Antique ammo

31
Without modern torpedoes, the submarine fleet does not make sense.

At the beginning of the 70 of the last century, the West came to a new ideology of torpedism, which provided a dramatic increase in the effectiveness of this weapons at much greater distances, giving it the opportunity to take into account the real tactical situation and difficult environmental conditions. Domestic approaches to solving this issue can be called "locomotive". The theory of tele-controlled torpedoes developed by our scientists was obviously unreal, and the fleet did not master it, did not understand and did not appreciate it.

Remote-controlled torpedoes have been developed in the world since the end of the 19th century. These works were brought to a practically significant result in Germany during the Second World War.

Kriegsmarine worked out two types of remote-controlled torpedoes (TTs) - with the Lerche self-homing system and a remote-controlled version of the straight-on G7e. The latter were in large numbers in service with coastal batteries, but they did not have combat use.

Lerche largely determined the subsequent half-century development of not only torpedoes, but also submarines (submarines). The main reason for the start of its development was the massive use of Foxers, the first towed anti-torpedo traps. At that level of development of this type of underwater weapon, it was practically impossible to detect and classify a target autonomously on the “board” of a torpedo. The task of circumventing the trap was solved by the operator, who had data not only from the torpedo head, but also from the hydroacoustic station (GAS) of the submarine, as well as information about the tactical situation.

By the end of World War II, the Germans did not have time to bring not only the “Lerche”. Low reliability was demonstrated even by quite widely used self-guided TV in military operations. However, the potential of the German developments was very high, as evidenced by their long life in the domestic post-war torpedoes SAET-50, SET-53M, SAET-60M, the main solutions for the homing system (CCH) which were borrowed from TV. On the one hand, these torpedoes managed to be brought to a very high level of reliability, on the other hand, the categorical conclusion of the Germans, based on combat experience, regarding the need for telecontrol (TU) to ensure noise immunity of the volley was not taken into account.

In the United States, with the advent of the first self-guided specimens, they began to create hydroacoustic countermeasures (SCPD), which ensured the active destruction of attacking torpedoes. The great success achieved in the production of the SCPD led to the cessation of the development of torpedo destruction weapons in the 60-s, and only in the 90-s were these works resumed.

From the beginning of the 50-ies, the US Navy began to conduct research exercises with the extensive involvement of submarines and anti-submarine forces, as well as the massive use of torpedoes and countermeasures. The most fundamental conclusion made then was the following: the timely use of the SFDS virtually guarantees protection against torpedoes. That is, the technological level of those years did not allow creating a CLA capable of providing an effective classification of targets. Three principal consequences resulted from this:

1. The need for large ammunition anti-submarine weapons on the ship (reaching the 60 torpedoes) to repel multiple attacks of the submarine.

2. The noise immunity of a torpedo salvo in a duel situation can be reliably ensured only at the expense of the DUT. From this point on, all submarine torpedoes in the US Navy became remote-controlled.

3. The timely use of the SCPD makes it possible to reliably evade the enemy's first sudden volley of an even more noisy submarine.

The last statement was the basis for the termination of the construction of diesel-electric submarines in the USA. Atomic ships of the US Navy received reliable means of hydroacoustic counteraction. At the same time, the effectiveness of remote-controlled torpedoes of the USA was obviously higher than domestic ones.

To the full extent

A serious problem with the first serial remote-controlled torpedoes - significant limitations on maneuvering and number in the salvo due to the use of a "towed" carrier telecontrol coil.

Antique ammoTT has two inertia-free coils - one in the torpedo, the other remains on the carrier, providing its sublimation maneuver submarine, that is, the wire itself is almost stationary relative to water. The towed boat reel (BLK) in case of use “falls out” together with the torpedo outside and hangs on the cable-rope (commensurate with the length of the submarine). Due to the impact of the oncoming flow, the BLK performs oscillatory movements that significantly reduce the reliability of the telecontrol, limit the submarine in speed and maneuver, and most importantly, make it impossible to use more than one remote-controlled torpedo in the salvo.

