Military Review

The first flight of the PAK DA will be held in 2019 year

68
The first flight of a promising long-range aviation complex aviation (PAK YES) will be held in 2019, according to RIA "News" with reference to the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Air Force Viktor Bondarev.

The first flight of the PAK DA will be held in 2019 year


"In the 2019, the year must go on the first flight of the factory, in the 2021, to begin the flow," said Bondarev about the status of the PAK DA project at a press conference on the eve of the Air Force.

Earlier it was reported that the new subsonic strategic bomber will solve problems that are currently performed by three types of aircraft: the Tu-22, Tu-160 and Tu-95MS. According to unofficial information, hypersonic may appear on the PAK DA weapon.

It is planned that the new bomber will have high combat power and the ability to overcome modern air defense. The machine will receive high-precision aviation weapons and the latest complex of electronic warfare.
Photos used:
ru-an.info
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  1. Stalevar
    Stalevar 12 August 2014 06: 53
    +26
    The day begins with good news! If ours set a goal, they will certainly do it. If only financing was regular.
    1. Sunjar
      Sunjar 12 August 2014 07: 04
      +18
      The main thing is not to write off old planes, but to preserve them, since this miraculous technique is incredibly cool, but if it were lost, you could at least throw something into battle. Modern precision weapons require a lot of time and resources. So you always need to be able to arrange the production of military equipment, so that there is a lot, cheap and cheerful.
      1. muginov2015
        muginov2015 12 August 2014 10: 16
        0
        I hope the Kremlin has enough brains for this.
    2. Canep
      Canep 12 August 2014 07: 05
      +2
      Quote: Stalevar
      If only financing was regular.
      Lishba this funding is not sawn.
      1. zao74
        zao74 12 August 2014 08: 56
        -2
        Shoigu will not allow sawing. And the plane is handsome.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 12 August 2014 09: 17
          +3
          And the plane is handsome.

          You have not seen the plane, but judge its appearance. What is in the picture is just a fantasy from the Internet.
          1. Max otto
            Max otto 12 August 2014 09: 21
            +2
            Quote: Wedmak
            And the plane is handsome.

            You have not seen the plane, but judge its appearance. What is in the picture is just a fantasy from the Internet.

            Moreover, with attempts to supersonic, which contradicts the mission to the plane.
            1. Praetorian
              Praetorian 12 August 2014 11: 29
              0
              On assignment can not place supersonic weapons?
              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak 12 August 2014 14: 42
                0
                Why so? On the contrary, they want to place hypersonic missiles.
              2. Iline
                Iline 12 August 2014 20: 09
                0
                What does the armament have to do with it. On assignment, the aircraft should be subsonic.
    3. subbtin.725
      subbtin.725 12 August 2014 07: 21
      +1
      Listen, well, it's just some kind of monster, in the good sense of the word for Russia. Good luck to the gunsmiths.
      1. Cormorants
        Cormorants 12 August 2014 07: 24
        0
        Tell me why it will be subsonic ?? Isn't supersonic better!
        And of course good luck to the designers!
        1. Demon0n
          Demon0n 12 August 2014 09: 19
          +3
          Quote: Cormorants
          Tell me why it will be subsonic ?? Isn't supersonic better!
          And of course good luck to the designers!


          Supersound is better for what?
          It all depends on the desired goal. If you expand the logical chain, then from the problems ...
          They rushed that the inconspicuous one is more suitable for a number of reasons ...
          I can assume ...
          Since this is a platform, then:
          1) The platform must be securely hidden in order to increase survivability.
          2) The platform should provide a significant "anxiety interval" (hang as long as possible, waiting for the development of events, and be able to move to another area when circumstances change).

          Supersound is not needed for this (moreover, the concept of supersonic at the current technological level contradicts these points), but low visibility is needed.

          Supersound gives only one indisputable advantage - it’s deployment speed, and one controversial (since it’s already very slow on this one) - survivability during an air defense / missile defense breakthrough.
    4. Nayhas
      Nayhas 12 August 2014 07: 25
      -5
      Quote: Stalevar
      The day begins with good news! If ours set a goal, they will certainly do it. If only financing was regular.

      None of the aircraft entered service with the USSR / RF Air Force within the deadline set by the schedule; None of the aircraft matched the original TTZ. So do not promise, time will tell ...
      PS: Absolutely empty idea with a completely expected no ending. With a reduction in the defense budget (and this cannot be avoided), this project is one of the first to stop. PAK-FA priority ...
      1. Hippopotamus
        Hippopotamus 12 August 2014 07: 37
        +7
        None of the aircraft entered service with the USSR / RF Air Force within the deadline set by the schedule, None of the aircraft matched the original TTZ

        Both Americans and Europeans have the SAME thing, if not worse, so this is normal. The main thing is the final product. If there is no "hot" war, it is better with a delay, but of high quality, than vice versa. As they say, measure seven times ...
        1. Nayhas
          Nayhas 12 August 2014 07: 51
          +1
          Quote: Hippo

          Both the Americans and the Europeans are doing the SAME, if not worse, so this is normal.

          This is to ensure that the announced date should be added to the number of years.
          Quote: Hippo
          If there is no "hot" war, then it is better with a delay, but with high quality

          At the expense of quality, I can refer to the history of the creation of the Tu-160, how things were with quality ... Fortunately, now you do not need to look for bookshelves, everything is online.
        2. asar
          asar 12 August 2014 08: 14
          +1
          "The pride" of the amerskih Air Force, the "supernova" in fact turned out to be complete "bullshit"! Where did the "grandmothers" of the Yankes - taxpayers - fly away - the "great secret"!
      2. Wedmak
        Wedmak 12 August 2014 09: 40
        +1
        Any aircraft, tank, armored car, bicycle does not comply with the statement of work. Already at the stage of calculation and design of assemblies, the fitting of TK to the product and the product to TK begins. Somewhere with a sledgehammer, somewhere with a stroke of the handle.
        In addition, the creation of new machines on time did not fit. Even if the prototype was shown on time, it was adjusted and changed for another 2-3 years.
        PAK-FA priority ...

