Military Review

Why the army did not become the last stronghold of the Soviet statehood?

86
Why the army did not become the last stronghold of the Soviet statehood?

These days marks the anniversary of the August putsch of the State Emergency Committee, the details of these events are very well described in many sources, and some of our fellow citizens are mostly those who were older even in those days who were directly involved in those events.


In addition, virtually all the inhabitants of the once great country of the Soviets turned out to be direct and indifferent eyewitnesses to her death.

However, if the political component of the coup in stories The new Russia today is literally laid out on the shelves, then the details of the actions of the army and other security agencies who took part in the coup are not sufficiently covered.

So, for example, it is not entirely clear how such a thing could happen, that one of the strongest armies in the world was not able to seize and retain power in the capital of the country, even for a very short time.

And this is despite the fact that in a multimillion metropolis, against this very army, directly from weapons in their hands only a few hundred people were actually ready to speak.

So, for example, from N. Leonov’s book “The Way of the Cross of Russia 1991-2000” it is known that: “The number of the so-called defenders of the White House in history will remain forever a very approximate value. In the building itself, there were about 400 people who had a large number of small arms, including machine guns and machine guns. Near the building on improvised barricades gathered, according to various estimates, from 5 to 50 thousands of people.
It was these figures that were called by the investigating authorities by various persons who were interrogated in connection with the events of those days. “Democrats”, as a rule, exaggerated the number of advocates, and persons from the State Emergency Committee tended to underestimate. The KGB officers sent in those days to estimate the number of White House defenders to prepare for possible military actions identified it in 15-20 thousand people. ”Http://www.russia-talk.org/cd-history/1991-2000 /leonov1.htm

From the history of the USSR it is known that only for the period from 1953 to 1969 The Soviet army took part in the suppression of at least the three largest armed rebellions in the countries of the socialist camp. And if in East Germany in 1953. and in Czechoslovakia in 1968. Since the Soviet troops were given little resistance, in Hungary, on the contrary, large-scale military operations were carried out using all types of heavy weapons, including combat Aviation.

At the same time, all military operations by the Soviet command were prepared very carefully and all of them were carried out at the highest professional level, taking into account the fact that the troops had to operate in the conditions of large European cities. As a result, all armed insurrections were completely suppressed, with minimal reciprocal losses.

Thus, in August 1991g. in the ranks of the Soviet Army, many generals and colonels were still in the service, participants in hostilities to suppress insurgency in the urban setting of Europe, plus a large number of officers and warrant officers who had the richest combat experience of the Afghan war also served in the Soviet power structures. This category of Soviet citizens had something to defend, since they were completely dependent on the state, and on the political system in which they were kept.

However, as further events of August XNUMH showed. It turns out that the Soviet military didn’t know how to perform at all, or as they say “to do” military coups, they were simply not trained in peacetime in the Soviet Army.

A specific feature of the Moscow military district since Stalin’s times was that the Moscow Region was the seat of the most privileged and combat-ready army and Ministry of Internal Affairs units at that time — the well-known Taman motorized rifle and Kantemirovskaya tank divisions, but of course the famous division of the internal troops named after Felix Dzerzhinsky, as well as many other separate units and formations.

It is well known that these two of the three units were used in the 1953 year to neutralize the forces of the NKVD, during the arrest of L. Beria and in the 1957 year, in the period of the struggle with the so-called “anti-party group”. After many years, they found a deal in August 1991 of the year.

At the end of the 80-ies, especially after the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan, the Soviet command began to actively involve in the establishment of order mainly in the national suburbs, along with the internal troops also part of the airborne forces. Marines, like a fire brigade in 1990-1991. they moved from one region of the union to another; they did not stand aside from the Moscow events.

What were the forces and means that were involved in the August putsch? It is known that by the middle of the day 19 of August, more than 300 tanks were deployed to Moscow as part of the units and formations involved in the putsch, about 270 infantry fighting vehicles, 150 armored personnel carriers and 430 vehicles.

The total strength of all troops did not exceed 4600 people. These were the following units: the Dzerzhinsky division of the Ministry of the Interior, the 106-I Tula division of the airborne division and the local troops, the Taman motorized rifle division and the Kantemirovskaya tank division.

Thus, it turns out that the GKChP conspirators could not scrape together for a putsch on the territory of a multi-million Moscow even one full-blooded motorized rifle division, these troops barely had enough to take control of at least some of the most important facilities of the capital.

“The troops who were alarmed and hurriedly deployed to Moscow immediately felt the lack of political leadership, which was expressed in the vagueness of the goals set, in indecisive, often changing orders. Formally, it was necessary to take under guard Central Telegraph, TASS, the television center in Ostankino, radio stations, CHP, water-pressure stations, bridges and access roads to them.

But this set of objects testified to the mechanical transfer of the experience of past revolutions. The army entered the city, not understanding from whom it was necessary to protect the objects assigned to it, because no one threatened them.

Around the world, putschists, of course, if they are true putschists, are active, offensive. They take by storm or destroy their political opponents, their strongholds, their combat forces and means. ”

(N. Leonov “The Cross of Russia 1991-2000”).

So it was during the infamous military coup in Chile, 11 September 1973goda. It was not an ordinary garrison-type rebellion, but a well-planned military operation, in the center of which was a combined attack using aviation, artillery and infantry. The rebels were immediately occupied by all government and government agencies. The officers, who refused to support the coup, were immediately shot.

The rebels acted clearly, according to a predetermined plan, at about 10 in the morning, their troops appeared on the square immediately began shelling the presidential palace of La Moneda, in which President Allende was located and only about forty of his defenders.

Then, on the radio, the rebels handed the order of the junta number 2, which invited all the defenders of La Moneda to surrender, otherwise the palace would be taken by storm at 11 o'clock in the afternoon. The president refused. Soon, the rebels surrounded the palace and then opened massive fire on virtually all the windows, entrances and exits of the building.

At about 12 hours of the day, the presidential palace of La Moneda was attacked from the air planes of the Chilean Air Force by NURSami. A total of seventeen to nineteen volleys of missiles were made. The palace was burning. At 14 hours, the rebels occupied the lower floor of La Moneda, and by 15 hours, the old power in Chile was over.
As you can see, the Chileans used their military equipment during the coup strictly for their intended purpose, and not as a platform for the performance of some democratic leader.


Nowhere did the army have such a significant tradition of political participation as in Latin America. No wonder they say here: "If the army does not control itself, then it decides who controls."

It was the army in Latin America that was often viewed and regarded as the only force capable of ensuring order and stability, preventing chaos and anarchy.

It is on this continent that the army is always aware of itself as the supreme carrier and spokesman of common national interests. And therefore, if the constitutional power is not able to ensure stability and order in the country, then the army always comes to the rescue. As a national institution, it is able to intervene in political life and always defend the "unity of the nation."

But if the Latin American experience clearly was not suitable for the USSR, then it would be safe for our neighbors, the Poles, to learn how to properly and effectively introduce elementary order in our own country.

However, the Soviet leaders clearly forgot all this Polish experience, and in December 1981 the internal political situation in People’s Poland at that time was much more complicated and dangerous than in August 1991 in the USSR, and yet the introduction of the state of emergency was V. Yaruzelsky carried out flawlessly and with great effect.

It is known that the Poles in the introduction of state of emergency throughout the country involved up to 70 thousand soldiers, 30 thousand police officers, 1750 tanks, 1900 armored personnel carriers, 9 thousand trucks and cars, several squadrons of helicopters and transport aircraft. All these forces were concentrated in major cities and industrial centers.

With the start of the operation, all telephone communications in the country were turned off, borders and petrol stations were closed, passes were entered for departure from any settlement, curfews were established and correspondence was censored. Ten days later all over the country the strikes were over, all demonstrations were dispersed, the effectiveness of the planned measures was evident, and as a result about 4 thousand strikers were arrested. http://maxpark.com/community/politic/content/2077722


"In Moscow, nothing of the kind happened. The troops entered and stood up. It came to oddities: in 13.50, one battalion of the 106 division of the Airborne Forces, with which General A. Lebed arrived, approached the White House, where Yeltsin was heading. He deployed the tanks astern to the building, and the barrels of the guns looked gloomily into the space towards an unknown enemy. A. Lebed seemed to be carrying out an order to protect state institutions, and the surrounding people perceived these tanks as those that had gone over to the opponents of the State Emergency Committee.

It is impossible not to smile, reading the memories of operetta witnesses, with the tragic reflection of the events of those days. The troops moved through the streets, accompanied by traffic police cars, as if it was a question of breeding parade calculations.

B. Yeltsin, who was driving that morning from the state dacha in Arkhangelsk to the White House on Krasnopresnenskaya Embankment in his car with a flashing light accompanied by guards, overtook combat vehicles that readily gave way to him. From time to time his heart was compressed from fear that he was about to be arrested, and the officers only took the cap and ate their eyes, rushing past them.

Muscovites generally died of surprise, looking like tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and armored vehicles meekly stopped in front of the red traffic lights, letting in ordinary urban traffic.
All this was like some kind of theater of the absurdity. "(N. Leonov" The Russian Way of the Cross 1991-2000 ").

The only positive thing was that, in spite of the enormous amount of military equipment that was introduced into the capital, the military did not suppress or maim the residents and guests of the huge metropolis. True, unfortunately, there were no casualties, but fortunately they turned out to be insignificant, only three dead and five wounded.

There was such a thing, when, being under a degree, some revolutionaries posed for foreign photos, tried to lie down under the tank tracks, of course, they didn’t know that the tank driver could not stand the nerves and quite accidentally he can get off the mountain brake by his leg, dressed in rough kirzacs, and then all, the heroic death for democracy in the form of a human body into a cake on Moscow asphalt would be provided to someone for sure.

