"The Rooks Have Arrived. PY pistols go to the troops

114
While the new Kalashnikov assault rifle is just being tested, another type of rifle weapons. After several years of waiting and small-scale production, the fighters of our armed forces will finally receive a new pistol. This is the pistol of Yarygin (PJ) or simply “Rook”. Almost twenty years have passed from the start of the development of the “Rook” to large-scale deliveries to the troops. Immediately in sight, the pistol has a difficult fate. But first things first.

At the end of the 80-ies, the military ceased to organize existing pistols. The design of the Makarov pistols or the Stechkin automatic pistol did not cause any complaints, all the claims were to the patron. The fact is that the ammunition 9x18 mm PM, developed by B. Semin in the early fifties, was originally designed for a Makarov pistol, which, in turn, is so-called for its intended use. a police gun. Bullets fired from such weapons should have a good stopping effect and a small slaughter. In other words, this weapon should not kill a person who is shot, but must “shoot” him with every desire to resist. This was sufficient for use in the internal affairs bodies, but the army has its own working conditions and, as a result, its own requirements for weapons.

In 1990, the Ministry of Defense launched the Rook contest to create a pistol designed to replace the PM and APS. The engineers of the Central Research Institute Tochmash, led by P. Serdyukov, were the first to join the race, and in 93 the Izhevsk Mechanical Plant in the person of designer V. Yarygin became their competitor. At the same time the customer several times adjusted the terms of reference. First of all, the changes concerned the patron. Four options were considered at once: the familiar 9x18 PM, its upgraded version 9x18 PMM, the old 7,62x25 TT and the foreign 9x19 Luger. At one point in the Grach competition, the military even demanded that designers adapt their projects to all four cartridges at the same time. But by the middle of the 90-x they still decided and stopped only on one cartridge - it was the 9x19 Luger, or rather its modified version with the index 7H21. A little later in the Central Research Institute Tochmash, where they made 7H21, several variants of the new cartridge with various bullets will be developed.

The gun of Yarygin, originally having the factory name MP-443, does not represent something out of the ordinary in its design. This is a good modern model, which is based on automation with a short barrel stroke. The barrel is locked with one large-sized combat stop using the barrel skew. The trigger mechanism of the pistol Yarygin is made according to the scheme of double action, and the trigger is made open. At the same time, in order to avoid unpleasant incidents, it is covered on both sides with special projections of the casing of the shutter. Flags automatic fuse located above the handle on both sides of the gun. Turning on the fuse prevents movement of the bolt, whisper and trigger. The latter, it should be noted, can be blocked in both positions, cocked and deflated. Pistols, manufactured before the 2004 year, were completed with double-row box magazines with a capacity of 17 cartridges. From the 2004, serial PJs began to receive 18 magazine stores. Their dimensions are not increased. After the last cartridge is fired from the magazine, the bolt stops at the bolt delay. Her lever is on the left side of the gun under the bolt cover. In accordance with the armory "fashion" of the last decades, the shop latch button is located at the base of the trigger guard. In addition, the shooter at his own request can move it to the right or left side. Sights gun unregulated and consist of a front sight (is part of the casing of the shutter) and the rear sight, installed in the groove "dovetail." There are white dots on those sides of the rear and rear sights with which they are turned to the shooter. The whole construction of the gun, with the exception of the plastic lining of the handle, is made of metal.

In 2000, the pistol designed by V. Yarygin was declared the winner of the “Grach” competition and recommended for adoption. By this time, instead of the competitive designations “Grach” and 6P35, as well as the factory MP-443, the pistol receives the index ПЯ (Yarygin Pistol). Also, the nickname derived from the name of the contest - “Rook” was firmly attached to it. In 2003, the adoption itself took place. The first to do this was the Ministry of Defense, and soon the PU was adopted by the Ministry of the Interior. Unfortunately, in the first few years, “Grach” was produced in small batches. These few units of pistols quickly diverged in special units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Ministry of Internal Affairs. The rest of the fighters of both departments for the time being had to use the old PM and APS. However, already a few years after its adoption, the PU became a “movie hero” - with this weapon the heroes of the TV series “Sea Devils” went into battle. Although there is every reason to believe that because of the lack of “Rooks” in the army, the authors of the film had to be content with the sports version of the PJ called MP-446 “Viking”.

Last year, the situation with the “Grach” still changed, and full-fledged high-volume production began at Izhmeha. One of the first "large-scale" PJ received in the Western Military District. As the head of the press service of the ZVO Colonel A. Bobrun says, recently district officers began to master the new “Rooks” during a planned fire training. At the same time, the military continue firing from the PM, which gives them an excellent opportunity to compare both pistols and draw conclusions. Colonel Bobrun argues that the new gun "causes only positive emotions" for everyone who happened to shoot from it. Perhaps, some euphoria from upgrading the materiel affects the opinion of the military, but one cannot say that the new pistol is not better than the PM. "Rook" is almost a third heavier than "Makarov," but this compensates for a more powerful cartridge. Also, the PN is longer than the barrel, which improves the accuracy and accuracy of the fight. Other reasons for praise lie in the more convenient balancing of the new pistol and in more than two times more capacious store.
114 comments
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  1. +9
    18 February 2012 09: 28
    I saw a commercial on one of the TV channels demonstrating the high accuracy of shooting from this gun. And in confirming and guaranteeing accuracy, the target was a masked spec. The distance between his head and bullets heaping into the target was minimal. I was impressed!
    1. Pathologus
      +1
      19 February 2012 14: 31
      It's not about the pistol, but about who fired, the special forces from both Makarov and Stechkin knock out the top ten, but there are big questions about ergonomics and reliability (two-row magazine)?
  2. +4
    18 February 2012 09: 38
    Why they will not make guides immediately for the suspension of lamps and luc, and not through the bases as now?
    1. Sleptsoff
      +7
      18 February 2012 09: 49
      Now a new pistol "Strizh" or "Black Swift" is being tested there are guides and it looks more accurate. Here in the photo you can see that when firing, the barrel lifts up on the swift, this is no longer there. There is a video on the famous video site so you can watch it.
      1. Saroff
        +6
        18 February 2012 10: 38
        Here in the photo you can see that when shooting the barrel lifts up

        This is generally a feature of short-stroke automation
      2. -1
        18 February 2012 12: 23
        Recently Rogozin was shown the Strike pistol, which is planned to be produced. In my opinion, the same pistol.
        Personally, I like it. Automation, I think, with a short stroke of the barrel, with locking by turning the barrel (like GS-18)
        1. -1
          18 February 2012 21: 26
          Quote: Bad_gr
          Recently Rogozin was shown the Strike pistol, which is planned to be produced. In my opinion, the same pistol.

