End of an interview with an army pilot aviationhaving experience flying Mi-8, Mi-24, Mi-35M and Mi-28N helicopters.
- What is the flight of pilots?
- Strike try to ensure the maximum possible, at least 50 hours to each. On average, each one leaves, if on business trips to fly, 100 hours and more.
- What is the rate of plaque?
- The standard is double now: 40 hours to pay “for special conditions”, and 50 hours to “year for two” to go.
- Readers asked a lot about the tactics of action, equipment, training. The question of the latter: “Are there new helicopter simulators?”
- Yes, for all new types of helicopters, our airbase received simulators.
- Do experienced pilots need to use them?
- Simulators, of course, are needed. Whenever flight preparations are made, training is held in the cockpits of helicopters. Thoroughly practiced actions in special cases. Simulators help tamper mechanics: what and how to turn on / switch on / off in certain cases. This saves a lot of time, since it is not necessary, sitting in the cockpit of the helicopter, to imagine this or that situation in your head and click the toggle switches, ostensibly driving the machine. The simulator allows you to simulate a real flight and understand what will happen as a result of one or another of your actions.
- Are there any crews that mimic the tactics of using the helicopters of our “foreign partners” in training?
- There is something similar. For example, a training flight to "air combat": my helicopter must intercept the "violator" helicopter.
- How often do exercises of launching guided missiles during training?
- There is no "iron" graphics. In the year several times. At least once a year, charges are made for the launch of guided missiles for all pilots who shoot for the first time who have any breaks.
- How many rockets are allocated to one person in firing?
- Differently. In the spring of four shot here. For training this was enough for me.
- Do you do skydiving?
- Regularly. At least two jumps per year. But if there is a diagnosis of "osteochondrosis", then it is released from the jumps.
- Overalls and gloves for pilots made of non-combustible materials?
- This is always the main requirement for all overalls. Blue overalls, in which we walk, they initially come with anti-flammable and anti-impregnated impregnation. And they do not burn, and even if the jumpsuit is on fire, there will be no open fire, it will fester.
- tried to set fire themselves for the sake of interest?
- It is hard to set fire, smolders and everything. No open flame. But they need care. Somehow one lady was surprised when she was told that we were simply washing these kombezy in an ordinary typewriter. She was very surprised, they say, they need to be given to a special dry-cleaner, if he himself washed it, this impregnation will disappear. In theory, when they designed this suit, they assumed that each part would have its own special laundry, where the overalls would wash us, iron and soak again. In fact this is not, they themselves washed, stroked, put on.
- Maybe you should buy some impregnation? Take something like that?
- I do not saturate anything.
- More about the gloves asked.
- Yes, give out chevretovye gloves. There are warm gloves, winter. Skin good. And the quality is better than the summer version. I fly in gloves with chopped off fingers, like motorbikes, made of thin leather. I tried to fly with gloves, which give out, but did not go. I love my fingers to feel what I touch.
- Question on the boots: is it convenient to fly in regular flight?
- If you carry them - yes. Comfortable shoes, nice, soft.
- Do you use body armor on combat missions?
- In “8-ke,” they used to use body armor when they had a glass “balcony” in front of them: they put the body armor forward, closed the glass, hung it on the blisters. Now there are armored plates on new cars. In a bulletproof vest is very difficult to fly. The pilot had to 5, 6, 7 hours a day to fly, and even more, and always be at the same time in a bulletproof vest. Not every physically prepared person will survive. If you suddenly have to leave the car, the body armor is overweight and a possible cause of the hook. Now fly with NAZ-IR. The vest and in it are a lot of pockets, where are bandages, a compass, mirrors, shops for AK and a pistol, etc.
- On the "28-m", "35-m" vest is not needed?
- On the "28-m" will sit cramped in a bulletproof vest, because the cabin is smaller than the "35-th." On the "28-m" I do not see the point, the cabin will protect. On the "35-m" is also too heavy. I saw, our brothers in mind, “behind the ribbon,” had almost invented knightly armor for the pilot. Well, let them try to fly in them. They ohreneyut.
- Are you talking about Ukrainian volunteers?
- Yes Yes. I laughed to tears. You try to get into it in a helicopter and fly.