The first patent on a telecontrol hose reel dates back to December 2 1965. The following application filed by 15 July 1970-th, corresponds to the actual design of the telecontrol system of the upgraded torpedoes Mk 37 Mod 1 with the introduction of a hose boat coil (CLS). It can be assumed that initially the idea of ​​the SLK came from the Germans in the process of “binding” the Mk 37 Mod 1 to the torpedo tubes of the new German submarines of the 205 project. The development was tested, and at the end of the 60-x - the beginning of the 70-s was implemented in all Western TTs. SHLK dramatically increased the reliability of remote control, speed and maneuverability of the firing submarine, and most importantly - the ability to perform multi-torpedo volleys with remote control. This significantly increased the effective shooting distances and entailed significant changes in the design of both torpedoes with new sophisticated CLS and high-precision navigation systems, and submarines with the introduction of airborne paths and modes of using the sonar system (ASM).

The first domestic TT was TEST-68, created in 1968, on the basis of the antisubmarine torpedoes SET-53М with passive (noise-finding) CCH. Even then, several fundamental errors were made:

1. TEST-68 could and should have been universal (with the possibility of defeat and surface targets). Passive CLO and electromagnetic proximity fuze completely provided work on the ships, since they were created on the basis of the SAET-50 anti-ship torpedo equipment. Fixing the top of the anti-subdivision depth pendulum did not allow the torpedo to reach the target above the artificially introduced limit. The mass of the warhead (90 kg) from the point of view of classic anti-ship torpedoes that had 300 kilograms of explosives seemed insufficient, but as a self-defense torpedo and for firing at escort ships TEST-68 was quite suitable.

2. The low-speed channel TU provided the control of the torpedo only in the horizontal plane, excluding the possibility of changing the depth and effective use of difficult environmental conditions.

3. The TU algorithms that were completely divorced from life and required, among other things, significant hardware costs (on the upgraded submarines of the 641 project, the ship part of the Dolphin telecontrol system occupied the cabin).

4. The same algorithms ensured the use of only one torpedo in the salvo, despite the fact that in some submarines of the 641 project, under the TT, half of the torpedo tubes (TA) were being developed - two in the bow and four in the stern.

Shooting artisanal

The most effective solution for the 641 submarine of the project could be the implementation of a set of TUs as part of a small-sized command transmitter, but with manual calculation of TU data in a navigational way. Since the accuracy of the target data generation by the ship combat crew of the submarine was rather high, it actually required only a few corrections along the telecontrol line for each torpedo. Two operators could provide a multi-torpedo salvo (one on the plotter, the second on the small command transmitter).

Thus, the current fleet was really able to correct the mistakes of military and civilian scientists, but this did not happen. Attitude to TEST-68 on navy remained very ambiguous. Sometimes it came to the point that of the two submarines with telecontrol that were part of the compound, only TEST-68 fired - the one that had the most trained personnel capable of certain “makeshift modifications”. Such a situation developed, for example, in the late 70s in the 182nd brigade of the submarine in Bechevinka (Pacific Fleet), where all the firing of the TEST-68 was carried out by the B-101.

The proposal of the flagship mineral of the Polarinskaya brigade of the Submarine (SF) of Captain 2-rank Rank Yevgeny Penzin to conduct research exercises with TEST-68 firing at ships was directly prohibited by the head of the Directorate of anti-submarine weapons (UPV) of the Navy Sergei Butov.

A serious mistake of the Navy was the rejection of the use of remote-controlled torpedoes on nuclear submarines. The only exception is a small series of modified submarines of the 671 project with torpedoes TEST-71M. The well-known image from the TEST-71М sticking out of the submarine reflected all the problems of our TU, when an 2-generation nuclear-powered submarine was put up against the multi-purpose 1-made submarine of the 28 generation, which was very complex in accordance with the developer’s design. Neither the customer with his weapons institute (SRI-XNUMX), nor the developer (Central Research Institute AG and Central Research Institute Gidropribor) thought about firing remote-controlled torpedoes at low-noise submarines. All surveys made in this direction were initiated from operating fleets.

