Military Review

Russia removed the second pseudo fleet from the Black Sea

177
Russia removed the second pseudo fleet from the Black Sea



A soldier of the Ukrainian Navy folded the state flag of the country after descending during the ceremony of raising the Russian flag on the territory of the Academy of Naval Forces. P. S. Nakhimov in Sevastopol. Photo: Mikhail Voskresensky / RIA News

The geopolitical situation in the Black Sea after the annexation of the Crimea will barely change, but the Russian Federation still cannot do without a powerful military base in Novorossiysk

Under the Russian control in the Crimea about 200 military units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine passed. However, the overwhelming majority of them are logistical, auxiliary and providing.

What remains of the Ukrainian army in the Crimea

There were no combat units on the peninsula at all. But there was formally quite a strong tactical group "Crimea" of the Air Command "South" of the Air Force and Air Defense of Ukraine. This is the 204th tactical brigade aviation (Belbek; 45 MiG-29 fighters, 4 training L-39s), 50th (Feodosiya, Alushta; 2 S-300PS air defense divisions), 55th (Evpatoria; 3 Buk-M1 air defense divisions), 174- th (Sevastopol; 2 divisions S-300PS) anti-aircraft missile regiments. At the same time, as it turned out, in the 204th brigade, at least just five out of 49 planes — four MiG-29s and one L-39 — could at least just take off the ground. Very deplorable is the state of anti-aircraft missile technology. All of it was produced back in Soviet times, while being served, to put it mildly, not in the best way.

Russia almost entirely went to the Ukrainian Navy. This is a submarine of 641 Ave. (Zaporizhia), 2 small anti-submarine ship (IPC) of 1124 Ave. (Lutsk and Ternopil) and 1 1124P (Vinnitsa) patrol ship, 1 of IPC 12412 Ave. (Khmelnitsky "), 2 missile boats (1 Ave. 12411T (" Pridneprovye ")), 1 Ave. 206MR (" Priluki ")), 3 minesweeper (2 Ave. 266М (" Chernigov "and" Cherkasy "), 1 Ave. 1258М (Chernigov and Cherkasy)), 2 Ave 1М (" Chernigov "and" Cherkassy "), 775 Ave 1М (" Chernigov "and" Cherkassy "), 773 Ave. XNUMXМ (" Chernigov "and" Cherkassy "), XNUMX Ave. XNUMXМ (Chernigov and Cherkasy)), XNUMX Ave XNUMXМ (" Chernigov "and" Cherkasy "), XNUMX X. XNUMX (XNUMX Ave. "Genichesk")), XNUMX landing craft (XNUMX Ave. XNUMX ("Konstantin Olshansky"), XNUMX Ave. XNUMX ("Kirovograd")).

Naval aviation was in its composition 5 anti-amphibious aircraft Be-12 (even 3 in storage), 7 transport aircraft (1 An-2, 2 An-26, 4 An-72), 8 anti-submarine helicopters (5 Ka-27PL, 3 Mi-14PL), 3 Ka-3 multipurpose helicopter (still 29 in storage), 1 rescue helicopter (2 Ka-1PS, 27 Mi-1PS). A few units of them may have managed to fly to Ukraine.

The coastal forces included two battalions of marines, a mechanized coastal defense brigade and a division of coastal anti-ship missiles (ASM).

The 1 Battalion of the Marine Corps (Feodosia) and the 501 Battalion of the Marine Corps (Kerch) were armed with the 40 BTR-80, 8 mortar 2X12, 8 PTRK, 8 PZRK Tactical Weapons of the Mortars

The 36th mechanized brigade (Perevalnoye) was armed with 39 tanks T-64BV, 75 BMP-2, 50 BTR-70 and BTR-80, 12 self-propelled guns 2S1, 18 towed guns D-30 and 2A36, 24 mortars 2S12, 18 MLRS BM-21.

The 25 Division of Coastal Defense was armed with 2 launchers of the Rubezh anti-ship missile system (according to the 2 RCC P-15).

Looking closely at the trophies, the Russian command, apparently, fell into despondency. Virtually all of the above is scrap metal, which we ourselves have an order of magnitude more. At the same time, new equipment is now coming into service in relatively acceptable quantities. Therefore, almost nothing of the Ukrainian trophies we just do not need. Of all the ground and aviation technology, only the BTR-80 and Igla MANPADS can be of relative value. Most likely, Russia will keep the equipment of all three anti-aircraft missile regiments. Everything else may well be returned to Ukraine (including non-flying fighters) in order to shift to her the problem of disposing of all these “treasures”, which are now almost impossible to even sell. Moreover, nothing but problems will create for us warehouses of Ukrainian ammunition, we have enough of our own.

With regard to the naval composition of the Navy, it is theoretically possible to leave in service the corvettes "Lutsk" and "Ternopil", minesweepers and landing ships. However, even without this, you can do without the slightest tension. The submarine, the other two corvettes (IPC) and rocket boats are not suitable for anything other than scrap metal. In this regard, it should be recalled that the Black Sea Fleet (BSF) of Russia, to a large extent, is also a collection of scrap metal. The average age of his ships is significantly higher than in the Russian Navy as a whole. Only on the Black Sea Fleet there are still ships in the ranks (guard and two amphibious assault ships), which became operational in the 1960s. Accordingly, there is no point in “strengthening” your scrap metal with Ukrainian.
Why do we need a naval base in Novorossiysk

From the point of view of basing, nothing has changed for the Black Sea Fleet, just now there is no need to pay Ukraine for Sevastopol and at the same time expect what else Kiev will present to us. Naturally, construction plans fleet in no way will change in any direction, for this there is no reason. After a trip to Crimea, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu again drove into Novorossiysk and once again demanded to speed up the construction of a new naval base here. Which is quite natural: for Russia, Crimea is an island, we need a base on the mainland, at least to supply the same Crimea.


Ships of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation at the naval base. Photo: Alexey Pavlishak / ITAR-TASS


In general, recently Novorossiysk, even in its current “unfinished” form, plays a crucial role in the geopolitics of Moscow. For more than a year, the Novorossiysk-Tartus line has been operating, along which almost all of our large landing ships (BDK) carry Assad weapon and ammunition (for some time even the BDK with the Pacific Fleet worked on this line). From Novorossiysk, “polite people” arrived in Crimea. Therefore, in the present conditions, the value of Novorossiysk as a rear base is not something that does not decrease, but increases significantly.
Ukrainian fleet is not and will not be

The Ukrainian Navy currently has two combat units left: the frigate of the 1135 Ave. Getman Sagaidachny and the patrol boat of the 1400 Ave. Skadovsk, armed only with machine guns. Thus, the Ukrainian fleet can be considered ceased to exist. However, even if Russia returns to Ukraine all the ships in the Crimea, this will practically change nothing. And before the beginning of the current events, the real combat potential of the Ukrainian Navy was zero. The position of the Ukrainian fleet worsened only in the sense that it lost a convenient base and part of the ship repair and shipbuilding facilities.

Accordingly, now Ukraine has no place to deploy a fleet. However, this is not a problem, because there is nothing to post anyway. For the Ukrainian Navy at the moment only one ship is being built in Nikolaev - the corvette of the 58250 ave. It was laid in May 2011 of the year and has not even been launched yet. Moreover, it has not yet been determined even by what it will be armed. The current economic situation in the country certainly does not contribute to the acceleration of construction. With the most favorable course of events, this ship can be put into operation in 2017 — 2018. Accordingly, if you rely only on your own strength, the Ukrainian fleet cannot be recreated even theoretically and even in a remote perspective.

The only chance to re-create the Ukrainian Navy is if someone gives Kiev a number of ready-made ships and boats (namely, it’s because the country doesn’t have enough money to buy even heavily-used units and there’s no money for a long time). Theoretically this is possible. NATO countries have a wide assortment of old frigates that are being decommissioned in the coming years: the American type Oliver Perry (now the US has 31 such a frigate, another 2 from Poland and 6 from Spain), the French type D'Estin D'Or ”(9 units), German type“ Bremen ”(8 units), Italian type“ Maestral ”(8 units), Spanish type“ Descubiert ”(4 units). The Germans can also share rocket boats of the "Cheetah" type (8 units), a number of European countries can push several old minesweepers to Ukraine. There are even free submarines - German pr. 206 (5 units), Italian type “Sauro” (7 units), Spanish type “Galerna” (3 units).

