Weapon production requires silence
KTRV was established in 2002 year on the basis of the State Research and Production Center "Zvezda-Strela" in the town of Korolev, Moscow Region (hereinafter - the Corporation). Today, the Corporation is a recognized leader in the design and manufacture of high-precision weapons, uniting more than three dozen enterprises of the military-industrial complex of Russia. In January 2017, the Corporation celebrates its 15th anniversary. The General Director of KTRV - General Designer tells military observer Nikolai POROSKOV about the present day of the holding, about the successes and problems with which the team approached the anniversary. aviation means of destruction, Doctor of Technical Sciences, full member of the Russian Academy of Rocket and Artillery Sciences, the Russian Academy of Cosmonautics named after K.E. Tsiolkovsky Boris OBNOSOV.- Boris Viktorovich, a well-known Russian defense worker and its leaders, a well-known person, when I asked for a brief description, said: "Obnosov - adviser to the president of the country on rocket affairs." Do you really have a presidential adviser position?
- Report - report. And God forbid, with their direct responsibilities to cope.
- Well, then about the serious. “Corporation Development Strategies to 2017 of the Year” next year - 10 years. Have you managed to realize all your plans? What did not succumb to the implementation and why?- Today, we have approved and are implementing the "Development Strategy of the Corporation until 2025." The previous document is essentially implemented. Following its provisions, we were developing promising aviation weapons and naval weapons in order to update the product line. The President of the country before the defense complex was given the task - by 2020, a new weapon of the army and fleet should be about 70%. This is the benchmark that we strive to achieve.
- Did something fundamentally new appear in the prolonged strategy?
- A fundamentally new and should not appear in such a document, because it would mean a denial of what we did before. The development, of course, is indicated. The corporation was enlarged, new enterprises were added and, accordingly, new tasks. When they wrote the Strategy before 2017, they didn’t even think that we would have such segments as all underwater weapons, space subjects. These tasks were incorporated into the Strategy prior to 2025. We did not think then that we would be able to develop production capacities at the expense of our profits and state assistance to such an extent that today we can solve very serious tasks.
When they ask me why they failed to fully realize what was planned, I answer: who of us then had the experience to create so many products at the same time? After all, each of them requires a large individual preparation of production. I can honestly say to myself that I did not know that then. If I had to go all the way again, I would not have made many mistakes.
- Will the Tactical Missiles Corporation still expand? And is there a need for expansion?
- We'll see. We must first have a good master.
- Then from the conceptual document we turn to the specifics. About a year ago, you assumed that in 2016, you would increase the volume of output by "percent by 20, and maybe by 30". Prediction come true?- There is still time before summing up, but I remain optimistic. I think everything will work out.
- A question of strategy, it is also an ideological one. Fashion is, or is it really necessary, that the entire domestic defense industry is divided into large production associations, clusters that have absorbed dozens of them, like yours, and even hundreds, as in Rostec, enterprises. You once said that the property of "our Russian character is better to do our own than in cooperation with our neighbors." And yet, how do you think work better: independently or as part of a large holding?
- If we inside our Corporation can do something better by the criterion of “cost - efficiency,” then, of course, I will try to create a long-term load on our enterprises. But if they tell me “from the side” what they will do on 20 – 30% cheaper, and besides, more quickly, then as a pragmatist I will place orders there.
- That is, in your opinion, the association of enterprises - is this a blessing for the defense industry?
- If the holding is normally organized, then this is the only correct way, because today creating strong competition inside and thus driving oneself into negative profitability is wrong. It is like a steam engine with very low efficiency. And we need to develop, fulfill social obligations, strengthen enterprises, carry out technical modernization.
- Does this mean that you are against internal competition?
- To a certain extent. If there is external competition, then we need to gather strength inside Russia, not fighting among ourselves.- Do you have competitors within the country?
