Military Review

British destroyer in the Black Sea

77



Black Sea units fleet acquaintance with one of the most advanced warships of our time is coming soon.

According to reports of Western news agencies, the destroyer HMS Diamond headed for the shores of Ukraine.

HMS (Her Majesty's Ship, Her Majesty's Ship) is the standard prefix of the British Navy ships

The destroyer “Diamond” was laid in 2005, launched in 2007 and commissioned in 2011 year.

The cost of construction of the ship, according to official data, amounted to over one billion pounds, which made the “Diamond” the most expensive destroyer in the world stories. It was only in 2016 that the superiority in this dubious achievement passed to the American “Zamvalt”.



Like its sisterschips (Daring, Dauntless, Dragon, Duncan and Defender), HMS Diamond belongs to the 45 Type Daring (“Brave”) squadron destroyers. The construction of the series was carried out over the years 10, from 2003 to 2013.

A remarkable feature of the six “Brave” is lack of strike weapons. The destroyers of the new generation are created solely for protection, primarily against air threats.

And in this concept there is nothing shameful. Cruise missiles can be launched by any class ship from a riverboat. But for the implementation of the interception of the air target (to detect, calculate the trajectory and send missiles a hundred kilometers from the ship) requires a whole destroyer.

Being a marine air defense platform, Diamond serves as a command post, coordinating actions aviation and air defense operational naval units.

British destroyer in the Black Sea

Radar centimeter range SAMPSON, made by technology AFAR


The strength of the destroyer is in his radars.

The first scans the entire space, up to near space.

The second one constantly looks at the horizon, fearing the appearance of low-flying aircraft and rockets.

If a threat is detected, the radar goes into combat mode, programming the autopilots of anti-aircraft missiles, trying to bring them as close as possible to the chosen target.

Additional radars for illumination by the British are not required: his missiles are equipped with active homing heads (they are activated at the final segment).



The main ammunition - 48 launchers for Aster anti-aircraft missiles. Existing modifications have a range of 120 km and a march speed of 4,5M. The missiles are equipped with vector thrust and are able to maneuver with overload up to 60 units.

Compared to the shipboard C-300FM missiles, British missiles have worse energy characteristics. Nevertheless, the “Astra” is more compact, has a smaller starting weight in 4, is superior in maneuverability and equipped with an active seeker with all the attendant advantages (and disadvantages).


Aster rocket and SAMPSON radar, already installed on the destroyer foremast


The next generation of British SAMs promises to be able to accelerate to seven speeds of sound and hit targets outside the Earth’s atmosphere. At the very least, the capabilities of destroyer detection tools allow you to do it now.

Like any large warship, the destroyer Type 45 has moderate versatility. For example, on board is installed the American system of electronic intelligence AN / SSQ-130.

Provided for the permanent basing of the helicopter, also reserved space for a mobile hospital and a platoon of marines.

The destroyer is equipped with a new SSTD anti-torpedo protection system based on a towed low-frequency antenna (threat detection), a pair of towed “rattles” and 16 shooting acoustic simulators to deceive self-directed torpedoes of the enemy.


HMS Dragon - Her Majesty's Battle Dragon


Those who point to the weakness of the “Derring” weapons, usually do not take into account that modern NATO ships are underloaded to reduce the extra costs in peacetime.

In the event of a situation, even remotely threatening a conflict, a lot of additional weapons will be installed on the “Daring”, if sailors wish. For example, in a number of sources, two sections of the CIP (16 launching shafts) for “Tomahawks” are mentioned.

However, Royal Navy has much more efficient carriers for cruise missiles - seven nuclear submarines of the Trafalgar and Astyut type (new, fourth generation).



And the surface ships have their own clearly defined task. Air Defense.

The technical level “DERING” is of particular interest.

Shortened crew - total 190-200 people, which is surprisingly small for a ship of this level. For example, the crews of domestic BOD and American Aegis destroyers are twice as large in number.

The multifunctional mast is a high dark construction in the middle part of the destroyer, combining sensors and antennas of receiving and transmitting devices.



Combined power plant with all-electric transmission.

Full speed engines - two Rolls-Royce WR-21 gas turbines, based on engines of civil airliners.

Cruising course - a pair of ship diesel engines of the Finnish company “Vyartsilya”.

Transmission (Full Electric Propulsion, FEP) eliminates the mechanical connection between the power plant and the propellers.

This reduces the length of the propeller shafts and removes restrictions on the choice of layout compartments and equipment placement.

Among other advantages - less vibration of the body, positively affecting the operation of sonars and other sensitive sensors.

In the future, an efficient distribution of energy resources and (depending on the task) the ability to redirect all energy to one specific consumer.

Additional cooling of the working fluid and exhaust gas recovery system have a positive effect on the efficiency of the installation. With a full supply of 1100 tons of fuel, the destroyer is able to cross the ocean twice. Of course, only in theory. In practice, warships are forbidden to go with empty tanks; as soon as the fuel level drops to 50%, as a rule, mandatory refueling follows.



Destroyers Type 45 make a good impression thanks to the innovative design, competent selection of weapons and good taste of designers.

HMS Diamond’s Black Sea visit will please the press, but is unlikely to be useful for gathering technical information. All information on this ship can be obtained from numerous contractors around the world. Measure the "field" and the working frequency of the RTS, our sailors could meet in the English Channel, because the destroyers of this type regularly enter the "honorary escort" of our ships.