As a result, the extremely clumsy and illiterate actions of the putschists showed that the Soviet leaders-members of the Emergency Committee did not properly take advantage of the last stronghold of statehood that was once the pride of the Soviet country and its Armed Forces.
Originator:
http://ru-history.livejournal.com/
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  1. Denis
    Denis 13 September 2013 07: 28 New
    10
    “The number of so-called White House defenders in history will remain forever a very approximate value
    Bad performance, all these defenders ran away at the first shots
    Some of their barricades are worth a very serious obstacle to the tank
    As well as those sick on the head that tanks stopped hands
    1. Vadim2013
      Vadim2013 13 September 2013 12: 49 New
      -17
      Quote: Denis
      “The number of so-called White House defenders in history will remain forever a very approximate value
      Bad performance, all these defenders ran away at the first shots

      I was at the barricades near the White House on the night of August 20-21, 1991. When the shooting began, the people at the barricades joined hands and chanted "Shame! Shame! ..."
      1. Denis
        Denis 13 September 2013 13: 34 New
        10
        Quote: Vadim2013
        When they started shooting, the people on the barricades joined hands and chanted "Shame! Shame! ..."
        Did it help? The provocateurs fired, something was not heard about the gunshot wounds. Yes, and the troops did not hold back the screams of the gorlopans.
      2. smile
        smile 13 September 2013 16: 42 New
        +9
        Vadim2013
        Well, why are you weaving this, who shot you there? If only one store were dropped out into the crowd of idiots on this barricade, there would be a dozen or two wounded and killed ... Why lie chtol in a pointed manner. Even the media crushed by the elbon did not weave about it ...... what are you proud of? What ebily yelled prompted slogans? They would sit and secretly be ashamed that, like brainless barranes, they went on about whom ....
        1. Denis
          Denis 14 September 2013 09: 36 New
          0
          Quote: smile
          there would be a dozen two wounded and killed.
          And the screams of the media would still not subside
      3. _CAMOBAP_
        _CAMOBAP_ 13 September 2013 21: 41 New
        +5
        Quote: Vadim2013
        I was at the White House barricades on the night of August 20-21, 1991.

        Medal "defensive belaga home" with pride, go, wear it? I suppose you give your grandchildren lessons in courage?
      4. tupolev-95
        tupolev-95 14 September 2013 14: 46 New
        +2
        Shame - this is your fucking democracy, the whole period following the August of the 91st year in the history of the country cannot be called cursed.
      5. adm656
        adm656 14 September 2013 16: 27 New
        +2
        It would be better if you, bitch, were transferred there ... And at that time I was in distant Uzbekistan, and after your "crap" barricades, my family and I, like millions of people, were left without anything ... no houses, no homeland, no country .. when you shouted "shame, shame" with your sleek hulks, did you think about what this would lead to? It's a pity that only three were crushed ..
      6. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 15 September 2013 11: 55 New
        +3
        Quote: Vadim2013
        the people on the barricades joined hands and chanted "Shame! Shame! ..."

        The people ... ???
        -There is a medal for the participants in those events, and the PEOPLE called it "zasr.nkoy".
        Do not know why?
        -And I and my colleagues at that moment stood in the planned guard, providing REAL order from the instantly appeared cunning looters. Are we not people either?
        -And when everyone in the referendum said YES to the Union, is that also not the people?

        The people are you with EBN? You take too much on yourself ...
        They shouted about some kind of freedom ..., "protected" the world from the "putsch" ... and in the end "loot" is the motto of your life.
        The gut of you, liberals, is thin-called the people.
      7. Realist58
        Realist58 20 October 2013 18: 47 New
        0
        And what pushed you to that vile act ???
    2. Army1
      Army1 13 September 2013 17: 24 New
      0
      So much for "STUPID AMERICAN"
  2. Lindon
    Lindon 13 September 2013 08: 15 New
    26
    The meaning of the article? The USSR is not — it’s too late to cry over spilled milk.
    Stalin would have arrested and shot everyone for a long time.
    Everything speaks of the complete decay in the minds of the political and military elite of the Gorbachev period.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 13 September 2013 08: 47 New
      10
      The meaning of the article is to prevent Russia from taking into account the USSR.
      Breaking one kink of milk does not mean that you need to break the rest.
    2. vjhbc
      vjhbc 13 September 2013 11: 16 New
      10
      Quote: Lindon
      Everything speaks of the complete decay in the minds of the political and military elite of the Gorbachev period.
      not only the entire population of the USSR was so tired that everyone didn’t give a damn; everyone believed that it couldn’t be any worse; well, they made a little mistake; now the majority wants to bite themselves for the priest but it’s not working
      1. smile
        smile 13 September 2013 12: 30 New
        17
        vjhbc
        All Russian-speaking Baltic states were simply happy with the "putsch". In Klaipeda, the troops acted very competently - there were no armored vehicles in the city - long-distance communications were cut off, the Lithuanian authorities were PERSONALLY notified that if they rock the boat, everyone will be immediately detained, familiarized with the list of persons involved in whom they will work. Special forces groups with communications equipment appeared near police departments, at railway stations, and in ports. In the HF, mobile groups were formed with specific goals and clear orders in case of complications. An armored motorized rifle company is deployed near Televyshka (a few kilometers from the city). The garrison command monitored the situation in the city and was ready for immediate and tough action. As a result, the labasy shrieked like rats in burrows and there was not the slightest surge of discontent, not a single incident. Not one was found among the garrison. who would have supported Elbon, but there was a storm of indignation from why our actions were so soft.
        So, we don't have to find fault with our army. That was not the trouble with the putschists. that they acted illiterately. but the fact that the bad but good leaders of the "coup" did not have the willpower to give the order for decisive action, they did not want blood .... although, I believe, a hundred dead idiots who supported Elbon would have saved Russia and the republics from numerous wars and almost a million victims incurred in them (there, the war of the Vovchiks with the Yurchiks alone claimed about 300 thousand lives of former Soviet people) ...
        Elbon in the bickering for power in 93 was not so shy ....
        1. rinat1955
          rinat1955 13 September 2013 15: 58 New
          0
          Well? Why was Moscow a mess? Or commanders of elite divisions near Moscow snickering, they had something to lose, so they pissed? But still ... and a trifle, lieutenants and majors .. he has the same platoon company of tanks! From Arbat to the Kremlin 10 minutes drive! Are you afraid of death? In the Baltics they weren’t scared, but they were scared ?!
          1. smile
            smile 13 September 2013 17: 06 New
            +4
            rinat1955
            All members of the Klaipeda garrison acted as part of orders. Any independent actions would be suppressed ruthlessly, otherwise it would not be an army, but a Makhnovist gang.
            By the way, at the same time, according to my father-in-law, the Marines were raised on alarm in Baltiysk and partially loaded into the BDK along with equipment. BC was issued. At Fleet headquarters, the command of the Cheka did not shoot, deciding where to go — or to St. Petersburg, to crush Elbon’s supporters, or to us, to crush the 8th Coast Defense Division ... hell would have burned out with the Klaipedians — the border guards supported ours. option with landing on the coast or in ports is provided and worked out ...
            lucky civil war did not happen, and you advocate just for it - because part of the army. as well as the people. was on the side of the elbon .... it seems to me, in the event of the outbreak of hostilities, Russia would have been even worse ... and if you don’t have a grudge against me — I now think so — then — I had no doubt.
        2. optimist
          optimist 13 September 2013 17: 22 New
          +4
          Quote: smile
          That was not the trouble with the putschists. that they acted illiterately. but the fact that the bad but good leaders of the "coup" did not have the willpower to give the order for decisive action, they did not want blood .... although, I believe, a hundred dead idiots who supported Elbon would have saved Russia and the republics from numerous wars and almost a million victims incurred in them (there, the war of the Vovchiks with the Yurchiks alone claimed about 300 thousand lives of former Soviet people) ... Elbon was not ashamed of a fight for power at 93 ...

          The putschists themselves had no trouble - the country had trouble, which was finally pushed into the abyss by this stupid performance. There has never been a more grandiose fucking thing than this "putsch" in history and probably will not be. The only question is that the GKChPists knew everything in advance, or they were used in the "dark". And the army is not to blame for anything, - she followed the order. And her actions were just as dumb as this order ...
          1. smile
            smile 13 September 2013 18: 38 New
            +2
            optimist
            An interesting version, although controversial. Nevertheless, I will not argue, we do not have enough information for categorical statements.
            I only think that if you are right, then you used them in the dark.
        3. vjhbc
          vjhbc 13 September 2013 19: 14 New
          +2
          I agree, then everything was clearly served there, and then everything was cooler and the labus got emboldened, their partisans even seized our bus with a shift, they made the soldiers write that they were secretly transported to Latvia and then they started gathering in front of the headquarters in Riga, people were shouting at 500 people
  3. KOH
    KOH 13 September 2013 08: 27 New
    15
    For the collapse of the USSR, we must still judge all these figures who have not gone to another world ...
  4. Boris55
    Boris55 13 September 2013 08: 39 New
    21
    I heard a lot from civilian questions - where was the army, and why didn’t you take the oath, but you need to shoot yourself ... and in that spirit.
    1. The people and the army are one - it was driven into the head firmly.
    2. "I'm always ready by order The Soviet Government to defend my Motherland ... "- there was no order. On this site there was an article by the Minister of Defense of the USSR Yazov -" I do not shoot at my own people "(it was like that).
    3. And the last thing - something, I did not see a crowd of civilians near the military registration and enlistment offices wishing to defend the USSR with arms in their hands.
    So before blaming the army for inaction - let them look in the mirror.
    1. krpmlws
      krpmlws 13 September 2013 10: 48 New
      -1
      You do not need to cover up your actions with beautiful phrases, hide behind the people. You went against the People and the national interests of the Fatherland. The people and the army are united, rightly so, but why did you and the state security bodies throw the people in 91 and 93? This is a betrayal of the people and the Motherland. At 91 you hoped that you would get a cola and gum, and at 93 you lost heart, went after those who pay the grandmother. An ORDER for a soldier is his conscience, it must remain when the Soviet Government betrays the people. (I remember footage, as General Rutskoi calls on the military to come to the rescue on the radio ...) "And the last thing" - yes, not only you betrayed, but many others, you are right about that.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 13 September 2013 11: 06 New
        +7
        Power structures (army, Ministry of Internal Affairs, KGB), not only here, but also their counterparts over the hill are an instrument in the hands of politicians. They carry out their orders. If you think that every gopher is an agronomist in the army, then you don’t understand a damn not only in the purpose of the power structures, but in general in the structure of society according to the principle of states and its functioning.

