War and money (thinking out loud)

71
As Marshal Jan-Jacopo Trivoulzio (1448 — 1518) said, three things are needed for war: money, money, and again money.

That's about them, and I want to talk.





I once watched a film about a coalition war in Afghanistan. The numbers are amazing. It turned out that the cost of keeping a single coalition soldier per year is about $ 1.000.000 (if the total number of troops is just over 120.000, we get $ 120.000.000.000). And this is despite the fact that during the year it was killed (more precisely, incapacitated) around 12.000 Taliban fighters. As a result, the price of incapacitating a gangster was $ 10.000.000!

"It can not be!" - You say. In fact, this figure should be more in 5-10 more, because it does not take into account the costs associated with losses (insurance payments), the long-term rehabilitation of soldiers who were injured, and many other expenses. Let's increase the index 5 times. We get $ 50.000.000 for one Taliban terrorist. This amount is comparable to the price of one, or even several modern aircraft! It seems to me that this is VERY MUCH. I ask you to note that this is with FULL superiority in almost all components of the database (lack of air defense, counter battery, rocket and many other types of weapons, etc.). Otherwise, when maintaining a database with an opponent of equal strength and armament, the cost would increase by orders of magnitude. And I want to ask a question: do taxpayers know about this, or at least guess?

Now about some features of how the coalition fought in Afghanistan, which are very revealing and instructive at the same time. Here is just one episode: in conjunction with the Afghan Armed Forces, an operation is being carried out to clean up a certain territory (by the forces of one battalion of the coalition and one battalion of Afghans). In time (preparation, conduct, departure), the operation took about two weeks. During this time, units were bombarded several times by Taliban fighters, and only in one case, after countless shootings, watering the territory with automatic grenade launchers and heavy machine guns, artillery preparation from howitzers and calling aviation the complex of houses in which there were 2 terrorists was wiped off the face of the earth.

And now about the money. 1 battalion + gunners + pilots (about 500 people in total) * $ 1000000 * (14 days / 365) = $ 19.000.000. We get the cost of eliminating 2 terrorists: $ 19.000.000, or $ 9.500.000 for a terrorist, which almost coincides with the estimate given above.

The magic of $ 10.000.000 just fascinates me. Gaddafi paid $ 10.000.000 to the victims of the terrorist attack, the Australians brought a lawsuit against Russia for $ 10.000.000 for the passenger of the plane shot down in the Donbas ... It’s like this: the terrorist and the victim are the same? Well, okay, this is so, by the way. Probably just a coincidence. Let's just note about ourselves and remember that the price of the life of the victim today is estimated at $ 10.000.000.

If we assume that for the complete destruction of the Taliban, 50.000 Talibs must be disabled, then the coalition will have to pay 50.000 * $ 10.000.000 = $ 500.000.000.000, which is comparable to the annual US military budget. From the above, a simple and simultaneously shocking conclusion can be made. With the existing model of combat operations, the coalition will NEVER WIN TALIBAN and ISIL (prohibited in Russia). Resources are not enough. Unfortunately, the coalition realized this only after 10 years and began to urgently look for cheaper options for warfare, the most natural of which was the involvement of local armies, since the price of human life for these armies is orders of magnitude lower than that of the coalition.

However, the situation is actually much worse. After all, if simple peasants were killed in the destroyed house, and they had relatives, then, having eliminated two terrorists, the coalition created, perhaps, 4 or 10 new ones, who will be registered in the Taliban ranks and will fight. It is good if no one else died there, or only one surviving relative is recorded in the Taliban. Otherwise, the number of terrorists will only grow, which happened in reality, since the number of Taliban fighters is only increasing, and with the departure of the coalition, it has significantly expanded the zone of influence, and substantial financial resources are required in order to keep the situation and the rest territory under control.

If you look at the whole situation from the point of view of business, then we have the IDEAL picture. The more terrorists there are, the more resources are needed to combat them, and these are growing contracts, jobs and increasing profits for suppliers. weapons - mainly from coalition countries. Here is a circle and closed! Only one inconvenience: their soldiers are dying, and this causes great political damage and causes discontent among the population in the coalition countries. Although this problem can be solved to some extent by investing in propaganda and manipulating public opinion. But there are certain limits and limitations in the form of the number of soldiers killed. If these losses are unacceptable, no money for propaganda is enough. That is, the balance does not converge (will be negative), and the policy being pursued will be a failure. So ALL politicians (if they are not complete idiots, which sometimes have to be doubted) are very well aware of what the "pain threshold" of the population is, and try not to approach it. If the coalition could fight WITHOUT LOSS, then it would ALWAYS fight and EVERYWHERE, because war, if properly organized, is an inexhaustible source of consumption of expensive high-tech resources and a source of perpetual development (for arms dealers). And if it is also directed against certain states that are in fact competitors for coalition countries (a potential Taliban invasion of Central Asia, the Caucasus, Russia), then just a fairy tale will come for the ears and pockets of corporate owners from coalition countries. Actually, all the conflicts of the last decades went exactly according to this scenario. Nothing new: after all, money does not smell, and nobody has canceled enrichment as a goal ...

Now fast forward to the long-suffering Syria. Wonderful ancient land, beautiful, friendly people. Looking at the gigantic, striking destruction, especially in the zone of the former military actions, it is impossible to comprehend HOW all this could be endured. I bow to this people.