It remains to hope that the noble lines of “Diamond” will be able to kindle a healthy envy among those who, in rank and rank, are supposed to think about rearming the Russian fleet.

Just as many years ago, the Minister of Defense of Great Britain flew in a helicopter to admire a Soviet nuclear cruiser sailing in the ocean.

Author:
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  1. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 31 January 2017 06: 50
    +9
    “Hey, Russians, there our destroyer will come to you in the Black Sea soon. But only you don’t scare him very much and don’t be afraid - he’s underloaded and doesn’t pose any danger winked And do not follow him, please, his technical data, the fields there are different and the radar data will not be of interest to you. Yes, and why do you need them? what Like the world after all fellow Zaaaato, Kisun, evaluate his outfit and vidon! And we invite you to take a look and envy! But current so that with your mouth open wassat "
    So what? wink laughing
  2. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 31 January 2017 07: 01
    +9
    "noble lines of" Diamond ""

    Well, what else lines might be the destroyer of Her Majesty? Of course, noble. yes
    1. Santa Fe
      31 January 2017 07: 15
      +6
      Quote: Vladimirets
      Well, what else lines might be the destroyer of Her Majesty? Of course, noble.

      The ship is stately, beautiful









      Like a real yacht
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 31 January 2017 07: 18
        +6
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        The ship is stately, beautiful

        Oleg, each ship is beautiful in its own way, smiles at your pathos with respect to the British fleet. yes
        1. KaPToC
          KaPToC 31 January 2017 21: 43
          +1
          Quote: Vladimirets
          smiles at your pathos regarding the British fleet

          Well, well, after all, the British came up with dreadnoughts ... only for that they are worthy of respect ... Oleg.
      2. Lelek
        Lelek 31 January 2017 09: 04
        +6
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Like a real yacht


        We will shed tears during a torpedo attack, a beautiful bird is a pity. crying
        1. AUL
          AUL 31 January 2017 12: 34
          +3
          Lelek, and for what time did you plan a torpedo attack? I will come to watch!
          1. Lelek
            Lelek 31 January 2017 16: 49
            0
            Quote: AUL
            Lelek, and for what time did you plan a torpedo attack?


            As soon as possible. I’ll throw off the time “U” in PM. bully
  3. Serg65
    Serg65 31 January 2017 07: 04
    +10
    A notable feature of the six “Brave” is the lack of shock weapons. The new generation destroyers are designed exclusively for protection, primarily from airborne threats.

    For an island nation, a percent 80 dependent on shipments from outside is a very actual ship.
    It remains to hope that the noble lines of “Diamond” will be able to kindle a healthy envy among those who, in rank and rank, are supposed to think about rearming the Russian fleet.

    Here, Oleg, I agree with you, but those on whom it depends are very limited by the capabilities of industry and the country's economy. The fleet is a very expensive toy. In my opinion, the modern fleet plays the role of a deterrent, whether there will be a big war and what it will not be known to anyone, But what role the fleet will play in a future war is such a vague topic that no one can conceptually draw it! In the military doctrine of the USSR, the fleet was given the fight against the NATO convoys (for which defense “Diamond” was made), aircraft carriers and strategic nuclear submarines, hence the strong development of Soviet anti-ship missiles and the operational designation of their carriers. What is the marine doctrine of modern Russia? It seems to me that the guys with the spiders on their shoulders have not yet reached a "consensus." Making strike ships - for what? Iskander and Caliber land-based much cheaper to fire at the coast of the enemy? What enemy is not within our reach of the ground forces? laughing Well, if only the USA! But the width of the Bering Strait is only 86 kilometers and the march of one of the regiments of the 14 Army on foot in two days to Rotman Island debunked the myth of the inaccessibility of the United States.
    On foot - in two days, and on technology - a fly! We would only catch on the shore ... And there on the highway through Canada - to Washington itself, only three thousand miles. With the support of aviation, with the supply by rail, with our fighting spirit! We would only take care ...


    So the same question begs - what kind of ships do we need? Convoys with a bunch of anti-aircraft missiles or drums with a bunch of anti-ship missiles? That’s such a thing, my friend bully
    1. novel66
      novel66 31 January 2017 07: 18
      +3
      dilemma, colleague. Of course, armored gunboats, they have already decided everything!
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 31 January 2017 07: 24
        +3
        Quote: novel xnumx
        Of course, armored gunboats, they have already decided everything!

        laughing Well, probably as an option - yes! Only ice-breaker type and beautiful as yachts!
        1. novel66
          novel66 31 January 2017 07: 26
          +4
          and hydrofoil
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 31 January 2017 07: 31
            +4
            bully There you flyers. without wings, well, not like !!!! Armored gunboat of the icebreaking type. beautiful as a yacht and hydrofoil ??? Brute force, Roma, brute force wink
            1. novel66
              novel66 31 January 2017 07: 42
              +2
              on the contrary, my friend is an example of an ideal ship, it’s even more colorful to paint, so that the opponents' roof is torn down
              1. saturn.mmm
                saturn.mmm 31 January 2017 11: 36
                +1
                Quote: novel xnumx
                paint more popsychedelichnoe so that the opponents tore off the roof

                We have already worked out the sketch, on a distant cannon.
    2. 3danimal
      3danimal 1 February 2017 07: 00
      +1
      Quote: Serg65
      On foot - in two days, and on technology - a fly! We would only catch on the shore ... And there on the highway through Canada - to Washington itself, only three thousand miles. With the support of aviation, with the supply by rail, with our fighting spirit! We would only take care ...

