Military Review

Conversations with Timofey Panteleevich Punev. “No air force had a bomber similar to the Pe 2.”

Conversations with Timofey Panteleevich Punev. “No air force had a bomber similar to the Pe 2.”

I met Timofey Panteleevich Punev by chance. One of my friends somehow let out that she was acquainted with the wife of a military pilot who fought. "Fighting man," she warned me, "but he has temperament ... you will see."

So I was the owner of the phone, which immediately called. At my request to meet, Punev immediately agreed. “What are you Timofey Panteleevich fought on?” “On the" pawns ", on Pe-2". Good.

When meeting Punev immediately seized the initiative. “Yes, what I'm going to tell you, everything is already written. Read on, ”and he handed me a photocopy of some newspaper article. In order to respect the owner read. Between us, the article seemed to me frankly weak. It was written by some date and told about the pilots of the 36 Guards Orders of Suvorov and Kutuzov, the Berlin Bomber Regiment, full of phrases like "... showing unparalleled heroism ...", "... filling their hearts with hatred for the enemy ...", "... but nothing could stop the guards ... "etc. "Deputy political" crap.

“Well, how?” The owner asked me. “Weakly,” I replied diplomatically. “Rubbish,” said Punev, “the only thing that is good in this article is only that it tells about our children, otherwise it will take a little more time and they will forget about us in general.” "And you did not buy anything!" - He praised me - well, come on, ask your questions. I only ask you about one thing, let it be that without lies. ”

A conversation with Punev "captured" me right away, as it always happens when you have an intelligent, knowledgeable, subtle feeling and instantly reacting interlocutor. And Temperament, just like that, with a capital letter.

There was talk about the influence of temperament on his military career. When it came to awards, Punev said: “You know, I don’t have a single award for combat mission.” All my awards “according to the results of the combat period” are when the regiment is taken out for replenishment and re-formation, rewarding the survivors. I am so, if I hear any lies, I spoke immediately, regardless of rank and rank. All expressed in the face, even the chief of staff, even the deputy political director, even a member of the Military Council. Conflict was horror, what kind of awards here. I did not fight for them. And now I think, probably, I fought incorrectly. "

We met several times, the interview being published is the result of several meetings.

Curriculum Vitae: Timofey Panteleevich Punev. Born on August 2, 1922, in the village of Kugult (currently the Stavropol Territory). Father is a surgeon, mother is a paramedic. In 1940, immediately after the end of the decade in the village of Kugult, he entered the Krasnodar School of Military Pilots. Since 1942, at the front. He fought in the 1st separate squadron of high-speed bombers (Karelian Front) and in the 36th Guards Order of Suvorov and Kutuzov, the Berlin Bomber Regiment (1st Ukrainian Front). After the war, he held various positions in the regiments of the 4th Guards Bomber Aviation Corps and the 164th Guards aviation divisions. After the war, he actively flew an IL-28 bomber. Chevalier of many military orders and medals. Last position - chief of the air-rifle training regiment. In 1960, he retired from the armed forces, with the rank of lieutenant colonel. Currently lives in Stavropol.

I tried to preserve as much as possible the uniqueness of the speech of Timofey Panteleevich, a combat pilot, a soldier of the Great Patriotic War, who RIGHT fought.

Cadet Krasnodar flight school Punev. 1940 year.
The photo was taken in the studio of Krasnodar.
From the words of Punev, his mother, who came from Stavropol, visited him in 1940 year. The command of the school gave him six days of vacation (an incredible luxury for a cadet). During the holidays this photo was taken. The only vacation he had from 1940 to 1946 a year.

A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, when and where did you start learning flight training?

T.P. In August 1940, I entered the Krasnodar Flight School.

With 4 class, I dreamed of becoming a pilot. Moreover, it was the pilot bomber. I remember, I just came from Stavropol, and graduates are so beautiful, in full dress, I opened my mouth with delight. Two hundred superhumans, well, I thought so then. Dark blue dress uniform - beauties, suitors, you can go blind.

When I enrolled, the Krasnodar Flight School prepared pilots for bomber aviation and should have had a normal three-year training period, however, our course was shortened and we had to become lieutenants in two years. We were only glad to this - a year less than the long-awaited “kubarey”.

We have just arrived, and have already seen ourselves as lieutenants — commanders of the Red Army. There was a cadet of former gunmen-radio operators in our detachment, he fought in Finnish, and he went to Moscow to receive the order of the Red Banner as a cadet. We had him as the commander of the classroom (for us, a big boss), and we asked him to bring "cubes" to us. He received the order and "Kubari" brought to us, each of four. This is a release that should be in two years!

And then there were rumors. In the army, it is always like that, first there are rumors, which then, surprisingly, are always confirmed. The rumors were one worse than the other and, the worst, that we would not be given commanding ranks, but then we did not pay attention to them.

Suddenly, the December issue, released as junior lieutenants. We walked behind them like a dog lover and teased: “Youngsters, youngest ones!” Well, we were fools then, stupid. Here before them the lieutenants were released, their younger ones, and what will happen to us, we did not think.

And here in January comes another order - to let everyone out by sergeants. We have such overlaps, offensive and stupid. Immediately at these unfortunate junior lieutenants, the "cubes" were torn off, in general, they demoted them to sergeants. And, what is most surprising, not everyone was demoted, but only those who did not manage to receive the appointment. Those who managed the assignment and left before (to the Far East), they remained junior lieutenants, I already learned during the war.

When the war began, we quickly began to write reports, asking to be sent to the front as a volunteer. Full voluntariness, no fools. I also remember all pointing out that we speak German and, in parenthesis, so modestly - “with a dictionary”. Although, God forbid, if at least two dozen words, who knew. Foreign languages ​​and then not the strongest side of education were. It seemed that those who speak German will be sent faster, and we will show Fritz there! Fritz poured when I appear! Now, from the height, of my experience, I can say that I would have been enough for two days at the front.

By the end of the school, I had a total raid of all 40 hours. In reality, all we could do is take off and land. Neither the ability to look around in the air, nor group grouping. "We were all taught a little, something, and something." This is something and somehow - this is about me then. Now I understand that, compared with the Germans, we were wild dropouts, because the Germans produced pilots with a touch of 400 (four hundred) hours. Incredible difference.

I was also released by the sergeant. I became a senior sergeant at the front, after being wounded.

A.S. And, what at you, in school, two releases in a year were?

T.P. Yes. But I don’t remember from what year it started, from 1940 or earlier. Then did not pay attention.

A.S. At the school on what types of aircraft did you study?

T.P. At the school we mastered the following types of aircraft: U-2, SB, P-Z, TB-3.

On the Y-2 - the initial flight training.

On the SB and R-Z worked out combat use. Bombing - mostly with P-Z and, a little, with SAT. They shot at cones and at "land" - this is already with the Security Council.

R-Z was considered secret. This is an option for the P-5, but it had an M-34 engine, not an M-17, as on the P-5. Due to the more powerful engine, the Zeta's speed was higher on 20-30 km / h. M-34 terribly smoked, and the heat in the cabin drove so that in the summer it was extremely difficult and unpleasant to sit in it. Sometimes, you look, the Zet comes in to land, and the head of the cadet overboard. Smoke plus heat - swayed instantly.

A.S. And what in R-Z could be secret? After all old.

T.P. Well, yes, what is "old"? "Thunderstorm of the sky"!

A small digression. At the beginning of the 50-x appears in our IL-28. This is a “front bomber” class aircraft, it takes three tons of bombs, powerful cannon armament, in general, the most modern aircraft. It is classified as implausible, to the extent that the secret manual does not contain the image of the navigator’s cabin, since this cabin already has a super-secret sight OPB-6СР - a bomber riflescope associated with a locator (radar). The sight is so secret that in the super-secret in the instructions for its use there is only a circuit of the kinematic part, without electronics, which (electronics) is already super-super-secret. In addition to jokes, you look at the electronic circuit, and next to you is an automatic machine guard. Here is what secrecy was. Imagine our surprise when, while studying at the 4-th center of combat use in Voronezh, we find in the local library a completely unclassified, complete instruction of the American sight of the Norden company. Unclassified because the Americans either removed this scope from armament or were preparing to remove it. And this is the American "Norden" an exact copy of our OPB-6SR, more precisely, ours - an exact copy of the American. So much for the secrecy! Stolen and classified, because nothing better came up.

You probably think why I give you this history told and what does she have to do with PZ? This is for you to understand when secrets all garbage, it means only one thing - things are really bad. Like our preparation before the war. The “secrecy” of P-Z is from the same family. They hid their own weakness from themselves.

A.S. On TB-3 also bombed?

Not. Initially, TB-3 flew on group exercises, however, they were soon canceled, they considered that it was too risky, and on TB-3, we began to fly "on communication". TB-3 was the only type of aircraft on which the radio station was installed - RSB. Theoretically, it was believed that when we flew, we had to receive from the ground and transmit to the ground, by radio, a different text, and after landing we would compare the result, verify the text. It seems everything is the same, tests passed. But it was bullshit, for all the time I have never heard the “earth” and did not believe that anyone hears me.

The main type of communication between the “land” and the aircraft was the display of the Popham panel (there was such an English marshal). A panel is taken, a “T” is laid out of it, and there are special valves on the canvas that are bent and, by shortening parts of “T”, allow to transmit certain information. The simplest example is: if your left “leg” is not released, then the left half of the “T” is folded on the cloth.

And if it was necessary to transfer something more complicated to the plane, then (I remember the picture from the book), two masts were installed, and between them a bag hung on a cable. P-5 flying low above the ground, hooked package with a hook. That was the connection.

Our radio communication was in an embryonic state. We were cave people, in the sense of radio communication. I don’t remember what this walkie-talkie would use on TB-3, even though someone worked normally.

A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, on what type of aircraft did you fly the most at the school?

T.P. 40 school hours were distributed approximately equally, among all types of aircraft. Although, from school I graduated from the Security Council.

A.S. At the school on the Pe-2 you did not fly?

T.P. Not. Roughly speaking, they didn’t even know that there was such a plane. Although Pe-2 I first saw it at the school.

In the 1941 year, we, as usual, very fruitfully spent the weekend for planting trees. We, the cadets, always went out for a weekend, either planting trees, or digging caponiers for fuel depots. The fact that for such a purpose bulldozers exist or, there, excavators, and the weekend can be somehow different, we had no idea.

So we dig the earth and hear the unusual, sharp ringing above the airfield. We look up, cloudy points, three, and these clouds, literally pierces an unfamiliar plane. It rushes over us, and it has speed !! ... We have 140 km / h at the school, it was considered combat, and here, it seems, 140 is landing. Hear - comes to land. We did not have a concrete strip, and it seems that the pilot "attached" the car with high leveling, dust with a pillar and the car already at the end of the strip. Well, the speed! We are on the plane, and here from all sides: “Where ?! Back! This is a secret plane! ”That's it: you can't show a plane to a cadet, only at the front, when they go to war! So close and not shown. This was the Pe-2, one of the first. I fell in love with this car right away! Rare beauty aircraft! A beautiful plane and flies beautifully.

A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, in which regiment and where did they start fighting?

T.P. In the fall of 1942, I got to go to war. The school was already “rounded out”, because the Germans were completely full to the south. Confusion and panic, but they managed to release us, but I did not go south, but to the Karelian front.

I flew in, and already there the snow is cold and terrible. I got into the 1-th separate aviation squadron of high-speed bombers. It was in her, it seems 15-SB bombers. The squadron personnel had a lot of warfare, my komesk was on fire, I remember a scarred face. We flew with him a little bit to evaluate my flying "skill". "Skill" my not impressed, but once considered a combat pilot, it is necessary to fight. He says to me: “Tomorrow a combat mission is planned. Bear in mind your task is to see only my tail. If you start to look somewhere else and tear yourself away - you are gone. ” That's all he could do to enhance my flying skills. As it turned out a lot ...

I remembered this rule for the whole war and repeatedly convinced of its truth. Those who did not know this rule, forgot it, or, by foolishness, broke away - they knocked them down right away. There are so many of those greens for the war!

The statistics of the bombers was simple: if it was not shot down in the first five combat missions, then it goes into another category, where the chance of shooting down is somewhat less. For example, I was wounded for the first time on the fourth or fifth combat sortie. It hurt easily, I did not even stop flying, and I don’t have any information about this injury. There was no time for references.

If you made ten sorties, then you can already slowly look away from the tail leading. For example, I only began to look at the “tenth flight”, i.e. slowly look around. Looked around, wow! I'm flying! The first nine sorties I didn’t really know where I was flying and what I was bombing, I lost my orientation right away, this was the “dashing falcon”. But did not lose the lead! And on the eleventh sortie I was shot down. Fighters.

A.S. Tell me, Timofey Panteleevich, was the Security Council very outdated by the beginning of the war, or was it a fairly full-fledged bomber?

T.P. Absolutely outdated car. He burned scary. The tanks were unprotected. The speed is small.

The SB was "oak", there is such a thing for pilots. So called the plane, which is so stable that you need to make great efforts to change its course. At the Security Council everything was controlled by cable drives, so the efforts on the steering wheels, it was necessary to put a decent one. At the dacha steering reacted not willingly and slowly. Anti-destructive maneuver on SAT is unreal. One word - "oak".

Airborne weapons are weak - only ShKASy - such an infection! The Germans began to "hammer" us from 800 meters, they would settle in the tail and go ... And the limit of the ShKAS 400 meters.

A.S. In reality, what was the speed of the Security Council and what is the bomb load?

T.P. By TTX 400 km / h, but this is nonsense. On the 400-x Sat shook, it seems about to collapse. Yes, and would fall apart if they were flying. Really 320 km / h. Bomb load 600 kg.

A.S. Fighter cover then, in the 1942 year, was it?

T.P. Sometimes. Of those eleven sorties, we were covered two or three times with I-16 fighters and, it seems, just once, with “hurricanees”. However, I did not see them. I looked behind the lead tail. The fact that there will be a cover or not, we were told at the preflight briefing, from here I remember

A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, tell me, in this eleventh sortie, how many were you and how many German fighters? Did our fighters cover you?

T.P. Flew nine. Fighter cover was not. They bombed, and on the way back the Germans caught up with us. Our height was about five thousand. How many were there? And the devil knows them! I realized that they were shooting at me only when the shells began to tear, and a sharp pain in my left leg. I did not see any fighters. Absolutely sudden attack.

The left engine caught fire. Fell out of order. It would be necessary to jump, because the tanks can easily jerk, but I do not know where I am! Whether over our territory, or over occupied. Such a “proud falcon”, but jumping into captivity is not for me. The speed of 190, the car is on fire, you need to go home, and where is it home? Until the fire partitions burned out, I fastened and flew. The flame thundered! And as the partitions burned out, somewhere on the 3500, I jumped out of the cab and jumped out. He jumped out so that the parachute could be opened near the ground, he was afraid that the German fighters would shoot me in the air. Landed at ours, however, at the foot of the hole, hip ripped.

A.S. The navigator and the shooter jumped out by then?

T.P. And the devil knows them! There was no SPU on the Security Council, so we could not conduct negotiations.

A.S. So, on the SAT there was no communication between the crew members?

T.P. There was a connection, her mother! Pneumatic mail. Such an aluminum tube went along the fuselage, tied cabins. You write a note in the “patron” of it and into the pipe, either to the navigator or to the radio operator. A special “accordion” “chukhnul” several times and all ... “To the village of my grandfather. Konstantin Makarich ". Utter foolishness! I remember this ...! Rave! Not preparing for war, but ...! Chkalov, Gromov flew, the whole country was tense, but this is for agitplakats, and if you take the reality, the state is terrible.

A.S. But what about without SPU did the navigator take you to the combat course?

T.P. And I had three bulbs on my dashboard. "Red to the left, green to the right, white to straight." Their navigator from his cabin lit. Nonsense and rubbish.

In general, I bombed "in the lead." He opened the hatches - I opened, he had the bombs "gone" - I, too, was starting to pour.

You know, at the school it seemed that there was no plane that was more beautiful and better than the Security Council, and now I can’t even hear about it.

A.S. I heard that the Germans began to shoot our pilots who survived on parachutes later, somewhere in 1943.

T.P. Not. Already in the year 1942 practiced in full. Easily. It happened in 1941 that the Germans of our downed pilots were buried with military honors, this was what the warring guys told me. When you attack 50 km per day, it is just right for the enemy to shout: “Hey! Stop it! Give me a break! ”Then it is possible to play nobility with knighthood. By the end of 1942, the Germans realized that they had “fumbled” thorough and that was all, their noble games were over.

A.S. Are you at the location of our parts landed?

T.P. Not. It turned out more interesting there.

While sitting in the cab and when flying to the ground there was no fear. Fair. In general, everything was happening to me. When landing, whether from pain, or from blood loss, I lost consciousness. Awoke from the fact that someone drags me. For the lines grabbed and drags through the snow. Pulls silently. Trying to figure out our or Finns? "Well, I think - if we were dragging ours, they would have guessed the suspension system to take me off." So the Finns. Trying to grope a gun. I felt for it, but I can’t take it, my gloves flew off in my air, my hands were frozen, my fingers weren’t working. Such an insult took me, to my helplessness, that I began to swear. The most terrible words. Suddenly I heard: “I woke up! Nice, lively! I drag you, dragging ... "Some girl. It turned out that I landed a few kilometers from the village where their hospital was located (she worked there and dragged me there). This girl was returning to her village and saw me leave the plane. Since the plane was ours, she immediately ran to me. Well, they took rest (and she dragged me for a long time) and then it was already more fun.

