Military Review

Why Pogosyan's tail turns the rest of the dog - 2

97
Recently on the table among the mail found a letter. Signed letter! Because they were written by professionals who are ill for the cause, specialists of the famous Tupolev OJSC. Not retirees and pensioners. Its content fully confirms and systematizes a mass of scattered information that has accumulated in interviews and documents. And this is a view from the "inside", from the mysterious and dark depths of the domestic aircraft industry, bending under the control of effective manager M. Pogosyan. We give it with minor editing and a minimum of explanations.


“Arguments of the week” to the industrial policy department of Vladimir Leonov

Dear Vladimir!


Employees of Tupolev OJSC read with great interest your article “Why does Pogosyan’s tail spin the rest of the dog?” In 29 (371) from 01 in August 2013 of the year, which caused a lot of questions and discussions. The article is undoubtedly correct and topical, but there are thoughts about the absolute irresponsibility and lawlessness of senior officials and leaders of the country for their decisions and the results of their activities. Recently, there have been many publications in the media about the ineffective activity of the United Aircraft Building Corporation (OAK) and its head, M.A. Pogosyan, but "things are there."

It is good that Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin understands that the civilian market aviation in the Russian Federation is largely lost by our industrialists and production workers, and it is urgently necessary to restore the prestige of the design bureaus. But manufacturers and designers are placed in conditions that lead to the complete collapse of their enterprises. As for the measures taken, it was just the creation of the KLA. As it came to society, this measure will make it possible to gather all the remaining production and design forces into a "fist". But it turned out that the KLA created to maintain only the corporate interests of individuals, industries and intermediary missions for possible projects of other, foreign, firms.

As for the tender for a new regional aircraft, a small inaccuracy has crept into your article. Two projects competed: Tu-414 with the layout on the 70 seats (and not its “short” basic modification of the Tu-324, as we wrote. - Editor's note.) of the company “Tupolev” and Sukhoi Civil Aircraft CJSC RRJ-75. All the conclusions of the industry institutions and the State Civil Aviation Institute for the Tu-414 project were positive. According to the expert council for the preparation of tender documents, the draft of the new regional aircraft Tu-414 corresponds to the appearance of the new generation of aircraft, is competitive with Western counterparts CRJ-700, EJ-170 and Russian-Ukrainian An-148. According to the same expert council, RRJ did not meet the requirements of the technical specifications (TK) for the competitive development of a new regional aircraft.

Without taking into account the inefficient aerodynamics of the RRJ aircraft, its risky layout for operation and the fact that GSS CJSC had no experience in building civil aircraft, the representative of the commission, Yu.N. Koptev, General Director of Rosaviakosmos. It was decided to approve the project RRJ as the winner. It was by this decision that Koptev laid a negative result in the creation of this aircraft, and no one corrected it. But this is a matter of national importance.

As a result of the received and “assimilated” multi-billion budget funds, GSS CJSC created a completely non-regional SSJ-100 (Dry Superjet 100), low reliability and inefficient in operation. This is called the misuse of budget funds, but it does not bother anyone and does not interest. The unsuccessful SSJ-100 of Pogosyan "crossed the road" not only for the Tu-414, but also for the larger short-range Tu-334.

Confirmation of the negative activities of the KLA (to put it mildly) is the project to modernize the Tu-204CM aircraft. KLA acted in the framework of these development work (R & D) not only as the Main Executive, but also as the Customer. (So ​​here is the result of the aviation industry reform! - Approx. Ed.) Having received budget funds in 2008, UAC ordered the developer of the Tu-204 Tupolev JSC drawings and certification works, production of the aircraft - Aviastar-SP; modernization of the main engine - Aviadvigatel OJSC, AU VSIL - Aerosil, NPO - MIEA, KSCV - NPO Nauka, etc.

As a result, Tu-204CM airplanes for certification tests were manufactured at a low quality level; technical conditions (TU) didn’t even stipulate warranty obligations on the aircraft side of the production plant and manufacturing plants for components (CI). A large number of components installed on the aircraft, were recorded in the forms: "Suitable for testing."

"Superjet" by industry

The state required (and is required to this day) a regional aircraft on 70 – 75 seats. But Mr. Pogosyan’s RRJ, due to the lack of civil aviation engineering at the last school, began to gain weight and dimensions. And the swollen on the eyes of RRJ-75 (Russian Regional Jet) from the regional turned into the trunk SSJ-100, where it was already a long time certified and ready for mass production of Tu-334 on the 102 passenger. The “Superjet” didn’t become a regional horse - the design is too delicate, it doesn’t suit flying on fly-wrenches. Airline operators are now tormenting him - super-aircraft too often have equipment failures. But with Pogosyan’s hands, all possible financial resources of the industry are redirected to this liner. Accordingly, the “Tupolev” machines, the Tu-204CM and Tu-334, for which there are real customers, have nothing to do with the head of the KLA, except for deaf irritation.


Tupolev OJSC was forced to take a glider with equipment installed on it for certification testing, as it is written in the Agreement with Aviastar-SP CJSC for the rental of Tu-204CM prototype aircraft. In the course of certification tests, we had to deal with bringing the aircraft systems to a typical design and constantly eliminating failures (engines, APU, KSKV units and other equipment). At the direction of Pogosyan, Aviastar-SP CJSC ceased the production of the third prototype Tu-204CM, which was scheduled for certification tests, which means that the test periods were lengthened.

When the main budget funds were mastered, the KLA "stepped aside." In 2011, contracts for the completion of work on the modernization and certification of Tu-204SM aircraft Tupolev OJSC entered into directly with the Ministry of Industry and Trade. The certification period (31.07.2012) of the aircraft was disrupted, and the Ministry of Industry and Trade set up “Tupolev” fines in the amount of about 32 million rubles. To complete the certification of the aircraft, JSC Tupolev was forced to take funds from the KLA 845 million rubles under the loan agreement. Taking into account that OJSC Tupolev has nothing to give this money, it becomes obvious: UAC brings Tupolev to bankruptcy.

Now an addition to the type certificate has been received, but the Tu-204CM has no buyer. UAC, which ordered this aircraft, it does not care. Concerns on the promotion of the aircraft to the market have now moved to OAO Tupolev. It seems that the fate of the Tu-204CM will be the same as that of the Tu-334. Pogosyan’s position is known: “There is no Tu ‑ 204CM aircraft - there is no competitor to my Superjet.

As for the measures taken, which mentioned the DM. Rogozin, the country's top leadership back in the year 2011 "chopped off" all the attempts of a potential customer A.Ye. Lebedeva buy 44 Tu-204SM aircraft for the Red Wings airline.

