Military Review

On the “timely explosion” of the Indian submarine and its consequences for Russia

108
On board the Indian submarine (S) S63 "Sindurakshak" two explosions occurred, as a result of which she sank at the dock of a naval shipyard in Mumbai. 18 crew members aboard the submarine most likely died.


Around midnight, a fire started on the boat, which the crew tried to put out for two hours. Then two explosions occurred: one of lesser force, the other more powerful, the sound of which was heard in the southern part of Mumbai, and the fireball was visible at a considerable distance.

This boat was built in Russia (tab - 1995 year, launching - 1997 year) under the project 877EKM. In 2010, a fire broke out in the battery compartment aboard the Sindurakshak, killing one Indian sailor. The cause was called a faulty battery valve, due to which the concentration of hydrogen gas increased, leading to an explosion. At the same time, all domestic-built boats have automatic gas analyzers, which determine the concentration of hydrogen in the air and signal that the permissible values ​​are exceeded. The actions of the crew when the alarm is triggered do not pose any difficulty. They are standard and must be repeatedly worked out in training for the struggle for survivability.

Just recently, the submarine was modernized at the Zvezdochka plant (Severodvinsk) and was transferred to the Indian Navy 27 in January of this year. As a result of the modernization, S63 received the Club-S missile system, a new control system weapons, the hydroacoustic complex and some other systems have been updated. The tragic death of a submarine can have serious consequences and can affect the military-technical cooperation of Russia and India. It is lately and so is experiencing difficulties.

22 – 24 Jun. US Secretary of State John Kerry visited India on an official visit. The purpose of the visit was negotiations on the evolution of the regional architecture of Asia. In other words, the US is trying to split the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) by playing on the contradictions of India and China. It must be said that the SCO (which includes Russia as well) is an organization that does not suit the United States by the very fact of its existence. This is an attempt to remove the contradictions between the countries of the region, to solve the issues of Eurasian security and economic development by the countries of the region themselves. That is, without the participation of the United States. Another thing is that the influence of China in the SCO prevails. And India and China have many difficulties in relations. China will no doubt be the economic leader for the foreseeable future. And he will support his leadership with military power. This leadership fears India, which has had several military conflicts with China. And these fears are skillfully played by the Americans. John Kerry in New Delhi openly made it clear that the United States is ready to help India strengthen, naturally, in peak China:

"The United States not only welcomes the rise of India as a world power, but also intends to promote this in every way."

In 2009, a bilateral agreement was signed between the United States and India on US control over the use of modern weapons in the Indian armed forces. And this agreement is directly related to Russian-Indian cooperation. We began to lose military contracts to Western companies, and in general, the volume of Russian arms supplies is beginning to decline. Western "partners" seek to wrest India from regional structures, switching this country to their own interests.

Meanwhile, India is one of the main foreign customers of the Russian aviation, rocket and naval technology. Indian orders, while the Russian leadership neglected the country's defense capabilities, largely allowed the domestic shipbuilding and aviation industries to exist and develop. We are now using the fruits of Russian-Indian military-technical cooperation when Russia finally needed a navy and aviation. The production teams, the experience of the serial construction of ships and submarines, the experience of technical specialists who commissioned the most complex combat systems, have been preserved. India today remains our strategic partner in the joint creation of promising types of weapons and regional security.

This situation can not please the United States. In their interests, the elimination of any regional partnership of sovereign countries, especially in the military field. There is an active informational influence on the field of our bilateral cooperation. The quality of Russian armaments and the expediency of their purchases are being questioned, and any reason to prove the ineffectiveness of our partnership is immediately used.

No doubt, this will be the case with the death of the Sindurakshak submarine. This is all the more likely that the tragedy occurred right on the eve of Indian Independence Day, which is traditionally associated with a demonstration of military power. This is too “a good” coincidence not to use it against Russian-Indian military cooperation and not to question the quality of Russian weapons. It is no coincidence that the commander of the Indian fleet Admiral Joshi did not rule out the possibility of sabotage. He said that a fire should not have happened, but it is obvious that the boat’s safety systems were not functioning.