I was lucky implausible. Lucky for not exploding in the air. I was lucky that the Germans did not shoot. When landing with a wounded leg was not killed - also lucky. Lucky that girl found me right away. I was lucky that I froze my hands, so the girl, when she was dragging me "unconscious", did not shoot me. I would have shot and froze because I could not move because of my legs. And finally - there was a hospital in the village, in which I was immediately operated on my leg and, with that, I kept it, this is so luck. I generally, the whole war, was very lucky.

A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, how did you start fighting on Pe-2?

T.P. Lying in the hospital, I rushed to the front, honestly, not a fool. I was afraid that they would recognize me as worthless, since my leg was turned upside down. I did not manage to get rid of how much I did not train. Frankly limped and how not practiced gait - nothing came of it. After the war, I still operated this leg in a new way and the fragments still sit in it. But then nothing, the commission passed, found fit.

After I was discharged from the hospital, 1 February 1943, I got into the 4 th air brigade, she stood in Kazan, and the brigade was 18-y ZAP (alternate air regiment). In ZAPe, immediately began retraining on Pe-2.

It was a good aviation tradition that every pilot, after school or hospital, had to go through a reserve regiment. It was only at the end of the war that the pilots immediately fell into the combat regiments, when we past the war already had “bison”. And then, in 1943, only through REC. It was right.

Sat forgot only Pe-2! I almost prayed to this Pe-2. This is a plane! Many pilots were afraid of him, and I loved him very much.

I was very zealous, so retraining took me a little, about four months, and 40-50 hours in flight time. In ZAP, many exercises were practiced, a full course of combat use: dive bombardment, this was the main type of bombing, horizontal bombing, but this is less. They also fired at ground targets, fired at a cone, these were exchange guns. The arrows and the navigator also shot along the cone. Relationship link worked out. "Tightly" studied, not that in school. Landfill with the airfield was very close, literally, only took off and the bomb. They bombed the usual bombs, not training. All flights were made by a full crew. I was greedy before these flights, I wanted to get to the front faster.

Four months later, the “merchants” flew in and took me to their regiment, in which it passed to the end of the war, in 36, the SBAT, which by the end of the war had become the 36 Guards Orders of Suvorov and Kutuzov, the Berlin Bomber Aviation Regiment. The regiment then fought on the 1-m Ukrainian front and led heavy air battles. I started there as an ordinary pilot, a senior sergeant, and ended the war as a flight commander, officer.

A.S. You said that many pilots Pe-2 were afraid. Why did it happen?

T.P. When you have only 5-15 flying hours on a bomber, then it is very difficult to tame such a high-speed and powerful “beast” like the Pe-2. Hence the fear

A.S. How many aircraft were there in the 36 regiment? Aircraft which plant were in the regiment? What was the difference between cars from different factories?

T.P. Let's count. Three squadrons of the whole, on 9 aircraft. Now - management link, 3 machines. And the 3-4 vehicles are in reserve, without crews. Total 33-34 aircraft. Since 1944, each air regiment already had a minimum of 10 unmanned airplanes in reserve, then it became a minimum of 40 airplanes per regiment.

The planes went to the regiment from two factories, Kazan and Irkutsk. Differ only in color, otherwise absolutely identical cars.

A.S. The cab of the Pe-2 was comfortable, was there a review, equipment, armored seat?

T.P. Very comfortable. Great, car for a fight. The review is good. Forward, sideways very well. Back, of course, there was no review, back navigator and gunner-radio operator watched.

Equipped was very good. Compared with our other aircraft, just great, the whole complex of flight instruments. For those times, it seemed to us an incredible abundance of instruments, and artificial horizon, and GPC (gyropolupass) to a magnetic compass, etc. The whole set, all that is necessary. The pilot had a collimator sight PBP, the sight provided both aiming during a dive, and shooting from course guns. The navigator was OPB (optical). Good sights, high accuracy provided.

Brunostekol was not, plexiglass. The pilot had a very reliable bronespinka, with an armored headpiece, by the way, he basically prevented the review back.

The pilot's seat was very well regulated, back and forth and up and down.

A.S. Used oxygen equipment, if so, how often? The reliability of this equipment?

T.P. Seldom. We practically didn’t fly above 4000 m, and there the young healthy guy doesn’t need oxygen. But, it was always ready. Worked reliably.

A.S. How difficult was it to leave the cab, was the lantern dropped at high speed?

T.P. The lantern was dropped easily and it was easy to leave the cabin, but it had the biggest constructive flaw. From the LDPE tube (Pitot), which sticks out above the cabin, to the tail washers went along one wire antenna, a communication and command one. When the lantern is dropped, and the pilot or navigator jumps out, he could get under one of the wires and “slide” along it to the leading edge of the tail washer, which literally chopped off his head. Naturally, flew off like a watermelon.

In our case, this is always the case, where the designer will not do, the ordinary soldier there easily. Our craftsmen changed the design of mounting the antennas by making special “ears” and introducing an additional cable with which the lantern dropped, “jerked” the antennas from the LDPE tube. Brilliant and simple. According to the same system, then they began to make antennas right at the plants. More problems with leaving the cabin was not.

A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, how complicated was the Pe-2 to manage?

T.P. The machine is extremely light. The Pe-2 found the optimal, I would say excellent, ratio between ease of management and stability. And she walked steadily, and reacted instantly to the steering wheels. Incredibly balanced aircraft.

Pe-2 was a new step in Soviet aviation. He was unusually electrified. Everything was done by him with electricity: cleaning and release of the chassis, brake pads, trimmers, flaps; in general, everything that used to be done with cable drives. Therefore, efforts on the steering wheels were needed minimal.

On landing, however, with a decrease in speed, we had to “hold” very carefully.

A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, in your opinion, how true are the veterans' stories about the disgusting landing characteristics of the Pe-2 ("goat", etc.), which (characteristics), according to them, "... killed more crews than Fritz"?

T.P. Fly must be able to! Do not know how to fly, do not blather!

I want to tell you ... After the war, I was in Kazan at the grave of Petlyakov. And there were different inscriptions on the monument, and not the most pleasant ones as well. Swear, speaking straight. I declare: Petlyakov did not deserve this abuse! Pe 2 machine is gorgeous!

When landing, a lot of pilots fell on the “fourth turn”, when the speed was minimal and if the “leg” was slightly “handed over” then - fute! Was already in the ground. It was, but ... when on a combat course, an anti-aircraft gun hits (and it hits according to certain mathematical laws), and I have to give something to this mathematical counterweight. I have to maneuver. So, when the anti-aircraft gun hits, you “punch” the “punch” and it abruptly slides away from the anti-aircraft fire, and then no one, for some reason, has fallen.

Handling Pe-2 was great. I will tell you a chance to rate. With us was the following episode:

Vitya Glushkov. We go on a combat course to bomb Krakow. Large city, the air defense is the strongest. We go on three, not more. And as the projectile slammed him into the plane, it punched a hole - a car, hop! and lay on his back. And the bombs are hanging! We usually took 800 kg. He laid him on his back, he sput-pyr - the astroluk does not open, the entrance hatch does not open - it is jammed. This is understandable, loaded on the wings, deformed the fuselage and simply “squeezed” all the hatches. He is there like a sparrow rushing around the cabin, but can not do anything. And the car is coming! Normal horizontal flight, only lying on his back. Up wheels, with a bomb load! We look, this "sparrow" has ceased to rush about, sits. Sat-sat, then, oh! and again brought her to normal flight. Bombed and flew home. We then say to him: “She didn’t allow you to go into captivity, you fool!” - because in such a situation, as it turned out he had to jump.

I'll tell you more. Typically, a dive is at an angle of 70 degrees. We had guys who, being carried away, entered the plane into a dive at a greater or even negative angle (which is a mistake of course), but even in this case the Pe-2 never lost control and the car went out perfectly.

On landing, many “fought” not because the car was bad, but because these pilots were completely untrained.

A.S. In winter, flew in fur overalls?

T.P. And in the summer.

A.S. How did it affect the ease of management, review? Did it bother you?

T.P. Well no. The cabin was spacious and comfortable, the overalls did not interfere.

A.S. And what were the options for flight uniforms during the war?

T.P. Overalls winter, demi-season and summer. Summer is the usual fabric. Demi-season is a two-, three-layer durable fabric, and between layers of a layer like a batting and a bike. It was used most often. Winter - fur. We did not have flight jackets, they appeared after the war.

A.S. What shoes was it? Did you have flight shoes?

T.P. In the summer - boots, in the winter - high boots. High-laced boots, we first appeared after the war, captured, German. During the war there were no shoes.

A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, used shoulder straps?

T.P. Everyone enjoyed both shoulder and waist, because in battle it was possible to thunder like that ...

A.S. Cabin heating was?

T.P. Not. It was cold in winter, there were holes everywhere, and from the navigator’s side, the cabin was, in fact, open and into the machine-gun embrasures.

Sometimes, if the hands “zadubeyut”, then simply, strongly you start to hit the board, and so long until in your fingers “zaschiplet”.

A.S. Did everyone have a Pe-2 radio station and SPU?

T.P. Yes. Two radio stations. The command of the pilot (I do not remember what was called), the connected RSB-2 of the gunner-radio operator. Stood on all machines. The command station was supposed to provide communication between the machines in the air and the pilot with the airfield, and a coherent "long-range" connection with the ground. It was on Pe-2 and SPU. That century, when there was pneumomail, was gone.

A.S. Did the radio stations work reliably?

T.P. Not. It was our trouble then and trouble now. In these radio stations there wasn’t what was called quartz stabilization, they were noisy, background sounds, they were terribly cracking. The command, the pilots, happened to be turned off, because all this roar, noise and cacophony were difficult to bear. The connection was disgusting. It used to be that the command station worked so disgustingly that it was necessary to keep communication with neighboring machines through a radio operator, this is bad, the efficiency disappears completely. In general, going off in flight, they never knew how the stations would behave. Whether the connection will be bad, or more or less. Good never happened.

The laryngophones were large and uncomfortable, like boxes. Their necks were thoroughly irritated, even a silk scarf did not help. In the midst of hostilities, when there are many flights, they all walked with persistent irritation of the neck, because these boxes beat the skin with electricity. In addition, it was necessary to knock on the laryngophones from time to time, otherwise coal powder “sinter” into them and they stopped working.

SPU, unlike walkie-talkies, worked very well, loudly and cleanly.

Happening. We stood in Rzeszow (this is in Poland) and landed on our airfield a padded American Flying Fortress B-17. He sat down on his stomach, the crew was sent to their own, and the plane remained at our airport, no one was going to restore it, apparently. We climbed on this B-17, wanted to see what the allies are fighting. The American "Laryngs" surprised us! For real. The size of a Soviet three-kopeck coin and as thick as three coins is a pile. Our radio arrows quickly riveted them so that they could be connected to our stations. The thing is the most convenient. As regards radio electronics, we lagged behind allies (and indeed from the Germans).

We also wanted to see American sights, but we didn't find a damn thing. It turns out that during a rough landing, the Americans had a self-destruct system, and all the little bit secret equipment self-destructed in small explosions. I learned about self-destruction after the war.

A.S. Radio station on the target from the ground was?

T.P. Not. Our radios more or less provided only communication between the crews in the air. We often did not hear the earth, and they often did not hear us.

We have one interesting episode with the radio station.

When the Berlin operation went, we suffered rather heavy losses. And from anti-aircraft fire and fighters. Despite the fact that the war was coming to an end, the Germans flew to the last. The Germans did not fly some kind of shantrap, and they flew "be calm!". If he came in and successfully - “write hello!”.

Somehow we shot down two of us. I do not remember whether fighters, or anti-aircraft guns, and it does not matter. There is an analysis, all, of course, dull. Every day for two to lose - it's a bit too much! The regiment commander, Major Korotov, takes the word: “Comrade commander — he appeals to the regiment — I suggest: when our pilots are on a combat course or conduct air combat, send inspirational slogans from the command post:“ For the Motherland! For Stalin! Forward! ”The regiment commander Major A real intellectual, tolerant and tactful was incredible, he never raised his voice. But here we see a purple-reddening, and then: “Sit Major Korotov! I always knew that you ... hmm ... stupid, but did not know so much! ”

A.S. What were the real bomb loads of Pe-2?

T.P. Pe-2 easily took 1200 kg. This is if you take off from concrete airfields. True, the maneuver with such a burden is difficult. These are six bombs in bomb holes (three each on cluster holders), under the center section two and two, and two in the nacelles. Bombs "weave."

We, for a fight, usually took 800 kg in "weave". And you take off from the ground without problems, and maneuverability, despite such a load, is very good.

During the bombing of Breslau, we hung 4 on 250 kg on the outer suspension, respectively, flew with 1000 kg.

Several times they took the "five hundred" - the maximum for our caliber - two pieces.

They bombed PTAB, their internal suspension, in two cassettes, out of 400 pieces. According to 2,5 kg bomb, the "circle" is also 1000 kg.

A.S. Internal suspension which maximum caliber bombs allowed?

T.P. "Weaving." 100 kg.

"250" already on the bomber holder is not secured, although it can, and would fit into the bomb bay.

A.S. What was the defensive armament of the machine?

T.P. The defensive armament was as follows: the navigator had a large-caliber "Berezin", the shooter at the upper hemisphere of the ShKAS, and the lower hatch installation also "Berezin". True, at first ShKAS was also at the navigator, well, this is “not at any gate” and the guys in the regiment themselves reworked the navigator installation under the “Berezin” or invented any kind of devilry to “portray” a heavy machine gun.

The navigator also had AG-2, aircraft grenades, such as a parachute. Push the button, it flies off and explodes in 300-400 meters. I do not know of a single case that at least one German fighter would be shot down by these grenades, but the Germans quickly got out of combat. So, these AGs were a pretty sensible thing.

Well, plus to everything, the pilot had two course machine guns - the right-hand "Berezin" and the left ShKAS.

A.S. Bomb these AG did not try?

T.P. And how to bomb them? Did not even think. They are there in the tail in the cassette, used only during the air battle.

A.S. Was the effectiveness of defensive weapons in general and the low firing point in particular enough?

T.P. Defensive weapons were effective. If the system keeps - try come here!

As for the bottom firing point. It not only reflected the attack of fighters from below, but also from it the arrows fired on the ground. This point was effective. The shooter had a periscopic sight, which provided quite a decent overview and accuracy of firing.

A.S. Radioman from his ShKAS up fire led often?

T.P. Seldom. During the battle, the navigator "held" the upper hemisphere, the radio operator - the lower. It was worked out. If the navigator fired, the radio operator did not even stick up. And there is no time for him to look up, his task is to cover from below.

CABIN radio operator, usually located in the side of the pivot. In the compartment of the radio operator, there was a window on each side, and each of these windows had a device for mounting the ShKAS pivot. Depending on what place the slave was occupied by the plane, right or left, the SHKAS was usually installed on that side. If the need arose in battle, ShKAS could be quickly and easily transferred to the other side. The radio operator with his ShKAS up began to work only if the navigator for some reason could not lead the fire. It happened, when it was necessary to repel an urgent attack, then the radio operators, who were physically stronger, shot up “from the hands”, i.e. not fastening machine gun. Of course, they didn’t get anywhere, but the fighter was attacked, he left the combat course.

A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, defensive weapons worked reliably?

T.P. Reliably Sometimes there were problems with ShKAS, and the “Berezina” worked very reliably.

A.S. Were there cases when the navigator or gunner-radio operator took additional ammunition?

T.P. Not. Well, where will he take it? Tapes gird? He has nowhere to take. There is no extra space in the cabs.

A.S. In the “Urapatriotic” literature, descriptions of such a case slip through that the fighter from the fire of the navigator “hides” behind the washer of the helm and the navigator, shooting through the puck, knocks him down. So to say, of two evils - damaged tail or being shot down - chooses the least. This is real?

T.P. Theoretically, yes, just how will they then sit down? I have not heard of such a shooting.

In reality, this was most likely the case. The navigator in the heat of battle "cut off" the puck (which could well have been), and this is a tribunal. The rest of the crew, knowing about such a thing, confirmed the invented bike about the “hiding” fighter, so that they would not let their navigator under the tribunal. But, I repeat, I have not heard of such cases.

It is much easier for the pilot to “move his foot” a bit and because of the puck the fighter will come out. Separated keels gave the navigator magnificent shelling sectors, for these keels to hide a fighter is a problem.

A.S. When did you begin to dive in a real combat situation?

T.P. At once. For such purposes as bridges, railway trains, artillery batteries, etc., they tried to bomb only with a dive.

A.S. Did you personally immediately start bombing with a dive or were you bombing horizontally first? Were there brake grids, and how often was a dive practiced? The ratio of diving and horizontal bombing?

