Military Review

Tanks "Merkava" Mk 3 will get KAZ "Meil Ruach"

77
To date, Israeli developments in the field of active protection systems for armored vehicles have become widely known. This equipment is already in use at tanks and other combat vehicles of the Israel Defense Forces, and is also offered for export. Not so long ago, it became known about new plans regarding the use of active protection systems in the course of the future modernization of combat vehicles of combat units. In the foreseeable future, the implementation of such plans should lead to the re-equipment of the entire fleet of regular units.


According to the latest reports of the Israeli press and relevant foreign publications, not so long ago, the Israeli Defense Ministry signed another contract for the supply of Meil ​​Ruach active defense systems (KAZ), also known under the Trophy commercial designation. It is reported that the purpose of the concluded agreement is to modernize the tanks available in the troops, which are still not KAZ carriers. We are talking about armored model "Merkava" Mk3. The performance of such work should have a positive effect on the survivability of equipment and, as a result, on the combat potential of the armored troops as a whole.


Tank "Merkava" Mk 4, equipped with KAZ "Meil Ruach"


It should be noted that the issue of equipping the Merkava Mk 3 tanks with active protection systems is not raised for the first time. Over the past few years, this topic has regularly become a subject of discussion at various levels, but so far it has not been able to move beyond conversations. According to recent reports, the military and industry were still able to come to an agreement and conclude a contract to carry out the required work.

Recall that the active defense complex Meil ​​Ruach was commissioned by the Raphael company in cooperation with the Department of Defense Ministry’s research projects. According to some reports, design work on this system started in the mid-nineties. The creation of the project took about ten years. The official presentation of the future development took place in March 2005. After completing all the necessary tests, and also taking into account the experience of the combat use of armored vehicles in recent conflicts, the army decided to launch mass production and purchase new complexes.

The principal decision on equipping the existing KAZ Trophy tanks was made based on the results of the Second Lebanon-Israeli War 2006. After analyzing the experience of using tanks in existing conditions, the IDF command recognized the need to use active protection capable of reducing the risks for tanks and their crews. The first carriers of the KAZ "Meil Ruach" were to become the Merkava tanks of the Mk 4 model. After this upgrade, the tanks received the designation Mk 4M.

According to reports, to date, active defense complexes have received at least most of the Mk 4 tanks in the army. It is known that by the middle of 2012, the 4 I tanklot ha-Barzel 401 Tank Brigade was fully transferred to the Merkava Mk 7M vehicles. Last year, a similar rearmament of the Saar Mi-Golan brigade was completed. Exact information about the state of the 460 training brigade "Bnei Or" is not available. Perhaps a certain number of her tanks also received active protection complexes necessary for improved crew training.


Antenna radar and launcher


Of the four regular armored brigades that are currently part of the ground forces of the Israeli army, only one continues to operate previous models of equipment. The 188 Barak Brigade is still operating Merkava Mk 3 tanks. According to the latest data, in parts of this brigade, as well as in training and reserve subunits, there are currently 160 tanks of this model. As stated in the latest reports of the foreign press, in the foreseeable future, this technique should receive active protection complexes. At the same time, it is planned to upgrade only tanks Mk 3 188 of the brigade.

Due to the general atmosphere of secrecy traditionally created by the Israeli military, several important questions remain unanswered. It is not known when the work will begin on the modernization of new equipment and when the army will receive the latest updated machines. In addition, information on the number of active protection complexes planned for installation is not disclosed yet. Finally, the sources of foreign publications did not specify what kind of KAZ it is. Previously, Raphael announced the start of work on upgrading the Meil ​​Ruach system, aimed at improving its main characteristics. Thus, in theory, the Merkava Mk 3 tanks can receive both existing and future protection systems.

The implementation of existing plans, not so long ago enshrined in the new contract, will be of great importance for the Israel Defense Forces. The armored units of the Israeli armed forces have to work in specific conditions, because of which special requirements are imposed on the level of protection of equipment against various threats. In the middle of the last decade, it became possible to improve the protection of tanks against anti-tank grenade launchers and missiles. Once again faced with similar threats in Lebanon, the Israeli command initiated the modernization of existing vehicles.

Of the four regular AOI tank brigades, one of which is training, two are using Merkava tanks Mk 4. To date, all these armored vehicles have been upgraded, implying the installation of the KAZ "Meil Ruach" / Trophy. The remaining brigade still uses the tanks of the previous model, which have only their own armor, covered with additional security modules. After upgrading, similar to the previously conducted, part of the 188-th brigade "Barak" will be able to get armored vehicles with improved indicators of protection and survivability. In the context of the general development of the army, this will mean a complete abandonment of tanks without active protection in the regular units used during combat operations.


The principle of the active protection complex


At the moment, the Israeli armed forces use the “Meil Ruah” base model or the so-called first generation. This system, created by the mid-2000s, is a typical representative of its class and has the appropriate appearance. KAZ Trophy consists of several main units mounted on the outer surface of the combat vehicle and inside the protected volume. It consists of four small-sized radar stations, a control unit and two launchers of protective ammunition. The total mass of the complex - 771 kg. In the basic configuration, Meil ​​Ruach costs about 300 thousand US dollars.

The principle of KAZ is quite simple. The EL / M-2133 radar, developed by Elta, using four antennas with phased antenna arrays automatically scans the surrounding terrain, having no dead zones in azimuth. Radar signals are transmitted to a computer that is responsible for recognizing detected objects and issuing a command to destroy them. When an object is detected, the dimensions and speed of which correspond to anti-tank ammunition of one kind or another, the computer sends a command to the launcher. The latter shoots a protective ammunition, which forms a beam of cumulative attack nuclei on the way of the target. Collision with similar damaging factors leads to the destruction of flying ammunition. An explosion or mechanical destruction occurs at a distance of up to several meters from the protected tank, due to which it is not subject to noticeable risks. Declared the possibility of simultaneous work on several flying objects.

The project “Meil Ruach” also provides for notification of the crew about the detected attack. The computer of the active protection complex, controlling the shooting of protective ammunition, simultaneously provides the necessary information to the crew. Using it, tank crews can identify the launch site of anti-tank ammunition and cover it with return fire.

