Journalists criticized the new "Kalashnikov"

197
Russian media continue to criticize the AK-12 Kalashnikov assault rifle, which is the pride of the Izhevsk arms factory. AK-12 should change the outdated AK-74. Although the new model is legendary weapons as if it has an improved design, the machine does not pull on the declared “fifth generation”.

The AK-12 design is equipped with a Picatinny rail, a special attachment device for additional equipment, but only those who have never seen American M-16, Israeli Negev, or products of German gunsmiths will be surprised. Many media outlets ask themselves whether such features as its versatility (using a machine, both left-handed and right-handed), one-handed control, “softening” returns, the presence of new stores with an increased number of cartridges, are enough to consider AK-12 automatic as the fifth generations.

The official presentation of the new "Kalashnikov" was held last Monday. According to Maxim Kuzyuk, General Director of Izhmash, the main goal of the developers was to create a simple and reliable machine with the same tasks and new requirements.

He is offended by Russian journalists, as over time, articles appear in the press that contain disrespectful statements addressed to AK-12. For example, the AK-12 submachine gun was called a bluff, with which Kuzuk does not agree, saying that "this is not a bluff, it is a real weapon."

The “bluff” new “Kalashnikov” in the media began to be called because of the newspaper “Izvestia”. An article appeared in it about the dissatisfaction of the Ministry of Defense with a new machine gun, which was entitled as “The draft of the new machine gun turned out to be a bluff.” After that, the press attributed this unflattering characteristic to the military department, which often criticizes military developers. But in fairness it should be noted that the representatives of the Ministry of Defense did not publicly pronounce the word “bluff” in relation to the machine gun.

Nevertheless, the press states that the AK-12 is a rather crude development, requiring serious factory and military tests. Photos AK-12, which appeared in the press, also indicate that there is nothing special in it that would call it a fifth-generation machine gun. The novelty of the weapon is still in doubt. At the small arms demonstration held in 2011, organized for members of the Military Industrial Commission under the Russian government and the leadership of the Ground Forces in Klimovsk, a new assault rifle was not presented at the Izhmash stand. Some journalists believe that his absence can hardly be explained by special secrecy, “it’s just, I suppose, there’s nothing to brag about.”

No wonder the Ministry of Defense did not report on the purchase of AK-12, only the Interior Ministry became interested in the new Kalashnikovs. In general, "Izhmash" can not count on the state order from the military department in relation to the AK, because they said that in the near future, the Ministry of Defense is not going to buy machine guns. They explained this by the fact that there are stocks of AK-74 in the warehouses, which are ten times higher than the needs of the Russian army.

Journalists also believe that the huge stocks of machine guns will slow down the process of modernization, since it requires the creation of a breakthrough, qualitatively new small arms. Whether such an AK-12 is a question. Talking about a fifth-generation machine is only a risky advertising move.
197 comments
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  1. Insurgent
    +2
    18 February 2012 08: 56
    So if all sorts of popovkins, Makarov incompetent generals themselves give such comments to the media,
    1. Dimitrxnumx
      +15
      18 February 2012 14: 08
      I think they give comments early. Let the manufacturer fine-tune the machine! And then MO said the old Kalash did not suit, did they want to instantly get a new one, ready to go into mass production? They created the machine, let them bring it to mind, Izhmash himself said that it takes time until 2013 to refine the quality. Don't bluff prematurely. I believe in the Power of Russian Weapons.
      1. +3
        19 February 2012 11: 15
        Quote: Dimitr77
        I believe in the Power of Russian Weapons.


        don’t be foolish .. weapons are not a religion to believe in it ... only after using a new model in the field, and best of all in combat, it will be possible to talk about whether this model is suitable for anything ... from the military I have not heard a single word about the new machine ... while there is a shameful fuss of incompetent people and an air shock without any specific figures and facts ..
      2. +5
        19 February 2012 11: 29
        "Izvestia" is already slowly acquiring a household connotation, then they fiddled with badminton, either by accident or deliberately. And now they are attached to the "Kalash". Some "shurnashlyushki" have a feeling that there is no homeland, no flag, no conscience. They probably adopt the experience of trolls or just a custom article. Sometimes one gets the impression that the collapse of Russia would be a holiday for some print media. It is useless to call on their conscience, there is simply no conscience. And the biggest discovery for me was that some print and Internet publications themselves hire trolls in order to attract readers, and this does not go into any gate. How can you not love yourself in order to slander your homeland, which has raised, at the very least, poorly, but still raised. In recent years, nature tore off the masks from everyone and began to show people to the people as they are. It is time for the Russian people, and this is the majority, who love their Motherland very much, to declare a "boycott" to home-grown spiteful critics and grant suckers. And now let them prove themselves that they do not receive grants from the State Department, otherwise they are used to throwing out some nonsense without any evidence and making them justify themselves. It's time to switch roles. Moreover, the moment of truth is coming for the whole World.
      3. KASKAD
        -8
        19 February 2012 14: 56
        You can make candy out of shit, but this candy will be out of shit. As from the age of 47 there wasn’t anything new and couldn’t have worked with the Belgians on the FN SCAR and really did something new, and again shitty quality stamping clumsy not an ergonomic butt design, mediocre accuracy and poor sights, but there is and they finally made the thumb translator a plus, which is true that they have been used on normal weapons since the 60s, they also stole the shutter’s layout from the ball so they could put the shutter handles on the right and on the left.
        1. 0
          11 October 2013 21: 51
          You personally didn’t shoot from the AK-12, and therefore you have no right to say that about him
      4. predator
        +1
        25 February 2012 19: 01
        no one else was holding it, especially not firing from the AK-12, but they had already begun to blame! Of course, designers will bring to mind!
        1. 0
          11 October 2013 21: 53
          That's right! These couch experts do not know anything about the shooter, but they pose as arch-engineers
    2. dmitri076
      0
      18 February 2012 14: 09
      "So if all sorts of priest's, Makarov's mediocre generals themselves give such comments in the media" - this is a question for the one who appointed all these "generals"! yes, to him himself ... lol again, the journalists are to blame for all the sins .... it is they, the agents of "world imperialism", who do not allow the defense industry to cheat their own people ... "directors" are already quite morose and consider their own people, among which a sea of ​​experienced and knowledgeable people, for "biomass "which you can" suck in "anything you want ... I already wrote on this site - the whole topic of" New Kalashnikov "smacks of another swindle ... added a few little things and called it" 5th generation ".... and laughter and it's a sin ... many can compare with Western models themselves ... the main thing is that the 5th generation fighter does not turn out the same ... wait, sir ..
      1. +8
        18 February 2012 15: 43
        For once, I agree with the opinion of dmitri076! Well, how much can you pass off nonsense for "numbing analogs in the world" and similar loud epithets! What was presented is just Customizing the old machine. Such improvements should have been done 20 years ago.
        1. -1
          20 February 2012 21: 52
          Quote: dmitreach
          Well, how much can you pass off nonsense for "numbing analogs in the world" and similar loud epithets! What was presented is just Customizing the old machine. Such improvements should have been done 20 years ago.

          +100
        2. 0
          11 October 2013 21: 54
          What do you understand about this?
      2. fktrctqxbr
        +2
        18 February 2012 15: 49
        Absolutely agree[/ u]. And as true patriots we will believe in the miracle of our defense. good
      3. prunx
        +7
        18 February 2012 17: 55
        dmitri076and if, say, the T-50 turns out to be a bluff, then will you be very happy or not? Well, agree, you come here to gloat in the hope that it will make you feel better. Say, the native (Ukrainian) defense complex cannot please at all with anything, at least it would have been worse for the mosque, or to create the appearance of decline at the expense of your and your colleagues - ukrotrolls. And if the AK-12 fails, then this news will generally fall into a life-giving balm on the Svidomo darling, exhausted by continuous failures. Is not it? lol
        1. +3
          18 February 2012 23: 01
          Good girl, right on the impudent red face! :))))
    3. Artemka
      0
      18 February 2012 14: 26
      http://www.pic4you.ru/16054/1725330/
      By the way, another photo of the AK-12.
    4. fktrctqxbr
      -10
      18 February 2012 15: 18
      I completely agree with the Moscow Region, the media and the author of the article.
      And about the journalistic order that I read in comments. That I want to say - that it is NOT NECESSARY for us to be considered fools. Palms off the bullshit and give it out, at face value, on the part of the military-industrial complex.
      One must always face the truth, if the AK12 does not match the quality, then it does not match. And do not look here for the guilty among the commission of the Moscow Region, journalists. It is necessary to make engineers of the military-industrial complex think and not just get paid and be offended, because people are telling the truth to their eyes. sad am
      1. +14
        18 February 2012 22: 46
        What "quality does not correspond"? The quality of the fantasies of authors who have never held a weapon in their hands? what "people" and what "truth are they"? "Truth" of impressions after viewing photos ?? Well, why wag your tongue in vain. Here the tests will pass, there will be SPECIFIC reviews of those who tested, specific characteristics - then you will sprinkle saliva if you want.
        Although, of course, all you have is one thing - just to liquidate it.
        1. fktrctqxbr
          +5
          19 February 2012 03: 23
          I work for an enterprise where they are responsible for quality. And conflicts there are common, due to the fact that people work carelessly. And there are no concessions to anyone. Hence, there are always orders and a good salary. And if all the breeders wanted, forgiven, then it would have long gone bankrupt.