        "If I violate this solemn oath of mine, then let the harsh punishment of Soviet law, universal hatred and contempt of the working people befall me."
        1. krpmlws
          krpmlws 13 September 2013 12: 37 New
          +4
          All these are general phrases, an attempt to find an excuse. Specifically, in 91g the defense minister gives an order why it is not being followed, and the military go over to Yeltsin? In 93, the same Rutskoi addresses the military where they were, why didn’t they come to the rescue? , I don’t take my responsibility off myself and do not come up with excuses, don’t make a deal with my conscience and wish you the same. Here is an example, the Belovezhskaya gathering is surrounded by state security officers who are aware of what is happening but are waiting for orders. What orders are they still waiting for ?? “A crime is committed before their eyes and their direct duty is to prevent it. This is how it turns out: the major nods at the colonel, the colonel at the general, and the general at the politician; -and no one is responsible for anything — a convenient position.
      2. smile
        smile 13 September 2013 12: 43 New
        +5
        krpmlws
        Let-let-put Boris55 to the virtual wall for the fact that he remained faithful to the oath and military duty. Because he didn’t escape from the barracks with a machine gun and didn’t start shooting the crowd of Elbon’s supporters ... you can imagine that, right? By the way, did you have to shoot in the crowd? Liked? Or did he, again, having deserted from the location of the unit, had to come to the GKChPist with the requirement to act more decisively? Yeah, but since the deserter would hardly have been allowed to them to bravely join the battle with the guard? If only everyone would be well, right? And imagine that there would be a lot of deserters, what would happen in the country?
        Before throwing accusations, it’s worthwhile to think with your head ... and not with something else ...
        1. krpmlws
          krpmlws 13 September 2013 13: 25 New
          +1
          Do you generally understand what an oath and duty are? The duty of a soldier, like the meaning of the oath in defense of the Fatherland. What happens if the Fatherland is in trouble, and the soldier picks his nose or goes over to the side of the enemies? Betrayal. "For not running away ..." - refrain from meanness, we are talking about the death of the USSR and many of our compatriots, as well as about the future of the Russian Federation.
        2. rinat1955
          rinat1955 13 September 2013 15: 07 New
          +1
          But where does the driver or commander of the car? There were lieutenants, majors, colonels !!
          Why are they pissed that they will be considered deserters ?!
          Or they were afraid for their lives, so he, the commander, chose this profession - to defend his homeland!
          I have a suspicion that the hero of the film "Officers" (at the end of the film, the commander of a tank regiment of the 70s), certainly would not have pissed himself off in the situation of the State Emergency Committee, and Yeltsin would definitely not salute ...
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. dmb
              dmb 13 September 2013 20: 05 New
              +2
              Was it necessary to shoot? Naturally, neither the conscripts, nor even the officers of the "court" divisions, with the exception of those who passed through Afghanistan, could not shoot. But the experts Kryuchkov, Pugo and Yazova would have done it regularly, because the running-in has already passed, including on the territory of the USSR (Karabakh, Osh ). But this was not required to neutralize Bald and the future Guarantor-drunkard. Nikita was clearly more powerful, and the Ministry of Defense Malinovsky was his direct protégé, but everything went without shooting. I already wrote that the GKChPists were good performers, but lousy organizers. However, such were selected, especially at the last stage of the country's existence.
  5. predator.3
    predator.3 13 September 2013 09: 33 New
    +7
    It is a pity that we are destined to know our future, if we knew then what to do to Yeltsin’s pack and where humpback would celebrate his birthday, then they would be buried in the ground!
  6. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 13 September 2013 09: 36 New
    12
    Everything was rotten. Partocracy and the comprador nomenclature itself rotted and infected with rot everything around, exactly the same as during the overthrow of the king. Anti-Soviet ideological pumping turned into state domestic policy.
    Yes, and much more. It's disgusting to remember.
  7. 0255
    0255 13 September 2013 10: 00 New
    +4
    There was such a thing, when, being under a degree, some revolutionaries posed for foreign photos, tried to lie down under the tank tracks, of course, they didn’t know that the tank driver could not stand the nerves and quite accidentally he can get off the mountain brake by his leg, dressed in rough kirzacs, and then all, the heroic death for democracy in the form of a human body into a cake on Moscow asphalt would be provided to someone for sure.

    but what would be a PR for Western zhurnalyug. EBN-such a death of one of its supporters would even be on hand - like, look, from what terrible power did Yeltsin save 15 republics.
    I remember a shot from the chronicle of 1991, as someone lays down under a tank and his nerves could not stand, he quickly jumped up and ran away, did not want to promote the new "democratic" government at the cost of his life
    1. smile
      smile 13 September 2013 12: 47 New
      +2
      0255
      They learned this from the Lithuanians, who did so during the blocking of the Vilnius shopping center. Only the Lithuanians went further - their Edge Guard Service also shot enough in its crowd, dumping all the corpses on the troops ...
  8. ammunition
    ammunition 13 September 2013 10: 00 New
    +3
    Personnel of the Taman Division, in terms of their moral and psychological qualities not good absolutely for such operations.
    --------
    Against the external enemy, the division was very combat ready and prepared. And on the egregor, and on psychological preparation, the personnel were ready to die (if necessary) for Moscow and for the peaceful life of the population.
    --------
    By the way ... Conclusions from this fact were made by the "reformers". Conclusions on the draft .. the selection of officers .. and propaganda. And still .. in 93rd year .. were able to use only part of the division's equipment. And very few people.
  9. Net
    Net 13 September 2013 10: 06 New
    18
    Not the army should have acted, but the KGB. And not in the 91st, but much earlier. The first suspicions about Humpbacked Judas came to them when he was the only Soviet leader who ceased to provide transcripts of his negotiations with Western leaders. What he then spoke with Thatcher, Reagan, God alone knows, but the consequences are known to all. Of course, all coups were usually conceived in the Politburo, but who was there at that time! Read the names of the composition of the Politburo of '91 and all the illusions will disappear - the team of collaborators and the fifth column.
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 13 September 2013 10: 25 New
      18
      Quote: Netto
      Netto SU Today, 10:06 AM New

      Not the army should have acted, but the KGB.


      As for me, it is precisely the top of the KGB that is the director of the August 1991 tragedy comedy.
      I will draw an analogy - the military unit is surrounded. The unit commander is exclusively concerned with hasting at the location of enemy forces and losing one position after another. In the location of the unit, there is complete discord, the enemy’s agents openly rummaging around in positions, rummaging through folders with secret documents, actively recruiting agents ... How should Major Silence-Silence from the Special Department MANDATE to act in such a situation? That's right - do not wait for the tragedy, but carefully consider the candidates for battalion commanders, if there are no worthy ones, then deputy commander of battalion, company commanders, in the end, determine the strength of which units you can rely on and change command. Traitors and traitors - to be judged by the tribunal, and in the bared riding breeches - to be taken out of the parapet and put into consumption.
      None of this has been done! It is not difficult to assume that the humpbacked and top KGB leadership acted at the same time.
      1. optimist
        optimist 13 September 2013 17: 26 New
        +4
        Quote: Hudo
        It is not difficult to assume that the humpbacked and top KGB leadership acted at the same time.

        Gold words! And the FSB is now a "worthy" successor to the work of its predecessor !!!
        1. Hudo
          Hudo 13 September 2013 20: 16 New
          +4
          Quote: optimist
          The FSB is now a "worthy" successor to the work of its predecessor !!!

          Alexey, I.V. Stalin was a wise man, and he kept the special services under the most severe control. One intelligence service controlled another, revealing the slightest lice from each other, and Comrade Stalin controlled the process, preventing them from falling into one flock. Identified enemies of the people (they are enemies of the state) were disposed of in a timely manner. And the Kremlin elders stole control - and the special services that got out of control ruined the state.
          1. Alekseev
            Alekseev 14 September 2013 10: 39 New
            +2
            Quote: Hudo
            I.V. Stalin was a wise man, and he kept the special services under the most severe control.

