Everything is in Russian: there is no money, but there is effective management

180


Once again I plunge into the problems of our space industry, once again I am convinced that we need a broom. From steel wire, in order to drive the "effective" to hell.



The storms died down, Rogozin once again revealed to the world the face of a populist, and everything remained the same. “Yeah,” said the men and went to cut the forest with two-handed saws.

Probably, this is my last story about one of the most significant enterprises in the space industry, about KBX. The latter is because the last informant didn’t endure the life of an engineer and preferred to be an engineer at an enterprise with a simpler name, but with a level of pay in 2,5 times more than his last salary in KBKHA.

Of course, air conditioners in the mall are not a test of rocket engines. But an empty refrigerator can completely freeze any patriotism. Proven.

What caused such a reaction, concluded in two documents, copies of which are with me.

The first document is the appeal of the trade union (the last, apparently, the manifestation, after which the chairman of the trade union committee also quit) to the executive director of the KMAC Kamyshev.

The text was compiled by literate people, I will not comment on anything, everything can be seen from the text. The document was drawn up on 15 in March of this year and is filed on the same day at the instance.





Now one more question. What do you think happened next?

And nothing. This appeal simply returned to the performer without any marks. True, the sheets with the signatures of employees have not returned. Apparently, left to find out who exactly does not like the situation.

And March 20 was all overjoyed by the Order. Signed by the aforementioned executive director.

"On the approval of corporate values."



Nothing so dokumentik. I am glad that there was time for his signing. However, the comedy and idiocy of the situation is not in the order. And in the annex to the order, in which it was communicated to the employees, which, in fact, was meant by Mr. Executive Director. More precisely, he signed.





The masterpiece, obviously, belongs to the pen (more precisely, the fingers) of one of those beauties of model appearance, which Mr. Kamyshev dragged behind him. And each of which receives (according to employees) not 18-20 thousands of engineering, but in 4-5 more times.

The fact that all this writing was simply copied from the internal organs of a site that preaches the ideas of NLP will be seen by anyone with a naked eye. And the person who copied all this “friendliness and professionalism” didn’t bother much, let's say frankly.

Interesting for being "Mentor and Coach" will they pay extra, or should both specialties be combined in the corporate spirit? "Free of charge, I mean a gift"?

In general, it can take long to cultivate. Only I do not see the point.

Today we can ascertain the fact that the test complex (IC), which dealt (as can be seen from the letter) with a whole series of different tests for products of KBKHA and VSW (Voronezh Mechanical Plant, participant of the recent scandal with the recall of rocket engines), actually remains without experienced personnel .

It is worth noting that KBXA consists of two parts: the “main site”, where the engines are developed and assembled, and the “test complex”. Where, of course, experience.



At the main site, everything is more or less normal. Relatively, again. The test complex is purposefully killed, surviving from there the most important thing - trained and experienced workers.

Although they themselves leave, because, on the one hand, “thanks to our professional experience, we are leading in space exploration ... the competence and performance of our employees are an example for Russian and foreign companies,” but on the other hand, go to the page “hh.ru "And see for yourself.

https://voronezh.hh.ru/employer/2142115

This is a straightforward illustration of the “Are you weak?” Program. How about becoming a productive professional and setting an example to the whole world in the field of testing rocket engines? For 16 500 rubles per month? I do not know how in other cities, but in Voronezh it is the salary of the seller-cashier or conductor on the bus.

It would be funny to show this link to Mr. Rogozin. I wonder what he would say?

Yes, he somehow in relation to the salaries at Vyksa said that it was a crime. And the fact that they are doing "effective" in the KBKHA is what?

And how many, say, more rockets should be added up because they were collected aby as “professional rocket builders” and tested by no less professional testers who are ready to work for those pennies that are offered to them by “effective managers”?

One gets the impression that neither Mr. Kamyshev, who signs the creations of his beauties, nor the beauties themselves, who are brought to the enterprise, do not understand who, but obviously not by an announcement on a “head-hunter,” do not understand this.

They have their own toys. In corporate philosophy.

But how this philosophy will make the engines work without accidents, it is incomprehensible to me. From the word "absolutely."

Probably, it is really vital that several more accidents and disasters happen when launching satellites. I would not want something to happen when launching the crews to the ISS and trucks with supplies.

And then, perhaps, when the prestige of the space industry in Russia will be at the level of the launching table, then, perhaps, Mr. Rogozin will not rush around the country with loud-speaking speeches, and will do exactly what he should. Bringing order.

And the order is not girls in development departments with salaries from 60 000 rubles and above, copying “masterpieces” from the Internet, and not the executive director, who has never worked in production, but literate professionals. From the plant, not from the bank.

Then we will consider the accident when launching the launch vehicle as an emergency and a catastrophe.

In the meantime, this is a normal reality, based on the fact that leadership positions are often not understood by anyone, but not by experts. But experts “leave”, as Rachuk “left”, who actually saved the plant in 90, and survive those who are still able to benefit the country, because the space industry is not baking cakes after all.

Probably, Kamyshev and his henchmen have a blue dream - to put in all the “old grumblers” (although some of them still don't have 40) and recruit new ones. Which will not understand anything in the engines, but will be adherents of "corporate philosophy". And they will strictly follow all the points of that nonsense that gentlemen "effective" preach like that.

That's when we will definitely “do” both Americans and Chinese. Master the moon and fly to Mars.

After all, the corporate spirit is the main thing for such a plant as the KBXA. Probably, it is necessary to introduce in our entire space industry.

And forward to the stars.

Postscript: I understand perfectly well that the documents I cited here as evidence can cause both surprise and mistrust. Well, there can not be such a frank idiocy. Alas, maybe. Taking pictures from this nonsense, I deliberately cut the signatures “familiarized” and the rest. Just not to substitute those through whom these papers came to me. Ethics. But, unfortunately, these copies are made from valid documents.

When publishing these creations, I still hope that in some places where they read and take us seriously, they will think a little about the situation, and perhaps take steps to stop entertaining the company, by a strange and stupid coincidence in leadership is truly one of the most important enterprises of the space industry.
180 comments
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  1. +27
    27 March 2017 05: 35
    Masterpieces and more! And so in almost all defense industry enterprises.
    1. +11
      27 March 2017 07: 27
      The space industry and commerce should not overlap, otherwise we will release fridge magnets instead of rockets for profit
      1. +7
        27 March 2017 10: 24
        Say it to SpaceX
        1. +4
          27 March 2017 15: 46
          SpaceX which earned nothing and sits at the state boobs called nasa?
          1. +6
            27 March 2017 16: 44
            More than half of SpaceX's contracts with private firms.
            For example, we look at the last launched satellite, and where is the state boob?
            EchoStar 23, or EchoStar XXIII, is a geostationary communications satellite owned by the US satellite operator EchoStar Corporation. Designed to provide telecommunications services in Brazil.

            Of the three launches made this year, two are for private firms, and one is for the state. During the same time, Roscosmos made only one launch, under the state contract, and zero launches for private owners.
            1. 0
              27 March 2017 18: 45
              God ... yes, the mask is a crook trivial)) there will be no profit there, do not have illusions
              1. +5
                27 March 2017 18: 59
                I overtook Russia three times on start-ups this year, slight success is direct. lol
        2. +1
          27 March 2017 23: 51
          Quote: BlackMokona
          Say it to SpaceX

          All US "private" space companies are actually parasitic on government resources.
          1. +2
            28 March 2017 00: 53
            There’s a ten minute video on YouTube. A rocket was launched there in Texas.

            Impressed.

            The engine put the module into orbit. Then he returned to the ground and landed very beautifully.

            Then the module landed on parachutes.


            All this is beautifully shown in the video.

            A week ago. The tests were.
          2. +1
            28 March 2017 11: 36
            And what government resources do SpaceX get for free?
            1. +1
              29 March 2017 08: 50
              Development, staff. How many Musk paid for engine blueprints or a "moonlit" system. Qualified Design Engineers from NASA. SpaceX is nothing more than a commercial branch of NASA, with a sign in the face of Mask.
              Moreover, Musk himself can well raise funds and present goods.
              1. +3
                29 March 2017 14: 33
                What development? The engine was developed by his company, NASA did not have a vertical landing system from space to Earth. A moon without atmosphere and much lower gravity is completely incomparable in complexity.
                NASA is not involved in the development of the launch vehicle, this was done by contractors in the person of Boeing, Lothid, etc. Therefore, they did not have any personnel for the development of the launch vehicle.
    2. +15
      27 March 2017 08: 36
      A masterpiece of course!
      I recalled the film "Height", although it also turns out the "work" of the tops through excuses, and hard workers risk their lives!
      This once again suggests that on the management of enterprises you need to put professionals, not defective managers (read sellers)!
      1. +2
        27 March 2017 23: 26
        on the management of enterprises you need to put professionals


        Well, so what's the problem? demand from "those who put" let others put. the firm is probably the sovereign, then it is managed not by the owner but by some minister, a servant of the people.

        Can't demand? here the servants have gone ... what do you demand from them - immediately the "fifth column"
    3. +1
      27 March 2017 11: 43
      Quote: parafoiler
      Masterpieces and more! And so in almost all defense industry enterprises.

