Military Review

Tragedy under suomussalmi

89

Monument "To the Sons of the Fatherland –– Warring Russia. 1939-1940". Sculptor Oleg Komov



In the fall and winter of 1939 - 1940, the dramatic events of the Soviet-Finnish war unfolded. I want to talk about one white spot in her stories - The deaths of thousands of Soviet soldiers and officers in the forests of subpolar Finland.

For a long time about the events in the area of ​​the village of Suomussalmi was not written a paragraph, not a line, not a word ... The tragedy remained only in memory of the miraculous participants in the battles, a narrow circle of military experts who escaped from this snowy hell. Talk about victories is easy and pleasant. But you need to know about the lesions to be able to avoid them in the future. Especially if these defeats were predetermined by military-political miscalculations.


A blow that the Finns did not expect

The symbol of the winter war was the “Mannerheim Line” on the Karelian Isthmus, which units of the Red Army tried to storm head-on, suffering heavy losses. But to the north, along the state border from Ladoga to the Barents Sea, the Finnish defense was much more “transparent” - it was held not by the regular army, but by reservists. Here the Finns did not expect a powerful strike, relying on almost complete lack of roads.

However, the blow was still inflicted. The Red Army intended to pass from the eastern border of Finland to its western coast, cutting the country in two, with a swift cast in the direction from the village of Suomussalmi to Oulu (Uleaborg).

Such a task was assigned to the 9 Army. In its center operated 163-I infantry division of the brigade A.I. Zelentsova. She was supposed to strike from Ukhta (now Kalevala) on Suomussalmi, and later on in the direction of Oulu.

30 November, 1939, the division launched an offensive. And for the first time, the days of the operation were she, and not other units of the 9 Army, the most successful. Despite the difficult terrain, in the first four days the 163 Division advanced deep into Finnish territory 50 kilometers, as it was opposed only by the Finnish battalion and small border guard units. But such a success did not suit the High Command, which expected a higher rate of advancement. On December 2, it demanded "to force the advance of our troops in every possible way."

And the 163 Division continued to develop the offensive. On December 6, one of the regiments went to the nearest approaches to Suomussalmi, an important transportation hub that was defended by two infantry battalions. December 8 The 81 and 759 regiments, advancing from two directions, captured Suomussalmi.

Mannerheim’s last reserve

The Finnish command was aware of all the danger that the loss of Suomussalmi concealed in itself. Therefore, it hastily transferred its reserve to the area - an infantry regiment, which had previously been planned to be sent to defend the Mannerheim line. The regiment, together with the battalions defending under Suomussalmi, joined the formed brigade under the command of Colonel Hjalmar. Siilasvuo, who received an order from the commander-in-chief of Mannerheim to destroy the Russians. He took a simple tactic: to cut the enemy's forces into parts and gradually destroy them.

The Finns had five battalions, and the Red Army had two regiments of the Zelentsov division. Having occupied the key points of the Raate road and having cut off almost all directions for the further advance of the 163 division, Colonel Siilasvuo began the assault on Suomussalmi. After a week of fierce fighting, reinforcements approached the Finns. Even artillery and anti-tank guns appeared.

The headquarters of the Soviet High Command, concerned about the unfavorable development of events, demanded an urgent restoration of the situation and the transfer of new forces to the aid of the 163 division.

From a telegram from 19 December 1939, to the commander of the 9 army:

IMMEDIATELY by direct wire.

The case at Suomussalmi is getting worse. I order you to take all measures and immediately immediately surrender all forces of the 44th SD in order to prevent the enemy from encircling and capturing two regiments of the 163 rifle division. Throw all Aviation to help the 163 rifle division ... The direct leadership and responsibility for conducting combat operations to assist the 163 pages of the division lies with you personally. I warn you that you will personally be responsible for a possible catastrophe of the 163 pages of the division. Report immediately about your actions and orders.
THE MAIN COMMANDER - K. VOROSHILOV
MEMBER OF THE MAIN MILITARY COUNCIL - I. STALIN
CHIEF OF GENERAL HEADQUARTERS - B.Shapshnikov

The Finnish command understood that the delay in death was similar and continued to build up its forces, sending practically its last reserves to the Suomussalmi area. And on December 22, all units and subunits operating in the area were joined by the Finnish command in the 9 Infantry Division, which was led by the same Colonel Siilasvuo.

The deprived material supply routes, the 81 and 759 rifle regiments of the 163 rifle division, after the fierce fighting of December 28, left Suomussalmi and began to withdraw to the northeast.

Meanwhile, the 44 Division was already moving to the rescue, which was tasked with striking Suomussalmi, unblocking the road on Raat and connecting with the units of the 163 Infantry Division. However, the deployment of the division transferred to Karelia from Zhytomyr, went slowly. Some units and units by this time had not yet had time to unload from the railway trains. Due to the lack of vehicles, the fighters moved with a march. Moreover, the division was not prepared for combat operations in a harsh winter. The personnel had neither warm coats, nor felt boots, nor mittens. The fighters wore thin overcoats and canvas boots. And the frost has already reached 40 degrees.

At that time, the Finnish radio intelligence service had already intercepted data on the 44 division, which was in a hurry to help the surrounding people. And then Colonel Siilasvuo took a big risk. On a narrow bridge between the Kuivajärvi and Kuomanjärvi lakes on the path of the division moving along the Raate road, he set a barrier, and from the nearby forests began to make preemptive strikes by the forces of the volatile skiers. In that war, skiing in general turned out to be almost the ideal means of transportation. In addition, the Finns had an excellent ski training: they also knew how to crawl perfectly in their bellies, without taking off their skis, and even if necessary, climb into the trees. In addition, the Soviet fighters experienced the effectiveness of Finnish snipers ("cuckoos").

The myth of the "cuckoo"

Finnish intelligence, in order to demoralize Soviet soldiers, created the myth of snipers - “cuckoos”, allegedly sitting on the branches. In fact, the Finnish soldier could be on a tree only for the purpose of observation, but not to be ambushed. After all, it is generally difficult to think of a more unfortunate place for this - in such a situation, the sniper unmasks the first shot, and it is simply impossible to change position quickly, not to mention the likelihood of a fall from a height, even in the case of the slightest injury. That is why Finnish snipers preferred to “pretend to be from themselves” a snowdrift or, at the very least, to hide behind a tree, but certainly not to climb on it. But the myth acted, the Soviet soldiers, moving through the forest, constantly looked around at all the trees, and their attention was weakened.

Due to the fact that almost all of the 44-I division was on foot, the column was stretched for 30 kilometers. As a result, parts of the division, tired of the multi-kilometer crossing, engaged in battle from the march. The snow and difficult terrain prevented the divisional division Vinogradov from using military equipment. Therefore, the blow of the 44 division turned out to be weak, and the position of the 163 division remained all the same heavy: its forces dried up.

But the 44-Infantry Division itself was in a difficult position. After the liberation of Suomussalmi, Colonel Khyalmar Siilasvuo regrouped his units: now he redirected the main forces against the 44 division. With flank attacks on parts of the division that stretched along the road, he cut off her communications in several places, depriving the supply of ammunition, fuel and food, and the ability to evacuate the wounded. By this time, the 44 th rifle division was separated from the 163 th division of the entire 10 kilometers.

The situation was complicated by the fact that the maps at the disposal of the Soviet units were not so accurate that they had to use Finnish tourist. And the divisions had to move almost blindly.

Due to the lack of interaction and the lack of communication of the division commander of the 163 Division, Zelentsov, without waiting for the approach of the units of the 44 Infantry Division, and without coordinating their actions with the division commander Vinogradov, decided to leave the encirclement independently. The division overcame Kianta-Yarvi Lake on the ice, and reached the Soviet-Finnish border, losing about 30 percent of personnel, as well as a large number of weapons and military equipment. The command could not organize a competent withdrawal, and if it were not for the heroism of the fighters and commanders of the 81 Mountain Regiment that covered the retreat of the main forces, the losses could have been even greater.

