Military Review

“Almaty” instead of ships: details of the HPV program

82
HPV-2025 - state armaments program for 2018-2025 years. This document determines how much and what kind of equipment should be produced and delivered to our armed forces. Of course, starting from the direction of the program is created and the further development of the Russian armed forces.




The program will be approved in June-July of this year.

Understandably, the details are kept secret. But if we analyze the speeches and interviews of people involved in this program (Dmitry Rogozin, Yuri Borisov and others), we can already draw preliminary conclusions.

The main task of the Russian military-industrial complex, as it was repeatedly stated at the highest level (Putin, Shoigu), was to bring the equipment level of the armed forces to 2020 by 70 in the year.

Here interests of several departments collide. This is the army, enterprises of the military industrial complex, and the Ministry of Finance. In the 2015 year, when work began on creating the LG, the Ministry of Defense requested trillion rubles for the 55 program. Later in 2016, the amount was adjusted to 30 trillions. The Ministry of Finance was ready to allocate to the program not more than 12 trillion.

Of course, sanctions, crises and so on have played their part, and I think that as a result, the parties will come to an agreement on the figure in 15-18 trillions of rubles.

By the time the program was to act with 2016 2025 for years. But, since the economic situation in our country really leaves much to be desired, it is worth remembering that the already financed part of the WPW for the 2011-2020 years has not yet been fully completed. And for this part 20 trillions of rubles were allocated.

Rogozin says that all unspent and untapped funds will be transferred to the next program. Apparently, in the calculations and the whole problem.

But today we can conclude that there will be less money. Even taking into account that does not have time to learn under the previous program. And little by little the information is leaking about who at the expense of whom the LG program will be squeezed.

I'll start with sad (for someone) news about what will NOT happen.

Most of the cuts affected the fleet.

Superavianostsev nuclear project "Storm" will not. They are not simply shelved, and the "indefinite period." What in our realities can be equated to the fact that if the aircraft carriers go into final development, it will definitely not be in the next 10-15 years.

The same applies to the destroyers of the project "Leader". Unlike an aircraft carrier, all work on them was postponed until a year after 2025.

Yes, it’s obvious that we don’t have much money with finances, so it may be promising, but expensive ships are postponed “for later”.

At the same time, the fleet cannot be said to have “offended”. In the LG-2025 fleet will receive funds for the repair, modernization and completion more than any other kind of troops.

"Boreas" will keep the same pace of construction. This is ours weapon the protection and revenge with missile submarines okay.

Nuclear-powered icebreakers of project 22220 will be completed as part of the GPV. “Arctic”, “Siberia” and “Ural”. What does atomic icebreakers have to do with military the fleet? It is easy to read. In general, the program for the construction of ships and vessels for the Arctic will not be cut by a single ruble. So many say, referring to the task given by the president.

In the Arctic grouping under the LG-2025, work will also be continued with the icebreaker Ilya Muromets and the universal patrol ships of the Arctic zone of the 23550 project.

Repairs and upgrades.

It is clear that in the conditions of crisis and other problems, the main burden of work will fall on the “old men”. As part of the GPV, the modernization of Peter the Great, Admiral Kuznetsov, and Moscow will be carried out.

It would be nice, by the way, to finish the repair of "Admiral Nakhimov."

In general, the fleet will not suffer. Yes, the promising aircraft carriers and destroyers postponed. But today, our fleet has a more important task than aircraft carriers. The Syrian Express showed that we have a shortage of less expensive, but more significant ships and vessels.

VCS.

There are also abbreviations here.

Although under the videoconferencing, funding cuts will not hit hard. Emphasis will be placed on deliveries to aviation parts of the Su-30SM, Su-34, Su-35 combat aircraft well-tested by the Syrian war, Mi-8AMTSh, Mi-28N and Ka-52 helicopters, as well as S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems.

C-400, which are supplied to the troops in the number of 4-5 regimental kits per year, are likely to prefer the promising C-500. Until more stable times.

Apparently the same thing will happen to PAK YES. Another promising, but very expensive project. Of course, PAK YES will be implemented, but not in the LG-2025.

Moreover, we are developing a project to upgrade the Tu-160 before modifying the Tu-160М2. Most likely, the Tu-160М2 will go into a series before the 2025 of the year and will serve. Two projects of strategic bombers at the same time are not all rich countries can afford.

But the first serial fighter T-50 in the framework of the LG-2025 should already be in parts and at airfields.

In addition, much attention is paid to transport aviation. It was within the framework of the LG-2025 that the Il-112 light vehicles and the medium Il-214 should start coming to the troops. The role of heavy transport aircraft is still assigned to the IL-76 of all modifications.

Ground troops.

The figure of 70% for new technology by 2020 is serious. And the pace should be appropriate. Yes, the share of the same new tanks by 2020 will be 70%. But not at the expense of Armat, but at the expense of T-72B3.

“Armata” is not put off for long, but we are no longer talking about hundreds of new tanks, but more modest figures. 20-30 tanks per year is most likely the exact amount that can be expected in a “trimmed” budget.

Nevertheless, this number of tanks will provide both the initial stage of training for crews and specialists, as well as running-in of new equipment in the army.

So "Armata" will be in the army, albeit not in such numbers as everyone expected, but still we can talk about mass production.

But to see in the BMP series "Kurganets-25" and BTR "Boomerang" we can, most likely, only after the 2025 year. Both cars had to be modified according to the wishes of the military, and refinement in the conditions of lack of money does not speed up the process.

A few more words about air defense. In the GW-2025 program, the air defense systems received more attention than in the GW-2011 program. According to reports, the deliveries of the Buk-М3, Tor-М2, С-300В4, С1 Carapace, the Shilka and Tungusk complexes will not be changed, but may even be increased.

Of course, you need to have the full protection guarantee from the fans to wave "axes".

There are two more promising developments that will not play in the backlash, and the work on them will not be minimized. This rocket "Sarmat" and BZHDRK "Barguzin".

In general, it is still difficult to say who will emerge victorious from the desire of the Ministry of Defense to get everything and quickly and opposing the Ministry of Finance in the desire not to allow budget money to be spent on expensive toys from tomorrow. All will show the final auction, which will be held in June of this year.

Talking about things that are worse: greed or the need to get money for everything at once is difficult.

On the one hand, we really need everything. And more. And the new, preferably unparalleled in the rest of the world. But, probably, it is worth setting real goals after all. Atomic aircraft carrier, this, of course, great. Shock power, prestige and all that.