The telecontrol complex of the new torpedo TEST-71 repeated all the shortcomings of the TEST-68. But what about TEST-71, if Delphine’s erroneous solutions are still present in the “newest” TE-2 (remote-controlled electric universal self-guided torpedo) and UGST (universal deep-water self-guided torpedo).

Nevertheless, on diesel submarines, remote-controlled torpedoes were mastered quite well, which was greatly facilitated by the Knot combat information management system (CICS). Moreover, tactical techniques were developed that ensured high efficiency in dueling situations.

The idea was being introduced that atomic submarines, which had great speed, did not need remote control, only a torpedo complex in the form of an “automaton” was needed, which could literally fill up the sea with torpedoes. Nobody thought how much such an expenditure of ammunition, as well as a submarine of increased displacement would cost: a rich country, we will demand it will. But the main thing is not this, but the fact that having abandoned the telecontrol on the submarine, we agreed to a decrease in the effective firing distances to “pistol” - obviously smaller than that of the enemy. In addition, the noise immunity of the volley torpedoes of the USSR Navy against foreign ones using SCPD was obviously not provided in most tactical situations. In the case of the third world without the use of nuclear weapons, we were awaited by extremely heavy losses in underwater duels without the possibility of causing any serious damage to the enemy.

Automatic fixation

The former commander of the submarine forces of the US Navy, Admiral Bruce de Mars, estimated the likely loss ratio of the US and USSR / Russian submarines as 1 to 5. This estimate falls on the middle of the 90-s of the last century, that is, given in a situation where the Clinton administration was literally holding the US submarine shipbuilding. All statements by US Navy officials during this period had a pronounced hue of maximal and exaggerated advertising of the capabilities of the Russian Navy for withdrawing funds from the congress.

The main reason for what happened is the “theory of efficiency” (exactly in quotes) of the domestic torpedo weapon that is not related to reality and, accordingly, the erroneous mathematical models that justified this half-century lag of the national torpedoism. Moreover, this self-deception was inherent not only in the high metropolitan leadership and the people of pure science. Real torpedo firing was extremely rarely carried out in our fleet under the conditions of counteraction precisely because of the unwillingness to bring down the reported figures.

The low efficiency and reliability of American torpedoes demonstrated at the beginning of World War II in the United States were the subject of a “big torpedo scandal” followed by hard conclusions for the future. We were engaged in fraud and lied to each other, lulling ourselves with the thought that there would be no war anyway.

The current fleet was silent. Military science wrote regular dissertations and mastered new topics, limited to the truth no further than smoking. The industry had a universal answer to everything: we do, as the customer said (fleet).

For the first time, an automatic torpedo complex, which severely limited us further with remote control, was justified in the 705 project. His initial intent seemed very logical in the 60's. Since the third world was considered, of course, nuclear, the torpedoes in the 705 complex of the armament of the project were evaluated as purely secondary, and the main weapons were to be nuclear anti-submarine missiles (RDR) and Squall. In this case, the PCR 81P and "Squall" formed an effective weapon complex, where the "Squall" blocked the dead zone of the PCR, that is, the destruction of targets with high-speed nuclear weapons was ensured. The very high speed and maneuverability of the nuclear submarines of this project really allowed the US Navy to drive away from the Sabrok.

However, as early as the end of 60, the realization of the unacceptability of nuclear war between the superpowers came. At the beginning of the 70-ies appeared torpedo Mk 48, 55-nodal course which leveled the speed and maneuverability of the 705 project. Under these conditions, a serious reworking of the project with the introduction of non-nuclear PLR, remote-controlled (with SLK) universal torpedoes, was required. But moral strength, as well as the displacement reserve of the 705 project, was not enough. To admit the fallacy of the chosen direction of SPbM “Malachite” could not, continuing to promote the vicious idea of ​​the “machine gun” into the armaments of subsequent projects.

