Military Review

What is the reason for such a pitiable demographic state of the Russian people? Part of 2

134
What is the reason for such a pitiable demographic state of the Russian people? Part of 2

Recent ones news from the "demographic front" is not encouraging. So, the news came that the indigenous population of Belarus continues to die out. On 1 in November 2013, the population of the Republic of Belarus was 9 million 467,2 thousand people. This was announced by the National Statistical Committee of the Republic. In January-October, 2013 was born in Belarus 99 499 children died - 105 531 people. As a result, the number of deaths in the republic exceeded the number of births by 6,1%. Last year the situation was worse: in January-October, 2012, the number of deaths exceeded the number of births by 9,6%. According to official data, a decrease in the population was recorded in the Grodno, Gomel, Mogilyov, Vitebsk and Minsk regions, in almost all Belarusian regions (The indigenous population of Belarus is dying out).


However, the population decline did not occur, since the migration increase compensated for the natural population decline. Migration growth in January-October was 2013. 9 428 people, which ensured an increase in the population of the Republic of Belarus by 3,4 thousand people, Belstat reports. Moreover, the migration increase increased compared to the same period of 2012 of the year by 2 398 people (34,1%). In addition, there was an outflow of qualified labor abroad, mainly to Russia. The Belarusian authorities switched to the policy of replacing labor reserves with migrant workers from the Central Asian republics, as well as from the DPRK and other foreign countries. Along with negative trends, there are also positive ones: the number of registered marriages has increased (15,5%), the number of divorces has decreased (by 11,4%). Thus, the demographic picture in Belarus is similar to the Russian one: the indigenous population continues to die out, it is being replaced by other ethnic elements.

Loss of moral values

Those researchers, who believe that urbanization is not the main cause of the extinction of the white race, emphasize the loss of moral values. Only a blind man does not see that Western Europe has come off strongly from its Christian roots. Liberal and post-liberal values ​​have replaced people with faith in God. The cult of money and consumption are the main Western values. Now they dominate both in the East and in Russia, although they have not won a complete victory.

Moral degradation of society leads immediately to several serious consequences. Here and indifferent attitude to the unborn child, in which they do not see the person, the availability of abortions, their propaganda, the aggressive introduction of all kinds of contraceptives, and “consumption” (unrestrained consumption of goods for the sake of consumption), and the destruction of the family, family values, etc.

One of the surrogates of a healthy psyche is the so-called. consumption, which aggressively forms a consumer society. Self-esteem of a person in such a society depends on how much he consumed, the more he used, he bought, the higher his satisfaction with life, his sense of self-importance. The first such system created in the West. The United States became the personification of consumption: there they actively developed the infrastructure that led to the killing of time through “shopping”, the massive issuance of consumer loans, the overdeveloped sphere of goods and services, and other pursuit of pleasure. Professional sport is also included in this system, where a small number of athletes are turned into idols for the crowd, and they are made of “stars”. And the bulk of the population consumes the spectacle and a whole bunch of related products, most often not needed for a normal life. Huge masses of people kill time watching sports programs, visit stadiums, absorb tons of junk food and beverages, including drug addicts (beer, etc.). And this instead of making regular physical culture a part of one’s life and the life of one’s children. The "divorce" of the crowd has been known since ancient times: "Bread and circuses." At present, Western bosses have reached almost the pinnacle of art in manipulating the population. People pay for the illusion of happiness with their hopes, energy and money.

A great example of consumption is the stampede and mass brawls in the United States during the Christmas sales season. People are ready to push and beat each other for things. The brutality has reached such a stage that the few flunks are not afraid of the authorities. For example, in New York, the police even had to arrest several people in one of the shopping centers of the Walmart network to prevent a massacre. In California, in the city of San Bernardo, a policeman was beaten up, who separated the fighting men. In New Jersey, police had to use pepper spray to stop a fight. In Chicago, an enraged shopper hit a policeman in a car. His comrades opened fire and wounded one man. In Las Vegas, in the parking lot of a supermarket, a fight began with shooting from behind the TV (In the US, marked the beginning of sales crush, mass brawls and protests).

The main channels through which consumer stereotypes are introduced are TV and advertising. The most primitive gregarious, sexual instincts are being imposed on man, actually turning him into a subhuman. Consumers of the middle class and the poor strata of society imitate the behavior of the rich, who with the help of expensive things demonstrate their importance. Practically this animal behavior. Suffice it to recall the course of biology.

In principle, a person is distinguished from an animal by understanding the cause-and-effect relationships, ethics are built on this. The modern consumer society indulges precisely the animal part of the human psyche, moreover, it specifically forms the animal structure of the psyche. Consumer society deals a powerful blow to the reproduction of themselves. After all, children so interfere with consumption!

It is necessary to abandon the mass of "necessary" things, cut down their own consumption, become more mature, more responsible. Give up a lot of pleasure: after all, hedonism goes hand in hand with consumption. Often, you can see a completely “packed” family, with either no children, or just one child. But these people have the time and money for a new car or a purebred dog that consumes at the level of children from ordinary families. The reasoning about the lack of funds is truly ridiculous when those who uphold this opinion have the latest model phone or laptop in their hands, when more money is spent on a car per year than on the child’s annual maintenance ...

The reasoning on the topic is popular: they say, we would have had a couple of children if the state provided us, as the state does in the United States or somewhere in Western Europe. This refers to the popular cinematic image, when the family has an apartment, a suburban house, several cars, etc.

But this is a mythical image. First, in the West only the middle class lived in this way, when it was necessary for them to maintain a good life against the background of the USSR, so that there was no desire to organize a revolution. After the collapse, this model began to turn off. The middle class in the West is rapidly shrinking, there remain the rich and the poor. Secondly, the planet cannot provide resources for such a life for all. The race of consumption kills the biosphere and humanity with it. Third, not those who deserve it claim a high level of consumption - scientists, designers, test pilots, cosmonauts - but young people who have no qualifications, “koyakers”, people who do not want to work and study, but dream about luxury life.

By the way, it is consumerism that completely negates the view that the main reason for the deplorable demography in the West, in Russia and Japan, is the lack of funds. The poorest countries in Asia and Africa lack of cash does not prevent the population from growing rapidly. And often the state does not support the population at all. Poverty did not interfere with the continuation of its clan and the peasants in the Russian Empire. War, a half-starved existence, the lack of basic necessities did not prevent Stalin’s USSR from increasing its population. The current West, Russia and Japan are a zone of the “golden billion”, in which the level of consumption is much higher than that of the rest 6 billion people. Latin Americans, Africans and Asians consume much less goods, food, energy, resources per capita (except for the “elite” class) than residents of the “golden billion”. However, the population of Central and South America, Africa and Asia is rapidly increasing. And Europe, Russia (minus migration growth) and Japan are dying out. Satiety, a relatively high level of consumption are not incentives for fertility. An individual and an individual family in a consumer society are interested in low childbearing in order to ensure a high level of consumption and comfort. For them, the main motives are consumption, comfort, and pleasures (hedonism bordering on Satanism), not motives to bear children.

Consumption (philistinism) began to develop in the post-Stalinist USSR. However, the most ugly and destructive forms of consumption, VIP consumption and consumption of the middle and poor strata of the population have already developed in the Russian Federation. The Soviet bourgeois, who were deceptively deceived, depriving them of a great power, the best army, science and education in the world, finally got to the simple pleasures of a consumer society. The new generations, the Pepsi and Next generations, are in some ways even worse, so they do not have the restraining programs and the level of education, the breadth of their horizons, which the Soviet man had. Russia was trapped in consumption.

The consumer society creates a vicious circle that leads post-industrial societies to degeneration, loss of cultural and civilizational identity. The population in such a society is trying to maintain at the expense of low mortality, advances in medicine and an increase in the number of migrants who fill niches in the unskilled labor market. However, firstly, this leads to the growth of genetic marriage from generation to generation. In society, more attention and resources are devoted to saving the hopelessly sick, rather than growing up mentally and physically healthy new generations. Secondly, the increase in the number of outsiders leads to the erosion of national identity, the growth of conflict within the society. In the long run, the influx of migrants leads to conflict over the redistribution of livelihoods, types of employment and habitat.

Kosovo is a good example: Albanian settlers seized it from the Serbs. They took away the means of life support, types of employment and habitat. This is our future, if only we allow the continuation of mass migration and do not attend to the survival of the nation. It must be said that at the level of instincts, Serbs feel that the situation may repeat in other areas of Serbia and resist the new influx of foreigners. So, the decision of Belgrade to place on the territory of settlements of immigrants who did not have enough space in specialized reception centers met with serious resistance of ordinary people (Serbs have rebelled against the influx of refugees). In order to prevent the influx of migrants, the Serbs are blocking the roads to their villages with the help of barricades, a harness designed for foreigners. So the local Serbian population counteracts the movement of refugees from the countries of the Middle East, Africa and Central Asia to the villages. According to the press, Serbia, like other European countries, is experiencing an unprecedented influx of migrants from Asia and Africa. Serbia is located on the Balkan Peninsula, which is one of the main routes of migration to the EU countries.

In addition, the consumer society dramatically worsens the defensive potential of the state. Armies turn into police-punitive corps or gala-demonstration units incapable of real war. In a family with one or two children, parents try to protect their sons from the “horrors of service”, and during the war the army’s rejection grows in order. Several dozens of dead cause panic, immerses society in a trance, the masses demand peace at any cost (that is, they are even ready to betray national interests). Although in a healthy society, the death of warriors is perceived not only as grief, inevitable in war, but also as a reason for pride for the heroes, inner satisfaction with the fact that family and society brought up real fighters.

Consumer-type society is becoming Russia step by step. All humanistic chatter about the intrinsic value of human life, the need for labor of migrant workers, the absence of civilization and national conflicts and the existence of only domestic motives in the end only confirms the consumer society, leads to the degeneration of Russian civilization.

To be continued ...
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Articles from this series:
What is the reason for such a deplorable demographic condition of the Russian people??
What is the reason for such a pitiable demographic state of the Russian people? Part of 2
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  1. svskor80
    svskor80 3 December 2013 08: 30 New
    18
    The present West, Russia and Japan are the zone of the “golden billion”, in which the level of consumption is much higher than that of the remaining 6 billion people.


    There is a lot in the article with which one can agree, but all the same, Russia can not be attributed to the "golden billion". Rather, between the "golden billion" and an even poorer population.
    1. b0bi
      b0bi 3 December 2013 10: 21 New
      16
      The article says everything correctly, but this is not all and not the main reasons. People are programmed to die out from early childhood through the media - television, magazines, the Internet, instilling abnormal behavior and early adulthood.