The multibillion-dollar squandering of Pogosyan's budget funds at the level of defendants in the Oboronservis case may seem like "pranks" if you carefully consider the collapse of the Tupolev design bureau, the only one in the country that is still capable of creating passenger aircraft and strategic missile carriers.

As a result of transformations carried out at the company MA. Pogosyan and A.P. Bobryshev (General Director of Tupolev OJSC, Pogosyan's appointee - Ed.), All kinds of directorates and structures that are not functionally connected are organized, there are no new projects. Therefore, young cadres do not see prospects for themselves, the old ones are freed from their obligations, and they could still help in their work.

In OJSC Tupolev there is no separation of designers on civil and military subjects, and the collapse of the civil sector pulls the military. Work on the creation of a promising long-range aviation complex (PAK DA), the modernization of Tu-22MZ and Tu-160 aircraft (supersonic carriers of strategic weapons. - Approx. Ed.) just "stalled." This question should be of particular interest to Deputy Prime Minister Dm. Rogozin.

The plundering of budget funds, the collapse of aviation enterprises and as a result: huge material losses, lost profits in the aviation industry - actions that should be of interest to law enforcement agencies. But for some reason this is not. And the moral damage from these acts? In OJSC "Tupolev" the pilot production and bench facilities are completely collapsed. The workers, to whom the Tu company has its own, my own, tears come to my eyes when they see corps of residential houses that have grown on the site of the enterprise’s workshops. Who will answer for all this?

As for your publication, its result is the dismissal of V.I. Skrypnik. Under pressure from the leadership, he had to resign, as they say, "punishing the innocent." For this reason, people did not sign this review on your article by name.

Demonstrating Agreements

After the MAKS-2013 creaked, because of the reluctance of Pogosyan, the Ilyushin Finance Co. leasing company still signed agreements on the supply of twenty Tu-204CM to Red Wings domestic airlines and VIM-Avia, it seemed , you can not worry about the fate of a good Russian liner. But it was not there! To translate the agreement into a firm contract, the KLA creates a working group. And silence ... It is the same as in the "Tupolev" part of the shops of the Aviastar-SP aircraft factory in Ulyanovsk. Recently I saw there the fuselages of the unfinished Tu-204 frozen on the stocks.

Near any worker. I wondered why? The answer confirmed the information from the letter - Pogosyan has forbidden to engage in this aircraft. But Aviastar was still lucky, the work was thrown up by his native Defense Ministry - in a gigantic workshop, they were working hard on the first three serial military transport Il-76MD-90А. It is pleasant to watch - the masses of heavy machines are stuck from top to bottom by the assembly experts, the lights are twinkling, the tool is rustling. And behind the gates, on the court, - “misleading Cossack”: they are preparing to roll back the next “Superjet” for Aeroflot for painting. In the airline he is not very happy, but there is no way to refuse - the administrative resource of the KLA President is great and powerful.

Employees of JSC "Tupolev"
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  1. Lyapis
    Lyapis 28 November 2013 07: 10
    -9
    Oh, God, Poghosyan is to blame again!
    Of course, it's a pity that Tu is now experiencing hard times, but perhaps the root of the problems should be sought not in the evil machinations of the head of Sukhoi, but in the incompetence and lack of initiative of its own management, which is unable to effectively defend and promote the interests of its company.
    1. predator.3
      predator.3 28 November 2013 08: 34
      18
      Quote: Lyapis
      but in the incompetence and lack of initiative of their own leadership, which is not capable of effectively defending and promoting the interests of their company.


      In your opinion, it turns out the wrong way, the wrong way! But there is one thing, but before that we all know SU produced excellent fighters, and Tupolevs are mostly bombers, passenger, by the way, also of good quality, so why did you have to cross roads! Everyone would be engaged in their own garden, or rather a project.

      1. vladimirZ
        vladimirZ 28 November 2013 09: 18
        +3
        so why did you have to cross each other's roads! Everyone would be engaged in their own garden, or rather a project.


        What are you, and what about the allocated budgetary funds, unless Pogosyan and Co. will allow someone else to "cut" them. Your pocket is more expensive.
        Yes, plus a commission for intermediary services from foreign companies for the leaders of the UAC for the supply of components for the Superjet.
        So, what kind of Tu, Il, An can be here, their "native" foreign, bringing money to the tune - this is the task of the tasks. And the fact that no one needs this Superjet is the tenth thing.
        1. Felix2012
          Felix2012 28 November 2013 11: 10
          +3
          There were three resolutions for the "wonderful" TU 334, money was allocated, but there was no plane. The rigging was on the "brotherly" Ukraine, the price was charged for it, as for a Boeing assembly plant
          1. Gluxar_
            Gluxar_ 28 November 2013 18: 17
            -2
            Quote: Felix2012
            There were three resolutions for the "wonderful" TU 334, money was allocated, but there was no plane. The rigging was on the "brotherly" Ukraine, the price was charged for it, as for a Boeing assembly plant

            Well, Tu worked at one time with a Boeing. But in 20 years, he did not create anything sensible or brought it to an acceptable level. But he sold his production sites well to private business.
        2. Cherdak
          Cherdak 28 November 2013 15: 04
          0
          Quote: vladimirZ
          And the fact that nobody needs this Superjet


          Paradox of "Superjet"
          And recently, the first results were summed up, which turned out to be quite unexpected. In Mexico, cars dangle like primordial ones: if the average daily SSJ100 fleet in Aeroflot, as reported by pilots on blogs, rarely exceeds 4,5 hours (in Muscovy - 7,2 hours), in Mexico in the first 4 weeks the maximum flight time was higher than 11 hours, and operational reliability was more than 99%. 738 flights have been completed for a total of over 794 flight hours. Only 7 delays were recorded for an average of 23 minutes. Airplanes performed per day before 16 (!) Flights.