However, the ongoing operation in Syria has shown that we have more than enough urgent problems, including in terms of the fleet. I mean, wherever possible, dry cargo ships that were suddenly needed to supply the operation. It is good that the Turks had something to sell and rent out. And thanks to the Mongols for mediating the purchase of a vessel from Ukraine.

It is difficult, of course, to recover and compensate for everything lost earlier. But - it is necessary, because we are talking about the country's defense. Let's see what the parties will come to in June.
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  1. Same lech
    Same lech April 11 2017 06: 40
    +8
    It’s good that the Turks found what to sell and rent out. And thanks to the Mongols, for mediation in the purchase of a vessel from Ukraine.


    Mdya .. and laughter and sin.

    Votsna sucks up the state’s resources like a sieve of water ... therefore, if you aim at some ambitious tasks, you must first build muscle in the economy ... while our state is weak here ... no one will help us except ourselves.
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee April 11 2017 06: 58
      13
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      . No one will help us except ourselves.

      Yeah! The oligarchs stopped exporting foreign currency and rushed to help the military-industrial complex! Who lard, who two, blow, well, how much can! bully
      1. Same lech
        Same lech April 11 2017 07: 03
        33
        Yeah! The oligarchs stopped exporting foreign currency and rushed to help the military-industrial complex! Who lard, who two, blow, well, how much can! bully


        Russia is the same wonderland as AFGHANISTAN ... natural resources are being drained from it to the WEST and given out as an achievement of the economy.
        The number of Russian billionaires is going beyond all reasonable limits, and here our people still manage to maintain our army, a bunch of useless officials, believe in a good king ... in general, brains start to boil from all this mess.
      2. Bastinda
        Bastinda April 11 2017 08: 52
        12
        They will, if milked correctly. Joseph Vissarionovich had the title, the best milker.
        1. Pirogov
          Pirogov April 11 2017 19: 01
          0
          Quote: Bastinda
          They will, if milked correctly. Joseph Vissarionovich had the title, the best milker.

          I agree ! The main thing ... the right approach .................
          1. Kenneth
            Kenneth April 11 2017 20: 00
            0
            Nickname Sharikov?
      3. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk April 13 2017 22: 12
        +3
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        . No one will help us except ourselves.

        Yeah! The oligarchs stopped exporting foreign currency and rushed to help the military-industrial complex! Who lard, who two, blow, well, how much can! bully

        At the beginning, look at the amount of allocated but not utilized funds and ask a question - why not mastered? Obviously, the defense industry is not able to quickly increase production. So, there is not only a lack of funds.
    2. siberalt
      siberalt April 11 2017 07: 45
      +2
      All these "interests" boil down to one thing - how to grab more money from the state.
      1. Kenneth
        Kenneth April 11 2017 20: 01
        +3
        Managers of state corporations are most likely to dig in the country.
    3. RASKAT
      RASKAT April 11 2017 10: 15
      14
      What do you want? Initially, it was clear that the rearmament program was not calculated correctly. Most importantly, they did not take into account that enterprises that were to produce the latest models were equipped with obsolete machine tools, technologies, and workers. From here and all the consequences.
      I well remember how in 2012 the landing from the Ministry of Defense came to our aluminum plant. With the proposal, even with the requirement to make parts for the defense industry. In the period of the USSR, the plant produced a full range of products for airplanes, helicopters, BMD, etc. And now only consumer goods, pots, corners, tubes. And recovery is hardly possible with the current owners, and more than one billion money is needed there, workers must be trained, etc. So the landing party left deeply disappointed. I think this example applies to other enterprises. Here you can apply a simple calculation, if the government took care of this (restoration of enterprises, machine-building, etc.) in 2012, then the results should wait for years through 5-7, (plus sanctions have also struck us and severing relations with Ukraine) and while training personnel, we will build and modernize enterprises. So it turns out that from 2017-19 years it is worth waiting for the first results.
    4. iouris
      iouris April 12 2017 00: 45
      +1
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      you must first build muscle in the economy

      No. The economy is technology, and technology is either bought in the United States or developed to protect against the United States. Russia is under sanctions forever. Do not expect to be canceled. We need to learn how to introduce military technology in the production of consumer goods and produce only competitive products. Everything else in the country is available with the exception of the population. About 250-300 million people are needed. Those. There is no alternative to rebuilding a destroyed country.
  2. populist
    populist April 11 2017 06: 49
    +6
    There will be no nuclear supercarriers of the Storm project.

    And rightly so. good
  3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 11 2017 07: 09
    +5
    Well, what can I say? :) I don’t know where the information used by Roman to write the article is coming from, but in general, we really need to wait for June and watch the approved GPV program, and everything will be clear there.
    If the forecasts regarding the fleet are correct, then the fleet is not that it will not suffer, the fleet will simply cease to exist. Although there will still have to watch the program of repairs and upgrades.
    The construction of the Su-34 and Su-35 as a whole is understandable and justified, but the Su-30SM? The number of Armats also, to put it mildly, disappoints
    1. demiurg
      demiurg April 11 2017 14: 04
      +6
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Well, what can I say? :) I don’t know where the information used by Roman to write the article is coming from, but in general, we really need to wait for June and watch the approved GPV program, and everything will be clear there.
      If the forecasts regarding the fleet are correct, then the fleet is not that it will not suffer, the fleet will simply cease to exist. Although there will still have to watch the program of repairs and upgrades.
      The construction of the Su-34 and Su-35 as a whole is understandable and justified, but the Su-30SM? The number of Armats also, to put it mildly, disappoints

      Continue the conversation about the need for aircraft carriers for Russia?
      Why do we think that if the United States has aircraft carriers, then we should have them? When will we understand that the United States is a great power and can afford aircraft carriers, and not aircraft carriers, make America great? At the moment, 150 million Russians cannot compete with 300 million Americans. The same can be said of Leaders.
      Russia at the moment is not so dependent on export oil as the United States. It is oil, and it is the liquid that is extracted from shale or bitumen sands of Canada. Everything can be made from real oil, from gasoline to plastic That is, for Russia, it is not dangerous for the state to stop the supply of oil from abroad. Even our oil and gas is exported by 90% through pipelines. Russia does not need to guard the straits and routes from the BV to Cushing.
      The fleet will most likely receive weapons of containment, Borea and Ash-tree, most likely it will receive frigates and corvettes + diesel submarines. Under time pressure this is enough.
      20-30 Armature for testing production and detecting defects for the eyes. For three years there will be a regiment, which, if necessary, can be used in local conflicts such as 08.08.08/72/90. The tank of the great war will remain T-XNUMX or T-XNUMX.
      By the way, about the PAK FA not a word ((
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 11 2017 14: 38
        +3
        Quote: demiurg
        Continue the conversation about the need for aircraft carriers for Russia?

