Conversations with Timofey Panteleevich Punev. “No air force had a bomber similar to the Pe 2.”
I met Timofey Panteleevich Punev by chance. One of my friends somehow let out that she was acquainted with the wife of a military pilot who fought. "Fighting man," she warned me, "but he has temperament ... you will see."
So I was the owner of the phone, which immediately called. At my request to meet, Punev immediately agreed. “What are you Timofey Panteleevich fought on?” “On the" pawns ", on Pe-2". Good.
When meeting Punev immediately seized the initiative. “Yes, what I'm going to tell you, everything is already written. Read on, ”and he handed me a photocopy of some newspaper article. In order to respect the owner read. Between us, the article seemed to me frankly weak. It was written by some date and told about the pilots of the 36 Guards Orders of Suvorov and Kutuzov, the Berlin Bomber Regiment, full of phrases like "... showing unparalleled heroism ...", "... filling their hearts with hatred for the enemy ...", "... but nothing could stop the guards ... "etc. "Deputy political" crap.
“Well, how?” The owner asked me. “Weakly,” I replied diplomatically. “Rubbish,” said Punev, “the only thing that is good in this article is only that it tells about our children, otherwise it will take a little more time and they will forget about us in general.” "And you did not buy anything!" - He praised me - well, come on, ask your questions. I only ask you about one thing, let it be that without lies. ”
A conversation with Punev "captured" me right away, as it always happens when you have an intelligent, knowledgeable, subtle feeling and instantly reacting interlocutor. And Temperament, just like that, with a capital letter.
There was talk about the influence of temperament on his military career. When it came to awards, Punev said: “You know, I don’t have a single award for combat mission.” All my awards “according to the results of the combat period” are when the regiment is taken out for replenishment and re-formation, rewarding the survivors. I am so, if I hear any lies, I spoke immediately, regardless of rank and rank. All expressed in the face, even the chief of staff, even the deputy political director, even a member of the Military Council. Conflict was horror, what kind of awards here. I did not fight for them. And now I think, probably, I fought incorrectly. "
We met several times, the interview being published is the result of several meetings.
Curriculum Vitae: Timofey Panteleevich Punev. Born on August 2, 1922, in the village of Kugult (currently the Stavropol Territory). Father is a surgeon, mother is a paramedic. In 1940, immediately after the end of the decade in the village of Kugult, he entered the Krasnodar School of Military Pilots. Since 1942, at the front. He fought in the 1st separate squadron of high-speed bombers (Karelian Front) and in the 36th Guards Order of Suvorov and Kutuzov, the Berlin Bomber Regiment (1st Ukrainian Front). After the war, he held various positions in the regiments of the 4th Guards Bomber Aviation Corps and the 164th Guards aviation divisions. After the war, he actively flew an IL-28 bomber. Chevalier of many military orders and medals. Last position - chief of the air-rifle training regiment. In 1960, he retired from the armed forces, with the rank of lieutenant colonel. Currently lives in Stavropol.
I tried to preserve as much as possible the uniqueness of the speech of Timofey Panteleevich, a combat pilot, a soldier of the Great Patriotic War, who RIGHT fought.
Cadet Krasnodar flight school Punev. 1940 year.
The photo was taken in the studio of Krasnodar.
From the words of Punev, his mother, who came from Stavropol, visited him in 1940 year. The command of the school gave him six days of vacation (an incredible luxury for a cadet). During the holidays this photo was taken. The only vacation he had from 1940 to 1946 a year.
The photo was taken in the studio of Krasnodar.
From the words of Punev, his mother, who came from Stavropol, visited him in 1940 year. The command of the school gave him six days of vacation (an incredible luxury for a cadet). During the holidays this photo was taken. The only vacation he had from 1940 to 1946 a year.
A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, when and where did you start learning flight training?
T.P. In August 1940, I entered the Krasnodar Flight School.
With 4 class, I dreamed of becoming a pilot. Moreover, it was the pilot bomber. I remember, I just came from Stavropol, and graduates are so beautiful, in full dress, I opened my mouth with delight. Two hundred superhumans, well, I thought so then. Dark blue dress uniform - beauties, suitors, you can go blind.
When I enrolled, the Krasnodar Flight School prepared pilots for bomber aviation and should have had a normal three-year training period, however, our course was shortened and we had to become lieutenants in two years. We were only glad to this - a year less than the long-awaited “kubarey”.
We have just arrived, and have already seen ourselves as lieutenants — commanders of the Red Army. There was a cadet of former gunmen-radio operators in our detachment, he fought in Finnish, and he went to Moscow to receive the order of the Red Banner as a cadet. We had him as the commander of the classroom (for us, a big boss), and we asked him to bring "cubes" to us. He received the order and "Kubari" brought to us, each of four. This is a release that should be in two years!
And then there were rumors. In the army, it is always like that, first there are rumors, which then, surprisingly, are always confirmed. The rumors were one worse than the other and, the worst, that we would not be given commanding ranks, but then we did not pay attention to them.
Suddenly, the December issue, released as junior lieutenants. We walked behind them like a dog lover and teased: “Youngsters, youngest ones!” Well, we were fools then, stupid. Here before them the lieutenants were released, their younger ones, and what will happen to us, we did not think.
And here in January comes another order - to let everyone out by sergeants. We have such overlaps, offensive and stupid. Immediately at these unfortunate junior lieutenants, the "cubes" were torn off, in general, they demoted them to sergeants. And, what is most surprising, not everyone was demoted, but only those who did not manage to receive the appointment. Those who managed the assignment and left before (to the Far East), they remained junior lieutenants, I already learned during the war.
When the war began, we quickly began to write reports, asking to be sent to the front as a volunteer. Full voluntariness, no fools. I also remember all pointing out that we speak German and, in parenthesis, so modestly - “with a dictionary”. Although, God forbid, if at least two dozen words, who knew. Foreign languages and then not the strongest side of education were. It seemed that those who speak German will be sent faster, and we will show Fritz there! Fritz poured when I appear! Now, from the height, of my experience, I can say that I would have been enough for two days at the front.
By the end of the school, I had a total raid of all 40 hours. In reality, all we could do is take off and land. Neither the ability to look around in the air, nor group grouping. "We were all taught a little, something, and something." This is something and somehow - this is about me then. Now I understand that, compared with the Germans, we were wild dropouts, because the Germans produced pilots with a touch of 400 (four hundred) hours. Incredible difference.
I was also released by the sergeant. I became a senior sergeant at the front, after being wounded.
A.S. And, what at you, in school, two releases in a year were?
T.P. Yes. But I don’t remember from what year it started, from 1940 or earlier. Then did not pay attention.
A.S. At the school on what types of aircraft did you study?
T.P. At the school we mastered the following types of aircraft: U-2, SB, P-Z, TB-3.
On the Y-2 - the initial flight training.
On the SB and R-Z worked out combat use. Bombing - mostly with P-Z and, a little, with SAT. They shot at cones and at "land" - this is already with the Security Council.
R-Z was considered secret. This is an option for the P-5, but it had an M-34 engine, not an M-17, as on the P-5. Due to the more powerful engine, the Zeta's speed was higher on 20-30 km / h. M-34 terribly smoked, and the heat in the cabin drove so that in the summer it was extremely difficult and unpleasant to sit in it. Sometimes, you look, the Zet comes in to land, and the head of the cadet overboard. Smoke plus heat - swayed instantly.
A.S. And what in R-Z could be secret? After all old.
T.P. Well, yes, what is "old"? "Thunderstorm of the sky"!
A small digression. At the beginning of the 50-x appears in our IL-28. This is a “front bomber” class aircraft, it takes three tons of bombs, powerful cannon armament, in general, the most modern aircraft. It is classified as implausible, to the extent that the secret manual does not contain the image of the navigator’s cabin, since this cabin already has a super-secret sight OPB-6СР - a bomber riflescope associated with a locator (radar). The sight is so secret that in the super-secret in the instructions for its use there is only a circuit of the kinematic part, without electronics, which (electronics) is already super-super-secret. In addition to jokes, you look at the electronic circuit, and next to you is an automatic machine guard. Here is what secrecy was. Imagine our surprise when, while studying at the 4-th center of combat use in Voronezh, we find in the local library a completely unclassified, complete instruction of the American sight of the Norden company. Unclassified because the Americans either removed this scope from armament or were preparing to remove it. And this is the American "Norden" an exact copy of our OPB-6SR, more precisely, ours - an exact copy of the American. So much for the secrecy! Stolen and classified, because nothing better came up.