      According to the theory of social modeling, both children and adults acquire attitudes, master emotional reactions and new types of behavior by copying television and movie heroes. The task of social modeling is to create, using the media, a person with predetermined standards of behavior.
      How mechanisms that change the fate of your children are triggered

      I don’t have a TV at home, on the Internet children visit only websites that can be visited, only Soviet cartoons are allowed to watch ... But there is one important point that I can’t influence - school and the street. This is my biggest headache. I see how many other children are corrupted and disfigured, and I can not exclude their influence on my children :(
      1. fisherman
        fisherman 3 December 2013 11: 03 New
        +6
        I see how many other children are corrupted and disfigured, and I can not exclude their influence on my children :(


        can

        those whose attention is occupied by the Kremlin and the golden calf (or temporary workers, for whom "here and now" is in the first place) cannot, but you can

        firstly: always be keenly interested in those issues that concern your children, whether it be cartoons, conversations and interests of school friends, hobbies, books, sports and more

        second: try to find time for a joint discussion of these situations (be it an event or just the cover of a book), developing your child’s critical beginning to everything bright (loud, artistic, artificial)

        the method is very simple - this is a usual banter, i.e. the very jokes that are very common among friends, your child will always be happy to share all the children's secrets with you, he and his friends will teach his sarcastic attitude to everything superficial, alien, corrupting

        also with grandchildren :) you will help children

        in the movie "For Family Circumstances" (1977) the idea that young families need to live with their grandparents slipped in a few frames, and that was wisdom

        but "society was already pregnant with changes"
      2. Nevsky_ZU
        Nevsky_ZU 3 December 2013 12: 34 New
        +1
        b0bi

        . which I cannot influence - the school ... I see how much other children are corrupted and disfigured, and I cannot exclude their influence on my children :(

        You can:

        One small fact. Kurginyan supporters are planning, or rather are already preparing to implement the concept "Charter School", "Charter Education". This is for those who do not want experiments with their child in the field of sex education and other pedagogical methods and techniques of the Ministry of Education in a secondary school. This is for those who do not want the school psychologist to see the picture of your child, where the mom and you dad in the picture will be more and in the spotlight than your child, do not call the guardianship. In France, these functions are performed by Catholic schools. For the elite of the West, private schools. And S. Kurginyan proposes this on a general basis and is legally justified. Someone will say that this is a parallel world for the country. However, remember what I wrote above, namely the inability today to change the course of the state even within the framework of one political force. As they say a forced measure. Will there be success in Russia in the field of charter schools? This is what Sergey Yervandovich himself says about this:

        “... So, my dear, dear ones, the charter law: everyone has the right to the proportion of public funds allocated to the child! If two hundred, one hundred, or as many people as needed, charters collected and want to go to a school free from dirty tricks, no one has the right to interfere with them! And this is state money, so here, in charter, the principle of private, rich schools, and the principle of schools for the poor are equalized. Moreover, they have the right not only to a share relying on a child (and no one can withdraw this share from a child, no one can transfer it to the mother’s or father’s cottages) - this is given to the child to eat, to drink I had textbooks so that he would have a rest, and if his parents are still disadvantaged (in alcohol, for example), this does not mean that they cannot transfer money in this way ... ”

        But what Sergey Kurginyan says about Civil territories:

        "... We are creating a civilian territory, and on this civilian territory there will be a mass of other schools, yes, with developed programs, with a return to the Soviet – Russian tradition, with clearing all of this from moral evil, with such a suppression of attempts to shove children drugs and other that everyone will be frightened and everyone will move away from these schools, very far. Then civil action and civil protest will be united.
        We do not delegate to the citizens everything. We perfectly understand the functions of the state, we sacredly honor the principle of a great centralized state and territorial integrity, we perfectly understand what a great army is, everything like that, we perfectly understand what a frame structure is, but if you need it to be in a reasonable condition even 5 years, we CAN'T put an entire generation in the hands of hidden or explicit juveniles for these 5 years. And also all the others. And bring yourself to protest .... "

        Source: http://saboy.ru/eot/kurginyan/free-territory-for-civil-society.html

        http://topwar.ru/29012-sergey-kurginyan-na-puti-k-sssr-mezhdu-kaplyami-liberalno
        go-dozhdya.html
        1. fisherman
          fisherman 3 December 2013 16: 44 New
          +5
          I quote myself:

          how is it? the same one that began to penetrate the broad working masses in the 60s and 70s of the last century, then they decided to lead this discontent, take control, calling it "perestroika and acceleration" (remember how we all accelerated), then this pregnancy in the West was called a harmonious concept: "wind of change" and so on

          Belarus is a beautiful country, there are few thieves, even very few

          there is only one small problem: namely, part of the population does not like domestic goods and services, but loves the western way of life

          it should be noted that the number of these people is such that from time to time the authorities have to drown their national currency against the damned dollar, so they limit the increasingly increasing appetites of these strange people

          we have these strange people began to appear in the 60s, called them speculators, waiters, dudes, farmers, and the like

          so this problem is a little deeper than burials, it is not surprising that in China these strange people continue to "resurrect", they are being shot and shot, and they are resurrected and resurrected

          as for closed societies (Old Believer communities, for example, or Soviet society), they have one big advantage:

          the most gullible part of society (that is, children and adolescents) are rigidly protected from pernicious influence from the outside, since there is absolutely no critical beginning in their heads ("they behave like suckers to any nonsense, even d..e..b..il. .b ..y..th set of phrases ")

          and one big drawback (arising precisely from the big advantage), namely: over time, the whole society horizontally (from Kaliningrad to Chukotka) and vertically (from the cook to the Secretary General) become naive and trusting, like ...

          like the same suckers, for examples, I refer to the activities of political and economic clowns: Khrushchev and Yeltsin

          as examples, you can also use the massive schizophrenia that swept our country in the early 90s

          MASS

          this is when our company sold in the bud for bright western packaging, without even bothering to read the instructions

          this is called vaccination; in closed societies it cannot be obtained

          and you need to shoot, this is my private (subjective) opinion

          although I understand perfectly well that this is not only an insufficient condition (necessary and sufficient, in other words, a vector and the length of a vector), but it is not even necessary :)

          sinful, but I have my own weaknesses for these

          "people" :)
      3. shpuntik
        shpuntik 3 December 2013 12: 36 New
        +2
        I don’t have a TV at home, on the Internet children visit only websites that can be visited, only Soviet cartoons are allowed to watch ... But there is one important point that I can’t influence - school and the street. This is my biggest headache.


        The situation in the state is unlikely to improve in the near future. I see a way out only in the creation of colleges, possibly paid. In some schools, parents jointly influenced the director, changed the school curriculum. This mainly concerned the "foundations of Orthodox culture", it is usually pushed in.
        Here is a similar video about advertising. I once heard that in Germany they made a TV, which warns about advertising, so that you can switch to another channel. So it’s kind of banned smile .
      4. MahsusNazar
        MahsusNazar 3 December 2013 20: 35 New
        +3
        You can not limit a person from social. crazy, but I share your concern, the father of four.
        However, I believe that the way is, not isolation, but "inoculation" from the current infection (without quotes)
        those. critical thinking, the ability to distinguish truth from lies
      5. Shur
        Shur 3 December 2013 21: 48 New
        +2
        The way out suggests itself - you need to live as a community in the village. All their own, all family in essence.
        1. smersh70
          smersh70 3 December 2013 23: 10 New
          +2
          Quote: Shur
          you need to live a community in a village.

          .maybe in the city..but you need to turn off the light .. wassat and so that there was more time to sleep, because before there was no Internet .. television ... classmates .. samoletikov ... and everyone was busy with their conjugal duties .. and therefore there were more children in families ... laughing
          1. Shur
            Shur 4 December 2013 00: 03 New
            +2
            In the community, if you wish, you can create your own broadcasting, that's not the point, but what will be passed on to the children (daughters). Education will be. "Old Slavonic form - pitѣti;
            Old Indian - pitúṣ (food);
            in Serbo-Croatian - pītati, pītām (nourish);
            in Slovenian - pítati, рȋtаm (feed);
            in Czech - pitat (feed, nourish). Associated with alternating vowels with pestuns.
            is related to Lithuanian - piẽtūs (lunch). "What will we feed. I propose to accept this way" with the faithful fatherly word to nourish. "Hence the man's business to bring up. norms of behavior ".
          2. Shur
            Shur 4 December 2013 00: 11 New
            +5
            The city is incomparably more difficult, less autonomous. Labor as a factor in the city is simply difficult, what will you do for the good, and not just for the sake of "occupation". No man begins from the earth. Who knows how to live on earth, he will not be lost. Look at the foreign communities of Old Believers, they even preserved the language as it is. They saved faith. They lived in Argentina, Brazil, but on the ground, in the village. I am not the best either, but I have to start. Somehow in 1998 I almost bent over, practically flew off, there was a critical drop in pressure, I stopped breathing for a while. When it was pumped out it was purple .. And when I came to myself, since then, even a little is rejoicing. Time just started to go faster. The closer "there", the less significant all this "material state" is.
            The main thing to leave was something in people and in life.
      6. lucidlook
        lucidlook 4 December 2013 01: 55 New
        0
        Quote: b0bi
        I see how many other children are corrupted and disfigured, and I can not exclude their influence on my children :(

        Perhaps they should be given a healthy sense of strength (in some ways even superiority) as a basis. How superb a healthy athlete over a "bruise". How excellent is a clever excellent student over a "bruise". Etc.
    2. Valery Neonov
      Valery Neonov 4 December 2013 06: 19 New
      0
      And what, Russia has ever belonged to something ... Russia is a "continent" in the world, unknown and not conquered by anyone.
    3. V. Salama
      V. Salama 4 December 2013 14: 14 New
      -1
      Quote: svskor80
      ... all the same, Russia can not be attributed to the "golden billion".

      "golden billion" thinks the territory of Russia is in the zone of "golden billion". In the "zone" the resources of Russia and technology of Japan. Therefore, one should read: “The territory of the present West, Russia and Japan is the zone of the“ golden billion ”, which may include part of the“ elite ”of these countries.
  2. makarov
    makarov 3 December 2013 08: 31 New
    +9
    The author does not see in his conclusions, or does not want to see that the main problem of demography is the problem of unsolved social conditions for the majority of the people. How can a family give birth to children (?) If it cannot feed them, clothe them, keep them warm, etc. So people are forced to artificially limit the birth of offspring based on the harsh realities of life. After all, no matter how you shout "honey", your mouth will not be sweet.
    1. fisherman
      fisherman 3 December 2013 09: 15 New
      10
      The author does not see in his conclusions, or does not want to see, that the main problem of demography is the problem of unsolved social conditions for the majority of the people. How can a family give birth to children (?),


      Often you can see a fully “packaged” family with or without children, or just one child. But such people have time and money for a new car or a thoroughbred dog, consuming at the level of children from simple families. The reasoning about the lack of funds is truly ridiculous when those who defend this opinion have the phone or laptop of the latest model in their hands, when more money is spent on a car per year than on an annual provision for a child ...
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 3 December 2013 10: 27 New
      10
      Quote: makarov
      The author does not see in his conclusions, or does not want to see, that the main problem of demography is the problem of unsolved social conditions for the majority of the people.

      Good morning, Pasha. hi The tightness of conditions does not stop the Chinese in fertility. The main reasons for degeneration are still in aggressive pseudocultural pressure, in the absence of a value scale for young people. Our generation is driven into the head that first of all you need to arrange a life for yourself, buy an apartment, a car, and then think about the child. Initially, a vicious stereotype, and in the current economic situation, it is the main cause of extinction.
      1. makarov
        makarov 3 December 2013 12: 41 New
        +3
        "Our generation is being hammered into their heads that first of all we need to arrange a life for ourselves, buy an apartment, a car, and then think about the child ..."

        And who inspire ???? External enemies ?? Maybe the Saudis? Or an evil Chechen ??? Dad and mother inspire, grandparents .... and others like close, kind and helpful people.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 3 December 2013 14: 35 New
          +4
          Quote: makarov
          And who inspire ???? External enemies ?? Maybe the Saudis? Or an evil Chechen ???

          Did you turn on the TV for a long time? Turn on Disney Russia, watch the cartoon Phineas and Ferb and you will be unpleasantly surprised. These are not grandparents clogging our children with brains, namely ENEMIES,
          1. makarov
            makarov 3 December 2013 18: 37 New
            0
            I will answer with an old anecdote. Gromyko dragged himself to Brezhnev and reported that the people were showing discontent that the corks on vodka bottles had gone without an “ear”. Brezhnev listened, shrugged his shoulders, and signed a decree that would be released with an "ear". After Gromyko left, he opened the refrigerator, took a bottle of vodka, unscrewed the cork, looked closely, and said: - And there is an eye for sherry?
            It's me that I don’t watch all kinds of Disney Rush, and my youngest child doesn’t look either. I watch the telly myself only in the news mode, but for the rest, my optical fiber comes straight into the house. I look what I want, and how much I want, for only 50 UAH. per month. about 6 dollars.
          2. Shur
            Shur 3 December 2013 22: 24 New
            +1
            They slaughter all grandmothers through serials, grandfathers on "crime film". And all, all advertising and NLP technologies.
        2. Shur
          Shur 3 December 2013 22: 22 New
          0
          They are us. We are their continuation.
    3. Shur
      Shur 3 December 2013 22: 21 New
      +1
      Of the harsh realities of life, you too will soon become very few in Ukraine. If so gentle, then look at India, the population is larger than China, everything is normal with the birth rate. For the most part, people are not exposed (extremely wealthy), but they are already striving for a consumer society. But this has not happened yet. No need to scream. we must go to the ground again. Saving life in unity, unity is a community, the community is strong. Together is easier. That very step is the most difficult, first.
  3. Ols76
    Ols76 3 December 2013 08: 48 New
    +3
    I agree that the reason for the deplorable demographic state of the Russian people is the problem of unsolved social conditions for the majority of the population.
    1. fisherman
      fisherman 3 December 2013 09: 17 New
      +5
      I agree that the reason for the deplorable demographic state of the Russian people is the problem of unsolved social conditions for the majority of the population.


      those. the same crap as in Switzerland, there is also unimportant demography due to "unresolved social conditions for the majority of the population." :)
    2. mamba
      mamba 3 December 2013 09: 53 New
      +1
      Quote: Ols76
      I agree that the reason for the deplorable demographic state of the Russian people is the problem of unsolved social conditions for the majority of the population.