Now about the money. Naturally, Qatar and the SA have many times more money than the Syrians, and the outcome of the war was predetermined by this circumstance. But the intervention of Russia brought some uncertainty, because money solves a lot, but not everything, and Russia is not a poor country. I recall that in one of the reports by Dubova from Donbass I noticed and commented on a large number of ATGM wires hanging on tree branches: they say that in Syria ATGMs are a luxury ... What do we see today? Syrians mock ATGM for single terrorists and their groups (not for tanks, BTR, etc.), and our specialists, in the comments on these YouTube videos, swear them for this and demand that they be brought to the tribunal for misuse of a very expensive resource (ATGM). The picture is almost identical to what it was in Afghanistan, when grenade launchers fired on "spirits", even if it was a solitary bandit.

And if we see how a bullet is fired from an ATGM by a single terrorist, then most likely this indicates the absence of suitable weapons: the fighters use what they have. After all, when shooting at a bear running at you, the price of cartridges is nothing compared to your life. So it is in Syria, and everywhere in the world. The price of weapons is incomparable with the price of human life. But this is only on condition that the resource is renewed ... After all, if you have an 1 ATGM or one cartridge left, and there will be no more, then the maximum that you can afford is to shoot for sure and only at significant targets.

If the gangster attacked you and caused you damage, then it is only natural that after being arrested and convicted, he will have to compensate you for all the damage suffered ... It is reasonable and logical. And if the court proves that his friends helped him in any form, the court will determine the contribution and measure of responsibility of everyone in the crime and “fraternally divide” the offenders' compensation to the victim. I think this is fair. Oh, if the same rules were used in interstate relations! Just imagine: they attacked Iraq, motivating the war by the presence of weapons of mass destruction, and there it was not. And have to pay compensation. According to some estimates, more than 1.500.000 Iraqis were killed, for a total of 1.500.000 * $ 10.000.000 = $ 15.000.000.000.000 + for housing and infrastructure destroyed by the war. Trillions 30-40 will turn out, that is equivalent approximately to two annual gross national product of the USA. After that, well, very scrupulously and reluctantly will approach the decision-making about the war ... Yes, dreams, dreams!

We descend on the sinful earth.

The Internet is overloaded with videos. In the frames, we see tanks and guns firing, planes flying, dropping bombs, Grads, Smerches and Buratino working, ISIS terrorists, and government fighters shooting, DO NOT GOING, lifting the machine gun above the wall or parastroke trench When you read the reports from the battlefields, you are surprised to find that the losses amounted to 2-3, well, 10-15 gangsters ... After that, taking a calculator, you try to figure out what the price of such hostilities is. And how much can you stretch financially. Once in the US Congress it turned out that by spending $ 500.000.000 on preparing 5 (five) Syrian opposition fighters, which is equivalent to $ 100.000.000 per fighter or, by comparison, two (or more) most modern combat aircraft for one fighter of the opposition, it became clear that their soldiers are much cheaper ($ 1.000.000 for a soldier per year), and urgently the sending of special forces to Syria was arranged.

By the way, did anyone see or know the real figures of the value of the database in Syria for Russia, besides those that were announced by the president? Of course, they should be several times smaller than the coalition, but not an order of magnitude. Well, the most significant factor is the cost of our soldiers ... Yes, the cost or price, if you like, which varied in Russia from 0 (Zhukov’s famous saying about the expediency of losses during the storming of Berlin: Russian women give birth to new 25 salaries to each beneficiary) Today. Let's take 100 salaries (wife and 3 children) and 100.000 rubles = 10.000.000 rubles, or $ 200.000. Apparently, this corresponds to reality. Here the Turks offered compensation in $ 100.000 for our shot pilot. Yes, quite frankly, a little ... Especially when people talk about the pricelessness of human life from various tribunes. Actually, the cost of a soldier (as of any citizen in general) is determined by the socio-economic conditions in each given country and the prevailing market conditions in the labor market. And any state in this sense is ruthless. For example, in England, for example, marines are recruited - volunteers from the street, and the main contingent is unemployed, unsettled, undecided, very rarely ideological young people who are sent to the combat zone after 28 days of intensive training ... They learn everything from scratch starting with how to wash properly, use personal hygiene products and ending with the basics of mountain training, tactics of conducting urban combat, shooting training, etc. Rather intensive training, no clothes (just kicked out on the street), duty in the kitchen, washing the barracks and other nonsense ... But the sergeants strictly follow the discipline. People are consciously prepared to survive in the war, and everything is subordinated to this main goal. At the slightest violation of the regime, disobeying orders, they are simply thrown out of the gates of the training center, since the punishment does not make sense. It is simply expensive and unfair to prepare and take an inadequate person to a war, where other people or he himself can be killed through his fault (you have to pay for this). So everything is quite pragmatic and straightforward. Cannon fodder costs differently and has different varieties. As we see, war is a very dirty business, expensive, and everyone quite consciously and purposefully wants to minimize risks and costs. Russia, by the way, is no exception.

When you observe and analyze the developing armed conflicts in various countries of the world, even with the naked eye you see the dead end of the existing models and methods of warfare. Quite often, indiscriminate weapons are used against terrorists. Either innocent people die, or the cost of eliminating terrorists brings entire countries to their knees and, in principle, does not solve the task. An example is pirates in Somalia. And as an example of the utter failure of the use of indiscriminate weapons, we can recall the indicators associated with the use of drones United States for the destruction of terrorists: the latter turned out to be only 4% of the destroyed people! It would be nice to legally oblige to pay $ 10.000.000 (and not buy off ten sheep) for each civilian killed by mistake! Yes, put in jail as a war criminal (for life). There would immediately be fewer lovers of shooting at civilians. After all, the UN declared the equality of all people on Earth!