        Yes easily
        Quote: demiurg
        Why do we think that if the United States has aircraft carriers, then we should have them? When will we understand that the United States is a great power and can afford aircraft carriers, and not aircraft carriers, make America great?

        You see, we are also a great power :)))
        Quote: demiurg
        At the moment, 150 million Russians cannot compete with 300 million Americans.

        Can not. But no one proposes the creation of 11 AUGs as the United States. Or even 5 AUG, in proportion to the population. it is about creating a single aircraft carrier, the construction of which will stretch for at least 10 years, after which the economic situation will change 33 times
        Quote: demiurg
        Weapons of containment, Borea and Ash-tree fleet will receive

        7 Ashes instead of 28 multipurpose and missile (not SSBN) nuclear submarines as part of the Navy? Who will this hold back?
        Quote: demiurg
        most likely will receive frigates

        6 ships up to 2025 g including Gorshkov? Not even funny somehow
        Quote: demiurg
        20-30 Armature for testing production and detecting defects for the eyes. For three years there will be a regiment

        I propose not to share the skin of an unkilled hamster. GPV will be born before 2025 - we all will find out, and seriously discussing rumors from the media would be somehow strange
        1. demiurg
          demiurg April 11 2017 14: 49
          +3
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Quote: demiurg
          Continue the conversation about the need for aircraft carriers for Russia?

          Yes easily
          Quote: demiurg
          Why do we think that if the United States has aircraft carriers, then we should have them? When will we understand that the United States is a great power and can afford aircraft carriers, and not aircraft carriers, make America great?

          You see, we are also a great power :)))
          Quote: demiurg
          At the moment, 150 million Russians cannot compete with 300 million Americans.

          Can not. But no one proposes the creation of 11 AUGs as the United States. Or even 5 AUG, in proportion to the population. it is about creating a single aircraft carrier, the construction of which will stretch for at least 10 years, after which the economic situation will change 33 times
          Quote: demiurg
          Weapons of containment, Borea and Ash-tree fleet will receive

          7 Ashes instead of 28 multipurpose and missile (not SSBN) nuclear submarines as part of the Navy? Who will this hold back?
          Quote: demiurg
          most likely will receive frigates

          6 ships up to 2025 g including Gorshkov? Not even funny somehow
          Quote: demiurg
          20-30 Armature for testing production and detecting defects for the eyes. For three years there will be a regiment

          I propose not to share the skin of an unkilled hamster. GPV will be born before 2025 - we all will find out, and seriously discussing rumors from the media would be somehow strange


          1. Great powers have a great economy. Rather, on the contrary, a powerful economy makes a great power. And we are currently selling the remnants of our oil and live off the technical backlog created during the USSR.
          2. Why? Both pools of the Black Sea and Baltic easily and naturally overlap from the shore. In the Far East, we have no obvious enemies. Japan and islands? Not funny, they would certainly be happy, but so far there is no 100% protection against ICBMs, they will not go anywhere. And a good part of Japan is blocked by front-line aviation. The deployment of Boreev can be covered by coastal aviation, and they can also shoot at the pier.
          3. One Ash-tree covering its Borea and all. Then the war is not planned.
          4. And what is the point of building them if there is no established production of gas turbine engines?
          5. I agree.
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 11 2017 15: 28
            +3
            Quote: demiurg
            Great powers have a great economy. Rather, on the contrary, a powerful economy makes a great power

            Well, PPP GDP as of 2015 is the 6th in the world, so I don’t see any particular problems here. The Russian Empire had similar indicators.
            Quote: demiurg
            And we are currently selling the remnants of our oil

            The share of the entire mining industry in the GDP of the Russian Federation is 10,1%
            Quote: demiurg
            What for?

            For the fleet — for experience working with carrier-based aviation, for politicians — for diplomacy, for shipbuilders — so that they don’t forget about large-tonnage military construction, the airborne forces — finally, give a normal, small AWAC at a reasonable price, rather than shaking over several surviving A-50s and not torment themselves monsters of type A-100, for which there are no avionics anyway.
            Quote: demiurg
            One Ash covering his Borean and all.

            This is not a cover, but a suicide. There is a PLO area in which we should have everything under control. In which case, the RKPKSN leaves the port and breaks at full speed in a predetermined direction. The point is that at this moment he is a “roaring cow”, but any “moose” will either have to lag behind or drown the afterburner himself and become the “roaring cow” himself, because all boats make noise at high speed - both noisy and silent Well, here's the task of covering up to track the "roaring moose" and nail, so that it was not disastrous. How do you solve this problem with Ashen on Borea?
            Quote: demiurg
            And what is the point of building them if there is no established production of gas turbine engines?

            Therefore, the atomic leader is needed
            Quote: demiurg
            I agree.

            Well and good :)
            1. demiurg
              demiurg April 11 2017 15: 42
              0
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

              1. Well, our PPP GDP as of 2015 is the 6th in the world, so I don’t see any particular problems here. The Russian Empire had similar indicators.
              2. The share of all extractive industries in Russia's GDP is 10,1%
              3. The fleet - for experience working with carrier-based aviation, politicians - for diplomacy, shipbuilders - so as not to forget about large-tonnage military construction, VKS - to finally give a normal small DRL at a reasonable price, and not to jolt over several surviving A-50s and not torture yourself with monsters like A-100, for which there’s no avionics anyway.
              4. This is not a cover, but a suicide. There is a PLO area in which we should have everything under control. In which case, the RKPKSN leaves the port and breaks at full speed in a predetermined direction. The point is that at this moment he is a “roaring cow”, but any “moose” will either have to lag behind or drown the afterburner himself and become the “roaring cow” himself, because all boats make noise at high speed - both noisy and silent Well, here's the task of covering up to track the "roaring moose" and nail, so that it was not disastrous. How do you solve this problem with Ashen on Borea?

