Military Review

There is no need to shout. On the issue of debt restructuring in Ukraine

433
I would like to give a few comments about the sensational informational note.
"The President of Russia announced the decision on the restructuring of Ukrainian debt". And followers comments on it.


How many times have the world been told that first it is necessary to understand what is happening, and only then shout about the need for Maidan and others. Incorrect materials happen in which the essence of the moment is not fully reflected. But there are primary sources to which these materials refer. Carefully reading both the note and the comments, reading the original source, I want to say the following: let's deal line by line.

It must be said that informational notes differ from the articles in that they carry the main message, so to speak. Yes, in our case the message was a bit flawed. But this does not change the essence of what is happening.

So, discarding the "flashy headlines" of the media, designed to attract the attention of readers, we look at what Putin said.

"Russia has offered to extend the payment on the debt of Ukraine for 2016-2018 for $ 1 billion per year, said Russian President Vladimir Putin to journalists."

Here is the key word - "suggested“Therefore, even the title of the TASS message is“ crooked. ”The payment was not postponed. Only the offer was made.

"We were asked to postpone payment for the next year in the amount of $ 3 billion. I said that we are ready for a deeper restructuring. We are ready for this year not to receive any money at all, and to receive a billion next year, in 2017 year - another billion and in 2018 a year - another billion ”(V. Putin).

From this statement, it all started. "Putinlisl", "naspredali", "vernitenashidigi" and stuff like that. Kindergarten, not comments, to be honest. It seems that Ukraine has these 3 billion just lying in the basement of the State Bank, and the only question is how to give them to Russia - cash, lard or transfer.

Dear readers, are you talking about? What kind of return of any debt? Ukraine for interest alone can not scrape money. And you already shout about debts. Or do you seriously think that there, across the ocean, a kind uncle will pour three billion so that life in Russia becomes more fun with them?

What kind of world do you exist in?

I quote Putin again. Just that moment, which is not included in the note.

"Since our partners are confident that the creditworthiness of the Ukrainian state will grow, and we have no reason to doubt that we will receive even three billion next year, there are no concerns among our partners to come up with a guarantee on this loan."

Here! This is where everything that you screamed around is hidden. This is not Putin who came up with the initiative to forgive Ukraine’s debt. It was him somewhere there, on the sidelines, they mumbled, arguing that "the creditworthiness of the Ukrainian state will grow." And who rebelled on the restructuring? Yeah ...

Farther. Masterpiece.

"And we have no reason to doubt that we will receive even three billion next year, there are no fears from our partners to come up with a guarantee on this loan."

I translate. Especially for those who raised the liberokrik. If the EU and the United States believe that things in Ukraine will go to the amendment (with the help of the IMF), then, gentlemen intercessor, give us (Russia) a guarantee that you are responsible for the market.

It's simple.

Do you (in the West) think that everything in Ukraine will be chocolate at next year? No problem. We are ready not just to wait, but even how: one billion a year. BUT YOU us it guarantee.

All (or almost all) took credit in their lives. Who is the guarantor / guarantor of the loan? This is the one who, in the event of your insolvency, repays your debt to the bank for you. And you will deal in my own way. As a guarantee.

So, gentlemen screamers. Putin is trying (it is trying, in the West, too, not fools are sitting) to shape Russia with a sort of bank. And in the event of a final and irrevocable default of Ukraine, fuck anything from the West. Because from Ukraine, of course, nothing really can be taken. Officially at least.

veksha50
Quote: Yuyuka
2) who said that we with the help of the courts would not have pulled out this money, at least through the seizure of property and sanctions? we still buy goods from them ??
Um ... You forgot how much in Russia in the case of Yukos hung ???
How was our sailing training bark arrested ??? Well, and so on, and in the same vein ...
Through the court line with two things, we’ll get something out ... There, the Egghead is no longer 3 lard, but trillions Russia considers the debts, and it will be the same ... to write and sue ... And the debriefing will last 100 years before grandma’s conspiracy ...


In fact, the voice of crying in the wilderness. However, there is more logic and reason than in putntsil cries in 50. I find it difficult to calculate what kind of gray matter and how much it is necessary to have in order to seriously expect that those sitting in Stockholm, Geneva, Brussels and other The Hague will be seriously concerned about getting Russia its debts. But by the number of relevant comments it is noticeable that there is a shortage.

Karlovar
In addition, we are not talking about debt forgiveness, but talking about a deferral on 3 year! It seems that people only read the article title, and the article itself - no ...


And this is normal. The main thing here is to shout louder. And for this to read line by line and by letter is not necessary at all. I will say even more, and there is no need to read the article. Title and comments. It is enough to give birth to a cry of an indignant soul.

torp (1) SU
This is not a move! This is a waste! And shameful !!

Baikonur (5) SU
I told you, ours will be blown away!
Well, until the Nazis will forgive? BUT! At what gate can such humiliation and insults come into? Citizens of Russia, which raise utility tariffs, taxes, prices !!! What kind of e ........... ????

Angro Magno SU
I did not speak, but quietly was afraid of it. It turns out, not in vain afraid. I sensed.
It remains to congratulate the pupils from the present, but not fictional Peremoga. Yaytsenyuk did Putin, as promised.
Interestingly, what will the witnesses of the BSP now?


Oh, these loud-shouting ones from under the USSR flag ... Moreover, for the most part, unnamed users. In general, the last time this flag is just a refuge for such here ... know-all and all-understanding.

People are smart, they understand that zero, no matter what you do with it arithmetically, will remain zero. But this is difficult to understand, apparently. Of course, serve you tank columns marching from Kiev to Calais, victorious reports and all that. Including for some reason you really want this final and irrevocable default of Ukraine.

Directly Tukhachevsky, neither give nor take. Shut off the gas, arrange a default ... Thank God that the god does not give horns to the awesome cows, otherwise they would definitely have blocked them. And hopealti. You, judging by the statements of the Ukrainian authorities about all the people, don’t understand too much, you don’t even want to voice.

But one thing I will voice all the same. Two can "not reach." By all possible methods of postponing the default of Ukraine, Putin and his associates are “holding” the Donbass. It is difficult for you, loud-voiced, to understand that in the event of a final and irrevocable financial collapse of the Ukrainian system, the first thing that will be done is to cut off the power supply of Donbass and Crimea. And about this Demchishin spoke, and spoke more than once. You can shout that there is “everything in the ointment” and “everything is seized”, but many here, including us, are aware of who has been seized there, and how.

And personally, we will be very pleased if December 20 does not become a “D-day” for Donbass and Crimea. We, unlike you, understand this. Although the hope that the West will accept Putin’s proposal is minimal, we still hope that the case will burn out.

And we will be quite satisfied if our friends are in the Donbas, that in Ukraine they will be able to survive this winter relatively normally. Of course, in the concept of any agromagno it does not fit, but ...

The smartest and greatest man in stories the Russian state once said: "You need great upheavals, but I need a great Russia." So we want not only great Russia to be, but also Ukraine. And for this it is necessary that those who will build this Ukraine remain there.

Putin took another step that no one expected from him. Smart and tough in content. And God forbid that he got it all.

And if someone does not like it, then, together with one of our marshals, they can unanimously "turn their backs to Putin" (we do not know how he will survive it) and go in the opposite direction. To the west. And we sincerely wish you good luck and success.
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  1. Gavril
    Gavril 17 November 2015 05: 45
    11
    Let the author read the censor somehow, they have a vyser salute about "where are they going to", "but they still owe us", in short, everything for which no one likes Ukrainians, but the truth is where we share?
    1. USSR 1971
      USSR 1971 17 November 2015 05: 53
      128
      Let the censor write anything, this is a well-known Internet wash, it is not necessary to take it as the basis of common thoughts. It is clear that Russia has adapted to the circumstances of how to try to make an initially bad debt repayable or to get a more acceptable option of communication with the West in case of non-payment if there are no guarantees on their part.
      The song "Putin leaked" is already pretty boring, it's more about "echo" or "rain", they have an informational holiday there about this. Politics is a little more than a collective farm bazaar; in general, no one talks to Ukraine about debt, the conversation goes on with the owners of the wards. It's too early to say how it ends.
      1. Gavril
        Gavril 17 November 2015 06: 01
        58
        All the debts of Ukraine are bad, so why do we continue to give them? It’s boiling simply, you can’t shout at all Putin’s decisions, no matter how patriotic you are! Looking at black, we must say that it is black!
        1. USSR 1971
          USSR 1971 17 November 2015 06: 18
          43
          Hooray, no one screams, but the funeral is too early. And what do you think Putin’s decision should be? Forces of two shock armies go to Kiev for a loan? Let the owners of Kiev think what to give. Yes, by the way, there is still no solution. And maybe it won’t. And the people, well, directly ran into the desire for default. What will it give us except one more hemorrhoids?
          1. Private Starley
            Private Starley 17 November 2015 06: 38
            +5
            I would like to add that for the entire time of the confrontation between Donbass and Kiev, Russia sent more than one thousand tons of gum aid. Maybe gum help is no longer send? And as for the debt, as I understand it, the IMF will probably act as a guarantor for Ukraine, if that will pay for them or instead.
            1. Nicholas C.
              Nicholas C. 17 November 2015 06: 40
              97
              Sovereign obligations of Ukraine in the amount of three billion were placed on the Irish Exchange. Those. their return is, by definition, WARRANTED by England. Russia bought these obligations. If Ukraine cannot repay, then England must repay the debt and deal with its client, Ukraine itself.
              What else do you need guarantees for Putin?

              Where is the catch? What's wrong?
              1. Kuzyakin15
                Kuzyakin15 17 November 2015 07: 34
                34
                That's it! And if the guarantees of the British turned out to be "nothing", then where is the guarantee that the IMF guarantees can be trusted? The IMF is already trying to rewrite the rules under the independent
                1. Darkmor
                  Darkmor 17 November 2015 08: 31
                  99
                  You know, here to me, as an ordinary citizen, a non-member of Gazprom, not a deputy, not a high-ranking official, it is absolutely clear that I will not see any of this money anyway.
                  But "it's a shame for the state."

                  What the hell are we bred with this debt on duty?
                  Or we forgive him and put a dagger, with the hope that someday, maybe in a few decades they will return it to us.
                  Or we bring the matter to default and resolve issues in the courts.
                  It was all the same with gas - we, like, are principled - and then once, and then you get a discount, and with a debt we will wait and give a loan.
                  Well, if Ukraine does not have money now, why would they be afraid in a year? Should a gold meteorite fall on them? In a year, there will be AGAIN the same idiot for a billion, and we will again postpone the debt maturity? Wasn't it easier then, like all sheep, to agree to restructuring and raise interest rates? And it’s a no brainer that the "Western partners" do not guarantee or compensate us for anything.

                  Why make compromises where there were no compromises a month ago? It turns out that Ukraine is right, that it rested its horns on the ground, and drifted and backtracked in the end we. And by no reasonable argument you can convince the people of the opposite. Because that's exactly what it looks like ...
                  1. Bombardier
                    Bombardier 17 November 2015 09: 32
                    +9
                    Putin said that he had talked about this proposal with IMF head Christine Lagarde and US President Barack Obama, and they took the proposal “with interest”. However, Russia's initiative does not guarantee that the problem can be resolved. The fact is that the new Ukrainian bonds, which were issued this month in favor of commercial creditors as part of the restructuring, contain a special condition about the absence of privileges for holders of old securities (Most Favored Creditor). Russia alone did not agree to the restructuring of bonds, which involved the write-off of 20% of the par value of securities and successfully completed on November 12. Now Ukraine does not have the right to agree to a deal with Russia if the net present value (NPV - estimate of all future discounted cash flows from the investment) of this transaction is higher than that of new bonds.

                    “We are not legally entitled to offer anyone better conditions than those agreed with other creditors,” Yaresko confirmed last week.

                    NPV of Ukrainian bonds received by investors as a result of the exchange amounted to approximately 70% of the initial value of the securities (based on the discount rate of 10% specified in the prospectus of new bonds), says RBC American economist Adam Lerrik, a visiting researcher at American Enterprise Institute and a former investment banker . If Russia is restructuring the Ukrainian debt of $ 3 billion on the terms announced by Putin, the NPV of the new loan will be 80% or more, depending on the interest rate. Putin did not specify whether the interest rate will be charged and what. Even if the loan is interest-free, the NPV will be approximately 80%, Lerrick estimated, and if, for example, the rate remains the same as now (5% per annum), then the NPV will be 89%.

                    This is more than that of commercial lenders who agreed to restructuring, which means that it will violate the terms of new bonds. In this case, Ukraine will be obliged to compensate investors with the NPV premium, which will be obtained from Russia, and this is an additional cost.

                    The proposal voiced by the Russian president is political, but the legal aspects are not yet clear, said Deputy Minister of Finance Sergey Storchak to RBC. “The question of how the deferral of payments on bonds will be technically held is a legal one. It does not apply to a political decision [on the possibility of deferral of debt]. This is a technical issue. It involves a discussion with the debtor. While she was gone. Legal aspects will still be discussed, ”Storchak explained. He said that he did not know when so ...

                    The whole article here:
                    http://rusnext.ru/recent_opinions/1447736559
                    1. andj61
                      andj61 17 November 2015 09: 43
                      25
                      Everything is correct, except for a small "but":
                      The last restructuring of Ukraine’s debt was with respect to COMMERCIAL debts of COMMERCIAL lenders. The debt of Ukraine to Russia is a state debt, and the debt of one state to another.
                      Therefore, linking the terms of the restructuring of commercial debts with this debt is not correct. Unless, of course, you take the position of Yatsenyuk, who declared that Ukraine’s debt to Russia is not state, but there is a commercial debt ...
                      1. MrK
                        MrK 17 November 2015 10: 22
                        -5
                        Quote: andj61
                        The debt of Ukraine to Russia is a state debt, and the debt of one state to another.


                        Who told you that. Ukrainian authorities at all angles scream that Russia's debt is COMMERCIAL. But the IMF has still not come to the conclusion - what a dog.
                      2. Petr7
                        Petr7 17 November 2015 20: 43
                        +9
                        Quote: mrark
                        Who told you that. Ukrainian authorities at all angles scream that Russia's debt is COMMERCIAL.

                        "Don't read Ukrainian newspapers in the morning" ...
                      3. Throw
                        Throw 17 November 2015 23: 36
                        +5
                        Thoughts from the past ...
                      4. oracul
                        oracul 18 November 2015 08: 11
                        +1
                        What kind of 15 billion are we talking about? And what does Cuba have to do with maintaining a friendly attitude towards us, although in the days of Gorbachev and Yeltsin they simply abandoned her, leaving them to their fate?
                    2. Milana
                      Milana 18 November 2015 07: 51
                      0
                      Great!
                      Just a super quote !!! smile
              2. Bombardier
                Bombardier 17 November 2015 10: 29
                20
                As an option (from neta):
                But there is one more small piece of the puzzle explaining why Russia agrees specifically to a three-year delay in repaying debt. Because for another three years, we will need both Ukraine and Europe as a gas transit country, which means that one way or another these years it will receive Western support.

                And in 2019, Nord Stream -2 will be launched, and, as the Gazprom leadership has repeatedly stated, the need for the gas transmission system of Ukraine (and itself) will simply disappear.
                1. revnagan
                  revnagan 17 November 2015 11: 34
                  +1
                  Quote: Bombardier
                  And in 2019, Nord Stream -2 will be launched, and, as the Gazprom leadership has repeatedly stated, the need for the gas transmission system of Ukraine (and itself) will simply disappear.

                  This is a bluff. In order to eliminate the need for the gas transportation system of Ukraine, we will need Nord Stream 4. The stream is designed for 25 billion cubic meters, pumps about 12, and more than 70 billion goes through Ukraine.
                2. not main
                  not main 17 November 2015 21: 33
                  0
                  Quote: revnagan
                  . "Stream" is designed for 25 billion cubic meters, pumps about 12, and through Ukraine goes over 70 billion.

                  This is because of the third energy package of the EU, but I assure you that in case of a shitty situation they will simply forget about their energy package!
                3. Russian063
                  Russian063 18 November 2015 07: 57
                  +1
                  of which 50 is returned as a reverse?
              3. adept666
                adept666 17 November 2015 11: 37
                +8
                And in 2019, Nord Stream -2 will be launched, and, as the Gazprom leadership has repeatedly stated, the need for the gas transmission system of Ukraine (and itself) will simply disappear.
                To be honest, I don’t believe in it, we have already begun to throw stuffing that we are ready to discuss further transit on some new type of conditions there, and in the end we will agree to those that are being imposed on us.
              4. svd-xnumx
                svd-xnumx 17 November 2015 18: 38
                +1
                To be honest, I don’t believe in it, we have already begun to throw stuffing that we are ready to discuss further transit on some new type of conditions there, and in the end we will agree to those that are being imposed on us.
                After the 19th year, gas will be supplied to Moldova and Transnistria through Ukraine, if Ukraine and Moldova still exist.
              5. adept666
                adept666 17 November 2015 19: 08
                +5
                After the 19th year, gas will be supplied to Moldova and Transnistria through Ukraine, if Ukraine and Moldova still exist.
                You know, I personally don’t care how we will supply gas there for any acceptable option, but if we want to do this through Ukraine, we don’t need bravura populist statements that we shut off the valve after 2019. And if they said, stick to the said line, or the feathers were fluffed up like turkeys, and after a while they started to turn on the back one: well, they say, we can think if someone is there, etc. etc. And it turns out one says one thing right there another says the opposite, Miller can’t coordinate his testimony with the government? If we continue in the same vein, no one will believe us, or rather, nobody ALREADY believes in our statements there, therefore there is no South Stream, and it is possible that Turkey will not burn out the North-2 big question, but why? And because we do not do what we say, we always give in. Does it make sense for them to strain to compromise, to build something themselves if it’s easier to bend us again? I’m generally for any compromises, but mutual, and for some reason, compromises on our part only agree that you won’t cook the porridge. Now, if we had yielded less before this, then our statement on the South Stream would be taken more seriously because we knew that we were not joking. This is all IMHO, but just boiling.
        2. Balbes_I
          Balbes_I 17 November 2015 22: 15
          +3
          The main nuance in Putin's proposal is the proposal to our partners to create a club of guarantors of Ukraine's economic "recovery". Since Ukraine is de facto under external control, then comrades outside managers should be responsible for its obligations. Neither we nor they need Ukraine's default, therefore, for these comrades, Putin's proposal is an option to get out of the current situation without any special losses, BUT Ukraine will not be able to repay the debt on its own neither now nor in the foreseeable future if it continues to follow the current course. Consequently, comrades external managers must return Ukraine to the civilized world, which is what we need and buy it with a delay in payment of 3 lard is aerobatics.
      2. Diana Ilyina
        Diana Ilyina 17 November 2015 10: 02
        23
        Quote: Darkmor

        But "it's a shame for the state."


        Gentlemen, gentlemen, why are you like small children ?! Well, none of you know who agreed on what with Putin ?! Nobody knows what and what the auction was about and who bargained for it! Let's not run ahead of the engine, chickens, as they say, count in the fall!
        1. Baikonur
          Baikonur 17 November 2015 11: 00
          11
          Maybe Putin 3 years of free living all the Russians in the Canary Islands bargained!
          As in x / f "Shirley-Myrley"! laughing

          But it’s still a shame that they shouted that they were not going to make concessions, but it turned out as always!

          The Russians believed and hoped that with dignity our rulers would bring to a logical, honest conclusion of the deal with the devil! But it turns out that the Russians deceived us! Moreover, as always! And they threw some fascists, in whom we (in the official doctrine (law)) are aggressors, enemies! And at the same time, our rulers, at least, have forgiven both the Urkov and the Russians!
        2. Saratoga833
          Saratoga833 17 November 2015 11: 29
          15
          Quote: Diana Ilyina
          none of you know who and what agreed with Putin

          Why should I not know what the leader of my state is doing? Why don't I need to know how MY money will be distributed? What is the secret here? This undercover fuss is already bothering me a lot, I need clarity, not a "secret plan"!
          1. jjj
            jjj 17 November 2015 11: 47
            +6
            I would like to insert one small remark. Look, the subject of conversation with the West was the possibility of restructuring the Ukrainian debt, and not "Russia's implementation of the Minsk agreements" or the return of Crimea to Ukraine. That is, the issues on the agenda are being overshadowed.
          2. Felix1
            Felix1 17 November 2015 16: 43
            -1
            You probably are not good, but Obama said that Russia should expect new sanctions from the United States and Europe if the Minsk agreements are not implemented.
          3. Militia
            Militia 18 November 2015 04: 07
            +5
            And you are aware that when deciding on the debt, Poroshenko again nervously smokes on the sidelines. He was not even called to the arrow. And the bunny has already declared my help from his stupidity. It is not clear to you that no one will guarantee that Ukraine will pay the debt. There are no fools. Nobody wants to pay for ukrov. Even a very tanned president because of a large puddle who is proud of his friendship with Pedro Gunpowder. So phenytomy comedy!
      3. Petr7
        Petr7 17 November 2015 20: 47
        +3
        if you want to scream so much about where the money went, ask the liberals why they want to cancel free medicine, why they lack money, when the USSR had enough, even the Russian Federation has had enough since 1991, and now it’s not enough!
      4. Region-25.rus
        Region-25.rus 18 November 2015 23: 41
        +1
        yours! Have you earned them? Or write off all the debts !? So in WWII, they built tanks, and planes for donations! And ..... ???? And you are eating a chicken leg and probably dreaming of Ferarri and a bunch of whores whining and even better! Russian b ... Place you with the liberals!
        Or are Putin and Churkny obliged to report to you before bedtime and in the morning about all the facts in geopolitics? I would say so - "Who are you still there?"
    2. igordok
      igordok 17 November 2015 14: 37
      16
      Quote: Diana Ilyina
      Gentlemen, gentlemen, why are you like small children ?! Well, none of you know who agreed on what with Putin ?! Nobody knows what and what the auction was about and who bargained for it! Let's not run ahead of the engine, chickens, as they say, count in the fall!