The Stavka of the Soviet High Command blamed the commander of the 9 Army for Dukhanov and the Chief of Staff of the Sokolovsky Army for blame for the failure and the failed attack. They were removed from their posts. They arrested and prosecuted the commander of the most injured 662 Infantry Regiment Sharov and Commissioner Podkhomutov. They "sincerely" confessed to sabotage and were shot.

Defeating the 44 Division

... And the position of the 44 Infantry Division deteriorated by the hour. As a result of the strikes undertaken by the Finnish forces from December 30 1939 to January 4 1940, the division was divided into six centers of resistance. Unfortunately, the brigade commander Vinogradov failed to unravel the maneuver of the Finnish troops and organize them to repel. In addition, the Finns knew about the plans of the Soviet command, since even 27 of December they had captured a number of orders for the 44 division and had time to get ready to repel attacks in the right places. A few days later, they themselves switched to counterattacks. The situation was aggravated by the fact that at the most crucial moment one of the battalions of the division, whose fighters had not received hot food for several days, left the front without permission. As a result, the left flank of the division was exposed, which the Finns took advantage of.

On January 2, Finnish ski teams cut the only road that the divisional column was moving on. People and equipment crowded in a small area became an excellent target for Finnish artillery. The attempted breakthrough attempts made on January 2-4 failed. The commander of the division Vinogradov and the chief of staff of the division Volkov lost control of the troops. They still 4 January asked the command of the 9 Army for permission to leave the environment without heavy weapons and equipment, since there was no fuel, no horses. Some of the horses fell from hunger, the others were eaten by the surrounded fighters. In addition, the Finns organized the so-called "carousel" - small Finnish ski flying teams constantly inflicted disturbing blows. Suddenly appearing on the flanks and in the rear of the Soviet units, they opened heavy fire, and then suddenly disappeared. Not only subunits, but also headquarters were hit. This made confusion, disrupted communication, disorganized management. In addition, there were fierce frosts, and if the soldiers did not die from a bullet, they froze to death in their thin overcoats. But the commander, due to the lack of reserves, could not render substantial assistance to the surrounded units. At his disposal there were only a battalion and a howitzer artillery regiment that escaped encirclement, and a 5 company formed from the arriving recruits. But, with such forces, it was only possible to press the Finns only half a kilometer away. All attempts to break the ring around parts of the 44 Division were unsuccessful.

Late in the evening of January 6, the permission came to Bid on the withdrawal of parts of the division from the environment, but with the indispensable preservation of heavy weapons and equipment. Then the connection with the army headquarters was interrupted.

After receiving the permission of the 10 Army Command at 9 in the evening: “Act on their own initiative,” Vinogradov on January 7 ordered at its own risk “to destroy the hardware and retreat to Važnvaara area in the east along the forests”. By this time, the indiscriminate retreat had already begun, which had fled.

Colonel Siilasvuo described this digression as follows: “The panic of those around was growing, the enemy no longer had joint and organized actions, everyone tried to act independently to save his life. The forest was full of running people. Fighters threw not only guns and machine guns, but also rifles. Many Red Army soldiers perished caught in a snowstorm. Their bodies were found and buried in the spring, after the snow melted. At noon on the 7th, the enemy began to surrender, mostly they were wounded. Hungry and frozen people came out of the dugouts. The one and only nest continued to resist, for a while it was left alone ... We captured an incredibly large amount of military materials that our units could not even dream of in a dream. We got everything in perfect order, the guns were new, they still shone ... Trophies were 40 field and 29 anti-tank guns, 27 tanks“6 armored vehicles, 20 tractors, 160 trucks, 32 field kitchens, 600 horses.”

By the evening of January 7, the first groups of the fighters of the division, headed by its commander and headquarters, arrived in Vazhenvaara. People left the encirclement for several days. According to Finnish data, about 1300 people were taken prisoner. 44-division lost almost all weapons and military equipment. 40 percent of fighters who left the environment were even without rifles.

Komdiv shot in front of the ranks

Thus, the plans of the Soviet command to unite the two divisions and their swift rush along the shortest path to the western border of Finland were thwarted. The remnants of the 163 division went back to the north and entrenched themselves in the town of Yuntusrant until the end of the war, and the 44 (with about 17 and a half thousand people) was defeated. (The loss of division personnel exceeded 70 percent). Only a few groups and singles, who immediately fell into the hands of the NKVD, managed to leave the environment.

19 January 1940 of the year issued an order of the Main Military Council: "In the 6-7 battles of January, at the front of the 9 Army in the area east of Suomusalmi, the 44-Infantry Division, in spite of its technical and numerical superiority, did not provide adequate resistance to the enemy; machine guns, artillery, tanks and in disarray went to the border. The main reasons for being so shameful for the 44 Infantry Division of the defeat were:

1. Cowardice and shameful treacherous behavior of the division command in the person of the division commander Kombriga Vinogradov, the chief of the political department of the regimental commissar Pakhomenko division and the head of the division of Colonel Volkov, instead of taking command of will and energy in the leadership of units and persistence in defense, instead of taking measures to withdraw parts, weapons and material parts, meanly threw the division in the most crucial period of the battle and were the first to go to the rear, saving their skin.

2. The confusion of the senior and middle command personnel of the divisions, who, having forgotten about the duty of the commander to the Motherland and the Army, lost control of their units and divisions and did not organize the correct withdrawal of units, did not try to save weapons, artillery, tanks.

3. The lack of military discipline, poor military training and low education of the fighters, thanks to which the division, forgetting its duty to the Motherland, violated the military oath, threw even its personal weapon - rifles, light machine guns - and left in a panic, completely defenseless .
The main culprits of this shame suffered a deserved punishment of Soviet law. The military tribunal of 11 and 12 in January considered the case of Vinogradov, Pakhomenko and Volkov, who had pleaded guilty to mean aborcism, and sentenced them to death. ”



TOP SECRET


CHIEF OF THE GENERAL STAFF OF THE RED ARMY


t. SHAPOSHNIKOVU. (for bet)


We report: the trial of the former commander of 44 sd Vinogradov, chief of staff VOLKOVY and chief political officer PAKHOMENKO took place on January 11 in Vazhenvara under the open sky in the presence of the personnel of the division. The defendants pleaded guilty to the crimes committed. The speeches of the prosecutor and the public prosecutor were approved by all those present. The court lasted fifty minutes. The sentence to the execution was carried out immediately by a public platoon of the Red Army. After the execution of the sentence, a meeting of the commanders was held, at which further explanatory work was scheduled. The identification of all traitors and cowards continues. In 44 sd, a commission of the Military Council works, whose duties are to investigate in detail all the causes and circumstances of the defeat of 44 sd.

January 11 Chuikov, Mehlis


Information: In total, Finnish troops lost about 800 people near Suomussalmi, ours - about 23 thousands (killed, wounded, missing, frostbitten). Finnish specialists, considering the reasons for the defeat of the 44 division, pay special attention to psychological factors: on the Raate road, two military models of thinking collided, one of which recklessly believed in equipment, the other in a more efficient lightly armed fighter in this area.

Epilogue

This material is not written by a professional historian and does not claim to be of scientific or historical significance. But I want to say, any war is a tragedy of nations. And it seems that the peoples of Russia and Finland have learned from the war and realized its disastrous consequences. They had the courage not only to reconcile, but also to establish good-neighborly relations, which allowed in time to ease the pain of past offenses and to perpetuate the memory of those who died in the fighting. In the area of ​​the village of Suomussalmi, there are more than a hundred nameless graves of Soviet soldiers. At first, the very idea of ​​the installation, here at least a memorable sign was encountered by the Finns with hostility. But times have changed, in 1994, in Finland, a monument was erected to the dead fighters of the 163 and 44 divisions. It is called "Sons of the Fatherland - Grieving Russia".

Photo:

Battle map

Map of fights.

Combrig 44-th division Alexei Vinogradov.