          That's the same thing we have with the military-industrial complex now, we forgive jelly, and at the "X" hour we have in our hands not a weapon, but metal. But let's remember 08.08.08, the tanks did not even reach the place of their combat purpose and broke. And now tell me how to be, who to blame, those who are at war with them or those who make them. There is only one conclusion: the mentality of the defense industry must be broken like a fish ridge sad sad sad sad sad
          1. +2
            19 February 2012 11: 48
            Where did you fight with these weapons or tanks? There are more than enough specialists "on the lookout". Judging by the nickname "abracadabrist", i.e. do not care and do something qualitatively a person who has a mess in his head simply cannot. I worked in Oboronka and now my son is working. Oboronka has such quality requirements that you never dreamed of. Experimental samples are another matter (there are miscalculations, and trials, and mistakes, where without it), then only those who do nothing or are an expert "in spite" do not make mistakes.
      2. 0
        11 October 2013 21: 57
        You know the AK-12 only from photographs, and therefore you cannot judge the AK-12
    5. +6
      19 February 2012 02: 28
      I support! And Rogozin is right - from publicity in such matters ..... there is already more harm!
    6. beech
      +1
      19 February 2012 08: 55
      as soon as they are kept in the army
    7. 0
      19 February 2012 20: 41
      It's strange, like the topic of Kalash has already been discussed - http://topwar.ru/11273-ak-12-popolnenie-v-semeystve-kalashnikovyh.html
  2. Brother Sarych
    +41
    18 February 2012 09: 07
    In general, the situation is not entirely clear - one thing is clear that the current situation smells bad and very big money is at stake!
    For no reason, suddenly a statement appeared that the AK was worthless and was not needed by anyone - okay, maybe the warehouses weren’t empty, that’s understandable ...
    There is a demand that a new weapon is needed that meets modern requirements, though no one exactly indicates these very requirements - it’s not very clear ...
    The main manufacturing plant begins to boil and after a couple of months announces a new machine - it is clear that the men have no other way out in this situation, no matter what considerations they come from ...
    Maybe the great Grabin could have created new super-guns in a month and a half, but here it’s clear that we can only talk about a preliminary sample that needs to be brought up and brought up ...
    the main customer immediately rejects the new machine as it does not meet the established requirements, and again again does not particularly specify these same requirements ...
    Along the way, a campaign in the press - and these characters would like to get money for their own trip to the toilet ...
    1. +12
      18 February 2012 09: 18
      Plus! Indeed, once again uncontrolled diarrhea from the mouths of the fathers-generals! More than once, in my opinion, it has been said that it is indecent for them to do so, but they are again there too. They crap, spat on and .... all that? The plant is trying to give out a new assault rifle with a bang, and it is clear that from the long-term dominance in the minds of our designers, the concept of an AK assault rifle will naturally not instantly result in a breakthrough in automatic weapons. They gathered, sat quietly, discussed, indicated directions, and calmly parted without any pressure. So difficult?
      1. +6
        18 February 2012 11: 21
        Correctly! And even more so, journalists ... As experience shows, journalists are not very versed in the issues they write about (they are dark people ... of course, there are exceptions, I even know that, but they are rare). One must ask the soldiers, the special forces who use it, the workers who produce it. And the generals ... well, I don’t like weapons - they laid out clearly and professionally recommendations that are required, conditions were given ... Indeed, why bother to the whole world?
        ... Or is it preparation for something? - such as large purchases abroad? (But this is again my conspiracy theory ...)
        1. +1
          18 February 2012 11: 42
          great grabine

          I saw in your comment an unfamiliar surname to me (although I don’t know much of them already). He joked on the Internet, it turns out that a man is very outstanding ahead of his time.
          Thanks for the information.
          1. Sergh
            +8
            18 February 2012 12: 11
            Guys, and not the machinations, is it bourgeois provocations or a run over to our military-industrial complex by the media, which would at least temporarily slow down any military production. Well, like, the usual stuffing, a ride-no-ride does not matter, but who will bite? It seems to me so, Makarov doesn’t have to persuade him for a long time, he himself is sometimes the initiator.
            1. +4
              19 February 2012 02: 31
              Or maybe so! Only history teaches: Russia NEVER lives up to the expectations of its enemies !! tongue
        2. 0
          18 February 2012 16: 04
          Uhalus, it’s better to poke his zhurnolamery and MO into this than the next "Tsykoshvili" And to do "ku", as in the film Kin-dza-dza, before the next "appearance" of Izhmash, is disgusting. Especially if this phenomenon objectively corresponds to the 90s, the last century.
      2. 0
        18 February 2012 16: 01
        IrOqUoIs, dear, so can you explain why there is such a super-new?
      3. 0
        7 March 2012 16: 42
        In fact, the generals-vilification as soon as something obscene that will cause damage to the Motherland (political or economic) must be driven away without the right to continue serving and deprived of military ranks and pensions, as enemies of the people and traitors to the Motherland. If something does not suit you in any "product", say it quietly, in a working order, voice your wishes for the same "product" - it will be businesslike and without unnecessary fuss and unnecessary squealing of pigs. And whoever paraffinizes the products of the military-industrial complex or the country's politics from the high stands are prostitutes, who were bought out with giblets for 30 pieces of silver. am
      4. SAFON 1
        0
        12 November 2013 18: 22
        It's crappy trying! Since 1957 he has been trying, pushing, and the result is always shitty! on the basis of the AK they screwed up "Vepr", y - the AK-15, there are still a bunch of all sorts of nishtyaks based on the AK, but stupid weighing with flashlights and lasers does not update the model, only makes it heavier!
    2. +7
      18 February 2012 15: 58
      Brother Sarych, what is there to demand? The machine gun is not a fighter, everything is relatively clear there. Unit cost, weight, accuracy, reliability, field service, ergonomics.
      Open your eyes to the end! What they did with this "unparalleled miracle machine", many did in the last decade!
      But the weight can be significantly reduced, the grips to make it "like a native" in the hand, especially in the mud! A magazine reset button under your finger, sending a cartridge with your left hand - all this is not really difficult! For this, the New Age is needed! (at least to Izhmash)
      Here you can explain why there is super new?
      Look at what kind of body kit they have been selling for a long time, for example, here (though I didn't find it there for a Kalash) http://store.magpul.com/prod_detail_list/59. In our country, as is customary from century to century, in order to give birth to something new, it is necessary that "thunder has struck." It's a shame and a shame. And the Izhmashevsk engineers need to upgrade their conscience and not call it new, something that IS NOT. Enough of people "behind the mind of inferior" to count.
      1. 0
        19 February 2012 00: 03
        well, if this is not a fighter, then we expect from you tomorrow a new model with "given parameters", and it will make sense to discuss the ak-12 when it passes all the tests and improvements
      2. Brother Sarych
        +2
        19 February 2012 10: 32
        In another place, I already wrote that while for me personally it is generally not clear what exactly is new there! And in general, will it not damage the new reliability!
        I haven’t written anywhere that a super-weapon was created, and everyone who just threw a sidelong glance in his direction should be ostracized - the essence is completely different!
        It is unclear what the hell the customer needs, that he is so wandering at such a high level - there are requirements, what do you want to have and for what purposes? Are they framed on paper? Competition announced? If not, then why are you driving the wave?
        Visually, the new machine worries me - in my opinion it will not be reliable, but I saw only a photo ...
        1. +3
          19 February 2012 17: 29
          Brother Sarych, I think this is the initiative of Izhmash. So to speak "coming from below". Against the background of the rejection of the obsolete, from the point of view of MO, versions They see all these "novelties" at exhibitions of weapons, so they did it in the image and likeness. Another question is that the "council of wise pensioners" at Izhmash, according to the old tradition, decided to trumpet the whole world about the new, but they got the opposite effect. But this is my IMHO, I do not pretend to be true.
    3. Indigo
      +2
      18 February 2012 16: 30
      I can only add that Ragozin banned the debate between the Moscow Region and the military-industrial complex in the press regarding armaments and everything connected with this ....
      1. +2
        18 February 2012 21: 35
        Greetings to Indigo !!! I also wanted to write about it! Only I watch everything unchanged ... Reply to the commander: - That's right !, and do it my own way.
        1. Indigo
          +1
          20 February 2012 00: 54
          Hello to you Diman !!!
          But for - so precisely and make it your own way - to tear mercilessly and mercilessly, up to dismissal. The hope is warm that D. Rogozin has been given such powers.
    4. +3
      19 February 2012 13: 01
      What touches me especially is that our journalists are specialists in all sectors of the national economy. One newspaperwoman should write a negative about something new, as it is immediately replicated by other publications. Still - such a sensation: new, and no longer needed. Faster typing - people pick up. But in reality, they’ll delve into the problem and analyze the new product, comparing all the pros and cons — they cannot do this. Better yapping around the corner. what
  3. +18
    18 February 2012 09: 11
    It’s time to get used to the fact that if “experts” from the journalistic fraternity appear before the Defense Ministry makes a decision to purchase one or another weapon, then this is a clear order and, often. - provocative! Do not rush, friends, to punish right or left those involved in the procurement decisions in the Armed Forces!
    1. +12
      18 February 2012 09: 26
      I agree.
      Nevertheless, they know that journalism is just those who use AK-12 and will use it, that they know everything about everything and this is the last resort.
      And about honesty and not bribery and we are not talking fellow
      Well, plus everything - do they want to see a wunder waffe in such a short time ?!
      It is said - is being tested !!!
      1. +5
        18 February 2012 09: 32
        Pharao7766,
        I will gladly support your conclusions, Maxim! good
      2. black_eagle
        +6
        18 February 2012 11: 05
        Yes, for the adoption of the test, the new model will have serious ones, and the first of them will be at least at the level of the AK-74 (in terms of price-quality-reliability), and the fact that at the very first opportunity reporters interfere with shit so we’re already used to it)))))) and you don’t need to be led to it))))))
      3. dok
        0
        19 February 2012 21: 57
        I greet everyone. In my opinion, there is no need to rush in such matters,
        Quote: Pharao7766
        It is said - is being tested !!!
        good To the point.
        I have no doubt that at the end of the trials it will be a real Kalash. And for the fifth or sixth generation, all this is vanity.