      To crest in comes.

      I apologize but the resolution is small. Original at http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/hrono61/14012115/197668/197668_original.jpg
      Putin hesitates The situation with Russian debt is simple as a piece of laundry soap, if you remember that of 12,6 billion dollars. of our gold reserves, Ukraine itself owns only 1,2 billion. The rest is IMF money.
      In other words, there is nothing to give us the debt of Russia in 3 billion from. We just don't have that money. Moreover, we will no longer have currency at all.
      And everyone knows that. And Putin is well aware that Ukraine will never repay the debt. You can sue for years, but there will still be no money. Neither now, nor in a year, nor through 10. We have become a state that does not have its own currency, and this is forever. Nowhere to make money. And all that we earn will immediately go to import because we ourselves do not produce anything from what a person needs. Who understands - he understands.
      When Putin agrees to defer the debt of Ukraine, but demands Western guarantees in response, he simply engages in political banter.
      Nobody believes in the economy of Ukraine - it simply is no longer there! - therefore, to issue guarantees means simply to take the debt upon yourself and pay it to Russia. Neither the US, nor the EU, nor the IMF will do this.
      But by refusing guarantees, the West will demonstrate its real attitude to Ukraine and its real faith in its economy ..
      And that’s precisely what Putin’s goal is to simply poke fun at the West and expose it in a miserable cynical form in the eyes of its nuclear electorate. In essence, the West is.

      1. Apsit
        Apsit 17 November 2015 15: 32
        +1
        Quote: igordok
        And that’s precisely what Putin’s goal is to simply poke fun at the West and expose it in a miserable cynical form in the eyes of its nuclear electorate. In essence, the West is.

        I think so.
      2. bannik
        bannik 17 November 2015 18: 46
        +2
        So it is (IMHO). The West will vouch for the outskirts? Do not tell my slippers! They will say something like this: Putin has set unacceptable conditions!
    3. Felix1
      Felix1 17 November 2015 16: 33
      +4
      Diana, you are an optimist, but believe me, the situation will not change, that is, that is.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. hotrod
    hotrod 17 November 2015 10: 50
    37
    There are many of you who are "offended for the State".
    Yesterday, while listening to the news, I experienced mixed feelings. At first, "no, just not writing off the debt," and then, when I heard the terms, it became fun. VPR of Russia produced the "kidok" very well.
    Having taken an unshakable position on the debt, Russia showed its independence in this matter. By time, everything has been brought almost to default, this is clear to everyone. Putin prepared to make responsible for the default of Ukraine, such as he, the tyrant-cannibal.
    But Putin, having waited for a very authoritative gathering in public and "according to concepts", threw the West into grandmothers. In public and by definition! With all sixes, of which there are half in twenty. And now (the proposal is not accepted) either the West loses face "in front of everyone," or the US pays for Ukraine, which will not add credibility to the West either.
    Let's not wring our hands, let's not sing "it's all gone." Especially when we see a beautiful combination. Believe in the Country!
    1. marl
      marl 17 November 2015 11: 20
      11
      Quote: hotrod
      while listening to the news experienced mixed feelings. At first, "no, just not writing off the debt," and then, when I heard the terms, it became fun.


      Plus from me! I was waiting for the end of this theatrical PAUSE. VVP knows how to make an impression. This is not just a "kidok", he has not yet denied himself the pleasure of trolling the "partners" along the way:
      "Since our partners are confident that the creditworthiness of the Ukrainian state will grow and we have no reason to doubt that we will receive even three billion next year, there is no fear of our partners to come up with a guarantee on this loan," Vladimir Putin said.
      That's how it is! If you are so sure that everything is going uphill in Ukraine, then it costs you nothing to vouch for these guys, no risks, they will pay for themselves. You have been trying to convince us of this all the time. The final scene "on whom to hang the debts of Ukraine" seems to be coming to a conclusion. We will not hang anything on ourselves, but we can wait a bit - the ball is on your side. We are waiting for the solutions of the "partners" ...
      1. Petr7
        Petr7 17 November 2015 20: 59
        +1
        when Putin is silent - the West is in shock, but when Putin says - the West is furiously digging a hole for itself (or the grave, as you like)
    2. Valentine
      Valentine 17 November 2015 12: 34
      +5
      In your reasoning there is a rational kernel,
      let's hope that they are confirmed, but ....
      our "friends" and "partners" have so many unfulfilled "promises", and so much "indifference"
      that it is useless to believe them, even at the global level. And about the "sixes" I just keep quiet.
      1. marl
        marl 17 November 2015 14: 25
        0
        Quote: Valentine
        to believe them, even at a global level, is useless


        You don't have to believe them. You just need to push them together, which, in fact, is done by this "special" proposal. Once again, show the world who is who and who muddies the waters. This is an offer you cannot refuse without losing face. Either they believe in the possibility of a "democratic" state of Ukraine and some of the patrons bail it, or no one takes it, then it means they do not believe, and it follows that they lie to the whole world, that Ukraine is moving by leaps and bounds on the path to general prosperity, and the Russian Federation interferes with it.
        Russia is still in the foreseeable future, default is not a default, this debt will not receive, the "partners" will try. And so, at least some chance remains, if, of course, international law is still working - no one has canceled international courts yet.
    3. Sorokin
      Sorokin 17 November 2015 18: 30
      0
      We’ll believe in the country. But about the divorce is strong.
    4. Wajra-3
      Wajra-3 17 November 2015 22: 46
      0
      It is not enough to say "fun", and I experienced a feeling that I had never experienced when Russia was solving financial and economic issues, with a pronounced political background.
      You asked, asked, proved, proved that Ukraine is creditworthy, it is on the verge of economic recovery, etc. etc.
      Okay! Persuaded! We agree! Write a guarantee of return and reissue documents.
      I think that more and interest on these loans will run up considerable.
      Already general silence suggests that our proposal is difficult to digest and refuse our urgent requests for debt restructuring.
      The situation is worse than the governor. And publicly take back your words and give money for Ukraine, because it is not calculated in life.
    5. Alexandr Volkov
      Alexandr Volkov 19 November 2015 13: 27
      +1
      If Ukraine has a future, then guarantee an insignificant amount of 3 billion?

      If they guarantee, then they recognize that it is their bandits, their Nazis, they will take responsibility for these bloody clowns. But it will start with one billion, and then 280 dead women who have already been found under the Red Army will be revealed. Then 50 thousand killed and which spoke German intelligence. Further down the list ...

      And if they say no, then:
      - Ukraine is not going to bankrupt Russia. Ukraine will be bankrupted by the states, the west and all progressive mankind;
      - Ukrainian Nazis will be bankrupted by their owners. That is, if you want to serve the West, then serve, but this does not mean that the West will not throw you;
      - The West will sign its lies, they say that Ukraine has a future and immediately refuse to guarantee it?
  4. adept666
    adept666 17 November 2015 11: 34
    +4
    Why make compromises where there were no compromises a month ago? It turns out that Ukraine is right, that it rested its horns on the ground, and drifted and backtracked in the end we. And by no reasonable argument you can convince the people of the opposite. Because that's exactly what it looks like ...
    It doesn’t just look, but it really is. We say that there will be no discounts, then if you please get it, then we say in 2019 - Ukraine is not a transit country, after half a year we are already talking, we are ready to discuss transit. Now we say give it as you wish or default, and then after a couple of months: but the new conditions are not simple, but even better than the USA and the IMF asked. The superpower (if we position ourselves this way) should not rush about like that. For it makes sense to make uncompromising statements, and then merge and look in the eyes of the whole world as cheap framers who even can't bluff normally? But why give money to the Russian Federation? Now Ukraine, tomorrow Belarus, then South Africa or India, and why Europe can pay for gas, but you can borrow as much as Ukraine and you don’t need to give money! Everyone to take an example from Ukraine!
  5. Felix1
    Felix1 17 November 2015 16: 23
    0
    But the situation with gas was somewhat different. if Gazprom does not give Ukraine a discount on gas, then Ukraine buys gas in Europe at a European price and Gazprom pays for gas transit through Ukraine to Europe, which then goes to Ukraine again, Ukraine compensates itself for some of the money from transit and Gazprom, on the contrary, overpays for the loss of gas. isn’t it easier to supply gas directly to Ukraine at a discount? there’s nothing personal, just business. it just didn’t have to be promoted, they say we will give or we won’t give a discount and there wouldn’t be any such stupid situations now they say they said one thing and then they picked up and caved in, business should be done in a calm atmosphere and quiet and not interfere with politics.
    1. adept666
      adept666 17 November 2015 16: 54
      +3
      there’s nothing personal, just business. it just didn’t have to be promoted, they say we will give or we won’t give a discount and there wouldn’t be any such stupid situations now they say they said one thing and then they got it and caved in
      So that's the point. It is clear that the situation is not binary, everything is complicated there. But the fact that ours are being converted, I was almost sure. The question is, if I was a simple layman sure of this, then what did officials like Peskov hope for? They knew very well that they would make concessions for they had no special choice in the campaign. What it was to bear: Ukraine must pay otherwise default! And now look like I'm sorry something bad. Wasn’t it better to tell Rabbit right away: do you want a restructuring? Ok, we understand that your situation is complicated. Restructuring will be, but on our terms: we will give you an installment plan for 3 years, but find a guarantor who will sign for you. All the same? In terms of the current result - yes, in terms of image - heaven and earth.
      1. Gemini
        Gemini 19 November 2015 01: 00
        0
        Schazzz, negotiate with the rabbit. Where did such moderately smart come from?
      2. adept666
        adept666 19 November 2015 06: 11
        0
        Schazzz, agree with the rabbit.
        Not to negotiate, but to initially dictate our terms, but taking into account the fact that the one we dictate to them can fulfill them and prevent Rabbits from presenting the situation as if he had bent us (and now it looks like someone who wouldn’t have his clever analytics proved). This is at least a very serious image loss for us, including the points of a rabbit in front of his own electorate. Let me remind you that these people call us enemies and aggressors, and instead of discrediting them in the eyes of their own supporters (ordinary silly Ukrainians), we ourselves give them the opportunity to get out of the pit of a negative rating.
        Where did such moderately smart people come from?
        Moderately? wassat Are you sure you read my comments carefully? smile
  • Petr7
    Petr7 17 November 2015 20: 39
    0
    Alas, there is no Black and White in the Big Politician!
    Big Politics is done on COMPROMISES and there’s just a compromise or you will NEVER get ANYTHING, or get less, and the debtor will beat the debt out or not, the one who paid for it
  • Yuyuka
    Yuyuka 18 November 2015 16: 55
    +2
    Why make compromises where there were no compromises a month ago? It turns out that Ukraine is right, that it rested its horns on the ground, and drifted and backtracked in the end we. And by no reasonable argument you can convince the people of the opposite. Because that's exactly what it looks like ...

    Yes, I’m really sick of it, such as the author of this article, to tell the same thing, but in other words, it’s not the point that we are postponing these 3 billion, but in the approaches, porches HOW it all happens! if he cited all the arguments that were expressed not only by me, but he pulled out the pieces and hangs labels on everyone! and most understand everything about guarantees - where are the guarantees to Yanukovych? so full of examples of their nonsense - how did they deal with Libya, with Iraq? and most importantly, the restructuring of the debts of its citizens is in no way similar to the Ukrainian one! Root must be seen, author!
  • Nick
    Nick 18 November 2015 19: 01
    +1
    Quote: Darkmor
    You know, here to me, as an ordinary citizen, a non-member of Gazprom, not a deputy, not a high-ranking official, it is absolutely clear that I will not see any of this money anyway.
    But "it's a shame for the state."

    What the hell are we bred with this debt on duty?
    Or we forgive him and put a dagger, with the hope that someday, maybe in a few decades they will return it to us.
    Or we bring the matter to default and resolve issues in the courts.

    Read the article. If the West officially gives a guarantee of return, then Russia will wait with default Ruins, if not, then default. What to suck out all sorts of nonsense from a finger? Or do you not get the point of what you read? In the article, the whole position of Russia on the shelves is laid out
  • Region-25.rus
    Region-25.rus 18 November 2015 23: 32
    +1
    And you ... as a modern citizen, you definitely need to fuck with something to which you didn't even put your little finger? .. Like out of nothing but a gash! What did you personally do for Russia to claim the purse? I'm wondering? !!!! Or without you they won't find where to apply !? There are great people ... who create "Calibers", Armata and so on! I understand to them! And who are you?
    And in the Second World War, people ... especially in St. Petersburg and 200 grams of bread a day! So that? Or do you ... how will the norm go down to 300 grams at once will you sell your mother and grandmother? And all relatives just to live more or less in satiety? But with such we are not on the way! Welcome to "Rain" and "Echo"! There are grants distributed!
    and judging by the number of pluses ... as the legendary Waf said, "hurray-patriots" nested here! And in fact, just primitive primates .. that they read stupidly headings and delving into and without analyzing the essence!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • maxim1987
    maxim1987 17 November 2015 13: 37
    +5
    Quote: Kuzyakin15
    That's it! And if the guarantees of the British turned out to be "nothing", then where is the guarantee that the IMF guarantees can be trusted? The IMF is already trying to rewrite the rules under the independent


    and NATO they promised not to expand
  • Nick
    Nick 18 November 2015 18: 56
    +1
    Quote: Kuzyakin15
    That's it! And if the guarantees of the British turned out to be "nothing", then where is the guarantee that the IMF guarantees can be trusted? The IMF is already trying to rewrite the rules under the independent

    Guarantees Ruins are nothing, and the IMF is still more solvent. And the guarantees of England are just fake. England Russia did not give any guarantees.
    1. Gemini
      Gemini 19 November 2015 01: 04
      0
      The keepers also said that they would pull back, but they didn’t give it away. And then unscrew the eggs ...
  • Angro Magno
    Angro Magno 17 November 2015 08: 12
    13
    If England had already guaranteed a refund, why, one wonders, to talk about a deferment and ask for new guarantees? It can be seen our strategists in charge of the Ukrainian issue again screwed up.
    In any case, the banderlogs perked up. Image losses exceed material.
    1. hrapon
      hrapon 17 November 2015 09: 49
      +2
      Quote: Angro Magno
      If England had already guaranteed a refund, why, one wonders, to talk about a deferment and ask for new guarantees? It can be seen our strategists in charge of the Ukrainian issue again screwed up.
      In any case, the banderlogs perked up. Image losses exceed material.



      The joy of degenerates (since when did the word "stupid person" get banned?) Can only "spoil" the image of very impressionable people.
      1. Angro Magno
        Angro Magno 17 November 2015 12: 16
        -1
        But it can shorten life in the Donbass and the calmest people. You, as I understand it, did not think about these.
    2. antoXa
      antoXa 17 November 2015 11: 58
      +5
      Angro Magno
      You have already been singled out separately in the article, and you will not get away with your "expert" assessments))))) but judging by the number of pluses to your comment, it is not in vain that Skomorokhov and Staver were crucified))))
      1. Angro Magno
        Angro Magno 17 November 2015 12: 14
        0
        I am happy that Skomorokhov mentioned me. Only me his expert assessments did not inspire loyal ecstasy in any way.
      2. Gemini
        Gemini 19 November 2015 01: 07
        0
        yes, here the five "moderate" ran under the Soviet flags and gradually shit in the brain, it seems like everything is correct, but it smells like shit ...
  • Nikolay K
    Nikolay K 17 November 2015 09: 01
    19
    What are the guarantees of England, what nonsense. In your opinion, if Ukrainian bonds were placed on the Russian stock exchange, then Russia would be responsible for payments on them. Who ever came up with such tales for you, have you read at classmates?
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 17 November 2015 09: 29
      +5
      This is what I see in this event.
      If I were an investor (banker, financier, etc.), then after such an example. When money is given to one (Ukraine), and with a return, I have to negotiate with another - the IMF, the USA, the EU (and also asks to write off part of the debts). Then I would not invest money in such cases. That is, it will have quite serious consequences for Ukraine. Private traders and bankers will turn their backs. There will remain international institutions and "masters" who will begin to dictate any onerous terms to Ukraine.
      What wins-loses the RF. There is no money in Ukraine - there is no sense to pressure. But load interest on the trail. three years with a guaranteed return - it makes sense. Ukraine did not jump off the hook. And if there is a default, then only the Almighty knows when the money will be returned. Any "inventory of property" will begin, which Russia will definitely not get - the owners and oligarchs of Ukraine will not give it. So this is probably the best way out of all the existing options.
      But does the West need such a crap? Now any finance. only the West can help, which so does not want to take such a clamp (otherwise, all Ukraine’s debts would have been overbought a long time ago). No one, even with all the desire, then wants to have financial affairs with Ukraine (then get out with the IMF or the USA with the EU - yeah, they just ran away).
      While Crimea is dependent on Ukraine (electricity, transit, etc.), the GDP will maneuver. Economically, Moscow can "slam" Kiev at any time, especially in winter. And the Kremlin is not particularly loosening the loop - since the New Year, the Russian government has announced that Ukrainian products will go through customs clearance. That is, Ukraine will no longer have a preferential trade regime with the CIS. hi
      1. Saratoga833
        Saratoga833 17 November 2015 11: 34
        +9
        Is there no money in Ukraine? Doctors! There are considerable amounts of money for war and personal enrichment of the elite, but how is there no debt to give money? I will never believe in this nonsense!
        1. Kasym
          Kasym 17 November 2015 17: 34
          0
          So can you get the money out of the pockets of the oligarchs? It's about the treasury.
      2. Sorokin
        Sorokin 17 November 2015 18: 42
        0
        Yes, and right. We will see.
    2. Poppy
      Poppy 17 November 2015 09: 48
      +9
      no England, of course, guaranteed anything - here you are right
      would just default

      and so Westerners will be forced to pay for Ukraine
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Jack-b
    Jack-b 17 November 2015 09: 17
    +3
    Quote: Nikolai S.
    Where is the catch? What's wrong?

    There is a quote from veksha50 in the article, he briefly told what was wrong. More details can be found here:
    http://www.ritmeurasia.org/news--2015-11-16--ukrainskij-dolg-rossii-situacija-ra
    zvivaetsja-po-negativnomu-scenariju-20555

    So with all the guarantees, this debt was actually practically irreparable. If Putin manages to push through his proposals, then he immediately increases the chances of a return by several orders of magnitude. Although with a delay. In addition, after all, no one knows the full installment conditions. I do not exclude that there is a percentage for installments.
  • hrapon
    hrapon 17 November 2015 09: 42
    +7
    Quote: Nikolay S.
    Sovereign obligations of Ukraine in the amount of three billion were placed on the Irish Exchange. Those. their return is, by definition, WARRANTED by England. Russia bought these obligations. If Ukraine cannot repay, then England must repay the debt and deal with its client, Ukraine itself.
    What else do you need guarantees for Putin?

    Where is the catch? What's wrong?


    Here I would like to see more details. How did England "definitely guarantee a return"?

    The Russian Federation purchased Euro bonds issued by Ukraine for the funds of the National Wealth Fund (i.e. budget funds). These bonds were issued for free placement on the exchange (which does not matter). Until that moment, I had never heard that the Russian Federation, at the expense of budgetary funds, acquired any derivatives that would insure against non-payment of these bonds. The first who reported this, neither Ulyukaev, nor Siluanov, nor Korchak, nor even any "Vesti" or, at worst, RBC, and our dear Nikolai S.

    Sovereign debt is sovereign because it, as a rule, does not require any additional guarantees. Of course, we could acquire any financial instruments that guarantee against non-refund, but these would be additional budget expenses.

    Don't chase: "England definitely guaranteed." With what drunken joy? Pure bullshit.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Aleksander
    Aleksander 17 November 2015 09: 42
    +5
    Quote: Nikolay S.
    Sovereign obligations of Ukraine in the amount of three billion were placed on the Irish Exchange. Those. their return is, by definition, WARRANTED by England. Russia bought these obligations. If Ukraine cannot repay, then England must repay the debt and deal with its client, Ukraine itself.
    What else do you need guarantees for Putin?

    Where is the catch? What's wrong?


