Tricky comments. Ukraine's air defense update: 2х2 = 7, but still not enough

51


Acting President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko said he intends to restore the country's air defense system. And even allocate money for it. Whole 9 billion hryvnia. And, according to Poroshenko, the air defense system is in "unconditional priority".



Before discussing the question "Where is the money, Zin?" historical excursion to all the same 25 years ago.

In the inheritance from the Soviet Union, Ukraine got the 132 anti-aircraft missile division. It was quite enough to consider the main objects of the country protected.

Kiev also had C-200 air defense systems, even about thirty C-300 complexes. Plus seventy Buk medium range air defense systems.

And everything was beautiful in general. Air defense from the Ukraine was.

But time passed. Probably strange, but the complexes began to require repair. Missiles gradually began to expire. And in the beginning of 2000-x in Ukraine, they began to understand that something must be done. And preferably quickly.

But another staged Moscow. Modern air defense systems Russia has never sold to anyone. And Ukraine, with its flirtations with the West, exactly flew into this category.

Finally, the idea of ​​buying air defense systems was buried by Ukraine in 2008. When it surfaced that besides tanks, guns and helicopters, Ukraine sold to Georgia and several Buk air defense systems.

According to experts, it was from these “Bukovs” that four Russian military aircraft were shot down: three Su-25 attack planes and one Tu-22 bomber.

More to the sale of modern weapons in Russia, no one returned, and the air defense system of Ukraine simply began to fall apart at an accelerated pace.

What is the air defense system of Ukraine today?

Today it is 11 really functioning complexes C-300 and about sixty "Bukov". With titanic efforts, the Ukrainian military conducted a modernization of two dozen C-125 Pechora-2D.

But 30 kilometers C-125 is nothing compared to 300 kilometers C-200. And C-200 is all ... in the past. And according to the available information, C-300 will also go into the “already all” category.

The situation is such that today Ukraine does not have an air defense system. Well, no offense, the industrial center of Russia, the city of Voronezh, where I live, covers X-NUMX C-12 complexes from air problems. That is more than the whole of Ukraine.

What to do?

Of course, there is some hope for America and their “Patriots”. And, perhaps, the United States would even be happy to place its air defense / missile defense installations near our borders. This is without a doubt the blue dream of American hawks.

But there are nuances ...

The question is: is Washington going to worsen relations with Moscow? The fact that this will be perceived by Russia as a direct threat to the country's security is a fact. And not the fact that the deterioration will be worth it.

And the second component. Yes, the one that Trump was talking about. This is money.

We return to the amount sounded in 9 billion hryvnia. What can I afford to buy with this money? Applying a calculator, we get from 9 billion hryvnia as much as 300 million dollars. About.

How much does Ukraine need the Patriots? Probably at a minimum of at least a dozen. And rockets.

How much is fat now?

If approximately, starting from the approximate prices in open sources, one battery of “Patriots” would cost Turkey 2015 a year in 600 million. The Turks were going to buy 13 batteries for 7,8 billion dollars.

So alas, but Kiev can afford half the battery. Is it possible to do this, hard to say. After all, the battery is not only launchers, a radar of guidance, a command post, a communications center, a TZM, etc. are also attached to them, according to the list. And besides PU, the missiles themselves are also needed. And the PAC-2 and PAC-3 rockets cost from $ 4 million to $ 6 million apiece ...

So you need 6-7 billion dollars. Not hryvnia.

And the second nuance. No less serious than cash. This is a question of the reliability of Ukraine as a partner in such games.

Counterbattering systems have already been installed. Yes, thank you, everyone liked it, they learned a lot in Russia in this topic, having studied it.

If Poroshenko, of course, finds such arguments that will force the Americans to believe that after some time someone else will not take his place, or the complexes simply will not “push” to the “other” side - then maybe something will grow together as a handout or loan.

And so - a very dubious prospect, to give the "Patriots" of Russia.

And, by the way, such thoughts not only appear in the Russian head. In the United States, too, sometimes not only eat. In early February, The Wall Street Journal reported that “NATO has postponed plans for a meeting with the Kiev authorities for negotiations on the use of a missile defense system in Europe.”

