Anti-tank missile system MMP (France)

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In the new 2017, the French Armed Forces intend to implement several new programs related to the rearmament of combatant units. One of these projects involves the scope of anti-tank missile systems. At present, several systems of this class are in service with the French army, including obsolete models. This year, ground forces will need to receive the first copies of the MMP, which is proposed as a replacement for older systems.

The MMP project (Missile Moyenne Portée - “Medium-Range Missile”) was developed by MBDA Missile Systems from 2009 on a proactive basis. Initially, the aim of the work was to determine the general features of the appearance of a promising anti-tank complex, but later on the project objectives were updated. In 2010, the French Defense Ministry held a competition, which resulted in the purchase of American-made Javelin ATGMs, finding the domestic systems of similar use obsolete. After that, the MMP complex was proposed to be done in view of the replacement of old French weapons.




MMP complex in position


In the future, the company-developer was able to interest the Ministry of Defense, which resulted in state support for the project. Finally, in December 2013, the first official contract for the future supply of serial missiles and launchers for them appeared. In accordance with the signed document, MBDA will have to transfer 400 portable launchers and 2850 missiles to the customer. Start supplying serial weapons planned in 2017 year. As recent events and reports show, the contractor is on schedule, so the first MMP products will be handed over to the army over the next few months.

It should be noted that at the time of signing the contract with the French army, MBDA did not have time to bring the project Missile Moyenne Portée to the testing stage. Only in 2014, tests of the warhead and other components of the promising missile took place. At the same time they conducted the first trial launch in a special tunnel. In the same year, a prototype model of a new ATGM was first demonstrated to the general public. The venue for the "premiere" of the complex was the exhibition Eurosatory 2014. It should be noted that in the year 2014 for the first time showed the entire complex assembly. The first demonstration of a model of a promising rocket took place even earlier, in 2011.


Rocket in the assembly shop


In the early stages of creating a new project, the designers of MBDA Missile Systems formed an interesting list of requirements for a rocket and a launcher. In determining the technical assignment, the experience of local conflicts of recent decades was taken into account, during which the existing ATGM mastered several new “professions”. During the recent wars, anti-tank missiles were actively used not only to combat enemy armored vehicles, but also during the destruction of strongholds or firing points, including in urban areas. In addition, the optimal position for launching a rocket is often located inside a building.

MMP rocket requirements were defined as follows. The complex should have the minimum possible weight and dimensions, allowing its transportation by calculation forces. The equipment of the complex should ensure the use of missiles at any time of the day and in any weather conditions. It was also required to provide for the possibility of re-targeting the rocket during the flight and searching for targets after launch. To expand the list of possible firing positions and reduce risks for the calculation, the shock wave at launch should be reduced. The missile was supposed to hit a variety of targets, from tanks to fortifications, destroying the selected object and causing the minimum possible collateral damage.

As the published information shows, all the tasks were successfully solved. According to the developer, the MMP rocket complex uses various technical ideas and solutions, as well as special algorithms to expand the range of tasks while maintaining acceptable performance. One of the ways to solve the tasks and reduce the cost of finished products has become a new approach to the choice of the element base. It was decided to use the so-called. COST-components, with acceptable characteristics differing in relatively low cost.

Anti-tank missile system MMP (France)
Rocket layout


The main element of the MMP complex is a rocket of the same name. Its design, in general, corresponds to the look of modern weapons of this class. The rocket with a total length of less than 1,3 m has a cylindrical body with a maximum diameter of 140 mm. The head fairing is used, which accommodates a part of the guidance and control equipment, as well as a compact leading charge of the warhead. The central compartment is dedicated to the placement of the main charge and a solid fuel engine. In the tail there is one more compartment of equipment and a compact starting accelerator. For stabilization and control in flight, the rocket has two sets of X-shaped planes. In the transport position, they are located inside the housing; after leaving the launch canister, they are opened by turning back.

The MMP rocket is proposed to be supplied, stored and used together with the transport-launch container. The latter is a plastic pipe with a length of 1,4 m with hermetic end caps and fixtures for mounting on the launcher. For greater convenience of operation, TPK has a carrying handle and shock absorbers made of soft material at the ends, preventing impacts during transport or storage. During the entire storage period, the rocket in TPK does not need any maintenance. The container with the rocket weighs 15 kg.

At the head of the rocket body are the guidance systems of the original composition. Specific requirements for the combat capabilities of the product led to the use of a combined pointing head with a camera and an uncooled infrared unit. In addition, in some situations, the rocket must use the built-in inertial navigation system. The used combined guidance equipment has led to the need for two-way communication between the rocket and the launcher. To do this, the MMP project used fiber optic cable stored on a coil in the tail section of the rocket.