Equipment donated by volunteers to Ukrainian helicopter pilots
- That is, these body armor, in which they dress pilots, with such a giant collar - is it from a small mind?
- I recall the experience. Why did the pilots of WWI have white silk scarves? Everyone thought that it was a trick, a distinctive feature and almost glamor. In fact, so that the neck does not rub against the collar. The pilot must turn his head at 360 degrees constantly. The more you twist your head, the more you rub your neck. And in these bookings - this is complete nonsense. Such a pilot for a long time is not enough. There is not only rub your neck.
- Returning to NAZ-IR. Do you just use regular vests?
- Established. Our requirements are very strict and it is not allowed to fly with other equipment. Right now. Previously, they flew in what was more convenient. NAZ-IR is normal, adapted to everything. Pockets missing. From Stechkin I got 5 stores. One in the gun, 4 shop shoved, in bulk you can cram a bunch of cartridges. Automatic shops can be shoved. In Syria, the pilots in these fly, too.
By the way, on “24-ke” in Chechnya, they were given out and now in Syria they are given these “uglyadyshs” - AKS-74U. Well, at least not a gun, that's good.
- If you fly to combat, then it’s better to take more cartridges with you?
- It is desirable, yes. Because it takes some time to win, until after you the search and rescue squad arrives. Of course, now they fly with a gun. They, anyway, also have a gun with them, a lot of ammo. My father still told me: there are free pockets, shove cartridges, you never know. And the "ublyudysh" constantly with a double store.
- From the food something extra take?
- In combat conditions, rations are issued, the same ones that everyone eats - IRP. Even under the parachute we have a wearable emergency reserve. So at a minimum: a machete, a mirror, sugar, to hold on, to receive energy from somewhere.
- What are the points for flying at night you use?
- I personally have GEO-ONV-1. Now the new ones have gone: GEO-ONV, modified, they have a better matrix, the resolution is higher, there are less noise in the end. There is no longer this grain. Our sworn partners have better points in this regard. The same French, American.
- Ground practice with the purchase of their equipment among the pilots is not common?
- Not. First, it is all very expensive. Secondly, they will not be adapted to the power system - they also feed from the helicopter network. In an emergency case, 4 rechargeable batteries are inserted into the counterweight to the glasses. Normal fingertips. This is in case the network is cut off by a helicopter, so that there is food, so that they are enough for some time to fly. If they sit down too, you throw away your glasses and you fly as during a simple night visual flight. Naturally, there is a limit on heights, when in glasses and without flying. With glasses you can fly at extremely low altitude - 50 meters. At night with visual flights without glasses - not lower than 200 meters.
- Does the narrow sector of the view interfere with the use of night vision glasses?
- No, it does not interfere. You get used to. There is not looking at everything with glasses. With glasses you look only at the cabin, and you already look into the devices with your eyes - you take your eyes and see the devices. Therefore, green light is needed. On the "24-x" is a red light - this is the most important difference 24-ki from the rest. On 35-x, 28-x, on the Mi-8AMTSH new - they have a green highlight so that there is no color impact on the eyes. Change backlight on 24-ke and the helicopter [will be] ready to fly at night in the GCC.
But you can’t fly with glasses for a long time: your eyes get tired.
- What is the time limit for flying in them?
- No more than 3 hours you can fly.
- Will it be more comfortable if the sector of the review of night glasses is increased due to the use of additional monoculars - 4 instead of 2?
- The main thing is that they do not distort the picture of perception. Of course, I think it would be better if the review sector is larger: more pleasant, and less head movements.
- Do you often have to turn your head in glasses?
- Do not say so often. If you fly at night, they are not needed. This is only in a combat situation or, when flights are made in the mountains, you have to use it. Of course, the larger the review sector, the more the pilot sees, the better.
- What wishes in terms of equipment for night flights?
- Radar would not hurt to take the same and deliver. Because, seeing how it works on 52, how it shows the entire underlying surface, all the obstacles ... I would also like to have the same radar on 28. She is very good. Simplify night flights, flying at extremely low altitude.
- How is she with the visibility of power lines?
- She sees the support. We even have visual flights, you see the support and according to the rules of all, security measures, you pass only above it. There are wires on it, there are no wires, you can not see them. The main thing, if you saw that the pillar is sticking out, it is better to fly over the pillar.