          So it is with the Tupolevites. Poghosyan writhed in the dashing 90s and kept his export, and now envy among the Tupolevites is pouring over the edge.
          OJSC Tupolev took from the UAC funds in the amount of 845 million rubles under a loan agreement. Considering that there is nothing to give Tupolev OJSC, it becomes obvious: UAC brings Tupolev to bankruptcy (! ???).
          Funds famously spoiled, and again Poghosyan is to blame !!!
          Poghosyan’s position is well known: “There is no Tu-204SM aircraft - there is no competitor to my Superjet.”
          1. alexbg2
            alexbg2 28 November 2013 17: 02
            +4
            Quote: Cherdak

            And recently the first results were summed up, which turned out to be quite unexpected. In Mexico, cars are running around like zapoloshnye: if the average daily flight time of the SSJ100 fleet in Aeroflot, as pilots report in their blogs, rarely exceeds 4,5 hours (in Moskovia - 7,2 hours), in Mexico in the first 4 weeks the maximum the flight time was above 11 hours,

            We are engaged in fraud, we compare the average daily raid in Russia with the maximum daily raid in Mexico.
            On an average daily raid, Mexican Superjets are not yet better than Russian:
            ... On November 6, the third SSJ 100 aircraft (serial number 95028) landed in Toluca (Mexico). He is currently preparing to enter the line. So far, Interjet has two SSJ 100s flying (serial numbers 95023 and 95024). Their commercial operation began on September 18, as of November 10, two aircraft completed 738 flights, flying 794 hours. It turns out that for 54 days of operation the average flight time was 7,35 hours per day ...

            Source: http://superjet.wikidot.com/news:600
            It is incomparably smaller. than for example it was on the same Tu-204:
            ... Vladivostok Air, which operates six Tu-204-300 airliners, reports an average monthly flight time in 2009 of 284 hours on board, while in 2009 two airliners consistently had over 300 hours of flight per month, and a year earlier another pair of boards reached the level of 415-430 hours per month ...

            Source: http://airspot.ru/news/ekonomika-i-finansy/lizing-po-sheme-quot-vse-vklyucheno-q
            uot
            1. Cherdak
              Cherdak 28 November 2013 17: 18
              -5
              Quote: alexbg2
              We are engaged in fraud


              http://www.rg.ru/2013/11/28/superjet.html

              In any case, the experience of Mexicans showed: how the plane is served and planned, so it flies, the rest is talk in favor of the poor.

              There are about 200 firm orders for the aircraft.
          2. Gluxar_
            Gluxar_ 28 November 2013 18: 19
            0
            Quote: Cherdak
            So it is with the Tupolevites. Poghosyan writhed in the dashing 90s and kept his export, and now envy among the Tupolevites is pouring over the edge.
            OJSC Tupolev took from the UAC funds in the amount of 845 million rubles under a loan agreement. Considering that there is nothing to give Tupolev OJSC, it becomes obvious: UAC brings Tupolev to bankruptcy (! ???).
            Funds famously spoiled, and again Poghosyan is to blame !!!

            I am glad that at least one sane person was found in this topic. And then some all-enforcers.
          3. alone
            alone 28 November 2013 19: 49
            +1
            Quote: Cherdak
            Money famously spoiled,


            Your only mistake is that they didn’t dash the money, but simply misappropriated it! And the appropriated money will never be returned.
        3. Gluxar_
          Gluxar_ 28 November 2013 18: 16
          -1
          Quote: vladimirZ
          What are you, and what about the allocated budgetary funds, unless Pogosyan and Co. will allow someone else to "cut" them. Your pocket is more expensive.
          Yes, plus a commission for intermediary services from foreign companies for the leaders of the UAC for the supply of components for the Superjet.
          So, what kind of Tu, Il, An can be here, their "native" foreign, bringing money to the tune - this is the task of the tasks. And the fact that no one needs this Superjet is the tenth thing.

          What is the Russian habit of devouring shit without thinking and then using the same shit on the neighbors? Before you even write nonsense, understand the real facts of events, look at official chronicles and performances in that period, starting from '99. Look who really created the production in Russia, and who handed over their shops and design bureaus to businessmen for a rollback. Who privatized state-owned facilities according to gray schemes and not in the 94th, but in 2004. Understand the financing structure of the SCA and state participation.
          Why do people hawala shit without looking at it closely and not understanding what lies before them?
      2. Felix2012
        Felix2012 28 November 2013 11: 07
        +6
        Tupolev perfectly mastered the new Russian business leasing space. More than anything good has not been seen recently
        1. Rus2012
          Rus2012 28 November 2013 13: 09
          +2
          Quote: Felix2012
          Tupolev perfectly mastered the new Russian business leasing space.


          Alas, alas ...
          The circumstances have changed, and along with the methods.
          It's me that we have been going on over 20 years since 1991 years.
          Aviation Russia - nobody in the world needs it!
          Therefore, it was necessary:
          1. Destroy what was in the Union
          2. If item 1 is not fulfilled for one reason or another, then "lead" the remnants and lead to a dead end, into the abyss ... well, in short, away from the main line.

          Currently, we see the execution of p.2 just.
          Try to remove this extinguisher and you will immediately see the threads who "dance" it ...
      3. Lyapis
        Lyapis 28 November 2013 11: 31
        +4
        In your opinion, it turns out the wrong way, the wrong way!

        These are your words, not mine.
        I said that in the 90s, both design bureaus were in an equally bad situation. But, for some reason, the Sukhoi company was able to overcome this crisis, break out into the leaders of the global aviation industry and even enter the previously unaffected area of ​​civil aviation. And all this is under the leadership of the vile budget money drinker Poghosyan (I am not claiming that he is a righteous and crystal honest person, but nevertheless ...). At the same time, the Tupalevites have not been able to imagine a single competitive project for 20 years, but they regularly continue to whine about how evil people destroy one of their aircraft after another (Tu-334, 134, 204SM).
      4. Reasonable, 2,3
        Reasonable, 2,3 28 November 2013 15: 14
        -2
        Why are you attached to Poghosyan? The person is in the right place. You have found the extreme. Look, train on cats.
      5. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 28 November 2013 18: 10
        -1
        Quote: predator.3
        In your opinion, it turns out the wrong way, the wrong way! But there is one thing, but before that we all know SU produced excellent fighters, and Tupolevs are mostly bombers, passenger, by the way, also of good quality, so why did you have to cross roads! Everyone would be engaged in their own garden, or rather a project.

        Who crossed the road to whom? When was the GSS created? In the early 2000s thousandths. In fact, from scratch. Where was Tu at that time? Why didn’t they release anything? And the fact that now there are cases of illegal privatization of Tu property in the period 2001-2006, speaks of the effectiveness of the leadership of Tu?
    2. Baron Wrangell
      Baron Wrangell 28 November 2013 08: 37
      10
      Quote: Lyapis
      Of course, it's a pity that Tu is now experiencing hard times, but perhaps the root of the problems should be sought not in the evil machinations of the head of Sukhoi, but in the incompetence and lack of initiative of its own management, which is unable to effectively defend and promote the interests of its company.