You probably think why I give you this history told and what does she have to do with PZ? This is for you to understand when secrets all garbage, it means only one thing - things are really bad. Like our preparation before the war. The “secrecy” of P-Z is from the same family. They hid their own weakness from themselves.
A.S. On TB-3 also bombed?
Not. Initially, TB-3 flew on group exercises, however, they were soon canceled, they considered that it was too risky, and on TB-3, we began to fly "on communication". TB-3 was the only type of aircraft on which the radio station was installed - RSB. Theoretically, it was believed that when we flew, we had to receive from the ground and transmit to the ground, by radio, a different text, and after landing we would compare the result, verify the text. It seems everything is the same, tests passed. But it was bullshit, for all the time I have never heard the “earth” and did not believe that anyone hears me.
The main type of communication between the “land” and the aircraft was the display of the Popham panel (there was such an English marshal). A panel is taken, a “T” is laid out of it, and there are special valves on the canvas that are bent and, by shortening parts of “T”, allow to transmit certain information. The simplest example is: if your left “leg” is not released, then the left half of the “T” is folded on the cloth.
And if it was necessary to transfer something more complicated to the plane, then (I remember the picture from the book), two masts were installed, and between them a bag hung on a cable. P-5 flying low above the ground, hooked package with a hook. That was the connection.
Our radio communication was in an embryonic state. We were cave people, in the sense of radio communication. I don’t remember what this walkie-talkie would use on TB-3, even though someone worked normally.
A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, on what type of aircraft did you fly the most at the school?
T.P. 40 school hours were distributed approximately equally, among all types of aircraft. Although, from school I graduated from the Security Council.
A.S. At the school on the Pe-2 you did not fly?
T.P. Not. Roughly speaking, they didn’t even know that there was such a plane. Although Pe-2 I first saw it at the school.
In the 1941 year, we, as usual, very fruitfully spent the weekend for planting trees. We, the cadets, always went out for a weekend, either planting trees, or digging caponiers for fuel depots. The fact that for such a purpose bulldozers exist or, there, excavators, and the weekend can be somehow different, we had no idea.
So we dig the earth and hear the unusual, sharp ringing above the airfield. We look up, cloudy points, three, and these clouds, literally pierces an unfamiliar plane. It rushes over us, and it has speed !! ... We have 140 km / h at the school, it was considered combat, and here, it seems, 140 is landing. Hear - comes to land. We did not have a concrete strip, and it seems that the pilot "attached" the car with high leveling, dust with a pillar and the car already at the end of the strip. Well, the speed! We are on the plane, and here from all sides: “Where ?! Back! This is a secret plane! ”That's it: you can't show a plane to a cadet, only at the front, when they go to war! So close and not shown. This was the Pe-2, one of the first. I fell in love with this car right away! Rare beauty aircraft! A beautiful plane and flies beautifully.
A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, in which regiment and where did they start fighting?
T.P. In the fall of 1942, I got to go to war. The school was already “rounded out”, because the Germans were completely full to the south. Confusion and panic, but they managed to release us, but I did not go south, but to the Karelian front.
I flew in, and already there the snow is cold and terrible. I got into the 1-th separate aviation squadron of high-speed bombers. It was in her, it seems 15-SB bombers. The squadron personnel had a lot of warfare, my komesk was on fire, I remember a scarred face. We flew with him a little bit to evaluate my flying "skill". "Skill" my not impressed, but once considered a combat pilot, it is necessary to fight. He says to me: “Tomorrow a combat mission is planned. Bear in mind your task is to see only my tail. If you start to look somewhere else and tear yourself away - you are gone. ” That's all he could do to enhance my flying skills. As it turned out a lot ...
I remembered this rule for the whole war and repeatedly convinced of its truth. Those who did not know this rule, forgot it, or, by foolishness, broke away - they knocked them down right away. There are so many of those greens for the war!
The statistics of the bombers was simple: if it was not shot down in the first five combat missions, then it goes into another category, where the chance of shooting down is somewhat less. For example, I was wounded for the first time on the fourth or fifth combat sortie. It hurt easily, I did not even stop flying, and I don’t have any information about this injury. There was no time for references.
If you made ten sorties, then you can already slowly look away from the tail leading. For example, I only began to look at the “tenth flight”, i.e. slowly look around. Looked around, wow! I'm flying! The first nine sorties I didn’t really know where I was flying and what I was bombing, I lost my orientation right away, this was the “dashing falcon”. But did not lose the lead! And on the eleventh sortie I was shot down. Fighters.
A.S. Tell me, Timofey Panteleevich, was the Security Council very outdated by the beginning of the war, or was it a fairly full-fledged bomber?
T.P. Absolutely outdated car. He burned scary. The tanks were unprotected. The speed is small.
The SB was "oak", there is such a thing for pilots. So called the plane, which is so stable that you need to make great efforts to change its course. At the Security Council everything was controlled by cable drives, so the efforts on the steering wheels, it was necessary to put a decent one. At the dacha steering reacted not willingly and slowly. Anti-destructive maneuver on SAT is unreal. One word - "oak".
Airborne weapons are weak - only ShKASy - such an infection! The Germans began to "hammer" us from 800 meters, they would settle in the tail and go ... And the limit of the ShKAS 400 meters.
A.S. In reality, what was the speed of the Security Council and what is the bomb load?
T.P. By TTX 400 km / h, but this is nonsense. On the 400-x Sat shook, it seems about to collapse. Yes, and would fall apart if they were flying. Really 320 km / h. Bomb load 600 kg.
A.S. Fighter cover then, in the 1942 year, was it?
T.P. Sometimes. Of those eleven sorties, we were covered two or three times with I-16 fighters and, it seems, just once, with “hurricanees”. However, I did not see them. I looked behind the lead tail. The fact that there will be a cover or not, we were told at the preflight briefing, from here I remember
A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, tell me, in this eleventh sortie, how many were you and how many German fighters? Did our fighters cover you?
T.P. Flew nine. Fighter cover was not. They bombed, and on the way back the Germans caught up with us. Our height was about five thousand. How many were there? And the devil knows them! I realized that they were shooting at me only when the shells began to tear, and a sharp pain in my left leg. I did not see any fighters. Absolutely sudden attack.
The left engine caught fire. Fell out of order. It would be necessary to jump, because the tanks can easily jerk, but I do not know where I am! Whether over our territory, or over occupied. Such a “proud falcon”, but jumping into captivity is not for me. The speed of 190, the car is on fire, you need to go home, and where is it home? Until the fire partitions burned out, I fastened and flew. The flame thundered! And as the partitions burned out, somewhere on the 3500, I jumped out of the cab and jumped out. He jumped out so that the parachute could be opened near the ground, he was afraid that the German fighters would shoot me in the air. Landed at ours, however, at the foot of the hole, hip ripped.
A.S. The navigator and the shooter jumped out by then?
T.P. And the devil knows them! There was no SPU on the Security Council, so we could not conduct negotiations.
A.S. So, on the SAT there was no communication between the crew members?
T.P. There was a connection, her mother! Pneumatic mail. Such an aluminum tube went along the fuselage, tied cabins. You write a note in the “patron” of it and into the pipe, either to the navigator or to the radio operator. A special “accordion” “chukhnul” several times and all ... “To the village of my grandfather. Konstantin Makarich ". Utter foolishness! I remember this ...! Rave! Not preparing for war, but ...! Chkalov, Gromov flew, the whole country was tense, but this is for agitplakats, and if you take the reality, the state is terrible.
A.S. But what about without SPU did the navigator take you to the combat course?
T.P. And I had three bulbs on my dashboard. "Red to the left, green to the right, white to straight." Their navigator from his cabin lit. Nonsense and rubbish.
In general, I bombed "in the lead." He opened the hatches - I opened, he had the bombs "gone" - I, too, was starting to pour.
You know, at the school it seemed that there was no plane that was more beautiful and better than the Security Council, and now I can’t even hear about it.
A.S. I heard that the Germans began to shoot our pilots who survived on parachutes later, somewhere in 1943.
T.P. Not. Already in the year 1942 practiced in full. Easily. It happened in 1941 that the Germans of our downed pilots were buried with military honors, this was what the warring guys told me. When you attack 50 km per day, it is just right for the enemy to shout: “Hey! Stop it! Give me a break! ”Then it is possible to play nobility with knighthood. By the end of 1942, the Germans realized that they had “fumbled” thorough and that was all, their noble games were over.
