about this:

    Actually out of date. Work on the product 15A14, that is, the R-36M rocket, was started by decree of the USSR Council of Ministers on September 2, 1969. Her last modification - “Voivode” - work on it was started in 1983. It does not seem that the products created 30-50 years ago are still quite outdated? The technologies that were laid down in this complex allowed it to be in service quite a long time, but alas, now this is the past.

    Quote: Wowka

    As of May 2006, the Strategic Missile Forces included: 74 silo launchers with ICBMs R-36M UTTKh and R-36M2, each equipped with 10 warheads. As of 2016, 54 RS-20 units were in combat duty in two positional areas in Dombarovsky and Uzhur in the variant with separate individual guidance units, which are planned to be kept on combat duty until the early 2020s

    And it’s kind of like they’ve not yet come up with!

    In 2016, there were no longer 54 units. 46 remained. To date, there are 26 ...

    Quote: Wowka
    So block E is in KB ready now even for work! Can you at least understand this? Explain that professionals work in Yuzhnoye KB and smart people live here - it’s useless, I don’t even have to try, do I understand correctly ?!

    Do you seriously think that a product created 50 years ago and not having passed any tests is ready for work? Seriously? In KB stands LAYOUT of this block. . And as for the fact that smart people work and worked, no one doubts this

    Quote: Wowka
    unfortunately I can’t find a 2-year-old video from the design bureau, where a company specialist talks about this module, shows and talks about the degree of its readiness at the moment. very sorry.

    A specialist can tell anything. We also have such storytellers, they say that ears are fading. But there are no miracles.
    A 40-year-old product is no longer capable of anything. The degree of readiness of what usually stands in museums in KB is zero. And this applies not only to you, but also to us. The Museum of the Strategic Missile Forces in Balabanovo exhibited dozens of ballistic missiles. But these are no longer rockets. These are layouts. I am not saying that the equipment of this module is outdated. Believe the experience of the engineer. What was ultramodern in the early 70's (the latest fashion pop, as they say) is now a pile of lamps and circuit boards. No more. Not to mention the condition of the case

    Quote: Wowka
    look, I think you will like it and will not be so skeptical about today's KB Yuzhnoe and Yuzhmash.

    I looked. To be honest - the solid "we", "we", "we" ...
    Sometimes commentators simply give out wishful thinking, sometimes they distort, distorting the facts. Yes, there are young people, yes - they work, creating something either in AutoCADe or in some other program. The question is different - but where is the solution? Commentators say almost about the advanced positions of Ukraine in space exploration. But for now, something the facts say are completely different. That young designer can make a reusable spaceship at least one, at least a dozen. With a different depth of study. But when you can’t check your own achievements, it’s called “work on the table”. Moreover, the Ukrainian leadership itself sawed off the branch on which it sat, breaking relations with Russia. The result is obvious and "on the face." The widely publicized Cyclone-4 did not fly; moreover, the EMNIP exploded at the cosmodrome in Brazil, destroying the launch. Talk about a joint spaceport with Canada remained talk. One of the deputies of the General spoke with aspiration about the deliveries to the United States of the first stages of launch vehicles. Yeah, the Americans bought NK-33 engines from us, Yuzhmash remade them under Antares and ....
    And as a result of 5 launches, one was with an explosion at the start. After that, the Americans “thanked” their Ukrainian partners and began to purchase engines already adapted for their rocket directly in Russia. It was ridiculous to hear the colonel broadcasting that soon they would achieve that surveillance from space would be almost online. The Americans have not achieved this yet, so are we, and in Ukraine it is in the near future.
    I remember the old Soviet film "Taming the Fire", the hero of the year at the construction of either an automobile plant or Magnitogorsk listening to a lecture on space and asking the lecturer: "We have a plan to fly to the moon in this five-year plan"? So here
  31. 0
    19 February 2018 18: 38
    Ukrainians in their image, for pennies are ready to sell their mother ...
  32. 0
    25 February 2018 20: 46
    Article is nonsense. Wet dreams on the topic of what else to sell, convincing yourself that this stuff is priceless.