The half-century lag of domestic torpedo developments is not a consequence of technical, but purely organizational reasons. The proof of this is our individual successes. For example, the world's first serial aviation (Helicopter) VTT-1 remote-controlled torpedo (developed by the design bureau of the Dagdiesel plant). Or a magnificent channel of remote control (telemetry) of the torpedo "Tapir". Nevertheless, the overall result is depressing. The third generation nuclear submarines did not receive the telecontrol prescribed by him, which led to a sharp decrease in their effectiveness (the fake mathematical models of Malachite do not take into account the real counteraction at all). Will they get it in the modernization process? And if so, which one? Modern fiber optic providing multi-torpedo volleys, or the repetition of erroneous concepts of the 60s of the last century?

Today, the telecontrol of even “new” torpedoes of the type TE-2 and UGST corresponds to the technical level of Western developments of the 60-s of the last century. This situation does not seem to worry the officials in charge, as well as the costs to the country and the fleet of displaying antique solutions on modern weapon export models.

Little draw

A modern telecontrol system is a fiber optic system that provides multi-torpedo salvos at a distance of over 40 kilometers with the ability to effectively maneuver and dodge firing submarines. The high speed of transmission of the communication line should guarantee the information "joint" of the SSN of the torpedo with the SJC PL.

It is necessary to introduce telecontrol not only for torpedoes of a submarine caliber 53 centimeter, but also on the torpedoes of the “Package” complex of surface ships of the Navy, which is already happening in the West today. The same TT should be applied from a helicopter. The storage system of torpedo ammunition on the ships of the Navy should be done according to the western scheme, when the cellar is universal. This solution provides a multiple increase in the combat effectiveness of the “Package” complex both in case of a submarine defeat (especially for ships that do not have anti-submarine missiles) and for self-defense against torpedoes.

All the technical prerequisites for creating modern domestic torpedo telecontrol systems with high performance characteristics are available. Only one example - the complex of fiber-optic telecontrol developed by the VNII KP, developed a decade ago (OCD) was successfully surpassed in its performance characteristics by the best foreign analogue - TU in the German DM2A4 torpedo.

Of course, some alternative innovative solutions are possible. But it is necessary to clearly understand that these complexes need not just to be drawn on paper, but in fact to work out and hand over with all the related problems. Alternatives are good in terms of disbursement of funds and writing dissertations, but they leave the fleet without telecontrol for many years, which is necessary for practicing the proposed solutions.

In the West, not a single heavy torpedo is complete without a modern TU; moreover, it is being deployed on small-sized torpedoes. Without telecontrol, not only can there not be effective firing over long distances, even at short distances (“dagger”), it dramatically increases the effectiveness of the volley.

Without good telecontrol, there can be no modern torpedoes. Decisions must be made to ensure the elimination of our shameful half a century behind. All the technical prerequisites for this. Without addressing this issue, the construction of submarine forces of the Navy does not make sense.
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  1. Denis fj
    +7
    16 October 2014 14: 44
    And what about the procurement of torpedoes, who will reveal the secret? How many torpedoes has the fleet acquired since 2001 and how many torpedoes did it shoot?

    This is not only about the technical imperfection and obsolescence of domestic torpedoes, but also about the prohibitive shelf life of existing torpedo weapons. He is 30-40 years old.

    For a more or less tangible dilution of the "antiques", the Navy will need to acquire at least about a thousand torpedoes (for re-equipping the NK and submarines, as well as creating some stock in arsenals).

