Ajax discovery: more about the latest family of British combat vehicles. Part of 2

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New armored vehicle Ajax British Army

Ajax discovery: more about the latest family of British combat vehicles. Part of 2

How it works 40-mm automatic gun CTAS



For the 40-mm CTAS automatic cannon with telescopic ammunition, seven types of STA ammunition with capsule ignition have been developed or are under development. The qualification of ammunition by the French Armaments Office and the British Ministry of Defense was carried out in stages. At the first stage of the Wave 1A, an armor-piercing feathered sabot tracer (BOPS-T) and a practical tracer were qualified. The first consists of a pallet assembly with a leading part (230 grams) and a sub-equipment — a feathered arrow-shaped core (320 grams). The projectile assembly is shot at a speed of more than 1500 m / s and is able to penetrate more than 140 mm rolled uniform armor at a distance of 1500 meters. The second projectile has an initial speed of 1000 m / s and according to ballistics it corresponds to the not yet qualified universal high-explosive fragmentation projectiles (anti-personnel / for defeating the material part).

In accordance with the Wave IB stage, a universal high-explosive fragmentation projectile with a tracer head fuse (GPR-PD-T) will be qualified, and at the Wave 2 stage, a universal air blast tracer (GPR-AB-T) and a practical tracer with a reduced range (TPRR- T). The GPR-PD-T and GPR-AB-T shells weighing 980 grams, in fact, are the same shell, but different fuses. The first one simply detonates instantly when it meets a target, and the second has three detonation modes: shock, shock with a delay and air blast. Both projectiles are capable of penetrating 15 mm of rolled armor or a concrete wall 210 mm thick in impact mode, the second projectile in air blasting mode creates a lethal area of ​​more than 125 m2. TPRR-T is lighter (730 grams) and faster (> 1000 m / s), but has reduced wear (less propellant mass), has a shorter range of 6500 meters; this cheaper practical ballistic projectile up to a distance of 1500 meters corresponds to the GPR-PD-T and GPR-AB-T projectiles. Reducing the range is achieved through a combination of less mass (hence, greater aerodynamic drag) and rotation, the destabilizing system is represented by several cutouts extending from the nose along most of the hull (photo below, right-most projectile).



And, finally, another type promoted on the market is an air explosive AZV-T projectile, a tracer, to combat air targets, it has a mass of 1400 grams and a low initial velocity (900 m / s). The projectile is designed to combat UAVs, helicopters and slow-flying aircraft. The projectile fuse has two modes: shock and delayed action (the fuse variant installed in GPR-AB-T); This cassette projectile is equipped with a small expelling charge and 200 cylindrical tungsten alloy elements. The striking elements work on the same principle as in the AHEAD (Advanced Hit Efficiency and Destruction - Projectile), developed by Oerlikon, released before the target and disintegrated due to a combination of charge and rotation. They form an expanding cone, which hits the target due to a combination of speed (the initial velocity of the elements is close to the velocity of the projectile in the explosion) and the density of the cloud.

Another type, the development status of which is still unknown, is a practical tracer, according to ballistics, the corresponding BOPS.


Thales ORION main sighting system for the Ajax family of machines

Systems, sensors, equipment of new machines

The Ajax variant, described as the future eyes and ears of the British army, uses a number of advanced technologies that made it possible to obtain an ISTAR deployable all-weather platform (information gathering, surveillance, target designation and reconnaissance).

Reporting at the conference "Situation awareness of promising armored vehicles" in March 2016, Lieutenant Colonel Mark Cornell from the British Department of Defense said that after Operation "Herrick" the military expects global connectivity, data transfer services and visual aids, seamless data exchange between platforms , as well as intuitive and simple tactical communication equipment.

The Ajax family reflects the adaptation of an information-centric approach to the modernization of command, control and communications systems when the platform is at the center of information collection and distribution, allowing you to quickly distribute, process and present data.

Integrated into the Ajax armored vehicle, the functional system uses open standards and supports a scalable architecture, the introduction of which increases flexibility and interoperability and saves money in future upgrades and changes to the combat mission of the vehicle.

The concept of the Ajax platform is consistent with the common (standard) architecture (GVA) for vehicles of the British defense standard 23-09, which promotes a common approach to vehicle configuration and defines standards for vehicle design and development. GVA is based on agreed open standards that underpin the standards of the electronic architecture, human-machine interfaces, standards for the formation and transmission of video data, standards for power systems, standards for mechanical systems, and systems for monitoring the condition and use of systems.

