Izhmash officially introduced the new AK-12 assault rifle

151
It so happened that the general public, including foreign, first learned about the Kalashnikov only a few years after its creation and adoption. However, this did not prevent the AK from becoming, perhaps, the most widespread and popular weapons of the world. But the next “descendant” of the legendary machine gun managed to become famous not only before the start of mass production, but even before the appearance of the prototype. Will the new AK-12 be able to compare with its “grandfather” in combat and quantitative terms? It’s too early to talk about this. But about the wide popularity of the project and the disputes surrounding it, conclusions can already be drawn - most likely, the public’s reaction was caused by the fact that Izhmash tried to publish data on the work to the best of its ability. In addition, public interest was spurred by last year’s scandalous the news on the cessation of military purchases of the AK-74M.

Izhmash officially introduced the new AK-12 assault rifle


And now, just the other day, another news appeared “from the life of AK-12”. It became known that the new machine has been in the factory for several weeks - test firing in difficult climatic conditions is now in full swing. The reliability of the design of the weapon is checked when working in heavy rain, in conditions of heavy dusting, low and high temperatures, etc. This means that if any serious flaws do not appear that require serious improvements, by the end of this year AK-12 will go for state certification. After that, the pilot batch will be sent to the special units of the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, after which these departments will draw their conclusions on the subject of mass purchases of new weapons and the replacement of old ones. But such terms can be observed only in the absence of problems with the design, and there is no absolute certainty in this yet. The fact is that AK-12, unlike previous Kalashnikov models, has more than a dozen major changes and innovations in its design. Earlier, when creating a new machine, they cost less of them, and even then, most of the improvements accounted for the technological moments of production. As a result, AK-12 is more susceptible to various "childhood diseases" that are common to all new types of equipment and weapons.



Nevertheless, the representatives of "Izhmash" do not speak about the problems and modifications that emerged from the tests, if such were made. They, as is customary in arms circles, are treated with general phrases like: “tests are underway, their completion is planned then and then and then, and the machine itself has such and such advantages over direct competitors”. As a competitor (one might say, this is already a long tradition), the American M16 automatic rifle of later modifications is called. Comparisons with other foreign automata such as FN SCAR (HAMR), Heckler Koch G36, SIG SG550 or Beretta ARX-160 are not done for some reason. The reasons for such silence can only guess. The most plausible and plausible explanation is the prevalence of M16 family rifles - in their number they exceed all the types listed above. Probably, there is logic in comparing AK-12, planned for a truly large-scale production, and M16, more than eight million copies of which have already been distributed to military units and warehouses of many countries.



While the AK-12 has not yet completed the tests, consider its differences from the previous Kalashnikovs. Much of the design changes are visible without disassembling the machine. So, the receiver cover is now longer and stiffer. In addition, its front part is mounted on a hinge, thereby improving the overall rigidity of the structure. Also on the lid is mounted Picatinny rail, on which you can install additional sighting equipment. The new design of the receiver cover provides greater stability of the sight mounted on the bar compared to the old one. Another innovation relates to the shutter handle. On the AK-12 it is attached to the gas piston rod, which made it possible to remove the gap between the lid and the receiver - as conceived by the designers, the absence of a gap significantly makes it difficult for dirt to get inside the machine. Also, the shutter handle can be installed on both sides of the machine, optionally the shooter. The absence of a gap on the old "Kalashnikovs" hiding behind a translator of fire, allowed to change the design of the latter. Now his flag is displayed on both sides of the receiver and is located above the pistol grip, which allows you to move it with your thumb. The fire interpreter is still at the same time fulfilling the functions of a fuse, but now it has four positions instead of three: a fuse, single shooting, shooting with a cut-off of three shots and fire in bursts. The progress of the translator is relatively short, which may cause certain difficulties for the shooter, who is used to the “classic” AK flag, until he gets used to the new design. The AK-12 has become the first submachine gun of the family, which has a slide lag, so now the reloading of the weapon will take much less time. Also, it should be noted, the new translator-fuse and slide delay will allow, if necessary, to replace the store and other operations to continue firing with one hand. Even before the demonstration of the prototype AK-12, designers in their interviews repeatedly called it “one-armed” and focused on improving the ergonomics of the new machine gun.



Otherwise, there are no changes, or they are insignificant and have a technological and “cosmetic” character. The gas engine with a long stroke and locking the barrel by turning the bolt remained the same as before. Minor improvements underwent trunk. Firstly, the pitch and shape of its rifling were changed, and secondly, the length of the muzzle brake-compensator was increased and adjusted. Modernization of the compensator allows using rifle grenades of NATO standards with AK-12. Significantly modified the "body kit" machine. The butt is still folded sideways to the left, but its structure has been changed - instead of a monolithic or frame structure, it is made adjustable in length and has a telescopic structure. In its appearance, the new butt resembles the butt of the FN SCAR rifle, which has already been repeatedly tested by practice. Handguard AK-12 can be manufactured in two versions. One involves placing a Picatinny rail on the underside of the forearm, the other — standard domestic mounts for the GP-25, GP-30 or GP-34 grenade launchers. For ammunition of the new machine can be used all available weapons stores lines AK and PKK, calculated under the corresponding cartridge. Also, new four-row stores have been created and are being tested, which, with the same length and width as the existing ones, contain twice as much ammunition - 60 cartridges. However, the fate of such stores still does not look very clear, because the military may have its own considerations regarding the weights of weapons with an attached store.

Recently it became known that the Ministry of Defense this year has no plans to purchase any Izhmash products. From this we can conclude that the mass production of AK-12 will not start in 2012 year. On the other hand, even by December of this year, we should expect, as a maximum, the start of production of a pilot batch for trial operation in special units. But their plans for 2013 have not been published yet by the Ministry of Defense. Perhaps the first serial AK-12 will go to the army in the next year. And the export prospects of the new Izhevsk machine look quite good. Weapons of the AK family have been popular with the military all over the world for several decades now, and the new machine has several innovations designed to bring its appearance closer to modern requirements for assault rifle class weapons.
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  1. +12
    15 February 2012 07: 56
    There is nothing revolutionary, but in vain it has become more convenient. Let's see what the run-in shows. Curious for what calibers will be produced? It is also interesting how it was possible to achieve an increase in the capacity of the store with the previous dimensions.
    1. Desert Fox
      +11
      15 February 2012 09: 30
      The manufacturer promises the AK-12 in two versions - “light” for traditional intermediate cartridges like 5.45x39, 5.56x45, 6.5 Grendel or 7,62x39, and “heavy” for 7,62x51 NATO cartridges.
      The AK-12 Kalashnikov assault rifle uses "classic" automation with a long stroke of the gas piston and a rotary shutter. To improve ergonomic and operational characteristics, the receiver has been significantly redesigned, especially its upper part (cover). The AK-12 submachine gun received an elongated receiver cover, which has increased rigidity and is pivotally mounted on the receiver in front, so that to disassemble the weapon, the cover leans up and forward. In combination with a separate cover latch controlled by a lever located to the right at the rear of the receiver, this made it possible to ensure a constant position of the cover relative to the barrel for the use of optical and other sights mounted on the integrated Picatinny rail on the cover. The cocking handle of the shutter is perensen forward and is attached to the gas piston rod, while it can, if desired, be placed on the left or right side of the weapon. This made it possible to exclude the gap between the lid and the receiver, which is typical for weapons of the AK family, in the stowed position, closed by the lever of the fuse-translator and open to “all winds” in the combat position. The fuse-translator of the fire modes has been redesigned - now its lever is pulled out on both sides of the weapon, under the thumb of the firing hand, and has 4 positions - “Fuse”, “firing single shots,” “firing bursts at 3” and “Automatic shooting”. A shutter delay also appeared in the design of the machine, which allows to accelerate reloading. Other innovations of the AK-12 assault rifle include modified rifling and a bullet barrel entrance designed to increase the accuracy of fire, a new muzzle brake compensator, which allows launching foreign-made rifle grenades from the barrel. Butt folding sideways, telescopic, adjustable in length. In addition to guides of the Picatinny type, located on the top of the receiver and on the upper forearm pad, the Kalashnikov AK-12 also has short guides on the sides of the forearm. The lower part of the forend is offered in two versions - with Picatinny rail for mounting lights, handles, etc. or without guides, for mounting standard GP-25, GP-30 or GP-34 grenade launchers. The machine can be used both with regular stores of the appropriate caliber with 30 rounds of ammunition (from AK-74 or AKM, depending on the caliber), and with magazines from RPK / RPK-74, as well as with promising 4-row box magazines with 60 rounds of ammunition.
      1. dmitri076
        +7
        15 February 2012 15: 04
        "The manufacturer promises" is a catchphrase .. but let's not guess? .. when the sample is finally ready, then we will seriously comment .. but in general, in my humble opinion, the AK-74M - with a decent production quality and mass equipment with optics and collimators - quite a working tool for the next 20 years!
      2. marauder
        0
        15 February 2012 17: 49
        Quote: Desert Fox
        and "heavy", chambered for 7,62x51 NATO.

        under this cartridge machines do not. Too much energy.
        Actually invented an intermediate cartridge for firing bursts with hands.

