Military Review

Our armored train

93
One of the most notable News the outgoing year was the statement of the First Deputy Minister of Defense of Kazakhstan, Colonel General Saken Zhasuzakov that, in his opinion, in 2016, 99 percent of the army will be professionals. Until this moment, conscripts will be called up, but in smaller numbers. So, now the number of conscripts is about 12 thousand soldiers. This fall, another 6 thousand will be fired and 1,5 thousand will be recruited, in the spring of 2014, 6 thousand will be fired again and 1,5 thousand will again be recruited.


Our armored train


This information caused a very different reaction in Kazakhstani society and outside the country. For the older generation, who still remembers the Soviet mobilization system, the question of military service causes mixed feelings. On the one hand, the call itself was recalled as an extremely unpleasant duty. On the other hand, as time passed, military service was perceived as the greatest adventure in life. Especially if you had to serve in different parts of a huge country.

For most of Kazakhstani society, this was good news. No more tragic incidents involving draftees would have to be expected. At the same time, this news was probably very upset for many. Because the army was an important social elevator, which allowed people from the village to rely on service in the police or the KNB. Therefore, our youth so sought in the army.

However, in a more professional environment, the issue of a draft army was considered from fundamentally different positions. Some have paid attention to the fact that now Kazakhstan will not have a prepared reserve. Others stated that the transition to a professional army is due to the fact that it is less connected with society and can therefore also be used to solve domestic political problems. Still others, on the contrary, emphasized that serving in the modern army requires lengthy training, which the draft cannot provide for just one year.

However, among other arguments stood out the well-known thesis that Kazakhstan would still not be able to resist any of the potential opponents, except for some Central Asian countries. Consequently, it does not matter what kind of army Kazakhstan will have - professional or recruiting. It will still be small and will perform symbolic functions.

In principle, the transition to a fully professional army is associated with the rejection of the Soviet concept of a mass army, when the entire male population serves in the army and then enters the reserve. Such a system was supposed to allow the USSR to deploy multimillion-dollar troops to wage a global war. The basis for building such a system was the experience of the Second World War. Then, despite the loss in the first months of the war of almost all regular units, the USSR was able to re-create the army due to the total mobilization of the population.

However, such a system was very expensive. In addition to the huge recruiting machine and the need to ensure the maintenance of a multimillion-dollar contingent, the army in the USSR had a large number of cropped divisions. In such divisions there was a limited number of officers and soldiers to maintain equipment and weapons in working condition. In the event of war, they had to turn into full-fledged units due to the call of reservists. And since there were many reservists, the reserves weapons were colossal.

In modern conditions, to maintain such a colossus in working condition is simply impossible. Firstly, because no budget can bear such costs. Only the former USSR with its total control over the economy and society, as well as the eternal expectation of a big war, could go for it. Secondly, in the world no one else is preparing for war on the model of the Second World War. So, mass armies are simply not needed. Thirdly, in modern wars, a large role is played by technology and communication systems. For their operation requires professionally trained professionals. It is clear that the recruit for the year of service is not able to fully master the modern requirements.

Conscription has one more advantage for the state. A conscript is cheaper than a contract. Accordingly, military expenditures can be reduced in the budget. However, he is much more powerless than an adult fighter. From here all stories about how conscripts worked on the side on the orders of commanders. In addition, the recruit does not need to create special living conditions.

So refusal of an appeal is a serious decision. It not only requires large investments, but also the restructuring of the entire concept of the use of armed forces. In addition, a professional army is already a very important institution of the state, one of whose functions is to maintain state foundations. The role of the army in the East is always greater than that which it traditionally played in the West.

But even to fulfill its direct functions, a professional army is still more suited to the conditions of Kazakhstan. It is clear that our country is not going to fight with anyone, we have a purely defensive military doctrine and good relations with all our neighbors. Moreover, the independence of Kazakhstan was guaranteed by the great powers at the very moment when we were abandoning nuclear weapons.

Photo source: nomad.suHypothetically, the capture of the territory of our country by foreign troops is possible, but unrealistic. Nowadays there is no point in such actions. Because you still have to leave the occupied territory, as happened with the Russian troops, which, reflecting the attack of the Georgian army on South Ossetia in 2008, occupied the cities of Senaki, Gori and Poti on the territory of Georgia. If you leave your troops in the occupied territory, then, on the one hand, this is a very costly measure, on the other - it worsens the country's position in the international arena.

Practically the only way to occupy and hold for a long time a piece of someone else’s territory if there has previously been an internal conflict, for example, on ethnic grounds. That is, the pretext should be given by the state on whose territory they attempt or attempt to encroach. If the state does not give reasons, then there is no reason to interfere in internal affairs.

In the case of China, which has a large army and very significant police formations, many of which are located on our border, any military aggression is basically impossible. Because on the borders with Central Asia, China needs a calm rear. All his military-political activity is concentrated in Southeast Asia. And here in Beijing, everything is not very good.

The last case with the announcement in early December of Chinese control over the air zone in the area of ​​the disputed islands in Japanese, Senkaku, in Chinese Diaoyu, is quite indicative. Beijing declared its readiness to take decisive measures and demanded that Japanese airlines report flight routes through the islands. In response, the United States defiantly sent two B-52 bombers to the islands, which flew through the restricted area. Then it was already violated by Japanese aircraft. And China was in an awkward position, he was forced to pretend that nothing happened. After all the bellicose rhetoric, it turned out to be very humiliating. But such a situation could be calculated. No one will shoot over the disputed territory in a military plane of a great power.

But in any case, China, even if it wants to saber with weapons, will be occupied by the southeast direction for many more decades. In the western direction, his interests are in the strategic defense of Xinjiang so that no problems arise here. In addition, military action against Central Asia will automatically cause opposition from Russia and the United States, as well as a wave of indignation in the Muslim world. For China, which is critically dependent on the development of economic relations with the outside world, some global complications are least needed.

So the global war in our region with the use of mass armies is an incredible development of events. Accordingly, we do not need such an army. But to say that it is not needed in principle, it would be premature.

It should be borne in mind that in our time, a war between states is too expensive to be long. Even the great powers are not ready for long-term hostilities. Therefore, the strategy of small countries can be based on the fact that in the event of aggression of any opponent hold out as long as possible. The most important thing is not to give up. Thus, those who resist, perhaps, will not win the war, but will significantly increase the costs for the attackers. In the end, this will give time to opponents of any aggressor from among the great powers. And such people in the conditions of geopolitical conflict of interests will always be found. They will be able to put pressure on the advancing side. If a small country gives up, then there will be no one to protect.

A very revealing situation occurred in the 1940 year. Then, after the start of World War II in 1939, the USSR began to implement agreements reached with Germany on the division of zones of influence in Eastern Europe. As a result of Moscow’s pressure, the Baltic countries capitulated because the scale of the armed forces of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia was too incomparable. At the same time, the Finns, who were in a similar situation, began to resist. This initially seemed a hopeless struggle, but the Finnish commander Mannerheim said that it was necessary to fight for the sake of future generations.

This is logical, because whoever resists, and in the end they agree, who simply gives up, he has no chance of independently determining his own destiny. So the Latvians with the Estonians ended up in the SS legions. Now they can talk as much as they want that they were called by the Germans and fought against the Soviet empire, but service in the SS left a black mark on their reputation. While the Finns twice fought with the Soviet Union, but after the war, despite the lost territories, they had no problems in relations with the USSR, and then with Russia. As for Latvians and Estonians, relations with Russia are not very good.

A small compact army capable of confronting any adversary, even for a short time, is an objective necessity for an independent state. At the same time, a small professional army is perfectly capable of coping with threats, such as those that occurred in 1999 in Batken, Kyrgyzstan. Then militant groups from Tajikistan broke through to Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan. It does not need a massive army. Therefore, the refusal of Kazakhstan from the mass appeal is quite logical. The main thing is whether he has the financial capabilities and human resources for a professional army.