        He is already at state tests, and I think he will pass them in the near future. It remains to deploy mass production.
    5. Hammer
      Hammer 12 August 2014 07: 34
      0
      On the one hand, this is good news, but on the other hand, such "shock" terms of raising the first glider into the air are not so much alarming ... Well, wait and see. May God grant our engineers perseverance and uninterrupted funding in the required volumes, and the talent and perseverance of our aircraft manufacturers are well known. In general, we hope and wait!
    6. Juborg
      Juborg 12 August 2014 07: 40
      0
      The only question is why the supersonic "Harley" Tu-160 will be replaced by the subsonic PAK DA? Are subsonic engines better than supersonic ones? Or is the new strategic bomb carrier too heavy? In general, questions, one question. The concept of the missile carrier is incomprehensible. And judging by the layout, the missile and bomb load will not be increased. Of course I wanted to see something like that, imperceptible, with supersonic, relatively maneuverable, with entry into the stratosphere, with a bomb rack twice as large as the current ones.
      1. Matrosov
        Matrosov 12 August 2014 08: 21
        0
        A controversial issue, all the same, planes are now more vulnerable to air defense, even with low visibility they are not invisible, if there are several points of airspace control by different systems, then the aircraft will be calculated. Increasing the bomb load will make the aircraft even larger, and add a bunch of problems to reduce ESR. It remains to be hoped that the aircraft will be good, and will cope with its functions. And the best task for him would be to go unnoticed in dialing to the launch point of cruise missiles of commercials 3-5 thousand kilometers from the target, then you would not have to enter the enemy’s air defense / missile defense zone, and there would be a lot of possible launch points for a complete blockade.
        1. Iline
          Iline 12 August 2014 20: 31
          0
          How long have supersonic aircraft appeared? That's right, back in the last century. And what caused such a passionate craving for supersonic? I wanted to overcome enemy air defense without loss. Over time, air defense systems improved and there was a craving for even greater supersonic speeds. But the air defense systems did not stand still. As a result, they came to a standstill at speeds, because air defense systems are guaranteed to bring down the aircraft at any speed. The same message is true for increasing flight altitude.
          Now a new feature - using stealth technology to reduce the EPR of the aircraft, i.e. its detection range and due to supersonic speed still try to break through, because time to make a decision and attack in air defense calculations is reduced. But air defense means again do not stand still and stealth now does not present a visible danger., About speed read above.
          Long-range Aviation needs a reliable, economical and long-hanging carrier for cruise missiles in the area of ​​a given launch. However, he does not enter the enemy’s air defense zone.
          Quote: juborg
          The only question is why the supersonic "Harley" Tu-160 will be replaced by the subsonic PAK DA?

          For one simple reason - as soon as this creation of engineering thought comes to supersonic, the range of its flight, and, consequently, the time it is in the air, immediately decreases critically. Where was he going to break at supersonic speed? Until now, the main workhorse of DA are subsonic Tu-95MS, not Tu-160.
          Given the fact that the commander of DA Zhikharev never flew a Tu-95, but only a Tu-160, but at one time commanded a division with both types of aircraft, he has something to compare when issuing a technical task.
      2. Demon0n
        Demon0n 12 August 2014 09: 50
        +2
        Quote: juborg
        The only question is why the supersonic "Harley" Tu-160 will be replaced by the subsonic PAK DA? Are subsonic engines better than supersonic ones? Or is the new strategic bomb carrier too heavy? In general, questions, one question. The concept of the missile carrier is incomprehensible. And judging by the layout, the missile and bomb load will not be increased. Of course I wanted to see something like that, imperceptible, with supersonic, relatively maneuverable, with entry into the stratosphere, with a bomb rack twice as large as the current ones.


        Supersound gives only one indisputable advantage - it’s deployment speed, and one controversial (since it’s already very slow on this one) - survivability during an air defense / missile defense breakthrough.
        It all depends on the desired goal. If you expand the logical chain, then from the problems ...
        We decided that the inconspicuous one is more suitable for a number of reasons ...
        Since this is a platform, then:
        1) The platform must be reliably hidden in order to increase survivability (we are talking about a platform on which weapons of destruction, including tactical class weapons, will be placed, ie there is no need to illuminate the platform at "guaranteed" distances for detection and destruction).
        2) The platform should provide a significant "anxiety interval" (hang as long as possible, waiting for the development of events, and be able to move to another area when circumstances change).
        Speed ​​(achievable) is not a panacea (the exception is missiles of the operational, tactical and strategic classes, because there is a need to overcome air defense / missile defense at critical distances: i.e. the probability of detection is one, the probability of defeat is ...).
        If we take into account such elements as the threatened period and the "troubled" period, then everything will fall into place.
    7. Giant thought
      Giant thought 12 August 2014 08: 06
      +1
      We hope that the words will not go wrong with the deed, and in due time our thunderer will take off into heaven.
    8. asar
      asar 12 August 2014 08: 09
      +1
      I agree! And also - Congratulations, Aviators! Happy Air Force Day! good love drinks
  2. mig31
    mig31 12 August 2014 06: 53
    +4
    Fantasy!!! Really survived !!! Where are my twenty !!!
  3. Deadmen
    Deadmen 12 August 2014 06: 55
    +3
    luxury bird
  4. Bassoon
    Bassoon 12 August 2014 06: 56
    0
    More ultra-modern aircraft for our Air Force!
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 12 August 2014 07: 13
      +10
      super modern? this project was frozen in in 1971. in fact it is a T-4MS ("200")
      On November 28, 1967, the Council of Ministers of the USSR issued Decree No. 1098-378, which spoke about the start of work on a new multi-mode strategic intercontinental aircraft (CMC). Developers were required to design and build a carrier aircraft with extremely high flight data. For example, the cruising speed at an altitude of 18000 m was set at 3200-3500 km / h, the flight range in this mode was determined within the range of 11000-13000 km, the flight range in high-altitude flight at subsonic speed and near the ground was 16000-18000 km and 11000-, respectively 13000 km. Impact weapons were supposed to be interchangeable and included air-based missiles (4 x X-45, 24 x X-2000, etc.), as well as freely falling and adjustable bombs of various teals and purposes. The total mass of the combat load reached 45 tons.