        In all likelihood make weapons compatible with NATO,
        on ammunition and on any body kit.
        Purely commercial project, steam nigretos
      3. ghost13
        0
        18 February 2012 09: 18
        It’s good that they are going to release also under cartridge 7.62, since 5.45 caliber bullets deviate strongly to the side when shooting through foliage and shrubs i.e. in a forest area, such as Chechnya.
        On NATO standards all the time equal, and who said that they are better.

        Domestic small arms assault rifles

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9Rysp7tfb8

        c 23: 50.
    2. GRU Special Forces
      +10
      15 February 2012 09: 48
      Quote: Forward
      There is nothing revolutionary

      but there is precisely this reduction in recoil, which at times increases accuracy and accuracy of shooting + the latest sights, I already want such a machine laughing
      1. Phoenixl
        +5
        15 February 2012 09: 54
        return reduction


        How did you decide that the return was reduced? There is no balanced automation in it.

        changed the pitch and shape of its rifling, and secondly, the length was increased and the design of the muzzle brake-compensator was adjusted.


        what calibers

        For all. But in my opinion the most interesting will be 6,5mm
    3. boos24
      +4
      15 February 2012 11: 36
      AK is the best in the WORLD and a lot of changes are not required to bring it back to the pinnacle of fame and this fame was gained in battle and not on advertising stands I'm sure the new AK will raise the bar higher
    4. +10
      15 February 2012 13: 37
      Until you hold it in your hands and work out of it, my friends can hardly say anything, and since no one worked in droves from it, it’s possible to evaluate it so far only virtually
      1. 0
        17 February 2012 01: 21
        Exactly. Visually. I support. recourse You look at the first photo of the receiver cover, or rather the cartridge case extraction window, either the light shone so strangely, or ... the feeling of a file and a sledgehammer ... Everything is somehow clumsy. The weapon should be like a Japanese katana - a triumph of lines. If the "new from Izhmash" is in the style of the Tula Tozik (106) "death to the chairman", then it will be necessary to urgently exile Taburetkin to IzhMash. What would make a rustle there. am
    5. Shveik
      +1
      16 February 2012 00: 41
      Offhand: The capacity of the store was increased due to the "thickening" of the store. That is, the height remained the same, but became wider by one and a half times.
    6. +6
      16 February 2012 16: 30
      at the expense of the pole (mi sorry).
      This is how it was necessary to kick Izhmash, so that they would make a body kit and bring some of the nuances to mind !!!! In many countries, engineers play with Kalash, experimenting. So Izhmash ... gave birth ... And if they are also at least IPSC, they lead the standard for their engineers, they will still discover a lot for themselves ...

      They did it at the end of the picatini ...
      Taki at the end of an empty store you can drop your thumb with ...
      The barrel lid does not hang, you can mount sighting on the picatini ... a new century in the yard!
      Butt and front handle - same opera!
      All of this has long been done as customization for Kalash.
      And once and for all, it is possible to adapt the left hand for sending a cartridge into the chamber, without tying it with a knot!
      shutter lag appeared!

      and IT will be tested for a year? it’s just bringing to mind peeped on other samples! But how did our military-industrial complex become stark ..... ((((((
    7. +4
      16 February 2012 19: 15
      About a year ago, I watched a TV show about how all sorts of crooks copy Kalash - Poles, Yugoslavs, Bulgarians and others, including some American arms company, which did not spread much about it. Loyal Afghans, in particular, were armed with such machine guns. So on these amerovski Kalashs, the receiver cover was hinged at the sector sight, almost like the AK 12. And the picatinny bars on it were also present with multi-colored marks so that you know where to install this or that sight. All this was commented on as worthless gadgets that will brighten up the poor-quality assembly (and, consequently, the "work") of the amerovsky Kalash. Well, what the Izhevsk residents have created - only time and numerous tests in real events will show (mind me!). am
      1. +1
        16 February 2012 19: 42
        partly we are talking about the same thing. Kalash is too simple in terms of production technology. this is one of the requirements of the Soviet People's Commissariat of Defense. don't make a song about "special metals", this is not a fighter engine. it is a cheap soldier in terms of price / quality and trainability, a machine gun. that is his genius.
        but at the expense of the uselessness of the body kit, I disagree! because the same vertical handle on the forend helps a lot. sometimes it seems such simple and obvious things ... but how many decades have passed to "discover" them.
        1. 0
          22 February 2012 18: 31
          I am not against any kind of body kits and tuning - it would all be functionally and quickly changeable at the behest of the owner of this gadget and in relation to a specific task. Everything is simply learned in practice and in comparison with similar opponents - AEK 971, AN 94, etc., including foreign products. In order to generalize the experience and make appropriate adjustments in the design.
  2. Dimitrxnumx
    +9
    15 February 2012 08: 04
    I hope it will be a victory machine that meets all the realities of modern combat and is as trouble-free as before. Pleased with the possibility of a large ammunition
    1. Phoenixl
      +2
      15 February 2012 09: 58
      Pleased with the possibility of a large ammunition


      I would rather have 2 times more old-style stores an enlarged magazine increases the weight of the machine, but does not affect the weight of the equipment. But for a machine gunner it will be preferable because the new store will be smaller in height than the old one.
      1. +14
        15 February 2012 10: 14
        With the same dimensions, everyone will agree to have 2 times more cartridges. As for the weight, why did the military then do the military in Afghanistan and Chechnya?
        1. Phoenixl
          +2
          15 February 2012 12: 00
          Probably from the fact that you can find a rare photo where a soldier in a convenient unloading from which you can easily get a store and quickly.
          1. denis29_82
            +2
            15 February 2012 13: 25
            PhoenixlWell, you don’t write nonsense. You yourself will estimate the number of operations necessary to change the store from unloading and with an attached electrical tape.
            1. +5
              15 February 2012 13: 49
              Correctly noticed by Denis. The guys who were in Chechnya said that they tried to get stores from the PKK for 45 rounds for their AKs in order to recharge less often.
          2. +12
            15 February 2012 17: 33

            From bad life do industrial designs do?
            1. Phoenixl
              +2
              15 February 2012 18: 53
              The first photo is not a spark of shops, but a two-row cartridge pouch.

              In the second photo, Spark has a lid installed so as not to hammer. Mud clogging is the first flaw of sparks. By the way, in order to remove this cap, you also need to spend time and after the ammunition is used up it will be quite difficult for the store to determine somewhere quickly.
              Industry operates within the framework of profit-making and is ready to give birth to anything just to be bought.

              The case of the master is afraid:
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-0ChJBq0LI
              1. -2
                16 February 2012 10: 17
                The first photo is not a spark of shops, but a two-row cartridge pouch.