Test run


The rocket of the new type is equipped with a solid-fuel engine and a starting accelerator. A compact tail booster is used to eject the rocket from the transport and launch container and initial acceleration. A characteristic feature of the launch of a rocket is a significant reduction in the amount of emitted gases, which, among other things, makes it possible to use MMP anti-tank systems not only in open spaces, but also in rooms. It also reduces the risks for fighters who are in close proximity to the launcher. After moving away from the launcher for a certain distance, the cruising engine is turned on with full thrust. Parameters thrust and rocket speed has not yet been specified. According to the developer, the rocket is able to fly at a distance of up to 4,1 km.

To date, only a portable launcher has been developed for use by infantry. In the future, MBDA plans to design and offer customers a modified version of such a product, designed for mounting on self-propelled equipment. Apparently, the changes will be minimal and will affect only the design of the supports and the power supply system.

The infantry launcher offered to customers is a portable system with a full set of necessary equipment. For placement on different surfaces, the unit has an adjustable tripod. On the latter, all other units are mounted. To the left of the vertical axis of the installation, a single block of optical-electronic equipment is placed, which is responsible for finding targets and controlling the rocket. On its right side there are attachments for missiles TPK. Interestingly, the container with the ammunition is set at a certain angle to the horizon, because of which the rocket must be fired along an ascending trajectory.



The control unit has its own magnetic compass and satellite navigation system. There is a television camera, thermal imager and laser range finder. The signal from the opto-electronic devices is displayed in the operator's sight. The installation and the rocket are controlled with several levers and a set of buttons. Commands are transmitted to a fully digital control system, which is responsible for communication with the flying missile and the formation of control pulses. The same devices are responsible for receiving and processing the video signal from the onboard systems of the rocket. The portable launcher also has its own power source.

According to reports, the MMP anti-tank missile system has three modes of operation, expanding the range of tasks and increasing the efficiency of its use. The first - “shot and forgotten.” In this case, the operator selects the target and takes it to the automatic tracking. After the launch team, the electronics of the complex independently monitors the movement of the target and suggests a rocket at it. If necessary, can be used semi-automatic mode. In this case, the operator retains the aiming mark on the target, and the automatic system displays a rocket on it.

Of particular interest is the LOAL mode (Lock On After Launch - “Capture after launch”). For firing according to this method, the operator must have data of external targeting. Not seeing the target, the calculation should aim the rocket at the area of ​​the attacked object and launch. After the missile approaches the target, the operator can independently find it using a camera or a thermal imager signal. After that, the target is taken to the accompaniment and attacked. The presence of two optical channels allows you to use a rocket at any time of the day.



For the destruction of targets of various types of missile MMP carries a tandem cumulative warhead. According to the manufacturer, the warhead can penetrate up to 1000 mm of homogeneous armor or a concrete object up to 2 m thick. If necessary, the rocket can be used in the "kinetic" mode. To reduce collateral damage, the operator can turn off the fuse, after which the destruction of the target is carried out exclusively by the energy of the ammunition. It is alleged that the new high-power combat unit allows anti-tank systems to fight both obsolete or modern tanks, as well as various fortifications, buildings, firing points, etc.

Major design work under the Missile Moyenne Portée program was completed in 2013-14, after which tests of the new weapon began. During the tests, a large number of ground-based equipment tests were performed, as well as several dozen missile launches in various configurations and for various purposes. According to the results of all the necessary checks, the prospective anti-tank complex was recommended for serial production.



MBDA Missile Systems announced the launch of production of MMP-type missiles and launchers in June last year. In the foreseeable future, it was planned to bring the serial assembly of the complexes at the required pace, and then begin the delivery of finished products to the launch customer in the person of the French ground forces. As stated, the first serial MMP ATGMs should have been sent to the army in 2017. For several years, the army wants to get four hundred rocket launchers and 2850 missiles for them.

New missile systems are considered as a replacement for obsolete MILAN systems, which were put into service about 40 years ago. In addition, MMP ATGMs can at least complement slightly newer ERYX products used by the army since the early nineties. With the successful implementation of all existing plans, the French ground forces will be able to visibly upgrade their arsenals of portable anti-tank weapons. At the moment, the newest and most sophisticated complex of this kind is the import system Javelin, and in the foreseeable future, the domestic MMP will complement it in this role.

At the moment, only one contract for the supply of MBDA MMP complexes is known. The first and so far the only customer of such weapons is France. A promising missile system was repeatedly demonstrated at exhibitions of weapons and military equipment, where it could attract the attention of potential buyers from other countries. However, as far as is known, until the interest of foreign armies has led to the signing of contracts for the supply of weapons.