      And I think that the point is different. The attitude of people to their own life and to raising children has changed. If in the fifties of the 20th century there was equality in poverty, children put on their clothes and shoes after their elders, none of their parents and grandparents, because everyone worked. Therefore, children, regardless of their number in the family, spent whole days running through the streets starting from the age of 3, and this was normal, because the neighbors had the same. But now parents cannot afford such a lifestyle, because the neighbors do not live like that. The American principle of "keep up with the Jones" is universal throughout the world. If my neighbors live in poverty and breed annually, then I will do the same. If my neighbors are middle-class, then I will strive, like them, to spend all my money on maintaining my image. Everything else will be secondary, including children, unless, of course, they become a "fashionable chip" when it is "cool" to have, for example, five children. And not necessarily their own. And if the state pays well for this, then you can even earn extra money on children. In short, being determines consciousness.
    3. realist
      realist 4 December 2013 22: 16 New
      0
      it is absolutely true, and until this question is posed, the solution of this issue becomes a priority of state policy - nothing awaits good Slavs
  4. rereture
    rereture 3 December 2013 08: 50 New
    +6
    Interestingly, is it possible to engage in "consumerism" on the mrot?
    1. fisherman
      fisherman 3 December 2013 09: 19 New
      +2
      Interestingly, is it possible to engage in "consumerism" on the mrot?

      unfortunately, this was impossible even under developed socialism :)
    2. Averias
      Averias 3 December 2013 10: 20 New
      15
      It turns out it is possible, as it is not sad. Look how many people buy the notorious iPhone with a salary of 12 thousand rubles. And most importantly, not on credit. About a loan with a salary of 12 thousand rubles, I generally keep quiet. We own (the family) our own small "candle factory" (we sew piece fur and leather goods), I myself am also a seller (I sit in the store). There are other shops nearby, there are sellers, mostly ladies. They all have iPhones, and this is with a salary of 15 thousand rubles. Although the age of 35 years, it seems, and not piss. And the saleswoman, on the contrary, killed on the spot, came to work with MakAir, whose price is about 80 thousand rubles. I bought it on credit. And only to watch "Dom-2". And constantly make my brain know what and where to press and why it doesn't work and other rubbish (I am an IT specialist as well). And you say the minimum wage.
      1. fisherman
        fisherman 3 December 2013 11: 12 New
        +1
        It turns out you can


        admit was wrong

        apparently these people were able to build their personal communism, and, surprisingly, they themselves do not suspect this :)

        and which is not surprising that they are still unhappy with everything
        1. Averias
          Averias 3 December 2013 11: 20 New
          +5
          Quote: fisherman
          and which is not surprising that they are still unhappy with everything


          This is what "kills" me the most. I ask, what are you dissatisfied with? After all, in principle, there is everything. And to Thailand (or wherever else), you fly every year (for the salary of the seller). At home, modern technology, children have computers, smartphones (although for me this is not an indicator of prosperity and happiness, but this is lyrics). The refrigerator does not get bored and "mice are not hung in it in batches". There are dachas, cars. I ask, what else do you want? In response, an indistinct grunt, a story about officials with millions in bribes, about the "prosperity" of Europe. When asked if you were there (or rather lived) in this Europe, did you see it from the inside out? They moo, then I finish off with the last argument - that bureaucrats are stealing, yes. So you seem to choke like a toad that you cannot steal so much. Offended.
          1. fisherman
            fisherman 3 December 2013 11: 49 New
            +5
            Of course, this is the same toad

            as for thieving people, God really is

            in relation to this situation there is a wonderful phrase that sounds something like this: "Children are the most complete answer of God to all questions."

            those. everyone gets what they deserve

            I don’t think it’s worth envying these crooks
            1. Averias
              Averias 3 December 2013 12: 01 New
              +4
              Quote: fisherman
              those. everyone gets what they deserve

              I don’t think it’s worth envying these crooks


              Gold words. Envy is one of the sins (although I am not distinguished by piety).
              Always lived by the principle - No need to count a penny in someone else's pocket. You yourself need to earn them, but not in any way. You don’t need to forget about your neighbors, and you cannot betray people for the sake of money. Yes, and ambition (to moderate appetites) is necessary. Living is commensurate with needs, not with absurd desires. But, alas, a lot of people think differently. For some reason, a lot of people believe that they all should all. And they, nobody and nothing. This does not happen, as practice and history show.
              1. fisherman
                fisherman 3 December 2013 12: 17 New
                +5
                the greed and cynicism of some thieving officials (especially on the ground) is just as dimensionless as our country :)

                "if you eat, so in 3 throats"

                those who slip through a sieve, for example, manage to jump west, will not be able to escape from their children, who are also very greedy, prudent and cynical

                but they say that there is no God :)
      2. rereture
        rereture 3 December 2013 14: 58 New
        +1
        Awesome salary as much as 12 tr In our area, a mole of 5 tr
      3. anip
        anip 3 December 2013 19: 19 New
        0
        Quote: Averias
        You look at how many people buy the notorious iPhone with a salary of 12 thousand rubles. And most importantly, not on credit. About the loan with a salary of 12 thousand rubles, I generally keep quiet. ... They all have iPhones, and this is with a salary of 15 thousand rubles. ... And you say the minimum wage.

        And 12 thousand - is that the minimum wage?
        And what can you buy with a salary of 12-15 thousand? You can’t buy a car or an apartment. So they buy, saving on everything, eating the cheapest, to show off, to throw dust in the eyes, they say, they are so cool, even the iPhone is.
  5. rereture
    rereture 3 December 2013 08: 54 New
    +5
    Let’s say, where will I grow children if I don’t have an apartment? On the street in a box?
    1. fisherman
      fisherman 3 December 2013 09: 24 New
      +5
      in Soviet times, they gave birth and raised in parental apartments, lived with their parents, how did they live? you can watch a movie: "For family reasons" (1977)

      pleasant viewing

      as for us military, we immediately received apartments only in distant garrisons, in the middle lane, as it were softer ... in general, we lived worse :)
      1. Prometey
        Prometey 3 December 2013 10: 52 New
        +3
        Quote: fisherman
        in Soviet times they gave birth and raised in parental apartments

        It was only in the first 2-3 years of life. After that, young families acquired their living space. Children with parents will not be able to get along on a small patch.
        1. fisherman
          fisherman 3 December 2013 11: 20 New
          +1
          already answered, if you want, then I can expand my answer: some received in 2 - 3 weeks, because time was spent only on paperwork, that is, much earlier than 2 - 3 years

          and second: I’m sure you wouldn’t agree to get an office apartment in 2 to 3 weeks, due to the area of ​​this town :)

          As for the big cities (and not the "bear corners"), the working people there received apartments "a little longer" than the 2 - 3 years of life indicated by you :)

          watch a movie: "For family reasons" or "Moscow does not believe in tears"

          pleasant browsing

          this :
          Children with parents will not be able to get along on a small patch.


          first of all start with "For family reasons"
    2. Skills
      3 December 2013 09: 35 New
      +8
      The main thing is that in itself the growth of the wealth of society, which would seem to provide an opportunity to feed more people, in reality only leads to an increase in the consumption and pleasures of potential parents. No matter how rich the society is, the motive of comfort and consumption wins the motive for childbirth. Excess child strikes at the level of consumption.

      One material social and economic stimulation of large families, socio-economic support of the birth rate, will not solve the problem. The same Western experience shows how many children are transformed into a form of income. Material and social assistance cannot be the basis of the process. Although no one says that state assistance is not needed, it is needed, but not as a basis.

      The main thing is a change in the value foundations of society. The capitalist system and consumer society lead to degeneration. A transition to a society of creation and a society of knowledge is necessary. A child in such a society is not an object of consumption and a decrease in the level of consumption of parents, but a new creator, a creator.

      At the expense of housing. In reality, this is a problem of human values ​​(a change in the "matrix" is necessary). I have a familiar young family. They lead a healthy lifestyle, the guy is a hand-to-hand combat instructor. We moved from the city to an abandoned village, that is, we received housing virtually free of charge, started an apiary, rabbits, goats, and develop the economy. Now they are expecting their second child. He earns money with seminars, trains fighters at home. Several more friends are planning to move to them, the village comes to life.
      1. Shur
        Shur 3 December 2013 22: 37 New
        +1
        THIS IS CORRECT !!! Well done! God help you.
    3. Toporkoff
      Toporkoff 3 December 2013 09: 44 New
      -6
      Let’s say, where will I grow children if I don’t have an apartment? On the street in a box?

      Have you tried to make money? quite realistically in three years of hard work (if you are not a lawyer or an economist), without vacation and very often without days off ... and you are the happy owner of a panel "odnushka".
      1. Babon
        Babon 3 December 2013 10: 10 New
        +4
        An interesting question if you live on one salary. and not to buy clothes for yourself and even eat the cheapest semi-finished products, especially since the family will not painfully understand such savings, then in 3 years, after all, it is unlikely to buy a one-room apartment. But if you try to "cut" the loot on anything, just to fill your pocket more, then it is quite possible.
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 3 December 2013 10: 35 New
        +5
        Quote: Toporkoff
        Have you tried to make money? quite real for three years of hard work

        Unreal. The price of odnushka is 1,5 lyam minimum. Z / P 20-23t.r maximum + 15 for the wife = 1,3 - 1,4 Lyama. And what are these 3 years living for? fool
        1. Toporkoff
          Toporkoff 3 December 2013 11: 01 New
          -5
          Unreal. The price of odnushka is 1,5 lyam minimum. Z / P 20-23t.r maximum + 15 for the wife = 1,3 - 1,4 Lyama. And what are these 3 years living for?

          Well, this is "who studied what" ... or do you plan to sit in one place with one salary all your life? Unfortunately there is no longer the Soviet Union, no
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 3 December 2013 11: 39 New
            +3
            Quote: Toporkoff
            Well, this is "who studied what" ... or do you plan to sit in one place with one salary all your life?

            And where do they pay more? Yesterday, one rubbed at me that in Komsomolsk-on-Amur the average salary was 42 tr And in Moscow, and even more so. What can not do without moving?
            P.S. Two higher economic education, and I work with my hands, thank God not from the priests grow.
          2. anip
            anip 3 December 2013 19: 28 New
            +3
            Quote: Toporkoff
            Well, this is "who studied what" ... or do you plan to sit in one place with one salary all your life? Unfortunately there is no longer the Soviet Union, no

            Isn't the work done in this "one place" needed? Well, let's all go into businessmen-top-managers-executives, etc. etc. But who will work in the mine, as an orderly, grow bread, educate and teach children, heal?
        2. Setrac
          Setrac 3 December 2013 18: 21 New
          +5
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Unreal. The price of odnushka is 1,5 lyam minimum. Z / P 20-23t.r maximum + 15 for the wife = 1,3 - 1,4 Lyama. And what are these 3 years living for?

          The reality is that 20 tons of rubles is a salary in the countryside, a tractor driver gets so much on our collective farm, and in the countryside a three-room house of 80-100 squares costs about 600-800 thousand rubles, which, in total, with the parent capital, is quite uplifting.
      3. Prometey
        Prometey 3 December 2013 10: 49 New
        11
        Quote: Toporkoff
        without vacation and very often without days off ... and you are the happy owner of a panel "odnushka".

        And how to eat and dress? And - if a person has to hunch back without days off and vacations for the sake of the "kennel", which we are crammed at the prices for which a person can easily buy a small house in Canada - this is some kind of wrong life. It seems to me that on your part this is just trolling.
        1. Toporkoff
          Toporkoff 3 December 2013 11: 13 New
          0
          And - if a person has to hunch back without days off and vacations for the sake of the "kennel", which they cram in us at the prices for which a person can easily buy a small house in Canada - this is some kind of wrong life. It seems to me that on your part this is just trolling.