A.S. Are you at the location of our parts landed?
T.P. Not. It turned out more interesting there.
While sitting in the cab and when flying to the ground there was no fear. Fair. In general, everything was happening to me. When landing, whether from pain, or from blood loss, I lost consciousness. Awoke from the fact that someone drags me. For the lines grabbed and drags through the snow. Pulls silently. Trying to figure out our or Finns? "Well, I think - if we were dragging ours, they would have guessed the suspension system to take me off." So the Finns. Trying to grope a gun. I felt for it, but I can’t take it, my gloves flew off in my air, my hands were frozen, my fingers weren’t working. Such an insult took me, to my helplessness, that I began to swear. The most terrible words. Suddenly I heard: “I woke up! Nice, lively! I drag you, dragging ... "Some girl. It turned out that I landed a few kilometers from the village where their hospital was located (she worked there and dragged me there). This girl was returning to her village and saw me leave the plane. Since the plane was ours, she immediately ran to me. Well, they took rest (and she dragged me for a long time) and then it was already more fun.
I was lucky implausible. Lucky for not exploding in the air. I was lucky that the Germans did not shoot. When landing with a wounded leg was not killed - also lucky. Lucky that girl found me right away. I was lucky that I froze my hands, so the girl, when she was dragging me "unconscious", did not shoot me. I would have shot and froze because I could not move because of my legs. And finally - there was a hospital in the village, in which I was immediately operated on my leg and, with that, I kept it, this is so luck. I generally, the whole war, was very lucky.
A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, how did you start fighting on Pe-2?
T.P. Lying in the hospital, I rushed to the front, honestly, not a fool. I was afraid that they would recognize me as worthless, since my leg was turned upside down. I did not manage to get rid of how much I did not train. Frankly limped and how not practiced gait - nothing came of it. After the war, I still operated this leg in a new way and the fragments still sit in it. But then nothing, the commission passed, found fit.
After I was discharged from the hospital, 1 February 1943, I got into the 4 th air brigade, she stood in Kazan, and the brigade was 18-y ZAP (alternate air regiment). In ZAPe, immediately began retraining on Pe-2.
It was a good aviation tradition that every pilot, after school or hospital, had to go through a reserve regiment. It was only at the end of the war that the pilots immediately fell into the combat regiments, when we past the war already had “bison”. And then, in 1943, only through REC. It was right.
Sat forgot only Pe-2! I almost prayed to this Pe-2. This is a plane! Many pilots were afraid of him, and I loved him very much.
I was very zealous, so retraining took me a little, about four months, and 40-50 hours in flight time. In ZAP, many exercises were practiced, a full course of combat use: dive bombardment, this was the main type of bombing, horizontal bombing, but this is less. They also fired at ground targets, fired at a cone, these were exchange guns. The arrows and the navigator also shot along the cone. Relationship link worked out. "Tightly" studied, not that in school. Landfill with the airfield was very close, literally, only took off and the bomb. They bombed the usual bombs, not training. All flights were made by a full crew. I was greedy before these flights, I wanted to get to the front faster.
Four months later, the “merchants” flew in and took me to their regiment, in which it passed to the end of the war, in 36, the SBAT, which by the end of the war had become the 36 Guards Orders of Suvorov and Kutuzov, the Berlin Bomber Aviation Regiment. The regiment then fought on the 1-m Ukrainian front and led heavy air battles. I started there as an ordinary pilot, a senior sergeant, and ended the war as a flight commander, officer.
A.S. You said that many pilots Pe-2 were afraid. Why did it happen?
T.P. When you have only 5-15 flying hours on a bomber, then it is very difficult to tame such a high-speed and powerful “beast” like the Pe-2. Hence the fear
A.S. How many aircraft were there in the 36 regiment? Aircraft which plant were in the regiment? What was the difference between cars from different factories?
T.P. Let's count. Three squadrons of the whole, on 9 aircraft. Now - management link, 3 machines. And the 3-4 vehicles are in reserve, without crews. Total 33-34 aircraft. Since 1944, each air regiment already had a minimum of 10 unmanned airplanes in reserve, then it became a minimum of 40 airplanes per regiment.
The planes went to the regiment from two factories, Kazan and Irkutsk. Differ only in color, otherwise absolutely identical cars.
A.S. The cab of the Pe-2 was comfortable, was there a review, equipment, armored seat?
T.P. Very comfortable. Great, car for a fight. The review is good. Forward, sideways very well. Back, of course, there was no review, back navigator and gunner-radio operator watched.
Equipped was very good. Compared with our other aircraft, just great, the whole complex of flight instruments. For those times, it seemed to us an incredible abundance of instruments, and artificial horizon, and GPC (gyropolupass) to a magnetic compass, etc. The whole set, all that is necessary. The pilot had a collimator sight PBP, the sight provided both aiming during a dive, and shooting from course guns. The navigator was OPB (optical). Good sights, high accuracy provided.
Brunostekol was not, plexiglass. The pilot had a very reliable bronespinka, with an armored headpiece, by the way, he basically prevented the review back.
The pilot's seat was very well regulated, back and forth and up and down.
A.S. Used oxygen equipment, if so, how often? The reliability of this equipment?
T.P. Seldom. We practically didn’t fly above 4000 m, and there the young healthy guy doesn’t need oxygen. But, it was always ready. Worked reliably.
A.S. How difficult was it to leave the cab, was the lantern dropped at high speed?
T.P. The lantern was dropped easily and it was easy to leave the cabin, but it had the biggest constructive flaw. From the LDPE tube (Pitot), which sticks out above the cabin, to the tail washers went along one wire antenna, a communication and command one. When the lantern is dropped, and the pilot or navigator jumps out, he could get under one of the wires and “slide” along it to the leading edge of the tail washer, which literally chopped off his head. Naturally, flew off like a watermelon.
In our case, this is always the case, where the designer will not do, the ordinary soldier there easily. Our craftsmen changed the design of mounting the antennas by making special “ears” and introducing an additional cable with which the lantern dropped, “jerked” the antennas from the LDPE tube. Brilliant and simple. According to the same system, then they began to make antennas right at the plants. More problems with leaving the cabin was not.
A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, how complicated was the Pe-2 to manage?
T.P. The machine is extremely light. The Pe-2 found the optimal, I would say excellent, ratio between ease of management and stability. And she walked steadily, and reacted instantly to the steering wheels. Incredibly balanced aircraft.
Pe-2 was a new step in Soviet aviation. He was unusually electrified. Everything was done by him with electricity: cleaning and release of the chassis, brake pads, trimmers, flaps; in general, everything that used to be done with cable drives. Therefore, efforts on the steering wheels were needed minimal.
On landing, however, with a decrease in speed, we had to “hold” very carefully.
A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, in your opinion, how true are the veterans' stories about the disgusting landing characteristics of the Pe-2 ("goat", etc.), which (characteristics), according to them, "... killed more crews than Fritz"?
T.P. Fly must be able to! Do not know how to fly, do not blather!
I want to tell you ... After the war, I was in Kazan at the grave of Petlyakov. And there were different inscriptions on the monument, and not the most pleasant ones as well. Swear, speaking straight. I declare: Petlyakov did not deserve this abuse! Pe 2 machine is gorgeous!
When landing, a lot of pilots fell on the “fourth turn”, when the speed was minimal and if the “leg” was slightly “handed over” then - fute! Was already in the ground. It was, but ... when on a combat course, an anti-aircraft gun hits (and it hits according to certain mathematical laws), and I have to give something to this mathematical counterweight. I have to maneuver. So, when the anti-aircraft gun hits, you “punch” the “punch” and it abruptly slides away from the anti-aircraft fire, and then no one, for some reason, has fallen.
Handling Pe-2 was great. I will tell you a chance to rate. With us was the following episode:
Vitya Glushkov. We go on a combat course to bomb Krakow. Large city, the air defense is the strongest. We go on three, not more. And as the projectile slammed him into the plane, it punched a hole - a car, hop! and lay on his back. And the bombs are hanging! We usually took 800 kg. He laid him on his back, he sput-pyr - the astroluk does not open, the entrance hatch does not open - it is jammed. This is understandable, loaded on the wings, deformed the fuselage and simply “squeezed” all the hatches. He is there like a sparrow rushing around the cabin, but can not do anything. And the car is coming! Normal horizontal flight, only lying on his back. Up wheels, with a bomb load! We look, this "sparrow" has ceased to rush about, sits. Sat-sat, then, oh! and again brought her to normal flight. Bombed and flew home. We then say to him: “She didn’t allow you to go into captivity, you fool!” - because in such a situation, as it turned out he had to jump.
