Does defense spending harm your state?

107
Twenty trillion rubles. To put it mildly, the amount is rather big. Almost immediately after the announcement of plans for the development of the defense industry, voices sounded that they could not give that much money to the military and production workers. They say that the USSR has already allocated huge sums for defense needs, but it still collapsed. And here is the old conclusion that says that it was precisely military spending that killed the Union. Sometimes they even say that if modern Russia finances its defense-industrial complex the same way as the USSR, then the same fate awaits it. Frankly, optimism does not blow. But let's try to figure out what's what.

For the first time, statements about the dangers of high defense expenditures began to talk in Perestroika. Then, first in conversations, a figure appeared in 19% of the gross national product, then in M. Gorbachev's speeches she grew to 20%, and as a result, by the “efforts” of the first deputy chief of the General Staff, V. Lobov, 30% appeared, which came into use. A little later, A. Sobchak added fuel to the fire, saying that the defense industry "milks" as much as two thirds of the entire national economy. By this time, talking about a “third of the budget” became an axiom for a certain part of the population and the political elite. True, then some of the then first state officials recognized that all these figures were ambiguous and contradictory. So, for example, E. Gaidar in his book "The Death of the Empire" suggested that large percentages arose because of problems with mixing up various budget items. Another version, no longer owned by Gaidar, says: 30% - a result of the reluctance of the country's leadership to delve into the details.



Word statistics

What was really? Take, for example, 1985 year. The figures are based on the work of V. Shlykov “What killed the Soviet Union? General Staff and Economy. The GNP of the USSR this year amounted to 776 billion rubles, and the official defense budget - 19,1 billion. Thus, military expenditures for 85 a year are less than 2,5% of the national domestic product. Let us remember this figure and see what was written to the CIA at the expense of Soviet military spending. In their report for the 85 year, the estimate appears in 6-8%. A large number can be explained in two ways: first, American intelligence officers did not have access to Soviet documents of the appropriate level and could only roughly estimate the expenses of the USSR, and secondly, if we take into account the purchasing power parity, the defense budget share will be somewhere around 5-6%. At the same time, one more thing should not be forgotten. From the middle of 70's, the CIA was forced to check and recheck their assessments - then it turned out that the guys from Langley, using the testimony of a Soviet defector, almost doubled the estimate for the size of the Soviet defense budget. It got to the point that a group of senators demanded that the Directorate be dispersed, because, because of the overestimated estimates of the enemy’s economy, they had to increase funding for their own military.

Thus, in two independent sources there are approximately the same figures, and the differences between them are quite explicable. With the amount of expenditure seems to be sorted out. Now consider another thesis that appeared in the Perestroika and re-entered into circulation: the civilian industry sector suffered from the production of military products. Here we need to recall one simple truth, which says that the defense complex is always the leader of progress and “pulls” all other industries. In 2010, President D. Medvedev said that our defense industry should become the main “innovation generator”, and not only the military itself. It should be noted, similar thoughts have already arisen with the leadership of the country - it was the notorious conversion of 80's. A good idea as a whole did not lead to the planned result. The most popular explanation of failure concerns the ill-considered nature of this “reform.” It turned out that the defense industry can make equipment for purely civilian industries or household appliances not worse than foreign firms, but because of the sharpening of enterprises for another sphere of the national economy, the price of peaceful products came out unattractive. In addition, as many analysts believe, the civilian sector of the Soviet economy had low efficiency: planning with mistakes, strange logistics, etc. So, given the relatively small defense spending, it was necessary to optimize the "peaceful" economy. What did the leadership of the country? It began to plug holes in the civilian sector at the expense of defense. This was especially vivid in the middle of 90-x, when the Defense Ministry received less than half of the required amounts, which affected not only the army itself, but also enterprises that received less money for their products. Enterprises had a debt to suppliers, wages were not paid, etc. All the same V. Shlykov, known for his dislike for the Soviet system, compares 80-e and 90-e, coming to the conclusion that only after the collapse of the USSR, the choice of “oil or guns” appeared, and before him there was both.

Немного stories

That defense industry, which "destroyed the USSR", to 80-m had a mature and harmonious structure. Overall management was carried out by four organizations:
- Department of Defense Industry of the Central Committee of the CPSU. Coordinated the entire industry. I must say, the department did it efficiently, but legends still speak about methods. In particular, the phrase I. Serbin, 23, who headed this organization, “You Cannot? Party cards on the table! Perhaps the words of the leader, nicknamed Ivan the Terrible, sounded harshly, but the organization coped with its responsibilities.
- Gosplan. His task was to coordinate defense spending with the rest of government spending and to maintain a peculiar balance between them.
- Defense Department. Determined the general directions of development of the defense industry.
- The commission on military-industrial issues under the Council of Ministers. If I may say so, the "executive power" of the industry. The Commission included representatives of all defense ministries, employees of various research institutes, design bureaus, acceptance departments, etc.

The first of the "defense four" dropped out Gosplan. Upstairs they decided that the market would do everything, and the planned economy did not justify itself. Then nine separate defense ministries were merged into one. Then they will be repeatedly converted. After the changes in the first half of the 90's, defense issues were not resolved jointly, but in a more confusing way. The relevant departments of the Ministry of Defense sent documents regarding purchases or orders to the defense department of the Ministry of Finance. Further, financiers with representatives of the Government linked the demands of the military with the budget, after which everything was approved by the Prime Minister and the President. A slightly more complicated scheme than before, but the problems were not due to its structure. The country did not have the right amount of money, which led to disastrous consequences.

In 2003, in addition to the existing defense departments in charge of procurement, a State Committee on Defense Order was established. A year later, he was transformed into the Federal Service, but she still didn’t carry out actual work on orders. But the organization watched the orders and pricing, due to which the military prosecutor's office increased work. In 2006, Rosoboronzakaz was finally made a supervisory organization. At the same time, the Federal Agency for Arms Procurement (Rosoboronpostavka) was created under the government. It was planned that the Military-Industrial Commission, revived in 99, would plan the ordering strategy, Rosoboronpostavka to implement, and Rosoboronzakaz to control. True, this system for several reasons in the first few years almost did not work.

Who is to blame and what to do?

Now, perhaps, we can return to talking about the danger of increasing defense spending. Based on the foregoing, this can be answered with three theses:
1. Our country does not have a catastrophic experience associated with expenditures on the defense complex - contrary to popular belief, in the collapse of the USSR this sector of the economy, if it is to blame, is only indirectly.
2. Reducing financing for the military-industrial complex is not a direct prerequisite for improving the overall quality of life in the country.
3. Management efficiency has a far greater impact on the economy than the share of spending on the industry. In this regard, there is some reason for optimism: a few contracts that were supposed to be concluded in the 2011 year turned out to be signed only in the late fall. The defense ministry explained this with problems with pricing and unwillingness to pay more than the cost of certain jobs.

In general, the work of the military-industrial complex, as well as all other spheres of the economy and production, is influenced not only and not so much by the amount of funding. An equally important component of managing an industry (an enterprise or even an entire country) is the efficiency and optimization of the system itself. And the creation of such a business is not easy and slow. However, if the state wants to have a combat-ready army and a normal defense-industrial complex, it simply has to rebuild and adjust this system.
107 comments
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  1. +32
    13 January 2012 09: 16
    Little letters and a lot of sense. If the author went to push such things at the rally, I would be waving the flag in the forefront ...
    The presence of sober-minded people is very pleased.
    1. Reader
      +11
      13 January 2012 10: 31
      No no harm!
      1. mengeleff
        +13
        13 January 2012 13: 12
        America has a whole gang of NATO slaves ready to attack anyone at the command of the host, even to the detriment of their own example of Iran and sanctions against it. Why do the poor Portuguese and Greeks need to protect some Jews there when there’s nothing to eat themselves soon.
        Russia without allies therefore we need a large budget!
      2. +10
        13 January 2012 14: 43
        Defense spending is an indicator of the state itself and the people's will for independence!
        1. +3
          15 January 2012 07: 40
          Quote: Civil
          Defense spending is an indicator of the state itself and the people's will for independence!

