Fly without complexes

35
The Syrian opposition will receive man-portable air defense systems, and the Russian videoconferencing system will begin to suffer significant losses. Talk about this for a long time in foreign media. The most odious Western experts openly called for the transfer of MANPADS to the militants to fight Russia.

The expectations of foreign media have been met. Militants used man-portable air defense missiles against the Russian combat helicopter Mi-8AMTSH, which, according to the official version, carried out a flight with humanitarian aid. But the sensation did not happen. As stated by the official representatives of the Russian military, skillful actions allowed the crew to steer the car out of the fire and continue the task.



Details of the incident in the Syrian sky are not reported, but certain conclusions can be drawn from what happened. Let's try to figure out whether MANPADS are so dangerous for Russian planes and helicopters aviation Special Purpose Brigades based in Hmeimim. And at the same time where are the deadly complexes from the Islamists.

Portable anti-aircraft myths

The legend of the unique effectiveness of MANPADS was born during the war of the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. A classic statement that even got into general education textbooks on stories for schoolchildren: the CIA handed over to the Mujahideen Stinger MANPADS caused such losses to the Soviet Air Force and Ground Forces aviation that this greatly reduced their effectiveness. Having been left without air support, units and subunits of the 40 Army were forced to significantly reduce operations and military exits, the initiative was lost.

Fly without complexesMeanwhile, MANPADS were used long before the war in Afghanistan and their first victims were American planes and helicopters at the end of the Vietnam War. It was the first time when the Soviet Strela-2 anti-aircraft missile systems distinguished themselves. At the same time with the fighters of the North Vietnamese army and the Vietcongs, Strela - already against the Israeli Air Force - Syrians and Egyptians, who shot down quite a lot of not only Skyhawk light attack aircraft, but also heavy multifunctional fighters, effectively used the Doomsday War. F-4 Phantom-4.

But already in the 80-ies in the operation in Lebanon, the Israeli air force suffered only episodic losses from MANPADS fire. The aircraft operated at an altitude of over five thousand meters, that is, outside the zone of MANPADS, and when attacking targets, infrared traps were used. Similarly, after the first deliveries of MANPADS (the Chinese version of the Strela-2 and the English Bloupep) to the Mujahideen, the Soviet air forces also began to operate in Afghanistan. Losses were insignificant. The situation has changed somewhat only after the delivery of the Stingers. Although the American missiles did not reach the Soviet aircraft at an altitude of over three thousand meters, they could distinguish a working engine from an infrared trap.

The most effective American MANPADS proved themselves in the first months after their appearance in Afghanistan. Their victims were mainly low-altitude attack aircraft Su-25 and helicopters Mi-24, Mi-8. The faster MiG-23 and Su-17, rarely dropping below three thousand meters, suffered minimal losses. And after the Soviet specialists, having conducted tests of the captured Stinger, developed an effective tactic and technical means of counteraction, the losses were sharply reduced.

In 1991, the US Air Force and Allied Coalition lost in the “Storm in the Desert” operation only a few aircraft and not a single helicopter from MANPADS fire, although the Iraqi armed forces had more modern Igla complexes, in their capabilities seriously superior to the Stingers.

The tactics of protection against MANPADS is very simple. For airplanes - work at an altitude of at least five thousand meters. In 80 – 90-ies, when aiming devices and aircraft weapons did not provide high accuracy, reduction was a necessary condition for the attack. Now with the development of optical-electronic systems and the WTO, such a need has disappeared. Even Su-25 carried out flights in Syria at an altitude of over five thousand meters and hit targets immaculately.

Helicopters, on the contrary, need to be as close as possible to the ground and keep high speed. In this case, the rotary-wing machines must necessarily be equipped not only with systems for ejecting infrared traps, but also with optical interference stations which knock down the work of the homing missiles.

The most effective complex of jamming against MANPADS at the present time is the Russian Vitebsk, which detects a target and, depending on its characteristics, either firing infrared traps, or placing powerful interferences, or blinding a GOS portable anti-aircraft missile with a powerful laser beam.

Stocks of Colonel Gaddafi

Since the beginning of the civil war in Syria, the opposition forces looted the warehouses of the government army, which had a serious arsenal of MANPADS - both the Arrows-2 and its Chinese clones, and the more modern Russian Needles-2. True, in the first stages of the fighting, rockets were used quite rarely, the militants simply did not have enough specialists. In addition, most of the complexes due to improper storage quickly out of order.