Combrig 44 Division Alexei Vinogradov

Tragedy under suomussalmi

Fighters of the 44 Division

Chief of Staff Captain Alpo Kullervo Martinen (one of the leaders of the defeat of the 44-th and 163-th divisions). Photos from the Finnish archive of the Winter War http://sa-kuva.fi

Chief of Staff Captain Alpo Kullervo Martinen (one of the leaders of the defeat of the 44-th and 163-th divisions). Photos from the Finnish archive of the Winter War http://sa-kuva.fi

The famous Finnish sniper, the symbol of the Finnish "cuckoo" Simo "Valkoinen Kuolema" ("White Death") Hyahya, destroyed more than 500 Soviet soldiers. Photos from the Finnish archive of the Winter War http://sa-kuva.fi

The famous Finnish sniper, the symbol of the Finnish "cuckoo" Simo "Valkoinen Kuolema" ("White Death") Hyahya, destroyed more than 500 Soviet soldiers. Photos from the Finnish archive of the Winter War http://sa-kuva.fi

The Finnish funeral team is posing against the backdrop of the December dead 9 fighters of the 3 squadron of the 81 th company. Photos from the Finnish archive of the Winter War http://sa-kuva.fi

The Finnish funeral team is posing against the backdrop of the December dead 9 fighters of the 3 squadron of the 81 th company. Photos from the Finnish archive of the Winter War http://sa-kuva.fi

Finnish officers inspect the trophies obtained in Suomussalmi (guide skiing). Photos from the Finnish archive of the Winter War http://sa-kuva.fi

Finnish officers inspect the trophies obtained in Suomussalmi (guide skiing). Photos from the Finnish archive of the Winter War http://sa-kuva.fi

The crushed convoy of machines 44-th division. Photos from the Finnish archive of the Winter War http://sa-kuva.fi

The crushed convoy of machines 44-th division. Photos from the Finnish archive of the Winter War http://sa-kuva.fi

Crushed tank column 44-th division. Photos from the Finnish archive of the Winter War http://sa-kuva.fi

Crushed tank column 44-th division. Photos from the Finnish archive of the Winter War http://sa-kuva.fi

Broken Soviet wagon train. From the archive of American photojournalist Carl Midans

Broken Soviet wagon train. From the archive of American photojournalist Carl Midans

Frozen bread seized by the Finns. From the archive of American photojournalist Carl Midans

Frozen bread seized by the Finns. From the archive of American photojournalist Carl Midans

Prisoners of the Red Army 44-th division. December 1939 of the year. From the archive of American photojournalist Carl Midans

Prisoners of the Red Army 44-th division. December 1939 of the year. From the archive of American photojournalist Carl Midans

Frozen under Suomussalmi. From the archive of American photojournalist Carl Midans

Frozen under Suomussalmi. From the archive of American photojournalist Carl Midans

The Red Army soldiers of the 44 division frozen in a trench. From the archive of American photojournalist Carl Midans

The Red Army soldiers of the 44 division frozen in a trench. From the archive of American photojournalist Carl Midans

Suomussalmi. The harsh truth of the war ... Finnish soldiers posing next to the body of a frozen Red Army. http://pictures-of-war.livejournal.com/127505.html

Suomussalmi. The harsh truth of the war ... Finnish soldiers posing next to the body of a frozen Red Army. http://pictures-of-war.livejournal.com/127505.html

A long time ago in the spring of 1940, when the snow began to melt, the locals found the decomposing bodies of the Red Army. http://pictures-of-war.livejournal.com/127505.html

A long time ago in the spring of 1940, when the snow began to melt, the locals found the decomposing bodies of the Red Army. http://pictures-of-war.livejournal.com/127505.html

War correspondent. Suomussalmi, December 1939 of the year. Photos from the Finnish archive of the Winter War http://sa-kuva.fi

War correspondent. Suomussalmi, December 1939 of the year. Photos from the Finnish archive of the Winter War http://sa-kuva.fi


Information sources:
http://gov.karelia.ru/Karelia/1163/25.html
http://gov.karelia.ru/Karelia/1163/vv.pdf
http://www.proza.ru/2011/08/05/1121
http://www.istor-44gsd.ru/
http://sa-kuva.fi/
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89 comments
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  1. Fofan
    Fofan 23 January 2014 08: 30
    -5
    schA as zaminusut and say that everything is untrue!
    1. smile
      smile 23 January 2014 13: 30
      +5
      Fofan
      Well? Have you minded? Did you say that? And you minus for showing off.
  2. Trapperxnumx
    Trapperxnumx 23 January 2014 09: 04
    +31
    Well, of course, I understand everything, but I don’t remember something of the pictures where our servicemen would pose against the background of the frozen corpses of Wehrmacht soldiers. War is war, of course, the enemy is the enemy, but at least the rudiments of conscience and respect for the dead need to be.
    1. Poppy
      Poppy 23 January 2014 11: 39
      +7
      because they ended up losing
    2. smile
      smile 23 January 2014 13: 38
      +5
      Trapperxnumx
      But among the fascists this is generally accepted - look, these photos are full of Hitler's fascist allies. They have such a tradition.
      Of the countries of the anti-Hitler coalition, this was found only among the Americans, and that. at that time - not so often, then they liked to take pictures on the background of corpses ... adnak trend ... :)))
    3. Wynd
      Wynd 22 October 2015 12: 05
      0
      In the memoirs of a veteran of the Battle of Stalingrad (the title of the book must be looked for) I came across a couple of times that near Stalingrad, after the defeat of the 6th Army (and others like them), there was a case: on the way into the snowdrifts, dead Fritzes were dug up to the top, or for use as pointers, or in revenge. And then in the memoirs, it is condemned, calling it "unnecessary self-indulgence." Although the level of frenzy was critical and I would not blame our people for this.
  3. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 23 January 2014 10: 08
    +13
    By the way, in the photographs you can see how closely, without any interval, our equipment went. It is curious to read the few books devoted to that war. In some, both our and Finnish authors note that it was the haste with which various "orders" were carried out that led to disastrous consequences for the Red Army. Everyone notes that in the beginning the hostilities were conducted without any enemy reconnaissance. And if there was reconnaissance, then it was shallow and moved only in front of the columns, absolutely not inspecting the sides. It was also noted the absolute passivity of the soldiers of our army when attacking them, the lack of leadership of the resistance during the attack. This was due to the fact that large numbers of soldiers were used in places where it was simply impossible to lead them due to the stretching of the order. Where small, compact, well-armed and well-to-do groups were used, competent leadership and organized resistance were observed. Such groups successfully resisted even in conditions of complete encirclement and, although with losses, but broke through to their own, and some managed to hold out even for several months surrounded (18 infantry div. And 34 light tank brigade) and even until the end of the war (168 infantry division) and then participated in the offensive. In general, the reasons for the large losses of the Red Army in that war are:
    1) the lack of operational intelligence before the war and tactical intelligence during the period of hostilities.
    2) the haste of making decisions and the haste of their implementation.
    3) lack of consideration of terrain features and weather conditions when planning and conducting operations.
    4) poor leadership of all parts of the command staff.
    5) the lack of modern means of communication and control and, as a result, the lack of coordination of both the combat arms and the units themselves with each other.
    6) inability to organize fire interaction of both units and army units.
    7) poor tactical training of both units and individual fighters.
    8) insufficient provision of fighters with equipment, taking into account weather conditions.
    All of these shortcomings were noticed by experts from other countries and served as a reason for Hitler to conclude that the USSR was a "colossus with feet of clay" and change plans from the initial attack on England to an attack on the USSR.
  4. Volkhov
    Volkhov 23 January 2014 10: 12
    +21
    In the photo, the favorite pastime of the Soviet and Russian army - to drive in convoys without security - is the same in all wars, only the make of cars is changing. Interestingly, the fleet adopted this custom with the same result. Since the time of his service, the conviction has appeared and strengthened that the task of all commissions is to select the weak-minded for the command staff, a normal person is incapable of such a thing.
    1. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 23 January 2014 19: 58
      +1
      Quote: Volkhov
      Interestingly, the fleet adopted this custom with the same result.