      I wanted to minus your fabrication, but changed my mind. I will explain why.
      You are apparently a far cry from engineering, or rather, far from working in factories and enterprises owned by corporations with headquarters in Moscow.
      In this letter, TU employees described the problem of all industries. How even the ingenious management of the enterprise can manage if the head sits in in another city.
      Not so simple, I can say about my company. The central leadership needs only one thing - money, the rest does not bother him. He doesn’t care about people, personnel, production, social programs, sometimes the so-called managers do not know the difference between a turner and a milling machine operator. But they know a bunch of foreign words and terms.
      And here the opportunity to cut the budget is promoted to the fullest. Poghosyan also took advantage of the situation. You think he cares about the country's defense capabilities, I’m sure that he’s not, most likely his accounts abroad, the children of his grandchildren study abroad, the Son is like the same thief.
      1. Felix2012
        Felix2012 28 November 2013 11: 11
        +3
        Tupolev’s leadership rents out a lot, is Poghosyan to blame ??
        1. military
          military 28 November 2013 13: 22
          +2
          Quote: Felix2012
          Tupolev’s leadership rents out a lot, is Poghosyan to blame ??

          maybe he is renting out precisely because the portfolio of orders has been minimized by someone's "prayers"? ... but taxes must be paid regularly for the area ... they must be heated, so as not to ditch ... we must somehow try to keep the staff. ..
          but about "guilty - not guilty" ... no need to play "daisy" ... we have too many innocent people ... and the higher they climb, the more "righteous" they become ...
        2. Rus2012
          Rus2012 28 November 2013 15: 00
          +3
          Quote: Felix2012
          Tupolev’s leadership rents out a lot, is Poghosyan to blame ??

          By the way, about the areas ...
          Once it was possible to take them in order to at least help out something, when everything stood.
          But, for some time now, this has become both unprofitable and not possible: the real estate of state corporations is managed by other structures.
          And from the once powerful KB Tu in Msk there were only a few buildings under their jurisdiction. And from there they are driven to Zhukovsky, where they want to dump the rest of all in one pile, in the so-called. air center ... None of the old cadres will master this move. As you know, one move is equal to several fires. Mb detractors wish this.
          It may well be that all the remnants of Tu can gather in Kazan ...
    3. Canep
      Canep 28 November 2013 10: 31
      10
      Quote: Lyapis
      Oh, God, Poghosyan is to blame again!

      Poghosyan simply being the director of the monopolist of the United Aircraft Corporation pushes the design bureaus in which he worked. Putin himself is to blame for creating this monopolist. Now the whole country will fly to SU. Assign Velmozhkin or Viktor Livanov there and you can forget about the PAK FA, all the loot will go to Ilyushin’s planes. This monopoly (Su MiG Il) must be divided into three aircraft building corporations, competition has not harmed anyone, it was understood by Comrade. Stalin and designers did not drive into one stable.
      1. avt
        avt 28 November 2013 10: 50
        +8
        Quote: Canep
        This monopoly (Su MiG Il) must be divided into three aircraft building corporations, competition has not harmed anyone, it was understood by Comrade. Stalin and designers did not drive into one stable.

        More precisely, there was such an attempt when the Central Design Bureau was created, but it was quickly abandoned due to inefficiency and the lack of a quick and high-quality result. We switched to competing design bureaus, also not without sin, and who could use resources and pressure, but there was no such blatant bl ... .
      2. Kyrgyz
        Kyrgyz 28 November 2013 10: 55
        0
        Quote: Canep
        Poghosyan simply being the director of the monopolist of the United Aircraft Corporation pushes the design bureaus in which he worked. Putin himself is to blame for creating this monopolist. Now the whole country will fly to SU. Assign Velmozhkin or Viktor Livanov there and you can forget about the PAK FA, all the loot will go to Ilyushin’s planes. This monopoly (Su MiG Il) must be divided into three aircraft building corporations, competition has not harmed anyone, it was understood by Comrade. Stalin and designers did not drive into one stable.

        If Putin hadn't driven everyone into a herd, they would have already bent one at a time, so even if the appetites of the top echelon are economical (one general is better than six), there is no market for everyone, if you find funds for the purchase of aircraft as Comrade Stalin did, you can run into places "I think your family will suffer. UAC decides the issue rather not so much the formation of aviation as entering the world market, which is densely occupied with products of a very high level, and there is still nothing to compete with.
        1. avt
          avt 28 November 2013 11: 49
          +1
          Quote: Kyrgyz
          UAC solves the issue more likely not so much the formation of aviation as access to the world market densely occupied with products of a very high level, and so far there is nothing to compete

          request Here are the ones on!? But what about the superpuper created on the highest achievements with the advice of Boeing and with international cooperation !? That is, you confirm the opinion of the "spiteful critics" in the fact that the super turned out to be just a drain of the budget money ?? laughing
          1. Rus2012
            Rus2012 28 November 2013 15: 06
            0
            Quote: avt
            super turned out just a drain budget dummy ??

            ... this is a specially-drawn-in foreign direction in order to divert a competitor to the side, something that neither a watermelon nor a Boeing can do ...
            Glory be to Allah, even though the Anglo-Saxons were finally thought to fuse ...
            1. avt
              avt 28 November 2013 17: 18
              +2
              Quote: Rus2012
              Glory be to Allah, even though the Anglo-Saxons finally thought up the rafting

              Well, no, if this happens and the SCA leadership quietly makes itself a warm place in the UK, then, as I wrote earlier, there will be no production there. They simply merge money and securities for speculation on the stock exchange. Well, we will have debts, iron and a headache. Managers regularly do such feints, nothing new.
          2. Kyrgyz
            Kyrgyz 28 November 2013 17: 25
            0
            Quote: avt
            That is, you confirm the opinion of the "spiteful critics" in the fact that the super turned out to be just a drain of the budget babal ??

