Submarine armament replenished with anti-aircraft missiles

The German company Diehl Defense presents a unique IDAS anti-aircraft missile system, with which submarines will be able to hit air targets while under water.

The unique IDAS (Interactive Defense and Attack System for Submarines) system will close the current gap in the defense of submarines. The IDAS rocket will allow the destruction of a dangerous air enemy, which is dangerous to submarines and is invulnerable to submarines. Optimization has been carried out that will allow subsonic rockets to hit slow targets, such as anti-submarine helicopters, which have increased vulnerability during low-altitude flights with the released sonar. The transport and launch container includes four IDAS missiles. The container itself is located in a standard torpedo tube. After launching from it, the rocket pierces the water column and takes off above its surface, spreading its wings and launching the rocket engine.

The creators of IDAS were able to solve the key problem - the operation of the power plant in various environments. During the tests, the rocket showed a fairly stable operation of its engines, rapid acceleration to subsonic speeds with a firing range of up to twenty kilometers. Another problem is the preservation of the fiber optic channel to control the rocket at the time of its exit from the water. Initially, the possibility of using an autonomous infrared homing head was considered, but the fiber optic channel has greater reliability and accuracy of firing, making it possible to identify the target and assess the tactical situation. However, it does not exclude the use of other systems, such as the passive sonar of a submarine, which will allow to detect helicopters, localizing the ripple effect of their propellers.

Adopting anti-aircraft missiles for submarines will change the balance of naval forces. Until now, submarines had only conditional protection against air threats — a large depth or several man-portable air defense systems. This made it possible to conduct an unpunished search for submarines at low altitudes, hitting them on the surface without fear of retaliation.

Comments

[Eugene]

It seems that similar developments were also underway in our country.
Something I didn’t quite understand about the target detection technique. And I wonder what the maximum launch depth is.

[almost demobil]

Eugene
"... the use of other systems, such as passive sonar of a submarine, which will allow the detection of helicopters by localizing the ripple effect of their propellers, is not excluded."
Apparently the answer is here. A boat detects a helicopter in a passive channel, launches a rocket along a bearing, and then controls the optical cable as in old MANPADS. The missile allows for subsonic time.

[Eugene]

Thank you, you are probably right, but IMHO aircraft like Orion and Tu-142 for the submarine are more serious opponents, but nothing is said about the counteraction ..

[almost demobil]

In the operational plan, a helicopter from an aircraft carrier or a BOD is more often used, although you can deal with them.

[Civil]

what about hockey

[timhelmet]

Competently invented. Again, Germany. The cars are high-quality, but I don’t know the weapons (especially the supernova, for various environments).

[Dart weyder]

yes - progress is not worth it, although probably the development was carried out by many countries, because the nuclear submarines were too vulnerable to the same helicopter, the question is interesting, and the implementation of the project, though it is interesting that there is something like this in the USA and Russia, can anyone hear that ?! ????????????????????? they definitely had to take care of their nuclear missile carriers a long time ago!

[dodil]

Again, we are waiting for the views of authorities, in the person of Murano))

[black_eagle]

What can I say, the development is serious, before that the submarines had only one method of protection - stealth, it's time to learn how to "snap". And then the Il-38 and P3 Orion aircraft, which were put into service in the 60s, carry a huge danger, being in principle, so to speak, "obsolete"

[FREGATENKAPITAN]

The development is interesting ..... although not a new thought ....
Protection of submarines in an emergency situation (breakdown of the power plant, avoidance of tracking, etc.) .... To protect our submarines on the surface there are a couple of sets of "Arrows" or "Needles" maybe in the next underwater launch air defense systems will appear on the Borey and other projects ....

[Ascetic]

A little off topic but also deserves attention

There is one very “exotic”, but in turn promising way to carry out anti-aircraft missile defense on remote theater of war, and to forestall the enemy’s attempts to deliver both nuclear strikes and the use of conventional high-precision weapons. It can cause many conflicting opinions of designers and the military. It consists in the creation of a multipurpose nuclear missile defense missile defense with the installation of a promising air defense system on it, or the modernization of the submarine pr.667BDRM "Dolphin" and pr.955 "Borey". It is precisely these two projects that have been selected for refurbishment and refinement, since MAPLs of this purpose need even lower noise levels than SLBM carriers, and boats of precisely these projects are distinguished by exceptional quiet operation. 16 mine VPU for ICBM R-30 “Bulava” can be equipped with 16x8 UVPU B-204A for 128 SAM 48N6E3. An airtight hatch with a diameter of 3 m will be cut in front of the commander’s cabin, the niche of which will house the 92N6E2 radar (ship’s version of the S-400 SAM). This project can receive the classification of RPKPRO (missile submarine missile defense cruiser): with such submarines, the Russian Navy will be able to significantly increase its survivability in cases of "star raids" of anti-ship missiles, intercepting a third of the missiles, and facilitating the mission of the S-300 Fort-M surface ships and others. Such a boat will be able, receiving tactical information about the air situation, to emerge at any of the “hottest” points in the naval theater of operations and begin an instant and short-term operation of territorial air defense. But the most important purpose of these boats is far from standard air defense, but strategic missile defense, especially in the initial part of the ICBM flight. For this, the submarines are equipped with powerful SACs, and the naval aviation of the Air Force (IL-38, Tu-142) must spread the RSL in advance, so our RPKPRO can be within a radius of 200-300km from American SSBNs of the Ohio class, and immediately after the enemy volley make ascend and intercept the Trident-2 D5 SLBM on an ascending low-speed trajectory (30-70km). Here, the 48N6E3 anti-aircraft guided missile (improved S-300PMU-2 missile system) will have absolutely no problems: high maneuverability up to 35 units, a speed of 7,5M and warhead warhead weighing 150 kg, capable of releasing a direct hit against small targets. A whole group of such boats can be located along any coast of the United States, and at any moment is ready to shoot down echelons of American ICBMs both for external target designation and on their own using the multi-functional 92N6E2 radar. Such tactics in providing missile defense are much more sophisticated and more efficient than the American one, and can have enormous psychological and technical deterrence in the USA in future conflicts.

http://magov.net/blog/voenno-technologicheskaya_prognostika_konfliktov/5022.html

[ikrut]

An interesting concept. And if we take into account that already existing submarines are being used, which were planned for decommissioning, then in general - "tin".