    Accordingly, as new torpedoes arrive, old ones need to be fired to improve practical skills.
    1. +6
      16 October 2014 15: 38
      Sorry, but I do not agree with you. Even in Soviet times, products have not been stored for so many years, I tell you as a person who knows this topic. Now the oldest products, a maximum of the 2nd half of the 90s. And new types of products come in sufficient quantities.
      1. +3
        16 October 2014 16: 18
        I remember last year’s article on torpedoes.
        http://topwar.ru/29752-est-li-torpeda-opasnee-shkvala.html
      2. 0
        19 March 2017 13: 05
        Quote: sever.56
        as a person who knows this topic

        like unknowing
        more precisely - cheap 3,14l
    2. 0
      16 October 2014 22: 44
      THE MAXIMUM STORAGE LIFE IS NOT MORE THAN 25 YEARS !!!
    3. saber1357
      -2
      18 October 2014 01: 54
      Listen, the article is half-delusional. Here, read the FIRST sentence: "Without modern torpedoes, the submarine fleet does not make sense." Comments, as they say, are unnecessary ...
  2. +3
    16 October 2014 14: 48
    Torpedoes are still the most powerful weapon on the sea, and their demand will not fall for a very long time, we wish our designers that after each modernization of the torpedo model, another masterpiece comes out.
  3. +6
    16 October 2014 14: 55
    He said correctly, the problem is not in our technological backwardness, but in the wrong system solutions. We are quite capable of creating torpedoes not worse, but much better than in the west, the main thing is to want!
    1. -3
      16 October 2014 15: 30
      The article is definitely a minus. And, something I did not understand .... why are American torpedoes better than ours? Mk 48 God forbid in 72 was adopted ... and nothing .... do not cry
      1. +2
        16 October 2014 15: 54
        Quote: FREGATENKAPITAN
        And, something I did not understand .... why are American torpedoes better than ours?

        It is likely that:
        Today, the remote control of even the “new” torpedoes of the TE-2 and UGST type corresponds to the technical level of Western developments of the 60s of the last century.

        For the same UGST write:
        Remote control is carried out on wires unwound from two coils - on a dashboard and on a submarine. The control complex uses a towed boat remote control coil. The impact of the flow of water at speed sometimes leads to the twisting of the towed coil and the breakage of the telecontrol wire. The use of a long cable cable to reduce this effect eliminates the use of remote control at shallow depths and the possibility of firing with multiple torpedo volleys (unlike Western and Chinese modern systems).


        In addition, it is not the Yankees who copy our torpedoes, but the USSR copied the same Mk.46 at home, calling it MPT-1.
        1. 0
          17 October 2014 07: 58
          yes, what are you panicking ... sofa minusers? .. The main torpedo SChA Mk48 was put into service in 1972 .... what year does the remote control correspond to there? .... Do not know how it is controlled? Yes, on the wiring, joystick ........ Everything has disappeared chef! Everything is lost!
          1. +3
            17 October 2014 11: 00
            Quote: FREGATENKAPITAN
            The main torpedo SCHA Mk48 was put into service in 1972 .... to which year does the remote control correspond to them?

            Everything would be fine, but since then the Mark-48 has turned into a Mark-48 mod.6 (ADCAP Block IV) and even a Mark-48 mod.7. The guidance and control system during this time was modified and changed 5 times (in particular, in the basic version of ADCAP they switched to digital).

            This is the same as claiming that the main air defense system of our air defense systems was adopted in 1978.
        2. 0
          17 October 2014 08: 02
          I do not want to offend ... ****** I did not hear anything ..... Read at your leisure how many American submarines sank themselves with their own torpedo!
  4. ISKANDER25
    0
    16 October 2014 15: 01
    Hello! Sea Thunderstorm!
  5. +3
    16 October 2014 15: 03
    Russian Kulibins in Russia are not transferred
  6. +4
    16 October 2014 15: 06
    By the way, why is a picture of Virginia attached to the news?)
  7. +2
    16 October 2014 15: 07
    Without good telecontrol, there can be no modern torpedoes. Decisions must be made to ensure the elimination of our shameful half a century behind. All the technical prerequisites for this. Without addressing this issue, the construction of submarine forces of the Navy does not make sense.