                Magazine pouch
                1. Phoenixl
                  0
                  16 February 2012 20: 39
                  You're kind of stubborn. This is a two-row pouch, you can’t make out better don’t write better.
              2. 0
                16 February 2012 16: 50
                modern pachi, produced for twin, imply both magazines with the cartridge up. and some, and "thumb-knocked-off closures" do (I really don't know if there is for Kalash) dirt - dirt, but the electrical tape with matches was not canceled ... it's not casual!
                The fact is that the guys in the hot spots tried to get stores from the RPK. the number of rounds without changing the store is saved seconds, and this is often life.
                The fact that it was convenient to change the store once again confirms the existence of a problem - actions when reloading. Or in our army they began to teach the guys to "single"? they approach the shooting position with a discharged machine gun. (TB requirements) no, sometimes they fire on the run, but somehow I don't believe that they are taught to quickly dump an empty store.
                and a dilemma: a thick / thin store is best seen in the classic 1911Colt (45 APS) vs Colt PARA standoff. (even though it’s a gun) it’s obvious that there is a thread for every bolt.
                Although it is better to ask specialists what is better to carry.
              3. 0
                15 March 2012 18: 20
                It would not be frail to invent an improved store: 1) so that the store chain would be without a 3rd connecting element; 2) what kind of thread the spring-loaded cover on the store, so that when installed in the machine, it opens itself, when removed - it closes to prevent ingress of dirt (dust); 3) make the magazine transparent or part of it to control the number of cartridges (in my opinion, someone is already making such a chip. For convenience, you can, of course, equip the magazine with tracers, for example, the 2nd cartridge and the 5th, which is more convenient for anyone) but tracers do not always happen, especially when there is a real clash and you have to equip stores quickly) am
            2. Nikel
              +1
              16 February 2012 00: 47
              Airsoft shop AK, and even a bunker), the second in a pair for the entourage
              1. 0
                16 February 2012 11: 19
                I confirm, the "lower" store is nothing more than an airsoft option.
              2. 0
                16 February 2012 18: 00
                in the above photo - I do not argue.
                I like it here more that the adversaries do http://cruz-a.livejournal.com/165080.html?thread=14773976#t14773976
                or here http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG595/101
  3. +9
    15 February 2012 08: 24
    You can praise or scold a machine gun, but only the military themselves will give a real assessment. Behind them is the last word.
    1. 0
      18 February 2012 09: 06
      SVIST - I hope the word will remain not with the generals, but with the soldiers! For when the word "Rollback" appeared in the military business, rubbish began to appear!
  4. -2
    15 February 2012 08: 25
    The stock still folds sideways to the left, but its design is changed - instead of a monolithic or frame structure, it is made adjustable in length and has a telescopic structure. In appearance, the new butt resembles the butt of the FN SCAR rifle, which has already passed several practical tests.

    Well, I don’t know, it looks better on a ball, and adjustments will be more convenient ...
    For the ammunition of the new machine, all available AK and RPK weapon stores designed for the corresponding cartridge can be used.

    Those. there will be two calibers in one or repeated AEK ...
    Handguard AK-12 can be made in two versions. One provides for the placement of the Picatinny rail on the underside of the forend, the other - standard domestic mounts for the GP-25, GP-30 or GP-34 grenade launchers.

    But this is bad ... it's time to switch to universality ...
    The Izhmash arms concern has finished assembling the first prototype of a new version of the Kalashnikov assault rifle, known under the working name AK-12, and has begun its factory tests. State tests of the new weapon, which, according to the Izhmashites, is fully adapted to modern combat conditions, will begin at the end of 2012. The Russian Ministry of Defense has not shown interest in the machine yet, but Izhmash is sure that if the AK-12 does not find a consumer at home, it will certainly become popular abroad.
    The main reason for the abandonment of the AK-12 is that it, according to the military, is fundamentally no different from Kalashnikovs. What should be the fundamental difference is not clear.
    The point is that Izhmash is currently in the process of reorganization. The enterprises of the Izhmash concern are going through bankruptcy proceedings (!!!), and in exchange for the outgoing enterprise, the state corporation Rostekhnologii is creating the Izhmash research and production association, on the basis of which it intends to consolidate all the assets controlled by the concern.
    ... The Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB are also planning to adopt the AK "two hundredth series", on the basis of which, as previously reported, the AK-12 was developed. In addition to the Russian security officials, the "hundredth series" Kalashnikovs are very popular abroad. In particular, such weapons have been adopted by Venezuela.
    However, even if the Defense Ministry does not succeed in pushing the AK-12 through, Izhmash will not remain idle. The concern announced that its weapons are becoming more and more popular abroad and that the AK-12, if abandoned by their own, will be exported.
    1. Phoenixl
      0
      15 February 2012 10: 01
      two calibers in one

      This means that the design of the store has remained the same i.e. if the defense min will buy a 5,45 assault rifle, then old shops will approach them.
    2. +2
      15 February 2012 21: 24
      More like a butt on M4 from Magpul, I would even say an exact copy.

      is he on acr
      1. 0
        15 February 2012 23: 37
        They are all one graphite grease lubricated. wink
        Interesting that Magpul not do?
  5. 0
    15 February 2012 09: 15
    Preface: many myths are related to the fact that conscripts are not very machine-friendly, hence the oblique, not convenient, loud and uncomfortable fuse ...
    The main thing that highlighted: finally lengthened the trunk! The accuracy will definitely increase (they say that the sniper version of 74 was elongated by 70mm and was equal in accuracy to SVD). Shutter lag.
    Other: the shutter has not changed, I can assume that the return is the same. Trivia: built-in slats (although they could be added starting from 74 winked ) and a convenient butt.
    I don’t understand one thing, why did they misfire on the 3 cartridge, you can learn how to shoot with treshki quite quickly.
    My verdict: basically, they did what was lacking for a long time: comfort. Other goodies are also a plus good
    1. +1
      15 February 2012 14: 59
      I started shooting two-piece from the first time!

      On AK, there is no problem! The rate of fire allows unlike the M-16!
      1. 0
        15 February 2012 15: 38
        At M16, I don’t know about 2, but you can cut off shots by 3 in a few lessons.
        1. 0
          16 February 2012 00: 26
          I read somewhere, there was an order for a Kalashnikov assault rifle from some African country. In the order, they asked to replace the automatic fire with a fire with a cutoff of three shots. The customer explained this by the inability of his soldiers to remove his finger from the trigger on time, they released the entire clip at a time. Generally. then flew with the order, because they could not cut off 3 shots.
          1. Perry
            0
            20 February 2012 21: 24
            In my opinion, the Algerians so requested.
  6. Patos89
    -16
    15 February 2012 09: 27
    Ak oblique because of the fact that when you return the spring, it leaves the percussion mechanism and does not thereby decrease the accuracy of the shooting, in principle, as with all machine guns. Therefore, right now, the sniper and switch to rifles with a floating shutter instead of automatic ones.
    1. +4
      15 February 2012 14: 09
      You have amused me as a young man. The accuracy of the AK falls due to the impulse received by the shooter from the blow when the bolt frame is returned to its extreme rear position on the back wall of the receiver. Did you manage to solve this problem on the AK-12 is unknown. On AEK-971, the impulse was compensated.
    2. 0
      15 February 2012 23: 20
      Patos89,
      You yourself understood what you said, literate?
    3. 0
      15 February 2012 23: 34
      Moron. They gave a computer to M. Udak ...
    4. Perry
      0
      20 February 2012 21: 26
      snipers go over (yes, actually why do they go over — they have switched over for a long time) the longitudinally-sliding shutter is much more accurate
    5. 0
      April 26 2012 16: 45
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZO11glbkr4&feature=related советую посмотреть про "косой АК-74 и прямой М-16! Снимал кажется америкос, отстрелял из обоих стволов оп 5 выстрелов!
  7. 750
    750
    +3
    15 February 2012 09: 29
    Again, in reality! What goals the developer set, it is not known whether he achieved them, is not clear. Who is the consumer of this product is unclear (specialists, general wax, mudovd?). Typically, the customer sets the task, the manufacturer solves. And here we are
    a new pity for the chondobili, can anyone need it, eh? Look at how beautiful the slats are, the slide delay wow, everything is possible with one hand. And the store is finally a miracle, there will probably be nano cartridges! Not a word about the main thing: reliability, resistance to dirt, water, accuracy, the number of failures, delays, what cartridge, convenience, sights, price? Then the little heifers in the obnik sfotali, more sense and nice to the eye!
    1. +1
      15 February 2012 15: 04
      AK-12 was originally made for export from here 4 types of ammunition 2 of which NATO!