    2. Dimani
      +21
      18 February 2012 10: 17
      hmm ... a proverb from the Soviet era is still relevant: There is no news in Pravda, and no truth in Izvestia ... what
      1. Altergo
        0
        29 March 2012 11: 36
        Yes, modern journalism is something.
  4. +6
    18 February 2012 09: 12
    "Despite the fact that the new model of the legendary weapon has a seemingly improved design, the assault rifle does not pull on the declared" fifth generation. "
    Well, the fifth generation liked the journalist. Now, if new socks are sewn for the army, they probably will also write that these are fifth-generation socks))) But the point is actually this:
    This is provocation and confusion of concepts. It was said about the fifth generation of the Kalashnikov assault rifle, and not about the fifth generation assault rifle! (Ato everyone began to call the fifth generation - apparently, by analogy with the T-50 and F-22 - 5th generation airplanes) That is, the Ak-47 - 1 was first 2nd generation Ak, then AKm - XNUMXnd, etc.
  5. +11
    18 February 2012 09: 14
    And what do they want from a fifth generation submachine gun, invisibility to radar? Assault rifle - an assault rifle has certain characteristics dictated by the condition of use. From AK they expect only an increase in accuracy at a long distance, otherwise the machine is completely satisfied. If the accuracy is improved, then you can take it into service, if not, then sorry. Americans have long been trying to make a fifth generation rifle. XM-8 was not adopted due to the high cost, despite the convenience and futuristic design of the performance characteristics of this, they do not differ much from the M-16.
    1. +11
      18 February 2012 10: 42
      I completely agree with you ---- reliability ----- accuracy ------ ease of use ---- the ability to install any body kit ------- aiming range ----- and fuck some 5 -th generation, he himself will shoot chtoli?
      1. Virtor
        +7
        18 February 2012 11: 36
        The convenience of the infantryman and the OMON fighter are very different things .... The body kits are good for those who will not drag them along the fields of forests and mountains for months .... Who doesn’t have to shake their hands to clean all these holes and strips from dirt (Which almost no one will use) Reliability is sacred !!! But convenience at the expense of increasing weight and reducing reliability - see !!!
    2. black_eagle
      -1
      18 February 2012 11: 22
      What journalists want to see "in white shirts" will be able to shoot only in a "sterile room", a real machine gun should be a reliable weapon. However, the famous reliability of the AK may not be achieved, over the decades the army has become more mobile, the rear does not lag behind the main forces for several days.
  6. TAMERLAN
    +6
    18 February 2012 09: 48
    how can a journalist evaluate a weapon if it doesn’t have any access or concept --- just to get something and get grandmothers --- you can’t allow these grabbers to military objects and arsenals
    1. +6
      18 February 2012 10: 47
      and I agree with you --- there is nothing to listen to the magazine ---- they should experience military specialists who have real combat experience, and they will already say whether they are needed or not .....
      1. -3
        18 February 2012 16: 17
        That is when the journalist about shpiyon stones say, or politics is multiplied by zero by conducting a journalist investigation, or when they make public a "case" that makes "resonant" (thanks to the journalist's activity). You are grateful to them. But when things are called by their names in the military-industrial complex, what prevents them from recognizing the correctness of the journalist? Among them there are people who have served. And they happened to be in hot spots.
  7. +5
    18 February 2012 09: 50
    Russian media do not cease to criticize the new AK-12 Kalashnikov assault rifle, which is the pride of the Izhevsk arms factory. AK-12 should replace the obsolete AK-74. Despite the fact that the new model of the legendary weapon has a seemingly improved design, the machine does not pull on the declared “fifth generation”.
    - And on the basis of what are they blaming? they didn’t shoot, they didn’t even hold it in their hands, well, maybe there is an element of advertising in the words of the developer, as without this the product is after all, but in general all the information about AK12 as it looks like stuffing and speculation is no worse than with the T50, the only thing is true - this is what AK12 is, and what users will tell it
    Develop global criteria for classifying the generation of stars as hotels, then gossip will stop
    1. Altergo
      0
      29 March 2012 11: 39
      They gave money here and they’ll destroy it, everything is simple in our world.
  8. stasyan
    -7
    18 February 2012 09: 51
    I’m wondering why the media didn’t even mention that shops with any cartridge are suitable for a really new generation machine
    1. marauder
      +4
      18 February 2012 11: 08
      This is already too much. it can be made under different cartridges. but at the same time it is impossible to shoot with different cartridges winked
      You can still adapt different stores, including NATO ones, but the cartridge cannot be changed.
    2. Altergo
      0
      29 March 2012 11: 40
      You, my friend, complete ignorance of the mat part.
  9. soldat1945
    +16
    18 February 2012 09: 53
    These not-so-smart people from the Moscow Region say that the warehouses are full of AK-74, but that’s only the case with 70% of motorized rifle units have new AK-74s (a common people have an oar), which does not have a dovetail mount, and when you get night vision devices then you start frantically looking in the AK-74M company to attach it there and the company has to negotiate and change, the AK-74M is really in short supply if anyone serves, it is full of AKS-74 on which by the way there is also no body kit, and like me already wrote AK-74 with a wooden butt. So we are waiting for the new machine very much because the salary has become higher, you can buy foreign useful gadgets such as a caliber sight to buy so that you can install without troubles on the picantini. And about the accuracy of long-range combat, it may be subjective, but the conditions of modern combat with small arms are about 400 meters and even less, as a rule in a city or in very rough terrain, but at a given distance using frequent single fire (without firing) long bursts) AK-74M is a very effective weapon. The machine gun should not be a sniper rifle.
    1. +1
      19 February 2012 11: 25
      Quote: soldat1945
      it became possible to buy foreign useful gadgets such as a caliber sight to buy so that it could be installed without troubles on a picantini.


      is it not strange that the production of these not very complicated sights is still not organized in Russia? .. they say about modernization and rearmament at every corner, and sights of the pose-pose of the last century are still used in the vast majority? .. in Russia, as usual, they scream about global plans all the time and nobody wants to understand that the result is achieved mainly with such small, but important details and simple solutions: bars, sights, modern and reliable means of communication, etc. ..
      1. Novosibirsky
        -2
        19 February 2012 11: 44
        Quote: Krilion
        is it not strange that the release of these not very complicated sights is still not organized in Russia? .. they reiterate at every corner

        http://berserk711.livejournal.com/41630.html
      2. +3
        19 February 2012 11: 52
        In terms of scopes, we have a serious lag, our "Cabras" and other animal brethren are far behind their Western counterparts. Here is an example, "Cobra" is a very fragile sight, its capabilities as a sight are kept at the same level with unpretentious Westerners, but if in terms of functionality ours can still be recognized as good by the ears, then in the sense of "frugality" they really lag behind, for example "Eotech "at the same price, or even being somewhat more expensive, it lasts on one charge, without changing the batteries, about 500 hours of operation, and" Aimport "(or whatever it is, I have sclerosis in the name, who knows he will understand) generally holds 50000 (! ) hours of operation. I myself was surprised. Ours won't stand that much. In terms of optics and sights, we are still far behind. sad
        1. Novosibirsky
          -1
          19 February 2012 12: 22
          I will not argue. Apparently this is due to a general lag in electronics. Need to strive. Moreover, on their own, so that later, in war conditions, we should not hope for supplies, the enemy will not share.
          Oh poems! )))
          1. +1
            19 February 2012 12: 36
            Poet) Actually, I agree with you. In Europe, there is a certain division of labor, some make wonderful rifles, others mega optics, third excellent modules and accessories. It is not accurate, but it has developed under conditions of competition and capitalism, i.e. achieved success in def. areas of production. In which case, each country in Europe will do its job and what it does better, they won’t help us, but you shouldn’t hope for the optics of Kyrgyzstan or Azerbaijan (you can’t hope for something that’s not wink ).
        2. +1
          19 February 2012 14: 30
          Quote: StrategBV
          In terms of sights, we have a serious lag,

          "..... As RIA Novosti reported on February 17, Russian-made night optics (night sights, night vision devices, day-night systems), successfully competing with European and Asian counterparts, wins international tenders, is in demand and is purchased all over the world, but, alas, does not arouse much interest in the Russian Ministry of Defense, Viktor Bubentsov, a representative of a Russian company producing optical devices, told RIA Novosti on Friday.

          He said: “Over the past 2, our optics manufacturers, with the participation of Rosoboronexport, have won several large international tenders for the supply of tens of thousands of night vision devices. Now in the Indian tender, our optics is also on display. ”

          According to Bubentsov, Russian specialists have recently developed a unique night-sight, which is not inferior in its characteristics to the famous American Raptor (in some ways even superior to it). Bubentsov said that the sight passed state tests and is supplied to special units.

          Along with this, Bubentsov noted that at open auctions held by the Ministry of Defense, however, foreign optics are purchased. He added that the army behaves rather passively in such matters. According to him, there is a tendency to purchase imported devices. Bells considers this "wrong." He notes that orders from law enforcement agencies "are thirty times less than those that are exported ... 80% of our products go abroad."
          ...........................
          ............ At present, special units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs are competing with our day sights, which says a lot. ”

          Bubentsov also said: “It is clear that such leaders as Carl Zeiss AG, Schmidt & Bender (Germany) and Kahles (Austria) have existed for over a century. They have a huge history of development of optics. We have now come close to them. We have not reached the level of "Carl Zeiss", but our scope is not much inferior to them, and is 1,5-3 times cheaper ".........."
          http://topwar.ru/11482-ministerstvo-oborony-rf-ne-interesuetsya-konkurentosposob
          noy-i-nedorogoy-rossiyskoy-optikoy.html
          1. 0
            19 February 2012 14: 51
            Another typical example of how MO works with its manufacturer:

            "...... Speaking about the interest in the rifle abroad, Sorokin noted that the company entered the world market with the T-5000." We have orders for our rifle from foreign police units. There are also requests from foreign military departments, "- said the director general. According to him, interest in weapons is shown by South Africa, Australia, a number of European countries, in particular Italy." The CIS countries are showing great interest both for the needs of the army and for special anti-terrorist units. " - Sorokin continued.
            ___ At the same time, he stated that all attempts to introduce a rifle in the Russian army are still being blocked by the Ministry of Defense. "The Ministry of Defense has taken a specific position, they precisely prescribe the parameters of the Mannlicher SSG 08 rifle in their tenders, and when they put on competitive conditions such parameters that copy the length of Mannlicher up to a millimeter, weight up to a gram, it is impossible to bypass these things," Sorokin said. "There is an opinion that this is lobbying for a certain product, depriving a Russian manufacturer of the opportunity to participate in fair competitions," he added.
            ___ At the same time, according to Sorokin, following the results of comparative tests conducted by the Ministry of Defense "it became clear that we shoot the Mannlicher rifle in all full-time shooting, from the point of view of functionality we have a more equipped rifle" ...... "
            http://warfiles.ru/show-3058-specsluzhby-interesuyutsya-rossiyskoy-snayperskoy-v
            invkoy-t-5000.html
            1. Altergo
              0
              29 March 2012 11: 46
              If only in MO such guardians were sitting for their homeland.
  10. NovoSibirets
    +12
    18 February 2012 09: 57
    Journalists criticized ... Fairground clowns! Leontiev said correctly about them: "top specialists."
    A man works, gives birth without a technical assignment to a decent gun who will soon become excellent, and some cheap institute criticizes him! Yes, however, what can I say ...
    Take a hit, Maxim Vadimovich! Bring your "baby" to mind)) She will say her weighty word for you later!
    1. +6
      19 February 2012 01: 12
      Quote: NovoSibirets
      Journalists criticized ... Fairground clowns! Leontiev said correctly about them: "top specialists"


      How journalists create ducks
      Background. In one small, secret part, it was time to repair the shelter at the KP, where a place for recreation for reinforcement officers and a task force was reserved for the exercises. Then just in time for the next exercises, the command arrived with big stars and fucked up the commander for the fact that the OG officers were poking around various capters and technological premises. The unit commander decided to place ordinary soldier's beds in the far corridor of the KP for a view until they repaired the shelter that the head of this KP wildly did not like, but the order is the order. So they stood unnecessary in the corridor, annoying with their appearance the meticulous boss who was accustomed to order and staff culture.
      Now the story itself. One fine day, on some anniversary, journalists were brought to the unit to make a report. As it should be with the escorts from the upper headquarters. Everything went well until it touched the command post itself, with the ill-fated bunks in the corridor. This is a rather innocent situation. A colonel from the upper headquarters comes to the command post with a journalist brother, they are met by the aforementioned chief dissatisfied with the beds. The colonel, looking at this case and slightly "surprised" in a whisper, asked: "What is this ... a good idea" The head, who is angry with the whole world, decided to make an out of place, they say, we will hand over a hundred per night to the Moldovans-builders ... Colonel of course I understood, but the nimble paparazzi, greedy for fried sensations, quickly photographed everything, realized an article entitled: "On a secret facility of the RF Armed Forces, guest workers spend the night ..." What happened next .... Well, as always, they got everyone off again, the unit commander promised to rot the joker alive the head of the command post in an unfinished shelter, etc. Then they wrote refutations, threatened with courts, but the material had already come out ...