T.P. How to bomb, with a dive or horizontally, I did not decide. The type of bombardment depended on the target and, most importantly, on the weather.

Lattices have always been, of course, but how can they be displayed without them? According to the instructions, the input to the dive is 3000 m, the output is 1800 m, and two out of it are the pilot and the automatic dive. And the machine turns on, with the release of gratings. Here on the 1800, the automat works and trims the trimmer. But the real way out of a dive is obtained at a lower height, because what exists is what is called a “drawdown”, and this is also 600-900 meters. If there were no grids, then they would have stuck to the ground from a subsidence. That is, the actual output height was usually in the 1100-1200 area of ​​m.

Dives were five times less. Unfortunately.

A.S. And why less picks?

T.P. Because of weather. The war weather does not wait. If the height of clouds is below 3000 thousands, then it was necessary to bomb from horizontal flight.

A.S. When diving, the fault of the machine, any risky situations arose?

T.P. The fault of the car is not, dived and was displayed perfectly. The fault of the crew was.

It used to be that the pilot had to dodge the “squeeze” car. The need for "boosting" appears when the navigator made a mistake when aiming. Then the pilot, in order to keep the target in sight, has to constantly increase the dive angle (“squeeze”). As a result of this, after dumping, the car is behind and below its own bombs and, on withdrawal, the bombs just fall on the plane. Cases are the most incredible, but they were. That was the recbus croxword. And how to reset them? The “chicken pox” flew off, the fuses cocked, the bomb “ready”, just touch it. Guys, in such cases, for a couple of minutes saddles. But, our regiment was lucky, no one exploded.

A.S. With a dive bombing much more accurate?

T.P. Much, much more accurate.

A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, tell me, was it really possible to get from a dive to such a target as a tank?

T.P. Not. We considered it to be a hit when bombs fall within 40-50 m from the aiming point, and often fit in 10. B tank 10 meters will not be, it is only by chance.

A.S. But the German dive bombers in their memoirs write that they almost got the tank in the tower.

T.P. Yeah. A driver in the nose. It is he at home, behind a glass of schnapps, he can tell similar tales. I would try to tell me, I would bring him to clean water.

A.S. Did you dive from a dive individually, by “direct approach” or from a “circle” (“turntable”)? Did you bomb dive with a pair, a link?

T.P. Basically they were bombed by links, three planes each, sometimes by fives. Could and individually, for example, during the "hunt" or intelligence. These types of tasks were carried out by a single aircraft. It is more desirable to bomb single-handedly, it is easier to correct mistakes.

In battle, bombed from a direct approach, the "turntable" only worked out in training flights, in battle it was not used. "Pinwheel" requires a tip from the ground, and the connection with us ... yes, I told you. In addition, the planes in the "turntable" is very vulnerable to the actions of enemy fighters. It was the Fritz at the beginning of the war that “fattened” this “whirlpool”, and then when our fighters became prosperous, so at first their “whirlpool” ended, and then the bomber aircraft.

A.S. What was the "hunt" for Pe-2?

T.P. Usually the task was set as follows (I give in an abstract manner): “To clear the railway station from point such and that to point such and that,” these are kilometers 50-100, for us it is not a distance. So we rush over this haul, and if someone is caught, then all - “fiery greetings!” Will not go anywhere, spread

They flew only single aircraft. Loaded both suspension, sometimes only internal. The speed on the “hunt” is the most important, because the “hunt” in the war is like this: part you are a hunter, part - a hare ..

A.S. How many dive visits have you made?

T.P. It was that way. When diving it is impossible to use the internal suspension. Fritz internal suspension used, they have a special lever for the ejection of bombs was, and we have not even like this designed. Therefore, it came out that, by the first approach, they swooped down, dropping bombs from the external suspension, and then by the second approach with the 1100-1200, they bombed horizontally, freeing the internal one.

When we bombed Breslau, we hung 4 bombs on 250 kg on an external suspension and dived two dives each. But the second dive is risky, it is necessary to gain height again, and this takes time.

The photo engineer squadron Monastyrev Nikolai.
The photo shows the emblem of the pilot - "cat". Unfortunately, this plane was not Punev, he did not have pictures of his car.

A.S. Were they put on the RS planes?

T.P. We do not have.

A.S. Have any weapons enhancement activities been carried out?

T.P. After the 1943, the pilot began to put a large-caliber machine gun, no measures to strengthen the weapons was not carried out. As soon as they put the large-caliber navigator, the Pe-2’s armament for defensive air combat became simply magnificent.

A.S. At what distance do the course guns shoot?

T.P. 400 meters. Everything weapon at 400 meters.

A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, have you ever "stormed" on a Pe-2? In general, the attack on the Pe-2 conducted?

T.P. Not. That made no sense. No one stormed. There were enough attack aircraft, which were engaged in this "haircut". We are bombers, we have a serious matter. Artbatarei, driveways, staffs, fortified. You don’t make much of them, you can’t do anything with machine gun fire, you need powerful bombs there.

PTAB bombing is the closest to ground attack. There, the height of the bombing 350-400 m.

I fired machine guns at ground targets only in ZAP, not even at the front.

A.S. And on the "hunt", on targets for which the bombs are a pity to spend, there are single cars, etc., did not try to destroy their course guns?

T.P. Me not. What for? Down to go risky, the car is not armored, any bullet may be the last. For such purposes, the shooter from his hatch installation will “work out” superbly, I do not need to go down for this.

A.S. What height will it be?

T.P. It fluctuated between 350 and 1200 meters. Usually 500-700 meters. From these heights, the shooter perfectly took out of his "Berezina", shoot down easily, bullets fly well down.

A.S. PTBami bombed often?

T.P. Often. It was a very effective type of bombing. As soon as the accumulation of equipment or tanks where noted, so they sent us to process it with PTAB. Even from one plane 400 PTABs fly away in a cloud, if you get under it - it will not seem a little. And we usually processed clusters of 9 technology or 15 aircraft. So imagine what happened down there. PTAB is a serious bomb, albeit a small one.

Here's a case from 45.

It all started with Yuri Gnusarev, who was sent to explore. The weather was foul - dense smoke and horizontal visibility no more than a kilometer away, which is not a distance for a high-speed aircraft. He reports on the radio: "Beat on Biskau, there are tanks!" They urgently recruit 15-crews, three fives, the most experienced, those who will surely cope. In their number and I got. The lead navigator there should be a “bison” and this was Kostya Borodin, the navigator by vocation. We flew, I do not know how anyone, but my soul was in heels. Slightly miss the navigator, and "fit in" we are in the city, there’s no shit. We flew on 350 meters, climb a little higher and the land is no longer visible. But Kostya worked clearly. Brought us right to this column. The accumulation of technology capital. We, through the haze, saw this technique at the first approach, but only directly below us. Bomb, of course, you can not. If we drop, bombs in front of the target will fall. Fritz "were silent", did not shoot, apparently or thought that we did not see them, or we jumped out too suddenly. Most likely, both that, and that. But we are "hooked", doing a U-turn with three fives for bombing. Well, when we went the second run, they realized that they had discovered and opened heavy fire. They glimpsed incredibly, from everything - from machine guns to anti-aircraft guns. We dropped the bombs, but we are going straight ahead, we need to conduct photo control. I, those extra seconds, I will not forget the coffin.

Landing - "Hurray!" No one was shot down. I was the last to sit down, pleased to crawl out of the cabin, waiting for my traditional “bull” technique. (We had a custom. When I land, he smoked my cigarette. Only the engines muffled and immediately, the first puff, almost in the cockpit. Such enjoyment after the fight!) I’m happy - I see that I have taxed everything, but he gloomy I told him: “You what?” “Yes you, commander, look!” There are cars standing - there is no place for the living. Riddled terribly, who does not have half the tail, who has a hole - the head will crawl through. Began to watch ours. Not a scratch! Then, when they began to look carefully, they found a bullet scratch on the radome of the right oil radiator. Everything! I was damn lucky.

Already considering the photocontrol, we were told: “Well, you freaked out!” Then, on the next day, ground reconnaissance reported that we had destroyed the 72 tank on this sortie, not counting any other technology. Very effective departure, I would say outstanding.

A.S. Did the pilot often use machine guns in battle? If you had to use them, how did you personally shoot - with adjustments for the tracers, or just the exact turn to kill?

T.P. Yes, course machine guns used often. I remember starting from them to shoot, then a full cabin of smoke.

The fact is that some "funny" Fritz were forgotten. He goes to the attack from below from behind, and in order to keep the speed he jumps forward and goes steeply up onto the vertical, “shows the cross”, and this “cross” directly into my sight. I have two "fun ones". (I did not receive any awards, I did not receive anything for them, I have an awkward language for my superiors.) Although everyone saw that I had slashed them. I remember when I knocked down the first one, they told me: “Well, you are a well-done Corporal (this was my call sign, I’m from the sergeants, although I was already an officer), well, you cut it off!” I say: climb ?! ”

There were no pre-emptions and adjustments here, as he “showed the cross,” I only had triggers - kx-x! and all! What is my merit here? No. Do not go under my machine guns!

No, course machine guns are a very necessary thing. I carried two stars on board for shooting down, and we had guys who had five stars each.

A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, what was the consumption of ammunition in combat?

T.P. The navigator was “burned out” completely, the gunner-radio operator almost, and often completely, the pilot could not shoot one, but the whole one. Everything depended on the fight. The radio operator spent part of the ammunition working "on the ground", but not addicted. You never know, you suddenly have to fight back from fighters, but there are no cartridges.

A.S. The shooter purposefully hit the anti-aircraft guns, or “what do you have”?

T.P. According to "what will have", what would be more terrible to the enemy.

A.S. Planes shot down by a pilot, marked the stars, and the navigator and the shooter?

T.P. Exactly the same stars. One crew, all in common.

A.S. Question: Which of the navigators and shooters shot down? - did not occur? As far as I know, several crews often fire at one attacking fighter in battle.

T.P. Never. Fair. Always knew exactly who shot down. Never and no friction when dealing with this issue did not arise.

A.S. And what is the maximum number of downed fighters accounted for by the most successful navigators and shooters of your regiment?

T.P. Five.

A.S. What was the climb rate of Pe-2?

T.P. And the devil knows. I never asked myself this question. We were then quite satisfied, to the front line we gained the required height quite easily.

A.S. Real speed Pe xnumx?

T.P. Cruising with bombs - 360 km / h. On the combat course - 400. Departure from the target to 500. On a dive to 720.

A.S. Maneuverability at Pe-2 suit you?

T.P. Great maneuverability! For me - above all praise. I told you, “put my foot” and hop !, you are already in this place.

A.S. Was it possible to perform aerobatics on Pe-2? If so, did you use this feature in battle?

T.P. You can, but it was forbidden. We had a pilot Banin, somehow he flew around the plane, accelerated and spun a barrel over the airfield. X-time and the second! He sits down, and right there he sticks to the brig. And then the next day, the corps commander flew in, the famous ace Polbin, “rode” to the regiment and to Banin. We sat, sat, drew, drew, and then Polbin took off and twisted two “barrels” too. “Pawn” did these things easily, but only the pilots did not.

A.S. And why? Well, in a tight order of battle, it’s understandable that you’re not going anywhere, but on the “hunt”, it seems, all you have to do is spin.

T.P. Not. In flying with a fighter spinning is a losing matter in advance, anyway, almost all the aerobatics performs better and faster. The main maneuver of avoiding a fighter is a sharp change of course in height and uncoordinated left-right. The “pawn” did these things superbly - by a throw! Plus the “golden dream” is the shortest course home and, of course, the fire of the navigator and the shooter.

A.S. That is, I understood that you didn’t perform any “scissors” maneuvers in the ranks?

T.P. Not. "Hard" build - the key to success. All maneuvers and "throws", only within the system.

A.S. Engine M-105PF - suit you, its power, reliability? How often did the motors fail and for what reason - wear, maintenance?

T.P. M-105PF is a very reliable engine, there were almost no failures, only damage in battle.

The only thing that happened was the gear teeth, but these were isolated cases. Sometimes it still broke the rod, but it is on a worn engine and is also very rare. There was no such thing on the new engines.

The power of the M-105 was, in general, sufficient, but the Pe-2 just “asked” the engine under the 1700 hp, such as the M-107. With him, a “pawn” would be an exceptional plane, and with “one hundred and fifth” it would be “just” cool.

Engine service was "on the level."

A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, did you fly with M-105 engines?

T.P. No, when I started to fly already stood forced.

A.S. Did the pitch of the screw change, was it convenient to control the pitch of the screw, did you often use the pitch change?

T.P. Constantly and often used the change step. Virtually changing each flight mode, there take-off, cruising, etc., required a step change. It was not a problem and it worked reliably.

At first, out of stupidity, before the dive they removed the gas, they thought the drawdown would be less, but it was nonsense. Then they threw it away, take it away, don't take it away, anyway 720 km / h, the “pawn” literally hangs on the screws.

A.S. Fast and Furious was?

T.P. Not.

There were limitations on the number of turns on lightweight screws - on 2550 turns, no more than 3 minutes. In this mode, and so long the engine worked only on takeoff. We even when the front line crossed above 2400 did not lift. If you do more, then the gain in speed is minimal, and the engines can be “planted” easily.

A.S. Altitude engine suit you?

T.P. Is complete. I told you, we didn’t climb above 4000. As three thousand passed - then the boost was transferred to the 2-th stage and order.

A.S. Were there any interruptions in parts? How were complaints filed?

T.P. From 1943, the material support of the bomber air regiments was at the highest level, spare parts went smoothly, any. From the engines to the motors. About complaints: I do not remember, the cars were going to high quality.

Although when I flew to the Kazan factory to get airplanes, walked around the workshops, I honestly shook it. There is such a master at the lathe, and under the feet two drawers, otherwise the machine will not reach. Guys, chronically hungry. If the pigeon flew into the workshop, then everything, the work stopped and the hunt for game began. All flying pigeons fell into the soup, knocked them with their slingshots. Cracked in my soul, because when we dive, the car already rings. To whom do I trust life? Boys. But collected quality. The “pawn” overloaded to 12 withstand and nothing, did not fall apart.

Our regiment was given a part of the aircraft by the Kazan University (Lenin was still studying there). More precisely, the machines were manufactured with funds raised by teachers and students of this university. I had the honor of flying one of these cars. We, those who flew on these machines and survived (there are about ten of us left) after the war, met with teachers of this university in Kazan. I am grateful to these people.

The only thing I remember was that some techies complained that they hadn’t delivered fluids with tetraethyl lead, but since the flights did not stop, they apparently did deliver it.

A.S. So, that you yourself "disturbed" the liquid?

T.P. I do not know, it was not my business. I remember there were conversations. Why I remembered - the offensive was going, the very height and we were afraid that we would "land", since there would be no gasoline.

A.S. Aircraft launch - by air or auto starter?

T.P. Pe-xnumx - by air. Autostarter Sat launched.

A.S. How much fuel does Pe-2 have? Have you ever used hanging tanks?

T.P. Somewhere for three hours of flight, it is 1000-1100 km. Suspended tanks never used.

A.S. Did you fly with a permanent crew?

T.P. With constant. There from a half-word it is necessary to understand each other. Of course, sometimes the composition of the crew changed, for various reasons, from death and injury (which was quite often) to promotion (which was rare), but any change in the composition was only an order. Flew carriages tried not to break, flew crew - force.

A.S. Technical staff: staff, number, conditions of service of the aircraft?

T.P. Let's list. Let's start with the link. Technician level - he is responsible for the engines. Gunsmith link - for weapons. Then they relied on each aircraft: a mechanic, two mechanics, a gunsmith, and an instructor.

A.S. What were the lifetimes of the Pe-2 at the front?

T.P. 30 departures, combat naturally. Then the plane went somewhere. In general, write off. They took a new one.

A.S. What was the survivability of the enemy fire?

T.P. Very high. I did not have to be chased, I was lucky. But it happened that people came, then with holes in the plane, in holes, the whole was a natural sieve, then the puck beat off, then the half stabilizer fell off. And the car came, and sat down.

Kindle Pe-2 was not easy. The Pe-2 had tanks retouched, the protector was well tightened - not every bullet is deadly. Next, the system NG (neutral gas). The navigator at the entrance to the fire zone (and some immediately after take-off) switches the NG lever and starts sucking in the tanks from the exhaust, filling the empty space of the tanks with an inert gas.

A.S. Were there cases of "forced on the belly"? How dangerous is it to land for a pilot and was there a possibility of repair?

T.P. On the belly? Sat down. For a pilot, it is safe enough that such a landing can be generally safe. The main thing is not to sit on a burning one, otherwise tanks will explode when landing. Repairs? Easily. If you sit on a more or less flat field, then it was lifted and after a few days, you see, it is already flying.

A.S. If the planes returned with holes, then how many, from what calibers?

T.P. We are a superstitious people, counting holes was considered a bad omen. But I am telling you, it happened that a plane was returning, not a sieve.

A.S. How visually assess the power of the German 20 mm guns?

T.P. Depending on where it falls. If he came under the 2 / 4 angle, then he fell into the fuselage, then a hole was made in 6-7, see whacking into the plane, then 15-20 cm came out, a big hole came out, with such inverted edges. Apparently due to the fact that the plane is an element bearing, then it helped the destruction.

