Military Review

The unearthly beauty of the "Alligator"

72
As stated by the command of the Air Force, under the state defense order program until 2012, the army aviation will receive about 30 Ka-52 Alligator. The first four serial boards arrived at the Torzhok Center for Combat Use and Retraining of Army Aviation Pilots in January, and all this time the pilots underwent a management training course. The presentation of press machines took place on February 8th.


In all likelihood, the first combat units that the Alligators will receive will be those located in the Primorsky Territory. This is natural, since the helicopter is being produced there in the city of Arsenyev, which means that the maintenance of new rotorcraft will be carried out promptly and relatively cheaply. In addition, it is the Ka-52 that is supposed to be based on the Mistrals, which, as has been officially announced, will be part of the Pacific fleet.

Ka-52 - as a double version of the Ka-50 - was created in the middle of the 1990-s. In 1997, he passed the tests and was recognized by experts of one of the most promising combat vehicles in the world. The helicopter’s armament consists of 12 supersonic Vortex ATGM, 80 unguided X-mmX caliber air-launched missiles, air-to-air missiles, as well as an 80-mm 302 gun with 42 rounds of ammunition.

Everything is fine. But this should have happened at least ten years ago.

In general, the Ka-50, the world's best combat helicopters, had to be the main strike force of army aviation for fifteen years.




To prevent this from happening, at one time even eliminated the army aviation itself, transferring it to the subordination of the Air Force — there simply is no other explanation for this decision. Recently, by the way, army aviation was withdrawn from the Air Force and transferred under the wing of the joint strategic commands. Everything, as it should be, has returned to normal.

In all that concerns Ka-50 and Ka-52, I am a partisan person. My sympathy, of course, on the side of these machines. Various materials about the technical characteristics of "Sharks", "Alligators", their completely meaningless battle with the "Night Hunter", have accumulated a lot - on the Internet is easy to find. I will tell about what I witnessed or heard from the direct participants in the events.

In the sixties of the twentieth century, the military decided to get a flying BMP. Two firms competed - Milevskaya and Kamovskaya. Kamovtsy offered a very interesting project of an helicopter of an infantry fighting vehicle capable of transporting fully armed motorized infantry units, landed on the ground and supported from the air with rocket-machine-gun fire. Milevtsy designed a helicopter with better armor protection and more powerful engines, which, according to their application, could also carry in their womb a detachment of fighters. They won. So there was the famous Mi-24. Only because of his overworking, he could not carry the detachment of fighters - instead of him there was a mechanic in the compartment who, when Afgan happened, was killed just for the company - with the pilot and the navigator. The fact that instead of a BMP flying triple tank turned out, the military did not bother. And how could he be embarrassed if in the seventies such a combat helicopter was not in any NATO army?

In the USA, they became agitated, started warning in time - and rather quickly designed the excellent combat AN-64 Apache. In the USSR they decided to give a decent answer. In the new technical assignment, the Ministry of Defense demanded the creation of a “clean” helicopter-fighter, without any landings there. Ka-50 and Mi-28 came together in a contest. Even before the collapse of the USSR, it became apparent that the Ka-50 surpassed the Mile competitor in almost all the main characteristics. At the same time, the Mi-28 in its configuration strikingly resembled the American "Indian", but the Ka-50 was original in everything.

1990 was almost the peak in the widest "publicity", which a year later went into insane hysteria. But in the ninetieth much still seemed stable. And the idea to show the beauty of Soviet military equipment by means of art cinema. The fact is that at that time, unmaskers of the USSR military-industrial complex raged in journalism, who allegedly simply devoured the entire economy of the country, without producing anything worthwhile. Our military equipment has always been kept secret, so only specialists knew what it really is.

Meanwhile, in addition to the excellent performance characteristics, the Soviet military equipment was simply beautiful. And it was the beauty of a real warrior - a strong defender, and not a terrifying aggressor.


A new American film, Fire Birds, appeared on the video screens, showing what AN-64 is capable of. It was a beautiful movie in every respect. I came to the "Milevskaya" company and offered to help in creating a feature film, where our answer to the Apache would play the main role - a wonderful, as it seemed to me, Mi-28. I will omit all the details of a long conversation with the top officials of the company. I was told that Mi-28 advertising is not needed, and it will go into service, although the competition was formally lost. Arguments that it is not about advertising a specific helicopter, but about advertising the capabilities of the entire national defense-industrial complex, did not take action. As a result, they told me directly: it is better to give the money that was required to be allocated for the picture to those generals and civilian officials, whose decision depended on the adoption of the helicopter. Corruption in its purest form.


Mi-28 in the first flight

The conversation took place twenty years ago, in a country that no longer exists. There are no people who then led the project Mi-28. Someone went into another world, someone retired, someone in other areas of activity. Yes, and bribes, if they were, did not help. Ka-50 officially adopted in the 1995-m, work on the Mi-28 closed. The loser helicopter was reanimated later in the Mi-28H “Night Hunter” project, which at the end of the zero years of the XXI century was put into service without any competition and immediately launched into mass production, guaranteeing a huge state order by our standards. And ka-xnumx shut down.

After the “Milevskaya” firm, I went to the “Kamovskaya”. Its head, Sergey Mikheev, got an idea about creating a movie. The problem was that the helicopter was then still a secret object of the B-80. Nevertheless, the general designer Mikheev assured that he would settle all the formalities and even find some amount to finance the filming.

So came the first in stories national cinema film, which quite frankly advertised military equipment, created in our country, where for the first time it was openly said about the Soviet special forces. "Black Shark" - and the name of the film, and the name of an amazing helicopter.


We will not talk about the artistic merit of the old cinema - it was better to remove it. The film was launched in the USSR in 1991, and was filmed already in the CIS, in the independent state of Uzbekistan in 1992. There was no necessary funding, there was a Gaidar collapse of the ruble. The war began in Tajikistan, and the special forces brigade, which provided all the work of the film crew, flew to extinguish it - which, under the command of Colonel Vladimir Kvachkov, did great. Filming turned, the director Vitaly Lukin had to mount a film of a small material, which managed to shoot in just a few days.



Ka-50, Black Shark

And, nevertheless, everyone who watched the picture could see with their own eyes the truly fantastic capabilities of the Ka-50 helicopter in the mountains. Mikheev himself said that he largely agreed to a real movie tantrum in order to see how his car behaves in the mountain-desert terrain, in conditions of high temperatures and high air rarefaction, as state tests in the mountains did not provide. And the wars were going on exactly there - in Afghanistan, Tajikistan, the Caucasus had already caught fire. For strategists of the General Staff, however, the main theater of operations was still represented by flat Western Europe. It is worth repeating: “Black Shark” on the set of the film of the same name in 1992 showed itself brilliantly in the mountains. And once again it should be recalled: the Ka-50 was accepted into service in the 1995. The plant in Arsenyev was ready to start mass production of machines, but they did not give them money. They accepted for service - they did not allocate funds!

