Nuclear submarines - America's new aircraft carriers? ("The National Interest", USA)

60
Nuclear submarines - America's new aircraft carriers? ("The National Interest", USA)


“Nuclear submarines with cruise missiles can be a key element in maintaining America’s naval superiority in the future.”


A new class of nuclear-powered submarines with cruise missiles may become a key element in maintaining America’s naval superiority in the future, in conditions where everything new appears in the world. weaponchallenging the dominance of the US Navy aircraft carriers.

In fact, some analysts believe that submarines with cruise missiles should someday replace aircraft carriers and become the basis of the naval battle power.

With the advent and spread of precision guided weapons such as anti-ship cruise missiles, anti-ship ballistic missiles and modern air defense systems, especially Chinese, pose an increasing threat to American aircraft carriers and their deck aviation as part of the concept of blocking access / blocking the zone (A2 / AD).

Instead of approaching the coast at the initial stage of a major war, naval naval airfields, together with escort ships worth billions of dollars, may be forced to keep thousands of nautical miles from the coast in order to remain inaccessible to attack the enemy. The situation is aggravated even more by the fact that today's deck aviation has an insufficient range, and it does not have the ability to penetrate the enemy’s air defense, which is becoming more and more perfect. Even the delayed adoption of a single Lockheed Martin F-2019C strike fighter in approximately 35 will not solve this problem.

New long-range unmanned aerial vehicles with stealth characteristics can, over time, provide the aircraft carrier with the necessary reach and strike power. But there are people who claim that submarines are a much more effective weapon against such threats. Although potential adversaries such as China are capable of challenging the US in the air, at sea, on land and in space, under the water, the US Navy can act almost with impunity.

"The advantages of our underwater fleet “We allow us to operate within A2 / AD,” said retired first-rank captain Jerry Hendrix, a naval analyst at the Center for a New American Security Research Center. “This is a very powerful weapon that can act with impunity within the space of access / blocking the zone.”

Hendrix claims that ships such as the first four Ohio-type atomic submarines that were modified and now, instead of 24 Trident II D5 ballistic missiles, carry Tomahawk cruise missiles in conventional gear, are one of the most powerful means against the A154 threat / AD. “Countries seeking to create such barriers to access / block the zone take note of these submarines,” says Hendrix.

He argues that during Operation Odyssey. Dawn "against the regime of the now overthrown Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi in 2011, these submarines showed that they are a powerful weapon. The Florida submarine (SSGN-728) almost single-handedly destroyed the Libyan air defense system, launching approximately 90 Tomahawk cruise missiles.

These submarine missile carriers have such capabilities that Hendrix proposes to stop the construction of new aircraft carriers with a nuclear power plant such as Ford after two such ships have been built, which are currently on the stocks. Navy for the price of one such aircraft carrier can buy a lot of submarines with cruise missiles - after all, one ship without deck aircraft costs almost 13 billion dollars.

Unlike an aircraft carrier, an underwater bomber can approach the enemy’s coast, and then launch its missiles, hitting targets in areas remote from the sea, since its weapons have a range of more than 1 200 nautical miles and can destroy almost everything from air defense and command weapons points, and ending with the objects of enemy infrastructure. “The point is that the three submarine missile carriers have the strike power of the 462 Tomahawk missiles, and there may be new generations of the Tomahawks that will become even more advanced,” says Hendrix.

According to him, now there is an optimal opportunity to increase the fleet of submarines with cruise missiles, since the two remaining Ohio-class SSBNs can be reequipped by equipping with cruise missiles. Now they are undergoing intermediate repair and refueling with nuclear fuel, in connection with which the Navy has a great opportunity to turn these nuclear submarines into ordinary attack submarines.

According to Hendrix, in the future, the naval forces under the Ohio replacement program should buy two submarines at a time to reduce the astronomical cost of the boats. One submarine can be equipped with nuclear ballistic missiles, and the second to build with cruise missiles. Ultimately, Hendrix suggests building eight submarines with cruise missiles and 12 “boomers” as part of the replacement program. “I would build them together to ensure high efficiency, and maybe lower prices,” he says. “With eight submarines with cruise missiles, we will get more 1 100 precision strike weapons.”

However, Hendrix notes that the benefits of submarines with cruise missiles is not only in their missiles. If necessary, they will be able to carry on board various unmanned aerial vehicles and autonomous uninhabited underwater vehicles. Further, pre-prepared satellites can be loaded into these boats in order to launch them into low near-earth orbit in order to replenish the US space group if a part of its forces and assets will be destroyed during the full-scale conflict of the great powers.

The US Navy is planning to build new Virginia-type attack submarines, which will have four additional launch shafts for cruise missiles. Hendrix supports the idea of ​​building such boats, but only for the reason that it is too late to stop this program. A modified Virginia Block V strike submarine will be a useful addition to the version of submarine missile carriers that can be built as part of the Ohio replacement program. But with smaller launchers, such a boat is not suitable for new missiles with longer range and combat load, which can be installed on larger submarines.

Former US Navy submarine officer Bryan Clark (Bryan Clark), who works as an analyst at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments (Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments), agrees with Hendrix that submarines may be the best option during modern warfare. “I agree, against the Chinese A2 / AD complex, underwater systems, reconnaissance-impact UAVs and long-range attack and survivor UAVs during the war are the best means of striking and fighting enemy surface ships,” he says.