    Yes, everything is so! And this one "pitiful babble of justification" the authors are just ridiculous! Warranty guarantees, what kind of wildness ?!
    It’s clear that the money will not be returned, so at least FACE save necessary! And do not give discounts, do not pay for gas transit on account of this debt.
    And yet, WHERE is the money for electricity, coal ALREADY delivered at domestic prices?! Not a dime!
    And this is wildness and complete ... a.
  • VP
    VP 17 November 2015 09: 47
    +3
    Who told you that England guaranteed them?
  • Poppy
    Poppy 17 November 2015 09: 47
    +2
    trick in taking obligations for the current authorities, which Westerners support
    support - let them pay
  • Vladimir 1964
    Vladimir 1964 17 November 2015 11: 56
    +4
    Quote: Nikolai S.
    Sovereign obligations of Ukraine in the amount of three billion were placed on the Irish Exchange. Those. their return is, by definition, WARRANTED by England. Russia bought these obligations. If Ukraine cannot repay, then England must repay the debt and deal with its client, Ukraine itself.
    What else do you need guarantees for Putin?

    There is one small nuance, Dear Nikolay, the loan was at a low rate and specifically the actual purchase of Eurobonds. I do not know the terms of the contract, but from practice, state loans are not insured by brokers, because the state borrower itself acts as a guarantor of bonds. If my conclusions are correct, then, accordingly, we will not receive money.
    winked
  • sisa29
    sisa29 17 November 2015 17: 51
    0
    Unfortunately or vice versa, fortunately, we know only part of the information. They give us only what we need to know and as a result to express our opinion. Where is the truth, but probably not where we are thinking.
    It just comes to mind meeting-duty-bomb-rockets. Do you think there is a connection?
    Yours!
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 17 November 2015 22: 26
    +2
    Quote: Nikolai S.
    Where is the catch? What's wrong?

    Where did you find that England is responsible for loans? It is only the holder of the site at best. Loans are always issued at your own peril and risk — it flew by, it’s not enough to conduct the analysis itself. They bought junk bonds, now we scratch turnips. By the way, are you afraid of default - Debts can be recovered through a court with the arrest and sale of Hohlyak property in our country and in Europe.
    By the way, where is the guarantee that the restructured debt will be repaid? Let's still remember the debts of the fraternal countries, how much they wrote off
  • Nick
    Nick 18 November 2015 18: 54
    0
    Quote: Nikolay S.
    Sovereign obligations of Ukraine in the amount of three billion were placed on the Irish Exchange. Those. their return is, by definition, WARRANTED by England. Russia bought these obligations. If Ukraine cannot repay, then England must repay the debt and deal with its client, Ukraine itself.
    What else do you need guarantees for Putin?

    Where is the catch? What's wrong?

    You can link to the contract of guarantee of England on the debt of Ukraine. Be kind. hi
  • Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 17 November 2015 06: 40
    38
    Quote: USSR 1971
    Let the owners of Kiev think what to give.

    The fact that they will not give back the debt or will be, that I did not doubt something. Another thing is that Ukraine has money, but they do not want to give it back.
    But after such news, I don’t understand why the hell to meet them. The Chinese will definitely not sell them on credit.
    1. Angro Magno
      Angro Magno 17 November 2015 07: 32
      26
      Here with our money they will pay the Chinese.
      I believe that such kindness will result in additional deaths for the Donbass.
      1. Slavapom
        Slavapom 17 November 2015 11: 22
        +6
        To begin with, let Ukraine return almost 6 of billions of dollars to China for grain not supplied, and only then buy whatever it wants.
        1. Angro Magno
          Angro Magno 17 November 2015 12: 18
          +1
          They are already discussing this.
    2. Poppy
      Poppy 17 November 2015 09: 58
      +2
      they can agree as many
      but in fact they don’t have any money to prepay gas for several days!
      no prepayment for a couple! days of electricity
    3. Dryuya2
      Dryuya2 17 November 2015 11: 07
      +3
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      But after such news, I don’t understand why the hell to meet them. The Chinese will definitely not sell them on credit.

      Sharia, then probably many watched and in almost every video he says
      "turn on your brain, don't be" dumb cotton "
      ========
      open wiki and opa
      The development of the supersonic combat trainer L-15 was launched in the early 2000s, together with the Russian Yakovlev Design Bureau and the Ukrainian Progress ZMKB. The Russian design bureau provided technical documentation for the Yak-130 aircraft, and the Ukrainian design bureau delivered DV-2 engines for prototype testing. [1]
      In 2004, the L-15 was first demonstrated at an air show in Zhuhai.
      In 2006, a prototype aircraft performed its first flight.
      In 2009, Yuriy Yekhanurov, Minister of Defense of Ukraine, announced his intention to establish a joint production of a combat trainer L-15 with Hongdu. [7] [8]
      In 2010, an improved version of the L-2010 Lift (Lead in fighter training), which made its first flight on October 15, 20, was presented at the Air Show China 2010 air show. The upgraded version received Ukrainian jet engines with afterburner AI-222-25F. Power plants AI-222-25 (without afterburner) are equipped with Russian Yak-130. [9] Thanks to modernization, the maneuverability of the L-15 has improved to the level of third-generation fighters, and in terms of rate of climb, the aircraft is not inferior to the American F-16 and the French Mirage 2000. [9]
      On August 15, 2010, Hongdu announced that the development of the L-15 was completed. [4]
      In 2011, Hongdu ordered 250 Ukrainian AI-222-25F engines for L-15 combat training aircraft with delivery by 2015. [10]
      In 2013, it became known about a long-term contract with Motor Sich from 2001 for the supply of 1920 AI-222-25F engines and the repair of 3840 units until 2041 for a total of $ 5,7 billion [11].
      In 2015, Ukraine preliminarily agreed with the PRC on the purchase of Hongdu L-15 for the needs of the Ukrainian Air Force. The main condition of the deal is the localization of the assembly of combat vehicles at the Odessa Aviation Plant ("Odesaviaremservice"), whose capacity will increase with the help of the Chinese side. However, the number of purchased attack aircraft and the value of the contract are not reported. [12]
    4. Felix1
      Felix1 17 November 2015 13: 52
      -2
      I am familiar with this situation, the assembly will be in Odessa and the engines that are on the Yak 130 and on the l15 are Zaporizhzhya.
      1. Sorokin
        Sorokin 17 November 2015 19: 00
        +2
        What engines? Where from? Himself NOT FUNNY?
        1. Felix1
          Felix1 17 November 2015 21: 24
          -3
          Which, where. Motorsich, wake up.
  • Gavril
    Gavril 17 November 2015 07: 07
    12
    How was this supposed to be Putin’s decision? He should have sent everyone to hell! Yes, yes, in order for default to happen there! That all their government should be washed away by a stream of popular anger! And it would cost us 3 billion, which I think is much cheaper than forgiving them all debts, and the past and most importantly FUTURE!
  • Doomph
    Doomph 17 November 2015 08: 21
    +1
    Yeah. And how Prophetic Oleg to nail a shield on the gates of Constantinople (that is, Kiev) laughing
  • Nikolay K
    Nikolay K 17 November 2015 08: 57
    13
    Who originally gave this loan to Ukraine, Pushkin or what? Moreover, at 5% per annum, when all the others at that moment were already issuing at 20%. So what kind of tough and smart step are we talking about if the task is now to get back at least in 5 years. Who would give our economy loans at 5% per annum, albeit in foreign currency?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • bandabas
    bandabas 17 November 2015 09: 30
    +4
    The fact is that even when there is money, you really don’t want to give it back. And I want to borrow more, and again not to give. So the solution is simple - no longer give. Even if they give it back. A bad example is contagious.
    1. DobryAAH
      DobryAAH 17 November 2015 14: 45
      +4
      Yeah, and in Ukraine there is BEAC and, in my opinion, VTB. All loans to Ukrainians, you can arrange another kidalovo quilted jackets.
      1. Nikolay K
        Nikolay K 17 November 2015 22: 53
        0
        Already seem to have arranged. The daughter has a sphere in Ukraine this year, losses
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • ancient
    ancient 17 November 2015 09: 53
    10
    Quote: USSR 1971
    Hooray, no one screams, but the funeral is too early


    So "urya" seems to be screaming and there are no special reasons wink , and about the funeral .... the same, of course, busting ... but the fact that the Rabbit once again raped ..... whom it has .. it's a FACT !!!
    This is why ... it becomes "sad".

    As with the classics ... "and the king is ... naked."

    Well, the authors credit ... the "deflection" is credited! wassat
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 November 2015 11: 00
      15
      Dear Sergey, welcome! drinks
      In general - yes, the move is at least strange. First, the rabbit, in a completely unacceptable form, inclines us to a postponement, threatening in case of refusal with all the punishments of heaven. We proudly say: "never!", And then ... we agree wassat
      And this is a very sad symptom. Of course, I don’t know the ideas of GDP regarding Ukraine, but here we have 2 options — either try to initiate a default or relax, and try to enjoy it.
      Issuing these 3 billion to Yanukovych would make sense if this issue were part of some cunning plan - well, like a raider company buys up another's debts in order to bankrupt it and take it into property. In this case, there is no question of "taking ownership", but the leverage over the leadership of the Krajina is strong ... And we do not use it. It turns out that there is no "cunning plan", but it's a pity! Russia is a wonderland, so everyone wants to believe in fairy tales :)
      All this says only one thing - the current government in Ukraine is now acceptable to the GDP and it is ready to support it, to negotiate with it - which again means that neither now nor in the future will the GDP try to bring the pro-Russian government to power. And this is far from the best symptom for Novorossiya. And for the Russian Federation - a situation in which "svidomye" who hate the Russian Federation are fostered by our side is clearly not going to do any good.
      Well, about the "guarantees" - this is the respected authors, yes ... bent. France easily violated the treaty obligations on the Mistrals, what guarantees can we talk about ?! Even if they are signed by all European leaders, they have no faith. For some reason, O'Henry comes to mind: "And if I sell you soaked stocks, you will also demand water in crystal decanters ?!"
      1. IS-80
        IS-80 17 November 2015 11: 20
        +8
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Well, about the "guarantees" - this is the respected authors, yes ... bent.

        I read the article, what do you say? It’s sad. The oligarchs seem to have bought Skomorokhov. sad
        1. ancient
          ancient 17 November 2015 11: 40
          +2
          Quote: IS-80
          Well, what can you say? It’s sad. The oligarchs seem to have bought Skomorokhov


          And you try to read all the articles first, especially in the "Home" section wink

          The very first article - "The site will be better, Poll ...." ... here is the quote (at the very end) - "... because" VO "is registered as a media outlet on the territory of the Russian Federation"

          Now, I hope there are no questions left? wink Whoever orders the music, then dances it ", and who tries to" dance ... against the wind ", then" ends badly ".... bully

          So, as they say in the dill .. "hto does not jump, that .....", that's about the same with us.
          So you, +! but .... everyone chews their own carrots ... and someone with .. "black caviar" lol
        2. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 17 November 2015 17: 45
          +1
          Quote: IS-80
          The oligarchs seem to have bought Skomorokhov.

          Share the novel! laughing we are also "site" laughing laughing
      2. ancient
        ancient 17 November 2015 11: 33
        +8
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        In general - yes, the move is at least strange. First, the rabbit, in a completely unacceptable form, inclines us to a postponement, threatening in case of refusal with all the punishments of heaven. We proudly say: "never!", And then ... we agree


        Hi Andrew! Quite right ... and no matter how much "pathetic" poured out "urya-patriots" into .. "protection ....." nothing will change from this!
        For some reason, the "would-be defenders" cannot understand that the dill has been given another carte blanche for the destruction of Donbass and Lugansk ... as such (I don't even remember Novorossia, but ... as "urya-kali" ... "dust stood", or maybe it was all the same .. "foam" request
        There has never been any HPP, but there was .. "deflection", what explains it ... I can’t say for sure, and I don’t undertake ... but there is so much "information" about this that ....
        Okay, why "crush water in a mortar" .. everything will be as it will be, but it will only get worse.
        Quote from O. Henry .. just shine, +! drinks
      3. Angro Magno
        Angro Magno 17 November 2015 16: 45
        +5
        Greetings, Andrew.
        Unfortunately, many HPP witnesses took the phrase pr guarantees as if the word of the western guaranteeers was flint and someone really counts on it. Absolutely uncritical perception of information. And unbridled faith.
      4. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 17 November 2015 21: 30
        -2
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        It turns out that there is no "cunning plan", but it's a pity!
        And I think that just earned HSP .. laughing
        I'll try to explain. Since the sanctions and the fall in oil prices have very strongly affected the Russian Federation, the Kremlin is seeking to make peace with the West. Moreover, by the end of the year 16 it is expected that the stash will leak out and will remain only on the "NZ" crying .
        The 1 part of the plan is to bomb ISIS, which will provoke them to a proportional response.
        I mean the terrorist attack in Paris. It does not seem strange. Because for Islamists and Russia belongs to the West.
        Why in France, so it is most problem-free to hold them in it, thanks to the numerous Islamic diaspora and the general disorder of the French. It would be extremely difficult to carry out a terrorist attack similar in scale and resonance in Moscow ..
        Action 2. Moscow calls on together, as in WW II, to kill the igilofascists in their lair. Thanks to the above, the GDP becomes a "handshake". Russia and the West become allies .. drinks And then we can raise the question of lifting the sanctions: "We are chewing allies and fighting a common enemy."
        And about the debt of Ukraine, the Kremlin also gets a good reason to demonstrate to the West its good behavior .. repeat
      5. oracul
        oracul 18 November 2015 08: 23
        0
        What a hangover, dear Andrey, the power on the outskirts is acceptable for the GDP. I can only assume that you have decided it yourself, and I think that sincerely. But alas! The answers must be sought "not from the head, but with the help of the head, in the factors of material production that surround us" (Engels).
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Tambov Wolf
      Tambov Wolf 17 November 2015 14: 12
      19
      Correctly, you counted the deflection to the authors, but the authors haven’t written in vain that Putin is ALWAYS RIGHT with us. Right for raising the retirement age, although now many do not live up to it, right for the fact that the government is ruining everything what can and should not be, right for the fact that his friends Rotenbergs and others like them imposed a tribute on the country, right for the fact that soon an ambulance will have to be called for the loot, right for forgiving everything (debts, spitting, recognition of Russia as an official aggressor), right for the fact that Western radio and media saboteurs are working in the country, right for the fact that thieves and crooks instead of slammers are serving time in Courchevel together with "Martel". Yes, a lot of things comrade is right, the authors They don't write about this, but in vain. After reading the article, I just want to exclaim Gip-Gip-Urya !!!!
  • Kostyar
    Kostyar 17 November 2015 10: 25
    -5
    Duc, the liberal media specifically snatched out of the context, well, it’s clear to the fool - another shah America !!! And for these media provocateurs, the task is to make black white and vice versa !!!
  • revnagan
    revnagan 17 November 2015 11: 23
    12
    Quote: USSR 1971
    And what do you think Putin’s decision should be?

    And so. It was impossible to recognize the Kiev junta in general. And not "partners" ... This is time. Gas, energy resources for Ukraine, on a general basis, at world prices. Only on prepayment from corporations (do not work with the "state").
    Quote: USSR 1971
    And the people, well, directly ran into the desire for default.

    Yes, because this is the default of the Kiev junta. If not a military one, then at least a political collapse The junta should be blamed for anyone. To begin with, declassify them with a default. When Ukrainian candy wrappers cannot be exchanged for currency, none of the ukrokaratels will want to fight for them .Collapse: army, economy, state
    . The Anti-Slavic Terrorist Organization will stall by itself. The "army" will scatter. "And what the hell are you ataman when you do not have a gold reserve?" As Clausewitz said: "The enemy should die not so much from our efforts as from his own overexertion." But no. The junta, of course, is bad, Gunpowder and Rabbit are bastards, but THREE! LYARDS! GREEN! The oligarchs in Russia and in Ukraine are one gang. Although the "default" does not exempt from paying debts. How the money appears, you can Default is the fact that the existing government is not able to effectively manage the country and its economy, and it (the government) needs to be changed urgently.
  • DanSabaka
    DanSabaka 17 November 2015 11: 29
    -3
    Let the owners of Kiev think what to give.

    And what? Did the owners of Kiev have already signed up to guarantee Ukrainian debts? In the meantime, they will not give such guarantees, and there is nothing to say about restructuring ....
    And the benefits of Russia from the default of the outskirts, and indeed doubtful ....
  • Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 17 November 2015 13: 27
    12
    You see Dear. People are not fools, they have no time to delve into (they have work, family, loans, etc.), they can be circled around a finger, once, twice, but they will disbelieve how much you do not zombie. How much deception rope does not curl the whole end will be.
    Dealing with loans initially with a dash!

    To begin with, the money in 2013 was given not to Ukraine and not to Yanukovych, but to Gazprom headed by Mr. Miller. He leaked in the mid-2000s.
    He started selling gas on a take-or-pay basis. but ... what should a buyer do when he doesn't need so much gas and should buy? It is correct to throw it on the stock exchange.
    What happens when a lot is thrown away? - prices are falling. Cheap gas appeared.
    Ukrainians began to shout - drop the price to "market". This is certainly a stretch. the price was cheap out of season and they always wanted. But they have gas storage facilities in which they could collect gas when it is cheap and raise it when it is different. But the storage facilities were occupied by Gazprom for transit. Gazprom did not want to negotiate, but wanted to hold ukrov by the throat to pay.

    How did the strategy end? From 2008 to 2013, Gazprom's capitalization fell from $ 369 billion to $ 83. And Mr. Miller came up with the slogan - I will bring the capitalization to $ 1000 billion! Compare 83 and 1000! Who leaked? Nobody invested in a poorly managed and corrupt enterprise, albeit with a "national treasure".

    In 2013, Gazprom didn’t do very well. Ukrov had worse money to pay for gas.

    How to help Gazprom? Give money from the state budget! So they gave a loan to Ukraine, so that they paid them to Gazprom. Money was given not to Ukraine but to Gazprom. This was directly stipulated when issuing a loan. Here, too, merged (us).

    The money was given to "friend" Yanukovych. And he did not fulfill his obligations. I paid a little and the rest of the cases is unknown where. Promising does not mean getting married. We have such friends ... And we give them. And they throw it. The same Lukashenka not only did not support the anti-sanctions, but also arranged supplies of Belarusian oysters, etc. But why not give it? NOT YOUR OWN STATE. And by the state, by the way, it is public and taken from the people.
    Again leaked.

    Given at 5%, although the rate on similar borrowings in Ukraine was more than 10%. This allowed the deal to be recognized as political. And ... do not accept the warranty on it!
    Again leaked.

    Then Yanukovych in the ass. We could not calculate it? Yes, and Yanukovych, what money would appear? Or the desire to pay the bills?
    Again leaked.
    Yanukovych sheltered.

    Oh yes, this is the "sovereign national debt" guaranteed, must pay. But promising in Europe does not mean getting married either.
    Again leaked.

    A rabbit came and said: This is a bribe to Yanukovych. He out of 3 one yard paid for gas.
    We are the type of noble 1 yard admit we are ready to give. And where the rest he does not know. Take them away from Yanukovych. You can not? Give us Yanukovych, we will take it ourselves and give it to you. I regularly appeared in Novorossiya and heard the “kind speeches” with my own ears.
    Again we leaked.

    We have taken a fundamental position. We won’t go to negotiations! Pay!
    Ukrainians agreed with creditors and in the agreement were forced to indicate that they could not give better conditions to anyone. So they can’t pay us any guarantees do not give. And the guarantors cannot.

    Now what? Well, they will give guarantees. So anyway, they won’t pay. They say that it was a bribe, that there are obligations to other creditors, they say we will pay, but subject to write-offs and installments as others.
    In the best case, they will come up with schemes in which we write off but save face.
    Why pay if we merge again?

    So you don’t need to talk about Tricky Plans or that there’s nowhere to go.