          This is not only an indicator of the people's will for independence, but also a serious engine of the economy. One of the methods of fiscal policy to stimulate economic growth is to increase the state. expenses. Increasing defense spending is a very reasonable solution, especially since the problem is very acute.
    2. +9
      13 January 2012 15: 39
      I agree. In fact, it was and is. I completely agree with the author’s conclusion - there is a movement to positive.
    3. alatau_09
      +9
      13 January 2012 16: 15
      A copy with large letters "For the furniture maker" on the table with the postscript: "Who does not feed his army, feeds someone else's."
      1. alatau_09
        +4
        13 January 2012 23: 46
        good news in the topic:
        "In 2012, Russia will test about 70 new types of weapons for various branches of the armed forces: the Strategic Missile Forces (Strategic Missile Forces), Air Defense, Missile Forces and Artillery of the Ground Forces. This is more than 2,5 times more than in 2011," reported today RIA Novosti Colonel Vadim Koval, official representative of the RF Ministry of Defense for Strategic Missile Forces.
        Tests will be held in the Astrakhan region at the state central interspecific training ground “Kapustin Yar”. “In 2012, at the Astrakhan interspecific training ground of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation“ Kapustin Yar ”, it is planned to test about 70 weapons on more than 160 test topics,” Koval said.
        In 2011, more than 30 weapons were tested at the test site. “... more than 500 missiles, targets, and missiles were launched at the test site, which is almost 1,5 times the number of similar events carried out a year earlier,” the colonel said.
        “At present, the Kapustin Yar test site is a single research complex with a high scientific and technical potential, a developed experimental and technical base, territory and airspace, which allow testing and joint development of defensive and offensive weapons systems in the interests of all types and kinds troops ", - said the representative of the Ministry of Defense."
        1. +4
          14 January 2012 07: 59
          Alatau, dear, you somehow collect your thoughts! And it turns out that "Chubais is to blame for everything!" - according to you, the "furniture maker" completely ruined the army and, right there, - you smartly report on the successes achieved and previous grandiose accomplishments, which (judging by your opinion of the destroyer of the army) are being done by themselves, without leadership from above and without the knowledge of the "furniture maker"! I am in confusion, bratello ... No. Here you would be - to lead the MO - I think we would have had success, right in the first two months, - deafening! Some beautiful (but already well-worn) slogans would have thrown Basurman to death - let them be afraid!
          And Ryabov Kirill is a smart girl! He told, summarized, made conclusions! My - approve!
  2. KamikadZzzE
    +9
    13 January 2012 09: 19
    "Can't you? Party tickets on the table!"
    Short, clear, effective.
    1. +8
      13 January 2012 10: 18
      And under Stalin, and his head on the chopping block.
  3. denis29_82
    +8
    13 January 2012 09: 24
    A good article and there is nothing to argue.
  4. 443190
    +15
    13 January 2012 09: 28
    Defense costs are definitely needed !!! The main thing is to use everything rationally. The most severe control !!! Personal responsibility !!! Then maybe they will steal less and the efficiency of use will increase. Now what ??? According to Stepashin’s reports, almost TRILLION rubles disappeared last year ... And how many have not yet been revealed ...
    1. denis29_82
      +12
      13 January 2012 09: 43
      The law is needed on confiscation of all property, including from the next of kin caught stealing.
      1. +6
        13 January 2012 09: 55
        Even the shootings help ....
        1. +4
          13 January 2012 10: 37
          help. anyone with access to money should understand responsibility. Now our officials are overweight from impunity, and so they take the stolen, confiscate all property from all close and distant relatives, and then take them out into the open field, put them facing the wall and shoot them. Then everyone else will be quiet, and there will be no terrible cuts and disappearances of the budget ...
          Maybe someone will say cruelly ... inhuman ... but what if now all justice and justice are reduced to the thickness of a wallet, if you have money you can do anything ... rape, kill, trade people, and so on ... because the wallet is full and in which case you can always unfasten ....
          tough methods are needed to break this vicious system ... because this rot must not be cured with simple words and requests, it must be burned out with fire .. as J. Stalin did when he began to burn out the "red bourgeoisie"
          1. WADIM
            +3
            14 January 2012 15: 59
            Are you not afraid that with such a tough approach, it’s just that a scapegoat can make you?
        2. +4
          13 January 2012 15: 53
          wink wink wink wink wink

          Is that, like, "Black Humor"?
      2. +5
        13 January 2012 15: 51
        The law is needed on confiscation of all property including the next of kin caught stealing.


        This is impossible!

        Just imagine, you are an honest citizen-patriot, give all of yourself to the country, a lot of merit, awards .... that's just one problem, brother pi ... aras ... well, as they say, "the family has its black sheep" .... ... ......

        And then your brother is caught ... "corruptor" - you say angrily ... and give the state all your property ... .... DO YOU AGREE?

        And the presumption of innocence ..?. you need to prove the connection of your property with the criminal activity of a brother.

        So, so that the methods of struggle must be different and there are already prerequisites for that in the modern world (which was not there in Soviet times).

        QUESTION? How to reduce the human factor without compromising many processes (managerial, functional, procedural, etc.), And?

        The answer is simple - PROCESS AUTOMATION ... the world of robots is not far off ...

        And just do not about hackers, okay. today scripts and security systems have been developed so that you will break the code for 1000000000 years. (I did not count the exact number of zeros wink ). And the whole tale about the "Pentagon server" is nothing but a staged theater designed to solve a number of problems.
        1. jamert
          +3
          13 January 2012 16: 16
          The answer is simple - PROCESS AUTOMATION ... the world of robots is not far off ...


          Let me argue. Three years ago we introduced an electronic document management system in courts. Allegedly that the head of the court did not appoint "grain affairs" to "his" judges. Now the computer handles the case. So what? in a couple of years we learned to cheat ...
          1. +3
            13 January 2012 16: 20
            Your truth, because they did it in order to deceive ... and waited for several years that no one would suspect winked .

            wink wink wink

            Just mark, please, that you have it on ...., sorry, in Ukraine, since you, sir, will be from Kiev. And then there is a "hamster", although psisa and rare, and on this occasion will have time to pump, will again say - everything in Russia is bad, Putin is to blame.
        2. +2
          15 January 2012 07: 46
          Quote: alex-defensor
          Just imagine, you are an honest citizen-patriot, give all of yourself to the country, a lot of merit, awards .... that's just one problem, brother pi ... aras ... well, as they say, "the family has its black sheep" .... ... ......

          And then your brother is caught ... "corruptor" - you say angrily ... and give the state all your property ... .... DO YOU AGREE?

          Exactly. And then here some quickly find simple solutions to very complex problems. And executions are effective only the first time. Man is such a creature that he gets used to everything. It’s like in medieval Europe: they hung up publicly on the thieves' square, and at the same time, other thieves scurried among the crowd of spectators to clean their pockets. There should be a comprehensive solution.
  5. Igor
    -2
    13 January 2012 09: 41
    It was necessary to modernize the army since 2004 so as not to overstretch the budget and solve many problems that are now arising such as the disruption of public defense contracts, lack of production capacities, the outflow of youth from the defense industry. But everything is always done from us.
    1. +9
      13 January 2012 10: 32
      There were a few other problems at that time ...
  6. SL.Kocegar
    +9
    13 January 2012 09: 49
    Like, the USSR already allocated huge sums for defense needs, but it fell apart anyway. And here comes the old conclusion that it was military spending that killed the Union.
    . THE CASE WAS NOT IN THE BABY, MUCH .. B SITTING IN THE CABIN
  7. Ivan Krasov
    +6
    13 January 2012 09: 59
    The words of Dwight Eisenhower reflecting the state of the American army and American society on the eve of World War II are very interesting: “... in the beginning of 1940, the United States Army, like a mirror, reflected the mood of the American people. The mass of officers and soldiers lacked the proper understanding of the need for urgent strengthening of combat training of troops. In most parts, preference was not given to serious training of personnel, but to sports, recreation and entertainment. ”
    And further: “Moreover, the military appropriations allocated in the 30s did not allow expanding the training base in units; even the number of cartridges for firing small arms was limited. The army focused its efforts on guiding the external gloss, on combat training and parades. So America, in its aversion to war, deprived itself of prudent military force. ”
    This text contains very correct words about "prudent military force", which should underlie the construction of the Armed Forces. The main thing is that there must be a balance between defense needs and economic capabilities. It is quite clear that failure to observe this balance will sooner or later entail negative consequences.
    1. Cross
      +3
      13 January 2012 13: 10
      Quote: Ivan Krasov
      This text contains very correct words about "prudent military force", which should underlie the construction of the Armed Forces.



      and then what? do you think you need the same army, "candy" outside, but with a filling of a known substance inside?

      today, and so a lot of people howl that they are "destroying the defense industry" but point-blank do not notice the armaments entering the troops (yes, there are not as many of them as we would like, but they do!), and 20 trillion rubles is still not huhry-muhry .. ...