      The moral is simple for our smaller bosses to make rash statements in front of sharks that are fond of sensationalism ...
      So apparently a duck happened to reduce the military budget, now something similar happens with the AK-12. Then, as always, a refutation will appear that we said nothing of the kind ... But it will be too late
    2. +3
      19 February 2012 07: 59
      Journalists in arms, and not only in arms, understand how pigs are in oranges! They like cheap sensations, and often suck out information from their finger to raise their personal rating. And the fact that they are sold as prostitutes for money is not a secret at all
  11. +10
    18 February 2012 10: 26
    If the men said past Afghanistan and Chechnya and other conflicts, the sample should be corrected. And what this brother writes on the instructions of those who are very interested in purchasing imported weapons is clear to any normal person. A lot of money and custom Articles are just one way to compete. D.O. Rogozin is right a thousand times saying that everyone should do his own thing and think about the interests of the motherland, and not his own pocket.
    1. black_eagle
      +6
      18 February 2012 11: 11
      Right! Let’s also buy machines abroad, and everything about the engineering industry can be forgotten, thousands of guys with an engineering background will go outside, and then we’ll pay crazy money for maintenance of the overseas miracle weapons, no, I think it's easier to outweigh this bunch of corrupt journalists)))))
      1. +3
        18 February 2012 16: 22
        Tantrum - Stop it! Forums related to the military-industrial complex - read. CAREFULLY.
        In Moscow, a factory for the production of architectural sniper rifles was opened this year.
        The industry was bent in the 90s, and not now. It was when the vocational school system and mechanical engineering collapsed.
        The Beretta and Glock have been in service for a long time. They are better than domestic pistols.
        1. black_eagle
          +1
          18 February 2012 19: 07
          Yes, what a hysteria)))) One thing is the pistols for special forces, like an ultra-precise sniper rifle, and a completely different combined arms machine, this is a matter of national pride. The Americans, in principle, also do not disdain Hackler Kochi and other sweets for special forces, but the basis of the equipment of an ordinary soldier is only national weapons
          1. +1
            18 February 2012 23: 01
            and the belgian machine gun Minimi?
            national pride - it is certainly good. and right, especially in the defense industry. only when our native military-industrial complex hangs noodles for us and doesn’t offer a fork, but Comrade doesn’t need it. Serdyukov scold.
            Not cha, so to speak, blaming the mirror, since the mug is crooked.
            At the expense of the combined arms machine, it is said that the bins of the Motherland are bursting with quantity.
            1. black_eagle
              0
              18 February 2012 23: 18
              These bins can be well realized by the "poor" citizens of neighboring Asian, African and South American countries, but Russia simply must be at the forefront of progress
              PS and do not pay attention to the flag drinks
              1. 0
                19 February 2012 04: 31
                so it will be so when the new is approved. I just wanted Russian weapons to really be there again - it sounded loud and proud, and there was no reason for jokes.
                I support Klitschko! drinks
            2. 0
              19 February 2012 07: 49
              Quote: dmitreach
              At the expense of the combined arms machine, it is said that the bins of the Motherland are bursting with quantity.

              sell to those who want to buy them in the Russian Federation. Introduce a duty for these persons to periodically undergo retraining in local units - a ready-made national guard
        2. Brother Sarych
          0
          19 February 2012 10: 36
          If the industry was bent in the 90s, then now it’s a pipe in this regard in general, and the factory for the production of architectural rifles, I’m afraid, but exists only in your imagination - I hope you read about Koreiko and his experience?
          1. Novosibirsky
            -1
            19 February 2012 10: 40
            Quote: Brother Sarich
            and the factory for the production of architectural rifles, I'm afraid, but exists only in your imagination


            Do not be afraid! Exist!

            http://www.orsis.com/
            1. Brother Sarych
              +1
              19 February 2012 10: 44
              If Koreiko had the opportunity to create websites for his "enterprises", he would have amassed his millions much earlier ...
              I would have looked at this matter with my own eyes - then I’ll believe ...
              1. Novosibirsky
                -1
                19 February 2012 11: 32
                He who has ears, let him hear ...
        3. 0
          19 February 2012 23: 08
          Better how? How to shoot a pistol in a shooting gallery or as a military weapon, a question?
      2. Altergo
        0
        29 March 2012 11: 49
        It's time.
  12. Alex63
    +7
    18 February 2012 11: 11
    The anti-state policy pursued by Serdyukov and his entire gop company has long been known and understood by the entire Russian people - the glorification of Western weapons and their promotion to the Russian arms market, the rejection of Russian weapons and military equipment and, as a result, the ruin, bankruptcy and destruction of domestic defense enterprises. the department does not even enter into dialogue with the defense industry. Why can't the military discuss with manufacturers what weapons and equipment they need, set their own requirements, assign research institutes to develop new technologies, etc. I am not an expert in these matters, but even to make a frying pan with a non-stick coating, a whole staff of scientists worked, and here the armament of the Russian army and the security of our state are at stake. It is not clear why the Russian media supported Serdyukov? Or they are also more impressed by the picture: a Russian soldier in NATO uniform, armed with an M-16. Why not a sound or a gesture from Medvedev and Putin to all the freaks of Serdyukov? If Medvedev doesn’t care anymore - he is packing his bags and vacating a chair for Vovochka, then why is the future “popularly elected” silent? His position, as Prime Minister, is supposed to deal with Serdyukov and his gang. But there is no reaction. It means that Putin approves and supports the policy pursued by Serdyukov. Then how could he be allowed to participate in the election campaign. And further. Much has been said, written and filmed about Stalin's terror. But if in this way they dealt with ministers like Serdyukov, then I am in favor. Because the current humanism does not suit them for the future.
    1. -3
      18 February 2012 23: 05
      facts to the studio. prove that:
      1 military do not go on dialogue with the military-industrial complex
      2 do not put forward their requirements
      3 do not give tasks
      4 glorify the west
      5 our VPK does not steal.
      6 our VPK is absolutely the best in everything
    2. stasyan
      0
      19 February 2012 10: 51
      not only did you put Rogozin in charge of VPK?
      1. +1
        19 February 2012 17: 36
        Stas, you are like Dr. Watson. Well, not Holmes, he’s a Bloodhound! The presence of Rogozin indicates positive progress.
  13. +7
    18 February 2012 11: 12
    The fifth generation machine is:
    - barrel with a controlled thrust vector;
    - bullets with GPS navigation;
    - sight with a French thermal imager;
    - butt with mounted dynamic protection.
    Since these chips are not, it means not the fifth generation.
    1. Kudrev
      +5
      18 February 2012 13: 02
      :) You also forgot that the cruising speed of the bullet should be at least 3M, a digital BIUS and the ability for automatic machines (they are automatic, right?), To exchange tactical information between themselves in real time, and tell the fighter the most optimal procedure . Also, multi-caliber is introduced (well, that is, you connect a magazine with cartridges from M-16 - 5,56 mm, and the machine automatically rebuilds its caliber), and the ability to shoot from around the corner. What else? And yet, the ability to launch guided missiles through the barrel channel from both thermal and laser seekers - therefore, the laser is an integrated basic configuration. Guided grenades - of course. Yes, the machine must warn the owner about exposure to laser, thermal imager and optical sniper devices, as well as independently (automatically) fire shots with smoke or aerosol grenades to interfere. Is funny But if you think about it, then not everything is so ridiculous ... :)
      1. fktrctqxbr
        0
        18 February 2012 16: 15
        Yeah you guys are visionaries wink . God forbid, at least just assemble a high-quality machine.
      2. black_eagle
        +1
        18 February 2012 19: 37
        And a composting toilet is necessary, otherwise the magazines will start again, such a machine without basic amenities! lol
      3. +2
        18 February 2012 20: 17
        Kudrev, and add a belt from Gucci or Armani at worst !!!! fellow belay tongue
        1. black_eagle
          +2
          18 February 2012 20: 48
          What Gucci, aren't you a patriot? only Yudashkin, and Zvereva into the army, do hairstyles for conscripts wassat
  14. +9
    18 February 2012 11: 25
    The purpose of the AK (assault rifle) is not sports skeet shooting, but combat use, in conditions when fire with aiming occurs once in a thousand, if not in a larger ratio (I definitely don’t remember research data on the American army, there were data on the consumption of ammunition and it was summed up by the fact that shooting in battle is deliberately conducted in the "milk", not at the enemy, but in his direction). Those. It is not worth pushing hard for the sake of achieving such a goal, if new materials do not give this as a side effect.
    An experienced soldier, when firing from the AKS74 on the move, confidently hits running targets (distance 400 m), but in conditions when the "targets" do not return fire. At such a distance, with modern equipment, a soldier can only be hit by hitting vulnerable spots, pouring a hail of bullets or shrapnel, but it is useless to try to aim at the forehead.
    I would compare a Kalash with a wheel. You can practice using new materials and designs, but criticizing the "denseness" of the physical principle of work is strange fun.
    1. +2
      18 February 2012 11: 31
      so it’s true, only in counterterrorism operations, the shooting is still aimed, or am I wrong?
      1. 0
        18 February 2012 11: 49
        In the legends of modern exercises, words about counter-terrorism operations are often heard, but in reality - this is a large-scale clash with the use of all types of weapons. Does your cue mean the defeat of one terrorist in the crowd? Well, without application special equipment and don’t think about it. Universality is an outlet in some cases, but also reckoning with reliability and ease of use.
    2. _CAMOBAP_
      +3
      18 February 2012 13: 13
      The division of AK - and indeed of small arms - into "generations" in itself is completely meaningless, because starting with the Mosinskaya three-line and its contemporaries, and somewhat later - from about the 40s of the last century - automatic weapons, all dances are conducted around the principle work of automation (if there is one, and there are not so many of them), all kinds of body kits (sights, grenade launchers, handles, butts, etc.). Meanwhile, the main thing is that what determines the accuracy of shooting and lethal force - and this is the initial velocity of the bullet and its caliber - do not differ in principle from the analogous characteristics of the end of the year before last, the beginning of the last century. With some stretch, the "novelties" include the intermediate (between pistol and rifle) cartridge, developed in the first half of the last (!) Century. What is the PRINCIPAL difference between an anti-tank rifle of the times of World War II and a super-duper modern CWS?
      PS: Just take a look at the terms of reference issued by the Ministry of Defense for the development of a modern assault rifle or rifle. And is there anyway?
  15. Virtor
    +8
    18 February 2012 11: 26
    Alas, but I agree (this time) with the Ministry of Defense .... A reliable, not whimsical and a little UAZ will remain a UAZ, even if it is pasted over with plastic and a kenguryatnik is screwed on ... Everything that makes it heavier, more expensive, complicates the exploitation of a mass shooting product when this without increasing its direct shooting characteristics is a perversion (in the truest sense of the term) It seems to me that the AK12 (I did not hold it in my hands) is just such a case .... Just in hot cars, I thanked God and Mikhail Timofeevich for the reliability of my "Oars" "and all that I hated in the mountains is to reduce weight and increase the aiming range, or at least one thing)))) I believe that reducing the caliber when improving the ballistics (or at least saving), reducing the cartridge case (or abandoning it) when increasing the energy of the propelling substances (to increase the wearable ammunition), increase the length of the barrel, reduce the weight of the weapon (while maintaining the strength characteristics), reduce recoil and withdrawal from the line of sight ania + the presence of a regular small day / night sight - Here are the necessary characteristics of a fundamentally new weapon! If, at the same time, this weapon is not a demo sign of a fighter (Absence of metal), then it is very good))))
    1. +5
      18 February 2012 12: 25
      Here's the FN SCAR Mark 16 / Mark 17 - Special Forces Combat Assault Rifle