    And the problem is that they lie to us. And this is the main merger of power. Many begin to understand ...
    And annoying deception and not merging.
  • Russian063
    Russian063 18 November 2015 08: 09
    0
    Damn, as this tickling with the USA and Ukraine already tired. DO NOT chtol in a patsansky way out once in a while Putin Obama and Gunpowder. muzzles filled each other and who won - that and the carrot.? Great idea in my opinion ....
  • Yuyuka
    Yuyuka 18 November 2015 17: 05
    0
    And the people, well, directly ran into the desire for default.

    and where does the desire to default? many write about the policy of double standards in debt - to their own and not to theirs, and second, and perhaps even more important - why are these throwing? Why were the gas statements so categorical? and now to my debt? if you wanted to, you could even let go of the brakes and not raise such a wave of misunderstanding of the inconsistency of our policy! Has anyone calculated the reaction to this news ?? It turns out that everyone was specially clocked? to have something to do? Such things should not be brought up to the public at all and there should have been no need to make loud statements about "we will force". THIS GIVES A REASON TO THINK THAT WITH RUSSIA, ANYWAY YOU CAN SOLVE THE ISSUE IN YOUR USE
  • gav6757
    gav6757 20 November 2015 00: 41
    0
    If a ride with guarantees, then this is a big +.
    I don’t think that someone from the West will do it, but we don’t lose anything!
    In any case, Ukraine would not have returned anything, but it could be so ...
    Otherwise, Russia would have to appeal to an international court, etc.
    But this court is similar to our courts, the truth cannot be found there, as the owner says - it will be so !!!
  • Rom14
    Rom14 17 November 2015 06: 28
    30 th
    Calm down and comprehend -Ukraine of Russia should not be a penny. All the loot of America .., Putin is doing it right, especially since even the Russian Economic Stabilization Fund is hidden in the Bank of America ... And all that the wind carries ..., the policy is called.
  • Nitarius
    Nitarius 17 November 2015 06: 56
    +6
    Your mother in DIVISION ....
    1) ENERGOMOST IS NOT READY IN CRIMEA .... People that they believed in RUSSIA. What will quit? no brains at all. Literate strategists sit at the top .. we don’t read!
    2) Donbass and its parts from Ukraine still depend on many things.
    3) No need to live one day ... tomorrow they will return to Russia, and the soul will be that they are just thrown!
    4) There are the same people ... they are not to blame for the power -..... Mu..ki! seized power!
    it will pass. We will replace what is called on our own. But people and x reliable cannot be deceived.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 17 November 2015 07: 11
      -1
      Quote: Nitarius
      Your mother in DIVISION ....
      1) ENERGOMOST IS NOT READY IN CRIMEA ...

      Che for a stupid habit they took to press on the caps. It will stand out from the crowd, whether that desire has appeared.
      1. Yuyuka
        Yuyuka 18 November 2015 17: 22
        -1
        someone stands out so much, and someone tries to teach and "che" repeat
    2. Kuzyakin15
      Kuzyakin15 17 November 2015 08: 04
      29
      Yes, I somehow do not care that the same people live there and that sooner or later they will come to din ...
      They will not come to us, and if they come, then only if the West frankly kicks them off. And again for 20 years to support, to raise the economy and constantly wait for something to be shoved again, such a little knife "in the back
      It’s time to leave this mantra-brothers, fraternal peoples ... How many times have the brothers kicked us? One hundred what will happen to their souls is that they DROPPED them, and what’s in our souls that they threw us, nobody cares?
      Still try to instill in us, as the Germans, guilty feelings of 100 years for their maidan.
      They didn’t say they didn’t hold back.
      We all want good in our country and now, without looking at the "Slavic brothers".
      1. Yuyuka
        Yuyuka 18 November 2015 17: 18
        0
        They will not come to us already, and if they do, it will only come if the West openly kicks them.

        Those who wanted to - came, and the rest ... even the relatives of many friends, to put it mildly, do not like Russia. Have they stopped feeding them with cookies ?? And where will the American "friends" of Ukraine go? it's time to leave the illusion that they will return. You don't need to keep them, they are just neighbors, and there is no need to crawl to them with your arms. Donbass to protect - in any case, they are with us, they will not be able to forgive Ukraine and will not forget for a long time, but the rest ... They still need to mature to something ... they themselves do not yet know, therefore they bark at us how baltics. The Syrians have become closer to us now, or rather we are to them - isn't it strange ?? So brotherhood by blood is not in the first place now - like with bad relatives, let alone meet, I don't want to remember ...
    3. TVM - 75
      TVM - 75 17 November 2015 09: 28
      -2
      Ukraine is our neighbor. Trashy, but there will be no other. And to disperse the squabble to stabbing is not worth it. Then it will be bad for everyone, both sinful and righteous. They make a monster from Russia, but this step shows that we are friendly and ready to make concessions. And now Ukraine and its owners will have to portray integrity. The ball is on their side. Rulers change, but the spirit of relationships remains. And what will happen when the owners throw away Ukraine, as used ... It will remain our neighbor. bad but a neighbor. And let the owners now take care of their image.
      1. Kuzyakin15
        Kuzyakin15 17 November 2015 10: 26
        13
        You know, my neighbor kicked the door for a long time, and said with a hangover that he didn’t remember and asked for a sober hangover. In the end, I beat him with a drunken beam on his door (metal), so he did not forget, and now he even gives way to my cat when he enters the porch (though the bastard doesn’t tell him hello).
        And so it’s rude, rude, crap and immediately demands a loan ... without return.
        (And to hell with us such relatives?)
      2. mike_z
        mike_z 17 November 2015 10: 30
        +8
        Quote: TVM - 75
        Ukraine is our neighbor. Trashy, but there will be no other.

        Quote: Kuzyakin15
        but the spirit of the relationship remains.

        I would like to believe that the neighbor will change his mind, relations will improve, the spirit will remain ... I would like, but I do not think and do not believe it. They will not improve and will not stay. In any case, during our lifetime. Too far gone. And it’s not our fault, there’s nothing to sprinkle ourselves with ashes. We need to think about our country, and not about the neighbor. And believe now that the great Ukrainians will again be our good neighbors will only lay a mine under our children. The mine will explode and our children will spit on our graves. You can’t trust your neighbors. And only business relationships should be built with them, as with all other distant and close ones. No preferences! Polite business mutually beneficial relationship. But not fraternal, so that later it would not be a shame.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  • ArcanAG
    ArcanAG 17 November 2015 07: 21
    15
    Quote: Gavril
    All the debts of Ukraine are bad, so why do we continue to give them?


    What loans did we provide to Ukraine after the Maidan?

    Quote: Gavril
    It’s boiling simply, you can’t shout at all Putin’s decisions, no matter how patriotic you are! Looking at black, we must say that it is black!


    That is why it is necessary to give information incompletely / in a distorted form, so that later they yell about Putinslill.

    In this particular case, Putin suggested that leading Western countries or organizations take on guarantees for Ukraine’s debt and in this case defer payments (Ukraine itself will not repay the debt in any case).

    If they, the West, take guarantees, then within three years we receive money. They, in turn, receive questions from their citizens - why the hell did you assume bad debts?

    If leading Western countries and institutions refuse to take guarantees, then they publicly declare that they do not believe in the restoration of the Ukrainian economy.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 17 November 2015 09: 10
      16
      Quote: ArcanAG
      If they, the West, take guarantees,

      Oh I don’t know, I don’t know! Yanukovych was also given guarantees by Western partners. So what? The next day, a coup, and the guarantors are silent in a rag and did not rock the boat. As if the same were not there.
      Although, if I’m not mistaken, this decision was announced by the GDP after meeting with Obama. Have you agreed?
      1. Tambov Wolf
        Tambov Wolf 17 November 2015 14: 21
        +6
        I read your comment and there was not a very good idea that we are controlled from the same body as Ukraine.
        1. Yuyuka
          Yuyuka 18 November 2015 17: 29
          0
          I read your comment and there was not a very good idea that we are controlled from the same body as Ukraine.

          the question of the price - after the "Mistrals" Poroshenko banned even shooting from small arms and the process went faster, but soon faded again ... although there was a positive in relations with France and Germany. We are extras in this Big Game ...
  • tomket
    tomket 17 November 2015 08: 58
    +7
    Quote: Gavril
    It’s boiling simply, you can’t shout at all Putin’s decisions, no matter how patriotic you are! Looking at black, we must say that it is black!

    One gets the impression that the authors okromya money do not need anything. The purpose of this in life is money, money, money! Here they are with all understanding to such steps. I consider this move similar to the Munich agreements. Instead of strangling reptiles in every possible way, Putin conducts all kinds of treaties and negotiations.
  • Homo
    Homo 17 November 2015 09: 21
    +2
    Quote: Gavril
    Looking at black, we must say that it is black!

    Only before that take off your sunglasses, otherwise they thicken the blackness! bully
  • The comment was deleted.
  • guzik007
    guzik007 17 November 2015 09: 21
    20
    All debts of Ukraine are bad ...

    Yeah, of course, like, Maxim died, so hr .. with him. Remember: Egypt's debts are irrecoverable ... Cuba's debts are irrecoverable, Iraq's debts are irrecoverable ... etc. Only this is money earned by US, the people, and not taken by those in power from a personal money-box. Why does others have their own law? Why, along with forgiveness towards "partners", is the tightening of tax screws in relation to their own citizens? Forgiven-restructured external debts, throw the carrot, well, at least forgive your own pensioners, for example, debts for housing and communal services. or finally introduce food credit cards, the idea of ​​which has been around for six months.
    Speech can be right from above - yes, you can’t get far on bare patriotism
    1. Yuyuka
      Yuyuka 18 November 2015 17: 33
      0
      Why, along with forgiveness towards "partners", is the tightening of tax screws in relation to their own citizens? Forgiven-restructured external debts, throw the carrot, well, at least forgive your own pensioners, for example, debts for housing and communal services. or finally introduce food credit cards, the idea of ​​which has been around for six months.
      Speech can be right from above - yes, you can’t get far on bare patriotism


      it is not good to voice other people's thoughts repeat but seriously - I also say this all the time that the moral damage from this is not even a decision, a statement - much more! it’s not a matter of money, but in relation to your own and others! hi
  • Poppy
    Poppy 17 November 2015 09: 46
    +5
    no one gives them
    there’s just a debt and problems with his return
    and here Putin put the Westerners in a stalemate: either they guarantee a return and give this money themselves or have to admit that Ukraine is in full priest - both options are worse - classic two-move mate

    the Westerners so wanted Russia to feed the Ukrainians, and Putin forced them to feed the Ukrainians themselves, harshly and consistently - the Westerners have already paid for gas, now they will pay the Khokhlyatsky debts
  • avdkrd
    avdkrd 17 November 2015 10: 58
    +3
    Quote: Gavril
    All the debts of Ukraine are bad, so why do we continue to give them? It’s boiling simply, you can’t shout at all Putin’s decisions, no matter how patriotic you are! Looking at black, we must say that it is black!

    but in this case, the author is right, and it is far from a fact whether the West will provide guarantees. Rather, they will even refuse, since the bank guarantee is the same money as the state one. bonds and it is unrealistic to get away from payments on these guarantees. I would say that VVP has put the "partners" in a very difficult situation. The decision makers on guarantees in a year will have to explain the basis of their confidence in the solvency of 404, while reports on the complete insolvency of Ukraine are already on their tables. I am sure that all assurances about the expected growth of Ukraine's GDP will be replaced by whining about the impossibility of providing such guarantees. However, any option is acceptable for us, the West will remain in the red, and so and so. Simply in one case there will be material losses, in the other - reputation losses.
  • bhdir1946
    bhdir1946 17 November 2015 10: 59
    +3
    When they decided to give a loan to Yanukovych (they signed against the Britons' guarantees), Putin (himself!) Explained that it was according to a different scheme, under the guarantee of British jurisprudence and much more. The question is whether the money will return to the Country, or in a few years "I'm sorry." these funds are already (?) included in the 2016 budget (?). And just in case, re-read Putin's "promises" over the past couple of years, you will see how he and his assistants "manage." The country does not need enemies when there are so many "hurray patriots "
    1. hrapon
      hrapon 17 November 2015 18: 26
      -1
      Quote: bhdir1946
      When Yanukovych (signed under the guarantee of the Britons) decided to give a loan,



      About Britt's guarantees - what is the new training manual from the State Department?
  • Shpagolom
    Shpagolom 17 November 2015 12: 39
    +9
    ..... I imagine how many debtors in the Russian Federation, they dream that the state would deal with them as with Ukraine, Cuba, Libya, and so on sad
  • OlegLex
    OlegLex 17 November 2015 19: 51
    +1
    You know, when Vesti received information about the proposal of our First, my wife also told me Why we forgive and how much we can, and I brought her the same arguments as the author only added that in my opinion this is a very competent move, tactically verified withdrawal self-declared accusations of spreading poverty in Ukraine, and bringing it to default. You do not believe that America and Europe will agree to be guarantors of this debt, and I do not believe, and the First does not believe, and when November 30 comes, we will, with a clear conscience, begin to twist the debtor's hands.
  • Petr7
    Petr7 17 November 2015 20: 33
    0
    Quote: Gavril
    All debts of Ukraine are irrecoverable

    From this we dance and redirect these debts to the West. Is it not clear?
  • Igluxnumx
    Igluxnumx 17 November 2015 22: 29
    0
    But Putin simply does not consider Ukraine a cut off slice. She just temporarily drifted toward the West. So, to give it away for good? Yes, millions of Russians live there! Give up? But here the return of the Ruins to the Russian coast should occur exclusively voluntarily and not with the money of Russia! And this is not an easy procedure! Listening to the message about the restructuring of debt to Ukraine, I was also close to disappointment, but only until the proposal was made to the West to vouch for Ukraine! This is genius! You have to answer for the bazaar !!! Now I wonder how the West will get out? To refuse - to lose face, to agree - will have to pay for the Ruin! Zugzwang!
  • oracul
    oracul 18 November 2015 08: 06
    0
    It is strange that as if everyone except you does not understand this. Well, they said - black, then what? Restructuring restructuring discord. Dill not only insisted on it, but demanded to write off part of the debt, recognizing it as commercial. We did not go for it. It is also clear that Putin was asked to meet Independence, and he did not just take it and offer it to please the West. It is necessary to gain time to solve many and much more complex problems - this is more than obvious, but it is clear that not everyone.
  • spiriolla-45
    spiriolla-45 18 November 2015 13: 00
    0
    It has long been clear that dill is not going to return money. Our generosity is also clear when they did not demand early repayment. We would have twisted all one shish, and so at least played in the nobility, in public. You can understand Putin, he is trying to at least something to fuck with a black sheep, because he understands that in the courts of Europe nothing shines for us.
  • Sterlya
    Sterlya 18 November 2015 16: 17
    -1
    Quote: Gavril
    All the debts of Ukraine are bad, so why do we continue to give them? It’s boiling simply, you can’t shout at all Putin’s decisions, no matter how patriotic you are! Looking at black, we must say that it is black!

    I don’t understand either. Why did they give this loan, knowing in advance that this, apart from hemorrhoids, does little to Russia? How to tie ukrov? Was it clear that common sense no longer rolls there? Then they were supposed to get another 15 lard. America 5 lard bought khozlovi turned them into an enemy of Russia, just invested wisely, though the devil. (my opinion)
    And the author of that article was simply not a good person, without deliberately writing about the circumstances of the decision of GDP. I already apologized for my koment. But, the first koment was written based on the information received from that article
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 18 November 2015 18: 13
    0
    Quote: Gavril
    It’s boiling simply, you can’t shout at all Putin’s decisions, no matter how patriotic you are!

    so it’s true, but we don’t know even one percent, but we reason as if we know all 200
  • Nick
    Nick 18 November 2015 18: 48
    0
    Quote: Gavril
    Looking at black, we must say that it is black!

    But what do you yourself say in black and white? Or are you reading diagonally?
  • bootlegger
    bootlegger 19 November 2015 10: 24
    0
    Why do we care about this default? Only moral satisfaction and a lot of problems.
    If the consequences of default are what we expect and the IMF will stop financing Ukraine, then what will we get from there primarily in the form of a reaction?
    The first is the suspension of gas transit to the EU due to its theft and multibillion-dollar losses. But we are not so naive and do not think that Ukraine will refuse to take gas because of such a trifle as the lack of money to pay for it? Now they just keep themselves in control since the IMF feeds them, and what will happen when they have nothing to lose?
    The second is the likely cessation of electricity supply to Crimea.
    Well, the refugee problem for a snack. No one doubts that they will flood the tripled country with a triple stream?
    So maybe Putin is not so wrong if he tries to postpone the default for several years and during this time solve the problem of gas transit and power supply of Crimea?
  • dmitrich
    dmitrich 17 November 2015 06: 40
    33
    Our president is not trying to save Ukraine. He saves only his country.
    Has he forgiven the debt to Ukraine? No! He offered an installment plan guaranteed by the European Union and Western banks, i.e. he simply offered to take the Ukrainian debt to the Western "partners"))). Ukraine will not repay - the guarantors will pay off. If they do not give a guarantee, there will be no installments!
    Russia must return its money in any way!
    1. demos1111
      demos1111 17 November 2015 07: 19
      +4
      So, then everything seems to be correct, but bad at heart. And if you look at sweat from a different angle, well, Ukraine will not give Russia a debt, you still need to buy gas, winter is nearby, money has been transferred for gas, and you yourself, on account of debt, like that.
      1. Egoza
        Egoza 17 November 2015 10: 15
        +4
        Quote: demos1111
        Well, Ukraine will not give Russia a debt, it’s still necessary to buy gas, winter is nearby

        Not! We don't get your gas! “Finally we got rid of Russian gas,” Yatsenyuk said. Well, yes, the main consumer of gas, the economic sector, has passed away, and the people - well, they will take it from the people until they scrape together to pay off the debt.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 17 November 2015 10: 43
      +2
      Quote: Dmitry
      Russia must return its money in any way!

      Putin took another step that no one expected from him. Smart and tough in content.

      Pants not torn?
      Even before this step, the Ukrainian authorities were somehow worried about this debt, and now they’ll definitely beat him.
      It would be better if this money was invested in the development of the electronic industry and not played in a superpower.

      The smartest and greatest man in the history of the Russian state once said: "You need great upheavals, and I need a great Russia."

      Ironically, Stolypin was also killed in Kiev.
  • Voha_krim
    Voha_krim 17 November 2015 06: 57
    +8
    Quote: USSR 1971
    How to end talking too early.

    How the West, setting traps for Russia, wants to "bend" it, but Putin will get out anyway!
  • GOgaRu
    GOgaRu 17 November 2015 07: 44
    -9
    The song "Putin leaked" is already pretty boring, it's more about "echo" or "rain", they have an informational holiday there about this.

    I'm tired of it, of course. Enough already "merge"! And he "merges" and "merges" everything ...
    1. GOgaRu
      GOgaRu 17 November 2015 08: 31
      11 th
      The Patriots are awake. Now the authors will be supported.
      1. Homo
        Homo 17 November 2015 09: 23
        +9
        Quote: GOgaRu
        Now the aftors will be supported.

        Judging by this expression "foxes" need to wipe the snot first!
  • CONTROL
    CONTROL 17 November 2015 08: 11
    +2
    Quote: USSR 1971
    Russia has adapted to the circumstances of how to try to make an initially bad debt repayable or to get a more acceptable option of communication with the West in case of non-payment if there are no guarantees on their part.

    The trouble is not in delaying Ukraine's credit debt, and not in "communicating with partners."
    She's a trouble! - the fact that all this is taking place against the background of rising prices, creeping inflation, rising utility rates ... and other "pleasant" moments of our life, talentedly organized and paid for (by the way, with their own blood) by Ukraine and those very "Western partners "which are stuffed into the guarantors of debt repayment ... That's what is really, really bitter!
    ... And what is the "money" of these "debts"? virtual rubbish ... numbers are not even on paper - on magnetic or optical "carriers" ... What is behind them, this "money" - this is really important! And here Putin and the Ministry of Finance cannot even be understood - it is necessary! ...
  • user
    user 17 November 2015 10: 03
    +7
    unless December 20 is D-Day for Donbass and Crimea.


    Donbass to support the land borders, and Crimea in December should be connected to electricity. This "must" has a position and a surname, and if you do not play in democracy, then they will connect. Therefore, scare Poroshenko about D-Day, if they want exacerbations (or rather, if they force them), then about these 3 billion, no one will say "the separatists provoked", but this endless feeding of Ukraine is already tired, you better look at least how now all state employees are salaries are cut (in Moscow, most likely, they do not even know), all allowances are removed. And it's time to stop looking good on the world stage, and try to look (well, at least 3) in your Russian Federation.
  • Zefr
    Zefr 17 November 2015 10: 08
    10
    There is no reason to postpone debt repayment. Here their own citizens are evicted from their apartments for debts, and Ukraine, therefore, "can't" touch. If you are so brave and legitimate, demand a debt, and from them too!
    The fact that Crimea is supplied with electricity is not the merit of the Ukrainian government, but the selfish interest of the owners of energy capacities. As delivered, they will deliver.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Slavin
    Slavin 17 November 2015 12: 07
    +7
    Forgiving debts is beautiful, of course, but it’s better to do it from our own pockets, WE WILL NOT FORGET IT IS SIMPLY, this was the position of many of our important gentlemen and ministries, we do not defend our positions, justification of anything could be interest, leaked and I’m not an echo of rain
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Turkir
    Turkir 17 November 2015 15: 41
    +1
    Let the censor write anything

    Don't you know that the most educated public gathers on "Censor", which even understands the difference between the words "preference" and "pornography"?
    The readers of "Censor" are also able to jump. And long and high.
    sad
  • serg 21
    serg 21 17 November 2015 21: 06
    +4
    The conversation is not about whether the Outskirts will repay the debt or not. It is clear to the hedgehog that there is nothing to give back. But why bang his heel on the chest, saying that we will take everything and return. The result is a "Rabbit" in chocolate and Putin, as always ........
  • AM10101946
    AM10101946 18 November 2015 08: 45
    0
    Yes, everything is correct, we must wait for the West to respond to this proposal, my personal opinion on this-west will not give any guarantees for the debt of Ukraine, they know MATHEMATICS with arithmetic very well !!!
  • Persistent
    Persistent 18 November 2015 18: 52
    -1
    There were no comments in that article. Any loan is insured !!!! Therefore, this one was insured !!! Vova is far from goof !!! A hawkler very coolly shook up the screamers of the West about restructuring the debt of 3 lard candy wrappers !!!
  • Finches
    Finches 17 November 2015 06: 07
    +9
    The Supreme does what he sees fit and I believe him! I believe that he does so exclusively in the interests of Russia, therefore, there is no need to strongly advocate, but as a citizen and person I have my own opinion on this and I see no reason to change it today! I still think that with such an under-state as Ukraine is, where a nationalist junta came to power through a military coup, it should speak only from one position - the position of force! It is necessary to crush it: by military, diplomatic, political, economic methods! I believe that my method is also fully consistent with the national interests of our country!
    1. Darkoff
      Darkoff 17 November 2015 07: 10
      +4
      I support! What the president has in his head and how much information he owns, we are not supposed to know or even guess by rank! Even one percent.
      Our business is to sit on the sofa and knock letters. Engage in politics - not play Chapaya. You won’t wave your sword here. I’m sure that Putin never forgets that 140 million compatriots are behind him. And that he carefully calculates each step along with a complex of all possible consequences.
      And he makes decisions guided by these considerations, even to the detriment of his ratings.
      1. subbtin.725
        subbtin.725 17 November 2015 07: 57
        -1
        Quote: DarkOFF
        . Engage in politics - not play Chapaya. You won’t wave your sword here. I’m sure that Putin never forgets that behind him 140 million compatriots. And that he carefully calculates every step, along with a set of all possible consequences.