A.S. Did you have to take a forced one?

T.P. Had to. And during the war, twice, and after - once. And after the war, with a burning engine, lucky - did not explode. I am lucky. Broke rod. The car was already old, thoroughly worn out. Flying off.

On the "pawn" I did not jump. I was such a “merchant hoot” - I always reached out to my own. No shit they did not leave me down.

A.S. What kind of fieldwork aircraft carried out?

T.P. After refining the flashlight and installing a heavy machine gun to the navigator, the Pe-2 did not need any modifications.

A.S. How are airplanes camouflaged in the regiment, what are the sizes of the numbers, were there any emblems?

T.P. No camouflage. We were satisfied with the factory color. Kazan plant painted the upper surface in a protective green color, and Irkutsk in white, with green stripes. We called these machines "Irkutsky". From the Irkutsk plant we had planes in the winter. Bottom and there, and there, was blue. We did not have camouflage, and I never saw it in other regiments. The Germans had camouflage.

The rooms were large, blue, in the cockpit of the radio operator. On the keels of the star. In the cockpit area, the emblem of the pilot was put on the left; I had a “lion in a jump”. Someone has a tiger. Vaska Borisov had an interesting emblem in general - a bomb (lying), on her astride a bear drinking vodka from the throat. The division commander will arrive as follows: “Borisov, well, do you erase this crap!” - and did not erase. But in general emblems were allowed. The emblems of the technique were drawn, there were great masters. The guys about my lion said that "as if alive, is about to jump".

After the war, I transferred to the 2-th regiment of our Guards Corps. There, on the cockpits, instead of the emblem of the pilot, was the emblem of the regiment - the Guards badge, with the oblique inscription - "Vyslensky".

Koki screws were painted in the same protective color.

A.S. Do all airplanes painted the lower surfaces of the wings in blue?

T.P. Yes, at all.

A.S. How common was repainting aircraft after the factory?

T.P. Never dealt with this nonsense. Thirty sorties, not worth this matay repainting. I will tell you so, rarely, what kind of car in summer coloring lived up to winter or in winter, until summer.

A.S. Was lime coloring applied in winter?

T.P. Not.

"After the war": Pilots of the "Vyslensky" regiment. Second left Punev So. (gesturing with hand)
The photo was taken in Austria, in 1949 year. Punev had already served in the "Vyslensky" regiment, as evidenced by the emblem on the plane.

A.S. Have you ever, on occasion, attacked enemy bombers? Were there any such cases at the front, in your regiment?

T.P. I personally did not have to, but there were many such cases both at the front and in our regiment. It was often successful. Cut them - “be calm!” It is a pity that I did not turn up, I shot well.

A.S. Did the German bombers attack us?

T.P. No, this was not. They have our machines much inferior in speed, where they with our "pawn" to fight!

A.S. Your opinion, why did we make less sorties than the Germans?

T.P. Mostly, probably because of the weak engineering of the airfields, which made us terribly dependent on the weather. For example, for February 1945 I made only two sorties. Fritz flew with "betonok", and we are from the ground. February is warm, airfields limp, do not take off. And we sat like damned. Although, when the airfields dried up, they could make four sorties a day, and all with a dive. For a dive-keeper, this is incredibly much. This is a work for wear.

In winter, again, they could make one or two sorties in three months, but they could not have made one. That airfield is not suitable, because there was nothing to clean the airfields from the snow. No bulldozers, no graders. Cleared the airfield - no weather. The weather has appeared - again there is no airfield. An airfield appeared - the front was gone, we had to catch up, and so on.

Although, in the summer the provision of airfields improved. If you stood on the spot for a long time, then you could lay a narrow-gauge railway to transport fuel and ammunition directly to the airfield.

A.S. What was the ratio of combat missions to non-combat?

T.P. Already I will not say, but there were many non-combat ones. Probably three or four times more than combat.

First of all, flights. Circling new and refurbished technology. Putting into operation a young replenishment. There were a lot of training missions.

For example. After the Lvov operation, there was an operational pause, and we did not fly on missions, but there was no rest. The regiment constantly flew on training missions, so that the skill does not lose. A few hundred meters from the airfield "poured out" circle, or sand, or lime, 10 m diameter. They hang, you handsome, three bombs, fighting of course, and please fly. We had to get at least one bomb into the circle. Got - walk, didn't get - charge three more bombs until you hit. Each flight is three dives, and I tried to make the fourth one in some way. The load on the crew in these sorties is very large, well, three dives in a row ... My gunner stole apples somewhere and fed them (we had a nourishing feeding, but not very diverse), only that this fourth time I did not go, the guys exhausted heavily.

A.S. Have you ever heard of penal squadrons?

T.P. Only rumors.

A.S. Has it ever happened that you did not count the combat mission when the task was not fulfilled?

T.P. If the "worked" on the target and there is a photo control, the departure is always counted.

And already got - did not get? There were very “costly” goals, i.e. the number of sorties required to destroy them was incredible - bridges, railway junctions, etc. The Germans covered their "anti-aircraft guns" incredibly. It happens, the bomb-bomb, but still can not get. Near yes close. This is not a polygon for you.

A.S. Were there any cases of cowardice or special failure to perform a combat mission?

T.P. Not. What would anyone throw a system, this was not.

Small cases, such an easy jitters, it was. We used to enter the zone of anti-aircraft fire, and we had one such “very competent”, it was higher than the building on 50 meters and went up there. I say to him: “Seryoga! The next time you get me on the fly! What are you doing ?! ”While the“ anti-aircraft gun ”beats it does not matter, what if fighters? They and his first knocked down, and our order of battle is broken, and hence the system of firing - a hole in the ranks, try to close! We were very negative about such tricks and punished ourselves. Well, they gave the neck straight.

I had a case when the pilot did not drop the bomb, but it was not the pilot of our regiment.

I had to fly reconnaissance, but with bombs. The Görlitz node, this is a large city, and it turned out that I was “loaded” on a departure by a colonel from Moscow. They in Moscow thought that since 1945 is a year, we are already flying with a cane and in tuxedos, with butterflies. And not the combat sorties from us, but the gliding, but the Germans were blasting and blasting that the anti-aircraft guns, that the fighters were “be quiet!” Alone, I would have jumped, but when I was told that I would fly with him, I would smack . What kind of pilot he is, I don’t know, he fought - he didn’t fight - without a clue how he would lead himself in the air - it is not known. Well, do I need such a slave? Not. In addition, the pair for the bomber is incomplete, defective. Defeating a pair of fighters is incredibly difficult. Better alone.

In general, I am tudes, they are syudas - I can't get rid of this colonel. I have no faith for him. Here comes Orlov, our excellent pilot, flight commander. He was just going fishing (the angler was passionate, and there was a river near the airfield). I say: "Give me at least another Orlov, and there, over the goal, we are already a link, three of us, we shall figure something out." I really wanted a verified pilot to cover me in the air. In general, I spoiled all the fishing for Orlov. I not only ruined his fishing, I drove him into a coffin. Eh! ...

The results of the photo monitoring of the bombing

And we flew three. And when we approached this goal, they so whipped us! Already on the combat course, aiming is going (about five kilometers to the goal), I see that the “pawn” falls out of the torch and to the ground, as it will! - all scattered. “This is the colonel could not resist in the ranks” - I say to the crew. A dive began, hit the station, and there are four echelons. Earlier, intelligence reported that three of them were with soldiers and one was not known with what. Here in this unknown, I put the bombs, and there were ammunition in it. He fuck like! Shells flew through the entire city (this was reflected in the photocontrol). I don’t know how many Germans were put up by this explosion, but I think the score is at least hundreds, since these three infantry echelons were very close. Node after my strike week did not function. This, probably, was my most effective blow for the whole war.

Go back a couple. And then the shooter tells me: “And the colonel is following us.” "How?! “I think it means that Orlov was shot down!” Now this is a warfare! We cross the front line, and the shooter is to me again: "And his bomb holes are open." I told him: "It was he who scolded the goal, tell him to close it." Only I told him this, the shooter yells: “Bombs from him fell down!” I took a cross on the tablet and set a cross, marked the time and place of the bombing. It was our territory, fortunately only the forest. We arrive on the airfield, I get out and hear that he is already yelling: “Pilots, guards, your mother is like that, you have lost the crew! …. ”I told him:“ Oh, you bastard!, Your bombs have fallen down here! ”- and I show on the tablet. He was awesome, somehow “extinguished” like that, on a plane and dumped in a hurry. What was there with him further, I do not know.

True, our regiment had such traps that they never flew on combat missions. If you do not want - there is always a reason. Well, so the regiment did not feel any need for them. Do not know how - fly in a circle, bomb landfill, train. To send those into battle will be even more expensive.

A.S. Percentage of tasks performed was?

T.P. No, we did not have this.

A.S. How do you feel about the cinema "Chronicle of the dive bomber", how true and reliable the film is in relation to real life?

T.P. I don’t remember this movie exactly, I remember the general feeling - noodles on the ears.

I always wondered why, as a consultant, so necessarily the general. Ask those who really fought.

Of all the films, the most reliable is “Only old men” go into battle, ”but there are several annoying blunders there.

A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, now many historians are working on the now quite popular thesis that the Pe-2 was a rather mediocre dive bomber? In your opinion, is this correct?

T.P. Yes?! Which one is better?

A.S. Well ... Tu-2.

T.P. And who saw him and when he appeared at the front? I, for example, for all the time at the front, Tu-2 never saw. And what they do not like Pe-2?

A.S. Pe-2 is difficult to manage. ...

T.P. Nonsense! Fly need to be able to. I told you…

A.S. ... When diving you cannot use the internal suspension. ...

T.P. So what? Large caliber still does not fit into the bomb bay. At the diving diver the main suspension is external. Well this is a dive biker.

A.S. ... The bomb load is small. ...

T.P. And how many bombs do you need to get into? One is enough. Here I am in a dive to her and get one.

Even with only two 250 kg, you can destroy the bridge or the ship "on the move" to drown, and if you hit the train, you don’t need to say anything.

Therefore, the Pe-2, carrying one ton of bombs, is more effective than a two-ton bomber carrying a horizon bombing. And a ton of bombs is not a small load at all.

A.S. ... It was necessary to level up highly, due to the large “subsidence”, high means the bombs were inaccurate.

T.P. Nonsense! In the 10-dimeter circle the bombs were stacked, is that a little accuracy ?! Drawdown is due to the fact that the Pe-2 is a speedy car. It was possible, of course, to increase the wing span, and then it would jump out immediately, but then it would lose speed and how to fight?

A.S. It is also quite popular to claim that heavy single-engine fighters, such as the FW-190 or Р-46 "Thunderbolt", as dive bombers were more effective than the twin-engine dive bombers, and in battle with enemy fighters they could stand up for themselves, not required an escort. For stormtroopers could "work". In general, they were universal.

T.P. Right. They used the universal, and we are what gives a greater effect in the bombing.

A.S. Do you think the Pe-2 was more efficient as a bomber?

T.P. Well, of course! At Pe-2 there is a double aiming. The first aiming leads the navigator. Directs the car to the calculated angle of demolition on the combat course, sets BUR - the combat turn angle of the sight. If this angle is not taken into account and not set, then when aiming the pilot (already in a dive) the bomber will demolish and you will not hit the target. In addition, the navigator controls the altitude and gives a reset signal, since the pilot looks at the sight and cannot follow the altimeter.

Here the navigator "measures the wind." There is such a device - a wind-breaker, with its help they determine the angle of demolition, i.e. determine the direction, the wind speed and at what angle the aircraft must be turned on the combat course so that it will not be demolished (the pilot does something similar when landing where he also turns the plane towards the wind). Given a certain angle of drift, before diving, the pilot deploys the collimator of his sight. Therefore, when the pilot on a dive carries out a second aiming through his scope, he will not be mistaken because of the demolition, since by aiming the navigator and turning the optical axis of the pilot's sight, the demolition of the vehicle is already compensated.

You can hang as many bombs as you like on a fighter (this is not a tricky business), but you cannot achieve the accuracy of a dump on a dive, because a fighter pilot cannot determine the angle of demolition on a combat course.

The one who does not know these subtleties, thinks that in order to be hit by a dive bomb, the pilot only needs to catch the target, and then go on. It will not go anywhere! Even if you catch it, without taking into account the angle of demolition and the exact height of the dumping, you will not get anywhere. Even if you manage to withstand the height of the discharge (for example, you install the automatic reset), then you will not get away from the error of determining the angle of demolition. And the error in determining the drift angle in 1 (one) degree, already gives the deviation of the hit from the aiming point in 40-50 meters, and you will be mistaken at a much larger angle.

You can, of course, try to compensate for errors in demolition, low dump height and low speed, as in the German Ju-87. I do not argue, "laptezhnik" "dive-bomber" is great, but this is yesterday. Slug and lightly armed. Here we have anti-aircraft guns in abundance, and that’s it, Junkers ended. I flew for a long time to fly, but as a dive-bomber came to an end, I stopped falling, since I had to increase the drop height. And we have more fighters, generally ceased to appear in the sky, such old stuff to our fighter is one tooth.

They are now, in his memoirs, all the sniper, and he would try to tell me how he got into the turret of the tanker, then I would just ask him one question: “And how do you take into account the demolition?” it's all over.

As for the FW-190, then there is the same story, just the demolition will not be taken into account, and the Fokker machine is twice as fast as the Junkers. I saw these “Fokkers” - they bomb bombs aby wherever and “For the Motherland!” Into the clouds from our fighters.

You must understand, Pe-2 was rightfully the main front-line bomber of our Air Force. By law, and not because there was nothing else.

During the war, both the Germans and the allies had bombers faster than the Pe 2. There were those who carried a large bomb load. Were with a strong airborne weapons. Finally, they were more comfortable for the crew. (The same "Boston" is an aircraft for the crew, a very comfortable car, we had a lot of guys flying it, told it.) They were.

But, no air force had a bomber like the Pe-2 that combined all the parameters so successfully: high speed, good bomb load, excellent maneuverability, simplicity and ease of control, strong defensive weapons and, most importantly, the ability to throw dive bombs. In any case, I have not heard about foreign analogs equal in performance and performance characteristics of the Pe-2.

And the one who says that the Pe-2 was a bad dive bomber, neither bombed it himself, nor did he know a damn thing about bombing. Perhaps he can also deceive the “reading” public, but a professional will immediately put it in its place.
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  1. mirag2
    mirag2 18 February 2014 08: 18
    I read it with great pleasure, from cover to cover!
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 18 February 2014 10: 06
      Quote: .Author.
      But German dive-bombers in their memoirs write that they almost hit the tank in the tower.

      T.P. Yeah. A driver in the nose. It is he at home, behind a glass of schnapps, he can tell similar tales. I would try to tell me, I would bring him to clean water.

      This is about Rudel, who, with his tongue, destroyed an entire tank army. It is not even clear how our army entered Berlin if Rudel destroyed all the tanks, and Hartman aircraft.
      1. Vovka levka
        Vovka levka 18 February 2014 13: 26
        Quote: Vadivak
        Rudel destroyed all the tanks, and Hartman aircraft.

        By the end of the school, I had a total raid of all 40 hours. In reality, all we could do is take off and land. Neither the ability to look around in the air, nor group grouping. "We were all taught a little, something, and something." This is something and somehow - this is about me then. Now I understand that, compared with the Germans, we were wild dropouts, because the Germans produced pilots with a touch of 400 (four hundred) hours. Incredible difference.

        That's why the Germans did it.
        The article is excellent, what can I say here.
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 18 February 2014 14: 42
          Quote: Vovka Levka
          That's why the Germans did it.

          It turned out for us and the Germans turned out a bummer.
          1. Vovka levka
            Vovka levka 18 February 2014 15: 21
            Quote: Vadivak

            It turned out for us and the Germans turned out a bummer.

            No one argues about the final result, but at what price it was paid and what the reason for this in the article is perfectly disclosed. That's all.
            1. Realist58
              Realist58 19 February 2014 01: 32
              Combat losses are about the same. If (for the sake of statistics) as many prisoners as the Nazis were destroyed, the advantage would be in our favor.
              Well, we are not male, the gates are not shifting.

              Well, it's not worth talking about the ratio of killed civilians. If they did it on the "eye for an eye" principle, then only archaeologists would know about the Germans.
      2. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 18 February 2014 16: 01
        Quote: Vadivak
        This is about Rudel, who, with his tongue, destroyed an entire tank army. It is not even clear how our army entered Berlin if Rudel destroyed all the tanks, and Hartman aircraft.

        Qualified response from a combat pilot good
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 18 February 2014 16: 06
          Ilyich, did he write that he lit half a thousand in one day? Maybe in a week or a month, or maybe in a year?
      3. rubin6286
        rubin6286 23 February 2014 23: 32
        In war, it happens in different ways. In 1937 in Spain, the Soviet "volunteer" N. Ostryakov hit with one bomb directly into the pipe of the German heavy cruiser "Deutschland", seriously damaging it. In retaliation, the "Legion Condor" bombed Guernica. In the same year German pilot Schlichting on the KhSh-123 achieved a direct dive hit on our T-26 tank. It all depends on the skill of the pilot and his Majesty Chance.
        1. Viktor64
          Viktor64 11 June 2014 11: 46
          Depends solely on his greatness of the case. There are so many unknown quantities that getting into a tank is only a case, although getting hit by a hundredth meters in 5-10 can turn an easy tank.
    2. valokordin
      valokordin 18 February 2014 15: 29
      Quote: mirag2
      I read it with great pleasure, from cover to cover!