It should be added that the boats of the 877 project are considered among the most massive and reliable in the world. They were built for many countries (China, Algeria, Iran), are part of the Russian fleet and successfully perform military service.
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  1. biglow
    biglow 17 August 2013 12: 12 New
    28
    the explosion on the boat is most likely an accident, especially since a similar incident was already earlier, and is most likely associated with illiteracy of the crew
    1. nagual
      nagual 17 August 2013 12: 48 New
      28
      Surely. The word "sabotage" in the mouth of the Indian admiral can also be interpreted as gouging. Only the death of the boat is still used as an excuse to question the quality of Russian weapons. Here the Indians have little choice. Either admit on Independence Day (!) That the sailors are gouging, or blame it on Russian equipment (on worthless modernization on Zvyozdochka). Therefore - yes, the boat died very "successfully." If someone from the crew received a little money for the timely gouging, then the Indian admiral is right.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Ruslan_F38
        Ruslan_F38 17 August 2013 16: 51 New
        14
        Need to ask a question who benefits from this explosion in the first place? The answer is obvious - usa.
        1. 755962
          755962 17 August 2013 18: 25 New
          17
          Quote: Ruslan_F38
          Who benefits from this explosion in the first place?
    3. Edward72
      Edward72 17 August 2013 17: 10 New
      11
      No comments, and so everything is clear
      1. Santa Fe
        Santa Fe 17 August 2013 19: 37 New
        14
        Meanwhile, India is one of the main foreign customers of Russian aviation, missile and naval equipment.

        It's a long time ago

        Helicopter helicopter tender won by Boeing with its AH-64 Apache Longbow

        Boeing again won the tender for the supply of basic naval aviation with its P-8 Poseidon (in this case, Russia simply had nothing to offer)

        France won the tender for the supply of front-line fighters - instead of the MiG-35, the Indians decided to purchase the 126 "Rafaley"

        Refueling aircraft tender - Airbus wins with its A330 tanker

        New DEPL - Indians use European Scorpene

        Maritime air defense systems - Indians prefer Israeli Barak systems
        The quality of Russian weapons and the appropriateness of their purchases are questioned, and any reason to prove the inefficiency of our partnership is instantly used.

        Guys, in what year did you promise to hand over Wikramadity to India?
        Accidentally not in 2008? What about the leased nuclear submarine K-152 Nerpa? Also in 2008? And when was it transmitted? In 2012. Well done. keep up the good work and you will be left without orders at all
        On the “timely explosion” of the Indian submarine and its consequences for Russia

        Enemies! Enemies Around!

        Anti-submarine aircraft "Poseidon" Indian Navy
        1. Pinochet000
          Pinochet000 18 August 2013 06: 43 New
          10
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          Enemies! Enemies Around!

          Do not believe it! So it is .... The West is unique.
    4. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 18 August 2013 01: 50 New
      +6
      Quote: biglow
      the explosion on the boat is most likely an accident, especially since a similar incident was already earlier, and is most likely associated with illiteracy of the crew


      That's what they will say, they just shut up a coincidence just in time.
    5. Dovmont
      Dovmont 18 August 2013 21: 04 New
      +2
      Or maybe not an accident, there are too many coincidences !!!
  2. Misantrop
    Misantrop 17 August 2013 12: 47 New
    41
    Strange level of material supply (including from the Indian side). What does an automatic valve to a hydrogen explosion have to do with it? For its afterburning, special PDM-1 afterburning furnaces are responsible. Which, incidentally, also produced Simferopol "Fiolent." If someone did not turn on the furnace (or stole a piece of the platinum grid used there as a catalyst), then this is already the crew’s problem ...
    1. zart_arn
      zart_arn 17 August 2013 13: 06 New
      12
      “Varshavyanki” are very reliable diesel engines, but, unfortunately, accidents happen when working with any equipment. Sorry for the Indian sailors ...
    2. Ascetic
      Ascetic 17 August 2013 17: 38 New
      18
      Quote: Misantrop
      If someone did not turn on the furnace (or stole a piece of the platinum grid used there as a catalyst), then this is already the crew’s problem ..