Judging by the published data, the newest French ATGM MMP is of great interest both from a technical point of view and in connection with the original concept underlying the project. Previous systems of this class were created with the aim of fighting the enemy’s armored vehicles, and the attack of various structures was only an additional function. In the case of the Missile Moyenne Portée complex, the task of the designers was initially to create a universal system with a multi-purpose rocket. Published information shows that MBDA specialists managed to find ways to create such weapons.

Nevertheless, it will be possible to speak with confidence about the correctness of the ideas and solutions applied only after the application of a promising complex in real combat conditions. MMP systems are still far from such checks, but the early start of arms deliveries to the army and the continuation of a number of armed conflicts may contribute to sending anti-tank systems to the front line.


On the materials of the sites:
http://mbda-systems.com/
http://armyrecognition.com/
http://army-technology.com/
http://janes.com/
64 comments
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  1. +2
    12 January 2017 06: 16
    Another complex where a rocket is more expensive than a tank.
    1. +3
      12 January 2017 09: 16
      If the price is so important, you can turn to the Chinese if they are a smartphone with a full package of electronics, networks, a camera, a gyroscope and so on. If they sell for a thousand rubles, I think it’s unlikely that Ptur will make pieces of bucks more expensive.
      But the French have a small army, and they have money, they can afford to boo, but they can’t fight with it.
      1. 0
        12 January 2017 22: 38
        If that were the case, then every country would rivet 5-point complexes like pies. No, the phone is consumer goods, but the good high-tech equipment is comparable in price with Western and Japanese counterparts. And the weapon is certainly not consumer goods and its lower price will cost TTX reductions and even the number of manufactured units of weather will not do.
        1. 0
          14 January 2017 06: 25
          They do not rivet, because there is little profit from the military-industrial complex, as for the "citizen", that's the whole logic.
          1. 0
            14 January 2017 06: 59
            What is not enough there, well, do not write nonsense.
  2. 0
    12 January 2017 07: 27
    Here is an analogue of my Scolopendra! Let's start with a similar one: it also starts with a vertical slope based on a small precharge.
    And now the flaws: with so many electronics, a soldier sits next to the PU - WHAT FOR?! Let them buy my Trailers, install 4-6 tubes with missiles on them, from the Trailer to the Gunner with optics - wire or Wi-Fi / bluetooth - and shoot to your health without revealing your - human - position! Or you can transfer these privileges to Borov with a truncated AI - and you yourself can go to catch frogs in a neighboring swamp ... And it doesn't look very good about remote control from another source - only a signal to launch, and guidance to a target - from the rocket TV camera. This, of course, is great: as in computer shooters you sit and see the results of your "activity", but for the Dzhamshuts you need something simpler and cheaper - my Scolopendras, for example. Here Comes the Trailer for all come in handy. And Hog will not be superfluous ... bully
  3. +6
    12 January 2017 08: 01
    When the armies of the main countries acquire KAZ in droves, our ATGMs will begin to depreciate and you still need to make a missile for aaki from above ... and then there will be an inertial system and a rangefinder manhole and an optical fiber and an infrared guidance head ... and the price.
    1. 0
      12 January 2017 08: 54
      Quote: Zaurbek
      make a rocket for aaki from above ... and then an inertial system and a manhole rangefinder and fiber will appear

      For "aaki"maybe optical fiber and will be required -" cloaku"to clean, for example, but to strike from the TOP with a missile, you need UAV gunners or control modules on a flexible wing" Sharp Eye "(launched by a missile - an analogue of Scolopendra) and radio control of missiles (Scolopendra?) flying along a highly ballistic / loitering curve, these elements. The launch of the ATGM itself can be carried out both from UAV-missile boxes, and Trailers placed along the front in the folds of the terrain.
      Everything has been invented for a long time and is waiting for its manufacturer ... bully
      1. +3
        13 January 2017 00: 50
        You seem to be regularly cleaned ... so vividly describe ... For an attack from above, a UAV is not needed. You need a magnetometer, laser rangefinder or IR seeker with "brains" in the rocket ...
    2. +4
      12 January 2017 09: 29
      "Attack from above" rather interferes with overcoming the KAZ. Especially now, when the process of mutual integration of KAZ and KOEP is taking place. All such missiles are low velocity, especially those like MMPs that provide a lock-on attack after launch. The operator should simply be given time to recognize the target and aim the missile

      The inertial system on the rocket is again necessary to ensure an attack with capture after launch. As well as a laser rangefinder with a cantilever on the launcher, which determine the coordinates and orient the installation in case of lack of access to the signals of the satellites of the global positioning system (by the way, the French always duplicate)

      So far, there are only two ways to overcome KAZ:
      - multiple coordinated launch from one angle to overload it
      - preliminary destruction of elements of KAZ with fragmentation ammunition

      The following are on the way:
      - a significant increase in missile speed (as on the American CKEM)
      - the use of REP and microwave ammunition to suppress elements of KAZ