The war in Chechnya, which broke out in 1995, once again confirmed the Afghan truth: there are no military helicopters in Russia that meet the conditions in which our army has been fighting for decades and may be fighting for a long time. Alas, the Black Sharks counter-terrorist operation in the North Caucasus never appeared. It was with great difficulty to test the Ka-50 in combat mountain conditions only at the beginning of the second counter-terrorist operation ...

In January, a unique combat attack group of helicopters consisting of two Ka-2001 and one Ka-50VPNTSU began operating in Chechnya, 29, which is an airborne observation and targeting point. For the first time, it was supposed not only to evaluate the combat capabilities and operational characteristics of the Black Sharks in harsh field conditions and real combat, but also to try out a fundamentally new tactic for using attack helicopters using an air command center. The crew of the Ka-29VPNTSU had, without entering the risk zone, to issue target designation for one-person Ka-50 and control the flight of "sharks" in difficult conditions of mountainous terrain.


Ka-29VPNTSU

For nearly two months, the helicopter group, under the cover of strict secrecy, worked in the interests of the Joint Group of Federal Forces in Chechnya.

The closeness of the work was justified, as the Arab emissaries promised a million dollars to the militant who will bring down the Black Shark. So what did the Ka-50 and the entire combat strike group in Chechnya show?


Helicopters were based alternately at the airfields of Grozny-Severny and in Khankala. The interest in “Black Sharks” on the part of all helicopter pilots was immense. They yearned for a new technique. Therefore, each Ka-50 departure was meticulously evaluated not only by specialists involved in the work, but also by Mi-24 pilots. Ka-50, as a rule, flew, accompanied by covering their Mi-24. Immediately revealed indicative feature. Even a very experienced escort pilot often lost sight of the car he was supposed to guard. Due to their excellent technical characteristics, the Ka-50, when performing energetic spatial maneuvers, quickly left the field of view of the Mi-24 crew, which, in general, was unsafe and threatened to crash cars in the air. It was necessary to sit at the helm of the Mi-24 alternately to those pilots who managed to master the Ka-50 and knew its features.

The unearthly beauty of the "Alligator"

Serial Mi-24A

Tests have shown that the actual firepower of the Black Shark even exceeded that stated. And if we compare the Ka-50 and Mi-24, then the superiority in range and accuracy of shooting at the “sharks” turned out to be more than twofold, although the armament in terms of caliber is the same. From a distance of three and a half kilometers, projectiles fired from the 2А42 cannon literally fell into the top ten. Accordingly, the consumption of ammunition, and therefore the number of targets hit by the “Black Sharks” is significantly higher than that of any other helicopter. Trial launches of Whirlwind missiles were conducted. They fired at the militants' stronghold, a half-destroyed structure on the top of one of the slides. The launch was made under difficult visibility in a cloudy haze. "Whirlwind", like in a movie, flew exactly into the window opening and completely destroyed the target.

The power supply and maneuverability of the “Black Shark” in the conditions of the mountains are illustrated by the following example. At the very beginning of January, 2001-th group from Ka-50 and Mi-24 conducted reconnaissance near the village of Komsomolskoye - the famous refuge of Gelayev's gang. At the bottom of the Komsomolskoye-Pear gorge they identified possible targets: a masked horse-tie and a rest house. The pilots received confirmation that the militants are actively using these objects, and the order: to destroy targets. Ka-50 gave a rocket-gun volley on the house, turning it into dust. On the ground there was a powerful explosion. Later it turned out that the large warehouse of explosives had been detonated. A squall of stones and logs flew towards the helicopter. However, the Ka-50 with a vertical speed of about 30 m / s, like a ball, jumped to a height of one and a half kilometers and did not receive any damage.

After this incident, the pilots and Mi-24, and Mi-8, and Ka-50 unanimously agreed that the Black Shark is the same mountain helicopter that the army has sorely lacked since the Afghan war. How many tragedies could have been avoided if helicopters, like the Ka-50, could spin in tight canyons around their axes, jump over obstacles unexpectedly arising in the mountains, climb up with a speed three times greater than that 28H. The most important result of the work was not only confirmation of the truly excellent characteristics of the Black Shark, but also the discovery of a new, in fact, tactic implemented in a combat strike group.

The helicopter, no matter how beautiful it is, is very vulnerable. And knock down the same "shark" is not difficult. But this is the case if we are guided by the instructions that were written in the middle of the last century.


According to the new tactics, attack helicopters must patrol in a safe area, waiting for the attack command. Having received target designation, they quickly go to the area of ​​attack, deliver their smashing blow and immediately leave the battle zone. The shock grouping should be controlled from a helicopter that performs the functions of a command post, and not by voice, but in telecode mode and character form. The enemy should not hear the negotiations of the pilots and their commanders, then the appearance of the attacking helicopters will be unexpected. Flying KP itself must be equipped with the most modern surveillance systems, receive additional information from satellites, from AWACS type aircraft, from ground-based aircraft manufacturers who also have the support of the above-mentioned aerospace surveillance systems. In this case, the effectiveness of the use of combat helicopters and the safety of their flights increase many times over.

All this, albeit not completely, but was tested ten years ago. The airborne observation and target designation station, Ka-29VPNTS, flew at a height inaccessible to rocket "needles" and kept a closed telecode connection with "sharks". The Ka-50 displays displayed all information about the location, terrain, and coordinates of the target that needed to be destroyed. Ka-50 were equipped with the domestic satellite navigation system "Outline", which allowed to fly on a digital map of the terrain with rounding of the relief almost blindly and reach the target with an accuracy of several meters.

Upon returning to Moscow, the Army Aviation Administration drew up a detailed report on the work of the combat strike group, and especially Ka-50, and made some observations on the group itself and on the Black Shark about 40. However, the pilots who took part in the trials and wrote their report were confident that the real work on the commissioning of new equipment and new tactical techniques really began. And that was the main thing for them!

Alas, all the reports on the work of the Ka-50 in Chechnya and proposals for a more active use of combat strike groups were put on the shelf. During the memorable “peace enforcement” of 08.08.08, the tactics of using helicopters, which were successfully tested in 2001, were not used.


Immediately after completing the tests, the then Chief of the General Staff, Anatoly Kvashnin, was almost forcefully dragged to Rostov-on-Don, to the plant where it was planned to assemble the Mi-28H. It is hard to say how, but the NGSh was convinced that the Ka-50 was a very bad helicopter, but the Night Hunter was what the army needed. The press launched a company to discredit the Black Shark. Even on the pages of one very patriotic newspaper, a “solid” round table entitled “Pilot and Helicopter” was held. The purpose of the table is to fill the Ka-50 with dirt so that there is no light place left.


Ka-50SH

What are the reproaches of the Black Shark? First of all, the car is single. To this day, all opponents simply fight hysterically, proving that one person cannot control a helicopter and fight at the same time. "Kamovtsam" was reproached with the fact that their car twenty years ago was 80 percent automated and computerized. It was to the credit of Mi-28 that it was controlled and will be controlled by two crew members, and not some kind of automation. But it is clear that the wars of the future are not the battles of human masses and not the fights of individual types of equipment, but the battles of systems and combat complexes. And the sixth generation air fighters are likely to be unmanned aerial vehicles. Not in the United States or in any of the NATO countries, but in the USSR, they took the first step in this direction by trying to create a partly robotic combat helicopter. One detail. The “brain” of the Ka-50 remembered the flight route, and if the pilot lost the ability to control the helicopter, the car would turn around and return to the base automatically. Instead of concentrating all efforts on creating the equipment for the maximum automatic control of the Ka-50 helicopter, the money was given to the usual two-seat “hunter”.