            There was a larger drain earlier, when there was nothing in return, now at least something, see 21 ms, of course they dig a part of the dough, but no one has any medicine for this yet.
            Do you think it is necessary to enter the market with TU204 against airbuses?
      3. nov_tech.vrn
        nov_tech.vrn 28 November 2013 13: 07
        +3
        If you appoint Viktor Livanov as the director, there will be nothing but dandruff, of course, he must be with his son, taught at some lyceum for the preparation of waiters, well, in the last resort, a hotel service, there will be an effective educational institution with a high percentage of employment and maybe even for the border.
      4. EvilLion
        EvilLion 28 November 2013 22: 50
        -2
        Apparently it was necessary to leave everyone to die alone, while Sukhoi would still be afloat.
    4. Felix2012
      Felix2012 28 November 2013 10: 36
      +1
      Yeah, "unreliable"

      http://superjet.wikidot.com/news:603
      1. alexbg2
        alexbg2 28 November 2013 13: 29
        +3
        Quote: Felix2012
        Yeah, "unreliable"
        http://superjet.wikidot.com/news:603

        And what follows from this article? The magic of numbers, crafty data manipulation. If the average daily raid for Russian companies in the SSJ100 in this article is given, then for some unknown reason (of course, driven!), For the Mexican Interjet for some reason the data on the maximum daily raid is given. Two non-comparable quantities are compared. It is simply indecent and ugly.
        Although the previous article http://superjet.wikidot.com/news:600 contains data on the average daily raid for Interjet, 7,35 hours. The result is not outstanding, at the operating level in Russia.
    5. nov_tech.vrn
      nov_tech.vrn 28 November 2013 13: 00
      +1
      in Voronezh, the ears of this head are also sticking out, by the way, I just can't go to the site where the announcement of the introduction of the law on confiscation of property in the State Duma, a very necessary law, would please many people and many people "gladden".
    6. svp67
      svp67 28 November 2013 13: 37
      +2
      Quote: Lyapis
      Oh, God, Poghosyan is to blame again!
      Debt payment is red. Tupolev so densely and efficiently spread rot at the Sukhoi Design Bureau that now it looks like he is getting a "response"
      1. evil hamster
        evil hamster 28 November 2013 16: 36
        -2
        Well, you can still remember about Myasishchev, it was such a design bureau, they even said the bombers did ... So, who really would have to sit up and shut up.
    7. Gluxar_
      Gluxar_ 28 November 2013 18: 05
      +3
      Quote: Lyapis
      Oh, God, Poghosyan is to blame again!
      Of course, it's a pity that Tu is now experiencing hard times, but perhaps the root of the problems should be sought not in the evil machinations of the head of Sukhoi, but in the incompetence and lack of initiative of its own management, which is unable to effectively defend and promote the interests of its company.

      Article minus. Another vyser. I didn’t even finish reading it. There are no names who write this or posts. Typical anonymity of followers.
      And they are trying to dispute our society with such a slag? There are no facts and not a single reliable figure. Typical all prosralipolymers stole. Tu failed because of an ineffective policy and because when the fleet was 60% of the Tu-154, they did nothing for the future and lived today. precisely because in TU everyone mixed up both the citizen and the military, nothing sensible is obtained. Su, unlike Tu, organized everything correctly, because there are T-50 and Su-30 / Su-35 and much more. And when they decided to create a superjet, they did not draw resources from military programs, but created a new company from scratch. And this zero company has achieved more results than the legendary Tu with all its capabilities. What state support is it talking about? There are no digits in the article. How much government funds did the SSJ-100 master? If the GSS company itself was created on borrowed funds. The state allocated 7 billion rubles for this program. This is less than 15% of the current project cost. These were measures of state support, but not state financing.
      Today there is a whole wave of shit on the SCA and personally on Poghosyan, because he just achieved the results. The results of which the old-type Tu cannot even imagine. The SSJ-100 aircraft are bought by foreign companies, and domestic ones fly. The aircraft is unpretentious in operation and the initial equipment failures are associated with "childhood diseases". This does not happen on a full set.
      Tu really feel sorry. Like any domestic production. But if this production only wants to pull budget financing and not change, then we do not need such a ballast.
      The experience and achievements of Tu will not be lost; within the framework of the UAC, there will be application for everything. But all vysery need to end.
  2. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 28 November 2013 07: 11
    +9
    Poghosyan’s tail turns the dog because head(Kremlin) allows you to twirl. hi
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 28 November 2013 08: 03
      +8
      Here they give Poghosyan money — he has the opportunity to invest it in the development, but at TU, where are the grandmas?
      1. Felix2012
        Felix2012 28 November 2013 11: 12
        +4
        grandmas give them. They simply failed to modernize the TU-22, the military switched to Hephaestus, to modernize the TU 22. Is Poghosyan again to blame ??
  3. makarov
    makarov 28 November 2013 07: 13
    +9
    SW Edition
    If possible, post a RESPONSE to the above letter.
    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak 28 November 2013 19: 27
      -4
      Quote: makarov
      post ANSWER to the above letter



      see http://superjet.wikidot.com - there are picking up the sketches of "all-spreading people"
  4. Mikhail m
    Mikhail m 28 November 2013 07: 18
    14
    Is it only in the aircraft industry that this happens? The dominance of "effective managers" is in the rank of public policy.
  5. Same lech
    Same lech 28 November 2013 07: 23
    +9
    The state required (and is still required) a regional aircraft with 70–75 seats.

    According to the policy of the KREMLIN, this is not very noticeable; it is more profitable for them to buy BOEINGS and AERs.
    Spit IM on civil aviation RUSSIA.
    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak 28 November 2013 19: 31
      -2
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      According to the policy of the KREMLIN, this is not very noticeable; it is more profitable for them to buy BOEINGS and AERs.



      And what is this nonsense? Look at the list of Russian airlines and their owners http://aviakompaniya.info/aviakompanii-rossii-spisok

      Now, is it not only the Pogosyan’s sabotage that is heard, but the evil Putin is to blame?
  6. svskor80
    svskor80 28 November 2013 07: 52
    +4
    Healthy competition is always required. It’s bad, of course, if the SSJ-100 won exclusively because of the backstage management activities, but I think this aircraft has its own positive qualities due to which it got on the conveyor.
    1. Felix2012
      Felix2012 28 November 2013 11: 05
      +1
      Mexicans are chasing him in the tail and mane, they are not overjoyed, they say this is the best they had, and they had and still have the A320.
      Those. CCG is not compared with the embairer and scorer, but with an airbus and a Boeing.
      What is just super
      As for the Tupolevs, it was the Poghosyan who forced them to rent all the areas under the business center ?? !!
      Tupolev failed to upgrade TU 22, I’m afraid they will also fail PAKDA, but already they will bring down Pogosyan
  7. Ihrek
    Ihrek 28 November 2013 08: 00
    +6
    It is painful to look at our civil aviation industry. Respectful states are trying to create their own aircraft industry from scratch, but we cannot normally develop what we already have.
    1. Andrey57
      Andrey57 28 November 2013 09: 14
      +2
      You, dear, are mistaken, this very domestic civil aviation industry is deliberately crushed by such "effective managers" as Poghosyan, who is just another thief who successfully fits into the system of a thieves' state, and as it is rightly said, he does not care about the country's defense capability or the development of the aircraft industry he only cares about his own pockets. There are no sovereign people left in the country, sadness ...
      1. Felix2012
        Felix2012 28 November 2013 11: 14
        0
        Recall the models of Soviet aircraft ordered from Western airlines?
    2. AVV
      AVV 28 November 2013 11: 15
      +3
      But they buy imported trash, saving money in the first place, and passengers and their opinion are not interested in the UAC !!!
    3. Cherdak
      Cherdak 28 November 2013 19: 36
      -3
      Quote: Jamal
      Respectful states try to create their own aircraft industry from scratch


      This is a pearl!