The modular, open-source Ajax architecture provides abbreviated update cycles in computer, sensory, and electronic systems, allowing you to improve the continuity of new systems and the regular spiral development of capabilities as new technologies become available. The modularity of the Ajax platform allows you to quickly change its configuration as new and symmetric and asymmetric threats emerge and develop.

The architecture includes a central data bus that transmits video and audio data and messages, while the electronic architecture allows you to combine input and output information from various equipment, such as sensors, actuators, crew displays, communication systems and internal / external interconnect devices.

Following the issuance of the initial contract, General Dynamics entered into an agreement with Thales for the supply of sighting systems and situational awareness systems.

The main aiming system installed on the Ajax machine is the Thales ORION stabilized independent panoramic sight, which provides the vehicle commander with round-robin observation and target identification, regardless of the orientation of the turret. The stabilized system allows you to lead and capture targets in motion.

The ORION system includes a Catherine-MP (Mega-Pixel) thermal imager from Thales Optronics, equipped with a Gen 3 microbolometer. Catherine-MP can be selected with a mid-wave or long-wave receiver. The receiver in the mid-IR region of the spectrum is sensitive in the 3-5 μm spectral range and has a pixel pitch of 15 μm and an 640 x 512 matrix format, and the receiver in the long-wave (near-infrared) IR region of the spectrum operates in the 8-12 μm range and has a pixel pitch 20 um.

ORION also includes an eye-safe laser range finder, two high-resolution color cameras, and a gigabit Ethernet standard interface (GigE, 1 Gbit / s local area network) for data exchange and communication. The system is compatible with the British GVA standard and uses open standards for transmitting digital video, connecting subsystems, their interoperability, and transcoding the video stream.



The Ajax armored vehicle will have a Saab Barracuda mobile camouflage system, since from the very beginning it was designed with the installation of this system in mind.

The Thales kit includes a two-axis stabilized modular sight DNGST3. The sight DNGST3 provides detection and capture of targets in motion day and night. Its modularity lies in the fact that it is possible to choose for it either a medium wave or a long wave infrared imager plus a high resolution sensor with either a narrow or wide field of view. DNGST3 also includes a laser range finder and has GigE and video interfaces for exchanging data with a fire control system (FCS).

The contract with Thales includes the supply of local video surveillance cameras, which are used for round-the-clock surveillance and identification of threats in the immediate vicinity of the vehicle through a combination of uncooled thermal imagers and day cameras.

On the Ajax platform, surveillance systems from the British company Kent Periscopes are installed. The system includes periscopic prism instruments and a commander's auxiliary sight, designed specifically for installation in the Ajax tower. On the case of the Ajax platform, there are also two periscopes, including those on the hatch of the driver.

Esterline delivers Codis TX hardened displays used to display platform parameter information and data from sensor systems. Codis touchscreen displays are designed to work in demanding conditions and are compatible with the NVIS standard (the ability to work with night vision devices), have LED backlighting for working in bright lighting and DVI, RGB, USB and serial interfaces. The package includes a display for the Codis TX-335S turret, used to display information about the parameters of the gun control system, system metadata and logistic information. The Codis TX-321S driver's three-part display is used to represent the front view in the 120 ° sector, as well as display images from the front and rear cameras with the choice of day or night channel. The heart of the system is the Codis VPU-101 video processing unit, which is used to process and transcode input information from various Ajax platform systems and distribute it across displays and data storage servers.

The Ajax touch kit includes Smiths Detection detectors designed to warn the crew of a chemical attack or the presence of resistant chemicals. LCD 3.3 does not require calibration or routine maintenance, it identifies poisonous substances of general toxicity, nerve agents, skin blisters, asphyxiation, and a user-selected set of toxic industrial chemicals. LCD 3.3 has an automatic input module that allows you to work with the detectors of the LCD system in remote or automatic mode. The power supply system of the machine ensures the operation of the LCD 3.3. The system is suitable for use both inside and outside the platform, and is certified for compliance with the safety requirements of environmental standards MIL-STD-810G, MIL-STD-461F and MIL-STD-1275.

The Ajax machine is equipped with a protection complex from Elbit Systems, which includes laser warning receivers, missile attack warning sensors and an infrared interference transmitter. The E-LAWS laser irradiation warning system detects, classifies, and localizes a laser beam source, including range finders, target indicators, and IR illuminator sources. The stated spectral range of the system varies from 0,5 to 1,6 microns. The structure of E-LAWS includes a sensor mounted on the roof of the tower to provide all-coverage. Decisions in the field of vitality also include a system to counter the infrared means VIRCM. The low-visibility VIRCM system provides protection against various missiles with semi-automatic guidance systems along the line of sight.