However, Clark notes that the submarines have their drawbacks. “In general, the deficiencies of submarines include limited control of the situation, low speed, and the lack of means of self-defense. Therefore, in the case of detection or attack, they will try to evade and avoid confrontation, - says Clark. - Our attack submarines in this regard are very vulnerable, and in addition, it is an expensive technique that requires large investments. Therefore, our commanders will give preference to evading hostilities in order to strike later. ”

In addition, although Chinese anti-submarine warfare weapons do not produce any special impression, the PLA Navy is still able to conduct stubborn military operations near its shores. "The PLA Navy has quite modest capabilities to conduct anti-submarine defense, but I would not dismiss the ability of the Chinese armed forces to conduct an effective anti-submarine campaign in their coastal waters," Clark says. “One of the advantages that anti-submarine defense forces possess is that they just have to prevent submarines from taking up their positions in order to effectively accomplish the tasks assigned. Destroy the enemy's submarines is not necessary. The PLA can cope with this task using detection devices installed on the seabed, active sonar stations and rockets, whose torpedoes and depth charges are their warhead. ”

This means that without help even a submarine will be difficult to act near the Chinese territorial waters. “If the PLA Navy can obstruct and interfere with our boat’s operations within 200-300 nautical miles from its coast, we will not be able to effectively fight enemy surface ships and strike at important targets,” Clark says. - And this means that we need other forces and means to operate under the water near the Chinese coast. And in this case, we will need unmanned submarines - large, with a long duration, as well as small ones launched from submarines. In addition, we will need impact underwater tools and sensor systems. ”

But although submarines are extremely effective in the course of modern warfare, their stealthiness and the duration of autonomous navigation may force the enemy to escalate the conflict. "The increase in underwater combat power in wartime increases the effectiveness of the armed forces as a whole, but there may be unforeseen consequences that increase the likelihood of a war, because China, with its adventurism and propensity to force others into retaliation, will be seriously challenged," said a former naval officer. Bryan McGrath, director of the Navy consulting firm FerryBridge Group. “Rapid progress in this direction seems inappropriate.”

According to McGrath, submarines are unable to demonstrate strength, because friendly countries, like the enemy, simply do not see a noticeable US naval presence. “An important part of our strategy is to demonstrate loyalty to allies and friends, assuring them of our presence and deterring the enemy through visible combat power,” said McGrath. “And submarines simply cannot do this convincingly.”

In order to contain Chinese assertiveness and prevent Chinese aggression, the US needs "a daily and visible presence, supported by a demonstration of combat power," Clark says. For this we need lower class forces, such as coastal defense ships and amphibious assault carriers. “In peacetime, demonstration and the“ presence ”of such lower class ships are advisable ... to show China and our allies with partners that we are in place and ready to act,” Clark notes. - If a conflict begins, our forces will be in its very center. This can be called a provocative moment, but no matter what names we use, these forces demonstrate American determination, and they will force the United States to react in the event of an attack on them, even if indirectly. ”

Hendrix acknowledges the concern of the American allies, who claim that the submarines simply do not create the sensation of a noticeable American presence. “I was directly told by representatives of foreign countries that submarines do not create the impression of a visible American presence,” he says. Hendrix agrees that the US Navy needs an optimal combination of different types of ships. This means that the fleet must purchase more frigates and simple destroyers. “We need a visible presence,” he says.

According to Hendrix, some may argue with this, noting that a small American ship does not seem like a formidable and effective restraining force. But if a potential adversary begins to carry out harassing actions against such a ship, submarines always have the opportunity to demonstrate that they are hiding in the depths of the sea waters. Moreover, if a smart adversary guesses that something terrible and dangerous is hiding under the waves, a submarine with cruise missiles can cause him to sweat in speculations, since he will not know exactly where she is, and this will create an additional element of deterrence. “People are made to worry about what they don’t know,” Hendrix notes.
60 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +9
    April 11 2015 07: 31
    A lot of letters about anything ...
    1. +12
      April 11 2015 08: 28
      Moreover, if a savvy adversary realizes that something terrible and dangerous is hiding under the waves

      And they did not try on such a threat? And not "well, stupid-ee" but just narrow-minded.
      What is the length of the coast of America and how many cities on the coast?
      1. +3
        April 11 2015 09: 45
        how many cities on the coast
        Major cities and industrial centers are all on the coast.
        1. +4
          April 11 2015 11: 00
          Because arrogant Saxons are not a continental civilization, even having such a decent piece of land as the United States, they climb the coast. This is in our hands, our centers deep in the territory, we are not afraid of neither aircraft carriers nor submarines from the Kyrgyz Republic. And their centers, if we do not eliminate the artificial tsunami, this will be done by the landslide of La Palma, meteorite or the movement of sea plates. So the legendary Atlantis perished, so the Minoans perished, so the Anglo-Saxons will also be covered.
        2. +2
          April 11 2015 13: 22
          If you believe the media, even 30%, then China has already built a second UNDERGROUND CHINA, for housing and production in case of FORCE MAJEURE!
          1. +8
            April 11 2015 13: 38
            Is everything ready for creating morlocks? Earthquakes destroy underground communications best of all (the last earthquake destroyed their underground nuclear center), more (from the experience of mining), all the voids tend to fill water, plus mine gas, in case of violation (or intentional damage) of the ventilation system, which one line communicates with the surface. The maintenance of underground facilities requires great expenses on the surface. Homo Sapiens cannot live underground and under water, just go down for a while. In natural caves animals do not live that will give man a head start in survival.
    2. 0
      April 11 2015 10: 18
      I just read about EW about our means. I feel all these tomahawks just will not fly.
    3. ksendzov1971
      0
      April 11 2015 11: 25
      Yes! It seems that we are completely behind! HAHA! Vova has eyes and ears everywhere!
      1. +1
        April 11 2015 17: 58
        And on the way are boats of the "Lada" type with vneu, so they will solve many problems with the US navy.
    4. +7
      April 11 2015 12: 12
      Quote: rafaelich
      A lot of letters about anything ...

