"Tunguska" and "Shilka" will be replaced by a new anti-aircraft complex

A new anti-aircraft artillery system is being developed in the Russian Federation, which will replace the Tunguska and Shilka complexes, reports RIA News message from the head of the air defense forces Alexander Leonov.

Anti-aircraft complex "Tunguska"

“To replace our Tunguska and Shilka complexes, a new promising anti-aircraft artillery system in 57 mm caliber is being developed,” Leonov said, without specifying either the development timeline or the name of the new weapons.

Help Agency: "Shilka" is a Soviet self-propelled anti-aircraft gun armed with a quadruple automatic 23-mm cannon, which is designed to directly cover ground troops, destroy air targets at ranges up to 2,5 thousand meters and altitudes up to 1,5 thousand meters, flying at speeds up to 450 meters per second.

Anti-aircraft missile and gun complex "Tunguska" provides detection, identification, tracking and destruction of various types of air targets (helicopters, tactical aircraft aviation, cruise missiles, drones), as well as the destruction of surface and ground targets.

Comments

[Same lech]

Maybe it’s still better to upgrade TUNGUSKA to an Apache range of 10 km ... it’s cheaper than building a new installation ... there’s not much money in the budget for a new development.

Amazing news of the day...


In Syria, the Russian army threw combat robots into battle

http://warfiles.ru/show-104009-vpervye-v-sirii-armiya-rossii-brosila-v-boy-boevy



h-robotov.html


Is it really true????

[Ami du peuple]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

it’s cheaper than building a new installation ... then there is not much money in the budget for a new development.

But 57 mm is better than 23 mm. Yes, let the designers design - that's why they are designers. Maybe it's true, someday such an installation will go into series.

[Maxom75]

57mm standard for fleet guns?

[aleks 62 next]

..... 57mm fleet guns standard? ...


.... Not really .... there was such a "spark" ZSU-57 .... A good thing, but a small rate of fire ....

[34 region]

Is caliber important when using UAVs? What caliber is needed to shoot down a drone? More less? Or drones of yesterday? Against drones, what is the best caliber?

[NIKNN]

Quote: Maxom75

57mm standard for fleet guns?

Quote: 34 region

Is caliber important when using UAVs? What caliber is needed to shoot down a drone? More less? Or drones of yesterday? Against drones, what is the best caliber?

This 57mm caliber was already used on the ZSU 2-57 1955-1960, but the sighting systems of that time could not de-energize the acceptable aiming accuracy, and the rate of fire 100-120 high. in min. was insufficient to ensure the density of fire for an acceptable probability of destruction (with existing aiming systems), therefore "the shilka with its 4000 rounds per minute had better efficiency.
Today's SLAs are able to eliminate the aforementioned drawback, and therefore the high rate of fire has lost its relevance, and the power of 57mm is an order of magnitude higher .... as that.

[lukke]

I will add that the upgraded PT-76 was equipped with a 57-mm machine gun and now the BMP-3m has one of the modifications with the same caliber. The increase in caliber and range is a consequence of the need to combat air and ground targets, because. the development of the latter also does not stand still. It's a pattern

[svd-xnumx]

and the power of 57mm is an order of magnitude higher .... request because something like that.

I also think that a 57 mm projectile can be equipped with a remote fuse and hit targets not with a projectile, but with a hail of fragments, which is still difficult to implement in 23 mm

[AlexAl]

Actually, a guided projectile in 57mm caliber is planned. Apparently something from the ZRS-57.
There will be control on the principle of pturs.

[goose]

Quote: svd-xnumx

I also think that a 57 mm projectile can be equipped with a remote fuse and hit targets not with a projectile, but with a hail of fragments, which is still difficult to implement in 23 mm

The only reason the 57mm can be used.

[aleks 62 next]

.... I also think that a 57 mm projectile can be equipped with a remote fuse and hit targets not with a projectile, but with a hail of fragments, which is still difficult to implement at 23 mm ...

... Now this is not a problem ... Even in the Second World War, the Amers and the British had compact radar fuses for anti-aircraft artillery .... On a modern element base, making such for a caliber of 23-30mm is not a problem ....

[aleks 62 next]

.... and the rate of fire is 100-120 high. in min. was insufficient to ensure the density of fire for an acceptable probability of destruction (with existing aiming systems), therefore "the shilka with its 4000 rounds per minute had better efficiency ....


..... That's right ... But you don't take into account the inevitability of shell scatter at some range ... But it will still be .... The 23mm caliber compensated for this with its rate of fire (the power of a second salvo) .... And now the main caliber of the fight against CD in the fleet, what we have, what they have is a caliber of 23-30mm ..... For example, AK-630 ...

[yehat]

the fleet does not have to deal with small spotters

[yehat]

the rate of fire has not lost its relevance, but 57mm has become more relevant.
I will add that 57mm already easily penetrates lightly armored targets, as well as
has a wider radius and height of the lesion. With UAVs, this is just important.

[Koshak]

Quote: 34 region

Is caliber important when using UAVs? What caliber is needed to shoot down a drone? More less? Or drones of yesterday? Against drones, what is the best caliber?

What's wrong with "Panzer"?

[Viking]

I join. There is also "Shell".

[yehat]

the shell, alas, looks cooler on paper than in life
there are complaints about the quality of fire and guns and missiles.

[kote119]

they showed a plot about the shell on TV: they fired cannons at a light drone, and they couldn’t shoot it down, I had to shoot with a rocket, to be honest, it surprised me

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: kote119

they showed a plot about the shell on TV: they fired cannons at a light drone, and could not bring it down,

Actually, if you think about it, you might not be surprised ..... Drones "in most cases, are small targets, and the 30-mm Shell" shells "as I assume, had only a remote self-destruction installation ... And "guessing" the triggering of a self-liquidator of a 30-mm projectile next to the target is a problem. I suppose that the main dream of the "shooters" from 30-mm anti-aircraft guns is to hit the projectile "right on target"! And getting "directly on the forehead" into a small-sized drone is a problem ! It is technically possible to "equip" a 30-mm projectile with a non-contact fuse, but it is not economically feasible (very expensive!); And the practical efficiency cannot be compared with a 40-45 (mm) "non-contact" projectile. I assume that small-caliber shells with "instantly" programmable fuses - "timers" would be "useful" to fight drones, given that drones fly at a constant height and at a constant speed for a significant part of the time. For this, anti-aircraft artillery installations must be equipped with systems fire control (FCS) with a laser rangefinder, a computer-programmer, an actuator (for example, on the barrel)

[Lex.]

Expensive, but not more expensive than a downed drone

[Bersaglieri]

It's not just the cost, but the size. A complex fuse, and even more so a homing head, even the most compact and modern "eat off" too much volume, and, in fact, there will be no room for an explosive charge in a small caliber.

[yehat]

perhaps simple high-explosive shells of medium-caliber guns 76..100mm would be effective against drones

[Aleks tv]

Quote: Koshak

What's wrong with "Panzer"?

The shell is a stationary ZRAK of the extreme line of air defense. Those. covers, for example, a nuclear power plant or S-400.

Tunguska - army air defense. This device can work with trunks AT ONCE, for which it has a good deal of respect among the ground crews.
Those. to cover a column on the march or when deployed in battalion and company columns, as well as in direct contact with the enemy, there is NO replacement for Tunguska.