Charter to prove to the military completely obvious truths about the prospects for the development of military helicopter, Sergei Mikheyev agreed to make a double version of the Black Shark - Ka-52 Alligator. And it turned out a miracle machine. Ka-52 embodies so many domestic know-how, which is not even on the best NATO helicopters. The Alligator has the most powerful missile and artillery weapons complex in the world. It has excellent optoelectronic and radar flight and fire control systems. It has the most modern satellite navigation and closed telecode communication channels. He has excellent computer software. He, oddly enough, long before the "Night Hunter" was fully adapted to flying at night and, most importantly, to the conduct of the night war. Mi-28H is still just "learning." Today, the Ka-52 is the only combat helicopter in the world equipped with an optical-electronic protection system against all types of man-portable air defense systems. To bring down the "Stinger" "Alligator" is almost impossible. He has many other highlights.

Hush up and continue to have such a wonderful fighting vehicle in Russia would be simply indecent. However, it is not necessary to build a particularly optimistic illusion about the prospect of the mass entry of the Ka-52 into the combat structure of army aviation. Too good this car ...


Logically, the fleet of combat helicopters of the Russian Army should be single Ka-50 fighters, increasingly turning into flying robots, and command Ka-52 of the same type capable of independent war. The Defense Ministry decided otherwise. The basis of army aviation will be obsolete Mi-28H. “Alligators” will be given some kind of auxiliary role and will be hidden in the very Far East. But the time will come - they will close it in the womb of the Mistral.


Impact force Black Ghost


K-50 - helicopter, ahead of its time. Conceived a quarter of a century ago and made its first flight at the beginning of the 80, it is still the best combat helicopter in the world to this day. Ka-50 - a machine with a difficult and difficult fate. So many innovative solutions in one project does not know история create military equipment. And even the main customers of the battlefield helicopter - the military - did not believe that, to the limit, a machine automated and controlled by only one pilot could be so reliable, efficient and unpretentious. Designers of the company "Kamov" intuitively reached the level of the XXI century.
The general designer of the helicopter Sergey Mikheev tells about the history of the helicopter and the undercurrents that preceded it. All that the leading world companies are now laying into the design of the latest combat helicopters is powerful cab booking, ejection seat, night vision equipment, a complex for the long-range detection of targets and automatic fire control, the use of high-precision weapons - all this and much more was provided for at Ka-50 initially.
The further development of the design, the Ka-52 two-seat helicopter, was the next step. The attacking helicopters received their "conductor", capable of distributing targets, driving cars to them, and interacting with ground forces.

Author:
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72 comments
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  1. omsbon
    omsbon April 6 2013 09: 05 New
    38
    You feel pride and joy when looking at this MIRACLE, but it is worth remembering the number of fools and outright traitors in our governing bodies and it is not very joyful.
    1. vadimus
      vadimus April 6 2013 10: 16 New
      +9
      So if they can, then they want to! Unique car!
    2. self-propelled
      self-propelled April 6 2013 10: 22 New
      26
      beautiful and bewitching car! in a word PREDATOR
    3. baltika-18
      baltika-18 April 6 2013 10: 35 New
      11
      Quote: omsbon
      You feel pride and joy when looking at this MIRACLE,

      That's about it, you're right.
      Вертолёты вообще это моя слабость,а особенно без ума от соосной "камовской" схемы.
      By 2020, it is planned to supply 180 units of Ka-52 and 167 Mi-28N to the troops.
      Approximately equal amount. Personally, I would prefer the Ka-52.
    4. StolzSS
      StolzSS April 6 2013 11: 29 New
      14
      You say the matter, comrade. It is a pity there is no recruitment into the national teams to shoot enemies of the people and traitors ...
      1. broker
        broker April 9 2013 17: 05 New
        +1
        Soon, do not worry)))
        1. wolk71
          wolk71 April 13 2013 07: 50 New
          0
          Fishing has already begun
    5. aksakal
      aksakal April 6 2013 11: 52 New
      11
      Quote: omsbon
      but it is worth remembering the number of fools and outright traitors in our governing bodies and it does not become very joyful.
      - There are more fools and corrupt officials than traitors ... Although the harm from such a corruption action is no less than from treason. Where's the VAF? I want to refute the Sabzh from him -)))
      1. Skiff-2
        Skiff-2 April 6 2013 16: 23 New
        +6
        I had a conversation with aviators in the middle of the zero about the fate of the Ka-50 and Mi-28. To my question, what I needed more -Mi 28, - but why, because the Shark is clearly better? - because it takes a lot of time to retrain pilots, it’s long and expensive, and on the 28th you can immediately land from the 24th. It was in 2005, there was little money in the treasury, the law on the separation of the product was only repealed ... Maybe these considerations were the reason for the rejection of the Sharks, but if the industry sways and their heads brighten (for which there is hope), then the Sharks can return in an updated form as the main fighter, and the built Mi-28 can be offered for export. The proceeds from export funds to start up the construction of new Sharks (the cost is probably less, and pilots as much as half). I understand corruption, lobbyism, but then Shoigu and Rogozin. The best should come into service.
        1. Mikhado
          Mikhado April 6 2013 17: 58 New
          +8
          Quote: Skif-2

          I had a conversation with aviators in the middle of the zero about the fate of the Ka-50 and Mi-28. To my question, what I needed more -Mi 28, - but why, because the Shark is clearly better? - because it takes a lot of time to retrain pilots, it’s long and expensive, and on the 28th you can immediately land from the 24th. It was in 2005, there was little money in the treasury, the law on the separation of the product was only repealed ... Maybe these considerations were the reason for the rejection of the Sharks, but if the industry sways and their heads brighten (for which there is hope), then the Sharks can return in an updated form as the main fighter, and the built Mi-28 can be offered for export. The proceeds from export funds to start up the construction of new Sharks (the cost is probably less, and pilots as much as half). I understand corruption, lobbyism, but then Shoigu and Rogozin. The best should come into service.