            Absolutely accurate definition! good
            Not for nothing, when one of the arrested (I don’t remember exactly, but in my opinion Ruslanova’s husband, Gen. Kryukov) was indignant at the “methods” of interrogating the MGB: it’s, they say, “Yezhovism”, the investigator replied they don't beat us ... request
  10. rinat1955
    rinat1955 13 September 2013 10: 24 New
    +5
    The meaning of the article is the same that I now constantly issue in WoT toy RUSSIAN YOU COSTS!
    not a single colonel, major, lieutenant was found to take power, to crush both Yeltsin and the GKChP!
    What else does! You’re already in the city, they let you in there! I don’t want to take it!
    EVERYBODY COME!
    I apologize for inciting, swearing .. but it is boiling
    1. smile
      smile 13 September 2013 13: 03 New
      +3
      rinat1955
      And in the leadership of the country and in the SA, the Russians were not the only ones who made the decision. Are we cowards? And then you WHAT? The Russians created a huge country and were its backbone. It is precisely the merit of the Russian people that we buried everyone who encroached on us - until the beginning of the 20th century, non-Russians were not drafted into the army (although the path of an officer was open to anyone). And are we cowards? You are a cheap nationalist who has one g ... russophobia in the z ... tse. Russians are not cowards, but overly humane, otherwise such as you would have taken to the nail for a long time, precisely for kindling ... or rather, if with those like you acted the way you deserve, you would sneak cowardly like cockroaches under the bench ... yes, you even now consider yourself not a coward, only "passing off" bold curses in a virtual toy ... it's a shame for the Tatars that their people have such petty dirty tricks ... I wish everyone to win the game in tanks are the only place where you stand ... :)))
      1. rinat1955
        rinat1955 13 September 2013 14: 31 New
        -2
        Well, let's fight on national topics. And I will try to somehow reinforce my conclusion, and not only by observing the Russian youth in tanks.
        You will look at the leader of Azerbaijan, Chechnya, Tajikistan, in the end. Kadyrov, the rink moves the contractor, who tried to pass the poor-quality road. Ilham Aliyev has banned the purchase of cars more expensive than a million (something there) and at home - please. Minnikhamov (and before him Babai) plow the entire usable area, even on the sides of the road wheat grows. An attempt to launch a batch of high-quality but Kazakh vodka led to a special operation of the Tatar security forces. And the destruction of the mafia at the Tatar gas stations?

        Can you imagine something like this in any province (where the population is predominantly Russian)? Try to figure out why.

        Further, several terrible wars in a row knocked out brave men in the Russian ethnic group. Yes, plus warriors such as Zhukov (women are still giving birth) seem to have led to the breakdown of the Russian backbone.

        In the absence of the opportunity to communicate with young people in other places, I see it in this toy, I can say the following degradation, even with 2010, is striking. Phlegly phrases you are standing in the bushes, your teammates are dying, you are not losing a cow, they are not leading to anything.
        Phrases like "hey Kazakh, what are you worth, you disgrace the nation, lead to an instant reaction, the player goes to peed immediately.
        An analogue in relation to a player with a nickname such as inav2001 does not give a result.
        In WoT, Muslims, Russian players, but over the age of 25 years, retirees ... but not youth, go on the attack. And the jokes on the topic of Syria and the ability to reel shaking, cause the same tantrums. You’re afraid of trembling, our young guys.
        Well they are from the machine, these city children will run like a dragon.
        Personally, I only hope for the guys from the Caucasus who are now attending military schools and academies.
        Excuse me if I report something unpleasant.
        1. smile
          smile 13 September 2013 17: 30 New
          0
          rinat1955
          I’m not going to discuss with you a great tankman on national issues. You, under ... ok, insulted the entire Russian people. I apologize!
          I understand that cowardice is in your blood. and you wouldn’t tell anyone this personally, you’re used to virtual shells .... but if I could even hear what you said that cowardice is in the blood of the Russian people, you’re a virtual warrior, despite that I’m a very kind person, I would gobble up my beloved Claudia, and very quickly .... believe me, I know what non-virtual bullets are and I’ve seen enough. how harsh mountain eagles instantly lose arrogance and turn into wet chickens ...
          1. rinat1955
            rinat1955 13 September 2013 18: 20 New
            0
            Ek is sausage ... you are ours.
            Once again ... after two wars (in which the bravest always die), the number of Russian brave men, especially among the military, has become less than that of other peoples of the USSR. (Chechens are an example of this) The number of recklessly brave warriors who can venture on a military coup in the USSR and especially in the Russian Federation is negligible, and this figure is constantly decreasing. The gene pool of the Russians, you are ours, is corrupted ... but there is no time to restore it. 25 years (the date of the extended warranty of the Strategic Missile Forces nuclear warheads is getting closer and closer .... But the PLA is nearby, and that all the lands after the Urals are not hidden by the Chinese people.
            The same applies to am, Belarusians, Tatars, sadly ... everyone, these wars were hooked.
            But you, personally, have great-power chauvinism playing in the pope (remember the notorious Ulyanov), but the good of it is chauvinism.
            Another example, pomnitsa, Moscow Nazis, used to make Russian marches in Brateevo, walked from the Maryino metro to the Brateevo metro. And everyone ... dispersed. My question to us is, there are 5 thousand young healthy guys there, we went to the Moskva shopping center there about a kilometer in all, and they stuffed their face with black asses. I got an answer. STUNNED THERE IS THE SAME GUARD, after which I took off.

            And yet, if you argue on the Internet, try to insult your opponent, put it in your ass.
            1. smile
              smile 13 September 2013 19: 05 New
              +1
              rinat1955
              In principle, what can you expect from a petty nationalist, when he is convicted of the fact that he is an ordinary Natsik, that he will have a barrel organ, about Russian chauvinism is the standard behavior of individuals like you, and the use of hackneyed ones. arguments worked out since the perestroika times ... but your trouble, liar, is that your statements have not gone away.
              Your quote:
              rinat1955 RU Today, 10:24
              The meaning of the article is the same that I now constantly issue in WoT toy RUSSIAN YOU COSTS!

              Where have I made at least one word infringing on the dignity of at least one people? Quote to the barrel! :)))

              You have allowed an insult to an entire nation in your statements. and offended. when you are caught in a lie and something mamlet about insults? What are these insults? I reasonably called you a liar. caught you in a lie. He called a spade a spade ... you, not having the strength to go crazy, are trying to clumsy maneuver. Lack of arguments compensating verbiage ... what kind of opponent are you? :))
              You are a liar operating with Russophobic phraseology, an ordinary petty natsik ... and, I see, a touchy ... :)))
              And yet - if you’re used to either sticking it in your own ... anus, don’t think that such habits are common to everyone :)) I’m just explaining to you what you are lying about, nothing more ....
              So, liar, I ask for a quote - where I made statements here that offend any people.
        2. _CAMOBAP_
          _CAMOBAP_ 14 September 2013 18: 33 New
          +2
          I looked at the statistics of a certain rinat1955 in WOT - according to the "armored site" - // a reindeer breeder of the 3rd class "//, according to the WOT rating - // of limited use //. So you, my friend, noob! And there, try to steer in randomness !
          PySy: For those who do not play tanks, players with such a statute are affectionately called "bottoms", they are "crayfish" and "deer" are those who play without brains and are not capable of anything except olo-lo rush in principle ... Of course, I'm not a super-duper nagibator, but my nickname in the game is moskolom, a strong middle peasant - so Rinatushko, when you get at least // a 1st class tanker //, then write about WOT and how you are there command.
    2. 0255
      0255 14 September 2013 18: 29 New
      0
      The meaning of the article is the same that I now constantly issue in WoT toy RUSSIAN YOU COSTS!

      correspondence in tanks of the USSR cannot be restored. The meaning of such correspondence? Also tell us how you coolly smash the Soviet or Russian army in American computer games. Think it's cool to call cowards in tanks?
      I wish you to be banned in tanks for inciting ethnic hatred!
  11. user
    user 13 September 2013 10: 38 New
    -5
    And thank God that this happened. We still can not rake it, but in the case of the use of weapons?
    Forgot the results of the civil war of 18-20, mom do not cry. . . . .
  12. ammunition
    ammunition 13 September 2013 10: 39 New
    +6
    Quote: rinat1955
    not a single colonel, major, lieutenant was found to take power, to crush both Yeltsin and the GKChP!
    What else does! You’re already in the city, they let you in there! I don’t want to take it!
    EVERYBODY COME!
    I apologize for inciting, swearing .. but it is boiling


    Who are you, actually? to judge.
    I understand that you did not serve in the army at all .. Neither in the Russian, nor (especially) in the Soviet.
    -----------
    And you don’t understand that even beyond the borders of the USSR .. An army with a population .. all the more unarmed .. all the more without an order .. not fighting .
    I'm not talking about the goat armies of the capitalists, who just let them "glorify" against the civilian population. And who immediately impose full underpants against serious opponents.
    --------
    PS Major ***** wa had a cherished dream. Come face to face .. His battalion against the US Marine Corps.
    How do I understand him now!
  13. rinat1955
    rinat1955 13 September 2013 10: 57 New
    +3
    He served, served ... nickname says this, 74-76 Baikonur. So what?
    I say, warriors, that then what is now - pissed off.
    The Egyptian military instantly removed their moron. The Turks are holding their releaseious assholes just as tightly by the balls. About the Latinos, the author of the article painted everything correctly.
    And here ... what a population under the Emergency Committee, when the warriors gave honor to Yeltsin! And the commander of the Dzeozhintsev, Tamanians and others like them ... could not take responsibility (for the seizure of power from the State Emergency Committee) could not ?!
    1. maxvik
      maxvik 13 September 2013 11: 18 New
      0
      And what are you talking about?
      Collect gangs, trunks in a store or in the Caucasus, and you can get into battle.
      Or current in the internet for the nickname of all the military to blaspheme?
      1. rinat1955
        rinat1955 13 September 2013 11: 29 New
        +2
        We are already old ... and empires are being created by the young. And they piss!
    2. ebrd
      ebrd 13 September 2013 11: 31 New
      +1
      Quote: rinat1955
      He served, served ... nickname says this, 74-76 Baikonur. So what?
      I say, warriors, that then what is now - pissed off.