      Completely with you not agree, even though Hendrix is ​​our probable enemy, but he thinks very correctly, of course, his idea will hardly be considered at the highest level, since the United States will simply never give up aircraft carriers even by cutting their number. This is a demonstration of power, tradition, cutting, and a large handful of military men who consider aircraft carriers "invincible".
      Our "overseas friend" wants to entrust all strike capabilities to the submarine fleet, since it will not be possible to launch axes from surface ships with impunity against Russia and China, and in general he is right.
      1. +3
        April 11 2015 18: 40
        The secret is clear: battleships should be the basis of the power of the Navy. They are not afraid to go close to the shore, their shells are extremely difficult to shoot down, if at all feasible, and they look fierce. So all the necessary attributes are in place.
  2. 0
    April 11 2015 07: 45
    We already knew that amerikosy half d urki ...
  3. +1
    April 11 2015 07: 55
    Whatever the Americans do, the main task for Russia now is to strengthen and modernize the Navy and the army.
  4. +6
    April 11 2015 07: 58
    Perhaps, two phrases are decisive here:
    unforeseen consequences may arise here that increase the likelihood of a war starting because China with its adventurism and tendency to force others to retaliate a serious challenge will be thrown
    and second:
    To restrain Chinese aggression and prevent Chinese aggression, The US needs an “everyday and visible presence supported by a display of military power," Clark says.

    In general, everything is, as always: "All around are aggressors, because OmErika must constantly shake her" muscles "everywhere in order to prevent an attack on herself, beloved!"
    Maybe it’s easier to calm down and start talking normally? More likely to survive. Especially when the dollar bubble bursts ..
  5. +5
    April 11 2015 08: 09
    if the Americans begin to build nuclear submarines with a large arsenal of Tomahawks, then we need to lean on the construction of MAPL and submarine hunters submarines.
    And now it is necessary to start building the Leader destroyers, which, as well as submarines, will be capable of destroying enemy submarines. We have a hard time with destroyers, and ships of this class are the backbone of any fleet. hi
    1. gjv
      0
      April 11 2015 18: 09
      As the newspaper "Guard of the Baltic" reports, the submarine B-227 "Vyborg" [project 877] relocated from Kronstadt to Baltiysk and began to solve the tasks of combat training.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  6. +2
    April 11 2015 08: 31
    But we are ready to cut our nuclear submarines "Akula", like the modernization is expensive, then we start comparing the "Sharks" with the "Borei" supposedly cheaper, this is a boat in / and 48 thousand tons and 24 thousand tons.
    Old Russian proverb.
    Miser pays twice.
    1. +3
      April 11 2015 09: 33
      Oh my God ... When does it end then ??

      Here the point is not that it is cheaper, but that Borey is much more perfect than the Shark, there is nothing to say about Borey-A.
      1. +2
        April 12 2015 11: 18
        Quote: Anton Gavrilov
        Here the point is not that it is cheaper, but that Borey is much more perfect than the Shark, there is nothing to say about Borey-A.

        I absolutely agree with you - a shark with its size and noisiness can act only in the Arctic Ocean, it does not make sense to remake it under the KR - it just won’t reach the enemy’s shores - the main secrecy in this task is that the Shark’s say this is not very ... possible the option is when a submarine with a large number of anti-ship missiles accompanies a group of surface ships and at the decisive moment attacks all missiles to create the desired salvo density, then of course stealth is completely unimportant - the boat goes under the protection of surface forces, well, first of all, Antei they’ll cut it for this task — each will carry, according to different data, from 72 to 96 anti-ship missiles on board, and secondly, surface forces, ocean forces, still need to be restored, they are now almost lost (it’s almost a stretch), so they’ll do everything right hi
        1. 0
          April 12 2015 19: 56
          Well, do I really see a sane person on this score!
        2. 0
          April 13 2015 15: 10
          Comrades, let’s decide what specific Sharks are we talking about (for NATO or for the Russian Federation classification)? About Pike or Typhoons?
          Typhoons really outlived their own, but Pike-B is not at all:
          In 2014, a deep modernization of the nuclear submarine at the Zvyozdochka shipyard began. The first modernized boats K-328 "Leopard", K-461 "Wolf", K-391 "Bratsk" and K-295 "Samara". Total planned to upgrade 6 boats
        3. 0
          April 14 2015 02: 34
          And why not take a set of measures to reduce noise, if all of a sudden? bully
      2. +1
        April 13 2015 19: 54
        Quote: Anton Gavrilov
        Oh my God ... When does it end then ??

        Calmly, everything is fine, spring is in the yard, when it all ends.
        Quote: Anton Gavrilov
        ut the point is not that it is cheaper, but that Borey is much more perfect than the Shark, there is nothing to say about Borey-A.