The article was slightly alarming that they were talking about the new ZAK, and not ... ZRAK.
57mm is certainly not bad, but without rockets - nothing, only work in tandem with Thor. However, it will not be easy to cram 57mm ammunition, missiles and radar into one car ...
I hope that this is an ochepyatka fat and they still cook ZRAK.
Good luck to them.

[Shmal_]

Shilka in Chechnya was used to work on the ground! Its four trunks give a terrible density of fire! You can mow five-story buildings. Fortunately, the trunks descend into the horizon!

[Drmadfisher]

Shilka was used in this way in the Afghan. I have a friend who served 5 years in the DShB, he told me something

[CTEPX]

Quote: DrMadfisher

Shilka was used in this way in the Afghan.

Shilka in the fifth mode was used even before Afghanistan, in Vietnam, against the Chinese)).

[PHANTOM-AS]

Quote: ctepx

Shilka in the fifth mode was used even before Afghanistan, in Vietnam, against the Chinese)).

[PHANTOM-AS]

Quote from Shmal

Shilka in Chechnya was used to work on the ground! Its four trunks give a terrible density of fire! You can mow five-story buildings. Fortunately, the trunks descend into the horizon!

[1976AG]

More than once there was information about the "Shell" on a caterpillar track and capable of firing without stopping. What else does?

[yehat]

the shell is not a wheeled vehicle, it is a complex that can be shove literally anywhere

[PHANTOM-AS]

Quote: Aleks tv

Tunguska - army air defense. This device can work with trunks AT ONCE, for which it has a good deal of respect among the ground crews.
Those. to cover a column on the march or when deployed in battalion and company columns, as well as in direct contact with the enemy, there is NO replacement for Tunguska.

[PHANTOM-AS]

Quote: Aleks tv

The shell is a stationary ZRAK of the extreme line of air defense. Those. covers, for example, a nuclear power plant or S-400.

[iAi]

It's ZAK. I assume that it will be a universal fire support vehicle. Guided projectiles (against helicopters) and ATGMs will be launched from the bore.
There is no need to put more rockets.
SAMs will drive a different car.

[1976AG]

Yes, you are tormented by shooting down an UAV art installation! For interest, you can look at the average consumption of ammunition for the destruction of one air target. But the point is not only in the consumption of ammunition, but also in how much time you spend on it. While you shoot down 1 drone, you yourself will be destroyed 5 times.

[dvina71]

Quote: 1976AG

and you are tormented by shooting down an UAV art installation!

That's why they want 57mm. You can already stuff a decent charge and a programmable fuse into them. An explosion in the UAV area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbthe line of such yugasiks is guaranteed to destroy it.

[1976AG]

Quote: dvina71

Quote: 1976AG

and you are tormented by shooting down an UAV art installation!

That's why they want 57mm. You can already stuff a decent charge and a programmable fuse into them. An explosion in the UAV area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbthe line of such yugasiks is guaranteed to destroy it.

And what, "Tunguska", "Shell", MANPADS will not cope with this task? Why keep 20 different weapons when you can get by with two or three?

[NEXUS]

Quote: dvina71

That's why they want 57mm. You can already stuff a decent charge and a programmable fuse into them. An explosion in the UAV area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbthe line of such yugasiks is guaranteed to destroy it.

I’m wondering if this is the gun that is on the Baikal module for the T-15 ... the same caliber ...

[Alexey RA]

Quote: NEXUS

I’m wondering if this is the gun that is on the Baikal module for the T-15 ... the same caliber ...

And we have no other 57-mm gun, except for the A-220/220M.

"Petrel" has been worn with her for 40 years - but no one takes her. The Navy does not need it, since the same Burevestnik has a heavier, but more powerful AK-176.
And the army team did not need a 57-mm caliber either. For an infantry fighting vehicle, it is too big (either a normal ammunition for a cannon - or a landing force, plus recoil). For an ZSU, it has a low rate of fire and still an insufficient effective range: it was believed that the zone of possible ATGM launches from helicopters could be completely blocked only with the help of combined anti-aircraft missile and artillery vehicles, such as the Tunguska.

[yehat]

I wouldn't be so sure about the paperwork all UAV.

[Nikolaevich I]

When the Americans "distinguished themselves" in Vietnam with "anti-tank" helicopters, the topic: "how to effectively deal with fire support helicopters" became one of the "first" As a result of experiments, it turned out that one of the most effective means of fighting helicopters turned out to be medium (and more) calibers. Therefore, in NATO, the Italians developed (and, in my opinion, even adopted) an anti-helicopter self-propelled gun mount of 76-mm caliber ("Otto Mat"?); And in the USSR they seriously proposed to modernize and keep in service 57 -mm S-60 and ZSU-57-2 guns .... and even use upgraded 100-mm anti-aircraft guns. (But in the latter case, the main obstacle is poor mobility). "Everything flows, everything changes" and at present the effectiveness of "medium-caliber anti-aircraft guns" may be "in question" - "one thing" - the fight against helicopters equipped with ATGMs with a "range" of 4-6 km; and another "difference" - helicopter ATGMs with a "range" of 12-14 km (and in the near future, and more ...)

[yehat]

we are talking about 20-25 km

[Mexovoy]

To destroy small targets, the West will use laser weapons. Most likely, ours is developing something similar.

[avdkrd]

the effectiveness of an anti-aircraft (fragmentation) projectile 57mm is 10 times higher compared to 30mm, in addition, in a caliber of 57 mm it is possible to create a guided anti-aircraft projectile and work on this topic has already been carried out as part of the ZAK-57 Derivation of Air Defense. Another point is the effective firing range, even with a programmable detonation projectile for 57mm it will be 6-8 km for a helicopter-type target and 3-5km for an UAV, which is an unattainable range for 30mm. Missiles for combating UAVs are a very costly option, and 30 mm does not provide the necessary range and the ability to create a control system of acceptable cost and reliability.
. Aircraft, helicopters, UAVs, KR, UR, UAB, PRR
2. Range of defeat, km 0.2 - 6.0
3. The probability of being hit by two UAS 0.6 - 0.8
4. UAS rate of fire, rds / sec two shots
- single laser beam encoding in 1.0 – 1.5 s
- double coding of the laser beam four shots in 2 - 3 s.
5. Ammunition, pcs. at least 100 in any combination (determined by the base)
6. Target detection automated sector search, external CC

[Mama_Cholli]

Quote: 34 region

Is caliber important when using UAVs? What caliber is needed to shoot down a drone? More less? Or drones of yesterday? Against drones, what is the best caliber?

Caliber 57 mm will not save the situation. since modern drones can climb to a height of about 16-18 km. Here, only missiles, and a small quadrocopter with an attached iGo camera can also be visually shot down from a wearable automatic weapon. It's just that a 57 mm projectile can be made fragmentation (perhaps even with a remote fuse), which will dramatically increase combat effectiveness when used against low-flying cruise missiles and aircraft at altitudes of 3-5 km.

[avdkrd]

Quote: Mama_Cholli

Caliber 57 mm will not save the situation. since modern drones can climb to a height of about 16-18 km. Here, only missiles, and a small quadrocopter with an attached iGo camera can also be visually shot down from a wearable automatic weapon.