According to American journalists, "there is some political delicacy" in working with Ukraine, as this may cause an overreaction by Russia.

Is it a polite promise, or did it seem so to me?

They don’t take NATO, to become part of the European missile defense system, Ukraine doesn’t have any light either.

What remains? That's right, create your own. How they created the attack helicopter based on the Mi-2, how they created Oplot, Azov, and everything else.

Air defense is needed, but there is no money. Not at all. Of the required 7 billion, there are 300 million dollars, which means what should be done? That's right, you just need to steal this money, cut it, and bungle something “Azov-like” on the remains.

And everyone will be overwhelmed by the sight at the parade of some of the latest purely Ukrainian air defense system.

Unless, of course, succeed. The plants are getting worse and worse, day by day.

And then, well, even if it burns heavily, how can one Patriot battery help? If it burns a lot, one battery from the VKS of the aggressor country will not fight back.

That is the meaning of a fuss?
51 comment
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  1. +23
    1 March 2017 15: 08
    It seems to me that Poroshenko’s words about the rearmament of the Armed Forces of Ukraine shouldn’t be paid any attention to, with the same success he could say that Antonov Design Bureau will launch a 6th generation fighter in a series in a month
    1. +4
      1 March 2017 15: 21
      And that in Ukraine there are no other problems? laughing
      1. +10
        1 March 2017 16: 05
        Wend: And that in Ukraine there are no other problems? laughing

        Leave, dear Vendyour jokes. There is no time for jokes. Ukraine and Russia are in a hard serious war. In Donbas - over there, according to Klimkin, more than 2000 tanks are already concentrated. Every day, thousands of Russian strategic bombers raid Nenko laughing
        And if, without jokes, then your question can be answered as follows: Apparently, apart from the topic of reconstructing air defense, everything else has already been cut
        1. +1
          2 March 2017 16: 45
          Quote: Rich
          Ukraine and Russia are in a hard serious war.


          Zdroscalite healthy. The ruin is waging with Russia not only a victorious armed war, but also, deciding to permanently conquer nasty Russia, decides to declare an economic war on it.
          1. 0
            3 March 2017 15: 08
            So long gone. Let our beloved banks get a little sad.
      2. +1
        1 March 2017 19: 05
        Quote: Wend
        And that in Ukraine there are no other problems? laughing

        Poroshenko needs victories, and if they do not need to replace the victory with news of a sensational level. That is, each news should distract from the sad state of the country, theft, nepotism, problems.
      3. 0
        1 March 2017 22: 39
        Quote: Wend
        And that in Ukraine there are no other problems?


        Yes, there appeared one small one, but it seems - they will destroy:
    2. +1
      1 March 2017 15: 53
      Or will release 15 new Mriy))))
      1. +5
        1 March 2017 16: 22
        Quote: twincam
        Or will release 15 new Mriy))))

        The entire population of Ukraine will be planted in them and will fly away to the country where milk rivers flow with jelly banks. laughing
        1. +4
          1 March 2017 18: 58
          And there you look, over time a new sea will be dug and healed humanly laughing
      2. +6
        1 March 2017 20: 48
        Mriy did in Tashkent and Ulyanovsk. In Tashkent, it’s still 25 years along the wall of the center section of Mriy’s - it seems 8 pieces. No one needs it. If necessary, I will present the pictures.
    3. 0
      1 March 2017 19: 54
      I think Antonov will not release even 4 generations, where there, even 3.
      1. +1
        4 March 2017 09: 52
        the only thing that can release Antonov is the spirit
    4. 0
      3 March 2017 15: 05
      And he hasn’t said this yet, are you sure? So soon he will say. Ukrainians collect and use our statements, noticed repeatedly. There are no brains. But they know how to parrot ...
  2. +4
    1 March 2017 15: 25
    the city of Voronezh, where I live, is covering from the air problems of 12 C-300 complexes
    Holy prophets! 12 complexes? C-300? Voronezh more Peter chtol?
    There may be three complexes (One anti-aircraft missile regiment: 3 battalion for 4 PU) - eh?
    1. +2
      1 March 2017 15: 52
      Does Peter have a border with Ukraine?
      1. +4
        1 March 2017 16: 13
        Quote: twincam
        Does Peter have a border with Ukraine?