For example, Russia also wants to increase the number of contract soldiers to about half of the current army in 800 thousand. Although, in principle, Russia is oriented toward the million-strong army. At the same time, in Russia there was always the backbone of professional military officers and warrant officers. This corps was seriously affected by the reforms of the previous Minister of Defense, Anatoly Serdyukov, but still retained its capabilities. But with ordinary contract soldiers the situation is much more complicated.

What is the difference between the situation in Russia and Kazakhstan? The main difference is due to the presence of a significant rural population. In Russia, the village objectively exhausted its human resources. While in our village, after all the reforms of 1990, they remain crowded, families are large. In this situation, military career is a good way to earn money for those who do not have the opportunity to find work in the countryside and have no desire to tempt fate in the city. The salary in 100 thousand tenge per month, plus some social package, will quite suit many Kazakhstanis. Therefore, in Kazakhstan, the military can choose from a large number of applicants, in Russia it is much more difficult to choose. In addition, there is higher expectations, especially among the urban population.

It is also obvious that Russia cannot completely refuse conscripts, as they are going to do in Kazakhstan. Too much territory requires not only the size of the army, but also an impressive number of trained reservists. Although many of the cropped units were disbanded under the former minister of Serdyukov, nevertheless, stocks of weapons and equipment remained, and this makes it possible to use reservists if necessary.

So the army is formed under its task. In Soviet times, the army had to prepare for a big war with NATO, on the one hand, and with China, on the other. It was supposed to contain a large ocean fleet, to have strategic missile forces. All enterprises had to have a strategic reserve for working in conditions of war. Many of them had a dual purpose - civil and military. The entire male population first served in the army, then entered the reserve.

Now, no one is preparing for a big war. Hypothetically, this possibility exists, but in reality, in the context of globalization, war has become too unprofitable.

Military engineering planning

Photo source: voxpopuli.kz This year there were a number of events related to our army. In April, the MiG-31 fighter in the Karaganda region fell. The plane was just before it was repaired in Russia, at the Rzhev aircraft repair plant. According to the findings of the commission, the accident occurred due to a technical defect committed during the repair. The plant itself denied his guilt. However, objectively, the Rzhev factory doesn't have much work at all. For 2012 the year he spent repairing three MiG-31, at least one of them was the same Kazakhstani. In the same year, two Mig-29 were repaired. At the same time, this aircraft is not a profile for the Rzhevsky plant, it only masters its repair. Therefore, one can imagine that the plant has difficulties with personnel and even spare parts.

Although, in fact, not so fundamentally, they were mistaken at the Rzhevsky plant or not. The tragedy occurred with a machine that was released at least 30 years ago. Characteristically, another MiG-31 crashed in Russia on December 11. On these aircraft, the maximum and prohibitive wear of the airframe and the engine are certain. Almost all military aircraft in Kazakhstan are in this condition. They are just very old. Repair can extend the life of the machine, and in recent years Kazakhstan has been actively repairing aircraft in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus. But in the same way, active military training is underway, on the fly our military aviation occupies a leading position in the former USSR (more than 100 hours per year).

Su-24 fighters-bombers available in Kazakhstan do not fly anymore. They were put on a joke, according to one version, because of the complete wear of the car, on the other - because of the refusal of Russia to repair it. In Russia, the Su-24 is being replaced by a new Su-34 aircraft. Probably, it makes no sense for them to keep production facilities for the repair of a model that is being decommissioned. A total of up to 2015 will be written off until 100 of the Russian Su-24. In 2012, these vehicles were decommissioned by the Air Force of Belarus.

At the same time, the Su-34 was created on the basis of the Su-27 fighter, therefore it is not a complete replacement for the front-line bomber Su-24. But today, the Air Force cannot afford the narrow specialization of military equipment, as it was during the Cold War. For example, in the United States, a close analogue of the Su-24 front-line bomber F-111 was decommissioned. Its functions on the battlefield are performed by F-16 lightweight fighter-bombers.

Accordingly, the question arises with Mig-31. The catastrophe near Karaganda identified the problem. Mig-31 is certainly an outstanding, but too highly specialized aircraft. For him, the Air Force of Kazakhstan simply does not have the corresponding tasks. It was created to combat cruise missiles, low-flying satellites. In Russia, aircraft are given great importance and are being upgraded to the level of Mig-31BM. This year, the question of the transfer of the aircraft from the Air Force to the military space forces was discussed. Including Mig-31BM should shoot down targets entering the atmosphere at hypersonic speed.

But if this aircraft is important for Russia and it is ready to spend money on its costly modernization, then for Kazakhstan the question is not so simple. Firstly, the modernization of the old aircraft itself raises doubts about its feasibility. Secondly, there is clearly no sense for Kazakhstan to prepare for any military conflict using space. Rather, he needs light front-line fighter-bombers.

The first part of the problem is very relevant. If Su-24 (they, according to unofficial data, around 35) no longer fly, the use of Mig-31 (approximately 30) is questionable, then the Air Force remains some amount of Su-27 (around 30) and Mig-29 (approximately the same ). Part of the Su-27 repaired, others not, with the Mig-29 a similar situation. Taking into account the fact that in Russia there is a massive replacement of old cars with new ones, the situation for us does not look very promising. Especially since in 2009, an incident occurred in Russia with Mig-29. After the Mig-29 accident in Transbaikalia, all 200 aircraft in service with the Russian Air Force were tested. 90 of them were considered unfit for flying due to corrosion of the airframe materials.

It is characteristic that Su-27 is being repaired, but there is no such information about Mig-29. In any case, the concept of endless repair of old Soviet aircraft is not very promising. With intensive use, the remaining life of the aircraft will melt like smoke. A natural question arises: what to do in such a situation? Probably, first of all it is necessary to decide why Kazakhstan needs combat aircraft?

If we proceed from the fact that Kazakhstan is a relatively small country with a large territory, then it is logical to assume that the country will need, firstly, military transport aircraft for the transfer of troops over long distances; secondly, transport and assault helicopters, especially they are needed in the south, where problems are likely to occur; thirdly, a certain number of modern fighter-bombers. Their number depends on the ambitions of the state.

For example, small Qatar bought the 1990 French Mirage-10 in 2000-e, and now they have announced a tender to buy 30 new fighters. India held a tender for the supply of 126 fighters worth 10 billion. Not very rich Bulgaria announced a tender for the purchase of used fighters, etc.

Actually, tenders for the supply of announced almost all countries, so it would be logical to determine the duration of the remaining operation of the old Soviet cars. Then figure out how many planes we need. Then negotiate with Russia about the possibility of buying from her party a lot of cars. But now the Russian industry is busy fulfilling a large state order. Although at prices the new Russian aircraft are more attractive than Western cars. But you can immediately announce an international tender. It will also attract Russian manufacturers. And there already choose based on the issue price.

For example, Kazakhstan needs 48 new fighter-bombers (maybe less, maybe more), 8 – 12 transport aircraft, as well as military air bases in different parts of the country - in the east, west, and south. The main base at the same time is located in the center - the same Karaganda, where Mig-31 now stand.

Formalization of the question is in principle better than closed agreements. You can understand what and how much we buy, and most importantly - why.