Whether at least something from this will be presented to Kiev in fact is extremely difficult to say now. Just remember the famous joke: "Do you want to destroy the underdeveloped country - give her a cruiser."
Four fleets instead of six

As for the other three Black Sea countries (Georgia, of course, is not taken into consideration), Bulgaria and Romania do not differ much from Ukraine in terms of the weakness of the Armed Forces in general and the Navy in particular. The economic situation with them is also not very remarkable. Ten years ago, joining NATO did not prevent further degradation of the Bulgarian and Romanian armies, and there was no rearmament of the new equipment. Change of situation is possible only with very significant external assistance. The question is who will provide it. If the Ukrainian situation is more or less stabilized, then it is safe to say that no one.

Ankara's geopolitical ambitions are extremely large, but the internal situation in the country at the moment does not at all contribute to their realization.

Thus, if in Ukraine there are no new big shocks, the geopolitical situation in the Black Sea will hardly change. Russia simply removed the pseudo fleet, the second in six years, from its basin (the first was Georgian). Now here, as in Soviet times, not six fleets, but four.
Author:
Originator:
http://rusplt.ru/policy/Ukrainskogo-flota-net-9025.html
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  1. waisson
    waisson April 3 2014 21: 49
    +40
    ------------- hi
    1. jjj
      jjj April 3 2014 22: 08
      +37
      And there was information that we will return to Odessa the entire ship’s composition, which previously belonged to an independent one. They would give it now, but the crews almost without exception crossed the Andreevsky flag. So there’s no one to overtake
      1. Tersky
        Tersky April 3 2014 22: 21
        +46
        Quote: jjj
        They would give it now, but the crews almost without exception crossed the Andreevsky flag. So there’s no one to overtake

        Like no one belay , maydanutym babayki in his hands and under a whoop- "Hto do not paddle that ....." laughing .
        1. S_mirnov
          S_mirnov April 3 2014 22: 31
          +11
          Quote: Tersky
          Like no one belay, maydanami babayki in hand and under the boo

          It is a sin to laugh at the wretched.
          And on the other hand, let's remember when Russia, for example, launched an extreme missile cruiser into the water? The Indian aircraft carrier Wikimarilla (former Admiral Gorshkov) does not count; it is still built in the USSR.
          1. typhoon7
            typhoon7 April 3 2014 23: 05
            +8
            I was very pleased with the news on one of the forums that the destroyer was built in Russia, and this is very good, this is the ocean fleet. Hopefully, in connection with the latest events, ships will be built faster. And on the Ukrainian ships really passed info about returning them back.
            1. storog.cccp
              storog.cccp April 4 2014 04: 18
              +6
              They will overheat during the ferry, because the crews will swing the "barges" shouting: "who does not jump?"
          2. Tersky
            Tersky April 3 2014 23: 05
            +46
            Quote: S_mirnov
            It is a sin to laugh at the wretched.

            It’s sinful to make yourself miserable ..
            Quote: S_mirnov
            And on the other hand, let's remember when Russia, for example, launched an extreme missile cruiser into the water?

            1998 TARK "Peter the Great". However, one should not forget the state of the Russian economy from the 2010s to 6, whether it was before the cruisers. That the Black Sea Fleet has just launched a frigate, "Ivana Grigorovich", 636 Project 25 submarines are also under construction (the first in the series "Novorossiysk" has already started mooring tests.) Not all at once, and not in one day, they were falling apart for XNUMX years ..
            1. jktu66
              jktu66 April 4 2014 00: 23
              +5
              the error with the date was launched in 1989, entered the fleet in 1998, the construction is still from Soviet times.
              1. Tersky
                Tersky April 4 2014 14: 26
                +2
                Quote: jktu66
                an error with the date was launched in 1989, entered the fleet in 1998,

                Do not mislead the people, after the descent of a ship of this class into the water it is still being built directly afloat, so they began to build it in the USSR during the Russian Federation.
            2. gogen3
              gogen3 April 4 2014 13: 32
              +1
              And now they are falling apart, only at least they started to create something.
          3. Lissyara
            Lissyara April 4 2014 00: 13
            +57
            By the way, Alexander is right!
            And no one wants to remember in which ass ... e stuck our aircraft in 90? I graduated back in the USSR.
            When the officers were not paid salaries for half a year, when rations disappeared, and there was nowhere to live.
            When in 94 to Chechnya from Mulino’s landfills, there was a technology prepared for decommissioning ...
            And with the same configuration, when the T-72 had no turret ...
            Continue?
            I am an Air Force officer. In the same 90s, we were forbidden to wear uniforms (for the "bearded hare" from the Caucasus - the Air Force is the main enemy, after the special forces) ...
            How is there no Kyrosin in an Eftenaya country? Fantasy! But the flight time of the pilots was 3-5 hours per year (for comparison - if the U.S. Navy deck carrier does not fly 180 hours per year - to plant other sheep cars in Texas with F-18).
            When, through the efforts of Humpback and "Alkash" (about the dead, either nothing, or ...), the Air Force, the Navy was turned into a heap of metal.
            When did the "clown" Ivanov begin to command the MO? Yes, Clown. *******, do not roll bags.
            Well, the goat Taburetkin. He knocked out the money, ******, to finally "bury" the army and navy.
            I came under its contraction, but when Kozhugetychi returned to shoulder straps. I agree that Kozhugetych is also not an angel (and who is without sin?), His house outside the city costs 273 years of service with the salary of the head of the Ministry of Emergency Situations, but actually to the point of this lamp.
            The only person who has scammed the government of the ruling and the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation with cancer is really becoming like the ARMED FORCES!
            1. Lissyara
              Lissyara April 4 2014 00: 54
              +10
              By the way, I forgot to add. At the moment, the number of units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs exceeds the Armed Forces by 1,73 times (including police and military units).
              So sideways it turns out that the Armed Forces with all the cruisers, submarines, planes, tanks, guns and what else we have from the materiel, a trifle, compared to the "tough" guys in the police uniform. Simply put, for the entire population of Russia - every one "policeman" for 12,8 people of the country's population.
              1. Sergei75
                Sergei75 April 4 2014 00: 58
                +10
                I support! A priori, the Ministry of Internal Affairs is needed to fight internal enemies, where are there so many of them from? And where are THEM so much? There is reason for reflection, although the Army is still popular, and the Ministry of Internal Affairs is already contracted.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Lissyara
                  Lissyara April 4 2014 01: 08
                  +7
                  Namesake, add!
                  The Ministry of Emergency Situations also "surpassed" the sun ... How funny
                  1. raf
                    raf April 4 2014 06: 52
                    +12
                    Quote: LiSSyara
                    The Ministry of Emergency Situations also "surpassed" the sun ... How funny

                    This is really not funny! This is good! our Ministry of Emergencies, I think the most professional of all! And given the large number of natural disasters and technological disasters, as well as the vastness of our country, a strong Ministry of Emergencies is not only good, but absolutely necessary!
                    1. PPL
                      PPL April 4 2014 07: 52
                      +13
                      ... a strong MES is not just good, but vital