        A small analytical note: "As of January 1, 2015, according to Rosstat, there were +146 267 288 XNUMX permanent residents. "
        Quote: DarkOFF
        And he makes decisions guided by these considerations, even to the detriment of his ratings.

        Here I agree with you. +
      2. Belousov
        Belousov 17 November 2015 08: 47
        +6
        Well, it's just worth deleting the Russians out of these 140 million, because our state does nothing in their defense, the titular nation has long been in the position of a national minority in its own country. Putin will act exclusively in the interests of a handful of his homies in the Ozero cooperative and colleagues in the KGB / FSB, since the safety of their money in Western banks and offshore accounts is much more important for him than the standard of living, for example, of pensioners in Russia.
      3. Yuri from Volgograd
        Yuri from Volgograd 17 November 2015 11: 54
        +4
        Quote: DarkOFF
        we are not supposed to know by rank
        Our business is to sit on the sofa and knock letters.

        Vysotsky's theme song was "Big oooo giraffe, he knows better" ...
        Do you remember the meaning of the song?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Yuri from Volgograd
      Yuri from Volgograd 17 November 2015 07: 50
      18
      Quote: Finches
      The Supreme does what he sees fit and I believe him! I believe that he does so exclusively in the interests of Russia

      But after Serdyukov I no longer believe.
      1. fsps
        fsps 17 November 2015 09: 21
        -6
        So they remembered Serdyukov, but what if you read not only the liberals?
        http://alexcrim.livejournal.com/2362862.html
        - something about Serdyukov.
        1. Yuri from Volgograd
          Yuri from Volgograd 17 November 2015 11: 52
          +3
          Quote: fsps
          So they remembered Serdyukov, but what if you read not only the liberals?
          http://alexcrim.livejournal.com/2362862.html
          - something about Serdyukov.

          To assess the benefit of Serdyukov, you do not have to read your liberals.
          The military spoke out a lot about him, a lot of things just happened in the news blocks, investigators dug up a lot of materials.
          In the end, logic is also useful.
    4. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 17 November 2015 11: 47
      +1
      Quote: Finches
      The Supreme does what he sees fit and I believe him!

      Debugging the return of Russian money from Ukraine for an indefinite period?
      Quote: Finches
      I still think that with such an under-state as Ukraine is, where a nationalist junta came to power through a military coup, it should speak only from one position - the position of force! It is necessary to crush it: by military, diplomatic, political, economic methods! I believe that my method is also fully consistent with the national interests of our country!

      And how is this consistent with logic?
  • ArcanAG
    ArcanAG 17 November 2015 06: 56
    +1
    Like Svidomo, especially Svidomo censor last thing.
    To worry about how stupid people will react from a censor to something, one must not respect themselves at all.
  • homedition
    homedition 17 November 2015 08: 11
    0
    Access to the censor is closed "In accordance with the requirements of the law" wink
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 17 November 2015 08: 23
      +1
      Quote: homedition
      Access to the censor is closed "In accordance with the requirements of the law"

      Everything is working.
  • TUNISIA
    TUNISIA 17 November 2015 08: 57
    13
    Gentlemen, I believe that Putin's initiative is much deeper. I will try to explain from my "bell tower".
    What is the restructuring proposal itself in this situation?

    1. This is a demonstrative attempt to "negotiate" with the debtor. If earlier we took a firm position "no negotiations and money on time", now we show the whole world and, first of all, the IMF, that we are ready for dialogue. Why IMF? Because on November 29, the unimaginable can happen in this organization - the charter of this organization will be redrawn under Ukraine. And the likelihood of this is quite high. Attempting to "negotiate" we give them "check" in this particular game. Because the changes to the IMF charter, according to the project, consist in the fact that the IMF will continue to lend to the debtor if he made an attempt to negotiate the debt, but the creditor did not show flexibility. Relatively speaking, if the creditor turned out to be unable to negotiate. So in this situation, so that the rewritten rules do not have any consequences for the Ukrainian debt to us, it is advantageous for us to make Ukraine incapable of negotiation as a debtor. And here we pass to point 2 of my reflections.

    2. The proposed restructuring is obviously tougher than the conditions that Yaytsenyuk and Yareska insist on. This means that the chances that they will agree to our terms, especially after their harshest statements to the Ukrainians (Yaytsenyuk looked like flint at this moment), are null. After all, if they nevertheless agree, it will be a political loss before the "occupier", and on the same "censor", they will hear it a day or two after the Pukan salutes to relieve themselves.

    3. Putin was reinsured against the possible consent of Ukraine to our conditions by requesting financial guarantees from Western countries. Looking at the “creaking” of money allocated by Europe and the United States in much smaller amounts, the likelihood that they will “fit in” for Ukraine by 3 billion is also almost zero.

    What conclusion can be drawn from this? Putin's plan for the proposed restructuring is as follows according to the priorities of the issues to be resolved:
    1. Against the background of the image of the "aggressor", acquire a different, opposite image in the foreign policy arena.
    2. Still, drive Ukraine into default (so that there isn’t enough money for the army), but either Ukraine itself (didn’t agree to our soft conditions) or the West, which didn’t “fit in” for this debt with its money, could be blamed for this.
    3. The probability of default is closer to 100%, eliminating the influence of the political commitment of the IMF on the situation.
    4. If suddenly everyone agrees on everything, then guarantee the return of credit to the treasury of Russia.
    5. To help the "brotherly" people to go through difficult economic times.

    That’s somehow how I see it.
    1. Oprychnik
      Oprychnik 17 November 2015 10: 01
      +1
      Please note how the GDP very subtly and elegantly, just mockingly prodrolled all partners (Ukraine, the EU, the USA and the IMF):

      "Since our partners are confident that the creditworthiness of the Ukrainian state will grow, and we have no reason to doubt that we will receive even three billion next year, there are no concerns among our partners to come up with a guarantee on this loan."
      Aerobatics!
      1. Jack-b
        Jack-b 17 November 2015 10: 33
        0
        Quote: Oprychnik
        Aerobatics!

        Judging by the cons, not everyone is able to appreciate.
        1. Victor-M
          Victor-M 17 November 2015 11: 52
          -1
          Quote: Jack-B
          Do you (in the West) think that everything will be salokoladokolno in Ukraine next year? No problem. We are ready not just to wait, but even how: one billion a year. And YOU guarantee it to us.

          They just appreciated, and therefore minus. They are so far away. laughing
          1. hrapon
            hrapon 17 November 2015 18: 32
            -1
            Quote: Victor-M
            Quote: Jack-B
            Do you (in the West) think that everything will be salokoladokolno in Ukraine next year? No problem. We are ready not just to wait, but even how: one billion a year. And YOU guarantee it to us.

            They just appreciated, and therefore minus. They are so far away. laughing


            Imagine a teenager masturbating who is told, "Read it like Dostoevsky." Do you think he will dry his hands and take up the book? I am begging you...
    2. Kasym
      Kasym 17 November 2015 10: 27
      +7
      Actually, it's worth remembering the history of the issue. Moscow promised Yanukovych 15 billion soft loans. Three billion at once (which happened), the rest on schedule. The Maidan took place. The West has promised almost 40-odd. Then the Kiev authorities took a bite, signed an "association" with Europe. Well, those, as always, "threw" - they did not give the first 17 billion.
      And how many such empty promises did the West give us? It's time for all of us to learn this lesson. They promise, then they will demand to fulfill their "orders", and in the end we are losers with empty pockets. We must first of all invest in each other. For example, Kazakhstan is interested in Russian ports, the Russian Federation is interesting (presumably) in the agricultural sector of its more southern neighbor. So we have where to reliably build savings. And pragmatics should be learned from the West.
      ANOTHER interesting point. Why three years, and not a year or two (for the EU + US, it's a penny)? I think this period gives the GDP to the Kiev authorities to correct their behavior. In three years, both the bridge and the energy flow to Crimea will be established by the Russian Federation. And then the ukroligarchs will run into the full. Although it seems to me that in three years the situation will be different - the current authorities of Kiev will not survive. On the other side of this moment. If it is difficult in Ukraine (disintegration), then Moscow (as one of the main creditors) will be able to join the management of the "wild field". In short, the more Kiev owes more, the more Moscow can influence any events in the Square. Especially considering the situation in Donbass. hi
    3. 15ghost10
      15ghost10 17 November 2015 10: 53
      -1
      I fully support. I left a comment yesterday under yesterday's article torn out of meaning regarding this loan. You said it right.
  • Vend
    Vend 17 November 2015 10: 01
    13
    Quote: Gavril
    Let the author read the censor somehow, they have a vyser salute about "where are they going to", "but they still owe us", in short, everything for which no one likes Ukrainians, but the truth is where we share?

    This is only part of the mosaic. APU maneuvers on the border with Crimea are another part. Those who talk about guarantees, I advise you to remember the Mistral. And the paper, and there were guarantees. And also I advise you to remember the deprivation of all Russian athletes of the opportunity to participate in sports, not those who were caught, but all. As well as sanctions that do not lift, but are going to extend. What guarantees can we talk about? This restructuring is already hitting Russia and still hitting. There were the best moves that either overlooked.
  • marlin1203
    marlin1203 17 November 2015 10: 39
    -4
    In fact, from the very beginning it was clear that Ukraine did not want anything, and most importantly could not give Russia. And Putin’s exchange of installments for Western guarantees of repayment of the Ukrainian loan is the only real solution to the problem.
    1. Vend
      Vend 17 November 2015 10: 42
      +3
      Quote: marlin1203
      In fact, from the very beginning it was clear that Ukraine did not want anything, and most importantly could not give Russia. And Putin’s exchange of installments for Western guarantees of repayment of the Ukrainian loan is the only real solution to the problem.

      No, not the only one. It was possible to defer payment, and to demand the gas transmission system of Ukraine as a security. Namely, the territory through which the gas transmission system passes is in the possession of Russia, with the right to profit, before paying off the debt. Is this not the best move?
      1. marlin1203
        marlin1203 17 November 2015 19: 01
        0
        "The territory of the gts of Ukraine for the use of Russia ...". Dear Wend, can you hear yourself? This is not even fantasy, but something even more unrealizable. And where did you get the idea that it is possible to demand a pledge if it was not timely agreed upon when buying Ukrainian bonds? And if not for this move by Putin, then we would have received a burden with Ukraine's moratorium on payments, recognizing this debt as a commercial one and transferring the case to a protracted process in the Helsinki arbitration ... i.e. "from a dead donkey's ears" ... Something like this.
      2. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 17 November 2015 22: 30
        0
        Quote: Wend
        It was possible to defer payment, and to demand the gas transmission system of Ukraine as a security

        This is if Ukrainians agree that it is unlikely. Ukrainians agree to a restructuring at a discount, that is, in the best case, they can promise a billion
  • 15ghost10
    15ghost10 17 November 2015 10: 45
    +2
    calmly. the censor belongs to Turchinov and you pay attention to the quality of this nonsense. just stupid vysery ukrobotov and similar seams.
  • max702
    max702 17 November 2015 10: 54
    12
    The whole point of the article is that the West will hang on to itself the type of debts and will guarantee their return .. So what if the West will take on their debts? The time will come to return from us and there will be a legion of reasons not to do this! An example? I have them! Mistrals, center in Mulino, German engines for our ships .. Where is everyone? But it was not all bought from the Eurogabon, but contracts were concluded with the most reliable cap countries France and Germany, so what? How did this prevent them from NOT fulfilling these reinforced concrete contracts? it will be the same with money! Mistrals were not given due to possible use against Ukraine, well, Duc and the money will be used to support aggression against Ukraine! And that means we won't give you the hee! If you return Crimea from Donbass, you will leave then and "see" .. So it needs no illusions. MONEY WILL NOT! Only in the first case, there would be a default in the ruind, and in the second, the "partners" would bluntly send us. Now to the default of Ruinda, while no one has written, why is it bad for us? the sooner hunger and cold come in the ruinda, the better! The brains of the population, you look and they will fall into place .. True, the default is extremely unprofitable for our oligarchs spinning multibillion-dollar businesses with the Eurogabon, for example, Gref will not be given loans that he so easily handed out supporting the economy of the ruind (and with it the ATO), Gazprom will get sick when the pipe is covered to Europe, and many other gesheftov will be ordered to live a long time .. Say the light in the Crimea and Donbass will be turned off, Duc had to work! draw lines and not "find out" who will do it and for how much! Tell me straight out BEFORE to default and put in place the ruin .. Not ready, not all the pockets are filled, but the fact that people in Donbass are dying, and in a country with an economy full of seams, this is normal ..
  • ARES623
    ARES623 17 November 2015 13: 08
    -3
    Quote: Gavril
    Let the author read the censor somehow, they have a viper salute about "where will they go",

    And you, well, bought a censor? What a scream! It is better to include your brains periodically.
    1. Gavril
      Gavril 18 November 2015 04: 46
      +1
      Read Learn Brain Switch First
  • Max_Bauder
    Max_Bauder 17 November 2015 15: 31
    -2
    I post in this comment very important information about Putin’s struggle with liberal power. For those who are mistaken that Putin is sovereign and everything that happens inside the country depends on him. Listen carefully to the end.

  • ROD VDVshny
    ROD VDVshny 17 November 2015 19: 14
    -4
    Quote: Gavril
    But really, where do we share it?

    Yesterday, my wife from the TV rushed to me with bulging eyes - ours broke belay RESTRUCTURING! sad
    He preferred to find and listen to the full words of GDP, and appreciated the essence of MINA, ESTABLISHED FOR INDEPENDENCE.
    He looked at VO and was amazed at the statements. Therefore, I did not comment ... at times it was just disgusting to read.
    I didn't expect the article "+" from Skomorokhov ...
  • papas-57
    papas-57 17 November 2015 19: 54
    +2
    It began again: you misunderstood us, you don’t understand anything. Everyone understood everything perfectly. There are three options - ours were blown away (though it is not clear why), someone in Ukraine promised to share with someone in Russia, and finally the most disgusting - ours save the Piglet regime (it’s not clear why, although it can be assumed that someone profits well the conflict of Ukraine with Donetsk and Lugansk). And if someone cares that Ukraine will turn off the power supply to the Crimea and the Donbass, so let's give Ukraine more money to prevent this from happening, there are 25-30 lards, they have 20 bucks of oil each. Maybe then they will give this money back, they keep their word. Unlike our government, which can only shoe its citizens.
  • Nick
    Nick 18 November 2015 18: 45
    0
    Quote: Gavril
    Let the author read the censor somehow, they have a vyser salute about "where are they going to", "but they still owe us", in short, everything for which no one likes Ukrainians, but the truth is where we share?

    Scraps of thoughts. What are you talking about?
  • Koshak
    Koshak 19 November 2015 13: 06
    0
    Quote: Gavril
    Let the author read the censor somehow, they have a vyser salute about "where are they going to", "but they still owe us", in short, everything for which no one likes Ukrainians, but the truth is where we share?

    There was still not enough, to disassemble the censor's excrements here. Yes, and you sing along with them "where do we share?" Either the article was not read, or the gray matter was not enough to comprehend.
  • Awaz
    Awaz 17 November 2015 05: 46
    35
    unfortunately I remain of my opinion. It was a bargain. They put pressure on Russia (even in Putin’s statement, it is visible) and Russia, which two days ago declared that it would not make any concessions on debt, immediately merged. Why not make better concessions to your citizens. I really want to compensate for the fall of the ruble against major currencies. Probably funny, but in '13 I paid 100 euros for an apartment and now I pay 110. Stable, but in rubles it does not seem like that ...
    1. USSR 1971
      USSR 1971 17 November 2015 06: 27
      -5
      I will tell you even more, they may never give this debt at all, the war against our country is going on, the war. And money should not be friends, but enemies. And now, shout at every corner that Russia has been bent? They bent it when for example 9 of May 1945 of the year, it’s far to the bends, Putin or someone else, but one must believe in one’s country.
      Do you think that only readers of the site know that there is no extra money in the country, the rest, including the president, are not aware of this?
      In this situation, the country needs to save face, not jo.u.
      Well, they will personally make you happy, they will say that they did not forgive the debt to Ukraine, what will you or our fellow citizens gain from this? The rent will decrease, the dollar will collapse or will the West give us this money for the defense industry? Not. I say, the war is already underway.

      1. anip
        anip 17 November 2015 08: 01
        22
        Quote: USSR 1971
        In this situation, the country needs to save face, not jo.u.
        Well, they will personally make you happy, they will say that they did not forgive the debt to Ukraine, what will you or our fellow citizens gain from this? The rent will decrease, the dollar will collapse or will the West give us this money for the defense industry? Not. I say, the war is already underway.

        And then let's give Khokhlov billions ... give twenty. Who cares, the war is on. And for our own yet another ruble, we’ll collapse and raise prices.
    2. i80186
      i80186 17 November 2015 06: 32
      +5
      Quote: AwaZ
      It was a bargain. They put pressure on Russia ...

      So bargaining, or did they put pressure? If for example bargaining, then what bargained? And if you pressed what and what? I see you held a candle there. Maybe enlighten? Maybe there they agreed to change the next government in Ukraine in 2016-2018 to the pro-Russian one, with Crimea and sanctions, all issues were resolved, and they would also buy a new line for under 22nm of those. process, yes centers processing Hass pieces five hundred in the appendage? Honestly, where do you even come from? winked
      1. Private Starley
        Private Starley 17 November 2015 06: 44
        11 th
        As for bargaining, the GDP has exchanged Syria for Ukraine, and now the partners think now what to do with this suitcase without a handle, not only does the suitcase without a handle, so it is split apart and a double bottom falls out (sarcasm)
        1. Private Starley
          Private Starley 17 November 2015 08: 16
          -7
          For a better understanding of my thoughts, I’ll say differently ... GDP calculates all its actions ten times ahead ... he voiced the entire current situation back in 2003. Thus, all his actions are aimed at strengthening the position of the Russian Federation. And he is working on all fronts, both in Ukraine and in Syria and the Arctic and the Kuril Islands. it was not just that he started (and it was in Almaty at the summit in 2001) together with N.A. Nazarbayev the customs union. So I’m not talking about exchanging something for something ... I’m talking about looking at the big picture ...
        2. Jack-b
          Jack-b 17 November 2015 10: 41
          +4
          There was no bargaining in this context. If you look at the example with a suitcase, then most likely it should be considered differently. The West tried to pick up the suitcase from Putin, and he almost succeeded. But the evil Putin managed to tear the handle off the suitcase. And now he makes fun and mocks the west.
      2. Awaz
        Awaz 17 November 2015 17: 07
        -2
        not you not I do not know the intricacies of politics. In Putin's statement, if anyone heard him, the phrase that the IMF and the United States in particular pressed on Putin and the Russian authorities in general, in terms of the Ukrainians' debt, offered options, but hardly offered "candy". And no matter how Delyagin and everyone else sang, it all looks like an inconsistent and stupid concession.
        I UNDERSTAND sometimes have to compromise,
        but compromises are mutually beneficial actions. I still think that a compromise could have been made if the junta had stopped fighting and started trying to somehow equip a peaceful life. But in this case, the released money will continue to kill civilians of New Russia.
        Tell me, why is the 22 nm line in Russia? For Russia at the moment, hundreds are enough. To produce something technologically advanced, at the highest level, you need fucking volumes. In the near future, except for the military commissariat, there will be no increase in domestic demand. And for the military, stability and reliability are more important.
    3. woron333444
      woron333444 17 November 2015 07: 51
      +3
      Yesterday the news was: Restructuring under the guarantee of the IMF and the USA, that is, they will pay for Ukrainians if they are not calculated. Words GDP.
      You need to watch the performance, and not listen to gossip in the internet
      I wrote about it yesterday, I repeat
      1. Yuri Y.
        Yuri Y. 17 November 2015 08: 16
        0
        Quote: woron333444
        You need to watch the performance, and not listen to gossip in the internet

        Right It was immediately clear that the GDP wanted to hang up payment of an independent srach to the west, i.e. not at our expense. We will have to deal with Ukraine more, but to make it desirable to pay the West. But it may still not agree, well, their selfish interests will be seen. And we kept a sympathetic look, damn politics.
      2. Gardamir
        Gardamir 17 November 2015 08: 32
        11
        guaranteed by the IMF and the USA
        Thank you laugh
      3. Awaz
        Awaz 17 November 2015 17: 11
        +3
        where and when did you see that the USA and its sixes fulfilled some kind of obligations to Russia or the USSR. Of course, they can even promise something to the public, but whether they will fulfill the promises is a very interesting question.
  • Riv
    Riv 17 November 2015 05: 46
    18
    I don’t understand ... Who guaranteed to whom and what? To forgive debts is a smart and cruel move? Authors, have some tea.
    1. larand
      larand 17 November 2015 06: 10
      35
      Quote: Riv
      I don’t understand ... Who guaranteed to whom and what? To forgive debts is a smart and cruel move? Authors, have some tea.