BMPT "Terminator". Photo source: alternathistory.org.ua For example, it is not clear why Kazakhstan bought three BMPT Terminator cars and three Buratino TOS cars from Russia. "Terminator" is a support combat vehicle tanksand “Pinocchio” - a flamethrower designed to break through the fortifications. In the first case, the Terminator has not yet been adopted by Russia. The weak point of this complex is the lack of protection for the entire range of weapons that are mounted on the basis of the T-72 tank. Anti-tank missiles, grenade launchers, automatic guns (2 caliber 30 mm), machine guns openly stand on the case. All this is intended for combat in urban environments. However, a simple hit of a grenade from a hand grenade launcher, or firing from a heavy machine gun, or a high-explosive mine explosion will render all Terminator armament unusable. With "Pinocchio" also not everything is clear. Why, in fact, the Kazakh army several such machines. It is unlikely that she will ever break through the layered defense.

In recent years, the Ministry of Defense has funds for the purchase of equipment. In Soviet times, there was such a thing as a small-time mother. The purchase of "Terminator" and "Buratino" is an obvious petty mother. Undoubtedly, it is better to purchase equipment in large batches and thus close the existing gaps. That is, to solve point problems of the army in order of priority. For example, we need army trucks - one problem, we need our own production of ammunition - another problem, we need modern tanks, and maybe we don’t need them.

The question of choosing a new technique is the same. For example, helicopters are needed - we will buy Mi-17 from Russia. But if new fighters are needed, and Russia does not have free production capacity, maybe then buy them from someone else?

In November, Kazakhstan’s Defense Minister Adilbek Dzhaksybekov visited the United States. During the visit, they talked about the possible purchases of weapons, including even Predator drones with strike weapons. The ministry knows better what the army needs. But buying a weapon is also a policy, even if it will never be applied. Moreover, the continuation of multi-vector state policy.
Author:
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93 comments
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  1. jjj
    jjj 28 January 2014 07: 27
    -3
    For some reason, after reading, the conclusion suggests itself that Russian Kazakhs should defend by definition. And, as we see, the situation there in the armed forces is not the most rosy. And for several years we were offered to study reforms in Kazakhstan.
    1. Civil
      Civil 28 January 2014 07: 43
      +2
      Kazakhstan, unlike any "fraternal" peoples, is Russia's strategic ally. It is necessary to help by all means to strengthen the army of the Republic of Kazakhstan, to create joint bases, to strengthen the southern border of the Republic of Kazakhstan. Integrate army systems.
    2. invisibility
      invisibility 28 January 2014 07: 45
      -1
      Aha
      Secondly, in the world no one else is preparing for war along the lines of the Second World War. So massive armies are simply not needed
      But even to fulfill its direct functions, a professional army is still more suited to the conditions of Kazakhstan. It is clear that our country is not going to fight with anyone, we have a purely defensive military doctrine and good relations with all our neighbors. Moreover, the independence of Kazakhstan was guaranteed by the great powers at the very moment when we were abandoning nuclear weapons.
      Excuse me, is this an analytical article on a website with a military focus? Or did the author write an article from a women's magazine?
    3. The comment was deleted.
      1. Roman Skomorokhov
        Roman Skomorokhov 28 January 2014 11: 34
        +1
        Quote: jjj
        For some reason, after reading, the conclusion suggests itself that Russian Kazakhs should defend by definition.


        Why not? It would make sense to profit.
        Quote: Civil
        Kazakhstan, unlike any "fraternal" peoples, is Russia's strategic ally.


        As if for a start: it seems like there is no one to defend against. And if it is necessary ... well, throughout the post-Soviet history, the Republic of Kazakhstan did not have political dances in the style, and we will go to Europe, and we will rest there. "Well, or not to Europe. There were misunderstandings, there were frictions. Where can we go without them? In general, no matter what they say there, but Kazakhstan is demonstrating a firm policy towards Russia. Plus the uranium mines and Baikonur ... you might even think a little deeper. There is a CSTO agreement, in general everything is spelled out there.

        This does not mean that you need to disperse your own army and sell aircraft for deshman. This is the author of that ... lack of understanding.
        1. Kasym
          Kasym 28 January 2014 15: 42
          +7
          Good day to all, dear! In addition to the statement of the deputy. min , everything else is the analysis of this journalist. Because :
          1. According to the NAS, the majority of the population will live in cities. A decision was made to develop the cities of Chimkent and Aktobe (Aktyubinsk) to the level of a metropolis with a population of 1 mil. person .
          2. The author does not know that the MiG-31 was taken taking into account the work of the air defense of the Republic of Kazakhstan (due to its low capabilities). And he is still its important component.
          3. The author writes about the weakness of our army, but nothing about the modernization of its equipment. He writes that the planes are old. Does this comrade know that in some countries they still use the MiG-21. The main thing is that the equipment is monitored and all routine maintenance is done.
          4. Foreign aircraft, in my opinion, will fly a pretty penny. Staff training, service, etc. . What about the CSTO? Some frequencies will become such a stumbling block that all this app. no one will need equipment here for nothing.
          5. Terminators and Pinocchio took in such a quantity to experience in our conditions. Terminators are approved and there will be a large purchase for the sun.
          6. Well, the author forgot to look at the prices. MiG-35 (if completed) is estimated to be 45 mil. dol .., and the single-engine Grippen 48 mil. . At least so wrote one of the members of the forum on the site. hi
          1. Kasym
            Kasym 28 January 2014 15: 51
            +4
            Such a paint coating protects well from metal corrosion. hi
            1. marshes
              marshes 28 January 2014 18: 16
              +1
              Quote: Kasym
              This paint coating protects well from metal corrosion.

              This is in principle good, beautiful, but glistening in the sun like snot. Better gray-graphite matte color.
              The varnish will certainly keep the paint from burning out and other atmospheric phenomena and also save fuel, my father's plane was varnished and heavier by two tons but still flew faster than his "brother" who was without varnish.
              1. alone
                alone 28 January 2014 19: 17
                +7
                The Republic of Kazakhstan is a fairly well-established state with a fairly good economy. The Kazakh military is well aware of the needs of the Kazakh Armed Forces for certain weapons.
                And the country is quite peaceful and non-conflict. So instead of a large draft army, you can create a mobile professional army. Surely, the creation of reserve forces is also envisaged.
                I wish good luck to the brothers from Kazakhstan in creating a professional army and in purchasing new types of military equipment. hi
              2. Kasym
                Kasym 28 January 2014 20: 23
                +3
                Marshes, as always thanks for the information. But most importantly, that is neat and tidy. And not a rusting skeleton - I think so. The WAF noted that such coverage is used by large airlines and even then not all. Consequently, I concluded that it was expensive; and if expensive means high-quality and reliable.
                Oh well, okay, the main thing is that the Master technique is there and it is well-groomed. And the article is generally a complete collapse. This "old man" MiG-31 will thrust any Chinese into ... a rocket at the most I can not. In my opinion, let Russia get a handle on repairing its cars. And then we are massively. Okay, you know the general better. hi
                1. marshes
                  marshes 28 January 2014 20: 32
                  +2
                  Quote: Kasym
                  "old man" MiG-31 will give any Chinese

                  Well, the MIG-31 complex is good, it does not require AWACS aircraft, although in the future Park 31 will have to become obsolete.
                  What 31 survived and other types of combat aircraft is thanks to Altynbaev.
                  Su-24, even on mothballing, has not yet been used, although there is potential for "extreme" flights, they will be able to do something.
  2. Humpty
    Humpty 28 January 2014 07: 37
    +1
    What a sweet dependent approach it turns out, protection of the territory is (according to the author) not the concern of the army of Kazakhstan, let other countries do it. It turns out that the army, according to the author, needs Kazakhstan for cheap show-offs and internal intrigues. If the call is canceled, then this seems to be true.
    1. Roman Skomorokhov
      Roman Skomorokhov 28 January 2014 11: 38
      +2
      Cancellation of the call is half the churek. The second is the creation of a professional army. And then something meaningful turns out.
      It seems to me that the author either does not catch up in essence, or one of those with whom we do not drink. For to leave the defense of its territory (which, incidentally, China has repeatedly infested) to another, albeit a friendly country with a large army, is drawn to betrayal.
      No, hypothetically we pull, there would be a desire. But it looks more than strange.
      1. Humpty
        Humpty 28 January 2014 14: 04
        0
        Quote: Banshee

        "No, hypothetically, we will pull, there would be a desire. But it looks more than strange."