                      I fully support you. The Ministry of Emergency Situations is not in vain eating bread and may God grant them health, so that they would have enough strength to fight against natural disasters and human disorderlessness. yes
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. samoletil18
                        samoletil18 April 4 2014 09: 43
                        +7
                        Quote: PPZ
                        I fully support you. Ministry of Emergencies does not eat bread for nothing
                        In 1988-90 he served in the GO troops. Subordinate to the deputy commander of the district for civil defense. The backbone was composed of military engineers and chemists, i.e. trained in military universities. Sergeants and specialists from training schools of the Moscow Region. It meant full interaction with parts of the district. At the country level, the hierarchy within the MO, i.e. everything is well-established. Instant response to an emergency: the advancement of a mobile squad and the deployment of PPS, if necessary. And to get to the Army General, of course, faster having a separate structure. Although, I do not mind: a lot has been said about Serdyukov.
                  2. wizarden
                    wizarden April 4 2014 09: 11
                    +7
                    What kind of fantasies? Russian Armed Forces ~ 800 thousand, Ministry of Emergencies ~ 350 thousand
                  3. Anisim1977
                    Anisim1977 April 4 2014 10: 03
                    +5
                    And did you forget last year’s flood in the Far East, wise guy?
                    For the gifted, the last major war was essentially 1941-1945, and forest fires, floods, earthquakes, etc.
                    1. Lomikus
                      Lomikus April 4 2014 14: 09
                      +1
                      Ministry of Emergencies does not extinguish forest fires! And it didn’t put out, judging by 2010, it fought with them, for which they received medals!
                      It is much more effective to prevent emergencies than to rake them later, but this is difficult to roll back.
                      The reason for the emergencies Ministry, the incapacity of the authorities, especially the regional (IMHO), as soon as the authorities begin to work, the need to maintain a separate ministry of the Ministry of Emergencies will disappear.
                3. stroporez
                  stroporez April 4 2014 06: 25
                  +3
                  Quote: Sergei75
                  A priori, the Ministry of Internal Affairs is needed to fight internal enemies,
                  during the war, the Alekseevs, Novodvorskie, the echo of Moscow, etc. feel the scby more than hurt themselves --- the Ministry of Internal Affairs does not work .........
                  1. Lelek
                    Lelek April 4 2014 10: 11
                    +7
                    Why are you so miserable old women? There are many young and proud: Kasyanov, Nemtsov, Gudkov, Makarevich, Schuster, Guzman, Minkin, Navalny with Udaltsov and a dozen more geeks. negative
                4. sso-xnumx
                  sso-xnumx April 4 2014 09: 49
                  -1
                  For you and me!
                  1. sso-xnumx
                    sso-xnumx April 4 2014 20: 08
                    0
                    someone minus. I once caught a couple of broken ribs and a fingal from one VVshnik. At first he gave me a weight, and only then he began to find out why. When I realized that I was wrong, I didn’t even apologize. They are prepared to fight their own people (not only ours), they are ready to kill each other for the maroon one ...
                5. Anisim1977
                  Anisim1977 April 4 2014 10: 00
                  +8
                  The answer is simple - for example, to culturally remove 40000 drunken fans from a football match, you need a couple of thousand explosives, and to destroy 1 pilot and 1 plane. Any other questions?
                  1. cdrt
                    cdrt April 4 2014 23: 17
                    0
                    Quote: Anisim1977
                    The answer is simple - for example, to culturally remove 40000 drunken fans from a football match, you need a couple of thousand explosives, and to destroy 1 pilot and 1 plane. Any other questions?


                    It's five! laughing
              2. sasha.28blaga
                sasha.28blaga April 4 2014 06: 17
                +3
                And in terms of the ratio between the population and law enforcement, this is not enough.
              3. Danafxnumx
                Danafxnumx April 4 2014 10: 23
                +4
                Quote: LiSSyara
                So sideways it turns out that the Armed Forces with all the cruisers, submarines, planes, tanks, guns and what else we have from the materiel, a trifle, compared to the "tough" guys in the police uniform. Simply put, for the entire population of Russia - every one "policeman" for 12,8 people of the country's population.

                that's just the point in submarines, aircraft, etc.
                now we are on the path of replacing the materiel on which fewer people should serve and also serve less, simply because technical progress ...
                and it is precisely because of progress that the need for a large number of conscripts disappears ...
                well, no one seriously thinks that the next war will be like the Second World War with machine guns and infantry ... there will be infantry, of course, but very limited ...

                that is why the number is decreasing, and not because the country's leadership is so poor ...

                as for the Ministry of Internal Affairs, you forget that the main part of the Ministry of Internal Affairs is not the troops, these are police, PPS, etc., which in our HUGE country with 145 million people should ensure the rule of law and the disclosure of crimes ...
                for some reason everyone forgets that we do not live in Lithuania, that if in a small country on 3 neighboring villages need an 1 policeman, then we need 3, simply because the villages can be 40-50 km from each other, but also be considered neighboring ...
                1. matross
                  matross April 4 2014 11: 17
                  +4
                  Quote: DanaF1
                  the main part of the Ministry of Internal Affairs is not troops, they are police, PPS, etc., which in our HUGE country with the 145 millionth population should ensure the rule of law and the disclosure of crimes ...

                  That's right - the rule of law and disclosure. And now, in the police, a large half do not do either. Managers, staffers and analysts are solid! Due to the redistribution, it is possible to perform the main functions much easier with fewer personnel. People have served for 20 years, and they only saw a live criminal on TV, but they looked for flaws and demanding ridiculous numbers! The police, their mother!
                2. aviamed90
                  aviamed90 April 4 2014 14: 35
                  +2
                  Danafxnumx

                  "... and because of progress, the need for a large number of conscripts disappears ... well, no one seriously thinks that the next war will be like the Second World War with machine guns and infantry ... there will be infantry, of course, but very limited. .. "

                  On the contrary, this probability is not denied:

                  "16. Nuclear weapons will remain an important factor in preventing the outbreak of nuclear military conflicts and military conflicts using conventional weapons (large-scale war, regional war).

                  In the event of a military conflict with the use of conventional means of destruction (large-scale war, regional war) that threatens the very existence of the state, the possession of nuclear weapons can lead to the escalation of such a military conflict into a nuclear military conflict."

                  (Decree of the President of the Russian Federation of February 5, 2010 N 146 "On the Military Doctrine of the Russian Federation")
                3. cdrt
                  cdrt April 4 2014 23: 19
                  0
                  Quote: DanaF1
                  for some reason everyone forgets that we do not live in Lithuania, that if in a small country on 3 neighboring villages need an 1 policeman, then we need 3, simply because the villages can be 40-50 km from each other, but also be considered neighboring ...


                  Somewhere I saw statistics on the number of policemen per capita.
                  We have great higher than the average in the United States, although they also have considerable space.
                  1. stroporez
                    stroporez April 5 2014 06: 31
                    0
                    Quote: cdrt
                    We have great higher than the average in the United States, although they also have considerable space.
                    --- Duc in the United States at the policeman and more opportunities, and his hands are not tied .........
              4. Altor86
                Altor86 April 4 2014 11: 08
                +1
                I read in the subway an ad for recruitment to the police. A salary of $ 50 is, as I understand it, a sergeant. And a military sergeant (contractor) does not even dream of that kind of money. Yes, and most of the junior officers. Of course, with the exception of specials. units.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. matross
                  matross April 4 2014 12: 36
                  +2
                  Quote: Altor86
                  in the subway an ad for recruiting the police. Salary from 50 TR This is, as I understand it, the sergeant

                  In St. Petersburg, the sergeant receives no more than 30 thousand. I don’t know about other regions.
                3. kripto
                  kripto April 4 2014 19: 58
                  +2
                  Sorry, how old are you that you still believe in fairy tales. Judging by the presence of the metro in your city, I conclude that you live far from Siberia and the North, where there is no district coefficient. I hasten to reassure you that the sergeant in your city at best receives 25-30 thousand
              5. kripto
                kripto April 4 2014 19: 52
                +1
                Talking to the "cool" guys in the police uniform? So when you are pressed by some gopota in the alley (or something like that), be consistent in your contempt to the end and do not run to the nearest office with a statement. Despite all the spitting of your kind, no matter how strange it seems to you, we are also doing our job and it is not our fault that for one employee working on the ground, there are a dozen executives and managers who are included in the statistics you quoted. I have the honor ...
            2. mivmim
              mivmim April 4 2014 01: 42
              -3
              Put a minus. As Vysotsky once sang, "captain, you will never be a major." The topic is different here. Or did you not notice.))))))
              1. Lissyara
                Lissyara April 4 2014 01: 56
                +3
                Yes, minus even to death. This is simply the answer of "S_myrnov" and a statement of fact.
                But the major, "anonymous", I left "in history" for a long time ...
                At the same time, it is necessary to read the forum more closely, the topics overlap, and not according to the principle "I hear a ringing, but I do not know where it is."
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. Sergey S.
                    Sergey S. April 4 2014 03: 18
                    +6
                    Something is wrong with these numbers.
                    In Russia now, as in other bourgeois countries, armies are smaller than security structures.
                    The Ministry of Internal Affairs, the FSB, private offices .... with weapons capable of fighting only unarmed and terrorists.