      The project of the 160M aircraft did not receive support due to its TTX mismatch. Colonel-General V.V., who was the commander of long-range aviation at that time Reshetnikov said at a meeting about the design bureau of A.N. Tupolev: “You are actually offering us a passenger plane!” Oil was also added to the fire by the fact that the aerodynamic quality of the presented aircraft was erroneously overestimated in the report.
      The T-4MS aircraft impressed the military and attracted great attention. This “breakthrough” aircraft, quite possibly, could not be kept by the air defense system of the 80-90s.
      The design of the M-20 design bureau of V.M. Myasishchev Design Bureau, although it was noted that it was well designed and met the requirements of the Air Force, was rejected due to the fact that the newly recreated design bureau did not have the necessary scientific, technical and production base for its implementation .
      As a result, the Sukhoi Design Bureau, having experience in creating the T-4 strike aircraft, became the winner of the competition. But for the construction of the “two hundred”, he needed to give the Kazan plant, and no one wanted it. Moreover, the design bureau created a new multi-functional fighter T-10 (Su-27), modifications of the Su-17M and T-6 (Su-24) aircraft were in progress. The transfer of Sukhoi Design Bureau to "heavy" aviation threatened to disrupt all of these programs.

      Condition

      At the end of the meeting, Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force P.S.Kutakhov spoke: “You know, let's decide this way. Yes, the design of the Design Bureau of P.O. Sukhoi is better, we paid tribute to him, but it has already become involved in the development of the Su-27 fighter, which we really, really need. Therefore, we will make this decision: we acknowledge that the winner of the competition is Sukhoi Design Bureau, we are obliged to transfer all materials to the Tupolev Design Bureau so that it carries out further work ... "
      Design Bureau A.N. Tupolev refused documentation on the T-4MS aircraft and continued to form the appearance of a new strike “aluminum” aircraft with a variable sweep of the wing, which ultimately led to the creation of the Tu-160 bomber. With the same combat load with the T-4MS and almost the same flight range at subsonic speed, the Tu-160 had a flight mass greater by 35% and a flight range at 2–3 times shorter at supersonic speed.
      Although the work on the T-4MS project in OKB P.0. Sukhoi were discontinued after the end of the competition, the ideas laid down in this aircraft were embodied in many modern machines, such as the Su-27, MiG-29, Tu-160 and help to create aircraft of the XNUMXst century.



      1. Bassoon
        Bassoon 12 August 2014 07: 34
        0
        Well, thank you for the educational program. But just the phrase hypersonic weapon made me add the prefix "super". From now on I will be attentive.
      2. Moore
        Moore 12 August 2014 07: 38
        +3
        I believe that only the picture on the splash screen corresponds to the project you specified. She really has forms for flying on hypersound and jumping from dense layers of the atmosphere.
        If we consider that they are planning something subsonic, then it is not clear at all how this pepelats will look ...
      3. Dezinto
        Dezinto 12 August 2014 07: 47
        +3
        After all, Soviet designers were able to look into the future!
      4. avt
        avt 12 August 2014 09: 24
        0
        Quote: Gleb
        At the end of the meeting, Air Force Commander P.S. Kutakhov spoke:

        Everything is so, but it seems like the Minister of MAP made these words, and at the meeting he was with Grandfather. So, in the end, Grandfather pressed the topic from Sukhoi and Myasishchev - conceptually, the Tu -160 scheme is Myasischevskaya.
        Quote: Nayhas
        None of the aircraft matched the original TTZ.

        It was different, but on the whole, yes, always a fine-tuning is required and the engines do not always give design power.
        Quote: Nayhas
        None of the aircraft entered service with the USSR / RF Air Force within the deadline set by the schedule,
        In this case, just a strong-willed decision to put the machine in combat units. And so it was with the Yakovlev interceptors, and the Tu-160 only with the Goskommisia’s GDP was accepted, and so it has flown since Soviet times as if it’s illegal.
        1. Chicot 1
          Chicot 1 12 August 2014 10: 57
          -1
          When the task came to "mold" the Tu-160, the "Grandfather" was no longer alive. How could he squeeze out something from Sukhoi and Myasishchev? .. From the other world or what? ..

          The fact that Myasischev proposed a scheme for the future strategist is your truth. But that is an interesting moment - Myasishchev, for all his genius, was not at all engaged in the refinement and improvement of his machines, but immediately took up the next project ... A striking example is his 3M ...

          And "weaving" of Sukhoi has little in common in the layout of the Tu-160. Even at the initial stage ...

          So don't blame me, but "minus" ...
          1. avt
            avt 12 August 2014 12: 58
            -1
            Quote: Chicot 1
            And "weaving" of Sukhoi has little in common in the layout of the Tu-160.

            And where does the 100ka? Sotka, for that matter, is a competitor to the Tu-22M "brick", which, again, Grandfather promised to quickly modernize the Tu-22, but made a new car. And Sukhoi's strategist was walking under a different "hoof", that's the same in the picture for this article. Will you be minus? laughing
            Quote: Gleb
            On November 28, 1967, the Council of Ministers of the USSR issued Decree No. 1098-378, which spoke about the start of work on a new multi-mode strategic intercontinental aircraft (CMC).

