There is no need to shout. On the issue of debt restructuring in Ukraine

November 17, 2015 433

I would like to give a few comments about the sensational informational note.
"The President of Russia announced the decision on the restructuring of Ukrainian debt". And followers comments on it.

How many times have the world been told that first it is necessary to understand what is happening, and only then shout about the need for Maidan and others. Incorrect materials happen in which the essence of the moment is not fully reflected. But there are primary sources to which these materials refer. Carefully reading both the note and the comments, reading the original source, I want to say the following: let's deal line by line.

It must be said that informational notes differ from the articles in that they carry the main message, so to speak. Yes, in our case the message was a bit flawed. But this does not change the essence of what is happening.

So, discarding the "flashy headlines" of the media, designed to attract the attention of readers, we look at what Putin said.

"Russia has offered to extend the payment on the debt of Ukraine for 2016-2018 for $ 1 billion per year, said Russian President Vladimir Putin to journalists."

Here is the key word - "suggested“Therefore, even the title of the TASS message is“ crooked. ”The payment was not postponed. Only the offer was made.

"We were asked to postpone payment for the next year in the amount of $ 3 billion. I said that we are ready for a deeper restructuring. We are ready for this year not to receive any money at all, and to receive a billion next year, in 2017 year - another billion and in 2018 a year - another billion ”(V. Putin).

From this statement, it all started. "Putinlisl", "naspredali", "vernitenashidigi" and stuff like that. Kindergarten, not comments, to be honest. It seems that Ukraine has these 3 billion just lying in the basement of the State Bank, and the only question is how to give them to Russia - cash, lard or transfer.

Dear readers, are you talking about? What kind of return of any debt? Ukraine for interest alone can not scrape money. And you already shout about debts. Or do you seriously think that there, across the ocean, a kind uncle will pour three billion so that life in Russia becomes more fun with them?

What kind of world do you exist in?

I quote Putin again. Just that moment, which is not included in the note.

"Since our partners are confident that the creditworthiness of the Ukrainian state will grow, and we have no reason to doubt that we will receive even three billion next year, there are no concerns among our partners to come up with a guarantee on this loan."

Here! This is where everything that you screamed around is hidden. This is not Putin who came up with the initiative to forgive Ukraine’s debt. It was him somewhere there, on the sidelines, they mumbled, arguing that "the creditworthiness of the Ukrainian state will grow." And who rebelled on the restructuring? Yeah ...

Farther. Masterpiece.

"And we have no reason to doubt that we will receive even three billion next year, there are no fears from our partners to come up with a guarantee on this loan."

I translate. Especially for those who raised the liberokrik. If the EU and the United States believe that things in Ukraine will go to the amendment (with the help of the IMF), then, gentlemen intercessor, give us (Russia) a guarantee that you are responsible for the market.

It's simple.

Do you (in the West) think that everything in Ukraine will be chocolate at next year? No problem. We are ready not just to wait, but even how: one billion a year. BUT YOU us it guarantee.

All (or almost all) took credit in their lives. Who is the guarantor / guarantor of the loan? This is the one who, in the event of your insolvency, repays your debt to the bank for you. And you will deal in my own way. As a guarantee.

So, gentlemen screamers. Putin is trying (it is trying, in the West, too, not fools are sitting) to shape Russia with a sort of bank. And in the event of a final and irrevocable default of Ukraine, fuck anything from the West. Because from Ukraine, of course, nothing really can be taken. Officially at least.

veksha50
Quote: Yuyuka
2) who said that we with the help of the courts would not have pulled out this money, at least through the seizure of property and sanctions? we still buy goods from them ??
Um ... You forgot how much in Russia in the case of Yukos hung ???
How was our sailing training bark arrested ??? Well, and so on, and in the same vein ...
Through the court line with two things, we’ll get something out ... There, the Egghead is no longer 3 lard, but trillions Russia considers the debts, and it will be the same ... to write and sue ... And the debriefing will last 100 years before grandma’s conspiracy ...

In fact, the voice of crying in the wilderness. However, there is more logic and reason than in putntsil cries in 50. I find it difficult to calculate what kind of gray matter and how much it is necessary to have in order to seriously expect that those sitting in Stockholm, Geneva, Brussels and other The Hague will be seriously concerned about getting Russia its debts. But by the number of relevant comments it is noticeable that there is a shortage.

Karlovar
In addition, we are not talking about debt forgiveness, but talking about a deferral on 3 year! It seems that people only read the article title, and the article itself - no ...

And this is normal. The main thing here is to shout louder. And for this to read line by line and by letter is not necessary at all. I will say even more, and there is no need to read the article. Title and comments. It is enough to give birth to a cry of an indignant soul.

torp (1) SU
This is not a move! This is a waste! And shameful !!

Baikonur (5) SU
I told you, ours will be blown away!
Well, until the Nazis will forgive? BUT! At what gate can such humiliation and insults come into? Citizens of Russia, which raise utility tariffs, taxes, prices !!! What kind of e ........... ????

Angro Magno SU
I did not speak, but quietly was afraid of it. It turns out, not in vain afraid. I sensed.
It remains to congratulate the pupils from the present, but not fictional Peremoga. Yaytsenyuk did Putin, as promised.
Interestingly, what will the witnesses of the BSP now?

Oh, these loud-shouting ones from under the USSR flag ... Moreover, for the most part, unnamed users. In general, the last time this flag is just a refuge for such here ... know-all and all-understanding.

People are smart, they understand that zero, no matter what you do with it arithmetically, will remain zero. But this is difficult to understand, apparently. Of course, serve you tank columns marching from Kiev to Calais, victorious reports and all that. Including for some reason you really want this final and irrevocable default of Ukraine.

Directly Tukhachevsky, neither give nor take. Shut off the gas, arrange a default ... Thank God that the god does not give horns to the awesome cows, otherwise they would definitely have blocked them. And hopealti. You, judging by the statements of the Ukrainian authorities about all the people, don’t understand too much, you don’t even want to voice.

But one thing I will voice all the same. Two can "not reach." By all possible methods of postponing the default of Ukraine, Putin and his associates are “holding” the Donbass. It is difficult for you, loud-voiced, to understand that in the event of a final and irrevocable financial collapse of the Ukrainian system, the first thing that will be done is to cut off the power supply of Donbass and Crimea. And about this Demchishin spoke, and spoke more than once. You can shout that there is “everything in the ointment” and “everything is seized”, but many here, including us, are aware of who has been seized there, and how.

And personally, we will be very pleased if December 20 does not become a “D-day” for Donbass and Crimea. We, unlike you, understand this. Although the hope that the West will accept Putin’s proposal is minimal, we still hope that the case will burn out.

And we will be quite satisfied if our friends are in the Donbas, that in Ukraine they will be able to survive this winter relatively normally. Of course, in the concept of any agromagno it does not fit, but ...

The smartest and greatest man in stories the Russian state once said: "You need great upheavals, but I need a great Russia." So we want not only great Russia to be, but also Ukraine. And for this it is necessary that those who will build this Ukraine remain there.

Putin took another step that no one expected from him. Smart and tough in content. And God forbid that he got it all.

And if someone does not like it, then, together with one of our marshals, they can unanimously "turn their backs to Putin" (we do not know how he will survive it) and go in the opposite direction. To the west. And we sincerely wish you good luck and success.

Information

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Alekseits

0

17 November 2015 11: 35

Quote: user
unless December 20 is D-Day for Donbass and Crimea.

Donbass to support the land borders, and Crimea in December should be connected to electricity. This "must" has a position and a surname, and if you do not play in democracy, then they will connect. Therefore, scare Poroshenko about D-Day, if they want exacerbations (or rather, if they force them), then about these 3 billion, no one will say "the separatists provoked", but this endless feeding of Ukraine is already tired, you better look at least how now all state employees are salaries are cut (in Moscow, most likely, they do not even know), all allowances are removed. And it's time to stop looking good on the world stage, and try to look (well, at least 3) in your Russian Federation.