                    But in our conditions, and these guys a useful thing is not rare.
                    But in Soviet times, former VVshniki were embarrassed to say where they served.
                    And if 550 thousand is true, then this is with border guards, investigators, policemen and traffic cops.
          4. jktu66
            jktu66 April 4 2014 00: 17
            +1
            I looked when they let the petya down into the water - 1989, like Kuzyu, but I thought that in the 90s ...
          5. afdjhbn67
            afdjhbn67 April 4 2014 04: 36
            -4
            why do we need missile cruisers - we will soon have 4 Misral ... crying
          6. mongoose
            mongoose April 4 2014 06: 52
            0
            and when the Soviet Union launched battleships?
          7. Anisim1977
            Anisim1977 April 4 2014 09: 55
            +1
            Feel free to look at the RLS, and read the article North - immediately the mood in the fleet will rise. hi
          8. Danafxnumx
            Danafxnumx April 4 2014 10: 16
            +2
            Quote: S_mirnov
            And on the other hand, let's remember when Russia, for example, launched an extreme missile cruiser into the water? The Indian aircraft carrier Wikimarilla (former Admiral Gorshkov) does not count; it is still built in the USSR.

            this...
            Are you already determined, missile cruiser or aircraft carrier?
            if the DBK, then "Peter the Great" was on duty in 1998, although it was laid down in Soviet times ...
          9. mashine
            mashine April 4 2014 17: 41
            +1
            RPKSN and APRK does not count? Yuri Dolgoruky, Alexander Nevsky, Severodvinsk, Vladimir Monomakh.
        2. Orc-xnumx
          Orc-xnumx April 4 2014 01: 19
          +3
          So they will drown! Ships turned into rusty rubbish! More of their Goebbels will ring the bell that they forced the "heroic prisoners"!
      2. ele1285
        ele1285 April 3 2014 22: 31
        +23
        Quote: jjj
        So there’s no one to overtake

        Maybe they will find someone, but imagine, a submarine "Zaporozhets" on oars to Odessa, you will go crazy
        1. Slavapom
          Slavapom April 3 2014 23: 16
          +14
          I agree!!! ships need to be distilled to Kiev, but it is better to go directly to Lviv, let the Binder students study the performance characteristics
          1. Konsmo
            Konsmo April 4 2014 00: 06
            +2
            On Khortitsa, it seems, the base was historical. drinks
            1. Berkut-UA
              Berkut-UA April 4 2014 02: 38
              +11
              Do you want to recall what exactly the Ukrainians in the 10th century came up with submarines ??? lol

              And when we talked about submarines in the steppes of Ukraine (or Zaporozhye) did we talk about that naval base on Khortytsya? laughing
            2. The comment was deleted.
          2. Lelek
            Lelek April 4 2014 10: 01
            +4
            And what, "a naval base on the Latoritsa River" - sounds loud. bully
          3. Danafxnumx
            Danafxnumx April 4 2014 10: 31
            +1
            Quote: Slavapom
            I agree!!! ships need to be distilled to Kiev, but it is better to go directly to Lviv, let the Binder students study the performance characteristics

            yeah, are you funny?
            and you will remember what they did with the "Bison" they got ...
        2. Konsmo
          Konsmo April 4 2014 00: 03
          +5
          Odessa beachgoers will be paid. They will drag him on a string instead of a "banana".
          For money, does it really matter what pull. bully
        3. Orc-xnumx
          Orc-xnumx April 4 2014 01: 24
          +1
          Quote: ele1285
          Quote: jjj
          So there’s no one to overtake

          Maybe they will find someone, but imagine, a submarine "Zaporozhets" on oars to Odessa, you will go crazy

          Quote: ele1285
          Quote: jjj
          So there’s no one to overtake

          Maybe they will find someone, but imagine, a submarine "Zaporozhets" on oars to Odessa, you will go crazy

          Quote: ele1285
          Quote: jjj
          So there’s no one to overtake

          Maybe they will find someone, but imagine, a submarine "Zaporozhets" on oars to Odessa, you will go crazy

          It seems something according to Zh.D. decided to send.
      3. vo.dum
        vo.dum April 3 2014 22: 46
        +27
        It is not necessary to litter Odessa .... this is not Ukrainian city ...- Russian .... and our future base of the Russian Navy wink
      4. Sergei75
        Sergei75 April 4 2014 00: 27
        +7
        From the above, I understood the following, maybe I'm wrong:
        - We need a Sevastopol base. but not very;
        - The Navy of the Black Sea Fleet of Ukraine is a metal that Ukraine could take to itself. Then the question begs, what the hell was blocking the passage with ships, because now they need to be raised, and so the ships would go to Odessa and there would be less headache. Of course, such a trick wouldn’t work with the land units, the weapon could have fallen for other purposes.

        In general, the current army of Ukraine reminds me of ours at the end of the 90s, young guys graduated from a military school and came to serve in part, optimism is above the roof, some with families, but they don’t have housing, the salary is one, I’m an officer ( a jacket) I passed an urgent, the first three months I just did not go to receive it, after the citizen it seemed like cigarettes, but in others it was the main job. What is the result - some families have collapsed, because for such a salary, a wife with a child, and still pay for housing, it is impossible who left, who bummed around, thinking what to steal.
        What am I doing - imagine the state of the Ukrainian military, who under difficult conditions continued to serve their homeland and who had to change their oath, the enemy would not want this.
        This is my opinion, but humanly I sympathize with them.
        1. Lissyara
          Lissyara April 4 2014 00: 31
          +3
          Namesake, didn’t you have enough tonight?
          "- We need the Sevastopol base. But not really."
          Actually, on the Black Sea this is the best option for deploying a fleet (why the Russian Navy is still spitting on Novoross. Yes, it is ideal as a trading port, but not a military one).
          1. Sergei75
            Sergei75 April 4 2014 00: 47
            +1
            I agree, got excited, from THIS article I made such a conclusion, I will be corrected right now ...
          2. aleks 62
            aleks 62 April 4 2014 10: 34
            +2
            Absolutely to the point .... Sevastopol is a complex of bays (like a multi-room apartment) with good depths, natural conditions allow entries and exits at any time of the year and in any weather, and in Novorossiysk there is one bay and such an unpleasant natural phenomenon as BORA is frequent ( strong northeastern wind) at which access to the sea and entry into the bay is very problematic ...
            1. cdrt
              cdrt April 4 2014 23: 23
              0
              Quote: aleks 62
              Absolutely to the point .... Sevastopol is a complex of bays (like a multi-room apartment) with good depths, natural conditions allow entries and exits at any time of the year and in any weather, and in Novorossiysk there is one bay and such an unpleasant natural phenomenon as BORA is frequent ( strong northeastern wind) at which access to the sea and entry into the bay is very problematic ...


              And it’s practically an island, and a bunch of airfields, incl. and former YES.
              And besides the bay and the shipyard, they are very good, and the climate is excellent. In short, the perfect place for YES and the Navy for the Mediterranean
        2. Sergei75
          Sergei75 April 4 2014 00: 51
          +1
          I repeat, the conclusion is made on the basis of THIS article, a question for discussion.
        3. Walk
          Walk April 4 2014 08: 19
          +4
          It was necessary to block the bay and seize the ships, so that the valiant maydanut sailors would not arrange any provocation, or stupidly from which they would not shoot. But when the situation stabilized, they decided to return the scrap.
          1. Danafxnumx
            Danafxnumx April 4 2014 10: 34
            +4
            Quote: Walk
            It was necessary to block the bay and seize the ships so that the valiant maydanut sailors would not arrange any provocation, or stupidly from which they would not shoot.

            and besides that, they didn’t steal even more Crimean children captive ...
    2. botur
      botur April 3 2014 22: 27
      +4
      A red shame?
      1. Ivan Petrovich
        Ivan Petrovich April 3 2014 22: 48
        +9
        Do you want to ruin a neighboring country? give him a cruiser
        1. The comment was deleted.
    3. Rusin Dima
      Rusin Dima April 4 2014 00: 06
      +1
      I would say a dirty guard
    4. Sergei75
      Sergei75 April 4 2014 00: 40
      +4
      Do not laugh at the boat, especially since people served on it, military people who in difficult times for the Ukrainian army did everything to make it exist, even such.
      Moreover, the army of Ukraine and the army of Russia used to be a single Army of the USSR.