          This is not trolling, but an example from life. And in Russia, what is a small house more expensive? A colleague lives in the Tambov region, his house (box, roof, windows) cost 800 tr, we take the same amount for finishing and the same "odnushka" comes out ...
          1. Babon
            Babon 3 December 2013 11: 16 New
            +2
            I don’t know where you got such prices, something in Ulyanovsk has an apartment of 2 lyamas. Immediately the question, and how much did it cost to fill the foundation? All I know fill only the foundation from 400 to 000 Lyamas. Well, 2 lyama is a basement made of concrete, so as not to drown in the spring.
            1. Toporkoff
              Toporkoff 3 December 2013 11: 19 New
              +1
              I don’t know where you got these prices, something in Ulyanovsk has an apartment of 2 lyamas.

              In Voronezh, too, 2 lyamas already. Now I work in Kursk, here 1.2 lama odnushka in a new building.
              1. Babon
                Babon 3 December 2013 11: 22 New
                +3
                I propose to look at the prices of apartments in Bulgaria on the Black Sea coast, I immediately felt sadly, and indeed in the Czech Republic and Slovaks, the feeling that our people are being fooled.
                1. Toporkoff
                  Toporkoff 3 December 2013 11: 33 New
                  -6
                  I propose to look at the prices of apartments in Bulgaria on the Black Sea coast, I immediately felt sadly, and indeed in the Czech Republic and Slovaks, the feeling that our people are being fooled.

                  And why didn’t they look in Somalia? there maybe even cheaper? laughing
                  1. Babon
                    Babon 3 December 2013 11: 35 New
                    +3
                    Well, in Somalia, as it were, and s.p. clearly lower than Russian, and less created comfort, looked more or less comparable countries, and tried to compare. And yet, the Russian in Somalia, both in environment and climate, will live clearly in contrast, so he did not look. And so is Belgrade, etc. where I looked a lot, just comparing prices.
                    1. Toporkoff
                      Toporkoff 3 December 2013 11: 42 New
                      0
                      And what will you do in Bulgaria? A colleague sells 4 rooms in Chisinau. For 2 years now he has been living and working in Russia, but he cannot sell an apartment, because there is no work there and people do not have money.
                      1. Babon
                        Babon 3 December 2013 11: 44 New
                        0
                        And I have a familiar Gagauz, just about to buy an apartment next year, well, he will most likely buy in Gagauzia, well, I’ll ask him, maybe Chisinau will suit him too.
                  2. Shur
                    Shur 3 December 2013 22: 44 New
                    0
                    There are houses in Somalia wassat
              2. Babon
                Babon 3 December 2013 11: 22 New
                0
                New buildings are also different, prices are very much dependent on the landscaping of the area. And in Moscow, I looked, also from HOA services, I looked somehow I got 6.5 Lyamov, well, I think the norms are, only the rent is 12 per month, it’s for the protection of the territory, cleaning, and it’s somehow more expensive to take out the garbage from them, in general, this option does not roll, but sometimes more expensive.
                1. alone
                  alone 3 December 2013 21: 21 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Babon
                  and somehow they’re more expensive to take out the garbage,


                  probably the trash is being taken to the Bentley. what
                  1. Babon
                    Babon 4 December 2013 11: 21 New
                    0
                    Here is the video, however, now they have covered up such impudence, but now they are grabbing it.
          2. Shur
            Shur 3 December 2013 22: 43 New
            +3
            We do everything ourselves with friends and everything is lifting. We make the community even more accessible. They used to live like that .. There were 10 children in the family. Famine lovers organized a famine .. they mixed up the community and the commune.
      4. Babon
        Babon 3 December 2013 11: 00 New
        +2
        Maybe they wrote about more real things? Even working in two jobs, well, in a room, somewhere in a communal apartment, you can earn money with relatively honest work. Or in that part where it is very bad with kindergartens, shops, and clinics, and the savings bank also matters, it also takes time to get there and the housing condition is not very good. I also knew the case, bought an apartment next to the drug barter, but sold it cheaply, but it’s kind of uncomfortable to walk before the entrance.
        1. Prometey
          Prometey 3 December 2013 13: 00 New
          +4
          Quote: Babon
          Even working in two jobs, well, in a room, somewhere in a communal apartment, you can earn money with relatively honest work

          The key word here is honest work
      5. Shur
        Shur 3 December 2013 22: 38 New
        +1
        Then another 25 years and you can "achieve" a complete "odnushka" with a fence, but what is impressive ...
    4. Shur
      Shur 3 December 2013 22: 35 New
      +2
      Think correctly. They told you, I was told, I need an apartment, we pay utilities and more. It’s necessary to throw on ... this guys and run to the land to build together .. On the ground and feed and earn a penny it is possible, but not easy, very, but as they say, the future will be for food production, that is, agriculture.
      1. fisherman
        fisherman 4 December 2013 14: 26 New
        0
        Schur, you are well done, and you think very right
    5. Evgeniy667b
      Evgeniy667b 4 December 2013 07: 30 New
      +3
      And whom sir do you grow up in such an apartment? Another degenerate consumer? If you are not afraid of work, closer to the earth, nature. All in your hands!
    6. Evgeniy667b
      Evgeniy667b 4 December 2013 07: 30 New
      0
      And whom sir do you grow up in such an apartment? Another degenerate consumer? If you are not afraid of work, closer to the earth, nature. All in your hands!
  6. rereture
    rereture 3 December 2013 08: 55 New
    +2
    Or maybe in Russia the natural conditions are so mild that they allow living in a hut?
    1. Shur
      Shur 3 December 2013 22: 46 New
      0
      Why immediately hut-this is http://biodoma.ru/
    2. Shur
      Shur 3 December 2013 22: 49 New
      0
      Here is a clearer picture .. Rye straw is taken, mice do not like .. Although I am for firewood, in the sense of a tree, it is more expensive, I agree, but for example you can buy in the winter.
  7. rereture
    rereture 3 December 2013 08: 56 New
    0
    And we can take three crops a year in Russia?
    1. Shur
      Shur 3 December 2013 23: 13 New
      +2
      “The gross income of all agriculture in 1913 was 52,6% of the total GDP. The income of the entire national economy due to the increase in the value created in agriculture increased in comparable prices from 1900 to 1913 by 33,8%.
      The differentiation of types of agricultural production by regions led to an increase in the marketability of agriculture. Three quarters of the industry's recycled raw materials came from agriculture. The turnover of agricultural products increased during the reform period by 46%.
      Even more, at 61% compared to 1901-1905 years, the export of agricultural products increased in the pre-war years. Russia was the largest producer and exporter of bread and flax, a number of livestock products. Thus, in 1910, the export of Russian wheat amounted to 36,4% of total world exports.
      The sown area increased by 10% on the whole, and in the areas where peasants were most actively leaving the community - by 150%. Grain exports increased by a third, reaching an average of 25% of world grain exports, and in good years - 40%. The amount of applied mineral fertilizers has doubled, purchases of agricultural machinery have increased almost 3,5 times. The population of Siberia has increased. The development of agriculture, in turn, influenced industrial growth, the rate of which during these years was the highest in the world (8,8%) "Will this go?
  8. Angry reader
    Angry reader 3 December 2013 09: 02 New
    +1
    rereture to want (to wish) and to be able ... these are two big differences) What did you do to have an apartment?
    PS With cache, you seem and become a model of consumerism
  9. saag
    saag 3 December 2013 09: 09 New
    0
    Quote: rereture
    And we can take three crops a year in Russia?

    Possible in the greenhouse
    1. rereture
      rereture 3 December 2013 09: 17 New
      +1
      And where to get the land under the greenhouse?
    2. Prometey
      Prometey 3 December 2013 09: 30 New
      +1
      Quote: saag
      Possible in the greenhouse

      Golden cucumbers will come out.
  10. calocha
    calocha 3 December 2013 09: 21 New
    +1
    The reason is bad ECONOMY! In the substitution of values. (In worship - the golden calf) LIBERALS-drag us to oversleep!
  11. Boris55
    Boris55 3 December 2013 09: 23 New
    +2
    The ideology of the West, which came to us in the 90s, gives rise to a society of individualistic consumers: "You owe me, and I'll think about it." The state owes nothing to anyone, the state is us. As long as we think that someone owes us something, we will die out. In such a society there is always a "well-wisher" who will say: "I owe you manna from heaven" and will bring us to the final line ...
    It is urgent to change Western ideology to ours. Their ideology is an ideology of self-destruction.

  12. Prometey
    Prometey 3 December 2013 09: 45 New
    +7
    Can a family exist normally without their own housing?
    Can a young average family of 3 people engage in consumerism, paying the mortgage for an apartment and a constantly growing "communal apartment" (which takes almost all the salary of one of the spouses)?
    They tried to calculate how much money is needed to put on one preschool child (at current prices for children's clothing), given that the shoes are only for one season (children grow quickly).
    Is it possible to live in a metropolis without a car? Theoretically it is possible, but I personally do not trust my life and my family to the crazy crazy churabes on minibuses.
    Can parents provide full education in Russia to their children. One - most likely yes. For two children - with great strain. Three - probably not. In this case, will parents be able to provide an uplift in life to their children?
    Based on these conditions, the birth rate is calculated.
    1. fisherman
      fisherman 3 December 2013 09: 48 New
      -2
      Based on these conditions, the birth rate is calculated.


      brilliantly

      those. just print extra money :)
      1. Prometey
        Prometey 3 December 2013 10: 42 New
        +6
        Quote: fisherman
        those. just print extra money :)

        It’s not a matter of money, but of an unstable situation. Are there many who are confident in the future? The economy is constantly in a fever, enterprises are closing down decent jobs is hard to find.
        My father, for example, works in a fairly large construction company. As the work season begins - from March to November, they recruit workers. People come, work (in the summer for 12 hours and almost seven days a week). As soon as the volume of work falls, the workers are told - sorry, there is no work, there is nothing to pay wages - let's goodbye. But people came to a permanent job. And then they squeezed the juice from them, the owners of the grandmothers chopped up and kicked people out. And how then to plan a family budget?
        My wife is no longer young. But when she comes to get a job - they ask her a question - you are not going to maternity leave, otherwise we don’t need such people here. And before there was a question - and so you have a small child. Hospital we do not pay. You will often be ill - we will not keep.
        And someone after that will still say that the state owes nothing to anyone. In this case, is there a need for a state where laws exist only in the offices of their drafters?
        1. fisherman
          fisherman 3 December 2013 11: 35 New
          0
          Yes, it’s not about money


          it's all about them

          more precisely, in people who constantly think about money, there are so many of them that it is "difficult to breathe"

          always, as soon as the number of temporary workers in our country passes a certain critical level, the "accelerated course of life" immediately begins (Dostoevsky)

          Here is an example for you:


          "... And all this newborn horde of people, instantly ascended to an unattainable height, millions of times exceeding the sizes of desires available to its understanding, never thought about anything" social ", morally devastated in relation to the recent past, mentally devastated in attitude to the future, and in the present placed exclusively in the most favorable position - live in your own pleasure - alas, she could not invent anything either in terms of breadth of scope, or in terms of whimsy, or even less in terms of grace. part of whimsicality, this bourgeois horde could not invent anything. “Buy!” is what she brought into society. Buy someone else's wife, buy a ballet dancer (there was a case that a St. Petersburg merchant bought half a ballet dancer, since she was already half bought ), buy bosses, buy electors - in a word, nothing but buy.

          The bourgeois horde began right from the end: the German Schnaps needed whole generations to finally reach the well-being and a glass of beer, and our bourgeois first achieved and, therefore, had to go directly to the swill, to the result, to the crowning of the building. And in his personal relationship, he also demands an end. He takes care of a bourgeois lady and can not invent anything but a swill. Watering her and searing everything that is around her.