      Probably at night the batteries were recharged as a result of which a voluminous explosion of hydrogen occurred in the battery pit followed by a fire and the spread of fire through open inter-compartment bulkheads and as a result detonation of explosives in the first compartment .. The control of the hydrogen level was entirely on the conscience of the crew and not a jamb of crafts from Russia. either they didn’t look, or I couldn’t build the gas analyzers, or the afterburners didn’t work, or the ventilation system was wrongly sentenced, or all together). The battery is old. The temperature overboard is more than 40 degrees. After such an accident, there is no one to fight for survivability. This is like a version.
      In addition, on this boat there were already at least two cases of fire during the charging of AB, one with human casualties. The reason is not in the design flaws of the boat. The boat is good. 90 percent of accidents in all submarines occur not due to equipment failures, but because of non-fulfillment, or improper or illiterate personnel performing their official duties, as if you weren’t going to a fortuneteller, and it was on an Indian boat.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 17 August 2013 22: 48 New
        +8
        Quote: Ascetic
        Old battery

        And what, with a recent repair on the "Star" did not change it? Old batteries "blow up" pretty much, especially if the MPE system (mechanical mixing of the electrolyte) is not in operation. AB is generally SUCH a thing that requires CONTINUOUS monitoring and maintenance. And if they spit on it, then the consequences usually quickly affect ...
        1. Ascetic
          Ascetic 18 August 2013 08: 30 New
          +5
          Quote: Misantrop
          And what, with a recent repair on the "Star" did not change it?


          I don’t know, I need to know how long these batteries last. She started repair and modernization in August 2010. In November-December 2012, the ship successfully completed a factory test program at landfills in the White Sea, and the Indian Navy again transferred the modernized diesel-electric submarines on January 26, 2013. “Sindurakshak” arrived in Mumbai in April and Since then, it has been actively used as part of the Indian Navy. She made three trips to the sea and traveled over 15 thousand miles.
          According to experts, the incident with the submarine could be caused by one of four reasons, or a complex of such reasons.
          "Among the possible causes, sabotage, hydrogen leakage from the battery pit, violation of the rules for conducting work on equipment, technical failure of one of the systems are most likely ..." there was an overlap of the second and third reasons, that is, it seems that the Indians could combine ammunition loading operations and charging batteries, which is strictly prohibited. "

          "when loading ammunition, all systems are de-energized, hatches between compartments are closed; when charging batteries, hatches, on the contrary, open to provide ventilation." when charging batteries near the mooring wall, "the electrolyte boils more intensively than when they are charged from diesel engines in a campaign, respectively, there is a more intensive evolution of hydrogen." All these processes take place in the bow compartment. There are hydrogen burners, but they could not cope with the allocated volume of gas. "

          Three explosions occurred on board the submarine: first one small, then almost simultaneously two powerful ones, after which a fire started on the boat and it sank. This indirectly confirms the expert’s version, according to which first hydrogen exploded, then they could detonate the ammunition.
        2. zennon
          zennon 18 August 2013 12: 53 New
          +7
          And what, with a recent repair on the "Star" did not change it? Old batteries are a little "gas" ...

          Indian batteries were installed on the Sindurakshak diesel-electric submarine that exploded on Wednesday, Interfax reports citing a source in the Russian shipbuilding industry.
          Russian-made batteries were replaced with Indian ones during the planned modernization of the Indian Navy at the Zvezdochka Shipbuilding Center in Severodvinsk in 2010.
          The batteries were replaced at the request of the customer.
    3. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 18 August 2013 20: 45 New
      +3
      The valve vomited with meat, the pressure had been exceeded many times, the piece of iron had rebounded, the hydrogen was very squeezed ... it could be like that, especially if the batteries were “not of our manufacture”.
    4. Dovmont
      Dovmont 18 August 2013 21: 07 New
      +1
      It’s too early for the Hindus to manage such a complex technique. They waved vajra for 3 thousand years, let them wave it for another 500 years!
  3. armandos
    armandos 17 August 2013 13: 04 New
    +9
    It also seems to me that this is a fatal accident, but the United States will certainly take advantage of this. I only hope that India will not interrupt its cooperation with us.
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 17 August 2013 13: 16 New
      +8
      quote — It is no coincidence that the Commander-in-Chief of the Indian Navy, Admiral Joshi, did not rule out the possibility of sabotage. He said a fire should not have happened, but obviously that the boat’s safety systems were not functioning.