      Mocking the conquered is unworthy of a winner.
      1. kotyara
        kotyara April 4 2014 01: 32
        +1
        Who defeated whom? like there was no war!
        1. papik09
          papik09 April 4 2014 07: 04
          +4
          That's the whole charm that there was no war, but the Russian army won fellow
  2. Semen Semyonitch
    Semen Semyonitch April 3 2014 21: 52
    +11
    American type Oliver Perry (now the United States has 31 such frigates, 2 more Poland and 6 Spain), French type D'Estien D'Or (9 units), German type Bremen (8 units), Italian type "Maestrale" (8 units), Spanish type "Descuberta" (4 units). The Germans can also share Cheetah-type missile boats (8 units), a number of European countries can push several old minesweepers to Ukraine. There are even free submarines - German pr. 206 (5 units), Italian type "Sauro" (7 units), Spanish type "Galerna" (3 units).

    And who will serve this good? Which is also not the first freshness ...
    1. vadson
      vadson April 3 2014 22: 12
      +3
      for some reason, they didn’t say about Oliver Peri that Turkey has them
      1. jktu66
        jktu66 April 4 2014 00: 29
        +2
        Turks will not give up!
    2. Orc-xnumx
      Orc-xnumx April 4 2014 01: 27
      +1
      ... but at least adequately served.
      Quote: Semen Semenych
      American type Oliver Perry (now the United States has 31 such frigates, 2 more Poland and 6 Spain), French type D'Estien D'Or (9 units), German type Bremen (8 units), Italian type "Maestrale" (8 units), Spanish type "Descuberta" (4 units). The Germans can also share Cheetah-type missile boats (8 units), a number of European countries can push several old minesweepers to Ukraine. There are even free submarines - German pr. 206 (5 units), Italian type "Sauro" (7 units), Spanish type "Galerna" (3 units).

      And who will serve this good? Which is also not the first freshness ...
    3. aleks 62
      aleks 62 April 4 2014 10: 36
      +3
      And who will serve this good? ....
      ... The main thing that would bulo ..... :)))))))
  3. Sergg
    Sergg April 3 2014 21: 52
    +14
    The only chance to create the Ukrainian Navy again is if someone gives Kiev a certain number of ready-made ships and boats. NATO countries have a wide range of old decommissioned frigates


    In the sense that the Ruin should recycle them. It either utilizes nuclear waste, or military equipment, not Kiev, but an international landfill. laughing And the politicians of Ukraine are directly created to work in a landfill, at least nothing will fall apart
    1. ele1285
      ele1285 April 3 2014 22: 34
      +8
      Quote: Sergg
      And Ukrainian politicians are directly created to work in a landfill

      Well, that sounds - a dump manager and hell guess what it is
    2. alexng
      alexng April 4 2014 00: 27
      +4
      Yes, they are from Kiev and so did the landfill and bomber.
      And what about the pigsty in the center of Kiev? Happened? Or limited to beds?
  4. konvalval
    konvalval April 3 2014 21: 53
    +5
    Russia gave this pseudo-fleet to Ukraine. Let them themselves suffer with him.
  5. Delink
    Delink April 3 2014 21: 53
    +4
    Why give back what went to $ 5 billion paid by the Americans. This is sacrilege, squandering good! wassat
  6. Crazyzyear
    Crazyzyear April 3 2014 21: 55
    +44
    Now we have returned not only the port for ships, but also repair bases .... everything fell into place.
    1. Orc-xnumx
      Orc-xnumx April 4 2014 01: 30
      +2
      Still Nikolaev, ..
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. alexng
        alexng April 4 2014 09: 11
        +3
        Not yet evening. Everything has its time. This will be done for us by the Americans because of their stonedness and inadequacy of their actions.
  7. Mercenary
    Mercenary April 3 2014 21: 57
    +17
    On the Black Sea since the 17th century there is only one military fleet-RUSSIA, the rest are temporary. only spoil the water.
    1. Arhj
      Arhj April 3 2014 22: 03
      +17
      It sounds beautiful of course, but the Turks still need to, if not respected, then at least take into account. Even a weak enemy cannot be underestimated, and Turkey is by no means weak.
      1. Bosk
        Bosk April 3 2014 22: 19
        +22
        And Turkey has never been weak, if you remember that it turns out that she chopped off a piece from Europe, and Russia did not "grab" from Turkey weakly, so it turns out that Russia did not beat weak Turkey, but a very strong one, and the victory over a strong adversary is worth ...
    2. maxcor1974
      maxcor1974 April 3 2014 23: 45
      +4
      With all due respect, my friend, you turned down about the 17 century ... Read the story for fun.
      1. cdrt
        cdrt April 4 2014 23: 27
        0
        Quote: maxcor1974
        With all due respect, my friend, you turned down about the 17 century ... Read the story for fun.


        You are wrong, well, it’s not customary here to learn history from a large part of clients
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Orc-xnumx
      Orc-xnumx April 4 2014 01: 32
      +4
      Quote: Mercenary
      On the Black Sea since the 17th century there is only one military fleet-RUSSIA, the rest are temporary. only spoil the water.

      Do not offend the Turks! Worthy was a rival!
      1. Lelek
        Lelek April 4 2014 09: 55
        +6
        True, the enemy must be respected (not to love, but not to spit in his direction). And the best thing is to coexist peacefully. drinks
    5. cdrt
      cdrt April 4 2014 23: 26
      0
      Quote: Mercenary
      On the Black Sea since the 17th century there is only one military fleet-RUSSIA, the rest are temporary. only spoil the water.


      Is this the one that flooded itself in Sevastopol in the Crimean War?
  8. nika407
    nika407 April 3 2014 21: 57
    +16
    Pseudo-Army))
    1. cdrt
      cdrt April 4 2014 23: 28
      0
      Quote: nika407
      Pseudo-Army))


      How long have our conscripts looked like this?
  9. Revolver
    Revolver April 3 2014 21: 58
    +17
    I just remember a famous joke: "If you want to ruin an underdeveloped country, give it a cruiser."
    So there is a cruiser! "Ukraine", project 1164 "Atlant". The new one, well, at least unused, did not leave the outfitting wall. What is called "no run". Able to eat up the military budget of Ukraine for many years to come.
    wassat
    1. svetlomor
      svetlomor April 3 2014 22: 10
      +4
      So there is a cruiser! "Ukraine"
      Already for sale, for some reason money was needed.
      1. Revolver
        Revolver April 3 2014 22: 31
        +11
        Quote: svetlomor
        Already for sale, why did you need money
        And who will buy? recourse In addition to the Russian Federation, nobody needs it. And the current non-fall management is more likely to strangle than to sell it to oaths.
        Although ... It is worth buying at least so that they strangle themselves. Whether to send to Nikolaev polite sales representatives in green business suits?
        1. Orc-xnumx
          Orc-xnumx April 4 2014 01: 40
          0
          Quote: Nagan
          Quote: svetlomor
          Already for sale, why did you need money
          And who will buy? recourse In addition to the Russian Federation, nobody needs it. And the current non-fall management is more likely to strangle than to sell it to oaths.
          Although ... It is worth buying at least so that they strangle themselves. Whether to send to Nikolaev polite sales representatives in green business suits?

          It is still the time of the USSR, and is of no interest! How much will redesign during modernization go? What about perestroika? NO!
        2. cdrt
          cdrt April 4 2014 23: 29
          0
          Quote: Nagan
          Although ... It is worth buying at least so that they strangle themselves. Whether to send to Nikolaev polite sales representatives in green business suits?


          I've always considered 1164 the most beautiful of our ships. Sorry cruiser
      2. jktu66
        jktu66 April 4 2014 00: 36
        +2
        Well, they sell "Ukraine", as well as Ukraine, symbolically ... but a worthy cruiser. was at 89 on this
    2. vadson
      vadson April 3 2014 22: 17
      +5
      so to run it in a run, you need to spend another half the budget not to spend it, and if you modernize, oh wei
    3. mamont5
      mamont5 April 4 2014 05: 45
      +2
      Quote: Nagan
      So there is a cruiser! "Ukraine", project 1164 "Atlant". The new one, well, at least unused, did not leave the outfitting wall. What is called "no run". Able to eat up the military budget of Ukraine for many years to come.