According to reports, the KAZ Trophy has some limitations that have a corresponding effect on its overall combat effectiveness. The performance characteristics of the control computer and the parameters of the other elements of the complex lead to the fact that it is capable of striking only relatively slow ammunition. The required efficiency is achieved by countering anti-tank grenade launchers or guided missiles. When the enemy uses high-speed sub-caliber projectiles, Meil ​​Ruach may not have time to respond to the threat. It should be noted that simultaneously with this complex another system was developed which had similar capabilities.

On the basis of the original Meil ​​Ruach complex, two new modifications were created, differing in bundling and some basic characteristics. Thus, in the basic version, the KAZ is equipped with four radar antennas and two launchers with automatic recharging. Such equipment is designed for installation on tanks. Armored vehicles with a combat mass of no more than 30 T are proposed to be equipped with a Trophy Light complex, which includes a lightweight launcher. The "light" version of KAZ weighs only 454 kg. Techniques weighing less than 8 t can carry the Trpohy LV system, weighing just 200 kg. An additional mass reduction was obtained at the price of using a reduced set of components and a lightweight launcher without the means of automatic recharging.


The main tank "Merkava" Mk 3


The main and only operator of the KAZ “Meil Ruah” is currently the Israel Defense Forces. The sole carrier of such systems is still the main battle tank Merkava Mk 4M. In the foreseeable future, lists of operators and carriers may be updated. Thus, since last year, Raphael, with its project Trophy, participates in a competition of the US Department of Defense, according to the results of which it is planned to choose KAZ for installation on the M1A2 American tanks. In late February, it was reported that the system “Meil Ruach” was successfully introduced into the SEP v.3 retrofit complex and tested. The competition, which also involves three other designs, should be completed before the end of this year.

The Israeli army has a significant number of tanks equipped with active defense complexes. As a result, such equipment has already managed to take part in various military operations. Moreover, the Israeli military already have experience using the KAZ “Meil Ruah” in real combat conditions. Since the spring of 2011, at least two dozen facts of the use of active protection during shelling by the enemy have been recorded. According to various sources, at least, most of these interceptions were successful and did not allow an enemy missile / grenade to hit the protected tank.

It is known that in the face of real clashes, the “Meil Ruach” / Trophy complexes had to face a variety of various anti-tank systems, which are widely spread in the Middle East. According to various reports, the enemy tried to destroy tanks using RPG-7 and RPG-29 grenade launchers, and also used Metis, Konkurs, etc. missiles. In all known cases, anti-tank ammunition was destroyed on approach and did not have time to cause significant damage to the target.

The experience of the combat use of the Mk 4M main tanks Merkava with the Meil ​​Ruach active defense complexes showed the capabilities and prospects of such systems. According to the results of combat use, it was decided to equip such systems with various armored vehicles of other classes. Not so long ago, a new contract appeared, implying equipping the existing KAZ with the main Mk 3 tanks in service. As a result of the fulfillment of the recently appeared order, the entire fleet of equipment of the Merkava family in regular armored brigades will receive additional protection, which should have a positive effect on the overall capabilities and potential of the troops.


On the materials of the sites:
http://defense-update.com/
http://ynet.co.il/
http://israeldefense.co.il/
http://army-guide.com/
http://vpk.name/
http://oleggranovsky.livejournal.com/
Author:
Photos used:
Wikimedia Commons, Warspot.ru
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  1. stan
    stan 15 March 2017 07: 18
    +3
    handsome !!!
  2. Professor
    Professor 15 March 2017 08: 14
    +6
    The main tank "Merkava" Mk 3

    A strange photo was chosen by the author. I'm used to this kind of triple:


    So far, the only carrier of such systems is the Merkava Mk 4M main battle tank.

    ... as well as BTR Namer.
  3. Private61
    Private61 15 March 2017 09: 27
    +2
    Professor, tell me pliz what kind of flag is in the photo?
  4. Rabinowicz
    Rabinowicz 15 March 2017 09: 31
    +3
    Merkava 3 also needs protection. But you need to think about Merkava 5.
    1. Voyager
      Voyager 15 March 2017 12: 45
      +1
      As far as I remember yours at the moment in complete refusal to carry out such developments.
      1. Rabinowicz
        Rabinowicz 15 March 2017 12: 46
        +2
        I read that too. But in some places there is some information. I read that it will not be the fifth Merkava, but something fundamentally new. I even read about the laser gun)
        1. Voyager
          Voyager 15 March 2017 12: 48
          +2
          It would be interesting to see how it can still impress) Great cars in my opinion.
          1. Rabinowicz
            Rabinowicz 15 March 2017 12: 50
            +2
            Me too. But when it will be unknown, and whether it will be at all ...
        2. yehat
          yehat 17 March 2017 13: 17
          +1
          laser carrot, I think, is beyond the power of Israel. just beyond the power.
  5. Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 15 March 2017 09: 54
    +8
    In all known cases, anti-tank ammunition was destroyed on approach and did not have time to cause noticeable damage to the target.
    Key phrase "in all known cases." And what were the unknowns? This, apparently, when KAZ could not respond to the threat with sad consequences and these cases began "unknown".
    1. Professor
      Professor 15 March 2017 10: 17
      +7
      Quote: Black Colonel
      The key phrase is "in all known cases." And what were the unknowns? This, apparently, when KAZ was unable to respond to the threat with sad consequences and these cases became "unknown".

      And the losses are urgently classified? If this happened, it would be the last day of this government, and for the Minister of Defense and the Prime Minister the last day in politics.

      Quote: Private61
      Professor, tell me pliz what kind of flag is in the photo?

      ISIS is natural. wassat ask a padded jacket. This Persian comrade will tell how Israel created and supports the Islamists. fool


      Flag of the 77th battalion. In 1973, this battalion under the command of the Yemeni (Avigdor Kahalani) detained the Syrian armada in the Golan. This battle entered the textbooks.