In this case, all the talk about collateral and unforeseen losses among civilians would stop very quickly. I imagine how the US President explains to the Americans why the police needed to kill 96 hostages-Americans in order to kill the 4 terrorists ... I think after that oh how many officials would have resigned, and the president would be excommunicated at best ... I don’t want to talk about the worst.

What is it: complete incompetence or, on the contrary, a well-planned operation, which has ALL OTHER OBJECTIVES AND TASKS, hidden from the attention of the public? Any theory is tested on boundary conditions. Really, having the experience of Korea, Vietnam and many other unleashed conflicts, has the coalition got involved in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and now Syria without any hope of victory? And at the cost of destroying one terrorist in $ 10.000.000, the price of victory becomes simply unaffordable, even for the US budget. What made the coalition sit in Afghanistan for about 10 years, spend a total of more than 1 trillion dollars, but did not achieve any significant results? For some reason, only after 10 years of intrigue, ordeal, and completely unpromising hostilities, an emphasis was placed on using Afghan government forces! And even negotiations began with the Taliban, during which the negotiators tried to tune the Taliban to fight ISIS (oh, how familiar it all is!), And at the same time to minimize their involvement in the conflict, and most importantly, cut funding for the Afghan government to a possible minimum, while the Taliban’s entry into the government is down to zero. (By the way, the order of Russian helicopters for Afghanistan was dictated by the desire to reduce their own expenses for the maintenance of the Afghan army, and not something else. As usual, business, and nothing personal.) When the operation began in Afghanistan, there was no ISIL, nor Libya and Syria, and the national debt was at the level of two trillion, but now it is close to 20 trillion. So, perhaps, there were simply few financial resources, the specter of default loomed (which would be worse than a nuclear war), or the goal was achieved, and it did not defeat the Taliban or Al Qaeda (banned in Russia), and a completely different, more global, undeclared and therefore more dangerous goal with unpredictable consequences for many participants who are absolutely not ready for analysis, a new perception of the situation that arises and blindly following the route specified by the leader.

You did not notice that if people have money (I mean MONEY), then they become independent? Some of them are starting to buy yachts or football clubs, while others are starting to invest in business development, new technologies, compete for new sales markets, and ultimately push out competitors from existing markets, create new markets, become main players, and reduce the taxable base. many states, which in itself boomerangs to the socio-economic situation of the population and ultimately to the stability of these states, reducing the possibilities for their further development. In the future, very quickly, such states cease to exist as independent, independent and are fully controlled by more powerful countries, up to the complete subordination of the economy and all the basic institutions of power. An example is all the Baltic countries or monarchies of the Persian Gulf, and for a long time. But it is, thinking out loud.

So, on the basis of the above, it is obvious that the conclusion is that there will be no serious war between Russia and the United States or Russia and NATO. For a very simple reason: the economy of one and the other countries is simply unable to sustain the costs of such wars, no matter how advanced and perfect this economy may be. Even the costs of war with technologically backward countries are becoming too heavy for the budget. In a war with an equal or superior rival in strength and technology, these costs should be at least an order of magnitude higher. And I am sure that all politicians (if, of course, they are not complete idiots) understand these realities very well.

And, of course, we must very seriously think about the cost of warfare and set ourselves the task of reducing it significantly (by orders of magnitude), if only we want to live normally and NOT SURVIVE, giving priority to cost-effective, rather than spectacular types of weapons possible unification and standardization - wherever possible.

It seems to me that the time has come to seriously think about creating high-precision, miniature, robotic, with elements of artificial intelligence means of warfare, the use of which is able to minimize the losses of the civilian population, infrastructure, means of production, housing, etc., and ultimately reverse situation and defeat any opponent in a matter of days (and not years). Moreover, all the necessary technologies for this, and most importantly, brains, are available in Russia.

After all, with the cost of destroying one gangster in 10 million, or even one million dollars, the country will be devastated very soon. There will be some next revolution with a long recovery period, in 20 — 50 years, or even disintegration and complete disappearance of the state from the political map of the world. Actually, this is what the West is seeking, using various pretexts and provocations to achieve its goal.
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  1. 0
    24 October 2016 15: 13
    Cheaper than all fenders to send to a neighboring galaxy, so that the Earth would be left alone.
    1. idr
      +2
      24 October 2016 15: 20
      So that they democratize her too?
      1. +5
        24 October 2016 15: 22
        Unhappy aliens!
        1. +2
          26 October 2016 12: 11
          The author does not take into account why Americans are doing this. Afghanistan - control over drug trafficking plus control over the extraction of rare earth metals. Iraq, Syria, Libya - oil. Ukraine - coal + plants, factories + black soil. Yugoslavia - elimination of competition + further promotion of its products and weapons, elimination of the influence of the Russian Federation. The Americans are calculating all the moves and their costs, I think they are paying off. The war with Russia is the prospect of seizing wealth and cutting it into the pockets of big people. So we should not relax, I do not agree with the author.
          1. Erg
            0
            26 October 2016 18: 14
            I also disagree with the author in many ways. There was enough money for the First World War, for the second ... When the heat goes, the question of salaries and compensations is unlikely to arise (the author amused himself here). First, the entire existing arsenal will be used (free of charge at this moment), and only then will the resource problem arise. If anyone will solve it ... hi
  2. +13
    24 October 2016 15: 41
    In my opinion, the author clearly went too far with the numbers.
    If you follow his calculations, then the USSR a priori could not win in the Second World War, and the Russian Federation would have simply "collapsed" from two Chechen companies.
    And what about Novorossia ... in Donetsk and Lugansk "printing presses" work without stopping or what?
    Money is necessary for the war, no doubt, but there are such concepts as patriotism, the willingness of the people to self-sacrifice ... without these qualities, no war, even with hundreds of trillions, can be won.
    1. +3
      24 October 2016 15: 47
      Do they (the Americans) have a willingness to sacrifice themselves? Patriotism (sometimes rushing from the ass) is met, but it quickly passes.
      1. 0
        28 October 2016 10: 16
        Quote: dmi.pris
        Do they (the Americans) have a willingness to sacrifice themselves? Patriotism (sometimes rushing from the ass) is met, but it quickly passes.