      Dreamers, right! (However, these are not taken into the leadership of the aircraft)
      "With the support of aviation." How long will it last, this support? With .. a thirty-fold advantage in aviation and the most powerful ground-based air defense (google "NORAD") of the newly-formed enemy?
      The network of roads there is very well developed. Read about the strength and technical equipment of the US Armed Forces. They will very quickly transfer ground forces there and, when dominated by the air, will drop the aggressor into the strait.
      But most importantly, why would Russia invade US territory? What will it give us, what benefit will be obtained, except for the stigma of the aggressor and the subsequent isolation and embargo? (Do not rely on China - yes, he will buy hydrocarbons, but for nothing, without losing his profit)
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 1 February 2017 10: 08
        +5
        Quote: 3danimal
        Dreamers, right! (However, these are not taken into the leadership of the aircraft)

        bully Yeah, dreamers! Especially the Minister of Defense - he is also a dreamer laughing . After all, he said. that by 2018, a coastal defense division will be formed in Chukotka (Karl !!!!). Why do we need a division in Chukotka? And why restore the airfield in Anadyr, then the military airfield was used by the Union to jump and base fighters!
        Quote: 3danimal
        "With the support of aviation." How long will it last, this support? With .. a thirty-fold advantage in aviation and the most powerful ground-based air defense (google "NORAD") of the newly-formed enemy?

        My dear. google "Desert Storm" and what happened to Iraqi air defense! And who prevents the videoconferencing from doing the same? Especially since the nearest US Air Force base is already near Anchorage (Elmendorf with the 11 Air Force of the US Air Force and the NORAD Alaska Zone. Next door to Fort Richardson is the 4 Airborne Brigade Tactical Group of the American 25 Infantry Division.)
        Quote: 3danimal
        google "NORAD"

        And what remains of that NORAD except for the radar stations and aviation?
        Quote: 3danimal
        The network of roads there is very well developed. Read about the strength and technical equipment of the US Armed Forces. They will very quickly transfer ground forces there and, when dominated by the air, will drop the aggressor into the strait.

        Ready-made airfields in Wales and Tin City provide great opportunities for the airborne forces and air defense forces bully
        Quote: 3danimal
        But most importantly, why would Russia invade US territory?

        belay And who told you that the Russian Federation will act as an aggressor? An invasion should only be considered a retaliatory measure!
        Quote: 3danimal
        What benefits will be gained besides the stigma of the aggressor and subsequent isolation and embargo?

        Oh, I beg you, Russia has been living under sanctions and embargoes periodically since the time of Peter. So what?
        By the way, Soviet-Russian troops in Chukotka were based from 1945 to 2001
        After the disbandment of the 14 Airborne Army, the 99 Motor Rifle Division was stationed there to cover the deployment of the Pioneer PGRK (RSD-10 or SS-20, as you wish). The RSD-10 strike zone included the American radar station Clear of the Beamyus Missile Attack Warning System (SPRN) in Alaska, the Cobra Dane SPRN radar station on Shemiya Island, the Parks North Dakota SPRN radar station, as well as the nuclear missile base U.S. Navy submarines Bangor near Seattle. So, and you say "fantasy"!
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 1 February 2017 10: 10
          +2
          Secret city of Anadyr-1
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 1 February 2017 10: 12
            +2
            There is a lot of such kindness in the vicinity of Anadyr-1
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 1 February 2017 10: 16
              +3
              And this is the main attraction of the secret town, the object “C” is an underground storage of nuclear weapons.
        2. 3danimal
          3danimal 4 February 2017 08: 01
          0
          You do not quite understand, 100 aircraft will not cope with the 500th. Damage done. Heroically perishing. All your calculations are in the distraction from the balance of power, which is strongly not in our favor.
          The Soviet Union and the Russian Federation cannot be compared. They are not comparable in terms of armed forces (5 million versus 0,8), influence (ATS unit), industry (now 98% of machines are imported), technological independence.
          The budget of the US Armed Forces is $ 547 billion. The expenditure side of the budget of the Russian Federation for 2017 is $ 270 billion, revenue $ 220 billion (deficit).
          Do you want in the weight of 40 kg to enter the ring against the heavy? )
          In its present form, mobilization in the Russian Federation is impossible.
          Look at the Humpty Dumpty case. Average Moscow officials, without bargaining, paid $ 10 million each to preserve the anonymity of Internet correspondence. If there are 10-20 of such people in the country (which is likely), then the amount of "pocket" money will be $ 100-200 billion.
          First you need to put things in order at home. Any ideas? )
  4. Rabinowicz
    Rabinowicz 31 January 2017 07: 56
    0
    Looks like the cruiser Aurora, or I'm wrong.
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 31 January 2017 08: 06
      +4
      Quote: Rabinovich
      Looks like the cruiser Aurora, or I'm wrong.