      Read the "Geography of the Aviation Industry of the World." Smart student Mustafina did a good job at http://www.coolreferat.com/Geography_aviation_promy
  8. Alex66
    Alex66 28 November 2013 08: 09
    +1
    but there are thoughts about the absolute irresponsibility and lawlessness of senior officials and leaders of the country for the decisions made and the results of their activities.
    Yes, not one has yet laid down on the rails, has not sat down, has not answered for not fulfilling promises.
    It is necessary for everyone who is chosen or appointed to report on the fulfillment of instructions or election promises, if they are not fulfilled, they should be removed from office and obligated to indemnify.
  9. sheih_merden
    sheih_merden 28 November 2013 08: 09
    +4
    Destruction of a competitor usually leads to complete relaxation and a fall in intellectual superiority. Poghosyan, by virtue of his mentality, is not able to understand that his corporation will begin to fall down just from the moment any competitor completely disappears. Simple laws of survival. Any creature that defeats a competitor, at first has laziness, then fat, then illness, and then is not able to withstand even fleas. The history of countries and corporations is full of similar examples. And the most difficult thing to manage is precisely that there is no one to focus on (there are no examples of other people's mistakes and achievements). Even the stagnant Kremlin elders understood this.
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 28 November 2013 09: 00
      +3
      quote-Unsuccessful SSJ-100 Poghosyan “crossed the road” not only to the Tu-414, but also to the larger short-range Tu-334.
      quote-Pogosyan’s multi-billion dollar squandering of budget funds in the Oboronservis case may seem like “pranks” if you carefully consider the collapse of the Tupolev Design Bureau - the only one in the country that is still capable of creating passenger aircraft and strategic missile carriers.

      I believe that it is time for the Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation and the leadership of the FSB to come to grips with this Poghosyan, in order to check his disorganized criminal activities and sabotage. I am more than sure that during the examination by the investigating authorities, his thefts in the industry will also be revealed, and such that the Oboronservis case will be flowers compared to the criminal case initiated against Poghosyan.
      1. Valery Neonov
        Valery Neonov 28 November 2013 10: 22
        +2
        It would be good, of course, but who will allow them (SK) to do this, the effect of "déjà vu", you don’t think ... It hurts "feeding trough" for some "nourishing" ... hi
      2. typhoon7
        typhoon7 28 November 2013 22: 12
        0
        I agree, order needs to be put in place, and not only in the aviation industry. The trouble is that at the top, in the government, and even the GDP has financiers, managers and just loyal people, the story with Serdyukov only confirms everything. There are no teams of industrialists, namely, they are now critically lacking, and the State. The Duma is also manual. This is already a system. Next is politics.
    2. Felix2012
      Felix2012 28 November 2013 11: 19
      +3
      The KLA has competitors: Boeing, Airbus, Bombardier, Embraer.
      1. not good
        not good 28 November 2013 14: 26
        +3
        These are not competitors for the KLA, but sponsors of the funeral of the Russian aviation industry. KLA competitors must be created in RUSSIA, at least by creating a second KLA and bringing into it half of the existing design bureaus, then it will be more difficult to justify oneself, and in captivity you have to work, otherwise you will lose.
        1. vladimirZ
          vladimirZ 29 November 2013 06: 21
          0
          KLA competitors must be created in RUSSIA, at least by creating a second KLA and bringing there half of the existing design bureaus, ...


          In my opinion, it is necessary to create two UAC:
          one - on military aircraft Su, MiG;
          the second - UAC civil aircraft - Tu, Il for the production of passenger, transport and heavy strategists.
          It is not true that Su, who had been specializing in fighter-bombers all her life, began to make passenger cars. In passenger aircraft, everything is different: norms, requirements, operating conditions of the aircraft.
          If this is not done, Russia will lose its traditional niches in aircraft manufacturing, design bureaus.
  10. Ustas
    Ustas 28 November 2013 09: 28
    0
    the representative of the commission - the general director of Rosaviakosmos Yu.N. Koptev it was decided to approve the RRJ project as the winner of the competition.

    I wonder how much this representative got kickback?
    1. Felix2012
      Felix2012 28 November 2013 11: 15
      +1
      The CSJ received the money because Sukhoi kept the production, but Tuplevy did not. That's the whole story
  11. EvilLion
    EvilLion 28 November 2013 09: 53
    +9
    They destroyed the design bureau, and now Poghosyan is to blame, I am convinced once again that the Tupolev design bureau is impotent not only technically, but also morally. "Misha, you make wonderful fighters, but you can't do passenger planes, give it back!" Those familiar with the history of aviation will immediately remember where it came from, and that it was not Misha, but Pasha (Pavel Sukhoi), and not an airliner, but a bomber, but this does not change the essence. The main thing is that having merged in due time in the competition for the Tupolev supersonic bomber on the trail. day began demanded from Sukhoi to give the project (T-4-100) to him. The motivation, as we can see, is the same; for several decades, the Tupolev Design Bureau did not come up with not only new aircraft, but even not so rotten excuses. It is not surprising that we also have problems with the Tu-22M3, because for this we need to work, and not write complaints, whine about harassment, and in the end not be responsible for anything.
    For 20 years, the Tu-334 could have been sold 100500 times, if someone needed it, in fact the Tupolevs could not really sell the Tu-204. KLA has existed since the 2006 of the year, why didn’t anyone buy anything from the Tupolevs for the 15 of the post-Soviet years? Because Tu-334 sucks. That's all. Nobody needs a liner with rear engines (anyone who remembers the IL-62 can shut up right away, he is the clearest example of all the weight problems that such aircraft have), and the third crew members, who also fly quite mediocre, t because it is overweight, which was still well known at the beginning of the 90s.

    And about the competition, was it? "You can't do XXX" is the shameless suppression of a competitor. And what kind of Pogosyan, dared to climb into the Tupolev field and make a plane better than theirs.

    In general, Tupolev Design Bureau now will only help life-giving elimination.
    1. Felix2012
      Felix2012 28 November 2013 11: 16
      +4
      The only terrible thing is that they were entrusted with PAK yes, I am afraid that all the money would not be cut. Apparently, the ground is already being prepared to indicate the culprit
  12. Echo
    Echo 28 November 2013 10: 17
    +5
    In general, Tupolev Design Bureau now will only help life-giving elimination.