            And perhaps I’ll put a minus - Grandfather actually died in Moscow in 1972, so given
            Quote: Gleb
            this project was frozen in in 1971. in fact it is the T-4MS ("200")

            The meeting was even earlier and described according to the memoirs of Sukhovtsy.
            1. Chicot 1
              Chicot 1 12 August 2014 13: 33
              -1
              Quote: avt
              Grandfather actually died in Moscow in 1972, so given

              The meeting was in 1967, and the projects of Myasishchev and Sukhoi were considered the very same in 1972 ... And when you consider that Grandfather retired even earlier ...
              Quote: avt
              And where does the 100ka?

              What does this have to do with it? .. She was taken as the basis of the T-4MS ... Or am I mistaken? ..
              Quote: avt
              The meeting was even earlier and described according to Sukhov

              And where is the guarantee that the aforementioned "Sukhovets" did not stryndel? .. Especially against a more successful competitor, which turned out to be Tupolev Design Bureau as a result ...
              Quote: avt
              Will you be minus?

              We will, until you study the topic ... wink
              1. avt
                avt 12 August 2014 14: 04
                -1
                Quote: Chicot 1
                What does this have to do with it? .. She was taken as the basis of the T-4MS ... Or am I mistaken? ..

                Quote: Chicot 1
                We will, until you study the topic ..

                That's exactly what it is better to study the topic at least a little bit, then you will definitely know than 100k, what it’s like still in Monino is worth, which Ilyushin was experiencing, by the way famously dissecting the Bullfinches by car, from the strategist who was put up for competition by the Sukhovites and who the picture in the article differs and where the legs grow from these completely different projects, it’s not difficult to understand this, it’s enough to even look at the appearance of a living machine -100i and an EP strategist - pictures.
                Quote: Chicot 1
                And where is the guarantee that the aforementioned "Sukhovets" did not stryndel ?.

                Actually, this person is Samoilovich, a direct participant in the creation of both the hundred and Su-25 and Su-27, his share is not small, I have not been noticed in this, and somehow I trust him much more than the search glitches a la Grandfather retired , all the more so since he himself observed in another industry on the example of one academician, how old people do not leave the business until the very end. Such was their upbringing. So, according to Samoylovich’s recollections, the decision was made by Dementyev, being the Minister of MAP.
                1. Chicot 1
                  Chicot 1 12 August 2014 15: 21
                  -1
                  Quote: avt
                  That's exactly what it is better to study the topic at least a little bit, then you will definitely know than 100k, what it’s like still in Monino is worth, which Ilyushin was experiencing, by the way famously dissecting the Bullfinches by car, from the strategist who was put up for competition by the Sukhovites and who the picture in the article differs and where the legs grow from these completely different projects, it’s not difficult to understand this, it’s enough to even look at the appearance of a living machine -100i and an EP strategist - pictures

                  And then what? .. By this you deny that the "weaving" served as the basis for the T-4MS (which, by the way, the commission rejected in favor of the development of the Myasishchev Design Bureau)? ..
                  Quote: avt
                  Actually this person is Samoilovich

                  Perfectly. Only Sukhoi Design Bureau lost this competition at the stage of project consideration ...
                  Quote: avt
                  it’s better to study the topic at least a little, then you’ll definitely know

                  So ... In 1967, a decree was issued and two design bureaus were included in the work - Myasishchev and Sukhoi. In 1972 they submit their projects to the state commission. The Commission gives preference to the Myasishchev Design Bureau project (which means that the "200" flew like plywood over Paris at the design stage) ...
                  But then something happens that gave and gives reason for "lovers of truth-seeking" to accuse Tupolev Sr. (who at that time, if not dead, was actually on the bed) for taking their themes from Myasishchev and Sukhoi ...
                  First, forget about Sukhoi. His "innovative" T-4MS has already been hacked to death by the state commission ... And secondly enough, and firstly ...
                  What remains is Myasishchev ... With all my respect for this truly brilliant designer, he had one bad feature - he did little to do "earthly things" and did not devote enough energy to improve and modernize his machines. 3M I already mentioned ...
                  But the "sinister" Tupolev "finished" his products. Therefore, they still fly. And you do not think about this in the Council of Ministers? .. They knew very well. Therefore, Myasishchev's work was transferred to the Tupolev Design Bureau (which by this time was already headed by Tupolev Jr.) ...
                  That's the whole story, dear colleague on the site ... wink
                  So stop stupid and in vain disturbing the dust of Grandfather ...
                  1. avt
                    avt 12 August 2014 15: 40
                    0
                    Quote: Chicot 1
                    And then what? .. By this you deny that "weaving" served as the basis for the T-4MS

                    Did you read anything besides Wikipedia ?? Weaving dry isn’t a strategist at all and was worked out as a replacement for the Tu22, which was never a strategist either, and Grandfather cheated that he would not lose the factory and made a completely new Tu-22m under modernization of the 22nd, which also generally not a strategist, and Myasischev did not participate in this dispute.
                    Quote: Chicot 1
                    By this you deny that "weaving" served as the basis for the T-4MS

                    This nonsense will leave the head itself when you deign to at least look at the pictures that you already wrote about.
                    Quote: Chicot 1
                    Only Sukhoi Design Bureau lost this competition at the stage of consideration of projects ...

                    foolWhat a historic discovery! But the late Dementyev did not know this at the meeting and announced that Sukhoi’s project had won, but due to the workload and the fact that the design bureaus didn’t do heavy aircraft, they gave the topic to Tupolev’s design bureau, the drawings were already taken away from Myasishchev in working order.
                    Quote: Chicot 1
                    First, forget about Sukhoi. His "innovative" T-4MS has already been hacked to death by the state commission ... And secondly enough, and firstly ...