    The article is good, but sorry there is so much information on torpedoes. I’ll say it’s difficult to digest.
    One thing I realized is that we are probably not standing still, apparently, new developments are underway in this direction and may appear in the near future. But it is also not necessary to overlook the fact that these are secret developments and we do not need to know the details in the technical specifications.
  8. +14
    16 October 2014 15: 32
    For over X years I have been involved in the maintenance and repair of torpedo weapons. In the 20's, we also had remote-controlled products. The trouble with them is above the roof. Electronics was all analog, a bunch of relays and all sorts of nonsense. The officers, after practical firing, only swore, there were no other words. As a result, they were slowly written off. And I do not understand the author: - why did he get that torpedoes with telecontrol are super-weapons? This is utter nonsense. Modern autonomous torpedoes, with a complex of detuning from interference, two-channel guidance (AK) and (PC), the ability to maneuver and search in all coordinates, are better and not necessary. I know for sure that we have such product samples that Americans can only dream of.
    1. +3
      16 October 2014 17: 14
      Quote: sever.56
      For over X years I have been involved in the maintenance and repair of torpedo weapons. In the 20's, we also had remote-controlled products. The trouble with them is above the roof. Electronics was all analog, a bunch of relays and all sorts of nonsense. The officers, after practical firing, only swore, there were no other words. As a result, they were slowly written off. And I do not understand the author: - why did he get that torpedoes with telecontrol are super-weapons? This is utter nonsense. Modern autonomous torpedoes, with a complex of detuning from interference, two-channel guidance (AK) and (PC), the ability to maneuver and search in all coordinates, are better and not necessary. I know for sure that we have such product samples that Americans can only dream of.

      Thank you, comforted. And then I began to panic slightly, as I read the article. hi

      In fact, it was thought that our torpedoes couldn’t be as many wooden tusks as the author shows.

      The author is a well-deserved plus for drama. smile
    2. -1
      20 January 2015 04: 34
      do not smack nonsense - it hurts
      a sample of which "can dream" the Americans can name?
    3. +1
      19 March 2017 13: 08
      Quote: sever.56
      20-odd years I was engaged in the maintenance and repair of torpedo weapons

      an hour not YOU Bozin pug on the check "drove"? - given YOUR stupidity and dope is not surprising

      Quote: sever.56
      We also had remote-controlled products. The trouble with them is above the roof.

      because YOU personally have hands from w.

      for others - everything worked fine

      Quote: sever.56
      better and not necessary. I know for sure that we have such product samples that Americans can only dream of.

      hmm ... it looks like you are a drug addict ...
  9. +2
    16 October 2014 15: 45
    You know .... Shut up !!!!!!
    1. +1
      16 October 2014 23: 26
      Quote: Dormidosha
      You know .... Shut up !!!!!!

      +1
  10. +8
    16 October 2014 15: 45
    "On some 641 submarines, under the TT, half of the torpedo tubes (TA) were developed - two on the bow and four on the stern."
    Hm !? Dear author! Tell me at least one post-war submarine with aft torpedo tubes !? Or is it the torpedo tubes themselves were being finalized ... some in the bow, others in the end?
    "against foreign countries applying the SRS"Erm! The author should not forget that the first systems of hydroacoustic countermeasures in the USSR were tested even on nuclear submarines of 1 projects.
    Pancake! Well, then ... blah blah blah and ultimately the reluctance to comment, nevertheless overcame.
    In general ... the original article was again written by some "hack". I will not deny some backwardness in Soviet torpedo weapons (and even then, only in terms of travel range and speed), but I will say:
    The author of the original article gives a fundamentally wrong conclusion! The future of torpedo weapons is not for remote control, but for self-control! Just when developing future torpedoes you need to create homing heads with a high level of noise immunity and using the principle of SELECTION of noise and targets.
    IMHO.