[Eugene]

Can I ask you a question about low noise? I read the opposite, that Dolphins, on the contrary, are significantly noisy because of the hump. In borea EMNIP, the hump is also not small, unlike Ohio.

I do not consider engine noise.

[MURANO]

Quote: Eugene

that the Dolphins, on the contrary, are significantly noisy because of the hump

At patrol speeds, the hydrodynamic flow noises are negligible and are overridden by what you say, "engine noise."

Quote: Eugene

The borea EMNIP hump is also not small, unlike the same Ohio.

Ohio will have a bigger hump.

[755962]

Quote: Ascetic

A little off topic but also deserves attention

Very much on the topic. I hope this thought gets its continuation. Although and costly, at a glance.

[leon-iv]

Here hedge is nonsense. Look at her head for fun. After all, the most important quality of a submarine is secrecy. And how will TSU be implemented.

[VAF]

I agree, this is from the series ".... if my grandmother had ... she would be a grandfather"!

[Zerkalo]

The idea itself is great, because it is a helicopter that can slowly comb a given square and a lowered antenna, and it would seem that such a slow target is an ideal target for destruction, but there are many BUT,
as has already been announced, the depth of the launch of the container (because, if my memory serves me right, even sea-based ballistic missiles are launched from a maximum of 50m).
The second is the factor of unmasking, well, like a pop-up bubble when launching torpedoes during the Second World War.
Where will these missiles be located? in a torpedo bounce?

In general IMHO, we want more information, but thanks for the article!

[leon-iv]

Zerkalo,
there it’s just Rocket Launch = detection. The turntable is also armed with torpedoes.
But the submarine will not leave the doublet with torpedoes. So the helicopter will either leave for WWI or flop on the water or will be shot down with an extremely low probability.
And if I commanded a fleet or a group of NK, I would be very glad for such a change. Submarine Helicopter

[viruskvartirus]

I agree .... and the helicopter still needs to be found .... but as I did not see the answer .... and most importantly .... most likely the helicopter will find the boat first with all the consequences ...

[Torus]

Here, the key problem, as I understand it, is target designation. Before launching missiles, you need to see the target. It was because of this that this stupid fiber optic cable was required.

Until this issue is resolved, there is no special sense in the presence of missiles on a submarine.

[suharev-52]

It all starts with a "crazy" idea, and then it is brought to mind. So I would not so stubbornly declare that this is nonsense. Wait and see.

[Darn]

As an interesting idea, this is why they placed the missiles in the torpedo tube rather than the conning tower, but they can now work out possible scenarios for using these missiles. Yes, and purely psychologically now the helicopter crews will carefully look into the depths of the sea, and then suddenly the rocket will fly.

[SAVA555.IVANOV]

But didn’t such weapons exist before !!! ?? What are the bad people in MO !!! Neither mind nor imagination !!! 21 century !! Ah ah ah!! Annoyingly !! The West is often ahead of us.

[mox]

How the anti-aircraft gunner understands the concept. A missile with an infrared or photo-contrast homing head and a non-contact / contact detonation sensor.
But the question of target detection ??? Visually no, radar no, but how?
When launching on a torpedo, again noises arise, this increases the threat of detection and a torpedo or depth bomb is received in response.
Too little information in the article.

[Darn]

And how do you like this option of detecting a target using a drone.

[mox]

Communication drone with a submarine what Makar will be carried out?

[DEATH UWB]

so it’s like our needles are

[mox]

Igla MANPADS cannot stand. He can lie on board the floating vehicle. The launch is carried out by an anti-aircraft gunner, again from the surface position.

[VadimSt]

Quote: mox

Communication drone with a submarine what Makar will be carried out?

The question is right! Detection, determination, guidance are some questions.
Even ultra-long radio waves penetrate into the water column by no more than 20 meters. And how to define "friend or foe" underwater?

[NordOst16]

apl more expensive than a helicopter)))

[Bad_gr]

From a fixed submarine, in principle, it is possible to release a buoy studded with cameras. Instantly photographed everything around and immediately went under water (the boat pulled it back by the cord). If you buoy with your gyroscope, then figure out which side and at what range the helicopter flies is not a problem. He fired a torpedo, and aside from the boat, in order not to advertise its location, the torpedo shoots up an air defense missile. We have the torpedo-missiles in service (?), And here we can make them based on them.

Where am I mistaken?

[Andriuha077]

Such a development was in 1987, then buried.

[galeo88]

In my opinion, the submarine should do purely its own business ... For the missile carriers, it is necessary to build an AUG to cover the air in the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. Since launching one boat with 16 ballistic missiles is simply stupid. A type "Oscar 2" to include in the AUG and for the protection of coastal zones. All from the sea there is no passage to us, at least from the North, with capacities in the country, the same can be done at the Pacific Fleet soon. Then we can talk about a strong Russian fleet. Well, about the air defense system for submarines is complete nonsense, it would be necessary if she alone walks close to the shores of the "enemy", but then her air defense system is insignificant in countering the enemy's air force. In this case, it was possible to stuff the S-300F into the Typhoons.