      Is it like the same type with RKR Moscow? Only unfinished. And what, you can purchase and finish building. And there, Moscow will get up for repairs.
  10. Grenz
    Grenz April 3 2014 21: 58
    +7
    Some samples of weapons and equipment must still be kept for yourself. Like museum pieces. The same submarine "Zaporozhye". Combat ship in history. And other rare examples of former pride.
    I just didn’t understand that in Ukraine there was a naval academy. Where did her graduates go. This is not a junior crew. There is no money in the country, but they stamp admirals. Shine and poverty.
    1. yur
      yur April 3 2014 22: 51
      +4
      Quote: grenz
      I just didn’t understand that in Ukraine there was a naval academy. Where did her graduates go?
      Yes no .. It's just a name. Well, as we have former simple military schools overnight became academies and military universities.
  11. S_mirnov
    S_mirnov April 3 2014 21: 59
    +11
    It is quite clear that for our greatly reduced army, the equipment remaining after the USSR is abundant. In my opinion, it is necessary to evaluate not how much equipment is needed for the remnants of the Soviet army, but how much is needed to protect the territory of the Russian Federation!
    And with this approach, it turns out that a good master and X ... Y - the rope! For something, I don’t remember that for our fleet something larger than a corvette or a boat was put into operation. Landing ships are definitely not built! So while we roll our lips to future buildings - the old people should not be scrapped!
    P.S. "An ax will do if there is no pistol!" Ezikiel Group, album 2517.
    1. krechet-1978
      krechet-1978 April 4 2014 00: 52
      +2
      I warmly agree with you. And old ships need to be kept in good shape, they can always be strengthened with modern missile systems and the latest equipment. - All this is now in a compact and universal design. Again, the entire fleet should sail, go to sea, gain experience, and master weapons and equipment.
      1. krechet-1978
        krechet-1978 April 4 2014 01: 01
        +3
        And as old ships are replaced with new old ones, they can be used for educational, enlightening and patriotic purposes. - In any city where there is a sea or river port, you can put a small warship on an eternal honorable mooring - make a museum, let the children inculcate love for the sea, navy and, in general, for serving the motherland.
      2. papik09
        papik09 April 4 2014 07: 10
        +3
        Choose the words, pliz. "Must swim", floats g .. but in the hole wassat and sailors go. hi
        1. cheega69
          cheega69 April 4 2014 15: 56
          +3
          Yeah, everything is not like people: they walk on the sea, and speed in knots, and distance in miles.
        2. krechet-1978
          krechet-1978 April 5 2014 02: 59
          0
          "The personnel of the fleet must WALK"? So what? And how do you order sailors to move by land - to swim?
  12. serega.fedotov
    serega.fedotov April 3 2014 22: 00
    +2
    want to ruin the country? -Give her a cruiser! I wonder what they will do in Odessa with this "fleet" without large shipyards? And the main thing is that in six months this scrap will have to be transferred to Ukraine for the second time!
  13. pvv113
    pvv113 April 3 2014 22: 00
    +12
    Ultimately, Russia will become the sovereign mistress of the Black Sea!
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood April 4 2014 04: 45
      +2
      In the Black Sea there is still Turkey, and they have a fleet no worse than our Black Sea.
  14. Bazilevs
    Bazilevs April 3 2014 22: 01
    +12
    It’s time to remind everyone that there was a time when the Black Sea was called Russian !!!!
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. Little Muck
    Little Muck April 3 2014 22: 09
    +8
    Removing the pseudo-fleet from the Black Sea horizon is not all we have to do. Even if it is scrap metal, he still can shoot this scrap metal in the hands of savages and the mentally ill. I think the return of the ships should be done "with a sawed-off striker." So that even the last one does not do stupid things.
  17. kelevra
    kelevra April 3 2014 22: 11
    +1
    Ships, about 80 pieces, former Ukrainian, in my opinion have already decided to give back to Ukraine! I think this is a mistake, and the main problem may be that due to the instability in the power of Ukraine, the newly recreated fleet of Ukraine can arrange provocations in Crimea that can lead to adverse effects.
    1. yur
      yur April 3 2014 22: 58
      +3
      Quote: kelevra
      recreated fleet of Ukraine, can arrange provocations in Crimea, which can lead to adverse consequences
      The solution is, of course, interesting. But I think that Putin and Shoigu have calculated all the consequences, otherwise the "nezalezhny" would not have received a rusty nut.
  18. The comment was deleted.
  19. Leshka
    Leshka April 3 2014 22: 14
    +4
    I would leave to neigh laughing
  20. Mih
    Mih April 3 2014 22: 17
    +20
    Navy Ukaini is what? Do not make me laugh, Aunt Haya. Are they Ukrainians sailors? I beg of you. The Norwegians on the brokers were sea robbers, and, well ... on the junks it’s nothing at all. Zaporizhzhya Sich - a sea power? Yes, I love the Cossacks, but they are not sailors, no matter how hard they try - pehtura (this is a question) for Lviv. I am not a nationalist, but it’s not possible to make a sailor out of a Jew. (How to make a bullet out of g ..) Please forgive me all Jews who know me - you are not sailors, you can fish in shallow water, but no more.
    1. SS68SS
      SS68SS April 3 2014 22: 27
      0
      as said !!!! respect !!!! good
    2. SS68SS
      SS68SS April 3 2014 22: 27
      0
      as said !!!! respect !!!! good
    3. cdrt
      cdrt April 4 2014 23: 33
      0
      Quote: Mih
      Navy Ukaini is what? Do not make me laugh, Aunt Haya. Are they Ukrainians sailors? I beg of you. The Norwegians on the brokers were sea robbers, and, well ... on the junks it’s nothing at all. Zaporizhzhya Sich - a sea power? Yes, I love the Cossacks, but they are not sailors, no matter how hard they try - pehtura (this is a question) for Lviv. I am not a nationalist, but it’s not possible to make a sailor out of a Jew. (How to make a bullet out of g ..) Please forgive me all Jews who know me - you are not sailors, you can fish in shallow water, but no more.


      Hmm ... and the Cossacks hiking Turkey to rob?
      And what nationality was in most of the Black Sea Fleet at the time of the Republic of Ingushetia?
  21. Arh
    Arh April 3 2014 22: 25
    0
    It is also necessary to return Southeast and ukrov to teach respect !!!
  22. Lissyara
    Lissyara April 3 2014 22: 26
    +10
    At one time (namely, in 2006), I built the NSC of the Russian Navy (in other words, the Navy's focal point), the purpose of which was to combat terrorism, natural disasters, etc. (saving the drowning is the work of the drowning themselves).
    You can, or can you instruct me on the minuses, but no one "privatized" seas-oceans. Yes, then it was funny - the Georgians were cutting on boats, there was not enough "fuel oil" on the "Sagaidachny", the Bulgarians were mowing that they did not know Russian (after all, the cat of a bitch, graduated from Frunzenka), the Romanians yelled about "expensive exercises" white uniform.
    Then there was clarity, and in the eyes of the officers it was clear that "no one is going to tear anyone up," but only politicians are ...
    I myself am the son of a submarine officer. So, let's not confuse neutral waters and the country's defenses.
    1. papik09
      papik09 April 4 2014 07: 23
      +1
      Correct words. Do not confuse God's gift with fried eggs! drinks
  23. Patriot23
    Patriot23 April 3 2014 22: 31
    0
    I think it’s impossible to sell ships, no matter what they are, they will come in handy yet) or in a pinch you can sell, and put money into developing the base ..
  24. Monk
    Monk April 3 2014 22: 34
    +6
    Quote: konvalval
    Russia gave this pseudo-fleet to Ukraine. Let them themselves suffer with him.


    Russia gave the battle fleet, and the pseudo was already made in an independent
  25. individual
    individual April 3 2014 22: 34
    +3
    Hmm.
    Such fleets as the Ukrainian Black Sea simply can not stand it.
    So, let submarines be based in the steppes of Ukraine. am
  26. Rblipetsk
    Rblipetsk April 3 2014 22: 35
    +6
    ... and a patrol boat, pr. 1400M Skadovsk, ...
    Damn, I read up to this point and began to laugh ... as in a "stalker". How are Beard and Owl getting on there at Skadovsk? aaaaa ukroflot, floating circus laughing
  27. thrower
    thrower April 3 2014 22: 35
    +3
    Europe has a nice tradition - selling its old ships to South America.
    Something like that. So Ukraine, get in line.
    P.S. I don’t want to gloat, but if you recall how much and what was inherited from the USSR ...