          “Their presence makes normal people, that is,“ people with great moral requirements, to reduce these requirements to a minimum, ”because“ now is not the time for the manifestation of your highly educated thoughts and goals related to these thoughts ... great knowledge and great moral and even, in general speaking, neat human relations can and should even be postponed until another time ... until this pressure of the deathly burden of life ends. "For that early Russian bourgeois spread" in a living human society the smell of a cold corpse "" (essay "Bourgeois" second half of the 19th century)

          pay attention first of all to this:

          "The bourgeois horde began right from the end: the German Schnapps needed whole generations to finally achieve prosperity and a glass of beer, and our bourgeois first achieved and, therefore,"

          "there are easy decisions, but there are right decisions"

          and it seemed to you that if we change the king, then earthly paradise and prosperity will surely come?

          this will require generations and generations, if you do not believe it, then just look at Ukraine, there are a handful of d .... fishing convinces themselves and others that if they change the king (I don’t remember again), they will become the European people: )
    2. Small Saturn
      Small Saturn 3 December 2013 15: 36 New
      +3
      Totally agree with you! I read this article and think: "where was I involved in consumerism?" Then I read your comment and understood - not everything is as clear as described above. The situation that you describe in the comments is very familiar to me on my own skin, so to speak)) (except for the mortgage, while God had mercy).
      And so, yes, there is already not enough money for consumerism, of course I let them go to work first, and only then to this dissonant word, but the last 1-1,5 years is enough only for work))) ... The way of life has changed not much, I use the "pleasures of Western civilization" very moderately, I hardly even use it at all, the salary has also not changed in +, and not in 1-1,5 years, but in 3 years, the communal apartment will soon double compared to 2010, about food I won't say anything and everything is clear. So it turns out that the "consumerism" that I can afford is: a movie every 3 months, in winter skiing on weekends (not always) - rent 100 rubles / hour, football - hall 50-100 rubles from the nose in 1-2 hours , cigarettes - 55 rubles !!! pack / 2 days (I will throw it!), beer (optional 1-2 times a week), fishing ... oh yes, this apparently does not apply here anymore)) And now the question: Can I be considered a member of the "consuming society"? )))
      PS: but I still want a child, and for some reason, tightening the belt is not at all scary for your child, but of course not for 10 or even for 3, this is unrealistic now and not because I’m my last iPhone I will not buy, but because it will be scary for him, I suddenly will not pull ...
  13. fennekRUS
    fennekRUS 3 December 2013 10: 04 New
    0
    all right, but just do something? how to heal a healing pendal?
  14. pensioner
    pensioner 3 December 2013 10: 13 New
    +1
    I don’t know, I don’t know ... I work in an organization where the average age of employees is not much higher than 30. They all breed without exception. For example, my companion had a son yesterday. Most have two children. The boss generally has 3rd. In our department’s decree, the 3rd (like) women are sitting ... So: I don’t observe the demographic crisis by the example of my organization ...
  15. Energet1k_
    Energet1k_ 3 December 2013 10: 21 New
    +1
    Here it is the main reason for the deplorable state of our demography, and not only demography, but of society as a whole! Moral values ​​are inferior to physical needs and pleasures. The moral decay of society leads civilization to a dead end. Ancient Rome clearly showed how not to do it, but apparently this did not teach anything to Europe. But there is one effective super weapon against the forces of evil smile , it is very simple and lies in wisdom: "If you want to change the world, start with yourself"
  16. Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 3 December 2013 10: 28 New
    +3
    Different - impossible. Of course, eating just bread when around croissants is sour. He lived young with his wife and child in a removable hut for a long time, there was not even money for newspapers. Plowed 24 hours a day to get on his feet, for that and youth. Now alive and well, a bunch of children and grandchildren, which I also wish for you.
    1. Toporkoff
      Toporkoff 3 December 2013 11: 37 New
      +1
      Well, whining is not a factory job. laughing
      1. Stiletto
        Stiletto 3 December 2013 11: 43 New
        +3
        And really, what a howl, comrades? Who are we burying? Russia was, is, and will be. And demography is improved not by combining letters on the keyboard, but by simple progressive movements, multiplied by love and loyalty in a normal, heterogeneous family.


        Ah, leave unnecessary disputes.
        I have already proved everything to myself.
        Better women can only be women
        Which I have not been to! laughing laughing laughing

        And let the homosexuals minus the right Russian families - it’s an honor to know that we breathe different air! soldier
    2. Shur
      Shur 3 December 2013 23: 18 New
      +1
      My grandmother worked while my legs were worn, hard (rural work), I came to my father in the city (my youngest son) and quickly died out. Then they did not think about iPhones, there was no need, but they knew the children were the future.
  17. wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 3 December 2013 10: 54 New
    +1
    The decline in fertility is not due to the fact that there are consumer loans (this is just part of the problem).
    An intelligent person always sees a means in money, but a stupid goal. If there is an opportunity to improve the lives of your loved ones and yours in particular, using borrowed funds for this. Is that bad or what?
    Is it better to produce poverty as it was before in peasant families?
    To live according to the principle "someone has broken a lapkku not counting, but before the wedding he will heal, but he will die like that."
    Or like in a joke about a gypsy, a gypsy and a gypsy woman when a gypsy woman got dirty in tar, and a gypsy wife says: -What do you think is easier to wash or make a new one?
    Living on this principle is bestiality.
    But Russia needs healthy, intelligent people!
    I agree with the author about the salvation of the hopelessly crippled. Everything should have a reasonable balance. And a reasonable measure.
    Then everything will be normal in our lives.
    I will add that the female body (depending on individual health) is able to tolerate and give birth to a very limited number of healthy children (according to science, on average three +/- 1), the rest will be with physical or mental defects.
    I want to call everyone to the voice of reason, respect, love and take care of your women. Remember that they are living people, not a conveyor for the production of children.
  18. vat
    vat 3 December 2013 10: 55 New
    +3
    According to the author, there is no particular need to treat people, the strongest will survive, the computer and the car are luxurious, material values ​​are unnecessary, most importantly more children. Yes, and here apartments, you can live in the cave, why should the elderly feed only losses, weak children can throw off rocks, because we are giving birth to a large number of new ones ... Then the population will increase to 1 billion, only the standard of living will be like in Africa. I wonder how many children the author has?
    1. Energet1k_
      Energet1k_ 3 December 2013 11: 20 New
      +1
      Quote: vat
      According to the author, there is no particular need to treat people, the strongest will survive, the computer and the car are luxurious, material values ​​are unnecessary, most importantly more children. Yes, and here apartments, you can live in the cave, why should the elderly feed only losses, weak children can throw off rocks, because we are giving birth to a large number of new ones ... Then the population will increase to 1 billion, only the standard of living will be like in Africa. I wonder how many children the author has?

      This is YOUR attitude to this article, the author only brings up the "shells", and you load it yourself. The author proposes to abandon the consumer society imposed on us, this does not mean that we need to eat one bread with water and live in the peres, but simply live not for consumption, but for the sake of another higher goal - children
      1. Dimon-chik-79
        Dimon-chik-79 3 December 2013 13: 16 New
        0
        Quote: Energet1k_
        it doesn’t mean that you have to eat one bread with water and live in the crib,

        What does it mean? What bread can you spread not a lot of butter, but on weekends?
        To live not in a cave, but in a one-room Khrushchev family with three children (maybe heterosexual besides)?
        In my opinion, we have all gone through this at one time ...
        Why are we not worthy to live a good, happy, and fulfilling life? Why can not we have a decent multi-room apartment (not a palace!), A good modern car (not Beaäntley!), Why should our children not get a good education and not necessarily a higher education (not Oxford!)? Is that all luxury?
        I assure you that as soon as our fellow citizens reach a normal standard of living, their families begin to grow! And three-four children per little wealthy (not rich !!) family is a normal everyday occurrence! Do not think badly about Russian people and judge society as a whole by single copies!
        "Just live not for the sake of consumption" - no, just consume laughing for the sake of life!
      2. Shur
        Shur 3 December 2013 23: 22 New
        0
        Children are the continuation of us, and not the highest goal, they are our payment for our lives. They gave us life, it's worth it to give it to others, right? The goal is to become higher spiritual, to rise above your self ..
  19. Dimon-chik-79
    Dimon-chik-79 3 December 2013 11: 16 New
    +6
    My personal opinion is a rare nonsense article! The impression was that a person is considered here as a kind of labor and military resource! The purpose of which is to satisfy the ambitions and other "consumer" needs of a narrow circle of selected people. It doesn't matter what name these elites will have and what political system they will establish for themselves. The meaning remains unchanged society is the servants of this elite, creating material wealth and conditions for its safe and comfortable (or better yet, permanent) existence.
    Moreover, the own interests and needs of the society itself and of the individual in particular are not, of course, decisive and priority. And they are satisfied (ie our "consumerism" laughing ) precisely to the extent that allows you to effectively perform the above functions assigned to society.
    So this is the main reason for the demographic crisis. And believe me, if the borders of the country and any, be it Europe, or America or others, were closed for access from the outside, the influx of foreign "human resources", then any authorities of any country would make every effort to solve the demographic problem and maintain the necessary (it is clear why) the number of this resource. And for the elite, by and large, it does not matter who this resource is, hence the imposed policy of multiculturalism and universal tolerance.
    It’s just so cheaper, there is ready-made material and no need to invest in creating the conditions for reproduction and increasing the indigenous population. That's all!
    1. Shur
      Shur 4 December 2013 00: 26 New
      0
      One problem was born from another and this is not nonsense. Those who ultimately set the tone and rule are the elite. And what, when the Islamic revolution in Europe happens, will they reach the goal?
  20. dengy12
    dengy12 3 December 2013 11: 32 New
    +1
    Quote: fisherman
    Interestingly, is it possible to engage in "consumerism" on the mrot?

    unfortunately, this was impossible even under developed socialism :)

    I don’t know how on a mole but on a living wage. I’ve been so overlooked for 8 years repeat
    1. fisherman
      fisherman 3 December 2013 12: 06 New
      +1
      I don’t know how on a mole but on a living wage. I’ve been so overlooked for 8 years


      and if the children see? and grandchildren? don’t think that I’m going to read notations, when we take our grandchildren to ourselves, they always see that their grandmother is doing something around the house, I also try to keep up :)

      you can’t deceive them by talking about how to live correctly, while lying on the couch :) I exaggerate a little, but I think you understand the meaning

      if not us, then strangers will be engaged in their upbringing, as it were softer
  21. Diviz
    Diviz 3 December 2013 11: 49 New
    +4
    Russians do not give up. Khokhlam I wish you not to squeeze the same blood.
  22. Yeraz
    Yeraz 3 December 2013 11: 58 New
    +3
    Yes, there are 2 problems of different categories of people.
    I’ll tell you about the situation in St. Petersburg.
    1. People who come from the provinces, the Russians themselves, come to the metropolis and start working quietly, you can find work from 30 thousand. Salary of the picker 5 days with 9 hours 30-35 thousand.
    And it’s hard for him to start a family because the rent is big, and there is another to eat, the mortgage is horrible. And I know many who would be happy for the family, but need the help of the state. But this category is not a fact that will give birth to 3 children, well, because that the trend is not like that.
    2 .. these are people who have a hut, BUT this is a more "advanced" generation, where it rests on iPhones, dogs that cost more than a child.
    But they also have a different idea about the child, they want them to live on average or the necessary minimum, they want the children to LIVE AT THE ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM. And therefore, the financial costs are huge, plus taking care of yourself, oh, I'll ruin the figure, children are responsibility, and fewer children less responsibility and more time for themselves.
    3. A category of funny people, they rent a hut, live from a zepa on Za, but they must have a phone for 30, he or she must rest abroad once a year and must go somewhere to relax on weekends.

    There are no actions except blah blah and therefore the demographic situation will only get worse.
    All these results, we must take into account how many of these born Russians, plus, every year thousands of people receive Russian citizenship and in statistics they are also taken into account, Russians who have money try to get out of Russia, I know 2 families of doctors who moved to India, one in Cuba, but there are so many willing people.
  23. shpuntik
    shpuntik 3 December 2013 12: 04 New
    +3
    The main channels through which consumer stereotypes are introduced are TV and advertising.