      He served in Baikonur, a warrior? Yes, you’re just a rear rat! Many people here passed Afghanistan and Chechnya, they know very well what it means-- to destroy someone ... this is with you all your life ... you thought you had to shoot your own, Russian? ... then ,, heroes ,,? .... no brains in your head ....
      1. smile
        smile 13 September 2013 13: 10 New
        +1
        ebrd
        He has no conscience, not brains. Yes, and brains, too, a man about fifty years old, and he plays in tanks and boasts that he boldly convinces the Russians of cowardice .... scream! :))) Anika-warrior ... you're right, just a rear rat, also a coward, moreover ...
      2. rinat1955
        rinat1955 13 September 2013 15: 28 New
        +1
        Where they sent there and served, and prepared for military duty. For six months I attended DOSAAF courses, in my personal time, as I remember right now 3 times a week, and by the beginning of the service I was fulfilling the standards of a master in my profession. So what about a rat, etc. do not.
        We, in those years, had a lot of tension with the PLA ... but they slipped ...
        1. smile
          smile 13 September 2013 17: 35 New
          +1
          rinat1955
          Okay, about the rear rat, I'm wrong - you really went to serve where you sent. excuse me. But the accusation of cowardice of all Russians in the virtual space is precisely the rat behavior of petty Natsik.
  14. chenia
    chenia 13 September 2013 11: 01 New
    +4
    For armies, by the way, it is characteristic that in the coups they did not act as an independent force (and even if they did it very rarely, uncertainly and unsuccessfully, the Decembrists, a conspiracy against Hitler).

    But the weak armies (Greece, Argentina, I’m silent about Africa in general) are the masters in these matters. But from an external blow they crumble instantly. Franco and Pinochet were just lucky that there was no examiner like England and Turkey.

    Code of Honor, discipline. the conviction that interference in internal affairs (INDEPENDENTLY) is not their business is a deterrent to the Great Armies.
  15. rinat1955
    rinat1955 13 September 2013 11: 06 New
    -1
    Quote: ammunition
    I'm not talking about the goat armies of the capitalists, who just let them "glorify" against the civilian population. And who immediately impose full underpants against serious opponents. --------

    Well, yes ... and in Chechnya, they ONLY militants soaked our fighters?
    To heap, are you sure that our modern warriors do not impose full underpants on serious opponents? Personally, I'm not sure ... anyway, looking at the jerks from the WoT toy.
    Yes, and here ... his (major) battalion against the US Marine Regiment. Does he, major, not understand that the marines will not shoot with him from the rifle?
    1. maxvik
      maxvik 13 September 2013 11: 22 New
      +4
      Yes, a WoT toy is a good point. And the 6th company is 84 accidents. What are you talking about?
    2. ammunition
      ammunition 13 September 2013 11: 26 New
      +2
      Quote: rinat1955
      Yes, and here ... his (major) battalion against the US Marine Regiment. Does he, major, not understand that the marines will not shoot with him from the rifle?


      The major understood everything well. By the way .. then that major commanded regiments in the 201-th division.
      -------
      But you do not quite understand.
      But you gave a great thought - It was necessary to transfer the construction battalion from Baikonur to Moscow, and there would be no problems.
      You are animals! .. You don’t even get weapons. For - it is fraught! laughing
    3. Vlad 1965
      Vlad 1965 13 September 2013 13: 05 New
      -2
      rinat1955

      Sorry, BUT YOU ARE COMPLETE, MORAL NONSIDERENCY, ONCE FOR THE SOLDIER AND OFFICERS WHO FULFILLED THE TASK IN THE CHR, IN THE 1 AND 2 COMPANY, LAUNCH BEGIN.
      1. rinat1955
        rinat1955 13 September 2013 14: 58 New
        0
        What am I raising? The guys fought, they fought normally. Only this one truth!
        But the Chechens say, and you figley climbed here, under the king? And not only the Chechens, and not only the Caucasus.
        Once again ... do not be distracted, we are talking about why there were no military coups in the Russian army.
        I say - the Russian commanders became cowardly, and you tell me about the paratroopers.
    4. The comment was deleted.
      1. rinat1955
        rinat1955 13 September 2013 14: 46 New
        0
        Who told you that only children play WoT? I spend half an hour a day on it. Perfectly relieves adrenaline, relaxes after nervous work.
        So to the question "are there pensioners?" out of 30 people from both teams, at least 3 people respond.
        1. smile
          smile 13 September 2013 17: 41 New
          +2
          rinat1955
          Well, yes, well, yes, and it is your virtual shells that Russian tankers are terribly afraid of ... :))) I am aware that people of different ages indulge in VT, but no one gets to such a degree of idiotttttism that, based on their "combat experience "yell that all Russians are cowards. True, then you began to get out and say that only all Russian officers are cowardly, but all your comments here, you will not be able to get out.
  16. chenia
    chenia 13 September 2013 11: 06 New
    +3
    Quote: rinat1955
    The Egyptian military instantly removed their moron.


    That is why Israel had their army in different positions (confirmation of the rule) ..
  17. rinat1955
    rinat1955 13 September 2013 11: 09 New
    +1
    In the elderberry garden, and in Kiev, uncle ... this is a replica of Israel
  18. rinat1955
    rinat1955 13 September 2013 11: 14 New
    +1
    A strong army ... I do not understand this, before the Second World War in the USSR there was also a strong army ... so what?
    There, the soldiers were brave and the commanders were also waiting for orders .. well?
    1. smile
      smile 13 September 2013 13: 21 New
      0
      rinat1955
      Well, they overwhelmed the Wehrmacht's best war machine on the Planet at that time, supported by the millions of armies of German satellites. And you do not know? Upgrade the tower in your favorite toy - it doesn’t fry you.
      1. rinat1955
        rinat1955 13 September 2013 15: 02 New
        -4
        Failed up ... I do not argue (having lost, at the same time, all my brave men), laid a million Germans and 37 million of their own.
        1. smile
          smile 13 September 2013 17: 53 New
          +2
          rinat1955
          If you had a mind and you didn’t spend time on toys. then you would know. that in battles with the Germans and their satellites we went to combat losses of 1 to 1. The rest of our losses are a peace and tortured prisoners. And there are 28 million of them.
          Help for especially playful.
          From the age of 39, only 21 to 24 million Germans visited the Wehrmacht alone.
          Over a million soldiers have passed through the Finnish army since 41, etc. further laziness "to throw beads before the saints" - you will find it yourself. if you like. Where. , are all these millions of soldiers gone? Are you sick? Or did the Americans fill them up?
          In the same period, 34 million passed through the Red Army. ON FRONTS, INCLUDING AND AGAINST JAPAN, 24 MILLION ARRIVED.
          All. Alles understand? You are not only a great tank leader, you are also a great historian! :)))
          This is how one should hate Russia and Russians, or what one needs to be an oligophrenic to lie like that ..... get into the site’s archives on this subject and fill up the void in your head.
  19. rinat1955
    rinat1955 13 September 2013 11: 18 New
    -2
    How many years have passed since the GKChP ... are they all the same, warriors? We will soon sit on our heads, whether the Chinese or these ... from Israel. And they all chew snot. My eyes would not see them.
    1. smile
      smile 13 September 2013 13: 42 New
      -2
      rinat1955
      Yes, you obviously didn’t look, get out of your virtual toy and take a look, otherwise you would really play.
  20. rinat1955
    rinat1955 13 September 2013 11: 24 New
    +2
    Well, the fact that Andropov was a mishandled Cossack ... flashes in different places. In the form of assumptions, but flickers, and that the Sevenfold was tidied up so that her comrade could free the way. Immediately on the site, in the articles, it flashes that the KGB was one of those rotten fish heads.
  21. tverskoi77
    tverskoi77 13 September 2013 11: 59 New
    +3
    It was not necessary to send troops to Moscow, but to Foros and one DShB dressed in adidas tracksuits. Perhaps this saved the country from collapse.
  22. allekkss
    allekkss 13 September 2013 12: 06 New
    +5
    The army is a structure with a rigid hierarchy. And in this structure there is such a position as the Supreme Commander. It is this person who should determine the goals and directions of using the army. What goals did the Army Commander-in-Chief set during the coup? A rhetorical question. Then what goals could the commanders set for their subordinates. What goals - such is the result. And as soon as the army begins to actively intervene in the politics of its own country, nothing good comes out. As an example, you can see the same Latin American countries, Africa, where one junta replaces another, etc. Power should be legitimate in the eyes of the majority of the country's population, and not rely on the strength of the weapons of its own army.
  23. Vadim2013
    Vadim2013 13 September 2013 12: 58 New
    +2
    Quote: Boris55
    3. And the last thing - something, I did not see a crowd of civilians near the military registration and enlistment offices wishing to defend the USSR with arms in their hands.
    So before blaming the army for inaction - let them look in the mirror.