There is a "small" contradiction in your reasoning - those drones that are capable of climbing to a height of 16-18 km are not at all small. For example, a traitor with a ceiling of 7900m has a wingspan of 14.8m, and a small quadcopter with an attached iGo camera, even if it miraculously reaches a height of at least 6 km, will be basically useless because the weight of the hardware will be small. RQ-4 capable of climbing 20 km is not even a target for Buk, but for S-300 and 400, but we are discussing a self-propelled ZAK for direct cover of troops. Experts recognized the 57mm caliber as more effective than small-caliber systems, including for combating small-sized UAVs. It really seems to me that in order to combat such targets as a quadrocopter (essentially just flying cameras), electronic warfare and lasers will be more effective, since the composition of the equipment on them is minimal and it is difficult to protect it from such an impact.

[yehat]

at altitude, the drone is useless
quadrocopter can be shot down from Kalash
we are talking about those devices that are really dangerous, and these fly within a radius of good visibility of the optics and the launch of anti-aircraft guns (up to 8 km).

[sedoj]

Quote: Region 34

Against drones, what is the best caliber?

The one that is currently in stock.

[Razvedka_Boem]

Considering that now many drones are armed, a larger caliber of anti-aircraft guns will allow, if an UAV is detected, to attack it at a greater distance.

[Marconi41]

57mm is certainly good, but the rate of fire will be significantly reduced, at times. And if you look more closely, then anti-aircraft artillery has long become obsolete. I personally don’t even understand why they put it on new complexes. The famous Zushka is used almost exclusively for ground targets.

[avdkrd]

Quote: Marconi41

The famous Zushka is used almost exclusively for ground targets.

What is the point of comparing warm with soft? An automated complex and a gun mount with manual guidance? ZU-23-2 is even compared to Shilka like a slingshot compared to a pistol. The Tunguska is definitely hardly better than the Pantsir in terms of the guidance system, and there are claims against the Pantsir precisely in terms of combating UAVs. Missiles do not always have enough sensitivity, and they are expensive compared to corrected projectiles, and the range of 30mm guns has a limit of 2 km. The 57mm rate of fire is not that important due to the huge difference in power. The difference between 57 and 30 mm in the striking effect is not twice as it seems at first glance, but eight to ten times, plus a guided projectile.
ZUShka is used against ground targets in view of the fact that it mainly participates in low-intensity conflicts or on the side of a deliberately weaker enemy, whose air defense was suppressed by all the power of the shitocracy. In general, the ZU-23-2 even has Tomogawks (in Iraq). In Afghanistan and Chechnya, the ZUShki positions were suppressed in the first place and caused a lot of problems for our helicopters and SUShki.

[yehat]

question price. the question of effect and efficiency
we have not yet reached nanotechnologies capable of thickening clouds at the UAV flight site)))

[Per se.]

Quote: Ami du peuple

But 57 mm is better than 23 mm.

Is 12,7mm better than 7,62mm? If we are talking about an addition, this is one thing, but the motivation that the Tunguska has exhausted itself with 30 mm guns is somehow not very good, especially since it also has missiles.

Quote: Ami du peuple

Yes, let the designers design - that's why they are designers.

Designers should have competent customers, and it’s good if they are military, and not “menagers”, who only want to cut loot and master new means. Somewhere on the battlefield, the Tunguska does not yet see a reasonable replacement, especially if, in terms of size with 57 mm guns and missiles, it’s not even a van on the Kamaz, like the Pantsir, but something with a chassis, like at Topol. Let them think that everything is fine, that is not to the detriment of Russia's defense capability.

[mirag2]

In my opinion, 57mm is redundant for anti-aircraft guns, for infantry fighting vehicles, or similar light equipment, that’s it. But for anti-aircraft guns, 57 is still too much. ..

[kote119]

it is possible and necessary to modernize, but at the same time one must always move forward

[tol100v]

Quote: kote119

but you always have to keep moving forward.

In technology, without improvement it is impossible! Aircraft are being improved from generation to generation 3rd, 4th, 4+, 4++, 5th ... . Apparently, the term for "Shilka" and "Tunguska" is also coming to an end, although they have completed their task in full! Well, let's wait for "something" NEW!

[1976AG]

Quote: Tol100v

Quote: kote119

but you always have to keep moving forward.

In technology, without improvement it is impossible! Aircraft are being improved from generation to generation 3rd, 4th, 4+, 4++, 5th ... . Apparently, the term for "Shilka" and "Tunguska" is also coming to an end, although they have completed their task in full! Well, let's wait for "something" NEW!

Is replacing ZRAK with a memory an improvement?

[Nik_One]

To tell the truth the strange decision... What for it is necessary now? Why is Tunguska or Shell not satisfied?

[AdekvatNICK]

well, when? when it will be necessary to do this, it will be too late. Moreover, until it is created, then its "need" will come

[1976AG]

In the memory version, never.

[Tusv]

Quote: Nik_One

To tell the truth the strange decision... What for it is necessary now? Why Tunguska or Shell does not suit

A little reminded "partners" where it is forbidden to fly.
Today, somehow massively, VO advertises air defense. Someone must have been hit today

[34 region]

Why advertise? It's purely economic. The cost of an aircraft or the cost of air defense? War is a battle of economies. This is in short.

[Tusv]

Quote: 34 region

Why advertise? It's purely economic. The cost of an aircraft or the cost of air defense? War is a battle of economies.

That is why the C300 has not yet shot down anyone in a quarter of a century. Advertising, however, and kamikaze have disappeared. Just like that
And purely economically, air defense is more expensive by default

[Sanya Terek]

December 26 this year - The 100th anniversary of the military air defense, that's why they advertise. And as for the caliber of anti-aircraft weapons, firstly, the Tunguska does not reach a UAV flying at an altitude of over 2500 m in height (these are the worst), Shilka - all the more so, and secondly, small-sized UAVs have electric motors with with minimal thermal radiation, respectively, "Arrows" and "Needles" will not capture them. And to shoot down such UAVs with missiles "Torov" and "Os" is too expensive.

[seos]

An air blast projectile flying at a speed of 1000 m / s for 8 km is cheaper than a rocket .... with modern technology, I think you can create a normal anti-aircraft gun.

[34 region]

1km per second! And if a drone flies or hovering? How to be here? How to get into this fly?

[corporal]

Quote: Region 34

And if a drone flies or hovering? How to be here? How to get into this fly?

1-SLA determines the direction and range
2-actuators point the barrel
3-SLA transmits data to a programmable projectile
4-shot
5-shell explodes in the target area and covers with a cloud of fragments
So, in short and simple.

[Tusv]

Quote: Corporal

1-SLA determines the direction and range
2-actuators point the barrel
3-SLA transmits data to a programmable projectile
4-shot
5-shell explodes in the target area and covers with a cloud of fragments
So, in short and simple.

In Kratz and in a simple way. Imagine such a cannon that will deliver a smart projectile to a height of 10 thousand meters with a hundredweight of striking elements. Introduced?
And imagine that enemy aircraft flies lightly at Mach 50 and a half. That is, the deviation vector is 300 km. Covering such a radius is not a fig, not XNUMX shells, but for two missiles this is not a problem

[Tusv]

Quote: seos

An air blast projectile flying at a speed of 1000 m / s for 8 km is cheaper than a rocket .... with modern technology, I think you can create a normal anti-aircraft gun

What century do you live in? Are you saying that 300 barrage shells are cheaper than one missile?

[KaPToC]

One rocket will not replace three hundred barrage shots.

[Freeman]

Right. The standard report at the command post is "Target hit. Consumption - two."

[1976AG]

Quote: seos

An air blast projectile flying at a speed of 1000 m / s for 8 km is cheaper than a rocket .... with modern technology, I think you can create a normal anti-aircraft gun.