        For some reason, history teaches us little, hypothetically, as Russians. We are naive because we often judge someone by ourselves. If an Asian says "once", it means anything. Maybe two, or maybe you keep it in mind. Our southern regions have their own history, bright and interesting, and unfortunately it did not teach us to understand correctly who we are dealing with.
        1. Roman Skomorokhov
          Roman Skomorokhov 28 January 2014 14: 27
          +2
          East is a delicate matter...))
          However, I repeat, but personally I consider the Kazakh people to be the brotherly people of the Russian people. And I’m sure (for I don’t know the facts confirming the opposite) that in the future everything will be fine with us. At least because Kazakhstan is a self-sufficient state, and its inhabitants do not consider Russia as a construction site (unlike some neighbors), and we do not consider Kazakhstan as a raw materials appendage.
    2. Ascetic
      Ascetic 28 January 2014 21: 33
      +5
      Quote: Humpty
      protection of the territory is (according to the author) not the concern of the army of Kazakhstan, let other countries do it


      The huge territory and relatively small population simply dictate to Kazakhstan to have a modern high-tech army capable of responding to the entire spectrum of threats from terrorist inclinations to repelling military forces of any enemy. The ideal option is a single missile defense / air defense system with Russia and under the cover of this "umbrella", coupled with nuclear (not only strategic nuclear forces but tactical nuclear weapons for Peking ducks smile ) to create and equip the army on the principle of taking the most suitable and modern, as Azerbaijan does for example. The CSTO is not NATO there are no uniform standards, and they are not needed, except I will repeat air defense / missile defense.
  3. demotivator
    demotivator 28 January 2014 07: 39
    +1
    it is not clear why Kazakhstan bought three BMPT Terminator cars and three Buratino TOS cars from Russia.

    What's not clear? In Kazakhstan, as well as in our country, they buy not what is needed for the army and the navy, but what brings profits or kickbacks to businessmen in uniform. Here and now. Wait, we'll sell you Mistrals too.
  4. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 28 January 2014 07: 47
    +8
    A competently written article with arguments for the pros and cons of the draft contract system. But personally, I am for the draft system. At least in order to tear the calf from her mother’s skirt. Yes, and in society, the idea that, in which case anyone can take up arms to protect the Fatherland, makes society more stable. And who said that in conflicts like Afghanistan or Chechnya, conscripts showed themselves worse than professionals?
    For small states such as Luxembourg or Slovenia, the contract system is more optimal. But for large countries it is better to keep the draft. I served urgently, and served on the contract. Therefore, I know both firsthand. And again I repeat (I wrote it somewhere already) - for highly specialized military branches with a complex training system it is better to serve contract soldiers. And in all other cases, urgent service is optimal. And it will make a person out of gut, and the mobile reserve will not hurt. The country is big.
    This is my personal opinion. hi
    1. ekzorsist
      ekzorsist 28 January 2014 20: 11
      -2
      Absolutely agree!!!
      And one more thing - but where are the contractors ready to take it?
      Probably clone by the method of the Immaculate Conception, immediately in camouflage and a rifle ... bully
      They also need to be prepared for more than one year ... unless it is a policisaurus.
  5. invisibility
    invisibility 28 January 2014 07: 47
    0

    A very revealing situation occurred in the 1940 year. Then, after the start of World War II in 1939, the USSR began to implement agreements reached with Germany on the division of zones of influence in Eastern Europe. As a result of Moscow’s pressure, the Baltic countries capitulated because the scale of the armed forces of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia was too incomparable. At the same time, the Finns, who were in a similar situation, began to resist. This initially seemed a hopeless struggle, but the Finnish commander Mannerheim said that it was necessary to fight for the sake of future generations.

    This is logical, because whoever resists, in the end, and agree who just surrenders, he has no chance to independently determine his fate. So the Latvians and Estonians ended up in the SS legions. Now they can say as much as they like that they were called up by the Germans and fought against the Soviet empire, but service in the SS left a “black mark” on their reputation. While the Finns fought twice with the Soviet Union, but after the war, despite the lost territories, they had no problems in relations with the USSR, and then with Russia. Latvians and Estonians have not very good relations with Russia


    Peerless conclusion !!! I don’t even know how to comment on this ...
  6. saag
    saag 28 January 2014 08: 08
    0
    Quote: Civil
    Kazakhstan, unlike any "fraternal" peoples, is Russia's strategic ally.

    Are you familiar with the Kazakh concept of "multi-vector"?
    1. ekzorsist
      ekzorsist 28 January 2014 20: 16
      -4
      Of course!
      This means as a woman of multi-vector behavior ... today she gave it, and tomorrow it ..., and then - and who else wants ???
  7. valokordin
    valokordin 28 January 2014 08: 17
    +2
    Judging by the article, I can say these statements of the Colonel General, it can be regarded as a touchstone, for the decision of Kazakhstan to purchase weapons NADO, or as extortion in relation to Russia =.
    1. Semurg
      Semurg 28 January 2014 11: 10
      +2
      Quote: valokordin
      Judging by the article, I can say these statements of the Colonel General, it can be regarded as a touchstone, for the decision of Kazakhstan to purchase weapons NADO, or as extortion in relation to Russia =.

      The general said one thing, that by 2016 there will be a pro army and that’s all, and the rest is author B Abdulin wrote (he does not know an expert or journalist). And you either did not understand or did not read carefully? Well, the conclusions of the article are generally tin. Soon permission will be issued to purchase weapons to Kazakhstan laughing
      1. Roman Skomorokhov
        Roman Skomorokhov 28 January 2014 11: 42
        +2
        And who is this B. Abdullin?
        Did he come to the topic or just pee for the grudge of the day?

        In the article, yes, there is such a thing, like Russia is poorly repairing airplanes, we will go around the market, we’ll get together, we’ll find a better one. Let b / y.

        Passed stage, however.
        1. marshes
          marshes 28 January 2014 11: 58
          +4
          Quote: Banshee
          And who is this B. Abdullin?

          We ourselves wonder who he is. An article on the website of the Institute for Asian Studies, the Institute itself is related to the "Center of Asia" magazine, they consider themselves intellectuals, although the circulation is 3000 copies.
          On my own, I’ll add that people with higher education in the editorial board means they graduated from the military department, then they have a military obligation. It’s not bad if they passed military training in the near future, since the editorial office is in Almaty, then the nearest Ili training ground. smile
          1. Roman Skomorokhov
            Roman Skomorokhov 28 January 2014 14: 28
            +3
            Stunned ... well, if you don’t know ...
            The circulation says a lot.
            1. Ascetic
              Ascetic 28 January 2014 22: 40
              +2
              Quote: Banshee
              Stunned ... well, if you don’t know ...


          2. marshes
            marshes 28 January 2014 19: 09
            +2
            Quote: marshes
            It’s not bad if they passed military training in the near future,

            If they are graduates of KAZGU now, KAZGNU named after Al Farabi, then they are gunners, the department seemed to be preparing them. smile
          3. Ascetic
            Ascetic 28 January 2014 21: 36
            +3
            Quote: marshes
            We are surprised at who we are.