- Yes there is. We compare our products with the products of the Novator Design Bureau, for example, with the same “Caliber”, which is widely known today. Kolomenskoye Engineering Design Bureau is trying to make aircraft armament - also in a certain sense a competitor. On the other hand, we are fruitfully working with the Concern VKO "Almaz-Antey": the rocket produced on our "Vympel" is adapted to the air defense system - missile defense.
- What is your assessment of the Russian-Indian company Brahmos, which also makes aircraft missiles?
- This is an ideal example that can be followed, probably, by all joint ventures. Brahmos provides good orders both to us and India, and in the future in third countries. Thanks to the founder of this company Herbert Alexandrovich Efremov, now the honorary director general of the military industrial complex NPO Mashinostroeniya. When I see this wise man, I certainly consult with him. We find common topics.
- What is the participation of KTRV in Bramos?
- We, through the military industrial complex NPO Mashinostroyenia, own the 49% of the shares of the Bramos company. The corporation is extremely interested in its development.
- Among the priority directions of work of KTRV is the development and production of hypersonic weapon systems, about which they write and speak a lot. How much has the Corporation advanced in this area? Are there already products "in the gland"? There are a lot of conversations about Rosnano, and the products based on new technologies, new physical principles are pshik ...
“The less you talk about a weapon, the better the result, its production requires silence.”
Indeed, hypersonic weapon systems are one of our priorities. This has been said more than once by the country's leadership. I can’t talk about specifics in this promising direction, but believe me, quite a lot of interesting things are being done, including in the JSC GosMCB Raduga to them. AND I. Bereznyak "in Dubna, in JSC" MIC "NPO Mashinostroyeniya" in Reutov, in other subsidiaries, on the main site.
The Corporation interacts well with this subject with the Moscow Institute of Thermal Engineering, with the V.P. Makeev. We work very closely with various institutes of the Russian Academy of Sciences and personally with Vladimir Evgenyevich Fortov, with the Advanced Research Foundation. This work is multifaceted, multi-spectral. It covers sectors such as materials science, avionics, aerodynamics, engines, combat units.
“I think the beginning of the 2020s will be marked by an exit to 6 – 7 Mach” - these are your words. What kind of product will give so many Machs? From scanty messages, one can only learn that the Reutov NPO Mashinostroenia is developing a promising hypersonic cruise missile and hypersonic military equipment for intercontinental ballistic missiles.
- I can neither confirm nor deny these media reports. In print a lot of different and contradictory information appears on this closed topic.
- For a promising aviation front-line aviation complex (PAK FA) it is planned to create new means of destruction. What is this money? What is their novelty? When will a promising front-line aviation complex get them?
- We are the main developers of promising aviation weapons. The specificity of the PAK FA is that the weapon must be placed inside the fuselage in order for the aircraft to have a smaller effective dispersion surface (EPR), that is, greater secrecy, which will increase the survivability of the aircraft. For us, these are additional difficulties, weight and dimensional restrictions. If a rocket hides inside the fuselage, at least it must have a plumage.
- You said about one of the principles of weapon development. What else can be called?
“We are developing small, medium and long-range air-to-air weapons, anti-ship weapons, multipurpose, guided adjustable bombs. Prospects for the development of weapons - an increase in range, increasing the combat load, flight speed, all-weather and round-the-clock, achieving extremely small and extremely high altitudes, complicating the flight trajectory with rounding the terrain.
Add here the development of multispectral homing heads, because in this area we are a little behind some western competitors. At the same time, it is necessary to remember the criteria “effectiveness - cost”. A rocket must cost at least an order of magnitude cheaper than the target it must hit. So, if a rocket weighing 600 kg is capable of destroying a ship with a displacement of up to 5 KT, its production, apparently, is justified.
Such weapons require, among other things, qualified use. Those who uphold the principle of “launched a missile - forgot” are not always right, she herself, they say, will find the target. There are quite a few parameters for the use of weapons: the choice of the launch zone, the preparation of the product, the correct purpose of the targets ...