I'll tell you more. Typically, a dive is at an angle of 70 degrees. We had guys who, being carried away, entered the plane into a dive at a greater or even negative angle (which is a mistake of course), but even in this case the Pe-2 never lost control and the car went out perfectly.
On landing, many “fought” not because the car was bad, but because these pilots were completely untrained.
A.S. In winter, flew in fur overalls?
T.P. And in the summer.
A.S. How did it affect the ease of management, review? Did it bother you?
T.P. Well no. The cabin was spacious and comfortable, the overalls did not interfere.
A.S. And what were the options for flight uniforms during the war?
T.P. Overalls winter, demi-season and summer. Summer is the usual fabric. Demi-season is a two-, three-layer durable fabric, and between layers of a layer like a batting and a bike. It was used most often. Winter - fur. We did not have flight jackets, they appeared after the war.
A.S. What shoes was it? Did you have flight shoes?
T.P. In the summer - boots, in the winter - high boots. High-laced boots, we first appeared after the war, captured, German. During the war there were no shoes.
A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, used shoulder straps?
T.P. Everyone enjoyed both shoulder and waist, because in battle it was possible to thunder like that ...
A.S. Cabin heating was?
T.P. Not. It was cold in winter, there were holes everywhere, and from the navigator’s side, the cabin was, in fact, open and into the machine-gun embrasures.
Sometimes, if the hands “zadubeyut”, then simply, strongly you start to hit the board, and so long until in your fingers “zaschiplet”.
A.S. Did everyone have a Pe-2 radio station and SPU?
T.P. Yes. Two radio stations. The command of the pilot (I do not remember what was called), the connected RSB-2 of the gunner-radio operator. Stood on all machines. The command station was supposed to provide communication between the machines in the air and the pilot with the airfield, and a coherent "long-range" connection with the ground. It was on Pe-2 and SPU. That century, when there was pneumomail, was gone.
A.S. Did the radio stations work reliably?
T.P. Not. It was our trouble then and trouble now. In these radio stations there wasn’t what was called quartz stabilization, they were noisy, background sounds, they were terribly cracking. The command, the pilots, happened to be turned off, because all this roar, noise and cacophony were difficult to bear. The connection was disgusting. It used to be that the command station worked so disgustingly that it was necessary to keep communication with neighboring machines through a radio operator, this is bad, the efficiency disappears completely. In general, going off in flight, they never knew how the stations would behave. Whether the connection will be bad, or more or less. Good never happened.
The laryngophones were large and uncomfortable, like boxes. Their necks were thoroughly irritated, even a silk scarf did not help. In the midst of hostilities, when there are many flights, they all walked with persistent irritation of the neck, because these boxes beat the skin with electricity. In addition, it was necessary to knock on the laryngophones from time to time, otherwise coal powder “sinter” into them and they stopped working.
SPU, unlike walkie-talkies, worked very well, loudly and cleanly.
Happening. We stood in Rzeszow (this is in Poland) and landed on our airfield a padded American Flying Fortress B-17. He sat down on his stomach, the crew was sent to their own, and the plane remained at our airport, no one was going to restore it, apparently. We climbed on this B-17, wanted to see what the allies are fighting. The American "Laryngs" surprised us! For real. The size of a Soviet three-kopeck coin and as thick as three coins is a pile. Our radio arrows quickly riveted them so that they could be connected to our stations. The thing is the most convenient. As regards radio electronics, we lagged behind allies (and indeed from the Germans).
We also wanted to see American sights, but we didn't find a damn thing. It turns out that during a rough landing, the Americans had a self-destruct system, and all the little bit secret equipment self-destructed in small explosions. I learned about self-destruction after the war.
A.S. Radio station on the target from the ground was?
T.P. Not. Our radios more or less provided only communication between the crews in the air. We often did not hear the earth, and they often did not hear us.
We have one interesting episode with the radio station.
When the Berlin operation went, we suffered rather heavy losses. And from anti-aircraft fire and fighters. Despite the fact that the war was coming to an end, the Germans flew to the last. The Germans did not fly some kind of shantrap, and they flew "be calm!". If he came in and successfully - “write hello!”.
Somehow we shot down two of us. I do not remember whether fighters, or anti-aircraft guns, and it does not matter. There is an analysis, all, of course, dull. Every day for two to lose - it's a bit too much! The regiment commander, Major Korotov, takes the word: “Comrade commander — he appeals to the regiment — I suggest: when our pilots are on a combat course or conduct air combat, send inspirational slogans from the command post:“ For the Motherland! For Stalin! Forward! ”The regiment commander Major A real intellectual, tolerant and tactful was incredible, he never raised his voice. But here we see a purple-reddening, and then: “Sit Major Korotov! I always knew that you ... hmm ... stupid, but did not know so much! ”
A.S. What were the real bomb loads of Pe-2?
T.P. Pe-2 easily took 1200 kg. This is if you take off from concrete airfields. True, the maneuver with such a burden is difficult. These are six bombs in bomb holes (three each on cluster holders), under the center section two and two, and two in the nacelles. Bombs "weave."
We, for a fight, usually took 800 kg in "weave". And you take off from the ground without problems, and maneuverability, despite such a load, is very good.
During the bombing of Breslau, we hung 4 on 250 kg on the outer suspension, respectively, flew with 1000 kg.
Several times they took the "five hundred" - the maximum for our caliber - two pieces.
They bombed PTAB, their internal suspension, in two cassettes, out of 400 pieces. According to 2,5 kg bomb, the "circle" is also 1000 kg.
A.S. Internal suspension which maximum caliber bombs allowed?
T.P. "Weaving." 100 kg.
"250" already on the bomber holder is not secured, although it can, and would fit into the bomb bay.
A.S. What was the defensive armament of the machine?
T.P. The defensive armament was as follows: the navigator had a large-caliber "Berezin", the shooter at the upper hemisphere of the ShKAS, and the lower hatch installation also "Berezin". True, at first ShKAS was also at the navigator, well, this is “not at any gate” and the guys in the regiment themselves reworked the navigator installation under the “Berezin” or invented any kind of devilry to “portray” a heavy machine gun.
The navigator also had AG-2, aircraft grenades, such as a parachute. Push the button, it flies off and explodes in 300-400 meters. I do not know of a single case that at least one German fighter would be shot down by these grenades, but the Germans quickly got out of combat. So, these AGs were a pretty sensible thing.
Well, plus to everything, the pilot had two course machine guns - the right-hand "Berezin" and the left ShKAS.
A.S. Bomb these AG did not try?
T.P. And how to bomb them? Did not even think. They are there in the tail in the cassette, used only during the air battle.
A.S. Was the effectiveness of defensive weapons in general and the low firing point in particular enough?
T.P. Defensive weapons were effective. If the system keeps - try come here!
As for the bottom firing point. It not only reflected the attack of fighters from below, but also from it the arrows fired on the ground. This point was effective. The shooter had a periscopic sight, which provided quite a decent overview and accuracy of firing.
A.S. Radioman from his ShKAS up fire led often?
T.P. Seldom. During the battle, the navigator "held" the upper hemisphere, the radio operator - the lower. It was worked out. If the navigator fired, the radio operator did not even stick up. And there is no time for him to look up, his task is to cover from below.
CABIN radio operator, usually located in the side of the pivot. In the compartment of the radio operator, there was a window on each side, and each of these windows had a device for mounting the ShKAS pivot. Depending on what place the slave was occupied by the plane, right or left, the SHKAS was usually installed on that side. If the need arose in battle, ShKAS could be quickly and easily transferred to the other side. The radio operator with his ShKAS up began to work only if the navigator for some reason could not lead the fire. It happened, when it was necessary to repel an urgent attack, then the radio operators, who were physically stronger, shot up “from the hands”, i.e. not fastening machine gun. Of course, they didn’t get anywhere, but the fighter was attacked, he left the combat course.
A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, defensive weapons worked reliably?
T.P. Reliably Sometimes there were problems with ShKAS, and the “Berezina” worked very reliably.
A.S. Were there cases when the navigator or gunner-radio operator took additional ammunition?