      You are mistaken, a copy of Aurora is this one
      1. Rabinowicz
        Rabinowicz 31 January 2017 08: 47
        +2
        An interesting ship, as if an alien. There are few windows and no masts are visible.
        1. qwerty183
          qwerty183 27 February 2017 18: 33
          0
          Outwardly, I also like him, futuristically, though the truth is far from being as beautiful as the Centaurus ships from Babylon 5))
          1. Rabinowicz
            Rabinowicz 28 February 2017 10: 07
            0
            Agree wink
            Ambassador Mollari would agree think
  5. Mar.Tirah
    Mar.Tirah 31 January 2017 08: 21
    +3
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Quote: Vladimirets
    Well, what else lines might be the destroyer of Her Majesty? Of course, noble.

    The ship is stately, beautiful









    Like a real yacht

    Power plants are especially pleased. I didn’t hear about Värtislä, but I had to observe the Finnish Wartsila marine diesel engine .. A hodgepodge of the European Union (Germany, France), with a limited resource of engine hours. And a constant revision of sophisticated equipment that constantly fails. So let him run. Bye!
    1. opus
      opus 31 January 2017 12: 21
      +7
      Quote: Mar. Tira
      but the Finnish marine diesel engine Wartsila had to watch .. The hodgepodge of the European Union (Germany, France), with a limited resource hours

      That's what I was wondering what the USSR was building on Wärtsilä Oyj Abp
      nuclear icebreakers: Taimyr, Vaigach, and other diesel-electric with Wärtsilä diesels:
      “Captain Belousov”, “Captain Voronin”, “Captain Melekhov”, “Moscow”, “Leningrad”, “Kiev”, “Murmansk”, “Vladivostok”, “Ermak”, “Admiral Makarov”, “Krasin”, Icebreakers of the type “Captain Sorokin”, Ivan Petrov-type icebreaking transport vessels, River icebreakers of the “Captain Evdokimov” type, 1191 project, etc.

      And Russia: electric ice and electric propulsion systems manufactured by Wärtsilä were installed on the icebreakers of the 21900 avenue Moscow and St. Petersburg, built at the Baltic Shipyard in St. Petersburg in the 2005 — 2009 years.
      Also on the Sedov barge is the Wartsila main power plant.

      46700 diesel engines Wärtsilä 2009L2010 on each ship for each ABB electric complex are installed on icebreaking tankers of the 4 project Mikhail Ulyanov and Kirill Lavrov, built at the Admiralty Shipyards in St. Petersburg in the 9 — 38 years. , two "azipods" (propulsive power plant) and two "tunnel thrusters" (thruster).

      Quote: Mar. Tira
      So let him run. Bye!

      that's right.
      Our same horses, like shaving, let our entire northern fleet run “bye”
      Note: Frogs are the same suckers as the British and Russians

      scolded understand 876 MBT units on a diesel engine with limited engine life
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 31 January 2017 12: 33
        +3
        Quote: opus
        “Captain Belousov”, “Captain Voronin”, “Captain Melekhov”, “Moscow”, “Leningrad”, “Kiev”, “Murmansk”, “Vladivostok”, “Ermak”, “Admiral Makarov”, “Krasin”, Icebreakers of the type “Captain Sorokin”, Ivan Petrov-type icebreaking transport vessels, River icebreakers of the “Captain Evdokimov” type, 1191 project, etc.

        Yes, half of the Soviet fleet went Burmeisters and Wartsils .....
        Quote: Mar. Tira
        but the Finnish marine diesel engine Wartsila had to observe

        This you have not yet seen 6DR300 !!!! bully
        1. opus
          opus 31 January 2017 13: 19
          +1
          Quote: Serg65
          Yes, half of the Soviet fleet went Burmeisters and Wartsils .....

          I wonder what "Mar. Tire" hinted at?
          Quote: Mar. Tira
          but the Finnish Wartsila marine diesel engine had to be observed .. A hodgepodge of the European Union (Germany, France), with a limited resource of engine hours. And a constant audit of sophisticated equipment that constantly fails. So let it run. Until now!

          ?
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 31 January 2017 13: 33
            +2
            Quote: opus
            I wonder what "Mar. Tire" hinted at?

            On your "awareness."
      2. demiurg
        demiurg 31 January 2017 15: 12
        0
        By the way, to the question of power plants, and the Finns do not want to fit us diesels for the same guards?
  6. Masya masya
    Masya masya 31 January 2017 08: 26
    +5
    The strength of the destroyer is in his radars.
    The first scans the entire space, up to near space.
    The second one constantly looks at the horizon, fearing the appearance of low-flying aircraft and rockets.

    I wonder if the EW "Krasuha-4" will knock him out? recourse enlighten ...
    1. novel66
      novel66 31 January 2017 09: 21
      +5
      it’s necessary to cut it off with a rocket, it makes no sense to jam it
      1. Masya masya
        Masya masya 31 January 2017 09: 39
        +6
        This is understandable, our rocket is everything !!! And so that in a civilized way, they just took leave ... wink
        1. novel66
          novel66 31 January 2017 09: 48
          +9
          can be pulled out of the Lepage glue gun and then sprinkled with dipoles - and it’s beautiful and will go blind
        2. oborzevatel
          oborzevatel 31 January 2017 11: 04
          +2
          Quote: Masya Masya
          This is understandable, our rocket is everything !!! And so that in a civilized way, they just took leave ... wink

          Something reminded a famous joke about Ilya Muromets:
          "Olesha, shower him with chalk, I’m Ofigachu with his club ...!" wink
    2. opus
      opus 31 January 2017 12: 06
      +3
      Quote: Masya Masya
      I wonder if the EW "Krasuha-4" will knock him out?

      easily.
      1. If Krauha-4 will learn to swim / walk
      2. If HMS Daring (D32) gets an airborne surveillance radar and learns to fly
      what

      Indeed, the main purpose of 1RL257 RB-271А /: suppression aviation surveillance radars, covering stationary objects from airborne radar reconnaissance radars aircraft E-8С "Jistars", multi-functional radar aircraft strike aircraft, reconnaissance and reconnaissance-strike UAV Global Hawk and Predator Radar AES "Lacrosse".
      1. Masya masya
        Masya masya 31 January 2017 12: 10
        +5
        easily.