            Any Boruch Abdelman like our ikspert Felgenhauer smilePersonally, I won’t be surprised
  8. Stinger
    Stinger 28 January 2014 08: 31
    -2
    The logic is good. But then cavalry is best suited. You don’t need to teach anyone, and you can jump anywhere you want. In accordance with multi-vector. Where the vector looks, we’ll jump there.
    1. ekzorsist
      ekzorsist 28 January 2014 20: 21
      -4
      Cavalry ???
      Hmm, and who will protect the horses from these equestrians ??? Russian army ?
      For a couple of months I’ve burned all the horses ... sorry, they’re eating ... meat is tense in Kazakhstan !!!
      1. Andrey KZ
        Andrey KZ 28 January 2014 21: 29
        +5
        For a couple of months all the horses burned ... sorry they eat
        I would not refuse "kazy" (horse meat sausage) either.
        with meat, that is tense in Kazakhstan !!!
        Yes, what are you, and I, passing the meat rows in the market, didn’t notice this.
        1. ekzorsist
          ekzorsist 29 January 2014 20: 41
          -2
          Have you accidentally looked at prices?
          And if you looked, then tell me - Why is it that almost 90 percent of Kazakhstan’s meat and dairy products are from imported raw materials (China, Russia, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, etc.) ...
          You declare your own - DARKNESS !!! - Expensive own production, unprofitable and flawed. And we don’t want to admit it.
  9. Nitarius
    Nitarius 28 January 2014 09: 31
    +3
    Army NEEDS Kazakhstan!
    And hired and conscripts! There is no general concept of Mercenaries - an adversary will pay more and they will go to him!
    Well this is the same STUPIDITY .. THE ARMY IS BUILDING TO PROTECT THE COUNTRY and its loved ones (father, mother, son, daughter, wife, etc.)
    And conscripts are needed, the younger generation in our difficult time should be able to own a WEAPON, etc.
  10. raf
    raf 28 January 2014 10: 01
    +2
    Moreover, the continuation of a multi-vector state policy.
    Ukraine also pursued a multi-vector policy, and what is the result? At the turning points of history, you cannot be "both ours and yours" you still have to choose!
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 28 January 2014 16: 20
      +5
      Multi-vector, independence, democracy, etc. - this is the boltology of the authorities. But in fact there. Union, Presidential Republic led by NAS, one-party (Nur Otan) parliament.
      So do not worry, dear RAF, the Maidan will not crawl here. NAS on the example of Zhanaozen showed that there will be no ceremony.
      The choice has long been made, back in 1994 - they were waiting for you. If everything is done correctly, then others will catch up. Or maybe newcomers will appear. hi
      1. ekzorsist
        ekzorsist 28 January 2014 20: 34
        -2
        Kasym! I would like it, but "WOULD" interferes ...
        Look around for yourself - there is no elementary unity in society ... and, in other matters, there is no "society" as such either. Around only money-grubbing, embezzlement, bribery. I hope I don't need to talk about the education of young people in the current realities ???
        Education, the nomenclature of bureaucratic appointments and both are simply marveling - it was necessary to collapse from which oak tree in order to deliver such an instance with something or someone ... or soak such a teaching methodology.
        In reality, a complete and absolute integration of the Union republics with a single government ... etc ... is needed.
        But ... but what am I talking about ?! Now they will spit and peck - "... statehood !!! ... national security !!! ..."
  11. marshes
    marshes 28 January 2014 11: 02
    +3
    Honestly, stupid article.
    1. Semurg
      Semurg 28 January 2014 11: 13
      +4
      Quote: marshes
      Honestly, stupid article.

      but komenty sensible from the council to have cavalry before the purchase of the Mistrals.
      1. marshes
        marshes 28 January 2014 11: 28
        +2
        Quote: Semurg
        but komenty sensible from the council to have cavalry before the purchase of the Mistrals.

        According to the article, prof army and no mob. reserve, although the author probably does not know about paid courses, still without a military commander in the state. structures do not enter. I would still recall the law on mobilization, no one has repealed it.
        1. Semurg
          Semurg 28 January 2014 11: 56
          +3
          I think the motorized infantry should remain drafted under the profession of sergeants and the service is 6 months with the subsequent partisans once every 3 years. If you do not engage in garbage such as PCB and field tactics, shooting and weapons, half a year is enough. And to drive as many willing young people through it as possible (well, and the benefits to link with the service). specialists must be pros if the technology dies, specialists die with it most often, but no one will get new equipment in a modern war, and there’s only one team of specialists, then there’s only the Afghan method with exhausting the enemy with partisans, this is where the second or third composition of motorized rifles come in handy . Well, IMHO, the generals have a different vision.
          1. marshes
            marshes 28 January 2014 12: 06
            +3
            Quote: Semurg
            Well, IMHO generals have a different vision

            They want to apply the new concept of military operations, Light and heavy maneuverable brigades, like the cavalry of Genghis Khan.
            By the way, our army is the most mobile (provided in terms of transport) in the CIS and the flight time of pilots.
            1. Kasym
              Kasym 28 January 2014 16: 50
              +4
              Greetings ! That's who should be put at the head of the Ministry of Defense of the Republic of Kazakhstan! Guys, well, maybe you write an explanatory article? I'm serious . To read this analyzer so we already do not need an army. belay ... Because we are few. We also had one of the smallest "districts" in the city. But the older boys shaved somewhere a bag, paws, shingers and gloves. The horizontal bar was already hanging. And it started rolling. Every day there is a bag with us (the excuse from the cops is still the same, and to practice - everyone has worked out this or that blow) and every Sunday sparings regardless of weight, height and age. Football like good morning (one of the best courtyard teams in the city). A mountain river is nearby. I remember the four of us put 11 people on skis. The last devils were - we were with the girls, and they decided to hang on for 2 kopecks - they got it in full. And the bag is still with one of the "boys" at home.
              So if it shouldn’t mean us very much, we cannot fight. Let this expert write on other topics. hi
              1. marshes
                marshes 28 January 2014 17: 52
                +2
                Quote: Kasym
                That's who should be put at the head of the Ministry of Defense of the Republic of Kazakhstan!

                Greetings, I don’t get into the chapters of the Moscow Region, I speak for myself, but I see the line.
                Since the territory is large, the number of people is small, the tactics will be like those of our ancestors and how the Panfilov division acted during the defense of Moscow. People there, MoD, not stupid, some graduated from the Academy of the General Staff of the Russian Federation, some who even with honors are inscribed in the history of the academy.
                True, they took something from the NATO troops, just as our students studied at their Universities.
                And so, for fun, see "Generati Kill" http://www.online-life.ru/2599-pokolenie-ubiyc-2008.htmlon

                It will become clear why we need hummers and cobras, as well as armored vehicles on a wheeled track - this is how to say "Light" brigades.
                1. Kasym
                  Kasym 28 January 2014 20: 27
                  +3
                  I believe ! As you wish ! soldier
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      2. alone
        alone 28 January 2014 21: 54
        +3
        Quote: Semurg
        but komenty sensible from the council to have cavalry before the purchase of the Mistrals.

        laughing it is good that the aircraft carriers were not advised)))
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      1. Roman Skomorokhov
        Roman Skomorokhov 28 January 2014 11: 45
        +1
        Well, in fairness, I note that the Mistals were not offered to buy.

        And the article is yes ... some kind of swamp.
        1. marshes
          marshes 28 January 2014 12: 01
          +1
          Quote: Banshee
          And the article is yes ... some kind of swamp.

          The magazine is about the presidential, the appearance of democracy.
  12. velikoros-xnumx
    velikoros-xnumx 28 January 2014 16: 52
    +2
    On these aircraft, the maximum and prohibitive wear of the airframe and engine

    It is doubtful - the Mig-31 glider was created with widespread use of titanium and therefore has a significant resource. Engines - about 500 pcs. new on conservation, disappears. The causes of the inflow are unlikely to be the wear of the airframe and engines.
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 28 January 2014 17: 53
      +4
      Michael, there is such an amateur wrote that request !
    2. marshes
      marshes 28 January 2014 18: 03
      +3
      Quote: velikoros-xnumx
      The causes of the inflow are unlikely to be the wear of the airframe and engines.