    The article is about the grudge of the day, but this problem has always existed — control of one’s desires. In Orthodox asceticism this is called the lustful property of the soul.
    (http://www.golden-ship.ru/load/v/varnavabel/439
    http://azbyka.ru/otechnik/?Grigorij_Nisskij/o_dushe_voskresenii
    ).
    In Russia, the massacre began with the words "freedom equality Brotherhood", sought a free society, as did the ShA with partners, however. Reached?
    And here is how the ascetics understand the word "freedom": "Freedom is power over thought, which is from God;" St. Isaac the Syrian.
    Russians need to learn from the Jews how to create their own state, what schools and kindergartens they want to do, whoever wants: kibbutz collective farms. We need to learn to hold defense, tolerance corrodes society like rust. Yes, and taxes must be able to count and influence them. But I do not see a common platform. If this is not Christianity, then what ??
  24. lucidlook
    lucidlook 3 December 2013 12: 13 New
    0
    Interestingly, is the society of inhabitants, for example, of the Scandinavian countries a consumer society or what? Are the values ​​"Western liberal" there? If so, then it is necessary to somehow explain the fact that in the same Norway with its harsh climate and extremely low level of migration from southern countries, the birth rate consistently exceeds the death rate. As an illustrative example, I cite the population graph from the Wikipedia page. But there are a lot of such examples!

    I fully support the good beginnings of constructive criticism of the disregard of the Russian authorities for the demographic problem. But with the explanations of the underlying processes as a whole, the author hurried somewhat, the actual base had to be worked out better.
    1. Stanislas
      Stanislas 3 December 2013 19: 28 New
      +1
      Have you drawn a graph yourself?
      Are you freeing Liberasts? Oh well...
      1. lucidlook
        lucidlook 3 December 2013 21: 25 New
        0
        Quote: Stanislav
        Have you drawn a graph yourself?

        Didn't I make myself clear what this schedule is and where? Apparently you are still not clear. Then why didn't you ask? Well, let's say you asked. I answer. I have a population graph (in Russian "population"). And you have a fertility chart (i.e. population growth). There are no contradictions. Your graph perfectly confirms and complements mine - you see, there are no negative numbers on yours (and does not even go below 1.25 anywhere). I dare to suggest that it is about fertility (the average number of children in a family).

        Quote: Stanislav
        Are you freeing Liberasts? Oh well...

        I leave it on your conscience.

        All the best. hi
        1. Stanislas
          Stanislas 3 December 2013 23: 08 New
          0
          The rest are from Sweden, Lithuania and Poland. Norway has set an annual limit on skilled labor migrants of 5 thousand people. And why sculpt a humpback to the wall with your population? Provide a link to the page of your Wikipedia graphic so that you can talk about conscience later
          1. lucidlook
            lucidlook 4 December 2013 15: 50 New
            0
            Quote: Stanislav
            And why sculpt a humpback to the wall with your population? Provide a link to the page of your Wikipedia graphic so that you can talk about conscience later

            Have you been banned on Google? Well, ok, catch the link
            https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D
            0%B5_%D0%9D%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%B8
            1. Stanislas
              Stanislas 5 December 2013 16: 50 New
              0
              Quote: lucidlook
              Have you been banned on Google?

              No, no one banned, yesterday on this site at some point the "answer" button stopped working. In the wiki article "Norway" I definitely did not find such a schedule. But there is this: "More than 90% are Norwegians. The largest national minority are Arabs - several hundred thousand people." It even quite understandably refutes your idea that migrants from the south do not go to this northern country.
              Quote: lucidlook
              Well, ok, catch the link

              Link, unfortunately, broken: 400 Bad Request. But I myself found this graph on the Norwegian Population page. Of course, as I already wrote, this graph does not in any way reflect the relationship between fertility and mortality, but it is noteworthy that it is taken from the CIA publications. Here is the link: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2119rank.h
              tml? countryName = Norway & countryCode = no®ionCode = eu & rank = 118 # no Country comparison // CIA The Council of Europe is also not the ultimate truth, but I have more confidence in its publications than in the CIA.
    2. Stanislas
      Stanislas 3 December 2013 22: 49 New
      +1
      Quote: lucidlook
      the fact that in the same Norway with its harsh climate and extremely low migration from southern countries
      FSE Nipalis Vikenge: In Norway, which is not a member of the EU and is not going to enter, the picture is different. Revenues from oil and gas of the North Sea arrive regularly. To help the Greeks and the Portuguese, too, do not have to spend money. All that the country has earned comes to the state budget and the “oil” fund of Norway, which already has accumulated 560 billion euros (with a population of just over 5 million people!).
      After the "white terrorist" Breivik it was inconvenient to raise the issue of Muslims. Conservative leader Erna Solberg (Iron Erna, as she is called in Norway), who will soon become prime minister, even turned to her more right-wing colleagues from the Progressive Party to temper their anti-immigrant rhetoric. Islam The position of the Gentiles under the Sharia, more in the article: What is jizya? Once, in the VIII century, the ancestors of modern Norwegians, the Vikings, “walked” a lot in Morocco and then Muslim Spain. But now Muslims have recouped on the descendants of the Vikings in full. According to various estimates, today at least 300 thousand Muslims live in Norway (immigrants, their children and grandchildren converted to Islam in mixed marriages, Norwegians). This is 6% of the population. According to some experts, over the next 20-30 years, the number of followers of Islam can be 11% of the total number of Norwegians). Moreover, most of these people are not at all eager to perceive the values ​​of the society in which they live. Rather, the opposite. The number of rape today in the Norwegian capital is six times (percentage) higher than the level of similar crimes in New York. Most rapists come from Muslim countries. According to the Aftenposten newspaper, every two out of three. Many of them continue to live according to Sharia law. According to the same “laws”, a woman can complain to the authorities about a rapist, only having four witnesses of men. Otherwise, she is stoned for adultery. In June 2011, the whole country was discussing the tragedy that happened in Trondheim. A group of Muslim immigrants raped a schoolgirl, after which the victim became depressed and died. Law enforcement officers acknowledge that most of the brutal rape in the country are committed by immigrants from Africa and the Middle East

      More information at http://voprosik.net/migranty-v-norvegii/ © QUESTION
      1. lucidlook
        lucidlook 4 December 2013 16: 04 New
        0
        Well, yes, of course, Vladimir Nesterov, what about the national question, and suddenly without it ?! (http://www.fondsk.ru/news/2013/09/18/vikingi-i-musulmane-22886.html - hence the reprint, right?)

        Reliable source, what to say! Honest, not biased, comprehensive and with a huge factual base. The amount of initial data and references to sources in his works is sometimes exactly zero.

        And assertions from the series "But unemployment will reach a record 12,4% by the end of the year." - it's just some kind of holiday! Compare with data from
        http://www.tradingeconomics.com/norway/unemployment-rate



        I understand who needs this "scientist" - all those who need to portray the negative of the national and economic issue "there they have" as badly as possible. Why is another very interesting question. But you just have to ask yourself - why should you believe in this?
        1. Stanislas
          Stanislas 5 December 2013 17: 21 New
          0
          And again you are changing the subject of the dispute: the birth rate in the countries of consumerism. I cited a link to the fertility chart according to the Council of Europe data for the same period of consumption, and for some reason you flood with creepy pictures of population growth over 300 years and also write that the CE chart somehow "confirms and complements" the creepy one, in which the fertility is deeply hidden behind a number of factors, including migration. In this, for me, an unsuccessful attempt to prove that "Western liberal" values ​​do not have any negative impact on the birth rate is evidently manifested. So my conscience is fine, you can ping your own (ping -e host.your.conscience)
    3. Shur
      Shur 3 December 2013 23: 25 New
      +1
      Norway is full of visitors, Arabs there and other things. Are they on the charts? In Europe, there will soon be a birth spell and every third child will be named Abdurahman ..
      1. shpuntik
        shpuntik 4 December 2013 02: 13 New
        0
        Shur RU Yesterday, 23:25 ↑
        Norway is full of visitors, Arabs there and other things. Are they on the charts?

        Completely different graphics.
        lucidlook GB Yesterday, 12:13
        He whipped around quickly, but the schedule was not of birth rate, but of the settlement of the territory of Norway for 300 years. lol The axes are not signed, but I suspect that the Y axis is in a million people. (three hundred years ago, what kind of oligophrenic would go there, in such a cold weather? It’s warm now: the stoves are good, the fuel is unmeasured.)
        А
        Stanislav RU Yesterday, 19:28 ↑
        gave a schedule not only for Norway, and most likely worked on the topic in the light of Breivik's antics. But I see on his graph: 2,5 people per 1 woman on average. This is neither growth nor decline. There may be a slight preponderance of fertility over mortality, which is the same, in principle, growth. What I wanted to say
        lucidlook GB

        The circle is closed. Everyone turned out to be right. wink
        1. The comment was deleted.
  25. Averias
    Averias 3 December 2013 12: 14 New
    +6
    A little distracted from the topic under discussion, although ..... In general, here's what I mean:
    I went to rest in Vietnam (literally from an airplane), and since the sun is not an amateur (I burn out), I devoted my rest to what to see. I’ll briefly say about the locals - they are hardworking people, they have been working since 5 a.m.
    But not about that now, but about our compatriots, or rather compatriots.
    Glorious women.
    Friend, this is some kind of darkness. I did not expect to see this.
    They drink black, rudeness, vulgarity, obscenity, the local attitude as subhuman. What is this, from the "dirt yes to the Princes"? Here he is, revelry of rotten ambition and lack of self-esteem and low self-esteem.
    Guys, after drinking, behave decently, well, the mat slips (where without it). And that is all. And women, yes yes, it’s women who act ....
    It is clear that in Russia it’s easy to grab such a roll. And there .... In general, darkness, and most importantly, there are a lot of them, the bulk of which I saw behaved just like that.
    And with such ladies to raise demographics? Yes, I’m sorry, the member will not rise to this.
    1. Prometey
      Prometey 3 December 2013 19: 35 New
      +4
      Quote: Averias
      Glorious women.
      Friend, this is some kind of darkness. I did not expect to see this.