      Defeat targets on top of this list is not included.
      1. 0
        12 January 2017 09: 47
        In order for the KAZ to work, constant radio emission is needed - the tank gives itself out and provokes an attack by "complicated and expensive" means. Well, this:
        Quote: Spade
        - multiple coordinated launch from one angle to overload it
        - preliminary destruction of elements of KAZ with fragmentation ammunition

        it is fully implemented by my cheap Scolopendras, both from above and in profile with full face..
        From all that has been said, only one conclusion follows: you need a lot of cheap ammunition with at least some guidance and massive means of delivery to the battlefield - and there dozens of missiles to extinguish dozens of missiles.
        And this is clearly not a mortar ... laughing
        1. +3
          12 January 2017 10: 05
          Quote: Aviagr
          For KAZ to work, constant radio emission is needed

          You should study more materiel. Now for detecting a missile, UV sensors working in passive mode are enough

          Quote: Aviagr
          it is completely realized by my cheap Scolopendras both from above and in profile with full face ..

          "... why is it cheap, if it can be expensive"
          Calling any guided weapons cheaper than unguided ammunition is at least very stupid.
          1. 0
            12 January 2017 10: 46
            Quote: Spade
            Now for detecting a missile, UV sensors working in passive mode are enough

            ...enough to detect the launch and calculate the trajectory - and if it is considered "dangerous", then AFAR turns on automatically to select the time and point of release of the anti-grenade - and this is
            and provokes an attack "complicated and expensive"by means.

            And what is the point of "hiding" if a battle is already underway and a rocket is flying at you? laughing

            Quote: Spade
            "... why is it cheap, if it can be expensive"

            “Our entire military-industrial complex is being built according to this managerial rule, but this does not add to effectiveness. Syria is a good example.”
            Are you part of a sawmill circle?
            1. +2
              12 January 2017 11: 17
              Quote: Aviagr
              enough to detect the launch and calculate the trajectory - and if it is considered "dangerous", then AFAR turns on automatically to select the time and point of release of the anti-grenade - and this is

              For exposing an airtight curtain in the optical, infrared, ultraviolet, and microwave ranges, or shooting off microwave ammunition, enough data from the UV sensors is sufficient.

              Quote: Aviagr
              according to this managerial rule, our entire defense industry is being built

              And you follow them? You have appointed good "authorities" as an example
              1. 0
                12 January 2017 11: 27
                Quote: Spade
                And you follow them? You have appointed good "authorities" as an example

                So I’m just fighting them with all possible methods. And at the expense of prices - I I knowthat I have will be cheaper. You judge by the current sawing rates. For comparison, you can take cell phones from the beginning of the 90's now: the functions have grown many times - and the cost has fallen almost the same way! No need to live the remnants of the old and fake!

                Quote: Spade
                For exposing an airtight curtain in the optical, infrared, ultraviolet, and microwave ranges, or shooting off microwave ammunition, enough data from the UV sensors is sufficient.

                How many times will he have time to deliver it?
                How far is the tank itself removed from battle in these settings?
                How long will this protection last?
                - there are a lot of questions, again when attacking a tank from different directions, etc. - in any case, anti-tank weapons will find a gap and put the tank out of action / battle - then why is it needed? - to ONLY shoot back from ATGM ?! Marasmus!
                1. +3
                  12 January 2017 12: 05
                  Quote: Aviagr
                  So I’m just fighting them with all possible methods.

                  Want to redirect cash flows to useless weapons in your pockets? Because you offer solutions even more expensive and even more useless?

                  Quote: Aviagr
                  How many times will he have time to deliver it?

                  Count. Photos "Armat" in the Internet sea.
                  Quote: Aviagr
                  there are a lot of questions, again when attacking a tank from different directions, etc. - in any case, anti-tank weapons will find a gap and put the tank out of action / more

                  He does not stand still, but rides, and even shoots, that’s an infection, right? And characteristically, he is not alone. And his actions are provided by many, starting with aviation and artillery, and REP with air defense ending.
                  1. +1
                    12 January 2017 12: 11
                    Quote: Spade
                    does not stand still, but rides, and even shoots, that’s an infection, right?

                    Is going? - left the delivered cloud - immediately received the next ATGM.
                    Shoots? - Where to? - He also blocked everything for himself, both with a cloud and with dust from an explosion, anti-grenades and ATGM systems.
                    Again, I will refer to the experience of Syria, although I myself do not like it: there tanks were shot from 2-3 km - and almost never there was a "response", although there were some... You should have known that the tank also has restrictions on "all-seeing" ..
                    There was no place left for tanks on the battlefield - quite ...
                    1. +1
                      12 January 2017 12: 46
                      Quote: Aviagr
                      Shoots? - Where? - He also blocked everything for himself, both with a cloud and with dust from an explosion of a anti-grenade and ATGM.