      There, it is presumably that they did not lock the nut in the steering gear.
  13. Ram chandra
    Ram chandra 28 January 2014 18: 36
    +7
    The article shows the real problems of the Armed Forces of Kazakhstan. Technique is aging - this is a fact.
    But the transition to contract service is really a very difficult issue.
    It seems that urgent service gives the country strong men who are confident in life, because the army is its excellent school.
    And it seems that those countries with contracted services dominate the world (only it is not necessary to say that the USA does not dominate). Perhaps it is more beneficial for society when people grow into specialists of a narrow profile. The army coarsens man, makes effective universal highly primitive men. But is not this the last century? Of course - 10 strong men, mentally balanced - this is good. But now, in our age - power is nothing. The same sloppy programmer or chemist is more important for the country of these 10 men who can lay bricks and wave their fists. But this is a very difficult question, whether such people need to join the army.
    I confess I don’t know the answer to it. It is necessary to conduct comprehensive research, taking into account the economic, sociological and many other aspects of human society.
    1. Zymran
      Zymran 28 January 2014 20: 08
      +4
      Quote: Ram Chandra
      The army coarsens man, makes effective universal highly primitive men. But is not this the last century? Of course - 10 strong men, mentally balanced - this is good. But now, in our age - power is nothing. The same sloppy programmer or chemist is more important for the country of these 10 men who can lay bricks and wave their fists. But this is a very difficult question whether such people need to join the army.


      I think not everyone should go to serve, at least in such an army as it is now. Someone does not fit the psychotype, if the army tempers someone, then just neurotic will make something else. I think we need to consider this issue, conduct psychological testing and all that.
      1. marshes
        marshes 28 January 2014 20: 15
        +1
        Quote: Zymran
        conduct psychological testing

        Psychological testing is carried out as early as 1996, they are responsible for the WWRP, they are political for the old one. But there is no proper screening, because it takes place when the conscript is already in the unit, in quarantine. Then, the platoon and company are tormented, although they conduct a weekly survey in my time was like this now I don’t know.
        1. Zymran
          Zymran 28 January 2014 20: 20
          +3
          Yes, the competence of our psychologists, I will tell you ...
          1. marshes
            marshes 28 January 2014 20: 36
            +2
            Quote: Zymran
            Yes, the competence of our psychologists, I will tell you ...

            Salaries are small, by the way, my wife is a psychologist by education, but at the moment she is a business woman. smile
            So now psychologists in the army of the commander’s platoon or company, there wouldn’t be 200 lis. That’s all.
            1. Zymran
              Zymran 28 January 2014 20: 40
              +3
              Quote: marshes
              Salaries are small, by the way, my wife is a psychologist by education, but at the moment she is a business woman. smile


              Yeah, I’m also a doctor, but at the moment I’m hiring a farm. business. sad
              1. marshes
                marshes 28 January 2014 20: 47
                +2
                Quote: Zymran
                Yeah, I’m also a doctor, but at the moment I’m hiring a farm. business

                The wife says, at the expense of death row, a psychiatrist doctor can use neuro-linguistic programming to not only remove the addiction to alcohol and tobacco, but to make a walking bomb, as a rule these are people suffering from this addiction.
                1. Zymran
                  Zymran 28 January 2014 20: 50
                  +2
                  Mmmm, generally traditionally neuro-linguistic programming is considered a pseudoscience, but who knows how it really is. Although in his youth he used some techniques on girls, sometimes with a very good result. laughing
                  In any case, the training of suicide bombers is not limited to NLP techniques.
                2. Semurg
                  Semurg 28 January 2014 21: 38
                  +3
                  Gypsies from youth, so they started talking to me that he gave 3 rubles and said thanks again laughing the same NLP is peculiar.
                  1. marshes
                    marshes 28 January 2014 21: 46
                    +3
                    Quote: Semurg
                    Gypsies since their youth, they started talking to me that he gave 3 rubles and thanks for that he said the same kind of NLP.

                    Here is our fellow countryman Lukyanenko heard enough of the ravings of psychos in the psychiatric clinic at the uncle in Taraz, he writes novels, he became a big man. laughing
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  14. Zymran
    Zymran 28 January 2014 19: 17
    +2
    In November, Kazakhstan’s Defense Minister Adilbek Dzhaksybekov visited the United States. During the visit, they talked about the possible purchases of weapons, including even Predator drones with strike weapons. The ministry knows better what the army needs. But buying a weapon is also a policy, even if it will never be applied. Moreover, the continuation of multi-vector state policy.


    It is high time to buy high-tech Western weapons, and if you don’t switch, then at least take NATO standards into account when preparing and educating soldiers.
    1. marshes
      marshes 28 January 2014 19: 24
      +1
      Quote: Zymran
      In November, Kazakh Defense Minister Adilbek Dzhaksybekov paid a visit to the United States. During the visit, they discussed possible arms purchases, including even Predator drones with shock weapons.

      And recently I was in Israel.http: //korganys.kz/index.php/ru/component/k2/item/353-lang-ru-ministr-ob
      orony-kazakhstana-adilbek-dzhaksybekov-s-ofitsialnym-vizitom-v-izraile-lang-lang
      -kz-izrail-armi smile
    2. marshes
      marshes 28 January 2014 19: 38
      +2
      Quote: Zymran
      at least consider NATO standards when training and educating soldiers.

      What else did the Jews offer-joint exercises on the territory of Kazakhstan, and there are still many interesting weapons and even joint production, although they remember the fate of Sheikman.
      1. Zymran
        Zymran 28 January 2014 19: 48
        +3
        Here, the Jews can learn from the experience of training troops, but they still laughing draft army and training is built on this basis.
        1. marshes
          marshes 28 January 2014 19: 55
          +3
          Quote: Zymran
          but they still have a draft army and training based on this basis.

          And at the Military Medical Commission you won’t. laughing In principle, well done almost 8 lemons contain 300-350 lemons from Arabs. There are a lot of things to learn.
      2. Semurg
        Semurg 28 January 2014 21: 32
        +2
        I think Israel has something to sell to Kazakhstan from armaments and to modernize our equipment, but the fate of Sheikman and the Israelis and our generals is a lesson for the future that honest cooperation is better than left movements.
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  15. Zymran
    Zymran 28 January 2014 20: 01
    +4
    That's it. All the same, Jews must be able to defend their homeland as much as Jews. This is also considering that the state was built from scratch. Military traditions were also adopted from different countries, but then they learned how to fight in such a short time.
    1. Semurg
      Semurg 28 January 2014 21: 26
      +2
      they had nowhere to retreat behind them was Tel Aviv. but seriously, they defended their chance of statehood after many centuries of persecution and beating throughout Europe and Asia. Whether this will work out with us if suddenly someone seriously decides to fight with us. There is a country like Switzerland, which is purely neutral and in a friendly environment, but they keep the gunpowder dry and only do not trust the pros, but have a call (there are only specialists in the pros and I like this call for infantry). And weapons are kept at home if partisans are at arms laughing .
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      3. marshes
        marshes 28 January 2014 21: 37
        0
        Quote: Semurg
        and they have a call (there are pros only specialists, and I like this infantry call). And weapons are kept at home if partisans are at arms

        What do you want to reduce the population in Kazakhstan.
        We do not yet have a culture of possession of firearms. Sam took a traumatic gun from a teenager and his father was sleeping peacefully.
        Sagat you not long ago shot a teenager in Shymkent from a sawn-off shotgun, imagine what will happen if a rifled weapon is in his hands, a policeman will "nervously" approach you. And you won't divorce KUN, but there will be blood feud.
        1. Semurg
          Semurg 28 January 2014 21: 58
          +2
          Well, young people are indulging in stabbing and that now prohibit knives. and cars are generally weapons of mass destruction. For example, he talked with an Arab from Yemen, he says there is a Kalash in every family, and they didn’t seem to have killed each other. And by the way, they also pay kun or if the bloodlords refuse. And in Switzerland, important issues are resolved through a referendum, and once it was with us. The mentality is clearly different, but they are the same people as we are, and if they succeeded why we do not.
          1. marshes
            marshes 28 January 2014 22: 10
            +1
            Quote: Semurg
            well, young people indulge in stabbing and that now prohibit knives

            Yes, some models that have fixed blades can be equated with knives. Remember at one time, Chinese revolvers appeared capsule. After reworking, they could shoot small things.
            Quote: Semurg
            For example, he talked with an Arab from Yemen, he says there is a Kalash in every family, and they didn’t seem to have killed each other. And by the way, they also pay kun or if the bloodlords refuse.