    EvilLion, I agree one hundred percent - in the form of a "court KB" Tupolevs will not survive. Instead of bringing to mind the old and designing the new, they began to simply whine and scandal how "Superjet bypassed their beautiful Tu-334".

    The same picture is observed in the situation of the Tu-204CM vs MS-21. The competitor has not yet taken off, and moans and cries have already begun. While quiet, but we still have many unforgettable minutes. And the older generation, perhaps, remembers the Tu-134 vs Yak-42 srach, which the Tupolevs clearly forced.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 28 November 2013 17: 57
      0
      There are orders for a competitor that are not yet ready. Unlike the "absolutely ready and perfect" Tu-334.
  13. Archikah
    Archikah 28 November 2013 10: 57
    +3
    I do not agree. Mr. Poghosyan really only cares for his company, and this clearly shows the almost dead MIG Design Bureau. And UC and other design bureaus. This is all the work of Poghosyan. Not enough money for all. But its explosives does not surrender. An example of a stool. That’s the whole story. negative
    1. Felix2012
      Felix2012 28 November 2013 11: 29
      +3
      Design Bureau Yak feels great, develops the MS-21, Mikoyanovtsy were given the job of upgrading the MiG-29, although they had failed the order from India before
    2. Evgeniy46
      Evgeniy46 28 November 2013 14: 30
      +5
      Well, yes, and the new MiG-29K / CUB for our Navy flew from a parallel universe. KB them. Yakovleva successfully works on the Yak-130 and Yak-242. KB them. Ilyushin over IL-76MD-90А and IL-78МД-90А. Some Tupolev whine. As one of the members of the forum said - for PAK YES it’s already scary
      1. andranick
        andranick 28 November 2013 17: 47
        +1
        Quote: Eugene46
        Some Tupolev whine.
        Since the Khrushchev-Brezhnev era, they got used to stressing too much about orders, Tupolev had strong connections in the government at that time, he was "lively".
      2. EvilLion
        EvilLion 28 November 2013 17: 58
        0
        He said, but I was the first to think. :(
    3. evil hamster
      evil hamster 28 November 2013 17: 27
      +1
      Oh vey, well, you don’t leave the primary sources anymore, MiG ruined Simonov - he was the dark lord in the mordor the general in Sukhoi Design Bureau, and Poghosyan, so at the catch was laughing
      Quote: Archikah
      And UC and other design bureaus. This is all the work of Poghosyan.

      Tell me please, but is Kenedy and the twin towers also him?
  14. Stinger
    Stinger 28 November 2013 11: 07
    +3
    Oh, sorry for the NKVD! Everything would have been dropped there. The Tupolevs would not be dishonored. The culprit is very easy to find. It is worth looking in the mirror and you will immediately see it.
  15. Algor73
    Algor73 28 November 2013 11: 35
    0
    If you look at the future, then Pogosyan’s actions are completely anti-state in nature - almost all design bureaus have been hacked (once there was a blog about An. Many were perplexed that he had survived without state support and was presenting new projects). In ten to twenty years, when the country is firmly on its feet, everyone will acutely feel these losses. But now, in conditions of underfunding, this is the only way out to make competitive aircraft. True, taking into account theft, since at least 30% of the money is stolen, if not more.
    1. military
      military 28 November 2013 14: 28
      +3
      Quote: Algor73
      In ten to twenty years, when the country is firmly on its feet, everything will be acutely felt ...

      if we do not get rid of our managers, "sensations" will come much earlier ... and in ten to twenty years the country will firmly stand ... on all fours ...
    2. fzr1000
      fzr1000 28 November 2013 14: 30
      0
      Is it more visible from Ukraine?
      1. Algor73
        Algor73 28 November 2013 19: 22
        +4
        Better, not more visible, but visible. With the dissolution of the Union, all design bureaus had the same start. Antonov was even a bit of a loser due to its isolation from the main sales markets. But "Tupolev" has always been "sharpened" for passenger aircraft (in parallel with bombers), "Sukhoi" - for military aircraft. I understand the SSD-100 is not a bad plane, but how much money is invested in it! And, most importantly, the RRD turned out to be a completely different plane, a competitor to both Anu and Tupolev, who are also part of the UAC. Its development was carried out after the creation of the UAC. Well, is this fair competition? Especially in their own market, where foreigners dominate.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 28 November 2013 22: 55
          0
          Due to the presence of all the necessary equipment that the others shared in Moscow, and also some cargoes to be transported, An-225 was certified there and they transport all kinds of turbines for dollars, or mining dump trucks.
  16. Takashi
    Takashi 28 November 2013 11: 48
    +2
    Now I understand why we began to do RRJ in Russia, its scatter in factories.
    Why did Tu smoothly bend.

    Very simple and effective, from the point of view of management and management.

    And then everyone compares aircraft and performance characteristics ... but they have nothing to do with it.

    Management .. such a mean .. management
  17. patriot2
    patriot2 28 November 2013 11: 59
    +1
    Under Stalin, Poghosyan would have felled trees in Siberia for a long time (this is the best case), and our aviation industry would not have been engaged in it for a long time (lyso-observer), but as a competent, skilled manager, I think there still remained those in this industry. Managers are judged by the results of their work, but what do we have now? All bitten, but where is the result in the civil aviation industry !? recourse
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 28 November 2013 17: 51
      0
      Tupolev just under Stalin and sat. For bringing refrigerators from the USA instead of airplanes.
  18. 1st_user
    1st_user 28 November 2013 14: 01
    0
    Recently I found a letter on the table among the mail.