      PS
      BTR Namer.
      1. Kurasava
        Kurasava 15 March 2017 10: 56
        12
        LLC What kind of people! Profesor! Kapara is on you! Again, humor, how can the Merkava’s Tan not be incited, well, naturally, and the Israeli government is not infallible! Isn’t it in this government that one prime minister is tried for embezzlement, the president was imprisoned for sexual harassment, and the army commander in 2006 (Ramatkal) played the second Lebanese stock exchange, knowing what consequences this would bring to the IDF? Oh yeahhh, of course, you have a "gallant government" to never secret a loss, well, yes, yes. In addition, if there were no casualties in the personnel and the tank was rendered harmless, such "losses" are not reported at all, especially if they are frequent, such as in 2006 in Lebanon.
        1. Professor
          Professor 15 March 2017 11: 07
          22
          Quote: Kurasava
          how does Merkava’s tan not

          Only idiots are not punched.

          Quote: Kurasava
          Isn’t it in this government that one prime minister is tried for embezzlement, the president was imprisoned for sexual harassment, and the army commander in 2006 (Ramatkal) played the second Lebanese stock exchange, knowing what consequences this would bring to the IDF?

          That is it. The prime minister is in favor of corruption, the president has served time for the rape of the secretary, and the chief of staff who, on the day the war began, ordered his bank to urgently sell his shares, has forgotten about his political career forever. I rest my case. hi

          Quote: Kurasava
          Oh yeahhh, of course, you have a "gallant government" to never secret a loss, well, yes, yes.

          Exactly. The roll-call list of all those who have fallen since 1863 is not only in the public domain, but also reads for Independence Day on the first TV channel.

          Quote: Kurasava
          In addition, if there were no casualties in the personnel and the tank was rendered harmless, such "losses" are not reported at all, especially if they are frequent, such as in 2006 in Lebanon.

          For example?
          1. Kurasava
            Kurasava 15 March 2017 11: 48
            +8
            Kapar’s “fessor” for you so the government either remained right nowhere, Olmert was tried only after he left office and then not immediately, but even several years later, so that the government did not instantly “end”, right? And the ramcatal did not instantly “fly out” (yes, he is a pilot) from his post but did not suffer any punishment at all. Be careful, I wrote not lined up, but do you have something about impenetrable ones? But yes, your truth, such tanks also do not exist. Losses were secreted even in the first war of independence, and their total number was fully disclosed only a few years later, this is normal practice, and special operations are always kept secret and losses there too, you know a lot about “losses” of matkalists or shayta from your relatives it’s true, but they sign the paper that it is impossible to disclose a certain time since the son, husband, brother died during a special mission outside Israel, if you served in military units “uv profesor kapara on you” you would know about it. On tanks - for example, not all data on a damaged armored vehicle from a battlefield in Lebanon (and I wrote to you that many of them were “babies” were damaged) voiced what burned to the ground and was not subject to restoration was recorded, what was dragged and restored from the battlefield fixed only for internal use. Lebanon in 2006, it was a huge FIASCO of our highly propelled tank in particular and the entire Shiren as a whole. ABOUT! And by the way about Kalahani, he’s a fine fellow no doubt and a well-deserved hero, without irony, but even he himself said that he was fighting at the same time with no more than a company of tanks (which is certainly not a little) and not with the ARMADA and the entire Syrian army. Do not repeat the strains of “our” propaganda made for schoolchildren and “tyrons,” what kind of “profesor” are you then?
            1. Professor
              Professor 15 March 2017 12: 10
              +9
              Young lady, distort my nickname again and go to the ignore list.

              Premiere planted only when the investigation in his case was completed and the court found him guilty. Moreover, he was imprisoned for acts committed by him as mayor before he became prime minister. The chief of staff of the criminal offenses did not commit. His political career and ambitions came to a finish precisely because of banking operations on the day the war began, although there was nothing illegal in it. Hide the current government, the death of at least one soldier and greetings to him. And forever.

              None of the parents of the soldiers signs any non-disclosure papers. I served in military units and my relatives did not sign anything at all. Nobody talked to them at all. I am not the only son in the family and therefore no one even asked their opinions. This is nonsense and your fantasies.

              An example of hiding the loss of armored vehicles in Lebanon in the studio.

              And yes, Kahalani did not let go the armada of Syrian tanks. That is exactly what happened. The Syrians did not pass.

              Less snot and more facts and equipment.
              1. Kurasava
                Kurasava 16 March 2017 09: 43
                +1
                Not uv. "Professor," you have already sent me to such a leaf about a year ago, it’s not scary (don’t, don’t drop me in the thorn bush, just not that) it means that “Jupiter, you’re wrong." And then you wrote to me that you did not serve in the military, remind me what kind of troops, what makhzor, what kind of gud? Unfortunately, our personal correspondence has not been preserved (maybe you have one?) Where you wrote to me so that I didn’t carry nonsense, there you were either "adobe" somehow or a mess, right? Then, too, we were talking about shyrena by the way, practically on the same topic. About signing papers - I talked about the parts that carry out tasks abroad and, it seems, from the age of 90 there is such a paper, if you don’t know something, “respected”, this does not mean that it is not. Concerning governments and politicians, they were convicted and sentenced, but their offenses, to put it mildly, became known while they were in office, and there was no "instant end" of their government, and their offenses were much more serious than concealing losses, and yet less ....... there was no instant collapse, right? Proofs - or evidence, what and how do you want me to provide them to you, you understand that this is not possible, I don’t have access to army documents, even if I were ... you understand yourself, so your "cry" - proofs in the studio! - It’s understandable in advance, and what calculation is also vivid. You are one of those "profesor" who really wanted but who didn’t take it, and wishful thinking, I’m not distorting your nickname, but I’m writing correctly since you are not a fig, not a professor, right? Well, now you can ban, or write something to me, "without snot and fantasy."

                P.S.

                Oh, yes Kahalani, he didn’t stop alone, but the tankmen didn’t, but the whole armada didn’t rub on his sector of the front, according to him, a part under his command knocked out 90 vehicles, (even if true), not all the armada, right, “Prof. Essor” ?
                1. Professor
                  Professor 16 March 2017 10: 16
                  +1
                  Quote: Kurasava
                  And then you wrote to me that you did not serve in the military, remind me what kind of troops, what makhzor, what kind of gud? Unfortunately, our personal correspondence has not been preserved (maybe you have one?) Where you wrote to me so that I didn’t carry nonsense, there you were either "adobe" somehow or a mess, right?