      Most likely it was. I think that in further cooperation between Russia and India, there are no grounds for concern.
      Infa to thinking
      The Russian side does not yet see technical reasons that could lead to an explosion on an Indian submarine
      more details http://armstass.su/?page=article&aid=120942&cid=24

      and more

      Media: India may buy several submarines from Russia
      more details http://vz.ru/news/2013/8/16/645945.html
      1. Botanologist
        Botanologist 17 August 2013 15: 28 New
        23
        I think we are too nervous about the boat accident. French Mirages in India are also falling, but France does not shout "Mustache is gone, now our equipment will look bad", and calmly explain to the Hindu comrades that it is necessary to look after the equipment. And do not ride girls on a combat plane.
        It’s the same as I ditched the car, and then I scream - Toyota or BMW garbage, I couldn’t even bring down the pillar belay
        So you do not need to take on someone else's stupidity and gouging.
        1. Shadowcat
          Shadowcat 17 August 2013 15: 56 New
          +6
          Maybe we just read a little French in special forums?)
          1. nickname 1 and 2
            nickname 1 and 2 18 August 2013 13: 17 New
            +2
            Quote: ShadowCat
            Maybe we just read a little French in special forums?)


            Let’s write in Russian! Bumm read.
            1. Shadowcat
              Shadowcat 19 August 2013 01: 30 New
              -1
              I don’t want to offend you, but it sounds very American-minded - “if someone lives differently, it’s not democratic”, “speak only English, otherwise we don’t understand you, and we don’t have to take into account your requirements and opinions” etc. .
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 17 August 2013 16: 09 New
          +8
          Quote: Botanologist
          I think we are too nervous about the boat accident

          Yes, we need to wind the nerve, it is in operation with the Indians, and there is a demand from them. It’s not a secret to constantly destroy our equipment. Not one country in the world has killed more aircraft than India. With tanks the same garbage. In short, we are on the drum, there will be no consequences.
          1. zennon
            zennon 17 August 2013 21: 28 New
            +6
            .Not one country in the world has killed more planes than India.

            Most likely. No one has such a number of railway disasters with casualties as the Mowgli. Exclusively due to the state of railway tracks and gouging.
            1. Onotollah
              Onotollah 18 August 2013 09: 47 New
              +4
              Quote: zennon
              gouging.

              Honestly, such nonsense and gouging as Indians still need to look.
              On the one hand, in everyday life this may not be bad - not taking various troubles to heart.
              But in the service it is very fraught, and therefore.
              Sailors are humanly sorry.
              Vile jackals have already danced on the bones.
              1. Shadowcat
                Shadowcat 19 August 2013 01: 32 New
                0
                Yes, you do not have to go far - Thailand is from Burma from them. That's where the nihilists are so nihilists. The most common question in politics is "Why?"
            2. Dovmont
              Dovmont 18 August 2013 21: 11 New
              +2
              Yes, gouging is a hallmark of the Aryans! So we are!
  4. shinobi
    shinobi 17 August 2013 13: 18 New
    11
    Unpleasant. Sailors memory.
  5. regdan
    regdan 17 August 2013 13: 19 New
    +7
    On June 22-24, US Secretary of State John Kerry paid an official visit to India. The purpose of the visit was negotiations on the evolution of regional architecture in Asia.

    That's who is behind the boat explosion. It is necessary to check Kerry for involvement in the death of the submarine.
  6. The comment was deleted.
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 17 August 2013 13: 29 New
      +3
      An explosion in an Indian submarine could lead to an emergency in the weapons compartment
      The most likely version of a state of emergency on the Indian submarine Sindurakshak is the improper handling of weapons.

      http://ria.ru/world/20130817/956926386.html
      1. nickname 1 and 2
        nickname 1 and 2 18 August 2013 13: 25 New
        -8
        [quote = Apollon]An explosion in an Indian submarine could lead to an emergency in the weapons compartment
        The most likely version of a state of emergency on the Indian submarine Sindurakshak is the improper handling of weapons.