      And you go to all managed to visit, to delve into? This is from the same category as all officials without exception are thieves and all managers are fools. I wonder where only these officials and managers come from? From another planet or what? No, they are from the same, including you. Yes, there are a lot of fools and idiots today and fools continue to amaze an army of their own kind, but all the same I suppose they are not the majority, otherwise you can be safely attributed to them with the same ease as you do. Fools must be fought wherever they are, and not with officials, managers and the authorities of the system, tired of the Maidan. Here the author gives you one example.
      1. +7
        27 March 2017 12: 49
        Quote: SPACE
        I wonder where only these officials and managers come from? From another planet or what? No, they are from the same, including you. Yes, there are a lot of fools and idiots today and fools continue to amaze an army of their own kind, but all the same I suppose they are not the majority, otherwise you can be safely attributed to them with the same ease as you do. Fools must be fought wherever they are, and not with officials, managers and the authorities of the system, tired of the Maidan. Here the author gives you one example.

        “I understand why mediocrity rules the world. They don’t drink and in the morning they begin to pursue their careers.” Frunzik Mkrtchyan
        "The problem of this world is that educated people are full of doubts, and go. They are full of confidence." Charles Bukowski
        1. +1
          27 March 2017 18: 15
          Quote: Cube123
          The problem of this world is that educated people are full of doubts, and go. They are full of confidence. "Charles Bukowski

          Yes, only confident people could write and quote it.
          Quote: Cube123
          “I understand why mediocrity rules the world. They don’t drink and in the morning they begin to pursue their careers.” Frunzik Mkrtchyan

          "To alcoholics and parasites, there is no place in the government" popular wisdom.
          hi
      2. +11
        27 March 2017 17: 01
        And where did you hear about maidan? Only in the country nothing will change for the better until the system is changed, until a fair Constitution of an independent and truly social State with a planned economy and popular power is adopted by popular vote. And not by the power of thieves-oligarchs-officials, covering up their thieves and treacherous essence with false patriotism. "Our" power and supporters (or rather managers, bulk - the two sides of the same traitorous and hostile to the people of the company.
        1. 0
          27 March 2017 18: 18
          Quote: NordUral
          And where did you hear about maidan?

          In your empty bowler hat ...
      3. +4
        30 March 2017 12: 53
        Dear COSMOS. It's not that "... Yes, there are many fools and idiots now ...". The fact is that they occupy leadership positions. For example, I’ll give a comment from another site of a concerned person:
        "... I can’t scream anymore ..." The voice of one crying in the desert "begins to go into a dull resonance with a groan, more and more rocking the" interstellar "emptiness, the airless space between the commanding elite and us - the performers of the" impossible "... What will happen to my as a collective, with these Mohicans, in the full sense of the last, highly skilled multi-craftsmen who have grown together with their profession quantum ties. Which resisted any experiments periodically made with us: Coitus, disconnections, purchases / sales, reorganizations / optimizations, a beloved enterprise, repeatedly standing in any conditions, under different modes, keeping on its feet. Even when fingers were chopped on them, he resisted without losing the honest name of the signalman ... In those years of hard times, many had to leave, in search of a better life, no less skilled and reliable, but faced with a choice: Favorite business or bread? ... I do not judge them. Now the question is how to be the most, the most collective that, in spite of everything, has remained in order to taste the “last share” of the total reduction. They cut us, cut them off with a bucket of a multi-ton bulldozer, together with the “engineering layer”, so that there is not even a smell of spilled “oil” on the mechanisms, which from time to time have grown into one whole, trouble-free electronic cross-field. Why are these conspirators preparing the site? No one knows ... Taldychats are talking about some kind of crisis, according to some kind of evil irony and some kind of only one known law of "optimization" that does not affect the numerous, useless clerks at the top ... This young and early contingent, deciding the fate of wise experience. Why are experts, experienced, specialized, deeply thinking and broad, being "killed" throughout the country? Why, for the sake of the current desire for profit, the notorious profitability and "profitability", they sacrifice - reliability, stability and dependability, for the sake of cranes in the sky, some illiterate "new bosses", it is not clear from which stall they jumped into the high-tech workshop, they begin to break out in it everything brilliant to sell? I do not know who to contact? Will we be heard plain-looking, but reliable and already slightly powdered gray hair ... Do we need you, country? I scream, but I know that You, my Motherland, suffer with me ... So everywhere ... How to reach the raccooner, the one who goes hurrying to meet us? We still don’t hear his voice, but his ax breaking through the wind is heard in each of our offended hearts, deaf and ever-approaching echoes ... Will you be able to reach us before sunset? Let us know what needs to be done so that it may be at the cost of our own well-being, but stop this soulless destructive machine. We still have a reliable and reliable network, the site of which we protect, as we can ... Talk to us, the signalmen standing under the hanging sword, calm and admonish, or say goodbye to us, who served you honestly, Motherland ... We wait, hope and believe , we are Russian, which means patient and reliable ... If you can still - save us the country! We do not like to remain in debt ... We will work out and teach those who come after us to work.
    4. +9
      27 March 2017 12: 20
      Yes, so throughout the country, not counting the powers that be, security officials, judges and prosecutors. Comrades from United Russia know who to pay. But there is no money for the people, brace yourself.
    5. +14
      27 March 2017 13: 43
      Quote: parafoiler
      Masterpieces and more! And so in almost all defense industry enterprises.

      I will say more. Such masterpieces in almost all enterprises controlled by Muscovites. So much for the reform of education in action. As the saying goes: "The fish rots from the head."
    6. +9
      27 March 2017 18: 54
      I read and immediately remembered the song of Vanya Sparrow
    7. +9
      27 March 2017 19: 17
      Yes, do not tell, so in all the problematic sectors of the Russian Federation: utilities, construction, energy, etc. where rulyamchubaysy, curls, etc. moreover, they receive their unmeasured salaries for failures in full with the retinues. if you want to ditch the industry or enterprise, put the head of the economist-financier and the question will disappear by itself in 5 years.
  2. +28
    27 March 2017 06: 00
    We say one thing and do another! We are reducing the staff under the pretext of increasing salaries, but in fact we are increasing the functionality of workers and the salaries of managers. The main thing is revenue! So it became fashionable!
  3. +17
    27 March 2017 06: 20
    Everything is in Russian: there is no money, but there is effective management

    Roman raises his hand to our "everything." laughing laughing laughing
    There are no other buckets in power. request We have the power of managers. am
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. +23
    27 March 2017 06: 22
    Alas, the dominance of "leading managers" who graduated from fashionable economic universities and departments who do not know production will not lead to anything good. They have one task dust in the eye with beautiful numbers.
    1. +7
      27 March 2017 21: 30
      Quote: Sergey777
      dominance of "leading managers"

      And, after all, it didn’t start today. I remember that about fifteen years ago, passing by Pyaterochka, through the window (it was morning), I saw an action: the employees, gathered in a circle, sang something. I decided that they congratulate someone ... Later I found out that they were singing ... the Pyaterochka anthem! wassat Such small pranks in NLP mode. Later, at work, he repeatedly came across administrative perversions of “directors of a new type” (one of them called himself that very modestly), and clearly decided for himself: where corporatism begins, my work ends there. But this is a special case. The same thing that Roman told about does vengeance requires the harsh intervention of serious people. Damn it, this infection has already made it ... And this (the established way of thinking) is not treated - just amputate and cauterize. Yes, my colleagues will forgive me a kind of bloodthirstiness, but somehow I need to deal with this evil spirits on the ground, especially at government facilities and state-owned enterprises. And closer than 100 km, do not let it in. Yes, they have bred “spectacular” (not to be confused with really effective ones) for years to come, the second generation, by inertia, is engaged in nonsense, trying to become those from whom the labor market is simply breaking, soon managers and Directors "by weight" will begin to offer. And after all, they don’t know how to get any more horseradish, and many show-offs will not allow them to “enter the field”. Here you have the finished layer of dissatisfied low-alcohol bulk ... No, definitely, cut off and cauterize! am
  6. +13
    27 March 2017 06: 22
    Reading about how GREAT engineers and scientists subsequently created the space program and industry, I involuntarily begin to compare with what is now known about the theft and incompetence of those who undertook to manage all this.
    The GIRD group for the theft in much smaller numbers was publicly punished through a court. It was then that they proved by their deeds * their professional suitability * for real affairs, and not just for their ability * to cut the budget *.
    Today, the space industry is very rich and * can * afford * to support and * effective * managers and curators and even inept assembly engineers. And for this there will be nothing, well, unless public censure in some media. AND EVERYTHING.
    Involuntarily, you will think about the fact that they would not have planted the QUEEN, and there wouldn’t be any * space *. They would remain experts in * budget * sawing and beautiful reports. The experience of the modern space industry, and not only it, shows that I am right.
  7. +19
    27 March 2017 06: 33
    At one time, I talked a lot with an intelligent person who worked for a long time in one of the departments of the city administration. We agreed that bureaucratic paper circulation, including all paper trash, is inevitable and everything that happens is essentially a vicious circle. The bureaucrat needs to show his work, after that the paper roll increases, all sorts of requests, instructions ... After some time, the bureaucrat ceases to cope with this shaft. And it requires an increase in staff. After a short period, a new full-time employee also needs to secure a front and show his need. He generates a thuja train of new thickets and errands ... And he requires an assistant for ...
    And the way out? The way out is to reduce them by at least a third, or better by half. And after a certain amount of time, the number of requests, resolutions, instructions, instructions will decrease ...
    And in this case, you need to cut it in a living way. Rogozin arrived at the enterprise, went through the administration and demanded a reduction in posts according to the existing staffing table.
    1. +17
      27 March 2017 08: 30
      Quote: ImPerts
      And in this case, you need to cut it in a living way. Rogozin arrived at the enterprise, went through the administration and demanded a reduction in posts according to the existing staffing table.