      this is FN SCAR Mark 16 (FN SCAR-L)

      this is FN SCAR Mark 17 (FN SCAR-H)
      FN SCAR rifles are equipped with an exhaust gas engine with a short stroke of a gas piston separate from the bolt frame, located in the exhaust block on the barrel. The butterfly valve has seven radial warriors, locking is carried out by the breech of the barrel. The receiver consists of two halves - the upper, in which the barrel and the bolt group are installed, and the lower, in which the store receiver and the trigger module are made. The lower half of the receiver is made of polymer, the upper is made of aluminum. The halves are interconnected by two transverse pins in the front and rear. Trunks are interchangeable, attached to the upper half of the receiver with two transverse bolts. Replacing the barrel requires a minimum of tools and takes several minutes. The trigger mechanism has a two-way lever translator fire / fuse, providing firing single shots or bursts. The queue length limiter is not provided in the USM FN SCAR. The cocking handle of the bolt can be installed on both the left and right sides of the weapon, for which there are corresponding slots on both sides of the upper part of the receiver. The rifle has a bolt stop mechanism that stops the bolt in the open position after all the cartridges in the magazine are used up. The shutter delay is turned off by a button on the left side of the weapon, above the store receiver. The magazine lock button is made on both sides of the weapon. The ejection of cartridges is carried out through a window on the right side of the receiver, behind which is a reflector of spent cartridges, allowing you to shoot from a rifle from the left shoulder. On the upper surface of the receiver, as well as on the forearm on the sides and bottom are guides of the Picatinny rail type for mounting sights and other accessories. The rifle is equipped with removable open sights, consisting of a folding range-adjustable diopter pillar and a folding front sight. In addition, any day or night sights with appropriate brackets can be mounted on the rifle. The stock of all FN SCAR rifle options is folding to the side. It is made of plastic and can be adjusted in length to adapt to each specific shooter. Additional accessories include a new 40mm grenade launcher and a removable front handle, inside the court there is a small two-legged bipod for shooting from the stop.

      It is assumed that in the foreseeable future, the Mk.16 and Mk.17 rifles will replace the "old" systems such as the 5.56mm M4 carbines and M16 rifles, as well as the 7.62mm M14 and Mk. 25 (sniper).

      And if you look, then nothing but modularity (replacing the bolt, barrel, bottom of the receiver with the receiver stores for a different caliber) and a larger skary weight does not differ from those rifles that should replace ...
      1. Virtor
        +1
        18 February 2012 21: 47
        In general, it seems to me that the idea of ​​modularity for ordinary infantry is deeply erroneous. Even the point here is not the lack of professionalism among draftees (War makes anyone professional or kills) It all comes down to the unit’s logistics - enormous troubles .... Obviously, mobility and Quartermaster discipline are one of the success of any, let alone network-centric warfare ... Everything that leads to complicating the operation of weapons and an increase in the list of components reduces the mobility of the unit. Everything that leads to an increase in wearable property reduces the amount of ammunition that a soldier has ... That is, simplicity (not to the detriment efficiency) guarantee of mobility - mobility guarantee of success))))
        1. 0
          19 February 2012 23: 33
          In principle, I agree, well, the Picatinny bar, a good grenade launcher to return the caliber of 7,62 and AK is a reliable machine that the most important thing is you watch the videos how the American soldiers are fighting in Afghanistan, the stories skip that in their hands in battles AK is strange
  16. +13
    18 February 2012 12: 05
    Men! Why are you, in fact, so worried about the next "competent" opinions of cheap clickers. Who writes that and most importantly how? Where are the links to the opinion of experts, the results of field tests? There is none of them. So what to talk about? I am much more concerned about the facts of the tradition of "prancing" the bandwagon before the press. The results of such "prancing" is an ordinary blow to the authority of the army and the Russian military-industrial complex. But what about the comprehensively prepared press conferences with the involvement of authoritative experts, professionals from the troops, and finally the press service of the Ministry of Defense itself. Not a single stripper has yet been removed over the horizon for causing obvious harm to the prestige and image of their armed forces and military-industrial complex. And why?
    Now about the subject of conversation. It is necessary, in my opinion, to finally decide for what, and, most importantly, for whom this machine is being developed. If for the Moscow Region this is one thing, if for the special forces of the FSB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs it is another. Again, where is the intelligible shadowwork task for development. Again, an old song - do this to us without hooks, but with mother-of-pearl buttons. Our gunsmiths have long proved that they can do anything and this is not an exaggeration. Give a clear task, money and you will be happy .....
    1. _CAMOBAP_
      +7
      18 February 2012 13: 26
      EMNP, the same Makarov said something about the range of targeted (!) Firing of the Israeli Merkava as much as 5 (!) Km! True, he did not specify - with what they shoot - a rocket or a shell, but this is a fundamental thing! Moreover, from the context of his statement it followed that it was a question of direct fire. So, especially for General Makarov, not a single tank, and indeed, not a single weapon in the world, can fire a direct fire from a tank gun at such a range today! For the umpteenth time I say that until designers, chemists, physicists and Martians can raise the initial velocity of the projectile to 2500-3000 m / s, tales of direct fire shooting by 5-6 - and even 56 km - bullshit, worthy of an expert a la Latynina and Filgenhauer.
      PS: Isho in Moscow is very fond of setting tasks like - go there, I don’t know where, take it, I don’t know what, but so that by morning it would be done!
      1. 0
        18 February 2012 20: 22
        _CAMOBAP_, Isho in Moscow region loves to set tasks like - go there, I don’t know where, take it, I don’t know what, but so that it would be done by morning! ----- and also that it would be cheap and cheerful and that the change would remain fellow laughing
  17. nas leonid
    0
    18 February 2012 12: 13
    And what gentlemen journalists, the most incompetent specialists, can evaluate? Ha their opinion always needs to be deeply spit.
  18. +2
    18 February 2012 12: 19
    The first generation of Kalashnikovs - AK;
    The second generation - AKM;
    Third generation - AK-74;
    The fourth generation is the 100th series;
    Fifth generation - AK-12.

    I wonder in what place the AK-12 doesn't pull on the fifth generation, if in the context of AK generation means only a line of weapons developed on the same principles and at the same time? wink
  19. Tambovskiy Volk
    -5
    18 February 2012 12: 45
    Again, lovers of quotes from Impact Force "are fixated on AK, but it's as if 2 years have passed from Lyuty, Shpagin, Dekhtyarev, Kalashnikov ...
    Now the image of a soldier is being formed in the future - as a "high-tech" one. On AK that the light converged like a wedge? IMHO - thinks you need a new one - let them buy a new cool one.
  20. mrAnderson
    -1
    18 February 2012 13: 04
    as the journalists understand they want: "give AK12" made of plastic
  21. dred
    -3
    18 February 2012 13: 19
    Well, it’s impossible to make ak-12 out of plastic as a steyr. A barrel box made of plastic with steel inserts.

    Well, it’s impossible to make ak-12 out of plastic as a steyr. A barrel box made of plastic with steel inserts.
    1. +1
      18 February 2012 13: 24
      According to werewolf0001, the polymer plant was destroyed, and therefore cannot, because there is no own production of polymers ... For example, for Sv-98, according to the same werewolf "a, plywood is taken from the Baltic states ...
      1. +2
        18 February 2012 15: 04
        polymer factory destroyed