        Or maybe everything is much simpler: did you learn to drink vodka Russa tourist? Well type - birthday was, everyone was treated!
  7. andrei332809
    andrei332809 17 August 2013 13: 40 New
    10
    question the quality of Russian weapons

    and what does Russia have to do with it? the Indians wanted to supply their components (read, half were made in China), again, the training of the crew ... some of our officers learned, and the rest picked up on the tops, I’ll be silent about the rank and file (after all, their mentality is more gouging than even us). so let them blame themselves
  8. july
    july 17 August 2013 13: 43 New
    14
    Yes, it’s a pity of course, ordinary guys always remain hostages. And about the Indian army ... is it a duck, no, I don’t know, here:
    Originally posted by dphq at Indian Army took Jupiter and Venus for Chinese drones for six months
    According to a recent report, the Indian army over the past six months has controlled two unidentified sites in which the military saw Chinese drones. As it turned out, these two unidentified objects are long recognized large planets. According to The Telegraph, the army began to monitor these objects that the military noticed on the border of India and China back in August 2012, while noting certain patterns of drone behavior.

    One of the objects appeared on the horizon regularly at about 18 pm local time and remained visible until 5 am the next day, and the other remained visible in the time interval between 4 and 11 am local time.

    By February of this year, the military had recorded 329 appearances of these objects, while in 115 cases they “invaded” the territory of India, hi-news.ru reports. Given the possibility of the emergence of unmanned aerial vehicles of Chinese origin in this region, tension and anxiety grew more and more every day. The situation was clarified a bit later by astronomers from the Indian Institute of Astrophysics, who processed information received from the military. Researchers told the military that all this time they were not observing Chinese unmanned aerial vehicles, but Jupiter and Venus.

    (Due to their altitude, both planets seemed to be the brightest objects in the sky, and when they began to increase in size on the east side, the military thought that they were moving across the border.)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-23455128

    http://www.telegraphindia.com/1130724/jsp/frontpage/story_17150854.jsp#.Ue882rKB
    Qyk
  9. alone
    alone 17 August 2013 13: 47 New
    +3
    Are these objects to blame for the numerous accidents in the Indian Air Force, or is this also the work of saboteurs? all this is a consequence of the simple negligence and curvature of staff
  10. d_trader
    d_trader 17 August 2013 14: 15 New
    +7
    They said in a box that the Indians replaced our batteries with locally produced (maybe Chinese) ones.
  11. rudolff
    rudolff 17 August 2013 14: 18 New
    10
    Now many versions will be put forward and no one wants to be guilty of itself. Here "don’t go to your grandmother." The Indians will blame everything on poor-quality repairs and defective Club-S missiles, ours will be to blame for the illiterate crew. It is necessary to wait at least for some results of the work of experts. They did not really believe in the fact that they tried to extinguish the fire for two hours. Given that the boat with ammunition, they should have immediately declared an alarm throughout the base. If for some reason the fire could not be eliminated, the ship had to be taken away from the shore or drowned at the pier.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 17 August 2013 20: 39 New
      +7
      Quote: rudolff
      They did not really believe in the fact that they tried to extinguish the fire for two hours. Given that the boat with ammunition, they should have immediately declared an alarm throughout the base. If, for any reason, the fire cannot be eliminated, the ship had to be diverted from the shore or drowned at the pier.