        What are the advantages of Borey over Shark under the Arctic ice?
        What are the advantages of "Borey" over "Shark" in terms of combat stability?
        It looks like "Borey" is the same BDRM to which the hump was cut off, since the rocket is shorter.
        Yes, let them build the "Borei" once they decided for strategic purposes, not the eternity of "Dolphins" and "Squids" to use, I propose to rebuild the "Sharks" for cruise missiles, so to speak, an underwater floating arsenal, such ships as "Shark", we are not soon we can build.
  7. avt
    +5
    April 11 2015 08: 48
    Interesting - this American Oleg still read, or is it not Americanos -Oleg wrote under a pseudonym!? laughing
    1. +1
      April 11 2015 09: 32
      Ahhah, straight to the point.)
  8. +4
    April 11 2015 09: 19
    The sentence warns:
    If a conflict starts, our forces will be at its very center. This can be called a provocative moment, but no matter what name we use, these forces demonstrate American resolve, and they will force the United States to react in the event of an attack on them, even if indirectly. ”

    Here it is - simple and simple reason found to the start of hostilities!
    Under indirect attack anything can be adjusted: close flight of an aircraft, tracking by a ship, detection of submarines in close proximity "our forces will be in the very center of it. This can be called a provoking moment,"
    but this does not bother us: we already have experience in organizing such provocations! TONKIN'S Gulf is itching in a sore brain with a red-hot nail! "- this is what Clarke probably thought about, but for obvious reasons did not say.
  9. +1
    April 11 2015 09: 20
    “An important part of our strategy is to demonstrate devotion to allies and friends, assuring them of our presence and deterring the enemy through visible combat power,” McGrath said. “But submarines simply cannot do it convincingly.”
    Good old "gunboat policy" in action. No need to invent a wilisiped.
  10. 0
    April 11 2015 09: 42
    In general, it is planned to equip the Virgin compartment with four VPM-Virginia Playable Modulle, they plan to equip boats from the 5 to the 7 block, total 20 pieces. (5 block of 10 steamers, the rest 2 by 5). as in the photo.
  11. -1
    April 11 2015 10: 18
    If we really launch a series of non-volatile installations, then all their plans for the boat account will be just a waste of money. Although the idea is certainly interesting ... If there is a good target designation system and missiles being retargeted during the flight, then the weapon turns out to be very effective.
    1. +3
      April 11 2015 11: 20
      If we build 40 Ash-M pieces, then it is possible that these plans will be utopian, and DEPLs, including those from VNEU 48 Virginia, 7 Astyutov and 6 Barracuda, will not stop.
      1. -3
        April 12 2015 04: 48
        48 Virginia, 7 Astyutes and 6 Barracudas, a massive, retaliatory nuclear strike will stop this whole pack!
  12. +8
    April 11 2015 10: 20
    Author Dave Majumdar has been covering military issues since 2004.

    Dave Majumdar has already bewildered everyone with his fabrications ... who is even interested in the opinion of some American blogger of Indian origin?
  13. +1
    April 11 2015 10: 27
    Article with subtext. The most important subtext is the phrase: "in the future." Those. We now have nothing, what we managed to modernize is, in general, not modernization, but the write-off of scrap metal that does not fly for some reason to the fact that at least somehow it can fly. Otherwise, why change nuclear missiles for tomahawks? Isn't it all that bad with them? Unhappy savages: they cry, they pray to God without sparing tears, the crocodile is not caught, the coconut does not fly.
  14. +2
    April 11 2015 11: 28
    In principle, if the United States puts their AUGs on the joke (and then puts them on needles), and stakes on nuclear submarines from the Kyrgyz Republic, Russia’s good for it. Now Russia doesn’t have its own AUGs, it’s troublesome and expensive. there is experience and there is power. Old APRKs can be useful (the number of ICBMs is specified in the agreements, and as new ones are accepted, the old ones are written off) for conversion to KR carriers. There is rich experience in building small and large anti-submarine ships. There will be approximate parity (depends on financing) hi
  15. +4
    April 11 2015 11: 29
    Muammar did not have travel air defense, but Assad has it; therefore, Libya as a state is no longer there and Syria will remain a barrier for a long time; it doesn’t matter where to start the axes; the main thing is to bring down more of them; the Chinese air defense systems are normal and can be improved in cost; any attack weapon is almost always more expensive than a defense weapon
  16. +6
    April 11 2015 14: 00
    Cruise missiles cannot replace aircraft carriers. KR only work
    on stationary objects, and fighter-bombers can conduct dynamic
    battle with tanks, troops, mobile enemy air defense. In addition, the submarine discharged KR remains
    useless and should sail to a distant base, and an aircraft carrier - a large warehouse of bombs, missiles.
    Aircraft can make many approaches to the enemy. A pair of aircraft carriers can set
    a continuous bombing carousel in front of the landing site of his troops.
    1. +1
      April 11 2015 14: 23
      all right. Only a note, an aircraft carrier, unlike a submarine, is effective only in a war against the Papuans with a weak fleet, coastal defense and air defense. Against a normally armed enemy, this is trough, just like its aircraft are plywood, the presence of which is simply not enough to gain air supremacy be carriers even a few
      1. +1
        April 11 2015 15: 52
        I agree with you in everything, Comrade Jr. Lieutenant!
      2. +1
        April 11 2015 19: 14
        Aircraft Carrier Aircraft - Hornet F-18 is the most common modern fighter-bomber,
        4 ++ generations similar to Dryers. If there are more of them in quantity, then dominance
        the air will be provided over any opponent. Carrier groups alike
        that work for the Papuans, that for an equal opponent. In the second case, aircraft losses will be
        much more, but this is usually planned ahead of time as "inevitable losses".
        The Japanese have fully experienced this in their own time.
        1. 0
          April 11 2015 19: 44
          I repeat, in the war with the Papuans, against whom the aircraft carriers are intended. Modern, and not from the Second World War. An equal adversary will simply drown an aircraft carrier, unless of course he chooses purely defensive tactics out of fear, this also happens. Against aircraft carriers of the second world missile they were not used for lack of
        2. 0
          April 12 2015 04: 55
          It seems you are not familiar with the US military doctrine, and the paragraph on military losses ..))!
    2. +1
      April 11 2015 21: 21
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Cruise missiles cannot replace aircraft carriers. KR only work
      on stationary objects, and fighter-bombers can conduct dynamic
      battle with tanks, troops, mobile enemy air defense.