          Already 30 years of this dispute, there are really no winners, but our country and the army have lost.
          He is an admirer of Kamovites and Sharks, but the situation with the overwhelming of the blades of the coaxial is still unclear how serious it is. On the 28th, the overload damping system is again in the fall - and it works, the recent accident showed it, the pilots are safe.
          I am not special, in my opinion, I need to take both - each on its own theater, the ka-50 in the South in the mountains is ideal with its own scheme.
          1. Svyatoslav72
            Svyatoslav72 April 7 2013 14: 57 New
            +3
            Так и есть, Ми-28 это сухопутчик, поддержка над полем боя, группами. Ка-52 прибрежная/морская и горная машина, в основном парами. У них(Ка-52 и Ми-28) есть свои задачи, только вот что-то плохо Ми-28 до ума доводят, никто не напрягает разрабов и технарей, РЛС "Арбалет" вообще надо над лопастями "размазать" а они его шаром сверху ляпают. Ракет больше пихать управляемых, и двигло более шустрое ставить.
          2. Avenger711
            Avenger711 April 7 2013 15: 21 New
            +5
            As much as cutting down the tail boom with a classic.
            1. Raven1972
              Raven1972 April 7 2013 21: 41 New
              +4
              In the classics, this happens much more often - the blades will be more authentic ... But most importantly - if the coaxial loses its tail, this practically does not affect its characteristics, it basically does not matter whether it is there or not)))
              1. Avenger711
                Avenger711 April 12 2013 17: 39 New
                0
                Co-aligners always have a developed tail assembly to ensure directional stability, but of course, they will not fall from shooting the tail.
          3. Raven1972
            Raven1972 April 7 2013 21: 35 New
            +4
            I answer about the overlap of the blades - these are isolated cases that occur when the rotor does not gain momentum with a sharp gust of crosswind, in all other situations it is impossible to overlap ... Dad worked on Kamov helicopters all his life, because I know this topic pretty well ... By the way, the same Mi quite often cut the tail boom, but for some reason they prefer to keep quiet ....
          4. Corsair
            Corsair April 10 2013 16: 38 New
            0
            Quote: Mikhado
            you need to take both - each on its own theater
            Fair! Let them complement each other. Moreover, MI24, the progenitor of 28, will gradually leave the stage ...
  2. svp67
    svp67 April 6 2013 09: 07 New
    10
    Классная статья. "Девяностые и нулевые" еще долго нам будут "вспоминаться"...
  3. Romn
    Romn April 6 2013 09: 25 New
    17
    Many thanks to all the people who participated in the development of this miracle, it pleases that such a machine appeared in Russia!
  4. Fox
    Fox April 6 2013 09: 32 New
    11
    So who made this wonderful film! And yet, I also don’t quite understand: why the hell is a shark co-pilot?
    1. Colonel
      Colonel April 6 2013 09: 44 New
      11
      The merit of the Mi-28 was that it was controlled and will be controlled by two crew members, and not some automation there
      Here is the answer to your question. lol
    2. vladsolo56
      vladsolo56 April 6 2013 09: 49 New
      18
      Do not say why, for example, on a Su-25 attack aircraft, one pilot can fulfill the tasks, but absolutely not on a helicopter. the insanity of some experts has no limit.
      1. Nick
        Nick April 7 2013 17: 03 New
        +2
        Quote: vladsolo56
        why, for example, on a Su-25 attack plane, one pilot can complete the tasks, but absolutely not on a helicopter.

        Well, firstly, the machines are completely different, and secondly, the tasks are different. Therefore, to perform a different range of tasks on different machines, a different number of crew is required. Everything is simple.
        1. vladsolo56
          vladsolo56 April 8 2013 13: 22 New
          +1
          but more specifically?
          1. Nick
            Nick April 8 2013 19: 56 New
            +1
            Quote: vladsolo56
            but more specifically?

            I simplify it. For example, you need to dig a pit in 10 days. To complete the task, you can use one excavator with an excavator, or one hundred excavators with shovels.
            Complicating. If the task is to lay down a brick wall in the same 10 days, with a volume of one hundred cubic meters, then neither diggers nor an excavator will help here. In this case, five masons and three assistants are required.
            Conclusion, you can not compare incomparable things, horseradish with a finger or a plane with a helicopter, they are designed for different needs.
          2. Avenger711
            Avenger711 April 12 2013 17: 44 New
            0
            Apparently because a helicopter with a tail rotor is very difficult to control.
  5. evgenii67
    evgenii67 April 6 2013 09: 38 New
    +8
    Hello everyone! Thanks to the author! If not for the 90s with all that it implies sad
  6. avt
    avt April 6 2013 09: 48 New
    11
    It’s a pity that they leaked a fifty dollars. request
    1. baltika-18
      baltika-18 April 6 2013 10: 38 New
      11
      Quote: avt
      It’s a pity that fifty dollars leaked

      Of course it’s a pity, but there is no silver lining, 52 has turned out even better.
      There’s nothing to cover the opponents with. In modern conditions it’s the perfect attack helicopter.
      1. queen
        queen April 6 2013 13: 03 New
        +3
        Quote: baltika-18
        In today's conditions it’s the perfect attack helicopter

        It’s possible to argue as a full-fledged strike, but the pilot’s review is not very good, and it’s not for nothing that the tandem scheme is used all over the world. The Mi-28N is preferable in this. It’s a good option as a marine option.
      2. luiswoo
        luiswoo April 6 2013 13: 32 New
        11
        Отнюдь - уход от концепции "умного вертолёта" (раз второго пилота влипили), ухудшение бронирования кабины и обзора из-за посадки экипажа - не есть гуд.
        In any case, the Ka-50 was a full-fledged attack aircraft, when compared with aircraft. And what is Ka-52 is not entirely clear to me. It does not look like a full replacement, they look like cars of a completely different class.
        1. SerAll
          SerAll April 6 2013 19: 42 New
          +6
          I hope that prudence will take its toll and we will see the KA-50M with 8 computers (with a reserve) and all 8 nuclear computers .... for a long time it’s time for us to buy AMD corporation with giblets ... And then this military technique is idle ... .
  7. lechatormosis
    lechatormosis April 6 2013 09: 52 New
    10
    Yes, I absolutely agree with the author. I NEED ADVERTISING not just weapons but ADVERTISING capabilities of our military-industrial complex.
    And this must be done constantly and everywhere - our competitors will do EVERYTHING TO Drown our military-industrial complex.
  8. Nayhas
    Nayhas April 6 2013 10: 22 New
    28
    Для тех кто опять проклинает "проклятые 90-е" хочу напомнить, что Ка-50 должны были принять на вооружение ещё во второй половине 80-х годов, но благодаря КБ Миля, а именно г-ну Вайнбергу, который используя свои связи в МО всячески проталкивал своё УГ Ми-28 и откровенно срывал начало производства Ка-50 этот вопрос и затянулся до тех самых "проклятых 90-х". А про то как пропихивали Ми-28Н вообще отдельная история полная идиотизма, казнокрадства и очковтирательства...
    PS: I can’t but admit that the Ka-50 was a qualitative leap forward in the 80s, it was a design feat of the Kamov design bureau team, this is the case when the car was ahead of its time ...
  9. krest.ros
    krest.ros April 6 2013 11: 28 New
    -2
    Some names are not Russian and illogical. It was necessary to give these birds a name appropriate and native.
  10. Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya April 6 2013 11: 34 New
    +4
    It's time to change the fleet! I hope that the Kamovs will serially join the troops!
  11. Doctor Evil
    Doctor Evil April 6 2013 12: 18 New
    +6
    В качестве авиагруппы Ка-52 на "Мистрале" на мой взгляд -лучший вариант.
    1. Zerstorer
      Zerstorer April 7 2013 11: 33 New
      +5
      Цитата: Доктор Зло
      В качестве авиагруппы Ка-52 на "Мистрале" на мой взгляд -лучший вариант.