        I wanted to hear this !!!
        1. novel66
          novel66 31 January 2017 12: 25
          +4
          well, in general, it will be like a fight between a freezer and a microwave, standing in different corners of the kitchen laughing
          1. opus
            opus 31 January 2017 13: 21
            +1
            Quote: novel xnumx
            standing in different corners of the kitchen

            take "higher"
            standing in the basement and in the attic .... different houses, and in different cities (or at different ends of the cities for sure)
        2. The comment was deleted.
    3. sa-ag
      sa-ag 31 January 2017 12: 16
      +2
      Quote: Masya Masya
      I wonder if the EW "Krasuha-4" will knock him out?

      And you ask yourself, how long will the source of powerful radio emission live in the active period?
      1. opus
        opus 31 January 2017 13: 24
        +3
        Quote: sa-ag
        how long will a source of powerful radio emission live in the active period?

        poor missile destroyer radar
        AN / SPS-49 (does not turn off when, except for repair), AN / SPS-55 (turns off in the port as it was moored), AN / UPX-29 (does not turn off when, except for repair);
        EW AN / SLQ-32 (turns off at the port, as moored);


        or type D61

        they turn off their microwave ovens ONLY when they get to the dock for repairs.
        To see
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 31 January 2017 13: 41
          +2
          Quote: opus
          they turn off their microwave ovens ONLY when they get to the dock for repairs.
          To see

          And you have to turn off and at sea because
          Quote: sa-ag
          source of powerful radio emission in the active period

          This is a black mark in the center of the target ..
          1. opus
            opus 31 January 2017 14: 12
            +2
            Quote: Serg65
            And you have to turn off and at sea because

            MARS - (basket) returned to the mast again?

            I lag behind life
  7. kugelblitz
    kugelblitz 31 January 2017 08: 49
    +4
    Rolls-royce wr-21


    Oh wey, a familiar iron propulsion system and chronically unreliable. As I heard precisely because of aviation origin and poor adaptation to marine realities, these are such problems. Sobsno recently, at the transition of Kuzi Ent, the English wunderwaffle died and SU did not force.

    From here morality: how not to build ships. Daewoo is certainly interesting, but with many nuances. It's okay to connect the clutch is not a problem, but the diesel will drag even when submerged, if only the air went to the feed. I met a civilian Daewoo, the essence of it was to install several small diesels with a transmission for one or two screws, but the crosshead low-speed converter is actually much more reliable and has a huge resource.
    In terms of turbines, I suspect a problem in the raw sea air supplied, as I read one of the requirements of specially designed marine turbines was resistance to corrosion, to salinization and other nuances. In addition, they are initially more massive, have a longer resource, withstand supernominal modes.
    And also questions to the concept, why a clean air defense ship, if the ships are the priority goals of our ships? The air defense system is there for a short time to purely fight off the anti-ship missiles and enemy aircraft, and the priority task is to send the anti-ship missiles to the bottom of the adversary. By the way, the mass of missiles means a large range, moreover, Redoubt should have super-maneuverable close-range missiles with telecontrol in the manner of the land Thor. The Brit missile system is liquid for surface purposes, motorboats and boats with a 100% guarantee.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 31 January 2017 11: 34
      +4
      Quote: kugelblitz
      And also questions to the concept, why a clean air defense ship, if the ships are the priority goals of our ships?

      Most likely within the framework of the "division of labor" in NATO. smile In which the impact force is USN. And the fleets of the European Union were assigned the role of a cover for Atlantic communications.
      Quote: kugelblitz
      The air defense system is there for a short time to purely fight off the anti-ship missiles and enemy aircraft, and the priority task is to send the anti-ship missiles to the bottom of the adversary.

      So AUG will be engaged in our KUG star-striped. And their former metropolis will cover the convoys, the main threat for which were the SSBN and ICAPL (well, theraps that are no longer present). Against these goals, RCCs are no longer needed - "folding beds"remained in the distant past.
    2. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 31 January 2017 12: 05
      0
      Quote: kugelblitz
      Oh wow

      So it’s like our business is not here
      1. kugelblitz
        kugelblitz 31 January 2017 12: 44
        0
        Quote: saturn.mmm
        So it’s like our business is not here

        The thing is different, namely the low reliability of the power plant did not allow to accompany Kuzya along the entire route. And as for Cousin, the smoke was siphoned from their thrash media, but they were blown away by the full program. wassat
    3. opus
      opus 31 January 2017 13: 14
      +1
      Quote: kugelblitz
      Oh wey, familiar iron propulsion system

      If something, then on the “iron” Rolls-Royce Marine Trent-30 and Rolls-Royce RR4500
      Quote: kugelblitz
      As I heard precisely because of aviation origin

      and they almost all have an aviation pedigree
      M70RU gas turbine engine NPO Saturn



      General Electric LM2500 is an industrial and marine gas turbine produced by GE Aviation.