      All right. After an emergency occurs, the boat activates a yellow flashing alarm. At the base - emergency alarm. Nearby submarines are preparing APs to assist neighbors, and, on orders, are relocated to a safe place. BASP flies to the hull of the emergency submarine.
      It is hard to believe that the sucker could not strangle the fire in the compartment. What was waiting for 2 hours is also not clear. And that it was necessary to heat the compartment with ammunition - this is not even in doubt. Idashki would give an opportunity to hold out for some time, and then how God decides. Mr. Slyusarenko 2 times from the other world returned at the death of Komsomolets.
      1. rudolff
        rudolff 17 August 2013 21: 37 New
        +4
        But his (Mr. Slyusarenko) commander was twice buried at sea. When trying to raise the surface of VSK Komsomolets, the cable broke and she again went to the bottom along with the bodies.
  12. Dyukha Siberian
    Dyukha Siberian 17 August 2013 15: 19 New
    +7
    monkey with a grenade! But where are the experienced crew of submariners? some kind of minor emergency that got out of control! and we will blow off !!! and of course sorry for the dead sailors!
  13. APASUS
    APASUS 17 August 2013 15: 30 New
    +5
    Another boat at the bottom, there is no result of any examination!
    And already there were experts in valves, torpedo tubes and the ubiquitous political predictors!
    Bravo! What has everything been written about, who really cares about the essence of what happened?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Misantrop
      Misantrop 17 August 2013 22: 58 New
      11
      Quote: APASUS
      And already there were experts in valves, torpedo tubes and the ubiquitous political predictors!
      And what, somewhere CATEGORY statements on technology have already sounded? Maybe I missed something? There are not so many equipment on the DPS in the database, which in an accident can lead to SUCH consequences. Or are you surprised that there are people on the site who have had to deal with similar equipment? And to which, by signature, they brought information about all the accidents that occurred on ships and submarines (which most often turned out to be unknown to the general public).
      Well, the "impartiality and credibility" of the official versions (and even in the presentation of absolutely unaware journalists) is notorious. Does she suit more? Well then, I will not interfere, wait for the official statement request
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 18 August 2013 09: 13 New
        0
        Quote: Misantrop
        Well, the "impartiality and credibility" of the official versions (and even in the presentation of absolutely unaware journalists) is notorious. Does she suit more? Well then, I will not interfere, wait for the official statement

        I am confused by the appearance of information in which people use their assumptions.
        There, the hydrogen valve missed!
        Has anyone seen this valve? And where is the passive safety system? Platinum grate stolen?
        And let's go ....................... Technical examinations are carried out in order not to use assumptions.
        Not everyone will tell us, and if we still use speculation ........... we will go far!
        While what imported equipment was installed under a contract with the Indian side is not known.
        Or will you again argue that sitting at the computer can you discover the cause of the explosion ?????
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 18 August 2013 11: 08 New
          +5
          Quote: APASUS
          Bothers me
          It is clear that the less knowledge, the more embarrassment, it is natural
          Quote: APASUS
          There, the hydrogen valve missed!
          Has anyone seen this valve?
          I have seen. And repeatedly. And he looked at the PDM furnace all the years, while he served on the submarine. In the 6th compartment, they hung on the ceiling just in front of the BP-65. Such a small thing, a little more than a liter can. They are available in all compartments where the appearance of hydrogen is possible. In the 6th, we had a K-4 oxygen plant. The device is simple: a housing, a heating element, a catalyst grid, a thermometer, and a table of correspondence of hydrogen concentration to catalyst temperature. One oven is ALWAYS turned on (standby), the rest are connected as needed. Manually without automation, watch. There is nothing to break. So there are only two options: they did not include it, or it was understaffed. And what’s valuable there is only a grid ... on which hydrogen is burned at any its concentration in the atmosphere of the compartment. No mesh - only when an explosive concentration is reached. Dangerous - from 2%, emergency 4%, and when 12% is reached, the energy of a ray of sunlight is enough for an explosion.

          Regarding the fact that when charging in the base, the battery accelerates more, the point is in charge mode. In the sea, only the MGV mode (with low gas release) is used. In the database, when you can use the external ventilation mode without interference, use more efficient charge modes. In addition, there is a so-called "treatment cycle" designed to increase the life and effectiveness of AB. It is rarely carried out at sea, more often in the base. But - not by the watch, but by the electrotechnical division БЧ-5
          Quote: APASUS
          sitting at the computer can you discover the cause of the explosion?
          Not. It is possible to calculate the POSSIBLE reasons (there are not so many of them), so that when specifying information appears, cut off those that were not confirmed. For example - whether work was carried out with batteries and by what forces, the position of the shutoff valves for ventilation of the battery pits, the position of the PDM bags and their completeness. When it is known what exactly to pay attention to, it is easier to search. And delusional versions are cut off immediately, and not after long scandals wink
          1. APASUS
            APASUS 18 August 2013 12: 33 New
            -9
            Quote: Misantrop
            Quote: APASUSThere the hydrogen valve passed there! Has anyone seen this valve? I saw. And repeatedly. And he looked at the PDM furnace all the years while serving on the submarine.