        Peter has more than 5 million people. And the border with the country of NATO is 135 kilometers.
        So on concrete A-120 will always be someone to ride. And on the towers at Reshetnikovo - who should stand. smile
    2. 0
      1 March 2017 16: 22
      Well, I don’t know 12 -1 for sure
      1. +2
        1 March 2017 23: 26
        Quote: Charik
        Well, I don’t know 12 -1 for sure

        12 what is there? Complexes? Ah, how so?
        Let’s arrange a seminar on the staff list of air defense units. We’ll also invite the author. In order to already learn to distinguish the complex from the starting unit. And then the author of the 5P85C launchers calculated - it turned out 12 pieces for the whole of Voronezh. And I decided that this is the "complexes".
        1. 0
          2 March 2017 03: 38
          NOT, ONE COMPLEX EXACTLY, BUT 12 I ALSO DOUBT WHAT TO FIND
        2. 0
          2 March 2017 05: 34
          not for the whole of Voronezh, why 12 complexes in the region, then yes 12 maybe there are
        3. +3
          2 March 2017 10: 28
          Quote: Alex_59
          In order to already learn to distinguish the complex from the starting unit.

          And the divisions are from PU. smile
    3. +4
      1 March 2017 16: 56
      Lies designed for amateurs.
    4. +1
      2 March 2017 17: 43
      Quote: Alex_59
      There may be three complexes (One anti-aircraft missile regiment: 3 battalion for 4 PU) - eh?

      Uncle, are you not a spy?
  3. +2
    1 March 2017 15: 48
    Matches are not toys for fools. Two already shot down civilian liners and hundreds of dead have already played enough in the unearthly nenko. Basta karapuziki, only catapults. In addition, they have already been tested, there is experience.
  4. 0
    1 March 2017 15: 51
    Hello from Belgorod !! )))
    Good article, thanks.
    Let's see how the meeting of GDP and Trump takes place.
  5. +4
    1 March 2017 15: 52
    And the author’s fun makes me happy - the more hats the better.
    Especially the example with Turkey, why not buy in China? Analogs With 300, is it easier and easier to master with them?
    Although if the beeches shot down in the sky 4 aircraft is success? By appointment worked.
    It is difficult to say what will happen (this is Ukraine), but if they find this money they can count on maintaining air defense and
    ЗР-27 with 80К6М for Beech
    Stiletto Way, Keeping With 300 Ready.
    In general, it makes no sense to oppose the article, where the main thing is ...
    1. +4
      1 March 2017 16: 43
      Quote: Catherine II
      Especially the example with Turkey, why not buy in China?

      Keyword - buy.
      Moreover, China, for some reason, after a loan of 3 billion, is very distrustful of Ukraine.
      Quote: Catherine II
      Although if the beeches shot down in the sky 4 aircraft is success? By appointment worked.

      On the account of the "Buk" 4, and 1 or 2 boards.
      2 or 3 downed Su-25s are friendly fire. 2 or 1 downed Su-25 - Georgian Air Defense Forces.
      So, Bukov allegedly has Tu-22M3 and Su-24M. And then for the "carcass" claims "Wasp."
      1. +2
        1 March 2017 17: 00
        Quote: Alexey RA
        China, after a loan of 3 billion for some reason, is very distrustful of Ukraine

        these 3 billion (if any) will not prevent you from selling anything, most importantly money ahead.
        But the Patriots is a long topic of coordination, payment and development (which is worse than analogues with 300)
        But the option is if rockets are ordered in China? Here I have no information whether a trick is possible.
        About
        Quote: Alexey RA
        On the account of the "Buk" 4, and 1 or 2 boards.

        taken
        Quote: Author: Roman Skomorokhov
        According to experts, it was from these “Bukovs” that four Russian military aircraft were shot down: three Su-25 attack planes and one Tu-22 bomber.
        1. +6
          1 March 2017 17: 23
          Quote: Catherine II
          these 3 billion (if any) will not hinder the sale of anythingmoney ahead.