    It is very correctly written.
    1. rinat1955
      rinat1955 13 September 2013 13: 13 New
      +2
      Figley civilians in the military enlistment offices go.
      You, warriors (security forces), we pay money, so you work.
      And then you quote the oath, but such words ..
      swear to be honest, brave, disciplined, watchful warrior,
      That's how it is, especially with courage. Especially for the commanders, and how to throw machine guns on the forehead is ordinary, and how to tame the moron in power, our commanders write (to put it mildly.
  24. Imperial
    Imperial 13 September 2013 13: 07 New
    +2
    Well, as for me, so by this time the people were morally decomposed, and where did we get the army? right from the people, so there’s nothing to blame for the army. There were other structures that were supposed to observe morality, but they were so stiff by the time that everything that they gave out was taken with hostility.
  25. rinat1955
    rinat1955 13 September 2013 13: 08 New
    -2
    Quote: allekkss
    The army is a structure with a rigid hierarchy. And in this structure there is such a position as the Supreme Commander. It is this person who should determine the goals and directions of using the army. What goals did the Army Commander-in-Chief set during the coup? A rhetorical question. Then what goals could the commanders set for their subordinates. What goals - such is the result. And as soon as the army begins to actively intervene in the politics of its own country, nothing good comes out. As an example, you can see the same Latin American countries, Africa, where one junta replaces another, etc. Power should be legitimate in the eyes of the majority of the country's population, and not rely on the strength of the weapons of its own army.


    Yeah .. you tell the Egyptian military, or Chilean. In particular, according to Pinochet, who, having driven out the Communists, put things in order in the country. And the Egyptians, they did not care about their sovereign, did not give a damn about the victims among the opportunists, and now they are finishing off the remnants of the Islamists.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. rinat1955
        rinat1955 13 September 2013 15: 54 New
        -1
        Are you serious that Pinochet has braked his country? Are you sure ... Under Pinochet, the country made a breakthrough, of course, the recharge from the USA was not small. But he himself, Pinochet, was not.
        1. smile
          smile 13 September 2013 17: 56 New
          0
          rinat1955
          Read the two-day-old article. there are links ... or rinat is not a reader, but a writer and a tank driver? :)))
    2. allekkss
      allekkss 13 September 2013 14: 31 New
      +2
      Quote: rinat1955
      Quote: allekkss
      The army is a structure with a rigid hierarchy. And in this structure there is such a position as the Supreme Commander. It is this person who should determine the goals and directions of using the army. What goals did the Army Commander-in-Chief set during the coup? A rhetorical question. Then what goals could the commanders set for their subordinates. What goals - such is the result. And as soon as the army begins to actively intervene in the politics of its own country, nothing good comes out. As an example, you can see the same Latin American countries, Africa, where one junta replaces another, etc. Power should be legitimate in the eyes of the majority of the country's population, and not rely on the strength of the weapons of its own army.


      Yeah .. you tell the Egyptian military, or Chilean. In particular, according to Pinochet, who, having driven out the Communists, put things in order in the country. And the Egyptians, they did not care about their sovereign, did not give a damn about the victims among the opportunists, and now they are finishing off the remnants of the Islamists.


      I forgot that we are equal to Egypt and Chile. Let's remember that in Russia princes were primarily military commanders, and only then politicians. There was a time for everything, the Union was born in the flames of a civil war, but when it died, citizens had the education, knowledge, and brains to stop it, no one wanted to stop it. The political struggle within the country is not the business of the army in any developed social state. Too much obscure and incomprehensible to start shooting at their citizens.
    3. aleks77
      aleks77 13 September 2013 19: 02 New
      +2
      So go there and live in peace.
      I do not compare the army with a dog. Not a single normal domestic dog, the protector of the house living with people (no matter how terrible it is for those around her), will rush to members of the family whom she lives and perceives as her own, even if ordered, she will not understand what they want from her, she does not perceive them for strangers for enemies. And those mongrels who roar at their own, during serious troubles from the outside get clogged, whining, where far away and more dangerous for their own than for strangers.
      Regarding the KGB, remember who the new democratic government was the first to rush to disband and dissolve.
  26. Doctorleg
    Doctorleg 13 September 2013 13: 10 New
    +1
    And as soon as the army begins to actively intervene in the politics of its own country, nothing good comes out. As an example, you can see the same Latin American countries, Africa, where one junta replaces another, etc. Power should be legal in the eyes of the majority of the country's population, and not rely on the strength of the weapons of its own army.


    Totally agree!
  27. rinat1955
    rinat1955 13 September 2013 13: 16 New
    +1
    Quote: DoctorOleg
    Power should be legitimate in the eyes of the majority of the country's population, and not rely on the strength of the weapons of its own army.


    Not in the eyebrow but in the eye! Well? Right now the opposite is true!
    1. smile
      smile 13 September 2013 13: 54 New
      -2
      rinat1955
      Most of the people of Russia support the legally elected president - this is unknown only to those who live in the World of Tanks and some swamp degenerates. The rest, even opponents of Pu who have brains, are well aware of this.
      1. rinat1955
        rinat1955 13 September 2013 14: 37 New
        -4
        How do you know that they support GDP?
        According to the election results? G
        GAZ "Vybory" prepared by FAPSI .... tell further?
        The very idea of ​​elections in the age of computer technology is perverted.
        I am a monarchist, and I became one, having read about who the communists were in the past, who supported the communists during the events on Bolotnaya ...
        So if GDP starts to turn nuts in the direction of monarchism, I will be two-handed. But so far this is not visible.
    2. allekkss
      allekkss 13 September 2013 15: 16 New
      0
      But vice versa, Vladimir Vladimirovich, like troops in the city has not yet entered. Yes, the police can go too far at rallies and processions, and at rock concerts, but for the time being, God personally had mercy on me, and I came across quite adequate representatives of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. I believe that if the people considered that our president was not legitimate, and if the people really were concerned, then there would be more protests and political tension within the country, and if this is not the case, then we will get the legitimate power in the eyes of the majority of the population.
      1. rinat1955
        rinat1955 13 September 2013 15: 51 New
        0
        The people may and do care ... but there are very few brave men. Sssym we all ... including me. You epic MMM remember how it ended here in Albania ...
        1. allekkss
          allekkss 13 September 2013 17: 27 New
          +1
          And where did the brave men, if they had peered, so the brave men would have been found, in 1905 peered, that’s the bourgeois revolution, and in 1917 the socialist revolution. And 1991 was capitalist, I was about 7 years old then, but I understand how the people, including my relatives, were running and with fire in my eyes said that we had to vote for Yeltsin and that capitalist communism was about to begin. I’m not saying that a legitimate government is necessarily popularly elected in a single impulse. Legitimate power is power that eliminates the majority, even if that majority did not elect it. Who elected the kings - no one, but their power was legitimate. Elections to the general secretaries were essentially fictitious, but their power was quite legitimate. So, Vladimir Vladimirovich, a completely legitimate ruler who eliminates the majority of the Russian population would be different if they didn’t have time to register meetings and speeches. And honestly, who of our modern political elite would be acceptable for the majority of our population?
        2. smile
          smile 13 September 2013 18: 01 New
          +1
          rinat1955
          Oh how ... what a commendable change in position - at first you were screaming with foam at the mouth. that the Russians were cowardly, then they began to yell. that only all Russian officers are cowardly ... now you say that "we are all sissy" ... :))) You are going the right way, comrade. :))) even such a rejection of their false statements is quite commendable. :)))
  28. rinat1955
    rinat1955 13 September 2013 13: 29 New
    +4
    Quote: Imperial
    Well, as for me, so by this time the people were morally decomposed, and where did we get the army? right from the people, so there’s nothing to blame for the army. There were other structures that were supposed to observe morality, but they were so stiff by the time that everything that they gave out was taken with hostility.


    I perfectly remember my vision of the GKChP when the tanks entered, the first thought, well, finally (at work the bosses pissed, ran in).
    And when the episode saw that someone was throwing a tank, and the driver for the brakes ... was at a loss.
    Or when they threw a bottle of Molotov cocktail into an infantry fighting vehicle ... and after that the scammer and everyone around him are safe and sound ... I also did not understand this and I do not understand.
    But when, later, at the television center, a company of freaks, shot unarmed ... so they had the courage to do so. They just forgot something about their population.
  29. Volkhov
    Volkhov 13 September 2013 14: 16 New
    +2
    In the article, as in others on this topic, the essence of what is happening is completely perverted - the putsch - the end of the KGB revolution, which he had been preparing for a long time and successfully carried out. It was the KGB that created the "popular fronts", nationalists, foremen of perestroika ...
    In Moscow there was almost no army - there were Chekists disguised as military men. DON Dzerzhinsky - pure security officers, Kantemirovskaya - named after Andropov, the Airborne Forces were closely supervised in the same place. That is, all combat units in Moscow were army by name only - the experience of 53 years was taken into account and Andropov in the Kremlin set the stage for the year.
    The army structures in Moscow - headquarters, communications centers, military commissariats, military representatives are numerous, but just officials, as in the last revolution, the authorities could only defend the cadets from schools.
    That is, the combined forces of "democrats", secret police, elite units with support from abroad were thrown against old people like the strangled Akhromeev - the superiority of forces gave the desired effect.
    Given that Andropov is an American, Glen Miller and the Chekists in general are an American structure ... then an overly independent country has become a colony from an ally’s position and the process is aggravated.
    1. rinat1955
      rinat1955 13 September 2013 14: 43 New
      +2
      Yeah ... I join Comrade Volkhov. As I understand it, about the same now.
  30. rinat1955
    rinat1955 13 September 2013 14: 41 New
    -1
    6th company ... these are the guys who found the USSR, I'm talking about the current bastards, 10-18 years old.
    And you stubbornly slide into the rank and file, I’m talking about commanders. To go against his boss (to make a military coup) neither then nor, much less now, the Russian military man has no courage.
    But the Egyptian is.
    1. smile
      smile 13 September 2013 18: 03 New
      0
      rinat1955
      You. comrade liar, talked about RUSSIAN. about all Russians. you said you always said. that all Russians are cowards. Quote? :)) And do not dodge, do not, just make it worse ... :)))
      1. rinat1955
        rinat1955 13 September 2013 18: 09 New
        -3
        In the context of this article, Russian MILITARY cowards were implied.
        I have not changed my opinion.
        1. smile
          smile 13 September 2013 19: 17 New
          +2
          rinat1955

          Your quote:

          rinat1955 RU Today, 10:24
          The meaning of the article is the same that I now constantly issue in WoT toy RUSSIAN YOU COSTS!