                  Served. And now I repeat again: "Do not write nonsense."

                  Quote: Kurasava
                  About signing papers - I talked about the parts that carry out tasks abroad and, it seems, from the age of 90 there is such a paper, if you don’t know something, “respected”, this does not mean that it is not.

                  As far as I know Lebanon abroad, my relatives did not sign any papers. Moreover, the matkalists work with me and they claim that their relatives did not sign any papers. The son of my ex-boss is now in a mess. No signatures.

                  Quote: Kurasava
                  Concerning governments and politicians, they were convicted and sentenced, but their offenses, to put it mildly, became known while they were in office, and there was no "instant end" of their government, and their offenses were much more serious than concealing losses, and yet less ....... there was no instant collapse, right? P

                  Instantaneous thing is relative. Today, the government has one vote and every vote in the Knesset could be an instant end to it. However, there has never been a single case of concealment of losses.

                  Quote: Kurasava
                  Proofs - or evidence, what and how do you want me to provide them to you, you understand that this is not possible, I don’t have access to army documents, even if I were ... you understand yourself, so your "cry" - proofs in the studio! - It’s understandable in advance, and what calculation is also vivid.

                  Once again you lied and once again your allegations are nothing more than exhaust.

                  Quote: Kurasava
                  You are one of those profesor ...

                  Welcome to ignore list.
                  1. Kurasava
                    Kurasava 17 March 2017 08: 50
                    +1
                    Ah ah ah. ProfEssor and you merged again. But I still answer, suddenly someone from the members of the forum will be interested. And so - 1) I repeat the question for all Israelis who served in the army, it is simple and understandable, this is what they say in Israel -alefbet (which means the alphabet) Where did they serve, what kind of hel, what kind of ghud, what kind of makhzor, what kind of gizra at least? You and last year refused to answer this question, and merged, even in PM. From which I draw an absolutely logical conclusion - no, our professor didn’t serve a damn thing, at least in the military units of the IDF, otherwise I wouldn’t have been having a simple answer to a clear question. About the papers - Lebanon, this is an official operation, the whole army is involved, it makes no sense to secret the losses (by the way, it was after it that they introduced hard censorship for the media), I’ve talked about secret operations, which the public should not know about, and if there were losses and the body was able to be taken away, such a loss will be classified for the public, because “we weren’t there”, the shaeteet, matkal, and the shaldagists sign such paper, as well as several others, “Sivug Bithoni” heard such a word (means access level), where such as you, for example (ordinary mortals), they should not be told about what they do what they do, where they have been and what papers they have signed, so - but I have a friend, from blah, blabl, chickens to laugh. Two "nefelya" (people who did not finish their studies) served with me in color: one from matkal, the other from shaldag, we covered our backs to each other, and still they didn’t tell any special details about their service, and asked for particularly persistent ones with inquiries, and you want the "son of a friend, uncle, chef" to direct everything. Instantaneous - well now the instantaneousness in us is already relative ...... understandably. As for the proofs - in addition to saying that I personally was there and participated and saw, lost my comrades, I also know the IDF’s subset as flaky as I was sadir (urgent) 3 years in combat units (unlike you) I have nothing to add, I have there was no time for the possibility of noting something there, and even such thoughts did not appear (I wouldn’t live to fat). Well, the bottom line and the conclusion- you are a “non-respected” ProfFessor using the fact that the vast majority of people here are not just in Israel did not serve in the army, but even didn’t come close to Israel, and they don’t have a clue how everything is there, which allows you here "sculpt" anything, as soon as someone appears who puts your "authority" in doubt, you ban him, which again leads to the conclusion that you are trying to pass off as wishful thinking and impersonate an expert and expert, and even almost war veteran, ay-yy-yay proffsosor! A thousand kapar on you.
                    1. merkava-2bet
                      merkava-2bet 6 August 2018 02: 43
                      0
                      Sivug Beethoni
                      This is the level of access to the secret infa, there is a general one and a professional one. There is also paper for participation in secret operations, I signed it myself and it’s called “tofes mesuvag shmirat maida”, and it’s of different levels and in different services.
            2. Costeneshty
              Costeneshty 15 March 2017 12: 26
              +6
              from badoon or what? proofs will be? or can you just balabol? especially about the fact that they were beaten by babies, very curious :))))) and burned to the ground right very interesting :)))))) in 2006 then))))))
              1. Kurasava
                Kurasava 16 March 2017 09: 11
                +2
                As an eyewitness to the events I say, I saw it myself, and they didn’t hide the “babies” and the cables from them, and they didn’t hide the Hezbaloids, they didn’t have so many “Fogotov” and “Metisov” and “Cornets” can be fingered on the fingers, most of them are these are North Korean and Chinese modernized "Baby". Read carefully what I wrote, those tanks that burned to the ground and weren’t subject to restoration were recorded in official losses, I didn’t write that they burned to the ground from the "little ones" but they were enough to damage the chassis, those that were pulled out for repair or repair right there (units) they didn’t record at all, although there were hits on them and the tank couldn’t act further, the hezbaloids used all their advantages to the fullest, completely valorizing us “valiant” shiryon.
              2. Kurasava
                Kurasava 16 March 2017 09: 57
                +2
                As part of this, he ate the dog to "profesor", I rarely comment on him only when he completely starts to lie and he always bans me at the same time, don’t you find this indicative of a person who is happy for the "infallibility of the IDF"? Regarding Lebanon, I was there and saw it, and saw the trophies in the form of those very “little ones,” but the order got into the running gear, the tank got up, the convoy too, they all put tanks in their pants and gave the back one (the task was completed) “Metisov “they didn’t have many Cornets on the fingers of Fogot, on the Syrian side, they’re enough“ Chinese ”and“ Korean ”babies, enough for Hezbollah, they’re not regulars, they’re at war with what they have, and they made the main financial emphasis on another rocket. Oh yes, to the ground, be careful I did not write that they burned to the ground from "babies". But the tanks were completely burnt down, do not believe me, ask Profesor, I believe him.
          2. AUL
            AUL 15 March 2017 19: 25
            +4
            The prime minister is in favor of corruption, the president has served time for the rape of the secretary, and the chief of staff who, on the day the war began, ordered his bank to urgently sell his shares, has forgotten about his political career forever.
            Oh, we would like that!
        2. urman
          urman 15 March 2017 11: 48
          10
          Quote: Kurasava
          Is it not in this government that one prime minister is tried for embezzlement, the president