                      Oh....
                      I categorically remind you: there is not one tank on the battlefield.
                      1. 0
                        12 January 2017 12: 59
                        So show, lover of examples, how much in Karabakh, Mosul, Yemen, Syria, Libya and other places - so far, apart from burnt tanks, I have not seen anything (and there the enemy of the "tank" - barefoot arab in a general sense, at least sometimes with the Israeli Spikes and Charons).
                        And then it will be worse: with the development of UAVs and robotic anti-tank weapons ...
          2. 0
            12 January 2017 10: 51
            Quote: Spade
            Calling any guided weapons cheaper than unguided ammunition is at least very stupid.

            Stupid to lose the war and give their lives and the fate of children and relatives into the hands of the enemy: the Indians used cheap bows and arrows - their "professorship" did not help against the slightly more expensive firearms of "foolish conquistadors" ...
            There is a concept of "price / efficiency" - this indicator is more important in a military environment than the misconceptions of some coasters for caps...
            1. +3
              12 January 2017 11: 23
              Quote: Aviagr
              There is a concept of "price / efficiency" - this indicator is more important in a military environment than the delusions of some coasters for caps ...

              Exactly. And when some with couch notions of tactics suggest something that is less effective, but much more expensive, "cap coasters" scratch in the back of the head. With the question "why is it worse and more expensive, if better and cheaper"

              Just "coasters for caps" through centuries of attack on the rake still came to the only correct conclusion "the wunderwaffe does not exist," whatever the sofa tactics think about it.

              I read you and remember the phrase of our engineering teacher. "Tactics are like football, everyone understands it ..."
              1. +2
                12 January 2017 11: 36
                Quote: Spade
                what is less efficient, but much more expensive, "

                On this occasion, I already gave a comparison phones - Do not hold the elephant for x..obot.
                Well, for tactics - it’s time for such a long time metram just shoot yourself, once in Syria for two years chasing barefoot barley men with no apparent chance of success ..
                Tactics are actions leading to victory.
                And you have a whining, an explanation - why it didn’t work, sawing post-chicks with Caliber and airplanes from Kuzi - into the water ...
                And where was it "cheap" - show me ?! Where is effective ?!
                But the Americans, at least mosquitoes algorithms are debugged, devices are being worked on - i.e. go in the right direction, albeit saw - but GO!
                1. +3
                  12 January 2017 12: 00
                  Quote: Aviagr
                  Well and tactics - it’s high time for such masters to just shoot themselves, once in Syria they have been driving barefoot barmales for two years with no apparent chance of success ..

                  Now, if I now begin to tell you how to correctly calculate the wheel hub of your "Trailer", which has no analogue in the world, you will start screaming about "dilettantes who poke themselves into what they do not understand"
                  However, at the same time, you consider yourself entitled to issue peremptory statements on tactics in which you are a complete oak, even the phrases "support band" or "order of battle" are baffling you.

                  Don't you think this is somewhat ... wrong?

                  Tactics is a science. With a powerful mathematical apparatus. Much more complicated than a thermome or sopromat.
                  1. +3
                    12 January 2017 12: 06
                    Tactic changes with the development of technology - and you are all preparing for the "past" war. Yes, even with the barmaley using the technique of the "past" war you cannot cope - what will you do when drones, missiles, tankettes, etc., fly at you from all sides? Once "twisted", putting more than 20 million people - will there be second chance?
                    1. +3
                      12 January 2017 12: 19
                      Quote: Aviagr
                      you are all preparing for the "past" war

                      - Do not recall in which room we have Napoleon? wink
                      1. +2
                        12 January 2017 12: 24
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        don't remind which ward

                        - every day she walks past her to the toilet, but she cannot remember, it’s painful ...
                        This is what it means: getting a tank hatch in the head - even a "talking" hat does not help .. Now he is still learning to move his ears - square ones ...
  4. 0
    12 January 2017 08: 10
    Previous systems of this class were created with the aim of combating enemy armored vehicles, and the attack of various structures was only an additional function.

    Ours should think hard about including a cheap rocket in the ammunition load of the same "Kornet" to combat fortifications and other targets (high-explosive and thermobaric).
    It seems that this is becoming more and more relevant following the results of the same Syria, and to shoot with a regular one is a little expensive.
    1. +1
      12 January 2017 09: 10
      Quote: Nikkola Mac
      Ours should think hard about including a cheap rocket in the ammunition load of the same "Kornet" to combat fortifications and other targets (high-explosive and thermobaric).