The December connection will provide only 50% of Crimea; the supply will be fully established in mid-2016. How would you like to live until then?
1. DobryAAH
  
  +3
  
  17 November 2015 13: 46
  
  They promised to lay the cable at the end of this year, now in the middle of next year, then everywhere... How are things with the bridge, will we also move it to 2057?
mihasik

+11

17 November 2015 11: 35

Putin took another step that no one expected from him. Smart and tough in content. And God forbid that he got it all.

What have you remembered and trusted about God? Not completely sure? But what about cold calculation? Why do the authors look at the effect and not the cause? Why was it necessary to give this money to Ukraine (at least they didn’t give 15 billion dollars) if they knew what the US and EU were preparing? Or didn’t they know?) Were you too confident in yourself? Putin constantly corrects the mistakes of his subordinates, and his own too. Or is it not? A striking example is Mr. Medvedev. Certainly! Now it will rain down: He who does nothing is not mistaken. The counter-question is to create vigorous activity for the sake of activity, and then correct this activity back, is this the strategy of our Government? I would like to ask: Our strategy is to create problems for ourselves, and then fight them successfully or not? Is this some kind of national game?
There were shouts from patriots: “Putin doesn’t need just the LDPR, Russia needs all of Ukraine!” Now what? And now we hear: Since the West “grabbed” Ukraine, let it be responsible for it! And it is right! But is this an indirect recognition that the “entire” Ukraine (well, as before) of the Russian Federation can no longer be seen as its ears? Or are there naive people who think differently? No, of course, Ukraine is not going anywhere, just like the Baltic states and the “friendly” countries of the former CMEA. But it definitely won’t be fraternal anymore. So what are all these preferences for? Trade according to the conditions and rules of the market. No. Hope dies last?
Yes, I'm more of a pessimist than an optimist. The modern history of the USSR and Russia taught me this.
To the authors. Why do you think it is possible to ridicule people who have not rushed into the “bosom of complete trust” in the current government?
Didn't the robbery of the population with the collapse of the ruble teach you anything? Yes, there was little choice: either pay salaries and subsidies or “hold” the ruble. But who brought it to this state? The population of the Russian Federation, the USA, the EU or the pro-Western, liberal economic policy of the Russian Government?
I am not calling for you to run and vote for the “new” government - in any case, there are no better options. But maybe the “Big Uncles” will first measure 25 times before cutting (counting out) billions to dubious payers? Or has the history of the USSR’s debts taught us nothing?
Served once

+7

17 November 2015 11: 36

Putin’s plan is, of course, very cunning. We are unlikely to see or find out whether it will be translated into real life. Powerful men are great at bending their people! These efforts would be to obtain “forgiven” debts! What can we take from Cuba? Sugar. From Libya , of course, under Gaddafi: oil and gas. Vietnam - fruits, rice (gas and oil are also available there), Iraq and Syria - oil and gas. This should have been done before the coups and revolutions. Almost all debtors have what, as it were, our economy and currency are tied. Where were all the “outstanding” collectors, what were they doing? Verbalism and the theft of Russia??? GDP has not been in power for a year, not two. Is he blind, deaf? Why was it necessary to pour billions into Ukraine in the first place? that moment? What was not clear is that at that moment it was like putting out a fire with gasoline. The GDP is surrounded by a thieving, incompetent society. That’s all the problems.
Andrey71

+8

17 November 2015 11: 39

I believe that the key word is guarantees! Under what guarantees will we wait to pay off the debt??? If we assume under the guarantee that dill cannot sneeze without coordinating this sneeze with the Russian Federation, then this one thing can wait, but if under the guarantee that if dill cannot pay next year, Euromattresses with the IMF will pay for them, then this is a completely different situation not in our favor! After reading all the comments to the article, I came across suggestions to think about Crimea and Donbass, that they could turn off the switch to Crimea or go to war in Donbass. Let’s say they gave guarantees for the return of money from Euromattresses with the IMF if dill cannot return them on its own. What prevents dill from turning off the switch in Crimea or starting hostilities in the Donbass? NOTHING!!! Everyone knows very well that the Euromattresses with the IMF are covering up dill; the IMF is even ready to rewrite its own charter under dill, despite the risks that conflict situations may arise with other countries due to a refusal of a loan for the same reasons as in dill. This summer, speaking at one of the many forums, GDP made an ideal proposal to the IMF in my opinion, I won’t say it verbatim, but the gist was the following: if the IMF is so worried about the dill debt, then let it pay this debt from its funds and then deal with the dill itself. I will say again that in my opinion it is an ideal offer. But there was no reaction to it from the IMF.

If we consider the GDP proposal to stretch out debt repayments like a black sheep, even a tuft of wool (a little at a time, but still return the money), then it will not add to the image of our country, and the GDP rating may plummet downwards, the people will not understand.

But I still suggest waiting for the keyword guarantee (what guarantees we agree to)

On my own behalf, I’ll say that I’m pretty tired of these concessions to our “brothers”, whether on gas or on all other issues, and they are not our brothers. Whoever wanted to be brothers with us, so they went for it (Crimea, Donbass) and everyone else lives in their own dill go to the polls, Klitschko was elected for a second term as mayor and are enjoying life. And expecting that dill will thank us for all our discounts is simply stupid!!! Once again they will shit on our outstretched hand and continue to accumulate waste for next time
Turkestan

-6

17 November 2015 11: 46

Ukraine offered the Russian Federation, like other creditors, a return of the amount 20% less and several years after the completion of the IMF financing program.

Offers The President of Russia will not receive any money at all this year, but next year he will receive a billion (dollars), in 2017 - another billion, and in 2018 - another billion."

President Putin PROPOSED How ELEGANTLY return ALL money to Russia without loss with a guarantee SPONSORS Ukraine.

SMART
Aleksiy

0

17 November 2015 11: 47

It is worth remembering only one word - CRIMEA. Ukraine will not pay off any debts, because Crimea, but will put them under guarantees because Crimea. The junta is killing Russian Ukrainians in Donbass, and the reaction of the Russian authorities: today there were... sorties in Syria... All this talk about delays is more likely for internal use and nothing more. The loser will pay for everything. Of course this is an Obama company.
Stepan stepanovich

+4

17 November 2015 11: 53

That's it, forget it! These three lards are missing!
Nobody will give anything away!

Emveefs and other “partners” have already substantiated this.
In December they will spit in your face and sign you up. The question is closed.

But the image suffers from spitting on the face.
So they are trying to dodge: “if you please, we will postpone it not for a year, but for three”!
Although they know that debt repayment is only possible in the following format:
“Russia will be allowed to repay the Ukrainian debt to itself.”
Not for free, of course, but for good interest.
Alternatively:
They hope that in three years no one will remember about the three lard debt.
Serdyukov

-5

17 November 2015 11: 54

The stupid slinging of mud at Bandera’s followers (and with them normal Ukrainians) by bought bloggers only brings harm to Russia. Normal Ukrainians (who still exist), reading this verbal diarrhea of the “writers” hired by the GDP, are even more confirmed in the opinion that Russia really is the enemy.
I am personally ashamed of such ugly coverage of events in Ukraine by “supposedly patriots”. This is why many Russian Ukrainians went to fight for Bandera’s supporters, what is happening in the Russian Federation.
“It’s better to be friends with the nationalists; they haven’t managed to steal anything yet. And in Russia, the entire elite are friends of Yanukovych,” so one Russian-Ukrainian told me.
1. rol19
  
  0
  
  17 November 2015 11: 59
  
  Well, if you look at it from the perspective of Russia and the Russians? What’s the difference?
2. Stanislas
  
  0
  
  17 November 2015 12: 04
  
  Quote: Serdyukov
  Stupid slinging of mud at Bandera’s followers (and with them normal Ukrainians)
  I go to VO, but it’s as if I’m being transferred to Censor. How to disable redirection to another site?
3. Victor-M
  
  0
  
  17 November 2015 12: 05
  
  Quote: Serdyukov
  I am personally ashamed of such ugly coverage of events in Ukraine by “supposedly patriots”.
  