      This is true only for the battle of the sea against the coast.
      Quote: voyaka uh
      A pair of aircraft carriers can set
      a continuous bombing carousel in front of the landing site of his troops.

      Is it such a way for air defense in preferential mode to fire your aircraft?
      1. +1
        April 12 2015 04: 56
        "Is this a way for air defense to shoot off your aircraft in a preferential mode?" It is clearly stated ..))) !!
      2. 0
        April 12 2015 11: 29
        Do not exaggerate the value of air defense. Air defense is the last
        line of defense. If airspace is not controlled
        fighter aircraft, then air defense - dead poultices.
        And the reliability of fighter aircraft cover is determined
        purely by the number of aircraft. The side with
        in the air there are more fighters of the same generation as the enemy.

        The stronger the enemy, the more they will push the AUG. Bye quantity
        combat aircraft in the air will not significantly exceed that of the enemy.
        In general, stamp modern planes, not low-use air defense wink .
        1. 0
          April 12 2015 12: 03
          Quote: voyaka uh
          The stronger the enemy, the more they will push the AUG.

          This is a classic fallacy. AUGs rule in the open sea, they completely lose to coastal aviation.
          From the wrong premise
          Quote: voyaka uh
          If airspace is not controlled
          fighter aircraft, then air defense - dead poultices.

          You make the wrong conclusion
          Quote: voyaka uh
          The side with
          in the air there are more fighters of the same generation as the enemy.


          The conflict in Ukraine showed that in our time, like a hundred years ago, the main means of defeating the enemy is artillery, all other branches of the army work for him, the God of war.
          1. -2
            April 12 2015 12: 20
            Military conflict in Ukraine goes without
            participation of aviation in general (for political reasons).
            From a military point of view, it’s just interesting how
            "combat operations of small units of ground forces
            in the absence of aviation ".
            Due to the lack of aviation, the conflict is even closer to
            1st World War than 2nd; (Hence the dominant
            the role of artillery, as in the 1st World War)
            In no case should this conflict be grounds
            for any strategic conclusions.
            1. +2
              April 12 2015 14: 34
              Quote: voyaka uh
              Military conflict in Ukraine goes without
              participation of aviation in general (for political reasons).

              These "political" reasons are called air defense systems. This is how a war of approximately equal in terms of development and military potential of opponents looks like.
              And what you are used to is a war of the strong against the weak.
              1. 0
                April 12 2015 17: 10
                The strongest gradually becomes weak as
                his aviation knocks out air defense systems and its fighter
                aviation. And only then they start against him
                ground operation. Which, under domination
                in the air no longer poses a big risk.
                So to conduct military operations is quite modern and rational.
                And, if you return to the aircraft carriers, then for this they
                and intended: to clear the air off the distant coast
                before ground operation.
                1. +1
                  April 12 2015 18: 32
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  The strongest gradually becomes weak, as his aircraft knock out air defense and its fighter
                  aviation.

                  How is this possible? You have broken cause and effect relationships. If someone is the strongest, then who can knock out air defense and aviation from him?
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  So to conduct military operations is quite modern and rational.

                  It is rational to destroy the enemy with artillery, and to destroy the enemy with aviation and missiles is expensive and not effective.
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  clear the air off the far coast
                  before ground operation.

                  Give an example in post-war history?
                  1. -1
                    April 13 2015 11: 20
                    "Give an example in post-war history?" ///

                    Well, at least two Iraqi wars.
                    Before the defeat of Saddam Hussein’s army, the Russian
                    the press did not call him the "army of the Papuans". But on the contrary,
                    called it "one of the most powerful modern armies."
                    Several aircraft carriers, destroying his air defense, aviation and
                    strategic objects in a short time turned it
                    Sun in the "army of the Papuans". After which the Americans alone
                    they took Baghdad with a blow.
                    1. 0
                      April 13 2015 20: 10
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      After which the Americans alone
                      they took Baghdad with a blow.

                      What happened with Basra for a long time?
                    2. +1
                      April 13 2015 22: 21
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      Well, at least two Iraqi wars.

                      What does the aircraft carrier have to do with it, Iraq was bombed from ground airfields, the share of aircraft carriers was PITUAL.
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      On the contrary
                      called it "one of the most powerful modern armies."

                      In the region, the words that you so brazenly cut out are "in the region"! Are you a liar?
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      After which the Americans alone
                      they took Baghdad with a blow.