      To combat the strengthening of positions in all domestic Ptur, starting from the mestizo, high-explosive or thermobaric warhead missiles are launched, in fact, this was their main purpose until recently.
      1. 0
        12 January 2017 09: 21
        This is not the question - the rocket itself should be cheaper - the guidance system is sharpened just for a stationary target. The weight of explosives can be made more by simplifying the guidance system.
        1. +4
          12 January 2017 09: 38
          Quote: Nikkola Mac
          The weight of explosives can be made more by simplifying the guidance system.

          Will not work. And, for example, with Metis, there is nowhere to simplify further. There, on the "smart" rocket itself, only steering machines. 8))) Even the rotation control is carried out from the launcher, and not using the gyroscope on the rocket.

          Rather, it makes sense to re-equip obsolete anti-tank ammunition with fragmentation and thermobaric warheads. Does not ensure the defeat of modern tanks. For example, missiles 9М111 for "Fagot" / "Konkurs"
          1. 0
            12 January 2017 11: 02
            And, for example, with Metis, there’s nowhere to simplify further.

            Naturally, there is almost nothing to simplify on the old ATGMs - they are already so simple.
            But let's say to put the same steering gear and control along the tracer from the launcher for the Kornet rocket? The target does not move. The correction is minimal.
            And instead of an expensive full-time rocket (with the same high-explosive and thermobaric part), you can develop a cheap option - somewhat more expensive than the RS. In theory, reliability and shelf life should increase.
            And if it turns out that there are actually 9 such goals on the battlefield and only 1 is mobile - the gain is obvious.
            In general, it seems to me that, say, in Aleppo this ratio of goals was for the Syrians (a little more mobile for the barmaley).
            1. 0
              12 January 2017 11: 16
              Quote: Nikkola Mac
              You can develop a cheap option - a little more expensive than the PC. In theory, reliability and shelf life should increase.

              scolopendra?!
              Moreover, the guidance system is taken from the modernized Shturm, which is translated into "digital" - for the possibility of simultaneous control of dozens of missiles by a personal code. Pull the antennas away from the Gunner to disguise him from the "advanced" enemy, but for close combat and all sorts of "Syria" Borov with web cameras is enough.
              The main thing: a cheap, massive, but - guided missile. And unpretentious PU with the possibility of towing / delivery to the battlefield anything - trailer soldier
              1. +3
                12 January 2017 12: 11
                Quote: Aviagr
                Moreover, the guidance system is taken from the modernized Sturm

                Boo-ha-ha ....
                Do you have the slightest idea about the 9P149M "guidance system" ??????
                1. 0
                  12 January 2017 12: 15
                  Quote: Spade
                  modernized Assault

                  Although I could take Popov as an example from his radio - what details are you interested in? Although I have long been free I do not give inquiries ...
                  1. +3
                    12 January 2017 12: 31
                    If you have no idea what the "Shturm" "guidance system" is, then you know nothing about the upgraded version of this SPTRK 9P149M. This is an understandable situation.
                    But then what is the point of mentioning it? In order to create a false impression that you know something?
                    1. 0
                      12 January 2017 12: 49
                      Quote: Spade
                      then you don’t know anything about the upgraded version of this SPTRK 9П149М.

                      This "modification" is still There is no - it SHOULD be created - according to my requirements - management of dozens of Skolopendras. I don't need your "white bull" ..
                      1. +1
                        12 January 2017 12: 53
                        Quote: Aviagr
                        This "modification" does not exist yet - it SHOULD be created - according to my requirements

                        Y-yes ....
                        And why SPTRK "Shturm", and not, for example, a bridgelayer? The scope of modernization will be approximately the same
                        eight))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

                        By the way, a small educational program: the guidance system and the control system are two different things.
            2. +1
              12 January 2017 11: 25
              Quote: Nikkola Mac
              But let's say to put the same steering gear and control along the tracer from the launcher for the Kornet rocket? The target does not move. The correction is minimal.

              Complete rework launcher. Install a coordinator, control system, missile command transfer system. In short, it will be two times harder.

              With "Cornet" not an option.
              1. +1
                12 January 2017 11: 55
                It will not work harder, although the control system will change (somewhere in addition to the existing one, somewhere separately) - most likely you can adapt a regular target tracking machine.
                The whole question will rest - and whether this whole concept (including the control system limit) will be economically effective. Is the game worth the candle? If the price of a rocket drops by 70% -50%, then it’s worth it, if it’s less, then it’s easier to work with what it is.
                1. +2
                  12 January 2017 12: 27
                  Quote: Nikkola Mac
                  It will not work harder, although the control system will change

                  And it cannot be changed. At the moment, laser-beam control (aka "laser path") is the most noise-immune of the existing ones. Even the complexes of the third generation "spit" on this basis.

                  Quote: Nikkola Mac
                  The whole question will rest - and whether this whole concept (including the control system limit) will be economically effective. Is the game worth the candle? If the price of a rocket drops by 70% -50%, then it’s worth it, if it’s less, then it’s easier to work with what it is.