Multispectral smoke screen producers, mounted on the Ajax tower, are sent and shot automatically, creating a smoke screen in the visible and infrared spectra and allowing the car to secretly perform a maneuver.

The next-generation tactical information and control system MORPHEUS, designed to replace the outdated Bowman C systems from BAT and BISA, is also integrated into the Ajax platform. MORPHEUS is part of the MODAF (MoD Architecture Framework), the so-called Ministry of Defense framework, designed for defense planning and finding commercial solutions in the field of mobile communications and data processing that can be used for military tasks.

MORPHEUS provides an extensible, modular, open architecture that allows for more extensive use of ready-made commercial and military components with automatic and manual configuration for low-cost technology upgrades. In addition, work is under way to ensure that, with the help of the MORPHEUS system, the dismounted soldiers are provided with the capabilities of an onboard situational awareness system.

Kongsberg has signed a contract with General Dynamics for the delivery of the Kongsberg PROTECTOR remotely controlled combat module (SDM). This SDS can accept small and medium-caliber weapons and is suitable for installation on all versions of the platform. When installed on the Ajax variant, it is installed instead of the ORION main sight.

In the summer of 2016, GDLS-UK and Lockheed Martin UK, with the support of CTAI, conducted complex combat shooting from the Kongsberg PROTECTOR DBMS. For these tests, the Ares version of the Ajax family was taken; Shooting was conducted from the universal and heavy machine guns, grenade launchers and smoke grenade launchers.

The level of basic armor of the Ajax corps, although it was not announced, but presumably not inferior to the level of defense of the tower, but, most likely, exceeds it. The internal layout of the vehicle (both in ASCOD and Ajax; recall that Ajax is based on the ASCOD platform) means that the power unit located in front and the fuel tanks installed on the sides provide additional protection for some crew members against armor-piercing and cumulative projectiles . The Ajax machine's splinterproof baffles are the same as on the ASCOD platform, which reduces the angle of the fragments in case of piercing armor.

Judging by the available photo and video frames, the Ajax platform is equipped with wide removable armor elements / panels, which in the basic configuration cover the case from its roof to the top of the side panels. In order to increase protection, these panels can be extended, as well as the side screens, to the axis of the wheels. These panels can be filled with various security systems, for example, composite armor, spaced armor, perforated screens, non-explosive dynamic protection, electrical armor, or a combination of both. For constructive reasons, the installation of dynamic protection blocks, apparently, is not provided.

About ASCOD and Ajax mine protection almost nothing is known, although for the first of these platforms the level of protection is stated to be high, very likely not less than 3 Level (8-kg mine under any part of the hull or tracks), but rather 4 Level (as 3 Level only mine weighing 10 kg). The level of protection against IEDs (high-explosive, fragmentation and “shock core” type) is unknown.

The new solution aimed at increasing the survivability of the Ajax platform was the integration of a special mobile camouflage system Saab Barracuda MCS (mobile camouflage system), which buyers have already become Canada, Germany, the Netherlands. While creating the MCS designed for installation on Ajax platforms, the same basic technologies were used as in other similar systems, it is specially adapted to the requirements of the British army. “Each operator can determine which requirements he really considers important, therefore systems of different armies differ in configuration. There are also differences in the generations of camouflage systems, because the development of materials that we can use in our systems is constantly underway, because we strive to get the best performance compared to the previous generation. The system is developing depending on the direction of technology development, ”said Mr. Alund, a representative of Saab Barracuda, in one of last year’s interviews.

The configuration developed for Ajax is aimed at complying with the doctrine of the British army - where the machine will be deployed and the threats it will face. Alund added that “first of all, a forest configuration should be installed, but at least there are two more configurations for this machine aimed at countering possible threats”.

Alound noted that after asymmetrical warfare, similar to those that were conducted in Afghanistan and Iraq, the British army shifted its focus to conflicts with an equal rival and the MCS system for the Ajax platform is aimed at this. “The configuration we developed for Ajax is designed to deal with the most complex threats. Therefore, it will give Ajax a very good chance to cope with the threat of any level ... This is by far the most perfect system that we have created. ”

MCS camouflage provides multispectral protection in the visible, thermal, infrared and radio frequency spectra. “The system of series-connected panels consists of several layers of material that are processed or coated with various paints, pigments and coatings that work well in their parts of the electromagnetic spectrum,” explained Alund.