T.P. Not. Well, where will he take it? Tapes gird? He has nowhere to take. There is no extra space in the cabs.
A.S. In the “Urapatriotic” literature, descriptions of such a case slip through that the fighter from the fire of the navigator “hides” behind the washer of the helm and the navigator, shooting through the puck, knocks him down. So to say, of two evils - damaged tail or being shot down - chooses the least. This is real?
T.P. Theoretically, yes, just how will they then sit down? I have not heard of such a shooting.
In reality, this was most likely the case. The navigator in the heat of battle "cut off" the puck (which could well have been), and this is a tribunal. The rest of the crew, knowing about such a thing, confirmed the invented bike about the “hiding” fighter, so that they would not let their navigator under the tribunal. But, I repeat, I have not heard of such cases.
It is much easier for the pilot to “move his foot” a bit and because of the puck the fighter will come out. Separated keels gave the navigator magnificent shelling sectors, for these keels to hide a fighter is a problem.
A.S. When did you begin to dive in a real combat situation?
T.P. At once. For such purposes as bridges, railway trains, artillery batteries, etc., they tried to bomb only with a dive.
A.S. Did you personally immediately start bombing with a dive or were you bombing horizontally first? Were there brake grids, and how often was a dive practiced? The ratio of diving and horizontal bombing?
T.P. How to bomb, with a dive or horizontally, I did not decide. The type of bombardment depended on the target and, most importantly, on the weather.
Lattices have always been, of course, but how can they be displayed without them? According to the instructions, the input to the dive is 3000 m, the output is 1800 m, and two out of it are the pilot and the automatic dive. And the machine turns on, with the release of gratings. Here on the 1800, the automat works and trims the trimmer. But the real way out of a dive is obtained at a lower height, because what exists is what is called a “drawdown”, and this is also 600-900 meters. If there were no grids, then they would have stuck to the ground from a subsidence. That is, the actual output height was usually in the 1100-1200 area of m.
Dives were five times less. Unfortunately.
A.S. And why less picks?
T.P. Because of weather. The war weather does not wait. If the height of clouds is below 3000 thousands, then it was necessary to bomb from horizontal flight.
A.S. When diving, the fault of the machine, any risky situations arose?
T.P. The fault of the car is not, dived and was displayed perfectly. The fault of the crew was.
It used to be that the pilot had to dodge the “squeeze” car. The need for "boosting" appears when the navigator made a mistake when aiming. Then the pilot, in order to keep the target in sight, has to constantly increase the dive angle (“squeeze”). As a result of this, after dumping, the car is behind and below its own bombs and, on withdrawal, the bombs just fall on the plane. Cases are the most incredible, but they were. That was the recbus croxword. And how to reset them? The “chicken pox” flew off, the fuses cocked, the bomb “ready”, just touch it. Guys, in such cases, for a couple of minutes saddles. But, our regiment was lucky, no one exploded.
A.S. With a dive bombing much more accurate?
T.P. Much, much more accurate.
A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, tell me, was it really possible to get from a dive to such a target as a tank?
T.P. Not. We considered it to be a hit when bombs fall within 40-50 m from the aiming point, and often fit in 10. B tank 10 meters will not be, it is only by chance.
A.S. But the German dive bombers in their memoirs write that they almost got the tank in the tower.
T.P. Yeah. A driver in the nose. It is he at home, behind a glass of schnapps, he can tell similar tales. I would try to tell me, I would bring him to clean water.
A.S. Did you dive from a dive individually, by “direct approach” or from a “circle” (“turntable”)? Did you bomb dive with a pair, a link?
T.P. Basically they were bombed by links, three planes each, sometimes by fives. Could and individually, for example, during the "hunt" or intelligence. These types of tasks were carried out by a single aircraft. It is more desirable to bomb single-handedly, it is easier to correct mistakes.
In battle, bombed from a direct approach, the "turntable" only worked out in training flights, in battle it was not used. "Pinwheel" requires a tip from the ground, and the connection with us ... yes, I told you. In addition, the planes in the "turntable" is very vulnerable to the actions of enemy fighters. It was the Fritz at the beginning of the war that “fattened” this “whirlpool”, and then when our fighters became prosperous, so at first their “whirlpool” ended, and then the bomber aircraft.
A.S. What was the "hunt" for Pe-2?
T.P. Usually the task was set as follows (I give in an abstract manner): “To clear the railway station from point such and that to point such and that,” these are kilometers 50-100, for us it is not a distance. So we rush over this haul, and if someone is caught, then all - “fiery greetings!” Will not go anywhere, spread
They flew only single aircraft. Loaded both suspension, sometimes only internal. The speed on the “hunt” is the most important, because the “hunt” in the war is like this: part you are a hunter, part - a hare ..
A.S. How many dive visits have you made?
T.P. It was that way. When diving it is impossible to use the internal suspension. Fritz internal suspension used, they have a special lever for the ejection of bombs was, and we have not even like this designed. Therefore, it came out that, by the first approach, they swooped down, dropping bombs from the external suspension, and then by the second approach with the 1100-1200, they bombed horizontally, freeing the internal one.
When we bombed Breslau, we hung 4 bombs on 250 kg on an external suspension and dived two dives each. But the second dive is risky, it is necessary to gain height again, and this takes time.
The photo engineer squadron Monastyrev Nikolai.
The photo shows the emblem of the pilot - "cat". Unfortunately, this plane was not Punev, he did not have pictures of his car.
The photo shows the emblem of the pilot - "cat". Unfortunately, this plane was not Punev, he did not have pictures of his car.
A.S. Were they put on the RS planes?
T.P. We do not have.
A.S. Have any weapons enhancement activities been carried out?
T.P. After the 1943, the pilot began to put a large-caliber machine gun, no measures to strengthen the weapons was not carried out. As soon as they put the large-caliber navigator, the Pe-2’s armament for defensive air combat became simply magnificent.
A.S. At what distance do the course guns shoot?
T.P. 400 meters. Everything weapon at 400 meters.
A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, have you ever "stormed" on a Pe-2? In general, the attack on the Pe-2 conducted?
T.P. Not. That made no sense. No one stormed. There were enough attack aircraft, which were engaged in this "haircut". We are bombers, we have a serious matter. Artbatarei, driveways, staffs, fortified. You don’t make much of them, you can’t do anything with machine gun fire, you need powerful bombs there.
PTAB bombing is the closest to ground attack. There, the height of the bombing 350-400 m.
I fired machine guns at ground targets only in ZAP, not even at the front.
A.S. And on the "hunt", on targets for which the bombs are a pity to spend, there are single cars, etc., did not try to destroy their course guns?
T.P. Me not. What for? Down to go risky, the car is not armored, any bullet may be the last. For such purposes, the shooter from his hatch installation will “work out” superbly, I do not need to go down for this.
A.S. What height will it be?
T.P. It fluctuated between 350 and 1200 meters. Usually 500-700 meters. From these heights, the shooter perfectly took out of his "Berezina", shoot down easily, bullets fly well down.
A.S. PTBami bombed often?
T.P. Often. It was a very effective type of bombing. As soon as the accumulation of equipment or tanks where noted, so they sent us to process it with PTAB. Even from one plane 400 PTABs fly away in a cloud, if you get under it - it will not seem a little. And we usually processed clusters of 9 technology or 15 aircraft. So imagine what happened down there. PTAB is a serious bomb, albeit a small one.
Here's a case from 45.
It all started with Yuri Gnusarev, who was sent to explore. The weather was foul - dense smoke and horizontal visibility no more than a kilometer away, which is not a distance for a high-speed aircraft. He reports on the radio: "Beat on Biskau, there are tanks!" They urgently recruit 15-crews, three fives, the most experienced, those who will surely cope. In their number and I got. The lead navigator there should be a “bison” and this was Kostya Borodin, the navigator by vocation. We flew, I do not know how anyone, but my soul was in heels. Slightly miss the navigator, and "fit in" we are in the city, there’s no shit. We flew on 350 meters, climb a little higher and the land is no longer visible. But Kostya worked clearly. Brought us right to this column. The accumulation of technology capital. We, through the haze, saw this technique at the first approach, but only directly below us. Bomb, of course, you can not. If we drop, bombs in front of the target will fall. Fritz "were silent", did not shoot, apparently or thought that we did not see them, or we jumped out too suddenly. Most likely, both that, and that. But we are "hooked", doing a U-turn with three fives for bombing. Well, when we went the second run, they realized that they had discovered and opened heavy fire. They glimpsed incredibly, from everything - from machine guns to anti-aircraft guns. We dropped the bombs, but we are going straight ahead, we need to conduct photo control. I, those extra seconds, I will not forget the coffin.