        Yes, yes, "the americans do it without cocacola."
    2. +5
      24 October 2016 16: 08
      Quote: kepmor
      In my opinion, the author clearly went too far with the numbers.

      Something may be wrong with the numbers, but the conclusions are correct.
      1. idr
        +1
        25 October 2016 09: 09
        No, the numbers are fine. They are even understated. I can give sources if in doubt.
        1. 0
          28 October 2016 10: 15
          Of course there are doubts, the author dances the whole article from fantasy numbers.
          1. idr
            0
            28 October 2016 15: 46
            Take a look at these links please:
            http://time.com/3651697/afghanistan-war-cost/
            or for all TVDs.
            http://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce
            /papers/2014/US%20Costs%20of%20Wars%20through%202
            014.pdf
    3. +17
      24 October 2016 16: 24
      15.41. Capmore! Or maybe he didn’t go too far. Just besides the cost of war. there are also benefits from war. Like a penny grenade launcher destroys a tank worth a million or a handheld penny MANPADS destroys a millionth flyer. In the case of color revolutions, we have a similar situation. Fighting with a penny machine we destroy the country's billionth economy. And what does the destruction of the country's economy mean? This is a guaranteed killing of a competitor. Effectively? Highly! Taking Afghanistan for example, we see the complete destruction of the economy. The economy of the Middle Ages Afghanistan and the high-tech USA. The difference in technology is significant. Therefore, the Americans did not want nuclear weapons in the USSR, imposed sanctions on the nuclear development of Iraq and the DPRK. It's not about the core itself. The point is the development of technologies related to the core. The USSR developing space and the core moved technologically to the top. Therefore, supporting terrorism, the United States maintains its high technological level. Is science really developing in Iraq or Libya? No. IN USA! Do they create conditions for smart heads? No. They suppress competition in other countries. Best minds go to America !? Well, they’re not going to Afghanistan! If foreigners make discoveries and developments in America, then these are the successes and achievements of America, and not the country where this individual came from. Therefore, the author of the article (in my opinion) did not show all the costs and benefits of wars. Here, as in the plot of Jumble. Around stupid first graders and the most intelligent is Sam. And of course the article is a plus. Fresh look (version) on the development of events. In the case of the Second World War and the heroism of the Soviet people, everything is true. That's just the readiness for self-sacrifice today saddled by other people and use for their own purposes. In World War II, self-destruction was heroism, and today it has become terrorism. And what are the costs of training suicide bombers? Material damage from self-blasting seems to be incomprehensible. Suppose 10 people are killed will not affect the balance of power, as well as 10 people killed from a shell burst. The effect is rather psychological (a sense of fear). On this subject, you probably need to write another article. As for printing machines LDNR I do not agree. The money itself does not carry any products. It’s rather just humanitarian aid to Russia. Moreover, it is far from critical for our economy. Helping Syria. But not the last pants and a piece of bread. You don’t seem to be helping. Why invest !? And that will be? I think the result of such savings is clear to everyone. Although the costs for our budget are pretty penny, the lack of spending will bring not only billions of dollars in losses, but it may also blow Russia. Here you have the ratio of costs, profits, damage. hi
      1. idr
        +5
        25 October 2016 03: 11
        Thank you for the smart and balanced comment. I definitely agree with your opinion. Here, in general, there may be such a mnogohodovka that Agatha Christie just resting. In my article, I relied in my conclusions only on published direct costs. Unfortunately we do not have the entire array of information for a more detailed analysis. But it is better to know at least part of the truth than not to know it at all.
    4. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. 0
          25 October 2016 05: 48
          sv1970 -
          Why "tyrit" other people's articles, and spread without reference to the author?
          1. +1
            25 October 2016 08: 16
            the author was indicated in the text and his book was also indicated, there was no link to the site. It was wrong, but the material was very out of place .... The cost of the war was always mad - which I confirmed ...
    5. +1
      24 October 2016 18: 00
      `` Money is necessary for the war, there is no doubt, but there are such concepts as patriotism, the readiness of the people to self-sacrifice ... without these qualities, no war can be won even with hundreds of trillions. '' These qualities are manifested mainly in the conduct of hostilities on their territory against foreign invaders. There has been no war on US territory for more than 150 years, and there has never been a war against external invaders. America has been fighting on foreign territory all the years, mainly waging wars of conquest, so where does patriotism and self-sacrifice come from in large quantities? Therefore, they are fighting vilely, not sparing the civilian population, but why pity the aborigines. And therefore, in case of defeat, they save the most valuable thing - their asses.
    6. idr
      0
      25 October 2016 01: 07
      Quote: kepmor
      In my opinion, the author clearly went too far with the numbers.