      An article on this topic has already been!
  8. +2
    15 February 2012 09: 34
    We were pleased with the improved ergonomics and increased ammunition of the store ... However, while maintaining the old shutter mechanism, the accuracy of the AK-12 will probably be at the level of the AK-74 ... And this is a minus compared to the M-16. LOOK !!!
    1. Owl
      +11
      15 February 2012 09: 54
      unreliability (in real combat conditions) of the M-16, here's a giant minus
    2. +11
      15 February 2012 10: 02
      Lengthened the table, reviewed the rifling, a new compensator - not enough? Although, if you shot the whole 1,5 horn for military service, then of course the problem with accuracy.
      Any contractor will tell you that the accuracy of the AK is good, and you need to shoot the bullseye at 600 with the same frequency as automatic shooting with a sniper rifle.
      Tied to myths
      1. +6
        15 February 2012 10: 39
        of course, in battle the real distance is a maximum of 300 meters, but in reality 100 is closer and closer, and the accuracy and rate of fire of the old AK were normal! at least we had enough. An assault rifle is inherently not a sniper rifle, but for firing a high-density barrage. And let snipers (pros from various special forces) even with a smooth shutter and finally without a shutter. The only thing that surprises is the many different small parts, grooves and other things, but when cleaning, the soldiers will flop. laughing As for shooting with three rounds, this can be learned in the first classes of shooting, why this function is not clear. And I agree with everyone who writes that you must first test it in full, and then talk. By the way, the great AK also did not immediately become great!
    3. Dimitrxnumx
      0
      15 February 2012 10: 07
      Among other innovations, the developers called a new trigger mechanism, shutter stop and a new design of the bolt group. Thanks to these improvements, in particular, it was possible to improve the accuracy indicators of automatic firing. http://www.militaryparitet.com/teletype/data/ic_teletype/13675/
    4. 0
      15 February 2012 15: 23
      Accuracy of the AK-74 is worse than that of the M16 only with single shots, while automatic firing is the opposite. For both samples, the shot occurs when the bolt is locked, which means - "Among other innovations of the AK-12 assault rifle - modified rifling and a bullet barrel entrance designed to increase the accuracy of fire, a new muzzle brake-compensator" - is more important for single shooting than the bolt design.
    5. +2
      15 February 2012 15: 25
      And what are the advantages of the M-16 itself? More accurate automatic shooting at a non-moving target at a distance of 400 m ??? Current stupid man and profanello not learned at such a distance will be a single target bursts of bursts! ! !

      Everything else real combat long ago won the championship of AK!

      In addition, firing at extreme distances of the order of 400 m, even for the M-16, is more likely to be a harassing fire than shooting to kill!
  9. grizzlir
    +3
    15 February 2012 09: 38
    Recently it became known that the Ministry of Defense this year has no plans to purchase any Izhmash products. From this we can conclude that the mass production of the AK-12 will not begin in 2012.
    It’s good that in Izhevsk they managed to keep the team of gunsmiths and they are at least trying to do something. But without a state order, a factory originally designed for mass production of weapons can finally wither away. Only large orders and state support can save it.
  10. Owl
    +2
    15 February 2012 09: 52
    Would show, in close-up, the image of the "bolt carrier", I want to decide: "How is the possibility of throwing the reloading handle to the left (right) side realized?"
    1. 0
      15 February 2012 14: 28
      Judging by the photos, on some kind of connector is attached and the nest under it from two sides.
      1. Owl
        0
        16 February 2012 16: 28
        I figured it out: it is fixed by a "return mechanism", on it there is a groove in which the protrusion of the coupling, fixed on the movable rod, enters.
  11. +3
    15 February 2012 09: 52
    for some reason, the ancient M-16 is being tested on the video, but in terms of intelligence it would be necessary to compare it with M4A1!
    1. 750
      750
      -7
      15 February 2012 10: 08
      Judging by the cases, the AK12 is clearly weaker than the M4A1 and G36. I'm not special in weapons, but I know the tactics of promoting a product. If the new AK were better, or at least no worse, it would be boldly demonstrated with the best examples. And so the refinement of the concept in metal costs a serious dough, and Izhmash seems to have created a fiddle on the initiative, bringing it up to the level of a weapon that can be produced by hundreds of thousands without fear of returning claims is nothing. So they make a small series, and everything is so streamlined, without specifics.
      1. +4
        15 February 2012 15: 34
        Izhmash’s deal with advertising and marketing matters is of course not important. But the rest I do not agree. I am 100% sure that the new modification of the AK will be very popular in foreign markets. Since the proven reliability of AK plus a modern form. An example with Saiga-12 isp.030, which appeared made a splash with gun lovers and tactics professionals. The French police acquired, now the American police are purchasing. And the changes, compared with the usual Saiga, were just aimed at ease of use.
      2. fktrctqxbr
        +4
        15 February 2012 16: 56
        I think nothing new has been done. As always in our defense industry, there is one appearance that cannot but enrage.
        - M16 you can already say the last century, and they compare it
        - The basic mechanisms remained the same, and this is accuracy, aiming. leave much to be desired.
        - And finally the weight. Where so much metal. It has long been used modern plastic-polypropylene materials. As a person working with plastic, I can confidently say that plastic today is not inferior to the strength of metal, and by weight only think about it 8 times lighter than metal.
        During the war 08.08.08When the Czechs (Vostok battalion) came across NATO-type assault rifles, they were extremely surprised by the weight, and what it was made of (plastic), as I remember they called it "toy machine", and its characteristics were not inferior to our samples.
        Let our engineers not be offended but come up with brand new machines: easier, stronger, more precisely. The life of our boys will subsequently depend on this
        1. 0
          15 February 2012 21: 27
          fktrctqxbr,
          and at -40 what will happen to this plastic? What is the price of plastic that can withstand severe loads with a small thickness in the cold?
          1. Zynaps
            +4
            15 February 2012 23: 15
            urgently smoke "reinforced plastic based on polyaramide fibers". keywords - "reinforced plastic".

            Heckler and Koch make weapons HK-416 and HK-417 using polyaramide plastic. machine guns were tested in Norway, in Afghanistan. normal flight.

            The Czechs have long used glass dust as a filler for weapons-grade plastic. also with a positive result.

            chemical technologies and materials science, as it were, do not stand still and even in space successfully run in.
            1. NovoSibirets
              +4
              15 February 2012 23: 19
              Quote: Zynaps
              urgently smoke "reinforced plastic based on polyaramide fibers".

              Zynaps, but definitely "smoking"? !! laughing
            2. +1
              16 February 2012 08: 13
              AND? The mass will still be within 3.X kg
            3. +1
              16 February 2012 22: 49
              The Czechs have long used glass dust as a filler for weapons-grade plastic. also with a positive result.

              Most likely, fiberglass, not dust ... Fiberglass has long been known.

              The problem of plastic is precisely in the temperature range. Moreover, not so much low as critical high temperatures are critical. Most plastics begin to decompose and deform when heated (carbon, as far as I know, is practically not used in weapons ... expensive in mass production).

              With a sharp temperature difference, heating when shooting and immediately in the snow, the plastic may well crack. Reinforced is deformed.

              Well, not the last question, the cost of mass production ... Those types of plastics that fly into space and withstand extremes and overloads do not make sense to use in the mass production of machines.

              It will be much more useful to use lighter alloys. And for shops, and for the receiver, etc., it is possible to completely use magnesium-aluminum alloys.
              1. +1
                17 February 2012 01: 34
                You tell these discoveries to Glock engineers. This is one of the eternal pistols on the short barrel market. By the way, shooting from him is personally not convenient for me, just because of the low weight (Glock17). He returns to the sighting line poorly. I like more weighty cars, but this is IMHO.
                In any case, when wood and varnish were used on Kalash, in ancient times, ours in Afghanistan were tormented by scraping ... and the current Kalash models have plastic in their constructs (butt, forend, pistol grip). The same Lobaev’s rifle has a bed made of Kevlar carbon fiber and doesn’t crack or lead ...
                1. 0
                  17 February 2012 02: 08
                  Yes, and from the time of the Ak74m they have been using plastic, not to mention the newer models.
        2. 0
          15 February 2012 22: 14
          Well, light weapons also passed: the first M16 or even AP15 were about 2.8kg, but this led to barrel jumps. Therefore, he weighed half a kg. Not entirely accurate, but the meaning is clear
        3. Perch_xnumx
          +2
          16 February 2012 12: 59
          American armory workshops convert both AK and Saiga into plastic without much strain. Stock, fore-end, grip, additional grip on the fore-end. Yes, even from carbon fiber - the flesh of money (our special forces would be very appropriate). You can be very surprised how much such a lightweight unit weighs. An interesting program on the discovery of "Songs of guns" - the guys respect both AK and the saiga for their price and simplicity. They even attached a taser to the saiga for the sheriff - it looked great.
  12. +4
    15 February 2012 10: 11
    nothing new. Planks and handles got up normally on the ak74, as well as box stores. the telescopic butt, the same parsley, our former allies have remade it all for a long time and hung it on ak74. another modernization. Why loudly declare a new rifle complex. I predict that the MO will not buy this machine.
  13. 0
    15 February 2012 10: 30
    A good machine, just as they said in IZHMASH, in the near future he did not enter the arsenal of the Russian army. Only in Special Forces.
  14. Eugene
    +1
    15 February 2012 11: 00
    It’s purely theoretically interesting for me: can it really be possible for our army to do anything except Kalash? In other words, for more than 60 years of the machine’s history, haven’t any alternative been found comparable in terms of reliability and simplicity of manufacture?
    I think that it is necessary to develop a new cartridge for the after-action of 5.45 is weak. I also read about sleeves made of hydrocarbon materials - you can invest in the cartridge itself, and make the sleeve heavier.
    1. +4
      15 February 2012 11: 55
      Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov said give the AK-74 a new one. and most importantly a quality cartridge and it will improve its performance by a third. and about 60 years old, but sat on someone else's glory, and not any development. AK is a great platform, but there is nothing eternal. my opinion is now needed restyling A-74 with all the canopies and a quality cartridge. forget about Izhmash and announce a tender for the development of a new rifle complex.
    2. Zynaps
      +4
      15 February 2012 23: 28
      5.45 not for "armored action" (otherwise you will have to hammer a depleted uranium core into the bullets), but for the ultimate defeat of the enemy. the Vietnam War showed that the powerful 7.62 ammunition did not have the desired lethal effect. there are too many injured, they say. A light bullet tumbling in a carcass gives a blind man with a much greater guarantee, even if he is hit in the limb from traumatic shock. in addition, 5.45 has better flatness (here we somehow managed to even hit a protruding heel in a slug) and a direct shot range. unlike 7.62. but in urban battles and in mountainous and wooded areas, a large caliber is preferable.