      Well, the question is that Mistral is not the best option.
      1. queen
        queen April 7 2013 12: 48 New
        +2
        Цитата: Доктор Зло
        that Mistral is not the best option

        There is no argument that it’s not the best, now there’s nowhere to go.
  12. Dimka off
    Dimka off April 6 2013 12: 35 New
    0
    I hope that the Kamov and Milevsky helicopters will be actively taken into service!))
  13. Slavs
    Slavs April 6 2013 13: 58 New
    16
    A year and a half ago, I commented on an article on the discontinuation of the Ka-50 ... I read this article and repeat - sabotage and betrayal .... With .... ki ...
  14. rudolff
    rudolff April 6 2013 14: 24 New
    18
    Yet the claim that the Ka-52 is even better than the Ka-50 is probably not entirely correct. Ergonomics of the dashboard of a single cab is still better than a double. No need to duplicate devices or distribute them half a meter from each other. It is easier to make an armored capsule for a single cabin than quite spacious on the Ka-52. Yes, and it will be easier. Viewing the right hemisphere in a pilot will be difficult due to the presence of a second crew member nearby. The bailout on the Ka-52 should be carried out almost simultaneously at the same time for both seats. It is hard to imagine how a machine will behave after shooting all the screws, and if someone hesitates, it can become fatal. Ka-52 is certainly a cool car, but it seems to me to put an end to the Shark in a hurry. If you repeat it now, but in some new form, using new materials, equipment, weapons, you could get an unrivaled fighter.
    1. Zerstorer
      Zerstorer April 7 2013 11: 35 New
      +3
      Quote: rudolff
      If you repeat it now, but in some new form, using new materials, equipment, weapons, you could get an unrivaled fighter.

      All for only!
  15. FunkschNNX
    FunkschNNX April 6 2013 14: 31 New
    +9
    Политика - грязное дело. Не даром профессия политика по древности и мерзости соперничает с "древнейшей профессией".
    1. Raphael_83
      Raphael_83 April 7 2013 20: 51 New
      +4
      And when politics mixes with the country's defense and its security (especially supported by monetary incentives), this is not even death, it is simply a disaster.
      Наглядный пример вреда политического лоббирования в "оборонке": спор между М-16 и Ар-18 (хотя последняя гораздо надежнее) в 60-х и нынешние истребители 5-го поколения Ф-22/Ф-35 (до таких масштабов нае**тельства бюджета далеко даже Сердюкову сотоварищи).
  16. gych
    gych April 6 2013 14: 40 New
    +6
    wow beast! tank with a propeller!
  17. Avenger711
    Avenger711 April 6 2013 15: 55 New
    +2
    Logically, the fleet of combat helicopters of the Russian Army should be single Ka-50 fighters, increasingly turning into flying robots, and command Ka-52 of the same type capable of independent war. The Defense Ministry decided otherwise. The basis of army aviation will be obsolete Mi-28H. “Alligators” will be given some kind of auxiliary role and will be hidden in the very Far East. But the time will come - they will close it in the womb of the Mistral.


    In terms of the ratio of ordered machines, the picture is still reversed and, moreover, the Mi-28N has big problems, if they cannot be built more than 10 units a year, either upgrade the lines in Rostov or the Mi-28N will gradually lose the numerical advantage gained due to the early start of production .
  18. lazy
    lazy April 6 2013 16: 17 New
    +5
    про фильм, даже сейчас он смотриться неплохо, лучще чем про "саблезубого"


    (рекалама су), у меня неоднозначное решения по поводу катапультируемых кресел, с учётом опыта чечени когда полёт идёт "ДЕРЕВЬЯ, ПТИЦЫ, ПРОВОДА", у лётчика просто не останется времени на катапультирование ,про ми-28 то проблемы с композитным несущим винтом, и отдачеей от пушки в боковой прекции(по члухам досьоверность не гарантирую), и то что ка-52 стали вооружать не только ВВО но и ЮВО говорит о многом в пользу к-52
  19. Alikovo
    Alikovo April 6 2013 16: 55 New
    +2
    I need to buy more
    1. Artmark
      Artmark April 6 2013 23: 55 New
      +2
      I agree with you and it is still necessary that such beauties strengthen the military base of Armenia! drinks hi
  20. Avenger711
    Avenger711 April 6 2013 17: 24 New
    -1
    Milevtsy designed a helicopter with better armor protection and more powerful engines, which, according to their application, could also carry a compartment of fighters in its womb. They won. So the famous Mi-24 appeared. Only because of his heaviness, he could not carry the squad of fighters - instead, a mechanic was sitting in the compartment, who, when Afghanistan happened, died simply for the company - with the pilot and navigator. The fact that instead of the BMP turned out to be a flying triple tank did not bother the military. And how could it be embarrassing if in the seventies such a combat helicopter was not in any NATO army?


    Если быть совсем точным, то милевцы тогда рискнули положиться на еще не существующий ТВ3-117, который, как известно, не то, что пошел в серию, но можно сказать стал легендарным. Камовский вариант ЕМНИП предполагал движок в 900 л. с. Военные в общем-то получили именно то, что они заказывали, летающий бронированный сарай с пушкой и ракетами, который полностью зафейлил свою концепцию, неудивительно, что нигде в мире такого больше, не было, там было лучше, например "Кобра". Как бы меня не бесил Ми-24 претензий к конструкторам у меня нет, претензии у меня к безмозглям генералам. Победил бы камовский вариант, был бы просто вооруженный транспортник вроде Ка-29.

    For nearly two months, the helicopter group, under the cover of strict secrecy, worked in the interests of the Joint Group of Federal Forces in Chechnya.


    EMNIP even on ORT there was news about the arrival, what secrecy is there.
  21. Avenger711
    Avenger711 April 6 2013 17: 24 New
    +4
    Even on the pages of a very patriotic newspaper, there was a "solid" round table called "Pilot and Helicopter". The purpose of the crowning is to fill the Ka-50 with mud so that there is no bright place left.


    To which a very weighty answer was given:
    http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=31828

    The helicopter, no matter how beautiful it is, is very vulnerable. And knock down the same "shark" is not difficult. But this is the case if we are guided by the instructions that were written in the middle of the last century.


    When they wrote Sharia, they didn’t put mines on the roads, Fatima, go ahead!
    Если вернуться назад в 50-60-ые, то произошел резкий рост скоростей реактивной авиации и ушли в прошлое реликты Второй мировой, в результате оказалось, что для МЗА просто нет работы, соответственно она начала вымирать, но свято место пусто не бывает, началось вооружение вертолетов, которые в условиях отсутствия ПВО ближнего радиуса действия начали весьма серьезно нагибать. Гусеничным и танкообразным это не понравились, и они начали заводить друзей вроде "Шилки". Если Ил-2 в свое время получал в каждом втором вылете повреждения, то оснащенные современной электроникой и радарами зенитки оказались куда суровей. Обнаруженный вертолет стал нежилец. ИМБУ понерфили радикально, и ей пришлось придумывать, как жить дальше, в итоге в США разведку стали вести маленькие "кайовы", попробовали так же разработать стелс-вертолет, разведывательно-ударный LHX. Как известно, LHX завершилась пшиком пресловутый RAH-66 (R-разведывательно), появившись в 100500 играх на компе, так и не поступил на вооружение. О причинах этого сказать ничего не могу, но, по крайней мере, в США осознавали проблему и пытались ее решить. Проблему осознавали и в КБ Камова, Ка-50 изначально должен был работать под управлением воздушного КП, которым в идеале должен был стать Ка-52. Попутно решалась задача контроля группы вертолетов, которая проявляется уже на уровне звена. Освободив второго пилота от управлением оружием, стало возможным нагрузить его задачами управления.