      And they will begin to cut back on the production workers, and
      one of those beauties of model appearance that Mr. Kamyshev dragged along with him. And each of which receives (according to employees) not 18-20 thousand engineering, but 4-5 times more.

      Will receive not 4-5 times, but 10 -15. request
      1. +3
        27 March 2017 09: 55
        I wrote
        Quote: ImPerts
        walked through the administration

        And proceeding from the superior written by me, the bureaucracy is born in the administration.
        The article shows that there is nowhere to reduce production. There, only buy-sell remains there, and the trade and procurement area without specialists will also quickly end ...
    2. +1
      27 March 2017 10: 27
      There is such a solution: we install electronic document management with a strong email. calc. capacities and connected systems on promising and thoughtful software. It turns out something like a specialist. internal logistic. Wednesday. Total:
      - and people (workshop and engineering) will not need to be reduced;
      - and the necessary office group will get the opportunity to report on the "paper" work and will not be completely overwhelmed with waste paper.
      Yes, these things are not well thought out and there will be a lot of papers in the initial period. But sooner or later it will be necessary to come to this phenomenon. How else do you imagine the future of workflow?
      You have to start sometime.
      1. +19
        27 March 2017 11: 12
        It will be the other way around. And computers will be bought and programmers (mostly painted girls who do not differ from A from B) will be recruited and department heads will be increased and deputies with zampos and a super-duper will be a 1000000 teraflop calculator. But, there will be three workers working on the accounts, and the rest of the headstock receive. Unfortunately, this has all passed since the 90s. Only the Stalinist bullet will exterminate Managers.
        1. 0
          28 March 2017 18: 06
          laughing
          A bullet, of course, is an effective thing ... for a manager.
          But it’s a pity that human material. A total of 143.5 million. 100 people. in newspapers it will turn into 100 billion. Then we have to again wash off the reputation, as the reputation of Comrade. Stalin today. It is necessary somehow by replacing, but with "those that are necessary."
      2. +4
        29 March 2017 09: 02
        No. With us, this introduced a shaft of securities increased in 3rd. We are expanding the states.
        Each electronic piece of paper requires physical. It turns out duplication and a bunch of reconciliations, which are reinforced by new pieces of paper. This system feeds itself with work. Only the elimination of the system itself. Cancel reporting and ratings. Hopelessness in general.
        1. 0
          31 March 2017 12: 44
          Straight vicious circle?
          Maybe you need to try in "sterile and isolated conditions", say (under the supervision of an enterprise) to crank out a "mini-project" with a minimum of waste paper and without special confirmation. Let the signatures be put in the electronic version (by proven algorithms). No matter how much the paper is praised, the waste paper for each nut is not the method of the future.
    3. +4
      27 March 2017 15: 23
      Quote: ImPerts
      At one time, I talked a lot with an intelligent person who worked for a long time in one of the city administration departments.

      If he, your interlocutor, is really smart, then he ... deceived you a little. Despicably shunned, as usual. The more bureaucrats have subordinates, the greater is his weight in bureaucratic games. Well, that’s what he doesn’t care about at all, and from the beginning, it’s his own efficiency.
      From "mistakes and omissions" it will easily heat up, and the more easily, the more subordinates it has. And your interlocutor probably launched the paper roll more and more, and used another thousand and one ways to inflate the state. It was not without reason that these ancestors called the nettle seed.
      Nettle, by the way, grows best where people left ... The power that wants to develop the country throws all its strength into limiting and controlling nettle seed. And the one who wants convenience in theft ...
      1. +1
        27 March 2017 16: 34
        Quote: Mikhail3
        And your interlocutor probably launched the paper roll more and more, and used another thousand and one ways to inflate the state.

        No, he did not use it. And he was just trying to do the opposite, with which he paid.
        1. 0
          28 March 2017 20: 24
          It happens. And yes, such a person flies out of office. Why is he IM?
  8. +22
    27 March 2017 06: 42
    Once again plunging into the problems of our space industry[b] [/ b]. Guys, this is not a problem at all, a state that, if it continues, will lead to the end of our space industry. If you let this happen, everything is VERY bad! Of course, I heard a lot about it, but I'm shocked. If everything is the same, we all have an unenviable end.
  9. +9
    27 March 2017 06: 57
    Well, by the way, how deliberately, for the sake of profit, industry is falling apart. Think about the slogan "Saving Production" invented by gray destroyers. Now in the warehouses of enterprises there are no backlogs, stocks. Everything is acquired and done strictly piece by piece. All components are made to order, there is nothing to buy from warehouses. And that means, if something happens, there are no reserves. Industry is getting up. In the past, there were reserves that allowed enterprises to work fully in difficult conditions for at least half a year ...
    1. +1
      29 March 2017 13: 41
      Correct - Lean manufacturing. It has its pros and cons, with proper use a very effective thing. We just simplified everything and sat in a puddle
  10. +25
    27 March 2017 07: 16
    I don’t even want to comment. So everywhere. If you start proving that “it won’t work like that”, you will become the worst enemy of the administration.
    If you start swinging rights, you will fly out.
    You go to court ...
    It is proved by many years of experience - the largest criminal organized community in Russia is the Russian court.
  11. +6
    27 March 2017 07: 30
    When I read the next stream of consciousness, then there is:
    1. Where were you in 1991? When people refused to abandon their country, their industry, their education, etc. in favor of sausage and two cars?
    2. What matters is not people, but technology.
    3. These are not your technologies and enterprises, but private ones. And their main task is to make a profit.
    4. What is the habit of counting someone else's salary? This is not your salary.
    1. +24
      27 March 2017 08: 56
      Oops ... Clearly as per points. BRAVO! Do we think so or sarcasm like that? Show cattle like that it yelled? It’s also possible to smuggle your heap of manure into points, but reluctance. We had the same exactly, in the same words he said, plus or minus. He flew off the cork, unmasked to the whole world. Yes, and everyone else’s salary is considered from time immemorial when you can’t buy your own. Good luck, our market.
      1. +1
        27 March 2017 09: 06
        I think so.
        I didn’t call anyone cattle.
        I do not consider someone else's salary. For she is not mine. And I can’t buy anything for it.
        When I worked at the university, I realized that I can earn more than a month of work as a teacher at a university over the weekend, I did not cry, did not write pens, but simply changed my job and after 3 months I began to earn 8-10 times more.
        And yes. Denial of realities will not help them live successfully.
        1. +14
          27 March 2017 09: 42
          ADmA_RUS - ... NONE of whom ... is written through "AND" .... the teacher is ours ..... I hope you write with errors due to nervous trembling in your hands, and not because of pathological illiteracy. It is good that you left the university ...... I hope not in agriculture ... otherwise it will never rise from its knees ...
          1. +2
            27 March 2017 10: 06
            ABOUT! The apilation for literacy was used. It’s familiar. Rational arguments are over.
            1. +11
              27 March 2017 10: 55
              APPEAL, you are our teacher. And I’m silent about commas
              1. 0
                27 March 2017 11: 42
                As children ...
                In essence?
              2. +5
                27 March 2017 17: 13
                55578587
                “APPEAL, you are our teacher. And I am silent about commas”


                Yes, he is just the daughter of an officer smile What do you bring her up? Do not work for American universities. Especially for free.
            2. +9
              27 March 2017 11: 39
              Quote: ADmA_RUS
              It’s familiar. Rational arguments are over.

              You think correctly = correctly state // Do not think correctly = illiterate.
              It was not for nothing that V.S. Vysotsky sang in the song "About the Relocation of Souls":
              "But if stupid, like a tree, you’ll be born a baobab
              And you'll be a baobab for a thousand years while you die. "
            3. +3
              27 March 2017 22: 03
              Quote: ADmA_RUS
              The apilation for literacy was used.

              Only no offense, it is so accepted in VO, and rightly so, these REALITIES are not denied. hi It is not enough just to express an idea; it is desirable to express it in a coherent and competent manner.
        2. +5
          27 March 2017 12: 46
          Quote: ADmA_RUS
          I can earn more than a month on a hack

          Space industry venture and quickie on weekends ... what What are the parallels? Somewhere elderberry and somewhere uncle ...
        3. +4
          27 March 2017 21: 17
          Quote: ADmA_RUS
          When working at the university, I realized that I can earn more than a month of work as a teacher at a university over the weekend, I did not cry, I did not write a scribble,

          And on the advice of Dmitry Anatolyevich went into business ...
          and colleagues at the university also rushed to hack work or, like losers, still teach.? Why the hell are we all univers, all sorts of CBHA? We cross over universities on hack!
          PS About what hack, do not share?
        4. +1
          29 March 2017 23: 56
          here, here you are, like D.A. argue, do not like working as a teacher, go to business
          Quote: ADmA_RUS
          I think so.