                      Just one hit?
    3. +1
      April 12 2015 04: 53
      They cannot replace the understandable thing, but 154 axes with a mini-Papuan country, with interest ... and a roundabout of missile and bomb strikes ... for example, it will not take a ride across Russia ... since the AUG is not even close to our shores can, but the nuclear submarine will launch missiles from a distant frontier!
    4. +2
      April 13 2015 05: 48
      You dear far from military affairs, what kind of aircraft carrier can fight with enemy tanks, and even covered by air defense? Supporters of aircraft carriers usually cite the devastating results of attacks by an almost complete nuclear group of an atomic aircraft carrier on the maximum combat radius (48 rocket launchers * 4 anti-ship missiles "Harpoon" on each = 192 anti-ship missiles that unexpectedly hit the enemy warrant at 1000 km from the American aircraft carrier). This, of course, is beautiful, but ... The same "Hornet" without refueling is able to stay in the air for about 3 hours (although this time can be increased and decreased - the presence and capacity of the PTB, the weight of the combat load, flight profile, etc. are of great importance). But if, for example, it took 2 hours to lift the entire Nimitz air group, this would mean that by the time the last plane was torn off the deck of a giant ship, the hour of flight would remain the first! What sort of departure distance can I talk about here? The Hornets taking off first are unlikely to be able to retire for more than 15-20 minutes of flight from an aircraft carrier ... But what if 2 and 3 hours are needed to lift an air group? Then, by the time the last aircraft fly into the air, the first will have to land, because they are running out of fuel ... Therefore, the real range of the air group does not exceed 600 km, which makes the aircraft carrier unable to fight an enemy that has coastal anti-ship systems and the presence of a less stable air defense, you will take an interest in the 1991 Gulf War of the year and analyze the percentage of carrier-based sorties compared to conventional air forces (which just fought air defense) and conditions I where it has been applied before you write such nonsense.
  17. +2
    April 11 2015 16: 25
    “The advantages of our submarine fleet allow us to operate within the A2 / AD zone,” said retired first rank captain Jerry Hendrix, who works as a naval analyst at the New American Security Research Center. “This is a very powerful weapon that can act with impunity inside the access / blocking area.”

    This is Henrik or lying, or he is a complete ignoramus.
    To successfully destroy submarines, a surface fleet is not needed, it is enough to have VKS satellites, aviation and anti-submarine missiles.
    The boat has its own physical fields: sonar, magnetic, hydrodynamic, electric, low-frequency electromagnetic, as well as thermal, optical. Highlighting the physical fields of the boat against the background of the fields of the ocean (sea) underlies the main methods of detecting and depriving a submarine of its only advantage - stealth.
    Detection methods are created by the type of physical fields:

    Acoustic
    Magnetometric
    Radar
    Gas
    Thermal
    Electrolytic
    Optical (visual)
    In addition, there are indirect detection methods:
    Radio intelligence and surveillance
    Narrowness observation
    Correlation analysis
    No single method guarantees detection, so all methods are used together. They are constantly evolving and new ways are being sought.
    1. 0
      April 11 2015 17: 55
      Quote: Corsair5912
      This is Henrik or lying, or he is a complete ignoramus.

      This Henrik is not a layman. He is much smarter than most of our military submariners and all military historians who are published. At least Henrik knows that the effectiveness of a submarine is not measured by the number of enemy submarines sunk, but by ensuring the safety of navigation and the number of sunken and damaged warships and transports. Try to explain this to someone in Russia now? You can’t explain it to anyone. I’ve been trying to explain this on my fingers for about 10 years on different sites - everything is useless. Our professionals are not able to understand that in the PLO the main thing is to ensure the defense and to prevent attacks of enemy submarines, and not to hunt for those same submarines. The USA already understands this - they cannot understand this in our country. In Russia, there is not a single work on naval history that would not reflect the approach of calculating the number of enemy submarines sunk, but would use the calculation of the% of attacked ships and vessels out of the total number sailing in the region.

      And it’s useless to beat boats with planes without the presence of surface anti-submarine ships. Boats themselves can shoot down aircraft well and can almost always get away from aviation. A plane cannot hang over the area for a week or two and keep the area clean.

      But what I read here - I was pleased. If only because if it is published in the US Naval Institute, then the American military listens to its opinion. I won't say what exactly in his article made me happy.
      1. +2
        April 11 2015 21: 25
        Quote: Denis_469
        This Henrik is not a layman. He is much smarter than most of our military submariners and all military historians who are published.

        Quote: Denis_469
        Our professionals are not able to understand that in the PLO the main thing is to ensure the defense and to prevent attacks of enemy submarines, and not to hunt for those same submarines.

        Strategic submarine missile carriers do not attack the enemy fleet. And the use of underwater carriers of cruise missiles against the modern fleet simply did not take place.
        1. -4
          April 11 2015 23: 34
          Do you know where strategic missile carriers patrol? I hope you know that, for example, the patrol area of ​​the English SSBN is located almost at the equator in the center of the Atlantic Ocean. In order to maximize coverage. And if enemy transport appears in that area, then the boat will attack itself without a doubt. Chinese boats also go to the Pacific and Indian Oceans for combat services. And it is quite natural that in case of war they will also use missiles (RCC) and torpedoes against enemy warships, submarines and transports. In the USA it’s the same. Their boats unfolding in the Atlantic and the Pacific Ocean also have the purpose of destroying enemy merchant ships (transports) if the latter are in their area of ​​location.
          And besides strategists, there are torpedo and multipurpose boats.
          1. 0
            April 12 2015 05: 11
            SSBN attacks the transport ...? You’re not like Hendrix’s campaign, or whatever it is ..)))? You’re even cooler .. !!!
            1. 0
              April 12 2015 11: 42
              This is written in the documents that I had read. And the question of faith does not interest me at all.
          2. 0
            April 12 2015 11: 58
            The Sea of ​​Okhotsk is Russia's nuclear bastion.
      2. +2
        April 11 2015 22: 32
        Denis_469
        Boats themselves bring down planes well