          I meant "Swift" or "Black Swift" - visually, the same "Strike"
          1. +1
            20 February 2012 12: 05

            http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/02/17/new-russian-arsenal-firearms-strik
            e-one-strizh-polymer-pistol /
            If I understood the translation correctly, the same is said
      3. +2
        19 February 2012 11: 54
        the article would be more complete. if at the same time they indicated the reasons why the army isn’t happy with the GSh-18 pistol, for example ... and besides, hanging any crap like lanterns on the gun is a topic only for movie militants ... in conditions of using this type of weapon, what happens on the most effective distances of 3-5 meters, all these lights and other canopy on the gun are completely redundant and only interfere with the combat use of weapons ..
        1. Novosibirsky
          +2
          19 February 2012 12: 02
          Quote: Krilion
          in addition, hanging any crap like lanterns on a pistol is a topic only for action movies

          Yes, indeed, it is better to storm a dark basement with a torch and a Makarov pistol.
          1. +3
            19 February 2012 21: 44
            Yes, all these nonsense are hanging on pistols, the efficiency of aiming at the target is lost, and you yourself are completely and completely revealed. It’s good for bullies or drunks in apartments and to scare them in the basements, (and you are two dozen people), they will shy away from one light!
            And if something more or less serious? A semi-military special operation in the same Ingushetia or Chechnya, where there is a serious man with a Kalash ... then this target indicator and even more so a lantern, your certain death.
            Night vision devices here you have a flashlight and a designator. And your secrecy and security.
            1. Novosibirsky
              0
              19 February 2012 21: 50
              I said below, Pilgrim, that the situation on the device. I agree with the LOC, but I need an opera lantern. They have to highlight this way. They know you have no night vision devices)).
            2. LAO
              LAO
              -1
              22 September 2012 16: 14
              You, first of all, take an interest in the data of these devices and their prices. Calculate how many such devices are needed for the army and the police, and then realize that this is taxpayer money - your money! This is your under-received salary, poor medicine, lack of roads, etc., etc. ...
              The army and the police, in principle, can even be equipped with individual cyclotrons with superconducting super magnets - provided that the country walks hungry and without pants (with a bare ass)!
          2. 0
            20 February 2012 02: 38
            when storming a dark basement, you with a pistol and a lantern mounted on it will represent an excellent target ...
            1. LAO
              LAO
              +1
              22 September 2012 15: 58
              How do you imagine traveling in complete darkness with a flashlight in one hand and a gun in the other? If the flashlight on the weapon - illuminated - shoot! If the lantern is in your hand, it is illuminated, sent a weapon, and (if you have time) - shoot. Loss of responsiveness and accuracy. It is unlikely that in the "west" all the idiots are trying to show off.
    2. NovoSibirets
      +11
      18 February 2012 09: 49
      Yes, because we slow down as always. The bourgeois already set collimators on short-shooters, ltsu, lanterns. And we are only moving away from PM-ma. And he, for a minute, in 1948 year designed!

      1. dmitri075
        -3
        18 February 2012 17: 01
        "Yes, because we slow down as always" - I absolutely agree! bring some pistol to a large "series" 20! years! ... and this is the "greatest" Russian military-industrial complex in the world ... lol learn from Gaston Glock and from little Austria to make weapons and make decisions!
        1. +5
          18 February 2012 22: 35
          Little Austria is the heir to the great Austria-Hungary, maybe your ancestors once owned it, if you are from Lviv region. The main thing here is school and traditions, and the Austrians have them.
          1. Municipality
            0
            19 February 2012 16: 48
            well, but what is he wrong about?
            1. -1
              19 February 2012 17: 45
              Quote: Kommunar
              well, but what is he wrong about?
              Who?
        2. Municipality
          +2
          19 February 2012 16: 47
          it’s not clear why they blundered, for the truth? or so, and the gray pagon minus him?
          1. 0
            19 February 2012 21: 49
            No need to compare well..y with a finger. Austria, or what is Belgium? Yes, they do not care what to take ... but we have a country surrounded by such "friends" as this overgrown offended Dimochka. We need to approach this seriously and thoroughly, we have an army not of 10 people, and a kind of troops in full, and not a couple of types! Therefore, it is better to play it safe here.
            Once again, the comparison is not correct, if not stupid and unprofessional.
            1. Novosibirsky
              0
              19 February 2012 21: 56
              Quote: Pilgrim
              Once again, the comparison is not correct, if not stupid and unprofessional.