      (about all sorts of Arly Burke and Ticonderog, and I don’t remember
      The LM2500 is a derivative of the General Electric CF6 aircraft engine.

      General Electric CF6 (TF39): C-5, Lockheed L-1011, McDonnell Douglas DC-10, Boeing 747, Airbus A300, 310 and 330, Boeing 767, McDonnell Douglas MD-11.
      Quote: kugelblitz
      In terms of turbines, I suspect the problem is served with cheese sea ​​air

      good
      1. Usually over the oceans, the air is always close to saturated with steam (80% and higher)
      2. Humidity in St. Petersburg and Leningrad.,%. 86. 90. 95. 92. 89. 85. 92. 92. Xnumx crying
      (Stsuka, it’s also cloudy for 366 days in the year of their 365, how the gas turbines work there - xs, all the energy on snot)
      3. USA with the highest humidity - Forks and Olympia, both located in the state Washington (Boeing has production facilities in Everett)
      accordingly, ships with gas turbines have no chance to enter Port of Seattle and Port of Tacoma


      in: bad luck
      And in Oregon there was even a saying: “People here do not sunbathe, but rust”
      4 and the main thing .. "he heard a ringing, but does not know where / what he is talking about"
      About the wet sea air is a masterpiece of course. But it’s better not to read the "yellow" prex
      WR-21 have an intercooler-recuperator,which takes heat from the exhaust pipe and throws it into the engine, which makes it more economical and reduces the thermal visibility of the ship

      Here in it is something in the intercooler and a jamb, which sometimes (under certain circumstances) causes overloads on the generator (s)
      BUT TTZ on the destroyer (according to the temperature of ABC water) was given by the "admirals" of the British fleet.

      "Type 45 never been forced return to port due to lack of power or traction. "

      and this "problem" is solved / solved: go to the dock and install 1 or 2 new diesel generator

      Quote: kugelblitz
      . In addition, they are initially more massive, have a longer resource, withstand supernominal modes.


      Than what? with what comparison?


      Quote: kugelblitz
      From here morality: how not to build ships.

      the moral is this.
      Do not "build" 1 ships in 10 years, so do not.
      but we must stop hearing the talkers (whom I am hinting at) and build the ships as they should:


      1 to 3 of the year.
      And to have their own GDU (GTU or DU), and do not beg for replicas from China for crazy money

      Quote: kugelblitz
      The Brit missile system is liquid for surface purposes, motorboats and boats with an 100% guarantee.

      Admiral ... MDA.
      the task of these destroyers is Air Defense Naval Forces

      The 45 type has become the "gold standard" in air defense and air traffic control, it is recognized as the "goalkeeper" for US aircraft carriers. The Americans acknowledge this, and agree that it has an edge, even over their well-known AEGIS system.
      1. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 31 January 2017 14: 58
        0
        Quote: opus
        General Electric CF6 (TF39): C-5, Lockheed L-1011, McDonnell Douglas DC-10, Boeing 747, Airbus A300, 310 and 330, Boeing 767, McDonnell Douglas MD-11.

        It’s like a reliable turbine on the Berks, so why did the Am-ts go to the Great Britain, the Rolls-Royce behind the turbines?
        1. opus
          opus 31 January 2017 17: 09
          +2
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          , so why did the Am-ts go to the Great Britain, the Rolls-Royce behind the turbines?

          WR-21 cooler
          Quote: opus
          WR-21 have an intercooler-recuperator, which takes heat from the exhaust pipe and transfers it to the engine, which makes itgo more economical and reduces the thermal signature of the ship

          +
          WR-21 was DESIGNED (designed) by Americans: Westinghouse Electric Corporation (later Northrop Grumman Marine Systems)
          Intercooler and recuperator, by the way American wink
          Rolls-Royce office is solid. We are far away from them

          1. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 1 February 2017 00: 34
            0
            Quote: opus
            Intercooler and recuperator, by the way American
            Rolls-Royce office is solid. We are far away from them

            Well, judging by the way they both went too far, it’s not so far away, but the words are of course ponte- intercooler, recuperator.
            If we take aircraft engines, it’s not at all clear where they exceeded the Russians, if we take the totality of characteristics, they are not ahead of them in any way.
      2. kugelblitz
        kugelblitz 31 January 2017 15: 58
        0
        Then the question is, why did the first gas turbine torpedo boats encounter deposits on the blades? The recuperator, as I recall, is intended primarily to increase the efficiency of the installation, of course the air heats up, but where is the moisture not clear? Voshche still heard it is necessary to change up to 80% of the details, and even the M-90FR does not remember the aviation prototype.

        And then after all, take what thread NK-12, attach a gearbox to it and forth.
        1. opus
          opus 31 January 2017 17: 57
          +1
          Quote: kugelblitz
          why did the first gas turbine torpedo boats encounter deposits on the blades?


          1.Little space (tonnage): the bulk of combat boats are still still equipped with diesel power plants.
          a significant amount of air and exhaust channels on boats with gas turbine installations, complicates the placement of weapons and other equipment. In addition, diesels allow the implementation of exhaust into the water.
          2. When was that?
          The turbines of such boats are aircraft-type, adapted to the conditions of work at sea. Their design necessarily takes into account shock loads on the boat hull, the possibility of seawater entering the flow part of the turbine, a large number of starts. In addition, it provides for the possibility of operating the turbine with a partial load.