          We would have been planted like that! Then we would be proud and have the right to reproach others. And it remains only to envy.
          1. Kurasava
            Kurasava 16 March 2017 10: 02
            +3
            do not flatter yourself, firstly it’s a drop in the ocean and with a big squeak, in which corruption and nepotism flourish in Israel, just a riotous color, and the third was just an answer from “prokhfEsorru” to his passage that if something suddenly happens the government will do it all he immediately kpets. He also does constantly, constantly, some kind of corruption scandals and showdowns, and nothing “works”; no immediate ends happen.
            1. urman
              urman 16 March 2017 11: 52
              +3
              Quote: Kurasava
              firstly a drop in the ocean

              laughing laughing laughing Indeed, let us take an example so that it does not drip at all. After all, we do not have a drop in the ocean, but a nano particle.
          2. Kurasava
            Kurasava 16 March 2017 10: 07
            +1
            and by the way, I can add, everything is fine with you, comrades, you are on the right track, but if Israel continues its (especially internal) policy in the same spirit, then unfortunately it does not expect anything good, you have nothing to envy.
            1. urman
              urman 16 March 2017 11: 48
              +4
              Quote: Kurasava
              It does and constantly, constantly, some kind of corruption scandals

              I think so, yes, I’m just sure that we have no less corruption, but the scandals associated with it, at the government level, are two times so much lately. And hello our bureaucrats and do not blow a mustache.
              Quote: Kurasava
              But if Israel continues its (especially domestic) policy in the same vein, then unfortunately it does not expect anything good, you have nothing to envy.

              And by and large, I do not care about Israel’s domestic policy, these are their problems, we would have to solve our own.
              As young people say, violet to me, I live in my homeland in RUSSIA. and I’m not going to dump anything.
              Let the Israelis and the Palestinians there, the Palestinians and the Israelis, understand.
              We have our own internal problems above the roof, some guests from Transcaucasia are worth something.
              1. Kurasava
                Kurasava 17 March 2017 08: 10
                +1
                The fact that you are not interested in Israel is understandable, I just gave you an example of what you should not write about. Believe me you don’t need to. We have these 3 examples that I brought to you over the past 12 years, and this is what we know, and what remains behind the scenes? And yes, some people don’t even blow a mustache, just like everywhere else, I live in Germany now, what do you think here differently? No, they don’t even put large corrupt officials here, officials do not officially bear personal responsibility for embezzlement of state funds, you even try and you can actually see the results in some places. And then there’s one facade, I repeat once again, there’s nothing to envy to Europe, especially not Israel.
      2. padded jacket
        padded jacket 15 March 2017 16: 43
        +1
        Quote: Professor
        ISIS is natural. ask a padded jacket wassat. This Persian comrade will tell how Israel created and supports the Islamists. fool

        Well, in principle, you yourself professor and answered - they have the same flags because apparently the terrorists of one banned organization fighting in Syria is one of the units of the Israeli IDF lol
  6. Skubudu
    Skubudu 15 March 2017 10: 18
    +3
    Rafael, with its Trophy project, is participating in a competition by the US Department of Defense, based on which it is planned to select a KAZ for installation on American M1A2 tanks.

    All this is very sad for us.
    It is unlikely that Merkava will ever cross the border of the Russian Federation, but the Abrams protected by Trophy ($ 300 is not money for such a serious upgrade for the United States), a serious problem in fact for all of our anti-tank potential, ATGMs, attack helicopters are also armed with missiles, only " Uranium scrap "guaranteed to be able to hit Abrams protected KAZ Trophy. Or almost simultaneously launch ATGM in one place with a minimum interval between launches.
    GDP needs to be told to Bene, if you start Trophy abroad, we will begin to sell Caliber and Iskander to Iran Syria and Lebanon
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 15 March 2017 11: 06
      +7
      Quote: Skubudu
      a serious problem in fact for all our anti-tank potential, ATGMs, attack helicopters are also armed with missiles, only Uranium Scrap is guaranteed to be able to hit Abrams protected by KAZ Trophy.

      You are so naive, thinking that our developers of anti-tank weapons cabbage soup slurp? I’m ready to argue with anything that the means of destruction are being developed that are guaranteed to burn Abrams with or without Trophy.
      1. Skubudu
        Skubudu 15 March 2017 11: 29
        +5
        Quote: NEXUS
        Quote: Skubudu
        a serious problem in fact for all our anti-tank potential, ATGMs, attack helicopters are also armed with missiles, only Uranium Scrap is guaranteed to be able to hit Abrams protected by KAZ Trophy.

        You are so naive, thinking that our developers of anti-tank weapons cabbage soup slurp? I’m ready to argue with anything that the means of destruction are being developed that are guaranteed to burn Abrams with or without Trophy.

        The most modern ATGM system in service with the Russian Army is Cornet, which in the case of a single launch will most likely be stopped by KAZ Trophy, this is why the twin ATGM systems are installed on all self-propelled vehicles, I think specifically for passing KAZ and DZ. There are no other means of overcoming KAZ aboard the Cornet rocket. In the next 10 years, no other ATGMs are expected to be put into service with the RA.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 15 March 2017 12: 31
          +3
          Quote: Skubudu
          The most modern ATGM in service with the Russian Army is the Cornet, which in the case of a single launch will most likely be stopped by KAZ Trophy

          Maybe...

          Quote: Skubudu
          In the next 10 years, no other ATGMs are expected to be put into service with the RA.

          And Hermes, Whirlwind-1, Cornet-EM? ...
          1. Voyager
            Voyager 15 March 2017 12: 52
            +4
            This panic is incomprehensible to me. And, sorry, Armata itself with guns and 125 and 152 mm for what are being developed? Today, the way to destroy the enemy is always an integrated approach. Moreover, today there are different ways to circumvent KAZ, including simultaneous missile launches, since we are talking about anti-tank systems. The reserves of "strength" for the modernization of our weapons also have not been canceled.
          2. Skubudu
            Skubudu 15 March 2017 13: 14
            +2
            Quote: NEXUS
            And Hermes, Whirlwind-1, Cornet-EM? ...