      Authors need to scratch their heads after tea and think that the guarantees of the West are worthless. Let us recall at least not the expansion of NATO. We, who are "from under the flag of the USSR", remember this and still remember that for all the time after the bourgeois coup in the Russian Federation, the "democratic tsars" did not ask the opinion of the people on any issue. They apparently forgot that they were not chosen by God, but only officials hired by the people for work.
      1. i80186
        i80186 17 November 2015 06: 39
        +1
        Quote: larand
        After tea, the authors need to scratch their nape and think that Western guarantees are worthless. Recall, at least, not the expansion of NATO.

        Well yes. And why is the IMF discredited against the backdrop of the creation by China, with our participation, of a similar structure? Here we are talking about trillions, and not about billions, as it were. laughing
      2. domokl
        domokl 17 November 2015 06: 42
        +3
        Yes, scratched already. and strong enough. You write that there are no guarantees. So what? turn on a little thought.
        I’m chewing once for especially patriots. There is no money in Ukraine. And not foreseen. The industry is dead. Trade fell only one third this year (domestic). Exports fell by 60% to Russia and 35% to the EU.
        People hate the rabbit and gunpowder with all the fibers of the soul. The IMF gives money only to pay interest.
        In this situation, what would you do to retain power? The only way to start "fighting with Russia" again. You read the statements of the Kiev leaders. Every day someone talks about the withdrawal from the Minsk agreements by the Donbass. A new war is being prepared. And the people's republics have a chance to win this war? Alas, no. 200 thousand fighters on the borders are a force against which the army of the LDNR cannot resist. Army reforms have left many of those who fought in the past year. Trained and trained soldiers came in their place. Only now it is doubtful that they will fight in the same way as the militia. When the devil himself is not a brother.
        Putin saves the Donbass from the war. Saves people. And we will take the money anyway.
        1. ramzes1776
          ramzes1776 17 November 2015 07: 40
          12
          How is the Ukrainians no money ??? And 6 lard in the little capsule accumulated yaresko due to IMF loans? And the military budget of the Bandera Army for 2016 is more than 3 lard greens. And the profit from the sale of goods to Russia? And they will still tell us that kaklov don’t have money. Guarantees when buying Eurobonds give shaving, so what other guarantees do we need.
          1. Riv
            Riv 17 November 2015 07: 45
            +5
            This is not the case. You won’t be full of guarantees. Need loot, but where is it? In the bright future?
            1. Stanislas
              Stanislas 17 November 2015 10: 10
              -2
              Quote: Riv
              Need loot, but where is it?
              Have you tried to work?
        2. GOgaRu
          GOgaRu 17 November 2015 07: 58
          +4
          Quote: domokl
          Putin saves the Donbass from the war. Saves people. And we will take the money anyway.

          November 16, 2015. The Armed Forces General Staff issued a final warning to OSCE observers. “We warned OSCE observers that the possible return of weapons to the front line is very real.” The Ukrainian Ministry of Defense issued a warning to the OSCE that if the situation on the front escalates even more, that the security forces will return heavy weapons to the contact line in Donbass, the source said the representative of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Seleznev. “The monitoring mission has already received a warning from us about the possible return to the forefront of armaments if the situation continues to escalate. We are ready to return the artillery that has already been withdrawn in accordance with the Minsk agreements, ”said Seleznev on the air of 112 Ukraine channel.
        3. atalef
          atalef 17 November 2015 08: 03
          +8
          Quote: domokl
          In this situation, what would you do to retain power? The only way is to start "at war with Russia" again.

          Hey . sash.
          I think it will be like no one in the world is interested.
          it seems that by January 1, the border should be closed, then the Donbass will go under the control of Ukraine and its responsibility (pensions, restoration, etc. 0 - they don’t have money, and it’s kind of like the end of the conflict, but how can the poor pretend to ask for money?
          Therefore, the database resumes. definitely. IMHO.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 17 November 2015 08: 08
            +2
            Quote: atalef
            Therefore, the database resumes. definitely. IMHO.

            Sanya, and who doubts this then. Russia will not stand aside and will have to start all over again from the beginning. We have brotherly love lol
          2. domokl
            domokl 17 November 2015 08: 29
            -4
            Our namesake with a brush hi The fact of the matter is that now the war for Donbass will be lost.
            1. atalef
              atalef 17 November 2015 08: 39
              0
              Quote: domokl
              Our namesake with a brush hi The fact of the matter is that now the war for Donbass will be lost.

              Yes, Syria is a new trend and it seems more important
        4. Kuzyakin15
          Kuzyakin15 17 November 2015 08: 11
          13
          And how does he save Donbass from war?
          What did Yaytsenyuk and Poroshenko swear oathly that they would dismiss the army if Russia deferred the payment of its debt?
          Explain!
        5. FiremamRescueS
          FiremamRescueS 17 November 2015 08: 29
          -7
          I agree to all 100% !!! Although I think that for the deferral of payments, the GDP has knocked out not only and not so much a guarantee from the West, it is not necessary to count on them, but something more significant.
        6. Gardamir
          Gardamir 17 November 2015 08: 37
          +4
          Putin saves Donbass from war
          Selling gas. coal, and not only to Krajina? ..
        7. The comment was deleted.
        8. Aleksander
          Aleksander 17 November 2015 09: 59
          11
          Quote: domokl
          Putin saves the Donbass from the war.


          Forgiveness of debts ?! Well, the logic! Yes these three billion dollars is annual military budget of Ukrainewhich Russia to her gives.
          As e / energy, coal, oil.
          Russia Gives it all to the murder of the Russian Russian world ....
        9. larand
          larand 17 November 2015 15: 44
          +2
          Quote: domokl
          turn on a little thought.
          I’m chewing once for especially patriots.


          Is it your disadvantage to be a "particularly patriot"? And why do you think you are able to "chew".
          In the film Kin-Dza-Dza there is a great phrase: "You are the smartest here, right? Someone told you this, or did you decide so yourself?"
      3. Kaccad
        Kaccad 17 November 2015 08: 51
        +9
        Western guarantees cost nothing
        good

        But, in this case, they do not need it!
        Remember, as Popandopulo said: "Take it all - I'll print it for myself."
        This is a case, just one of those that even if they have to fulfill their promise, then for them it will REALLY cost nothing. This is for our Central Bank, only currency = money.
  • mirag2
    mirag2 17 November 2015 05: 48
    24
    In 2014, Russian officials stated that negotiations with Ukraine could resume if the debt for gas was fully paid off, while the debt for gas amounted to 4.5 billion accumulated debt + 5.5 billion for unpaid gas from November 2013 to April 2014, i.e. total debt was about 10 billion, which Putin confirmed in October 2014. Ukraine partially repaid the debt, but only by 3 billion (1.45 billion in November 2014 and 1.6 billion in December), which is no more than a third of the total debt.
    The Government of the Russian Federation stated that from April 1, 2015, discounts on Russian gas for Ukraine will cease to apply, and all deliveries will be carried out in strict accordance with the current contract. Before the date of X Novak said that gas supplies to Ukraine will begin regardless of payment of debt.
    Those. Kiev received a discount and, formally, may not pay its debts. In 2014, Russia was going to supply gas to Ukraine at a price of $ 485, while Kiev insisted on 260 and lower. Russia promised that there would be no discounts for Ukraine! As a result, we deliver really cheaper than 260! Directly commissioned by Kiev. There still coincided a drop in energy prices by half, this led to a recount of gas prices, but still.
    In short, the gas Yatsenyuk bent the Russian Federation.
    And I think: why did they allow this? Besides all the enemies in the Russian government, there is only one hope that we are getting off the raw material needle. Now Iran is planning to increase gas production and export, and we are shook pipes, and our importers take gas through stepping on their own throat ... I see evidence, only 2.
    1) -industrial claaster in Egypt, and an agreement on the purchase by Iran of our aircraft products for 20 billion.
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 17 November 2015 06: 09
      0
      Was worn out - did not put "2" in front of
      Iran’s purchase agreement for our 20 billion aircraft products
    2. Haettenschweiler
      Haettenschweiler 17 November 2015 06: 14
      16
      - A very thoughtful and detailed comment. I agree completely. The article was frankly advocacy and designed to turn the situation on its head. Designed for people with short memory.
      1. pensioneree
        pensioneree 17 November 2015 07: 01
        +1
        But it was enough ATTENTIVELY and to the end to listen to what and how the GDP said. Article +
        1. GOgaRu
          GOgaRu 17 November 2015 08: 04
          +9
          But it was enough ATTENTIVELY and to the end to listen to what and how the GDP said. Article +

          We hear too many words, but we see too few deeds. Words, words ... just words. negative
    3. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 17 November 2015 10: 31
      +1
      Quote: mirag2
      and Iran’s purchase agreement for our 20 billion aircraft products.

      What kind of contract is this?
      The Minister of Roads and Urban Development, Abbas Ahmad Akhundi, said that there were no negotiations with the Russian aircraft company at all, negotiations were held with representatives of aircraft manufacturers Airbus and Boeing.
      1. Kasym
        Kasym 17 November 2015 18: 11
        -1
        And did anyone think what would happen in three years? With gas, electricity supplies, everything is clear - the transit of the first to the EU and the energy supply of Crimea, this still forces Moscow to maneuver. But what will happen in at least three years:
        1. Nord Stream-2, Turkish Stream, The Power of Siberia. Everything is on the way and the need for Ukraine disappears. And accordingly TWO BILLION. GREEN FOR GAS TRANSIT.
        2. The bridge to the Crimea and the non-volatility of the Crimea. Kiev loses TRANSIT TO CRIMEA and ITS ENERGY DEPENDENCE.
        3. It will lose the FTA regime with the CIS and will clear up the goods, losing the advantage of the CIS market.
        4. In two years from Maidan, all gold reserves were consumed. And if now the Russian Federation is negotiating NOT WITH UKRAINE, AND WITH THE USA + EU FOR ITS DEBTS, then what investor will Poroshenko and Co. attract to the economy? There will definitely not be any money in three years. And it will be necessary to extinguish the remaining billion with the interest of Russia.
        5. In three years, Ukraine will still owe (as an assumption) for electricity. NPP generation has already exceeded 50%, and should be less than 50%. Hence it will attract from the side. In addition to the Russian Federation there is no one.
        6. Ukraine will have to and for coal. Donbass will not give free-pensions and social services. Kiev is not giving payments for the second year.
        If after Maidan we talked about linking Kiev to Moscow more for gas, now this list is growing and what else will be in three years !? I’ve seen at least six holes. So again ho.lam forehead parquet in the Kremlin to grind! hi
  • andre
    andre 17 November 2015 05: 49
    +6
    That's right, my first thought was again deception. But after analyzing the words, I realized that this is such a Jesuit topic. In general, we may not get anything from Ukraine, and now the "friends" of our smaller brothers may prove their friendship !!! Harness the fascist "crap"
    1. Gavril
      Gavril 17 November 2015 05: 56
      10
      If we cannot receive, there was nothing to give! Think - Ukraine is a deserted wino who is being given a loan by a former friend all the time, under an oath promise to return everything tomorrow, while his children are hungry at home, but now tell me who is in the bigger problem?
      1. perm23
        perm23 17 November 2015 06: 34
        27
        And this drunk in case without hesitation will stick a knife in the back. About the debt everything is clear. Well, we don’t have collectors to send to Kiev, to get out debts, there is only for our citizens. Only to our citizens can we raise the price of everything. We are certainly not great politicians, we are ordinary people and we don’t understand all this politeness. We see everything much more simply. Our prices are rising, we have a crisis, because of the Nazis they imposed sanctions on us, they block the Crimea, they kill us in the Donbass. And to understand why a country that harms us should not give us back is hard. Why are our banks, our businessmen still working with Kiev. Why Crimea is still not provided with electricity. That's why we write here and shout.
  • Old warrant officer
    Old warrant officer 17 November 2015 05: 50
    +2
    I completely agree! Tired of comments at the cry level, a serious site should have serious and reasoned articles and comments on them. One can judge the actions of someone only by the end result. And, judging by Putin’s extensive commentary, it’s becoming clear that he, like an avid fisherman, made a catch of large fish. The main thing now is that she would not slip out with eel ...
    1. SteelRatTV
      SteelRatTV 17 November 2015 06: 01
      -3
      hi In-in! And then "everyone imagines himself a strategist, seeing the battle from the outside." And if you also pay attention to the joyful screams at the "censor" ... request You might think that Lavrov and GDP do something without thinking ... fool
      1. perm23
        perm23 17 November 2015 06: 37
        13
        Maybe they think, but it’s not clear about whom. Why, when shouting from TV screens, the Ukrainian economy is in collapse, there is no collapse, but our prices are rising.
    2. mirag2
      mirag2 17 November 2015 06: 13
      +5
      Newsweek polska also believes that Putin has put the "check". I do not see this. If only from the other side, that the IMF would still give money to Jaresko, and our 3 billion would have sunk into oblivion.
    3. Gardamir
      Gardamir 17 November 2015 08: 44
      10
      about the actions of someone is possible only by the end result.
      And the actions of the president and the government are such that no one will forgive any debt to the inhabitants of Russia, but they will cut, for people with a short memory, I remind you, increasing the age for retirement ...
  • KOH
    KOH 17 November 2015 05: 50
    22
    Yes, it’s just boiling up with the people, Putin supports the people in his foreign policy, but when he comes to the government with a bat ... This government will soon bring the people to the blast with their policies ... Today they also want to open closed cities for the sake of economy, well Is that what? ... All !!! and then again banned ...
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 17 November 2015 06: 15
      +9
      Yes. In the government, the most aspid is Dvorkovich. The absolute analogue of Kudrin and Chubais is for the benefit of the Russian Federation.
    2. GOgaRu
      GOgaRu 17 November 2015 08: 12
      +5
      Quote: CON
      Yes, it’s just boiling up with the people, Putin supports the people in his foreign policy, but when he comes to the government with a bat ... This government will soon bring the people to the blast with their policies ... Today they also want to open closed cities for the sake of economy, well Is that what? ... All !!! and then again banned ...

      The government makes no decision without the approval of the president. And there, Prime Minister Dima’s bosom buddy. lol It’s time to move in already!
      1. KOH
        KOH 17 November 2015 08: 23
        -5
        He takes it out, remember about the trains? "What are you? Are you completely stunned?" VVPutin ...
        1. GOgaRu
          GOgaRu 17 November 2015 08: 39
          +7
          Quote: CON
          He takes it out, remember about the trains? "What are you? Are you completely stunned?" VVPutin ...

          Naive! lol
          When the budget was imposed, the item of expenses for electric trains was deleted. The president, of course, was in the know, because the budget is formed under his direct control. There was no expense item, respectively, the regions from the center were not allocated money for trains. In the regions of their money, the cat cried, electric trains began to be canceled.
          And then a clever move in front of the screens (such a game for the audience): "What are you? Are you completely stunned or something?" So that was what he had to say to himself. Bottom line: he is all in white, and some sixes are to blame.
          Mnogohodovochka, however. laughing
    3. Gardamir
      Gardamir 17 November 2015 08: 47
      +5
      Putin is supported by the people in his foreign policy, but when he comes to the government with a bat
      do not say nonsense. you are happy with Putin. Putin is happy with the government, so be happy with the government
      1. stappler 2
        stappler 2 17 November 2015 10: 02
        +1
        yes, you are my friend, a sophist
      2. The comment was deleted.
    4. The comment was deleted.
  • Thomas I do not believe40
    Thomas I do not believe40 17 November 2015 05: 55
    14
    "And we have no reason to doubt that we will receive even three billion next year, there are no fears from our partners to come up with a guarantee on this loan."

    I'm translating. Especially for those who raised the liberocrick. If the EU and the US believe that things in Ukraine will improve (with the help of the IMF), then gentlemen, intercessors, give us (Russia) a guarantee that you are responsible for the bazaar.

    It's simple.

    And then they will be deceived as thoughts, the contract there too was probably reinforced concrete.
    The clerk will accept the euro for himself and wait for 3 lard until the cancer on the mountain whistles.
    I think so, they threw the Old into the people to look at the reaction of the country and to prepare
    the field for this re-structuring, the people will shout and will calm down, there is the New Year, gifts
    the shorter party fuss and the belief that next year will be better.
    Demand money from this Irish exchange and let them be these gay men with Americans and Ukrainians,
    into a money account in a narrow circle sorted out.
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 17 November 2015 10: 33
      +4
      In the US they will say that they agreed with Obama, and ask him. And by this time another president will be in the USA fellow
  • astronom1973n
    astronom1973n 17 November 2015 05: 57
    25
    Maybe it will work out according to a clever scheme to get money from Ukraine. Yes, maybe there is nothing special, but ... in our country there is nowhere to invest money? For example, yesterday I talked with my parents who live in a "single-industry town" (the former a defense enterprise in Siberia), so they say that the local boiler house can hardly cope with the heating season, it is cold in the apartments! There was no money to repair !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And this is not the only place for the application of money in the country and not the only problem of OUR country. We can talk for a long time about foreign policy and so on, but I think the principle is "give your wife to your uncle, but to b ...!" As long as our people in Russia are not provided for, there is nothing to invest in helping FIG knows who !! Throughout history we helped build everyone in a row, refusing to our people, and in the end we now have NOTHING from this help !! !! Do you need to list the countries or do you know dear colleagues? (Poland, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, etc., etc.) I'm not talking about the losses of OUR people of OUR country during the Great Patriotic War! And now the feat of those who died who gave their lives for liberation "fraternal" countries and republics are questioned by these same liberated republics! Of course, I do not understand the strategy, it is not given. But it hurts to look and live in our reality. When they say one thing, but do something completely different!
    1. perm23
      perm23 17 November 2015 06: 53
      14
      We have already begun to reduce servings to children in schools and kindergartens. Prices have increased. And it also hurts me to look at all these polites.
      1. zadorin1974
        zadorin1974 17 November 2015 09: 56
        +9
        Hello everyone, you can't call this morning good. Let's start with gas, in our city (in the suburbs, of course) there is a gas liquefaction plant (Sibur), so gas at gas stations costs 17r40kop (a 50 liter household cylinder costs 750 rubles), so here is our gas, which is transported by tankers for 300 km to Bashkiria (Ufa-15rub) Tataria (N. Chelny 14rub70kop) .Good statistics? Centralized gasification is carried out very badly-the lack of funding is said-In the city, the head office of Transgaz-management of the gas pipeline system Urengoy Pomary Uzhgorod in Udmurtia and the Perm Territory (well, just orphans). To bring gas into the house (from the central branch to the boiler - 27 meters of the subway and 4 meters) the price with the project jumps out for 120 thousand. So who will try to argue that I have ceased to understand our president and really want turn our government on the device. The salary in the last two years has fallen to the level of 2006 (by one-third of the minimum) And after that I am a "all-pervading"? With such an economic policy, I will soon go with a pitchfork (hammer) to Moscow (and such with maybe half of the population of the area will be) So that the URYAKALS would you go with your slogans, God forbid, there will be a sensible leader in the opposition (the modern Emelya Pugachev, then the world of Bandera Maidan will seem like child's play.
        1. Jack-b
          Jack-b 17 November 2015 10: 29
          -2
          Quote: zadorin1974
          gas at gas stations costs 17r40kop (a household cylinder 50l costs 750 rubles), so here is our gas, which is transported by tankers along 300 km to Bashkiria (Ufa-15rub) Tataria (N. Chelny 14rub70cop).