- In order of recklessness, no one under the wires tried to fly?
- No, I do not know such fools. Collisions with wires usually end sadly.
- How are modern helicopters protected from fire from the ground?
- Depending on the caliber, depending on where it falls. All helicopters that are in “24-ke”, that in “8-ke”, are duplicating all vital systems. On the "28-m" why the engines are spaced apart? Not like 35, but 24, where they stand at the top. They cover up the most important nodes by the principle of shielding with less important elements of more important ones. For example, on the Mi-24, the main gearbox alone, if you hit it, it will collapse, it will all stick up, and you will fall down with a pebble. At 28, the engines are spaced apart, and even if one engine is damaged, it will take a hit on itself, and the gearbox will not suffer. And all the important systems are brought exactly for the engine, hidden so that the engine carried the function of the armored screen.
According to the vitality. On the "28-m" glass does not take even 23-mm projectile, even 30-mm does not take, booking a cabin is good. On the "24-ke", "35-m" armor plates, well, 7.62-mm stand. 12.7-mm, they will not stand. Again, looking where it falls. The bullet is a fool. There have been cases, you think, well, how could she just get into that system. Sometimes one bullet is enough. And there have been cases when people brought from 100 from one departure and nothing important was touched. Everything was repaired on the ground, the holes quickly riveted and flew on.
- The pilot feels that they hit the helicopter?
- When it is usually heard, if it is closer to the cab, and if it is further, then you will only find it on the ground. Well, if the hits caused damage to any helicopter systems, you can’t confuse them here.
- Are there exercises like “flying in conditions of fire from the ground”?
- Yes. Take, for example, Aviadarts, where the exercise was Overcoming the Air Defense Zone with the Pantsirami.
- What tactics does the unit use when working in a saturated air defense environment?
- If the enemy has a strong air defense system, then only helicopters will never be sent. Sense to fly like animals for slaughter? Before our use, they must suppress the air defenses, and only then begins our work, the immediate support of the leading edge.
- How to avoid fire from the ground: small weapons, anti-aircraft artillery? MANPADS rockets?
- MANPADS - a few ways. For example, you can fly against the backdrop of a warm, lighted mountain, so that there is no strong contrast, from the side of the sun to set. It is necessary to create a “launcher” conditions so that he could not aim at you. These are flights at low altitudes and preferably behind artificial or natural obstacles. That there was a constant breakdown of the capture of the head of the guidance, so that he would pin all the batteries and throw out his pipe.
For small arms the same techniques. Low altitude, the use of terrain, artificial and natural obstacles. Somewhere flights are not straightforward, but with a change in course — zigzags, with gliding, in every way. Just to reduce the opportunity to get the shooter. Even if he took aim at you, took a lead point, it is enough to create a glide helicopter, but not to show that you are changing the course of flight. And, if there is a slip, his pivot point will be fucked up, he will not fall. Need to move. Someone himself produces some maneuvers.
- Suppose the pilot saw an arrow with MANPADS at the ready. What to do in this case?
- It is advisable, of course, to try to remove it. Or transfer to the control point the coordinates where you spotted it so that it would be removed from the ground. Or you can ask permission, and quickly changing the flight path, go on the other hand, try to fix it. But not the fact that, having heard the helicopter, it will stand in one place and wait.
- That is, the tactics are chosen according to the situation?
- Yes. According to the stories of colleagues, if you have already seen the launch, you have spotted the launch site along the train, then you immediately worked there to destroy the possible second “trigger”. Even if you do not get on him, then at least scare him to do legs. Again, you can try to eliminate, but not the fact that he will be in the same place. He can change position and wait for you in a new position. And he will see you faster than you.
- If it is a mobile anti-aircraft installation. You have found her, but there is no possibility to immediately attack, and she has already opened fire on the helicopter. What to do in this case?
- It is necessary to leave. Fall to the utmost height and walk away. If it moves, it goes, you can shoot at it. But, if she had already uncovered the trunks, then it would be rash to thrust upon her. You can simply transfer the coordinates and someone will hit her from the ground, or she will fly to her already from the plane. Or, if you have guided weapons on the pendants, just take a safe distance and remove them.