But with the advent of foreign military experts, including from Saudi Arabia and the United States, the situation has changed. MANPADS operators were trained, deliveries of serviceable complexes from stocks previously looted in the arsenals of the Libyan army after the overthrow of Gaddafi began. Although the latter is officially denied.

It was the use of portable complexes that caused serious losses to Syrian aviation and limited their combat use. And the last aircraft of the Assad Air Force were shot down from MANPADS this fall.

But there was a downside. MANPADS began to spread across the region. In particular, they appeared among Kurdish militias (who shot down several Turkish helicopters), Yemeni Housits, and even reached Afghanistan. The US military has repeatedly noted attempts to attack ISAF aircraft and helicopters using man-portable air defense missiles.

So when Western experts and journalists talk about the transfer of moderate opposition to MANPADS to fight Russian videoconferencing, they forget that the region is already stuffed with man-portable air defense missile systems of various manufacturers, series and generations, ranging from outdated Strela 2 to the latest Russian "Needle" and Chinese FN-6.

Are they dangerous for VKS of Russia? Undoubtedly, a certain threat exists. But Russian airplanes operate at high altitudes, and modern navigation and aiming systems, optical-electronic stations provide high accuracy of targeting and application of TSA. Therefore, Su-24M, Su-34 and even Su-25 do not need to be substituted for the fire of the portable militant complexes. The effectiveness of MANPADS against Russian aircraft is indicated by the fact that during the year of the operation not a single launch was recorded on the sides of the Russian Aerospace Forces.

With helicopters is not so easy. Yes, Mi-8AMTSH, Ka-52 and Mi-28 are protected by “Vitebsk”, which, most likely, saved our “eight” from MANPADS. But the newest self-defense complex does not protect against the usual rifle weapons and with a certain combination, using machine guns and machine guns, as well as MANPADS, the rotary-wing machine can be knocked down.

A good example is the death of the Mi-8AMTSH in the summer of this year, which, according to reports, was ambushed. The car went at a low altitude to make it as difficult as possible for the operator to operate the MANPADS, but was substituted for small arms.
35 comments
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  1. +6
    15 October 2016 08: 31
    The Syrian opposition will receive man-portable anti-aircraft missile systems, and the Russian air force will begin to suffer significant losses, I think our military will not be down and just change the tactics of warfare. In general, to win the war in Syria, you need to iron the towns and cities that keep gunmen, RZSO, airplanes , unfortunately, not paying attention to the civilian population or will get tyagomotin as in Chechnya with heavy losses.
    1. +12
      15 October 2016 09: 26
      In general, in order to win the war in Syria, you need to iron the cities and towns Interesting opinion ... And then prove to the whole world that we didn’t gouge the Hospitals, schools, humanitarian convoys? Or have I missed something and have already developed and adopted "smart" bombs that distinguish between the civilian population forced into the conflict zone, children and medical personnel of the "Red Crescent" from a bearded militant? Sorry, but you are nonsense!
      1. +3
        15 October 2016 14: 33
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        And then to prove to the whole world that we are not gouging hospitals, schools, humanitarian convoys?

        That’s how we prove it, and there was no need to bomb.
    2. +5
      15 October 2016 11: 17
      Quote: Yak28
      In general, in order to win the war in Syria, you need to iron the cities and towns


      Bullshit of a bloodthirsty psychopath.
      1. +9
        15 October 2016 12: 15
        Quote: Maki Avellevich
        Quote: Yak28
        In general, in order to win the war in Syria, you need to iron the cities and towns


        Bullshit of a bloodthirsty psychopath.

        Both on! Israeli "peacekeepers" are awake! What about "humanitarian bombing" with "collateral losses" in the name of holy Israel? lol
      2. +5
        15 October 2016 14: 24
        This is written by the murderers of Palestinian children, is Israel bombing residential settlements with civilians a little? Or maybe the USA in Iraq and Yugoslavia only attacked the military? And what did the states in Vietnam do with the civilian population?
    3. +1
      15 October 2016 17: 00
      This is the tactics of the bearers of democracy - carpet bombing.
    4. 0
      15 October 2016 21: 15
      With one condition, withdraw the entire civilian population, and then iron
    5. 0
      26 October 2016 07: 57
      Quote: Yak28
      .In general, in order to win the war in Syria, it is necessary to iron the towns and cities that are kept by gunmen, RZSO, airplanes, unfortunately not paying attention to the civilian population or you will get tyagomotin like in Chechnya with heavy losses.