      More likely I didn’t, look at these links please
      http://time.com/3651697/afghanistan-war-cost/
      or for all TVDs.
      http://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce
      /papers/2014/US%20Costs%20of%20Wars%20through%202
      014.pdf
    7. idr
      0
      25 October 2016 02: 50
      Could you be more specific. What numbers do you think are wrong? I rather did not bend over.
      1. 0
        28 October 2016 10: 26
        These ones.
        Probably just a coincidence. Let's just note to ourselves and remember that the cost of a victim’s life today is estimated at $ 10.000.000

        Just give it to me, the author wanted it because of one particular case without taking into account other tasks of the unit.
  3. +12
    24 October 2016 15: 48
    I read it before it hit Zhukov and left it! Let the author learn how to use the sources! NEVER Marshal Zhukov didn’t carry such nonsense about a soldier!
    1. idr
      +2
      25 October 2016 00: 57
      Yes, I am not a historian, but the purpose of the article was not to slander Zhukov, but to show on his example the dynamics of the change in attitude to the value of human life in time. Actually, a lot of things are written about Zhukov, and this specific phrase is taken from here http://www.moscow-russia-insiders-guide.com/georg
      y-zhukov-monument-in-moscow.html
      1. +4
        25 October 2016 10: 28
        At the end of the meal, the liberal press has already grown up, all these attacks on Zhukov are the fruits of the blackening of our history and one of the best Marshals of the Victory that appeared after his death.
  4. +3
    24 October 2016 16: 03
    If you don’t earn money, but print, and personnel
    recruited from neighboring countries (Latinos), then you can fight ...!
    1. idr
      0
      25 October 2016 01: 08
      I totally agree.
  5. 0
    24 October 2016 16: 20
    Someone will say why not "subscribe to the comment"?
    10 million is conditional. The USA simply! "Their" people-offices "were given the opportunity to take xxxxx money for a certain job, the permit ended (both in time and in amount) ---" then take your overcoat, go home "The result was not achievable (they knew right away)
    1. idr
      0
      25 October 2016 01: 20
      No, not conditionally, but very real.
      http://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce
      /papers/2014/US%20Costs%20of%20Wars%20through%202
      014.pdf
      or
      http://time.com/3651697/afghanistan-war-cost/
      1. 0
        28 October 2016 10: 32
        Is this scientific research?
        On which page about 10 million?
  6. +6
    24 October 2016 16: 36
    Quote: Partizan Kramaha
    NEVER Marshal Zhukov did not carry such nonsense about a soldier!

    I agree! And even issued an order for negligent bosses, allowing large losses in manpower.
    1. idr
      0
      25 October 2016 01: 10
      Source:
      http://www.moscow-russia-insiders-guide.com/georg
      y-zhukov-monument-in-moscow.html
  7. +3
    24 October 2016 16: 36
    The author obviously got something wrong. Here are some "interesting" facts:
    Quote: from article
    Once I watched a film about the coalition war in Afghanistan. The numbers are amazing. It turned out that the cost of maintaining one coalition soldier per year is about $ 1.000.000 (with the total contingent a little over 120.000 people get $ 120.000.000.000).

    Firstly, no one spends $ 1.000.000 on each soldier per year. The author did not understand that each soldier of the coalition had $ 1.000.000 of all expenses, but this does not mean that a million was spent on each soldier.
    And the costs of $ 120.000.000.000 per year are not so high (given the fact that 48 states were invested in the operation). Moreover, part of the funds was spent on the creation of the Afghan army.
    Quote: from article
    I’ll ask you to note that this is with FULL superiority in almost all components of the database (lack of air defense, counter-battery combat, missile and many other types of weapons, etc.). Otherwise, if a DB were maintained with an enemy of equal strength and armament, the cost would increase by orders of magnitude.

    This means nothing. It is necessary to take into account the features of the terrain and region. The Taliban’s lack of air defense and missile defense did not have much influence, since in a mountainous area air strikes are effective only in cities (which were quickly occupied by the coalition).
    The same thing happened when the USSR Armed Forces entered Afghanistan. We had complete superiority, but could not squeeze the Mujahideen out of the mountains and villages.
  8. +3
    24 October 2016 16: 36
    It seems to me that the time has come to seriously think about creating high-precision, miniature, robotic, with elements of artificial intelligence means of warfare, the use of which can minimize the loss of civilians, infrastructure, means of production, housing, etc., and ultimately break situation and defeat any opponent in a matter of days (not years).
    I came to exactly the opposite conclusions that I would have to fight with the usual Kalash "(the price for the aircraft in 2007 was 1700 rubles) and penny cartridges. As for people, you constantly hear that there are too many of us.
    1. idr
      +1
      25 October 2016 01: 52
      This is an illusion (that the rifle is the cheapest weapon) which you urgently need to get rid of.
      1. There is also evidence that for every person killed in Afghanistan, there were about 250 000 cartridges. The price of one cartridge is far from a penny, but about 1 dollars (But there is also for 20-50 dollars), so this price is in the store. On the battlefield, the price rises by more than 100 times (warehousing, delivery, sometimes by air, losses, etc.)
      2. The resource of an automatic barrel is about 7 000 shots or even less, depending on how you use it and what cartridges to use. For bad bullets, there may be 1000 shots. So you will need to spend about 100 assault rifles for each enemy killed, and their price is also more than 100 more expensive on the battlefield.
      3. Only (and the enemy is not such) will get under the bullets, if there is a possibility not to do so. That is why the tactics of remote fire exposure are used without entering the affected area.
  9. cap
    +1
    24 October 2016 16: 58
    "What is this: complete incompetence or, on the contrary, a well-planned operation with ALL OTHER GOALS AND OBJECTIVES hidden from the public's attention?"