          That's it. smile
          Quote: Catherine II
          taken

          Duc ... this is according to officially smoothed statistics. But in fact, based on an analysis of open sources, for the same Su-25, the percentage of friendly fire went off scale. There were memories of our Su-25 pilot: while approaching Tskhinvali, everyone who could could shoot from the ground over our territory, and the traces of MANPADS resembled a birch grove. Army air defense at the level of MANPADS and MZA interaction with the Air Force failed by all 146%. sad
          It’s good that our “Tunguska” and “Buki” didn’t shoot in their own way - at least at this level some system worked.
      2. 0
        3 March 2017 10: 09
        I think Osa wouldn’t get Tushkan
  6. +4
    1 March 2017 16: 28
    Quote: Catherine II

    In general, it makes no sense to oppose the article, where the main thing is ...

    We have such a trend ... Many still think that the APU was stuck in 2014. The disappointment will be deafening and very bloody.
    1. +2
      1 March 2017 17: 09
      Quote: libivs
      The disappointment will be deafening and very bloody.

      maybe this is especially so?
      1. +2
        1 March 2017 18: 10
        And who knows? The traditions of hat-making with us are very extensive and rich. Moreover, many really want to believe that everything goes according to a very cunning plan, a very cunning person, without going into particularly where and what it leads to ....
    2. +5
      1 March 2017 23: 22
      Quote: libivs
      Many still think that the APU is stuck in 2014.

      APU stuck in 1991 year.
  7. +3
    1 March 2017 16: 44
    Something can be bought up in the Warsaw Pact countries. plus to finalize. Old missiles for zrk can be upgraded.
    1. 0
      1 March 2017 23: 46
      Something can be bought up in the Warsaw Pact countries. plus to finalize. Old missiles for zrk can be upgraded - The Warsaw Pact has not been around for 25 years, they are endless there, besides, do you think that they don’t know how to trade? Old rockets also need to be taken somewhere, there’s no talk about modernization ...
  8. 0
    1 March 2017 18: 15
    Like a fish needs a bicycle?
  9. 0
    1 March 2017 19: 45
    Where does the author get such accurate information on the composition of the air defense of Ukraine? The technical composition? According to the idea, this may be known to: the Air Defense Commander, head of the General Staff, maybe a couple more people in the leadership and the Supreme Commander of Ukraine. My friend who are you?
    1. +7
      1 March 2017 20: 25
      Quote: Herman 4223
      Where does the author get such accurate information on the composition of the air defense of Ukraine? The technical composition? According to the idea, this may be known to: the Air Defense Commander, head of the General Staff, maybe a couple more people in the leadership and the Supreme Commander of Ukraine. My friend who are you?

      Well, what kind of nonsense are you talking about. The air defense system of today's Ukraine has its roots in the USSR. What was then deployed on the territory of the Ukrainian SSR is already known to be authentic, down to individual units. It’s also not a secret what happened to the units and subunits of the Air Defense Forces during the time of Independence, since the air defense systems, all of these S-200, S-300, and Buk’s, were developed by the Design Bureau and produced by factories located now in the territory of the Russian Federation and, until recently, ours The specialists carried out engineering support of all this "good", just as their specialists "accompanied" our Voyevoda intercontinental complexes. So, do not put a shadow on the wattle fence ...
      1. +1
        2 March 2017 04: 33
        After the collapse of the USSR, Ukraine got 30 divisions with 300, and 18 divisions (the author has 60 now written) beech. I do not know about engineering support by our specialists, until recently they wanted to put the army there, from 2000 to 2013, 6 divisions were repaired with 300 half of we got them in the Crimea. Any equipment if you wish, and specialists can be repaired, at the very least poor but put into operation. Even such rubbish as c125, or maybe c75 is returned to the system. We won’t be shown everything, and how many and what exact data was returned they won’t say, and they won’t let our specialists see. How did the author know that now it’s 11 s300 complexes on duty, and not 3 or 14. The beech complexes are unlikely to be more than 10, but not like 60 (if you only count the launchers and it’s unlikely l).
        1. +3
          2 March 2017 10: 35
          Quote: Herman 4223
          Any equipment if there is a desire, and specialists can be repaired, but poorly poorly, but put into operation.