              What exactly is the Pilgrim Comparison? Russia and Austria? If so, what does it mean that we don’t need to improve the pistols? Or do you mean more difficult than the Austrians to adopt? Something I did not understand you. Clarify the position.
        3. 0
          20 February 2012 12: 16
          dimitri075, and you're the smartest type here, huh? Are you in your life at least something to mind brought?
      2. KGB161rus
        0
        18 February 2012 18: 49
        I do not like this button, which throws out the clip (because they say that they often fail), although a modern pistol, I can be wrong, then I see a not bad handle at Rook, let alone a PM, which is not convenient, I from him he always shot with two hands, so that it would be more or less to hit the target, from the other side who has a "lumpy" laughing that and PM will go. . .
        1. +2
          19 February 2012 01: 58
          Yarygin also has this button. If you keep an eye on the weapon, then no "unplanned breakdowns" will happen, especially for the Glock. And this button is an extremely useful thing and, with the proper skill, is a great advantage. If someone has it, she is the reason for the loss of the clip, then the diagnosis is one - to single and train. In case of growing hands from other places other than natural, do not pick up objects that are dangerous to others.
          To be honest, I can’t imagine a "craftsman" whose clip "falls out by itself." I would not entrust a firearm to such a person. In his hand Yarygin is not bad, despite the "Zhiguli angularity" This is the analogy that came to mind when he first took it in his hands. Glock is more pleasant for its "rubber" and the handle is more ergonomic.
          To shoot correctly all the same with two hands, for that they are given two. I am surprised that in our penates, they still practice shooting with one hand, as in Tsarist Russia. I understand if an extreme situation; Well, he's wounded there, his hand is busy. But in other situations, a two-handed grip is the key to successful shooting. Moreover, this "grip" still needs to be "put".
        2. Municipality
          +1
          19 February 2012 16: 54
          true, the PM’s grandfather's argonomics, and even when shooting it, not only threw him up, but also twisted his arm counterclockwise, 90 degrees, so he also preferred with both hands
          1. 0
            19 February 2012 17: 48
            if the grip is correctly formed, it will saddle all attempts to "twist". When the instructor explained simple things to me, I felt extremely uneasy. feel such obvious and primitive things, and the wagon is of use. what
            I like pm. only because of its small size, I can’t reload it in the NATO-military manner, the palm overlaps the sleeve extraction window.
      3. Shveik
        +6
        18 February 2012 19: 16
        Domestic LTSU finally have never seen only built-in OSUs are very "weak".
        And so we also have some good designs with strips and for lights and under the laser pointer and with a collimator mount, for example mine, with a powerful green laser pointer, cutting paper when the beam is aimed (it hits the eyes very hard, causes a short time blindness)
        1. KGB161rus
          0
          18 February 2012 19: 35
          Shveik
          here's my example

          And this is where they give out or is it yours bought in a store ?!
        2. KGB161rus
          0
          18 February 2012 19: 37
          And this is a trauma. . . but I thought at the beginning maybe where in the units we are given lol
          1. Shveik
            0
            18 February 2012 20: 20
            It seems like the same ones only without "teeth" are given to some special forces. And in the ranks of the armed forces you yourself know - PMs only; (
      4. 0
        19 February 2012 11: 56
        you can hang anything and in any quantities you like, especially for filming movies ... in real conditions, all these things, in close combat, are practically not used ..
        1. Novosibirsky
          +1
          19 February 2012 12: 07
          Do you have them to use them?
          And then, in what kind of battle? Combined arms - of course, there’s no nah, but for an opera entering a dark apartment, they are very appropriate! Where it is more accurate to peel along a ray of light and a l / ray than at random, into darkness through a flash.
          1. 0
            20 February 2012 02: 49
            Quote: NovoSibirets
            Do you have them to use them? And then, in what kind of battle? Combined arms - of course, there’s no nah, but for an opera entering a dark apartment, they are very appropriate! Where it is more accurate to peel along a ray of light and a l / ray than at random, into darkness through a flash.


            for information: I served in the Ministry of Internal Affairs for 15 years as an opera and I have the practice of real application of time sheets PM ... the situation you described (a dark apartment, which must be entered without fail) - from the field of fiction .. I repeat, the effective range for using a gun is 3- 5 meters .. there is no longer any need for either flashlights or a fins, or even any aiming ...
            1. 0
              20 February 2012 02: 56
              Quote: Krilion
              it is an opera and I have the practice of real application of time sheet PM

              ..My respect! ... And on the topic .. And so on the situation. The pestle can also be kept aside with a fanarik, and you’ll blind the rogue and the rogue is lost in the landmarks where you are standing .... BUT .... . In most he ... (flashlight) problems only throw. bully.......... "with slats and under the lights and under the LCC" ... ahhhh missed this moment ... yes, the LCC is a funny thing ..
            2. Novosibirsky
              0
              20 February 2012 12: 16
              Quote: Krilion
              For information: he served in the Ministry of Internal Affairs for 15 years with an opera.

              I can only greet you. I at one time also did not eat up on the grocery base. )))

              Quote: Krilion
              and I have the practice of real application of time sheet PM ..

              To apply living things, God has mercy so far.

              Quote: Krilion
              the situation described by you (a dark apartment, which must be entered without fail alone) - from the realm of fiction.

              I would not want to argue .., remain unconvinced.

              Quote: Krilion
              effective pistol range - 3-5 meters ..

              I do not argue, for police purposes, yes. Further on whom God went, as they say.

              Quote: Krilion
              there is no longer a need for either flashlights, a ltsu, or even any aiming ...

              If you stop for a second and think, you will come to the conclusion that the flashlight is not necessarily d / b at all with the same
              the assault is constant, he m / b is turned on at a certain point, dazzle, look around, etc. tactical goals. To whom to hunt separately
              lantern, holding the second hand.