      ТAuger Most, but he immediately remembered, this friend was told to me by my friend Vladimir Alekseevich Kagakov, who, after graduating from the Omsk Aviation School, served in Pe-2 in the Vilnius Regiment in Austria, and then retrained on the Il-28. After the withdrawal of our troops in 55, the regiment was transferred to Hungary. Kagakov is no longer alive, he is from 28 years old, younger than Punev by 6 years. This is the story.
    3. Nikolay74
      Nikolay74 18 February 2014 20: 52
      Battle grandfather. THANKS TO HIM
      1. Fedya
        Fedya 18 February 2014 23: 39
        That's right ! I read as if I saw everything myself! Well done Grandfather, God bless him!
  2. Ivan Petrovich
    Ivan Petrovich 18 February 2014 08: 20
    why the author of Sukhorukov, this interview seems to have been published in the book of Artem Drabkin
    1. Fitter65
      Fitter65 18 February 2014 12: 17
      Interviewed Sukhorukov.
  3. agent
    agent 18 February 2014 08: 37
    Good article!!! Respect to the author!
    1. unclevad
      unclevad 18 February 2014 14: 04
      Explanatory article! Many thanks to the author!
      Timofey Panteleevich health!
      To all the dead and dead veterans - Eternal Glory!
  4. firedrake
    firedrake 18 February 2014 09: 00
    True article. My father during the war was a radio operator-gunner on the PE-2
  5. SIT
    SIT 18 February 2014 09: 26
    Valuable historical information. These people will leave and nowhere can you find such information. Thanks to the author of the article for interesting questions. Indeed, why are directors too lazy to look for such people as consultants on WWII films? Well, they will not only remove mistakes, but will be able to convey that atmosphere, language, and communication environment of that time. Yes, even direct about the hero of the article and shoot. Show the war really as hard, dangerous daily work, and not as the intersection of various love lines against a military background.
    1. igordok
      igordok 18 February 2014 11: 38
      In the 2s, I watched a documentary about the Pe-2. It seems patriotic, but it stated that only a few performed the dive on the Pe-XNUMX, and the brake grilles were removed by all. I got a worm of doubt. Thanks to this article, my "worm" sent that movie to hell.
      1. Fitter65
        Fitter65 18 February 2014 12: 21
        It was like that, not all regiments used Pe-2s as dive bombers. Many used as horizontal bombers.
      2. Stas57
        Stas57 18 February 2014 12: 38
        I got a worm of doubt. Thanks to this article, my "worm" sent that movie to hell.

        in vain sent, it was necessary to send a worm

        A.G. Fedorov, referring to the reluctance of pilots to dive from the dive characteristic of the summer of 42, pointed out another reason - "the desire to secure their actions over the target." But, he added, “the main reason was different: the overwhelming majority of the flight crew had not yet been properly trained in the art of dive bombing.”
        Fedorov A.G. Sky became fate. M., 1973. C. 143.

        you must be able to dive in short
      3. wadim13
        wadim13 18 February 2014 21: 03
        The film was called Red Stars. The movie seems to be not bad. But not without caustics about our Air Force and the Stalinist system.
  6. avt
    avt 18 February 2014 09: 41
    good I have been lying for a long time this printout with passes where Grandfather swore laughing .Even somehow on the site in the dispute, quotes in favor of Pe2 resulted. Well done that published! good Explanatory memories, in the 90s he took a couple more, but from fighters, they spoke a little not so juicy, but the text is lively. Very informative, the comparison of the performance characteristics of our and German fighters was not particularly impressive, not according to test data, but during the fighting.
    1. Midshipman
      Midshipman 18 February 2014 12: 50
      Spread - read drinks
      1. avt
        avt 18 February 2014 17: 55
        Quote: Midshipman
        Spread - read

        request what There is no scanner. And to print there .... it’s not sour. I’ll try to strain the guys, if I succeed, I’ll post it. But maybe in the internet there is already the same interview with N.G. Golodnikov - a fighter from the Safonov regiment, L.K. Levin from 655 SHAP, A. A. Bartash from a reconnaissance regiment.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. master_rem
      master_rem 18 February 2014 13: 44
      Yes, yes, but what are we? we want the same, we ask, we ask hi
    4. Argon
      Argon 18 February 2014 15: 06
      To everyone who puts pluses, I recommend watching the interview of NEZABVENNYKH-A.I. Pokryshkin; I.N. Kozhedub. There are quite a lot of materials with the stories of Stepan Anastasovich (if necessary, without ideological aspects). Assess the rhetoric of people of that generation, their mentality. Compare with I do not want to defame the veteran's name in any way, but literally from the second question I learned the style of a scribbler, a pseudo-historian-Drabkin. At best, an interview, roughly edited, and most importantly thoroughly supplemented. Regarding training in aviation schools (especially in the first two military years ) you can understand everything by looking at the contentment certificates of the cadets (what a dive in FIG). It becomes clear and justified the appearance of ZAPs, where they actually taught combat use. The comparison of the Pe-2 with the Ju-87 is somewhat discouraging, much closer in class (and piloting features) "pawn" to the Ju-88. Regarding the Pe-2 car itself (and the victim of the Pe-3 abortion), one should try to think with your own head - is it possible from an F-1 car with minimal changes in structure and technology to make a tractor. Petlyakov was ordered, he did, he received a design bureau, a position, and most importantly a plant. Ilyushin and Sukhoi, by the way, refused to rework their cars, they found arguments, so to speak. its gradual restructuring, but after the death of the creator, the "pawn" was left without an owner, none of the "main" ones wanted to take on someone else's masterpiece. The continuously changing chief engineers of the plant did not have the right to major changes in the design (only simplification), and the plan for a monthly The production of cars (in conditions of a military shortage) grew continuously. As a result, the performance characteristics of cars fell from series to series. (The described conditions give an idea of ​​the quality of production machines in general terms) The situation stabilized only with the arrival of Myasishchev. My idea of ​​the everyday life of this machine is alive in his grandfather's stories. In his PARV there was a "twin-engine" squadron, up to 43g it was based on Pe-3 and Pe-2R. Its combat effectiveness always depended on temperature and humidity (insulation resistance). The gunner-radio operator had a safety shield for control circuits, a bag with fuses, and the ability to quickly identify and change burnt-out ones in flight are his main professional qualities. On triplets, this shield was in the navigator's cabin and get to It was very difficult for him in flight. "Bugs" were not practiced because (for example) landing without trim tabs or landing flaps was practically impossible, that such an automatic release was discovered only with the advent of the P-40 "Tomahawk". After each flight, all electric machines (DC) brushes must be inspected and blown out, and there are more than 30 of them. As the Bostons arrived, the number of "pawns" decreased and the engineering staff of the 3rd squadron became more and more like people, - "now they even slept for 8 hours!" - (according to the grandfather). So that the correct title of the article has "no other Air Force had such an aircraft."
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 18 February 2014 17: 05
        Quote: Argon
        .As for the Pe-2 machine itself (and the victim of the Pe-3 abortion), one must try to think with one's own head whether it is possible to make a tractor from an F-1 car with minimal changes in design and technology.

        And which of the above cars is hiding under the guise of an F-1 car?
        1. Argon
          Argon 18 February 2014 20: 47
          It is written, to try to THINK with your own head, a Formula One (F-1) car is an experienced high-altitude fighter "100" by Petlyakov, and a tractor is a Pe-2. farther.
          1. Cynic
            Cynic 18 February 2014 21: 43
            Quote: Argon
            Comparison with the tractor, the latter, quite successfully, according to the destination, take more carry on.

            It seems that Russian is not your native language _ Write without understanding what you write.
            Quote: Argon
            Regarding the Pe-2 machine itself (and the victim of the Pe-3 abortion), one must try to think with one's own head whether it is possible to make a tractor from the F-1 car with minimal changes in design and technology.

            This sentence is understood unambiguously, but at least well _ write one thing, think another. Therefore, he asked.
      2. rubin6286
        rubin6286 19 February 2014 11: 12
        The longer the war is from us, the fewer veterans remain. incl. and pilots. You need to be shy. my dear, how old is Drabkin, you know? He is not at all a scribbler and pseudo-historian. The man has systematized and published the memoirs of war veterans, "as is." without embellishment and distortion, not entirely correct, simple, but reflecting the harsh realities of war.
        How many people, so many opinions, need to understand the essence, understand and respect. and not get involved in useless disputes.
    5. Nikolay74
      Nikolay74 18 February 2014 20: 55
      It would be interesting to read soldier
  7. user
    user 18 February 2014 10: 03
    A successful and interesting article, I remember about the same article about armor-piercers (if any of the members of the forum help me remember the name!). It has always been so and it will be for historians and soldiers the same war looks different, but if you read the generals (who have this rank at the time of the events), then they generally participated in different wars.
    Just a pleasure to read.
    Regards to the author.
    1. Stas57
      Stas57 18 February 2014 10: 14
  8. ramin_serg
    ramin_serg 18 February 2014 10: 17
    Respect read the article with pleasure.
  9. albai
    albai 18 February 2014 10: 59
    Truly, the shoemaker must swing the boot, and the dive driver! Well done grandfather! I read the article with great pleasure!
  10. bistrov.
    bistrov. 18 February 2014 11: 10
    Real, combat pilot! All war in battles. It’s not for you to shift pieces of paper from table to table. And there are almost no awards. Yes, he could easily be given a hero! Still, they do not like ruffy in the army.
  11. Day 11
    Day 11 18 February 2014 11: 26
    A stupid repost of Artyom Drapkin from his book. On the topic --- shit plane, nikago comparisons with the U-87! Remind me when did you decide to go into the peak on it? What dive angle was acceptable on it and on Stuck?
    1. Day 11
      Day 11 18 February 2014 11: 52
      This is all that you can? Stupidly minusanut. Look at the "old men of the forum" - you will always explain what they disagree with! And you? Ugh, ..., crushing the youth!
      1. ramsi
        ramsi 18 February 2014 12: 30
        Well, he compares the Pe-2 with the Yu-87, and collectively concludes
      2. Cynic
        Cynic 18 February 2014 17: 00
        Quote: Den 11
        Is that all you can?

        No, just an adequate reaction to your inadequate post.
        For example, I was also embarrassed, so to speak, by overly literary processing of memories combat pilot. Who spoke with veterans will understand what the conversation is about.
        By the way, who recorded the conversation, did not even bother to get acquainted with the history of the appearance of the diving bomber Pe-2.
        Not to know about the fighter past of its prototype?
        And about the existence of a heavy Pe-3 fighter?
    2. Taoist
      Taoist 18 February 2014 12: 21
      As I understand it, you flew and bombed both on that and on the other? Such "specialists" touch me - those who like to compare "soft to warm".
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 18 February 2014 12: 25
        Can you read? Before you blurt out, read ALL of my posts!
    3. apostrophe
      apostrophe 18 February 2014 12: 23
      Quote: Den 11
      By topic --- shit plane

      Who would doubt that smile an expert, not like a veteran.
    4. vtur
      vtur 18 February 2014 14: 11
      Quote: Den 11
      Dumb repost of Artyom Drapkin from his book.

      In any case, it was nice to refresh. Many moments are simply forgotten.
      It is a pity that many veterans died before the moment when it was already possible not to be afraid to tell the truth about the war ...
    5. rubin6286
      rubin6286 19 February 2014 12: 03
      Son! You do not know, fortunately, what war is, the command of the commander and what happens for failure to comply with it. Pe-2 is one of the war planes. He simply could not be completely bad (in a word such as you write illiterately). If it had been different, the NKVD would have “spanked” SP Korolev, Sukhoi, Tupolev, Ermolaev, Petlyakov and others, because they all did it in a “sharashka”.
      They went into battle on it, bombed from a horizontal flight, from a gentle dive and from a steep one too. Whoever over the target in battle remembered the instructions. On the combat course, they literally "climbed" on the anti-aircraft guns, dodging attacks from fighters, turning the barrels so that rivets flew out and the skin of the planes was torn. Sometimes, they could not get the car out of a dive and exploded on their own bombs. They learn that he didn’t drop bombs on the target, but dumped them “on the way” - you will go to the penal battalion. Without a command, he left the formation in flight under fire - execution.
      You are not a pilot and have no idea what stresses the body experiences during a dive. Not everyone can withstand them and, by the way, not every car. The Me-110 and Ju-88 had a dive assault rifle. The Pe-2, which was created as a high-altitude fighter, had none of this even at the end of the war. What and with what to compare. Structurally, the closest to the Pe-2 is the Me-110. and not Ju-88 and, moreover, Ju-87. Ju-87 - the aircraft, originally designed to engage targets exclusively from a dive, was structurally adapted for this. Look at its description and you will be convinced. In Germany, the Germans flying the Ju-87 told me that they dived at the target "from the edge" or "from the hill" from an altitude of 1500-2000 m at an angle of up to 80 degrees, the exit from the peak was at an altitude of 400-500 meters.
      In any case, the entry speed at the peak should not exceed 180-200 km / h. Literally: "We took 4 bombs - for 2 approaches. The Russians had almost no anti-aircraft guns, if we were covered by fighters, we hit the target even from the first call ". You carefully read Drabkin's books, take a closer look, these are the memories of the few remaining front-line soldiers, simple, artless, unadorned about how it really was at the front. There is nothing to argue about here.
      1. Dooplet11
        Dooplet11 28 July 2017 13: 16
        " The Me-110 and Yu-88 had an automatic pick-up unit. The Pe-2, which was created as a high-altitude fighter, did not even have this at the end of the war."
        Mistake. Was on Pe-2 automatic output from the peak.
  12. Colonel
    Colonel 18 February 2014 11: 59
    I could not tear myself away until I read it to the end. It can be seen that the man (T. Punev) learned the charms of war in general, and war on a "pawn" in particular, on his hump. I wonder if any of the "experts" have enough intelligence and conscience to criticize the opinion of the pilot who fought?
    1. Day 11
      Day 11 18 February 2014 12: 11
      Of course, I won’t criticize! He fought on what was given to him for our SOCIALIST Motherland! He could not compare, because he hadn’t tried Stuck. And I hadn’t tried you or anyone else from the forum! However, I believe that - To Rudel, that the plane was excellent (German quality). We have a man working electrician --- a German, you can’t imagine how scrupulous he is in all matters! What the hell are the bolts and screws lying around here? Where should they be? What the x-th chair is not at the table?
      1. Taoist
        Taoist 18 February 2014 12: 51
        This occupation, of course, is utterly thankless (to convince "ikspertov" like you), but I will try to do it not so much to "restore justice" as so that other people reading this topic, out of inexperience, do not take your words at face value.

        Firstly, a direct comparison of Stuck and Pe 2 is ill-conceived and simply illiterate - these are two fundamentally different aircraft with initially different design ideologies and different methods and tactics of combat use.
        The thing was created exclusively for dive bombing - as an "assault" aircraft for direct support of troops on the front line. From an ideological point of view, it is more accurate to compare it with the IL-2 - primarily in terms of the generality of tasks. The Pe-2 is a front-line bomber with a dive bombing capability, and if we compare it with German aircraft, it is primarily its "backup" Ju-88.
        Second: It is not worth comparing the general technological level of German and Soviet production during the war. It is clear that the technological culture of the Germans has always been higher. But this does not mean any absolute superiority in combat use. Our equipment, in contrast to the German one, was distinguished by high maintainability and low demands on operating conditions. That made it possible to ensure the fulfillment of combat missions in the conditions of both disrupted supply and a shortage of prepared l / s and lack of infrastructure. Under the same conditions, "high-tech" German equipment showed a higher percentage of failures and could not fully perform the tasks.