Landing - "Hurray!" No one was shot down. I was the last to sit down, pleased to crawl out of the cabin, waiting for my traditional “bull” technique. (We had a custom. When I land, he smoked my cigarette. Only the engines muffled and immediately, the first puff, almost in the cockpit. Such enjoyment after the fight!) I’m happy - I see that I have taxed everything, but he gloomy I told him: “You what?” “Yes you, commander, look!” There are cars standing - there is no place for the living. Riddled terribly, who does not have half the tail, who has a hole - the head will crawl through. Began to watch ours. Not a scratch! Then, when they began to look carefully, they found a bullet scratch on the radome of the right oil radiator. Everything! I was damn lucky.
Already considering the photocontrol, we were told: “Well, you freaked out!” Then, on the next day, ground reconnaissance reported that we had destroyed the 72 tank on this sortie, not counting any other technology. Very effective departure, I would say outstanding.
A.S. Did the pilot often use machine guns in battle? If you had to use them, how did you personally shoot - with adjustments for the tracers, or just the exact turn to kill?
T.P. Yes, course machine guns used often. I remember starting from them to shoot, then a full cabin of smoke.
The fact is that some "funny" Fritz were forgotten. He goes to the attack from below from behind, and in order to keep the speed he jumps forward and goes steeply up onto the vertical, “shows the cross”, and this “cross” directly into my sight. I have two "fun ones". (I did not receive any awards, I did not receive anything for them, I have an awkward language for my superiors.) Although everyone saw that I had slashed them. I remember when I knocked down the first one, they told me: “Well, you are a well-done Corporal (this was my call sign, I’m from the sergeants, although I was already an officer), well, you cut it off!” I say: climb ?! ”
There were no pre-emptions and adjustments here, as he “showed the cross,” I only had triggers - kx-x! and all! What is my merit here? No. Do not go under my machine guns!
No, course machine guns are a very necessary thing. I carried two stars on board for shooting down, and we had guys who had five stars each.
A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, what was the consumption of ammunition in combat?
T.P. The navigator was “burned out” completely, the gunner-radio operator almost, and often completely, the pilot could not shoot one, but the whole one. Everything depended on the fight. The radio operator spent part of the ammunition working "on the ground", but not addicted. You never know, you suddenly have to fight back from fighters, but there are no cartridges.
A.S. The shooter purposefully hit the anti-aircraft guns, or “what do you have”?
T.P. According to "what will have", what would be more terrible to the enemy.
A.S. Planes shot down by a pilot, marked the stars, and the navigator and the shooter?
T.P. Exactly the same stars. One crew, all in common.
A.S. Question: Which of the navigators and shooters shot down? - did not occur? As far as I know, several crews often fire at one attacking fighter in battle.
T.P. Never. Fair. Always knew exactly who shot down. Never and no friction when dealing with this issue did not arise.
A.S. And what is the maximum number of downed fighters accounted for by the most successful navigators and shooters of your regiment?
T.P. Five.
A.S. What was the climb rate of Pe-2?
T.P. And the devil knows. I never asked myself this question. We were then quite satisfied, to the front line we gained the required height quite easily.
A.S. Real speed Pe xnumx?
T.P. Cruising with bombs - 360 km / h. On the combat course - 400. Departure from the target to 500. On a dive to 720.
A.S. Maneuverability at Pe-2 suit you?
T.P. Great maneuverability! For me - above all praise. I told you, “put my foot” and hop !, you are already in this place.
A.S. Was it possible to perform aerobatics on Pe-2? If so, did you use this feature in battle?
T.P. You can, but it was forbidden. We had a pilot Banin, somehow he flew around the plane, accelerated and spun a barrel over the airfield. X-time and the second! He sits down, and right there he sticks to the brig. And then the next day, the corps commander flew in, the famous ace Polbin, “rode” to the regiment and to Banin. We sat, sat, drew, drew, and then Polbin took off and twisted two “barrels” too. “Pawn” did these things easily, but only the pilots did not.
A.S. And why? Well, in a tight order of battle, it’s understandable that you’re not going anywhere, but on the “hunt”, it seems, all you have to do is spin.
T.P. Not. In flying with a fighter spinning is a losing matter in advance, anyway, almost all the aerobatics performs better and faster. The main maneuver of avoiding a fighter is a sharp change of course in height and uncoordinated left-right. The “pawn” did these things superbly - by a throw! Plus the “golden dream” is the shortest course home and, of course, the fire of the navigator and the shooter.
A.S. That is, I understood that you didn’t perform any “scissors” maneuvers in the ranks?
T.P. Not. "Hard" build - the key to success. All maneuvers and "throws", only within the system.
A.S. Engine M-105PF - suit you, its power, reliability? How often did the motors fail and for what reason - wear, maintenance?
T.P. M-105PF is a very reliable engine, there were almost no failures, only damage in battle.
The only thing that happened was the gear teeth, but these were isolated cases. Sometimes it still broke the rod, but it is on a worn engine and is also very rare. There was no such thing on the new engines.
The power of the M-105 was, in general, sufficient, but the Pe-2 just “asked” the engine under the 1700 hp, such as the M-107. With him, a “pawn” would be an exceptional plane, and with “one hundred and fifth” it would be “just” cool.
Engine service was "on the level."
A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, did you fly with M-105 engines?
T.P. No, when I started to fly already stood forced.
A.S. Did the pitch of the screw change, was it convenient to control the pitch of the screw, did you often use the pitch change?
T.P. Constantly and often used the change step. Virtually changing each flight mode, there take-off, cruising, etc., required a step change. It was not a problem and it worked reliably.
At first, out of stupidity, before the dive they removed the gas, they thought the drawdown would be less, but it was nonsense. Then they threw it away, take it away, don't take it away, anyway 720 km / h, the “pawn” literally hangs on the screws.
A.S. Fast and Furious was?
T.P. Not.
There were limitations on the number of turns on lightweight screws - on 2550 turns, no more than 3 minutes. In this mode, and so long the engine worked only on takeoff. We even when the front line crossed above 2400 did not lift. If you do more, then the gain in speed is minimal, and the engines can be “planted” easily.
A.S. Altitude engine suit you?
T.P. Is complete. I told you, we didn’t climb above 4000. As three thousand passed - then the boost was transferred to the 2-th stage and order.
A.S. Were there any interruptions in parts? How were complaints filed?
T.P. From 1943, the material support of the bomber air regiments was at the highest level, spare parts went smoothly, any. From the engines to the motors. About complaints: I do not remember, the cars were going to high quality.
Although when I flew to the Kazan factory to get airplanes, walked around the workshops, I honestly shook it. There is such a master at the lathe, and under the feet two drawers, otherwise the machine will not reach. Guys, chronically hungry. If the pigeon flew into the workshop, then everything, the work stopped and the hunt for game began. All flying pigeons fell into the soup, knocked them with their slingshots. Cracked in my soul, because when we dive, the car already rings. To whom do I trust life? Boys. But collected quality. The “pawn” overloaded to 12 withstand and nothing, did not fall apart.
Our regiment was given a part of the aircraft by the Kazan University (Lenin was still studying there). More precisely, the machines were manufactured with funds raised by teachers and students of this university. I had the honor of flying one of these cars. We, those who flew on these machines and survived (there are about ten of us left) after the war, met with teachers of this university in Kazan. I am grateful to these people.
The only thing I remember was that some techies complained that they hadn’t delivered fluids with tetraethyl lead, but since the flights did not stop, they apparently did deliver it.
A.S. So, that you yourself "disturbed" the liquid?
T.P. I do not know, it was not my business. I remember there were conversations. Why I remembered - the offensive was going, the very height and we were afraid that we would "land", since there would be no gasoline.
A.S. Aircraft launch - by air or auto starter?
T.P. Pe-xnumx - by air. Autostarter Sat launched.
A.S. How much fuel does Pe-2 have? Have you ever used hanging tanks?
T.P. Somewhere for three hours of flight, it is 1000-1100 km. Suspended tanks never used.
A.S. Did you fly with a permanent crew?