          Quote: kugelblitz
          but where does the moisture go unclear?

          Air inlets are located at the top of the superstructure and are equipped with strainers to remove moisture, inertial separators that reduce the salt content in the air stream, and silencers.
          filters are needed everywhere (except aviation, but they would like the same)



          GTDs currently used on ships of the Navy of the capitalist countries are classified as first-generation engines and are refitted aircraft turboshaft engines. The conversion was caused by the fact that aircraft engines are unsuitable for operation in marine conditions due to corrosion and erosion of their parts, which reduces the efficiency of the engines and reduces their service life.

          Re-equipment of aircraft gas turbine engines for the purpose of their operation in ship conditions consisted in replacing parts from magnesium alloys with aluminum, aluminum compressor blades with steel; for surfaces of parts operating at high and low temperatures, resistant metal and paint coatings were used; the temperature of the gases at the turbine inlet has been reduced by approximately 100 ° C.


          In recent years, ship-type gas turbine engines of the second generation (LM-2500) have appeared, which were developed based on aircraft turbojet engines, but already specifically for use in marine conditions. They have a low specific fuel consumption, increased corrosion resistance, less than the first generation gas turbine engines, weight and dimensions, a longer service life and increased reliability.
          Quote: kugelblitz
          I do not remember the M-90FR aircraft prototype.

          which prototype are aircraft engines D-30KU / KP?
          not?

          1. "Saturn" is a historical enterprise in the direction of gas turbine construction from the point of view of aviation.

          2. M-90FR (developer - ZAO Turborus - Joint Venture NPO Saturn OJSC and State Enterprise NPKG Zorya-Mashproekt, Ukraine)
          3.M-90FR with a capacity of 27 horsepower
          UGT 16000-UGT 25000?
          All based on the fourth generation M80 gas turbine engine?

          Quote: kugelblitz
          And then, take what thread NK-12

          turbocharger (gas generator) take

          NK-12ST, NK-14ST: drives of gas pumping units
          NK-14E: generator drive in modular power plants
          1. kugelblitz
            kugelblitz 31 January 2017 18: 54
            0
            Quote: opus
            Re-equipment of aircraft gas turbine engines for the purpose of their operation in ship conditions consisted in replacing parts from magnesium alloys with aluminum, aluminum compressor blades with steel; for surfaces of parts operating at high and low temperatures, resistant metal and paint coatings were used; the temperature of the gases at the turbine inlet has been reduced by approximately 100 ° C.


            In recent years, shipborne gas turbine engines of the second generation (LM-2500) have appeared, which were developed on the basis of aircraft turbojet engines, but already specifically for use in marine conditions. They have a low specific fuel consumption, increased corrosion resistance, less than the first generation gas turbine engines, weight and dimensions, a longer service life and increased reliability.


            Here in these phrases all salt, less weight, it is clear how it is achieved, by increasing efficiency. This means the volume of alterations, due to which Berkov got reliable aggregates, since the magic figure of 80% was found just on their website. RR clearly saved on changes, due to which the UG for marine purposes was released.
  8. Charond
    Charond 31 January 2017 11: 23
    +4
    Where is the Black Sea, and where is England ... And then they will start talking nonsense about what supposedly aggressive Russians are and how they supposedly threaten England.
  9. Sasha_Sar
    Sasha_Sar 31 January 2017 11: 59
    +4
    Fame "Donald Cook" wanted apparently wassat
  10. mr.fafes
    mr.fafes 31 January 2017 12: 47
    0
    The stub of the amusing British fleet, "Her Majesty's circus dragon" goes black to show the circus performances to the sailors of the Black Sea fleet!
  11. tlauicol
    tlauicol 31 January 2017 13: 11
    0


    by the way, about the lack of anti-ship missiles on the british yes
    1. opus
      opus 31 January 2017 13: 38
      +1
      Quote: Tlauicol
      by the way, about the lack of anti-ship missiles on the british

      they are POSSIBLE to install 2x4 launchers of Mk 141 (inclined)with 8 anti-ship missiles of the Harpoon family
      D34 (Ty45)


      Damn already?

      I thought it was type 23 wink

      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 31 January 2017 15: 13
        +1
        Already - it’s not good to visit empty-handed wink
  12. Mar.Tirah
    Mar.Tirah 31 January 2017 14: 55
    0
    Quote: opus
    Quote: Mar. Tira
    but the Finnish marine diesel engine Wartsila had to watch .. The hodgepodge of the European Union (Germany, France), with a limited resource hours

    That's what I was wondering what the USSR was building on Wärtsilä Oyj Abp
    nuclear icebreakers: Taimyr, Vaigach, and other diesel-electric with Wärtsilä diesels:
    “Captain Belousov”, “Captain Voronin”, “Captain Melekhov”, “Moscow”, “Leningrad”, “Kiev”, “Murmansk”, “Vladivostok”, “Ermak”, “Admiral Makarov”, “Krasin”, Icebreakers of the type “Captain Sorokin”, Ivan Petrov-type icebreaking transport vessels, River icebreakers of the “Captain Evdokimov” type, 1191 project, etc.