    Actually, my sharp rejection of the Mi-28 is largely due to the fact that it’s not just a helicopter, it’s an outdated concept back in the 70s that copes with gangs and missions in 2-4 cars, but is doomed to defeat when meeting with adequate air defense.

    Борьба Ка-50 и Ми-28 это борьба не вертолетов разных классов, а борьба концепций. Ка-52 это не более чем компромисс, когда машинка формально двухместна, и используется, как Ми-24, но в вертолете есть еще кто-то, чтобы вертеть башкой и смотреть на индикаторы тактической обстановки. При желании можно перейти в режим "стая акул и командир", но потери в экипажах будут больше, чем при использовании Ка-50, и сами вертолеты с просаженными ТТХ. На Ми-28, насколько я понимаю, такое невозможно в принципе, там второй пилот не более чем приставка к пушке и ракетам.
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas April 6 2013 19: 33 New
      +7
      Борьба концепций это только видимая часть борьбы за заказ. Думаю в МО СССР сами не осознавали как будут применять ударный вертолёт. Чисто моё мнение Камовцы рискнули и несколько отошли от ТТЗ, а Милевцы сделали всё "по бумажка", этакий наш ответ на Апач. Описаная вами концепция очень хорошо прослеживается в эволюции того же Апача. Сначала американцы пришли к тактике Апач+Кайова, потом Апач+Апач Лонгбоу, потом из-за того, что денег навалом остался один Апач Лонгбоу, сейчас же это видоизменилось в Апач Лонгбоу+БПЛА. Самое интересное в том, что реально сейчас на Апаче один человек уже откровенно лишний, уровень техники позволяет объединить функции "пилот" и "оператор" в одном лице. Переход от Ка-50 к Ка-52 был шаг назад, но опять же это показатель того какой резерв по модернизации заложили изначально в Ка-50!
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 April 6 2013 20: 25 New
        +2
        The question is whether this allows the helicopter circuit, although if it is automated so that the helicopter is fully held and the pilot is not engaged in the fact that he constantly worked with all limbs.

        I didn’t see TTZ for helicopters, I can’t say what was written there, but on the one hand it’s clear that for the Mi-24 nothing has changed in tactics, and on the other the Kamovites could make a counter offer, in the end the number of nishtyaks that promises elimination of the 2nd pilot is very large.
        1. Raphael_83
          Raphael_83 April 7 2013 21: 14 New
          +3
          About concepts, can I?
          The Ka-50 is a unique vehicle primarily by NATO standards. The fact is that in the United States (and their hangers-on, respectively), the division of attack helicopters (clean, not multifunctional) into two categories is accepted:
          - вертолеты-"киллеры" - прародителем считается "индеец" - низкоскоростные, низколетящие машины, работающие преимущественно на высотах ниже радиолокационного горизонта (со следованием по рельефу) с применением в первую очередь управляемого ракетного вооружения, примеры: Апач - Хеллфайр, Тигр - Тригат, Руивалк;
          - вертолеты-"охотники" - машины легкого/среднего класса, предназначенные для непосредственной поддержки пехтуры, обладающие преимущественными летными характеристиками перед летающими "танками": Кобра/СиКобра/СуперКобра, Газель, Мангуста.
          Так вот "Акула" с равным успехом воплощает в себе обе эти концепции и весьма успешно, при этом по огневой мощи она превосходит все, что имеется у "западников" (у всех НАТОвских машин противотанковых подвесок 4*4, итого 16, в то время как у "Акулы" - 16 "Вихрей" по умолчанию, не считая неуправляемого оружия).
          Was it worth it, if not technically, but certainly morally and conceptually outdated MI-28, as Avenger711 rightly noted, to refuse such a machine? hi
  22. Avenger711
    Avenger711 April 6 2013 17: 24 New
    +3
    It’s hard to say how, but the NGS convinced that the Ka-50 is a very bad helicopter


    The BMPD blog discussed this issue, they described the condition of the clockwork for the 2005th year, as a very thick polar fox, since this plant does not produce anything else, this is not surprising, that is, there was no choice, and the old junk had to be changed at least for something, I don’t know, they launched a small Ka-52 series only to save the plant, or someone really convinced someone (maybe as an experiment), but 7 years passed and the Mi-28N was already on the sidelines order volume, and Rostov for some reason drives a series of 49 Mi-35s. However, here the explanation seems simple, as I already wrote with the release of the Mi-28N there are problems.

    Strange as it may seem, long before the “Night Hunter” he was fully adapted to flying at night and, most importantly, to waging a night war.