  Are you by any chance the brother of Liya Akhedzhakova?
  “It’s better to be friends with the nationalists; they haven’t managed to steal anything yet.
  
  Yeah, they’re still just killing, and then they’ll start taking away the ownerless, and that’s not theft.
  And in Russia, the entire elite are friends of Yanukovych,” one Russian-Ukrainian told me.
  
  Living in Canada?
4. Dry_T-50
  
  0
  
  17 November 2015 16: 15
  
  Quote: Serdyukov
  The stupid slinging of mud at Bandera’s followers (and with them normal Ukrainians) by bought bloggers only brings harm to Russia. Normal Ukrainians (who still exist), reading this verbal diarrhea of the “writers” hired by the GDP, are even more confirmed in the opinion that Russia really is the enemy.
  
  The worst enemy of all normal Ukrainians are those who de-stabilize Russia, depriving the last adequate remaining hopes for support. That is, people like you and not only
  Quote: Serdyukov
  I am personally ashamed of such ugly coverage of events in Ukraine by “supposedly patriots”. This is why many Russian Ukrainians went to fight for Bandera’s supporters, what is happening in the Russian Federation.
  
  Akhedzhak!
  P.S. We also don’t forget Churchill’s words about the people who chose shame
  P.P.S.A, you are, after all, a provocateur. I’ll go and report to the moderator
rol19

+2

17 November 2015 12: 06

I'm sick of the news about Syria. Well, they’re bombing and why talk about it for half an hour? Has Assad won a LOT there?
fycom

+4

17 November 2015 12: 13

Augustus Octavian did not reason “this is better than zero.” The legions quickly reached the “debtors” of the Empire, and most often the “debtors” lost their independence as “pennies” for being late :0 You can forgive to a certain extent. Otherwise, with such logic “we are good” we “interrogate” maniacs and murderers, which is a trifle. I understand the point of keeping “Western friends” from defaulting on Ukraine, but I didn’t see our profit in this matter. Maybe the state will restructure all my payments - well, stretch them out over three years. I want an apartment, but the down payment will be deferred for five years! Well, won’t they forgive me? I’m as cute as Ukraine, and not just a “brother”, but a “native”.
Yes I am Russian

+1

17 November 2015 12: 14

The Ukrainian default has already taken place. All that remains is to announce it.
If the USA or the IMF agree to Putin’s proposal (which I doubt), they will announce it a little later. but at the same time we will have guarantees that our money will be returned to us from the West, where they will get the hell out of it.
But so far, the West has not responded to Putin’s proposal, which means Ukraine will face a default at the end of the year.
the second option is worse for both Russia and Donbass. It won't get any worse for Ukraine, because it couldn't get any worse.
Nasty

+3

17 November 2015 12: 28

The West does not care about all our agreements and hopes and guarantees. Why did you have to yell at the whole race on December 25th and wow... They would have leaked it quietly and no one would have known. Or threatening to default on something in Crimea. Why did you have to yell?
1. Serdyukov
  
  +1
  
  17 November 2015 12: 33
  
  Don't worry. Now this next joint will be turned into the “Great Victory of Russia.” :)
  1. Dry_T-50
    
    +1
    
    17 November 2015 16: 02
    
    Quote: Serdyukov
    Don't worry. Now this next joint will be turned into the “Great Victory of Russia.” :)
    
    Did you create a provocative nickname on purpose?
xomaNN

+2

17 November 2015 12: 40

From a political background. Olympus perhaps knows better

But only the current proposal for 3 billion debt, if the installment plan for three years (i.e., actually a loan) does not stipulate a percentage for the use of money for these years? Then this is a repetition of the “gift” without penalty to the Franco-eccentric with the letter O. for the euro-barges not delivered
Dry_T-50

+1

17 November 2015 12: 44

Quote: from article
And if someone does not like it, then, together with one of our marshals, they can unanimously "turn their backs to Putin" (we do not know how he will survive it) and go in the opposite direction. To the west. And we sincerely wish you good luck and success.

What kind of marshal? I'm off topic
Volzhanin

+1

17 November 2015 12: 47

Quote: Gardamir
Everybody knows. that the president is great in international affairs. Only he, like that hut, turned his back on Russia. Here are just the latest deeds of the Kremlin (and therefore the president) the extension of retirement, paid Russian roads, so far for heavy trucks, but the main thing is to start. And the list when the inhabitants of Russia is sheared can be continued, but restructured. for some reason partners. How so?

This is exactly what E.A. is talking about. Fedorov

https://youtu.be/CD0iSs3wvBw
https://youtu.be/iztP30s3EME
https://youtu.be/B-anCiji9Gg
Dry_T-50

0

17 November 2015 12: 54

If it were up to me, I would ban all the hysterics towards the nuclear mother. Topvar, in general, the media or what?
Otherwise we’ll soon end up with the censor, or worse
1. The comment was deleted.
2. The comment was deleted.
3. The comment was deleted.
kotyara

-2

17 November 2015 13: 14

In my understanding, this is an attempt to shift the burden of debt from Ukraine to the authors of the Maidan!
raid14

+6

17 November 2015 13: 24

Our government is good only for foreign debtors; we can tear three skins off our citizens. How many debts has Russia forgiven and written off to different countries out of the kindness of its heart?
For those who are not in the know, new amendments have been adopted regarding the collection of debts from Russian citizens.
The new instructions have already entered into force and stipulate that if a citizen’s debt to the budget does not exceed 25 thousand rubles, then it must be repaid by the employer or another person transferring payments - for example, pensions or scholarships - in favor of the debtor. Repayment will be made from these payments themselves.
In addition, other rules for collecting debts from the population have been tightened. So, for example, now, if a debt exceeds 3 thousand rubles, the tax inspector himself is obliged to contact the FSSP with a demand to seize the debtor’s property, and if the threshold of 10 thousand is exceeded, to ask to prohibit the citizen from leaving the country. If we are talking about a debt exceeding 50 thousand rubles, then the tax authorities need to organize raids to seize the property of the defaulter.
http://www.50plus.ru/be_in_the_plus/economic/24/4519.xml
DobryAAH

+4

17 November 2015 13: 31

Even if this is just a restructuring, it turns out that we are fueling the fighting in the Donbass. I was against this loan to Yanukovych, now I am against the restructuring. Let them fuss and change the IMF rules. Okay, the giraffe is big...
Abrekkos

+6

17 November 2015 13: 41

My comment disappeared somewhere. I repeat...:
People are not fools, they have no time to delve into it (they have work, family, loans, etc.), you can fool them once or twice, but they will lose faith no matter how much you fool them. No matter how long the rope of deception winds, it will all end.
Dealing with loans initially with a dash!

To begin with, the money in 2013 was given not to Ukraine and not to Yanukovych, but to Gazprom headed by Mr. Miller. He leaked in the mid-2000s.
He started selling gas on a take-or-pay basis. but ... what should a buyer do when he doesn't need so much gas and should buy? It is correct to throw it on the stock exchange.
What happens when a lot is thrown away? - prices are falling. Cheap gas appeared.
Ukrainians began to shout - drop the price to "market". This is certainly a stretch. the price was cheap out of season and they always wanted. But they have gas storage facilities in which they could collect gas when it is cheap and raise it when it is different. But the storage facilities were occupied by Gazprom for transit. Gazprom did not want to negotiate, but wanted to hold ukrov by the throat to pay.