T.P. With constant. There from a half-word it is necessary to understand each other. Of course, sometimes the composition of the crew changed, for various reasons, from death and injury (which was quite often) to promotion (which was rare), but any change in the composition was only an order. Flew carriages tried not to break, flew crew - force.
A.S. Technical staff: staff, number, conditions of service of the aircraft?
T.P. Let's list. Let's start with the link. Technician level - he is responsible for the engines. Gunsmith link - for weapons. Then they relied on each aircraft: a mechanic, two mechanics, a gunsmith, and an instructor.
A.S. What were the lifetimes of the Pe-2 at the front?
T.P. 30 departures, combat naturally. Then the plane went somewhere. In general, write off. They took a new one.
A.S. What was the survivability of the enemy fire?
T.P. Very high. I did not have to be chased, I was lucky. But it happened that people came, then with holes in the plane, in holes, the whole was a natural sieve, then the puck beat off, then the half stabilizer fell off. And the car came, and sat down.
Kindle Pe-2 was not easy. The Pe-2 had tanks retouched, the protector was well tightened - not every bullet is deadly. Next, the system NG (neutral gas). The navigator at the entrance to the fire zone (and some immediately after take-off) switches the NG lever and starts sucking in the tanks from the exhaust, filling the empty space of the tanks with an inert gas.
A.S. Were there cases of "forced on the belly"? How dangerous is it to land for a pilot and was there a possibility of repair?
T.P. On the belly? Sat down. For a pilot, it is safe enough that such a landing can be generally safe. The main thing is not to sit on a burning one, otherwise tanks will explode when landing. Repairs? Easily. If you sit on a more or less flat field, then it was lifted and after a few days, you see, it is already flying.
A.S. If the planes returned with holes, then how many, from what calibers?
T.P. We are a superstitious people, counting holes was considered a bad omen. But I am telling you, it happened that a plane was returning, not a sieve.
A.S. How visually assess the power of the German 20 mm guns?
T.P. Depending on where it falls. If he came under the 2 / 4 angle, then he fell into the fuselage, then a hole was made in 6-7, see whacking into the plane, then 15-20 cm came out, a big hole came out, with such inverted edges. Apparently due to the fact that the plane is an element bearing, then it helped the destruction.
A.S. Did you have to take a forced one?
T.P. Had to. And during the war, twice, and after - once. And after the war, with a burning engine, lucky - did not explode. I am lucky. Broke rod. The car was already old, thoroughly worn out. Flying off.
On the "pawn" I did not jump. I was such a “merchant hoot” - I always reached out to my own. No shit they did not leave me down.
A.S. What kind of fieldwork aircraft carried out?
T.P. After refining the flashlight and installing a heavy machine gun to the navigator, the Pe-2 did not need any modifications.
A.S. How are airplanes camouflaged in the regiment, what are the sizes of the numbers, were there any emblems?
T.P. No camouflage. We were satisfied with the factory color. Kazan plant painted the upper surface in a protective green color, and Irkutsk in white, with green stripes. We called these machines "Irkutsky". From the Irkutsk plant we had planes in the winter. Bottom and there, and there, was blue. We did not have camouflage, and I never saw it in other regiments. The Germans had camouflage.
The rooms were large, blue, in the cockpit of the radio operator. On the keels of the star. In the cockpit area, the emblem of the pilot was put on the left; I had a “lion in a jump”. Someone has a tiger. Vaska Borisov had an interesting emblem in general - a bomb (lying), on her astride a bear drinking vodka from the throat. The division commander will arrive as follows: “Borisov, well, do you erase this crap!” - and did not erase. But in general emblems were allowed. The emblems of the technique were drawn, there were great masters. The guys about my lion said that "as if alive, is about to jump".
After the war, I transferred to the 2-th regiment of our Guards Corps. There, on the cockpits, instead of the emblem of the pilot, was the emblem of the regiment - the Guards badge, with the oblique inscription - "Vyslensky".
Koki screws were painted in the same protective color.
A.S. Do all airplanes painted the lower surfaces of the wings in blue?
T.P. Yes, at all.
A.S. How common was repainting aircraft after the factory?
T.P. Never dealt with this nonsense. Thirty sorties, not worth this matay repainting. I will tell you so, rarely, what kind of car in summer coloring lived up to winter or in winter, until summer.
A.S. Was lime coloring applied in winter?
T.P. Not.
"After the war": Pilots of the "Vyslensky" regiment. Second left Punev So. (gesturing with hand)
The photo was taken in Austria, in 1949 year. Punev had already served in the "Vyslensky" regiment, as evidenced by the emblem on the plane.
The photo was taken in Austria, in 1949 year. Punev had already served in the "Vyslensky" regiment, as evidenced by the emblem on the plane.
A.S. Have you ever, on occasion, attacked enemy bombers? Were there any such cases at the front, in your regiment?
T.P. I personally did not have to, but there were many such cases both at the front and in our regiment. It was often successful. Cut them - “be calm!” It is a pity that I did not turn up, I shot well.
A.S. Did the German bombers attack us?
T.P. No, this was not. They have our machines much inferior in speed, where they with our "pawn" to fight!
A.S. Your opinion, why did we make less sorties than the Germans?
T.P. Mostly, probably because of the weak engineering of the airfields, which made us terribly dependent on the weather. For example, for February 1945 I made only two sorties. Fritz flew with "betonok", and we are from the ground. February is warm, airfields limp, do not take off. And we sat like damned. Although, when the airfields dried up, they could make four sorties a day, and all with a dive. For a dive-keeper, this is incredibly much. This is a work for wear.
In winter, again, they could make one or two sorties in three months, but they could not have made one. That airfield is not suitable, because there was nothing to clean the airfields from the snow. No bulldozers, no graders. Cleared the airfield - no weather. The weather has appeared - again there is no airfield. An airfield appeared - the front was gone, we had to catch up, and so on.
Although, in the summer the provision of airfields improved. If you stood on the spot for a long time, then you could lay a narrow-gauge railway to transport fuel and ammunition directly to the airfield.
A.S. What was the ratio of combat missions to non-combat?
T.P. Already I will not say, but there were many non-combat ones. Probably three or four times more than combat.
First of all, flights. Circling new and refurbished technology. Putting into operation a young replenishment. There were a lot of training missions.
For example. After the Lvov operation, there was an operational pause, and we did not fly on missions, but there was no rest. The regiment constantly flew on training missions, so that the skill does not lose. A few hundred meters from the airfield "poured out" circle, or sand, or lime, 10 m diameter. They hang, you handsome, three bombs, fighting of course, and please fly. We had to get at least one bomb into the circle. Got - walk, didn't get - charge three more bombs until you hit. Each flight is three dives, and I tried to make the fourth one in some way. The load on the crew in these sorties is very large, well, three dives in a row ... My gunner stole apples somewhere and fed them (we had a nourishing feeding, but not very diverse), only that this fourth time I did not go, the guys exhausted heavily.
A.S. Have you ever heard of penal squadrons?
T.P. Only rumors.
A.S. Has it ever happened that you did not count the combat mission when the task was not fulfilled?
T.P. If the "worked" on the target and there is a photo control, the departure is always counted.
And already got - did not get? There were very “costly” goals, i.e. the number of sorties required to destroy them was incredible - bridges, railway junctions, etc. The Germans covered their "anti-aircraft guns" incredibly. It happens, the bomb-bomb, but still can not get. Near yes close. This is not a polygon for you.
A.S. Were there any cases of cowardice or special failure to perform a combat mission?
T.P. Not. What would anyone throw a system, this was not.
Small cases, such an easy jitters, it was. We used to enter the zone of anti-aircraft fire, and we had one such “very competent”, it was higher than the building on 50 meters and went up there. I say to him: “Seryoga! The next time you get me on the fly! What are you doing ?! ”While the“ anti-aircraft gun ”beats it does not matter, what if fighters? They and his first knocked down, and our order of battle is broken, and hence the system of firing - a hole in the ranks, try to close! We were very negative about such tricks and punished ourselves. Well, they gave the neck straight.
I had a case when the pilot did not drop the bomb, but it was not the pilot of our regiment.