Of course it's cheaper IF IT HAPPENS.

[Tusv]

Quote: 1976AG

Of course it's cheaper IF IT HAPPENS.

Women say it's 50/50 to meet a dinosaur, but probability theory says 0,00000000001. You need to learn math so as not to talk nonsense about a super-duper anti-aircraft gun that shoots down planes with smart shells, whose initial speed is comparable to the maximum speed of the thirty-first Mig

[1976AG]

[quote = Tusv] [quote = 1976AG] Of course it's cheaper IF IT HAPPENS. [/ quote]
Women say it's 50/50 to meet a dinosaur, but probability theory says 0,00000000001. You need to learn math so as not to talk nonsense about a super-duper anti-aircraft gun that shoots down planes with smart shells, whose initial speed is comparable to the maximum speed of the thirty-first Mig [/ qu

Agree! And for some reason, half of the members of the forum believe that anti-aircraft guns are more effective than ZRAK. Some kind of mass confusion.

[KaPToC]

This is because you invented a stupid black and white world for yourself and believe in it, anti-aircraft guns and missiles do not replace each other, but complement each other.

[Freeman]

The main enemy of tanks on the march, and even when deployed in battle formations, are helicopters, so you need to get them at maximum distance. And from the plane, at its speeds, you still need to hit the tank.

[1976AG]

Quote: Freeman

The main enemy of tanks on the march, and even when deployed in battle formations, are helicopters, so you need to get them at maximum distance. And from the plane, at its speeds, you still need to hit the tank.

Right. It just needs to be clarified that attack helicopters have missile weapons, the range of which is much greater than ZSU. And if the ZRAK type "Tunguska" or "Shell" has a chance to destroy it, then "Shilka" has no chance.

[Alf]

Quote: Nik_One

To tell the truth the strange decision... What for it is necessary now?

Usually, after adopting one model, the design bureau immediately begins developing the next one. This is normal practice. This is the only way to stay in the favorites of an exciting, albeit expensive race.

[SSeT]

range, reach in height and PSU consumption. Only in the 57th caliber can this be solved

[sivuch]

UAS can be plugged into 57mm

[iAi]

They make a universal fire support vehicle. It is the anti-aircraft artillery complex (without missiles) (without missiles on this platform, the missiles will be on another machine)
Tunguska and Pantsir are not satisfied with the effectiveness of the fight against UAVs. They will be clouds. The range of a 30mm projectile is not that great, and the rocket is too expensive.
The new 57mm shells will have an airburst, so there is no need for a rate of fire. You can shoot at enemy infantry in the trenches, in the mountains, in the city; for light armored vehicles.

[chunga-changa]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Is it really true????

The source is incomprehensible, I would wait for a statement from the MO.

[hydrox]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Is it really true????

I couldn't believe my eyes: for 70 "200" ISIS only 4 "300" Syrians in an offensive battle.

WE ARE THE FIRST IN ROBOTIC NETWORK WAR!!!!!!!

[GRAY]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Is it really true????

The sources are painfully yellowish.
But in general, it is possible that Syria is full of bearded guinea pigs, it’s a sin not to use them.

[1976AG]

Not true. There are no combat robots in the Russian Army yet.

[tol100v]

Quote: 1976AG

no combat robots.

But there are BATTLE SOLDIERS!

[1976AG]

Quote: Tol100v

Quote: 1976AG

no combat robots.

But there are BATTLE SOLDIERS!

And what are non-combat soldiers?

[1976AG]

What are you minus? Or do you consider radio-controlled modules to be robots? So it is possible to call any children's radio-controlled toy a robot! Think what is a robot?

[Nikolaevich I]

Yes, modern "uninhabited" combat platforms cannot yet be called "full" robots; but now it’s not just a “radio-controlled module (like a toy)”. Even now, developers are trying to equip their products with “artificial intelligence elements” - (as they are “expressed”). But the fact that they equip their “cars” with remote control is known from the last century, it is: 1. just in case; 2. Many do not immediately get rid of "conservatism of thinking". I am sure that even in 20 years, when fully robotic, uninhabited tanks, air defense systems and so on appear, they will provide (just in case) "manual" control.

[shans2]

"platform m" has already begun to be produced in SERIES ....

[1976AG]

Quote: shans2

"platform m" has already begun to be produced in SERIES ....

So what, what started to be produced? Platform M is a conventional radio-controlled module. What kind of robot is this?

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: 1976AG

Not true. There are no combat robots in the Russian Army yet.

And here, perhaps, you are not right! On TV channels, remote-controlled, robotic platforms have been demonstrated more than once ... 1. "sapper" - for detection and demining; 2. patrols ... and so on.

[vodolaz]

My father served in the late 60s in the air defense and talked about Shilka, I think it's time to replace her.

[Basarev]

I hope the new anti-aircraft self-propelled gun will not be a simple upgrade of the ZSU-57-2.

[GRAY]

Quote: Basarev

I hope the new anti-aircraft self-propelled gun will not be a simple upgrade of the ZSU-57-2.

Most likely, they will take the AU-220M as the basis, make a twin and hang missiles.

[SSR]

Quote: The same Lech

Maybe it’s still better to upgrade TUNGUSKA to an Apache range of 10 km ... it’s cheaper than building a new installation ... there’s not much money in the budget for a new development.

Amazing news of the day...


In Syria, the Russian army threw combat robots into battle

http://warfiles.ru/show-104009-vpervye-v-sirii-armiya-rossii-brosila-v-boy-boevy




h-robotov.html


Is it really true????

It is very embarrassing that the operators were in Moscow, the connection should be perfect without delays, ours, with obvious successes, will not hide such information, I hope that we will see confirmation.

[Homo]

The words "... with the support of Russian paratroopers ..." reduce the news to "stuffing"!

[APASUS]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

In Syria, the Russian army threw combat robots into battle

Description of the battle http://beriozka-rus.livejournal.com/431194.htmlmixed feelings after reading, in theory we should be proud, but I can’t believe that we have reached such a level

[yehat]

battle description
http://www.animespirit.ru/anime/rs/series-rus/84-mobilnyj-voin-gandam-00-pervyj-
season-mobile-suit.html

[dmi.pris1]

Maybe it makes sense to modify the "Shell" on a caterpillar platform?

Quote: The same Lech

Maybe it’s still better to upgrade TUNGUSKA to an Apache range of 10 km ... it’s cheaper than building a new installation ... there’s not much money in the budget for a new development.

Amazing news of the day...


In Syria, the Russian army threw combat robots into battle

http://warfiles.ru/show-104009-vpervye-v-sirii-armiya-rossii-brosila-v-boy-boevy




h-robotov.html


Is it really true????

[I am Russian]

This device works in Novorossia. And not very bad.

[I am Russian]

A bit more.

[family tree]

Well, okay, "Shilka" 23-4, after all, artillery, but "Tungusska" artillery-rocket. Yes, at least 85 with POISOT, homing heads, and missile maneuverability will not replace. 57, shoot higher, but less often. Either the author didn’t finish it, or grunted amateurishly, urya, they say
Damn, this looks like bullshit to me. I'm waiting for comments from specialists from air defense specialists. Hopeless, but "Nadyusha will live beyond us"

[family tree]

Quote: I-Russian

A bit more.