On the original platform ASCOD installed torsion bar suspension. However, the Ajax project was finalized; a new suspension system was proposed for it, combining torsion bars and hydraulic shock absorbers to improve ride quality and stability of the weapon system when driving over rough terrain. Also, according to the results of the contest, the British company Cook Defense Systems received a contract for the supply of tracks for the new platform.

On the Ajax family of machines, a compact power unit is installed, consisting of a diesel engine MTU V8 199ТЕ21 with an 600 kW power, combined with an automatic transmission Renk 2S6B. MTU, part of Rolls-Royce Power Systems, was awarded the Ajax contract in May 2015 of the year to supply GDUK with 2016 to 2022 year 589 engines totaling 80 million euros. This engine is a further development of the MTU V8 199 TE20 530 kW model currently manufactured for the Boxer MRAV of ARTEC (a joint venture of Krauss-Maffei Wegmann GmbH, Rheinmetall MAN Military Vehicles GmbH and Rheinmetall MAN Military Vehicles Nederland BV). Other engines of the MTU 199 series are installed on Austrian ULAN and Spanish Pizarro cars, which are also based on the ASCOD chassis. The 199 series engine, in turn, is based on the engine for a Mercedes-Benz OM 500 truck adapted by MTU for military use. On the Ajax platforms, a modified air intake system and a two-stage air filter with pulse cleaning are installed.





Ajax will be the first platform for the British army to be powered by MTU, despite the fact that, historically, it has chosen local suppliers, Jaguar and Perkins (currently Caterpillar). In the case of additional developments and purchases in the field of armored vehicles, including the planned Mechanized Infantry Vehicle (MIV) 8x8 armored personnel carrier, MTU will bite off another piece of the market by saving on unification if the MIV platform is selected and the 199 series engine is installed on it.

In the Ajax project, the absence of a large-caliber gun mount is noticeable, although previously something similar had to be implemented in the SCOUT SV Direct Fire variant, on which it was planned to install an 120-mm smooth-bore gun. The Ajax family has only one option with more or less good abilities to combat armored vehicles. This is actually the Ajax version itself, armed with an 40-mm cannon, plus the dismounting calculations of the Javelin ATGM system to help it, so an ATGM launcher installed on the machine would be highly desirable.

One solution could rely on the development of General Dynamics Land Systems to meet the needs of the United States in a new lightweight tankcurrently known as Mobile Protected Firepower (MPF).

At the AUSA 2016 conference in Washington, the company showed the Griffin demonstration platform: ASCHO-2 chassis based on the Ajax project with an installed lightweight triple tower based on the IVI1A2 SEPv2 tank tower. On this demo, the 120-mm XM36С smooth-bore gun, which is a modified version of the М256 gun currently standing on all М1 Abrams series tanks, was installed.

Such a machine will fit well into the assault brigade, since it will have a more effective gun (compared to the L30A1 rifled gun of the Challenger 2 tank) on the chassis of the medium weight category, which will have a good level of uniformity with the Ajax fleet.

In the context of the concept of an adaptable and deployable assault brigade, such a platform can give this formation the necessary full-fledged firepower.

Another highly desirable development could be the installation of an ATGM, either as an additional weapon system on an existing vehicle, such as Ajax, or on a new specialized platform, as planned for the FRES SV FR (O) variant.

A good example is Germany, which successfully integrated the Israeli company Rafae Spike-LR rocket by installing a new launcher at the later stages of development, despite the fact that this was not the initial requirement. Such an additional system will significantly enhance the combat capabilities of the platform, for which the British army would be very grateful.

The first part of the article:
Ajax discovery: more about the latest family of British combat vehicles. Part of 1

Materials used:
www.gov.uk
www.thinkdefence.co.uk
www.thalesgroup.com
www.lockheedmartin.com
www.gdls.com
www.baesystems.com
www.saabgroup.com
www.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
41 comment
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  1. +1
    15 March 2017 07: 00
    The armament data is impressive, but the armor penetration of the 40-mm submunition ammunition of the 140-mm homogeneous armor raises some doubts.
    1. +5
      15 March 2017 07: 24
      Quote: inkass_98
      the armor penetration of a 40-mm sub-caliber ammunition of 140-mm homogeneous armor raises some doubts.

      So here:


      And at right angles there will generally be old tanks right through ...
      Uranium BOPS is a terrible thing.

      And yes, our industry has not yet mastered their production for small-caliber artillery ...
      1. +1
        15 March 2017 17: 47
        This is where you are going to fight the uranium bops? And then how to live there?
        1. 0
          16 March 2017 14: 40
          Quote: ibirus
          This is where you are going to fight the uranium bops? And then how to live there?