      universal weapons and ammunition in nature does not exist. you have to have everything in reserve. although there is a tendency toward the introduction of ammunition 6.5, to which, in immemorial times, the patriarch of the Russian arms Fedorov pointed out. but we will take a look.

      Yes, and the Kalashoid army is quite happy with it in principle. just people need
      teach and do not spare the cartridges for training.
    3. +1
      16 February 2012 23: 00
      Probably not a sleeve, but a bullet?
    4. aironfirst
      0
      18 February 2012 16: 23
      Quote: Eugene
      it is possible to vest the cartridge itself, and to weight the sleeve.

      you, dear, probably made a reservation smile
      cartridge = sleeve (capsule, charge) + bullet (shirt, core, lead belt)
    5. Perry
      0
      20 February 2012 21: 40
      I do not agree about 5.45. the army comes cheap and its modification curves. therefore he loses 5.56. but at 5.56, the entire resource of modernization was worked out and 5.45 was still on the way. There are suitable rounds of 5.45, but the price goes off scale. you can improve the usual or try to reduce the cost of existing brands 5.45. In general, wide scope for action
      1. Novosibirsky
        -1
        20 February 2012 21: 43
        Perry, and what does yours mean:

        Quote: Perry
        but 5.56 has the entire modernization resource
  15. Dust
    +4
    15 February 2012 11: 55
    It seemed to me that this is another chizhik, which our military-industrial complex ate ...
    Do not immediately throw slippers in ecstasy, but it seemed to me that in the new toy the dignity of the old machine gun was lost in pursuit of a very changeable weapon fashion ...
    What is the main advantage of the old faithful AK? Simplicity and reliability, everything else is secondary - and where is it now? Yes, there were large gaps - as the dirt was filling, it flew out, and now? I think that now it will be necessary to clean it as often as American women ...
    I draw all these conclusions only from beautiful pictures - let the little party judge ...
    1. 0
      16 February 2012 23: 09
      Yes, there were large gaps - as the dirt was filling, it flew out, and now?

      I agree! And most importantly, the water poured out!
      The same M16 has a big problem with use in a humid environment ... The relative tightness of the receiver leads to the fact that even with an open bolt in the barrel, a "capillary effect" is observed, i.e. when water enters the bore, it does not flow out of there without partial disassembly.
  16. Charon
    +7
    15 February 2012 12: 07
    Apparently there is more noise than sense.
    More convenient, more functional, yes. But there are no fundamental changes. There is no reason to loudly call it the fifth generation for a qualitative leap in combat qualities (accuracy, effective range) is not visible. 4+. Maybe 4 ++. And then the initial division into 4 generations is very conditional.
    By the fifth generation, it is necessary to understand a single shooting grenade launcher complex with a built-in computer. Moreover, the modular design.
    Now this would be a real step forward for 2-3 decades.
    Not sure if this system will last in production for so long.
    1. +1
      15 February 2012 12: 42
      And at whose expense will this banquet with computers? laughing
      1. Charon
        +3
        15 February 2012 13: 19
        And without a computer and without computerized equipment in the spirit of "Star Wars", the game will not be worth the candle at all.
        Either fork out in full, or run with the old Kalash in HB.
        Half measures in this case for sure - money down the drain.
        1. 0
          15 February 2012 14: 29
          Electronics is needed, no one argues. But integrate it into small arms ... So far this is a perversion. It is better to hang on any soldier pieces.
          1. Charon
            0
            15 February 2012 15: 53
            Do not tell, do not tell. Looking for someone. It’s not necessary to hang pieces for every soldier, as well as to give not every superweapon.
            Of course we are talking about special forces.
            Threat accidentally minus, but corrected the error by the post above.
    2. +2
      16 February 2012 23: 20
      I myself am a shooter with experience ... and, to be honest, I do not understand what a computer in a machine can give?
      In a sniper rifle, yes! Automatic calculation of corrections, etc.
      And with automatic shooting in real combat, this, IMHO, will only interfere!

      If the hands are crooked and the eyes are slanting, then no computer will help! :)

      Another thing is the quality and characteristics of the barrel ... Here they write that they changed the rifling ... But how did they change it? Form? Number? Rifling pitch? from here it will be clear how to change the accuracy, etc. That's what is important! but not what generation it is, how many megabytes and megapixels are there "on board" ... :)
      1. +1
        17 February 2012 01: 54
        At first I wanted to answer in the spirit of: "the child has seen enough computer shooters" Then he remembered the concept of a modular rifle-grenade launcher complex. (like the Belgian FN F2000) True, there the entire electronic brain is reduced to a pair of LEDs in the sight (rangefinder and ballistic computer) A very controversial thing, But amers promise to go further and teach how to program underbarrel grenades at a detonation distance. She already flies along a ballistic trajectory, and then it will also explode, flying through the window, half a meter "outside the window". In short, there is a concept, but at the research level. The future, on this topic, has not yet arrived.
  17. +3
    15 February 2012 12: 48
    Wretched !!!
    Polishes and tunings of Kalash around the world to x ..... up to the throat! Our specialists didn’t put up their "bike", and even a new yak !?

    am I recommend, for example, http://topwar.ru/8535-novyy-cheshskiy-avtomat-cz-805-bren.html
    1. Mr. Truth
      +2
      15 February 2012 21: 39
      And if Izhmash removes the same action movie, will you like the AK-12?)

      Seriously, there is nothing new in the machine. How does it differ in characteristics from other peers? Nothing.
    2. Zynaps
      0
      15 February 2012 23: 51
      Well, what did you want to say, expert? among the Czechs, since vz. 58, no more machine guns have been adopted for service. especially for a low-pulse cartridge. They began to develop their machine gun for 5.45x39 Lada-2000 in the late 80s, by the way, on the basis of the AK-74, but with an improved trigger. And then, despite the good parameters (accuracy is 1.2 times better than that of the M-16), the weapon did not go into the series and no one began to buy it from the Czechs. and with joining NATO, the Czechs need weapons under 5.56. so they what, their ancient gaze-58 to rearrange? We looked at the Poles, how they famously loaded their own Kalashoids "beryl" and "tantalum" under the NATO cartridge, and made the same Kalashoid in mechanics, but in appearance more according to the NATO standard, only took into account the trends of the times and made a modular weapon.

      there are no responses on the new "chezetka" yet. and what to gossip about? about design? you will lisp about wretchedness when you personally hold it in your paws and shoot from the barrel to white heat. or so you want to blurt out your dung on the product?