                    Keep it with you, but if you want to understand the topic, the participants in those events left quite enough memories for themselves. Start with Somaylovich, and there you will dig others.
                    1. Chicot 1
                      Chicot 1 12 August 2014 17: 06
                      0
                      Quote: avt
                      Did you read anything besides Wikipedia ?? Weaving dry isn’t a strategist at all and was worked out as a replacement for the Tu22, which was never a strategist either, and Grandfather cheated that he would not lose the factory and made a completely new Tu-22m under modernization of the 22nd, which also generally not a strategist, and Myasishchev did not participate in this dispute

                      M-ya ... Muffled ... Does the T-4 - T-4M - T-4MS line say anything to you? .. It seems that no ...
                      And what does Myasishchev and Wikipedia have to do with it? .. Or do you naively believe that I read about it that he practically did not fine-tune serial cars in favor of new projects? ..
                      Quote: avt
                      This nonsense will go away from the head itself when you deign to at least look at the pictures that you already wrote about

                      You need not look at the pictures, but analyze the facts ... But I see that it is difficult for you to understand. Pictures are more important for you ...
                      Quote: avt
                      But the late Dementyev did not know this at the meeting and announced that the Sukhoi project had won, but due to the workload and the fact that the design bureau did not make heavy planes, the topic was given to Tupolev Design Bureau, the drawings were already taken away from Myasishchev in working order

                      And he could not know the results attending the meeting. I repeat once again - the meeting of the Council of Ministers was in 1967, and the analysis by the State Commission of the projects of the Myasishchev Design Bureau and the Sukhoi Design Bureau was in 1972, i.e. in five years...
                      So there is nothing surprising in this ...
                      Quote: avt
                      Keep it with you, but if you want to understand the topic, the participants in those events left quite enough memories for themselves. Start with Somaylovich, and there you will dig others

                      When I start digging up the topic "who is right and who is even more to the right," I compare the facts ... And I advise you to do this ...
                      And with regards to Samoilovich ... I often noticed that they lie in memoirs. Therefore, I repeat again - I trust only the facts ...
                      And I presented you a brief history of interweaving with the projects of a promising strategist ... Alas, I can’t leave it only with me. These are well-known facts. Without sensations and yellowness. But you probably don’t like it ...
                      1. avt
                        avt 12 August 2014 17: 56
                        0
                        Quote: Chicot 1
                        M-ya ... Muffled ... Does the T-4 - T-4M - T-4MS line say anything to you? .. It seems that no ...

                        Did you have to stand at the drawing board in the KB ?? Then there would be stupid questions about the KBshny numbering of projects, as a rule, especially at the stage of completion, which has nothing to do with real metal in terms of ginealogy. Especially when the secretaries encrypt. As a reference, you can use Dedov's Tu22 {blind in NATO}, Tu 22M {which according to their Backfire}. Well, if this is a continuation of one machine ... ... then medicine is powerless here.request ibahjdfnm yfxbyf.nu
                        Quote: Chicot 1
                        So there is nothing surprising in this ...

                        The only surprising thing is that you don’t read the meaning of what has been written, which breaks your “slim” version, as well as the burden of protecting the image of Grandfather voluntarily taken upon yourself. Leave it, he has already proved everything to everyone as an Engineer from God, but he was a normal person with his quirks and ambitions, which sometimes hurt the business, but this sometimes became obvious over the years. The mother was by the way a hooligan.
                        Quote: Chicot 1
                        , I compare the facts ...

                        Yeah ! laughing Especially this one -
                        Quote: Chicot 1
                        - Myasishchev, for all his genius, was completely not involved in the refinement and improvement of his machines, but immediately took up the next project ... A striking example is his 3M ...

                        fool If we had just bothered to familiarize ourselves with his life as an engineer and designer, we would have made sure that he ALWAYS brought up. And the plazo stereotyped method with the transfer to the metric system of the production of Li-2 and Pe-2 after the death of Petlyakov, stepping on the throat of his own song - his development of a bomber was already in the metal, since the war, and his own "Dandy" - the last serial strategist of his KB So you don't need to attribute to him what distinguished the Genius-Bartini, who was really impulsive, nevertheless an ardent Italian - a Hungarian brought up in Italy, but surprisingly beautifully blended in Russia and, as he said, all the cells were renewed and he is now Russian, his legacy and the work has not yet been fully appreciated! The king publicly, in public called himself his disciple! And even then Yermolaev did Er-2 from "Steel" under his own name because there was a term for Bartini.
                        Quote: Chicot 1
                        And I presented you a brief history of interweaving with the projects of a promising strategist ..

                        Yeah, only with life does it have nothing to do. I might have swallowed this yellowness sensational, but despite the fact that I had a chance to work in another ministry - Afanasyev, however, the circle of acquaintances of the MAI was from Sukhovites, who were with eyewitnesses of those events, including Samoilovich, who had not yet left for MIG, so it’s quite difficult for me to get nonsense, with which aplomb it would not be transmitted.
                      2. Chicot 1
                        Chicot 1 12 August 2014 18: 44
                        0
                        Quote: avt
                        Did you have to stand at the drawing board in the KB ?? Then there would be stupid questions about the KBshny numbering of projects, as a rule, especially at the stage of completion, which has nothing to do with real metal in terms of ginealogy. Especially when the secretaries encrypt. As a reference, you can use Dedov's Tu22 {blind in NATO}, Tu 22M {which according to their Backfire}. Well, and even if this is a continuation of one machine ... then medicine is powerless here