      Explain
      1. Volkhov
        Volkhov 23 January 2014 20: 03
        0
        There is such a concept - the Virtual Fleet (dead ships living in the media), over six months it has become more than real, one of the modern wonders.
  5. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 23 January 2014 11: 04
    +7
    Here, a good selection of photographs of the guys who visited a short tour of the battlefields of that war ...
    http://neytomimii.livejournal.com/127340.html
  6. Same lech
    Same lech 23 January 2014 11: 04
    +5
    the selection of the weak-minded in the command staff — for the first Chechen war — in KREMLIN these weak-minded people also drove our soldiers into battle without any serious preparation — in general, fools, history does not teach anything.

    In all this, it’s a pity the rank and file entrusted to the command staff of the 44th division, the mediocre leadership and the organization of hostilities led to such tragic consequences.
  7. apro
    apro 23 January 2014 11: 05
    0
    Yes, tragedy and yes received by the guts, but the world won the war, concluded on our terms, made the right conclusions with acceptable losses.
    1. Fedya
      Fedya 24 January 2014 23: 16
      0
      Reminds the 1st Chechen.
  8. Same lech
    Same lech 23 January 2014 11: 06
    +1
    the selection of the weak-minded in the command staff — for the first Chechen war — in KREMLIN these weak-minded people also drove our soldiers into battle without any serious preparation — in general, fools, history does not teach anything.

    In all this, it’s a pity the rank and file entrusted to the command staff of the 44th division, the mediocre leadership and the organization of hostilities led to such tragic consequences.
  9. Nu daaaa ...
    Nu daaaa ... 23 January 2014 11: 06
    -11%
    The USSR would not attack Finland, there would be no such losses. Sorry for the dead ...
    1. Nu daaaa ...
      Nu daaaa ... 23 January 2014 11: 15
      -7
      On the minus, I understand that you are not sorry for your victims ... the rest is historically a fact. hi
      1. smile
        smile 23 January 2014 14: 15
        +16
        Nu daaaa
        Greetings!
        Let's start with the fact that Finland, from the moment of its formation with the help of states hostile to Russia, is a state aimed at an aggressive coalition war against Russia. Since coming to power, Mannerheim and the entire Finnish elite have not concealed that Finland’s goal is to capture Russian territories and increase Finland by about three times ... at our expense. These comrades never hid their pathological Russophobia - Mannerheim even the White Guards, who helped the Germans and White Finns destroy the hundred thousandth army of the Red Finns, as a sign of gratitude, shot or planted in concentration camps who could not escape.

        If we didn’t give them the tough and pushed the border, albeit at an initially expensive price, I’m not sure that the Finnish-German troops could stop where they stopped. We could lose Murmansk, the Finns could more effectively starve people in St. Petersburg .... by the way, far from everywhere they stopped at the old border - Karelia was captured by Finnish-German troops and we foiled plans to force the Belomorkanal.
        By the way, maybe someone does not remember - in all the occupied territories the Finns immediately drove the entire Russian population into concentration camps or, as a variety, shot them. Without exception. Of those who did not manage to evacuate, about 10 percent of the civilian population escaped a similar fate. Think about these numbers. Even the Nazis did not do that - they postponed the implementation of the OST plan until later. The Finns were not shy. It is probably symbolic that Shutskor is translated from Swedish as "security detachments" .. and here the Finns were ahead of their Nazi accomplices ...
        Well, well, yeah, like it? Maybe we should act like the Finns, returning the lands illegally torn away in the 20s, on which the artificial state of Estonia appeared? And what, the Finnish guys left 10 percent of the local population - is this normal, in your opinion? And this is not a link to a new place of residence - deportation, this is a concentration camp! Now, when you condemn the inhumanity of the Finns, who implemented the OST plan earlier than the Germans, then I will believe in your objectivity and pay attention to dissatisfaction with the deportation of the Baltic states ...

        And all that I said is a historical fact that I can prove even now.

        Okay. do not be offended. for some reason I got angry with you here :))) ... by the way, I just remembered that I had an unanswered letter — forgive me — I forgot.
        And you again have 3 turtles ... now, damn it :))) it is worth turning away - and again you are three times immortal ... :)))
      2. Nicola
        Nicola 23 January 2014 19: 52
        -7
        There is no justification for the massacre. For the sake of ambition, our grandfathers drove our cattle like silent cattle to slaughter. All who justify any war, for any purpose (except defensive, to protect their land), put yourself, at least mentally, into the convoy destroyed. And this there were people, they raised children, loved wives, dreamed of a better share. They didn’t need the world revolution, they didn’t need the Finnish land. Alas, there is nothing to be proud of.
        1. Alekseev
          Alekseev 23 January 2014 21: 29
          +5
          Quote: Nicola
          And these were people, they raised children, loved wives, dreamed of a better life. They didn’t need the world revolution, they didn’t need the Finnish land. Alas, there is nothing to be proud of.

          Unfortunately, the Finnish "not famous" as the poet said, the war is far from the only one in the history of mankind (not to mention the 20th century) in which many people died, instead of "raising children", etc. People without wars , to our great regret, have not yet learned to live ... request Around the world, and not just in Russia or the USSR.
          You interpret the Soviet-Finnish conflict somewhat strangely.
          Finland was an ally of Nazi Germany (de facto). Her and her ally's armed forces posed a clear threat to Leningrad, especially in view of the special proximity of the state. borders. In 1940, potentially, and later quite clearly.
          And then the world revolution? what
          But there were many examples of mediocre preparation and conduct of hostilities on our part - this is a well-known fact.
        2. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 23 January 2014 21: 56
          +8
          Quote: Nicola
          For the sake of ambition, our ancestors drove our grandfathers, like a silent cattle, to slaughter. All who justify any war, for any purpose (except defensive, to protect their land), put yourself, at least mentally, into the column of those being destroyed. And these were people, they raised children, loved wives, dreamed of a better life.

          For the sake of whose ambitions at the beginning of the 20s of the last century, "shutskor" cut out Russians and Karelians in Karelia?
          Are you a fat man?
        3. abdrah
          abdrah 24 January 2014 03: 29
          +5
          Mykola, you just have to kill yourself "ab wall!" And the fact that the USSR, as a result of that war, significantly increased its territory and moved the border away from Leningrad is certainly not an argument, just like the fact that the Finns lost access to the Arctic Ocean. According to the Western picture of the modern world order, Chukhon is considered an Arctic state and should be directly involved in the discussion of issues The only trouble is that the Arctic Chukhons ceased to be 70 years ago, and only eccentrics (with the letter M) in the west and are eaten by guilt and seeking excuses from us think that everything was in vain. I am proud that my ancestors did not piss and did not blame themselves for all sins, but came and took what they needed, and if God forbid it happened the other way around, we would not all be sitting in front of computers sucking on the details of those warriors.
      3. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 24 January 2014 17: 26
        0
        Quote: Nu daaaa ...
        On the minus, I understand that you are not sorry for your victims ... the rest is historically a fact.

        It’s a pity for the dead, but there is no victory without victims. We needed to cover Leningrad. We can add that during the Second World War the Finns, realizing that they could not get away with it, didn’t really want to attack. And the Hanko p-island lasted until the winter. Yes and in 1945 a completely different conversation began
    2. Nuar
      Nuar 23 January 2014 12: 07
      -6
      Quote: Nu daaaa ...
      The USSR would not attack Finland, there would be no such losses.

      for sure. The fact that the Finns in foreign policy focused on Germany, had German weapons, German uniforms - this is nonsense. It was not worth paying attention to it. After all, after the start of the Second World War, they declared to the Germans - they say we went to our old borders, and then you’d like something yourself ... but there wouldn’t be a war - they wouldn’t have to go anywhere ...

      Oh yes. A mortar shelling of Soviet units from the Finnish territory is a trifle.

      Moscow® and Stalin ™ ("Bloody tyrant" © ® ™) - just "disproportionately" used force.
      1. Nu daaaa ...
        Nu daaaa ... 23 January 2014 15: 07
        0
        Quote: Nuar
        A mortar shelling of Soviet units from the Finnish territory is a trifle.