How did the strategy end? From 2008 to 2013, Gazprom's capitalization fell from $ 369 billion to $ 83. And Mr. Miller came up with the slogan - I will bring the capitalization to $ 1000 billion! Compare 83 and 1000! Who leaked? Nobody invested in a poorly managed and corrupt enterprise, albeit with a "national treasure".

In 2013, Gazprom didn’t do very well. Ukrov had worse money to pay for gas.

How to help Gazprom? Give money from the state budget! So they gave a loan to Ukraine, so that they paid them to Gazprom. Money was given not to Ukraine but to Gazprom. This was directly stipulated when issuing a loan. Here, too, merged (us).

The money was given to "friend" Yanukovych. And he did not fulfill his obligations. I paid a little and the rest of the cases is unknown where. Promising does not mean getting married. We have such friends ... And we give them. And they throw it. The same Lukashenka not only did not support the anti-sanctions, but also arranged supplies of Belarusian oysters, etc. But why not give it? NOT YOUR OWN STATE. And by the state, by the way, it is public and taken from the people.
Again leaked.

Given at 5%, although the rate on similar borrowings in Ukraine was more than 10%. This allowed the deal to be recognized as political. And ... do not accept the warranty on it!
Again leaked.

Then Yanukovych in the ass. We could not calculate it? Yes, and Yanukovych, what money would appear? Or the desire to pay the bills?
Again leaked.
Yanukovych sheltered.

Oh yes, this is the "sovereign national debt" guaranteed, must pay. But promising in Europe does not mean getting married either.
Again leaked.

A rabbit came and said: This is a bribe to Yanukovych. He out of 3 one yard paid for gas.
We are the type of noble 1 yard admit we are ready to give. And where the rest he does not know. Take them away from Yanukovych. You can not? Give us Yanukovych, we will take it ourselves and give it to you. I regularly appeared in Novorossiya and heard the “kind speeches” with my own ears.
Again we leaked.

We have taken a fundamental position. We won’t go to negotiations! Pay!
Ukrainians agreed with creditors and in the agreement were forced to indicate that they could not give better conditions to anyone. So they can’t pay us any guarantees do not give. And the guarantors cannot.

Now what? Well, they will give guarantees. So anyway, they won’t pay. They say that it was a bribe, that there are obligations to other creditors, they say we will pay, but subject to write-offs and installments as others.
In the best case, they will come up with schemes in which we write off but save face.
Why pay if we merge again?

So you don’t need to talk about Tricky Plans or that there’s nowhere to go.

And the problem is that they lie to us. And this is the main merger of power. Many begin to understand ...
And annoying deception and not merging.
tacet

+1

17 November 2015 14: 06

I would like to add to the author's words
There is another layer to this sentence, namely:
In the text of the restructuring agreement proposed by Kiev there is a clause according to which none of the creditors has the right to receive better conditions than all the others. This is a fairly standard clause for such agreements, and it was thanks to it that the Franklin Templeton fund pulled veins from Argentina for several years after the 2001 default, and then completely provoked a second default in this country.
If one of the lenders receives better conditions for restructuring than all the others, then all the others may automatically require similar preferences.
That is, if the United States agrees to Putin’s kind offer, then:
1) The United States will no longer have to guarantee 3 billion of Russian debt, but all 18,5 billion dollars of debt being restructured;
2) payment of the debt (all 18,5 lard) will have to take place not from 2019 to 2025, but from 2016 to 2018.
So I wonder if the US will agree to this?
P.S. I do not pretend to have figured out the whole idea behind this GDPR proposal.)))
Abrekkos

+2

17 November 2015 14: 13

Quote: andj61
Everything is correct, except for a small "but":
The last restructuring of Ukraine’s debt was with respect to COMMERCIAL debts of COMMERCIAL lenders. The debt of Ukraine to Russia is a state debt, and the debt of one state to another.
Therefore, linking the terms of the restructuring of commercial debts with this debt is not correct. Unless, of course, you take the position of Yatsenyuk, who declared that Ukraine’s debt to Russia is not state, but there is a commercial debt ...

The point is that:

1) no one recognized our 3 billion as a state debt.

2) In addition, as far as I understand, the agreement refers to all debts of a certain period and not just commercial ones. More precisely, about commercial ones, it says that the conditions must be exactly the same as stipulated in the agreement (in terms of timing and volume of write-off). And about all the others it is said that only NPV should not be higher.

3) And besides, our debt is generally spoken of as not a loan, but a bribe. So “due to newly discovered circumstances” (like the rabid rabbit turned out to be right) in a year, the other guarantors may not pay us like radishes anyway. How they seized accounts from Iran, and from us too...
Or they will say that we will pay under the condition of a fair trial of the plunderers of this loan (Yanukovych) in Ukraine. If you don’t want justice, you are with them for one thing. So we won't pay you.

Or whatever else they come up with.
akm8226

-3

17 November 2015 14: 42

I completely agree with the author! I wrote the same thing. Here is a copy of my post on this topic.)))

"In short, this is the situation.
Russia agrees to defer the crests' debt for three years, but! with the condition that the debt for crests, under a new contract, will be paid either:
a) USA
b) Europe
d) Any other organization

It’s a no brainer that the crests themselves won’t pay a pittance. This means that the GDP extracted the same money from their patrons, presenting them with a fait accompli - either a default or you know what.)))
And you still think that our GDP is not number one in the world?

Update from 2015-11-16 22:53:04

Well, well, well, serpent!! No, just read what this GDP says!!! I'm just freaking out!

“Since our partners are confident that the creditworthiness of the Ukrainian state will grow and we have no reason to doubt that we will receive even three billion next year, our partners have no fears about providing a guarantee for this loan,” the head of state added.

A-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a!!!!)))))))))

Update from 2015-11-16 22:56:10

No, he took me by the balls!! Since you, pigeons, say that the crests will grow and bloom, then you know that you have nothing to fear for your loot and you can, with a pure soul, subsequently demand your loot from the crests, having first returned the debt to us for them. )))))
Or are you 3,14 worried about the future prosperity of dill?

Learn, Kisa, how to present it!!

Update from 2015-11-16 22:56:49

And the hell out of the GDP!
Ekzarh

+4

17 November 2015 14: 43

1) Regarding the uselessness of courts.
Appeal to international arbitration blocks all new IMF loans to Ukraine.
The IMF can ignore this only by using its “regressive right.”
This would be a very strong blow to the reputation of the IMF and it is unlikely that they would decide to do this.
And since the IMF needs to prevent Ukraine from defaulting, if we take a hard line,
they could well agree to a targeted loan to pay off the debt to Russia.

2) Regarding the fact that Ukraine has no money.
They spend huge amounts of money on maintaining the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the National Guard.
The deferment of debts will be used for additional purchases of ammunition,
which will then be used to fire at Donbass.
For Yatsenyuk, who would stand for a day and hold out for a night
transferring 2/3 of the payment to subsequent years is an even greater gift,
than a partial write-off!!!
Oprychnik

-2

17 November 2015 15: 06

I read the comments. Truly, the authors of the article are right, 50% are kindergarten... “Don’t take my toys and don’t pee in my potty.”)))
Serdyukov

+2

17 November 2015 15: 13

“Putin took another step that no one expected from him. Smart and tough in content. And God grant that he succeeds.” - the author writes.
He doesn’t need to “succeed.” Everything that he “succeeds” (reforms of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, education, medicine, government, economics, the Federal Penitentiary Service, the media, Ukraine) turns into failures. :(
It's better to let things stay this way...
Neophyte

+1

17 November 2015 15: 42

Calculate all Ukraine's debts, add gas to storage and draw up a recognition agreement
DPR and LPR independent states?
Gormenghast

+2

17 November 2015 15: 54

There is actually a reason for yelling.

Precisely because degenerates abused Russia in every possible way.
They arbitrarily equated public debt with commercial debt. No matter what the miniature-loving IMF says, this will not make the debt commercial.
They made an ultimatum to demand a delusional restructuring on terms that are inapplicable to the debt.
They threatened not to repay at all, under the slogan “we, the DEBTORS, decided for the CREDITOR.”