- UAVs (and sixth-generation aviation was conceived as unmanned) today they produce different ones for their intended purpose. And now it's time to arm them. Does KTRV deal with this? What is this weapon? How effective is it? What is the forecast regarding new weapons for UAVs?
- For us, there are no significant differences in weapons for manned aircraft and unmanned aircraft. Much depends on the size of the drone drone that is unlikely to reach parameters in the near future, for example, the Tu-160. Weapons for future UAVs should be less overall and, probably, more intelligent.
- You most likely know about the specialized computational subsystem (SVP) of the small private company Gefest and T from the city of Zhukovsky. The SVP makes it possible to bring the accuracy of conventional free-falling bombs to the level of high-precision weapons. Do you have a desire to join forces with this company to increase the accuracy of your UAB and CAB?“The workers of Hephaestus are great, but the SVP is a device for increasing the accuracy of hitting free-falling bombs directly in the bombing zone. Our corrected aerial bombs hit targets at distances of 20 – 80 km. This is their main difference. When an air defense system is suppressed, of course, free-falling bombs must be used to destroy the remaining infrastructure - they are much cheaper. For us, this development is not yet relevant. But if the expediency of using SVP or other similar systems for our products will be proved, we will certainly use it.
- Over the past three years, KTRV has completed testing 14 new products. If possible, name some of them. How many will go into mass production next year?
“These are, in particular, X-31PD anti-radar missiles, X-31AD and X-35UE anti-ship anti-ship, X-38МЕ type multi-purpose modular missiles that can be equipped with combined guidance systems, including satellite navigation, and also be equipped with various types of warheads. These are new air-to-air missiles of short, medium and long range. All of them can be attributed to promising products. Today, about ten products are still at various stages of testing.
- Tell at least in two words about the “Package-E” system, which includes a torpedo and an anti-torpedo, and which has no analogues in your Western competitors. They did not guess to combine the torpedo and anti-torpedo?
- The Package-E / NK system is armed with frigates and corvettes. On one launcher are torpedo, designed to defeat submarines, and anti-torpedo - to intercept torpedoes.
- How is their action separated in time?
- Depends on what threat first discovered. Torpedo and anti-torpedo are not interrelated.
- We are not pioneers here?
- I do not know any other such examples abroad. I think the priority is ours.
- Miracle-rocket "Shkval-E" (without exaggeration - a miracle going under water at a speed of 360 km per hour) by the Corporation is now being upgraded. In the course of the modernization, will its main disadvantages be eliminated - high noise and a small range? How will this be achieved?
- We are on the path of increasing the speed and range. With the statement that the disadvantage is noise, you can bet. The product moves at a speed of 100 m per second - there is no noise here, but even the “heard” this torpedo will be able to hit the target.
- A little about the civilian products KTRV. Are wind turbines and solar power generators in demand? Our media does not report on renewable energy. In Russia, wind power plants and solar power generators make up an insignificant percentage. It is in Holland hills raised with huge wind turbines ...
- Our enterprise was engaged in wind turbines at GosMKB Raduga. There are some developments, for example, the use of old generators from rocket engines in wind installations. Unfortunately, the efficiency of the wind turbines is low, so they are not very much in demand with today's cost parameters. We do not deal with solar power generators.
- Is there a feedback with the users of your products? Something implemented from the proposals received from them?
- Polygon tests of our products are carried out by specialists of the corporation together with the military, in order to take into account their comments and wishes. A lot of information gives the use of our products in real combat. What is happening now in Syria is for us a huge information array, a tool that we are trying to use. It is one thing to conduct tests in a familiar environment, in a familiar climate, and another in completely different climatic conditions, with different terrain.
- Do you take into account in the production of weapons and military equipment the fact that hostilities will have the character of network-centric, hybrid, and with the use of weapons on new physical principles?