              5. Therefore, the atomic leader is needed


              1. Well, Russia was used by France and England as well as Turkey or Austria-Hungary, Germany used in the first meat grinder.
              2. And in the export?
              3. That is, an aircraft carrier is needed to build a compact AWACS aircraft? lol
              Judging by the way we normally build submarines, shipbuilders have experience. Financing, that is, there is no state interest.
              4. I doubt that if something happens it will come so suddenly that the nuclear powered ships will break at 25-30 knots. Russia still seems to be in the lead in marine mining. The position area in the north can also be closed with mines, minesweepers with fiberglass hulls in the ice of niochin. And mines can be thrown from planes.
              5. Yeah, one leader for each of the fleets and that’s all, no money))
              It would be better to do something like 1135p for hiking and border guards. With weakened weapons and normal habitability. They can represent the flag and stand up for themselves in the fight against the Papuans; seven Ash-trees will be thrown in gauges when needed.
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 11 2017 17: 25
                +3
                Quote: demiurg
                Well, Russia was used by France and England as well as Turkey or Austria-Hungary, Germany used in the first meat grinder.

                You have a slightly perverse impression of PMV. With the same success we can say that Russia used England and France for their own purposes.
                Quote: demiurg
                And in the export?

                Approximately 64% in 2015
                Quote: demiurg
                That is, an aircraft carrier is needed to build a compact AWACS aircraft?

                No, not needed. AWACS is a testament to the fact that carrier-based technologies are useful for other areas of weapons. By the way, I forgot the electromagnetic cat remote control. Someone is racing on electromagnetic trains, and we are all the old fashioned way ....
                Quote: demiurg
                Judging by the way we normally build submarines, shipbuilders have experience.

                Ash has a displacement of 8600 tons. This is a medium-sized ship.
                Quote: demiurg
                I doubt that in which case it will come so suddenly that nuclear powered ships will break at 25-30 knots.

                You do not understand, I will try to explain again. What I described in a hurry has nothing to do with it at all.
                The SSBNs are patronized quite tightly, and I assure you that during the threatened period, in the area of ​​their Virginia and Elk bases, they will spawn like herring in a barrel. While the boat is running silently (especially in northern hydrography), hearing it is very difficult and not always possible, even during the Soviet era.
                Therefore, you can safely leave the base, calmly go to the combat deployment area ... and at the same time wonder if you have a pair of Elks hanging on your tail. At the same time, until recently, sadly, they surpassed us in terms of the combination of HAC characteristics and low noise.
                And how to make your persecutors reveal themselves? It is very simple - to make them roar across the ocean, giving full speed. Well, if the SSBN escapes at full speed, what should Elk do? Where the SSBN should go - the buoy knows where it will go from full to low noise - also, therefore, it will be impossible to ambush in advance in that unknown place, unless by luck.
                And the cover of the PLO area should be sufficient to identify and nail the next moose in full swing. And to do this, when there are 885 Virginia for one 5 it will be "a little" difficult. There is no nuclear submarine, there is no carrier-based aviation (the fierce enemy of the submariner), there is a basic one, but it really cannot be covered from the coast in the air, in general ... it’s sad.
                Quote: demiurg
                Russia still seems to be in the lead in marine mining. The position area in the north can be closed with mines

                And you have a great sense of humor! In order to cover the miserable 130 km of the Gulf of Finland, the Germans needed 21 thousand mines, but our submariners still managed to go to the Baltic ...
                Quote: demiurg
                Yeah, one leader for each of the fleets and that’s all, no money))

                So no?
                Quote: demiurg
                It would be better to do something like 1135p for hiking and border guards.

                Only someone wrote above
                Quote: demiurg
                And what is the point of building them if there is no established production of gas turbine engines?

                Do not remind who exactly? :)))
    2. shans2
      shans2 April 13 2017 11: 43
      0
      God, what nonsense do you constantly bring this .... words can’t describe why the SU-30SM doesn’t suit you, would you even know the difference between 2 crew members and 1 crew? and that the SU-35 is primarily a plane to gain supremacy in the air, then it was already a station wagon for other purposes ...
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 13 2017 20: 38
        +3
        Quote: shans2
        God, what nonsense are you constantly carrying this .... words can not describe

        Calm down, honey.
        Quote: shans2
        what does the SU-30SM not suit you, would you even feel the difference between 2 in the crew and the 1st?

        And go learn the materiel. We have a very good strike aircraft, the Su-34, for working on land and on water. There are a crew of 2 people and an excellent range of weapons and all-all-all. And we have a very good fighter for gaining air superiority, the Su-35. And these two aircraft complement each other perfectly, allowing you to solve all the problems inherent in the class of fighter-bomber aircraft
        And we also have the Su-30SM. This is such a machine, occupying an intermediate value between the Su-35 and Su-34. In principle, it can be the same as the Su-34 and Su-35, only worse.
        Of course you can say that universality is our everything. But you see, what a misfortune - although the designers, obedient boys, created universal planes, but the genetics, these wacky wiseacres, still have not brought out the breed of universal pilots. You can prepare a fighter pilot, and in order for him to achieve the highest skill, he will fly for many years and tirelessly improve in the theory and practice of air combat. And the same can be said about those who have chosen the profession of working on ground and surface targets.
        That is, a high-class fighter pilot, of course, can work on the ground, but much worse than a pilot bomber. And vice versa, the "bomber" in principle owns the technique of aerial combat, but will not pull against the fighter.
        Therefore, in any case, there will be either bombers or fighter jets at the helm of the Su-30. In the first case, it will be inferior to the Su-34, in the second - the Su-35. Some relatively small number of Su-30s (primarily for training purposes) could be delivered to the videoconferencing, but now they are being stamped not because they are needed by the videoconferencing, but because Irkut, which stamps it, except for the Su- 30 and the Yak-130 (and this is not a very successful aircraft) can’t do anything military, so they give him a job so that he doesn’t bend.
        In general, if you don’t know something, ask, I will tell laughing
  4. Altona
    Altona April 11 2017 07: 55
    +7
    Quote: The same LYOKHA
    The number of Russian billionaires is going beyond all reasonable limits, and here our people still manage to maintain our army, a bunch of useless officials, believe in a good king ... in general, brains start to boil from all this mess.