This is all slap in the face. Maybe give Crimea to them?

We will accept; we will endure, but we are not obligated to rejoice.
Turkir

0

17 November 2015 15: 56

I gave the article a plus.
In confirmation of the position stated in this article, a link to the article - Kiev said it had not received any debt proposals from Russia
publication in AiF.
Deputy Minister of Finance of Ukraine Artem Shevalev said that Kyiv has not yet received proposals from Moscow to restructure the Russian loan, RIA Novosti reports.
“Unfortunately, we have not received any statements from the Russian Ministry of Finance, and in particular from Russia,” Shevalev said.

In his own words, Putin’s proposal was made by the IMF (an offer to act as a guarantor). The IMF... is still scratching its head (to become or not to become... a guarantor, of this page No. 404)
--------
Conclusion - Kyiv does not want to pay ANYTHING at all and therefore it needs a war in Donbass.
This is my understanding of the current situation today. Maybe I'm wrong, time will tell.
1. Turkir
  
  0
  
  17 November 2015 16: 30
  
  I forgot to write that the very “Svidomo” Artyom Shevelev did not understand that Putin's offer is made to the International Monetary Fund, not to Ukraine.
  Let Shevelev explain himself to Censor, they will understand him.
Abrekkos

+3

17 November 2015 16: 05

Quote: akm8226
I completely agree with the author! I wrote the same thing. Here is a copy of my post on this topic.)))
"In short, this is the situation.
Russia agrees to defer the crests' debt for three years, but! with the condition that the debt for crests, under a new contract, will be paid either:
a) USA b) Europe d) Any other organization

It’s a no brainer that the crests themselves won’t pay a pittance. This means that the GDP extracted the same money from their patrons, presenting them with a fait accompli - either a default or you know what.)))
And you still think that our GDP is not number one in the world?

Update from 2015-11-16 22:53:04

Well, well, well, serpent!! No, just read what this GDP says!!! I'm just freaking out!

“Since our partners are confident that the creditworthiness of the Ukrainian state will grow and we have no reason to doubt that we will receive even three billion next year, our partners have no fears about providing a guarantee for this loan,” the head of state added.

A-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a!!!!)))))))))

Update from 2015-11-16 22:56:10

No, he took me by the balls!! Since you, pigeons, say that the crests will grow and bloom, then you know that you have nothing to fear for your loot and you can, with a pure soul, subsequently demand your loot from the crests, having first returned the debt to us for them. )))))
Or are you 3,14 worried about the future prosperity of dill?
Learn, Kisa, how to present it!!
Update from 2015-11-16 22:56:49
And the hell out of the GDP!

Dear, you are embellishing, if not distorting.

Firstly, no one promised Putin anything. I have not heard any statements about guarantees from the guarantors (EU, US, IMF). There aren't even words. I'm not even talking about the documents, much less what will be written in them.

So Putin hasn’t achieved anything yet. And no one needs to “turn around.”

Putin simply said:

I now agree to debt restructuring (I’m backing down), but on these conditions. And no one really answered him anything concrete.

What is the victory here? Who was pinned by who? I can also say that I now agree that Obama cleans my shoes in the morning. And what? Did I defeat Obama?

Putin was simply pressed at the Summit. He couldn’t stick his line any further and he was forced to say something.

Secondly, there is no need for them to “turn away” from Putin.

They are charging us $50 billion for Yukos. They seize our property and they don’t care what your “number one in the world” thinks and says about it.

And they also recognize Ukraine’s claims regarding the property we nationalized in Crimea and give us several more tens or hundreds of billions of dollars in claims.

And who will be bankrupt then? Us or Ukraine?

International law is in their hands and they have dozens of satellite countries that agree with them in everything. Remember the vote on Crimea at the UN.

Our allies are only deceiving us. The same Lukashenkos, Karimovs, etc.

The Ukrainian economy, with their money, has already come out of recession. But ours is not. And it is not known when it will be released.

So there is no need to wishful thinking.
Vladislav 73

+5

17 November 2015 16: 51

There’s really no need to yell. It’s no use, they won’t ask us anyway... How much over the years they have puffed up, puffed out their cheeks - That’s it! There will be no discounts on gas! There will be no preferences! Until the debts are paid off, you give them money, not gas! And then.. .well, everyone remembers everything. Disgusting. Disgusting and disgusting! This, of course, is my personal opinion, which neither the powers that be nor the authors of this article care about.
Simple russian

+2

17 November 2015 16: 53

The Ukrofashists had no intention of repaying their debt to Russia; the egg-headed rabbit was shouting about this at all crossroads. Ukraine lies under the US, the US is waging a war against Russia, why give them money? Default is not a problem for them; they will not be cut off from loans (by the way, like Russia). The IMF also lies under the United States and shouts at all crossroads that Russia has gone to hell, it will lend to Banderlogs under any circumstances. Now Ukraine is clearly not a friend of Russia, but Putin considers them a brotherly people. I think that the debt will not be returned to us, either in whole or in parts, at least as long as the United States rules everywhere.
The comment was deleted.
igorra

-5

17 November 2015 16: 59

What srach, however, climbed into the VO. All these sick slogans, give money to the people already tired. Have you tried to work? Shouting all the heroes from the couch, and go weak and pass the official for theft? Everyone sees the mansions, expensive cars and silence, but here on the Internet everyone is brave, they would sit and be silent in a rag or for fun try to pick up some old debt from a friend, neighbor, and not necessarily money. Regarding the fare, someone suggest a better solution and then hite the existing one, otherwise we won’t pay a point, but how else? More and more disappointed in the comments on VO, sensible condemn, but uriapatriotic praise. I missed the survey, maybe we need to set a limit on cap-and-share and hanging-slogan slogans, maybe it's time to grow up.
1. Massik
  
  +2
  
  17 November 2015 19: 12
  
  Quote: igorra
  Have you tried to work? Are all the heroes screaming from the sofa, but going and handing over an official for theft is weak? Everyone sees mansions, expensive cars and silence, but here on the Internet everyone is brave, they would sit and remain silent in a rag, or for fun, try to collect some old debt from a friend, neighbor, and not necessarily monetary.
  Go and turn yourself in, set an example, so to speak, in another 3 years you’ll be imprisoned for libel. Why are you sitting on your butt in front of the monitor?
okroshka79

-6

17 November 2015 17: 03

I fully support the point of the article. With one statement, Putin killed at least six (!) birds with one stone: 1). He demonstrated that Russia is not at all a country of bloodthirsty quilted jackets, but a completely civilized and humane state. 2). I was concerned about Crimea, DPR and LPR, since in the event of Ukraine’s default, in today’s conditions, they will be left, at a minimum, without electricity and much more, which Donbass, at the very least, still has from Ukraine. 3). He placed the solvency of Ukraine on their sponsors in the West. 4). I checked “at F No. 20” the genuine concern of the Western patrons of Ukraine. 5). If the West agrees, it gives Russia a real chance to get its money back, because bringing them back from Ukraine is like milking a goat. 6). He not only saved his face, but also gave the West a chance to save its face in front of the financial world, and this is especially important for us now in the light of the fight against global terrorism in order to create a world coalition.
The comment was deleted.
The comment was deleted.
Achilles

+6

17 November 2015 17: 37

Good logic.
Can I not pay for the loans, come back in 5 years and I’ll pay you for the mortgage/car.
Or you can not pay for utilities and just try to tell me something, I will raise a panic and demand that the prices for GAS, light and heating be reduced and nothing, I won’t pay you that either.
And I will also shit on your building manager under the door and throw mud at you.