    It depends on what purpose. If the goal is to continue to poison people with drugs, for their money (mostly dollars), then it (the goal) is completely justified and payback.
    Plus the sale of weapons to both sides of the conflict, all over the world.
    I won’t count. Everything is in the public domain.
    1. idr
      +1
      25 October 2016 01: 53
      I totally agree.
  10. +5
    24 October 2016 17: 20
    This is one of the most interesting articles that I read here. I think the author has not gone far from the truth in numbers. If you remember that to kill one soldier during the Second World War, millions of bullets were required. Millions! And in those days everything was cheaper and easier. They won because the whole country and every person worked to win. Literally everyone. Now the war costs terrible money. And the issue of war economics is important. The T 24 was the best tank not only on the battlefield, but also in production. This influenced the course of the war. Money is not endless. A cheap RPG 7 provided half of the combat losses of the Americans in Iraq. Draw conclusions.
    1. 0
      26 October 2016 11: 14
      Quote: arslan23
      The 24 was the best tank not only on the battlefield, but also in production.


      T-24 - Soviet medium tank. It was created in the 1929 — 1930 years as an improved version of the T-12 experimental tank and was intended to be the “maneuverable” tank in the armament system of the Red Army. During serial production in 1930 — 1931, 28 chassis, 25 armored hulls, and 26 turrets were produced, however, the full-scale production of the T-24 was not deployed due to economic difficulties and uncertainty with the final choice of the maneuverable tank. Released vehicles remained in service until the end of the 1930's and never participated in hostilities.
      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Т-24


      Sometimes it’s useful to keep track of what you write and what you write. laughing
  11. +5
    24 October 2016 17: 35
    Yes, fighting is expensive, but losing is even more expensive.
    1. idr
      +1
      25 October 2016 01: 56
      It is necessary to fight and win using MINIMUM of resources.
      1. aba
        0
        26 October 2016 08: 14
        Well, it's just by magic. wink
    2. 0
      25 October 2016 11: 13
      I agree that as a result of the loss, the most expensive and invaluable resource for any capitalist is lost - power. That always makes a profit.
  12. +6
    24 October 2016 18: 16
    Some kind of count of "wealthy moles" from "Thumbelina". Maintaining a military contingent in combat is a burden on taxpayers. Say, corporations, customers of wars, also pay taxes and salaries, and you’ll be right, BUT ... These customers will not remain at a loss, since the "government" is still obliged to settle with them. And the rate of VERY HUGE profit will be met, believe me. But it is, feeding. But access to the resources of large countries, profits from eliminating competitors, seizing markets - this already gives rise to super profits. Therefore, it is ridiculous to talk about state budgets "will / will not stand", since investors and beneficiaries are not states with their budgets. The state, in this case the United States, is just a pump for pumping the dough into the "business", and back, according to the calculations with the "investors." Plus, the "investors" still have their own pirate "mega-prizes" bypassing this very state. budget, and they are MANY times larger. As a result, the state works either "at zero" or "at minus", which adds up to the national debt. in fact, this very US national debt is what the super corporations stole from the US budget over the financial period of several decades, and that is not all, because the same part is covered by the robbery of the 3rd world countries, and maybe even more). So the "prime cost" of a combat unit for "customers" does not matter, since the dollars for the formation of a new "order" can be printed as much as necessary, and given from the Federal Reserve System to the "state budget", and the withered money supply can be dumped in the "trash heap" 3- x countries. The United States has no financial restrictions on the conduct of hostilities! There are restrictions on the quantity and quality of "meat" of different sorts, and on the quantity and quality of military equipment that can be served with this "meat".
    1. idr
      +2
      25 October 2016 02: 02
      Very accurate definition. But there are limitations, this is the number of people killed. But as soon as this figure is minimized, the coalition will fight everywhere and always.
      1. 0
        25 October 2016 16: 05
        Quote: iDr
        But there are limitations, this is the number of people killed. But as soon as this figure is minimized, the coalition will fight everywhere and always.

        It has already been minimized by participation in PMC wars. Their losses are not taken into account in statistics. Well, the opinion expressed by the author in the article is interesting
  13. +3
    24 October 2016 18: 20
    In fact, the United States is not a state, or even a self-sustaining company. This is pure "MMM", only bloody and global, which feeds on the blood of the peoples of the planet, without allegories.
    1. idr
      +1
      25 October 2016 02: 02
      Hard to disagree
  14. +4
    24 October 2016 18: 21
    Zhukov never said that "women are still giving birth" !!! Ignorant, and in the same place - to consider the cost of someone else's LIFE! If you only dream of money, then go to Syria, enroll in special forces - reduce the costs of the war, y ... d!
    1. idr
      0
      25 October 2016 02: 10
      Apparently this is my fault. I did not find the right words to express a very simple idea that human life is priceless. I just described the logic of thinking and the calculations of those who send people to fight and die. And this is not my understanding of the value of life.
      According to Zhukov.
      http://www.moscow-russia-insiders-guide.com/georg
      y-zhukov-monument-in-moscow.html
      1. +2
        25 October 2016 10: 31
        Quote: iDr
        Apparently this is my fault. I did not find the right words to express a very simple idea that human life is priceless. I just described the logic of thinking and the calculations of those who send people to fight and die. And this is not my understanding of the value of life.
        According to Zhukov.
        http://www.moscow-russia-insiders-guide.com/georg
        y-zhukov-monument-in-moscow.html


        I wrote above, but I repeat again, do not repeat liberal nonsense, or you yourself heard Zhukov say this.
        Although looking at your flag you understand this perseverance.
      2. +1
        26 October 2016 06: 35
        To another agent of influence. Your link leads to an English site about Russia, and the page is not located. Here is the message:
        "Oops, wrong page!