    No, there were only models. True, the Ka-52 in the end put everything declared, but the Mi-28 is still putting radars on a vibration stand.
  23. rudolff
    rudolff April 6 2013 18: 22 New
    +2
    A radar sub-sleeve antenna was placed on the vibration stand. Not nasal. A la, we want to be like Long Bow! But is it so important where it will be located with the possibility of external target designation? Again, the issue of the concept of the use of impact turntables. Single fighters or elements of balanced strike groups.
  24. Concept1
    Concept1 April 6 2013 19: 51 New
    +1
    There were a lot of graters and disputes! As a result, we have two beautiful helicopters in service.
    But the KA-52 is still better !!!
  25. saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm April 6 2013 19: 53 New
    +1
    I would like to add that the Kamovtsy and the cabin did not bad, it remains to develop decent weapons, I hope Hermes and others do not let us down, the main thing is that the bureaucrats would not get underfoot.
    And I also wanted to ask, dear industrialists, do not crash the whole helicopter in a wired matte color and the nose in shiny blue, let it be all protective matte, thankful in advance, I hope to hear.
  26. vostok1982
    vostok1982 April 6 2013 20: 20 New
    +6
    This helicopter is as if it came from the future. No one has anything like it close.
  27. awerkiev
    awerkiev April 6 2013 20: 50 New
    +4
    Here he is handsome !!! Mesmerizing ...
  28. Marconi41
    Marconi41 April 7 2013 02: 40 New
    0
    В чем то аппоненты "Акулы" были и правы. Не вспомню на какой выставке вооружения К-50 очень незавидно "косякнулся", не смог поразить ни одной мишени. Потом говорили о каких то сбоях в системах и т.д. А Алигатор все же 2х местный и наверное лучше Акулы. Хотя чисто внешне К-50 выглядит эффектнее!
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 April 7 2013 03: 13 New
      +2
      And struck 99 others. Conclusion?
  29. Argon
    Argon April 7 2013 04: 56 New
    +5
    Внимательно ознакомившись с комментариями еще раз пришел к выводу смертную казнь в россии отменили не зря.Ну слишком много у нас народу эмоционального,все враги предатели в лучшем случае взяточники. Думаю надо взглянуть на ситуацию глазами заказчика т.е МО.Ка-50 а начать надо именно с него,был и остается частью комплекса.Представьте, МО хотели просто поменять платформу,на аналогичную с увеличением параметров ТТХ в 0.8-1.5 раза.А им предлагают поменять весь комплекс т.е инфраструктуру, методику обучения,прозрачно намекая,что воюють они както не так,а вот так будет лучше.Ссылаясь на какие то расчеты.Причем новый комплекс имеет более дорогую автоматизированную платформу.А реакция на упоминание о автоматическом прицельно-навигационном комплексе вызывало резкое фу,в МО прекрасно помнили как 15 лет доводили АПРНК"Пума"потеряли 20испытателей[Су-24],каких денег стране стоил АПРНК"Кайра"[МиГ-27]исправно работавший раз в году а остальное время прилежно регулируемый зачастую с привлечением заводских специалистов,и так и не доведенный.Один пример вся навигация Ка-50приемник"Абрис" работает с системой"ГЛОНАСС"где была эта система вконце80х?она функционирует тока с2009г.Ми-28изначально проэктировался с бортовой РЛС которая давала возможность автономно решать массу задач от навигации до БП.Всеэлементы не сущей системы проэктировались на основе 24ки.Вообщем ситуация складывалась"Лучшее враг хорошего".Устраивались конкурсы чо лучше-Запорожец или Волга с автоматом.Время шло, а новой машины в серии не бало.Да простит меня уважаемый Сергей Викторович-человек огромной воли и целиустремленности,в той ситуации я бы Акулу прикрыл.Слишком велик уровень технического риска.Но жизнь не стоит на месте,раз мы выпускали 3 основных танка,2истребителя-бомбардировщика,и страну проср....Надо хоть индустрию сохранить-отказ от любой из машин ведет к потере предприятия носителя технологии,что не допустимо.Считаю,что нынешнее"Cоломоново решение"-как временное верно-вгорах летает Ка(Краснодар 11бортов пока) в степях (Волгоград,Каспийск)Ми.Соотношение вцелом 1Ка-3Ми
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 April 7 2013 22: 14 New
      0
      CMIIW, но ЕМНИП на той же Шри-Ланке МиГ-27К применялись для наведения менее продвинутых машин во время гражданской войны. Вряд ли там "Кайру" обслуживали продвинутые спецы. Хотя разработка более простой модификации МиГ-27 говорит о многом.
  30. Zomanus
    Zomanus April 7 2013 08: 50 New
    +2
    Great article. At the expense of shooting can be unnecessary. Simply exposing the shores as bewildered will suffice. And so a bunch of Sharks is seen running an Alligator in the mountains. And let the hunter work on the plain. Under the gaze of the same Alligator. Correctly, the article says, our generals all think in terms of the scale of armored armadas rushing to the English Channel. Maybe Serdyukov did the right thing to cut them. It just had to be done with a replacement. We really did .. if all the achievements of the Great Patriotic War, Afghanistan and the Chechen wars.
  31. Xroft
    Xroft April 7 2013 10: 33 New
    +1
    Well, let's believe in the best, all the same, they bought them, the pilots will get a new technology, they will start using it, learning how to use it effectively, it would be better if this happened 20 years ago, but now they are still ahead of time. they didn’t forget, but began to actively use at least in exercises
  32. Const
    Const April 7 2013 12: 01 New
    +1
    Предлагаю, как обычно, понастроить и продать в соседние страны. Особенно в Китай побольше, и ведь их ещё скопировать нужно. В прибалтику в качестве гуманитарной помощи, им тоже "Нато". А потом ведро с помоями на голову и в цирк клоунами, потому что после всего этого нормальными нас никто считать не будет.
  33. Krapovy32
    Krapovy32 April 7 2013 13: 30 New
    +7
    Кто видел как работает К50 в боевых условиях , тот никогда не забудет этого зрелища . Возмездие с неба для "бородатых" good
  34. Banzai
    Banzai April 7 2013 15: 19 New
    +3
    it is all described in one simple and terrible word - sabotage
  35. crambol
    crambol April 7 2013 15: 52 New
    0
    Quote: Argon
    ... in that situation, I would cover the Shark


    Lord How familiar is this strangulation of a competitor, especially if you have a little more power!
    А насчет "ябы Акулу прикрыл", так, как известно, бодливой корове бог рог не дает.
    1. Zerstorer
      Zerstorer April 7 2013 17: 09 New
      0
      Quote: crambol
      Lord How familiar is this strangulation of a competitor, especially if you have a little more power!
      А насчет "ябы Акулу прикрыл", так, как известно, бодливой корове бог рог не дает.

      So he kind of wrote about MO.
  36. galiullinrasim
    galiullinrasim April 7 2013 19: 18 New
    0
    I don’t agree with the statement that it’s hard to retrain for example if you drive a lock and then do not sit down 600 geldings you will study for a long time.
  37. super-vitek
    super-vitek April 7 2013 22: 24 New
    +3
    Интересно что за м.....к минус статье поставил!?За что интересно?Машина просто "пушка-бомба!Рьяный поклонник данной машины!!!
  38. super-vitek
    super-vitek April 7 2013 22: 26 New
    0
    I wonder what kind of m .... to put a minus to the article!? For what? The pinwheel is amazing, both externally and in terms of its performance characteristics!
  39. Lieutenant colonel
    Lieutenant colonel April 8 2013 02: 56 New
    +2
    I’ll insert my five kopecks - in 2001 I saw this picture - with the lead Ka-25, followed by the 50th, completes the procession of the 24th and this whole covalcade goes towards the mountains. Before that (about a day), the pilots arrived at the RIAC (it was in the village in the south of the country) and asked for targets on the plain and motionless - we were somewhat surprised and puzzled. And for some reason 50s stood in the parking lots of the explosives and guarded their explosives ?!
    Но это предисловие. Считаю что комплекс Ка-50,52 идеален для морской пехоты (создания авиации непосредственной огневой поттдержки высадки десанта). Для ВДВ конечно не совсем то - но и там их можно использовать как "карманную" авиацию командующего ВДВ при условии увеличения возможностей ВТА по подьёму войск. Ми-28 - как основной ударный вертолёт сухопутных войск. Про 24-ку автор несовсем прав - отделение пехоты он берёт и огневые задачи пехота с борта вертолёта может решать - но только на западном ТВД с приимущественно небольшими высотами. В горах он конечно не способен так "работать". Нельзя закрывать путь в небо ни одному из вертолётов. У каждого отличного верталёта - что Ми-28н что комплекса Ка-50/52 своя ниша на поле боя. Ми-28н отлично смотрелся бы в вертолётном батальоне ОМСБр/ТБр. В ОМСБр горных Ка-50/52 и в виде авиации МП и ВДВ.
  40. washi
    washi April 9 2013 11: 39 New
    +2
    Quote: Skif-2
    I had a conversation with aviators in the middle of the zero about the fate of the Ka-50 and Mi-28. To my question, what I needed more -Mi 28, - but why, because the Shark is clearly better? - because it takes a lot of time to retrain pilots, it’s long and expensive, and on the 28th you can immediately land from the 24th. It was in 2005, there was little money in the treasury, the law on the separation of the product was only repealed ... Maybe these considerations were the reason for the rejection of the Sharks, but if the industry sways and their heads brighten (for which there is hope), then the Sharks can return in an updated form as the main fighter, and the built Mi-28 can be offered for export. The proceeds from export funds to start up the construction of new Sharks (the cost is probably less, and pilots as much as half). I understand corruption, lobbyism, but then Shoigu and Rogozin. The best should come into service.