      and the Jews made the new Galil-Ace. So what?
  18. NovoSibirets
    +7
    15 February 2012 12: 50
    I have a strange feeling that when they show the AK-12 everything, hitherto adequate, users turn into trolls! )))
    Apparently, this is still my problem. laughing
    1. +3
      15 February 2012 13: 01
      They brought it! Just finished !!! How much can you put fried eggs for God's gift, and even thrust snow into the Eskimos ...
    2. +5
      15 February 2012 23: 45
      NovoSibirets,
      Yes, everything is in order, do not worry, just every schoolchild was holding AK in his hands, so the "specialists" are above the roof. For me, so for, so to speak, linear units, there should be nothing superfluous - a grenade launcher, yes, optics - maybe it would be nice to have a new cartridge, but everything else is from the evil one, for the special forces all these bells and whistles are good, and for mobilized, the simpler, the more effective. Answer if you have time, I appreciate your opinion
      1. NovoSibirets
        +4
        16 February 2012 00: 05
        Thanks of course, Rocketeer. )) My opinion almost completely coincides with yours!
        On my own I will add only that the AK scheme is a guarantee that your barrel will not let you down in any situation. And considering the improvements made to the AK-12, it's almost perfect! It has everything you need for combined arms combat. And in the presence of a proper body kit - a grenade launcher, in which I would subjectively lengthen the barrel, for a more accurate shot, collimator, optics, if necessary - then there is nothing to wish for at all. Plastic figurines, such as SCAR, for incomplete disassembly of which it is necessary to take away the butt and use a multitool without fail - I do not trust. IMHO "SUV".
        And in general, a strange position - TTX rifles have not yet been seen, but already do not like. It seems that most of those present with this trunk in front of the girls show off.
        The only thing that confuses me is two things in the AK-12, the first is a relatively long muzzle brake compensator, clearly longer than that of the AK-74, the second, which has already been voiced above, is the need to mount sights directly on the receiver cover. According to the DTC, this is a strange decision, because any reduction in the dimensions of the rifle without sacrificing performance characteristics is useful. Perhaps this is due to the fact that the DTK on the AK-12 is adapted for firing with barrel grenades. On the sights on the KSK: it is not clear how the rifle will behave when removing the KSK, the impact of a rifle on something. Wouldn't it be necessary to bring the rifle back to normal combat after every take of the KSK ?! After all, the setting is not cool - fine. Even if everything is fitted flush on the new rifle, then where is the guarantee that there will not be any play with operation, which will lead to the above dances with tambourines ... We will wait for the opinions of specialists, and observe the fate of AK-12))
        Oh yes. A new ammunition is needed, and IMHO it is not even necessary to put it on a new caliber, but rather to improve the quality of domestic ammunition, because it is no secret that the same AK, on ​​imported ammunition, shows other figures. Personally, I like 5,56.
        1. 0
          17 February 2012 01: 42
          It is necessary, it is not necessary, what is needed ..... each has his own view from his bell tower.
          If I am not mistaken (otherwise give a link), clearly articulated by those. assignments, and even general wishes / statements from responsible persons for the new rifle complex was not to be seen.
          But in general, the thought stubbornly gnaws at the idea that all the fuss of recent times in the range of rearmament / equipment issues (and not only) of the Russian army and navy is nothing more than another "cunning" move of the authorities on the eve of the elections
  19. dred
    +1
    15 February 2012 12: 54
    It’s a pity that they will not deliver this year. And then I’ll go to the army in this. I thought maybe I’ll shoot.
    1. +4
      15 February 2012 15: 03
      naive! there is the possibility that you don’t shoot anything at all in a year! good luck in the service! the main thing is to remain a man after the army.
  20. caiman crocodilus
    +5
    15 February 2012 14: 00
    The decision to mount the optics on the top of the receiver seems controversial to me. The swivel and latch will loosen over time and play will appear.
    1. +5
      15 February 2012 20: 08
      I think there is no need for optics on the machine, but a collimator sight for effective shooting "off the hook" in urban conditions would not hurt.
      1. +1
        15 February 2012 23: 51
        Andrew,
        vskidku, in urban conditions, the sight is not needed, if you do not know how, you're the 200th, but you still need a collimator, it's true
        1. +1
          16 February 2012 23: 33
          Guys ...
          Well, tell me, fool, why do I need this collimator on a mass machine? Did you shoot with him yourself?
          For some special operations it may be necessary and let it be! ... But for an ordinary fighter you need a regular open sight! Everything else closes the review and really hinders the fast fire ...
          1. +1
            17 February 2012 00: 19
            Collimator closes the view. Shshikarno! winked
  21. mib1982
    +2
    15 February 2012 14: 31
    I think a good machine. But to achieve such fame as in AK47 is unlikely to succeed.
    1. fktrctqxbr
      -6
      15 February 2012 17: 02
      So the fucking machine laughing
  22. Sleptsoff
    0
    15 February 2012 16: 58
    I hope when they re-equip the production, it will not look so artisanal.
    1. fktrctqxbr
      -5
      15 February 2012 18: 15
      With such a gun in his hands, hope dies last. laughing
  23. 755962
    +1
    15 February 2012 18: 24
    You can argue for a long time about the advantages and disadvantages of AK. For me, IMHO is best said by its image on the flags. He is present or was present on the flags and emblems of several countries of the world: East Timor, Zimbabwe, Mozambique. There the guys really looked at him.
  24. +3
    15 February 2012 20: 05
    AK used to be a great weapon, I think the new receiver cover will make the new muzzle brake more convenient, but I wouldn’t like such a butt from Beretta. But what you need to develop new is the ammunition.
    1. Mr. Truth
      +2
      15 February 2012 21: 35
      I agree that existing rifle ammunition does not meet the requirements of modern combat. We need a new intermediate cartridge as the main rifle.
  25. Sleptsoff
    0
    15 February 2012 20: 35
    As a massive machine gun, it will do, but for specialists you need something more high-tech, albeit complex. Enough to be guided by the slogan "cheap and cheerful".
  26. serezha.fedotoff2013
    +5
    15 February 2012 20: 59

    The AK-12 axis of the butt coincides with the axis of the barrel, which increases the accuracy of fire, the same is true for weapons of the M16 family. In previous machines of the AK family, the axes did not coincide. This, as well as modified rifling and a bullet hole in the barrel, will undoubtedly increase accuracy and accuracy, and according to these indicators, the AK-12 will not be inferior to the M4
    1. Mr. Truth
      +2
      15 February 2012 21: 31
      AK-74 and so surpasses the M-4, primarily in terms of slaughter. Element 5,56 is 20 and 24 inch trunks, less from unclean already. Only in 2010, 5,56 was brought to mind by releasing the M855A1 (262 brands do not count from only 20 inches), which again was brought to mind by replacing it with an improved M855A1 (they replaced part of the bullet material. There are optimization for bits and optimization for M249, and the pressure was raised even higher (where else?) and the penetration ability with lethal action was raised, the accuracy became lower, and the ballistic coefficient was lost with a belt.
      1. -2
        15 February 2012 22: 28
        It depends on which AK-74. There is a misconception when M4 is compared with any AK. In real life, M4 needs to be compared with shortened AKs.
        1. Mr. Truth
          0
          16 February 2012 00: 49
          With a shorter AK, even shorter Ar-15-shki should be compared.
    2. Zynaps
      +3
      15 February 2012 23: 35
      due to the fact that the AK line of the barrel does not coincide with the line of the butt, the soldier sitting in the trench does not stick out a blunt zalupa, but merges with the ground. one must be able to shoot weapons - then with accuracy and with hits everything will be normal.

      for some reason the Germans also lowered the butt line of their "assault guns". due to innate dullness, apparently?

      to compare the hypothetical AK-12, which was not yet held by the soldiers, to a large extent, with the M-4 shushpangever is a sign of frank FGM. let the better shooters talk about it.
      1. Mr. Truth
        0
        16 February 2012 00: 48
        Why is it hypothetical, there is a photo, there is a sample itself, it is being finalized, there is a video with shooting.
        And why not compare the M-4 with the AK-74, if the AK with a 415 mm barrel is compared so well with the 508 mm M-16, putting the AK at a disadvantage.
        1. 0
          16 February 2012 08: 08
          Then how do you compare them: the caliber is different, the length is different, the principle of action is different.
          Well, there is an elongated AK modification, so to speak: sniper version: extended by 70mm, accuracy is equal to SVD - I won’t say more precisely, I don’t remember. If anyone finds and shares a link, I will be glad.
          1. Mr. Truth
            0
            16 February 2012 11: 08
            The caliber is the same, the scope is the same.
    3. +1
      6 October 2012 22: 08
      Quote: serezha.fedotoff2013
      In AK-12, the axis of the butt coincides with the axis of the barrel channel, which increases the accuracy of fire,

      She matched another AKM.