- We must proceed from the demands of the military. We ourselves do not form the technical specifications for the product. But we regularly meet with representatives of the Ministry of Defense. They also take into account our opinion, but the military always order what they need: farther, faster and cheaper.
- And if you see that the task is obviously not feasible?
- So they talk about it.
- What is the general relationship between the KTRV and the Ministry of Defense?
- There is a daily practical work, on the results of which everything depends. Today it is clear that the defense and the military there is a need for each other, it is clear that individually we will not succeed. This is the incentive that makes us look at our work critically, without blaming the other side for failures.
- And it seems to me that there is one criterion: there is a state defense order - good relations, no - bad ones.
- Not necessary. It is possible to say to manufacturers with normal GOZ: poor weapons, workers without arms ... And the fact that engineers left difficult 1990-e, vocational schools destroyed, and they only began to technically re-equip in recent years, is not always remembered and taken into account. Now the prestige of technical professions is growing. Judging by MAI, where we have two departments, according to MSTU. N.E. Bauman, where we have a whole department. People again went into the defense industry.
- Realization of which products of KTRV in the country and abroad will allow you to look confidently into the future, will provide funds for new R & D?
“For example, our X-35E air-launched missile and for equipping the Uran-E AU and Bal-E AIRC made it possible for us to go through a very difficult period at the end of the 1990-s and the next decade, as it has a huge export potential. Anti-radar X-31P, medium-range air-to-air RVV-AE rocket - all these products are still in great demand today. Systems like Package-E / NK, adjustable bombs, of course, will be in demand. We have a product line that allows you to count on large export earnings.
- How many countries have you made happy with your products?
- A few dozens.
- You are personally included in the top five top executives of Russia in the category “Mashinostroenie” according to the “Top-1000 Russian Managers” rating. How do you assess this sign of attention and recognition? Did you expect?
- Of course not.
- What were the selection criteria?
- This is a whole built assessment system based on indicators of financial and economic activity. In particular, the volume of sales, growth rates, net profit, the availability of new developments and so on are taken into account.
- The leaders of the defense industry enterprises often complain about the lack of specialists, sometimes - their inability to work. Do you have the same problems?
- The success of defense enterprises depends on the people who work for them, on how well-coordinated the team is, and each manager sees in his place specialists who can be trusted with one or another job. Sometimes a person sits in an official chair and thinks that he is irreplaceable. He is already 70 years old, 80, and he reasons: “Give me two more years of age I will bail. Well, am I working poorly? ”Maybe not bad, only after such leaders often there is a“ burned field ”.
I believe that the old principle of “Personnel decide everything” should prevail in personnel policy. If young people see that they have good prospects, the business is very different. A person, having worked on the second and third roles for two decades, will be a priori afraid to make decisions. Of course, there may be single exceptions.
- Any leader in the defense industry is also just a person with strengths and weaknesses. I listen with curiosity to the lectures of Vladimir Georgievich Zhdanov, who, together with the confessor of the President of Russia, priest Tikhon Shevkunov, organized the Common Cause movement a few years ago in order to make the country sober. How do you feel about such a universal sobering up?
- A person should have a head and knowledge of the measure. Well, like a birthday, a holiday without a glass of wine?
- But the organizers of the "Common cause" believe that only with sobering Russia can truly be reborn.
- In general, I agree: Russia must be sobering. But for this, there are not enough lectures on the dangers of drunkenness, it is necessary to build gyms in schools, especially in the village ones (they used to be in almost every yard), and not to admire clubs like Chelsea. And partly to change the policy of the media, theaters, cinema, in order to receive benefits and moral examples from them, and not just another specific interpretation of the classics.
- What would you like to wish on the eve of the anniversary of the Corporation?
“I would like to express my gratitude to all our subcontractors and partners with whom we have shared our successes and difficulties all these 15 years. We would like to separately thank all the work teams of the Corporation's enterprises, without which the solution of the tasks assigned to us would be impossible.
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