      any action by the authorities, even those related to the defense industry, will come across such cries about "collapses" and other things, because the opposition will always pour shit on the authorities and act "in defiance" for any reason.
      1. Ivan Krasov
        +4
        13 January 2012 15: 32
        Read carefully and with reasoning. Let me explain that before the Second World War, the Americans did not seriously engage in their defense. Therefore, such a negative assessment of the prominent US military and political figure indicated in the text. Of course, we do not need such an army. Therefore, a little later, and they made the right conclusions from their military backlog.
        We need a strong army that can withstand all modern threats, but we need everything else to ensure the vital activity of the state and people. Therefore, a certain balance must be observed. For 10000 rubles. you can’t buy a car in your pocket - just enough for a cheap bike. Sorry if again explained is not clear.
    2. jamert
      +1
      13 January 2012 16: 20
      Only the 30s are the years of the Great Depression and isolationism in American foreign policy.
      and December 7, 1941 showed the real price of this polished army.
  8. +9
    13 January 2012 10: 26
    It remains to add that we are the largest power on the planet with enormous resources, and if we do not increase the defense spending of our country and thereby strengthen the army, we risk losing Russia. There are more than enough wishing to profit here.
    1. Edward
      -1
      13 January 2012 22: 20
      I would correct that "possessing huge resources" is far from true.
      I mean that the owners of our resources are far from ours ..
      Russia has ALREADY been made a raw materials appendage. Cunningly, subtly, imperceptibly.
      as an example, nornickel is one of the rarest "our" productions
      http://ineds.nornik.ru/
      - these are the real owners of our supposedly nornickel factories. (http://www.nornik.ru/ - but how they embellish or put on camouflage .... and like this http://www.nornik.ru/about/ - allegedly "our" company ..)
      and so - everywhere, well, or almost everywhere: in the coal, aluminum, and color industries .. there is also gas and oil ..
      1. Edward
        0
        13 January 2012 22: 49
        Here's more about the nornickel, so that they wouldn’t think that they were sucked from a finger http://www.rbc.ru/fnews.open/20110322225816.shtml

        - nickel, copper, aluminum, palladium, platinum, gold - this is all the nickel .. - this is all strategic raw material.
        and how much of this "our" wealth goes to the needs of Russia?

        "The company's share in the GDP of the Russian Federation is 1,9%." - it seems a lot, but what is in this figure? - taxes and salaries. Of course, very little goes into our industry (otherwise the impudence will light up itself) ..

        I’m all this only to the fact that a turn of raw materials towards Russia, even for these crumbs (from the country's capabilities) is already a big plus.
        1. Edward
          0
          13 January 2012 23: 58
          "VLADIMIR STRZHALKOVSKY: ... We still have customs duties. And they have been increasing lately. Although I would like to note that it is clear for any economist that tariff regulation exists to protect the domestic market, and not for additional taxation. But after all, nickel production or copper is enough to supply our entire country. From 2 to 4 percent of nickel production is enough to cover all the demand in Russia, accordingly, there is no shortage of this metal in the country, the same applies to copper, there is a larger percentage. Accordingly, export and export sales do not affect and do not offend the Russian domestic market, and the establishment of a duty, and even more so an increased duty, is simply additional taxation, and, in general, everyone understands this, and the Ministry of Economy understands this, and the Ministry of Finance is understands that this is not tariff regulation. "

          I apologize that I am again talking about the Norilsk Nickel - above I quoted the general director - chairman of the board of MMC Norilsk Nickel Vladimir Strzhalkovsky (which is just a sign behind the hosts from abroad) .. here is a link to his interview
          http://norilsk-metal.livejournal.com/232638.html

          Russian wealth - NOT ALREADY Russian. All raw materials go either west or southeast ... Russia - ALREADY there is a raw materials appendage, the very one that Thatcher dreamed about.

          Hence the price of gasoline (the real owners do not allow lower prices and never will), hence the weak industry, namely the PRODUCTION of goods - because all the raw materials come mainly from Russia ...
  9. Makhalych
    +6
    13 January 2012 10: 27
    There is a good saying:
    "Who does not want to feed his army, will feed someone else's"

    We need to invest in the army to the maximum, if we want something to be a strong State, and whatever it is at all !!!
    No way without it. Now is the time. Give slack-tear !!!
    1. 0
      13 January 2012 11: 02
      it is necessary to invest in the army rationally, and not as it is now. the contentment of the officers is transcendental, and the soldiers in the army are at the level of a halop or a slave. the commander must be responsible for the soldier. and remember all the same what an officer's honor is. stop being a hamme, regardless of rank, and the most important thing is not to turn back into a "white bone", otherwise we will put it up against the wall again and the hand will not flinch.
      1. Makhalych
        +3
        13 January 2012 11: 05
        Here it no longer depends on a monetary investment, but on investing in the heads of future officers in schools and academies certain truths, rules and concepts that there is an army and that there is an officer in this army.
        Money has nothing to do with it.
        1. -3
          13 January 2012 11: 27
          you think it is normal that officers have an annual income of one million to two million rubles. and the conscript walks in rags, in rags. not the "new form" is guilty of mass pneumonia among soldiers (commanders are in the same uniform, but not sick). the soldier has no socks. no thermal underwear. food is worse than the convicts are fed. By the way, the convict has much more rights. the soldier has no rights, he is forbidden even to have a cell phone. summer come, these are not defenders. but hunters and snobs. civilian staff for them trash. literally 7-8 years ago, the colonel, the unit commander, did not consider it shameful for himself to greet a worker by the hand.
          1. Makhalych
            +2
            13 January 2012 11: 31
            I tell you about "Thomas" and you - about "Erema" honestly.
            The fact that lethekhi as you write "snatchers and snobs" or the fact that the commander of the unit does not shake hands is not from funding or not, but from what is in the heads of these people. From education.
            And to monitor the distribution of money, again, people who understand and understand, and not those who just want to put more in their pocket, should.
            And this, again, is not from financing, but from what is in the head.
            1. 0
              13 January 2012 11: 47
              finance all those heads. and for 7-8 years in our army only the monetary maintenance of com. composition, as a result of this their worldview has changed. they broke away from people, from soldiers. my opinion the conscript should have been getting portrait allowance. it might be a little snobbery. and I’m in no way generalizing. I can’t imagine that airborne schools or helicopter schools are marching. but unfortunately good commanders. and, accordingly, a minority soldier. and no matter how it happened in 1941, the bulk of the personnel commanders surrendered.
              1. Makhalych
                +1
                13 January 2012 11: 52
                Quote: core
                my opinion the conscript should have been getting portrait allowance. it might be a little snobbery.


                I agree. You should NEVER forget about a soldier !!!


                Quote: core
                but unfortunately good commanders. and, accordingly, a minority soldier.


                And this is true. Unfortunately ...
                But it is not only now. It has always been.
                It is checked on own skin ...
          2. +5
            13 January 2012 13: 21
            Go to the army, serve a year and at the same time look at what the soldiers go there, and what they eat! And then write such things.
            1. Makhalych
              +1
              13 January 2012 13: 26
              I'm mine two year served.
              And you had to eat something that you never dreamed of, and drink directly from the canals. What incidentally, I never regretted and do not regret. And if necessary, I’ll go again and through the same way.
              So "buddy", don't you frighten me with the army !!!

              Scare yourself if you haven’t served yet. Frighten and hide behind your mother. wink
              1. +4
                13 January 2012 15: 10
                The Russian army, as you might guess, is the direct heiress of the Soviet army. Therefore, soldiers still call each other comrades, drive Soviet cars, shoot from Soviet machine guns and are controlled by Soviet generals.
                Pros:

                - Inoculation of discipline. For those who did not serve, this would seem unthinkable, but it is drill and sewing on the gateways that discipline a person. The well-known feature of one of the kings, whom until recently there was an abyss everywhere: when choosing a wife, the latter was asked to untwist macrame in order to understand how patient and diligent she was. No one needs a hysteric or a slut, especially a king.
                - Power. Will and just physical. The proven long-term practice of FIZO gives the highest results in the shortest possible time. It is extremely difficult to achieve this in a citizen, if only for the reason that, in addition to pumping the house, there are other things to do, and the sergeant does not bawl at home, loudly calling for "knotted boas" and "pig dogs" for charging.

                And let the sergeants shout to us like rabid ones, but all the same a detachment is rushing to the restroom. And at night we had a nightmare ascent, but instead of physical exercises we will go to the shushar.