          I somehow dealt with gas prices. And there is a whole darkness of "nuances". There are different types of gases with different calorific values. There are different supply options: liquefied, high pressure, low pressure. They are measured in different ways: cubic meters, kilograms. If everything is brought to a common denominator, then, as a rule, everything converges. If you do not agree, then you can safely write a registered letter to the anti-monopoly authorities with the requirement to figure it out. And they will understand, checked.
          1. zadorin1974
            zadorin1974 17 November 2015 11: 17
            +4
            what for the commotion — one and the same gas (from one plant) is sold at different prices (the farther from the plant, the lower the price) Is there a conversation about that? In the country, everything really flies to jo (a soft spot) and we have all the slogans and how wonderful everything is. I’m not touching the car again — gasoline jumped over the ruble (34) (92). Actually, it’s better to smash everyone once than to live in poverty.
            1. Jack-b
              Jack-b 18 November 2015 05: 35
              0
              Quote: zadorin1974
              Realistically - it’s better to smash everyone to smithereens than to constantly live in poverty.

              Drive to Hohland. They have already smashed it all once. And now they live happily. Live there a little, share their happiness. There may be a desire to turn on the brain and understand everything.
        2. DobryAAH
          DobryAAH 17 November 2015 15: 50
          +6
          In the suburbs of Moscow there is no gas in the villages, but they connect for 300 thousand. But then go to Ukraine, everywhere there is gas in the villages, though from the Soviet era.
          At the expense of pitchfork, negative. Some have already seen it, thus pouring water on the mill of our enemies, THEY WANT THIS. IT IS NECESSARY TO CHANGE EVERYTHING SLOWLY AND STABLE.
    2. Alagez
      Alagez 17 November 2015 09: 40
      -4
      It is necessary as a Chechen Republic Buzu then raise his Kadyrov and take Babos for restoration
  • Same lech
    Same lech 17 November 2015 05: 57
    14
    Dear readers, what are you talking about? What kind of return on what debts? Ukraine on interest alone can not scrape money


    Yeah, but there’s money to buy weapons from KIEV ...

    what bucks KIEV bought recently the expensive American counter-battery radars AN / TPQ-36 .... so there are denyuzhki and we need to transfer them to our pockets so it will be fair.
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 17 November 2015 06: 18
      10
      And what am I talking about? -No one is listening to Putin on the G20, and the West will do anything to harm us anyway. And no one will backtrack in Syria. Let at least a hundred martyrs explode in Paris-Berlin!
  • morpogr
    morpogr 17 November 2015 05: 58
    10 th
    It is a literate move. By making such an offer we get a full refund and guarantees that they will be returned either by the debtor or guarantor. And within three years we will be able to influence at least somehow with the help of this duty on the behavior of the inadequate neighbor. And do not forget that from January 1, all products from Ukraine will be subject to a duty (food embargo) due to association with the EU and the admission of goods from Europe toll free, which means Ukraine will lose its last source of foreign exchange earnings from Russia. Here is such a multi-way.
    1. Kos_kalinki9
      Kos_kalinki9 17 November 2015 06: 34
      17
      Quote: morpogr
      And do not forget that from January 1, all products from Ukraine will be taxed (food embargo) due to association with the EU and the admission of goods from Europe is duty-free, which means Ukraine will lose the last source of foreign exchange earnings from Russia. Here is such a multi-way.

      And you know, after the decision on restructuring the debt of Ukraine adopted yesterday, I personally lost confidence that the duty on products from Ukraine would be introduced. Maybe not right. God grant, God grant.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 17 November 2015 06: 44
        21
        Quote: Kos_kalinki9
        that a duty will be introduced on products from Ukraine, I personally disappeared

        That's for sure lol We must also lend a hand to the fraternal people, in which this people once again shit.
        1. Kos_kalinki9
          Kos_kalinki9 17 November 2015 07: 01
          +5
          Well, yes, otherwise suddenly he will stretch his legs, and there will be nobody to shit in this fraternal hand.
    2. perm23
      perm23 17 November 2015 06: 49
      10
      You are firmly convinced that if the West gives guarantees, then it will fulfill them. Moreover, I’m not even sure that the West will sign a piece of paper, say a maximum in words, and then refuse without problems. I do not force and do not yell, just my opinion is wrong all this.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 17 November 2015 07: 08
        +6
        Quote: perm23
        You are firmly convinced that if the West gives guarantees, then it will fulfill them.

        Of course, the West guaranteed the non-proliferation of NATO to the East. It guaranteed that Georgia would not use force against South Ossetia.
        The guarantee of the West is standing silently and without clinking glasses.
        1. Kos_kalinki9
          Kos_kalinki9 17 November 2015 07: 29
          +7
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Quote: perm23
          You are firmly convinced that if the West gives guarantees, then it will fulfill them.

          Of course, the West guaranteed the non-proliferation of NATO to the East. It guaranteed that Georgia would not use force against South Ossetia.
          The guarantee of the West is standing silently and without clinking glasses.

          And what guarantees did the West give to Yanukovych (although he may be a bad person) !!!!!! Already for the whole day !!!
      2. common man
        common man 17 November 2015 09: 26
        -4
        Quote: perm23
        You are firmly convinced that if the West gives guarantees, then it will fulfill them.

        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Of course, the West guaranteed the non-proliferation of NATO to the East. It guaranteed that Georgia would not use force against South Ossetia.

        Let's not confuse political guarantees, besides oral, and economic guarantees, signed on a piece of paper. With this in the West strictly. If someone serious signs up for Ukraine, then he will not be able to give. By the way, Putin hasn’t forgiven anything yet, but only offered to postpone it under guarantees. Nobody has accepted his offer yet.
        And the article is a minus. At least for this: "... Directly the Tukhachevskys, neither give nor take. Cut off the gas, arrange a default ... Thank God that God does not give horns to the butting cows, otherwise they would definitely overtake them. And they fooled you. judging by the statements of the Ukrainian authorities about all the people, there is too much to understand, I don't even want to voice it. "
        I always thought that on this site you can express your point of view, but it is not recommended to scoop others.
        Our authorities still have a lot of questions. Could not provide electricity to Crimea for a year and a half. No one has yet convinced that this is not possible. Problems with the supply of Crimea. Bridge, Bridge. And how are island states supplied? Or parts thereof. Sicily, Cyprus, Crete, Scotland, Iceland, etc., etc. Sakhalin in the end. It’s just that the authorities’s inability to cope with not the biggest problems. And then weep, Ah, we depend on them.
        1. Kos_kalinki9
          Kos_kalinki9 17 November 2015 11: 49
          +3
          Let's not confuse political guarantees, besides oral, and economic guarantees, signed on a piece of paper. With this in the West strictly. If someone serious signs up for Ukraine, then he will not be able to give.

          Come on you. there, under Ukraine, the IMF’s charter is being changed, and you are about decency and rigor. Where, in which place. By the way, Yanyk, unlike Gorbachev, was given guarantees in writing. They, guarantees, are not worth the ink with which they were signed.
        2. Tambov Wolf
          Tambov Wolf 17 November 2015 14: 47
          +3
          So Yanukovych was signed and immediately thrown off. Here are the "guarantees."
    3. anip
      anip 17 November 2015 07: 59
      +2
      Quote: morpogr
      And within three years we will be able to influence at least somehow with the help of this duty on the behavior of the inadequate neighbor.

      Come on. Influenced already. And if you think about it, the debtor has much more influence on the neighbor to whom he owes.
  • Wolka
    Wolka 17 November 2015 06: 00
    13
    I’m not stupid, but so far I also don’t understand the causal relationship of "Putin's move"
    1. GOgaRu
      GOgaRu 17 November 2015 08: 16
      +6
      Quote: Volka
      I’m not stupid, but so far I also don’t understand the causal relationship of "Putin's move"

      Tack, tack to catch.
  • 33 Watcher
    33 Watcher 17 November 2015 06: 00
    47
    Well, I generally did not comment on this news yesterday. I’ll comment on this today. The point is not money, especially three lard, it’s a drop in the bucket from the point of view of the annual budget of the Russian Federation. Specifically, I wanted a non-repayment of the debt, I wanted a default in Ukraine. Wanted a final economic death. I will explain why. Because they found money for the military budget (increased). I wanted everything to come up there, that there wouldn’t even be money to paint, that, it’s not, that the tanks should be re-opened, that would bring them from storage places, not what it was. This is what I wanted. Or does someone disagree that the Nazis need to be restrained?
    And about the fact that there someone will freeze and starve, so I do not care. Need to hold back.
    I wanted just this, and not repayment of the debt. I am upset by the fact of these proposals. And just as I would be upset if someone threw money to them and they would pay. The complete halt of the economy, of any production, the lack of energy in Ukraine, that’s what it was necessary to achieve. This is the struggle for peace in Europe.
    And these delays ... How many more people will they kill before 2018?
    1. perm23
      perm23 17 November 2015 06: 42
      15
      I agree completely. It’s time, it’s time for the brother to teach the family to love, not to disgrace the memory of the dead grandfathers. And as they say. you don’t need to feed and let the fishing rod let you catch. And then we all need to tighten our belts, and here’s a present for you for a present. And the price of gas, and credit, and so on.
    2. SeregaBoss
      SeregaBoss 17 November 2015 06: 51
      +4
      I agree with you, I also want the outskirts to understand their place, that it is not a navel but an ass for the next + - 5 years. But you shouldn't forget about our money either, inside our not embracing problems, apparently, it is not visible. After pokumek VVP and Co. made a Solomon decision, although it does not guarantee the return of our money, but now "Exclusive and Co." will have to think hard. The ball is on their side, we are waiting for the move.
    3. Sauron80
      Sauron80 17 November 2015 07: 22
      19
      I personally have the same bloodthirsty thoughts in my head wandering, I completely agree with you. And for those who will shout that there ordinary people will suffer - so where is this people then? Is this the people who are sending sms to the army? Or those mothers who are not against the war in the Donbass, but only against the fact that their husbands and sons are poorly supplied? It’s already time to understand - WELL THERE IS NO MORE THAN BROTHER PEOPLE !!!!! NO !!!! And consequently, to wet all this hohlofashist scum with all possible means. Since it is impossible to bomb in the Stone Age, it means to strangle economically, while there is still such an opportunity. And I can say only one thing to the adherents of the KhPP - you are going to asshole with your cunning plan, I’m personally tired of tightening the belt for the sake of what incomprehensible gestures of oligophrenics and politicians towards each other.
      Now at least get out of hand.
    4. Angro Magno
      Angro Magno 17 November 2015 07: 29
      10
      Observer, we all wanted and waited for this. Benefits for puppies - new blood in the Donbass.
    5. anip
      anip 17 November 2015 07: 57
      +7
      Quote: Observer 33
      Specifically, I wanted a non-repayment of the debt, I wanted a default in Ukraine. Wanted a final economic death.
      ...
      I wanted just this, and not repayment of the debt.

      Moreover, debt is unlikely to be shaken from Ukraine.
    6. Tambov Wolf
      Tambov Wolf 17 November 2015 14: 52
      +5
      Three billion dollars is 210 billion rubles. Just for raising pensions. This is the money that was taken away from pensioners. Remember how pitifully Ulyukaev whined, where did he get the money for retirement. In short, enemies of the people.
      1. Aleksander
        Aleksander 17 November 2015 19: 05
        +3
        Quote: Tambov Wolf
        Three billion dollars is 210 billion rubles

        Three billion dollars is annual military budget Ukraine. Coincidence? No.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    7. Garris199
      Garris199 18 November 2015 04: 13
      +1
      Quote: Observer 33
      I wanted a default in Ukraine. Wanted a final economic death.

      And I want that. It is necessary to punish and point out the insoles in their place. But I do not think that this indulgence was made because of the weakness of our leadership. I don’t believe that Putin has someone on a leash, somehow the course of events does not fit, but we willingly bargained for something in return. Now there is a big game, where the two main fields are Syria and Ukraine (so far relegated to the background), where each of the parties is trying to get a favorable and convenient position. I think we got it in Syria, and the turn of the outskirts will come later, and something tells me that they will decide with it thoroughly and without any knocking out of debts. The soil for this is ripening at full steam.
  • 0895055116
    0895055116 17 November 2015 06: 02
    14
    OK! Let Putin PRAV and his proposal for the restructuring of the debt of Banderostan come true! And yet - in my personal opinion - THE FASTER THE FASHION BANDERLOGUE FALLS FALLING, THERE WILL BE BETTER FOR RUSSIA AND THE NORMAL PART OF UKRAINIAN SOCIETY!
    1. perm23
      perm23 17 November 2015 06: 42
      10
      How many wolves do not feed, he still looks into the forest and how many fascists do not please him, he will still kill.
    2. anip
      anip 17 November 2015 07: 56
      14
      Quote: 0895055116
      OK! Let Putin PRAV and his proposal for the restructuring of the debt of Banderostan come true! And yet - in my personal opinion - THE FASTER THROUGH THE FASHION BANDERLOG MODE FALLS, IT WILL BE BETTER

      Therefore, in order for the Bandera junta to fall faster, did Putin raise debt restructuring on a silver platter to them?
      When will he do such untold benefits to his people? Or is it prepared for their own only to increase prices, lower wages, increase retirement age? Or maybe if Putin had not scattered billions, then he would not have to raise his retirement age?
  • igorra
    igorra 17 November 2015 06: 05
    -3
    I, too, first turned to truncated information, then detailed information went and realized that Putin was once again breeding the West. The question is different, when all this liberalistic writing p-brotherhood will cease to bear our brains, the feeling that they are all on the drain of the State Department. The president’s long plan to identify the fifth column may be time to at least deprive citizenship, because harsh times are coming.
  • ML-334
    ML-334 17 November 2015 06: 06
    -5
    The author is right. What can we see from the couch? We have only emotions. Politics requires a sober approach. I’m not saying that we all drink here, we just have information from news resources — in fact, only speculation.
    1. V.ic
      V.ic 17 November 2015 06: 36
      17
      Quote: ML-334
      What can we see from the couch? We have only emotions.

      We will see that there will be no loan repayment in December 2015. This is a fact. And the fact that banderlogs WILL repay debts in 2016, 2017 and 2018 is not a fact. They can return slop, spitting, poop is a fact.
    2. perm23
      perm23 17 November 2015 06: 44
      0
      Well, we are thinking here, it is clear that we do not own all the information. here and talk.
    3. ele1285
      ele1285 17 November 2015 06: 56
      18
      Quote: ML-334
      The author is right. What can we see from the couch?

      For example, I can see from my couch that for three dead presidents you can make a bunch of useful things for Russian citizens, for example, buy medical equipment, upgrade teachers' qualifications and much more.
      Putin’s cunning plan, it’s certainly funny, but we live here now, and not in three years. 404 break up and you won’t find anyone responsible. Again, the courts of the years at 100. The government has us, as it wants. The Kremlin - every year to drink tea, Taburetkin - a hero, Vasilyeva - almost everything was given away. You can continue to infinity.
      The article is far-fetched. I won't be surprised if the authors find seven meanings in the fairy tale "Ryaba Chicken".
      1. anip
        anip 17 November 2015 07: 52
        +9
        Quote: ele1285
        Putin’s cunning plan, it’s certainly funny, but we live here and now, and not in three years.

        Yes, even about UtPriots have stopped yelling about HPP, apparently the plan is very cunning.
        1. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 17 November 2015 10: 39
          +5
          Quote: anip
          Yes, even about UtPriots have stopped yelling about HPP, apparently the plan is very cunning.
          So before, the main argument against hundreds of couches was that the debt was insured by the British, so we’ll get it, and the British will already shake Ukraine in full. And now how to get out? bleat about guarantees? from the same Europeans ?! - Well, a funny honest word. Like it or not, but got into a puddle - it was then necessary to restructure with everyone else, they would say that we are like everyone else, it would not be so offensive.
    4. Amurets
      Amurets 17 November 2015 08: 11
      +5
      Quote: ML-334
      The author is right. What can we see from the couch? We have only emotions. Politics requires a sober approach. I’m not saying that we all drink here, we just have information from news resources — in fact, only speculation.

      If you wish, you can always find basic information. And to think that you are stupid is also harmful. The only thing we don’t know is what’s in Putin’s head. What is happening in France now was discussed at the forum when Merkel and Hollande made a decision to provide shelter to refugees from the Middle East. Unfortunately, the course of events went the wrong way, as the forum had expected. I never tire of repeating that up to 95% of the information is collected in the media, including the Internet.
      1. Jack-b
        Jack-b 17 November 2015 10: 50
        0
        Quote: Amurets
        up to 95% of the information is collected in the media, including the Internet.

        I'm not sure that you will be able to collect 95% of the information, but even if so. 5% of the most important and crucial information is still hidden from you. And 95% is the empty dust that you are thrown to hide 5%. Say on a proposal to restructure the debt of Ukraine: what kind of guarantees and from whom does Putin require? How should the debt be repaid: in three tranches of a billion per year, or will there be more tranches, but in a year the amount of tranches will be in a billion? What is the interest rate for the restructuring and what will be the conditions for its repayment? Can you collect 95% of the information on this topic?
        1. Amurets
          Amurets 17 November 2015 14: 09
          +2
          Quote: Jack-B
          And 95% is empty dust, which they throw to you to hide 5%.

          I agree with you, but not completely. The fact is that the remaining five percent will be blown out today or tomorrow on some box, I mean the channels. And the dust is always sifted and blown away. So, if you wish, you can find the truth.
      2. Tambov Wolf
        Tambov Wolf 17 November 2015 14: 56
        0
        You just wrote what the state ABN is doing.
  • oldav
    oldav 17 November 2015 06: 11
    +7
    What a suggestion !!? Why did you all get that they will take it? Senya clearly and clearly stated that they would not pay anything now either after 3 years, and the IMF supports them in this. In short, they threw us and everything, calm down guys.
  • Vladimir71
    Vladimir71 17 November 2015 06: 15
    -1
    With a black sheep, even a tuft of wool. the more there is one shred and stayed)))
  • Tatar 174
    Tatar 174 17 November 2015 06: 16
    +5
    Minus you for "Oh, those loud shouts from under the flag of the USSR ... Yes, and for the most part, nameless users. In general, lately this flag is just a refuge for such ... know-it-alls and pseudonym." I agree with the rest, but for the flag ... You can't do that.
  • sa-zz
    sa-zz 17 November 2015 06: 17
    0
    VV did everything right.
    But in domestic politics, something is not going well, as if somewhere the gears are turning on an axis. Maybe it's time for the "talking head" to get out of the office and take a look at what is happening, maybe it’s about what is being told to him and what is actually there are different things, and currents are urgently needed.
  • Agent J
    Agent J 17 November 2015 06: 21
    0
    That's right ... Putin wants guarantees from the West for these 3 yards, but I think they will not harness themselves to Ukraine, they will refuse a "generous" offer from the GDP request
  • Koshak
    Koshak 17 November 2015 06: 23
    10
    "Oh, those loud shouts from under the flag of the USSR ... Moreover, most of them are unnamed users. In general, lately this flag is just a refuge for such ... know-it-alls and all-knowing."
    Again the wrong people?
  • Trogvar
    Trogvar 17 November 2015 06: 27
    +9
    And we have no reason to doubt that we will receive even three billion next year, our partners have no fears to come up with a guarantee on this loan. "
    Nuuu .. guarantees that "our Partners" are able to give .. guaranteed: not the expansion of NATO at the expense of the countries and armies of the Interior Ministry and the former USSR, the presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, also guaranteed, what else is there? well, yes .. implementation of the Minsk agreements by Banderstadt .. etc. and does anyone else think that these "guarantees" are worth something?
  • oldav
    oldav 17 November 2015 06: 27
    19
    I live in the one and a half million city of Novosibirsk. My city is suffocating in traffic jams and congestion, people get to work for hours. To eliminate all this, you need to build another bridge, $ 1 billion, build 3-4 metro stations, $ 1 billion, make interchanges and go around the city, $ 1 billion. But no damn, we better give these 3 yards to the decaying outskirts with a probability of return of 3 -5%, and you respected Novosibirsk stand on in your traffic jams!
    1. tracker
      tracker 17 November 2015 06: 34
      11
      I completely agree, but from the very beginning it was clear with the advent of the junta that they forgive us all our debts. They are commanded by the State Department and the IMF, and they will never give back 3 billion, especially to Russia, which they consider their vassal. In real life, I am 99% sure that out of 3 billion Russia will not receive a cent. The process will be framed, brought under any offset or political concessions
      1. oldav
        oldav 17 November 2015 07: 09
        +2
        The IMF seems to have stated that there will be changes in relation to the outskirts and she will receive money anyway despite unsecured debt to the Russian Federation.
    2. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 17 November 2015 08: 16
      -1
      I live in Moscow and in spite of the tens of billions invested, I can’t get out of traffic jams.
      Under Putin, too many cars we bought different cars sometimes 2 cars per family.
      Yes, and with the cottages a mess. Therefore, when a city is removed from its place and goes to summer cottages, it is some sort of Tryndets.
      Many under Putin appeared permanent housing outside the city. So there is no rest on weekdays.
      That would be as before. One car for 100 people. Kaif, not like now.
      1. Amurets
        Amurets 17 November 2015 08: 29
        +9
        Quote: Cap.Morgan
        I live in Moscow and in spite of the tens of billions invested, I can’t get out of traffic jams.
        Under Putin, too many cars we bought different cars sometimes 2 cars per family.
        Yes, and with the cottages a mess. Therefore, when a city is removed from its place and goes to summer cottages, it is some sort of Tryndets.
        Many under Putin appeared permanent housing outside the city. So there is no rest on weekdays.
        That would be as before. One car for 100 people. Kaif, not like now.