        And further. Leave the legends to those who compose them. The measure of real value is His Majesty's result. But it does not testify to the thesis put forward by you. Pe-2 successfully fought and carried out missions until the end of the war - Yu-87 already de facto lost its combat value by the 43 year, and by 44 it was completely withdrawn from combat use.
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 18 February 2014 13: 00
          Excuse me, I didn’t even read completely (one water). Okay, you don’t like Yu-87, but Yu-88 was close to the pawn. Also dive-agree with me (without emotions)? Let's compare them
          1. Taoist
            Taoist 18 February 2014 13: 30
            Are you ready to discuss "not water"? Personally, by education and service experience, I am a "mechanical engineer for the operation of aircraft and aircraft engines" - and I can calmly switch to the appropriate terminology and operational assessments of aircraft equipment - and by the way, I will not at all say that the USSR created a "wunderwaffe" (just as the Germans did not succeed - because the wunderwaffe in general can exist only in the inflamed imaginations of ideologists).
            But your categorical judgments show that you are very far from a professional and unemotional assessment. Now it is fashionable to admire the "gloomy Teutonic genius" - and there is something to admire ... But the reverse side of the coin also exists and I can throw you examples of unsuccessful and frankly illiterate technical solutions from the German side. The same "zhuzha" was, in many ways, less "competent" aircraft than the same Petlyakov.
            1. Day 11
              Day 11 18 February 2014 13: 40
              And I'm a specialty (military school) - a cormorant! Will we continue to argue?
          2. badger1974
            badger1974 18 February 2014 14: 21
            closer to the pawn is not 88 but bf-110, the negative results of testing him as a piker influenced the fact that in the east he was an attack aircraft undercover, and in the west 110 he shot the largest number of bombers in night battles, and not as an attack aircraft or dive, the pawn needs was also to master the night air battle,
            1. Day 11
              Day 11 18 February 2014 14: 28
              I agree with you! Hurried with conclusions. Indeed, the 110th is closer.
            2. Taoist
              Taoist 18 February 2014 15: 41
              According to the history of creation, yes, (as indeed most of the machines created at that time with a claim to "a universal aircraft of the battlefield"). And the Germans developed it precisely as an IS - completely abandoning the idea of ​​bombing from a steep dive and specializing as a bomber. The absence of a bomber sight and a bombardier navigator imposed rather serious restrictions on this vehicle (and its continuation) in the use of bombs as the main weapon.
          3. vtur
            vtur 18 February 2014 14: 37
            Quote: Den 11
            but close to the pawn was Yu-88

            One of the main criteria for aircraft "comparability" is take-off weight. All other weight characteristics "dance" from this parameter, incl. and bomb load. It is better to compare the Tu-88 with Junkers Ju 2. The Tu-2 was an outstanding aircraft - the take-off weight was less, the speed was higher, and the bomb load was practically the same as the Ju 88 (although they write that the Tu-2 could take 3 tons for overload) Pe-2 was a half times lighter than the Ju 88 and it is incorrect to compare them. I agree that the Pe-2, if it was used as a front-line horizontal bomber, had a somewhat low bomb load. And the fact that it was used in this way does not cause any doubts - the Red Army Air Force experienced an acute shortage in front-line bombers, if the fighters were literally forced to fly with bombs. This is a common problem of misalignment in Soviet aircraft construction - a separate interesting topic ...
        2. rubin6286
          rubin6286 19 February 2014 12: 29
          I am pleased to read your comments and understand that you are an educated, serious, adult person. It is a pity that people who polemic with you are mostly amateurs. You are quite right in many ways.
          As for the Yu-87, the dive bombing technique used on it was classic and was effective as long as the aircraft operated under conditions of air supremacy for targets not covered or poorly covered by anti-aircraft artillery. Gradually, they were withdrawn from service, but not because the Luftwaffe lost its air supremacy or the troops received enough anti-aircraft guns. The thing is different: in the autumn of 1943, massive allied air raids began and fighters were required primarily to protect the Reich. The reprofiling of production began, and in these conditions, preference was given to FV-190, as the most
          "universal horse", incl. and on the Eastern Front.
      2. valokordin
        valokordin 18 February 2014 15: 37
        Here is another character for the film Biochemistry of Pedagogy
    2. apostrophe
      apostrophe 18 February 2014 12: 38
      You clearly underestimate our experts smile why what, and they should not occupy narrow-mindedness, I generally am silent about conscience and mind.
  13. K.Shimada
    K.Shimada 18 February 2014 12: 07
    Very interesting article! I enjoyed reading it! Very informative material!
    And the critical remarks about the German dive bombers are beyond praise. "Just a balm for the wounds" - as they read at the same time with a friend of the German rudel, argued to the point of hoarseness. I wish this article, then, as a counterargument hi
    1. badger1974
      badger1974 18 February 2014 13: 05
      In vain you were arguing with a friend, the rudel was successful flying on a G series bast with VK 3.7, and the SG didn’t equip it in this configuration and the cover was a group of yagdas (air regiment) in constant connection and could even attract free yagd forces on request, so that the question here is not diving but attacking
  14. Jedi
    Jedi 18 February 2014 12: 26
    Yes, a very good article. thanks to Timofei Panteleevich and the author ...
  15. Stas57
    Stas57 18 February 2014 12: 28
    judging by the documents, the aircraft had low survivability from enemy fire, a cramped cockpit, and a complete lack of protection for the navigator (I would like to ask someone else to compare)
    1. Day 11
      Day 11 18 February 2014 12: 34
      Here, try to explain this to the fat-blooded! Since the SOVIET means the BEST! Well done! In the evening I will upload more (on another computer)
    2. Taoist
      Taoist 18 February 2014 12: 57
      Any car has flaws. There is no absolute. And to say about any car that it is "better" or that it is "worse" is wrong in essence.
      There are no good or bad cars - there are "appropriate or inappropriate" tasks.
      1. Stas57
        Stas57 18 February 2014 13: 09
        I don’t like not thoughtless praise, not stupid denunciation, therefore I always read everything in total, the same Drabkin has reverse examples, because people are different and cars are different, and an immature brain can incorrectly understand that everything was super
      2. Day 11
        Day 11 18 February 2014 13: 19
        But I don’t think so! Only the best needs to be produced! The Hans had the Me-110 --- it was not for me to judge the KILLER. I think that resources were wasted on him (thanks to you, German Goering) -Muh I’m so explained that it’s better to do the 109th --- this one rested against a horn!
      3. Day 11
        Day 11 18 February 2014 13: 34
        Do you think that the Pe-2 corresponded to its task for which it was designed (dive) or, all the same, ... ...!
        1. badger1974
          badger1974 18 February 2014 13: 44
          it was designed as a long-range escort hawk, there was such a concept until the second world "Douai theory" -for this concept and the lightning was designed, bf-110 and Pe-3 were later converted into Pe-2, these are purebred heavy hawks
        2. Taoist
          Taoist 18 February 2014 14: 14
          Quite. As a front-line bomber with the ability to attack from a dive on point and highly protected targets. Good range of bombs used, high survivability and fairly powerful defensive weapons with virtually no dead zones.
          Again, the fighter roots - which made it possible to conduct active aerobatics on this machine. In the hands of an experienced pilot (as the article shows), it was a very formidable fighting vehicle.
          The same Yu88 was inferior to the Pe-2 in speed, maneuverability (very strong), and had completely unsatisfactory defensive weapons.
          1. Day 11
            Day 11 18 February 2014 14: 22
            Ekspert! U-88 was inferior? Defensive weak? Explain to our veterans, they are not in the know
            1. Taoist
              Taoist 18 February 2014 15: 44
              In general, I have nothing to discuss with you ... You are as aggressive and ignorant as possible.
            2. rkkasa xnumx
              rkkasa xnumx 18 February 2014 20: 56
              When comparing defensive weapons, it is necessary to consider not only the number of machine guns, but also what kind of machine guns they are. Rifle caliber machine guns were ineffective both ours and German, but Berezin was much more powerful than the MG-131
          2. badger1974
            badger1974 18 February 2014 14: 46
            do not confuse the defensive weapons of 88 and he-111, the 88th had virtually no dead zones, unlike the 111th, this is a valuable trophy for a fighter
            1. Taoist
              Taoist 18 February 2014 15: 53
              You do not confuse two cars? It’s just that Heink’s dead zones are very small and the armament in the 5 barrels in the rear hemisphere is much more solid than the 3x and also with very limited firing angles. Just 88y fast and maneuverable than 111y.
              1. badger1974
                badger1974 18 February 2014 23: 23
                carefully scrutinize the cockpit where there is a shooter of the upper back hemisphere, so that to adjust the exit from the dead zone in the 88th sat next to him back to back and it was easier than yelling at that at 111m for the whole plane, and the top point is extremely unsuccessful at 111, our pilots understood this in the 41st
          3. rubin6286
            rubin6286 19 February 2014 12: 56
            My father flew a little Pe-2 in the post-war years. He told this: "The pawn" flies quickly, but it is cold in it, and especially for the shooter. "The Boston A-20 and B-25 surpass it in everything except speed."
            The Ju-88 was designed rationally and was technically more advanced than the Pe-2. The defensive armament is larger and better, the "blind" zones are narrow enough, the bomb load is not only greater, but also more varied, even torpedo suspension is allowed. , had a good view on takeoff and landing, an automatic dive deduction. On the basis of the Yu-88, specialized machines Yu-188,288,388 were created.

            To say that the Pe-2 maneuverability in battle is higher, in my opinion, is not entirely true, because for a bomber, it is determined not only and not so much by design factors, but above all by crew training (physical fitness,
            speed of assessing the situation, skills in piloting techniques, speed of reaction).
        3. Alex 241
          Alex 241 18 February 2014 14: 20
          KB-29 was instructed to create a high-altitude twin-engine fighter under the index VISTO, or VI-100. This department was headed by V.M. Petlyakov, who had extensive experience in developing multi-engine machines. Petlyakov himself and all his subordinates received long prison terms, an average of 10 years, but they were promised that in the event of the successful completion of work they would be charged with all charges and released. December 22, 1939 a prototype VI-100 took off. It was a very perfect and advanced car. To increase the altitude, its engines were equipped with turbochargers, and to ensure comfortable working conditions at high altitudes, the pilots were placed in pressurized cabins. However, Soviet industry could not yet produce turbochargers with the required level of reliability. In tests, these units were constantly breaking down, and without them the fighter did not reach the design ceiling.

          In addition, the experience of the outbreak of war in Europe showed that the altitude set for the aircraft was excessive - aerial combat took place at lower altitudes than those that were calculated

          VI-100. In addition, much simpler and cheaper single-engine vehicles completely coped with the fighter tasks. As a result, the project was closed, and the aircraft was decided to be converted into a dive pilot with the replacement of the VI index (High-altitude Fighter) with the PB (Dive Bomber). VI-100 in tests at the Air Force Research Institute. winter 1939-1940
        4. Cynic
          Cynic 18 February 2014 17: 36
          Quote: Den 11
          what was it designed for (dive) or all the same -...!

          All the same, all the same.
          No need to try to joke on the members of the forum who, due to the lack of sufficient knowledge about the history of Soviet military aircraft construction, do not quite adequately evaluate articles like this.
          You that prevented as a forum member Alex 241 set out a more realistic picture of the birth of Pe-2?
          There was no dive in the USSR Air Force, there was not! And the war in Europe showed _ WHAT I NEED!
          It is necessary!
          You understand that the Air Force needed a dive, but there was no time! Therefore, Pe-2 appeared, and only after Tu-2.

          1. badger1974
            badger1974 18 February 2014 23: 30
            The Tu-2 appeared almost on a par with the Pe-2, but for him at first there were no aviation Mikulins that were needed for the Il-2, remember the leader "we need attack aircraft like air" and then Lavochkin seized the initiative with Shvetsov-82, it was difficult for 103rd way to heaven,
    3. smersh70
      smersh70 18 February 2014 14: 14
      Quote: Stas57
      judging by the documents, the plane had low survivability from enemy fire,

      by the way, can someone say -30 sorties are not too small for such an airplane. This is what a burden for the industry. Interestingly, how much was the limit of sorties for the American, for example, B-17s ..
      1. badger1974
        badger1974 18 February 2014 14: 50
        the calculation is built from theory, the duet theory was built from 30 sorties per bomber unit, when this did not work out, the efficiency drops, something needs to be reviewed, etc.
      2. rubin6286
        rubin6286 19 February 2014 12: 59
        The American pilots who participated in raids on Germany from the territory of England, under the contract were supposed to perform 25 sorties.
    4. GDP
      GDP 18 February 2014 14: 54
      judging by the documents, the aircraft had low survivability from enemy fire, a cramped cockpit, and a complete lack of protection for the navigator (I would like to ask someone else to compare)

      And what is this piece of paper? Where and what year?
      1. Stas57
        Stas57 18 February 2014 15: 03
        a piece of paper, it’s in the toilet, and this is a document.
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 18 February 2014 15: 13
          Do not take it into your head! Such a shaft has BECAME on the site. You bring specific documents to him --- rested against the horn-No, this can not be!
  16. Stas57
    Stas57 18 February 2014 12: 54
    A.S. Timofey Panteleevich, in your opinion, how true are the veterans' stories about the disgusting landing characteristics of the Pe-2 ("goat", etc.), which (characteristics), according to them, "... killed more crews than Fritz"?

    T.P. Fly must be able to! Do not know how to fly, do not blather!

    my grandfather in mine got angry and messed up before the pioneers or a banal imposition of memory. And do not forget that he did not fly the first day.
    I quote those who flew
    “How many times, I had to watch how at the beginning of the take-off the“ pawn ”suddenly turned to the right, and the pilot, unable to fend off the turn with the help of another motor, was forced to stop taking off. And what attention is required when landing! The slightest mistake leads to a series of such high "goats" that you are involuntarily amazed as soon as the chassis is maintained. "Fedorov A.G. Fate became the sky.

    The handling of the Pe-2 was excellent.

    The commission, which studied the experience of operating pawns at the 58 speed bomber regiment of the 2 mixed air division of the Northern Front Air Force, at the beginning of the war, noted that, according to the “general opinion of the flight personnel”, “the machine is too complicated in piloting technique, especially on take-off and landing. The operation of an aircraft requires pilots of higher than average qualification; an ordinary pilot is difficult to master ”

    The overwhelming majority of the Pe-2 warriors remained, according to the test pilot P.M. Stefanovsky, “difficult and uncomfortable for the crew” 100 machines. As a result, even in one of the two divisions of the Polninsk 1-th bomber air corps - the 1-th guards bomber - by July 1943 only 16% of pilots could bomb from a dive - and only by August this percentage could be brought up to 40 in the corps, and by October - by about 70 (but the percentage of those who could bomb as part of groups was only up to 57 — 58) . Also on October 20 1943 of the 67 corps crews who bombed the railway stations Alexandria, Koristovka and Verkhovtsevo (between Kremenchug and Dnepropetrovsk), diving strikes allowed only 25 to be prepared the most prepared

    Well, in the end, you need to watch not one interview, but a set of documents and memoirs, one likes, but others ...
    I repeat

    T.P. Fly must be able to! Do not know how to fly, do not blather!

    И indeed, the main reason for the refusal of the pawn pilots to dive from dive bombing is still to recognize their poor preparation. When retraining pilots at Pe-2 on the eve of the war, diving strikes did not work out with them; in July of the 41, at the Lipetsk Aviation Training Center, they began to do this, but by October, saving time, the number of dive bombing that each crew was able to carry out was again brought to zero with the 4 — 6; in 1942, during training in the reserve regiment, the young pilot managed to carry out only one such bombing, and in 1943, two

    Here comes a man to defend his homeland, is it his fault that he did 2 dives and lay down somewhere near Kursk in the first battle? He does not "blather", he lies in a damp grave, or crashed during landing, he also does not "blather", he also lies in the grave.

    once again, for those who do not understand
    Meanwhile general raid on Pe-2with which the pilot arrived from the reserve aviation regiment to the front, in 1941, averaged total xnumx (according to other sources - 7) hours, in 1942 - 12 (according to other sources - 13), in 1943 - 15..
    15 o'clock and to blame the fascists, and die for their homeland having a raid at 6 o'clock ... and the dead no longer "blather".
    well, it's unpleasant for me to "blather"
    1. badger1974
      badger1974 18 February 2014 14: 10
      I support, the pawn came from the fighters, and didn’t become a full-fledged picker, the bomb dropping in sharp peak from 70-80 degrees at a minimum height of 600-800 meters was carried out by shot down (friendly) crews, even in this case it was impossible to place the bombs, the height and atmospheric conditions were not taken into account, it was already impossible to deduce the pawn below 600 m, the heavy construction and aerodynamics of the fighter nullified the bombing from the peak, so that even experienced and close-knit pawn crews did not achieve what the bast-type special machines did, and tests carried out in Germany bf110 as a picker gave a negative result, everyone knows the Germans are far from stupid
    2. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 18 February 2014 16: 13
      Quote: Stas57
      15 o'clock and to blame the fascists, and die for their homeland having a raid at 6 o'clock ... and the dead no longer "blather".
      well, it's unpleasant for me to "blather"

      Hi Stas!
      Timofei Panteleevich Punev wanted to fight - and he fought. He had two devices - SB and Pe-2. He involuntarily compares them.
      But in one thing he is right - if someone bothers with eggs, then this someone will always find a reason.
      On the skill of pilots.
      Someone and "Shniva" will suit, and someone and "Gelik" - a bucket of nuts ...
      If you start such a topic about "thirty-four", then the disputes will be endless, and EVERYONE will be RIGHT.
      1. Stas57
        Stas57 18 February 2014 16: 40
        Quote: stalkerwalker
        Timofei Panteleevich Punev wanted to fight - and he fought. He had two devices - SB and Pe-2. He involuntarily compares them.

        he is a pre-war pilot with experience, and there was still a lot of young people, with experience in 6 hours and immediately after school they went to fight.
        The book of Drabkin gives different views on the machine, and negative too, so it is a holistic work.
        And here is a narration torn from a horse-text, from which one version is like everything is fine, and the rest are lamers.
        ps. a book on occupation was published in Orel, a huge bunch of photos
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 18 February 2014 17: 48
          Quote: Stas57
          ps. a book on occupation was published in Orel, a huge bunch of photos

          Yeah ...
          And I already went to work ....
          What a sadness. Okay, I'll be back and get it.
  17. badger1974
    badger1974 18 February 2014 12: 59
    the old man is clearly being cunning when talking about dive fighters - "That's right. They used a universal one, and we used the one that gives a greater effect in bombing" because the Pe-2 was created as a long-range escort fighter before World War II, like its brothers the German BF-110 and American Lightning , and if we talk about station wagons, then the Pawn was the most universal universal of the war without requiring fighter cover
    1. Taoist
      Taoist 18 February 2014 13: 36
      I don't see any special "guile" here - in fact, we are talking about the capabilities of a multi-seat and one-seater car. Always, all other things being equal, the division of functions (between aircraft or between crew members) is better than the notorious "universalism". We used to joke that "a fighter bomber is a shitty fighter and the same bomber" ...
      The versatility of military vehicles is rather a tribute to the economy for which they have to pay with a decrease in combat effectiveness in a particular case of combat use.
      1. badger1974
        badger1974 18 February 2014 13: 54
        then such a question, did the pawn be conceived by Petlyakov as a dive player or all at first as a fighter? and why the bf-110 did not become the same, although technically the 110th is a cut above the pawn, it was widely used as a bomber fighter on the eastern front, but success is less than that of a pawn, which means that it’s not an easy task to get from the fighter, and viability lies in the key of crews, no more
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 18 February 2014 14: 01
          Question to everyone! Where is it removed? Clickable, you can consider everything
          1. smersh70
            smersh70 18 February 2014 14: 11
            judging by the flashlight, this is Junkers-87, Piece.)))) Well, then they had the level of technology.
            1. Day 11
              Day 11 18 February 2014 14: 25
              No friend is exactly the 110th!
              1. smersh70
                smersh70 18 February 2014 16: 18
                Quote: Den 11
                No friend is exactly the 110th!