    -----------------------------
    If the number of rich people in the country is growing, then this means that there is no “crisis” in the country, it’s just that more cynical exploitation of workers and personnel is going on under this mute. But we have a "social state".
    1. ADmA_RUS
      ADmA_RUS April 11 2017 09: 39
      +3
      Immediately visible "economist".
      In crises, the number of rich always grows. For if the people get poor then the money goes into the pockets of the most successful.
  5. Baloo
    Baloo April 11 2017 08: 14
    +5
    There will be no nuclear supercarriers of the Storm project. They were not just put off the shelf, but “indefinitely.” The Syrian Express showed that we have a shortage of less expensive, but more significant ships and vessels.
    And this is good, you need to deal with social programs and pensions, enough reforms from the people.
    The same applies to the destroyers of the Leader project. We need to think again, destroyers are needed, as well as submarines and landing ships.
    Nuclear-powered icebreakers of Project 22220 will be completed as part of the GPV. “Arctic”, “Siberia” and “Ural”. What does atomic icebreakers have to do with the navy? It is easy to read. In general, the program for the construction of ships and vessels for the Arctic will not be cut by a single ruble. This is good ... But how did it happen that the foreigners won the tender for the concept of the development of the Northern Sea Route? sad
    Of course, you need to have the full protection guarantee from the fans to wave "axes".
    All AOs in the defense industry undergo an independent audit annually (according to the story on TC Zvezda). How did it happen that all audit companies with access to state secrets and conducting audits in the defense industry are FOREIGN (!!!). You don’t even need to send spies to sworn partners, an audit will show how much they release, who the suppliers are, etc. etc. Yo ... just ... uh ... db. fool
    1. DenZ
      DenZ April 11 2017 11: 35
      0
      Quote: Balu
      How did it happen that all audit companies with access to state secrets and conducting audits in the defense industry are FOREIGN (!!!).

      Why do you think so?
      1. Baloo
        Baloo April 11 2017 11: 43
        +5
        DenZ Where did you get this?
        The day before yesterday at Zvezda shopping center, we were talking about 4 foreign companies that conduct audits at defense companies and have access to state secrets. At the same time, there was a reference to Rogozin's indignation. hi
        And unsinkable red ... Solovyov-Satanovsky on Vesti-FM: a unique quartz glass was developed by order of the military, Rusnano is building a factory and ... selling it to a foreign investor. Question: Is the factory sold with technology? Those. now Russia will buy glass at a factory built with its own money, and then if this factory is not redesigned. A similar story 20 years ago: one of the American prosessor-polytechnologists (CIA personnel regiment), who helped EBN in the elections, bought up a block of shares of the company in the Moscow region for 400 thousand bucks, without which rockets, fighters and bombers could not fly. The Chekists in time squeezed the prosessor. The plans of the prosessor were to reprofile production. Something like this. And when they tell me in the zombie box that penguins are to blame for global warming on the one hand, polar bears on the other hand, rubbing on the earth’s axis, I’m just quietly furious ... angry
  6. Ascetic
    Ascetic April 11 2017 08: 56
    +3
    The draft document was reviewed by the board of the military-industrial complex in March of this year. It’s too early to talk about pnioritas, and even more so about the amount of financing, since it is necessary to take into account those expenses of the ГПВ -2020 that will be transferred to the new program, so far this issue has not been agreed, so discussing something on this topic is premature and pointless, unless of course the goal is lobby for any topic or in the spirit of the liberals to tighten the mantra-Chef, everything is gone! Plaster is removed, the client leaves, etc.
    From open sources it is known

    Source: GPV-2025 will focus on intelligent weapons systems

    The emphasis in the new state armament program of Russia for 2018-2025 (GPV-2025) was decided to make on serial purchases of "intelligent weapons systems".
    Among the priority areas of development are military-space defense means of strategic nuclear forces, communication, reconnaissance, command and control electronic warfare systems, as well as drones and shock robots.
    ы

    The emphasis in the new state armament program of Russia for 2018-2025 (GPV-2025) was decided to make on serial purchases of "intelligent weapons systems".

    Also among the priority areas of development are military-space defense assets of strategic nuclear forces, communication, reconnaissance, command and control electronic warfare systems, as well as drones and shock robots.


    In addition, according to RIA Novosti, the emphasis will be on the development of transport aircraft, precision weapons, means of dealing with them, as well as personal protective equipment for military personnel.
  7. Old26
    Old26 April 11 2017 09: 05
    0
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Well, what can I say? :) I don’t know where the information used by Roman to write the article is coming from, but in general, we really need to wait for June and watch the approved GPV program, and everything will be clear there.
    If the forecasts regarding the fleet are correct, then the fleet is not that it will not suffer, the fleet will simply cease to exist. Although there will still have to watch the program of repairs and upgrades.
    The construction of the Su-34 and Su-35 as a whole is understandable and justified, but the Su-30SM? The number of Armats also, to put it mildly, disappoints

    What Roman wrote is no secret. One way or another, these "rumors" are circulated in our media. And after June, all these rumors will acquire exclusively "quantitative" content, no more.
    The number of "Armat" in the number of battalion units per move is not just disappointing, but rather perplexing. S-400 air defense systems deliver in the amount of 4-5 regiment sets per year, and tanks in the amount of the battalion? It turns out that in order to equip at least the troops of the Southern District with new tanks, it will take a decade, no less? And all the armed forces?
    As for strategic complexes, the Sarmatians are shifted to the right, it is not yet known how much, but at least the BIs have been shifted more than six months from the last date. “Barguzin” —that would really have to be postponed for a year to 2025. The project is expensive, for this money you can re-equip a couple of divisions of the Strategic Missile Forces
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 11 2017 09: 29
      +3
      Quote: Old26
      One way or another, these "rumors" are exaggerated in our media

      As the classic said, "Rumors from afar are rarely true."
      Quote: Old26
      It turns out that in order to equip at least the troops of the Southern District with new tanks, it will take a decade, no less?

      Well, now the T-72B3 will be considered an ultra-modern tank. The party said: “it is necessary!” :)))
      Quote: Old26
      “Barguzin” - that’s it really would have been necessary to move the year to 2025.

      In truth, I would move it to 2050. Or at 3025. Well, why? We have a gigantic country, it’s just right to build the McDonalds for the Tomahawks so that they can rest while they fly to the missile mines. As for me - mine ICBMs + ICBMs on the SSBN + KR with nuclear warheads on long-range aviation for the eyes.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 11 2017 13: 59
      +1
      Quote: Old26
      The number of "Armat" in the number of battalion units per move is not just disappointing, but rather perplexing. S-400 air defense systems deliver in the amount of 4-5 regiment sets per year, and tanks in the amount of the battalion?