                        No. The kulmans did not have to stand. But in the archives I had to sit ...
                        And again, where does the Tu-22 and Tu-22M? .. Have I voiced the idea somewhere that the 22M is a modification of 22? ..
                        It was about the product of Sukhoi ... Or did he begin to sculpt his strategist from scratch, without taking T-4 as its basis? ..
                        And if you decide next time to write about medicine, then remember that the test word is "medic" ...
                        Quote: avt
                        If you just bothered to get acquainted with the life path of him as an engineer and designer

                        Has bothered. Moreover, a very, very long time ago. There was such a book, and it was called "Constructor" ...
                        Did I speak somewhere about Li-2? .. Or about Pe-2? .. I mentioned 3M. And the work on its refinement was practically not carried out by Myasishchev's design bureau due to the fact that it was loaded with work on the M-50, and later on the M-52. At the same time, the Tupolev design bureau (that's the bastard!) "Finished" and brought to mind the Tu-16 and Tu-95 ... As a result, the Tu-95 is still in service (albeit not from a good life), and 3M flew off back in the 1980s ...
                        It is strange that your friends from MAI and KB did not tell about this ...
                        Myasischev was really a brilliant designer. This cannot be taken away from him. So, the passage about Bartini was completely redundant ...
                        Quote: avt
                        so it’s quite difficult for me to get nonsense, with which aplomb it would not be transmitted

                        And what really happened according to yours (or according to what you were told)? .. And in what time frame did this happen? .. I’m in attention ...
        2. Iline
          Iline 12 August 2014 20: 45
          0
          The State Commission adopted it when, when investigating the disaster of Yura Deineka in 2003, it was surprised to find out that the aircraft was not in service and it was not at all clear what it was doing in YES. Even military trials, he did not officially pass. It was necessary to look at the clowning that had begun.
          Yes! And less believe the lucid information. The plane was unsuccessful and very expensive to maintain. Instead of honestly admitting this, taking it out of service and putting money into its maintenance (just reopening engines for it cost a lot of money) to design a new aircraft, we would already ride on the new PAK YES.
      5. cat hippopotamus
        cat hippopotamus 12 August 2014 15: 01
        0
        This glider was ahead of time and, as always, the bureaucrats did not understand the breakthrough of scientific thought and hacked into the bud. It’s like giving a computer to a non-Oriental and he will crack nuts for them.
  5. demel2
    demel2 12 August 2014 06: 56
    0
    It would be very good, I would like to see it in the air. But for now, basically all are promising.
    1. Very old
      Very old 12 August 2014 07: 05
      +4
      And also, I would like to see-: what is laid in it
      "Bear", like the 160th, can still be upgraded
      And we wish the PAK: rather get on the wing
      1. Tersky
        Tersky 12 August 2014 07: 23
        +2
        Quote: Very old
        And I would also like to see-: that the "Bear" is put into it

        Answer in the news:
        It was previously reported that the new subsonic strategic bomber will solve the tasks that three types of aircraft are currently performing: Tu-22, Tu-160 and Tu-95MS.
        Valentine, hi
  6. VICTOR-61
    VICTOR-61 12 August 2014 06: 56
    +1
    Here is a great new bomber in 6 years, good news
  7. Grenz
    Grenz 12 August 2014 06: 58
    0
    Will our airy oldies wait for their granddaughter? After all, they fly very actively.
    Hurry up. Well, if it took into account our and world experience in the construction of these devices.
    Is there something more detailed from the open?
    In appearance, so far only questions.
    1. Chertkov Oleg
      Chertkov Oleg 12 August 2014 07: 17
      +1
      Well, if it took into account our and world experience in the construction of these devices.

      Aha, our designers only know how to sort out seeds. Na.kh.ren we need to copy the "world" experience, this is the lot of the Chinese. The design thought and school in Russia are unique and have always been the first.
  8. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 12 August 2014 06: 58
    +2
    Just not to the detriment of our Long-Range Aviation. The old "strategists" have worked well. and recently, both the United States and NATO twitched when the number of combat missions of strategic aviation of the Russian Federation increased and our aircraft appeared where they had not been expected for a long time.
    Hence the nervousness, if not to say that hysteria is with NATO and the United States Navy separately.
  9. andruha70
    andruha70 12 August 2014 06: 59
    +7
    I congratulate all those who served and serve in the Air Force on the holiday !!! soldier and even in the morning - but I’ll pump it up - they stop drinks for all, for us !!!
  10. Zomanus
    Zomanus 12 August 2014 06: 59
    +3
    We'll see. How many history of mega-projects we had brought to prototypes, which were then closed. In fact, all this is being solved now, on the battlefields in New Russia.
    1. Igor39
      Igor39 12 August 2014 07: 07
      0
      I read about "weaving", looked, it was a miracle car!
  11. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 12 August 2014 07: 05
    +2
    Interesting aerodynamics. Bearing body. Continuation of the ideology of drying. But fuel can be hidden a lot, and weapons are hidden. Such a flying launch pad. For precision weapons. It is clear why subsonic. Modern air defense will reach at any speed. So, you need to not see!
  12. Loner_53
    Loner_53 12 August 2014 07: 09
    0
    Hoooooroshy such a plane, rather him the way to the sky! smile
    usa must be destroyed am
  13. RusDV
    RusDV 12 August 2014 07: 15
    +3
    It is planned that the new bomber will have high combat power and the ability to overcome modern air defense.
    Damn, they showed candy from a distance, they said we'll give it a try in five years .... It's a shame, right ?!
    Okay, the more prospects, the better ... You need to make a special bottle of wine, put it in the cellar and get it at the right time .... smile
    1. Denka
      Denka 12 August 2014 07: 21
      +2
      Damn, they showed candy from a distance, they said we'll give it a try in five years .... It's a shame, right ?!
      Okay, the more prospects, the better ... You need to make a bottle of wine on purpose, put it in the cellar and get it at the right time .... This is what the true aesthetic is for what you should strain and strive for the best! Much to the article you noticed!
  14. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 12 August 2014 07: 19
    +1
    In the years of the liberals' dominance, no one dealt with the topic of long-range strategic aviation (and indeed, like many projects in the field of state defense) ... Design bureaus and factories were put on the brink of survival ...
    Now, with the support of the Russian leadership, new types of weapons are being developed at an accelerated pace ... in the final analysis, this is the basis for increasing the defense capability of the State and the independence of the country and its citizens ...
  15. andruha70
    andruha70 12 August 2014 07: 21
    +1
    today, at 10:30 Moscow time, on Rossiya24 channel - an interview with the Air Force commander in chief wink listen, what will he say?
  16. father nikon
    father nikon 12 August 2014 07: 22
    0
    Fine! I just don’t understand why in a promising complex the bet is on subsonic speeds request
  17. Balamyt
    Balamyt 12 August 2014 07: 24
    +1
    The armor is strong ......
    If this is voiced, then you only have to guess what we will not know about!
    The defense industry is alive, and there are plenty of talents in Russia!
  18. KIRON
    KIRON 12 August 2014 07: 25
    +1
    It’s fast enough. But it’s unlikely that it will be like in the picture. This collage has been going around all the magazines for five years already. Variable geometry is not needed for the "subwoofer".
  19. RusDV
    RusDV 12 August 2014 07: 27
    0
    Quote: father Nikon
    Fine! I just don’t understand why in a promising complex the bet is on subsonic speeds request