        Then I wonder where these plastic come from:
        Shooting Tuning Company LLC
        http://www.stk.udmnet.ru/ru/products.html
        Firm "Zenith"
        http://zenitco.ru/
      2. fktrctqxbr
        -1
        18 February 2012 15: 59
        Someone told you something ??? !!! They didn’t feel bad even in the 90s, and now even more so. !!! ((((The best quality polymers work for export there, and the 1st and 2nd grades remain on the domestic market.
        To work with this high-quality raw material, you have to register enterprises abroad
  22. maksman
    +2
    18 February 2012 13: 24
    In general, everything is clear with our journalists (it's not clear only how they became journalists with such knowledge), but the generals are ours !!! Also from the PEPSI generation ??? Where is the president looking, the government? If you do not shoot such "generals" then certainly on trial - sabotage, provocations, betrayal of the interests of the homeland ... I think there will be enough articles on these reptiles.
  23. gercog_75
    +5
    18 February 2012 15: 30
    those who bark about obsolete mechanics ak. let them run for a year or so in a war, for example with dust in the mud in frost and heat, and then look, he will grab the wedge for the most crucial moment or not. AK-12 in vain took as a basis the old reliable and proven automation. in fact, all new weapons are all the old candy in a new wrapper. new weapons will appear with the appearance of ammunition on the mitigating charge 2-3 times more powerful than modern ones and also most likely the ammunition will become shellless as in the German g-11.
  24. T1GER_1
    +1
    18 February 2012 15: 31
    Well, so far the question is whether the machine draws to the stated bar. If it pulls in accuracy and accuracy, it will be universal and effective, it can easily be compared with modern foreign developments of the latest generations.
  25. +5
    18 February 2012 15: 38
    There is a clear contradiction in the statements of the journalists: on the one hand, they write that there is nothing new in it and changes at the custom level, on the other hand, that the raw machine requires fine-tuning.
    If this is still the same old AK with cosmetic changes, then what kind of refinements are we talking about?
    Achieving high parameters of the machine is a compromise in solutions, since increasing one indicator of the machine leads to a deterioration of the other. For example, the same M-16 has a higher accuracy of automatic fire, not least because of the lighter details of the shutter. The other end of this stick is less reliability. In contrast, the AK has a relatively heavy shutter frame, which helps the automation work in a non-standard situation (dirt, swollen sleeve, etc.), but of course, affects accuracy.
    The machine is done for those tasks that should be clearly formed by the Ministry of Defense for tasks that are planned to be solved on the basis of our doctrine.
    It, this is that task from the Ministry of Defense, did the manufacturers receive it? No. Gorazdy just fool the manufacturers: they don’t like this either, and not to say specifically what they need.
  26. azgard
    0
    18 February 2012 15: 56
    an article appeared about the dissatisfaction of the Ministry of Defense with a new machine gun

    and our "minister" is well versed in small arms ?? or weapons in general?
    I doubt it very much ...
  27. +3
    18 February 2012 16: 23
    The hype in the press around the AK-12 and AK is not at all a classic "order" like I paid you and you wrote. And an example of mass manipulation of consciousness. And if you want an information war. Most of these journalists for many years have already been "programmed" to rush at everything domestic like a chain dog. However, they are sincerely confident that they are right. There is no need to pay - just give me a suitable "info", and then: "Oh, keep us at the finish line !!!"
    To whom is it profitable for competitors (I think this is obvious to everyone).
    Now let's evaluate the effect of an information attack. I remember how more than ten years ago tele "experts" with the fervor of missionaries told us what a bad AK, and then interviewed our generals, they said AK is a good machine gun, not ideal, but good. The "experts" immediately began poking their fingers at them and shouting: "Look, they have an ossified brain, they don't understand anything, they reject everything new and modern, they have only dachas in mind !!!!!" As they say in folk wisdom: "If a person is called a pig all the time, he involuntarily grunts." So just imagine that you are a general and for many years in a row, an annoying chorus has been told you this is bad, it is not so, and at the same time you will be "washed" for not understanding this. And it would be fine "those" could not pay attention to this, and then after all and "their". Sooner or later, the ultimate strength of a person will come and emotions will prevail over reason. A person begins to see shortcomings where they are not, but shortcomings, and AK naturally has them - Problems. And this by the way not only concerns the AK. We see the result. And let us note this is not a betrayal - a man Himself and at the same time sincerely for increasing the country's defense capability.
    Further, this background can also make the manufacturer nervous. Make you try to squeeze out of the machine not squeezed out. Release "raw" modifications. To redirect forces and resources from healthy modernization to the development of something fundamentally new with dubious advantages. Ideally, abandon the "idea" to destroy or rebuild production for something else (preferably unpromising - licensed). And when the process becomes irreversible, the markets are yours. Moreover, it is not necessary to fill them with your own models. You buy the rights to "no one needs" Kalash for a pittance, but then ... You don't have to comment.
  28. Asketxnumx
    +3
    18 February 2012 17: 26
    What nonsense? Since when do JOURNALISTS evaluate the quality of weapons? Who among them has ever held it in their hands? Do they know what it means to aim and shoot at a living person? Even the enemy? And how do you feel after "destroying (defeating) the target"?
    1. +1
      18 February 2012 17: 32
      laughing oh, I didn’t miss? .. And Malakhov, Galkin, Svanidze ... what did they say ??? laughing aaaa gos dep usa ?????? laughing
    2. SIA
      SIA
      +3
      18 February 2012 20: 10
      Put two or three empty holes from the media to the wall, and a couple of three queues, over the heads give out. Interestingly, they will shake out the contents of the legs for a long time? And then ask them, what shall we criticize, or repeat?
  29. andrey903
    -11
    18 February 2012 17: 29
    In appearance, of course, the AK-12 was redone on the knee from earlier samples. Grandpa Kalashnikov will be sent to Putin to shake medals and everything will be in order
  30. Evgeny B.
    +4
    18 February 2012 18: 01
    "Journalists criticized the new Kalashnikov"
    Notice the experts, and the journalists!
    Excuse me, but who are "journalists"? And why should I react to their criticism? There is an ancient female profession ... the analogue of this profession is the profession of a journalist. Then you can skip reading the article.
  31. Region71
    +6
    18 February 2012 19: 08
    The middle lane, the unit on the march of the throw. You need to take a position as soon as possible, rough terrain, dust or dirt in the summer, frost and frozen gun grease in the winter. In such conditions, it is very difficult to keep the weapon clean. Head patrol did not notice the ambush and the unit suddenly fell under enemy’s fire. With whatever weapon you would like to be, one that needs to be cleaned to start shooting, one that will jam after two or three bursts, or everything is covered in dirt or dust, and even the cartridge due to dirt does not reach, but put a hand on the handle and the machine worked as it should.
    Each weapon is good for certain purposes, a super sophisticated barrel is suitable for operations of anti-terrorist units, even if it is afraid of dirt. And for the war with its dirt and dust, I would take a Kalash, well, it’s good if it is a little modernized but as reliable as the grandfather AK- 47
    1. Novosibirsky
      +2
      19 February 2012 09: 58

      In color, dear!

      Quote: Region71
      The middle lane, the unit on the march of the throw. You need to take a position as soon as possible, rough terrain, dust or dirt in the summer, frost and frozen gun grease in the winter. In such conditions, it is very difficult to keep the weapon clean. Head patrol did not notice the ambush and the unit suddenly fell under enemy fire. What weapon would you like to be


      Sometimes I walk through the woods at -35, but with a breeze! As I can imagine, for a second, that in such circumstances you have to fight ... I want to be baptized. )))
      Who didn’t live here, didn’t go to field exits in winter, didn’t shoot, doesn’t imagine what it is - a real Siberian frost! This is such zh.pa! And as you imagine what requirements for reliability your gan must meet, so that you can fight them in such conditions, that's all, questions completely disappear! AK, no options! Try (wrote already) incomplete disassembly of the same SCAR in our conditions to produce, with the mandatory removal of the butt, but with multi-tool at -40! And fine assembly is not needed here at xor! I shot with a rifle, and in the snow, a thin assembly icy, you really can’t remove it from the fuse. This is a hypothesis of course, but how to drink it will be the same with plastic wicks in our conditions!
      My choice in such conditions is the AK-12! With body kit according to the situation. I wouldn’t have taken all these toys into action.
      (Only 5,56 caliber want!)))
      1. +3
        19 February 2012 10: 11
        Sorry, not the topic, but you said about field exits in the cold and I remembered:
        "Beautiful winter forest,
        but no worse than flour
        when do you want to piss
        and so my hands were frozen. "
        After the service, there was a persistent dislike for the winter forest.
        1. Novosibirsky
          0
          19 February 2012 10: 16
          ))))))))))
          Valery, that's right, and this is just a small need to cope! )) But after all, the big one is not excluded !!!
          And how to service weapons at - 40! This, m_lya, does not squeeze the mouse at the computer! This is reality! "Welcome to Hell" is called!
          Give them the plastic ...
          They will pray on a padded jacket, boots and earflaps, and AK will kiss in general, like a sweet one for the first time, in a binge! )))
      2. Pathologus
        +1
        19 February 2012 14: 25
        In many respects I agree with you, but ... there are such countries: Norway and Sweden, they have a very harsh climate: frost ("... in the Finnmark area the temperature can drop to -50 degrees!"), Wind and heavy rainfall. they use Bofors AK5 and SIG SG-550. What prevents Russia, a country with enormous potential, from doing the same, and maybe even better?
        1. Novosibirsky
          +1
          19 February 2012 14: 36
          Quote: Pathologus
          use Bofors AK5 and SIG SG-550

          Do they have receiver like metal? And how much do they beat AK in terms of performance characteristics? If you win at all ...
          And then, use - do not fight. If you disagree, object.
          1. Pathologus
            0
            19 February 2012 15: 02
            The boxes are metal, but there are polymer components on the weapon itself. And better or worse ... I don’t know, but I think that the Scandinavians would not and probably wouldn’t put bullshit + on the Belgian and Swiss weapons have a bad reputation. If not difficult, write what you think about this. feel
            1. Novosibirsky
              0
              19 February 2012 15: 11
              Quote: Pathologus
              but there are polymer components on the weapons themselves

              Duck, they seem to be used on the AK-74 in the same places. No really?
              Quote: Pathologus
              And about better-worse ... I don’t know

              So I don’t know, Pathologus ... Yes, and how do we know. I just know for sure that weapons are not checked by firing, but by military, partisan operations, in the context of complicating repairs, maintenance, and use.
              Quote: Pathologus
              Belgian and Swiss weapons have a bad reputation at all

              Maybe .. Where did they fight?
              Quote: Pathologus
              If not difficult, write what you think about this.

              Why is it difficult. It’s even nice to talk. This is a favorite topic. Like fishing and women));)
              1. Pathologus
                0
                19 February 2012 15: 22
                Quote: NovoSibirets
                Maybe .. Where did they fight?