        As they said below, teach the materiel. And the story. Who shot whom. Mainila, the place is ...
        1. smile
          smile 23 January 2014 15: 35
          +8
          Nu daaaa ..
          Even Finnish historians do not interpret the incident in Mineil unequivocally - many are inclined to believe that the Finns did shelling - it was not in vain that the head of the Finnish artillery was there in time in advance ... :))))
          By the way, Finnish historians are perhaps the most conscientious of the Western ones - along with the ordinary ones who say that. that the Russians are always guilty of everything, there are a lot of sane, confirming the preparation of the Finnish side for a coalition war of aggression, and exposing tales of the minimal losses of the Finnish half-million army, which was actually defeated by the spring of 40 years. in view of which even the couple of weeks before the entry into the war of the expeditionary force of the Anglo-French troops that the Finns had asked their patrons to hold out could not hold out.
          By the way, the Finns do not hide interesting data about the mass sending of sabotage groups manned by former White Guards to us in the 30s, cooperation with the ROVS (I repeat - not scouts, which would be normal, but saboteurs and terrorists). Also very interesting is their evidence that the Finns even tried to reconcile their actions with the Japanese in the upcoming war of aggression, which they were preparing for, even allowed them to open a Japanese intelligence center and intelligence school on their territory. By the way, the personnel and archives of the Japanese, they, in violation of the terms of the armistice of 44 years, were evacuated to Sweden.
          1. Pancho
            Pancho 23 January 2014 21: 49
            0
            Quote: smile
            Mannerheim, even the White Guards, who helped the Germans and White Finns destroy the XNUMX-strong army of Red Finns, as a sign of gratitude, shot or planted in concentration camps who could not escape.

            Quote: smile
            By the way, the Finns do not hide interesting data about the mass sending of sabotage groups manned by former White Guards to us in the 30s, cooperation with the ROVS (I repeat - not scouts, which would be normal, but saboteurs and terrorists).

            It seems to me that this is a contradiction.
            1. smile
              smile 23 January 2014 22: 09
              +1
              Pancho
              I understand you. But there is no contradiction. It’s just that the comment format does not allow you to shove everything into it at once ... :)))
              The Finns did this immediately after independence, and all the property of Russian businessmen was confiscated. Of course. some who stayed - roughly like Jews in Nazi Germany. Subsequently, by the thirties, the Finns realized the usefulness of Russian emigrants in preparing a war with us, in the 30s a branch of the ROVS was organized, too lazy to look, but around 33 or 34, the top leadership of the ROVS came to Finland to establish cooperation with the Finnish intelligence, their government and for organizing sabotage and terrorist activities Rovs against the USSR.
              The question of whether to issue visas to the leadership of the ROVS and whether to enter into negotiations with him was the subject of parliamentary hearings in Finland, not everyone wanted to take such a clearly hostile step until the anti-Russian coalition took shape.
  10. Sergei 163
    Sergei 163 23 January 2014 11: 23
    0
    And the Finns are not too warmly dressed. Maybe filmed later?
  11. Poppy
    Poppy 23 January 2014 11: 41
    +6
    a famous tragedy, they didn’t make a special secret of it, but, for obvious reasons, did not advertise

    in pure form the wine of the command of the division, shot quite rightly
  12. drop
    drop 23 January 2014 12: 10
    +10
    This is not one tragedy of that war. The main thing our losses did not teach the high command to fight, especially Voroshilov. There were cases of destruction of our hospitals by Finnish skiers. And many observers are right that there are few photographs where our soldiers were photographed against the background of the corpses of enemies. The anniversary of the lifting of the blockade of Leningrad is approaching, but few people know that the city was saved in another war by the great commander G.K. Zhukov, who in three weeks managed not only to defend the city, but also to defeat many Nazi units of the Army Group "North", to save the Baltic Fleet, to establish precise artillery fire of the Baltic Fleet against accumulations of tanks, to strengthen the strength of the Leningrad Front and much more. I was pleased to publish in VO an article about the defense of the BBK, when on December 9, 1941, the Finnish armored battalion was washed away into Lake Onega. The losses of the Finns then amounted to 2 thousand people. This and other events then made it possible to stabilize the Karelian Front until 1944. But our fathers learned to fight, having suffered heavy losses, and they did not teach Voroshilov either. My father died defending Leningrad. Blessed memory of our fathers and grandfathers. I have the honor.
    1. Volkhov
      Volkhov 23 January 2014 13: 38
      0
      So the village with its washed away. A soldier can run away, but how are families in the cold?
      1. drop
        drop 23 January 2014 14: 52
        +1
        The village was evacuated when the units of the Red Army left on the right bank of the BBK.
        1. Volkhov
          Volkhov 23 January 2014 16: 17
          -2
          From your article:
          If the withdrawal of parts of the Karelian Front to new positions was carried out under the control of the command, then a different picture developed at the end of November 1941 in the raid at Povenets. Dozens of shipping companies, having received no indication of the place of wintering, arrived in Povenets. Here the teams were captured by the Finns and many were shot.

          That is, the Povenets at the end of November was occupied by the Finns and it is difficult to believe in the complete evacuation before this - where the peasants will go - to the snowdrift? They could not inform them of the plan of the bombing either, it is written there that the plan is secret.
          After the withdrawal of all parts of the Red Army to the lines established by the headquarters of the Karelian Front, dam 20 and the gate of gateway 7 were blown up in turn. The command order was executed on December 11, 1941.

          That is, the explosion was a few weeks after the departure from Povenets and the locals fell under the flood. The Dneproges were blown up in about the same way - about 3000 refugees were washed away.
          The Finns had sentries on the street, they had to raise the alarm and the soldiers could run away, and it was unrealistic for any woman to get out a family.
      2. drop
        drop 23 January 2014 14: 52
        +2
        The village was evacuated when the units of the Red Army left on the right bank of the BBK.
    2. klim44
      klim44 23 January 2014 19: 33
      -2
      You probably have read Zhukovsky memoirs and watched the movie Blockade * this film on the channel once a month they appear)?
      1. smile
        smile 23 January 2014 22: 14
        +1
        klim44
        And you, apparently, are a fan of the Buchnik, Solonin, Pig, Melech, and, in addition, a Resinist? :)))
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 23 January 2014 22: 19
          +4
          Quote: smile
          klim44
          And you, apparently, are a fan of the Buchnik, Solonin, Pig, Melech, and, in addition, a Resinist? :)))

          So what to do?
          Today in the bookstores only Nosovsky is sold for a couple with Fomenko. In the markdown department ... laughing
    3. pensioner
      pensioner 23 January 2014 22: 00
      +2
      Quote: Drop
      My father died defending Leningrad. Bright memory to our fathers and grandfathers. I have the honor.

      Yuri Grigoryevich! I wanted to express my sincere respect to you, but somehow I can’t find all the right words ... I will limit myself to an emoticon: hi hi hi
      1. drop
        drop 24 January 2014 08: 45
        0
        Thank you for rating.
      2. drop
        drop 24 January 2014 08: 45
        0
        Thank you for rating.
  13. Neophyte
    Neophyte 23 January 2014 13: 00
    -9
    In the same way, Tolyan threw a tank armada into a narrow tunnel in South Ossetia. How many were stuck?
    And where are the air strikes? As a result, Smerdyukov became a war hero and defender of the Fatherland.
    1. smile
      smile 23 January 2014 14: 23
      +10
      Neophyte
      I wonder what other way to South Ossetia do you see, besides the Roki tunnel? :))) Enlighten us, please reveal your strategic and geographic genius :))) And what kind of armada are you talking about? After all, except for you, this "armada" was not noticed by anyone. :)))
      You are not aware that ours acted there battalion tactical groups? :))) That's how fairy tales are born .... Oh, these tales ... oh, these storytellers ... :)))
    2. smile
      smile 23 January 2014 22: 20
      0
      Neophyte
      Sorry, Tatyana, I did not immediately understand that you are a girl. This explains a lot :))). I take off all the questions. I would know - would be softer.
  14. The comment was deleted.
  15. Neophyte
    Neophyte 23 January 2014 13: 07
    +2
    The Germans, by the way, besides the pan-attack, had mobile groups in the troops: snipers, machine gunners and light tanks.
    It was the experience of the Finnish campaign. Such groups easily wedged themselves into our defense and struck the flanks. Ours learned this only in 1943.
    It’s a pity for our soldiers who died in Finnish. A blessed memory to them!
    1. Snoop
      Snoop 23 January 2014 15: 57
      +2
      As for the snipers, the Germans do not agree. Yes, they were with them, but as they say grossly they were not prepared. In the West, all the military felt that sniping was a relic of a trench warfare. But the Hans drew attention to the need for snipers only when they encountered tactics of sniper terror (not my term, the term of Western historians and weapons experts) from the side of the Red Army and the NKVD in 41.
  16. dickest
    dickest 23 January 2014 14: 05
    0
    Quote: Trapper7
    Well, of course, I understand everything, but I don’t remember something of the pictures where our servicemen would pose against the background of the frozen corpses of Wehrmacht soldiers. War is war, of course, the enemy is the enemy, but at least the rudiments of conscience and respect for the dead need to be.