                Will is generally tempered in overcoming difficulties, and in overcoming hypertrophied army difficulties, will is tempered in proportion to better quality.
                - Expansion of horizons. The townspeople, especially the savage pacifists, would not think that somewhere there is still no television and the Internet. They are closed in their little world with all amenities. So why go to the army when you can watch it on TV. Village boys have a great opportunity to feel life outside the outskirts, and, which is typical for the army in general, for free. Of course, many immediately object to me, they say, free cheese only in a mousetrap. It is extremely difficult to argue with such people, even if they join the army, and only then they counterargument.
                - Empowerment. As my beloved Sergeant, the hero of the DMB under inventory number 1, said: "Everyone loves Dembel. They are admitted to the firemen and the police. Women with milkings are so dry on him. Because they will not be demobilized into the army." After the army, employers look at the individual as a disciplined and maltreated work unit. Therefore, even to a slight improvement in the environment, a serviceman reacts more clearly than an ordinary employee, who should have coffee for a computer and a toilet insulated with massage and turbocharging.
                - Acquisition of specialty. If you do not let the snot bubble and do not scrub out the toilets, and attach at least a drop (yes a little more) of your efforts, you can master some specialty that would be useful later on in civilian life. The simplest example: get a driving experience. Not to mention that, with success, prepare for exams at a university or another sharaba at the choice of the subject.



                Cons:

                It’s even uninteresting to write about them, everyone knows and emphasizes them with or without.

                What should be the army:

                I suppose you should not reinvent the wheel and think out what the army should be like. It is enough to read the Statutes and all the attached documents. It is clearly spelled out, each line - with blood, which should be the army. Just following these simple commandments (but without fanaticism, otherwise the constitutionality is provided), gives us a battle-worthy army, a perfect war machine, a forge of priceless human souls, which the state needs for successful functioning.

                Conclusion:

                To serve or not, and if to serve, to whom, everyone decides for himself. But, as another DMB hero, the glorious captain, said: “Life without an army, that love is in the gum, there is movement, there is no progress”
                http://rusarmia.com/publ/91-1-0-472
                1. I627z
                  0
                  14 January 2012 23: 12
                  smile Ascetic. When you write about the Russian (Soviet) army, follow the quotes carefully. "Boas" and so on were in Perumov's book "Skull on a Sleeve" and was pronounced by a certain staff sergeant Klaus-Maria-Pfercegentakl (sorry for the correct surname, I write it from memory) from the imperial troops, and not from the rebels.
                  A funny sight in the Russian (Soviet) army discipline German non-commissioned officers are watching.
                  Although if you recall the Soviet fleet, where there were many officers with German names. Totzhe Admiral Essen.
          3. -1
            13 January 2012 13: 50
            minus in the course of the smeared or blinded military. :) your minuses the situation in the army will not change. one must be a decent person.
            1. Makhalych
              +1
              13 January 2012 14: 00
              Quote: core
              minus in the course of the smeared or blinded military. :) your minuses the situation in the army will not change. one must be a decent person.


              Is it to me? So I didn’t seem to be minus ... No.
          4. 0
            13 January 2012 14: 35
            Sweetie, you're lying like a Pindos reporter.

            Currently, from among my friends, four serve in different parts of different types of troops (Air Force, Marine in Sevastopol, signalman in the Leningrad IN, infantryman near Moscow).

            In addition to the Marine, with whom I correspond via the Internet, I speak with everyone. They say that they are being fed for slaughter, everyone has telephones (obviously). Yes, you can only use in the evening and on weekends.

            If you are personally offended in the army (or, more likely, you have heard a lot of stories), this does not mean that everywhere and everywhere. I do not think that my guys are lying to me, and I am sincerely glad that they have everything in order with the service.
            1. Makhalych
              +2
              13 January 2012 14: 37
              Quote: Banshee
              Sweetie, you're lying like a Pindos reporter.

              Currently, from among my friends, four serve in different parts of different types of troops (Air Force, Marine in Sevastopol, signalman in the Leningrad IN, infantryman near Moscow).

              In addition to the Marine, with whom I correspond via the Internet, I speak with everyone. They say that they are being fed for slaughter, everyone has telephones (obviously). Yes, you can only use in the evening and on weekends.

              If you are personally offended in the army (or, more likely, you have heard a lot of stories), this does not mean that everywhere and everywhere. I do not think that my guys are lying to me, and I am sincerely glad that they have everything in order with the service.


              Banshee, is that the answer to me? am
              1. -1
                13 January 2012 14: 46
                No, this is the core.
                1. Makhalych
                  0
                  13 January 2012 14: 47
                  Quote: Banshee
                  No, this is the core.


                  Oh tady sorry. smile
            2. -1
              13 January 2012 14: 44
              lie! not one officer eats table food from a common boiler. even contract soldiers dine in army teahouses. I have been working in the army for 12 years and I know everything from the inside. thanks to my native Serdyukov that at least the service to the guys was reduced to a year. But they say. we know what they are saying, they arranged a kindergarten for the soldiers, now they have a quiet hour. and what fathers commanders do not sleep at lunch?
          5. +3
            13 January 2012 14: 44
            Let me doubt the correctness of your statements.

            Four of my fellow friends are currently serving. In different parts of different types of troops. Air Force, Marine, signalman, infantryman. The marine serves in Sevastopol, therefore we communicate only through VKontakte. And with the other three we call up and text message systematically and regularly.

            Accordingly, about the phone you are lying.

            And about the food. Everyone says that they feed as if for slaughter. So here you are ...

            About the form - yes. In one voice they say - shit. And boots with socks too. All somehow prefer boots with footcloths.

            You know, if you were so offended in the army, this is one thing. And if you have not been there, but just listened to the stories - another. In any case, to your greatest regret, not everything is as much in the army as you would like.
            1. +2
              13 January 2012 14: 53
              Yes, of course, they lie. All lie, one core Dartanyan.

              I served. And he also did not eat (more precisely, he ate in the officer’s canteen). And I do not repent of it. Yes, the officer is more fun. So before that, I had 2 years in Suvorov and 5 years in high school from a common cauldron. So without problems and complexes. And, if my salary allows me to crack something. what do I want (or choose from something), why should I refuse from it? Yes, it was not a question of the field, everyone ate from the letehi to the colonel the same as the privates.
              These are all cheap Ponte, a normal commander is not obliged to defiantly eat the same as a soldier. He must be a normal commander. And what he eats is his business.
              1. -3
                13 January 2012 15: 14
                so if you didn’t eat a soldier’s gruel, then please don’t come up with food for slaughter. it can be seen what our fighters are "all straight stout" look sickening. as if they are feeding current for slaughter in the literal sense. and the telephone is allowed in the evening, probably the current near Moscow or in St. Petersburg. there is a total ban on garrisons. and about the military districts (a signalman in the Leningrad Military District) this has not been done for a long time. but about boots and boots, gentlemen officers do not wear boots, and for a very long time, why so much love for footcloths and boots? 2 pairs of socks tried to wear the whole life? therefore the fighter prefers the old boot over the boots. footcloths can be washed 100 times, a sock, alas, 10 times ideally.
                1. +3
                  13 January 2012 22: 05
                  the officer does not have to eat with the soldiers and spend leisure time with them, maybe he will have to send them on his last mission tomorrow, and his moral affection will not allow this
                  1. -3
                    13 January 2012 23: 17
                    I mean. that it is not necessary to say that the conscript is fed for slaughter. if he himself did not eat this food, so to speak. The commander is not obliged to spend his leisure time with the soldier, but is obliged to share with him "all the hardships of service."
                2. 0
                  14 January 2012 07: 53
                  Well, if you have not yet learned how to read through a word, it's time to sign up for courses.

                  Quote: core
                  Why such love for footcloths and boots?


                  And here there was already such a topic, look and read. Good for the brain.

                  Quote: core
                  2 pairs of socks tried to wear all their life? therefore, the fighter prefers the old boot to the boots. Footcloths can be washed 100 times, sock, alas, 10 times ideally.


                  Listen, you, the hero of the bath-laundry of the war, I have no idea (I did not ask this question, alas) whether 2 pairs of socks can be carried through the entire service life. When shoes and socks were part of my uniform, I imagine they changed them once a week. As well as footcloths. Considering that my initial goal was military education, I, such a fool, was not interested in how many times these socks were wiped off. It was more important for me that they are clean, fit me in size and without holes. Something like this.

                  Quote: core
                  so here if you did not eat soldier balanda


                  Balanda did not eat. Ate according to the boiler norm of the MoD of that time. Especially (I mentioned this, by the way) on the field exits. Of which my service consisted on 70%. Given that he lived to 40 for years, there is no ulcer or gastritis, then everything was fine with food.