    The best option has already been tested in the Caucasus - one 52 as a designator and PU, with it 2-3 50s. Savings and money (50th cheaper)
    28th will be useful for the steppes of Kazakhstan, European plains, deserts of Central Asia or the prairies of the United States
  41. Shtyn dwarf
    Shtyn dwarf April 9 2013 14: 29 New
    0
    Объясните дилетанту. Вот наступил момент когда деньги на вооружение стали выделятся. Казалось бы должны появиться Ка50, но вместо него вроде как массово должны вводиться Ка52 (позиционируется как развитие Ка50). Для меня это какой то неубедительный аргумент - какое это развитие? То что пилот добавился и машину переделали в другой класс? Такое ощущение, что просто концепция "вертолет-один пилот" оказалась провальной. И просто решили выкрутиться таким образом - друг над другом пилотов уже не разместишь - а пошире кабину сделать можно вполне. И если это так, то всетаки почему пилотов в вертолете должно быть 2-а, хотя в свмолетах и 1-го хватает (например Су-24) ?
    1. Svyatoslav72
      Svyatoslav72 April 9 2013 16: 24 New
      -1
      1. There isn’t enough money for everyone, so they won’t buy everything they need. 2.Ka-50 or Ka-52? These are attack and attack helicopters, they must strike on the spot and not from the bushes, this is all good and relaxed in the movies. One pilot either flies well but lacks him for shooting and the other shoots well, but he lacks for flight. As a result, they cannot act fully, make decisions either to blame or to blame. Excitement is contagious, you can not calculate with a maneuver or get carried away by shooting. Since the machine will operate under fire, two pilots are more likely not to lose the crew and the car, the more one keeps track of the other leads, can change. According to the creator, on the Ka-50, an extra-class pilot should fly, the cost of the pilot himself is twice as much as the helicopter itself. AND! It’s difficult, expensive, and expensive to recruit and teach. 3. What is the difference between the Su-24 and the Ka-50, some shoot and shoot while flying past and the other fumbles along the front and flank, get into a heap and beat from any distance large-medium-near, maneuvers in the immediate vicinity of the mess.
  42. s500
    s500 April 9 2013 17: 27 New
    0
    Greetings, my friends, at least something new is entering the troops.
  43. redwar6
    redwar6 April 9 2013 21: 14 New
    0
    There is life in the old dog yet..
  44. vlad.1924
    vlad.1924 April 10 2013 11: 48 New
    -1
    Not the purchase of the Ka-50 for the Russian army is just a sabotage of officials from the Ministry of Defense ... And you do not need any Mi-28N flying coffins. Ka-50 easily deal with the American Apache and not only ... All of these sawmills of the Russian budget have already got ...
  45. penguin
    penguin April 10 2013 13: 07 New
    +2
    the helicopter is powerful but our fools are more powerful
  46. Max_Bauder
    Max_Bauder April 10 2013 16: 26 New
    0
    Всем "умникам" которые не в восторге от КА хочу сказать, когда их купят другие страны и ежели с ними случится конфликт, все оценят тогда насколько он (КА) хорошо убивает противников.

    У Наполеона есть фраза на все военные времена: "Страна которая не хочет кормить свою армию, вскоре должна будет кормить чужую"

    So do not be greedy and take this spacecraft, otherwise it will soak up MI with another flag on board.
  47. Ahello
    Ahello April 12 2013 18: 10 New
    0
    Помню, как впервые посмотрел фильм "Черная акула", так сразу и влюбился в этот вертолет) Насчет Ка-50 и -52... В военное время при достаточном количестве техники и больших боевых потерях технику восполнить легко, а вот квалифицированных пилотов на замену быстро подготовить трудно. Естественно, что в двухместном варианте потери могут быть больше.
  48. basmach
    basmach April 14 2013 22: 48 New
    +1
    В 1993г исполнялось 50 лет полка "Нормандия-Неман". Встреча проходила на базе нашего аэродрома в Воздвиженке ( сам полк "Нормандии" стоял в Галёнках и входил в нашу авиадивизию). На показ прилетал Ка-50 из Арсеньева. И это действительно "Акула"( он ещё и черный был) по сравнению с "Крокодилом"(Ми-24).Узкий,хищный,стремительный и манёвренный,он выделывал такие пируэты-что 24 и не снились. А по поводу второго члена экипажа ( как вооружейник)- а на кой чёрт он нужен. На 24 этот самый товарищ нужен был для управления пулемётом (Ми-24А и Ми-24В, на Ми-24П стоит пушка ГЩ-2-30) и для управления ПТУРами ( точно не помню, но кажется 9М114) по командной линии наведения( но это вчерашний день) Именно наличие электронного комплекса и позволяет решать комплекс сложных задач в минимальное время ( что жизненно важно для любого вертолёта, чем меньше ты в зоне поражения, тем больше шансов уцелеть)
  49. seller trucks
    seller trucks April 22 2013 16: 18 New
    0
    это конечно не преимущество, а скорее всего "понты", но КА 50/52 эта та машинка которая способна совершить "мертвую петлю" единственный вертолет в Мире! из боевых "понтов" это "воронка"

    PS. Messrs. forum users, unsubscribe, please. in PM, how can I embed a video / photo in a post
  50. Tommygun
    Tommygun April 25 2013 13: 44 New
    0
    Конкуренция между различными школами очень важна для создания адекватных образцов ВВТ. Поэтому считаю очень важным, что удалось сохранить и КБ Миля, и КБ Камова. Что касается подковерных интриг, они были всегда. Вспомните сколько машин "отлучили" от финансирования под давлением метра российской бомбардировочной авиации Туполева, или многолетнюю борьбу Омской, Харьковской и Уральской школ танкостроения. Сейчас мы наблюдаем создание корпораций: ОАК(под руководством "Сухого"), ОТК(под руководством УВЗ). С одной стороны это дает возможность объединить лучшие наработки всех школ в одном изделии, с другой устраняет внутреннюю конкуренцию. Нужна ли она сейчас, когда развита международная конкуренция? Вопрос не имеющий однозначного ответа. Конечно хотелось бы иметь по нескольку вариантов для выбора, однако затраты на ОПК, как были в Союзе, нам сейчас не посилам. А правильным ли путем мы движемся, покажет только время