      Yes, gloomy. But sometimes you go around the city slowly in a traffic jam, and you have nothing to stare at from either side. You look - here is BMW-6, there is a Range Rover, here is a Lexus. If you look who is sitting behind the wheel, you’ll be fooled. Nipples - 25-27 years old. Well, the fact that at this age you won’t earn money with such labor is undoubtedly; here you go and think, apparently well suck their sponsors. Such children will definitely never think.
      1. Shur
        Shur 3 December 2013 23: 27 New
        0
        It’s blooming life, so to speak ..
  26. individual
    individual 3 December 2013 12: 28 New
    +2
    There are many reasons for the decline in the birth rate.
    People are accustomed to the image of a consumer of goods.
    Units can afford it.
    16-17 thousand level of survival, the minimum amount for working to support themselves and the child.
    Will the average statistical household plan for a baby boom?!?
    To do this, each of the parents must have an income of 70 thousand rubles, and now the national average is 30 thousand.
    1. Shur
      Shur 3 December 2013 23: 33 New
      +2
      Still such a moment - Once a friend told me, she went to be checked on the female part and she was sent to get wits. Come gryat there they will explain to you for your sex life. I went to the address in the booklet and, in a fixed place, without a sign, the gentlemen's assistants in "family planning" are sitting. I think it's not difficult to guess who is sponsoring them and what they were talking about in the campaign. So that's it. You don't need to give birth, who are you? If you’re people, then you’ll think about it, why should you breed poverty? For this gentlemen, Western nonhumans do not spare money.
  27. individual
    individual 3 December 2013 12: 38 New
    +3
    Another thing worries.
    Look at the events in Ukraine: in addition to political provocateurs, quite economically deprived people also come from the west.
    When prices for cars and diamonds are not rising, but rising for food and consumer goods.
    This inequality hurts hearing and eyes.
    Beggars become even poorer, and the rich live in full contentment.
    More about choosing priorities:
    The state should spend money on a law enforcement system that "protects" the rallies or pay people so much that they do not go to these rallies. This is a choice of power. After all, the basis of social tension is the extremely low standard of living of people. In the meantime, it turns out, they prefer to spend on the police.
    When this police is beaten, it may turn its back on this power.
  28. aud13
    aud13 3 December 2013 12: 46 New
    +3
    The poor demographic situation is associated not only with the fact that the birth rate is low, but also with other reasons. I won’t talk about everyone, because I’m not a specialist, but I would like to mention one thing. Namely, the migration of human capital from Russia.
    Just last week I watched a TV program in which representatives of some (seemingly Czech) university actively invited our youth to study in an advertising video. At the same time, the advantages of studying (free!) And subsequent employment there in the Czech Republic were colorfully painted. We talked about the hundreds of our citizens who have studied under the program under which they offer to study.
    Look what happens:
    - a person was born and raised in our country, significant sums have been spent on education, maintenance, payment of maternity capital, etc. (hospitals, nurseries and kindergartens, schools, sports and other children's institutions, etc.). And at the exit of our young compatriot into the big life, he is "intercepted" by foreign "buyers" and lured to him. And in the end, the youth who grew up in our country and raised, including for our money, starts to work for our competitors. Moreover, young people are usually not the worst, they drop out the bad and leave here.
    And this university is not the only one in Russia that lures. And then we are surprised that some young man who has grown up in Russia is very useful there, etc.
    It has long been flogging to restore order in this matter. The state must by all legal (and sometimes not entirely legal) means prevent the luring of young people abroad.
    It would be a desire and cover this shop could. Introduce licensing, tightly control every breath, increase taxes on this type by 10%, etc. (Ten thousand% - that is, make this type of activity unprofitable).
  29. The comment was deleted.
  30. Evil rabbit
    Evil rabbit 3 December 2013 14: 59 New
    +1
    Finally, there was a definition of the current state of society - "Consumerism". In order to have a child, or even two, three, you have to give up a lot, from rest abroad, and from rest, as we mostly understand it in general, from a new car, from a pile of unnecessary rags in general, maybe even from a career, etc. The values ​​are different now. Children for many are not a joy, but a problem. And do not say that you MUST first be provided with housing, preferably free of charge, a kindergarten, etc., and then we will think about it. I give a guarantee that, after thinking, many will not dare to have children. The matter is not in material well-being, but in the state of the soul. A substitution of values ​​took place. I am no longer a young person, I was born in the post-war years, my parents had three of us, all of our parents' relatives had 3-4 children. And I will not say that we are deprived. We lived in luxury, in the luxury of communicating with brothers, sisters and friends. And notice not "online". There was just food and just clothes.
    And yet, in almost every second comment there is "the state should ...", "give us ...", but isn't it time to think about what you yourself can ... Our ancestors were not impotent in every sense , created a great empire, and we, I hope so far, have traded everything for "lentil stew".
    1. lucidlook
      lucidlook 3 December 2013 18: 08 New
      +2
      May I ask you some questions?
      1. You had free education (both secondary and higher)?
      2. You had free medical service?
      3. You had free travel and leisure in pioneer camps?
      4. Your parents had work? (I guess they weren’t parasites)
      5. Your parents had mortgage? Perhaps not you specifically, but many of your entourage lived in government-provided housing?
      6. Your family had savings? In the very Savings Bank. How were they regularly taken from you?
      7. How much did your family spend on travel and food (as a percentage of monthly income)?

      Does the idea continue to be clear? The state in those distant socialist years was at the very least poor, but still cared about most of its citizens. Which, unfortunately, cannot be said today. Of course, it cares, but already - about the minority. And - you will not believe! - that very minority has many children in their families. It's about all those whom the state feeds. (Yes, including the Caucasus, but not only).

      This is precisely what the "State must ..." is about. Not in the sense that someone puts it on the meter here, no, you can simply judge by comparison and by analogy with everything that the state gave back then, in those distant years, when we all gave it our ardor and our lives. Now what? ... just taxes? And even then ...
      1. Shur
        Shur 3 December 2013 23: 42 New
        +2
        Yeah, grandfather was given a "mortgage" in Siberia, as an unreliable element, a former Cossack. Unloaded with children at the station and stomp until registration in a barrack without heating and other things. It was different. And my "free" schools, medicine and so on will not return those who died from their families. In one thing you are right - it was the birth of a truly social society, that is, a community. Previously, we did not lock the doors in the house and were happy in our own way, and not in someone else's. Of course, this and that are now extremes. You need to live reasonably in moderation. Property and goods are necessary according to need, but revolutions cannot solve this in any way. We need a revolution in our heads, a spiritual one, it’s impossible without it!
    2. Prometey
      Prometey 3 December 2013 19: 53 New
      +4
      Evil rabbit
      In something you are right. Indeed, there are young people who are burning their lives in hedonism, for them children are the end of ersatz freedom. And I know a lot of these. But I know those who have one child and they would like to have one more. I belong to such ones as well. But it is precisely the instability of life that stops it. As a parent, I consider myself obligated to give my children a decent childhood, not limited to the entrance of their home. My daughter had a dream to see the sea, which she saw on TV. And I spat on everything and drove my family to the Black Sea to spend the money I earned. And I consider it my duty, because once in childhood, my parents and grandfather also took me to the sea.
      And from the state I do not need anything except a guarantee of protection of childhood and motherhood.
  31. The comment was deleted.
    1. rereture
      rereture 3 December 2013 15: 07 New
      +7
      Overalls for girls 1-8 years old. Price 4900r
      http://vinnypooh.ru/girls/2924-1.htm

      Men's jacket. Price 4000r

      http://kurtka.ru/catalogue/men/12813/

      It can be seen from this that it is very simple to do business on children, since the child needs overalls, but an adult can leave the winter and the old jacket.

      Minimum wage Bryansk region 5205

      http://www.mojazarplata.ru/main/minimumwages/mrot-2013-po-subektam-rossisko-fede


      racii-moja-zarplata-v-rossii

      About 5 tr.
      1. Shur
        Shur 3 December 2013 23: 44 New
        0
        So on medicines for seriously ill people do. On death and our life, on everything. Upyr essence.
      2. saber
        saber 4 December 2013 16: 42 New
        0
        I spit on stores, buy on the Internet, I advise you
  32. rodevaan
    rodevaan 3 December 2013 15: 28 New
    +2
    What is the reason for such a pitiable demographic state of the Russian people?

    - Yes, in what / in what? No need to write lengthy arguments on 2-3 sheets. And so everything is clear.

    Consumer society, which exists only to climb supermarkets, thirst at nightclubs, fuck with anyone and travel abroad - IS NOT INTERESTED IN ANY SELF-RESTRICTION!

    And self-restraint for them is children. Children voluntarily limit themselves to all these pleasures. And so many do not want to have children, that is, they DO NOT WANT to deprive themselves of a windy and carefree life, where they can eat, sleep, walk and do nothing.

    - Here is the one and only reason. Maternal capital can be increased at least 10 times. Anyway, there will be no sense from lazy idle obdudu.
  33. Uhe
    Uhe 3 December 2013 15: 29 New
    +4
    In the USSR, the Russian population grew, in spite of urbanization, and is now dying out. Is it not clear that the Russians are simply incompatible with capitalism?

    What are Christian values? Surround, talkers;) Capitalism arose in Christian countries, Christianity gave rise to capitalism, and it kills its parent, which is quite typical for these subjects - the murder of brothers, parents, relatives for political, economic and religious reasons. The Russians found protection from this evil in the 13th century, creating double faith, but it was again broken through in the 17th and 18th centuries by the reforms of Alexei Mikhailovich and his son — damned forever — Peter 1. They found protection under Stalin, and at the end of the 80- They pierced her again. Will we find it again?

    Then, who needs simple reproduction, without regard to quality? Does the new Hitrovka give you peace? Only socialism and people's power can change the situation.

    For a snack about "values". Bishop Serapion of Vladimir, 13th century: "I have a deep sadness in my heart about you, my children. You will not change your bad habits, you do everything godless for the destruction of your soul. You have rejected the truth, you have no love, envy and flattery flourish in you. ...

    Better, brethren, let us move away from evil, let us abandon all atrocities: robbery, robbery, drunkenness, adultery, covetousness, resentment, theft, avarice, perjury, anger, rage, grudge, lies, slander, usury.

    ... Why don’t you grieve for your madness? Even the pagans, not knowing the law of God, do not kill their co-religionists, do not rob, do not blame in vain, do not slander, do not steal, do not lie on someone else's; no pagan will betray his brother, and if someone befalls trouble, they will atone for him and help him in need, and they will show everyone found at the auction.

    We consider ourselves Orthodox, baptized in the name of God, and have heard his commandments, but always lies are fulfilled, and envy, and mercy. We rob our brothers, we sell them to the infidels, if we could, by denunciations, envy we would bring each other together ... "
  34. iConst
    iConst 3 December 2013 16: 35 New
    0
    In general, I agree with the author. I did it.

    And in the discussions correctly, the main evil is the media, or rather TV. To paraphrase the leader of the world proletariat, taking television under public control is a key task.

    In fact, children learn from examples, and in our rhythm of life, when parents come home in the evening and dream to collapse into an armchair, where is it already up to education.

    Bidloyumor, dolchevita, shaking up dirty linen of fucking "stars", crime serials with endless violence, outright grief in the middle of the evening make up 90% of the time of the leading channels.

    And advertising, aggressive-hysterical with heavy volleys, beating nerves - what else do you want?

    I would introduce a law. All programs are divided into three categories:
    1st: scientific, educational, historical and patriotic, art, etc. subsidized by the state.

    2nd: Just movies, fashion, such as KVN, etc. - are not subsidized.

    3rd: what I transferred in 90% - they must pay tax to the state (and not bad). Hence, the money compensates for the 1st category.

    So it is with cinemas. As in americos: get a category. (By the way - most of the Hollywood derbmock that on our screens has the status "not for showing in the USA").

    For your information - the famous film of the 80s "Robocop" for a long time could not get the status of a film in the states of the film!

    And those films that go around the world often have a completely different version: almost no violence, boobs, etc.

    Our partners are two-faced!
    1. Shur
      Shur 3 December 2013 23: 50 New
      0
      Duck they have a two-system wassat That is their essence.
  35. iConst
    iConst 3 December 2013 16: 35 New
    0
    In general, I agree with the author. I did it.

    And in the discussions correctly, the main evil is the media, or rather TV. To paraphrase the leader of the world proletariat, taking television under public control is a key task.

    In fact, children learn from examples, and in our rhythm of life, when parents come home in the evening and dream to collapse into an armchair, where is it already up to education.

    Bidloyumor, dolchevita, shaking up dirty linen of fucking "stars", crime serials with endless violence, outright grief in the middle of the evening make up 90% of the time of the leading channels.

    And advertising, aggressive-hysterical with heavy volleys, beating nerves - what else do you want?

    I would introduce a law. All programs are divided into three categories:
    1st: scientific, educational, historical and patriotic, art, etc. subsidized by the state.

    2nd: Just movies, fashion, such as KVN, etc. - are not subsidized.

    3rd: what I transferred in 90% - they must pay tax to the state (and not bad). Hence, the money compensates for the 1st category.

    So it is with cinemas. As in americos: get a category. (By the way - most of the Hollywood derbmock that on our screens has the status "not for showing in the USA").

    For your information - the famous film of the 80s "Robocop" for a long time could not get the status of a film in the states of the film!

    And those films that go around the world often have a completely different version: almost no violence, boobs, etc.