        What is it like?! Anti-aircraft machine gun or MANPADS? Pop up? A rare way of suicide .. laughing
        1. -3
          April 11 2015 23: 44
          Strange - I didn't know that the Chinese boat was killing itself when it shot down 4 planes. Of these, 2 are stealth (B-2 and F-22). And another B-1B miraculously landed on Diego Garcia. Well, anti-aircraft missiles have not been canceled either. The Germans have long created a missile defense system for firing from a submerged position. Therefore, there is every reason to believe that such work is also being carried out in other countries of the world. For example, in the USA, Sidewinder missiles can be used on boats, which are fired from torpedo tubes in capsules like Tomahawks. And about MANPADS, everything is not so scary. We have recently (last year) adopted the Verba MANPADS. The firing range is 6,5 km and the height reach is 4,5 km. For an anti-submarine helicopter, it's oh and ah. And how the helicopters operate against the floated boat was shown to everyone by the Argentine boat. If the args were concerned about arming that boat with MANPADS, then the argas could knock down all the English verts, well, or how many missiles they had. In general, it will be very difficult for anti-submarine aircraft to attack a boat in a positional position. Since the size of the cabin is small. To bombard with depth charges, you need to get closer than 6,5 km. To drop torpedoes on it in the same way. There is no particular point in shooting anti-ship missiles. From the positional position, it goes under the water for 20-30 seconds. To hit the anti-ship missiles on the deckhouse of the boat, you need to shoot at point-blank range from a distance of less than 6,5 km. That again, in the affected area of ​​"Verba" or similar MANPADS. There are very few options for attacking boats in the sea or ocean during anti-submarine search. And so they adopted the Verba. If they make MANPADS with a range of 10-12 km, then it will be possible to safely shoot helicopters and PLO aircraft from the positional position.

          So anti-submarine planes and helicopters will kill themselves.

          History to help. Although I understand that she is of little interest to anyone. Therefore, I can say that there were boats that shot down 4 planes during their career.
          1. +2
            April 12 2015 05: 26
            Mdya ... hike you smoke PLO .. for a long time ... I have not read such nonsense for a long time! Ask about the distance from which you can drop-launch modern anti-submarine ammunition if an enemy submarine is detected! If you find a boat and there are modern means nearby PLO ... she’s already slurping some water ...! And one helicopter or PLO plane will not try to destroy the submarines right away, first of all it will direct all the PLO forces in the area, and then it will attack the submarines! You give an example the proper use of submarines and submarines by both sides in the Falklands ..))) is ridiculous! And submarines at the time of detection will only think about ... as if to quickly hide from the enemy who discovered it, and not to destroy it !!!
            1. +1
              April 12 2015 11: 51
              It’s your place to smoke PLO for a very long time. I have been creating a chronicle of submarine attacks for a very long time. That is, their combat use. And PLO, respectively.

              Quote: igorka357
              If a boat is discovered, and there are modern PLO facilities nearby ... it is already slurping some water ...!

              Can you give an example of such a boat? Offhand, I only remember the Pakistani SMPL, which the Ka-25 sank immediately upon detection. I don't remember anything else. Please remind me of whom you are talking about.

              Quote: igorka357
              And one helicopter or PLO plane will not try to destroy the submarines immediately, first of all, it will direct all the PLO forces in the area

              Wow, what people imagine. You wrote the theory. But in practice, no one uses it. Since the boat can be washed off. They attack all at once as they discovered. And no one is waiting for the boat to wash off. Of the cases known to me when they were waiting, there are only attacks by British anti-submarine aircraft against groups of German submarines defended by anti-aircraft fire. When 1 plane could not attack a group of 3-6 boats. Then yes - they waited. Apart from these cases, I do not know anything about expectations in submarine attacks in real wars. And not in exercises. If you know the cases in real wars when your theory worked, then write. I will be interested to know about her.

              Quote: igorka357
              You give an example of the non-competent use of submarines and submarines by both sides in the Falklands ..))) funny!

              I give examples from real wars. And not all kinds of teachings. And only the dead laugh at the experience of wars. That is, those who firmly decided to quickly die in the next war.

              Quote: igorka357
              And the submarine at the time of detection will only think about ... how to quickly hide from the enemy who discovered it, and not about its destruction !!!

              During wars, in order to quickly hide, it is often required to quickly bring down a plane. And very often this method worked. And again - I am writing about real wars. You mean the naked theory of theorists. I write as a specialist in combat use. You write as a professional with experience, most likely.
              1. +1
                April 12 2015 13: 11
                And you can refer to "stories to help", the Chinese and so on. guardsmen shot down 4 planes? In our time, of course.
                1. -2
                  April 12 2015 13: 22
                  Was Google banned? If not, you will find it yourself.
                2. -1
                  April 12 2015 13: 35
                  And Sidewinder from a torpedo tube, "like a Tomahawk" is also interesting)) Of course, at least rubber women can be fired from a TA, but a number of questions arise:
                  -How does a boat at working depth find out that there is an airplane above it?
                  -How does she know that this is an anti-submarine aircraft?
                  - as popping up to the depth of fire of an air defense system (let's say it is), it will not find itself, because Need to swim out quickly?
                  - and most importantly, who gives target designation to missiles to capture the target? Buoy radar?
                  1. -1
                    April 12 2015 16: 14
                    And read the reports on the BS of modern boats and how they hear with their GAS and anti-submarine aircraft and helicopters. In particular, "Conqueror" in 1982 already had such capabilities. I really understand perfectly well that you and others do not have the opportunity to read reports on the BS of modern boats. But believe me, this was already possible in 1982.