      Quote: serezha.fedotoff2013
      This, as well as modified rifling and a pool entry

      Bluff.
  27. Mr. Truth
    +3
    15 February 2012 21: 32
    Updated Automatic is. Now an intermediate cartridge of the second generation is needed.
    1. Zynaps
      0
      15 February 2012 23: 40
      well, the "grendel" is already ready and even showed itself quite well, so there is such ammunition in fact. another thing is that, according to the weapons developers themselves, the 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 ammunition have not exhausted their potential. and if so, then
      following the golden rule "if it works, don't touch it!" the prospects for the new patron are rather vague.

      sobsna, "grendel" based on the Soviet 7.62 and was developed. why the Americans are trying to fight off him with their feet and are stubbornly trying to foist on everyone a new ammunition from Remington with the worst characteristics.
      1. Mr. Truth
        +1
        16 February 2012 00: 43
        Grendel sleeve based on a bloom cartridge, not M43.
        The low-pulse cartridges have exhausted themselves.
        We need cartridges with intermediate characteristics between rifle and low-pulse, this will be the second generation of intermediate ones. This is not grendel and remingtones, a little more powerful is needed.
        And the grendel is expensive, so the Americans are disowning it (although it can easily replace two calibers) and remington is just a misunderstanding, it is more effective than 5,56, but it does not have any ballistic advantages, the kuktsa bullet.
  28. +2
    15 February 2012 23: 48
    I will say it as not the main user of such a device. It was not our main weapon. But I liked the AK-47 at one time. And put "targets" out of it without question. Outwardly, I like the new machine. Yes, and according to my modest knowledge of small arms - there will be no "pasture". To put it mildly. In general, it looks like a Russian machine gun. While it is impossible to talk about the characteristics and reliability. There is no info. In general - wait and see. I am for this machine.
  29. serezha.fedotoff2013
    0
    16 February 2012 00: 12
    Quote: Zynaps
    for some reason the Germans also lowered the butt line of their "assault guns". due to innate dullness, apparently?

    Do you have the Germans as the standard of wisdom?
  30. Nechai
    0
    16 February 2012 00: 45
    Quote: Phoenixl
    But in my opinion the most interesting will be 6,5mm

    I agree. An interesting then "zigzag" will make a design thought, returning a century later to the thoughts of Fedorov ...
    Quote: fktrctqxbr
    I remember they called it "toy machine", and its characteristics were not inferior to our samples.

    And the PLA also has "plasticine", which was indescribably surprised by our paratroopers at joint exercises. But very cheap, each soldier his own new machine. A soldier for demobilization, a machine gun for scrap. All he completed his life cycle.
    Quote: Zynaps
    powerful 7.62 ammunition does not have the desired lethal effect

    The Yugoslavs created 7,62X39 with a bullet that creates such a wound channel! Where there are 5,56 and 5,45. Death from pain shock is guaranteed. And when meeting with an "armored" barrier, they retain the power of the impact of a conventional bullet.
    1. +3
      16 February 2012 00: 55
      So I also thought about this, it seems to me that it’s time for us to improve the cartridges, it has already been repeatedly proved that NATO cartridges are better than ours, it is necessary to improve the quality, improve gunpowder, it is possible to come up with another explosive explosive, this will increase the level of accuracy of our weapons without compromising reliability .
      1. Mr. Truth
        +2
        16 February 2012 11: 14
        5,56x45 mm SS109, has never been better than ours, it is more accurate, but not much more accurate. According to external and terminal ballistics, 5,45 is better, while the return on our cartridge is less. 5,45 can be used with any length of the trunk, you will always receive a massive wound channel. And 5,56 is maximally slaughtered only when firing from long barrels.
        Need a new cartridge. And 5,45 and 5,56 ammunition of a bygone era.
  31. Bener
    +1
    16 February 2012 15: 00
    I myself am from Ukraine, but I have been following this site for a long time for news in general and for the new machine in particular. I express my opinion: the machine is relevant.
    Let's remember what the ground forces of the NATO camp are armed with now, well, the United States - M16A4 and M4A2. Of course there are both SCAR and ACR, which are very interesting (judging by the performance characteristics), but so far only the special forces of NATO countries have them. Yes, and about 10 years, every soldier will not be armed with them, you must agree.
    Of course, it’s difficult to judge different weapons from the user’s side (the AKS74M maximum is closely familiar), but that’s not the point. Everyone understands the same AKS74m (aka AK74M) is quite sufficient for modern military combat. Well, not quite, but with a stretch. So the AK-12 takes into account all the features that were not enough for the AK. This is a convenient translator of fire modes and a fuse and bolt delay, which will allow faster, much faster transfer weapons to combat mode, and this is extremely important, especially for non-army special forces. This is a convenient and customizable butt - everyone who had to shoot a lot of AK, they know how the neck goes numb if the dimensions of the arrow are not standard (my 196 cm for example))) + the aiming line is higher and longer, and this is a huge plus. In addition, picatini rails - this is what really was missing. Now your weapon can be equipped with any body kit, of which an incredible amount in the arms store and even body kit of the alleged enemy. In addition, according to the developer, the return is reduced, and this is also good.
    If by the end of 2013 all the ground forces were equipped (and this is possible since the tapes on the AK are adjusted) AK-12, the Russian army will be equipped with the best weapons of combat characteristics in the aggregate.
    Well, the cartridge really needs to be created a new one. As much as possible unified with the old of the same caliber.

    Shermans and T-34s in the battles with Panthers in the Second World War proved that upgrading the good is always better than creating a fundamentally new one.

    In the case of special units of both the army and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, I think everyone understands that the AK series survived itself. Such units need to be equipped with special weapons, if possible, with a new generation universal assault rifle. Although even now the set of created samples when bringing them to mind is quite sufficient for all tasks.
  32. +2
    16 February 2012 15: 05
    Finally, they deigned to integrate the rail guides and the telescopic butt normally. For good, this should have been done ten years ago. It is unfortunate that the mines were not made into a store and new stores, like German ones.
    1. Bener
      +2
      16 February 2012 15: 17
      So this is the base model. They promise something about 20 kinds of machine. I am sure there is a balanced automation, and it will be different in every way. And there are all kinds of shops in the sea. Especially pleasing multi-row store for 60 rounds. Those who try are very praised. What was required for a reliable friend of AK was to modernize and make it more convenient. At first sight.
  33. Bener
    0
    16 February 2012 15: 35
    And then they laugh at me.
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dfe_1317998654
    Reliability is the main advantage for army weapons.
  34. sergskak
    0
    16 February 2012 17: 59
    We have a lot of (new products) and excellent design solutions (balanced mechanism) I like the military very much, but imagine: before the fight you will be offered a choice of AN-94, AEK-971 or AK-74 of any series, even AK-12 .What will you choose for a long and intense battle without the ability to disassemble and clean, or somehow look after your weapons at the moment? My choice would be obvious is the AK-74. I have more than once tested in battles and to whom I can trust my life! I in no case against new products, but they need the same test in battle.
    1. fktrctqxbr
      -4
      16 February 2012 19: 18
      Another battle check ????? sad fool Is it again zinc coffins and mother’s tears ???
      Well, I do not!!! sad
      Let you have doubts full of "barns", but the boys will be alive.
  35. 0
    16 February 2012 19: 39
    Strongly incorrect concept of the problem.......... "doubts full of barns"... then can cost thousands and thousands of lives of boys .....
  36. sergskak
    0
    16 February 2012 20: 13
    fktrctqxbr, Here the guys will be alive thanks to the reliability of the weapon! You are probably a little girl to discuss such issues. Don’t worry, your young man will return thanks to the old, good AK. Do not discuss what you don’t know at all !!! I'm not talking about M-16 modifications in any variations. Well, where is it seen, that would hit the rammer several times during the battle !!! Dur is a full house.
  37. sergskak
    0
    16 February 2012 20: 34
    fktrctqxbr, And yes; if someone puts a minus to you, then it's not me. I understand your opinion.
  38. +1
    16 February 2012 20: 47
    but for me a pretty machine, I think it will be as reliable as its predecessor. Picantini is, the butt is telescope, the accuracy is increased, the fire switch is convenient, if it is also reliable as the previous models, what else is needed except for serial production good
  39. sergskak
    +1
    16 February 2012 21: 01
    kubanec, I really like the shutter lag, the location of the loading lever, the new muzzle brake compensator, as stated, reduces the return, let's see, compare. And picatini will evaluate if there is anything to hang.
    1. Nikita_Ilyin
      +1
      16 February 2012 22: 50
      It would be a place kit found. wink
  40. 0
    16 February 2012 23: 32
    and they decided to abandon the bayonet-knife as an inhumane weapon?
    1. NovoSibirets
      0
      17 February 2012 19: 20
      The seat for the bayonet-knife is provided ._________
  41. +2
    16 February 2012 23: 43
    The article does not cover several interesting issues:

    As we know, on the 100th series, the impulse from the movement of the bolt carrier and its impact on the receiver was compensated by using the idea of ​​"balanced automation". Is there a balanced automation in the AK-12?