      Whether the Armata is a serial licked tank, then yes, a battalion unit per year is not enough. But we don’t have such “armata” yet.
      And to break in the "Almaty" as part of a real unit, with army crews, supplies and repairs, this amount is enough. All the same, according to the results of military operation, the machine will have to be modified.
  8. activator
    activator April 11 2017 09: 15
    13
    It looks like the guys the concept of an energy superpower is collapsing, you need to create a technological superpower, but while the oligarchs are sitting on wells and pipes, then the maximum in which technological projects will be their investments are yachts at the price of the mistral and other show-offs, even if they wanted to hold onto the crisis. And recently I learned that in Russia there is a committee on pseudoscience, it’s generally a direct holy inquisition and all developments against gas and oil will be anathematized.
    1. Machete
      Machete April 11 2017 09: 47
      +1
      You download there, sir, download.
      we’ll figure it out without you.
      1. activator
        activator April 11 2017 10: 22
        +6
        Quote: Machete
        You download there, sir, download.
        we’ll figure it out without you.

        Vladimir Vladimirovich, I’m sorry I didn’t admit once you said that I believe I’ll understand. yes
  9. Kenneth
    Kenneth April 11 2017 09: 28
    0
    Maybe it’s worth the extra tax to introduce 10% income interest on defense. I figured that about 2,5 trillion per year can be obtained
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona April 11 2017 09: 50
      +4
      The economy will collapse even more then, and 2.5 plus will be offset by 5-6 minus.
      1. Kenneth
        Kenneth April 11 2017 10: 48
        0
        The turnover of retail chains will collapse by 5 percent and the tax on these networks that is, total losses of less than half a percent
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona April 11 2017 13: 38
          +2
          And wholesale warehouses, and transport companies, and industries, and construction, etc.
          1. Kenneth
            Kenneth April 11 2017 15: 11
            +1
            You're not right. Only retail.
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona April 11 2017 16: 42
              +2
              Ie that people will buy less dummies, the plant producing dummies will not suffer losses? A company delivering teapots to the store will not suffer losses? A company that stores kettles in the wholesale warehouse will not suffer losses?
              1. Kenneth
                Kenneth April 11 2017 18: 16
                0
                Do not worry about suppliers. They compensate for prices or wages. But retail in a competitive price environment is not particularly play. But in any case, the losses are scanty.
                1. Blackmokona
                  Blackmokona April 11 2017 20: 46
                  0
                  If suppliers raise prices, then retail chains will raise prices automatically and sales will fall even more.
                  1. Kenneth
                    Kenneth April 11 2017 21: 46
                    0
                    Is not a fact
                    Believe me. For three years I have been engaged in prime cost and formation in this gadyushnik.
  10. Machete
    Machete April 11 2017 09: 46
    +2
    It is not clear where such accurate information came from.
    If something gets cut, then, surely, they won’t tell us that they cut it, where and how much. For it is a military secret.
    1. Kenneth
      Kenneth April 11 2017 09: 51
      +1
      We have the right to know what our money is going for.
      1. ADmA_RUS
        ADmA_RUS April 11 2017 13: 31
        0
        Share a link to regulatory documents.
        1. Kenneth
          Kenneth April 11 2017 15: 13
          0
          I won’t share it because our right is not realized by closing the defense budget. In Europe, by the way, this is not so.
          1. ADmA_RUS
            ADmA_RUS April 12 2017 12: 57
            0
            So is there a violation or not?
  11. Old26
    Old26 April 11 2017 09: 52
    10
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    In truth, I would move it to 2050. Or at 3025. Well, why? We have a gigantic country, it’s just right to build the McDonalds for the Tomahawks so that they can rest while they fly to the missile mines. As for me - mine ICBMs + ICBMs on the SSBN + KR with nuclear warheads on long-range aviation for the eyes.

    I don’t understand why it is needed. Most likely, those who lobbied for this topic in the Moscow Region defeated those who were opposed. The point is to invest gigantic money, so as a result to have 5 trains with 30 missiles.
    To some extent, I agree with you that the existing structure of strategic nuclear forces is enough for the eyes: the Strategic Missile Forces with silos and PGRK, the fleet with the SSBNs, aviation with the KR, equipped with nuclear warheads

    Quote: Kenneth
    Maybe it’s worth the extra tax to introduce 10% income interest on defense. I figured that about 2,5 trillion per year can be obtained

    And how many of these 2,5 trillion other armies will reach? And excuse me, where will you get these 10%?
    Let's not look through the pink glasses, coming up with targeted contributions to the defense. The average salary in the outback is about 20-25 thousand rubles. Public sector employees (culture, education, social programs, medicine) have even less. But let's stop at 20 thousand.
    A family of three. The husband receives 20-25 thousand, the wife most often will receive 12-15 maximum. The child is a student in the school. Total family income, let 40 thousand rubles. 10% of 40 thousand - 4 thousand rubles. Housing and communal services eats another 10 thousand (if the apartment is 2-3 bedroom). It turns out 40 minus 4 thousand (10%) minus 10 thousand - it remains about the same 25 thousand rubles. Divided by three - we get 8 thousand per nose. Next - food, then clothing, then the cost of transport, communications, communications. How much is the school now - most do not know by hearsay. I am afraid that these 24 thousand for three will be enough end-to-end. But this is at such a salary. Now imagine that the husband receives 15 thousand, the wife of 6. And the same child. The situation is different. Minus 2,1 thousand for defense, and the same 8-10 thousand for housing and communal services. There is still 9 thousand for three for food and all that.
    And I generally do not exaggerate. Unemployment in the province is sometimes much more than officially declared. Get a second job - extremely difficult for many.
    So a 10% defense tax is empty. Not only will they steal it, so it is worth considering the standard of living of the majority of the population in the country
    1. Kenneth
      Kenneth April 11 2017 10: 46
      +3
      Maybe then you should not go into expensive adventures once we are so poor.
  12. For your motherland, your mother))
    For your motherland, your mother)) April 11 2017 10: 21
    0
    It’s good that the air defense was not cut! There is no greater grief than looking at the axes and bombs flying with impunity from heaven to your country.
  13. Altona
    Altona April 11 2017 10: 23
    0
    Quote: ADmA_RUS
    In crises, the number of rich always grows. For if the people get poor then the money goes into the pockets of the most successful.