    perhaps due to the lack of a camera ...
    those events take place in the days of iPhones ... it’s even scary to think ...
    1. Walking
      Walking 23 January 2014 14: 31
      +2
      Our soldiers have a different mentality.
  17. nekromonger
    nekromonger 23 January 2014 14: 10
    +1
    And there is nothing to add: the death of the columns on the march and the "boilers", everything was repeated in the Second World War, and the extreme are a dime a dozen.
    1. creak
      creak 23 January 2014 14: 42
      +1
      But how could it not be repeated if Kirponos, who commanded the 70th Infantry Division in the Finnish War, in April 1941 was already the commander of the Kiev Special Military District - one of the largest in the Red Army. Before his appointment to this position, as a result of such a hasty career, he never received the proper experience of commanding either a corps or an army ... And Colonel General Kirponos subordinated to the beginning of the war 4 armies and 8 mechanized corps, not counting other formations and units district and army submission. Add to this the lack of reliable means of communication - the radio stations were not enough and those that were reluctant to use and a number of other important factors ... All this led to the loss of command and control and, as you know, ended with the Kiev boiler and the death of Kirponos himself, despite the fact that some the compounds in the border battle proved to be very worthy, for example, the 8th mechanized corps or the 9th under the command of KK Rokossovsky.
      1. alone
        alone 23 January 2014 19: 43
        +4
        Firstly, Kirponos received the title of Hero of the Soviet Union for the Finnish campaign. In early March 1940, the division made a 6-day detour of the Vyborg fortified area on the ice of the Gulf of Finland and knocked the Finns out of the fortifications on the northern shore of the Vyborg Gulf, cutting off the Vyborg-Helsinki road. Soon, the division repelled several dozen enemy counterattacks, crowding him out and creating a threat from the rear to his forces in Vyborg, which largely ensured the rapid success of other units during the assault on Vyborg.
        so on, in April he was appointed commander of the 49th arrow corps, and after a few months he became commander of the Leningrad Military District.
        he acted just the same well, given the situation. It was his actions that led to the fact that the South group could not fulfill during the tasks assigned, the Germans had to
        collapse 2 armies from the "Center" group against the troops of Kirponos. During the Kiev operation, despite the fact that Kirponos, Vasilevsky, Shaposhnikov and Budyonny insisted on the immediate withdrawal of troops from Kiev, permission to retreat from the operational bag around Kiev was not given by the Headquarters. I think it is wrong to blame Kirponos for the defeat of the troops of the South-Western Front. As the commander Kirponos did not leave the troops, he died with dignity. You should not be so about a man who completed all his officer's duty to the end hi
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 23 January 2014 22: 04
          +5
          Quote: lonely
          During the Kiev operation, despite the fact that Kirponos, Vasilevsky, Shaposhnikov and Budyonny insisted on the immediate withdrawal of troops from Kiev, permission to retreat from the operational bag around Kiev was not given by Stavka. So I consider it wrong to blame Kirponos for the defeat of the troops of the South-Western Front .As the commander of Kirponos did not leave the troops, he died with dignity

          Budyonny was the first to sound the alarm, which he reported to Headquarters. The bid was silent for a couple of days. And then I. Stalin, through a direct wire, asked Kirponos whether he would keep Kiev? So Baghramyan In his MEMOIRS, he directly writes that everyone at the command post fell silent - what will Kirponos answer? And he said "Yes. I will." Budyonny was accused of alarmism. And Kirponos only had to "stand on the bridge" of the dying Kiev group. The fate of Commander Pavlov was already known ...
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. creak
          creak 24 January 2014 11: 11
          +1
          My comment is not about whether Kirponos fulfilled his duty or not, but that he was simply not ready to command such a colossus as the South-Western Front - KK Rokossovsky directly speaks about this in his memoirs, about the burden , shouldered on Kirponos’ shoulders, was too much for that. The opinion of such a decent and talented commander as Rokosossovsky and Baghramyan, direct participants in those events, I think, can be trusted ... The gene also did a similar career take-off. Pavlov - this is not the fault, but the misfortune of these military leaders ... And yet - Kirponos did not leave the encirclement together with the Front troops, but with a group of staff and security personnel (about 800 people in total), and at Schumeykovo the group was surrounded and almost all died ... Yes, the dead do not have shame, but what happened - it was, personal courage and honesty, unfortunately, cannot replace experience and professionalism - and our generals didn’t have enough of them in the initial period ..
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Pehmore
      Pehmore 23 January 2014 15: 09
      0
      All who knew how to fight were transplanted before the war, and this is the same war, a reconnaissance war. Honor and praise to the soldiers, not washed away the shame that created such a rout the beginning. They write about Zhukov, well, he’s not the only one who fought, if everyone went to their favorites and got carte blanche then there would be more heroes of the generals. History is still a politician, who will be appointed the one and the hero. Here about such fights and it’s necessary to write where the generals they threw the Finnish army with their hats, ruined entire divisions, and they are considered heroes, they think that the war was won by intelligence and strategy. They shot the division command, well, not skillful actions, but who analyzed these actions? drove the southern division to the Arctic Circle, a strategy? Division commander how long is the position? Who knows? we are able to create and overcome difficulties best of all, but we do not know how to learn from mistakes and do not want, why? Because no one is saving the soldiers, no one is not saving the Fatherland, no one is saving now. Honor and glory to all our soldiers who died in all wars
  18. ed65b
    ed65b 23 January 2014 14: 43
    +2
    soldier without warm clothes at -40. Without food? Of course it will be broken and captivated. And the Finns had to be cut to the root, at least for the death of thousands of Red Army men. Russian history does not teach anything. A good enemy is a dead enemy. The same is true for pooyak. Moreover, a good reason is war.
    1. Volkhov
      Volkhov 23 January 2014 15: 10
      0
      And who is the enemy now?
      1. smile
        smile 23 January 2014 15: 42
        +1
        Volkhov
        You better tell who your enemy is - it is much more interesting. :)))
        1. Volkhov
          Volkhov 23 January 2014 16: 40
          +2
          Quote: smile
          who your enemy is -

          Enemies around - the population exterminates each other privately, the diasporas - in the national, the Russian government - according to the plans of the world government and in military adventures, Venusians hope for global genocide during the Flood, and the Grays hope to finish off comets who have accidentally survived.
          The strategic plan is to protect yourself from the Grays http://sinteh.info/?p=1960 and reconcile with the rest for a period of disaster and protection from Grays. While this thought does not pass to the masses, cannibalism.
          1. smile
            smile 23 January 2014 19: 06
            +1
            Volkhov
            Thank you, you are always inimitable! I have no words...:)))
            Yeah, it’s hard to live - on the one hand the Gray comets are aiming at us, on the other hand the Venusians are driving a wave - Then they are preparing ..... it looks like a couple is learning to swim and build an anti-missile bunker ...
            And your link, unfortunately, does not open ... probably these are the machinations of Martian saboteurs .....
            1. Trapperxnumx
              Trapperxnumx 24 January 2014 08: 55
              +1
              Quote: smile
              it looks like the couple is learning to swim and build a rocket launcher on the site ...