          When I worked at the university, I realized that I can earn more than a month of work as a teacher at a university over the weekend, I did not cry, did not write pens, but simply changed my job and after 3 months I began to earn 8-10 times more.
          And yes. Denial of realities will not help them live successfully.
    2. +17
      27 March 2017 11: 25
      Reply.
      1. The people plowed at enterprises and on collective farms, because there was nothing to eat, but they didn’t give for it. And the gang of Moscow and St. Petersburg crooks did and does make all revolutions. As they say in voting, and just like in the latter, they always win who has a ballot count in their hands.
      2. Technologies are invented by people, without them there is no technology, you are our scientist.
      3. Granted for money and for a penny of production and all spheres of activity from the hands of the state to the hands of a punks close to the body is theft and treason with the appropriate punishment (but there will be no review and we are not 37 years old, you know ... said the guarantor).
      4. Nobody considers someone else’s SALARY. But someone else’s rip-off and thieves ’incomes should not only be counted, but also shot for them.
      1. 0
        27 March 2017 11: 49
        Comfortably settled down. All around people are not of a traditional orientation, I myself am a Dartanyan.
        In October, before the coup in Ukraine. I told my friends from there. Do not follow the asshole exactly, otherwise it will be a coup in March.
        They told me that when they don’t, they need to work. And if necessary! Miners and hard workers will rise and quickly estimate maydaunov.
        I was wrong.
        Everyone knows the result.
    3. +10
      27 March 2017 11: 37
      Quote: ADmA_RUS
      1. Where were you in 1991?

      If a person made a mistake, this does not mean at all that it is not necessary to correct it.

      Quote: ADmA_RUS
      2. What matters is not people, but technology.

      Technologies without qualified specialists with the necessary experience are just paper or an electronic file with obscure words for the uninitiated.

      Quote: ADmA_RUS
      These are not your technologies and enterprises, but private ones. And their main task is to make a profit

      These are state-owned enterprises, financed from the budget, their main task is the implementation of technical specifications.

      Quote: ADmA_RUS
      What is the habit of counting someone else's salary? This is not your salary.

      Normal Soviet habit. It immediately shows where qualified specialists are needed and where they are not needed.
      1. 0
        27 March 2017 14: 31
        It doesn’t matter who the shareholder is. The form of ownership is important. AO has one goal - profit.
        And I do not consider the calculation of someone else's salary the norm. For example, I don’t know how much my boss gets. This is his salary. Not mine.
        1. +3
          27 March 2017 19: 22
          Quote: ADmA_RUS
          Not mine.

          If your boss redistributes half your salary to your secretary, will you be silent too, or will you just leave? So they leave.
        2. +2
          27 March 2017 23: 03
          Quote: ADmA_RUS
          It doesn’t matter who the shareholder is. The form of ownership is important. AO has one goal - profit.

          You simplify. First, it is important who the shareholder is. Secondly, profit does not eliminate compliance with laws, including qualification and length of service requirements, job descriptions, guests, etc., as well as contractual obligations - profit by profit, and ensure quality.

          Quote: ADmA_RUS
          And I do not consider the calculation of someone else's salary the norm. For example, I don’t know how much my boss gets. This is his salary. Not mine.

          But I know the level of pay for the posts, the internal "tariff schedule", so to speak. One must know whether the appointment to this or that post is worth the nerves and efforts expended.
          But the article generally raised an important topic - the remuneration of specialists in the main production and the wage shift in favor of management, which is not entirely justified, to put it mildly. This should be discussed.
    4. +3
      27 March 2017 23: 14
      What matters is not people, but technology.

      Here is an example of an economic approach. In principle, he did not hear anything about staff training. She didn’t even stand nearby. For him, people are a resource, such as water or money.
  12. +6
    27 March 2017 07: 33
    To sit down and do what you love, “effective management,” does the government arrange “unauthorized” processions in Moscow? Keep it up!
  13. +9
    27 March 2017 07: 35
    Hey upstairs! why are you fucking chtoli there?
    1. +6
      27 March 2017 12: 50
      All according to plan.
    2. +3
      27 March 2017 19: 22
      ask or listen to the main Bear (hell) and you will understand everything
  14. +10
    27 March 2017 07: 37
    Rogozin, preparing trampolines.
  15. +11
    27 March 2017 07: 49
    And in another article where it was told about how people came out against corruption, the same forum users offered to put everyone down and shoot
    1. +15
      27 March 2017 08: 40
      Quote: Kenneth
      in another article where it was told about how people came out against corruption, the same forum users suggested everyone to be planted and shot

      My dear man, do not distort the facts, firstly, secondly, not anal and companies of any gozman and teddy bear 2% lead people, and thirdly, let's not record all members of the forum as "enemies" of the people. hi
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +3
        27 March 2017 09: 17
        And let's think about why we are sitting here and banging like it is not the way we want. Liberal bastards are dominated by thieves and all that. Again, effective managers. We sit in the bay and that's it.
  16. +22
    27 March 2017 07: 49
    In my city, the defective managers at the timber processing complex were super efficiently managed by a sickly plant that the hot FINNISH GUYS had built in due time - this winter they managed to unfreeze the water supply system inside the workshops (PSU), then they all flooded well, and as an apotheosis - it was completely frozen in the ice. END OF A PLANT FOR THE PRODUCTION OF QUALITY CHIPBOARD. Why do I drive on creature-managers ... IT IS THEY ARE directly related to the liquidation of both the enterprises themselves, and to the survival of highly skilled specialists who know how to SERVE THESE enterprises, and not saw them. In general, all this pack is, in my understanding, BLACK REALTORS, who like to steal, crap and ruin anything else are not capable of anything (with very rare exceptions). I directly participated in the adjustment of production lines during their installation and the initial launches of the entire infrastructure of this plant, delivered by turnkey dates. Do you think that for ruining a sickly enterprise someone of them was taken by the competent authorities ??? Run and fall with zeal.
  17. +17
    27 March 2017 08: 01
    Another confirmation of the deceit and duplicity of our authorities. We have enough evidence and evidence. We have already believed, thoroughly convinced and know for sure THAT we have entrenched in the power structures!
  18. FID
    +19
    27 March 2017 08: 04
    And this is not only in space .... Simple aviation, forgive me, someone "avis" who considers himself to be "the truth in the last person" .... Several, I emphasize, SEVERAL, planes a year ... FOR GREAT AVIATION POWER ... What's this?
    1. +8
      27 March 2017 12: 55
      This is our reality.
  19. +15
    27 March 2017 08: 44
    the documents that I have cited here as evidence can cause both surprise and distrust. Well, there can be no such outright idiocy.

    Why idiocy? Typical American documents for companies developed 30 years ago. Well, a few words have been added / changed to show that this is a "custom" development. I translated such packs at the beginning of the “independence” for new companies. The idiocy is that someone allows you to accept such documents, instead of demanding a report on the work and talking with employees, and an audit.
    1. +1
      27 March 2017 10: 29
      Corporate propaganda is usually 100 times thinner and better than this scribble that has the opposite effect.
  20. +15
    27 March 2017 08: 49
    The war is on the verge, and here. In general, the result of that war will be as in the 17th, and not in the 45th. While the government is stealing and serving the West in the market, and the “patriots” are reproaching and praying for nicholas, there is no need to wait for another result.
  21. +16
    27 March 2017 09: 12
    Quote: ADmA_RUS
    When I read the next stream of consciousness, then there is:
    1. Where were you in 1991? When people refused to abandon their country, their industry, their education, etc. in favor of sausage and two cars?
    2. What matters is not people, but technology.
    3. These are not your technologies and enterprises, but private ones. And their main task is to make a profit.
    4. What is the habit of counting someone else's salary? This is not your salary.

    1. In 1991, I personally served in the Armed Forces and I believe that the army to defend the state, all sorts of left and right movements are not for her. And to blame where you were not necessary. The basis of the "protesters" was in Moscow, as now. And here Where were you? In the square?
    2. Nuuu are not people, but technologies .... probably the seller themselves is a consultant or a hardworking journalist, an empty bully. People who own technology are yes. And your statement is, I’m complete.
    3. These are not our technologies ...., of course, they are yours, and the Russian land on which you live can also be ours? Yes, all technologies come from the people's USSR and enterprises stolen during the privatization too! We still use it!
    4. They don’t consider someone else’s salary, it’s true. But when a girl who doesn’t know where the pasta comes from, she teaches a worker or engineer just because she turned out to be his boss by the will of fate, at least it’s not right, and her salary should not exceed at times the salary of the worker.
    1. +2
      27 March 2017 10: 16
      1. Who gave the oath? As a citizen who was supposed to think and act?
      2. Technology is not individuals. Technology is the whole system. And the ode should not depend on individuals.
      3. All that could be sold, already sold. Vouchers remember? These pieces of paper were your piece of the motherland.
      4. As they say in the USA, if you are so smart why so poor? Do not like the girl boss - look for another job.
      1. +1
        27 March 2017 10: 30
        1. Carefully read the text of the oath of the USSR.
        The rest is true
        1. 0
          27 March 2017 11: 54
          and until the last breath to be devoted to his people, his Soviet homeland
          1. +1
            27 March 2017 12: 22
            It says something like I undertake, by order of the Soviet government, to come forward to defend myself, and so on. Personally, I do not remember the order of this government. And without an order, this is a riot.
            1. +1
              27 March 2017 14: 34
              So everyone decides for himself.
              The first part or the second is important to him.
              The USSR did not arise at the entrance of a peaceful demonstration, but after riots, uprisings and civil war.
              1. +3
                27 March 2017 14: 43
                This is important for balabol who pulled up a reference to the oath that they not only did not take but did not even read.
                1. 0
                  27 March 2017 16: 46
                  Passed on to the person, it became easier?
                  I understand you, I myself would be upset to tears if I were bred just like a sucker.
                  And he tried to come up with excuses for himself. "Swindlers in Moscow, had to work, etc .."
                  The current situation can only be changed by repeating the events of 1905, 1917 and 1937. Such is the pattern and logic of history. The change in the economic formation occurs only after the revolution, civil war and the Great Purge. So it was with us, it was so in France.
                  1. 0
                    27 March 2017 17: 15
                    There are not a lot of beech thoughts
                    The USSR ended. And not because someone is to blame.
                    1. 0
                      28 March 2017 07: 21
                      What I was talking about.
                      So psychologically easier.
                      1. +2
                        28 March 2017 10: 57
                        Quote: ADmA_RUS
                        So psychologically easier.