    Clemenceau
    Clemenceau R 98 Brest Arsenal November 1955 21 December 1957 22 November 1961 removed from service 1 October 1997, intended to be scrapped
    Foch
    Foch
    Brazilian Navy:
    Sao paulo
    São Paulo R 99 Pehoet Loire / Brest Arsenal 15 November 1957 23 July 1960 15 July 1963 sold to Brazil at 2000, in service at 2009
  28. kodxnumx
    kodxnumx April 3 2014 22: 42
    +9
    everything is so Ukraine wasn’t not when the sea was as if to say the country, damn it, and not strange when it wasn’t the hell! but who was she then crying
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood April 4 2014 06: 16
      +3
      From the name it is clear that this is the Outskirts - the outskirts of Russia. And it is independent by misunderstanding.
  29. Kombrig
    Kombrig April 3 2014 22: 43
    +2
    And what, is it unprofitable to utilize military equipment (not nuclear weapons)? Enlighten knowledgeable people ....
  30. Stinger
    Stinger April 3 2014 22: 44
    +4
    Quote: Mih
    I am not a nationalist, but it’s not possible to make a sailor out of a Jew. (How to make a bullet out of g ..) Please forgive me all Jews who know me - you are not sailors, you can fish in shallow water, but no more.


    But what about Babelevskoe "A Jew who looked like a sailor entered"?
    1. Lelek
      Lelek April 4 2014 09: 43
      +2
      It's like a Jewish janitor. bully
      1. cdrt
        cdrt April 4 2014 23: 35
        0
        Quote: Lelek
        It's like a Jewish janitor. bully


        You should visit Odessa laughing
        And you will see the Jewish janitors laughing
  31. sub307
    sub307 April 3 2014 22: 44
    +3
    By the way, "upstairs" decided to return all the ships to Ukraine ("a big giraffe he knows better ..."). The catch is that there is no one to "drive" them to Odessa, the crews went to serve in the ARF.
    1. Tati
      Tati April 3 2014 23: 14
      +3
      Well, yes, according to the principle "God is on You, that we don't like it." Well, the leadership of the Russian Federation decided to do a petty dirty trick to the so-called government of Ukraine, so let them now deal with this scrap metal themselves, so that problems do not become a little.
  32. voliador
    voliador April 3 2014 22: 49
    +4
    If in the 90s we didn’t have enough money to maintain the fleet in good condition, then what about Ukraine?
  33. kocclissi
    kocclissi April 3 2014 22: 53
    +3
    The fleet for Ukraine is like a suitcase without a handle: it’s not convenient to drag, but the toad didn’t let you get away! And then all of a sudden ....... they came! They took it away! Now it will be Ukraine without a fleet, eh? Admirals catch fish on what will be?
  34. voliador
    voliador April 3 2014 22: 58
    +2
    And in general - to melt it! The steel there is solid, manufactured in the USSR.
    1. Afinogen
      Afinogen April 3 2014 23: 29
      +3
      Quote: voliador
      And in general - to melt it! The steel there is solid, manufactured in the USSR.


      I agree one hundred percent, the metal is good there, and there are a lot of precious and rarely earth metals in radio - electronic equipment (in Soviet times they spared nothing for the army). For example, airplanes can be put on the wing for, say, Serbia (they fly on the MiG-21 as well). Restoration and modernization are at their expense. Tanks can be modernized, you can also attach (not all countries are rich, which can allow modern technology) Syria fights outdated equipment.
      1. krechet-1978
        krechet-1978 April 4 2014 01: 08
        +2
        Serbia should not be tortured with old weapons, it’s better to take it to Russia, they recently asked to be respected.
  35. Boa kaa
    Boa kaa April 3 2014 23: 16
    +8
    The article undoubtedly contains interesting thoughts. But I would like to dwell on one thing:
    The geopolitical situation in the Black Sea will hardly change after the annexation of Crimea,

    with which I cannot agree in any way. The peninsula occupies a dominant position in the Black Sea. Sevastopol - (of course!) - a pearl, naval base of the Black Sea Fleet, a sea fortress with an excellent basing system and MTO of the fleet ships.
    But it will be wrong to forget about aviation! Crimea is correctly called an unsinkable aircraft carrier, which dramatically changes the "geopolitical situation" in favor of Russia. With the annexation of the Crimea, the fleet only using aircraft is able to neutralize the Turkish fleet. There is nothing to say about the fleets of Bulgaria and Romania, Ukraine and Georgia. And if in an infantry way (to make it clearer) Crimea is the dominant height over the World Cup.
    In-2's, with the receipt of the Crimea, the situation with the system of basing fleet forces changed dramatically. Now you can’t lock the fleet forces in the naval warfare space with one successful mine setting.
    So the geopolitical situation with the annexation of Crimea is changing dramatically in our favor.
    1. cdrt
      cdrt April 4 2014 23: 37
      0
      Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
      But it would be wrong to forget about aviation! Crimea is correctly called an unsinkable aircraft carrier, which dramatically changes the "geopolitical situation" in favor of Russia. With the annexation of the Crimea, the fleet only using aviation is able to neutralize the Turkish fleet. There is nothing to say about the fleets of Bulgaria and Romania, Ukraine and Georgia. And if in infantry (to make it clearer) Crimea is the dominant height over the World Cup.
      In-2's, with the receipt of the Crimea, the situation with the system of basing fleet forces changed dramatically. Now you can’t lock the fleet forces in the naval warfare space with one successful mine setting.
      So the geopolitical situation with the annexation of Crimea is changing dramatically in our favor.


      Here is +100500 for you
      Who controls the Crimea controls the World Cup, and at the same time, all shipping in it.
  36. typhoon7
    typhoon7 April 3 2014 23: 18
    +2
    The fleet is the lot of strong countries and powers, Ukraine does not fit into these concepts, it can generally cease to exist as an independent state.
  37. 2front
    2front April 3 2014 23: 20
    +1
    Quote: waisson
    ------------- hi

    Frightens appearance))
  38. Giant thought
    Giant thought April 3 2014 23: 29
    +4
    It might not have been worthwhile to return the ships to Ukraine, albeit with metal, but at the right moment they will get confused under our feet.
  39. Sevastopol
    Sevastopol April 3 2014 23: 45
    +5
    Quote: Bazilevs
    It’s time to remind everyone that there was a time when the Black Sea was called Russian !!!!

    But Khokhlyat historians think differently, from a history textbook
    1. Dezinto
      Dezinto April 3 2014 23: 56
      +5
      After such historians, then a new generation of Ukrainians composes poems with the words - "we will never be brothers", what else we envy them because they have democracy. ))) hhmhmm proooosto and sad and funny, damn how they ate their brains!
      1. Lelek
        Lelek April 4 2014 09: 35
        +3
        To eat brains, you must at least have them. And when the bone is solid on the x-ray, then this is not a pathology, but ugliness - degeneration. fool
    2. cdrt
      cdrt April 4 2014 23: 38
      0
      Quote: Sevastopol
      But Khokhlyat historians think differently, from a history textbook


      Fairy tales told at night change reality only for children listening to them
    3. The comment was deleted.
  40. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa April 4 2014 00: 06
    +4
    If you give everything back then there are fewer reasons for Ukrainians to sue and less reason to squeeze out our money for gas that hang in the form of debt. This junk is not worth it. The only pity for the BDK is that you can fix it and it will be useful, you won’t have to drive the BDK from KTOF. It’s not a sin to buy him back, or set off as part of the debt.
  41. miland
    miland April 4 2014 00: 09
    +1
    In connection with the degradation of its own armed forces, Ukraine can only bend under NATO, and they only need it ...
  42. w2000
    w2000 April 4 2014 00: 39
    0
    It's a shame that all captured equipment in the Crimea is returned to Ukraine. It still will not improve relations with the Russophobic leadership of Ukraine, but it may happen that this equipment will shoot at our soldiers in the future. And was it worth it to sink ships in Donuzlav and arrange aboard if all captured ships are returned to Ukraine?
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood April 4 2014 06: 18
      +2
      NOT all. About 30 ships will be part of the Black Sea Fleet. Apparently everything else is so decrepit that it was decided to give the Ukrainians.
  43. The comment was deleted.
  44. DimDimych
    DimDimych April 4 2014 00: 45
    +3
    during the ceremony of raising the Russian flag on the territory
    Academy of the Navy. P.S. Nakhimov in Sevastopol

    over the academy behalf of the Hero of the Sevastopol Defense Pavel Stepanovich Nakhimov
    only one flag has the right to Flag of Russia, any other panels - no!