Acquaintances with the gusli, native sloth, judging by the photomorde, the leader, reminds of something. But the supporting ones with a horizontal shock absorber . Well, let's say the "carrot" begins to rest along the way. Damn, Christie's improvisation, the only thing to add is the seventh. Cars don’t walk like that in sputum, It’s better to have more points of support, you can, of course, the harp is more massive, only, not a tractor, tea, speed won’t hurt her
Internet slows down, tried to find it myself From whom hodovka, then?
Oh, I’m fighting back, I’m heading to work ..., today already, I guessed it, damn it!

[Dyagilev]

Amazing news of the day...

It looks like they used the means that Putin spoke about.

[cap]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Amazing news of the day...


In Syria, the Russian army threw combat robots into battle

The guy earns on advertising. This is an ordinary stuffing, under the news.
Got to the author is in 56 communities on the Internet. This is the work. He has. Not me.

[Mountain shooter]

Twin 57 mm anti-aircraft gun with S-60 ballistics. Well, with missiles, such as from the "Shell". It will be a very serious monster. Which is typical, both in the air and on the ground. What will a line of such "shells" do, even if it hits a tank. This is practically an anti-tank ZIS-2, which did an excellent job with the "Tigers" during the Second World War. Yes, with computer guidance, yes, a machine gun, and with two barrels. Shells with a radio fuse, as on anti-aircraft missiles. And even with a passive seeker, when the target is illuminated from the installation. And in general, you can think of a lot of things, having a pair of automatic guns with such ballistics.

[psiho117]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

This is practically an anti-tank ZIS-2, which did an excellent job with the "Tigers"

Hurray, Tovarischi! 11 We hit the tiger in the forehead with bursts!
another nonsense about the ZIS-2 from another "expert". It’s already sickening to poke your nose and tell that it’s completely different calibers.

[Raven1972]

Quote: psiho117

another nonsense about the ZIS-2 from another "expert

Quote: psiho117

It’s already sickening to poke your nose and tell that these are completely different calibers.

Doa, you are certainly a "specialist", how do you forgive a 57mm Zis-2 caliber from a 57mm S-60? As? Didn't confuse anything?

[psiho117]

Quote: Raven1972

Doa, you are certainly a "specialist", how do you forgive a 57mm Zis-2 caliber from a 57mm S-60? As? Didn't confuse anything?

Nope, I didn't. And for some, it would not hurt to learn some history, learn more materiel, and, well, reduce ambition: in the 57mm shot for the ZIS-2, a cartridge case from a 76-millimeter divisional cannon was used with recompression of the muzzle of the cartridge case from 76 to 57 millimeters. It had an armor-piercing projectile weighing 3,14 kg and more than half a meter long.

A 57mm anti-aircraft gun is an independent caliber using a 57 × 348 mm SR projectile

[Raven1972]

well, reduce ambition: in a 57mm shot for the ZIS-2, a sleeve from a 76-mm divisional gun was used

But the caliber of the gun remained 57 !!!! mm But for example, it didn’t become 76.2 mm, I’m talking to you about this !!! And then who does not know the materiel? You confuse CALIBER with SHOT, and the caliber is the same here and there - 57mm, so I can advise you the same thing - less ambition

[Raven1972]

Quote: Raven1972

You confuse CALIBER with SHOT, and the caliber is the same here and there - 57mm, so I can advise you the same thing - less ambition

P.S. I didn’t have time to fix it (((The shot is different, the CALIBER is the same - 57mm))

[opus]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Is it really true????

It's true and it's good!
not only Kamchadalam to have fun




They brought it in vain, didn't they?

Result:

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Maybe it’s still better to upgrade TUNGUSKA to an Apache range of 10 km ...

Actually, "Tunguska" can "shoot" up to 10 km ... for the Tunguska-M1 air defense system, a 9M311-1M missile with a range of up to 10 km was developed. "There is" and r. 9M311-1E (although it was "created" for the ship's "Kashtan-M") with a range of up to 10 km and "altitude" - up to 6 km. Also, one of the "purposes" of the Sosna-R missile (9M337) - the Tunguska air defense system ..... ("Sosna-R" - inclining distance = up to 10 km; reaching in height = up to 5 km)

[vkl-47]

I present a shilka with 4 57mm guns. You can saw this unit at home

[Ramzaj99]

Shilka in Syria performed well outside of the profile, as an excellent anti-sniper and anti-ATR. A sort of cheap analogue of the BMPT Terminator. She would have new optics, and a newer sighting system, in my opinion, it would turn out to be quite a good and cheap version of the BMPT.

[Sivan]

Quote: The same Lech

The amazing news of the day ... In Syria, the Russian army threw combat robots into battle

http://warfiles.ru/show-104009-vpervye-v-sirii-armiya-rossii-brosila-v-boy-boevy
h-robotov.html
Is it really true????

This is nonsense, a blatant provocation. In this article, all the pictures from the exercises. And then, there was no information that our paratroopers were fighting there. This is a provocation of the level of the ancient ukrosmi.

[kostya-petrov]

She does not fly herself, and does not let others!
Nice unit!!!

[izya top]

"Tunguska" and "Shilka" will not lose their relevance for a long time. I hope that in connection with such a statement they will not be put on a joke and will not be allowed to go on sale

[1976AG]

And what is the relevance of "Shilka" as an air defense system? Shoot down paper kites? And why is "Shell" bad? It's not about the caliber.

[seos]

The shell of the gun has useless processes ... only in case of self-defense if the missiles run out ... and here the range is like that of the shell but with Deshman shells.

[1976AG]

First, God forbid you fall under these "useless shoots"! Secondly, who in modern warfare are you going to hit with cannons (what air targets)?

[Pilat2009]

Quote: 1976AG

Secondly, who are you going to hit with cannons in modern warfare (what air targets)?

Helicopters and rockets

[1976AG]

I asked for whom in the MODERN WAR? Look at the performance characteristics of weapons of modern helicopters, missiles and try to answer again.

[just exp]

And ? plz tell me what kind of performance characteristics prevent you from shooting at helicopters and missiles from cannons?

[Pilat2009]

Quote: 1976AG

Look at the performance characteristics of weapons of modern helicopters, missiles and try to answer again

The range of the 57 mm gun will allow you to reach your helicopters, and the use of proximity fuses does not require an accurate hit.
In addition, you seem to be suggesting not to fight helicopters at all?
The same goes for Tomahawk missiles.

[34 region]

In the Patriotic War, anti-aircraft guns and tanks were hit. Is it possible today? Are there any experts on these issues?

[just exp]

Well, the body kit will be demolished for sure, but no more, although if you gasp into the stern, they can burn the tank.

[yehat]

firstly, almost all NATO tanks will not be able to withstand even a short burst of shilka into the side until now.
secondly, the secondary impact from the burst of shells is so great - shaking, noise, fragments inside, etc., that the tank may not be destroyed, but for some time it will simply lose the ability to fight
finally, the third - a dense burst will literally destroy EVERYTHING that is nailed by a 20mm projectile, i.e. the tank will be left without optics, active armor, headlights, night vision devices, etc. Most likely, the undercarriage will also be damaged, and the turret may jam.

[SSeT]

By drones, missiles and helicopters, for example

[Tusv]

Quote: seos

The shell of the gun has useless processes ... only in case of self-defense if the missiles run out

Something tells me that the guns in the Military Acceptance Missed on purpose to confirm the effectiveness of one rocket launch

[Cruorvult]

Shilka lost its relevance at the dawn of its appearance, since there is no way to fight jet aircraft with a firing range of less than 4 km. Even old helicopter ATGMs have a minimum range of 6 km. As I understand it, ours do not just want to replace the Tunguskas, but they will create a complex + new shells, and they will also be used not on ships. By the way, there were excellent articles about modern 57 mm anti-aircraft systems in the Navy like Italy.