    Our partners are two-faced!
  36. Narrator.tales
    Narrator.tales 3 December 2013 16: 47 New
    -1
    A simple example, in order to "create" something for a person he needs time - whether it be the invention of weapons or the smelting of steel, or the creation of masterpieces of art, there simply will not be time for teaching children (for both parents) what will grow out of such a child is easy to tell everyone - I don't know where there is a family so that one of the parents does not work. The fact that under the tsar they gave birth to 10-12 children led to the revolution 80% of illiterate slaves, who, just to devour and love, in different ways. There is no demographic problem, was in 1992-99, not now. said that there is, you all believe. the fact that non-Russian peoples give birth more is their reproducibility problem, and not our demographic problem.
  37. kaktus
    kaktus 3 December 2013 16: 53 New
    +3
    This topic is endless, and the demographic problem will be solved only in combination with others. No one argues that a family needs housing, needs means to live, children need attention and costs ... this is all fair. BUT for life, people are not obliged to break into a metropolis or an abandoned farm. The basis of the Russian state has always been in the so-called. "province" - small cities, towns, villages, villages. With the support of the Russian "hinterland" - the construction of housing, schools, hospitals, roads, etc., employment of people not "far away", but close to home - many problems will be solved, including demographic. Perhaps it is not easy and not fast. But the alternative is small farms between monstrous megacities (brr, some kind of apocalypse am) IMHO.
  38. makeev.dmitry
    makeev.dmitry 3 December 2013 16: 56 New
    +1
    everything is just like that. loss of moral guidelines. substitution of true values ​​with false ones. hedonism urbanization alcohol and abortion. long term extermination strategy
  39. Nikotin13
    Nikotin13 3 December 2013 17: 42 New
    0
    I think you need to start with abortion is the legal murder of a person.
  40. Nikotin13
    Nikotin13 3 December 2013 17: 42 New
    0
    I think you need to start with abortion is the legal murder of a person.
  41. wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 3 December 2013 17: 58 New
    -1
    By and large, the whole topic with a demographic problem is trying to drive power into our heads.
    And in our country it is impossible to trust the authorities, it is possible to verify, but it is impossible to believe.
    Look better around you.
    If you see children in kindergarten when you go to work in the morning, passing by the school, don’t be too lazy and look out the windows and you will see them there too.
    And believe me there are many of them. Consequently, the problems of demography are not so terrible or more and more invented by someone specifically in order to manipulate us.
    I can only say one thing to everyone. Give birth to as many children as you can grow up. This is a private affair of each couple. And no one has the right to impose it on you.
    By the way, I didn’t notice that the representatives of our government by personal example inspired citizens to improve this very situation (although they don’t seem to be in poverty).
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 3 December 2013 20: 41 New
      +1
      Quote: wanderer_032
      I can only say one thing to everyone. Give birth to as many children as you can grow up. This is a private affair of each couple. And no one has the right to impose it on you.

      However, there is a certain minimum - three children - that every family must fulfill for the sake of the survival of the nation, for the sake of prosperity - at least five, to be a leader in the world - more than seven. Right now the role of Russia in the world is being laid in twenty years - and this role depends on how many children the country will grow up.
      And yet, if you do not have children, the state has the right to refuse your pension.
      1. wanderer_032
        wanderer_032 3 December 2013 22: 08 New
        +2
        And if you give birth to as many children as you wrote, and without ensuring a decent education for them (they simply will not be in demand as workers, or they will not be able to open their own business and will generally be second-class people, or maybe third-class people), without providing basic conditions (food, clothing, etc.), you are at great risk of seriously undermining your health and not living at all until the pension that our state can guarantee you.
        And for my part, I’ll notice this not just empty words, if you are interested, you can see in the public domain information regarding the current state of our pension fund (its deficit and other interesting things).
        This is information for you to think about in a future dream.
        I think that what you see there will not make you very happy.
        Like most of our citizens.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 3 December 2013 22: 33 New
          +1
          Quote: wanderer_032
          And if you give birth to as many children as you wrote, while not providing them with a decent education

          The driver there, or a welder, or a tractor driver, the state will learn for free. The country needs people working in specialties, not parasites speculating on intimate services.
          1. wanderer_032
            wanderer_032 4 December 2013 08: 37 New
            0
            Well, I learned (I have 4 technical specialties), but I can not find work with a normal pay.
            Since they simply do not want to pay it, it’s easier for migrants to hire a bowl of soup than a skilled worker.
            Of course, this is not always the case, but where they pay there, as a rule, no one is required.
            There is another vice "nepotism", it is better to have a relative, even a stupid one, but will be attached.
            From the side you will not get there.
  42. The comment was deleted.
  43. wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 3 December 2013 18: 45 New
    +3
    I would like to add to the above.
    About what they kept silent about. About juvenile justice which hung over people with a "domocles" sword.
    For those who do not remember, this is a set of laws that they have recently been trying to smuggle through the State Duma.
    According to these laws, a parent is always to blame. And a dear child can, at any opportunity, lay it down to "good" aunts from care, even for the fact that you just forced to clean your room.
    And those "benefactors" who call to give birth to children are dragging it through.
    Remember last year when there was a peak in the withdrawal of children from completely normal families. Like whores from guardianship, feeling the ultimate truth under the guise of the police, they literally pulled the children out of the hands of their parents. And this is without a court decision, simply because they decided so and wanted to.
    And what kind of woman tell me (if she’s not a fool), after such examples, would like to live, so to speak, to give birth to a child with such a mess?
    No one is right. Anyone who doubts the veracity of what I have said can look for this info on their own, since it is in the public domain.
    This is information for you to think about, so to speak.
    1. Stanislas
      Stanislas 6 December 2013 11: 10 New
      0
      Quote: wanderer_032
      And those "benefactors" who call to give birth to children are dragging it through.
      Like foreman - foreman: cheating is not good. Juvenile justice is being transported by the same people who care about birth control in family planning centers.
  44. The comment was deleted.
  45. The comment was deleted.
  46. Vadim2013
    Vadim2013 3 December 2013 20: 04 New
    +1
    I have one daughter. I could not have a child for the reasons stated above.
  47. kaktus
    kaktus 3 December 2013 20: 23 New
    0
    Quote: lucidlook
    This is precisely what the "State must ..." is about. Not in the sense that someone puts it on the meter here, no, you can simply judge by comparison and by analogy with everything that the state gave back then, in those distant years, when we all gave it our ardor and our lives. Now what? ... just taxes? And even then ...


    And if the state is interested in preserving, especially in increasing the people, it should still invest in future workers and soldiers (roughly speaking). If the state is just a "hydraulic press", then we have what we have.

    Quote: wanderer_032
    And what kind of woman tell me (if she’s not a fool), after such examples, would like to live, so to speak, to give birth to a child with such a mess?


    Quote: Vadim2013
    I could not have a child for the reasons stated above


    Bans and slogans no longer work, over the past 100 years, strong immunity has developed. No.
  48. Cedar
    Cedar 3 December 2013 21: 06 New
    -1
    we ourselves are the men to blame for everything. and they blossomed themselves and dismissed their women ...
  49. Alexandr0id
    Alexandr0id 3 December 2013 23: 45 New
    +1
    off topic, of course, but could not miss such a heresy.
    A good example is Kosovo: it was taken from the Serbs by Albanian immigrants.

    enough of this nonsense about the poor Serbs and the Albanians who appeared from nowhere. Albanians, the indigenous people of the Western Balkans (Illyrians), lived there long before the appearance of the Serbs. after the Slavs came to the balkans in the 7th century, the indigenous population was driven out on the coast, however, after a thousand years in the Ottoman era, the Albanians began to return to Kosovo and actually in the 18th century became the main population there. it was only during the collapse of the Ottoman Empire that this region did not move to Albania, but to Serbia, which, however, did not change the ethnic composition of the region. so the withdrawal of Kosovo from Serbia is an absolutely logical process, as well as the collapse of Yugoslavia in general - an artificial country, such as present-day Iraq or Syria. only this could happen.
    1. Shur
      Shur 4 December 2013 00: 55 New
      0
      This is the opinion in Pedia "In the III century BC. The Hallstatt community disintegrates; the Celtic-Thracian La Tene culture is formed, hostile to the Illyrians. The Celts begin to push the Illyrians from the north, and the Greeks from the east. Celtization (a group of Illyro-Celtic tribes was formed).
      In the III century. BC e., when the Illyrians came into collision with the Romans, they were mainly at the stage of decomposition of the clan system (the first early class classes appeared among the South Ilyrian tribes even earlier: in the 2th century BC. at the Enheleans and in the XNUMXnd half of the XNUMXth century BC to the Tavlantians, in the middle of the XNUMXrd century BC to the Ardiyes).
      Subjugating neighboring tribes, the Ardiyes created an extensive power with the capital in Skodra (modern Shkoder). As a result of the so-called Illyrian wars (in 229–228, 219, 168–167 B.C.) between the Ardiyes and the Romans, the territory of the Ardiean power was conquered by the Romans (167 B.C.) and became part of the Roman Province of Macedonia (148 BC). The northern coastal areas inhabited by the Liburnians, Dalmatians and Iapods were conquered by the Romans in the 35nd – 33st centuries. BC e .; they were finally conquered during the Illyrian war of 13–9 years BC. e. At the same time, the Pannonian tribes on the middle Sava were conquered. In the years 6-9. BC e. the Romans conquered tribes north of the Sava until the middle reaches of the Danube. The tribes of inner Dalmatia (desityats, pirusts, etc.) were conquered by the Romans during the suppression of the Pannon-Dalmatian uprising of XNUMX-XNUMX years BC. e. The Illyrians underwent rapid and powerful romanization (especially on the coast and in cities).
      During the Great Migration, the Illyrians were finally assimilated; then the ancient Illyrian language also disappeared. "
    2. Shur
      Shur 4 December 2013 00: 55 New
      0
      Or here's another from there ee "According to the encyclopedic dictionary of Brockhaus and Efron, the Albanians are direct descendants of the ancient Pelasgians, whose language they have preserved until now, with those, of course, changes that have occurred in it over the millennia.
      The ethnogenesis of Albanians is extremely complicated and confusing, at this stage of the development of science (due to the lack of research on mitochondrial DNA), all theories about the ethnogenesis of the people are nothing more than free hypotheses. Based on the cash documents of the Bulgarian kingdom and the Byzantine Empire, the first mention of Albanians within the borders of the current state dates back to the XNUMXth century. At this time, their range is limited to the mountains of Northern Albania - Mirdita, Dukagini, Malissia. This conviction is supported by the dominance of Albanian (Shqip) toponyms in the region and the shortage of Slavic names so common in southern Albania (Laberia, Toscia).
      “When in 1041 the Byzantines again conquered Epirus and destroyed the domination of the Slavs, the ancient Illyrian local population began to rise and appear more and more definitely and independently under the new common name of the Albanians [7]”
      In the XII-XIV centuries, the Albanians were resettled from the northern mountains to the valleys and to the south, the assimilation of the earlier Romanized Illyrians and their complete disappearance. In the south of Albania, populated by Slavs, as well as Romanized Macedonians, Sarmatians and Venets (the latter are the starting point for aromuns), the language spreads without significant genetic influence of Albanians. This proposal is supported by the fact that, according to the anthropological type, Geghi-northerners are very diverse with a predominance of the Dinaric and East Caucasian type [source not specified 188 days], and southerners (melancholy and labs) belong mainly to the Alpine race and in some cases - with the influence of the Dinar and Indo-Iranian (Iranian-Afghan and Ferghana subraces) races [source not specified 188 days]. By the sixteenth century, assimilation of the Slavs and the Romanized population in the north of present-day Albania ends with a pin, and by the end of the seventeenth century the spread of the п pin-tongue language (the Tuscan version) in the south was in Laberia and Toscia.
      There are also later Slavic, Turkish and Greek influences, but these were predominantly local genetic or cultural in nature. "
      I agree with the dark source, but the phrase "The ethnogenesis of the Albanians is extremely complex and confusing, at this stage of the development of science (due to the lack of research on mitochondrial DNA) all theories about the ethnogenesis of the people are nothing more than free hypotheses" is very true.
      Many peoples in those days took the "names" of other peoples. It is nevertheless necessary to understand their ethnogenesis. Serbs of course all sorts, but as we can see, they were still driven from the land. Is this historical justice?
      1. Alexandr0id
        Alexandr0id 4 December 2013 22: 04 New
        +1
        with dna and haplogroups, everything is very complicated, in almost every modern ethnic group there are carriers of several (many) haplotypes. in fact, the origin of a nation is usually deduced from the language. that Albanian is a continuation of the Illyrian (I don’t know one or several) is undoubted. actually in the ancient Balkans it wasn’t so difficult with the languages ​​- the South Greeks, the West Illyrians, the East Thracians.
  50. Director
    Director 4 December 2013 00: 52 New
    -1
    A decrease in the birth rate is characteristic of all, without exception, urbanized countries.
    For an average urban family - a child, a serious source of expenses for 20 years in advance. The second child is sliding into poverty, the third is chronic poverty.
    Plus - the widespread infertility in modern urban boys and girls. The 21st century will be the last century of population growth. Further, a steady trend towards population decline. The white race will shrink faster and earlier than the rest.
    1. Stanislas
      Stanislas 8 December 2013 13: 28 New
      0
      Quote: Director
      A decrease in the birth rate is characteristic of all, without exception, urbanized countries.

      Why do some people like to tryndet? Qatar. The rural population is 4%. Fertility is estimated at 15,6 per 1000 population, mortality - 4,52 per 1000. Rummage, you will find many more examples so as not to write irresponsibly.