          Where the war will be there to fight. And in local conflicts, you can do with tungsten - even if it is weaker and more expensive
          1. RDX
            0
            19 March 2017 11: 38
            Elegant target for RPG-7
        2. 0
          10 August 2017 15: 20
          Quote: ibirus
          This is where you are going to fight the uranium bops? And then how to live there?

          In Yugoslavia, the United States even applied them very much, it’s all right, not on its territory ((
  2. +7
    15 March 2017 07: 19
    Thanks for the detailed review. it was interesting.

    And you can throw me slippers - but the car looks more serious than our Kurgan in many respects (well, except for the price, most likely) - at least in terms of firepower and LMS, it surpasses it.

    If we talk about our TBMP, then of course it is better protected, but the problem is the same - outdated weapons. The 30mm caliber on the BMP is surviving the last decade.
    Well, judging by the development of tank SLAs (a banal barrel curvature sensor was introduced only on Armata) and a big hemorrhoids with domestic observation devices and matrices for thermal imagers ... MDE. We really need to force our own developments; you can’t leave on French matrices anymore.
    1. 0
      15 March 2017 07: 38
      With thermal imagers and matrices, the issue has already been solved and there is a "insurance" in the form of China with their copy of the French thermal imager of very good quality.
    2. +1
      15 March 2017 08: 40
      Do not forget, this is not a BMP, it is a machine designed to replace a light tank.
      1. 0
        15 March 2017 09: 02
        Replacements of which light tank, if the Britons do not have it :-D On the basis of Ajax, a whole series, including numbers and a light tank.
        1. +1
          15 March 2017 10: 02
          Quote: CruorVult
          Replacements of which light tank, if the shaves do not have it :-D

          Really no? That's bad luck ... I believe you.
          Let's write together to the British authorities, demand that their military do not dare to dissect on non-existent machines


          https://topwar.ru/32800-yatagan-ee-velichestva-br
          itanskaya-boevaya-razvedyvatelnaya-mashina-fv107-
          scimitar.html
          1. 0
            15 March 2017 10: 15
            Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (combat reconnaissance vehicle, BRM).
            Armament: L21A1 Rarden 30mm gun, L37A1 machine gun 7,62 mm mm;
            Where is the TANK in? And I wrote about the reconnaissance machine.
            1. +1
              15 March 2017 10: 35
              Quote: CruorVult
              Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (combat reconnaissance vehicle, BRM).

              Yeah ...
              Means, Means and the British "Warrior" is not BMP, but Infantry Fighting Vehicle (infantry combat vehicle)
              By the way, if you already decided to use our term “BRM”, then you should know that the British “Yatagan” never refers to them. Since it does not have specialized reconnaissance equipment. According to our classification, it is rather a BRDM. 8)))
              1. 0
                15 March 2017 14: 27
                I don’t use anything at all, I copy from the author of the article. Infantry fighting vehicle just translates as BMP, only the words are interchanged in places Infantry fighting vehicle.
      2. 0
        15 March 2017 10: 19
        A full list of modifications and models that should be replaced in the previous article, the tanks are not visible there, though the same is true for Varrior :)
    3. +1
      15 March 2017 08: 44
      1. 40/70 advertise well, but the effectiveness has not been proved, the ammunition range is pleasing, but what choice can the projectile supply mechanism provide?
      2. Inhabited tower.
      3. High weight, catches up with tanks.
      4. Only 4 paratroopers.
      5. The complete absence of KAZ.
      6. ATGM staff no.

      The Kurgan was not accepted, while the final version could be with AU-220, they even wrote about the version of it for the BTR-82.
      1. +1
        15 March 2017 16: 12
        Quote: CruorVult

        The Kurgan was not accepted, while the final version could be with AU-220, they even wrote about the version of it for the BTR-82.

        Kurgan in the form of BMP can not carry this module for a simple and banal reason - there is no place for it in the turret compartment wassat
        Here either checkers - or go!
        Or a normal roomy troop compartment, with a normal ramp at the back - but at the same time taken out of the combat module;
        or what we have on BMP-3, when we had to pay for the power of weapons by placing ammunition just in the center of the car, in the center of the projection, in the most highly highly striking place, and with an assault landing somewhere.

        About the tale of the Burevestnik and UVZ that they have a remote combat module with a gun, a machine gun, or 200 gun shells and 2000 for a machine gun (well, all the related gadgets in the form of drives, mechanics / electronics and sensors) and at the same time they shoved it into the dimensions of the module with 30mm - I do not believe!
        this is a baloney wiring for the loot for the MO - the Petrel is so bored with shoving this gun that they go on a direct forgery, demonstrating the module without ammunition!