Looks like someone got some good kickbacks and they don’t really want to stir up this hive
msm

+1

17 November 2015 17: 40

There's no need to yell.
Yes, you need to go through garbage dumps and collect scraps. And to make it more delicious to eat them, look at our glamor magazines... Oink!
Achilles

+1

17 November 2015 17: 42

In the meantime, Silupyanov plans to borrow several lard from foreign markets, beauty.
LINKor55

+4

17 November 2015 17: 43

Author, clear your brains, at least drink a glass of vodka or something. The West needs this delay more than we do, because... not all objects of Ukrainian industry and resources are cut together. How to take from citizens - so with interest, and how to take dill (so that they go bankrupt) which everyone is really waiting for - so we (for some reason) accepted the offer from the American president and the European pope. He (Putin) did not heed the warnings in the winter and spring of 2013-2014. about the need to suspend the loan. But no, they say, I promised... Then I was embarrassed to demand it back in connection with the hostilities (there is a condition that if there is a risk, all the money is for the barrel), but now we have agreed again. Comrade President didn’t leak anyone, but I’m offended. And the reputational losses are enormous. I can imagine how Yatsenyukh dances, saying “I told you that they will have to negotiate with us,” the USA and Europe. What's the point of this favor for them, huh? Author?
1. LINKor55
  
  -1
  
  17 November 2015 18: 17
  
  Add:
  “In short, it became clear to everyone that the head of the IMF, Christine Lagarde, cannot be envied on the issue with Ukraine. Moreover, she has not yet received the promised incentive prize in the form of the privatization of Centerenergo by the French company Gas de France, which is supposedly close to her in spirit.
  
  And then Vladimir Putin resolved the situation. Well, how he sorted it out... Not completely, but he made an offer that the IMF is unlikely to be able to refuse. Americans and Europeans (more likely Americans) may not be enthusiastic. But Lagarde has clearly had a stone lifted from her soul..."
  http://inosmi.ru/sngbaltia/20151117/231428750.html
  Putin put Lagarde in a comfortable position (“Versii.com”, Ukraine)
Old warrior

+2

17 November 2015 17: 54

So what's the problem? Give up the entire Left Bank of the Dnieper as compensation, pay for the restoration of national economies in the affected regions and sleep peacefully... preferably an eternal sleep.
Vasilić

+6

17 November 2015 17: 57

Justifying the installment plan of Ukraine's debt by saying that Russia does not want it to go bankrupt is simply criminal. How can we give any discounts, deferments, etc. to a country that has adopted a military doctrine in which it has identified Russia as the enemy? If the entire political, economic and financial potential of the country is directed against us? How can we allow Ukraine to earn money from Russia through discounts on gas, installment loans, if the top political leadership of Ukraine is simply jumping out of its pants and throwing mud at us? Yes, money is important for the country’s economy, but is the country’s dignity less important?
Egor123

-2

17 November 2015 18: 04

Well, let's hope that everything will return by 2018!
stapler 2

+2

17 November 2015 18: 37

Quote: USSR 1971
Let the censor write anything

Yes, they’re making great fun there right now, at our entire leadership and at us as well, but how they shouted, how they shouted... Siluanov, Lavrov and where is it all. their Ukrainian partners are happy, what guarantees - who will give them,
fools in the west won’t give a spear either this year or in the next years
They’ll just drag out the topic, but they could have at least created pressure on how difficult it is for the militias in Donbass to fight when you see how your command is dumping you...
MMX

+3

17 November 2015 18: 54

Wow, what a HPP! And only yesterday it became clear that Ukraine will not be able to give back the money in December of this year. And before that, we were firmly convinced and repeated almost every day: “No restructuring, money for the barrel on time!!!”... It’s true that Yatsenyuk said that “either restructuring or nothing.”
Now it turns out that Senya was right.
And now I read everywhere about how the cunning Putin outplayed Obama and Co...
Axon

0

17 November 2015 19: 05

It’s simple, there’s a 3-year delay until the completion of the construction of the bridge to Crimea and the Northern Gas Flow.
miroag

+2

17 November 2015 19: 18

But for me, the lifting of sanctions should have been included in the condition. It’s understandable - the debt is irrevocable, but political banter is fun, but also expensive. Even if Europe suffers from sanctions more than Russia, then Russia still bears the losses. Why not write off this debt as sanctions are lifted? and not for the sake of a political show.
Shpagolom

+1

17 November 2015 19: 42

2017 The route is not far from Kyiv. Place of hidden deployment of one of the Ukrainian DRGs
- Taras!
- A?
- Wake up. Transport with yamas!
- Come on, give me the binoculars... Exactly! They come warm into our hands. Is everything in place? Are all special equipment in combat readiness?
- You offend me, commander, of course!
- Great. When they stop at a gas station, we work. We work according to the old scheme - we surround the transport, three in front, two in back, the rest on the sides. We do everything quickly and clearly. Went!
………………
- Hello, hello, dear guests! Mineral water is cold! Pies with potatoes and cabbage! Real homemade salsa! Crispy barrel cucumbers! Folk dances and chants for an additional fee!
- Thank you, thank you! God bless you! Eat healthy! Be healthy, live richly! Come to us again! Glory to Russia! Glory to Putin!
- That's it, we left.
- And how many?
- Normal, Taras. They worked well. Vata has twenty with cabbage, ten with potatoes, a kilo of cucumbers and three vodka. And we have ten hundredths, three five hundredths, one thousandth and one hundred green. The green ones were cut down at the dances; one of them only had currency with him.
- Well done. I express my gratitude to the entire DRG.
- Glory to Ukraine!
- Glory to heroes. But don't relax! In the evening another bus with tourists will pass by. If we work properly again, we’ll buy a potbelly stove for the squad and spend the winter in a warm place. Nothing... I will deprive these Colorados of money until my very last pie. They will also answer for me for Crimea.
And the road sales group "Galicia" skillfully disappeared into the forest belt, quietly clinking cans of pickled cucumbers.
Petr7

-1

17 November 2015 20: 28

Well done author.
and as for anonymous comments, it’s high time to do it like in China - only those who are fully registered and have both a First and Last Name can comment (in China, Nicky has been banned for a year now, and this does not include the full transfer of registered data). And by the way, there is NO violation of freedom of speech - say whatever you want, but here’s the problem, responsibility - you broke the law - get punished. Russia also adopted a similar law on liability, but I haven’t heard of it being applied
pilot bin-bom

+4

17 November 2015 20: 38

On the “Russian Spring” website, forum users are simply shocked by Russia’s decision to forgive the debt to Ukraine, which is killing Russian speakers in the Donbass. I won’t cite statements - anyone who wants to read them can read them themselves. However, the Belarusian sites are also not happy - they took away the gas pipe for a loan of $ 2,5 billion, and forgave the Ukrainians and the loan, and gas and electricity and coal - at a discount.
Now they say we will transfer $1 billion a year. And in a year they’ll come up with something else, but the crests still won’t give the money.
onix757

+5

17 November 2015 20: 46

People are smart, they understand that zero, no matter what you do with it arithmetically, will remain zero. But this is a bit difficult to understand, apparently. Of course, give you tank columns marching from Kyiv to Calais, victory reports and all that. For some reason, you really want this very final and irrevocable default of Ukraine.

You have one song for everything. Aren’t you here, approved people, just recently shouting about how our government is doing the right thing when it almost gave an ultimatum to pay off the debt.
Straight Tukhachevskys, neither give nor take. Cut off the gas, arrange a default...
Nobody claims to be the Tukhachevskys, but when they try to convince the patriotic people that they are white and black and vice versa, then once again you are convinced of the unscrupulousness and corruption of the authorities.
Thank God that God does not give horns to carrion cows, otherwise they would definitely have stopped them. And they defaulted. You, judging by the statements of the Ukrainian authorities about the entire people, do not understand too much, you don’t even want to voice it.