            It will be just wonderful if these missiles have electronic warfare equipment on board or other ways to overcome KAZ.
        2. Lopatov
          Lopatov 15 March 2017 12: 53
          +5
          Quote: Skubudu
          The most modern ATGM in service with the Russian Army - Cornet

          "Chrysanthemum". 8 years younger.
        3. padded jacket
          padded jacket 15 March 2017 18: 08
          0
          Quote: Skubudu
          The most modern ATGM in service with the Russian Army is the Cornet, which in the case of a single launch will most likely be stopped by KAZ Trophy

          Not a fact, but of course it requires verification. You need to put this ATGM in large quantities of Hamas to test them on the Merkavas in Gaza.
          Quote: Skubudu
          on this, all the self-propelled vehicles have twin ATGM systems, I think specifically for the passage of KAZ and DZ.

          It may well be that Iran has begun to make an analogue of the ATGM Cornet called Dehlaviye and supplies it to Hezbollah in particular and in the version with twin missiles.
          ATVs with twin missiles at PU ATGM Dehlaviye at Hezbollah (first in a row).
          1. padded jacket
            padded jacket 15 March 2017 18: 20
            0
            Even the Iranians have now demonstrated such a self-propelled ATGM Dehlaviye called Pirooz with a range of 5 kilometers like ours to fight promising tanks
      2. Costeneshty
        Costeneshty 15 March 2017 12: 31
        +1
        Well, argue :))) Have you ever been to the same military enterprise? have you seen orders? or your favorite tv channel star? :))) and yes, first figure out how the trophy works, how many goals and at what speed, then carry nonsense :))))
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 15 March 2017 12: 49
          +6
          Quote: Costeneshty
          Well, argue :)))

          Easy...
          Question: An Israeli-designed KAZ is protected from fragments of 152 mm HE shells and 120 mm HE mines?
          Question: Is KAZ of Israeli design capable of working on high-speed ATGMs?
          Question: Is Israeli-designed KAZ capable of protecting itself from a group launch of missiles?
          1. Costeneshty
            Costeneshty 15 March 2017 13: 18
            +1
            shrapnel ammunition burn abrams? Does anyone have high-speed petro? 6 goals at a time
            1. Skubudu
              Skubudu 15 March 2017 13: 20
              0
              What is the target speed limit for Trophy? Something I can’t find not where, 1200m / s or am I mistaken?
              1. Costeneshty
                Costeneshty 15 March 2017 13: 30
                0
                it is necessary to search for the Americans articles, I can only say that with the 300 m / s at the cornet trophy copes
            2. Lopatov
              Lopatov 15 March 2017 16: 24
              +5
              Quote: Costeneshty
              fragmentation ammunition burn abrams

              If there is a direct hit 152 mm HE shell-burn. If not, the KAZ will be disabled, and accordingly, the tank will be burned by some simple ATGM.
            3. yehat
              yehat 17 March 2017 13: 37
              0
              Abrams is a rather vulnerable tank. somewhere he has serious protection, and somewhere there are points that are easily amazed and make him ineffective (not to be confused with breaking through armor). In this regard, carrots are much more meticulously designed car.
              With a slingshot it’s not easy to knock her down.
              but, as they say, they have not yet invented a cockroach on which there are no slippers.
          2. Professor
            Professor 15 March 2017 18: 44
            +4
            Glad to see you in good health. hi

            Quote: Spade
            Question: An Israeli-designed KAZ is protected from fragments of 152 mm HE shells and 120 mm HE mines?

            Any KAZ is primarily intended for conflicts of low intensity where its main enemy is pocket artillery.

            Quote: Spade
            Question: Is KAZ of Israeli design capable of working on high-speed ATGMs?

            It seems so. The manufacturer claims that the heavy version of the Trophy is also designed to protect against tank ammunition.
            http://www.rafael.co.il/5690-765-en/Marketing.asp
            x

            Quote: Spade
            Question: Is Israeli-designed KAZ capable of protecting itself from a group launch of missiles?

            Any KAZ has a saturation limit. The probability of a group launch of missiles is not high since it requires the highest training of the defending side and a combination of many circumstances.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 15 March 2017 20: 32
              +2
              Welcome.
              Quote: Professor
              Any KAZ is primarily intended for conflicts of low intensity where its main enemy is pocket artillery.

              Exactly. In the "big war" it will not be particularly effective.
              And for conflicts of low intensity there is nothing better

              Quote: Professor
              It seems so. The manufacturer claims that the heavy version of the Trophy is also designed to protect against tank ammunition.
              http://www.rafael.co.il/5690-765-en/Marketing.asp

              Then yes. Accepted.

              Quote: Professor
              Any KAZ has a saturation limit. The probability of a group launch of missiles is not high since it requires the highest training of the defending side and a combination of many circumstances.

              By no means.
              Synchronizing the launch of two portable ATGMs is not a particularly difficult task. Especially in the presence of experienced ATGMs, which in recent years have appeared very, very many.
              It’s just that there were no such tasks before ...
              1. Professor
                Professor 16 March 2017 07: 58
                0
                Quote: Spade
                Exactly. In the "big war" it will not be particularly effective.
                And for conflicts of low intensity there is nothing better

                good

                Quote: Spade
                Synchronizing the launch of two portable ATGMs is not a particularly difficult task. Especially in the presence of experienced ATGMs, which in recent years have appeared very, very many.

                Not just a difficult task, but a very difficult one. Going to the tank shooting position is already a big success today, firing and getting there is super luck and screams to the whole world Alah Wakbar (not the fact that the hit will lead to the defeat of the tank), but to do it twice and even with an interval of milliseconds .. .
                Here's how to examples Shiite terrorists shot in 2000 empty tank:
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 16 March 2017 08: 13
                  0
                  Quote: Professor
                  Not just a difficult task, but a very difficult one. Going to the tank firing position is already a big success today, firing and getting there is super luck

                  Come on, they learned to shoot well.

                  And the process itself is two “launchers”, one position, a device that carries out a coordinated launch. The only problem is the presence of a second operator that can normally work on the target when it is not launched.