        But if instead of the big Moscow proclaimed by Medvedev and Sobyanin to build a giant Moscow, then neither Siberia, nor the Far East, nor other regions will be needed. Why are they? The master will come, he will feed everyone, and let the riches of Russia leave others. Moscow is chewing at the expense of the regions, and you still complain.
        1. DobryAAH
          DobryAAH 17 November 2015 16: 10
          +3
          By the way, in Moscow. Housing is built and sold and sold. Moscow is expanding and expanding. Soon the whole country in Moscow and St. Petersburg will be. Is it normal?
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. oldav
        oldav 17 November 2015 08: 42
        +4
        What conclusion? You are to blame for the people that are stuck in traffic jams? Can then pick up cars from all and give them to that wounded in the form of help?
    3. Dryuya2
      Dryuya2 17 November 2015 09: 59
      +2
      Quote: oldav
      I live in the one and a half million city of Novosibirsk. My city is suffocating in traffic jams and congestion, people get to work for hours. To eliminate all this you need

      The authorities will spend almost 1,9 billion rubles to inform about their work
      The program to inform the public about the activities of public authorities is designed until 2022
      The government of the Novosibirsk region at a meeting on Monday will consider the draft program "Informing the population about the activities of state authorities of the Novosibirsk region, the socio-economic development of the Novosibirsk region for 2016-2021" with a funding volume of more than 1,87 billion rubles.
      “In 2016, the program provides for financing in the amount of 346,631 million rubles,” the document says on a government website.
      For subsequent years, annual funding is less, it will increase slightly - from 300,45 million rubles in 2017 to 307,379 million rubles in 2021. Funding is provided from the budget of the Novosibirsk region.
      ========
      and so for a pretty penny - "where is Zin's money?" tongue

      Read more at RBC:
      http://nsk.rbc.ru/nsk/02/11/2015/56370b3d9a7947a5e6769e17
  • parusnik
    parusnik 17 November 2015 06: 32
    -2
    Putin took another step that no one expected from him. Smart and tough in content. And God forbid that he got it all.... Everything is done correctly .. And the court .. well, the court won .. the property to arrest "polite" people will we send? smile
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 17 November 2015 15: 46
      -2
      I turn to the minusers ... Have you still not understood what the catch is? The Ukraine does not want to recognize the three lard government debt, but declares that this is a personal duty of Yanukovych and the bastards from the IMF in this support .. not directly, but indirectly. . By agreeing to an installment plan, Ukraine thereby recognizes the state debt .. and there will be no excuses anymore ..
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 17 November 2015 06: 36
    +7
    And what, no one remembers that the IMF is prepared to continue financing Dill, BYPASSING its own rules on the country's default. IMHO, it was this preparation that prompted the GDP to tie the "double sea" debt of Dill with the obligations of some Guarantor. To receive money within the specified period. And guarantees are needed - FAST! Till December. And in order to give such guarantees on behalf of the state, it must be carried out through the Congress (in a mattress, for example). They gave striped-eared guarantees in the lard of Dill - they gave it. True, the dill has not yet received a loan under these guarantees - and may not receive it. And GDP offers to GUARANTEE Russia the return of the loan already taken. On derisive preferential terms. They will give guarantees - our money is not wasted! WILL NOT GIVE - then the court, default and other delights, but not a single Western dog will not tyafknet that Russia "drowns" Dill, because the aggressor, blah blah blah.
    Was the money returned for the Mistral? Fully, and even covered the costs. Where did these ships go? Yes, to where they should have been - to the warm seas.
    And they will also purchase helicopter pilots for Egypt. And now we are in a buzz instead of cheap oil to sell expensive helicopters and other equipment.
    Let the CA sell cheap oil.
    1. Kuzyakin15
      Kuzyakin15 17 November 2015 10: 08
      +4
      What are these costs covered? When? The initial infa was that the cost of the Mistral, crew training, the construction of infrastructure for these boxes, the development and construction of turntables pulled 1,2 lard. How much did you get?
  • meriem1
    meriem1 17 November 2015 06: 36
    10
    The article is sensible ...

    Oh, those loud speakers from under the flag of the USSR ... Yes, and for the most part nameless users. In general, lately this flag is just a refuge for such ... know-it-alls and all-understanders.


    ..that is just about the flag and all-knowing is not necessary !!!! Somehow even unexpectedly read ...... Or are you the ultimate truth ???
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 17 November 2015 06: 41
    +3
    our partners have no guarantee to make a guarantee on this loan

    It can be understood that there will be no guarantees, not oral, but fixed on paper, and the proposal is removed from the agenda. The fact is that the West under this case can give guarantees, but then modestly forget about them. It is not yet known what will happen in Ukraine next year.
  • Conscience
    Conscience 17 November 2015 06: 45
    +2
    It’s not serious at all to have a dialogue with them, but about debt - the payment is red.
  • Bosk
    Bosk 17 November 2015 06: 46
    +1
    It turns out that Putin is ready to distribute the debt over the next three years, but at the same time the West must give guarantees ?, hmm ... this already looks like a "set-up" to the West from Putin ...
  • Al_oriso
    Al_oriso 17 November 2015 06: 47
    10
    Before the meeting at the G20, Russia "took a tough stance" - not to forgive debt and not to restructure in any way.
    And now this "smart thought" suddenly appeared, which turned out to be far-sighted and solves all problems.
    Question: who suggested this idea?
    Question: where did the tough stance go and why?
    In any case, we see weakness in the actions of our government. The "bear" was tamed and driven into a den, but he didn't really have time to growl.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Bosk
      Bosk 17 November 2015 09: 02
      0
      Here, as I understand it, Putin invited the West to become the guarantor of the return of the debt and for this he extends the payment for three years, here I don’t see any weakness, Putin just shows that Russia is ready for a dialogue but with the condition that the same West does not wake up only as a spectator, but he will also take part of the responsibility on himself ... now we need to wait for a reaction on the other hand, are they ready to risk their money ?, again we do not forget that this is only a proposal and not a solution.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • njerd
    njerd 17 November 2015 07: 05
    0
    I do not go to extremes about Putin’s personality. But what was voiced by him is a masterpiece of diplomatic thought. For there are actions, but there is an informational background around them. And now let them think in the West how to otmazatsya and not to lose face.
    1. Kos_kalinki9
      Kos_kalinki9 17 November 2015 07: 44
      +1
      Quote: njerd
      I do not go to extremes about Putin’s personality. But what was voiced by him is a masterpiece of diplomatic thought. For there are actions, but there is an informational background around them. And now let them think in the West how to otmazatsya and not to lose face.

      But they don’t think about it. SGA wondered about selling lethal weapons to Ukraine. Well, now the IMF will throw a tranche, and they will sell them guns, tanks, planes. And we will wait. And the time is right. They are waiting for the promised three years (folk wisdom).
  • Reader
    Reader 17 November 2015 07: 09
    +6
    That would be good if that were the case. But for some reason, such optimistic articles are only in the Russian press.
    In the West, they write that GDP was forced to play according to the rules they proposed .. remember the rhetoric .. Russia is waiting for the return of debt in December and under no circumstances will it go on restructuring .. have we forgotten about this already? And that a guarantee of 18 billion is required .. they will give it, the states have no billions of debts at all (billions more - less), they just don't give a damn, because they are not, not Ukraine, they are not going to pay Russia. If everything was as we say, then for a long time everyone would owe Russia, and we would live better than the states.
    1. anip
      anip 17 November 2015 07: 48
      +8
      Quote: Reader
      Russia expects a debt return in December and under no circumstances will it go to restructuring .. have we forgotten about this already?

      Forgot, forgot. Hurray-Utriots, they are where the guarantor is, there they are. Turn around like a weather vane.
    2. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 17 November 2015 08: 08
      0
      Well, what do you want to write in the West.
      Informational, you know, war.
      Compare what cartoons Charlie draws about the crashed plane and the events in Paris.
      Events are similar but how the comments differ.
      1. Reader
        Reader 17 November 2015 08: 44
        +6
        Compare what cartoons Charlie draws about the crashed plane and the events in Paris.
        Events are similar but how comments differ. (C)
        .. so this is itself .. it’s one thing when another country and a completely different thing when your country ....
        And where are they (the Western press) wrong? ... remember the rhetoric .. Russia is waiting for the return of the debt in December and under no circumstances will it go to restructuring .... it was, it was, and not so long ago. After the "conversation" with Obama .. a 180 degree turn .. I don’t know about you, but my soul is disgusting ..
        1. stappler 2
          stappler 2 17 November 2015 09: 32
          +4
          yes, plums have been going on for a long time, from the beginning of the Donbass there are only plums, you recall ...,
          and in general you need to stop thinking that our leadership is ours .., it is not ours, it is theirs ...
  • Born in USSR
    Born in USSR 17 November 2015 07: 11
    +1
    In the international arena, Putin is well done, the people are correcting him properly. Note key phrases. SUGGESTED AND IF. Let them think. They have right now in the geyroppa hemorrhoid goes in full. Shushpanchik is responsible for domestic politics. And here is a complete mess. It seems that the liberals who are sitting there can only speak beautifully, but they do everything in turn. The country is a mess, products are becoming more expensive. We have bread 50 rubles a loaf. Gasoline is growing, shorter than tryndets. You know, there are Jews with whom you can and should work, because he has and everyone in the district has. But there are Jews who row everything for themselves and they do not care for the rest. So our government and 95 percent of the commerce and the country are Jews.
    1. anip
      anip 17 November 2015 07: 46
      +5
      Quote: Born in the USSR
      Shushpanchik is responsible for domestic politics.

      Uh, but nothing that:
      Article 11 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation:
      State power in the Russian Federation is exercised by the President of the Russian Federation, the Federal Assembly (the Council of the Federation and the State Duma), the Government of the Russian Federation, and the courts of the Russian Federation.

      Article 80 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation:
      1. The President of the Russian Federation is the head of state.

      2. The President of the Russian Federation is the guarantor of the Constitution of the Russian Federation, the rights and freedoms of man and citizen. In accordance with the procedure established by the Constitution of the Russian Federation, it takes measures to protect the sovereignty of the Russian Federation, its independence and state integrity, ensures the coordinated functioning and interaction of government bodies.

      3. The President of the Russian Federation, in accordance with the Constitution of the Russian Federation and federal laws, determines the main directions of domestic and foreign policy of the state.

      4. The President of the Russian Federation as the head of state represents the Russian Federation within the country and in international relations.

      Article 83:
      President of Russian Federation:
      a) appoint, with the consent of the State Duma, the Chairman of the Government of the Russian Federation;

      Article 107:
      1. The adopted federal law is sent to the President of the Russian Federation for five days for signing and promulgation.

      Article 109:
      The State Duma may be dissolved by the President of the Russian Federation in cases provided for by Articles 111 and 117 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation.

      Article 117:
      The President of the Russian Federation may decide on the resignation of the Government of the Russian Federation.


      Any further clarifications needed?
      1. Saratoga833
        Saratoga833 17 November 2015 13: 01
        +1
        Quote: anip
        Any further clarifications needed?

        But in reality - completely or not quite differently!
  • njerd
    njerd 17 November 2015 07: 21
    +3
    I do not quite understand the Jews in FIG dragged, blaming someone for their incompetence, the way to a standstill, but I agree about foreign and domestic policy.
  • Angro Magno
    Angro Magno 17 November 2015 07: 27
    0
    HPP Witnesses Strike Back?
    That is, the money we not only failed, but also in profit.
    I warned of something similar.
  • GOgaRu
    GOgaRu 17 November 2015 07: 34
    0
    Attors seem to have received a presidential grant. negativeWe decided to do a detailed analysis of the comments. Here you are not thinking correctly, you have to think like that, right.
    According to the style of presentation at the end there should be an annotation: We are responsible for the bazaar!
  • anip
    anip 17 November 2015 07: 36
    +4
    From this statement, everything started. "Putinsil", "naspredali", "return our money" and stuff like that.

    But what, isn’t it? Until recently, hurray Utriots were screaming (and not only they, but also the media) that FIG Ukraine, and not restructuring, let it give money in December, or not its default. Well, fucked up? Has your idol yet again not met your expectations? Well, it’s nothing, not the first time, it’s time to get used to it, Putin will once again bend under Ukraine, it’s not for him to rip off the last from his people.
    And by the way, what about loan interest?
  • kagorta
    kagorta 17 November 2015 07: 38
    -1
    A normal move in an attempt to exchange the bills of a madman for bills of more appropriate citizens. It’s just that in the West a lot of good people are at our expense. And I think Putin has eaten all the baldness with it. And here once the debt of Ukraine can become your duty. And we will see whether America subscribes to this. Here they already have reputation risks. Subscribing is not bad, not subscribing is even better. The beauty course is simply amazing, the zugzwang is called. And they are journalists ... such journalists.
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 17 November 2015 22: 56
      0
      Yes, right now, arrogant Saxons, they just sleep and see how to vouch for Yaytsenyuk, and even pay on this guarantee. And so - a good idea, if we were guarantors.
  • Chulman
    Chulman 17 November 2015 07: 46
    +3
    Quote: Sauron80
    I personally have the same bloodthirsty thoughts in my head wandering, I completely agree with you. And for those who will shout that there ordinary people will suffer - so where is this people then? Is this the people who are sending sms to the army? Or those mothers who are not against the war in the Donbass, but only against the fact that their husbands and sons are poorly supplied? It’s already time to understand - WELL THERE IS NO MORE THAN BROTHER PEOPLE !!!!! NO !!!! And consequently, to wet all this hohlofashist scum with all possible means. Since it is impossible to bomb in the Stone Age, it means to strangle economically, while there is still such an opportunity. And I can say only one thing to the adherents of the KhPP - you are going to asshole with your cunning plan, I’m personally tired of tightening the belt for the sake of what incomprehensible gestures of oligophrenics and politicians towards each other.
    Now at least get out of hand.

    I agree with you!!! good
  • Spitfire
    Spitfire 17 November 2015 07: 53
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Quote: Nitarius
    Your mother in DIVISION ....
    1) ENERGOMOST IS NOT READY IN CRIMEA ...

    Che for a stupid habit they took to press on the caps. It will stand out from the crowd, whether that desire has appeared.


    The normal way to emphasize the basic idea of ​​the message, that would have come right away. But you and Kaps have clearly not enough, since you wrote such a noble name in your nickname with a small letter ...
    1. Saratoga833
      Saratoga833 17 November 2015 13: 05
      +1
      Quote: Spitfire
      such a noble name

      For you, she may be noble, and for me, the name of the traitor to her homeland. And I do not see any nobility in this surname!
  • Cap.Morgan
    Cap.Morgan 17 November 2015 07: 56
    -4
    It seems that there was no money.
    Yanukovych received them literally a week before the coup and where he’s doing them is unclear. He put it in his pocket or skipped it in restaurants ... there are only debt obligations. But it is not important. The main thing is a good trump card for pressure on Banderstadt.
    On the other hand, it is unclear how default will affect the supply of Crimea and Donbass. What supplies Crimea to Ukraine?
    In the summer, they already blocked the supply of food to the Crimea, I generally keep quiet about the Donbass.
  • GUKTU
    GUKTU 17 November 2015 07: 59
    11
    maybe I think narrowly, but my shirt is closer to the body. You can of course make concessions, but we must not forget about the residents of the Russian Federation. Friends, do you generally watch the political and financial news of the Russian Federation ????? Do you realize how the life of citizens will change from 01.01.2016/XNUMX/XNUMX ?????? Have you seen what level of unemployment in the country? Or maybe you are comfortable with the level of medicine with education? Money is where to invest (spend) with us! And they are not superfluous!
  • Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 17 November 2015 08: 01
    +3
    In this case, the Russian government actually offers the United States to pay for its puppets. Because “guarantees” in such cases are financial guarantees, in fact the same debt securities, only American ones.

    But that is not all. The text of the restructuring agreement proposed by Kiev contains a clause according to which none of the lenders has the right to receive better conditions than all the others. It was a fairly standard clause for such agreements, and it was thanks to it that the Franklin Templeton fund pulled veins from Argentina for several years after the default of 2001, and then completely provoked a second default in this country. If one of the lenders receives better conditions for restructuring than all the others, then all the others may automatically require similar preferences. I.e:

    a) the United States will have to guarantee not 3 billion Russian debt, but all 18,5 billion dollars of restructured debts;
    b) the repayment of the debt (all 18,5 yards) should not take place from 2019 to 2025 years, but from 2016 to 2018 years.
  • eugraphus
    eugraphus 17 November 2015 08: 04
    +8
    They always want to convince us that Ukraine has nothing to repay. There is always something to take from a beautiful girl, and even more so from a large state. For war, purchase, repair of weapons, they have money. Obliged to shrink, and repay debts. Another thing is that they do not want to.
  • anip
    anip 17 November 2015 08: 07
    12
    From folk art:
  • Begemot
    Begemot 17 November 2015 08: 13
    +8
    I listened to Putin’s press release yesterday. To be honest, I applauded him. The issue of Russia's debt does not concern Ukraine at all, Putin so subtly and powerfully controlled both the West and the banderlogs themselves that it didn’t reach everyone. The proposal was made specifically to the West: If you want to continue to be friends with banderlogs - for God's sake, we are sure that with your help they will get on your feet - your right, we want our support in your efforts - but please: Pay for them yourself, we are ready to wait . Note this is not a banderlog offer, this is an offer to the West. Banderlog simply no one asks and no one on their gagging opinion will not pay attention. It will now be more difficult for the West to argue for scrapping the IMF system and either have to accept the darkest forecasts for Ukrobandera or take on their debt.
    1. GOgaRu
      GOgaRu 17 November 2015 08: 30
      +2
      Yesterday I listened to the press exit Putin. To be honest, I applauded him. Ukraine’s question of Russia's debt doesn’t concern at all, Putin has so subtly and powerfully protrolled both the West and the banderlog themselves that it hasn’t reached everyone.

      And the king is naked!
      1. Victor-M
        Victor-M 17 November 2015 11: 58
        +1
        Quote: GOgaRu
        Yesterday I listened to the press exit Putin. To be honest, I applauded him. Ukraine’s question of Russia's debt doesn’t concern at all, Putin has so subtly and powerfully protrolled both the West and the banderlog themselves that it hasn’t reached everyone.

        And the king is naked!

        Meet on clothes, see off the mind.
      2. Dry_T-50
        Dry_T-50 17 November 2015 12: 45
        +1
        Quote: GOgaRu
        Yesterday I listened to the press exit Putin. To be honest, I applauded him. Ukraine’s question of Russia's debt doesn’t concern at all, Putin has so subtly and powerfully protrolled both the West and the banderlog themselves that it hasn’t reached everyone.

        And the king is naked!

        On populism out of the minuses out?
        1. Petr7
          Petr7 17 November 2015 20: 31
          0
          Quote: Sukhoy_T-50
          On populism out of the minuses out?

          To whom to populate?
  • UVB
    UVB 17 November 2015 08: 17
    14
    Oh, these loud-shouting ones from under the USSR flag ... Moreover, for the most part, unnamed users. In general, the last time this flag is just a refuge for such here ... know-all and all-understanding.
    I'm not about the topic of the article and the flashy comments. And about the flag. As I understand it, the author does not like the USSR flag, he proposes to abolish it. We will not go far, I was born in 1959, I live in Lugansk. It is impossible to put the LPR flag, and what, should I put the UKRAINE flag? Like the absolute majority of my friends, Ukrainian wool stands on end! And there are plenty of "know-it-alls and all-names" under any flag!
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 17 November 2015 22: 51
      +2
      I was also staggered. I have just the Soviet flag in the avatar. That flag, which we together, treacherously rejected and which most Russian citizens, I think, would not mind returning to the country. And not only the flag ...
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir 17 November 2015 08: 18
    18
    Everybody knows. that the president is great in international affairs. Only he, like that hut, turned his back on Russia. Here are just the latest deeds of the Kremlin (and therefore the president) the extension of retirement, paid Russian roads, so far for heavy trucks, but the main thing is to start. And the list when the inhabitants of Russia is sheared can be continued, but restructured. for some reason partners. How so?
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 17 November 2015 22: 49
      0
      The saddest thing is under the liberoid government and it is not clear what sense the president is that Russia does not expect anything good. We have arrived all Monday, more than thirty years ago ...