                  Economically, I think it will be easier to pay attention to lighter solutions. than "Cornet". It's still too heavy a rocket to hit one machine gunner in the window with it. And dragging the launcher to a place from which you can use it is quite stressful. Wearable-transportable complex with all that it implies. Not portable.

                  The best option, I think, is to get from our military-industrial complex a cheap semi-active laser seeker and dance from it. Up to a guided grenade fired from a grenade launcher.
                  1. +1
                    12 January 2017 14: 02
                    But it can not be changed.

                    Firstly, no one talks about replacing, given that the declared characteristics of the Kornet have an automatic guidance system (automatic target acquisition and tracking), this means that the question comes down to a switch to another mode - basically, to change the software. Otherwise, you can use all the capabilities of the Cornet - thermal and conventional sight, rangefinder, etc.
                    Only in our case, the machine will not track the target, but the tracer on the rocket - and combine it with a marker superimposed on a fixed target. Of course you can’t do without steering the steering cars (if by wire) - but it’s quite simple to implement everything (in reality, the Cornet machine generates a signal to the laser). The target is a simple, cheap, long-range missile for firing at a stationary target with high accuracy. She does not need the ability to shoot at a moving target, maneuvers with large overloads, etc. .. She is more important weight explosives and accessibility.
                    If there is an opportunity to make cheap with laser control - for God's sake, but it seems to me that it will hardly differ from an ordinary rocket in cost.
                    And yet this idea should dance from the economy - does it make sense.
                    Since, as it was said above, there is no sense for "Metis" - it is easier to take the existing one (maybe the bay is bigger than BB).
                    Wearable complex with all the consequences. Not portable.

                    But then it’s easier to roll a self-propelled gun and destroy targets from it - a cheap projectile and sufficient accuracy.
                    Here the meaning is precisely in mobility and small dimensions.
                    1. 0
                      12 January 2017 14: 32
                      Quote: Nikkola Mac
                      then it’s easier to roll a self-propelled gun

                      Already we were analyzing: the sect "but what for us ?!" stubbornly does not see RESPONSE threat when entering DIRECT aiming - and without it you will not hit the target "for sure" the first time.
                      It remains the only correct my version: hundreds of radio-guided missiles starting slightly from the rear (from the folds of the terrain, from behind buildings, trees - in general, shelters), but taking on the "control" of front-line guidance systems (including UAVs) - well, then as written.
                      And these Skolopendras will simply stupidly extinguish any KAZ and DZ, and there’s nothing to say about stationary firing points ...
                      Need - cheap rockets - Scolopendras, Need - Means of their delivery to the front line - Trailers, Need - Distributed Gunners - Hogs, UAVs, Jamshuts ...
                      And as in any other situation, the percentage of cheap-expensive-super-expensive PT funds should be 90-9-1%, i.e. Scolopendra should constitute the predominant part (90%), Cornets / Metis / Sturms - 9%, and hypersonic "shovels" - 1%. This is arms balance.
                      1. 0
                        12 January 2017 22: 31
                        You write some kind of snowstorm here, which, at the current level of technology, cannot be reached for the money you charge.
                      2. 0
                        13 January 2017 21: 30
                        Yes, you can make an ATGM with a sharp climb in front of the target, and then accelerate to several swings - right into the roof of the tank, at an angle of 85 degrees, and there is a KAZ dead zone - and "hello" to the tank.
                      3. 0
                        14 January 2017 06: 21
                        I read a little of your comments, and what I want to say ...
                        Quote: Aviagr
                        only correct my version

                        1. Don't be so ... You are not d'Artagnan, and there is no pi ... the cardinal's guards. There are people who, like you, have their own brains and their cockroaches. Many have and combat experience about which you have, I am tormented by vague doubts.
                        2. Since you are such a smart (why not rich?) Person, you probably already have the title of weapons designer / inventor (in order to avoid problems with the Law) and have submitted an appropriate application to the Ministry of Defense for considering your invention for adoption, of course with preliminary theoretical justification and testing ?!
  5. 0
    12 January 2017 10: 01
    Yes. It is time for our designers to offer something in this type of weapon, or you can still be left behind ...
    1. +2
      12 January 2017 10: 24
      Already behind. Although, on the other hand, the capabilities of second-generation complexes are by no means exhausted. But they are rather in the field of application methods.

      Remote-controlled launchers, like in Belarus, the allocation for anti-tank systems on armored vehicles of a separate stabilized control system with ACS, the use of control systems on the elevator to ensure firing from behind the crest of the shelter.
      Well, the main thing is the inclusion of all launchers in a single control and target designation system. The appearance of "Commander" is the right step in the right direction. First step.