                Dan, he had 2 cab options - you can’t tell from 110 here

                but the second version of the cabin--

                PLPD3OngHzGMD5ApK0l-1fwPqsG-l [/ img]
                just could not upload 2 photos .. how to do it .......
                1. Day 11
                  Day 11 18 February 2014 16: 23
                  Old man, why did you post the picture? It's the same thing, and the conversation was about 110th
                  1. smersh70
                    smersh70 18 February 2014 16: 28
                    Quote: Den 11
                    Old man, why did you post the picture? It's the same thing, and the conversation was about 110th

                    about the photo that I posted. It looks more like Stuck, and you said no, this is the 110th. So I laid out 2 cabins for you. One piece, exactly the same as in your photo .....
                    1. Day 11
                      Day 11 18 February 2014 16: 47
                      That's it. I understood. There is still a difference. By the way, this is the D-series. What is it hanging under its wing? Who will explain it? Answer-bomb-not accepted
                      1. ICT
                        ICT 18 February 2014 17: 20
                        and the cluster bomb is more accurate

                        hanging container - AB-250-3 / II.
                      2. Day 11
                        Day 11 18 February 2014 17: 25
                        I also thought about a cassette charge (with an increase, it can be seen in the separation).
                      3. ICT
                        ICT 18 February 2014 17: 35
                        Quote: Den 11

                        it’s not me, but the new idol of our world, five minutes ago I didn’t know
      2. Alex 241
        Alex 241 18 February 2014 14: 24
        The heavy fighter Messerschmitt Bf.110 E-1 from the Stab II / ZG76 is being prepared for departure at the Pori airfield (Finland). This aircraft was flown by Knight's Cross Knight Major Erich Groth. The picture was taken on August 8, 1941, and four days after that, the pilot died in an accident near Stavanger (Norway).

        In the cockpit of a German fighter Messerschmitt Bf. 110 during flight.
      3. badger1974
        badger1974 18 February 2014 14: 33
        it's the 110th, with no options,
        1. smersh70
          smersh70 18 February 2014 15: 56
          Quote: badger1974
          it's the 110th, with no options,

          I flew on it bully heavy, massive, powerful, but clumsy, just awful, shot down just like that wassat
          1. badger1974
            badger1974 18 February 2014 23: 40
            Is this about the IL-2 toy? I was waiting for development after the golden series, but no, there would be a lot to complete there and then the eternal toy
          2. rubin6286
            rubin6286 19 February 2014 13: 20
            You flew on a "toy". German pilots (now the old people) told me that, unlike the Me-109, the 110th was a simple, obedient machine.
            The armament is powerful and rationally placed, good ammunition load. When you fly, all the time it seems that there is not enough power and you want to give "gas". After the battles over England, everyone told Messerschmitt that he needed new motors twice as powerful. Then he could fight on verticals with the Spitfire on equal terms.
            1. badger1974
              badger1974 19 February 2014 20: 18
              a pretty good il-2 simulator, at least the reviews of former aviation veterans, both German and ours, are positive, and even so the single-seat most massive night fighter based on 110 was the best than the fv-190 and bf-109
              1. rubin6286
                rubin6286 24 February 2014 00: 01
                For the Germans, air defense was built according to the zonal principle. The fighter was supposed to barrage in the specified zone and meet the enemy on the way to the bombing target. Me-110 could stay longer in the air and was more effective, and even more so with a panoramic radar. Me-109 and FV-190 could detect the enemy at night only visually and were much less in the air.
                1. badger1974
                  badger1974 24 February 2014 01: 50
                  I dare to assure you that the tactics of nightlights were according to technical support during the Second World War, what you stipulated about at the end of the war, namely with the use of Naxos and Neptune, and even these single-motor vehicles could hardly pull, the whole burden of nightlights fell on the 110th, and Schnaufer example
      4. fzr1000
        fzr1000 18 February 2014 16: 08
        Down at the feet of the navigator's radar?
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 18 February 2014 16: 10
          In this case, "Neptune", although there were also "Lichensteins"
          1. Day 11
            Day 11 18 February 2014 19: 30
            Here, by the way, are those "Antlers" of Liechtenstein. If someone else is interested. Can you calculate the wavelength?
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 18 February 2014 19: 42
              "Liechtenstein B / C" -60 cm, later-72 cm. The British worked -10 cm.
              1. Day 11
                Day 11 18 February 2014 19: 45
                Well done! I figured it out or spied? Neptune, by the way, is also about 10 cm
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 18 February 2014 19: 53
                  The magazine "Military aircraft of the Second World War" just remembered, but from the physics course you can approximately calculate: the length of the antenna (vibrator) is equal to half the wavelength of the emitted signal
                  1. Day 11
                    Day 11 18 February 2014 20: 00
                    What can I say? -Smart girl! You are not idle talk, like some. It is always pleasant to talk with you !!!
            2. badger1974
              badger1974 18 February 2014 23: 52
              all antennas are lights, only in the middle of a landmine 212 and four deer is a landmine 220
          2. badger1974
            badger1974 18 February 2014 23: 43
            the neptunes of Berlin and the Naxos were much later among the Germans and in scanty amounts, and the lighters went through the whole war
      5. smersh70
        smersh70 18 February 2014 16: 24
        here his flashlight differs from 110, but on the one that he posted earlier, the difference is not visible
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 18 February 2014 16: 25
          Brakes on a friend. Who are we talking about?
    2. rubin6286
      rubin6286 19 February 2014 13: 11
      The Pe-2 was originally created as a high-altitude fighter (project "weaving." Both the Pe-110 and the Me-2 were used in battles. It is difficult to say who is more successful. Probably, it is necessary to compare the number of vehicles fired and lost in battles, but is it necessary?
  • Day 11
    Day 11 18 February 2014 13: 46
    You want to say that the Pe-2 (3) could equally compete with the Me-109 (I'm not talking about the trick)? The deepest mistake !!!
    1. badger1974
      badger1974 18 February 2014 14: 40
      Pe-3 at heights of more than 5000 meters had undeniable advantages over the ME-109E and Ф series due to excessive specific traction at such heights, the Gustav series already lost everything, and the 110th with the same engines
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 18 February 2014 14: 45
        Истребитель Пе-3
        . Php
  • vtur
    vtur 18 February 2014 14: 46
    Quote: badger1974
    Pawn was the most versatile universal of the war without requiring fighter cover

    Any aircraft, even a fighter with bombs, requires fighter cover - otherwise, when enemy fighters appear, bombs need to be urgently dropped. The same applies to outboard fuel tanks - with any external suspension the fighter turns into an iron.
    1. badger1974
      badger1974 19 February 2014 00: 01
      then tell me how many fighters stood out for the actions of the British bomber Mosquito? zero, by the way, the mosquito stood out as a marker in night raids, and after marking the targets it became a hunter for German hunters, and it must be said extremely successfully, but nobody did it from him, so with a well-thought-out tactic, the pawn could have used it too, but it happened - and this pickiness brought our pawn a nasty glory
      1. Taoist
        Taoist 19 February 2014 11: 41
        incorrect comparison. They tried not to use "Mosquito" during the day. Selected crews flew on them. They were not used as "frontline" ones. Those. worked in the deep rear where the air defense density is lower. Those. the machine was initially sharpened for the fight-and-flight variant of combat. And also, the fighter versions of the Mosquito did not carry bombs and vice versa (the car was compressed to the limit to achieve speed characteristics). We had a car copied from the Mosquito - this is the Yak-4 (aka BB - 2) But in the conditions of the Eastern Front, this tactic turned out to be of little use - and the otchetsvenny Mosquito did not achieve any success and quickly left the scene.
        1. badger1974
          badger1974 19 February 2014 12: 22
          Yak-4 is generally not mentioned anywhere in the memoirs, so judging success or failure is completely difficult (theoretically), but by comparing the pawn as a pachfinder for IL-4 and Boston, I was right from the pawn It would be of great use in night raids, because the losses from German night-lights were unpleasant, many did not understand why it was shot down
          1. Taoist
            Taoist 19 February 2014 14: 14
            They were released little, almost all of them were lost in the first months of the war in daytime sorties along the front line of the advancing German troops ... most likely there was simply no one to write memoirs. But there are archival documents.
            1. Duke
              Duke 26 February 2014 00: 48
              As far as I remember with the installation of the rear turret, the yak -4 significantly reduced speed.
  • MahsusNazar
    MahsusNazar 18 February 2014 13: 01
    Quote: Den 11
    A stupid repost of Artyom Drapkin from his book. On the topic --- shit plane, nikago comparisons with the U-87! Remind me when did you decide to go into the peak on it? What dive angle was acceptable on it and on Stuck?

    Yes you, my friend - special! How shall I take a look!
    "It was smooth on paper, but they forgot about the ravines!"
    Paper TTX and real combat use has a significant difference.
  • polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 18 February 2014 13: 08
    I read it with great pleasure, Glory to You Soldier himself says he did not fight for awards, although he and many other titles of Hero are worthy, it's a joke, is there one bombing and there is no tank regiment! These "grandfathers" should teach young people, not representatives of the "fifth column".
  • lazy
    lazy 18 February 2014 14: 56
    slow-moving, with a fixed gear, only one machine gun to cover from attacks from behind, the junkers was a technical squalor capable of fighting only if there was air supremacy, and Rudel and Hartman were vivid representatives of the heirs of Baron Munchausen.
    1. Day 11
      Day 11 18 February 2014 15: 07
      Nevertheless, everyone remembers and speaks about them! Which of ours do you remember except for brands such as Pokryshkin, Kozhedub, Maresyev -What? Of course, if you are studying the history of the Second World War, bring a bunch of names! And young people who know? Maybe also Rechkalov will remember (not a fact), But E. Hartmann, Galland, Barkhorn, Mueller, Rude
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 18 February 2014 15: 29
        Klubnev, Golubev (led Pokryshkina) Glinka brothers, Vorozheikin, Gulyaev (attack pilot)
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 18 February 2014 15: 36
          You see, Sasha, you know. And ask (and show these pictures) your grandchildren? --- That's it!
          1. Duke
            Duke 26 February 2014 00: 51
            Glinka wrote about Yakovlev in his memoirs.
      2. Taoist
        Taoist 18 February 2014 15: 37
        There is such a thing as "PR" - and so these gentlemen quite successfully hyped themselves up. Or they were "promoted" ... Why and how? The question is acute. For a long time it was not customary for us to write "memoirs". Yes, and those that were written so ruled "glavpour" that there was nothing left of life at all. By the way, in this promotion robust and "allies" were noted - it was also beneficial for them from the point of view of PR - they won what aces ... Ours, of course, dumped the fool as usual. For a long time portraying the Germans as idiots and thereby belittling their victories.
        The value of the "hunting stories" of Rudel and others like him has already been written and rewritten ... Initially, the different scheme of the combat employment of aviation does not allow simply stupidly equating one to the other. But there is one most compelling indicator. This is the outcome of the war. In any war, the one who won the best fought.
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 18 February 2014 15: 46
          Was it Rudolf Müller who wrote a bunch of "memoirs"? He was a fighter-fighter and died (in our captivity, if anyone doesn't know)! NOBODY can dispute this!
      3. Colonel
        Colonel 18 February 2014 15: 38
        Remembering Hartman and not remembering Polbin is a unique disgrace. Although not surprised. Your German means the best. And they are better fighters, and their equipment is much better, and their generals are smarter. The Wehrmacht is your everything. The SS, however, was a little shame. I counted Major Punev in the photo four military orders (Soviet). Do you have more? Brand, damn it.
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 18 February 2014 15: 49
          Duck explain to your children, grandchildren, that our Vani was NOT WELL BETTER of the German Hans!
          1. vtur
            vtur 18 February 2014 16: 40
            Quote: Den 11
            Duck explain to your children, grandchildren, that our Vani was NOT WELL BETTER of the German Hans!

            Those of our "Vani" that survived 1941-42, survived in the infantry, before they were returned to the aviation were better than those "Hans" who sat at the controls in 1944 ...
            The Germans did not have FIRING aviation - they had SPORTS - they all "worked" for personal results, throughout the war they threw their bombers to draw another "coffin" on the launch vehicle. Rudel, Hartman and others were ATHLETES. And I don't want to say at all that they weren't outstanding pilots - it's just incorrect to compare who is better and who is worse ...
            1. rubin6286
              rubin6286 19 February 2014 13: 33
              I was acquainted with front-line pilot Gesem, who also fought in Korea. He said that the German pilots were real fighters. They were more persistent, smarter and more calculating than the Americans. The battle was tougher, If necessary, also went on the forehead and did not turn off. Gradually, the quality of pilot training declined, affecting the loss and lack of fuel. For cowardice, evasion of the battle, unauthorized removal from escort of bombers, the perpetrators were shot before the formation. Goering. Upon learning of such cases, removed from the posts of commanders of groups and squadrons, and deprived some of the awards.
          2. Dooplet11
            Dooplet11 28 July 2017 13: 31
            And you do not want to participate in this?
        2. vtur
          vtur 18 February 2014 16: 30
          Quote: colonel
          and their generals are smarter

          And their generals were smarter. But only before the conspiracy against Hitler (after the conspiracy, all the survivors realized that it was dangerous to be smart). And they were smarter than not only ours, but also the English and all the others combined (I generally keep quiet about the Italian "strategists"). Otherwise, WW II would have ended somewhere in the middle - end of 1942, when the Soviet liberator soldier would wash his footcloths in the English Channel ...
        3. vtur
          vtur 18 February 2014 16: 51
          Quote: colonel
          Remember Hartman and not remember Polbin is a unique disgust

          Remember, perhaps, everyone is worth. There is no point in promoting and speculating ... Books about Hartman and Rudel are a product of the Cold War and should be treated accordingly. And our memoir literature is a product of the Khrushchev-Brezhnev agitprop. That's how people who are not indifferent to military history found themselves between Scylla and Harbida ...
          Now on National Geographic there is an interesting series "Air Aces of War". I recommend to everyone...
          1. Cynic
            Cynic 19 February 2014 21: 15
            Quote: vtur
            . And our memoir literature is a product of the Khrushchev-Brezhnev agitprop.

            And how many books have you read in this series? I think enough to say so.
            But still, how much?
        4. Cynic
          Cynic 18 February 2014 17: 52
          Quote: colonel
          Remembering Hartman and not remembering Polbin is a unique disgrace.

          Not all
        5. Cynic
          Cynic 18 February 2014 17: 57
          Quote: colonel
          Your German means the best. And they are better fighters, and their equipment is much better, and their generals are smarter. The Wehrmacht is your everything.

          The most amazing thing for such experts is the result.
          1. Day 11
            Day 11 18 February 2014 20: 13
            "The result" he pokes me under my nose - do you know that without the help of the Yankees we would have been bent already in 41? Although we bent too much, we would have rolled back to the East, right up to Khabarovsk. Do not you believe? It is clear that we are a crowd - they would be defeated in any case
            1. badger1974
              badger1974 19 February 2014 02: 18
              from Lend-Lease we got 10 percent of which almost 5 percent is at the bottom of the Arctic, so it’s in vain about the West’s rescue assistance, it accelerated only when it became extremely clear who would be the winner, and the main workers of the rear and the population of the USSR played not mythical west
        6. badger1974
          badger1974 19 February 2014 01: 54
          but what about Vasily Ivanovich Rakov? under Soviet propaganda, he told how they sank the training Niobe together with their dive bombers together with their dive bombers, they took the topmast and torpedo bombers, and the Pe-2's success was regarded as useless, and after all, Rakov cannot be called a newcomer, this GSSR received before the beginning of the Second World War he is such a picker pawn
          1. vtur
            vtur 19 February 2014 09: 58
            Quote: badger1974
            But what about Rakov Vasily Ivanovich?