              And then, if you did not use it, and do not plan, because they probably just weren’t at the time of your service, this does not mean that this does not happen in other services. It’s probably hard to blame the SPN to the police in Korea, France, and Germany for wearing unnecessary
              body kit? See with your own eyes. This is not a movie filmed. )))










              Tactics does not stand still, dear Krilion.
  3. +13
    18 February 2012 09: 40
    Due to a business need, two batches of PYa 2010 and 2011 had to be shot. When shooting the first, if the pistol was placed with a plane parallel to the ground (so that the cartridge case would fly into the cartridge case catcher), four barrels in a row had delays due to the fact that the cartridge case was not removed, and with a normal, classic pistol grip, the cases flew up "honestly". I cannot explain the physical meaning of this phenomenon. Having received the second batch (2011), in addition to the order for shooting, they wrote an order for testing and shot several magazines per barrel, even upside down. The whole game went off with a bang. And such a nuance - that would need to clean the PM ... well, you yourself know how much rags. To clean the PU well, half a kilogram at least good
    1. Owl
      +5
      18 February 2012 10: 07
      Even when moving, there were several times when overcoming obstacles, spontaneous loss of an equipped magazine from the pistol grip (the magazine eject button protrudes too much, accidentally pressing the button through the holster).
      1. 0
        18 February 2012 10: 42
        Valera, Philip - thanks for the comments.
        I wanted to ask, but what about the overall impression of the trunk?
        and problems with the presence of 9 * 19 does not arise?
        1. +3
          18 February 2012 11: 44
          Due to the specifics, the main consumption of b / ammunition is only for firing. Therefore, there are no problems in this regard. Available and Luger 9x19 and 7H21.
        2. +4
          18 February 2012 14: 02
          And such a feature is also noteworthy - if a cartridge is sent to the barrel, the ejector catching the sleeve with its tooth sticks out quite noticeably above the shutter surface. Those. you can check to the touch whether you forgot something before firing, and also (if you look in full view), you can determine whether your opponent is bluffing by threatening this product.
          1. Owl
            +1
            18 February 2012 18: 29
            The good news is that the PY "accepts" all 9x19 mm ammunition. The 17N7 and 21N7 are not used for shooting from the Glock-31. The quality of workmanship is average, some PYa, when firing at a distance of 25 meters, have a hit point 5-7 centimeters above the aiming point, some below. There have been no deviations in direction so far. I would like more ammunition for shooting.
            1. Brother Sarych
              +1
              19 February 2012 12: 08
              Very interesting remarks, visible to users, contrast strongly with all the requirements expressed here, gleaned from computer shooters ...
  4. NovoSibirets
    +2
    18 February 2012 09: 40
    I don’t know ... Outwardly I don’t like him ... True, I didn’t have a chance to shoot from Yarygin But, as the saying goes: “I haven’t read Pasternak, but I condemn”! ))
    And the caliber is 9 mm ... Not the most suitable for a short-shot. Korotkostrel must have a high stopping power. Optimal, in my opinion, 45 caliber, and here is this machine: Colt-1911

    And the video was impressive, 200 yards away!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUZr2ekNFe8
    1. 0
      18 February 2012 11: 02
      Sorry brother! Passed purely from patriotic considerations ......
      Of course, if you follow the path of least resistance, you can stupidly buy a dessert of needles (an excellent machine), but we, due to all the known circumstances, cannot rely on foreign purchases for the Russian army ... (We won’t discuss the mains now)
      ....... our new gun will not be the worst ...... (IMHO)
      1. +5
        18 February 2012 22: 50
        Desert Eagle - Israeli pistol for film and sports shooting. 2 kg with the return of the howitzer to carry with you - fire. better PM.
        1. NovoSibirets
          0
          18 February 2012 23: 01
          Yes you are right. It was created for sports, and then the director liked it, as far as I know Tarantino. He also "untwisted" it!
          1. 0
            19 February 2012 02: 04
            no, for the first time, as far as I remember, this barrel was shown in "Red Heat", with Schwartz. It was a pistol of the "Podbyrin system")))))), or rather, some version of the sports Needle, modified for shooting ...
            1. Novosibirsky
              0
              19 February 2012 12: 14
              Yes Yes!!! ))) Exactly, Dmitrich, in the Heat! Thank. Only after that Tarantino already fell in love with him!))
              Sports version of the Desert Eagle. 357. There he is. Upper.
              1. Novosibirsky
                -1
                19 February 2012 12: 31
                I lied. Desert Eagle Mark VII.
              2. 0
                19 February 2012 17: 53
                yeah, like. drinks

                - What is your evidence?
                - Cocaine!
                laughing
        2. 0
          19 February 2012 13: 42
          Quote: dmitreach
          Desert Eagle - Israeli pistol for film and sports shooting. 2 kg with the return of the howitzer to carry with you - fire. better PM.

          So it’s in caliber .50, there is a bullet energy similar to AKM, from 1900 to 2300 J
    2. +3
      18 February 2012 11: 49
      By the way, if you want to enjoy the domestic barrel from the heart, use (if possible) the P-96M. Here is the body so the body.
    3. black_eagle
      +1
      18 February 2012 11: 54
      Over the past two decades, a huge number of new pistol models have been developed, agree a pistol is not a tank, any more or less competent engineer can "compose" a thread, and the fact that they chose "Rook" means it is worth it, the competition he had what a!
    4. +1
      18 February 2012 18: 13
      beautiful! Mr. Colt called people equal! 1911 - a classic of the genre, which is more than a century old.
    5. 0
      19 February 2012 13: 41
      45 has a weak penetrating effect, because bullet speed 280-290m / s. therefore, this caliber is better suited for operas of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the FSB, etc. - and you shoot a "radish", and you won't soak the left one. for the army, you need a cartridge with a high penetrating ability, because ubiquitous "armored clothing". here 9 * 19 is quite good, but in the west they complain about it - they say it is weak, so they make other cartridges, such as .40, .41AE, etc.
      1. Novosibirsky
        -1
        19 February 2012 14: 07
        Quote: wasjasibirjac
        45 has a slightly piercing effect, because bullet speed 280-290m / s.

        PM - n / speed 315 m / s. APS - 340 m / s. Compared to our regular staff, the difference is not great.
  5. +5
    18 February 2012 10: 11
    Most importantly, you can use the captured NATO ammunition.
  6. +6
    18 February 2012 11: 39
    Most importantly, you can use the captured NATO ammunition.