- And if you are on the "28-m", "35-m", where is the gun in a mobile unit?
- If the operator has time to react, deploy and direct the gun, you can try to give a queue. Depending on what distance and under what angle you will approach it.
According to the situation must act. Why do couples always fly? "Czechs", if they worked with MANPADS, always tried to beat on the slave. The presenter was never touched, and if touched, then it was amateurs. Because if they start to work on the leader, then the slave will see, and he will definitely punish, eliminate the threat. Therefore, always tried to eliminate the slave. Because the eyes behind are slave. When the slave is knocked down, the master may simply not be able to see, from a limited view, where the start was made. He will not be able to respond quickly. So it is with the "Zeus". If she begins to hammer on the leader, the leader can go to the side and transfer the coordinates to the slave. The slave is already quietly fit, and while the anti-aircraft gunner deploys the barrels on him, the slave will be able to work on it. Again, there must be a good interval to allow the slave to react.
Many tactical techniques themselves come up with. Depending on the area. We even register in tactics, there are some patterns, some strikes, squadrons, links. But then dopiska: do not be guided and consider it a dogma, that this is the way to act. You need to use your head and helicopter capabilities. The main thing is to be effective. You can even come up with something ... For example, NAR is allowed to start up from a cabrening. There is a dive when the helicopter goes down, and there is a pitching when it goes up. Why, knowing the location of the target, to enter the affected area, when it is possible to send missiles up from a longer range and ballistics will already do their job? The angle you create is positive, the nose is raised, the NAR is bummed. Yes, the area of dispersion will be more. But, if you correctly took into account the angle, then you will bring panic into the enemy’s lines approximately where you need to go. You can go further away, with the NNX to cut kilometers from 6, they will go up, then they will descend along a gentle trajectory.
- Readers are interested: “In some videos you can see how the helicopters pass by a pair. In some, they spin a roundabout with turnarounds. In what cases what techniques are used? ”
- Flying to the goal is always a pair. If it is necessary not to “unload” at the first call, the intervals will increase to get into the “carousel”, to make several visits. What is the "carousel"? In order to lead could observe the slave. The viewing sector increases to 360 degrees, the pilots see the whole situation on the battlefield and can tell each other what happens behind the tail. Plus, when the first one has shot out and moves away from the target, the second one shoots and thus additionally covers the departure of the first one.
If the situation requires it, the couple can act alone: one jumped out - shot out, the second one jumped out - shot out. Depending on the purpose, this may be, as already said, a complete “unloading” for the first call or more precise work.
- Armored vehicles with automatic guns such as BMP, BTR represents a serious danger to the helicopter?
- Yes. This is quite a serious weapon.
- What is the tactic of action against them?
- The most important thing is to have a good intelligence: a good advanced aviation gunner and timely fresh data. My opinion: 70-80% attack success depends on intelligence. Intelligence provides an understanding of how to fly, where to fly, that is, determine the desired tactical technique. For example, an infantry fighting vehicle can hit the same ATGM by firing it from a distance of 5 km and not entering the affected area of the cannon of this machine. The main thing is to understand where she is, to find her with the help of a surveillance device, to become attached to a target and attack. If this is a stationary target, then you can immediately begin to work on guided missiles. If you found a convoy of armored vehicles on the march, then there you can and NAR to work, make stop, and then go the distance and ATGM to work. It all depends on the specific situation. If there is a serious battle on the ground and the calculations with the arrows are diverted to combat with the ground forces, you can approach the NAR and work out, and it’s good to walk with a cannon.
- When attacking the enemy's manpower is clearly visible? Suppose if she takes refuge in buildings and fires on a helicopter?
- The outbreaks of automata can be seen, smoke. Everything depends on the height and distance. In a wooded area, one has to shoot either squarely or by adjusting an aircraft manufacturer. You do the first sighting, and then he suggests: "To the left ... To the right ...". We call it “the Lesopoval group” works: you unload everything into the forest, and then, according to intelligence data, the results are reported to you.
- their own gunners or from ground carriers?
- And they sent their own ones, but more often, of course, land carriers. There are courses of aviation gunners, where they are trained. If I am not mistaken, then in the Airborne Forces all officers are trained in interaction with aviation. For example, a few years ago, the cadets of the 5 course of the RVDKU during a force march in a mountainous area had such training: I was flying, and they, in turn, guide me to the goal.