    Judging by the external aerodynamics and the variable sweep of the wing embedded in the construct, the speed can be much higher .... Something stirs up the Russians .... Something like this will report back to the leadership of the spies who are from the exhibition .... smile
  20. shitovmg
    shitovmg 12 August 2014 07: 28
    +1
    Yes, terms are shortened. This is not casual, but happy!
    1. RusDV
      RusDV 12 August 2014 07: 34
      0
      Quote: shitovmg
      Yes, terms are shortened. This is not casual, but happy!

      When a fox visits a chicken coop, the speeds in it increase significantly. They say Rogozin is increasingly in the design bureau and contracting enterprises .... laughing No offense, of course, to our engineers, designers and workers ... This is a literary allegory ... smile
  21. father nikon
    father nikon 12 August 2014 07: 30
    0
    Quote: RusDV
    Something like this will report to the leadership of the spies who returned from the exhibition ....

    God forbid if so!
  22. sgr291158
    sgr291158 12 August 2014 07: 32
    0
    It turned out a beautiful bird, but a fighting dope will probably be enough too.
  23. rassom
    rassom 12 August 2014 07: 37
    0
    Great news for Russian Air Force Day! WITH A HOLIDAY FOR ALL PARTICIPANTS! PURE SKY!
  24. Serebryakov. 75
    Serebryakov. 75 12 August 2014 07: 46
    +2
    We congratulate the flyers
    You have a full resource!
    Congratulations to the navigators,
    So as not to stray from the course!

    Be happy, radio operator,
    Be healthy, flight engineer
    We’ll drink the Air Force for the holiday
    Raise the alcohol in a glass! drinks
  25. SAHALIN
    SAHALIN 12 August 2014 07: 47
    0
    Quote: Stalevar
    The day begins with good news! If ours set a goal, they will certainly do it. If only financing was regular.

    The main thing is to carefully monitor the financing and cut off the hands of those who want to weld on this project, and there will be a new plane, for the evil and horror of the mattresses soldier
  26. Kvaigon
    Kvaigon 12 August 2014 07: 52
    0
    I always knew that prominent people worked and work in Sukhoi Design Bureau!
  27. qwert
    qwert 12 August 2014 07: 57
    +1
    . Also drew attention to this. In the photo, a slightly redesigned (protruding lamp) drawing of the T-4MS aircraft. In addition, for a subsonic aircraft, variable wing geometry is an unnecessary luxury and unreasonable complication of the design. Further. If the Tu-160 and Tu-22M are multi-mode machines, then PAKDA is a single-mode aircraft. Accordingly, the flexibility of application and the survival rate of the machine is lower. He has one defense-stealth technology. But sooner or later there will be opposition against every stealth. So, targeting the B-2 is a mistake. We always created the best planes going our own way.
    One of the reasons for creating a subsonic aircraft, and most likely the main reason, is that it will be much cheaper in design and production. But you need to save on yachts and Chelsea, and not on defense. If what they write about the PAKDA project is true, then it frustrates me
  28. Ivan Tarasov
    Ivan Tarasov 12 August 2014 08: 01
    -1
    It was previously reported that the new subsonic strategic bomber will solve the tasks that three types of aircraft are currently performing: Tu-22, Tu-160 and Tu-95MS.

    A subsonic airplane can only replace a subsonic airplane.
    We need a plane with a supersonic cruising mode, such a plane is more difficult to intercept by fighters, it has less time to fly.
  29. pvv113
    pvv113 12 August 2014 08: 01
    +4
    All with the Day of the Russian Air Force! Good news for the holiday. It's time to pay attention to long-range aviation. Good luck to the developers! good
  30. Dejavu
    Dejavu 12 August 2014 08: 06
    0
    Soviet scientific fuse for another 50 years is enough. God help you! In the meantime, we are waiting for Armata on Red Square on May 9 :)
  31. regul10108
    regul10108 12 August 2014 08: 21
    0
    However, seriously took up the defense! Now the main thing is to eradicate the remains of the fifth column from the Ministry of Defense, military-industrial complex and General Staff! And everything will go the way! good
  32. frcdkfl047
    frcdkfl047 12 August 2014 08: 42
    0
    Let's! Do it faster!
  33. Dinko
    Dinko 12 August 2014 08: 45
    0
    God grant that the dough was enough!
  34. 3vs
    3vs 12 August 2014 08: 59
    0
    This is a hat !!! fellow
  35. Wedmak
    Wedmak 12 August 2014 09: 07
    0
    It is planned that the new bomber will have high combat power and the ability to overcome modern air defense.