          Here - you yourself say that you constantly give out in a toy - and then you prove this by the behavior of the children in the toy, and not during the Emergency Committee, and you are not talking there about 91 years old. is it true? :))) No need to dodge, it looks unworthy and cowardly, as if you were caught stealing, and you get out :))) Therefore, I repeat that it is very commendable that you changed your point of view. :))) And the Russian cowardly military more than once saved the world. Did I discover America for you? :))
  31. Sochi
    Sochi 13 September 2013 15: 26 New
    +3
    Why the army ... Yes, because by that time the leadership of the USSR had already rotted. Remember the "parade of stats" -Brezhnev, Chernenko, Andropov ... But there was no replacement for them, they were unprepared, apparently they hoped to live and rule forever ... The country stood still, there was no development, there was no tension with goods ... but there were immeasurable slogans and appeals which everyone is already tired of. The people no longer believed in power (everyone saw how power lives and how they themselves live), they lived by inertia, and when everything began to collapse no one lifted a finger in defense of the USSR leadership. Everyone was waiting for changes ... but they were betrayed, in the end, those who had to protect them, it was those who stood guard over ideology and grabbed property, betraying what and those whom they served ...
  32. Eric
    Eric 13 September 2013 15: 32 New
    0
    Quote: krpmlws
    You do not need to cover up your actions with beautiful phrases, hide behind the people. You went against the People and the national interests of the Fatherland. The people and the army are united, rightly so, but why did you and the state security bodies throw the people in 91 and 93? This is a betrayal of the people and the Motherland. At 91 you hoped that you would get a cola and gum, and at 93 you lost heart, went after those who pay the grandmother. An ORDER for a soldier is his conscience, it must remain when the Soviet Government betrays the people. (I remember footage, as General Rutskoi calls on the military to come to the rescue on the radio ...) "And the last thing" - yes, not only you betrayed, but many others, you are right about that.


    the army did not have a Leader, a leader who would have foreseen a similar outcome .....
  33. chenia
    chenia 13 September 2013 15: 44 New
    +3
    Quote: rinat1955
    That's how it is, especially with courage. Especially for the commanders, and how to throw machine guns on the forehead is ordinary, and how to tame the moron in power, our commanders write (to put it mildly.


    How do you know? Solonina and Astafyeva have been reading? So neither the second (although I fought, but did not go on the attack), but I generally keep quiet about the first.

    You see it is useless to explain how the army differs from the gang. This gang is climbing into all the internal disassemblies.

    A real army needs an order from a less legitimate civilian person or center.
    And Franco and Pinochet were illegitimate, and under certain conditions they could be thrown off with the help of external forces (and if Spain and Chile bordered on the USSR - unambiguously), and their stability was the result of the Cold War, since they destroyed the Communists .

    And I repeat once again, the weaker the army, the more it pulls in coups.
    1. rinat1955
      rinat1955 13 September 2013 16: 04 New
      0
      And I repeat again, the Egyptian military removed the Mursi, not being afraid of either the corpses of the Muslim Brotherhood supporters or the Westerners who Mursi planted.
  34. rinat1955
    rinat1955 13 September 2013 16: 10 New
    0
    Franco stopped the civil war, did NOT repress the Republicans (although he defeated them), died his death in old age.
    Pinochet also saved the camp from civil war (although the Soviet ships were waiting only for an order from Allende, but he wasn’t either, a communist, died with a machine gun in his hands, I remember that story) ... though local liberals drove him ... well kooky amers.
    What is wrong with this junta?
    1. smile
      smile 13 September 2013 18: 06 New
      0
      rinat1955
      The repressions against the Republicans lasted for decades, during the 40s they underwent total extermination ... are you really so stupid or intentionally lying?
      1. rinat1955
        rinat1955 13 September 2013 19: 05 New
        -1
        Are you sure you communicated with the Spaniards personally, or did you find out from the communist press about the destruction of the Republicans? You personally communicate ... For one thing with Italians, about their attitude towards the Duce. When he drove the rich (for 1 summer month) from their luxurious villas on the sea, and sent a city kid. And the Italians remember everything.
        1. smile
          smile 13 September 2013 20: 53 New
          0
          smile
          The Spaniards all declassified for a long time, when they ended the fascist period, they shook all their guts out. There are lots of memoirs on both sides. Only those who study the history and psychology of peoples on virtual toys do not know about this .... :)))
  35. rinat1955
    rinat1955 13 September 2013 16: 11 New
    -1
    As I understand it, no one supports my point of view about the cowardice of the recent commanders of the Soviet army of the 80s? And the fact that the commanders of the units introduced in Moscow are well done. All support.
    1. allekkss
      allekkss 13 September 2013 18: 16 New
      +1
      They are great in that, without introducing a mass of troops into the city, they practically did not crush anyone or cripple, and did not hysteria. But the fact that they did not shoot at their own citizens was not cowardly, the Soviet commanders were not trained in internal warfare, it was not an external enemy to stop this, but to fight with their own population was a little different. So this is not cowardice, rather confusion, but you can’t judge them for it, then many people were confused. Yes, and civil war in a strong power. I can imagine with what readiness and speed the United States and its allies would bring troops into Russia in this case. Now we would live, probably as good as anywhere in Lebanon or even Iraq.
      1. rinat1955
        rinat1955 13 September 2013 19: 03 New
        -2
        Yeah, they weren’t trained, they didn’t shoot at their own .. but literally a year later (I had already forgotten the lope) they calmly shot the unarmed at the television center. Moreover, I then videotaped directly from the television set, there are shots when the drunk is sitting at the bus stop, and from the television center, hop and a corpse! Or a cyclist riding on the road (evening, a little dull, the light of street lamps, and he slamming the clap on the tires ... having fun guarding the television center.
        They were shown afterwards, by simple Russian guys, not a single black-legged and narrow-eyed one.
        1. allekkss
          allekkss 13 September 2013 20: 07 New
          +1
          So a year later, a lot of interesting things began. The old ideology is gone, and the place of the new loot has taken, which are already their own. In any case, "having fun" and "being ordered" are slightly different things. We were discussing here why the military didn’t take it when they had the opportunity, not for "entertainment" they had to do it. :-)
  36. bistrov.
    bistrov. 13 September 2013 16: 44 New
    +2
    Yes, at that time I served in the Soviet Army and wholeheartedly supported the GKChP. He was very disappointed with his defeat. It seemed that he somehow broke down. He was especially disappointed in Yazov, the then Minister of Defense. Well, somehow, to a former front-line officer, and so to save before some lousy Gorbachev and Yeltsin. Yes, I would have torn them to pieces!
  37. Vadim2013
    Vadim2013 13 September 2013 17: 22 New
    -1
    Quote: smile
    Vadim2013
    Well, why are you weaving this, who shot you there? ...

    I was at the White House in the 3 company. The guys in our company detained the scout, but it was decided to let him go. We were not given weapons. An assault was expected from 20 to August 21. The officer instructed us what to do during the assault. At the White House, I saw several officers in uniform. Where I was we were not shot. Bursts of shots were heard, apparently, where the BMP broke through and three children died. One of them was shot dead by a lieutenant, as I later found out. I did not defend Yeltsin at the White House, but People’s Deputies. What will be the further collapse of the USSR and wild capitalism I did not expect as a member of the SDPR.
    1. smile
      smile 13 September 2013 19: 31 New
      +1
      Vadim2013
      This changes a lot. I got the impression. that you were among that frenzied crowd of Muscovites who was on the barricades. And so you were where the commander sent you and acted as part of the instructions. I remove claims and apologize for the harshness of the statements. Excuse me.
      As for the shot, I hope you remember. that the Letyokha opened fire when the "demonstrators" who climbed onto the box dragged him out to reprisal the crowd. Two more idiots were killed when the same car began to maneuver, being plastered over by the blood-thirsty democrats. It seems the fly was justified in view of the fact that his actions were deemed not to go beyond the necessary defense.
  38. chenia
    chenia 13 September 2013 18: 24 New
    +1
    Quote: rinat1955
    And I repeat again, the Egyptian military removed the Mursi, not being afraid of either the corpses of the Muslim Brotherhood supporters or the Westerners who Mursi planted.


    And I repeat again, Israel had these great Arab warriors in all places. Here you have Kiev, here’s your uncle. Then it was necessary to prove why the army was needed.
    1. rinat1955
      rinat1955 13 September 2013 19: 09 New
      -2
      Nothing would have been left from your Jews ... if the loaf were not vigorous. And you repeat the story of 50 years ago. This runaway people will crush one thing ... again they will run somewhere, and I guess where.
  39. chenia
    chenia 13 September 2013 18: 36 New
    +1
    Quote: rinat1955
    Franco stopped the civil war, did NOT repress the Republicans (although he defeated them), died his death in old age.
    Pinochet also saved the camp from civil war (


    Spain under Franco was a poor, underdeveloped country, it was she who later rose relatively under Carlos.
    Chile is a showcase of capitalism, the states helped (forced), otherwise Pinochet would have broken lightly, and the Cuban version. Therefore, the star-striped had to shell out.
    1. rinat1955
      rinat1955 13 September 2013 19: 12 New
      -1
      So what ... rose, then Uncle Pinochet (if I am not mistaken, at that time Colonel of the General Staff, or Ground Commander) means he calculated all the advantages and disadvantages.
      I agree with Spain ... but then Carlos after Franco came .. on everything prepared. In any case, Franco then went against the USSR, did not piss ... and Pinochet did not piss. Take a chance and win
  40. rinat1955
    rinat1955 13 September 2013 19: 06 New
    -2
    Quote: bistrov.
    defense. Well, somehow, to a former front-line officer, and so to save before some lousy Gorbachev and Yeltsin. Yes, I would have torn them to pieces!