    There is a hand-to-hand combat complex using AK. Among other things, there are butt kicks. Can a plastic telescopic butt support withstand shock?
    Is the bayonet-knife intended to be attached to the machine?

    And the last one. Americans can be arbitrarily hungry with plastic butts and forearm. Because they have 9 months in the year of heat. Almost no frosts. And we do. Up to 6-months a year or more, by the way. In this regard, the question is - how do plastic parts behave in the cold, say, -25, -30? Not in terms of strength, but in the sense of freezing to human skin (everyone probably knows what will happen if you grab onto an iron pipe with a bare hand in severe frost, and even better to lick it :)). As you know, the main advantage of a tree is that it can be freely taken with your hands (if the butt, then touch your cheek) in any frost. It seems to me that this is not such a trifle to neglect it.
    1. +1
      17 February 2012 02: 06
      nor what in AK74m assault rifles adopted by the Russian army, has plastic been used for a long time? not to mention more modern models?
      1. +1
        17 February 2012 07: 27
        I was thinking when they remember it. laughing
        I want to add that already with AKM, the mass of the equipped machine was already about 3.5kg ...
        In general, you can look here and compare the weight of the main machines of the world
        http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C0%CA74#.D0.9E.D1.86.D0.B5.D0.BD.D0.BA.D0.B0_.D0.B
        0.D0.B2.D1.82.D0.BE.D0.BC.D0.B0.D1.82.D0.B0
      2. +1
        21 February 2012 23: 52
        It's nothing.

        There was a fur collar on the old winter uniform, which could be raised in the cold, i.e. the butt did not touch the face.
        The new Mudashkin uniform has no collar.

        Take somehow, for example, Saigu in plastic, wait for frosts under 30 and go shoot.
        Then write about the sensations.
  42. 0
    17 February 2012 12: 35
    I wonder why the mine was not made under the store? or, at least as in the photo.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5_Ry9RCyw8&feature=player_embedded#!
    1. NovoSibirets
      0
      17 February 2012 18: 38
      Quote: Bad_gr
      didn’t do mine for the store? or, at least as in the photo.

      Apparently because it is not known which store the fighter will have to use, 30, 60 or 90 rounds (disk). Apparently from these considerations.
      Disk just does not fit into the receiver with this option as in the photo. Yes, and what significant use is it? In this mine. Weight only increases.
      1. 0
        17 February 2012 18: 55
        Quote: NovoSibirets
        Apparently because it is not known which store the fighter will have to use, 30, 60 or 90 rounds (disk). Apparently from these considerations.
        Disk just does not fit into the receiver with this option as in the photo.

        I agree. I didn’t think about non-standard stores

        Quote: NovoSibirets
        Yes, and what significant use is it? In this mine.

        Well, don't tell me. In "Saiga-30", a store without the Kama Sutra can only be inserted by pulling the bolt back, despite the fact that there are no problems with the mine. Here, of course, not a 12 gauge, but the mine would speed up the change of the magazine.
        1. NovoSibirets
          0
          17 February 2012 19: 08
          Well .., if you change 60 local stores or more, I think the question of speeding up the process for 1 second is not critical, so that they can drag the extra 100 grams on a rifle ..
    2. 0
      17 February 2012 19: 47
      The mine has its own shortcomings + we go our own way, the more AK can manage to recharge in 3 seconds. winked
  43. 0
    17 February 2012 15: 09
    There is a fat store. Four row?
    [img = left] https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gnLsdRplAds/Tz40taxn3fI/AAAAAAAAABU8
    /vtRlGv4Nerw/s512/%D0%B0%D0%BA-12.JPG[/img]
  44. 0
    17 February 2012 15: 48
    On the machine a thick shop. Four-row for 60 rounds?
    1. NovoSibirets
      0
      17 February 2012 18: 36
      Quote: Bad_gr
      Four-row for 60 rounds?

      _____________ Yes.
  45. NovoSibirets
    0
    17 February 2012 20: 56
    By the way, gentlemen, I was amused by how the person in the store presented in the article presented in the article was charging. With a punch! It's funny .. I couldn’t somehow think of such a thing. The grasp is the same, the whole technique is the same, but to strike ... Pay anyone who is interested.
    Funny ...)))
    1. 0
      17 February 2012 23: 59
      I also charged in the Army. Only the grip of the store was a little different. You put the store for charging bullets to yourself, the thumb along the cartridges. When charging, you put the cartridge in the store, under the thumb, which is slightly raised and slightly bent, then at the same time a mild blow by the store on the table, and the thumb down (on the cartridge) and away from you. The cartridge falls into the magazine and moves all the way to the bottom of the cartridge case against the wall of the magazine. In general, it turns out very quickly.
      PS
      I'm not sure what I explained intelligently.
  46. Vilis
    0
    23 February 2012 11: 22
    I'm not special in this business!) recourseBut do not you think that you need to create a new machine, from 0 !!! AK-12 is certainly cool! But in one place you don’t need to create a new one. more practical !!
    1. +1
      20 September 2013 18: 08
      Tell me what exactly to create? On which diagram? Reliability and unpretentiousness (and believe me as a person who spent two years in Afghanistan), he has no equal! It is still impossible to fundamentally change the design - a massive bolt frame with a piston, the main module, due to its large mass, which allows the automatics to work out perfectly in any weather climatic and combat conditions, in order to clog the feces to a state of dysfunction it is necessary to pour a handful of sand into the bolt box (and even that open the cover shake the sand blow the shutter shutter and in 80 percent of the case it will work) and with the M-16 AND AR-15 (M4) such tricks will not work! Yes, there is a big advantage to the Stoner scheme in firing accuracy and low recoil, well, even in modularity, the AR family is almost brought up to a modular molding system what you want! But that’s all! I spent a year in the states firing from ar-15, I was a member of the shooting club and I can say that I was very pleased with the work of the AR-15 ..but .. THIS RIFLE IS EXACTLY NOT FOR THE ARMY, it is more suitable for sports, it’s ideal for practical shooting it must not even be constantly cleaned and PIDOROSAT! and not by improvised means at all, but by special several types of lubricants and chemistry. Plus, flimsy, she will very often give on the helmet (there were even cases of a simple fall on concrete) and everything in her hands is not a rifle but a piece of iron and luminium. Kalash, on the other hand, is an ideal infantry weapon, and in this case the 12th cured quite a lot of Kalash flaws and may it be better than say the much-abandoned Abakan. By the way, in the states, among shooters, Kalash has a very good attitude (especially to the old AK-47) —they can actually appreciate the difference in reliability because they perfectly understand that in battle the reliability and reliability of a weapon is your life! (NOT THE PRESCRIBED PRECISION AR15)
  47. Zorond
    0
    19 March 2012 22: 21
    openwork, Kalash, still about ak9 article posted
  48. 0
    28 June 2012 20: 35
    Video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qVgYvPoGMGQ leaves a good impression on this machine
  49. 0
    25 July 2012 20: 42
    Where is the standard optical sight with a magnification of at least 3,5X on a new machine?
    They save again, they are preparing our guys for slaughter again.
    Or he can put all the AK-12s involved in the design into one trench, and, on the contrary, put volunteers into the trenches at a distance of 600 meters, the same number, but with the Heckler Koch G36 and Beretta ARX-160 (optical sights with multiples are standard on these machines) 3,5X).
    And in half an hour to see how many vacant posts will be vacated in the Izhmashevsky design bureau. Previously, the chief designer and the superintendent of the bridge during the tests got up under their bridge. This tradition should be revived.