        Well, my favorite picture:
        So much space is occupied by only four 57mm shells! Where will the rest 196 be?

        Sapienti sat.
        1. 0
          15 March 2017 16: 55
          About the fact that a completely remote module with as many as 200 shells is a fairy tale - I agree, but is it really impossible to do at least a few dozen? Such a gun could be a much better alternative than a combination of 30mm and 100mm for BMPs, especially if a 57mm cannon was implemented with a programmable air blast of high-explosive fragmentation projectiles to combat infantry, but armor-piercing ballistics and armor penetration are the same as with old armor-piercing shells fancy NATO BMPs will be sewn like oil at the maximum range. I think that the problem with the implementation of this is the lack of a clear and intelligible task from the Ministry of Defense.
          1. +1
            15 March 2017 18: 10
            Quote: Skifotavr
            is it really impossible to do at least a few dozen?
            it’s possible, there are exactly 20 of them in the tower warhead and there are the rest in the compartment. But you must understand - this is catastrophically small!
            20 shells - this is to defeat one or two targets, no more!
            Well, with armor-piercing ballistics and armor-piercing, it’s the same as with old armor-piercing shells, any tricked out NATO BMPs will be sewn like oil at maximum range.
            Oh, if so ...
            I have to disappoint you: look at the armor penetration of 57mm UBR-281 (and at the same time when it was developed) and compare, for example, with the armor penetration of modern "silver bullets", but at least the same 25mm APFSDS-T M919. Our shell is 60 years old and causes nothing but sarcasm
            Armor-piercing UBR-281 - on the right. So what do you think?
            Technological level - the end of the 60s, armor penetration - at the same level. Discontinued 50 years ago.
            ALL! there are no more armor piercing!
            And such a blunt bump, well, it can’t in any way surpass the 30 mm projectile for 2A42.
            in secret:the myth of "immense coolness" 57mm anti-aircraft guns arose due to banal confusion - it is confused with 57mm anti-tank ZIS-2 wassat but in reality - these are two big differences, having completely different ammunition.
            But shhhhhh ... I didn’t tell you about it bully sometimes it’s so funny to read different dreamers in bursts of sewing “Tigers” right through.

            And also compare the scheme and occupancy rate of the UOR-281 case with any modern 40 or 57mm HE shell with ready-made fragments.
            Guided shells, and with air. undermining - business very distant future ... These shells are a very expensive pleasure, both on their own and requiring a significant increase in the cost of fire control components
            Even the bourgeoisie is just testing them, and then on boats!
            So all this euphoric hysteria around the old anti-aircraft guns has no real basis.
            1. +5
              15 March 2017 18: 28
              I will continue:
              Quote: Skifotavr
              I think that the problem with the implementation of this is the lack of a clear and intelligible task from the Ministry of Defense.
              So there was a task, it was! and in 2011 showed a new gun to Rogozin! 45 mm, with telescopic ammunition.
              I should have gone to Kurganets.
              Stalled ...

              Regarding the slurredness of the assignment, the problem with our MO is that the brains of the majority actually flowed into caps.
              It comes to the point that either the Taburetkins, or at least someone whom the Supreme can rely on (Shoigu), become ministers of defense, and at the same time do not care that he is not an army man, and this kitchen is unfamiliar to him. More stupidly no one to put!
              For the entire army general corps - there is not a single competent person capable of accepting the post of minister!
              Is this not evidence of the complete degradation of the generals?

              So without enthusiasts like Shamanov and Margelov - we’ll stagnate ...
            2. +1
              15 March 2017 19: 23
              Well, I tried to compare, but unfortunately I did not find reliable sources of either UBR-281U armor penetration or APFSDS-T M919. I just found that the direct shot range of the gun of the AU-220M module is one kilometer, the AZP-57 "is known for monstrous ballistics for a gun of this caliber - reach in height of more than 4 km, in range of more than 6 km. As a result, the guns were successfully used for firing at tanks, delivering significant damage to them at distances from which the tank gun could not provide a stable return fire, "and in one forum that the AZP-57 pierces 100 mm homogeneous armor from 4 kilometers with an armor-piercing projectile. I also came across an article on the same site titled "Testing of 57-mm shells with programmable fuses" began, where your activity with rudeness and trolling was observed. The scheme of shots for the 57-mm gun with the words "how are you?" something didn’t convince me much, and I still won’t believe that the armor penetration of even the old 57 mm UBR-281U and the new 30 mm subcaliber, at least from a distance of 1 km, will be the same.
              1. 0
                15 March 2017 22: 30
                Quote: Skifotavr
                I also came across an article on the same site titled "Testing of 57-mm shells with programmable fuses" began, where your activity with rudeness and trolling was observed.