                        only foolish people think that everything is decided by the people.
                        the people of any country decide nothing.
                        the choice between human waste and feces is not a choice.
                        revolution is not done by the people.
                    2. +2
                      28 March 2017 10: 54
                      Quote: Kenneth
                      The USSR ended. And not because someone is to blame

                      Each accident has a first and last name.
                      collapse of the USSR - Gorbachev.
                      for those who are near, each ruler has an OWN command.
            2. +2
              27 March 2017 17: 40
              Quote: Kenneth
              Personally, I do not remember the order of this government. And without an order, this is a riot.

              Do not worry anyway, you will not pass: "universal hatred and contempt of the working people."
              1. 0
                27 March 2017 22: 54
                Vika, I’ll get drunk when you finally say something reasonable and to the point.
                1. 0
                  28 March 2017 06: 00
                  Quote: Kenneth
                  Vika, I’ll get drunk when you finally say something reasonable and to the point.

                  Excessive consumption of ethylene as an additive in dihydrogen monoxide will not benefit your health! am You can start the process, but I warned you! lol
      2. +4
        27 March 2017 10: 33
        1. If he didn’t take the oath himself, he didn’t give too much balabol. About internal strife there is no word.
        2. About technology, ask teachers at school. Before that, find out what a system is (definition at least).
        3.And what have vouchers for? Didn't you have enough?
        4. As they say in the United States, I don’t know, you know better! And what about the girl?
        1. +7
          27 March 2017 11: 58
          ADmA_RUS - forgive me for my terrible French, but you, our esteemed one, most likely went to a little coward in 1991 and therefore it’s so easy to judge the events of those days. Well, what about your hypothetical service in the armed forces and talking about the oath, I hardly think ... with thoughts like yours they usually don’t survive there ... however, like those from the team of effective managers ...
  22. +8
    27 March 2017 09: 26
    What a mess this is! They simply destroy both the enterprise and the people!
    But is it impossible to somehow Rogozin personally forward this article as a letter?
    It seems to be from the press all the funds for the defense industry ... Well, how so?
    1. +2
      27 March 2017 09: 52
      And besides Rogozin, to the relevant committee of the State Duma, the State Enterprise, the KSP and the Presidential Administration. A fan. That would start on the ground.
    2. +9
      27 March 2017 13: 02
      What Ragozin what letter from what reality are you ...
    3. +8
      27 March 2017 14: 46
      But they don’t know the type. Rogozin from the same effective cohort. And if he is not aware of the state entrusted to him the industry then all the more to drive.
      1. +1
        28 March 2017 11: 05
        rights
        your words need to be hung out in a prominent place so that everyone can read.
  23. +14
    27 March 2017 09: 31
    Quote: Cat Man Null
    - maybe not "return", but "create production within the country"? Duc deal with this, although not quickly ...

    ------------------------------
    I saw how they do it. Two years without work sat, visited the cities of Chelyabinsk, Nizhny Novgorod, Yekaterinburg. It seems like industrial cities, but there is no work. They take a modern enterprise according to discriminatory criteria, the age of 40 years is immediately cut off. The salary of the manager is 100 thousand, the salary of the engineer is 30-50, not more, while they are looking for a specialist in controllers and automation, and only companies from Siemens. They can’t find it and all technical services are breaking the road how to start the fucking Stan-5000 (behind the scenes they whisper that “it was built with the money of Putin himself”).
    The plant in Nizhny Novgorod for the production of S-400 is the same picture.
    --------------------------
    I copy my post from another discussion. But Rogozin is more PR, and built his son in the heat.
  24. +5
    27 March 2017 09: 39
    Quote: SSI
    Simple aviation, forgive me, someone "avis" who considers himself to be "truth in the last person" ....

    --------------------------
    Avis is a stupid troll that prefers insults instead of arguments. And in general, a strange nickname, it was the name of Indian jeans in the 1980s, stitched with white thread, although it is translated from Latin as “bird”.
    1. FID
      +3
      27 March 2017 11: 42
      Thanks for the comment ... I will know!
  25. +15
    27 March 2017 09: 55
    The system of so-called "effective managers" starts from the very top. Is not Medvedev an "effective manager" with his delirium, but Nabibulin, and the former Minister of Defense Serdyukov, etc.? Wherever you stick in our government and in the leadership of state corporations - everywhere there is "effective management", which is put there only for personal enrichment and withdrawal of money and assets through offshore abroad. Accordingly, in the middle link the same picture
  26. +11
    27 March 2017 09: 59
    Somehow everyone forgets a few points that immediately put everything in its place.
    The first is outside the window of capitalism in a capitalist state.
    The second one. Marx also discovered the absolute law of capitalism, i.e. He established the fact of an objective stable repetitive connection between the production of surplus value by an employee and its free appropriation by an entrepreneur, that the entrepreneur has no other motive than the appropriation of surplus value created by the labor of an employee.
    Accordingly, the state serves the interests of the capitalists, since it is capitalist.
    What other questions might there be?
    1. +2
      28 March 2017 11: 16
      everything is right for capitalism.
      but the state can limit the greed of the capitalists.
      here ours for some reason does not want.
      1. +2
        28 March 2017 12: 29
        In the space of the former USSR, capitalists are the state. How will they limit themselves? Here again, everything is classic.
        Oligarchy (other Greek ὀλῐγ-αρχία - the power of a few; from other Greek. Ὀλίγος - small, small + ἀρχή - the beginning, power) - a political regime in which power is concentrated in the hands of a relatively small group of citizens (for example, representatives large monopolized capital) and rather serves their personal and group interests, rather than the interests of all citizens. Oligarchs - members of the oligarchy, can either be members of the government themselves, or have a decisive influence on its formation and decision-making in their personal and group interests.
  27. +9
    27 March 2017 10: 12
    The scary thing is that there are such insignificances in the director's chairs. The terrible thing is that they thrive there as if it should be so and there is no government for them! No one will drive him out, no one will ask for the severity of the law for the destruction of the enterprise. For 20 years, speaking from the stands, people of this kind have begun their speech with the words “Great work has been done” ... - one generation has already left such speakers, another has replaced them. They are unshakable. They will squeeze us all and fire us.
    Lord, it’s good that I’m not forever! But my children - how? How do they live?
    1. 0
      29 March 2017 08: 36
      Quote: Galleon
      How do they live?

      In view of today's realities, if you want to transfer the gene to a new generation:
      a) become the same and save a place for the offspring, no matter how mediocre he may have grown;
      b) reject such corruption and try to reach that level and work honestly. But they will throw him off. Since at this level it is necessary to share and / or constantly bite. Heart attacks with strokes will not allow to live to 50.
      c) it’s important not to go to such a post, but to work for an uncle. And what an uncle is: how God will send.
  28. 0
    27 March 2017 10: 15
    The situation with managers, of course, is a dead end.
    But, in your opinion, HOW to choose an intelligent manager,
    - who is able to understand the worker: in matters of updating working equipment, remuneration; labor safety;
    - who knows what is and why secrecy is introduced;
    - who understands the importance of the object and puts it above the flock of females or their attached friends;
    - other ..
    1. +4
      27 March 2017 11: 54
      Quote: Lycan
      The situation with managers, of course, is a dead end.
      But, in your opinion, HOW to choose an intelligent manager ...