            Did you see the valve from this Indian boat? Did I understand correctly?
            Other valves do not interest me!
            Quote: Misantrop
            Quote: APASUS sitting at the computer, you can open the cause of the explosion? POSSIBLE reasons can be calculated (there are not many of them)

            Do you know the complete set of additional equipment of Western production on this submarine? What additional systems and for what tasks could this particular boat be equipped with?
            Quote: Misantrop
            Quote: APASUSI'm embarrassedIt is clear, the less knowledge, the more
            embarrassment is natural

            No need to be rude!
            For those frames of the video I can say that the explosion on the record is not hydrogen.
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 18 August 2013 13: 12 New
              +6
              Quote: APASUS
              No need to be rude!
              Where did you see rudeness? Or did normal arguments end, is it time to move on to a cry?
              Quote: APASUS
              Did you see the valve from this Indian boat? Did I understand correctly?
              Other valves do not interest me!
              And how does this valve differ from the same valves from other boats? They are STANDARD, if anyone is not in the know
              Quote: APASUS
              For those frames of the video I can say that the explosion on the record is not hydrogen.

              For those shots, it’s not even clear whether this started the accident, or its FINAL ...
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. APASUS
                APASUS 18 August 2013 14: 06 New
                -4
                Quote: Misantrop
                Quote: APASUS Have you seen the valve from this Indian boat? Do I understand correctly? Other valves do not interest me! And how does this valve differ from the same valves from other boats? They are STANDARD, if anyone is not in the know

                Of course standard.
                Only the technical condition of this particular valve you sitting at the computer determined, so to speak remotely?
                Quote: Misantrop
                For those shots, it’s not even clear whether this started the accident, or its FINAL ...

                This is the finale! Take my word for it.

                Quote: Misantrop
                Where did you see rudeness? Or did normal arguments end, is it time to move on to a cry?

                Your rudeness is that you reproach me for the lack of specific knowledge. I am not trying to drive you into plasticizers for extrusion lines.
                Yes, once again, this is your specificity, you still did not answer me:
                Do you know the complete set of additional equipment of Western production on this submarine? What additional systems and for what tasks could this particular boat be equipped with?

                I ask you to answer the last question
                1. Misantrop
                  Misantrop 18 August 2013 17: 11 New
                  +7
                  Quote: APASUS
                  you never answered me:
                  Do you know the complete set of additional equipment of Western production on this submarine? What additional systems and for what tasks could this particular boat be equipped with?
                  I ask you to answer the last question
                  You will not receive an answer to THIS question. Neither from me nor from the Indians. For the simple reason that no one uploads classified information on open access forums if his last name is not Snowden request
                  Quote: APASUS
                  This is the finale! Take my word for it.
                  I fully believe, especially since it was exactly the same thing that seemed to me myself. But in this case, to root cause of the accident this night fireworks has nothing to do, this equipment (or weapon) blazed when fire reached him. And before that, 2 hours with the accident SOMETHING the watch fought. Question: "WHAT?" And what served as the initial reason ?. I don’t want to consider exotics like the “new version of the MK-48 super torpedo with a 2-hour moderator”. Real the reasons are often much more commonplace, but they are not interesting to the bulk of bored consumers of information chewing gum request

                  Further detailing the development of the accident on this submarine will become possible only after finding out WHAT WORKS AND FORCES WHICH L / C AT THIS TIME WENT. And not earlier. Equipment in the stationary storage mode gives an accident extremely seldom. In order for something to catch fire, it is most often required to be "fussed".
                  Well, if you pick up the minuses, then not from me (not my style and not my method)