    Now many gunsmiths are switching to 9x19, of our I prefer this one:


    9x19mm PBP cartridges with an armor-piercing bullet designed for GSh-18

    From overseas this:


    it’s true that I didn’t have to shoot from .45, but I shot two clips from .40, the machine was nothing ...

    HK USP .40SW caliber
    1. Tambovskiy Volk
      -1
      18 February 2012 12: 10
      PSih2097,
      You know the Russians, I bought six pirated disks with "Shock Force", and for one this program we have on channel 2 + 2 from 16.30 to 19.00 (satellite Amos, throw two hours to the Moscow time zone) approximately, I watch it on TV more now I often turn it on after work. So I can make an unambiguous conclusion how much harm that program has brought, after watching the murzilka kindergarten screamers and typing foolishness and quotes there, they dirtied all military forums with fables. For example, the GSH-18 cited by you, yes, it has its own tactical characteristics, but the kindergarten is not in the house, that the military will never take it with its resource, the same for Abakan, etc.
      GSh-18 if it is useful anywhere, then for special divisions and no more, the "Russian Walter" PM needs to be changed for the army, but changed according to the terms of reference and requirements - accuracy, reliability, price, weight, production, resource, etc. 18 will never do that.
      1. 0
        18 February 2012 14: 31
        but to change according to the terms of reference and requirements - accuracy, reliability, price, weight, production, resource, etc. ... GS-18 will never pull on this.

        The taste and color ...
        1. Tambovskiy Volk
          0
          18 February 2012 16: 58
          Quote: PSih2097
          The taste and color ...

          Speaking in Murzilian terms, yes, but the army and rearmament are different.
          1. +1
            20 February 2012 01: 06
            Speaking in Murzilian terms, yes, but the army and rearmament are different.

            Sit in your 4th Reich and do not go ... GSH 18 barrel norms, almost all the shortcomings that were at the beginning, at the time of the release of the program of the armory "Visiting the Fairy Tale" were taken into account and reworked, even the scope in the USP manner was redone ... In short, to each his own, someone likes M1911, someone TT ...
    2. Born in USSR
      +1
      18 February 2012 16: 54
      Of my developments, I also like gsh18 most of all, although I did not have to shoot from it. Maybe someone will share the experience?
  7. +2
    18 February 2012 11: 59
    Comrades, but what can nobody write about the resource PY? Here I personally held a yarygin with a torn barrel after 500 shots ...
    1. +5
      18 February 2012 12: 09
      Izhevsk citizens declare a guaranteed shot of 4000 shots, as with the PM. Naturally, there are no statistics on PY. But PM passed through my hands, it seems Izhevsk too. Born 1965, 1968 I don’t think that IZHMASH has lost technology so much that the PY will not withstand 4000 rounds. That you fell into the hands of an annoying exception (I hope)
      1. +1
        18 February 2012 12: 19
        Unfortunately, no, comrade. From colleagues, I also heard about trunks that could not withstand 130 shots .... The problem with PJ is that he is the brainchild of a shooter, not a gunsmith. The gun lies perfectly in the hand, it is convenient to maintain. But, IMHO, in a real combat situation, reliability will be more important ....
        1. +1
          18 February 2012 12: 33
          That barrel over which I mocked withstood 200 rounds, and then the cartridges ran out.
          1. mox
            mox
            0
            18 February 2012 13: 28
            Read the thread on Tape.ru.
            http://readers.lenta.ru/news/2012/02/16/yarygin/
            The disadvantage is insecurity.
            1. 0
              19 February 2012 22: 08
              You’ll be right away to take it in your mouth and give it to your ass! And at the same time she was a girl!
              Did you get such a wife? Or did you still teach her this over time?
      2. +1
        18 February 2012 17: 36
        colonel, a question for you, as for shooting from an army version of a pistol. How do you like the gun? At least the sports version has statistics.
        The instructors (shooting complex Object) have polar opposite opinions. There, from 466C (sports PY), the resource is squeezed out, almost in a month - another. Some scold, don't they use foul language. For with a declared resource of 10 (initially they promised so much) shots, after 000 and the barrels tears and breaks off arbitrarily from a delay. This is given the fact that the "Object" purchases ammunition to order, requires quality. And the barrel itself has an interesting, incomprehensible geometry (at least a sporty one), which raises questions about its "heating uniformity" during active shooting. And the processing of details is poor. They have ALL the trunks through "bringing to mind with a file" passed. His feature is very consistent with TB, when he himself breaks off the bolt. (with not much wear) I personally saw this a couple of times. And with warranty service, in terms of parts for replacement ... Well, you understand me ...
        And the diametrical point of view is that if you learn to shoot from a Viking (an accredited civil-sports version of PY), then you can shoot from everything. I do not agree with the latter, for the same Glock is many times easier, with all the consequences .... A very controversial thing, this PYA is a Viking. As the new barrel is interesting, I still like it, but serving it as a UNIQUE RUSSIAN weapon is a typical Soviet extreme.
        1. 0
          18 February 2012 20: 11
          I am not looking for experts on this issue. He shared the micro-experience that he was able to acquire. The maximum shot from a single barrel 200 times. For myself, I can say that I got pretty (I mean accuracy), but this is purely subjective. I do not have statistics. Operational realities do not involve bringing to more or less noticeable wear. But, to be honest, after the PM I took the PMM and smashed the target into dust. And it became easier on my soul, sort of like talking to an old friend.
          1. 0
            18 February 2012 22: 21
            Thank you.
            In general, an "old friend" is the most optimal solution. For the "accustomed hand" and fine motor skills are acquired only by practice.
            1. +1
              19 February 2012 02: 10
              tin .... belay I read my own message after a couple of hours ... somehow it doesn’t sound like that .... lol
              1. Novosibirsky
                0
                19 February 2012 09: 28
                Quote: dmitreach
                read my own message after a couple of hours ... kak somehow it doesn't sound like that .... lol

                Yeah, dmitreach! Like a monologue of a 14 year old teenager in the bathroom! laughing
                1. 0
                  19 February 2012 17: 56
                  feel great and powerful Russian language. Sometimes you get smart and funny yourself laughing
    2. 0
      18 February 2012 13: 41
      Comrades, but what can nobody write about the resource PY? Here I personally held a yarygin with a torn barrel after 500 shots ...