            They went on with whom to compare, they still have a civil war there.
            if you want to have weapons, take guards courses where they issue a license, for storage or hunters sign up, at the very twin-barrel 12-caliber 1956 release, grandfather is now my father, although I will hand it over on the left barrel with a muzzle extension, I’ll take a 12-gauge pump or vertical.
            1. Semurg
              Semurg 28 January 2014 22: 30
              +5
              Switzerland is too cultured country, Yemen is too wild, Kazakhstan is in the middle. Kalash can be kept at home by a wild Arab whose Kazakh has grown, or a well-brought Swiss who has not grown to Kazakh. In general, Switzerland cited as an example to follow and what we should strive for, but I don’t propose to start distributing military weapons tomorrow. The Swiss authorities and the people trust each other and therefore are not afraid of weapons from their citizens. a hunting weapon is from another song.
              1. marshes
                marshes 28 January 2014 22: 41
                +1
                Quote: Semurg
                . In general, Switzerland cited as an example to follow and what we should strive for, but I do not propose tomorrow to begin distributing military weapons. Swiss authorities and people trust each other and therefore are not afraid of weapons from their citizens. a hunting weapon is from another song.

                We can and will have it, but we would not like it only after an armed conflict with neighbors, "the brains will think differently."
                1. Semurg
                  Semurg 28 January 2014 22: 52
                  +2
                  Think about it, the enemy has headquarters analysts who think and think. So there is an army of 50-60tys to knock it out for two weeks of fighting, the rest of the population is either rotted or driven out. Or there is an army and there is a population with military weapons on their hands to spread rot or to drive out losses and expenses. And in which case it is easier to occupy a country where a small pro army, or where you have to deal with almost every crank.
                  1. marshes
                    marshes 28 January 2014 23: 01
                    0
                    Quote: Semurg
                    Think about it, the enemy has headquarters analysts who think and think. So there is an army of 50-60tys to knock it out for two weeks of fighting, the rest of the population is either rotted or driven out. Or there is an army and there is a population with military weapons on their hands to spread rot or to drive out losses and expenses. And in which case it is easier to occupy a country where a small pro army, or where you have to deal with almost every crank.

                    It will be easier with us, we will agree or we will hire thugs.
                    I remember that I was in some warehouses and there I saw the PKK of 53-56, all under 7.62.In principle, we are provided with small arms even if we can transport the Dzungarian Alatau, so that some people entertain someone.
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                    2. Semurg
                      Semurg 28 January 2014 23: 27
                      +3
                      the fact that I still know a lot of things in the warehouses from the union, but the weapons in the warehouses are trophies of the aggressor’s quick victory against the small army pros (like in Georgia), and the weapons in the hands of the population are a guaranteed headache for any hypothetical aggressor. This of course is all ideal. And to be honest, I think the threat is not only from the east and south.
                      1. marshes
                        marshes 28 January 2014 23: 36
                        +1
                        Quote: Semurg
                        and the weapon in the hands of the population is a guaranteed headache for any hypothetical aggressor

                        And for the current government.
                      2. Semurg
                        Semurg 28 January 2014 23: 40
                        +1
                        yes this is the very first reason and 5 more reasons as Nikolaev sang laughing
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            2. ekzorsist
              ekzorsist 29 January 2014 21: 04
              -4
              Well, they said the article is stupid!
              But no! ... Regarding civilian weapons and a normal self-defense law, it has long been necessary to decide. The population has the right to have the opportunity to protect their dignity, health and life. On the local policyaurs, which from the renaming only became even worse than they were, and after a dozen attestations and various reports, even more "outsiders" joined their ranks, hope you understand not 100 percent or even 60 percent ... but how lucky. Although we must pay tribute to them as they can - they try, BUT ... by efforts alone ...
              In many countries, the civilian population has the right to choose whether to have rifled short-barreled or long-barreled weapons for self-defense or not.
              And those who consider it necessary to have it - have on completely legal grounds and apply it if necessary. For some reason, for some reason, some kind of left-handed uncle decided for everyone at once - "And you haven't grown up yet! Yes, and you are dull! Debilovaty! Give you the freedom to soar with DShKMs for an advantage through the streets or something else with 150mm howitzers ... inadvertently and not far from sin. In short, everyone is everywhere Mona, but here's to you - LOW! "
              All this controversy is pros and cons - nonsense and the statistics cited for frequent statistics are one-sided. By the way, for information, it’s more difficult to track a traumatic event from a crime scene than a rifled gun, and even more so if this trauma is also a type of revolver ... there isn’t a sleeve here at all ... and sorry bullet is a piece of rubber ...
              And rifled weapons, if we are to be honest with a criminal element and without any permissions, how much you want and what you want, but potential victims don’t have a damn. Well ... ??? The conclusion is for whom power?
              Or so who does the government trust more - the people or the criminals?
              It turns out - criminals are dearer to the authorities.
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        1. marshes
          marshes 28 January 2014 22: 24
          +1
          Quote: Zymran
          By the way, colleagues, I was going to write an article about the uprisings of Muslims in East Turkestan. Is it worth it, will people be interested?

          It’s worth, in principle, Marek and I laid out something about VTR, about Ospan-Batyr and others. It would not be bad to refresh the memory.
          To the pack, if interested, look at the time, I hope to figure it out.
          http://topwar.ru/38799-afganskaya-ugroza-eto-mif.html
          Serg65 KG January 24, 2014 12:28 ↑
          Well, yes, they should not give in, but the first swallows have already flown, just the other day in the mountains of Kyrgyzstan a terrorist group of Uighur "peaceful shepherds" was destroyed
          Could you give more details?
          Were all citizens of the PRC armed with what, on which section of the border did they cross or came from the rear, who discovered them?
          Further ... 25.01.14/15/56 259448:XNUMX http://www.vb.kg/doc/XNUMX_raimberdi_dyyshenbiev:_pogranichniki_spravilis_s_pos
          tavlennoy_zadachey.html
          1. Semurg
            Semurg 28 January 2014 22: 36
            +2
            Marek seems to be from Almaty in real life, if you are familiar, ask that you won’t be re-registered to VO without him, and the Russian urashniks are bored with no opponent laughing there somehow even in the discussion prompted how to get around the ban.
            1. marshes
              marshes 28 January 2014 22: 44
              +1
              Quote: Semurg
              Marek seems to be from Almaty in real life, if you are familiar, ask what you can’t re-register for VO without him already and the Russian artists are bored there is no opponent, they somehow even suggested in the discussion how to get around the ban.