      How to choose a manager? First of all, it is necessary that the one who chooses (?) Or appoints, himself had an idea of ​​the production for which he selects personnel ... The personnel selection system is destroyed. At the top of the pyramid stood not those who know how to do better, but those who know how to live better and do nothing. And everyone has families ... and friend-comrades ...
      Only a return to worker control through unions independent from the employer can make a difference. It is always difficult to shout against the collective, as against the wind ... Unfortunately, at present, all production teams are diluted with "members" and "circles" of the collective, who fulfill one duty: not to offend the leadership. For that they receive either greenhouse working conditions or increased salaries ...
      1. 0
        27 March 2017 22: 55
        We never had independent unions
      2. 0
        29 March 2017 08: 53
        Quote: yuriy55
        employer-independent unions

        Such a responsible organization .. and independent? Who will allow her?
        You can somehow very conditionally trust her if:
        1) she has plus or minus wide information about her delivered frames (and this is not only a CV);
        2) this organization is subordinate to the state and protected by it. It is protected in the 10th turn from squandering the client base and for the purposes of the priority proposal (namely the proposal. The dictatorship will be superfluous) of personnel on the state enterprises and secondly - to private ones.
    2. +1
      28 March 2017 12: 22
      About 8 years ago, an intelligent director was sent to us, who began to pay the debts of the enterprise, to reduce the plant management, which was overblown. He lasted 2 months - they squeezed out, and sent to his place the collective farmer, who in the life of a chem. I didn’t manage production. And that plant drove into a full ass.
      1. 0
        29 March 2017 08: 55
        Interesting, and who managed to squeeze out?
        Maybe here it is possible to refine this moment? It is only necessary to approach systemically. Such people must be supported!
  29. +1
    27 March 2017 10: 28
    Rogozin alone cannot replace the system in which such enterprises functioned normally. It's a shame, annoying! But how many enterprises have not been around for a long time, the question is, how has Khimavtomatika been preserved? The truth of life: in order to profit from someone, one must take it from someone.
  30. +13
    27 March 2017 10: 46
    As they say: “What” sits in our country's leadership, the same thing will sit in enterprises. "Dubolom" can give birth only to "Dubolom"
  31. +9
    27 March 2017 10: 47
    And there’s nothing to add - this is the case all over the country and in almost all sectors
  32. +9
    27 March 2017 11: 02
    Problems of our legislation. Management is not responsible for the entrusted enterprise. What will happen to Mr. Kamyshev if the KBHA completely falls apart? Never mind! He will find another, warm place and will continue his "effective" activity!
  33. +3
    27 March 2017 11: 03
    Quote: Lycan
    But, in your opinion, HOW to choose an intelligent manager

    ---------------------------------------
    Under the feudal system as it is now in any way. Therefore, the criterion is now one - proximity to the body.
  34. +4
    27 March 2017 11: 04
    Quote: Galleon
    For 20 years, speaking from the stands, people of this sort have begun their speech with the words “Great work has been done” ... - such speakers have already left one generation, another has replaced them. They are unshakable.

    ---------------------------------
    Why 20? All 60 years. Leaders ceased to be responsible for the result of their work and turned into social dependents.
    1. +5
      27 March 2017 20: 33
      Let me disagree with you. There were party commissions, there were higher authorities, where for such tricks they could even turn the fur inside. No cretins were kept at such places - for such an oversight, the first secretary could fly plywood over Yakutsk.
    2. +2
      28 March 2017 11: 24
      in the USSR, the director could not oust the employee or draw any salary for himself.
      directors (managers) were constantly monitored by higher authorities. so he wanted or did not want to, but he was forced and constantly taught to work.
      Complaints from below and especially the whole team could easily throw the director out of his chair.
  35. +7
    27 March 2017 11: 26
    Cretinism at the beginning of the 90s. In the 95th I came across at the factory where I worked with a course of lectures by the Italian "managerial specialists" invited by the Directorate for Currency. The meaning of the Mayakovsky lecture is "you need to do good and do not need bad" and as the main "revelation" network production schedules (introduced in industry in the 70s). Now this factory is destroyed. Metallurgical Plant.
  36. +4
    27 March 2017 11: 41
    It is necessary to send and lay out such things more often and from different places on public display, so that everyone is left in the “subcortex” of how he lives, what he does and who he feeds ...
  37. +3
    27 March 2017 12: 02
    Unfortunately, our misfortune is that we are more promoted by personal devotion to leaders. And therefore, now the dominance of highly motivated lay people, often with economic and legal diplomas in the leadership.
  38. +11
    27 March 2017 12: 15
    Quote: Igor V
    Rogozin alone cannot replace the system

    Was he going to change her? If my memory serves me right, I wanted to cleanse Moscow of the "come in large numbers" and did not want to live on Kadyrov Street ... belay Did he say anything about your homeland? What did you want to change?
    The system does not take in random people, especially to such high positions. You think, I suppose, walked along Dima Street: Medvedev and Rogozin wassat tongue and suddenly stop you urgent appointment up ... belay
    Nobody is fighting anything there, and all the tales about the sweet life in the future are the oil that is poured to slide to the top faster, and it would be difficult to grab ...
    What are the results of the struggle? Just put these facts in my face ... And I’ll tell you so, when in 1943 the Red Army drove the Nazis in such a way that it became visible to the naked eye, no one began to impose sanctions against Stalin, his entourage and defense enterprises belay On the contrary, they began to consult and decide how to become involved in the Victory ... And in the war years, in hunger, cold and poverty, our industry built at such a pace, gave military products in such quantities ... And now fellow For fifteen years, released more than a hundred aircraft ...
    We lost the vector, went off the road, which leads to the most ordinary everyday happiness ... Our brothers were fooled and intimidated, killed in peacetime relatively for us, and we ...
    Oh! Oh my God! What will the Princess Marya Aleksevna say?
    1. +2
      27 March 2017 21: 35
      You would quote in full, then the meaning would not be lost! This meant a system in which similar research institutes and design bureaus functioned. Now this system is gone. And how much Ragozin do not pour mud, he will not be able to create conditions for everyone under which the above organizations will work normally.
      1. +1
        28 March 2017 11: 30
        nice man and what prevents Rogozin from creating (restoring) a really effective system.
        is he not the master of his place? he has no leverage on downline?
        maybe everything is much simpler? he does not need it. no profit.
        1. +1
          28 March 2017 20: 32
          You are swimming shallowly, a village, social system, one person is not able to create, even the chairman of the military-industrial complex. But what he could - did. I'm talking about state corporations.
      2. +1
        28 March 2017 11: 33
        Igor V
        in our history there was such a leader, Gorbachev.
        He spoke so beautifully that everyone was sure that everything was fine with us and now it’s just a transitional time period.
        listening to Rogozin, I hear Gorbachev.
  39. +3
    27 March 2017 12: 32
    Everywhere so, not only in the defense industry, but also in any more or less large organization. We grabbed new values ​​without hesitation and are waiting for them with cartilage, because the only goal is money now (well, self-listing of bonuses). We would like to take capitalist values ​​deliberately, we would adopt from Porsche, for example: according to the results of which, tens of thousands of employees are paid bonuses of the order of 9000 euros, because of which, we all earned effective work together.
    1. +1
      28 March 2017 12: 05
      it's not as easy as you think.
      all developed countries of the world raised their free money from the robbed colonies and the further robbery of these "colonies" by more advanced technologies created at the expense of the same robberies.
      1. +1
        28 March 2017 12: 33
        Did I write that everything is simple? The point is not how the initial capital was accumulated, but that mindlessly adopting values ​​is a monkey. Here in modern Russia, too, capital was raised on gullible people and vouchers, this period passed that they had in the colonial era, that we had in the era of privatization, only they created some kind of system, but we didn’t. We are trying to copy, we even learned the corporate word, and everyone does not cook a bowler hat of general happiness. I’ll even say more that we have had experience in the scientific organization of labor since 1920 (who does not know the term rationalization proposal?), But it has been safely forgotten. But it is not forgotten in Japan, and now we are just as thoughtlessly trying to copy lean manufacturing and kaizen.
    2. +1
      28 March 2017 12: 06
      by type of sale to the Papuans of plastic beads in exchange for gold.
  40. +7
    27 March 2017 12: 39
    He worked at the SIBURA enterprise in N. Novgorod, read the list of “values” and was not surprised at anything. We passed this in 2013-14. When effective managers came to the PETROCHEMICAL production ... well, it started !!! Sikuha-daughters began to manage production, drove out specialists. It was something. !!!!
  41. +2
    27 March 2017 13: 02
    Roman Skomorokhov continues to bend the line of 80-year-old pensioner thieves, such as Skachilov, Koroteev, who have already scribbled the entire Internet with libel about KBHA, only it seems to me that his sources are with the same soul as these same Skachilov and Koroteev. Just look here: [media = http: //novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/forum
    13 / topic9750 /? PAGEN_1 = 31] to make sure: those who shouted the most in the industry in the past years shout most of all. Here is a direct speech from one of the most respected people of the KB, who directly says that they are thieves. And the current leadership ... Well, yes, you can copy-paste any orders, but just do not say that Kamyshev returned the cryogen that had been stolen in previous years back to the KBHA? Read here: [media = http: //www.kommersant.ru/doc/3214370? Utm_s
    ource = kommersant & utm_medium = strana & utm_campaign = f
    our] Or do you, Roman Skomorokhov, find this truth uncomfortable? If only to cover thieves.
    1. +2
      28 March 2017 12: 09
      this does not negate "effective" management with girls in their offices at huge salaries.
  42. 0
    27 March 2017 13: 15
    A common thing: they tightened their tail to 80-year-old pensioners who can only sit out their pants. On the same main site of the KBHA, 35–40-year-olds are appointed department heads. But the old people don’t like it: they need to give them a pension and a bigger salary. Yes, because of them, the whole 2000s was so common among young people that promising people did not stay longer than two years: what is the point of sitting in one post all my life ... And now the old people began to move the warm-hearted armchairs: and a moan rushed over Mother Russia - destroy, destroy ...
    1. +2
      27 March 2017 14: 36
      Is the new administration slandering? Well, at least one was found.
      Thieving oldies are available. But new ... Both are worse. (with)
      "promising for more than two years did not linger" - now the situation has changed?
    2. +4
      27 March 2017 19: 38
      Quote: azhuravlev
      promising for more than two years did not stop: what is the point of a lifetime to sit in one position.

      And what are promising for you, besides sitting on positions, what else are they doing?
    3. +2
      28 March 2017 12: 13
      when enterprises close after such MANAGERS, then not only 80-year-olds go on vacation
  43. +2
    27 March 2017 13: 43
    After the publication of this order, it is necessary to write to the management again, but not in the form of non-binding rhetorical questions, but with direct requests for execution and the management of the order also signed by him.