                  The second option is with the Cornets and their Iranian fake. There you can safely install two TPK on one launcher. Just make a simple little scheme that launches a second rocket after a short period of time. A laser-beam control system allows for the "wiring" of several missiles in one beam
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 16 March 2017 08: 55
                    0
                    Quote: Spade
                    Come on, they learned to shoot well.

                    Yah? Do you have statistics on their launches or only those successful ones posted on the Internet where they warn Alla that they are heading to a bar? You yourself know what the tabular probability of defeating ATGM targets like a tank. Now squared this probability as events are independent. So it turns out that KAZ today is even a very effective lotion.

                    Quote: Spade
                    And the process itself is two “launchers”, one position, a device that carries out a coordinated launch. The only problem is the presence of a second operator that can normally work on the target when it is not launched.

                    There they have operators worth its weight in gold, and you need at least two stars.

                    Quote: Spade
                    The second option is with the Cornets and their Iranian fake. There you can safely install two TPK on one launcher. Just make a simple little scheme that launches a second rocket after a short period of time. A laser-beam control system allows for the "wiring" of several missiles in one beam

                    Can. Russia has already done this, but it is no longer portable PU, but mobile on a heavy "high-passable" chassis like the Tiger. But even in this case, it is assumed that the tank does not use any means other than KAZ, does not shoot smoke screens when it detects laser irradiation and / or rocket launch, does not return fire and does not perform sharp maneuvers.
                    1. Kurasava
                      Kurasava 16 March 2017 10: 20
                      0
                      Well, it’s not so heavy, it will be no heavier than “Orev” for which a whole “color” is needed and only 2 more rockets at best.
                2. Kurasava
                  Kurasava 16 March 2017 10: 27
                  0
                  Much depends on the type of terrain, in Lebanon they did very well and they have a good number of operators, unfortunately for the IDF in 2006, and after the Syrian experience it became even more visible.
                  PS
                  Have you banned me already go "profesor"? )))
            2. yehat
              yehat 17 March 2017 13: 41
              +1
              oh come on about preparation and circumstances! They killed the harp and begin to hollow until the hole goes through
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 15 March 2017 14: 09
      +6
      "if you start Trophy abroad ..." ////

      For Americans - for sure (if we win the tender).
      Then the release of the Trophy will begin in the United States, its cost will drop sharply.
      That will allow you to put it on all armored vehicles, without thinking about the costs.
      1. Kurasava
        Kurasava 16 March 2017 10: 23
        0
        I don’t even know what to say, where did you get that if you make it in shatata it will become cheaper, why did you conclude that you can not think about the costs?
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 16 March 2017 12: 04
          0
          "where did you get that if you produce in shatah it will become cheaper" ///

          The larger the series of any product, the lower its cost.
          1. Kurasava
            Kurasava 17 March 2017 08: 12
            0
            Well, that’s true, the more the cheaper, but in shatath the workforce is more expensive, a couple of times, maybe if it comes out cheaper it’s not much, well, certainly not so much to think about - But you did not think about the costs, and by the way, the “tandem” has a chance to say “KAZ” but the effect will certainly not be the same, but for the chassis it may be enough.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 17 March 2017 21: 09
              +1
              KAZ is not some kind of absolute defense, but one of the defenses. Combined with conventional passive armor, smoke screen and maneuvering, tank survival can be enhanced.
              1. Kurasava
                Kurasava 19 March 2017 16: 31
                0
                Without a doubt, help and enhance, this is an eternal competition of armor and shell. I do not argue here, this is because an example that of course KAZ is not a panacea. Still, I doubt that the “trophy” will be so cheap that they will sculpt without looking at the money. And do not forget about lobbyists.
      2. The brightest
        The brightest 18 March 2017 07: 06
        0
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Then the release of the Trophy will begin in the United States, its cost will drop sharply.
        That will allow you to put it on all armored vehicles, without thinking about the costs.

        Ahahaha, a tale about how pin to sy conceived a cheap f-35
  7. chenia
    chenia 15 March 2017 11: 25
    0
    Recently there has been a debate about the need to have tank destroyers.
    I still say that without a downed KAZ, you won’t get to the tank with an ATGM and a grenade launcher.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 15 March 2017 12: 50
      +3
      If you "sit in ambush" - it could very well be ...
      And if the artillery NZO / PZO put? What will happen to KAZ?
      1. chenia
        chenia 15 March 2017 13: 57
        0
        Shovels, you read the actions of the PT rez in the Artillery Unit
        (I left in the last branch). And the term "ambush" in the dictionary.
        In defense PT res. perhaps it will only be supported by a motorized rifle unit covering the withdrawal and REF.
        Most of the remaining artillery will be used to repel an attack on the second position OR counter-preparation for a counterattack.

        And how much time do you need to notice the shooting of the IT department?
        You imagine the enemy pounding on the outgoing, everything is on fire and smoke, and the enemy will only feel the shot of the gun when it starts to lose tanks and other armored vehicles, and fragmentation can be fired on infantry.

        3 min. this is about 12 shots per gun, (125-130-152 mm), even if not the whole company is 6 IT (and remember the coefficients?) and while they use the WTO, the attack will be disrupted.

        By the way about hyper-fast weapons, and a cumulative funnel will not turn inside out, before the initiation of an explosion.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 15 March 2017 16: 30
          +1
          Quote: chenia
          Shovels, you read the actions of the PT rez in the Artillery Unit

          Why should I "read" it, I studied this topic back in college much wider and deeper. And then, already in the army, I had to turn to her at KShU.

          Quote: chenia
          3 min. this is about 12 shots per gun, (125-130-152 mm), even if not the whole company is 6 IT (and remember the coefficients?) and while they use the WTO, the attack will be disrupted.

          8))))) The platoon of the "heavy" brigade of the US Army is 4 Tou and 3 Javelina. I am afraid that “while they apply” it will last a very short time.
          1. chenia
            chenia 15 March 2017 16: 44
            0
            Quote: Spade
            I am afraid that “while they apply” it will last a very short time.


            This is a war, But the question is, is the task of the PT rez to be completed?