    Here! And so they are there all the warriors of that time, pissed! Fat courage ate.
  41. goats denis
    goats denis 13 September 2013 19: 10 New
    +1
    The trouble is that none of the military took responsibility either Marshal Yazov, nor any general, nor any officer or ensign. But now they are giving out interviews with might and main. So this shows if any politician decides to turn over the country, our army will remain in the barracks and observe.
  42. largus886
    largus886 13 September 2013 19: 20 New
    +2
    Thank God the army did not take sides in 1991! There would be a lot of blood, I myself ran to rallies for 20 years and screamed for Yeltsin. And if shooting would start, then I would climb on the barricades! The insight came in 93, when the parliament was shot under the Air Force cameras. And here the blood spilled! The army should be out of politics. Who was right or wrong at 93?
    1. goats denis
      goats denis 13 September 2013 19: 26 New
      -1
      The army in all countries is the guarantor of the constitution and territorial integrity of the country. So the army cannot out of politics.
  43. chenia
    chenia 13 September 2013 19: 41 New
    +2
    Quote: Denis Kozlov
    The trouble is that none of the military took responsibility either Marshal Yazov, nor any general, nor any officer or ensign.


    The trouble is that the KGB comrades did not choose a bridge higher and a smaller river, and so several times for especially liberoid-minded comrades.

    Quote: rinat1955
    Colonel of the General Staff, or Ground Commander)


    An indicator that you are teaching history by jokes, and you have a distant idea of ​​the army (getting confused according to job title).

    I repeat the rule, the stronger the army, the less the tendency to coups. And to understand why, you need to serve as a professional. And already too lazy to explain
    1. rinat1955
      rinat1955 13 September 2013 20: 42 New
      -1
      Quote: chenia
      Quote: Denis goats The trouble is that no one from the military took responsibility either Marshal Yazov, nor any general, nor any officer or ensign. The trouble is that the KGB comrades did not choose a bridge higher and a smaller river, and so several times for especially liberoid-minded comrades.


      But I insist that it’s not necessary from a sick mind to a healthy one, the military general, Comrade Yazov, crap! (if I’m not mistaken, he, then almost cried, do not put me to the old man, to jail) pah ... Fat courage ate! I have absolutely no idea in this situation Major General Dudaev. He made a military coup, lost, but in the memory of his people remained a national hero! What about Yazov?
      1. largus886
        largus886 13 September 2013 21: 15 New
        +1
        And as a result of his heroism, tens of thousands of Russian and Chechen guys were killed! For me, the "traitor" Kadyrov senior is better.
        1. rinat1955
          rinat1955 16 September 2013 09: 45 New
          0
          Or oil?
          Quote: largus886
          And as a result of his heroism, tens of thousands of Russian and Chechen guys were killed! For me, the "traitor" Kadyrov senior is better.


          Without the Dudaev, there would be no Kadyrovs, no matter how they relate to the events in Chechnya, but the people fought for their freedom ... and it was not clear to me personally what kind of guys we let Georgia go, the Abkhazians were released, and the Chenes weren’t released ... there’s honey Is it Plastered?
  44. rinat1955
    rinat1955 13 September 2013 20: 34 New
    -1
    You recall how many decades ago there was a coup in Chile? I specifically did not climb into the network, so as not to bring down those very memories
  45. _CAMOBAP_
    _CAMOBAP_ 13 September 2013 22: 03 New
    +6
    In those years I served in the Airborne Forces, in the 104th, Kirovabad division, 337 infantry regiment. The first time they raised us on the alarm on February 27, 1988, they took us off the field exit and started off - I'm still sure that then it was possible to crush this infection in the bud. But alas - then we did not find our own Pinochet or Jaruzelski. There were as many traitors and scoundrels at the very pinnacle of power, but there were no pinochets ... Betrayal stank everywhere. The top rotted away, the head - and the body without the head - a piece of meat. And the senior ensign Goncharenko, a war veteran - his blessed memory spoke correctly - "Reagan is not in America, Rygan has been in Moscow for a long time!" Even then, in August 91, Grachev and Lebed could have stopped the catastrophe - they were then respected in the troops and all this husk from the White House would have been carried out in half an hour - but, again, "but" - they were weak at the break, both. And they paid a terrible price - they remained in human memory not as military generals, but as a "Pasha-Mercedes" and a signer of the Khasavyurt surrender. Both "fell" under the never-dry "fighter with privileges." As they say - "by the relics - and oil".
  46. combat192
    combat192 13 September 2013 22: 57 New
    +1
    What, in fact, are we talking about? Could the Army do something?
    But were there at that time her leaders who could take over the leadership (while cutting off all the other communication channels) and RESPONSIBILITY for current and future events?
    If there were such, I personally, without hesitation, would follow them.
  47. Pushkar
    Pushkar 13 September 2013 23: 11 New
    +1
    The author of the article is very saddened that there was not a lot of blood, as in the exemplary Chilean putsch. Well, who likes what. By 1991, our Army had already been reduced twice, dispersed, substituted (Vilnius, Tbilisi, etc.). And by and large, people didn't care who wins - the Stavropol or Sverdlovsk regional committee secretary. Our Army has always been a people's army, it remained a people's army, and then, it did not start shooting at the people. And if in fact someone wanted to stage a coup, then three or four operational groups of militia would be enough to arrest Yeltsin, Shevardnadze and a couple more. In general, I think that it was the labeled one who started it, because when things went wrong, Yanaev and Co. ran to him in Foros, and then, getting off the plane, he called them eccentrics with the letter "m". In August 1991, the collapse of the USSR was just over, but it was being destroyed for a long time.
  48. igorrus3
    igorrus3 13 September 2013 23: 36 New
    +1
    Good evening everyone. I read comments about the army, and that there was an order to borrow a telegraph, TV, banks, etc. There was an order to lead the troops into the city and then wait there ...
    And the one who had to give the order chilled out in Foros. Do you remember how Yanaev's hands were shaking at the press conference, how the rest looked? Well, remember? There was no order. The hunchback did not give it up, he was then the Commander-in-Chief. And there is no need to blame the majors, colonels, generals, they are just in those cases not within the limits, and that some who regret that they did not find their own "Bonaparte" so the conspiracy was not in the classical form. Personally, I still cannot understand why this performance was needed, the funnel drove up at night, and in the morning everyone would shout in unison - "THE DECISION OF THE PARTY IN LIFE, or THE PEOPLE AND THE PARTY OF UNITY" Well, the future holders of the "Defender of Free Russia" medals were nervous and would calm down.
  49. understudy
    understudy 14 September 2013 00: 31 New
    +3
    "A specific feature of the Moscow Military District since Stalin's times was that the Moscow region was the location of the most privileged and combat-ready formations of the army and the Ministry of Internal Affairs at that time, these are the famous Taman motorized rifle and Kantemirovskaya tank divisions, but also of course the famous division of the internal troops named after Felix Dzerzhinsky, and also many other individual parts and connections ... "
    _______________________________________________
    I haven't laughed like that for a long time, for all these structures have long become a gathering place for "sons" and other dynastic criminals. After the well-known events, the division commanders of these "Arbat" divisions were quickly pushed into the Western Group of Forces to their posts with a promotion - I have not met the cowardly and intimidated generals. They left Yazov's portraits on the walls as a special tool, so one of them was almost soldered off after hysterics with hiccups.
    1. Alekseev
      Alekseev 14 September 2013 10: 52 New
      0
      Quote: Understudy
      The divisional commanders of these "Arbat" divisions were quickly pushed into the Western Group of Forces in positions with a promotion - I have never met cowardly and intimidated generals.

      Absolutely accurate definition! good
      "Why didn't the army become the last stronghold of Soviet statehood?"
      The statement of the question is "extremely" blunt. lol
      Why?
      Yes, because the army is an integral part of this very statehood!
      The political leadership of "statehood" "rotted away", but the military, they say, did not touch the rotten processes!
      Or were everyone in the army happy with the Central Committee and Humpback?
      Or were there no generals who kept their noses in the wind (for example, Pasha Mercedes and others)?
      Do not confuse the SA - in fact, the "armed people", with the royal guard of the 18th century!
  50. _CAMOBAP_
    _CAMOBAP_ 14 September 2013 15: 10 New
    0
    Quote: rinat1955
    Phrases like "hey Kazakh, what are you worth, you disgrace the nation, lead to an instant reaction, the player goes to peed right away. An analogue for a player with a nickname like inav2001 does not give any result.

    Yes, you, dear, at least just a deer, a cancer and a noob in one bottle - if only because during the fight in the same WoT, only deer can write. Well, for mentioning nationality in an insulting context, it’s quite easy for your team players to stuff cucumbers full of hollows, and even banned by a hairdryer. By the way, stunned, but how do you distinguish a nation in a game - by nickname or what? Yap bullshit ...
    1. rinat1955
      rinat1955 16 September 2013 11: 19 New
      0
      in the same WoT, only deer can write

      Ehehe ... I know such people, they turn the game into work.

      And they themselves do not want to help or help. (because the keyboard is not at odds)

      Usually they sit in the bushes. They stupidly wait for them to be shot, poorly understanding that experience and points for initiative in the toy are coming.