    And Russia: electric ice and electric propulsion systems manufactured by Wärtsilä were installed on the icebreakers of the 21900 avenue Moscow and St. Petersburg, built at the Baltic Shipyard in St. Petersburg in the 2005 — 2009 years.
    Also on the Sedov barge is the Wartsila main power plant.

    46700 diesel engines Wärtsilä 2009L2010 on each ship for each ABB electric complex are installed on icebreaking tankers of the 4 project Mikhail Ulyanov and Kirill Lavrov, built at the Admiralty Shipyards in St. Petersburg in the 9 — 38 years. , two "azipods" (propulsive power plant) and two "tunnel thrusters" (thruster).

    Quote: Mar. Tira
    So let him run. Bye!

    that's right.
    Our same horses, like shaving, let our entire northern fleet run “bye”
    Note: Frogs are the same suckers as the British and Russians

    scolded understand 876 MBT units on a diesel engine with limited engine life

    My dear, do not confuse the salty with the hot. The crankshaft of Germany, and the crankcase of France are not associated with reliability in any way. It took us a year to replace the failed crankshaft and the complaints. And I'm talking about modern assemblies, and those that were ten years old back, and not what happened during the USSR, were you lucky enough to work successfully in a foreign country? I am happy for you.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Mar.Tirah
        Mar.Tirah 31 January 2017 18: 31
        0
        OOO! Yes, you are ignorant however. Do you run into a scandal?
        1. opus
          opus 31 January 2017 19: 02
          +1
          Quote: Mar. Tira
          LLC! Yes you are ignorant however.

          what

          Quote: Mar. Tira
          .Do you run into a scandal?

          And?
          Will there be threats?
  13. uskrabut
    uskrabut 31 January 2017 14: 59
    0
    Such strike ships now do not need to be built at all, there is a caliber of container placement. Cargo on any barge or dry cargo ship, and by land, can be by rail or by road. Air defense has not yet reached that level.
  14. tchoni
    tchoni 31 January 2017 15: 25
    0
    That same time that I agree with Oleg
  15. _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ 31 January 2017 16: 07
    +1
    Great ship air defense. What is the use of walking alone? Protect yourself?
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 1 February 2017 00: 42
      0
      Quote: _Ugene_
      Great ship air defense. What is the use of walking alone? Protect yourself?

      Fair remark.
  16. andrewkor
    andrewkor 31 January 2017 19: 25
    0
    Here, here it would be necessary to fly around it a couple of times with the included "Krasukha, but to take on the tracking of the radar" Bastion "and look at the effect !!
    1. opus
      opus 31 January 2017 19: 37
      +1
      Quote: andrewkor
      Here, here it would be necessary to fly around it a couple of times with the included "Beauty,

      It remains only to "Kraukha" to "fly around" to keep it tight and everything, then everything is "bunch"


      And what? it will look cool.
      The main thing is to find where to connect the power


      You do not know if there is an ADS-30 on a regular aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces?
      still needed:
      three-phase, 4-pole
      power on three phases (400V) is 24,5 kW (30,6 kVA)
      Current type - alternating
      frequency - 50 + 0,5 Hz
  17. 3danimal
    3danimal 1 February 2017 07: 10
    0
    Quote: Masya Masya
    easily.

    I wanted to hear this !!!

    Can you imagine how different in power radar aircraft AWACS and destroyer? And google the word "sarcasm")
    1. Niccola Mack
      Niccola Mack 6 February 2017 11: 47
      0
      Sorry to interrupt - but maybe you explain the phrase in your sarcasm:
      how much power differs radar AWACS and destroyer?

      differ from what?
  18. 3danimal
    3danimal 1 February 2017 07: 18
    0
    Quote: andrewkor
    Here, here it would be necessary to fly around it a couple of times with the included "Krasukha, but to take on the tracking of the radar" Bastion "and look at the effect !!


    The destroyer has its own electronic warfare system AN / SSQ-130, with a peak power of 1 MW. If he muffles her our “flying object” in neutral waters, will this be considered an act of aggression ??
  19. Mar.Tirah
    Mar.Tirah 1 February 2017 16: 23
    0
    Quote: 3danimal
    Quote: andrewkor
    Here, here it would be necessary to fly around it a couple of times with the included "Krasukha, but to take on the tracking of the radar" Bastion "and look at the effect !!


    The destroyer has its own electronic warfare system AN / SSQ-130, with a peak power of 1 MW. If he muffles her our “flying object” in neutral waters, will this be considered an act of aggression ??

    And what do you mean by the term it will muffle? Will it muffle the engines of a scout or something? So EW is not for this purpose. No one will shoot at it. And if they do, then it will not save any EW
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 3 February 2017 16: 16
      0
      Disrupt the radar, possibly navigation systems.
      The question is whether such an action would be regarded as an attack in neutral waters (from ours or from their side)? And, if so, then do not raise this topic at all)
      1. 3danimal
        3danimal 3 February 2017 16: 25
        0
        By the way, at one time the news about how the Su-24 “extinguished” (turned off the radar and a number of combat systems) amused the US destroyer of the 30-kilobatt Khibiny electronic warfare (functions - self-defense of the aircraft from enemy radars and missiles), with which it is generally not compatible (only Su-34). After that, the belief in the superpower and versatility of electronic warfare systems spread in articles and comments.