[Cruorvult]

Shilka lost its relevance at the dawn of its appearance, since there is no way to fight jet aircraft with a firing range of less than 4 km. Even old helicopter ATGMs have a minimum range of 6 km. As I understand it, ours do not just want to replace the Tunguskas, but they will create a complex + new shells (sub-calibers, land mines with remote detonation can be controlled), and they will also be used not on ships. By the way, there were excellent articles about modern 57 mm anti-aircraft systems in the Navy like Italy.

[moskowit]

I hope that the trend in honor of the East Siberian rivers will continue in the names.

[Great-grandfather of Zeus]

The old woman "Shilka" has been in service since the 62nd year! She proved her effectiveness in many local wars. The car showed itself to all 100 - I remember how officers who were still in Vietnam told me - her appearance there was a shock for the Yankees. God forbid that the new ZSUshka just like her adventress, she was an unpleasant surprise for the adversary.

[Same lech]

Just on topic....
c

[seos]

And the club was an unpleasant surprise for the Neanderthals ...

[Barakuda]

And this is not enough? As I understand it, the concept of "direct cover" has been changing for a long time already ..

[just exp]

shell to protect stationary objects, they want to immediately replace the tunguska, this is military air defense.

[Dazdranagon]

Quote: just explo

shell to protect stationary objects, they want to immediately replace the tunguska, this is military air defense.

- what is the difference? The shell seems to know how to ride.

[Blad_21617]

Do they want to build ZSU 57-2 in a new way?

[Signal]

I don't understand either. At one time, neither the Americans nor we had a sensible complex with this (or similar) caliber. What has fundamentally changed now to return to this decision?

[Barakuda]

A couple of barrels will be attached to the ZSU 2-57, and six missiles from the Torah-Shell will be screwed on
Just kidding, of course, but who knows, maybe the projectile will be smart.

[just exp]

make a laser-guided projectile.

[seos]

The Germans have 35mm cannons that shoot down mortar mines ... They are already switching from cannons to lasers.

[Barakuda]

What computer game is this?

[Thunderbolt]

http://www.bratishka.ru/archiv/2013/01/2013_1_3.php

[SSeT]

Technology has stepped on several generations, for example. Explain or make up your own mind?

[psiho117]

Quote: Signal

At one time, neither the Americans nor we had a sensible complex with this (or similar) caliber. What has fundamentally changed now to return to this decision?

The microelectronic base has changed. At the same time, it has changed so much that some iPhone can now replace the entire computing stuffing of the Tunguska.
It also became possible to make shells controllable, adjustable, guided by a laser, by a radio beam, any whim.
And not at the price of a car per shot.

[jovanni]

A difficult task for developers! That "Shilka", that "Tunguska" raised the bar in their segment very sharply ...

[sober]

Platform-m

[podgornovea]

TIGHTENED!

"To replace our Tunguska and Shilka complexes, a new promising anti-aircraft artillery system in 57 mm caliber is being developed," Leonov said, without specifying either the development timeline or the name of the new weapon.

Anti-aircraft artillery complex, that is, non-aircraft missile and artillery system, I understood correctly, or did the "translator" :) make a mistake?

The targets of the 57-mm caliber are not clear: cruise missiles, lightly armored vehicles, aircraft, helicopters, light shelters, what else? It is clear that somewhere it will be much more effective, but in other cases the opposite is true.
The rate of fire drops by an order of magnitude, accuracy is a big question.
Either these should be adjustable shells or very high accuracy is needed. The firing range, as well as the height of the defeat, of course, increases, but at what minimum heights will the detection and guidance means of this system work?

[1976AG]

They blurted out, as in their time with the double-barreled "Coalition"! As a result, of course, they made a single-barrel, but how many discussions were around! Maybe just dez.

[Nikolaevich I]

Lord! Why are you - "from empty to empty"! Let's wait and see! It is likely that the "promised" complex will turn out to be the same 57-mm gun for the new modification of the BMP-3 ... all the more so in this case "there was a promise" give the gun an anti-aircraft shell.

[kirpich]

Quote: Nik_One

To tell the truth the strange decision... What for it is necessary now? Why is Tunguska or Shell not satisfied?

Maybe because the design idea does not stand still, but moves progress forward? After all, aviation is developing, introducing some kind of innovation to break through the enemy’s defenses. So why not oppose it with something more modern than Shilka, Tunguska, or Pantsir?

[Nik_One]

Quote: kirpich

Maybe because the design idea does not stand still, but moves progress forward? After all, aviation is developing, introducing some kind of innovation to break through the enemy’s defenses. So why not oppose it with something more modern than Shilka, Tunguska, or Pantsir?

Of course, the process is moving forward and science is developing. That is precisely why in modern technology it is not the caliber that is more important, but the speed of detection and the accuracy of the hit. Everything is clear with "Shilka", she has served her life as an air defense. It is clear that the "Tunguska" and "Shell" can and should be modernized. But, as already mentioned above, the only thing that is not clear is for what purposes an increase in caliber to 57 mm is needed.

[KaPToC]

Size matters

[corporal]

Quote: Nik_One

for what purposes is it necessary to increase the caliber to 57 mm.

1 - greater ammunition power than 23-30-40-45
2-under it is easier to make a programmable fuse.
3-for this caliber, they are trying or already making guided tips (nose parts, or whatever they are called correctly), which correct the flight of the projectile (it is clear that within some degrees, but still ..), which turn the "blank" into a guided projectile.
Therefore, the new system should have pluses ..

[psiho117]

Quote: Corporal

3-for this caliber, they are trying or are already making guided tips (nose parts) that correct the flight of the projectile (it is clear that within some degrees, but still ..), which turn the "blank" into a guided projectile.

in fact, the Italian "Otomatic" in 76mm caliber already had an adjustable shell. And they claimed that they could repeat the technology up to 35mm caliber - however, with miniaturization, the cost increased by orders of magnitude, and therefore they chose such a rather large caliber.
But this is the technological level of the 80s!
Now, with a modern microelectronic base, absolutely any whim is possible, they are already developing 12,7 guided bullets.
So it's high time to move from an extensive to an intensive path of development of ZSU - instead of wasting hundreds of shells, cover with a short burst of 3-4 larger, but adjustable ones, and from a distance. undermining.

[ded100]

What to argue, itunguska and shilka will serve as well as the new complex will come in handy and we need to come up with even newer ideas, but we will sleep more peacefully !!!

[Skynet]

No, well, "Shilka" should be replaced a long time ago!

[kirpich]

WELL SHCHAZ! Don't touch the silk!

[Alexander 3]

Shilka is highly valued by Assad's military. It is an irreplaceable weapon in urban areas. Igilovites hide from it like rats under the ground.

[iouris]

"Shilka" is an effective and multifunctional weapon. "Tunguska" has just been put into service. There are probably questions about its effectiveness and versatility. The need for the third complex raises big questions and is not obvious in terms of the financial condition of the state. However, there can be no objections to funding R&D.

[1976AG]

"Tunguska" has just been put into service ???!!! She was put into service in 1982! Is 33 years old just what do you think? Then some general phrases - "Shilka" is an effective and multifunctional weapon. "Effective, but not as a means of air defense. And what is its multifunctionality?