                  You seem to have a different army. And it seems sad to you that in today's army there are movements in a positive direction. You would have to speak on this topic in the committee of soldiers' mothers; they adore such people there.
                  1. -2
                    14 January 2012 14: 12
                    Yes, apparently, my army is different, not ceremonial. and do not compare the cadet life with the soldier.
            2. Makhalych
              +1
              13 January 2012 15: 07
              Kernel and Banshee.
              I think that all the same it is different everywhere.
              Somewhere like this, and somewhere ...

              I myself remember. In the squad, the feeder was simply disgusting, both in cooking and in the products themselves.
              And in the detachment MMG they just fed them for slaughter. Everything was smoked, pickled, butter, biscuits ... in general EVERYTHING. But again, at the "points" from the mangroup - where is it ... Once a month, the "board" flew in, the food would be dropped (mostly canned food) and that's it ... After 20 days everything ends and the "hunting season" begins ".
              In general ... where how. And it cannot be the same everywhere.
              1. -3
                13 January 2012 17: 49
                everywhere should be human. and so that everyone would ..
              2. 0
                14 January 2012 08: 23
                Yes, it depends on many factors.
                And from the command first. If the commander is such that he pohren all, then there is nothing to talk about. And, if 90% of commanders were like that, there wouldn’t be a conversation either.
                But it’s really that far from all are thieves, snobs, grabbers and others.
                Just these whiners are besyat.

                As for the gnats ... Well, yes, when in the field, here that God will send. God - in the sense of the head. It happened often in my time that our tushnyak would be brought three times, in oiled paper, and then - clap - the great wall of China based on 1 to our bank - 2 of theirs ... The lottery lost. However, it was consumed, and no one died.

                Again, someone like a warning. For example, it was useful for me to listen to an experienced warrant officer and from the next replenishment to take a diesel electrician. He had seen diesel for the first time in his life, but he was ousted from the 3 course of the culinary college Yoshkar-Ola. So, the ensign looked behind the diesel power plant (Che was looking at it, it was new), and Vaska Shakurov looked at our stomachs and was simultaneously trained. And by the end of the first year of service, he had this diesel capital in the workshops. Not in the sense of the repair itself, of course, but as an apprentice.
  10. Anthrax
    -6
    13 January 2012 10: 54
    And here is an example of a country where the maximum is invested in defense.
    For 24 million people, the army is 1,2 million.
    From 1995 to 1999, famine continued in North Korea. Estimates of the death toll range from 220 thousand to 3 million. During the famine, there were reports of cannibalism reported by refugees. [5] Famine led to significant changes in North Korean society.
    [edit] The course of the crisis

    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%EE%EB%EE%E4_%E2_%CA%CD%C4%D0
    Makhalych do you also want for Russia?
    1. Makhalych
      +7
      13 January 2012 11: 07
      Quote: ANTHRAX
      Makhalych do you also want for Russia?


      I want Russia to become a strong State, an Empire if you want.
      What would no one in the world, even to think, was afraid to conceive any dirty trick against my Country !!!
      And for this, we need a strong army.

      So leave the "scary tales" for those who do not want Russia's welfare and prosperity, but want to sell it at a higher price !!!

      Quote: ANTHRAX
      http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%EE%EB%EE%E4_%E2_%CA%CD%C4%D0


      But to this source, I would NEVER and NEVER refer to anything.
      Since the notorious Wikipedia, this is 85 percent of nonsense and nonsense, and only 15 percent - reliable information. wink
  11. ballian
    0
    13 January 2012 11: 27
    In general, the author is completely off topic (probably crashed on the Internet in five minutes) - the CIA estimated Soviet military spending in 1988 at 15-17%.

    2,5% (two and a half) is the OFFICIAL Soviet data).
    I’ve never seen shovels with less than 6% of the defense spending of the USSR in 1985, I never saw.
    (And about the fact that it’s very difficult to calculate real numbers, the author is not aware at all)

    Well, the fact that the USSR budget was terribly dead by the end of the 80's against the background of unremitting military expenditures was probably even passed at school.
    1. 0
      13 January 2012 11: 32
      Oh, the main "expert" has appeared. Now he will put everything in its place ... wink
      Maybe I can think of some sign for him: "Super duper expert". There are already not enough turtles, by cons, there should already be six of them ...
  12. 755962
    +4
    13 January 2012 11: 45
    Here are the disagreements of the former finance minister with the president: “I have already expressed my position that the increase in military spending in Russia poses a threat to increasing support for health and education programs. This, in fact, is the subject of my conflict with the current president, ”he said.
    Actually after that there was a kick in the ass ... Your opinion?
    1. +1
      13 January 2012 11: 55
      medicine and education this money alone would not go to.
  13. Jeen
    -1
    13 January 2012 11: 48
    It's not about the money.
    The scientific and technological basis of modern Russia does not allow turning любые money in top-level toys. The scientific and technological basis of civilization, claiming a leading position in geopolitical layouts, is the sum of infrastructure opportunities, accumulated experience and groundwork for breakthrough developments, multiplied by market efficiency and equipped with a mechanism for automatically eliminating deadlock topics.
    In all respects, even China has already put it in a belt. Not to mention the Americans looming far ahead, somewhere at the limit of visibility.
    No structural and managerial attempts and shuffling of ministerial presidents will contribute to the situation. Here grandfather Krylov was definitely right about that wonderful orchestra "... and you friends, how can you not sit down ...".
    I will say more.
    The petrodollars, which are perceived by most notes of patriots as heavenly manna, a subject of special pride and almost a panacea for the whole empire, actually play a destructive role, because they allow you to easily and without hesitation buy the benefits of Western civilization. At the same time, their own creative skills and practical knowledge burn out at the same rate as the mind of a drug addict
    1. zardoz
      +1
      14 January 2012 21: 44
      I watch and you don’t read the news ... And by the way, it’s the point in their most :)
  14. SAMEDOV SULEYMAN
    +2
    13 January 2012 11: 49
    Interestingly, Smirnov himself deleted his koment, or friends in the party tried. As for the article, I’ll say that huge amounts of money are needed for the defense industry, the main thing is that we need a serious controlling body for expenses, a step to the left, a step to the right to be shot.
    1. Makhalych
      +2
      13 January 2012 11: 58
      Quote: SAMEDOV SULEYMAN
      , the main thing is that you need a serious regulatory authority for expenses, a step to the left, a step to the right to be shot.


      Yes, you can’t do without tough measures here.
      But is it possible now, in the current situation? big question?
      When a thief is surrounded by a thief and lives off kickbacks, it is difficult to create such a controlling structure.
      1. 755962
        0
        13 January 2012 15: 31
        Up to the tower!
  15. Anthrax
    -4
    13 January 2012 12: 09
    Quote: MAhalych
    Quote: ANTHRAX Makhalych you also want for Russia? I want Russia to become a strong State, an Empire if you like. Whatever no one in the world, even to think, was afraid to plot any dirty trick against my Country !!! And for this, we need a strong army. So leave the "scary tales" for those who do not want Russia's well-being and prosperity, but want to sell it at a higher price !!! Quote: ANTHRAXhttp: //ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%EE%EB%EE%E4_ % E2_% CA% CD% C4% D0 But I would NEVER refer to this source at all. Since the notorious wikipedia, this is 85 percent of nonsense and nonsense, and only 15 percent of reliable information.


    Okay, this is not a wiki about the city in the DPRK
    A country where 25-30% of GDP is military spending
    A few weeks ago, the head of UN humanitarian operations, Valerie Amos, stated that North Korea was not able to independently meet the food needs of the country's population, despite the “best weather conditions” that persist in the country. She emphasized that a third of children under 5 years of age suffer from chronic malnutrition, and that in the northern part of the country this number reaches 45% - emphasizing that North Korea received only 34% of the assistance that it requested in April this year and the amount which is equal to 73 million dollars. In total, approximately 6 million people — with a total population of 24 million — need humanitarian assistance. According to UNICEF, in North Korea, 11.400 children die every year before they turn 5

    http://newsera.ru/2011-12-24/7652_desjatki_tsjatch_ludeio_v_severnoio_koree_ymir
    aut_ot_goloda.htm

    The program "first thing the military"
    О
    about a million people died during the famine in North Korea in 1995-1997. Now the World Food Program fears another famine is threatening Korea - the country's agricultural production is likely to drop to 1,8 million tons of grain, which is much less than the 4,8 million tons that are needed to provide ordinary people in North Korea their meager diet is about 200 grams per day (half the daily ration of refugees in UN camps). To make matters worse, national food supplies ran out in January, and humanitarian aid for North Korea ended this month.

    http://www.day.kiev.ua/80870/
    World media report a disastrous situation in North Korea. Hungry residents eat everything, even grass struggling out of the ground. The elderly, children, pregnant and lactating women found themselves in a particularly difficult situation. Frosts affected up to 80 percent of the sown area, and livestock massively dies from non-feed and diseases. Dramatically rising food prices complement the picture of disaster. The authorities are ready to spend money mainly on weapons, parades and even on a program to create their own nuclear and missile arsenal.