      Was it all in Afghanistan, helped a lot? The layout there is the same
  2. +9
    15 October 2016 08: 47
    MANPADS are dangerous for rotorcraft and all the rest during takeoff and landing. I would not neglect the danger of this weapon.
    1. +6
      15 October 2016 10: 02
      The dangers of MANPADS are most likely to be mobile even after transferring them to the bogeymen, where they will later be unknown. The Americans already burned in Afghanistan, then they bought their own complexes
      1. 0
        15 October 2016 11: 27
        Quote: APASUS
        The dangers of MANPADS are most likely to be mobile even after transferring them to the bogeymen, where they will later be unknown. The Americans already burned in Afghanistan, then they bought their own complexes

        MANPADS have a limited shelf life and cannot be restored on the knee. Gaddafi lost tens of thousands of MANPADS. Something is not noticeable helicopter fall in the world. Nevertheless, MANPADS can significantly complicate the life of aviation in Syria, and if they are sufficiently saturated, no "Vitebsk" can save. Moreover, the United States threatened to supply the militia with "less mobile" complexes. Then going to heights of 5000 m will not help either. request
        1. +3
          15 October 2016 12: 23
          Quote: professor
          Gaddafi lost tens of thousands of MANPADS. Something is not noticeable helicopter fall around the world.

          Those MANPADS that were in the warehouses of Gaddafi have already passed the deadlines
          The guarantee period of operation of the Igla MANPADS is 10 years when they are saved in equipped rooms. 7 years in non-equipped rooms, 4 years when saving in the field. 2 years with continuous use and storage outside the drawers.

          Quote: professor
          Moreover, the United States threatened to supply the militia with "less mobile" complexes. Then going to heights of 5000 m will not help either.

          Are you by any chance not talking about these PUPPERS?
          1. +3
            15 October 2016 14: 10
            Are these the militias? How do you know? So I know that our guys also had their heads cut in Chechnya. And now some of the cutthroats have become a Hero ...
          2. 0
            15 October 2016 14: 32
            Quote: APASUS
            Those MANPADS that were in the warehouses of Gaddafi have already passed the deadlines

            MANPADS must be handled skillfully. I think the Americans will put MANPADS in Voentorg with new batteries.

            Quote: APASUS
            Are you by any chance not talking about these PUPPERS?

            About these.
            1. +2
              15 October 2016 15: 14
              put MANPADS in Voentorg with new batteries.

              There, the batteries are the smallest that comes out of time, but the cooling of the GOS .....
              1. 0
                15 October 2016 16: 14
                Quote: NIKNN
                There, the batteries are the smallest that comes out of time, but the cooling of the GOS .....

                Many of the older missiles (type SA-7) are already unusable. Gaddafi had been buying and stockpiling weapons since the 1970s (when oil prices skyrocketed and all the oil-supplying countries suddenly had a lot more money to use them). Any of these missiles, which are more than 15 years old, most likely will not work. Batteries fail after a few years, and after a decade, electronics is no longer reliable. After about fifteen years, the rocket engine is no longer reliable, as is the explosive of the warhead. At this point, SA-7 is more dangerous for those who use it than for any potential purpose. Old missiles can be repaired using new parts, but those who can get new spare parts can usually get new and improved missiles instead.
                Russian serial numbers
              2. 0
                16 October 2016 23: 51
                NIKNN

                Everything can fail there. And the cooling of the seeker is not the most durable. This is just what can be preserved for a long time, for centuries.
            2. +1
              15 October 2016 16: 39
              Quote: professor
              About these.

              This Givi will receive MANPADS from the Americans ???
              1. 0
                15 October 2016 18: 23
                Quote: APASUS
                This Givi will receive MANPADS from the Americans ???

                He sells at another military store.

                Quote: Bad_gr
                Are you the people who blast your homes with tea?

                We are also convicted in prison. And if someone with the prisoners is simply photographed then him in jail. Prisoners of war Convention we honor.
                1. 0
                  15 October 2016 18: 48
                  Quote: professor
                  We are also convicted in prison. And if someone with the prisoners is simply photographed then him in jail. Prisoners of war Convention we honor.

                  If it was a showdown immediately after the battle, in which his comrades also died, then the commander’s attitude to the prisoners is quite adequate (in fact: according to the physiognomy of the whole crowd he got only one, they did not cripple anyone).
            3. 0
              15 October 2016 17: 47
              Quote: professor
              About these.

              Are you the people who blast your homes with tea?
            4. +1
              15 October 2016 20: 45
              Quote: professor
              About these.