                    Quote: Lance
                    And Sidewinder from a torpedo tube, "like a Tomahawk" is also interesting))

                    It was also interesting to me - about 5 years ago, when the firing began. Now it’s not interesting.

                    Quote: Lance
                    how, floating up to the depth of fire of an air defense system (let's say it is), it will not find itself, because Need to swim out quickly?

                    Yes, you need fast. But only for MANPADS, and if these are tube missiles, then you do not need to surface - you only need to be at the depth of launch. MANPADS are mainly needed where the boat is forced to be on the surface. Like Argentinean for example.

                    Quote: Lance
                    - and most importantly, who gives target designation to missiles to capture the target? Buoy radar?

                    Hydroacoustics. Then there can be a television camera on the rocket for final guidance or homing like the Sidewinder.
                    1. -1
                      April 13 2015 14: 46
                      We didn't drink on "you". And do not poke into Google, they said - confirm. And about the Chinese, the Raptors from B2 knocking down, and about what it is possible there in 1982. Just not references to "perspective developments" and stupid cartoons from YouTube ...
                      And that there are a lot of sofa "specialists" with "take my word for it", with "reports on BS" at the level of OBS laughing
                      1. -1
                        April 13 2015 18: 15
                        I was not hired to work for all the fools. If someone wants to check my words - go ahead. In Google, nobody seems to have been banned yet. And personally, I did not engage in raising materials and looking for everyone what he does not know. Personally, I do not care who knows what or does not know. And I'm not going to prove anything to anyone. Since smart ones do not need to prove, they themselves know. And it’s useless to prove to fools. Therefore, the evidence makes no sense.
                      2. 0
                        April 14 2015 21: 22
                        Clear. Another hamish sofa troll amateur.
                        I will not feed bully
      3. 0
        April 12 2015 05: 09
        In my opinion, you have not even heard about the rotation of anti-submarine weapons! About the detection of submarines from satellites, from aircraft, and with the help of stationary hydrocaustic buoys, you too, no, no ...! And is the destruction of the enemy's submarine not a prevention of his attacks on ships and ships of allies, as well as ensuring the safety of their territorial waters ..? And you, somehow, look one-sidedly at the submarine fleet, it has different components, for example, strategic nuclear submarines serve to prevent anything at all from the side of a potential adversary, multi-purpose, low noise, for hunting enemy nuclear submarines! So my .. purely personal opinion that Hendrik is the same "not a layman" in this matter like you, but at least he is a submarine officer, but you ... I doubt very much, because be you are a submariner officer .. would not write that the boats are "hit" by planes
        1. -1
          April 12 2015 11: 59
          Quote: igorka357
          In my opinion, you have not even heard about anti-submarine rotation!

          I heard. And I also heard and read that during the war there will be 5 tasks for each anti-submarine ship in which it should take at the same time, and for every anti-submarine aircraft there will be at least 2 tasks in different areas where it should be at the same time. Our professional military people do not know this moment at all, because for them history is evil.

          Quote: igorka357
          And isn’t the destruction of enemy submarines the prevention of attacks on ships and ships of the Allies, as well as ensuring the security of their territorial waters ..?

          This view is correct. In part. Since it puts out the brackets of the question of how long and for how long forces should be diverted to its destruction. What losses can be incurred, how much merchant shipping will be slowed by the diversion of anti-submarine ships to hunt for the boat. In the event of losses, a hole arises in the anti-submarine capabilities, as a result of which the PLO of the region is weakened and the probability of losses from the following boats increases. There are still questions that arise when hunting boats. Here the Japanese often diverted their few forces to hunt for American submarines and left the transports unguarded or weakened. As a result, subsequent boats tore the convoys. The same tactics used and German boats. When 1 boat stood out, distracting part of the forces of the area’s PLO or the convoy that drove it. And all the rest meanwhile frolic as they could.

          Quote: igorka357
          So my .. purely personal opinion that Hendrik is the same "not a layman" in this matter like you, but he is at least a submariner officer, but you ... I doubt very much, because if you are a submariner officer .. not would write that the boats are "hit" by planes

          Unlike professional submariners, I am not a professional - I am a specialist in the history of submarines and their combat use. And the difference between a specialist and a professional is that the specialist understands the issue, although he may not make money on this issue. A professional always makes money on a question, but almost always does not understand it. Since money is being paid, what else is needed?
  18. +1
    April 11 2015 20: 31
    It is very bad that such thoughts come to their mind.
    Let's hope that smart people in the US will not be allowed into power in the near future.
    Their nuclear submarines are a greater threat to us than aircraft carriers.
    It’s better if they ruin their taxpayers with aircraft carriers that will not come close to our shores without harming themselves, than they are massively building submarines that can hit us for 1500 miles.
    Stolen in general our naval doctrine
  19. +1
    April 11 2015 22: 14
    It is of interest as a way to counter the KR and BR effects on the satellite constellation providing GPS navigation. Without it, long-range launches of more than 1000 miles are impossible. And the actions of attack aircraft will greatly limit it.
  20. +1
    April 12 2015 02: 29
    I think we already have a decent answer to this! And most likely from orbit.

    And let them knock hooves and horns!