      I already wrote about the cost and the resource declared by the manufacturer ...
      Here, I found:
      ПЯ cost - 13 000 r., resource 4000 shots (works after processing by a file - literally)
      the cost of the SR 1M - 45 000 p., a resource of 4000 shots.
      Glock cost 17 - 19 800 p., resource 250 000 shots ...
      1. Tambovskiy Volk
        -1
        18 February 2012 13: 44
        PSih2097,
        Glock is a cool gun.
        Quote: PSih2097
        ПЯ cost - 13 000 r., resource 4000 shots (works after processing by a file - literally)
        the cost of the SR 1M - 45 000 p., a resource of 4000 shots.
        Glock cost 17 - 19 800 p., resource 250 000 shots ...
        1. 0
          19 February 2012 22: 10
          And who is this PSih2097?
          Which offended top are you all referring to?
      2. NovoSibirets
        0
        18 February 2012 22: 07
        Gentlemen who are in the subject, enlighten. How to get such a resource in Glock ?! And why do we have 63 !!! times less resource? !! Are we doing refined ghana ?! I'm just for the technology is not at all in the subject, how so? !!
        1. 0
          18 February 2012 22: 25
          If I knew a buyback, I would live in Sochi .. and would compete with the Austrians. wink
          1. NovoSibirets
            -1
            18 February 2012 22: 32
            Yes laaaaadna ?! )) What is such a secret? !! Yes, I don’t believe in life that the specialists do not know the "secret". Only here they may not be ... Go and live in Sochi, stsuki! )) How to drink give something to the metal. Yes, and with what else ..? Not with the weather.
            1. 0
              18 February 2012 22: 37
              here FIG knows him. Well, it’s not just that glocks are considered to be eternal, but nobody can really approach them in terms of price / value ...
              1. NovoSibirets
                0
                18 February 2012 22: 39
                I’ll look for tomorrow evening, today it’s already 2 nights on mine. All the best.
                1. 0
                  18 February 2012 22: 44
                  It will be interesting to read. till tomorrow.
                  1. Novosibirsky
                    +2
                    19 February 2012 11: 54
                    Little information, but there is. In a nutshell, the secret is the secret! )))

                    "The details of the gun are coated with a unique TENIFER compound, which gives their surface mechanical strength comparable to diamond and high corrosion resistance. Thanks to this coating, the friction surfaces and the bore are practically not subject to wear."

                    "All parts of Glock pistols assembled at subsidiaries around the world are made only on one! factory in Austria. And already in the Americas, Asia and other Africa, only assembly, acceptance by representatives of Glock GmbH and sighting are carried out. The company zealously guards its secrets that industrial spies have not been able to recognize for 30 years".
                    So, apparently the secret of the barrel in alloy, processing and coating.

                    And another funny quote:
                    "AT In 1990, 3 shots were fired from the Glock pistol within 47 hours 10140 minutes. For the purity of the tests, the test gun was assembled from parts of 20 different samples". Photo below.

                    Well, for dessert. An interesting page with new sights. Tasty. )))
                    http://www.armoury-online.ru/articles/pistols/austria/Glock17/

                    1. +1
                      19 February 2012 18: 10
                      the legendary trunk and hold in your hands is nice. if our laws would allow it, I would buy it.
  8. +5
    18 February 2012 12: 59
    Ich a good-quality pistol, nothing out of the ordinary, but a good pistol, though it is somehow angular it hurts, it will cling to everything. And yet, he had BIG problems with the magazine, because he had it without rebuilding the cartridges in one row, so delays were regular. I don't know what happened to the store, maybe a miracle happened or just a constructive rework. Of ours, I also like GSh-18 and Stechkin pistols: Pernach, Berdysh and Dart. Although to be honest, we are not doing very well with pistols, our pistols are solid, good, but not the best, so far it's not worth competing with monsters like Beretta, Heckler and Koch or Glock, we don't have enough experience and manufacturability. I am a patriot and with all my heart I adore Russian weapons, they are the best for me. Among the pistols, I would like to get my hands on the GSh-18 (you can also PYa), PSS, and from the western ones I dream of getting the miracle of the Colt-1911 baggage in my hands, it's just cool and beautiful. Let's be patriots fellow
    1. +1
      18 February 2012 17: 55
      Buddy you will be in the golden-headed, there is the opportunity to shoot from Colt PARA, this is the same 1911, only under 9x19 parabellum. There the handle is thicker, because there are 18 rounds in the clip, but this is the only difference. They wanted the Colt 1911 45ACP under another ammunition to do and did. Knowledgeable people say that it’s different in the hand and the difference is fundamental in return (not 45 ...), but fish are also fish for fishless fish ... In general, 1911 is a religious luck!
      1. Kostyan
        0
        18 February 2012 22: 22
        Are you crazy to write such a thing ... at least someone held it in his hand ??? it can’t be grabbed ..... it’s easier for them to kill on the head with a freaking ...... for westerns only .... and the best gun is Walter PPK .....
        1. 0
          18 February 2012 22: 35
          oh how! and whose fighters still love him? what other pistol is in service with the century? and it seems to me that you didn’t hold it in your hands ... (maybe I’m wrong) with my average height and not a large hand size, I lay down better than 17glok and CZ. Ideally "poured" into the hand. considering that I used Colt PARA, the grip there is much thicker, and the recoil is less. the only thing that confused him was the withdrawal of the first hundred rounds at 11 in the morning, because of the sensitive safety catch under the thumb of his right hand. I touched him constantly. But it can be cured by training.
          In short, it's not just that this gun is a legend. And its weight, when shooting quickly, allows you to quickly return to the line of sight.
    2. -1
      19 February 2012 13: 58
      and where will the experience come from - only officers of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the FSB and the MO can get a gun in their hands. which firing - usually a dozen - another shots per month, respectively, shot miserable. Yes, they shoot more in special units, but their numbers ..... For the manufacturer to have experience, they need a massive shot when all structural defects are detected and there is a connection with the manufacturer.
      otherwise it turns out funny - the disease is identified, but the causes are not eliminated. They wrote that 17 modifications were made to "Alpha" in the PM, and the production was the same
    3. Novosibirsky
      +2
      19 February 2012 14: 15
      Quote: StrategBV
      and from the Western countries I dream of getting into my hands a miracle Volt Colt-1911, it’s just cool and beautiful.