But the power gave horns to paid weathervanes. You come home from work and they’ve already written a poem here.
Neophyte

+1

17 November 2015 20: 52

Either Ukraine will refuse, or the “guarantors” will understand that impoverished Ukraine is setting them up?
Kvadrofon

-2

17 November 2015 21: 07

And I agree with the author. I believe that, in the current trend of redrawing all international laws and obligations, our president has clearly placed the sides: the victim (borrower) and his guarantor (guarantor). Therefore, if there is at least a shred of conscience left in the states and associations supporting Ukraine, they will help pay off the debt. Otherwise, their image, already falling, will hit the bottom with a dull or loud sound.
Kemerov

+2

17 November 2015 21: 21

I didn’t understand why Ukraine was given a debt when it was already clear that it was irrevocable. Now there is this strange kindness. Perhaps everything has its time, but for now the emphasis is on Syria. So that crests don’t get in the way while serious issues are being resolved.
1. onix757
  
  0
  
  17 November 2015 21: 25
  
  Time has nothing to do with it. There is heroism for internal urapatriots and there is a reality in which the West dictates terms to our supposedly heroic leaders.
Kemerov

0

17 November 2015 21: 32

Quote: onix757
Time has nothing to do with it. There is heroism for internal urapatriots and there is a reality in which the West dictates terms to our supposedly heroic leaders.

And then there are the Serdyukovs (Len. Region) and, unfortunately, too many like them.
1. onix757
  
  +3
  
  17 November 2015 21: 35
  
  Serdyukov is an unpleasant particularity. Our entire vertical is built on the principle of friend or foe, in which PR replaces real action.
iouris

+1

17 November 2015 21: 57

“Ukraine” is not a state, but a project to siphon resources from the Russian Federation. The Kyiv “cathedral” pro-Washington government body simply does not have such a body as a “giving back”. This country can only pay with itself. There's a big game going on. Players are bluffing.
Kemerov

+2

17 November 2015 21: 58

There should be even more PR. pin do sy in every stupid movie, even science fiction, they glorify their pin do sy. A friend of mine’s son became a world champion in the youth team, but no one knows about it except her. It should not be.
1. DobryAAH
  
  0
  
  18 November 2015 14: 07
  
  People will see without PR, when a person tries for them, they will feel it in their hearts.
2. DobryAAH
  
  0
  
  18 November 2015 14: 07
  
  People will see without PR, when a person tries for them, they will feel it in their hearts.
NordUral

0

17 November 2015 22: 47

Guys, don't overdo it. Time will tell how brilliant this proposal was.
AleBors

-2

17 November 2015 22: 56

Well, in general... That's right. Although I am not a genius, I completely agree with the authors. Shake your hand.
Olkass

0

17 November 2015 23: 01

Quote: USSR 1971
... And the people are really stuck with the desire for the Square to default. What will this give us other than one more hemorrhoid?

This is for a popular educational program, for starters: http://www.rbc.ru/economics/17/11/2015/564a21d89a7947d5cae37940
So after all, all these 3 lard, gas on debt, etc. are investments, so to speak, in future territories. And why do we need complete poverty with a collapsed economy? Take the same GTS. How long will they last (gas compressor stations, underground gas storage facilities, pipelines) if they suddenly stop being used, in the sense of moving gas through them? And how much money will be needed to restore them, if anything. There are specialists, enlighten the sofa people.
The border on the western direction, at least along the Dnieper, will be different, but the southern one will depend on the map. But if Transnistria sighs, don’t go to grandma.
In general, Westerners are no strangers to washing their underpants and bow to the master when he has their wives and daughters. Just remember why Moses dragged his forty years through the desert. Well, nothing can help with this, not even Moses.
Kemerov

0

17 November 2015 23: 32

Quote: Olkass
3 lard, gas on credit, etc. - investments, so to speak, in future territories

Olkass, well, a very nice idea. Time will tell, I hope it is with us.
1. Olkass
  
  -1
  
  18 November 2015 00: 07
  
  Yes, this is not a thought, but a medium-term reality
2. The comment was deleted.
aerspb

+1

17 November 2015 23: 41

Quote: Nikolai S.
Sovereign obligations of Ukraine in the amount of three billion were placed on the Irish Exchange. Those. their return is, by definition, WARRANTED by England. Russia bought these obligations. If Ukraine cannot repay, then England must repay the debt and deal with its client, Ukraine itself.
What else do you need guarantees for Putin?

Where is the catch? What's wrong?

Placing obligations on the Irish Stock Exchange does not mean that England is responsible for these debts. This only means that this is not a debt to some private shop, but a sovereign debt to the state - the Russian Federation, and this is recognized by the world community, represented by Great Britain (i.e. you can’t get away with it :)
After all, if you sell certain securities on the stock exchange, then the stock exchange is not responsible if they depreciate after some time? Learn the materiel :)
ikshu

-1

18 November 2015 00: 05

In an environment of chaotic and fussy relations, Russia’s position is the most calibrated and sensible. What to do, it’s difficult to be consistent among those who are going crazy from powerlessness.
okroshka79

-4

18 November 2015 00: 30

Eck, how they downvoted! But they didn’t convince me of anything. Dear comrades, “Putin-all-weatherers”! I would also really like for Ukraine to give back these same three billion dollars within the agreed period. They wouldn’t turn out to be superfluous to us. Although the money is not that big - only about 1% of the stash in the state box. But I still propose that emotions, which I respect as a human being, be replaced with common sense. There is nothing to take from Ukraine and, therefore, Putin made a decision on the principle that at least a tuft of wool can be taken from a thin sheep. And he proposed such a combination of taking away his hard-earned money from a malicious defaulter, the brilliance of which Ostap Bender himself would envy. Putin’s proposal is simply genius - let his loyal patrons pay back the debts for Ukraine instead. And after all, they, who declare their love for Ukraine, have nowhere to go. Well, I also wanted to name the “seventh hare”, killed with one shot by Putin. Still, in Ukraine, although less than half of the citizens love Russia, this is approximately 20 million of our compatriots, who at the right time may turn out to be our allies and this cannot be neglected. It is impossible for their suffering from the criminal activities of the Ukrainian leadership to be supplemented by additional suffering from our integrity in repaying the debt.
1. LINKor55
  
  +4
  
  18 November 2015 11: 08
  
  To listen to you, Stalin had to drop gingerbread over the territory occupied by the Germans for the citizens who found themselves in the occupied territory!
  As for the downsides, there are some. I support the president (in most decisions), but I don’t like this decision. Our value of money has depreciated by 2 times, at least the official inflation is 21,9%, although in my opinion (after the store) it is three times more. But no, we destroy food at the border? Very clever". There are many expressions, such as “to walk like that”, “you can’t be a little pregnant”, etc. So it is here, beat like that, beat like that, put up with it and put up with it. Otherwise, “we are introducing symmetrical sanctions,” but what’s the point? Well, or at least before there was no need to blow bubbles about “we will demand the entire debt on time and no concessions.”
  Very unpleasant, sad and lousy at heart.
AKS-U

+4

18 November 2015 04: 43

The bills must be paid, gentlemen. If you want to be respected and welcomed. And if you can’t pay, then you’re on the hook. "Under the bunk" can be replaced by the work of videoconferencing. Having worked in Syria, the unplowed field is Banderstan. And don't hide behind people. They simply aren't there. There are outright fascists, their accomplices and those who live by the principle: I don’t know anything - my house is on the edge. Like, I don’t get involved in politics, the main thing is that the house is warm and Putin gives gas. And if you remember the Maidan anthem - “We will never be brothers,” then what kind of people are we talking about in the article.
And yet there is a way out. For the specified amount (3 lard is just the beginning), let them rent out their territory. From Kharkov to Crimea by train. This is an industrial complex, which in conditions of default costs a penny. This is what we need for Crimea. + port Odessa to supply Transnistria. Naive? No, Banderstan will not repay the debt. The States did not make a coup there to pay off its debts for poor Ukraine.
So: either Banderstan pays the bills with the territory or the VKS starts working. And there is no one to feel sorry for, make no mistake!
would

+4

18 November 2015 05: 38

The author apparently lives in some kind of his own universe where Ukraine is a simple state. It is not it that kills Russians in Donbass, it is not it that carries out the punitive operation, it is not the one that is used by the United States for the war with Russia, etc. and so on.