        I'm sorry to say this, but the page you are looking for was not found! Please check the file name carefully - and if you are sure that it is correct - in the left navigation bar combined with a nice little search, they will surely help you find what you were looking for!

        Good luck! "

        Accordingly, an article from the section of hostile propaganda. That part of the information about the financial support of military operations that you are writing about is processed in the classical style of information warfare tools. So, that does not count: "Saw Shura's weight, there is gold")))

        Actually your article is about the eternal. You quoted a participant in Italian wars in the Middle Ages.

        I quote from Guy Julius Caesar: "You can find a million people ready to KILL for money, but you will not find anyone willing to DIE for money."

        Well, as on your site: "Good luck!"
  15. +2
    24 October 2016 19: 18
    Interestingly, no one even has the thought of a paradigm shift!
    Maybe for a small part of this money build, say, in Afghanistan, hospitals, schools, infrastructure.
    Launch the agricultural system of irrigation, food production, consumer goods.
    Create a working economy.
    You look and the terrorists would disappear - there would be no replenishment of personnel.
    The problem is one - and what for then all this will be necessary for the USA and its military-industrial complex. Just uninteresting.
    1. idr
      +3
      25 October 2016 02: 13
      It all depends on the objective function. Marx was right when he said that for 300% of the profit the capitalist would sell his mother.
  16. +2
    24 October 2016 22: 58
    Interesting arithmetic! Thanks to the author for the analytics.
    There was an assumption that war is expensive, now there is an understanding that it is damn expensive.
    Only for a certain part of politicians, war is just a business.
  17. idr
    +2
    25 October 2016 01: 17
    Quote: Lord Blacwood
    Firstly, no one spends $ 1.000.000 on each soldier per year.

    those. if you and your family of 4 people went on vacation and spent 40 000 rubles on everything, then I think that spending on one member of the family will be 10 000 rubles, even eating one all the way drank cognac and the other drank lemonade.
  18. idr
    +1
    25 October 2016 09: 03
    Quote: Lord Blacwood
    Firstly, no one spends $ 1.000.000 on each soldier per year.

    those. having paid more than 120 000 000 000 from the budgets of the coalition countries for the maintenance of 120 000 is not a waste? I think it's a waste.
  19. idr
    +1
    25 October 2016 09: 05
    Quote: Lord Blacwood
    Moreover, part of the funds was spent on the creation of the Afghan army.

    And how is she doing, this Afghan army? After the coalition exited, the Taliban greatly expanded its territory
  20. +2
    26 October 2016 05: 17
    Quote: Hiking
    At the end of the meal, the liberal press has already grown up, all these attacks on Zhukov are the fruits of the blackening of our history and one of the best Marshals of the Victory that appeared after his death.

    I completely agree with the comment. Liberals already simply do not know what else to slander the leaders of the Stalin era and invent myths about bloody butchers, mediocre commanders. Give a link to a historical document where such a phrase G.K. Zhukov. Articles should be subjected to reasonable control since someone who is uninformed after reading will be firmly convinced of the bloodthirstiness and stupidity of the Marshal of Victory in our country.
    1. 0
      26 October 2016 11: 31
      Useful link about this "catch phrase":

      About the authorship of the phrase "women are still giving birth"

      http://skeptimist.livejournal.com/827922.html

      http://samlib.ru/t/tonina_o_i/romanov-400-99.shtm
      l
      1. idr
        0
        26 October 2016 13: 36
        Thanks for the link. I read it with interest. Yes, the subject must be studied more thoroughly.
        1. 0
          26 October 2016 17: 06
          Please.
          And here is a really historical fact of what Zhukov G.K. said to your subordinates:

          In general, one of the problems of the Red Army in the winter of 1941/42 was that G.K. Zhukov could not be cloned and put doubles at the head of each division and army. He could come up with any daring and competent moves, but they ran into a misunderstanding of the mechanism of conducting an offensive in tactical units. Quite often, Zhukov even broke down and arranged a full range of various emotions for his subordinates. So, for example, at 5.00 am on January 27, 1942, he wrote to the commander of the 49th Army: “Failure to fulfill the tasks of the 49th Army, large losses in personnel are explained by the exclusive personal guilt of division commanders, who are still grossly violating Comrade Stalin's instructions and [demand] for an order from the front on the massing of artillery for a breakthrough, on the tactics and technique of an offensive on defense in populated areas. For many days, units of the 49th Army have been criminally conducting frontal attacks on the settlements of Kostino, Ostrozhnoe, Bogdanovo, Potapovo and, suffering huge losses, did not have no success.
          It should be clear to every elementary military literate person that the above villages represent a very advantageous and warm defensive position. The area in front of the villages is under full shelling, and, despite this, criminally conducted attacks continue at the same place, and as a result of the stupidity and lack of discipline of the unfortunate organizers, people pay with their thousands of lives, without bringing any benefit to the Homeland.
          If you want to be left in your posts, I demand:
          Stop criminal attacks on the forehead of the village;
          Stop forehead attacks at heights with good fire;
          To step only along ravines, forests, and low-fire terrain;
          Break through immediately between the settlements and, not stopping at their final mastery, tomorrow capture Sloboda, Dawn and wedge themselves to Levshin.
          The execution should be brought to me by 24.00 27.1 "[123].


          http://profilib.com/chtenie/108515/aleksey-isaev-
          mify-i-pravda-o-marshale-zhukove-45.php
  21. -1
    26 October 2016 11: 55
    Quote: iDr
    Yes, I am not a historian, but the purpose of the article was not to slander Zhukov, but to show on his example the dynamics of the change in attitude to the value of human life in time.