              Professor, watched your entire video. Something I did not see that there would be someone cut off their heads. On the contrary, they promised to return it by exchanging for their own.
              1. +1
                7 November 2016 15: 42
                There will be no answer. The main thing is to "blurt out", to launch the frank "Fuflo", the new "Fake" and into the bushes. Taking responsibility for words is weak for him.
      2. 0
        15 October 2016 18: 31
        We are already stepping on the same rake more than once, we are starting hostilities and we are not providing aviation protection. And only after the losses we have, we start to move, because it was already there. What prevents us from equipping aviation with the necessary equipment before the very first flight?
  3. +1
    15 October 2016 12: 19
    MANPADS now - this is a tool against helicopters, against aircraft at an altitude of 6000 meters hands are short.

    It is enough to abandon the use of helicopters over enemy territory and the battlefield, as all MANPADS will go into the woods.
    1. 0
      17 October 2016 00: 03
      Operator

      Yes, what are we talking about. It is clear that MANPADS do not play any role. The presence of MANPADS of course creates certain difficulties. But not so big as to be a real problem.

      The tactics of aviation and not only that protection against MANPADS.

      The use of MANPADS is also a problem. This and the terrain should be open. And the target should be long enough in the area of ​​fire. And the height of the target must be such as to meet the first requirement. Do not forget that GOS, you need cooling. And this is the time. Once the process has begun, there must be a shot. And if the target was gone, then the shot was gone. Everything must be taken into account.

      Well, the shooter is not protected at this time. He is in the line of sight. And the pilots' detection devices are not the same as they were 10 years ago.
      So ... It's not that simple.
  4. 0
    15 October 2016 12: 23
    For every scrap is there against scrap? That is, heavy (carpet) bombing will come to replace low-flying aircraft, which will bring even greater non-combat losses and destruction! If our western "partners" (in terms of GDP) are trying to achieve this, then the flag is in their hands !? But then their advisers and special forces will go home in bags - from 6-10 km. it is difficult to see even a large star-striped flag, let alone an ant man?
    1. 0
      17 October 2016 00: 07
      Kudrev

      Why carpet bombing? Why the destruction of the infrastructure of the union state?

      It is said that modern means of guidance allow us to achieve sufficient accuracy with freely falling bombs.
  5. 0
    15 October 2016 12: 52
    In vain are they muddying this topic, apparently they have completely abandoned the idea of ​​closing the sky over Syria. A question to the barmaley - how do they think they will decide on the question "friend or foe" for 2-3 thousand, and even at speeds of 800 and above?
  6. +1
    16 October 2016 05: 58
    Quote: professor
    Quote: APASUS
    The dangers of MANPADS are most likely to be mobile even after transferring them to the bogeymen, where they will later be unknown. The Americans already burned in Afghanistan, then they bought their own complexes

    MANPADS have a limited shelf life and cannot be restored on the knee. Gaddafi lost tens of thousands of MANPADS. Something is not noticeable helicopter fall in the world. Nevertheless, MANPADS can significantly complicate the life of aviation in Syria, and if they are sufficiently saturated, no "Vitebsk" can save. Furthermore, US threatened to supply the militia with "less mobile" complexes. Then going to heights of 5000 m will not help either. request


    Not just the USA, but Israil's strategic ally!
    Agree, a very significant clarification for understanding what is happening in the World and on BV ...

    See the root.
    1. +2
      16 October 2016 10: 46
      Quote: cedar
      Not just the USA, but Israel’s strategic ally!

      And what is Russia an ally? Today, Russia voted in UNESCO for a resolution stating that the Jewish people and the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, the same one where there were 2 Jewish temples, have no connection and the Temple Mount should be called the mountain of El Aqsa Mosque.
      Agree, a very significant clarification for understanding what is happening in the World and on BV ...
  7. +1
    17 October 2016 06: 15
    Quote: professor
    Quote: cedar
    Not just the USA, but Israel’s strategic ally!

    And what is Russia an ally? Today, Russia voted in UNESCO for a resolution stating that the Jewish people and the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, the same one where there were 2 Jewish temples, have no connection and the Temple Mount should be called the mountain of El Aqsa Mosque.
    Agree, a very significant clarification for understanding what is happening in the World and on BV ...


    STILL HOW AGREE! But this topic is a separate lecture. It would be very useful for the people in VO to join and have this "very essential clarification for understanding what is happening in the World and in BV ..." Agree.
  8. 0
    17 October 2016 19: 58
    What did the classic want to tell us? And FIG knows ...
  9. +1
    21 October 2016 18: 41
    I think with these MANPADS you need to bring down a couple of American helicopters over Mosul ...