    Statement

    In connection with the adoption of Order No. 158 from 20.03.2017, the collective of the KBHA test complex promptly warns management about the risks associated with poor working conditions and staff shortages at the test complex, and asks the management of KBHA JSC:
    - take feedback on the results of its activities;
    - analyze the risks associated with poor working conditions and staff shortages in the test complex;
    - find ways to prevent these risks and correct the negative results of their activities;
    - respond to requests from subordinates, provide support and timely assistance;
    - exclude lies, intrigues, manipulations;
    - create a supportive environment for solving problems;
    - Prioritize a common goal over personal interests;
    - indexation of wages of employees of the test complex in accordance with the requirement of Art. 134 of the Labor Code of the Russian Federation;
    - to establish an increased salary for the workers of the test complex participating in the preparation and conduct of fire tests, post-launch work with classified items in accordance with the requirement of "such and such an article of such and such a normative act";
    - establish an increased salary for employees of the test complex engaged in work with harmful and hazardous working conditions, for which the previous working conditions were confirmed by a special assessment of working conditions, in accordance with the requirement of clause 3 Art. 15 Federal Law No. 421 of 28.12.2013;
    - consider the possibility of increasing the wages of highly skilled workers in the main production to the level established by the industry tariff agreement (at least 35 232 rubles);
    - take into account in the loading units all the work, and not in terms of testing only serial products.

    We also remind that when considering this application, you must be guided by order No. 158 of 20.03.2017, namely:
    - set ambitious goals;
    - make a decision in a timely manner;
    - eliminate the transfer of responsibility to other people and external circumstances.

    The team of the test complex expects to meet the stated requests, since, in general, the satisfaction of this statement by the management of KBKhA JSC forms a vision of a positive and constructive future and team result, supports the initiative of colleagues in the team, increases the personal efficiency of managers, exceeds the expectations of internal customers represented by the team of the test center. allows you to fulfill your obligations under the employment contract <or something like that>, to show managers initiative and leadership, to participate in team work.

    Our joint performance is the main value of our team.

    Workers of the test complex JSC KBHA

    Applications:
    1) Analysis of the current position of the test complex as a result of the activities of the management of JSC KBHA.
    2) Signatures of employees of the testing complex of JSC KBHA.
    3) A copy of the appeal of the employees of IC JSC KBHA to the management of JSC KBHA from 15.03.2017
    4) A copy of the appeal of the employees of IC JSC KBHA to the management of JSC KBHA from 2015
    5) A copy of the application to the State Labor Inspectorate in the Voronezh region.

    The enemy needs to be beaten with his own weapon. You look, he will cease to be the enemy, as it should be (the boss should not be the enemy). Eh, you have to learn everything wassat
  44. 0
    27 March 2017 13: 44
    Su .., that's how we ask for everything! It's a shame for the power! The child graduates from the institute, and apparently will go to work behind the counter. It's a shame, smart girl after all!
  45. 0
    27 March 2017 13: 45
    Is it difficult to find the address of Mr. Rogozin’s reception? What should I send marked "personally, confidentially, do not open"?
    1. +1
      27 March 2017 14: 37
      Fearfully. This is a personal responsibility. Let someone else do it.
  46. +5
    27 March 2017 16: 05
    Well, what do you want - when the philologist Rogozin leads such a direction?
    What a philologist is - such is the result.
  47. 0
    27 March 2017 16: 06
    A thief on a thief and a saboteur drives.
    Putin is an agent of the State Department.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +1
      28 March 2017 12: 22
      Quote: Rollback
      Putin is an agent of the State Department

      Well, that’s said aloud.
      dreams of becoming an agent. or rather dreams of becoming equal to the American oligarchs
      But ktozh will give him that. there are few places but those who want a lot and take up places are not going to leave.
  48. +7
    27 March 2017 16: 54
    As long as our country is driven by effective menagers like Rogozin’s windbag, about direct idiots and enemies, not to mention, the country will slide into the abyss of nothingness under the boastful cries of liberal rulers.
  49. +4
    27 March 2017 17: 03
    Quote: parafoiler
    And so in almost all defense industry enterprises.

    Not only in the defense industry. Our company belonged to the food industry. The arrived team of “defectives” over the year increased production.
  50. +2
    27 March 2017 18: 19
    "Everything is in Russian: there is no money, but there is effective management"

    We are on the site of the WAR review, and not the society of anonymous alcoholics.
    That is why, before recalling Rogozin with his patriotic speeches, it was necessary to recall Allen Dulles with his directive regarding the future of the USSR-Russia from 1945.
    For 70 years, one could memorize his doctrine by heart and learn how to clearly distinguish between wolves in sheep's clothing and shoot.

    “The Second World War will end. Somehow everything will settle down, settle down. And we will give up everything that we have, all gold, all material power to fool Russian people. Having sowed chaos there, we quietly replace their values ​​with false ones and make them believe in these values.

    We will find our like-minded people, our assistants and allies in Russia itself. Episode by episode will be played out the grand tragedy of the death of the most rebellious people on earth, the final extinction of his identity.

    From literature and art we will gradually erase their social essence, wean artists, we discourage them from engaging in image, the study of those processes that occur in the depths of the masses.

    Literature, theater, cinema - everything will depict and glorify the most base human feelings. We will do our best to support and raise the so-called artists who will instill and hammer into the consciousness the cult of sex, violence, sadism, betrayal - in a word, all immorality.

    In government, we will create chaos, confusion. We will quietly, but actively and constantly contribute to the tyranny of officials, bribe takers, and unscrupulousness. Honesty and decency will be ridiculed and will not be needed by anyone, will turn into a relic of the past.

    Rudeness and arrogance, lies and deceit, drunkenness and drug addiction, animal fear: and the hostility of peoples, above all, hostility and hatred of the Russian people - all this we will cleverly and inconspicuously cultivate.

    And only a few, very few will guess or understand what is happening. But we will put such people in a helpless position, turn them into a laughing stock, find a way to slander them and declare them to be the scum of society ...

    In this way we will shake generation after generation ... We will fight for people from childhood, youth, we will always make the main bet on young people, we will begin to corrupt, corrupt, and corrupt it. We will make cosmopolitans of them. ”



    We see at the root of our limitation and inability to see forests beyond the trees, namely, that for the most part managers, if not physically, then spiritually not ours, but foreign ones. Money is power for a long time, and it is in the clutches of a pro-Western aligarhat and the people can’t see it .. like its ears. Accordingly, since 1991, everything is no longer in Russian, who did not understand, read the Dulles doctrine.
    "Everything is not in Russian: the Russian people do not have money-power, but there is an effective foreign management"
    Of course, Putin, Rogozin, Kamyshev are to blame, the people are not to blame. We were deceived ... Now - this is in Russian.
    1. +2
      27 March 2017 18: 39
      Quote: cedar
      Seeing at the root of our limitation and inability to see forests behind trees

      So do not look into the roots and maybe then you can see the forest behind the trees?
      Quote: cedar
      We were deceived ...

      Just stop being idiots? ! And it turns out like in the fairy tale "about the tips and roots."
  51. +4
    27 March 2017 19: 01
    Similar to the situation years earlier in Constellation. Now the employees there talk like in a fairy tale, the further it goes the worse it gets. and the “effective” Bekiev has already greased his skis, done the “deed” and went home to Moscow. ESU TK has not existed since 2005.
  52. 0
    27 March 2017 20: 32
    "Women's dog" - "Chinese supreme" - and for the lead the family pays
  53. +1
    27 March 2017 20: 43
    The situation is almost identical with NPO Energomash. Managers and bosses are ruining the enterprise.
    1. +1
      28 March 2017 14: 33
      Then it's even worse. KBKhA and KBKhM are reassigned to Energomash.
      For those who do not know:
      - "Energomash" developer of high-power liquid rocket engines for the first stages of launch vehicles;
      - KBHA - 2nd and 3rd stages;
      - KBKhM - accelerating blocks.
      Things have been bad at KBHM for a long time. KBHA (and VSW) - everyone could read about the latest scandals (and these are the Soyuz, Proton and Angara engines). So this applies to the entire industry. One word comes to mind - sabotage.