              Do not forget - the bunker should be floating))))
          2. lelik613
            lelik613 24 January 2014 07: 48
            0
            This is ours! Respect
    2. smile
      smile 23 January 2014 15: 47
      +7
      ed65b
      We never suited anyone for the genocide and never suited anyone - we have a different mentality than the rest of Europeans and Americans. And if we lose our national character and begin to do the same as the Americans with the Nazis, we will simply cease to be Russian. Such statements are unacceptable.
  19. moremansf
    moremansf 23 January 2014 15: 29
    +3
    Unfortunately, there were no less fools after many years ... we recall the New Year's storming of Grozny ... the Maikop brigade !!! Meaningless losses for the sake of power !!!!
  20. aud13
    aud13 23 January 2014 16: 40
    0
    Quote: Snoop
    As for the snipers, the Germans do not agree. Yes, they were with them, but as they say grossly they were not prepared. In the West, all the military felt that sniping was a relic of a trench warfare. But the Hans drew attention to the need for snipers only when they encountered tactics of sniper terror (not my term, the term of Western historians and weapons experts) from the side of the Red Army and the NKVD in 41.

    I recently read a book written by one German sniper (unfortunately I did not remember either his last name or the name of the book). So he in this book describes how he became a sniper after training at a school of snipers. Moreover, this was long before the start of the war with the USSR. Judging by his book, it turns out that snipers in the German army have been at least since the capture of Czechoslovakia. At the same time, they were entrusted with the duty of shooting the most important targets: - commanders, artillery gunners, machine gunners, enemy snipers and then ordinary soldiers.
    And as for the article, if you say, it is certainly a pity that there was an opportunity to re-look at the state of the army, the training of personnel and commanders and correct mistakes, but this was not fully done. As a result, 41 received a difficult situation at the front.
  21. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 23 January 2014 17: 23
    +1
    Once, my daughter came to me and said: "Dad, we are sent to the Finnish camp for the summer, we will study Finnish and English in depth there. Let go, let me go, please!" I must say that one of my daughters goes to school with in-depth study of the Finnish language. So I typed, right in front of her in google, the request "Finnish camps for children" and guess what I got in the first link "highlighted"? Correctly-children's concentration camps arranged by the Finns for Russian children during the Second World War. I had to conduct a "lekbez", on this occasion, the child was in shock. By the way, in Helsinki, in the museum of the armed forces, there is an excellent exposition on the theme of the "winter and" long "war as they call the war with the USSR in 1939-1945. , always and constantly fought against the Russian "occupation." The "Swedish" period - when the Finns, in general, were not considered people, they hunted them like wild animals, it is presented there somehow casually, like - the Swedes came and did not have time to do anything good "to do it, and the Russian barbarians knocked out and enslaved the unfortunate Finns. So it went, like a struggle for freedom, at first there were some bandits who, like" Robin Hoods "were, then" sent Cossacks "who tried to raise an uprising during World War I. And of course the Russian barbarians who during the "long war" bombed the "unfortunate" Helsinki and killed many civilians - a portrait of such an innocently murdered girl flaunts there in a prominent place. a model of a bomb shelter to the sound of a Russian bomb raid. When I am there, I constantly communicate with the uncle-curator of the museum, by the way, as a normal, not stupid person, I constantly point out to him "bloopers" and gross inconsistencies in the exposition, such as a huge map hung there, allegedly captured somewhere and on which, allegedly "insidious" plans for the Russian command to plan the seizure and occupation of all of Finland: on this map, in general, "arrows" indicate some kind of rubbish in general and give the names of parts of the USSR in the form of provinces. It is clear that some of the White Guard emigrants "sculpted" this handicraft in a hurry, not taking into account the transformations that took place in the USSR during the years of Soviet Power. Well, I constantly give him "as a gift" high-quality photographs of the corpses of Soviet children, adult victims of the siege of Leningrad, which the "friends" Finns carried out together with the Germans. He frowns, but accepts them and even thanks them, and says that he understands everything perfectly, but at work he is obliged to express and publicize the "official" version of those events.
  22. ed65b
    ed65b 23 January 2014 18: 07
    0
    You can certainly blame the failure of the commanders, but what options did they have? Do not go into battle? Shoot the lower commanders and not touch the top directly responsible for the failure to supply primarily warm clothing and food.
    1. Astartes
      Astartes 23 January 2014 18: 42
      +3
      The commanders should have options, in the winter you need to not just warm and dress, you can see from the photographs that the soldiers in their overcoats were also in quilted jackets, and the sprinkled bread shows that there was food. And people froze mainly at night because of the lack of shelters, normal places to sleep. And any division commander may well attend to this if desired. And the division’s leadership and not the general headquarters are also responsible for supplying and training soldiers. And after the first attacks, any person begins to think what is wrong and where I am mistaken, and these divisional officers seemed to see nothing ... In general, they were shot in vain to hang such people.
  23. EvilLion
    EvilLion 23 January 2014 18: 54
    +1
    In total, Finnish troops lost around 800 people near Suomussalmi,


    Don’t forget to ascribe a toe, otherwise it’s ridiculously simple. Apparently they didn’t shoot at the Finns at all, especially since the Soviet troops did not complain about the lack of heavy weapons. In all other cases, when the Soviet troops were quite active, they could not cope with them with a handful of skiers.
  24. iakc
    23 January 2014 19: 10
    0
    Quote: Drop
    I was pleased to publish an article on the BBK defense in the VO when, on 9 December 1941, the Finnish armored battalion was washed away into Lake Onega. The loss of the Finns then amounted to 2 thousand people. This and other events then allowed to stabilize the Karelian Front until the 1944 year.


    Hello, can you give a link to this material?
    1. drop
      drop 24 January 2014 08: 59
      +1
      Alexey, I personally have visited all the places about which I write novels, stories, stories and articles in my free time. What you are asking is "Stop the enemy with a platinum explosion." Article in "VO" for 2013. This is an excerpt from my novel Ice Wall. Life so happened that at the age of 19 he was already a lieutenant. Then work in science - Chief Designer of AME systems, which are still in service. Participation in the Egyptian company, in Angola and support of operations in Afghanistan for the Su-24 at the final stage. Best regards.
      1. creak
        creak 24 January 2014 11: 20
        0
        A drop

        Could you please clarify about participation in the "Egyptian company" - which one and in the capacity of whom?
        1. drop
          drop 24 January 2014 12: 52
          +1
          Dear Victor, I have no right to specify, but you can read my article in "VO" - "Creative business trip". An essay “We were preparing for war” was published on the Internet under my name.
        2. drop
          drop 24 January 2014 12: 52
          +1
          Dear Victor, I have no right to specify, but you can read my article in "VO" - "Creative business trip". An essay “We were preparing for war” was published on the Internet under my name.
          1. creak
            creak 24 January 2014 14: 14
            0
            Dear Yuri Grigoryevich!