    Again for the old ... Well, high combat power - this implies a high load of strike weapons, good electronics and electronic warfare. Clear. But how will a subsonic vehicle overcome modern air defense? What nonsense is this?
    1. Very old
      Very old 12 August 2014 20: 50
      0
      But I thought about the same ... HOW?
      If the 160 does not always leave NATO fighters, the Norwegians often accompany it "around the corner"
  36. goose
    goose 12 August 2014 09: 58
    +1
    Quote: juborg
    The only question is why the supersonic "Harley" Tu-160 will be replaced by the subsonic PAK DA? Are subsonic engines better than supersonic ones? Or is the new strategic bomb carrier too heavy? In general, questions, one question. The concept of the missile carrier is incomprehensible. And judging by the layout, the missile and bomb load will not be increased. Of course I wanted to see something like that, imperceptible, with supersonic, relatively maneuverable, with entry into the stratosphere, with a bomb rack twice as large as the current ones.

    Subsonic speed allows for improved aerodynamic efficiency at cruising speed, which will increase payload and reduce fuel consumption. Also, the requirements for strength and coating materials will decrease, and a more advantageous layout will be possible, which will make the aircraft easier. In contrast to the abstract benefits of the "extra" 500 km / h, given that the range of gliding bombs is already under 100 km, and the main ammunition, whatever one may say, is cruise missiles. He flew up to the launch line - he released the BC, and to cut another 2000 km to the air defense zone.
  37. Said
    Said 12 August 2014 10: 52
    +1
    Quote: Wedmak
    It is planned that the new bomber will have high combat power and the ability to overcome modern air defense.

    Again for the old ... Well, high combat power - this implies a high load of strike weapons, good electronics and electronic warfare. Clear. But how will a subsonic vehicle overcome modern air defense? What nonsense is this?



    Why should she overcome missile defense? Let missiles with nuclear weapons do this, they can fly even up to 6 thousand km after being released from an airplane. The trick is that around the perimeter, in neutral waters from the country of the possible aggressor, from different directions, it was possible to deliver a massive strike with missiles from nuclear weapons from a distance of 2 thousand km and calmly return to the base. He does not need supersonic to overcome missile defense, over sound made it possible to get away from interceptors after a shot + fly faster to a shot, the Tu-160 is not intended to break through a missile defense. Therefore, in the United States, YES are still 50 years old ...
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 12 August 2014 14: 53
      0
      I agree, and said that before ..
      Tu-160 is not intended for a breakthrough missile defense

      I did not talk about missile defense, I talked about air defense.
      If we take into account that the air defense system includes fighters as well, then a breakthrough was needed. We read the same wiki:
      the plane was supposed to approach the target at cruising subsonic speed, and to overcome enemy air defense in supersonic altitude mode or at cruising speed near the ground;

      At that time there were no high-altitude missiles, and not every fighter could get a carcass. In addition, the Tu-160 is also a part-time bomber. After the conversion, he could carry free-falling bombs / mines / cartridges up to 40 tons. Currently, it is the only carrier of the Kyrgyz Republic.
      Therefore, in the United States, YES are still 50 years old ...

      Except for the relatively new B-1B and B-2.
  38. qwert
    qwert 12 August 2014 14: 53
    +1
    Not a single stealth can replace a low-speed breakthrough. No stealth from all locators. The coating works at a specific wavelength. We have a UHF in the decimeter range. Stealth under them. Horizontal in centimeter, and they see stealth aircraft. Millimeter radars also see. You can not rely on stealth. Now a new generation of locators are working simultaneously on decimeter and meter waves. Will be a little work in three ranges. And then all these subsonic invisibles will be just toys with the characteristics of Tu-95 and B-52 and at a price two orders of magnitude higher.
    And by the way, during the exercises, the MiG-31 could not work out missiles on the Tu-95MS. Because the Tu-95MS has good electronic warfare equipment. As you can see the result can be achieved without doggy and dubious stealth technologies. Stealth to the detriment of all other characteristics of the aircraft is the American way. His fallacy is visible on F-35, why climb into a rut left by America if it leads to a dead end ?????
    And by the way, one of the options for PACDA that was considered is the maximum use as a basis of a passenger aircraft worked out in production. Do you still think that the bombed Superjet or Tu-214 with stealth coating is a good option for a bomber?
  39. qwert
    qwert 12 August 2014 15: 02
    +1
    "According to some reports, there are at least ten different options for the layout of the aircraft of the future. The variant of the subsonic bomber according to the" flying wing "scheme, which is based on developments on the topic of the Tu-202 long-range anti-submarine aircraft, is recognized as the most promising. The bomber has one bomb compartment, where a multi-position ejection launcher for six X-101 or X-555 cruise missiles with a total weight of 16 tons should be located. The range of the bomber must be at least 7 thousand km. The aircraft must hit targets at a distance of up to 13,5 (????) ( This type of missile range should be 7000 km. I can't believe it. Not advisable. Excessive) thousands of kilometers, taking into account the missile range.
  40. cat hippopotamus
    cat hippopotamus 12 August 2014 15: 06
    0
    Well, why is there such a trend in Russia, even the father and son of the Cherepanovs were the first to invent the steam engine, Catherine did not find the proper application in this and did not give a grand for production. Then we bought English steam locomotives. So here, of course, we are not completely destroying the good, but because of the short-sightedness of officials, we would have made this breakthrough in the 70s.
  41. Romin
    Romin 12 August 2014 22: 13
    0
    It is very strange that we in aviation do not primarily develop those projects in which we have achieved more than others. Bomb carriers with stealth technologies should be, but the latest trends, however, as always, are behind the speed of decision making)