            And by the way, what’s interfering with delivering to IT KAZ.
            And that means you need to pre-shoot them (shoot down KAZ), again a loss of time
            .
            Quote: Spade
            Why do I need to "read" it, I studied this topic back in college much wider and deeper


            At school, well, only theoretically - you just remember that the intervals between guns up to 200 m. I agree with the troops.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 15 March 2017 17: 12
              0
              Quote: chenia
              At the school, well, only theoretically - you just remember the intervals between the instruments up to 200 m.

              But here, no. In us it is hammered notably. Fri Res. shelf - anti-tank battery In my time, the graduate became the commander of the battery for up to a year.

              Quote: chenia
              This is a war, But the question is, is the task of the PT rez to be completed?

              Without artillery with a PDO? No.

              Quote: chenia
              And by the way, what’s interfering with delivering to IT KAZ.

              And what prevents the addition of one tank company? At a cost of almost one to one, if IT is made adequate to the requirements of the present.
              1. chenia
                chenia 15 March 2017 17: 50
                0
                Quote: Spade
                In my time, the graduate became the commander of the battery for up to a year.


                In mine too (mid 70's)

                Quote: Spade
                And what prevents the addition of one tank company?


                What am I talking about? Of course in TB. There and Zampotech with the service team are your guys.
                But IT can have a more powerful tool (130-152mm) and more calibers. To hell with it to compensate for the rollback let there be a muzzle brake.

                Imagine a tower shifted to the control compartment (crew of 2 people). and on the march follows with a fixed falcon back. In front of it has a blade. And takes the stern (trunk) forward to the front. The blade can be used as a coulter (for certain angles of fire. The reservation is lightweight. Seriously only the top and the tower.

                After all, in addition to ATGMs, we also have anti-tank artillery, which is an anachronism.

                As a system of shooting with PDO worthless. Rugged terrain - the crest of the shelter - you cannot shoot closer than 7-8 km. or drag the battery to the next hill (MT_-12).
                And the intended use is death to the enemy .. (well, then you know).

                So, we give the ATGMs to the infantry. IT tankers.

                And in order not to offend themselves (because they handed out so much), the SME must have a jet battery (and earlier it was GRAD-1 in individual SMEs) and a BUAR at Nach.art. Well and 8 gun batteries (in the Vienna battalions in ADN MSTA-S )

                Well, it seems I have not offended anyone.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 15 March 2017 18: 13
                  0
                  Quote: chenia
                  But IT can have a more powerful tool (130-152mm) and more calibers. To hell with it to compensate for the rollback let there be a muzzle brake.

                  What for? If the existing gauges cope. They can’t cope, it is necessary to change the caliber first of all in tanks, and not in anything unknown.

                  Quote: chenia
                  So, we give the ATGMs to the infantry.

                  Money again for the fish. Firstly, the infantry already has them, and secondly, infantry officers cannot fully control artillery fire.

                  Quote: chenia
                  IT tankers

                  Why do they need them? Seriously, it’s almost like a tank, but it differs from it only in the absence of stable weapons. Meaning? It’s easier to add another tank company. I mean, with tanks.

                  Quote: chenia
                  And in order not to offend yourself (because so many were distributed), in SMEs to have a jet battery

                  We have reactive divisions in our brigades.
                  1. chenia
                    chenia 15 March 2017 18: 58
                    0
                    Quote: Spade
                    What for? If the existing gauges cope.


                    So far, yes. But the prospect. Armata appeared, there will be armature-like and opponents. Already the Germans sharpen 140mm.
                    Quote: Spade
                    Firstly, the infantry already have them,

                    I know.
                    Quote: Spade
                    infantry officers cannot fully control artillery fire.


                    And what will the ATGM battery manage? But the commander of the min.batr (outgoing SME) or its HLD will not work, and the three battalion commanders of the ADN and the division’s CD, they are also scooping up from the first position (we still have them at the KNP).

                    Quote: Spade
                    It’s easier to add another tank company. I mean, with tanks.


                    Tanks are becoming more expensive, it’s with us that they just exceeded 40 tons, and then there is ARMATA. And IT is more than 30 tons and is not needed, most of the body is in the ground. But the cannon can be dragged by a powerful and long one (after all, do not go on the attack).
                    IT transport guns and armor for the reduced crew. The tank in this embodiment will disproportionately grow in size and price.

                    Quote: Spade
                    We have reactive divisions in our brigades.


                    So it seems that they are switching to the divisional, and there in the SME MSD REABatr. did not have.
    2. yehat
      yehat 20 March 2017 12: 31
      0
      In the 41st, the Germans will have to mold the Heftkhohladungi on the armor (it seems so-called mines)
  8. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 16 March 2017 14: 40
    0
    Quote: Skubudu
    Abrams protected by Trophy ($ 300 is not money for such a serious upgrade for the USA), a serious problem in fact for all of our anti-tank potential

    But is it possible to disable KAZ, including Trophy, in the same way as it destroys ATGMs (balls, submunitions and the like)?
  9. hezbola
    hezbola 21 March 2017 14: 40
    0
    from RPG 30 will not go away, as well as from the corrected 120mm min.
  10. erudit 017
    erudit 017 April 24 2017 20: 24
    +1
    how many reviews you read, completely different opinions about this tank, someone considers one of the best, someone laughs after the 2nd Lebanon war saying that you won’t understand one PR!
  11. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 27 May 2017 01: 04
    0
    But what is this chariot?

    1. merkava-2bet
      merkava-2bet 9 August 2018 14: 25
      0
      The first photo, the Merkava-2 tank, Bet Meshupar, if I’m not mistaken about the Scheme, 82 battalion, the numbers on the side screens (bazooka board) are white paint, this is their chip, charm. The tank pulled out onto the road due to the driver’s night vision device , we also almost moved out, we call this problem “the play of light and shadows”, this is a problem for all infrared devices up to the 4th generation, therefore, on the Merkava-3 and 4 tanks they install thermal imaging observation devices for mechanical drivers.
      The second photo of the Merkava-3Ramakh tank, based on the training of reservists in Tsaelim, the engine caught fire, the Septronic system software system worked or not, but the tank was put out by an excavator, just falling asleep, simply and efficiently.
  12. Soldiers
    Soldiers 25 June 2017 18: 20
    +1
    Great tank fellow