      And Rogozin writes “Rap of Ukraine” in the face book. I am glad that we have such a witty Deputy Prime Minister, an advanced user of Facebook and Twitter. Apparently there is no time or energy left for the rest. :(
  54. +6
    27 March 2017 22: 51
    One day, Russian and German companies agreed to hold joint competitions in rowing eight-seater kayaks.
    Both teams trained long and hard and when both were at the peak of their form they staged a competition, but... The Germans won with an advantage of 1 km. After the defeat, the Russian team was demoralized.
    Top management decided to find out the cause of the failure.
    A working group was created to prepare proposals for changes and restructuring in the team. After many weeks of research, it was determined that the German team had seven rowers and one coxswain... and the Russian team had one rower and seven coxswains!
    The top management of the Russian company hired a consulting company to prepare and restructure the team. Having received a substantial fee and implemented KPIs, BSC and ISO 9001 indicators and conducted market research, the consulting firm came to the conclusion: Too many employees in the Russian team give commands and row too little...
    After the restructuring, the Russian team looked like this:
    - four helmsmen...
    - two senior helmsmen,
    - one steering director,
    - and one rower.
    In addition, a personal system for evaluating performance indicators was introduced for the rower and the range of responsibilities was expanded to increase his responsibility.
    The following year, the German team again won convincingly with a margin of 2 km. As a result of another defeat, the top management of the Russian company hired a consulting company to audit and evaluate the team’s effectiveness.
    It was decided to disband the rowing team... The rower, as the main culprit of the team's inefficiency, was fired, all planned investments for 2014-2015 in a new boat and oars were cancelled. The helmsmen were thanked, and the money saved was paid to top management as a bonus. :-)
  55. 0
    27 March 2017 22: 52
    I read the comments on the site and am amazed. they start to fight more and more here (I ask the moderator to skip this particular expression because no other is appropriate), apparently out of great intelligence and creativity. That's it, the site is gone)))
    1. +2
      28 March 2017 12: 32
      I apologize for the expression, but there is no sracha in this topic. there is almost unanimous opinion.
  56. +3
    28 March 2017 06: 29
    This is what I am sure of in many of our enterprises, where they only care about raising wages for top management and often at the expense of laying off workers.
  57. +1
    28 March 2017 06: 49
    It is not production workers who should be laid off, but relatives. Nepotism among senior management has reached intolerable limits.
  58. +3
    28 March 2017 08: 58
    Good material. Vital.
    I just have at least two questions:
    1. What kind of secret design bureau is this, documents from which (orders and other nonsense) can be distributed on public platforms. These documents are, at least, confidential. And, Comrade Roman, you can be charged with complicity in espionage. Not necessarily, but don’t you know how resourceful workers with a “long ear and a quick pen” are when they need to prove their need.
    But the second question, or even consideration, is more pressing.
    “Blondinko” really didn’t even bother to translate the word “coach”. And in Russian, the word “coach” (trainer, just in English) looks like something like this...brrrrr, six-legged, furry, menacingly smelly. Although there is a magnificent Russian word - mentor.
    So, who writes such orders with attachments is immediately clear.
    And most importantly, this is a problem not only of this interesting Design Bureau. This problem affects all corporations and government agencies.
    There is also a lot of such nonsense in our “property of Russia”. Shaft. It’s called a little differently, it’s as primitive as “professionalism and coaching” is not called. But - the PRINCIPLE is the same.
    We don't need to develop production. The Russian population is not provided with gas, oil and gasoline, airplanes or competitive Vestas or X-Rays - namely, taking care of the corporate spirit.
    It’s a gift that these same corporations picked up debt like silk. What is it, 400 million, or billions - and all the corporate debts. They must be given away. So the corporate people will give them away. And the managers will put on “golden parachutes”...or “silver-plated motor gliders”...or “bronze gliders” - and go crazy. When the rate of profit falls too low.
    There is nothing special here. The usual, standard practice of managers who have grown mad from impunity.
    I wonder where at the special vehicle depot that transports solid waste from place to place...or there, at the meat and bone meal plant, which stinks through and through, they also issue such Karabas-Barabasov orders. And they also target everyone for “coaching”?
    Poor Russia, poor us all, where have we come to? “Man - this sounds proud” .... “in twenty years, Soviet people will live under communism.”, We have created a new community - Soviet.”
    Like in the cartoon - “..we built and built and finally built it.”
    Seventy years of the rise of the human spirit are down the drain.
    Now we will develop “professional coaching”.
    Darkness.
  59. +1
    28 March 2017 11: 27
    Quote: Galleon
    Let me disagree with you. There were party commissions, there were higher authorities, where for such tricks they could turn the fur inside.

    -------------------------
    And I don’t mean the director level, but starting from the regional committee level. The situation was getting worse and worse. And the directors could also leave with a promotion.
  60. +2
    28 March 2017 13: 34
    I think that this situation is almost everywhere where the sweaty hands of defective managers and their girls reach. In the same Sberbank. Until then, in the same FSUE Russian Post, all sorts of sales people and other fans of the Western management style are in charge. Their salaries are appropriate, and let postmen and other plebs, in their opinion, work for pennies. And after loud statements about Russian Post as a new type of company, go to some rural post office, or maybe even a city one (in a regional center, for example), admire the conditions of “effective work.” Maybe someone will say, go to another job if this one doesn’t suit you. But people have no choice, especially in rural areas.
  61. +2
    28 March 2017 21: 54
    Why only about space? But in other industries you might think differently. In my deep conviction, SPECIALISTS should lead, not lawyers and financiers.
  62. +5
    28 March 2017 22: 14
    The commercial company Russia and its executive director Medvedev do not need NAH space. There is the United States, so let them do it. That’s what Dmitry Anatolyevich thinks. Moreover, soon there will be no personnel. In Voronezh, in order to OPTIMIZE healthcare, the Student Clinic was closed. And rightly so, there are no students, why clinics?? After all, the best education is in the USA, where Dmitry Anatolyevich is so eager to go as a teacher, but they won’t let him leave his post. He is a very successful manager of the colonial administration.
  63. +1
    29 March 2017 16: 43
    Well said - nothing to add! All the nonsense from commentators - well, if only in the furnace. Management - from capitalism... from socialism - only planned. And who said that Socialism is bad? Yes, the same, effective.
  64. 0
    29 March 2017 16: 54
    To the portal. Isn’t it difficult to distribute comments according to the principle: new, old, best... as self-respecting news agencies do?
    1. 0
      29 March 2017 17: 04
      Quote: Fred Timothy
      To the portal. Isn’t it difficult to distribute comments according to the principle: new, old, best... as self-respecting news agencies do?

      There is no strength to read nonsense for 100-200 comments.
      1. 0
        29 March 2017 17: 22
        “Read nonsense” is not directed at any of the commentators personally. Just scrolling through the comments makes me so sad (((
  65. +1
    29 March 2017 23: 25
    even if we assume that the author is a “dreamer,” although this is unlikely, but if we remember with what regularity at one time protons fell in our country, and this is not a new “machine,” then apparently not everything is really as good as we would like. It was one thing when the first rockets fell, during the time of S.P. Queen, then everything was for the first time, and it’s a different matter now. And Baikonur was built much faster then than Vostochny.
  66. +2
    30 March 2017 00: 46
    [quote=Curious]In the space of the former USSR, capitalists are the state. How will they limit themselves? Here again everything is classic.
    Well, it would be nice if they really were capitalists, industrialists-creators, but those who bred in the space of the former USSR cannot be called such, with rare exceptions. The overwhelming majority of these “aliarchs”, although of course it is more correct to write oligarchs grammatically, did not create anything, but simply appropriated the people’s property for their personal use, and in fact they can be considered leeches on the body of the state.]
  67. +1
    30 March 2017 11: 13
    Continuation of the story - https://lenta.ru/news/2017/03/30/proton/
  68. +1
    30 March 2017 14: 43
    Bravo, Roman! As always, “not in the eyebrow, but in the eye”! If only Rogozin could get a second “Chinese” eye... from Putin?
  69. +1
    31 March 2017 14: 21
    Every enthusiasm has its limit... And what A.V. did. Kamyshev and his henchmen. This is a bomb that has already detonated.
  70. +3
    April 1 2017 09: 10
    Quote: Igor V
    You would quote in full, then the meaning would not be lost! This meant a system in which similar research institutes and design bureaus functioned. Now this system is gone. And how much Ragozin do not pour mud, he will not be able to create conditions for everyone under which the above organizations will work normally.

    I completely agree with you!
    The mistake is that we tried to recreate the new defense industry system on the old organizational and technological basis of the times of the planned economy! Top management's reliance on "effective managers" is a failed attempt to neutralize this error! In my opinion, this is the problem!
    At that time, the fact that the organization was part of the defense industry structure guaranteed XNUMX% state defense orders. Now this is simply not realistic - a different economic system! Since we are currently (de facto) in a market economy, the structure of the modern defense industry should be completely different, based on broad horizontal integration of potential, a network structure. I am convinced that all this can and should be done!
    In a network structure, an enterprise can be involved in many technological chains, use its technological potential to a high degree, and receive enough resources from the network! In this case, even 50-60% of the state defense order will be a pleasant addition to the ever-increasing sales volume!
  71. +2
    April 2 2017 21: 08
    Well, I’m an employee of the KBHA testing complex. I can confirm everything that is written here. Our salaries have not changed since 2014. And they amount to 15-19 rubles + 5-12% for length of service and that’s all, because there are no more additional payments... For 2 years the payroll is only based on major holidays. Previously, it was 50 percent of the salary. Now if 10% is already good, although this year it was not given to the entire IC yet. They say there is some young boy who has become the chief of the planning department and thinks that it is not appropriate to give us a payroll, since we don’t conduct enough tests. In general, there have been a lot of different excuses for 2 years, we don’t fulfill the “plan”, we don’t get a bonus, we don’t give it either, like we’re working off the previous months. Young people are running away in droves. People survive only by working overtime. In principle, it still keeps it afloat; the complex is located in the suburbs and people from the surrounding villages work; they don’t need much work.
    And so the management, of course, does a good job, the HR department has grown 3 times fatter, both in terms of personnel, training and motivation. There are more bosses. The secretarial department was busy. Recently they wrote that a fashion coach was hired for 1,5 million to conduct master classes. In general, one gets the impression that Kamyshev’s task is to put on a smart face in a lousy state of affairs. Debts are growing.
    1. +3
      April 3 2017 08: 36
      Yes, problems... my condolences...