The exact work of the aircraft owner is very important. Arriving in the area of action, and there, for example, a big mountain. The gunner must give reference points to which you can attach. He will indicate the pillar, yes? And there are several in the area. You are attached to one, and the gunner says something else. This is already a mistake. On the ground, the battle goes on at distances 300-500 meters, or even less. For us, this is a very small distance, given the spread of the NAR. Therefore, we strive to work more carefully, to specify the coordinates of the gunners, so as not to put on their own.
- What are the actions when meeting in the air with enemy aircraft?
- We constantly search for and catch up with a helicopter, reach target range, attack from various angles, etc. If you met with a helicopter and you are “full,” with ammunition, you can join the battle, try to twist and knock it down with a pair. Alone, you can join the air battle. Try to shoot down a gun, NAR. Guided missiles ("air-to-air") yet. On the Mi-28H should be "Needle", but it is not set. If empty, BC is not, then leave, take cover whenever possible.
- If the plane?
- If it is a fighter, then simpler, you can go to the "limit", then he may not even see you and will not be able to bring him from the ground. Reduce the speed of the helicopter, because it will be difficult for him to put out speed, and he simply will not have time to take aim. If he has already gone on the attack, you have lately spotted him, then you must turn on him and thereby increase the speed of convergence. This can cause the enemy to leave the attack due to lack of time to aim. In an emergency, when you can not get rid of it, you can just sit down and run away from the helicopter, but I think this will not happen.
- Found an enemy drone in the air. What will you do?
- My assumptions: you can try to work the gun, NAR. Or just drive it underneath, so that the air from the screws knocked him down. Again, depending on the drone.
- Typical target for attack using NAR?
- Areal goal.
- What is the minimum distance for such an attack?
- Kilometer. There have been cases that shot and closer, but it is at your own risk. For example, old-timers said that in Afghanistan, when they quickly had to “shoot at themselves”, they would tilt the helicopter and beat the “bearded” people on 300-500 meters. But in terms of security measures, it should be no less than a thousand meters.
- Are there any advantages over the Mi-24 when using NAR on new types of helicopters?
- In this case, the new helicopters have only one advantage: sighting stations that can detect the target, become attached to it and visually see it on the screen. In terms of shooting: the rockets didn’t fly more precisely, the blocks were the same, the missiles were the same. If you shoot in automatic mode, it all depends on the health and proper operation of the automation, if in manual mode, then on the skills of the pilot in shooting.
- If the enemy is in the building, but there are no guided missiles for one reason or another: is the option of an attack using NAR in this case considered?
- It is possible to scare, but there will not be any special results, if only some crazy one does not fly into the window.
- What is the current mission for the fulfillment of tasks in the course of CTO (counterterrorism operations) in the North Caucasus?
- Now in the KTO, they usually take 2 of the NAR unit, and guided weapons only if it is known that the nature of the target requires their use. It’s not even the case that UR is an expensive weapon, which will be a pity if you miss, but that the guided missiles have limited resources in terms of takeoffs / landings and in-flight. The missile can not fly more than 30 hours, then it must be returned to the factory for maintenance.
- The last couple of questions remain: about money and a vision of promising technology. What is the size of the money allowance?
- The young have 50 thousand, but only if he began to fly and fulfilled the rate of the raid in order to get a surcharge for the OCU (special conditions of service - note). And then everything depends on the length of service, rank, position, class, distance, etc. On the website of the Ministry of Defense there is a calculator for calculating the money allowance, who are interested, they can figure out how much they are doing.
- How do you see the attack helicopter of the future?
- Submissions must be based on the conditions of hostilities. If we take the same local conflicts, the struggle with individual groups that move and hide in the forest, then all the same it is more necessary for the sight and sight stations to work well. The same radar, the same imagers. They are already working now, but I think that we need to put more emphasis on this. Use laser target illumination more often. This makes it much easier to target, the same job as an aircraft gunner. In order not to shout into your phone: “Hey, right here to this bush! No, a little to the left! The faster you get information on the battlefield, the faster you can help.
- Thank you very much for the interesting interview!