[kirpich]

the multifunctionality of Shilka is that when two Shilka pulled a thread in Afghanistan, the spirits thought 100500 times - attack not attack.

[1976AG]

Quote: kirpich

the multifunctionality of Shilka is that when two Shilka pulled a thread in Afghanistan, the spirits thought 100500 times - attack not attack.

I asked about the usefulness of "Shilka" in the MODERN WAR, and you again about the events of 30-40 years ago!

[kirpich]

I repeat. Modern drones and quadrocopters just fall within the range of confident destruction of the "Shilka" ... and of course the "Tunguska"

[1976AG]

Quote: kirpich

I repeat. Modern drones and quadrocopters just fall within the range of confident destruction of the "Shilka" ... and of course the "Tunguska"

Drones do not fall within the range of confident destruction of "Shilka". Again, in modern warfare, its effectiveness as an air defense weapon is close to zero, and given the availability of more effective weapons, it is simply wasteful.

[iouris]

These are all examples of just "modern wars". We are no longer Marxist-Leninists, but imperialists. A nuclear war with "colleagues" is unlikely, but "conflicts of civilizations" along the "North-South" line cannot be avoided. And there, for the time being, there are mainly large masses of fanatics, armed not with lasers, but with AK-47s and a "shaitan-pipe".

[1976AG]

Quote: iouris

These are all examples of just "modern wars". We are no longer Marxist-Leninists, but imperialists. A nuclear war with "colleagues" is unlikely, but "conflicts of civilizations" along the "North-South" line cannot be avoided. And there, for the time being, there are mainly large masses of fanatics, armed not with lasers, but with AK-47s and a "shaitan-pipe".

Do you consider clashes with bandits a modern military conflict?! By "modern" I mean high-tech. Only by preparing for war with a strong enemy can independence be preserved.

[Dewa1s]

And what kind of high-tech enemy are you going to fight without using nuclear weapons?

[Diviz]

57 mm was shown at an exhibition in Nizhny Tagil Derivation.

[kirpich]

For some reason it seems to me that "Shilka" will still serve. Now all the aircraft have suddenly become addicted to drones and quadrocopters. And, these badies don't fly that high. Just in the ranges of heights available to "Shilka" ... and "Tunguska" ...

[KaPToC]

Shilka, to put it mildly, is redundant against most drones

[iliitchitch]

From "Shilka" and by drone. Isn't it oily for a drone? I understand if shock. And it’s easier to bring down vzhikov. A PC and a normal warrior to boot, and "a belly from a fan", just don't save cartridges - and that quadrocopter died, ugh, yo, you'll break your tongue about these copters. It's easier to shoot down than to write.

[would]

Purely for reference: Reconnaissance mini-UAVs easily have a size of up to 2 meters and can fly at an altitude of 2 km or even more. Question: How to get such a small-sized and low-radiating target at such a high altitude? In a number of conflicts, they hit on such targets from anything, collected all heavy machine guns, all armored personnel carriers, all Zushki and hit them so that the earth trembled. Huge density of fire, but all to no avail. Personally, I find it funny to read how some comrades write about using light machine guns against such targets.

In order to shoot down such a baby, completely different characteristics of pointing accuracy, dispersion, and the affected area are needed. I'm not talking about detection yet.

[kapitan92]

Colleagues! It is not clear when a promising model with a caliber of 57mm will appear, so the Tunguska and Shilka will still "work".
"Shilochka", I would hand over to the infantry, an irreplaceable thing at heights and checkpoints. A small dismantling and a "terminator" is ready, just bring boxes of ammunition.

[iliitchitch]

Intuition tells you that a hefty queue will be built behind the used "Shilka" and "Tunguska". Well, for those grandmas and the new one, you can see for the future. ALREADY . In stock . Sergey Kuzhugetovich is a horror for the pintagon, the whole country will study the fifth corner, poor fellows.

[gla172]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oOhy_mSugo

[TOR2]

This is already a dill harvester ...

[egsp]

Shilka is not needed for air defense in the 21st century, forgive me the graduates of the Poltava School. but since it is praised in the infantry, let them take it for themselves. They will rename it to "machine-gun self-propelled crew", put up armor and go ahead: on manpower, equipment and fortifications.
How to shoot down a UAV? You need to think, count and apply ingenuity. Let the KBs rack their brains. Mini rockets, electronic warfare equipment, a laser, a "Jedi sword" - everything will do.

[1976AG]

Quote: egsp

Shilka is not needed for air defense in the 21st century, forgive me the graduates of the Poltava School. but since it is praised in the infantry, let them take it for themselves. They will rename it to "machine-gun self-propelled crew", put up armor and go ahead: on manpower, equipment and fortifications.
How to shoot down a UAV? You need to think, count and apply ingenuity. Let the KBs rack their brains. Mini rockets, electronic warfare equipment, a laser, a "Jedi sword" - everything will do.

One of the few sensible comments!
And now there are much more effective means for removing UAVs!

[kirpich]

Name at least a couple.

[kirpich]

Didn't minus. So you think that Shilka is not suitable at altitudes up to 1500 m? At altitudes of 3-3,5 km "Tunguska" is nonsense? I won’t say anything about the "Shell" at all.
So answer, which UAV, or quadric, will risk entering the affected area of ​​​​these "uselessness"

[Barakuda]

Quote: sanya.vorodis

Will they call on gamers to be operators?

Well, if on the horizontal bar he squeezes himself 15 times, runs 3 km according to the standard .. The standard for shooting, the polygraph test will pass ... I really hope for it...

[HARDDEN_KMV]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV-sPIBWWZ8 на траки поставить!

[Edvid]

Historical fact.
Even before the entry of Soviet troops into Afghanistan, the USSR Ministry of Defense decided to decommission the Shilka artillery system as obsolete. However, a small number of them at the initial stage were used against spooks as ground cover. In this capacity, the Shilka turned out to be the most effective melee weapon and performed very well. Dushmans called "Shilka" "Shaitan-arba". Based on the experience gained, a large number of these artillery systems were transferred to Afghanistan.

[Freeman]

Something similar, only in a towed (actually stationary) version, the USSR had back in the 50s.
Anti-aircraft artillery complex S-60
http://www.rusarmy.com/pvo/pvo_vsk/zak_s-60.html
Anti-aircraft artillery complex KS-19
http://www.rusarmy.com/pvo/pvo_vsk/zak_ks-19.html
And where is it written that 57 mm will be made according to the ZSU 57-2 scheme, and they will not assemble another "gatling" on a self-propelled chassis, and even with "smart" shells.

[pilot bin-bom]

Found something to surprise. We make a request "Belarus. Tetrahydr. buy" and you will be happy.

[Donbass2014]

I think the best option would be to put the Pantsir 1C on the conveyor production with its installation on the Armata platform, and stuff it with an electronic warfare system ... :) :) :)

[Nikolaevich I]

And on the "Kira" to "put" the "Shell" on the expensive platform "Armata" ??? What are you? Are you going to crush the city barricades with the "Shell"?

[Wolka]

yes, let there be more of both new and old modernized ones, it’s not for nothing that they say everything new is well-forgotten old, and the projectile is 57mm. it’s better to make it thermobarric with remote triggers so that it burns out completely, but if in fact, in my opinion it’s more effective to deal with small-sized flying aircraft such as drones, it’s better with laser guns, the height and speed of movement of the flying aircraft will completely allow it to be successfully hit, visually everything is like on a rifle stand, and in bad weather such doves do not fly, there are satellites for this ...