      Yeah .., brothers. We do not see abundance in Russia ... ((
      Here's what, for example, a dream counter looks like ...
      1. +5
        19 February 2012 16: 03
        Yes, it's just the same erotica for the gunsmith, I want to go there, I want myself all this. This is how the contents of the closet of a real man should be drinks
        1. Novosibirsky
          +2
          19 February 2012 16: 06
          Well then, I'll show you the whole topic !!! Prepare a handkerchief, useful for tears and saliva! )))

          http://voffka.su/2010/10/tipichnyj-amerikanskij-oruzhej.html

          Here the quality is better.
          Attention, there are 2,3,4 pages!

          http://www.pbrzn.ru/index.php?topic=892.0
          1. +2
            19 February 2012 18: 53
            Yes, you are a sadist !!!.)))))) Especially AKM with a pink butt !!! good
            1. Novosibirsky
              +1
              19 February 2012 19: 31
              Quote: colonel
              Yes, you are a sadist !!!.))))))

              Yeah .., rather a masochist, watch and cry, watch and cry! crying
              Quote: colonel
              Especially AKM with a pink butt !!!

              Also drew. Yes there are many pink ghana. Girls apparently also do not want to join.
              1. Eugene
                0
                19 February 2012 20: 49
                I didn’t understand, but what about grenade launchers?
                1. Novosibirsky
                  0
                  19 February 2012 21: 02
                  There, in the forum, a person seems to answer that they hang for a force. Models.
                  1. 0
                    19 February 2012 22: 20
                    yes there in my opinion half of the dummies. Take the same long-range "cannon" that he holds with three fingers.
  9. dred
    0
    18 February 2012 13: 22
    Finally appeared in the army, tell an ordinary soldier a service gun, they give out in the army.
    1. +2
      18 February 2012 14: 09
      dred,
      and he is in the "troops", a conscript needs a lot? If only for suicide
      1. +1
        19 February 2012 12: 14
        He probably meant that they write as if conscripts were given a time sheet, but they did not. The question is not whether they need him, but what they write as if he is, but he is not. It’s like with condensed milk in a dry ration, they write as if it is there, but it’s not there, and it’s not like we would die without it, but it would be better with it drinks
  10. +3
    18 February 2012 13: 32
    The caliber is important but the applicability of the weapon is no less. 45 ACP, 40 S&W or 9para small will help if the trunk is not ergonomic. I shoot constantly and stopped at Glock 19. I consider it important to develop the skills of handling those weapons that are currently being put into service and the operation process; eliminating identified shortcomings
    1. 0
      18 February 2012 17: 58
      I don’t know. the glock is so light that you don’t want to add a couple of hundred grams. when shooting, I can’t curb him. although on the other hand, if you wear a holster every day ....
  11. +4
    18 February 2012 17: 37
    After a long period, when PM and APS dominated the army, many new models appeared, which, of course, pleases. I am not a specialist in combat pistols, I was only engaged in sports shooting from Margolin, but in the army I had a chance to shoot from a PM, I will express only one consideration. In the arms business, as in military equipment in general, there is a lot of borrowing and copying, the acquisition of production licenses is normal. The same PM was created with an eye on the "Walter" RR, and the famous "Kalashnikov", has absorbed many successful solutions, including from the German MP-44. The success and longevity of these Soviet weapons is largely predetermined by the fact that they were not created from scratch, but absorbed the evolution of the development of weapons. Why am I saying all this, maybe you don't need to start from scratch, but buy a license for the same Glock 19 or another pistol, the best in its class, and set up production, then continuing to invent your own? What is shameful in this, if we are lagging behind in what, the "Maxim" machine gun, the revolver of the Nagant, at one time were the best examples and became Russian, then Soviet.
    1. +3
      18 February 2012 23: 31
      And Mr-44 from SWT shutter skew!
    2. +3
      19 February 2012 12: 19
      My friend, maybe you’re not special, but you said it correctly and with some knowledge of the matter (at least understanding what you’re talking about), plus for this and completely agree with you, I'm glad that at least someone is like me in my thoughts drinks
      1. Pathologus
        +1
        19 February 2012 22: 13
        At least two people agree with you!
    3. +1
      20 February 2012 03: 15
      no matter how it turns out that a pistol made in Russia under a license will be very different for the worse from the original ... maybe this is one of the reasons for the lack of licensed production .. although I could be wrong ...
      1. Novosibirsky
        +1
        20 February 2012 12: 26
        Quote: Krilion
        maybe this is one of the reasons for the lack of licensed production .. although I could be wrong ...