      For the missiles themselves, an increase in their speeds to hypersound, equipping them with REP complexes, ensuring the destruction of targets on the span to destroy armored objects in the trenches
      1. 0
        12 January 2017 10: 59
        Quote: Spade
        an increase in their speeds to hypersound,

        It's time to change the pillows on the "sofa" - they are soaked through and through from such "wet dreams" ... laughing
        Better come on about the wheelsets of mortar carts - there even though the nonsense looks more like nagging ...
        1. +4
          12 January 2017 11: 34
          Quote: Aviagr
          It's time to change the pillows on the "sofa" - they are soaked through and through from such "wet dreams" ...

          Your misfortune is complete illiteracy.
          Such missiles were created in the last century. Just with the collapse of the USSR, the Americans no longer needed them. However, the development is not stopped. American programs LOSAT, KEM, HATM, AAWS-H, ACTD, MGM-166A ... Now work is underway on SCEM. At the moment, 45 kg, 8 km range and 6M speed, confirmed by tests.
          1. 0
            12 January 2017 11: 45
            Quote: Spade
            Now work is underway

            .. railgun and mobile laser systems. Oh yes, there was also SDI, etc. - Someone here is all about "expensive and inefficient"recalled ... wassat
            It’s already much easier and cheaper for them to put their nuclear planning bombs on UAVs (they have already been used up and delivered to Europe) and bombed with 20km — at least tanks, at least other objects ..
            Do not read bourgeois newspapers before dinner .. (c)
            1. +4
              12 January 2017 12: 09
              Not just illiteracy, but militant illiteracy.
              1. 0
                12 January 2017 12: 19
                Is it a railgun ... or a laser? Although what's the difference - what billions to write off ...
                You are so fond of jumping from one (.. why is it cheap ..) "position" to another (hypersound for portable ATGMs - 45kg !!) that I am already starting to wonder about your orientation - was there a "rubber" Nona - maybe Non ?! wassat
                1. +1
                  12 January 2017 22: 51
                  You are welcome. Here is the losat
              2. +1
                12 January 2017 22: 48
                The infernal device was LOSAT: a hypersonic "crowbar" controlled. 30 years ago. The only problem was the super-high cost of the unit.
                1. +1
                  13 January 2017 11: 00
                  The problem was that he could only work on tanks and other armored vehicles. And the tasks of the US Army have changed
                2. 0
                  13 January 2017 21: 23
                  They continue to work on these hypersonic - kinetic missiles even now - no KAZ will save them, and the tank will be completely destroyed, the sub-caliber core "in the core" will break everything through - right through.
  6. +1
    12 January 2017 10: 45
    The French made their Spike, in general :)
    1. 0
      13 January 2017 21: 24
      The Germans also did -PTRK Inforcer
  7. 0
    12 January 2017 11: 08
    Who are they going to fight with? Whose tanks to burn?
    For export to Africa, and old ATGMs will be enough.
  8. 0
    12 January 2017 13: 20
    Lopatov,
    Quote: Spade
    guidance system and control system are two different things.

    A Pluto planet or big asteroid?! Pluto himself is probably on a drum as he is called by the pitiful creatures from the "big round stone" .. laughing
    Now we are not writing a dissertation with a list of abbreviations and accepted concepts - yes, I need a radio transmission path from Sturm basically, but maybe something else will do - this is again in the continuation of "expensive / cheap": if there is already something in the industry - I I will use it (albeit with modifications), but Scolopendra - noTrailer - no, Borova - no - I develop them myself.
    And by the way, about hub: my size depends on the BEARING, and not vice versa - how all the designers work now according to canons Sopromat and Termeha, which would have performed it like a mortar cart - I have to the hub (and wheel) their requirements. As, however, to all their products - why they become the best in the world - and new standards to follow ..
  9. +2
    12 January 2017 13: 47
    Guys! What to do then? I wanted to put in a word, but it didn't work! The entire "territory" of Lopatov and Viagra was captured! To "listen to" them to the end, stock up on vodka! But I won't drink that much!
    1. 0
      12 January 2017 14: 10
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      stock up on vodka! But I won’t drink so much!

      The main thing is to stock up, and there we will help ... drinks
      Lopatov and I have an eternal dispute between the "conservative strong past" and the "promising unstable future" - although we make fun of each other, but without rampant attacks (like the Cat of Zero Man) laughing
      1. +2
        12 January 2017 15: 53
        And from which side is "conservative" and from which side is "promising"? request And then you will "listen" - exactly, the need to drink appears ..... so that the brains float to the surface fool PS And do not mind the vodka, come in!
        1. 0
          12 January 2017 16: 45
          To get started, read the articles on my Profile. Then - read it a second time With comments.
          Then, if you have questions, ask. laughing