    Who is there still who can’t learn to use e-mail? O_o
  19. Stalnov I.P.
    Stalnov I.P. 28 November 2013 14: 29
    0
    If everything that is stated in the article is true, then this clown needs to be suspended in one place, and with him all the officials from the Ministry of Industry, we get a second Serdyukov, an adventurer and not a professional. Where is the president of the country, where is the prime minister, we will get a second stool, few people died in Kazan and other disasters, urgent and emergency measures must be taken as in the Ministry of Defense. This hard worker will break the last wings of our civil aviation. When thinking and making decisions are right and tough, WAKE TWO LAWYERS.
    1. fzr1000
      fzr1000 28 November 2013 14: 35
      0
      "Clown" actually does a lot for the RF Air Force.
    2. andranick
      andranick 28 November 2013 17: 39
      0
      Is everything so straightforward and black and white? We live in a country in which the phrase "yes no" is perceived from an absolute "Yes" to a categorical "No" with a huge number of variations. ("Not that yes, but rather no"). And if you follow your logic, half of the country would already be hanging like New Year's garlands, simply because someone said "He's a bad guy!"
  20. TAGIR
    TAGIR 28 November 2013 14: 49
    +3
    Until a government commission is created in the country and it is not decided what country to build, there will be skirmishes who will put a spoke in its wheels. At one time, Aviastar had many orders from the Chinese for the Tu-204, but there was no money for the construction. As a result, the Chinese refused. Americans and Europeans were able to choose three or four models for production and make 300 aircraft a year.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 28 November 2013 17: 53
      0
      Pogosyan didn’t have money for SSJ either, they took a loan, like everyone else. Everyone does not have enough money, but for some reason everyone is able to get them if work is expected.
  21. Sergius
    Sergius 28 November 2013 15: 47
    +2
    We live according to Griboyedov - "reason in spite of, in spite of the elements."
  22. evil hamster
    evil hamster 28 November 2013 17: 17
    +4

    This is a special therapeutic picture for letter readers in sportloto arguments of the weeki.
    Instructions for use: Print in A4 format. hang on the wall or any other capital reinforced concrete structure. Beat your head repeating "Poghosyan go away" 10 times, twice a day after meals. One course lasts 7 days without interruption, if the result is not obtained, take a break for one day and repeat the courses until enlightenment is achieved.
  23. andranick
    andranick 28 November 2013 17: 29
    +3
    Sukhoi Design Bureau in dashing 90 survived only thanks to the export to China of our fighters. In the early 2000s he was in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, talked to work with an engineer at a dry plant. I ask, is production worth it? No, he says, we are working. On whom? We supply to China. What about us? And there are no orders, for several years.
    Considering the circumstances that our civil aircraft industry at that time was intensely rotting for the sake of imported air traffic jams and only military equipment was competitive, how can you imagine, did the Tupolev Design Bureau have a similar opportunity to supply "strategists" to China? I think no.
    On the other hand, for almost a hundred years now, aviation design bureaus have developed only on the personal ambitions of their leaders. When healthy, when not. These people sincerely believed that only they were right, only their ideas had the right to life, and were not afraid to take responsibility upon themselves. And at one time Tupolev "ate" more than one competitor. Now Tupolevs are being eaten. And they will eat, because instead of "I can, I am the best!" only "Save, they are raped!" is heard.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 28 November 2013 17: 55
      -2
      If Tupolev had competitive cars, then he would only expand sales abroad in the conditions of the market. But they were not there.
      1. andranick
        andranick 28 November 2013 20: 11
        0
        Yes, at the time of the collapse of the Union, the Tupolevites had excellent, advanced civilian apparatus. As, however, and Ilyushin. The most powerful design bureau was not eating cabbage soup. But I already wrote, I repeat: they were not used to competition, were not ready to "push" their products. And here the pressure from external competitors was not childish. So the design bureau sank in a wild market.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 28 November 2013 22: 58
          +2
          Once again, the Tu-334 is overweight, the crew of the 3 person, and this is a huge extra. carrier costs flew so-so. The Tu-154 was good in the 70s, the Tu-154Ms in the 80s were so cosmetics, mothers do not cry fuel, the flight engineer who is already over the hill for 10 years, how is it that there are no advantages?
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 28 November 2013 23: 01
            +3
            Quote: EvilLion
            flew so-so.
            Please explain.
          2. typhoon7
            typhoon7 28 November 2013 23: 26
            0
            THIS does not mean at all that everything needs to be broken, it is barbarism. All this was created in sharashka, on poor national pennies, and not so that one fine day would come uncle with inflated pride and crumble everything. And the planes are all brought to mind. Take the same T-10, there were also claims to it, they took it where it was redrawn, where it was finalized and it turned out to be a masterpiece. Why such a barbaric attitude towards all other bureaus.
  24. vadutc
    vadutc 28 November 2013 17: 34
    +2
    So I don’t even understand, PAK FA will be shit? Sent cut budget? Not a distant plane? I really ask those who know.

    P.S. I somehow do not seem so at all.
  25. silver_roman
    silver_roman 28 November 2013 19: 34
    +2
    It is likely that the "honorary" title of "stool of the year" will soon pass to a new personality!
    To be honest, I am not very strong in this matter, but I can say one thing: when Khrushchev flew to Washington in Tushki, everyone was stunned to the edge. It was a triumph for Soviet aircraft designers. When you see the Tu-160 White Swans on the runway, your heart is touched by their grace and power. The Tupolev Design Bureau must be preserved. It seems that the Kalashnikov concern was made strategic, and so Tupolev should suffer the same fate.
    "Dry" is not a civilian industry!
    In fact, this is competition, but it is not healthy!
  26. alone
    alone 28 November 2013 20: 01
    +1
    Someone definitely wants to ruin the aircraft industry in Russia. and for this, all conditions are created. Only healthy competition can become the best option for raising the civil and military aircraft industry.
    the only way to make the best aircraft of its class.

    P.S. yes, and I almost forgot. We must immediately remove from the aircraft industry "effective managers." These are even worse than monopolies
  27. avg
    avg 28 November 2013 23: 34
    +5
    I read the comments. I imagined that Rogozin reads such things from experts, and understood why his roof is blowing down. fool
    1. igor.borov775
      igor.borov775 3 December 2013 17: 35
      0
      I think Rogozin is now already so hard. For a year now they have been raking in what he got plus his favorite red tape delay in making decisions, as always in our new RUSSIA,
  28. igor.borov775
    igor.borov775 3 December 2013 17: 27
    0
    I’m more and more disliked to escalate the hostility of someone else’s opinion that there is no respect for my kindred, Let’s remember the recent air showrooms, I’m writing about ours, Remember and quickly write which new civilian car there announced itself, Let’s strain, I I know only about one car, it’s not in the metal, but advertising goes in full if it’s not right, it’s an MS, I’m not a Muscovite, it’s hard for me to judge, but they start talking about this car by the box, As far as I understand from the explanations of the Chief Designer, this will really be a prop in in our civil aviation ,, And that’s all, Only one truly new machine, And the plane is both a high-tech and advanced product, I don’t know anything more about new models, It seems there is a design bureau and there’s nothing new, it just says that the crisis continues, I'm depressing another, no orders, something is wrong, I have to react faster, IL-76 is fine, but one moment alarms me Engines, For the civilian version, they lost a lot of refueling tenders in India not so long ago, the Indians took the two-engine version, The aviation world is a competition and tough here you need to calculate options, It is advisable to work out this option, too, the line should be,