[Nikolaevich I]

In the last century, the French experimented with a 40-barreled anti-aircraft MLRS of 37-mm caliber. Maybe there is something in this? and "instantly" -programmable fuses - "timers" for air blasting (the use of corrected C-20s according to the "RCIC method" is not ruled out) - and let's go against drones !?

[Nikolaevich I]

PS By the way, there is such a "method" of aiming shells, which is very suitable for use in small-caliber ammunition. "Developers" promise that it will be "cheap and cool"! Such shells are used in "bursts". According to the "master-slave" principle ... "It is taken", for example, a series of 5 shells - one shell "begins" with the electronics of the control system (homing) and therefore does not have explosives (there is no longer any places); the remaining 4 shells have: GGE, explosives, a simple (maybe the simplest) guidance system for the "beacon" in the "leading" shell ....

[Nikolaevich I]

In the last century, the French experimented with a 40-barreled 37-mm anti-aircraft MLRS. Maybe there is something to this? Take OB-20, hang ZU-23-2 on the "carriage", add S-8 with warheads of increased "fragmentation" and "instantly" -programmable fuses - "timers" of air blasting (you can "mention" S-8, adjusted according to "method" RCIC); a laser rangefinder, a computer programmer, an actuator for programming the S-8 fuse as part of the SLA-and let's go against drones !?

[vkl-47]

Quote: 34 region

Is caliber important when using UAVs? What caliber is needed to shoot down a drone? More less? Or drones of yesterday? Against drones, what is the best caliber?

Drones can jam and take control of electronic warfare. And this is a machine to chop rockets and airplanes like nuts. But what about armored car planes in a 57mm flight?

[would]

In theory, electronic warfare can, in reality, it often cannot and simply shrug. Well, let's say they drowned out ... and all modern UAVs are automated and, after losing communication, they begin to execute a given scenario, which can be a continuation of the task. Interception of control of modern UAVs is generally now something of a phenomenon for a number of reasons.

[yanus]

Good news.
I would prefer that a new chassis not be developed - take the CU chassis from the T72, of which there is a shaft.
With such a chassis, such a memory can be used to support troops at the forefront. At the same time saving - no need to do. The safety margin of the BU t72 is sufficient, in addition, this platform has been worked out, reliable, and is known among the troops.
You can try to use the control unit for the chassis of the first batches of the BMP-3. Protection is not as serious, but the cost of operation is much less.

[forumow]

I think such an installation is not needed as a specialized ZSU! But as a multifunctional tool, as part of an infantry fighting vehicle, an infantry fighting vehicle is another matter. For use on air targets, take target designation from an air defense system or an artillery reconnaissance radar, such as "Zoo". Here you should not be limited only to medium calibers, but also apply the same principle to tanks and self-propelled guns. Of course, the possibility of such integration should be provided in the design initially or in the course of modernization. Thus, all self-propelled artillery and armored vehicles, which have the ability to automatically target, can, if necessary, be included in the fire calculation of the air defense of the SV grouping, which will significantly increase the complexity of the air attack task for the enemy.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: forumow

For use on air targets, take target designation from an air defense system or an artillery reconnaissance radar, such as "Zoo".

Target designation is, of course, good and noble ... but in order to conduct aimed fire at air targets, you also need your own sighting system with tracking radar, a set of fire control devices and powerful and accurate aiming drives. And all this weighs pretty decently + takes up the volume of the fighting compartment.

If everything were so simple, then BMPs based on the Tunguska or Shilka would have appeared long ago.

Quote: forumow

Thus, all self-propelled artillery equipment can, if necessary, be included in the air defense fire crew of the SV grouping, which will significantly increase the complexity of the air attack task for the enemy.

Fabulous. One demonstrative raid - and the positions of tanks and self-propelled guns were opened.

[forumow]

Quote: Alexey RA

If everything were so simple, then BMPs based on the Tunguska or Shilka would have appeared long ago.

So we will do the opposite - "Tunguska and Shilki" based on BMPs. BMPT / ZSU based on the T-15 or Kurganets, for example.

Quote: Alexey RA

Fabulous. One demonstrative raid - and the positions of tanks and self-propelled guns were opened.

Is it not fate to change positions ?! Do air defense systems deal with a similar problem in some other way? Also, take note! Taking target designation from external means, the bulk of the SV equipment involved will not impersonate radar radiation.

The principle outlined above will allow all modern ground combat equipment to take an active part in the defense against an air attack, and not be just a passive victim and object of protection for relatively small air defense systems.

[MolGro]

In the picture "Central Research Institute" Burevestnik "ZAK-57


In the video, the American 57 mm cannon is quite effective)

[Bersaglieri]

They don't replace, they add. So it will be more correct.

[Dinosaur1957]

And what, "Shell", which is -C1? Have all the ground forces provided them? Or is our valiant military-industrial complex unable to cope with foreign orders? Or, again, "they didn’t have time to build one, as right there, right away ... they didn’t have time to build both the second and third" © Or maybe he ("Shell") is not at all as good as they told us from the blue screens . The last time, as I remember now, was May 9th. As usual, unparalleled. Who knows what's going on with the Shell, and how this new 57mm projector will look like from a purely economic point of view. In our conditions...

[psiho117]

Quote: Dinosaur1957

And what about the "Pantsir" ... Or, again, "they didn’t have time to build one, as right there, they immediately didn’t have time to build both the second and third"

Well, actually, this is a normal practice - after adopting a model for service, think about upgrading or replacing it with a new generation. And the "Shell" is far from being a young man, and there are serious complaints about the effectiveness of art. fire.
But that's not the trick: the announced ZSU is a possible replacement not for the Shell, but for the Tunguska, and that one has indeed been for many years.
From a combat point of view - in the presence of adjustable projectiles, and a detonation distance - this is a definite plus, how it is there from an economic point of view - who knows, you need to ask our "effective managers" this.

[major124]

57-mm good caliber .... Good range, excellent high-explosive action ...

[artwin]

and if a 57mm and even a cumulative projectile, then the "derivation" will willingly cope with tanks.

[psiho117]

Quote from artwin

and if a 57mm and even a cumulative projectile, then the "derivation" will willingly cope with tanks.

Nonsense. Ammunition with a diameter of 130-150mm often cannot cope with tanks, what can we say about a thin 57mm

[Aandrewsir]

He served in 1986-1988 in the KZakVO in the military air defense at the Krug air defense system. I remember that they were preparing for live firing at the training center in Vaziani, and there I had a chance to see "Shilki" in action. Then their work impressed with its rate of fire. At the site of the shooting there were "waist-deep" shell casings. But "Tunguska" in many respects "surpassed" "Shilka". I hope that the new complex will "leave behind" the Tunguska. I am glad that due attention is being paid to military air defense! Good luck to the "defenders" and "air defense"!

[tupolev-95]

In my opinion, the idea is with 57 mm. the gun is quite nothing to itself, of course, if there is ammunition with a programmable detonation in the ammunition load. Have complementary vehicles in anti-aircraft units - for example, with a cannon

[tupolev-95]

and with missile weapons (on a single chassis)

[Yak28]

Old ZSU-57

[Gunther]

Quote: kote119

they showed a plot about the shell on TV: they fired cannons at a light drone, and they couldn’t shoot it down, I had to shoot with a rocket, to be honest, it surprised me

Strange, I also watched (Star TV channel), rockets were not fired, the drone fell off by itself - its electronics died from the radar pickup.