                Afghanistan, Iraq, African countries (old SIGs), everything seems to be, well, plus the police, but this is so, by the way.
                Quote: NovoSibirets
                Why is it difficult. It’s even nice to talk. This is a favorite topic. Like fishing and women));)

                Women are yes! good
                And how do you generally evaluate European weapons: FN, HK, SIG, Beretta. I would like to hear your opinion about the CZ 805 BREN A1 / A2. feel
                1. Novosibirsky
                  0
                  19 February 2012 15: 57
                  Quote: Pathologus
                  And how do you generally evaluate European weapons: FN, HK, SIG, Beretta. I would like to hear your opinion about the CZ 805 BREN A1 / A2

                  Just like most here! Virtually unfortunately. )) It was not necessary to use. Share you.
                  1. Pathologus
                    0
                    19 February 2012 16: 09
                    Same problem. request
                    1. +1
                      19 February 2012 17: 39
                      Pathologus and Novosibirets, you want the opinion of a specialist who also sells weapons. He is Russian, he emigrated to warmer climes. He served urgent in the USSR. Associated with the risk business in arms.
                      1. Novosibirsky
                        0
                        19 February 2012 18: 06
                        By all means.
                      2. +2
                        19 February 2012 18: 22
                        Only this character has one feature - an acute hatred of politicians in Russia. I prefer not to ask on this subject, because I sympathize with Putin. I feel that in the 90s, Russian businessmen shared the business without asking permission, so he dumped it. And so a very interesting comrade about weapons is a living encyclopedia.
                        http://cruz-a.livejournal.com/tag/1911
                        Andrey Cruz.
                      3. Novosibirsky
                        0
                        19 February 2012 19: 36
                        Thanks.
                      4. Pathologus
                        0
                        19 February 2012 22: 16
                        Thank you, Dmitry!
                      5. 0
                        20 February 2012 23: 44
                        Thank you, it turned out to be really interesting. Thank you so much Yes
            2. +2
              19 February 2012 15: 35
              I agree, but we have the cornerstone, it is cold in one area and warm in another. We need an automatic machine with very good heat resistance, for example we really need to take samples of Scandinavians, because the cold for weapons is worse than the heat, but the barrel should be ready for heat. Our ideal machine is a mix of SIG 550, ACR and M416. If we can combine the best qualities of these samples, then we will get a miracle in our hands good
              1. Pathologus
                +1
                19 February 2012 15: 57
                Quote: StrategBV
                Our ideal machine is a mix of SIG 550, ACR and M416

                And what should be taken from whom?
                1. +1
                  20 February 2012 23: 27
                  A little bit of everything. True, this is only a dream, or rather, my erotic night fantasy. I hope that the AK-12 will turn out to be at least what its creators promise, as a maximum something excellent and magnificent, because I am a hopeless optimist-patriot fellow
      3. 0
        7 March 2012 17: 11
        I drummed one winter in Chita in a sergeant training, and the second in Mongolia, also not a teenager, even worse - -40C and wind with dust and sand (there is no snow in Gobi in winter). But AKM and AK-74 worked like a watch even in the cold, even in the heat !!! fellow
  32. Regularis
    +3
    18 February 2012 19: 25
    Journalists criticized the new "Kalashnikov"

    Milkmaids opposed the style of writing articles and economic reviews bully
  33. +3
    18 February 2012 19: 36
    To begin with ... magazine weapons shouldn’t give an assessment to a weapon ... well, not a glamorous machine gun, without rhinestones ... and generally nasty, all made of metal. Those who hug him will spend more time than with their wife . And once again, a legitimate question ... and with ammunition will they do something? With optics? The American soldier from the time of the Vietnam War to the present day has voted with both hands for the SVD and Kalash. And the last thing to expect from the press paid from across the ocean.
  34. +4
    18 February 2012 19: 46
    The funny thing is that the most common complaint about the AK-12 is the absence of anything "revolutionary". The whole absurdity lies in the fact that after such changes, it will not be Kalashnikov. To demand that Kalashnikov stop being a Kalashnikov? Improve performance - Yes. But where do the critics get reliable data on the performance characteristics of the machine gun that has not yet passed all the tests? All that can be known so far is relatively reliable:
    1. +6
      18 February 2012 21: 42
      All changes in my AK theme. Could be better. But this process is endless. There is no perfection - not fatal. There is no machine- ????
      And now, let’s discuss on the topic: maybe this new AK can be constructed something fundamentally new?
      An assault rifle with improved shooting characteristics for special units and possibly some individual brigades of increased combat readiness is certainly needed, but for the whole army there is a question. I will not sing an ode to HIS MAJESTY OF RELIABILITY - I subscribe to all the good things that have already been said about this here. I will consider another point. The doctrine that is fashionable today is that a compact, professional, well-armed army is needed for local conflicts, and for everything else there is nuclear weapons. Has one flaw. If you do not have a large army, but there is a large territory, then they can arrange for you, if you wish, so that you regret it. Example: a series of provoked regional conflicts + the threat (just the threat) of a big war, for example, with China (through a series of provocations on the border). All this against the backdrop of the threat of a conflict with the West, which is sharply concerned about human rights in the conflict zone, accompanied by calls from liberals to "intervene." There is still no one to throw nuclear weapons at, the "pros" are smeared across the country like semolina. There is only one way out - mobilization. For some reason, it is generally accepted that reservists are frightened youths and old people. In part, this is possible and true. But at this stage it is unnecessary to call them. Reservists are also strong young men, as a rule, who went to military service (including yesterday's contract soldiers), and how many reserve officers we have. From them it is possible in a short time to put together fairly combat-ready units. Using them like regular cannon fodder is stupid. They deserve a good machine gun. I think the majority on this site, even in a semi-conscious state, are able to scatter and collect Kalash. Which is faster? Adapting to a more convenient 5-ke AK or mastering a new machine gun? And in peacetime and for the main part of the Akmiya will be "just that".
      So a new AK is needed.
      True, there are "experts" who even deny the discussion of the possibility of a big war (????? !!!!!!!!!) forgetting the ancient rule of the world: what you are not ready for - that will happen to you.
  35. Bashkaus
    +4
    18 February 2012 21: 11
    ... And who are the judges? ...
    If they (the journalists) are so smart, then you need to give them a three-ruble in the mouth and kick in the ass in a bayonet attack on abroms.
  36. 755962
    +2
    18 February 2012 22: 15
    Russian media have not ceased to criticize the new Kalashnikov AK-12 assault rifle, which is the pride of the Izhevsk arms factory. AK-12 should replace the outdated AK-74.
    for a long time thinking, and why is he so scolded? And then a long-forgotten ancient Chinese saying came to mind: “They don’t throw sticks into a barren tree.” Maybe the wise men are right ...
  37. +3
    18 February 2012 22: 30
    What to expect from a press paid from across the ocean, unfortunately not only the press but many others.
  38. prunx
    +3
    18 February 2012 23: 16
    Journalists just want something futuristic, like the Korean XK-11.
    1. Mahamont
      0
      19 February 2012 00: 03
      Journalists can find fault with everything, if you don’t go out of your way, the question is in the price of the “services” of the journalist.
    2. Novosibirsky
      0
      19 February 2012 10: 09
      Yes, absolutely to the point! And not only them! Kids of the Counter Strike generation also want a toy! Zadolbali, majors!

      But the grenade launcher really needs to think about how to integrate more correctly into the rifle, according to estimates, in recent local conflicts the number of shots from the grenade launchers almost equaled the number of shot cartridges!
      The option on the photo is interesting! The classic scheme for a cartridge and a bulpap for a grenade.
  39. +1
    19 February 2012 00: 40
    Everyone is scolding Stouretkin and the Moscow Region, but this is their merit ... they kick in the ass ... so they move, they promised a new tank by 2013. A good or bad AK-12, this is a "thing" that you can touch .. .and discuss ...
  40. Mr. Truth
    +4
    19 February 2012 01: 23
    Ak-12 will criticize journalists ...
    1. SIA
      SIA
      +1
      19 February 2012 07: 40
      Right! I would criticize them so that my mother is dear. They would have forgotten the road to the weapons factories.
    2. 0
      22 February 2012 10: 50
      Quote: Mr. Truth
      Ak-12 will criticize journalists ...

      The near future, IzhMash ..
      -Mrs. Journalists who have changed their mind about the account of AK-12 can give up ... and move away from the wall ....
      laughing
  41. +1
    19 February 2012 03: 46
    Cool, they still didn’t carry out the tests, and the military didn’t see him - but they already criticized ... So more than half of the equipment and weapons in World War II would not have appeared - they also criticized everything, but it was useful in battle ...
  42. +1
    19 February 2012 07: 45
    Journalists are journalists, the main thing is what the fighters will say after real trials.
  43. lotus04
    0
    19 February 2012 08: 49
    That's right, first you need to hold it in your hands, then draw conclusions. All ingenious is simple, this was proved by our "Kalash". And I think it's not worth making out of it a semblance of an M-16, or something else.
  44. Fish
    0
    19 February 2012 09: 39
    I myself used AKMSL 7,62 with a full body kit (NSPU.GP25. And PBS) weighed about 9 kg. But I would not change my "swallow" for anything else. AK S74m was only in the heavy weapons platoon. Reduce the weight and while the weapon operates on these physical principles, only spoil it

    I wonder whose whose flag I hung?
    1. Pathologus
      0
      19 February 2012 14: 28
      This is the flag of Iceland! drinks
  45. stasyan
    0
    19 February 2012 10: 45
    I wonder what kind of journalists? from inosmi? or some other pro-Western yellow press
  46. 0
    19 February 2012 11: 02
    By the way, about the flag, I already wrote to the administrator that the provider was to blame and the program automatically hangs all the flags.
    1. 0
      19 February 2012 12: 04
      Glory to GOD that they did not confuse me with the flag. It’s good that it’s not a flag of Israel, but if I were to hang a flag of Honduras, I would only be glad, because this is at least a reason for a smile, at most a surprise drinks
  47. +1
    19 February 2012 12: 02
    This is what confuses me: the machine is only now undergoing factory tests, which means it is VERY fresh, i.e. raw (I'm not saying that it is bad at the same time), and you know that in weapons, especially small arms, from the moment the first prototype is developed, until the first production model is made, it takes five years. I mean that no matter how one of the two happens, either development may be delayed, or our ministry, which rarely thinks with its head, can fulfill the will of the supreme forces and adopt an unfinished, "crude" system (like AN-94, I I do not consider it bad, but it is "raw" like water), and our soldiers will pay for this stupidity. I am not criticizing anyone, I just expressed my concerns.
  48. andrey903
    -1
    19 February 2012 12: 38
    The general director Izhmash has something not very vidoc, not like a specialist, but rather an effective manager from St. Petersburg
  49. Oleg0705
    -1
    19 February 2012 12: 49
    The machine must be run in combat conditions and then draw conclusions.
    Al Military Industrial Commission over the hill that looked after .... ???
    I believe in the Power of Russian Weapons.
  50. +1
    19 February 2012 14: 25
    And rightly criticized. They have everything "fundamentally new" and "unparalleled" there, but in fact, at best, just mediocre weapons.
    The military-industrial complex has long been time to give a good kick.
    The machine itself is probably not bad, but it is simply not unique or revolutionary, and is only slightly superior to its predecessors. Moreover, the Americans did all this work for ten years in a row in private firms, and it was called not a super duper machine, but simple customization.
    You just need to lie less, only a person who was completely uninterested in weapons could believe in these stories about a fifth-generation submachine gun on a basic rail with a rail.
  51. -1
    19 February 2012 14: 29
    In my opinion, the AK-12 is good, but the best is the enemy of the good. For the AK-12, mass production has been fully established, as was once the case with the “revolver” and they could not abandon it in a timely manner precisely because of well-established production.
    Today, it would be better to simultaneously develop something based on the Israeli tar 21 "Tavor".
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4XAYmmWVDY
    The video, at the 6th minute, shows its quick disassembly for maintenance, into only two large parts, the bolt and the rest.
    1. Novosibirsky
      -1
      19 February 2012 14: 40
      And what a return he has! Like AKM!
      1. 0
        20 February 2012 11: 45
        Recoil is always determined by the energy of the cartridge! If you don't want recoil, use zero energy ammo. :-)
    2. Novosibirsky
      -1
      19 February 2012 15: 01
      Quote: Genry
      In the video, at the 6th minute,