    Today, North Korea is perhaps the most isolated state, both from its neighbors and from its own people. The ruling dynasty, which proclaimed its country as the People’s Democratic Republic, cares only about maintaining its own power and, not fearing its powerless people, prepares for war with the whole world.

    In the nineties of the last century, hundreds of thousands of people died of hunger in North Korea, the country was saved from extinction only by aid from the "hated capitalists". Including the neighbor - South Korea, one of the leading economies among developing countries.
    While the World Food Program feeds six million North Korean children, seventeen million adults must rely on themselves. (The “military first thing” program means that most food supplies are given to North Korea’s huge standing army and bureaucracy.

    http://kabmir.com/novosti/golod_v_severnoj_koree.html
    http://daypic.ru/accident/82486
    1. Makhalych
      +3
      13 January 2012 12: 10
      Quote: ANTHRAX
      Okay, this is not a wiki about the city in the DPRK
      A country where 25-30% of GDP is military spending


      Why are you telling me all about these unfortunate Koreans give an example?
      They, the northern ones, are always poor and hungry throughout life. And it always has been.

      I understand you would say about the famine in the United States, Germany or England, because all the money swelled into the army.
      And so ... not an argument.

      Strong country needs a strong army !!!
      And without funds for its development, she, the army, cannot be strong in principle.

      Tell me, are you for a strong Russia?
      If not, then everything is clear.
      1. Anthrax
        -3
        13 January 2012 12: 47
        But when they (the USA, Germany, or England), as North Koreans, would pump 25-30% of the GDP into the army, then they would also periodically flare up hunger.
        In South Korea, military spending is lower as a percentage of GDP and in absolute terms.
        And South Korea is a prosperous country.
        The South Korean auto industry is a difficult level for us.
        But in South and North Korea live the same Koreans.
        And if the United States with shaving shoves up defense like us at 8% of GDP, their health care will be as backward as ours and civil science will lag behind and industry will be bent due to high taxes.
        1. Makhalych
          +2
          13 January 2012 12: 59
          Do you suggest leaving everything as it is? Or vice versa, even cut costs?
          Better to remove the army altogether. Let us surrender ourselves to all kinds of "benefactors" and we will not have a life ... a fairy tale .... that's just a terrible one.
          But as I understand it, this is exactly what you need. wink
        2. Michael 9999
          +1
          14 January 2012 11: 45
          but what about the best education system in the USSR (even the Yankees recognized it) and health care is not the worst, but the money went to the army, see the article above, and when we were compared with the upper volta, it was someone from a galaxy of fighters with a totalitarian USSR and even about korea, southern democracy is very young there not very long ago the military junta ruled there and developed it as a picture for the north
  16. J_silver
    +3
    13 January 2012 12: 26
    Of course, if you entrust such money to the current sawmills, it will hurt, otherwise it will undoubtedly only benefit!
  17. Anthrax
    -3
    13 January 2012 12: 28
    Where did they swell money in the army ??
    In Germany ?? !! Is this a joke? Do you have to laugh?
    In Germany, military spending is 1,3% of GDP!
    . Germany




    Costs in 2010: $ [45.2] billion

    Change 2001 - 2010: [-2.7%]

    Share of GDP: [1.3%]

    Although Germany has one of the largest military budgets in the world, its military spending as a share of GDP is not very comparable with other countries. She has the second smallest percentage of GDP on this list of countries. Expenditures in 2010 fell by 1.3 percent after the Ministry of Defense recommended closing several military bases and reducing troops from 250 to 180 thousand people.

    http://mixednews.ru/archives/5508
    In the UK, military spending is 2,3% of GDP.
    In Japan, 1% of GDP.
    And it’s they who pump money into the army? Any joke or something?
    And our 4% of military spending on GDP cannot be trusted!
    A lie! One state defense order 2 trillion a year, which is 5% of GDP!
    Moreover, current military expenditures (salary, fuel and lubricants, uniforms, etc.) under 2 trillion, and soon there will be 2.8 trillion a year!
    1. Makhalych
      +1
      13 January 2012 12: 32
      Quote: ANTHRAX
      Where did they swell money in the army ??
      In Germany ?? !! Is this a joke? Do you have to laugh?


      No, these are posts when you try to answer them carefully, you need to read. wink
      To not ask stupid questions. wink

      Where did I write that they swelled money?
      Read carefully, carefully, without rushing. wink

      In general, your position is clear.
  18. Anthrax
    -3
    13 January 2012 12: 35
    And here where the USA invest money, by the way in 2007 who fought in 2 countries.
    The United States spends more on health care than any other country, both in absolute terms and in relation to gross domestic product (GDP) per capita. So, only in 2007 did the country spend on $ 2,26 trillion in health (16% of GDP), or $ 7439 for one person.
    http://www.rosmedportal.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1410:20

    11-10-11-21-28-46&catid=25:the-project
    How many times is this more than US military spending in 2007?
    But from their military expenditures it is necessary to subtract 200 billion expenses for 2 wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
    But we are not at war with anyone and spend 7-8% of GDP on defense, and in 2014 we will spend 10%!
    1. Makhalych
      +1
      13 January 2012 12: 39
      Quote: ANTHRAX
      But we are not at war with anyone and spend 7-8% of GDP on defense, and in 2014 we will spend 10%!


      Amerikosov simply cut not on such a wide foot as we have now set. wink
      If all our interests went to the army, and so ... ROS-PIL ... wink
      1. Jeen
        -2
        13 January 2012 13: 07
        Cut is the tip of the iceberg. And this is not a cause, but a concomitant symptom
        1. Makhalych
          +2
          13 January 2012 13: 09
          Yes, this is understandable. But sawing tsuki, sawing ...
      2. +3
        13 January 2012 13: 25
        They have a market economy much higher than ours. Why would they cut less? Another thing is that many of their development schemes are legalized.
    2. +2
      13 January 2012 13: 20
      Printing and spending is not the same as collecting and spending
    3. 0
      15 January 2012 08: 39
      Anthraxbut nothing that the US has a military budget of 660 billion dollars? 10 times more than ours.
  19. Anthrax
    +1
    13 January 2012 13: 50
    Quote: MAhalych
    But we are not at war with anyone and spend 7-8% of GDP on defense, and in 2014 we will spend 10%! Amerikosov simply cut not on such a wide foot as we have now set. If all our interests went to the army, and so ... ROS-PIL ...


    You don’t have to blame everything on it.
    In health care, there is also a spree.
    But in the USA, I cut even more.
    And then the money allocated for defense in billions in the USA is worthless, and the output is small.
    No new tanks have been built since 1993, and strategic nuclear missiles are also not new for several years.
    The average age of an Amer military aircraft is 27-28 years.
    Our years are 4 newer.
    In 2011, more than 100 new military verticals were built in the Russian Federation, more than in all of NATO


    There is a cut official - lobbying is called.
    And there is an underground American saw like this, for example
    АUS Army Spends $ 20 Billion Per Year on Air Conditioners in Iraq and Afghanistanв
    ... This statement was made by retired Brigadier General Steve Anderson, "Echo of Moscow" reports.

    In an interview with the British newspaper The Daily Telegraph, he noted that these costs can be significantly reduced if desired. For example, tents could be covered with special insulation to keep them cool longer.

    Anderson was once responsible for supplying the American contingent in Iraq.


    аAn An LLC LLC from the USA takes $ 7,5 million from the Americans for a switch. Similar contracts with "strange deviations in the price of the company with the Americans for $ 900 million. Only on circuit breakers Anham LLC earned $ 300 million.

    A $ 183 circuit breaker was sold to the Pentagon for $ 4, fragments of a sewer pipe worth $ 500 - $ 1,41 each.

    Since the start of the Iraq war with the Pentagon, 34 thousand 728 contracts worth $ 35,9 billion have been concluded and executed by commercial entities. Boven claims that at least 39% of all these contracts are “problematic”.

    http://vz.ru/news/2011/8/1/511458.html
    1. Makhalych
      0
      13 January 2012 14: 02
      Quote: ANTHRAX
      But in the USA, I cut even more.