    ----------------------------
    Immediately visible "successful." And what is the crisis with us? Our people have become so rich that they don’t want to buy anything? Do not share your "successful" experience?
  14. Altona
    Altona April 11 2017 10: 26
    0
    Quote: Old26
    And I generally do not exaggerate. Unemployment in the province is sometimes much more than officially declared. Get a second job - extremely difficult for many.
    So a 10% defense tax is empty. Not only will they steal it, so it is worth considering the standard of living of the majority of the population in the country

    -----------------------------
    I absolutely agree. There are few opportunities to earn. Cities were built around factories with 500 to 3000 workers. And now these plants either do not exist, or they are ten times narrowed.
  15. Altona
    Altona April 11 2017 10: 28
    +1
    Quote: Kenneth
    Maybe it’s worth the extra tax to introduce 10% income interest on defense. I figured that about 2,5 trillion per year can be obtained

    ----------------------------
    Maybe easier as in Switzerland? Give each AKM reservist. Who will pay this tax? We have “overhaul” collected, and actually spend 10 percent of it. Where does this money hang out?
    1. Kenneth
      Kenneth April 11 2017 11: 32
      +4
      In Switzerland, there is also infrastructure for this and the people are responsible. And we even lock up weapons from soldiers. Here you can imagine a soldier in dismissal with weapons as in Israel. Or a drunk with a machine gun in the attic.
      1. dahpaz
        dahpaz April 11 2017 20: 05
        +3
        Israel is a tiny state 500 km from north to south and it’s a shame to write so wide ... so the plus to this is constantly in the state of the database just the activity and the nature of these databases is changing. either the hot phase in the south or the freezing there and activation in the north, but it happened everywhere and right away ... in principle, the country is paramilitary beyond all imaginable limits. around people with weapons. but! in Russia there is hardly such a need. not because people here are more responsible but not in Russia. this is complete nonsense! we also have enough stories when, on drunken boy, the conscript fired his guns in the wrong and wrong places ... just carrying all and all trunks of different brands and calibers with you in Russia is not necessary. God forbid that it was not necessary in the future.
        1. Kenneth
          Kenneth April 11 2017 21: 49
          0
          No, it is a matter of trust. Even in Israel there is no need to walk with trunks. Society simply trusts its protector as a warrior. Despite all sorts of cases.
  16. Old26
    Old26 April 11 2017 10: 41
    +3
    Quote: Altona
    I absolutely agree. There are few opportunities to earn. Cities were built around factories with 500 to 3000 workers. And now these plants either do not exist, or they are ten times narrowed.

    Even if not only around the plants - the situation is the same. Our city does not belong to the category of single-industry towns, but nonetheless. Before the collapse of the Union, there were at least 10 engineering and electrical plants. Some are larger, others are smaller, but within at least 1000-2000 people, or even more. Now, out of this dozen, a couple are working well, and even then in a stripped-down state. And the population over a quarter century has grown by 200 thousand. In other, small cities it’s even worse, we are at least a regional center. So it turns out that sometimes for many even one permanent high paying job is not immediately found. Plus one more factor. Ukraine. The influx of refugees, albeit relatively small, but “brought down” salaries. If earlier a person could get about 40-50 thousand for his work (certain and highly qualified), now salary has dropped to 20-25. And as usual in such cases, employers say: I do not like it - no one is holding you, there are people to work in your place.
    So a 10% tax could only be real in a completely different situation. When salaries would be much higher, when housing and communal services expenses would be adequate. Then talking about a 10% tax would still make sense
  17. Odysseus
    Odysseus April 11 2017 11: 16
    +2
    The main thing is to decide what goals our state sets for itself. Everything else, including military strategy, depends on it.
    Then you need to understand, but what can we actually actually produce now? What is the condition of the plants, their technological level, the availability of personnel, etc.
    Then, you need to understand how much money we have and how much we are willing to spend it on the basis of the goals and objectives facing us.
    Well, only then write the GPV and begin to execute it. Otherwise, all our programs will remain only on paper and will be used only for PR-a, and we will accept them, and then after a few years forget about them and accept the following. so ad infinitum.
    PS As for the combat arms, the main question is with the ground forces. With all the rest, it’s more or less clear that the Strategic Missile Forces are a sacred cow, they will not be touched, the fleet will be reduced for the first time, aviation, including the army, but not so much like a fleet.
    But the question with the ground forces (especially considering that they are really fighting) is the most acute and so far the most obscure.
  18. komrad buh
    komrad buh April 11 2017 11: 19
    +2
    Yes, we’ll go on shit for a long time, but we still need to develop the army
  19. Altona
    Altona April 11 2017 11: 37
    +3
    Quote: Odyssey
    The main thing is to decide what goals our state sets for itself. Everything else, including military strategy, depends on it.
    Then you need to understand, but what can we actually actually produce now? What is the condition of the plants, their technological level, the availability of personnel, etc.
    Then, you need to understand how much money we have and how much we are willing to spend it on the basis of the goals and objectives facing us.

    -------------------------------
    You pose questions for a patriotic state. A state in which an official is simply a temporary worker who is ready to quickly grab and dump in the “right country” does not raise such questions. Therefore, our officials can be safely shot.
    1. aikon1974
      aikon1974 April 11 2017 14: 25
      0
      I think the whole problem is this, "The state apparatus in the USSR in 1982 totaled 2,5 million people. Today, according to the Federal State Statistics Service, the number of officials at all levels reaches 6 million." Considering that before the collapse of the USSR, the population was about 300 million, and now 000 million with a tail. Becomes uneasy.
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus April 11 2017 15: 47
        +1
        Quote: aikon1974
        I think the whole problem is this, "The state apparatus in the USSR in 1982 totaled 2,5 million people. Today, according to the Federal State Statistics Service, the number of officials at all levels reaches 6 million." Considering that before the collapse of the USSR, the population was about 300 million, and now 000 million with a tail. Becomes uneasy.

        The difference is even greater, and much more. Since in the USSR, the lion's share of officials controlled the economy (public property), and now the state has consciously refused this.
        So the number of officials in our country is now more than an order of magnitude (that is, more than 10 times) that exceeds that in the USSR.
        Capitalism, in practice, has proven to be disproportionately more bureaucratic than socialism.
        1. aikon1974
          aikon1974 April 11 2017 15: 58
          0
          Totally agree with you.
      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 11 2017 17: 34
        +1
        Quote: aikon1974
        "The state apparatus in the USSR in 1982 totaled 2,5 million people. Today, according to Rosstat, the number of officials at all levels reaches 6 million."