    PySy: After all, in the end! Imagine the situation: two opposing boats enter into a duel situation (for example, they discovered each other at about the same moment). Which boat will have an advantage: the one that fires (even) 6 remote-controlled torpedoes (read controlled by wires), or the one that fires at least 2, but homing (with high noise immunity)?
    In the first case ... the boat's anti-torpedo maneuver is almost IMPOSSIBLE because of these "power lines" that stretch from the boat to the torpedoes.
    In the second case ... the fired boat (firing 2 torpedoes) begins to perform active anti-torpedo maneuvering (with a change in heading, diving depths and firing of noise and sonar traps).
    I give 8 from 10 for the fact that the boat that launched the homing torpedoes will be the winner!
    hi
    1. 0
      16 October 2014 16: 15
      Quote: doxtop
      Hm !? Dear author! Tell me at least one post-war submarine with aft torpedo tubes !?

      Project 641 ("clean", not "beeches"). 6 NTA, 4 KTA.
      http://www.deepstorm.ru/DeepStorm.files/45-92/dts/641/list.htm
      You can still recall projects 613 and 633 (6 + 2). And the project 641 with 4 KTA caliber 400 mm.
      1. 0
        17 October 2014 12: 00
        Quote: Alexey RA
        http://www.deepstorm.ru/DeepStorm.files/45-92/dts/641/list.htm

        laughing Ahh! Well, I apologize! I immediately thought of the submarine. wassat
        hi
    2. +2
      16 October 2014 17: 31
      Quote: doxtop
      PySy: After all, in the end! Imagine the situation: two opposing boats enter into a duel situation (for example, they discovered each other at about the same moment). Which boat will have an advantage: the one that fires (even) 6 remote-controlled torpedoes (read controlled by wires), or the one that fires at least 2, but homing (with high noise immunity)?

      Let's get a look.
      If the boat with "clean" homing torpedoes fired first, then its targets should just try to get away from the area in which this torpedo will look for it. Because to win the "first salvo" the distance to the target must be large - at the limit of the SAC operation - otherwise the target will have time to detect the enemy and react. At the same time, the onboard homing torpedo seeker in terms of capabilities is much worse than the ISSAPL: the target acquisition range of the homing torpedo seeker for the same UGST is 15 kbt. So the target has time until the torpedo reaches from the launch point to the capture line of the onboard seeker.

      If the first shot was a boat with remote-controlled torpedoes (with homing in the final section), then its goal to go would be much more difficult. Because the torpedo will be induced all the way, and not just in the final section. The advantage of TU is the correction of the trajectory of the torpedo in real time with its output to the current real position of the target, and not to the calculated area. In fact, a wire-guided torpedo with homing in the final section is an underwater AIM-120 AMRAAM.

      The only way out for a boat with homing torpedoes, which became the goal for a boat with TU torpedoes, is to launch the homing torpedoes in return with a loss of time for the detection-capture-trajectory calculation-issuing of the control center torpedo-launch. And even if after detecting a return launch, a boat with TU torpedoes starts to maneuver with a break in TU lines, then for its torpedoes that have switched from telecontrol to inertial, the probability of hitting it will be higher. Just because torpedoes with TU have already passed part of the path with the correction of the trajectory of the real position of the target. And for their purpose, the size of the area in which she manages to maneuver will be smaller.

      PS The only way to increase the chances of winning for "clean" homing torpedoes is to increase the speed in the section from the moment of launch to the turn-on of the seeker. But this is a double-edged sword: increasing speed requires a powerful engine and more fuel, and this is an MGH torpedo. And since the dimensions of the 1st compartment cannot be infinitely inflated, then the ammunition will have to be reduced. And second, the higher the speed, the more noise unmasking both the torpedo and the launch site. And the target has a margin of time for the oncoming launch at fairly precisely defined coordinates.
    3. +1
      16 October 2014 23: 36
      Quote: doxtop
      "On some 641 submarines, under the TT, half of the torpedo tubes (TA) were developed - two on the bow and four on the stern."
      <...>
      I give 8 from 10 for the fact that the boat that launched the homing torpedoes will be the winner!
      hi

      +1

      The intelligence of target selection and interference detuning systems is growing exponentially.
      Wired connection, it is of course reliable and controlled. But it unambiguously limits the attacker's ability to maneuver until the target is hit. A wide and fast circulation, with a change in depth ... no, I do not believe it.