      You probably know better. Are you from there? wink
  20. dred
    -2
    13 January 2012 14: 06
    Hello everyone. With the old new year! One question. Is 20 trillion for 2012 or until 2020?
    1. +1
      13 January 2012 15: 14
      Until 20 th. On the twelfth we will not pull so much.
  21. NickitaDembelnulsa
    +2
    13 January 2012 17: 18
    Russia needs a powerful army, but it’s also worthwhile expenses, the goal is not simple ...
  22. pinkhasik
    +2
    13 January 2012 17: 31
    Small and large financing is bad. Why?

    The main reason is a vicious wage system. She was like that in the USSR, she became even worse in the new Russia. Income from personal property spoils any system of remuneration other than monetary capitalism. And income from personal property and wages adopted in all (with few exceptions) countries stimulate the achievement of stability of power. The same purpose of the wage system was in the USSR.

    The society (population) has a different goal: to constantly increase the efficiency of resource use. That is why no one in the USSR or in the new Russia seeks to increase the efficiency of using the country's main resource - the population. What should be the system of remuneration? The unified state system of remuneration should stimulate the development of qualifications, professionalism, good faith, the implementation of production and technological discipline and increased efficiency in the use of resources, which means that remuneration should be subject to conditions, qualifications and the amount of labor, as well as for realized abilities to increase efficiency the use of resources, taking into account the personal contribution to the use of innovation, taking into account the type of contribution, type of profit or other positive effect, taking into account the limitation of personal income, which decreases with an increase in the citizen's social position.

    In order to introduce such an optimal system of remuneration for labor and the effect of it, you don’t have to break anything, you just need to demand "the whole world" from the government to lose the obvious absurdity - there is a public sector in the country's economy, and private banks serve it, which is "a BANK for the public sector is needed economics. " The public sector is not only the army, it is the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and the Ministry of Emergencies, the entire structure of state power, and science, and the defense industry, and space, etc., etc.

    The only thing that stops the government while maintaining the status quo is that it will have to restructure: to ensure the stability of power, not by the meager treasury of the country, but by its development.
  23. +4
    13 January 2012 20: 48
    The more we invest in the Army, the more our country will benefit from this in all areas of the economy !!! It is a fact!!!
    1. Anthrax
      0
      13 January 2012 21: 00
      Quote: sprut

      sprut Today, 20:48 new
      - 0 +
      The more we invest in the Army, the more our country will benefit from this in all areas of the economy !!! It is a fact!!!

      What is such a conviction based on?
      DPRK example with hunger and backwardness proves the opposite
  24. +2
    13 January 2012 20: 52
    If you want peace, get ready for war. Nobody has canceled this truth yet.
  25. Anthrax
    -3
    13 January 2012 21: 15
    Quote: Hippo
    If you want peace, get ready for war. Nobody has canceled this truth yet.

    In which country do millions of suicides live who want to attack a country with nuclear weapons?
    The potential of China’s nuclear weapons is 3-4% of our nuclear potential and even on bad and backward carriers.
    And the Chinese believe that this is enough for them, they are developing it an order of magnitude slower than Russia.
    What country do suicides live in?
  26. LiRoy
    +3
    13 January 2012 22: 14
    Opinions that one of the factors in the collapse of the USSR was its excessive military-industrial complex can be attributed to "perestroika" myths with the aim of drumming people into their heads with the idea that because of it they live badly and it is not worth holding on to it like the country. In order to manipulate the minds of people, they assessed the Soviet military-industrial complex from the point of view of economic capitalism and concluded that it was not beneficial by imposing it on people. However, this method did not take into account the fact that the enterprises of the military-industrial complex dragged on themselves the entire social sector and supported the viability of entire cities. One can speak of the USSR as a state that fully produced cannons and oil, while you need to understand that oil means affordable housing, free medicine, full education and confidence in the future, and not chewing gum, jeans, Coca-Cola, and permissiveness.
  27. Anthrax
    +1
    13 January 2012 22: 21
    The USSR collapsed, of course, not an overly developed military apparatus.
    The DPRK itself is not falling apart. It is only dying of hunger
    The collapse of the USSR occurred for other reasons.
    But the low standard of living is largely due to high military spending.
    In order for the country to have good roads, roads must be built, not military aircraft.
    And in order for oil to be needed, agricultural vehicles, not tanks.
    1. zardoz
      0
      15 January 2012 18: 54
      After the collapse, there were no roads, no planes .... And the same story with tanks and cars. But before the collapse there were roads with airplanes and a cx-technique with tanks. You can read the statistics more than once here on the site.
  28. ole
    ole
    +4
    13 January 2012 22: 33
    China may be active the next year and will not go to the side of Russia, but with quiet glanders he narrowed most of the territory with his subjects, the media work purely in Chinese, not only in large cities of the Far East, but also in the Urals. Great wide roads to our borders were built, plus a huge ground army. China is a very secretive adversary and I think it is inappropriate to talk about obsolete nuclear weapons.
  29. Anthrax
    +3
    13 January 2012 23: 04
    Quote: ole
    China may be active the next year and will not go to the side of Russia, but with quiet glanders he narrowed most of the territory with his subjects, the media work purely in Chinese, not only in large cities of the Far East, but also in the Urals. Great wide roads to our borders were built, plus a huge ground army. China is a very secretive adversary and I think it is inappropriate to talk about obsolete nuclear weapons.