    "The highest diploma
    Our Vice Admiral, Head of the 5th Fleet Division, Nakhimov
    The extermination of the Turkish squadron at Sinop you decorated the annals of the Russian fleet new victory
    which will forever remain memorable in maritime history

    The status of the military order of the Holy Great Martyr and Victorious George indicates a reward for your
    feat fulfilling the status of joy with true joy, we grant you the gentleman of St. George
    of the second degree of the big cross, being favored by our imperial mercy

    On the true Own of His Imperial Majesty the hand says:

    Nicholas
    St. Petersburg, November 28, 1853. "
    1. cdrt
      cdrt April 4 2014 23: 40
      0
      Quote: DimDimych
      over the Academy named after the Hero of the Sevastopol Defense Pavel Stepanovich Nakhimov


      Origin then he Khokhlyatsky laughing
      His father from Slobozhanshchina
  45. Cristall
    Cristall April 4 2014 00: 51
    +5
    If they return, then of course there will be problems. My city is still a temporary base - as a supply and training personnel, it will fit, but as a fleet base ... well, not very .. Commercial port, after all.
    Therefore, I think that everything will be in Nikolaev, well, maybe Oktyabrsk. Nikolaev itself was supposed to be a place for repair and preparation and other things ..
    In general, no one is thinking about this right now.
    How I would draw as possible.
    It would be possible even without rubbish to really invest in security boats and 2-3 powerful vessels to display the flag and ocean tasks (the same exercises)
    4 corvettes + cruiser Ukraine, we would more than have replaced all those 70 Sevastopol ships (well, maybe BOD, of course)
    I don’t know that the headquarters of the Navy thinks about everything. Yes, they transferred to Odessa. It’s just that there was once a headquarters. Yes, this is generally the only place where you can keep the fleet. Well, that’s all .. and what's next - gloom ..
    as with the country .. gloom gloom ..
    1. cdrt
      cdrt April 4 2014 23: 42
      0
      Quote: Cristall
      4 corvettes + cruiser Ukraine, we would more than have replaced all those 70 Sevastopol ships (well, maybe BOD, of course)


      It really would be a Navy.
      Only the likelihood that Ukraine will build such a fleet somehow near zero IMHO
  46. kotyara
    kotyara April 4 2014 01: 30
    +2
    Yes figs with him this bunch of scrap metal, but the attitude will still change I think they will update the Black Sea Fleet as quickly as possible, because now there are no restrictions constantly put forward by Ukraine!
    1. No Name
      No Name April 4 2014 02: 10
      +1
      Quote: cat
      because now there are no restrictions constantly put forward by Ukraine!

      And once they were considered ??? belay
      "Samum" was overtaken and the agreements were lost ... And nothing.
      IMHO, the Black Sea Fleet update did not depend on these restrictions in any way.
      Depended only on the presence of these same ships. For before the entry into operation of the first TFR pr.11356, PL pr.636 and FR pr.22350 there is practically nothing to update the Black Sea Fleet ...
      1. cdrt
        cdrt April 4 2014 23: 44
        0
        Quote: No Name
        For before the entry into operation of the first TFR pr.11356, PL pr.636 and FR pr.22350 there is practically nothing to update the Black Sea Fleet ...


        With the introduction of that 11356, that 22350 now, apparently have to wait great.
        Because the turbines (as I understand the hot part) and, most importantly, the gearboxes are there with Dawns, and now they will not be.
        The first ships of the series have already been delivered, in my opinion, and the second 11356, but the next ones will not be.
        And they promise to replace them by the year 2016, they will probably be late and will make a total by 2018 ...
  47. Aeneas
    Aeneas April 4 2014 01: 54
    +2
    in the article, Ukrainian weapons in Crimea are called "trophies". But excuse me, what trophies? After all, the Ukrainians did not fight the Russians, and "trophy" is a concept from the lexicon of military operations. Ukrainians consider Russians to be brothers, and they perfectly understood who these "green men" were. True, sometimes the "green men" were reinsured, sending non-combatants to the "assault" in front of them ... Now, this feeling of the Slavic brotherhood of Ukrainians, in the sick imagination of the "couch napaleons", has turned into evidence of the collapse and non-combat readiness of the "gang of Bendera". Excited cries are often heard with calls to "liberate Little Russia" and the mother of the Russian Cities. I would advise you to change your mind, analyze soberly, and not make mistakes, because they have already been done immeasurably. Because the force of action will still sometime cause the force of reaction. And then we will hear not toasts about the brotherhood, but indignantly offended: "They betrayed us!", "Sold to us!"
    1. tantalum
      tantalum April 4 2014 04: 25
      +7
      You're not right. Firstly, almost everyone who here in one way or another speaks about the victory over Ukraine does not mean not the people, but the authorities of Ukraine. Secondly, no matter how hard the historians of Ukraine try, especially in recent decades, we are one people and not "brotherly, kindred" or something else. anything named. It is clear that in the invented country it was necessary to come up with a justification for a new self-identity. And it's sad that over the years of independence they almost turned out differently, the inhabitants of Little Russia themselves would have swept away all the evil spirits that are now in power, and for this they would not need any "polite people" or any help from outside. it would not seem to you, but it would really be beneficial for Russia that this misunderstanding called Ukraine became a strong and rich country. Just that there would not be that devilry and outright idiocy, even to the detriment of their own population and not only towards Russia. What would the "leaders" of this country think first of all about the country and, as a result, about the inhabitants of this country, and not about their pockets. And if such appear, then there will be no reason for collapse and no one will have any thoughts to fight among themselves.
  48. Zomanus
    Zomanus April 4 2014 02: 23
    +1
    Well, in general, everything is correct. I would be indicative on the border of Crimea and Ukraine to create a landfill where all the junk from the military units of Ukraine would be taken. Honestly, all weapons must be returned. Crimea needs to be provided with everything new, otherwise it’s the junk that will be there. And drag the ships of the Ukrainian fleet to the raid of Odessa with our forces and set an expense for this.
    1. Lelek
      Lelek April 4 2014 09: 03
      +3
      Does Odessa need it? bully
    2. cdrt
      cdrt April 4 2014 23: 46
      0
      Quote: Zomanus
      I would be indicative on the border of Crimea and Ukraine to create a landfill where all the junk from the military units of Ukraine would be taken


      So it seems that right after Chongar this is already
  49. polite people
    polite people April 4 2014 03: 23
    +1
    In fact, no one mocks them.
    It was they who mocked what Russia gave
    to them as an inheritance. But so fuck up all the equipment.?!
    This is what a thief should be.
    Odessa pickpockets rest on Privoz. hi
    1. Lelek
      Lelek April 4 2014 09: 23
      +3
      Oh-ho-ho, when instead of eyes for a dollar, it's not up to technology and not up to the people. Ukrainian temporary workers acted and are acting according to the principle: "a butterfly with its wings byak-byak-byak-byak, followed by a sparrow ..." and so on. Russia in Crimea needs to get rid of the "dead" trash, fill Sevastopol with the latest technology , and conduct constant monitoring of the Black Sea water area, so that not a single star-mattress kukaracha can enter the "RUSSIAN SEA" without demand and without wiping their feet. soldier
  50. bashkort
    bashkort April 4 2014 04: 49
    +1
    Troughs - to return, let grandmas pay for the drive. Downtime in Sevastopol - at the rates of fine parking. And to load the trough with land waste, maybe at the same time they will drown somewhere along the road, or they will get lost in Constanta, where the Romanians will be happy to saw them on the metal.