      I will not be surprised that soon (or maybe there already is) some kind of torpedo analogue of "granites", etc., will appear, when one or a group of nuclear submarines performs a synchronous launch and the whole flock attacks a single or group target, with maneuvers on depth and horizon, data exchange, established priorities, assessment of the degree of defeat and re-aiming at a new target, with a dynamic change of the "leader", etc., etc.
      winked
      1. -1
        20 January 2015 04: 40
        issues of faith are considered in theological forums

        Have you seen a cable on many western submarines around the rudders? - this is the answer to the "restrictions" of the TR on the maneuver - there are practically NO
    4. 0
      16 October 2014 23: 55
      Well, at least stay afloat!
    5. 0
      16 October 2014 23: 55
      Well, at least stay afloat!
    6. -1
      20 January 2015 04: 37
      Autonomous torpedoes in most cases will go into "milk" (on the SGPD), and a normal modern TU (western) provides TU without restrictions on maneuver up to full turns of diesel-electric submarines (providing good noise immunity and correction of firing data due to the integration of information from the CLS torpedo and SAC PL)
  11. +2
    16 October 2014 15: 56
    Quote: sever.56
    I know for sure that we have such product samples that Americans can only dream of.

    Well, share information if they are not secret.
    And the article is kind of hard, maybe it is interesting to specialists, but it was hard for me to read and understand.
    1. 0
      16 October 2014 16: 19
      Sorry, but not yet.
      1. 0
        1 November 2015 15: 41
        Sorry, but YOU are stupid LIAR
    2. -1
      17 October 2014 08: 06
      Yes, they’re trying to steal a hundred-year flurry by all means ..... Article once again I say from a series
      1. -1
        1 November 2015 15: 42
        about "steal the Flurry" you "sang propaganda", in fact, the amers were interested in something completely different and they have already bypassed us
  12. Alexander
    +2
    16 October 2014 16: 01
    The latest statement was the basis for the cessation of construction of diesel-electric submarines in the United States
    Nonsense, there is simply no need to patrol the coastal area with submarines, which is what DEPLs usually do, there someone else’s boat appears once a year. So they completely abandoned them - all countries aggressors are across the ocean.
  13. Alexander
    +1
    16 October 2014 16: 02
    Quote: ISKANDER25
    Hello! Sea Thunderstorm!


    The red star on the American boat looks silly.
  14. TECHNOLOGY
    +1
    16 October 2014 19: 36
    Alyo! Moreman! Submariners, your mother is rastak! Where is the skerry? Let's get on the topic.
    1. -1
      17 October 2014 08: 08
      And I said on the topic ... and from conspecific specialists I got cons
  15. -1
    16 October 2014 21: 48
    I put a minus I saw these "280 Teletubbies" and that no one said that at a depth of zero visibility they are good only for engineering structures and non-mobile targets in control; hollow hemorrhoids operator error is very high (visibility and speed) and ISHPs are quite good for countering (533 mm submarine noise simulator) at one time it was quite a good 260 product. There are a lot of infa in the article, but it is shown how everything is one-sided, after all, time is not worth it, and you understand that from the St. Petersburg Institute of Mine and Torpedo Weapons, you understand, they will not report to us there, too, not fools, but no one is immune from mistakes and miscalculations. Yes, and I was holding the coils with this cable in my hands, well, very unreliable and capricious, I'll tell you a thing
    1. -1
      20 January 2015 04: 42
      monsieur, change your avatar, do not disgrace

      260 product is TORPEDA SET-65
  16. 0
    20 October 2014 15: 11
    It was the Mk48 that sank our Kursk, and it was invented about 45 years ago. And nothing, mattress toppers are not going to give it up.