            I love his book "Wings over the Sea" ...
            But Rakov is an "ordinary" hero (or rather twice)
            The first star - for success in the flight training of the unit entrusted to him
            The second is based on the totality of merit. I hope I remember everything correctly. Not an upstart and outstanding marine pilot flying in any weather ...
            1. badger1974
              badger1974 19 February 2014 10: 58
              exactly, and by the way about weather conditions, for the aviation of the Red Army and the Navy this was not the reason, especially for the aviation of the battlefield (front-line soldiers and attack aircraft), the order went either on a mission or at a loss, there could only be one reason for this because of equipment malfunction, German experts noted this with admiration
          2. Taoist
            Taoist 19 February 2014 11: 48
            Well, firstly, the NIOBE was far from a training ship. Secondly, there was a combined strike - and as practice has shown, "mastheads" were generally more effective for striking ships than dive bombers. So this particular case says little about the actual fighting qualities of the Pawn.
            1. badger1974
              badger1974 19 February 2014 12: 28
              as there is so little, this is precisely the case when an accurate dive is needed, because anti-aircraft weapons are not easy to calculate ballistics at 80 degrees, but it never happened, this is one of thousands of examples of the "accuracy" of pawns as a dive bomber, and I emphasize, at the controls there were shabby rolls of the Navy Air Force
              1. Taoist
                Taoist 19 February 2014 13: 59
                From the point of view of anti-aircraft fire control, the dive bomber is a fairly simple target. Firstly, to the starting point of the dive, he is forced to crawl for a long time at a high altitude when the relative angular guidance velocities are small. Secondly, it dives with a steady angle without having the ability to maneuver at the time of the dive. And most of the ship's guns can fire at high-flying targets. Another question is that for effective counteraction, anti-aircraft gunners must have nerves of steel and good computers. The top mast attacks from a minimum height, leaving very little time for reaction, in a limited course angle, can vigorously maneuver almost until the moment of dropping and a limited number of trunks can fire at it in this position. (By the way, an interesting fact - the "string bags" that attacked Bismarck turned out to be below the declination level of the barrels of his anti-aircraft guns and practically in the dead zone. So it turned out that they didn't manage to get into the "standing" cars. Dive bombers would hardly have gotten off so easily ...
                1. badger1974
                  badger1974 19 February 2014 21: 05
                  but star-striped just at the battle of Father Midway proved the success of the single-engine a-24 dive-bombers, they did the job, the torpedo bombers were given a distracting role
                  1. Taoist
                    Taoist 19 February 2014 22: 35
                    It is not indicative of who was given a distracting role there at all - the attacks were chaotic and often random because the groups lost their orientation, their goals and often attacked like a god put ... that the attack of a lost group of dive-bombers occurred exactly at the moment when the Japanese repelled the attack torpedoes and their decks were clogged with rearmament aircraft this is more likely a fortunate combination of circumstances and by no means an idea. Well, those bombs that still couldn’t be destroyed by any other ship except the aircraft carrier ... And then the English with their armored decks in these cases did not suffer any special losses. The combat load of the dive is too insignificant. To defeat a warship, a bomb with a caliber of less than 500 kg is practically useless.
                    1. Cynic
                      Cynic 20 February 2014 08: 41
                      Quote: Taoist
                      To destroy a warship, a bomb with a caliber of less than 500 kg is practically useless.

                      Here the quality (inflicting sufficient damage) was achieved by the amount of damage inflicted.
                    2. badger1974
                      badger1974 20 February 2014 10: 56
                      But what about the death of Yamato? 500 kg is enough to bring out the main-caliber guidance post and anti-aircraft control posts, so the battleships were drowning well from the dive bombers too, the main thing is to get there, but the twin-engine dive-bomber with tight hit, it’s like that
                      1. Taoist
                        Taoist 20 February 2014 14: 03
                        To disable fire control posts, 100kg is enough. Moreover, the anti-aircraft guns themselves, even on battleships, at best have only bulletproof booking. Another question is that from this ships do not sink. Drowning from hits not on decks. And from the scuttled side. And this is either a torpedo or a topmacht.
                        In general, the dive player (if we ignore his largely publicized and not real fame) turned out to be a tainted, dead-end way of developing TSA. They were de facto less than ten years old. With the advent of automatic bomb sights and guided weapons, the need for such a dangerous and complex form of attack completely disappeared.
                      2. badger1974
                        badger1974 20 February 2014 14: 21
                        I read somewhere else how a wildket from a dive destroyed with its 12.7 a Japanese destroyer that sank, I don’t remember where it happened,
                        at the expense of dead-end, there’s nothing to argue about, just like machine guns from military aircraft went into oblivion (helicopters are an exception)
                        I’m talking about the fact that the twin-engine picker was only in our Air Force and exactly lost to all the world’s dive players, who were all single-engine
                      3. Taoist
                        Taoist 21 February 2014 12: 12
                        Well, who told you that only with us. Yu-88 - the Germans.
                        SM-85,86 for Italians, SAAB B18 for Swedes, Ki66 for Japanese ...

                        In fact, there were enough twin-engine dive machines. Another question is that with increasing size and weight of the aircraft, it is becoming increasingly difficult to ensure its stable dive and the structural strength required for this maneuver. This accordingly affected the combat load. As a result, a dead end.
                      4. badger1974
                        badger1974 21 February 2014 14: 31
                        foreign twin-engine bombers had the opportunity to dive — but not the main method of bombing, but if we talk about u-88, then he has a decent lottery, and if he refused then he could use a dive, although the crews didn’t use it very much (reception) since it was like a pawn, a huge yaw, 66 Japanese can be counted on fingers, Swedes can be left out, Italians too, so the twin-engine piker is only with the Red Army,
                      5. Taoist
                        Taoist 21 February 2014 17: 05
                        Well, I already wrote that this is a relative question. The pawn, like all its "peers", is not a pure dive bomber ... but a front-line bomber with a dive attack capability. Therefore, it was not unique. For example, the ODB was a pure dive bomber - but it did not go into series ... the dive machine is too highly specialized and unsuitable for anything else ... The same Thing, which became almost a legend, actually very quickly lost its effectiveness. And it was not suitable for anything else ...
                      6. badger1974
                        badger1974 21 February 2014 18: 22
                        Well, in general, we came to an understanding that there is no pawn like a painted picker, and a highly specialized aircraft with a massive flow of IL-2 is impractical, a good pawn would be like a bomber, a night light, a patchfinder. and picker-here on a capable crew, by the way, the Raskova regiment did not bomb much for all its combat missions, also calling itself the Guards, for example, not the ordinary Guards ShAP on the IL-2 "thrashed" twice or even three times more, or to for example, the non-guards Fighter AP 611 operating on ground targets on the Yak and Lagg
  • lazy
    lazy 2 March 2014 14: 42
    they were untwisted during the Cold War in the West (America is strong in PR and it will make candy out of shit), and during the years of reform, the liberals, trying to crap the Soviet Union, tried to untwist them here too.
  • 7ydmco
    7ydmco 18 February 2014 16: 22
    The battle for England, and subsequently the course of the Second World War, was clearly demonstrated.
    1. badger1974
      badger1974 19 February 2014 02: 52
      zee loewe because it did not go into implementation, because the German car was directed to the east with the help of Western agreements, otherwise the non-Aryans would have broken the ridge of the Saxons, it was a matter of time, by the way, the Hess did not fly to the country of the Saxons in vain, after its flight and acquired the second world war in the west as a "strange war"
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Cynic
    Cynic 18 February 2014 17: 49
    Quote: lazy
    Rudel and Hartmann are bright representatives of the heirs of Baron Munchausen.

    The humiliation of the enemy first of all humiliates the humiliating!
    An example for the slow-witted _ If they are such, then what kind are we, if Moscow had them after a few months of the war, and we are in Berlin after a few years!?
    BUT ?
    Or again
    little blood, on foreign territory, a mighty blow
    1. rkkasa xnumx
      rkkasa xnumx 18 February 2014 21: 39
      Quote: Cynic
      An example for the slow-witted _ If they are such, then what kind are we, if Moscow had them after a few months of the war, and we are in Berlin after a few years!?

      War is a competition where the victory is not for the one who quickly approached the capital of the enemy, but for the one who accepts the surrender of the enemy.
  • 7ydmco
    7ydmco 18 February 2014 15: 52
    Quote: Den 11
    .On the topic --- shit plane, nikago comparison with the Yu-87

    Wow, modern historians are already comparing with the Pe-2 not just a different aircraft in design but also twice as heavy? and they are funny smile
  • hrenodir
    hrenodir 18 February 2014 17: 28
    Good afternoon! I read komenty and that's what I want to say about German quality. (Sorry that this is not about airplanes) Maybe the Germans used to do something qualitatively, now it sucks. I am fully responsible for my words, since I work on German equipment MANROLAND. Only China can be worse ...
    1. ICT
      ICT 18 February 2014 17: 33
      Quote: hrenodir
      since I work on German equipment MANROLAND. Only China can be worse.

      well, they just also heard about the parable as the best cabinetmaker died of hunger (the consumer society rules)
    2. fzr1000
      fzr1000 18 February 2014 17: 35
      Not so long ago it was. I have a Bosch washer, 1994 onwards ... All the inscriptions of the modes are in German. Pah-pah, only the drain pump changed. But those days have passed.
      1. ICT
        ICT 18 February 2014 18: 20
        Quote: fzr1000
        Not so long ago it was. I have a Bosch washer, 1994 onwards

        cars are more indicative in this regard, earlier only change the oil and look behind the pads and there will not be a demolition for a hundred years i.e. millionaires, and now after three years, change to a new something like this
  • Vitmir
    Vitmir 18 February 2014 17: 30
    A wonderful article and honor and praise to a veteran is a veteran of a victorious army, honest, direct, military. The real warrior.
    1. Day 11
      Day 11 18 February 2014 17: 43
      Long live the MOST invincible, The very best ...! We’ll tear them all, spread them all, we’ll put the USA in cancer. You’ll give a 5-year-old in 2 years! Hurray comrades!
  • 7ydmco
    7ydmco 18 February 2014 18: 16
    Quote: Cynic
    The humiliation of the enemy first of all humiliates the humiliating! An example for the slow-witted _ If they are such, then what are we, if in Moscow they were after a few months of the war, and we are in Berlin after a few years!?

    And where does the humiliation? Yes, and it was only about 2 characters. But is it that they are liars, excluding their professionalism as a soldier?
    1. Cynic
      Cynic 18 February 2014 18: 34
      Quote: 7ydmco
      But is it that they are liars, excluding their professionalism as a soldier?

      Yes, somehow for the pros this is little noticed, although there is such a soldier's bike. He will immediately understand his own, but let others be horrified by the might ... In general, further depending on the plot and type of troops.
      Yes, still _ Karl Friedrich Jerome Baron von Munchausen actually actually served in the military service in Russia, if that.
      1. 7ydmco
        7ydmco 18 February 2014 23: 18
        Quote: Cynic
        Yes, somehow for the pros it’s little noticed

        Pros are also people, but they are different people smile Yes, and the study of inferiority among the pros, I think you did not smile
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • Smiles to you
    Smiles to you 18 February 2014 18: 36
    Many thanks to the Veteran Pilot! Long life to you all! I read it with great interest. Thanks to the author for the detailed and interesting questions! Tremendous PLUS ...
  • max73
    max73 18 February 2014 19: 59
    here many unsubscribed that they read in the same breath and from cover to cover ...
    I read ..
    "AS The radio operator from his ShKAS often fired upwards?

    T.P. Seldom. During the battle, the navigator "held" the upper hemisphere, the radio operator - the lower one. It was worked out. If the navigator fired, the radio operator did not even stick out. And he has no time to look up, his task is to cover from below. "

    a little bit later:
    "AS Timofey Panteleevich, what was the consumption of ammunition in battle?

    T.P. The navigator was "burned out" completely, the gunner-radio operator almost, and often completely, the pilot could not shoot one, but could all. Everything depended on the battle. The radio operator spent part of the ammunition working "on the ground", but did not get carried away. You never know what, suddenly you have to fight off the fighters, but there are no cartridges. "
    and so on inconsistencies and repetitive questions ... then the cockpit, then the dive, then the connection, then the plane is a fairy tale ... otherwise you need to be able to fly ... the grandfather seems to be fighting and with character, only .... for some time now, a resource "I remember" stopped reading .... why? read carefully and thoughtfully ...
    1. Taoist
      Taoist 18 February 2014 22: 58
      And where did you see the contradiction here? The radio operator had the main machine gun with a hatch UBT, the ShKAS was a spare one and was used as a rocker in the side windows. Occasionally (when the navigator, for various reasons, could not fire up and back, this ShKAS was used "from the hands" in the upper astroluk. Again, when attacking a fighter (usually from above and behind), the main burden of repelling the attack fell on the navigator's drill collar - his BC was spent It is much more difficult to attack such a high-speed vehicle as a Pawn from below from behind, so the shooter could have ammunition or it was partially consumed when firing at the ground.
      Well, as regards the contradictions in the memoirs - there is nothing surprising in principle ... human memory is selective and often fragmentary. Especially when it comes to situations of severe stress. So this does not detract from the significance of the memory itself. It's just that memory is primarily an emotional cast and not a document for studying the details of a story.
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 18 February 2014 23: 06
        Aircraft Pe-2 (1944)
  • Alf
    Alf 18 February 2014 20: 28
    Quote: smersh70
    By the way, can someone say -30 sorties are not too small for such an airplane. This is what a burden for the industry. Interesting, but how much were the sorties limited by the American, for example, the B-17s ..

    If my memory serves me right, in Europe the survivability of the B-17 was 24-25 sorties.
    1. smersh70
      smersh70 19 February 2014 00: 24
      Quote: Alf
      Europe survivability of the B-17 was 24-25 sorties.
      this is real survivability, and I asked about the industrial restriction ....
      1. badger1974
        badger1974 19 February 2014 21: 10
        industrial? Consider the engine's motorsource, since the all-metal construction usually holds aerodynamic loads for a long time
    2. vtur
      vtur 19 February 2014 10: 07
      Quote: Alf
      in Europe, the survivability of the B-17 was 24-25 howl

      And the film "Memphis Beauty", I hope everyone remembers? Real plane (survived) and real crew.
      After 25 sorties, the Americans were sent home. And what percentage lived up to this happy moment? The British gave leave after 30 sorties, and many did not have time to complete 20 ...
  • akm8226
    akm8226 19 February 2014 00: 37
    Here is a competent person! Honor and glory to our pilots! I read the article with great pleasure - bravo!
  • Sergey7311
    Sergey7311 19 February 2014 08: 59
    Great article. Or a report. A person knows exactly what he is talking about ...
  • Ursus
    Ursus 26 February 2014 21: 19
    Thanks to the hero of the article!
    The article is super!
  • Viktor64
    Viktor64 11 June 2014 11: 50
    Sumptuously. Without any nonsense and political burda. Everyone who scolds Pe2. The pilot forgot to indicate one more plus - cheapness in production, with quite excellent characteristics and the possibility of production by workers below average.
  • Volga Cossack
    Volga Cossack 5 February 2015 19: 37
    very nice article! thank!
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  • Primary
    Primary 15 August 2015 04: 10
    I read it with great interest, since my grandfather fought on such a plane as a navigator. To my great regret, he died a long time ago and, in infancy, I do not remember his stories (((
  • pal
    pal 24 January 2018 18: 39
    Great article! Read and as if the music sounded! I deeply respect and bow to the courage and professionalism of our grandfathers and great-grandfathers! Their resilience fills the heart with pride, and loss pours its bitterness.
    I remembered an old story. About 8 years ago during a walk we heard a helicopter landing nearby. Naturally, we rushed there. Aviation in our blood since childhood. We saw amazing beauty with swift contours of a red - white bird! Our genuine delight easily got permission from the pilot to take a picture with the car. After talking, they learned that the pilot is German and rides tourists. Then something jumped over her and smiling she said that she knew Russia! Her grandfather was a bomber during the Second World War and flew to Moscow!
    Then I was thwarted and with sincere joy I blurted out to her in response that in this case we know twice! After all, our grandmother bombed Berlin!
    The joy on the face of a new acquaintance instantly disappeared and her teeth clenched something hissed, and then abruptly left.
    “Here,” my wife said to me with a suitability: “Well, our grandmother fought! Remember! "
    The name of our pilot was Timofeeva Evgenia Dmitrievna.

    About Pe-2, she always spoke with pride and love. The man was straightforward, and therefore, like the hero of the article, he was little loved by the authorities. They read the article together with the whole family and, as if, again heard their grandmother.

    Thanks you!