                There was a reason - arguing in several branches with one stubborn “ZIS-2 gunner”, who were hit by helicopters with BMP runaway fire at 12 km, and sewed Tigers with bursts of S-60 right through.
                If you are also an apologist for this sect - I am sorry for you hi

                Regarding armor penetration - unfortunately I do not have factory data, but something is publicly available.
                Modern data is always given at a meeting angle of 60 °, and UBR-281 has only armor penetration data at a meeting angle of 0 ° (100mm) and 30 ° (80mm) - which, as you understand, is clearly not enough. For 60 ° at 1000m, you can safely take the figure of 40mm - and this is the maximum possible, with a high probability of rebound.
                That is, it is inferior to the modern American 25mm M919 (43mm per 1000m with a 60 ° meeting angle and 32mm at 2000m / 60 °)
                Why is it inferior if the numbers are about the same? because the forbidden action of a subcaliber of depleted uranium is incomparable with a simple blank.

                With 30mm even more fun: Swiss tungsten PMC303 has 47mm armor penetration per 1000m at 60 °
                American Uranium 30mm M929 - 55mm
                40mm tungsten bofors - 62mm, uranium will be even more powerful.

                still do not believe?
                And you’re doing it right, because the bourgeois APFSDS surpasses our 3UBR8 Kerner by about 2-2,5 times ...
                Kerner provides armor penetration of 28 mm at an angle of 60 ° from the normal, at a distance of 1000 m (the old caliber 3UBR6 had only 16 mm), but here's the problem:
                As knowledgeable people say - 3UBR8 needs to be mixed with BT / OF in the tape in order to serve normally.
                Well, everything is not glory to God ...
                1. +1
                  15 March 2017 23: 14
                  Quote: psiho117
                  Modern data is always given at a meeting angle of 60 °, and according to UBR-281 there is only armor penetration data at a meeting angle of 0 ° (100mm) and 30 ° (80mm) - which, as you understand, is clearly not enough. For 60 ° at 1000m, you can safely take the figure of 40mm - and this is the maximum possible, with a high probability of rebound

                  That is 4cm ... Well, I don’t know, but something tells me that something is wrong here. laughing
                2. +2
                  16 March 2017 00: 06
                  Oh, expert, look what I found on that site: http://www.sinopa.ee/pvo/pvo013/pvo13.htm
                  1. +2
                    16 March 2017 00: 35
                    And inside them there is also a bit of explosive with a fuse, which, incidentally, can be seen in the diagram you have given - this is me about the damaging effect of this "blank".
          2. +1
            16 March 2017 10: 28
            now there is a universal 57mm installation that can do anything
            from the destruction of drones at distances up to 1.5 km to the detonation of fragmentation at the desired point
            1. 0
              16 March 2017 14: 06
              but I still don’t believe in this caliber ...
              for no high-explosive shell fellow
              1. 0
                16 March 2017 15: 27
                But a thick land mine cannot boast of such a rate of fire.
        2. PAM
          +3
          15 March 2017 21: 54
          Quote: psiho117
          Well, my favorite picture:

          against the background of a pygmy or a child, the shell will look even more spectacular
  3. 0
    15 March 2017 09: 06
    As far as I understand the idea, telescopic ammunition is, first of all, a constructively convenient ammunition. But if with the sub-caliber it is still somehow something, then with all the others - just nonsense
    1. +3
      15 March 2017 13: 42
      Telescopic - almost half as long as usual. Takes less
      places, it is easier to protect from detonations. More ammunition, more compact automatic charging.
      But in production it is more complicated and much more expensive than usual.
      1. +2
        15 March 2017 15: 00
        It seems to me that this topic was generally muddied under a specific loading mechanism with rotation. But the strictly limited length of the ammunition limits its power (moreover, adding if it suddenly turns out that it is not enough is almost impossible - only replacing the entire artillery system)
      2. 0
        17 March 2017 13: 11
        Bofos normal 40x311R
        Telescope 40 * 255MM Case Telescoped
        Calculator we get that the telescope is 81,9935691318328% of the total length.
        Will it sound "almost half as long as usual"?
    2. +2
      15 March 2017 18: 54
      Quote: pimen
      As far as I understand the idea, telescopic ammunition is, first of all, a constructively convenient ammunition.