            I hope that the reluctance to clarify is not related to secrecy issues - the participation of Soviet troops in the hostilities in Egypt has long been declassified, there is even a special site dedicated to this topic. I read your essay and I think you should not have argued that our Egyptians did not find anything. As a direct participant in those events (a group of military advisers in the Suez Canal zone of 1969-72), I dare to say that this is not so and that our advisers still taught the Arabs something, sometimes at the cost of our own lives, otherwise there would be no Doomsday war. .. Based on what you reflected in your essay, in the troops that fought, you were raids, and this is not enough to judge competently enough that our advisers could and did not (in the Suez Canal zone), namely, there was a military training. It was there that the war was preparing and the troops learned to fight ... In any case, the three years spent there give me the right to say that ... Therefore, with all due respect to your merits in the field of aviation, you should not make such bold statements about the area in which you to put it mildly, not a specialist, ...
            1. drop
              drop 24 January 2014 15: 13
              0
              Dear Victor, you are right. I talked about our activities, of course, did not concern the work of air defense systems, armored groups and other areas of cooperation. Sincerely.
            2. drop
              drop 24 January 2014 15: 13
              0
              Dear Victor, you are right. I talked about our activities, of course, did not concern the work of air defense systems, armored groups and other areas of cooperation. Sincerely.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  25. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 23 January 2014 19: 55
    +1
    Duc, the Finns themselves call the Second World War, "the continuation war."
  26. Robert Nevsky
    Robert Nevsky 23 January 2014 21: 09
    0
    YOUR MOTHER IS FINNISH !! SWINE FINI !!
  27. vkrav
    vkrav 24 January 2014 04: 14
    -1
    For some reason, when describing the events of the Finnish and Great Patriotic War, the fact that the one-man command in the Red Army was introduced only after the abandonment of Sevastopol was gracefully omitted ... And it is not at all customary to mention the role of the GPU of the Red Army in these events. to fight the merry bunch of GPU + NKVD. The military simply were deprived of any initiative and were forced to literally execute orders from above.
    1. smile
      smile 24 January 2014 13: 21
      -1
      vkrav
      The article does not write about this, because it is not true. And the military, if you did not know, always literally carry out orders from above. Otherwise, they put it out against the wall - always and in all countries.
      By the way, could you ask a little about the abbreviations. which are you juggling here? The GPU was organizationally part of the NKVD, what could be the link here? :)))
      Tales that enkavedeshniki climbed into the command of hostilities leave for the weak-minded, victims of the exam and MMM :))) you generally do not understand the subject ... but comment ... regrettably.
      1. vkrav
        vkrav 24 January 2014 22: 35
        0
        Have you ever wondered what caused the complete structural reorganization of the Red Army in the most difficult period of the war - up to the change in the system of ranks and insignia according to the so unloved "tsarist" model? So think! And shove your witty remarks to yourself - well, not small, figure out for yourself where. And at the same time read about the structure that the leva mehlis loved so much to lead and its significance and influence in the period after 37 years. Maybe something will clear up in your mind.
  28. Prometey
    Prometey 24 January 2014 08: 31
    0
    To the author + interesting material. The Finnish War is one of the most embarrassing pages of Soviet history and an illustrative example of what it means to fight by number, not skill, which for our army was almost always, unfortunately, the rule, and not the exception.
  29. Landwarrior
    Landwarrior 24 January 2014 09: 51
    +1
    Well, what can I say ... Nobody is safe from mistakes. The Red Army only learned to fight, especially in such conditions.
    Was there an alternative? She was trying to negotiate further with the dates, and eventually get the second ring of the blockade of Leningrad in 1941. hi
    The mistakes that were made in 1939-40 were analyzed and conclusions were drawn. People, soldiers, of course, feel sorry, but otherwise it was simply impossible. and winners are not judged hi
    1. Prometey
      Prometey 24 January 2014 18: 09
      0
      Landwarrior
      Yes, you are right - the soldier is very sorry. Well, something painfully often our army learned to fight on their own bloody mistakes.
      There would be more such articles, written in a competent, analytical language, without the "heady" patriotism.
  30. vladimir VR
    vladimir VR 24 January 2014 14: 21
    +1
    The blessed memory of the fallen.
  31. ENOTE
    ENOTE 24 January 2014 23: 50
    +2
    I was always amazed: well, weren't fools able to agree amicably on the bases and border on one and the other. And in St. Petersburg, so many of the blockade would not have died. And in general they would not be allies of Hitler.
    And it all began with Lenin - Finnish nationalists conspired with the leader (he didn’t feed mosquitoes all summer during the Spill) and threw off the provisional government in 17. And the Finns themselves swore allegiance to the King, and not to the interim government. And there was no case of breaking the word. But to these villains and reds they were not given to themselves. This, I believe, is the reason for all this disgrace. Until now, they are grateful to the King for their liberation. And love for the Swedish masters is still a type of Stockholm victim syndrome. They then did not count as people, but they are so used to it ...
    By the way, the old Russian - Swedish border went even more west than now - along the Savonlinna - Kotka line. Even Suvorov reconstructed the fortress in Savonlinna!
    1. iakc
      25 January 2014 17: 59
      0
      Quote: ENOTE
      I was always amazed: well, weren't fools able to agree amicably on the bases and border on one and the other. And in St. Petersburg, so many of the blockade would not have died. And in general they would not be allies of Hitler.

      The Finns were not going to agree. They collaborated with Hitler before the start of the Winter War. In particular, back in the summer of 1939, they made reconnaissance flights over Karelia, Leningrad, Kronstadt with the aim of photographing the Soviet territories. The German General Staff provided them with photographic equipment, under what conditions, one can only guess ...
  32. nikcris
    nikcris 25 January 2014 18: 18
    0
    Quote: smile
    Nu daaaa
    Greetings!
    Let's start with the fact that Finland, from the moment of its formation with the help of states hostile to Russia, is a state aimed at an aggressive coalition war against Russia. Since coming to power, Mannerheim and the entire Finnish elite have not concealed that Finland’s goal is to capture Russian territories and increase Finland by about three times ... at our expense. These comrades never hid their pathological Russophobia - Mannerheim even the White Guards, who helped the Germans and White Finns destroy the hundred thousandth army of the Red Finns, as a sign of gratitude, shot or planted in concentration camps who could not escape.

    If we didn’t give them the tough and pushed the border, albeit at an initially expensive price, I’m not sure that the Finnish-German troops could stop where they stopped. We could lose Murmansk, the Finns could more effectively starve people in St. Petersburg .... by the way, far from everywhere they stopped at the old border - Karelia was captured by Finnish-German troops and we foiled plans to force the Belomorkanal.
    By the way, maybe someone does not remember - in all the occupied territories the Finns immediately drove the entire Russian population into concentration camps or, as a variety, shot them. Without exception. Of those who did not manage to evacuate, about 10 percent of the civilian population escaped a similar fate. Think about these numbers. Even the Nazis did not do that - they postponed the implementation of the OST plan until later. The Finns were not shy. It is probably symbolic that Shutskor is translated from Swedish as "security detachments" .. and here the Finns were ahead of their Nazi accomplices ...
    Well, well, yeah, like it? Maybe we should act like the Finns, returning the lands illegally torn away in the 20s, on which the artificial state of Estonia appeared? And what, the Finnish guys left 10 percent of the local population - is this normal, in your opinion? And this is not a link to a new place of residence - deportation, this is a concentration camp! Now, when you condemn the inhumanity of the Finns, who implemented the OST plan earlier than the Germans, then I will believe in your objectivity and pay attention to dissatisfaction with the deportation of the Baltic states ...

    And all that I said is a historical fact that I can prove even now.

    Okay. do not be offended. for some reason I got angry with you here :))) ... by the way, I just remembered that I had an unanswered letter — forgive me — I forgot.
    And you again have 3 turtles ... now, damn it :))) it is worth turning away - and again you are three times immortal ... :)))

    You wrote everything absolutely correctly. That's why dates live by sticking their tail in the ass. And normal people don’t annoy that their exit to the Arctic is closed by Stalin. And in general, a lot of things are closed ... But we have already been allowing them to develop our cultural cultures, and other Santa Claus reindeer teams for many years.
  33. Glagol
    Glagol 25 January 2014 18: 57
    0
    Only 2 comments:
    The Finnish Red Army campaign is an example of how not to fight at all times.
    The Finns were simply bombarded with corpses of Soviet fighters, and they don’t
    Weathered.
    As for the Finns, the author of the article most likely does not know them well. Will be
    Opportunity - they will come to us and slaughter everyone. They hate us.
    And they do not come only because they know about the surrender. Justice
    For the sake of note - They arranged life for themselves, Finland is one of
    The most developed states.
    1. iakc
      25 January 2014 21: 29
      0
      I know Finns and often communicate with them. Russophobic moods are especially annoying, for example, such:
      http://vk.com/club56116256
      http://vk.com/id218643270
  34. Marat
    Marat 25 January 2014 20: 45
    0
    Well, nothing in Sochi, I hope we pour devils to the Finns. laughing
  35. Finist
    Finist 29 January 2014 19: 30
    0
    Sad story...