              He is Orenburg, lived in Almaty now in Astana.
              Yes, it seems he’s on the site, he’s only cautious. As he logged in and changed the IP address, he suggested to him that he is an instant messenger right now on the site.
              1. Semurg
                Semurg 28 January 2014 23: 01
                +2
                Marek may be offended by the Russian ban, he seemed to want an alliance with them, and they went to the bathhouse. Gleg stubborn with his ban you won’t laughing Likely adaivets or alimuly. Here I have the wife of a cakear from Alimov, it’s easier to kill her, but she won’t retreat from her laughing so we’re at war with her for 30 years.
                1. marshes
                  marshes 28 January 2014 23: 10
                  0
                  Quote: Semurg
                  Marek may be offended by the Russian ban, he seemed to want an alliance with them, and they went to the bathhouse. You can’t get a glegg stubborn with his ban. Probably an Adaevite or an alimule. My wife, a Tortkar from Alimov, is easier to kill her, but from her own, she will not retreat so much and fight 30 years.

                  Yeah, Marek had that perception about Russian, although he didn’t know the story well, it was nice to read. Eurasianist. Although I am a half-breed, I approach all unions carefully, no matter how I studied in a Soviet secondary school where there were two Kazakhs in the classroom. smile
                  1. Semurg
                    Semurg 28 January 2014 23: 37
                    +1
                    I watched a movie somehow and there was a question why the chipmunk is striped? the chipmunk was friends with the bear and the bear somehow decided to thank the chipmunk by stroking it. After that, the chipmunk is striped and the friendship is over.
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                2. Zymran
                  Zymran 28 January 2014 23: 37
                  +2
                  Clegg from Bayul Alash. I'm Skin, Kasym Jalair, and everyone else who? =)
                  1. marshes
                    marshes 28 January 2014 23: 41
                    +2
                    Quote: Zymran
                    Clegg from Bayul Alash. I'm Skin, Kasym Jalair, and everyone else who? =)

                    I am Dulat.
                  2. Semurg
                    Semurg 28 January 2014 23: 42
                    +1
                    I have a konyrat and an avatar with tamga bosaga. mom dulat. that's just like in a joke about a German who offered to shoot a Kazakh straight away, or you’ll talk to him for five minutes and turn out to be a relative laughing Alibek is sleeping, he’ll probably catch up tomorrow, it’s like he posted an article.
                    1. marshes
                      marshes 28 January 2014 23: 57
                      +2
                      Quote: Semurg
                      mom dulat. that's just like in a joke about a German who offered to shoot the Kazakh immediately, or you’ll talk to him for five minutes and turn out to be a relative

                      We must make an appointment with Timka Kulibaev at Gasprom. laughing Or Kaz Munai Gas. laughing
                    2. Semurg
                      Semurg 29 January 2014 00: 00
                      +2
                      Yes, he’s already rolled up to Rakhat; laughing and didn’t ask much for everything, only a month to steer in the purchasing department laughing ok so far to sleep and left the topic as we get a warning
                    3. marshes
                      marshes 29 January 2014 00: 06
                      +1
                      Quote: Semurg
                      , do not recognize gady for their

                      And my father and I went to the Komsomol wake.
                      Okay, there are already 2 of the best, we have a lot of snow, today I will have fun.
                      Good night!
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              3. Alibekulu
                29 January 2014 22: 35
                +2
                Quote: Zymran
                everyone else who? =)
                Siban - kerey ..
                Quote: Semurg
                I have an avatar with tamga bosaga.
                By the way, where are your "Pan-Turkic motives" - an avatar with a flag, Esenger also had lol
                Quote: Semurg
                And to be honest, I think the threat is not only from the east and south.
                How neat are you .. wink To be honest, the next 10-20 years, it does not threaten.
                The "Tunisian option" may be more problematic, the more the government is betting on the urbanization of Kazakhs, which may be fraught with lumpenization and radicalization of the young active population.
                In the meantime, deal with internal problems, of which to a fig and which are much more important than hypothetical threats from the south, east, north, etc. And many of them can be solved faster with the help of the vehicle ..
                Quote: marshes
                According to the article, prof army and no mob. reserve
                Apparently, due to the absence of external (real) threats, the emphasis is on professional army.
                How to fix it, set it up - they will start working out the formation of mob.reserves .. hi
                1. Semurg
                  Semurg 31 January 2014 09: 52
                  +3
                  The pan-Turkic motive was at the request of the Azerbaijanis for the time of the "summit of the Council of Turkic peoples" and it was originally agreed that this was a temporary action, so everything is tip-top. At the expense of 10-20 years of friendship and love, you bent it, I admit that while we and they have current presidents, maybe (or until we became part of the Russian Federation, our ancestors thought the same that we were sitting well in RI, losing their independence, which, according to They were cut off to pieces by the administration of the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR, and if it had not been for the collapse of the USSR, our grandchildren would have spoken my dad and mom Kazakhs and I am Russian as the Chuvash, Mordvins and a bunch of different descendants of the disappearing peoples of Russia write now) And we look at what Putin will do with Ukraine while he behaves sanely and does not follow the street, but this is still not over and the crisis has not ended there, we have to swing the crisis in the north for one or two times I communicate with fellow students from the North. With regard to urbanization-Tunisization, this issue has been present for more than a dozen years. Before that, he walked spontaneously, now they will pay attention to it, even if it is crooked and askew, but they will decide, and not how I see and hear nothing before (hello Shanyrak1-2-3-and ad infinitum). With the help of the CU, our internal problems cannot be solved, rather, on the contrary, Russian problems will smoothly add to Kazakhstani ones (inflation, slowdown in growth, xenophobia, assimilation, and the confrontation between Russia and the rest of the world) we have just begun to be distinguished and separated from Russia, and thanks to the CU we are again part of Russia ... Well, I already wrote about the army and its staffing above.
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  16. Zymran
    Zymran 28 January 2014 22: 15
    +3
    Quote: marshes
    We do not yet have a culture of possession of firearms. Sam took a traumatic gun from a teenager and his father was sleeping peacefully.


    It seems to me, if you allow the free sale of weapons, it will be like this: at first the people will start shooting each other from the heart, but then they will realize that this is more expensive for themselves and will calm down.
    But in general, I would not allow it. Considering that we historically loved to fight / gain on each other and neighbors. =))


    By the way, colleagues, I was going to write an article about the uprisings of Muslims in East Turkestan. Is it worth it, will people be interested?
    1. Semurg
      Semurg 28 January 2014 22: 42
      +2
      well, Kazakhs are more or less up to date with those events, it is unlikely for Russians to be interested, well, maybe a few people will read it and draw something for themselves for that meat too.
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    3. Ram chandra
      Ram chandra 29 January 2014 00: 13
      +5
      I would like to read.
  17. Alibekulu
    29 January 2014 09: 44
    +3
    Quote: marshes
    We do not yet have a gun ownership culture.
    There is a saying, "to be able to swim, you need to learn to swim" And so in the beginning it will be, as Zymran wrote: "At first the people will start shooting each other from the bottom of their hearts, but then they will understand that this is more dear to themselves and will calm down."
    The Americans, too, at one time had a period of the rule of the Colt laws ("lynching", the one who shoots first laughs well.)
    But from this their democratic system grew.
    But, in general, the Americans - the possession of weapons, one of the main bases of the American democratic system.
    Quote: Semurg
    Here is a country Switzerland
    I read this article. The Swiss version, the most optimal option for the Republic of Kazakhstan, but this requires an appropriate civic identity, which is supported by the welfare of the population. Otherwise, Somalia ..
    By the way, it seems like in the Baltic countries it is similar to Switzerland. I saw a program on "First", where the Baltic states showed their home arsenal - 2 machine guns, uniforms ..
    Quote: Semurg
    like in Georgia
    In general, in the war of "three eights" there could be a good batch. It's just that Georgians were afraid to fight in earnest, but this could be a modern version of the "Finnish war" ...