I had to fly reconnaissance, but with bombs. The Görlitz node, this is a large city, and it turned out that I was “loaded” on a departure by a colonel from Moscow. They in Moscow thought that since 1945 is a year, we are already flying with a cane and in tuxedos, with butterflies. And not the combat sorties from us, but the gliding, but the Germans were blasting and blasting that the anti-aircraft guns, that the fighters were “be quiet!” Alone, I would have jumped, but when I was told that I would fly with him, I would smack . What kind of pilot he is, I don’t know, he fought - he didn’t fight - without a clue how he would lead himself in the air - it is not known. Well, do I need such a slave? Not. In addition, the pair for the bomber is incomplete, defective. Defeating a pair of fighters is incredibly difficult. Better alone.
In general, I am tudes, they are syudas - I can't get rid of this colonel. I have no faith for him. Here comes Orlov, our excellent pilot, flight commander. He was just going fishing (the angler was passionate, and there was a river near the airfield). I say: "Give me at least another Orlov, and there, over the goal, we are already a link, three of us, we shall figure something out." I really wanted a verified pilot to cover me in the air. In general, I spoiled all the fishing for Orlov. I not only ruined his fishing, I drove him into a coffin. Eh! ...
The results of the photo monitoring of the bombing
And we flew three. And when we approached this goal, they so whipped us! Already on the combat course, aiming is going (about five kilometers to the goal), I see that the “pawn” falls out of the torch and to the ground, as it will! - all scattered. “This is the colonel could not resist in the ranks” - I say to the crew. A dive began, hit the station, and there are four echelons. Earlier, intelligence reported that three of them were with soldiers and one was not known with what. Here in this unknown, I put the bombs, and there were ammunition in it. He fuck like! Shells flew through the entire city (this was reflected in the photocontrol). I don’t know how many Germans were put up by this explosion, but I think the score is at least hundreds, since these three infantry echelons were very close. Node after my strike week did not function. This, probably, was my most effective blow for the whole war.
Go back a couple. And then the shooter tells me: “And the colonel is following us.” "How?! “I think it means that Orlov was shot down!” Now this is a warfare! We cross the front line, and the shooter is to me again: "And his bomb holes are open." I told him: "It was he who scolded the goal, tell him to close it." Only I told him this, the shooter yells: “Bombs from him fell down!” I took a cross on the tablet and set a cross, marked the time and place of the bombing. It was our territory, fortunately only the forest. We arrive on the airfield, I get out and hear that he is already yelling: “Pilots, guards, your mother is like that, you have lost the crew! …. ”I told him:“ Oh, you bastard!, Your bombs have fallen down here! ”- and I show on the tablet. He was awesome, somehow “extinguished” like that, on a plane and dumped in a hurry. What was there with him further, I do not know.
True, our regiment had such traps that they never flew on combat missions. If you do not want - there is always a reason. Well, so the regiment did not feel any need for them. Do not know how - fly in a circle, bomb landfill, train. To send those into battle will be even more expensive.
A.S. Percentage of tasks performed was?
T.P. No, we did not have this.
A.S. How do you feel about the cinema "Chronicle of the dive bomber", how true and reliable the film is in relation to real life?
T.P. I don’t remember this movie exactly, I remember the general feeling - noodles on the ears.
I always wondered why, as a consultant, so necessarily the general. Ask those who really fought.
Of all the films, the most reliable is “Only old men” go into battle, ”but there are several annoying blunders there.
A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, now many historians are working on the now quite popular thesis that the Pe-2 was a rather mediocre dive bomber? In your opinion, is this correct?
T.P. Yes?! Which one is better?
A.S. Well ... Tu-2.
T.P. And who saw him and when he appeared at the front? I, for example, for all the time at the front, Tu-2 never saw. And what they do not like Pe-2?
A.S. Pe-2 is difficult to manage. ...
T.P. Nonsense! Fly need to be able to. I told you…
A.S. ... When diving you cannot use the internal suspension. ...
T.P. So what? Large caliber still does not fit into the bomb bay. At the diving diver the main suspension is external. Well this is a dive biker.
A.S. ... The bomb load is small. ...
T.P. And how many bombs do you need to get into? One is enough. Here I am in a dive to her and get one.
Even with only two 250 kg, you can destroy the bridge or the ship "on the move" to drown, and if you hit the train, you don’t need to say anything.
Therefore, the Pe-2, carrying one ton of bombs, is more effective than a two-ton bomber carrying a horizon bombing. And a ton of bombs is not a small load at all.
A.S. ... It was necessary to level up highly, due to the large “subsidence”, high means the bombs were inaccurate.
T.P. Nonsense! In the 10-dimeter circle the bombs were stacked, is that a little accuracy ?! Drawdown is due to the fact that the Pe-2 is a speedy car. It was possible, of course, to increase the wing span, and then it would jump out immediately, but then it would lose speed and how to fight?
A.S. It is also quite popular to claim that heavy single-engine fighters, such as the FW-190 or Р-46 "Thunderbolt", as dive bombers were more effective than the twin-engine dive bombers, and in battle with enemy fighters they could stand up for themselves, not required an escort. For stormtroopers could "work". In general, they were universal.
T.P. Right. They used the universal, and we are what gives a greater effect in the bombing.
A.S. Do you think the Pe-2 was more efficient as a bomber?
T.P. Well, of course! At Pe-2 there is a double aiming. The first aiming leads the navigator. Directs the car to the calculated angle of demolition on the combat course, sets BUR - the combat turn angle of the sight. If this angle is not taken into account and not set, then when aiming the pilot (already in a dive) the bomber will demolish and you will not hit the target. In addition, the navigator controls the altitude and gives a reset signal, since the pilot looks at the sight and cannot follow the altimeter.
Here the navigator "measures the wind." There is such a device - a wind-breaker, with its help they determine the angle of demolition, i.e. determine the direction, the wind speed and at what angle the aircraft must be turned on the combat course so that it will not be demolished (the pilot does something similar when landing where he also turns the plane towards the wind). Given a certain angle of drift, before diving, the pilot deploys the collimator of his sight. Therefore, when the pilot on a dive carries out a second aiming through his scope, he will not be mistaken because of the demolition, since by aiming the navigator and turning the optical axis of the pilot's sight, the demolition of the vehicle is already compensated.
You can hang as many bombs as you like on a fighter (this is not a tricky business), but you cannot achieve the accuracy of a dump on a dive, because a fighter pilot cannot determine the angle of demolition on a combat course.
The one who does not know these subtleties, thinks that in order to be hit by a dive bomb, the pilot only needs to catch the target, and then go on. It will not go anywhere! Even if you catch it, without taking into account the angle of demolition and the exact height of the dumping, you will not get anywhere. Even if you manage to withstand the height of the discharge (for example, you install the automatic reset), then you will not get away from the error of determining the angle of demolition. And the error in determining the drift angle in 1 (one) degree, already gives the deviation of the hit from the aiming point in 40-50 meters, and you will be mistaken at a much larger angle.
You can, of course, try to compensate for errors in demolition, low dump height and low speed, as in the German Ju-87. I do not argue, "laptezhnik" "dive-bomber" is great, but this is yesterday. Slug and lightly armed. Here we have anti-aircraft guns in abundance, and that’s it, Junkers ended. I flew for a long time to fly, but as a dive-bomber came to an end, I stopped falling, since I had to increase the drop height. And we have more fighters, generally ceased to appear in the sky, such old stuff to our fighter is one tooth.
They are now, in his memoirs, all the sniper, and he would try to tell me how he got into the turret of the tanker, then I would just ask him one question: “And how do you take into account the demolition?” it's all over.
As for the FW-190, then there is the same story, just the demolition will not be taken into account, and the Fokker machine is twice as fast as the Junkers. I saw these “Fokkers” - they bomb bombs aby wherever and “For the Motherland!” Into the clouds from our fighters.
You must understand, Pe-2 was rightfully the main front-line bomber of our Air Force. By law, and not because there was nothing else.
During the war, both the Germans and the allies had bombers faster than the Pe 2. There were those who carried a large bomb load. Were with a strong airborne weapons. Finally, they were more comfortable for the crew. (The same "Boston" is an aircraft for the crew, a very comfortable car, we had a lot of guys flying it, told it.) They were.
But, no air force had a bomber like the Pe-2 that combined all the parameters so successfully: high speed, good bomb load, excellent maneuverability, simplicity and ease of control, strong defensive weapons and, most importantly, the ability to throw dive bombs. In any case, I have not heard about foreign analogs equal in performance and performance characteristics of the Pe-2.
And the one who says that the Pe-2 was a bad dive bomber, neither bombed it himself, nor did he know a damn thing about bombing. Perhaps he can also deceive the “reading” public, but a professional will immediately put it in its place.
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