    Perfectly selected example, congratulations. Given the importance for our people of that war.
    How it was possible to build an example on the basis of false information about such a significant figure - I do not understand. Moreover, the information is available, and in this case it was possible to read at least something on this topic.
    After reading the article, I was once again convinced that we were all lucky then that not everything in the leadership of the country was determined by money and value.
    Now such financial strategists would certainly consider that war is expensive and they agreed with Hitler.
  22. +1
    26 October 2016 15: 03
    I completely agree with the author: it is much cheaper when the army is in the barracks (the main thing is peace). In the exercises, 9 rounds per year. 1 pair of boots per year. and 2 pairs of footcloths - sheer savings.
  23. +1
    26 October 2016 15: 33
    In general, the article is not bad and considers such an important aspect as the supply of troops and the cost of this supply. Only by cutting off the material and financial supply routes of terrorists can they be defeated. It is necessary to bomb more caravans with ammunition than a dozen mujahideen buried in the ground. Caravans are defenseless against aviation, and without weapons and ammunition, the resistance will be quickly suppressed by the Syrian army itself. Now the question about Marshal Zhukov: "... (Zhukov's famous dictum about the advisability of losses during the storming of Berlin: Russian women give birth to new ones) ..." - is this dictum documented or confirmed by a reliable source? I ask you to indicate it so as not to look like a bullshit. Such sayings are attributed by liberals to almost all Russian Generals, starting from Dmitry Donskoy. Everything must be proven by documents or at least chronicles.
  24. 0
    26 October 2016 19: 10
    As I understand it, foreigners have cut much taller than ours, the amount is much more!
    1. idr
      0
      30 October 2016 09: 57
      Absolutely.
  25. +1
    26 October 2016 20: 53
    The article is easy to read. But with the content ... not convincing.
    When the manipulation of the initial numbers begins, the methodology for which is not clear, it turns out an obvious absurdity.

    The source of military spending is the military budget. If it is spent domestically, it is not "spending" but reinvestment in the economy of one's own country. If for purchases abroad - money "down the drain". Those. in one case, the state (in a broad sense) transfers money from the conditionally left pocket to the right one, in the other it donates it to the “neighbor”.

    Another example. VKS bomb the enemy. Is it an expense? Is not a fact. Bombs made and paid a long time ago. Further. The Ministry of War spent to build a warehouse, then spent a long time on its repair and maintenance, heating, all kinds of security, etc. And then it would be wasted. And here is ISIS (). Now the conditional warehouse is empty. It can be leased or even sold. Utility costs have completely disappeared ... So is a military operation in Syria expenses or budget revenues? In this case, money is not wasted. And now you do not need to dispose of these ammunition ...

    This is all to the fact that the original digital signature of the author is not based on anything. Therefore, the conclusions are strange and not consistent with realities.
    1. idr
      0
      27 October 2016 01: 05
      Your logic is strange. Imagine that you have a new car that costs 1 000 000 rubles for which the resource is 100 000 km. Those. every kilometer costs you 10p. and you use this car for personal needs. Naturally, a car requires expenses for gasoline, maintenance, oil, rubber and other consumables. Now a neighbor comes to you and asks for a car for 12 months and in addition to you as a driver. and after 12 months of operation, he returned the car and you, too, back to the family. It turned out that over the past 12 months the car used up its entire resource and you paid all the expenses (service, gas, etc.) + if the car worked far from home, you paid for its transportation, your accommodation, food, parking the car and all other expenses and didn’t get paid. those. in order for you to return to the starting point (financially) in a year, you must buy a new car + reimburse all expenses incurred and much more.
      If you think that the MO is just like that, from the flashlight orders and stores weapons, then you are very wrong. Everything is calculated and the slads are not built for rental. and for the storage of mobilization reserves i.e. if suddenly ISIS then ALL of the spent reserves taken from these warehouses MUST BE FILLED IN FULL VOLUME and in the SHORTEST TIME and it costs MONEY. Extra money that you would not have spent without ISIS.
    2. idr
      0
      28 October 2016 15: 48
      Quote: stoker
      When the manipulation of the initial numbers begins, the methodology for which is not clear, it turns out an obvious absurdity.

      Take a look at these links please:
      http://time.com/3651697/afghanistan-war-cost/
      or for all TVDs.
      http://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce
      /papers/2014/US%20Costs%20of%20Wars%20through%202
      014.pdf
  26. +1
    27 October 2016 14: 40
    It did not occur to the author to calculate the costs of the army and the war
    as a percentage of each country's GDP?

    It turns out that everything is not so scary. If the costs of war and army
    do not exceed 6-8% of GDP and losses are small, then you can fight and
    to fight for years without breaking
    The imbalance and danger of bankruptcy / default comes somewhere from 10-12%.
    1. idr
      0
      28 October 2016 15: 50
      The author had a completely opposite task. How to minimize the cost of maintaining a database
  27. 0
    30 October 2016 05: 11
    I fundamentally agree, like everywhere there are many nuances