    I would like to know in which war China won in the last thousand years?
    And we can talk not about obsolete carriers, but about obsolete tanks, because 6000 of the 8000 Chinese tanks are the T-54 model of 1946, naturally under different names and after some modernization.
    You can also talk about obsolete Chinese aircraft MiG-21 or MiG-23, also under Chinese names.
    And the basis of the Chinese transport aviation AN-2 "maize", having the 2nd place in terms of GDP in the world, China is in no hurry to invest in the army and the military-industrial complex.
    China is scary only in the stories of Khramchikhin and Aladdin
    1. +1
      13 January 2012 23: 22
      I agree that China has nothing to fight with us, everything that he needs he will buy from us. China understands that start to fight with us, the general people stick a tomahawk in his back. Do the Chinese need this?
  30. +3
    13 January 2012 23: 26
    The article is good, but disagree with the figures for defense during the Soviet era. The figure of 19 billion rubles was almost unchanged in defense spending until the mid-80's, but these are only figures for the purchase of new military equipment. So for example, one meal of an urgent composition amounted to more than 1 billion rubles a year. Settlement - 3 million conscripts for 1 rubles / day for 365 days. And this does not include the salary of miners 7 rubles / month, 2-x pairs of tarpaulin boots and 2-x pairs of tunics with breeches per year, monthly underwear and footcloths. And there were 1 million officers in the SA, and they cost the budget at least once in 10 more than soldiers. And who does not know, one cartridge for AKM was worth something 0.7 rubles. I personally shot at least 30 pieces, that is, a horn, once a month. And there were exercises on which these cartridges were fired at 10 horns, though the horns of 8 are single. But when I found out that one radar buoy for detecting a submarine cost like a VAZ 2106, I went nuts. And when I found out, on combat patrols they are discarded more than once and for the most part they are single-use, they cannot find them, and hundreds of sorties per year to detect enemy SSBNs are done twice. But when I just calculated how many sorties are made for the training of cadets of the VVVAUSh (navigator school) with TU-134 and AN-26 aircraft, I was precipitated. And there were two such schools, and there were over a hundred different military schools ... It was just in the 1985 year. Then squeezed out of the tagged that the total budget for the entire defense was at least 3 times larger. And this figure is true to a first approximation. The entire consolidated budget, by the way, amounted to 1985 billion rubles of revenues and 367 expenses in 386, and not GNP as in the article. And defense spending was 4,9% or 18,9 billion rubles. And in 1989, the budget for revenues was 384,9 billion rubles, and for expenses 465,1 billion rubles, and defense spending is already 14,1% of the item of expenditure or 65, 58 billion rubles. As you can see, defense spending grew with increasing publicity. And people already had to explain that our defense costs are not so small, life has become different. I note then that inflation was not at 100% per year, and in fact, initiatives to reduce arms were constantly put forward. But the figure has more than tripled in the 4 year. Therefore, it was high, and taking into account the figures of expenses for law enforcement and GB, it was approaching 16-17% of all budget expenditures. This is so by the way. All figures are taken http://www.budgetrf.ru
    The second statement about the military-industrial complex, whether it adversely affected the development of the USSR. My answer is pretty much yes. Even America could not afford to have such a variety of weapons nomenclature. I understand that they are pioneers in logistics and standardization, but by the beginning of the 70's this experience could have been adopted. Especially on the most expensive types of weapons - the Air Force and Navy. We were proud that each tank or aircraft was unique with us, and they were really unique, as were the unique spare parts for this tank or aircraft. For each model of military equipment, we created our own production chain, which is why we are not able to build single-seat SU-25 at the Ulan-Ude plant, but only build local 2's, while only single-seaters were built in Tbilisi. If I am mistaken, then thank God. I understand the experience of the Second World War, factories of understudies, even design burers of understudies, but the equipment often performs the same task, for example, tanks, and they were built more than in the rest of the world combined, in my opinion the military-industrial complex was damaging.
    But everything in the world is dialectical. But we, in the USSR, had our own achievements not inferior to the West, with a clearly weaker technological and especially elemental base. True money and the most important motivation to implement it all for a simple worker was not. And why, in the military-industrial complex, and so they lived, better than even in the SA. Consequently, the slogan of conversion was not what to do instead of fencing pans, but to transfer the development of the military-industrial complex to the national economy, and our tractors, as they joked, were bought by the Japanese instead of scrap metal, and we produced these tractors more than anyone else in the world. There was no motivation for the military-industrial complex to share technologies; there was no motivation for the national economy to introduce these technologies, but this is another story. Therefore, they were surprised in the West - the USSR is capable of making a lunar rover, but it is not capable of making a decent car, they sincerely were surprised.
    S. Pereslegin said - we pay for defense as much as we think it costs for us at present. In the USSR, we paid one price, and perhaps this price was insufficient, since the USSR did not. In 90 we paid a different price, and strangely enough we didn’t lose Chechnya, and saved the state. At zero we paid the third price, and won 080808. 20 trillions to maintain our security, perhaps extremely small, to win the world war, where there will be no winners, but God forbid that was enough for the security of my country. I still hope that our leadership has calculated everything correctly.
  31. Anthrax
    +2
    13 January 2012 23: 32
    No one needs a big war.
    Yes, and small too.
    leave the bombs on top of wherever else went.
    And from ground operations, both the USA and NATO after Iraq and Afghanistan shy away in horror.
    And they will not send landmen to Iran, although they can and will be bombed.
    Totalitarian regimes are still capable of fighting, but fortunately these are small countries.
    The exception is big China, but it is good even without war, it is getting richer and developing.
    And the main goal of China to restore territorial integrity is to turn Taiwan.
    There are no threats to Russia now except separatists and terrorists
  32. 443190
    +2
    13 January 2012 23: 38
    Guys !!! What is there to argue ??? The question is being solved, like the old classic - "to be or not to be?" ... Therefore, decide that money or consciousness is primary ...
  33. +4
    14 January 2012 15: 48
    The USSR collapsed not because of defense spending, but because of a pack of Judas in the Kremlin.
  34. -1
    14 January 2012 17: 28
    Our state is harmed not by excessive defense expenditures, but by an excessive rush of officials, commensurate with the defense budget.
  35. recril
    0
    14 January 2012 19: 09
    it seems to me that defense spending is needed, and not small, in order to achieve a good effect) but unfortunately in those days they said they spent a lot of money on defense and it was of little use, but only because not all this money went where it should)) you you know guys)
  36. Jupiter
    +2
    14 January 2012 22: 57
    Without an army, there will be no education or health care. And then we ourselves will not be either, most likely ...
  37. Lyp
    Lyp
    0
    14 January 2012 23: 31
    Greetings! Those who participate in the discussion of this article. Reading the comments, I catch myself thinking that many people confuse into one concept "share of military production in GDP", "military budget" and other terms. In addition, it must be understood that in none of the openly presented sources there are reliable figures showing the real picture of how much labor actually spent was directed to products and their components in one way or another related to defense and law enforcement. And also for various R&D in this area. All open assessments are of an expert nature and at the time of publication they pursue goals known only to their authors (someone exaggerates these costs in order to denigrate the situation, someone, on the contrary, underestimates them in order to attract financial resources). In this regard, I also want to express my expert assessment and then my judgments.
    In order to estimate the amount of labor attributable to the production of goods and services for defense purposes during the Soviet era, it is enough to say that the majority of enterprises that have the words "machine-building", "mechanical", "instrument-making", "metallurgical" in their names were either defense products themselves, or their components, or materials (as an example of an enterprise (of which only JSCs that are part of Roskosmos http://www.federalspace.ru/main.php?id=290) .If someone could cover how many enterprises and organizations had a second closed name - "Mailbox No. .......", and what percentage of the total number of enterprises in the USSR is that we would be horrified at this number (I suspect that this is more than 70%).
    And this is not counting the direct labor costs in the framework of the USSR Ministry of Defense.
    The enterprises and organizations of which I spoke above have not gone away; they, together with all of us, have moved from the USSR to the current Russian Federation. Well, except for those who remained in the republics that left us, those alas! have gone out of business or are now dragging out a miserable existence.
    In this regard, I want to assess the situation so expertly - IN the USSR, SUFFICIENT investments were made in various areas of defense, since we have not suffered a single direct military defeat since the Second World War, but it is catastrophically small for the development of the civilian sphere. Such is the dialectic.
    Of course, many of us are right when we write that defense development is the engine of progress. And I would like to believe that at least most of the funds allocated for defense will currently go towards the development of this progress. And most importantly, somehow a cartoon economic mechanism will emerge that would make it possible to grow 10-15 rubles from each ruble spent in the defense sphere in the civil sphere. (I wish I knew what kind of mechanism it was to avoid those mistakes that prevented the effective implementation of the process called "Conversion" in the late 80s, then "Acceleration", and nowadays "Innovative development").
    I really want, on the one hand, to be sure that our Russia really has enough forces and means to repel any aggression both now and in the future, and on the other hand, to be proud of its own successes in civilian spheres (computers and processors for them, cars (VAZ, GAZ, UAZ and others), fly on business trips by airplanes (IL, TU, Yak and others, and so that they do not fall) and other things. But where to get all this money for development and production?
  38. Anthrax
    -1
    15 January 2012 20: 07
    What kind of kindergartens ?! or the military-police budget of Russia

    A source in the military-industrial complex told Izvestia that it was a question of 1,5–1,7 thousand Italian cars, which should be assembled in Russia. For each Russia, it will pay Italian company Iveco from? 300 thousand to? 500 thousand, depending on modifications and agreements - the exact cost has not yet been determined. The Ministry of Defense has confirmed that it does not refuse to purchase Italian light armored vehicles from the Italian company Iveco.


    http://www.izvestia.ru/news/506497
    http://www.izvestia.ru/news/506497


    300.000 * 1.500 = 450.000.000 euros, more precisely, at least 450 million euros or at least 19 billion rubles will be given to Italy!

    КMari El's consolidated budget for revenue for 2010 was executed in the amount of 19 billion 156,4 million rubles

    These are expenses of the whole region on education, healthcare. Roads, housing and communal services, salaries of budget employees, etc.


    http://news.vmariel.ru/5896-itogi-ispol ... iy-el.html
    http://news.vmariel.ru/5896-itogi-ispol ... iy-el.html
    An interesting coincidence.
    We are for the fact that we are building on the Italian model of armored vehicles will give the money to Italy more than the entire budget of the Republic of Mari El !!!.
    And this is not counting their own costs for the construction of armored vehicles.
    And armored vehicles are a negligible part of the entire range of weapons supplied to our ground troops !!! But there is still a Strategic Missile Forces, Air Force, Navy, Space Forces, Airborne Forces, etc.
    What kind of roads are there, kindergartens and tomographs.
  39. +1
    18 January 2012 13: 33
    It’s not the defense industry that will ruin the country, but the bureaucracy that eats up 40% of the country's GDP (according to a foreign observer, published in the newspaper AiF in 2010).
  40. Anthrax
    -1
    18 January 2012 13: 39
    The country's GDP is about 45 trillion rubles.
    That is, 20 trillion annually settles in the pockets of officials?
    For 5 years, 100 trillion rubles or 3 trillion dollars.
    So, every official pawn from the district health department would have a golden toilet in the apartment.
    Lies
  41. 0
    21 January 2012 08: 25
    Like children! Take pictures of you about the houses in the suburbs?
  42. 0
    4 January 2015 15: 13
    The Americans don’t really save. And they live on their own slowly. There, military expenses are simply astronomical. This proves that the military-industrial complex does not kill the economy. I’m not talking about new technologies, jobs and a place on the arms market (very profitable, by the way). weapons - independence from other countries and finally international authority. Nobody canceled the phrase about feeding a foreign army.