Can you imagine that the USSR would forgive the debts of Nazi Germany during the war? Well, while the German steel fist scorches the earth, kills and takes people into slavery, threatens the destruction of Moscow and the entire Soviet people. I mean, no, Nazi Germany is the enemy, and enemies never receive such offers. Enemies are destroyed, not supported economically.

So this proposal is wonderful evidence that the Russian government does not consider Ukraine’s current actions to be hostile. Well, just think about mass murders, neo-Nazism, Russian genocide, etc. For the Russian government, they still remain absolutely normal partners, and not enemies who need to be forced into default. Only now I have one simple question: If in Ukraine there are fraternal people (yeah) to whom everything is forgiven, then who are the Russians who have not forgiven anything?
The comment was deleted.
Lenin

0

18 November 2015 11: 31

The noise, the screaming, as if your money had not been returned. For example, since the 90s I haven’t felt that this is our people’s money. And worry about strangers and other people’s business I don’t see the point. As my newly minted capitalists said, well, what are you doing here with advice on the best way, and then it will be yours to take the helm. In general, as Vysotsky sang: The giraffe is big, he knows best." And to those who hope that Ukraine will repay the debt, I want to say: Your words, let God listen to them!!!
mamont5

+1

18 November 2015 13: 01

Quote: mrark
Quote: andj61
The debt of Ukraine to Russia is a state debt, and the debt of one state to another.

Who told you that. Ukrainian authorities at all angles scream that Russia's debt is COMMERCIAL. But the IMF has still not come to the conclusion - what a dog.

Ukrainian authorities (junta) they scream a lot of things. Are you suggesting that we believe everything?
LINKor55

+3

18 November 2015 16: 32

Quote: Lenin
The noise, the screaming, as if your money had not been returned. For example, since the 90s I haven’t felt that this is our people’s money. And worry about strangers and other people’s business I don’t see the point. As my newly minted capitalists said, well, what are you doing here with advice on the best way, and then it will be yours to take the helm. In general, as Vysotsky sang: The giraffe is big, he knows best." And to those who hope that Ukraine will repay the debt, I want to say: Your words, let God listen to them!!!

It's not about the money, it's about the principle. Let the state show such tolerance towards us too.
1. Lenin
  
  0
  
  18 November 2015 19: 48
  
  [/ Quote]
  It's not about the money, it's about the principle. Let the state show such tolerance towards us too.[/quote]
  Well, if we go by principle, then let's demand all the debts forgiven since the times of the USSR and honestly divide among the citizens of Russia who was left on the beans and who lives on a meager pension and did not liberalize the property of the USSR. This will be the principle, then the people will truly respect our entire leadership...!!!
Velesovich

+3

18 November 2015 16: 44

Guarantees? That is, just yesterday everyone was shouting about the duplicity of the West and that you can’t believe a single word they say, but today they suddenly believed in the guarantees? “The conditions for the implementation of our guarantees have not yet developed, we will closely monitor the implementation of Minsk-16, and as soon as the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine are restored in full, the guarantees will be fulfilled.” Doesn't remind you of anything?
1. Lenin
  
  +1
  
  18 November 2015 19: 54
  
  Quote: Velesovic
  Guarantees? That is, just yesterday everyone was shouting about the duplicity of the West and that you can’t believe a single word they say, but today they suddenly believed in the guarantees? “The conditions for the implementation of our guarantees have not yet developed, we will closely monitor the implementation of Minsk-16, and as soon as the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine are restored in full, the guarantees will be fulfilled.” Doesn't remind you of anything?
  
  Give me five dear. Unfortunately, politics is not mathematics and sometimes there is no logic in it, and very often in our country. That's why it's difficult to understand us...
pilot bin-bom

+1

18 November 2015 21: 27

I’m ready to bet the author $100 against his 1 ruble that the crests will not give anything away either this year or the next. And the roof won't give them anything away. Does anyone on the forum remember about the obligation not to expand NATO to the East? About guarantees for Belarus for the withdrawal of nuclear weapons? And so on down the list. About forgiveness of debts to Iraq after the second Bush war in the Gulf? The list goes on - Mistrals. But not hunting. crests will not give money - who gives it to the weak? And in a year, the crests will chop up the civilians in the Donbass - so more than Russians flew on the plane (may they rest in peace). And I’ll save the page, especially for minusers - in a year I’ll pump out the jingoistic patriots.
Kemerov

+1

18 November 2015 23: 00

Quote: Olkass
Yes, this is not a thought, but a medium-term reality

I don’t know about the average urgency, but the real reality is that Russia has once again been cheated out of money.
PWG

0

19 November 2015 00: 37

Hurray! Putin is right as always! Loud and prolonged applause can be heard, turning into a standing ovation! Everyone stand up! Exclams can be heard: glory to the CPSU! In a word - complete approval!!!
Zlyden.Zlo

0

19 November 2015 01: 17

Ukraine definitely won’t return the money, so let its owners do it for it.
uhu189

0

19 November 2015 10: 02

You know Roman, I used to read your articles with great interest, but now, unfortunately, I have to admit that they contain more and more propaganda. Perhaps your arguments that you presented will partly impress someone, but all of this is very far-fetched and does not withstand serious criticism. You understand perfectly well that the issue of debt was a very significant lever of pressure on Ukraine, and by refusing it, we are simply solving this lever, one of the few remaining. In a year, Ukraine may scrape together 1 billion, but what can happen this year? And in general, the more articles I read, the greater the feeling of schizophrenia - on the one hand, the KhPP is to bring Ukraine to default, on the other hand, we ourselves do not allow them to collapse completely and are doing everything to ensure that it remains afloat. Everything according to Trotsky - no peace, no war. About the energy supply of Crimea - in general, a convenient argument for all occasions; in a year and a half, a 110 kV cable cannot be thrown across the Kerch Strait, it is better to feed Ukraine with money, it seems more logical. I see only one argument here - that this is an element of some kind of shadow bargaining between Russia and Europe. If this is so, then yes, this explains a lot. But this has nothing to do with the content of the article and the arguments presented in it.
mutedm

0

19 November 2015 16: 28

Putin is a grandmaster! I am afraid that in this life we are not destined to understand all his wise steps. Thanks to him!
snerg7520

0

20 November 2015 05: 44

Well, well, all of Russia believes that Ukrainians are terrorists and have no right to exist - but you come to an agreement with the terrorists7, damn it... You need to shoot them..
snerg7520

0

20 November 2015 05: 53

Ukrainian is a synonym for the words terrorist, fascist, faggot and bandit...
mutedm

0

20 November 2015 09: 20

Putin is a grandmaster! I am afraid that in this life we are not destined to understand all his wise steps. Thanks to him!
9lvariag

0

20 November 2015 22: 08

OK it's all over Now....
Yaitsenyukh replied that he was not going to repay debts or pay off debt securities. The next step is to sue those who persuaded to buy “euro bonds” and/or the bank that insures the Irish Stock Exchange!
palm

0

21 November 2015 21: 51

The criminal inconsistency of Putin's Politburo. Ukraine as a state must disappear like Carthage.
Santjaga_Garka

0

22 November 2015 15: 46

I read so many articles here, but I have never written a comment on an economic article, because I don’t understand anything about it at all and I don’t know the background behind making this or that decision...

I am expressing my attitude towards political articles - yes, but only my attitude, and not a ready-made recipe for establishing peace in the whole world...

I think that any reasonable person should do this - if you don’t know how it works, don’t speculate...