          Only here the SAM - this is not a tank, then cleaning the rust and tinting is not enough. "At the very least" with the same radar and equipment will not work.
          Quote: Herman 4223
          Even such rubbish as c125, and maybe c75, is back in operation.

          This is just an indicator of the state of affairs in air defense - if instead of restoring modern air defense systems, such exhibits begin to be commissioned.
          1. 0
            2 March 2017 17: 34
            There is no speech that the condition is wonderful. Rather, it is even worse. According to open sources of information for 2015, there were 7 s300 complexes in good condition, of which 30 they got, beech complexes were originally 18, and according to the author it turns out that Now there are 11 s300 complexes and 60 buk. After these numbers, I didn’t like the article. It’s just a story on a fashionable topic, without the comments of real experts on this topic. As for the possibility of repair, a couple of engineers in a 40-million country can buy spare parts through third countries (Old Man will probably sell opportunities). I would like a comment by a real specialist on this issue, it would be much more interesting.
    2. 0
      2 March 2017 01: 37
      Commas must also be set, my friend. At least try to bet.
      In essence. You understand that the special services look through Ukraine through. Everyone knows that even Nadia is Putin’s agent. But what is Savchenko - himself ... But ask yourself.
    3. +2
      2 March 2017 11: 29
      Herman, why do you call such terrible posts? In this non-state, the most important position is the DROP all-seeing. There is nothing more there. The High Gavnokommandirny they have! But what kind of ghoul does not anyone know. And just do 404 side.
  10. +2
    2 March 2017 03: 59
    Of all the world “coups”, only Pinochet pulled the country out of the pit. The rest wanted the best. But it turned out with the exact opposite.
  11. +2
    2 March 2017 06: 59
    Dear author, not right. laughing

    Poroshenko may receive 6-7 billion dollars. He just needs to sell all Ukrainian land to Monsanto; the latter has a net profit of more than $ 2 billion per year; she will pull. laughing

    The question of the safety of the “Patriots” from theft and resale to undesirable elements (represented by LDNR - Russia) was decided by the Molgol khagans: laughing

    1. Guantanamo expands 10 times.
    2. The children of Poroshenko, the offspring of Groysman, Yatsenyuk and other Parasyuk-Semenchenko are taken hostage and placed there. laughing

    The expansion of the prison is necessary, because there will be many hostages - up to relatives of the junior command personnel laughing , because they can steal.
    1. 0
      3 March 2017 15: 42
      Good joke. So a quarter of the population of Ukraine should be taken hostage. Their bosses are changing rapidly. Who is Semenchenko, who is Parasyuk a year and a half ago? Clowns. And now, Poroshenko and Groysman scratch them, but they do not dare to seriously touch
  12. 0
    2 March 2017 11: 49
    It is necessary to fool the people with something.
  13. +1
    2 March 2017 12: 33
    Volunteer battalions. Give slingshots and set them along the non-fallow border. And the money will be intact and the sky not green will be locked. laughing
  14. +2
    2 March 2017 15: 31
    I can offer for ukrov inexpensive and easily renewable weapons with endless ammunition!
    This MANPADS is called simply and intelligibly - "Slingshot" and can be in the ammunition of every true Svidomo patriot!
    If 500-700 “cyborgs” are shot at the same time, then, given a favorable set of circumstances, they can even scratch the paint from the tank of the DNI so that morale and morale of the DNR will drop sharply from this sight!
    And with the next "debalscope-like" boilers, when there is absolutely nothing to eat, the "Slingshot" MANPADS can help a lot in getting flying game ...
    Long live the Slingshot MANPADS - the top of the defense-technical thought of the independent Banderlog! belay