      Telescopic ammunition is a way to increase power, allowing you to stay in acceptable shot sizes.
      That is, the principle works - 30x165mm turns into 40x165mm,
      35mm Bushmaster III is being upgraded in 50mm and in dimensions 40mm Bofors liners - this will already be 60mm telescopic

      As a result, the dimensions of the ammunition shell and the ammunition supply system still operate with a standard size of 165 mm liners, while the gun becomes more powerful. The tower and ammunition are old - the gun and ammunition are new. Conveniently!

      The British went a slightly different way - they did not become attached to the existing sleeve, with the prospect of replacing the telescopic one - this is an original development, and it has a size of 40x225x60mm, i.e. it is wider than it should have been (in the picture - the far right), hence and BOPS power exceeding 40mm Bofors.
      In general, they made the original new ammunition, not relying on existing ones.
      We are not so rich bully
      Therefore, we should be closer to the path of the USA / Germany / Netherlands (and they know how to count money), who are going to introduce new ammunition, relying on the size of the old cartridge case - this is cheaper and does not require any special alteration of the fighting compartment.
      In addition, this allows you to use the “train 30mm, fight 40mm” program, and by simple manipulations - use cheap old ammunition for training firing.
      1. +2
        15 March 2017 19: 05
        if you take two ammunition, one caliber and one total length (excluding, excluding, distributed in the diameter of the sleeve), then, theoretically, traditional, can always add more.
        Quantitatively, more telescopic
        1. 0
          15 March 2017 21: 24
          yes, the “classic” ammunition is more powerful: as I can see from the picture I have given, the 40mm telescope is even inferior to the classic 35mm hitch — 260g against 360g, but the trick is that it does not need to be compared with the classic 40mm Bofors, it replaces 30mm shells. And he surpasses those on the same 100g of a charge portion - 260 g against 160 g.
          In general, if you want "power" - then you need 40-57mm classic ammunition (but forget about the remote combat module).
          If you need to stay in the dimensions of 30-35mm gun turrets, then only telescopic ammunition.
          1. +1
            17 March 2017 13: 27
            I DO NOT BELIEVE to come up with a UVZ fairy tale about 200 shells, and then proudly declare it, although a full-fledged non-remote module with 20 + 70 shells is disassembled on an old official poster.

            Telescopes' desire to reduce the length of the shot is mainly dictated by the principle of operation of the gun itself, since with a long projectile the radius of the rotary mechanism increases.

            "As a result, the ammunition dimensions and the ammunition supply system continue to operate with a standard size of 165 mm liners, while the gun becomes more powerful. The turret and ammunition are old - the gun and ammunition are new. Convenient!" - crap, because the old 25-30 mm guns were stranded another principle for supplying shells from the word in general.

            According to your logic, UVZ bred 57 mm garbage, but all CTX CTASs are really pure water, we recall the joke "And suddenly he says to me:" At our club it’s custom for gentlemen to take a word! "And then I got lucky! lucky "

            Directly sect "Witnesses of telescopic ammunition" by golly.

            "In general, if you want" power "- then you need 40-57mm classic ammunition (but forget about the remote combat module)." - at the same time, Ajax has a huge double tower, the guys obviously remained in the old dimensions :-D
  4. BAI
    0
    17 March 2017 13: 46
    All is well, but the APEX padlock is impressive! I already cut 4 pieces with a grinder - it freezes in winter, rusts and wedges in summer.
  5. 0
    9 February 2018 14: 18
    + + + + + + + + + +
  6. 0
    23 August 2019 14: 25
    The cost of telescopic shots is such that it’s cheaper to get a regular 57mm to equip a semi-active laser seeker without exception))))))


    Yes, the reliability of this whole system "corresponding gun + telescopic cartridge" will simply be awful. And in the conditions of a big war, the quality of production will still fall.
    Therefore, the Russian Ministry of Defense essentially rejected the 45 mm telescope.


    In 57-mm caliber, you can make shells with remote detonation, fragmentation-beam, guided missile against UAVs / helicopters with a guidance system in the "laser path". In 40-45 mm caliber, such shells are ineffective. And the reach in height for calibers 40-45 is small. Therefore, into their furnace!
  7. 0
    7 January 2023 20: 15
    All over the world, there is a noticeable trend aimed at increasing the caliber of automatic guns of the BMP.
    In 2011, information appeared about the development in Russia of a new 45 mm gun and telescopic ammunition for it. The gun lit up at the exhibition of the plant. Degtyarev in the city of Kovrov. There was also a story on the Russia 1 TV channel about the development of this gun. But apparently this gun remained an unfulfilled prospect.