      What's the 6th minute?!! I already lost consciousness at 3-04! ))
      1. 0
        20 February 2012 12: 14
        Are you using your computer underwater?
    3. -2
      19 February 2012 18: 42
      Dear, have you used this product? I think not... but... maybe I’m wrong... tell me honestly...
      1. 0
        20 February 2012 12: 15
        I'm not saying that this particular machine is needed. I'm talking about the concept.
  52. Kochetkov.serzh
    0
    19 February 2012 14: 45
    This is the job of journalists))) but the machine gun will show itself and justify itself

    But to say whether it’s good or bad, what’s missing....it needs to be done at least after a year of use
  53. 0
    19 February 2012 18: 45
    I don’t understand... they showed a sample this week.... A SAMPLE!... and how many things were broken... I’m talking about spears... dear, let’s get down to business, shall we?
  54. 0
    19 February 2012 18: 49
    Asketxnumx,
    My friend, how many YEARS did you go into the field with an AK12?. just be honest..... And how do you differ in this case from the journalists?
    1. 0
      19 February 2012 18: 53
      they reached Budapest with them... come on, minus... but really, it’s funny...
  55. -3
    19 February 2012 19: 35
    AK12? Serdyukov has probably been racking his brains for a long time about who would be the most profitable to buy from. from heckler koch or still Fabrique Nationale? HMMMM.
    1. 0
      19 February 2012 23: 20
      He would buy it. Who will give it to him?
  56. Draize
    -2
    19 February 2012 22: 35
    Do you remember where the 30 million that were allocated for the development of games for popularization in the army went to? What did you get in the end? And the Russian analogue of "IPhone"?
    This country can not be defeated!
  57. 0
    19 February 2012 23: 10
    And let them criticize, as they say - The dog barks and the caravan moves on. wink

    well, and the fact that there is nothing revolutionary, well, there’s no need! A Kalashnikov is enough for a conscript, he’s not a professional. Moreover, the service life is short, God grant that you master the Kalashnikov at least not “by the teeth”, but at an “average” level. And the technical culture is rather low, it might turn out like with SVT and ABC...
    Now, if we come to a completely contract army (to be honest, it’s hard to believe in this anymore), then we can think about all sorts of sophisticated “machines” like AEK or AN...
  58. 0
    19 February 2012 23: 18
    The army needs a new Kalashnikov and it will be there. Just like other assault rifles and other shooting systems. Just don't panic.
  59. Fidain
    -1
    19 February 2012 23: 52
    AN-95(Abakan) AEK-971 i shas v 2012 godu delayut prosto Kalash s katorie v zapode uzhe ne kavo ne udevizh,pochemu ne uzheli za tolko vremeni ne sdelali ne chevo luchachshevo....
  60. bremest
    0
    20 February 2012 00: 45
    The AK-12 is an excellent machine gun. It implements innovations and at the same time maintains continuity. You can further improve the barrel, cartridge, optics. Everything in warehouses must be gradually sold abroad and replaced with AK-12.
    1. +1
      24 February 2012 15: 48
      Sell ​​10 million AK-74s to blacks and Arabs (and for one thing influence the political situation in a certain corner of the world bully ), and use the proceeds to properly fine-tune the “machine” to perfection laughing
  61. +1
    20 February 2012 08: 48
    Well... well, everything is clear with the magazine whores, a “social” order has been received and they fulfill it selflessly. But, based on what considerations, local “specialists”, who gain knowledge about foreign designs exclusively from pictures, are trying to ruin “public opinion” about what is still under “consideration”? Why puff up your cheeks and pretend to be a great weapons guru, if in fact you are an elementary “white ticket” who has not even fired three rounds from an AK?
    I will never and under no circumstances exchange a Kalash for a dubious exotic, because I know and am confident that it FAILURELY and conscientiously fulfills the main function of a weapon - to kill. A car and an automatic machine have different functions and therefore design is not a determining factor in determining the “modernity” of a product.
  62. schta
    +1
    20 February 2012 11: 18
    Apparently, the concept of the AK-12 is to be a mass-produced simple weapon. Another upgrade of the AK-47. One cannot expect great revolutions and breakthroughs from the AK scheme. This is true.

    But we also need a completely new weapon, even if not for the masses, but for professionals. There is already a trend. For example, the T5000 sniper rifle. We are also waiting for a new machine. Not AK.
  63. jar.zoom
    +2
    20 February 2012 17: 07
    We are pouring from empty to empty. You need to start with military doctrine. Then build staffing and organizational structures. And only after that order weapons. The doctrine today is frankly flawed. Brigade organization, well, there are simply no words. History teaches nothing. Where are those French semi-brigades and light divisions? Where are the mountain, light, Jaeger German divisions? Where, in the end, are the Soviet rifle and airborne brigades? Everyone eventually comes to uniform, more or less equivalent infantry (rifle) divisions. It will be easier to make it easier than make it heavier. And no one has yet canceled “big battalions decide everything.” The professionals are also pleasing. I don’t know whether to write this word in quotes or not. For anyone interested, I can tell you how in one southern and very free country I never became a pro from these the most pros with certain “devices”. I couldn’t use it, though, there were no cartridges. No special forces have ever decided and will not decide the outcome of the war. But I used a Kalash. The best weapon. Regarding the AK-12, I think everything is wise. I dreamed of it myself about the receiver cover on a hinge, a telescopic butt. The collimator would still be in the base! This would be very helpful for an ordinary soldier. There is no need for revolutions. The best is the enemy of the good. But in general, if something is good, the cartridge needs to be changed.
  64. -4
    20 February 2012 22: 01
    Naturally a poker, and nothing more. The only + is the folding stock to the right (the side crowns will not interfere). And in everything else... what did you think: pay attention to the rear sling slot for the AK-12 butt strap, and imagine how the weapon will be controlled when worn on the shoulder or across the neck (it’s straight, like a rocker on a cord)) Now imagine the manipulations with a belt with the butt folded? Fun, right? Hanging is convenient. Does this characterize the level of engineering thought of the developers? There is an excellent folding stock with an SVD type cheekpiece, why not use it! The pistol grip is complete nonsense, the finger cutouts will only get in the way, and its profile looks “slippery” (after all, there is an ergonomic Izhmashev grip, comfortable, I use one myself, and why did you have to reinvent the shitty wheel?!). The contour of the barrel is a joke to chickens, you could make it thicker but shorter, it won’t affect the fight, but then you wouldn’t be so afraid of overheating and it would be more compact. Yes, and the front sight can be transferred to the gas chamber block (the sighting line is sufficient, but it would not look like a “flimsy opener”). And they started beeping like, come godfather love, and again stupidly - it was possible to completely close the contour of the barrel and gas tube, the bottom rail is not needed (the designers would have tried to shoot from the heart with such a “saw” in their hand, and it’s uncomfortable in rifle gloves, but with the bare hand of a soldier...).
    You can go on and on for a long time and in detail that the “developers” simply sucked and stupidly tuned the Kalashmata, sold Rogozin a crapshoot, saying that it’s not in vain that we eat the state bread. In general, it turned out, as they say, an excellent pin for gartering tomatoes...

    Let me add... what has changed in it (AK-12) in terms of tactical and technical parameters from the AK-74/100 series? AK-101-106 have been tested for different cartridges and brought to the limit of technical capabilities; now it is only possible to improve the ergonomics of the AK and adapt it to a modern “mounted” one. And then they dressed him up in the shitty “clothes” of the season before last, and it’s all short-lived, so there’s nothing to admire here - just hold in your hands at least once a “Kalashmat” packed in an excellent, and by the way, very expensive body kit, and it will immediately become clear by looking at the AK-12 what he really is.
    1. 0
      20 February 2012 22: 32
      Excuse me, but who are you??? Perhaps you know how to shoot???
  65. +1
    20 February 2012 22: 39
    Quote: colonel
    Excuse me, but who are you??? Perhaps you know how to shoot???

    Yeah :) there is such a sin. And I train constantly, both with ours and with the “import”.
  66. Alexez
    0
    22 February 2012 10: 06
    Quote: Pathologus
    In many respects I agree with you, but ... there are such countries: Norway and Sweden, they have a very harsh climate: frost ("... in the Finnmark area the temperature can drop to -50 degrees!"), Wind and heavy rainfall. they use Bofors AK5 and SIG SG-550. What prevents Russia, a country with enormous potential, from doing the same, and maybe even better?


    uh, of course I could be wrong, and if so, then correct me, but the Bofors AK5 is a redesign of the Belgian FN FNC assault rifle for the harsh northern conditions, in which the gas engine and bolt group are borrowed from the Kalashnikov assault rifle.
  67. Passpart
    0
    April 19 2012 16: 44
    I read somewhere on this same site that Izhmash is on the verge of bankruptcy. And the fact that the guys, in the context of a global lack of income from those meager handouts from the state, modified the Kalash - this already at least commands respect. And the creation of fundamentally new weapons requires real money. Half of the engineers already work for the idea... Money and weapons are inseparable from each other, there is no escape from this. First of all, we need professional fighters and competent command. In those same states, no one will equip a soldier serving within the country with the latest weapons and protective equipment. Yes, in games and films there are beautiful, muscular guys, fully equipped with the latest weapons. Watch the series Generation Kill. I really liked it. The same problems in the American army as we have - outdated weapons, equipment is falling apart and requires constant repair, contract soldiers have to buy ammunition at their own expense, as well as incompetent command. But let's return to the new Kalash. They couldn't have done it any worse. But as I wrote above, there is simply no money for fundamentally new developments, and I’m sure there are more than enough ideas. I can imagine how bitter it is now for the developers, or rather the developers, to look at all the shit that the journalists unleashed on them. They work for pennies, develop for pennies... And everyone is waiting for a miracle!
  68. Russian knight
    +1
    April 8 2013 14: 28
    It's so cute, you should try it yourself.
  69. 0
    26 May 2014 16: 06
    I personally consider the AK 12 to be some kind of breakthrough; in modern realities, a weapon should not only be reliable but also convenient