        Rave. The number of Russian officials includes ALL employees, including health workers, teachers, security officials, military and working in state corporations.
        The number of specifically civil servants or officials in Russia in 2013 amounted to 1 million 455 thousand people
        Read more at RBC:
        http://www.rbc.ru/economics/15/10/2014/543cfe56cb
        b20f8c4e0b98f2
        1. Odysseus
          Odysseus April 11 2017 18: 11
          0
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          The number of specifically civil servants or officials in Russia in 2013 amounted to 1 million 455 thousand people

          The numbers are correct, aikon1974 went too far, but this does not change the general conclusion. If we compare with the USSR (where, as I already wrote, the lion's part of the officials were in charge of the leadership of the now defunct national economy), we have cosmically many officials.
          But we can agree that this is not specifically our problem, capitalism, a priori, requires a complex apparatus of control. And in the core countries of the capital system of officials there are no less.
  20. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 April 11 2017 12: 49
    +3
    Again, “possible analytics”, well, that’s so ..... remember the beginning of the 2000s, the 08.08.08 campaign ....... we dreamed of a simple reform in the army and navy, at least to pull the army to the proper level, discuss new equipment didn’t even occur to you, because it simply didn’t exist, they could not even think about the global political and military confrontation against the United States and NATO ......... now 2017 is in the yard, is it a lot or a little? From the point of view of the history of the country, a minuser ..... But how much has already been done !!! How Russia has changed the geopolitical system of the world !!! ..... I agree the economic situation in the country, to put it mildly, is not very, but .......... this is not a reason to give up and even if not the whole plan is feasible, but anyway -This is very good compared to the 90s, 2000s.
  21. barabaner
    barabaner April 11 2017 13: 10
    +1
    What good news! That is, the mantra "Sanctions do not affect the Russian Federation" does not work.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk April 11 2017 13: 12
      +1
      Quote: barabaner
      That is, the mantra "Sanctions do not affect the Russian Federation" does not work.

      And where does the sanction?
    2. vovanpain
      vovanpain April 11 2017 14: 19
      +7
      Quote: barabaner
      What good news! That is, the mantra "Sanctions do not affect the Russian Federation" does not work.

      Oh yeah, stop the stupid person, repeating your mantra, as in Russia everything is bad and totally common. And it’s not about sanctions at all. yes
    3. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 April 11 2017 14: 47
      +1
      Quote: barabaner
      What good news! That is, the mantra "Sanctions do not affect the Russian Federation" does not work.

      You are clearly anti-Semite.
    4. Kenneth
      Kenneth April 11 2017 15: 16
      +1
      Sanctions for the most part bullshit. But oil prices are a disaster.
  22. MoJloT
    MoJloT April 11 2017 14: 38
    0
    It is clear that again we will arrange blockages from the forest near Moscow.
  23. Altona
    Altona April 11 2017 14: 57
    0
    Quote: barabaner
    What good news! That is, the mantra "Sanctions do not affect the Russian Federation" does not work.

    -------------------------------
    And what, Israeli vegetables from sanctions have become tastier and sweeter? Even before the sanctions, they were dummies.
  24. Kudrevkn
    Kudrevkn April 11 2017 15: 26
    +1
    Another “pearl” from DAM that “the Government has created and will continue to create more than 6,5 million new jobs ....” True, the members of the Government present at the meeting have this “good news” NOT joy, enthusiasm or enthusiasm caused? And does the Market “not regulate” the situation in the economy? Do you know, it’s even good that we are so tough with our faces on the asphalt — there is a sobering up “from victories” and “hurry - patriotism or liberal idealism-idiocy”? Of course, it’s a pity that all this could soon end in a “blood bath” of the Civil War? But one thing pleases - where will all these Leberasts rush? To Europe, to America or ... to the cage?
  25. nesvobodnye
    nesvobodnye April 11 2017 17: 20
    0
    Thanks for the reasonable analysis, without cheers and without alarmism.
  26. Bronevick
    Bronevick April 11 2017 19: 02
    0
    Some disorders.
  27. kouldoom
    kouldoom April 11 2017 19: 18
    0
    20-30 tanks per year
    Are you kidding me
    1. yehat
      yehat April 13 2017 11: 13
      0
      Yes, good )))
  28. yehat
    yehat April 13 2017 11: 06
    0
    I am pleased with the decisions on the fleet with the exception of the program on frigates and the lack of reinforcement of cost items for specials. financing the restoration of the production of components like naval melee air defense instead of shell, improved radars, engines, etc.
    They did not accept odious projects - this is good.
  29. Kudrevkn
    Kudrevkn April 14 2017 11: 07
    0
    Of course, we should not be likened to dill dill and “withdraw 1,5% of the“ holy war ”with Raska! But in the USSR there were several examples of the "creative" application of the "patriotic manifestation of the high civic consciousness of the Soviet people" to find money to restore the defense of the army and navy - bond loans and lottery tickets DOSAAF (50 kopecks, not 30 as in the "monetary - clothing" ( civilian)). With regard to disputes about the further development of the Navy (the most expensive part of GWP), it should be an independent NAVIGATION DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM !? Which, by the way, should consist of subprograms - such as 1. "Development of the shipbuilding base;" 2. Surface forces; 3. Submarine forces "; 3. Coastal equipment and weapons; 3. Naval aviation; 4. Base locations and MTS. Etc. And under all these subprograms should be both a General estimate and local to each object in particular. With the modern development of electronic computers, this can be done quite quickly without delaying the “calculation process”? Under each item in the subprograms should be indicated “executor” and responsible from the “customer” (personalities), who would be “personally” right up to the criminal responsible for execution "order"? This is the "comprehensive" work on the implementation of the State Defense Order !?
  30. Self
    Self 17 October 2017 14: 55
    0
    I’m certainly a “sofa” expert. But as I see it, if there is a war (without nuclear weapons), then for Russia it will be generally land. The attack fleet, in the form of the same aircraft carriers, will not be useful to her. And you have to act on one sixth of SUSHI (!!). Therefore, it looks more logical to build up tanks, air defense, aircraft than the construction of aircraft carriers. It’s easier to drown the enemy landing with “Caliber” when approaching, than to sail behind it to the other end of the world))) IMHO, of course that's all.
  31. graf1980
    graf1980 6 March 2018 08: 08
    0
    if it weren’t for the rise in price of products due to corrupt managerial schemes, military products and, indeed, civilian products would be much cheaper, because here we can talk about a rise in price up to 2 ... 3 times