        Glock will not sell, I wrote above how he is anxious about production. One factory in Austria, no licenses. To nobody.
  12. abkera
    0
    18 February 2012 20: 53
    I saw how they wear it, they attached it to the clip with tape from the bottom, after a year and a half of use, I stopped holding the clip securely
    1. +6
      19 February 2012 12: 28
      The workmanship so far leaves much to be desired, planes and helicopters fall due to burned parts and from purely greedy production savings. Rifle SV-98 at a price of 180 thousand rubles. made by some Chinese ornithologists, then something is not finished, then something is not cut, then in general they "forgot" to put something. Then the extra class cartridges 7.62x54R, which are considered sniper, have a large spread in weight, one has a lighter bullet, another is heavier than the norm, and the third has something wrong with the powder charge. In short, with our military-industrial complex as in a field of miracles, a prize or money, you either pay more and take something from foreigners, or you don't know what you take from ours. This is all sad and insulting, especially for such infinitely optimistic patriots like me. It is especially offensive when something really good, like the KA-62 "Kasatka" falls down and does not succeed due to the fact that some not good person in production saved money and replaced the usual one with a left part made of plywood on his knee. About our military-industrial complex, I say this: not explicable, but fact. And the PYa pistol itself is not bad, a little to do and bring the workmanship to the norm, and it will become a candy good
      1. Pathologus
        0
        19 February 2012 22: 14
        He’s far from candy, but at a decent level he’ll do it!
  13. Dmitry10
    -1
    19 February 2012 22: 41
    I agree with StrategBV, there is simply no quality, because we do not like to work. There are developments and I'm sure no worse than Glock, but everything has been done for the enemies. There are many cases that Amer. soldiers are fighting AK, but preferring not the Russian assembly. I can imagine that if PYs start to be assembled at a plant in Austria, then the demand for these products would be no worse than for their original designs.
  14. mind1954
    -1
    20 February 2012 00: 19
    All this kindergarten chatter has to be read by a person,
    who gave this military-industrial complex 30 years and which 17 years ago
    thrown into the street, as they said that to develop
    nothing else is needed, and whose developments are used
    so far, and who has witnessed how this defense industry
    killed in cold blood and prudently!
    You discuss the gun - I will be happy to read the comments
    people who understand this, since I’m an electronic engineer myself,
    although I also love "pieces of iron" !!!
    And before you open your mouth about political
    questions, let me learn a little, not demonstrate
    on the site its programmed parrot stupidity!
    Take an example from your idol GDP. Be silent, you will marry a clever !!!

    Each of us has the opportunity to "make peace", which
    "from behind the hill" organizes through its fascist "fifth column"
    protest "swamp", "Sakharov" vigils and ERov fascist
    bastards creating anti-protests against the "orange" protests.

    Simply, you have to go and vote for the Communist Party program, support it
    and achieve confiscational nationalization of basic and commodity sectors
    economy.
    Private capital should be only productive!

    After that, the very object of "discord" and the transnational
    capital will not need to "freely" and "democratically" dispose of
    our raw materials, and our thieves and traitors will stop
    "steadily" plunder and sell the country.

    The clash of "foreign" and domestic fascists will lose its meaning,
    and the people of our country, at least, will have something to protect in their homeland!
    1. 0
      20 February 2012 00: 45
      Quote: mind1954
      need to go and vote for the Communist Party program

      again revolutionaries ??? thanks, not even though, and there’s a lot of crap. And what can’t you just write the name of the candidate ??? Or ... ahhh .. agitation
      1. mind1954
        0
        21 February 2012 03: 30
        And so, it still hasn’t yet come to the point that it is not necessary to vote for individuals
        with promises, but for the programs?
        And if something happens to the person tomorrow?

        And so I see this swollen mug with swimming evil piggy eyes.
        And in the ears they sound: "They don't give him anything to do!" and "Yeltsin is a real Russian man!"
    2. Novosibirsky
      +1
      20 February 2012 00: 59
      Quote: mind1954
      You discuss the gun - I will be happy to read the comments

      And you did not see comments in the article? Or just unanswered questions?

      Quote: mind1954
      And before you open your mouth about political
      questions, let me learn a little, not demonstrate
      on the site its programmed parrot stupidity!


      And not a reasoned insult to stupidity? )))


      Quote: mind1954
      Simply, you have to go and vote for the Communist Party program, support it
      and achieve confiscational nationalization of basic and commodity sectors
      economy.


      And where did you start the post? From the fact that they offered us a gun to discuss, but do not get into politics with our intellect, but what do you do?

      Quote: mind1954
      Simply, you have to go and vote for the Communist Party’s program,


      That was where you had to start! And speak with reason. And do not provoke swara.
      You, sir, need to learn politeness to begin with, and not to shove us shit here! We ate the dog on such "figures".
    3. 0
      20 February 2012 22: 12
      You tell this to whom ???
  15. +1
    20 February 2012 00: 23
    Quote: mind1954
    idol GDP
    With a mockery like that. And an alternative to it? Yes, there are a lot of jambs at the VVP, but it does the job, not always as we would like, so "friends" "help" -which oh, how many in .. no .. at the top
    1. Novosibirsky
      +2
      20 February 2012 01: 04
      Quote: Reks
      With a mockery like that.


      And don’t say brother. Already you will leave political topics, like in a monastery, so that they can’t take out the brain, they will get it here. Had these elections been held sooner or something ...))
      1. +1
        20 February 2012 01: 08
        Quote: NovoSibirets
        so that they can’t stand the brain

        drinks they will always be. This is their hobbyhorse. Oops, who did you fight with? Something like cardboard epaulettes became clean as conscience? drinks
        1. Novosibirsky
          +3
          20 February 2012 01: 18
          Quote: Reks
          Who the hell was he fighting with? Something like cardboard epaulettes became clean as conscience?

          Himself canceled. New account.
          For many reasons .., there is no desire to voice.
          1. +1
            20 February 2012 01: 26
            catch plus ... than I can. wink
            1. Novosibirsky
              +1
              20 February 2012 01: 30
              Thanks of course, but no need, Reks! )))
              If I needed pluses, I would not be canceled of my own free will.