                  Quote: APASUS
                  Your rudeness is that you reproach me in the absence of specific knowledge
                  Are you the start-up of this DPL, the commander of the warhead-5 or warhead-3? And earlier here laid out a document confirming this? Sorry, did not see. In this case, I apologize hi In any other case, IMHO, it’s rather rudeness to say a spit-out statement: “connoisseurs” appeared here ... “Issue a professional layout here according to valve numbers and minutes from the beginning, then no one will doubt your highest qualification request
            2. Misantrop
              Misantrop 18 August 2013 14: 01 New
              +2
              Quote: APASUS
              Did you see the valve from this Indian boat? Did I understand correctly?
              Other valves do not interest me!
              As I understand it, you are looking forward to the appearance on this forum of CETD with this submarine. Or the foremen of a team of electricians from her. Since NOBODY will be able to RELIABLE and QUALIFIED to answer the question about the state of valves at the time of the accident. Everyone else can only talk about this or that. probabilities.
              If you wait for such witnesses ...
              1. APASUS
                APASUS 18 August 2013 15: 41 New
                0
                Quote: Misantrop
                As I understand it, you are looking forward to the appearance on this forum of CETD with this submarine.

                I was just about looking at our dialogue!
                Grab the cons and the answer will be like:
                "The third valve of the air circulation system of the eighth row of the rear third of the hemisphere did not work. I determine it remotely because I served on a similar boat."
                Thank you for the dialogue.
  14. darksoul
    darksoul 17 August 2013 15: 34 New
    +3
    we don’t know the truth and the result is on the face: the sailors cannot be returned, the country's prestige is damaged, the USA is in the black
  15. Kovrovsky
    Kovrovsky 17 August 2013 15: 35 New
    +1
    Quote: armandos
    It also seems to me that this is a fatal accident, but the United States will certainly take advantage of this. I only hope that India will not interrupt its cooperation with us.

    It is good that the Americans have not built diesel submarines for a long time, they are unlikely to be able to offer in return for the Varshavyanka.
  16. Dimy4
    Dimy4 17 August 2013 15: 37 New
    +4
    Kerry came and brought with him a trial batch of American democratic noodle ears. If Indians are guided by crafty speeches, then you can put an end to the country.
  17. The comment was deleted.
    1. andrei332809
      andrei332809 17 August 2013 15: 59 New
      +3
      Quote: vtytuty
      mbaza.gu.ma

      where on the serious site is this crap?
  18. NickitaDembelnulsa
    NickitaDembelnulsa 17 August 2013 15: 50 New
    +2
    What a master, such a boat.
  19. clean water
    clean water 17 August 2013 15: 55 New
    +2
    The explosion is a tragedy, but because of sloppiness, most likely.
  20. Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 17 August 2013 16: 09 New
    +2
    We must wait for the rise of the boat and the investigation. I hope our shipbuilders take part.
  21. Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 17 August 2013 16: 18 New
    +3
    <<< ... the tragedy occurred right on the eve of Indian Independence Day, which is traditionally associated with a demonstration of military power. This is too “a good” coincidence not to use it against Russian-Indian military cooperation and not to question the quality of Russian weapons. It is no coincidence that Admiral Joshi, Commander in Chief of the Indian Navy, did not rule out the possibility of sabotage. ........ (After all), Project 877 boats are considered one of the most massive and reliable in the world. They were built for many countries (China, Algeria, Iran), are part of the Russian fleet and successfully carry out military service. >>>
    Such coincidences are no coincidence! And if you look, as they say in such cases, and to whom it is beneficial, the answer is obvious! US game-democrats have long thrown such concepts into the basket. as international law, the legal field and acts on the basis of democratization expediency! Therefore, some Iranian leading experts on the nuclear program suddenly die and disappear, or the leading Russian experts in the aerospace field perish in a strange way and rockets fall! As they say, the costs are minimal, and the effect and consequences are IMPRESSIVE!
  22. nekromonger
    nekromonger 17 August 2013 16: 47 New
    +2
    you need to tell Snowden that he untie his tongue and tell something interesting about the states, otherwise the Washington regional committee crap and give him temporary shelter in exchange for silence about the United States.
  23. pogis
    pogis 17 August 2013 16: 47 New
    +3
    In the mattress, there the painter burned a whole apple! So that everything happens! Http: //www.charter97.org/en/news/2013/8/12/73790/
    1. Nu daaaa ...
      Nu daaaa ... 17 August 2013 23: 29 New
      +1
      Everyone has setbacks ...
      http://www.newsru.com/russia/29dec2011/lodka.html
  24. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 17 August 2013 16: 55 New
    +3
    The tragic death of a submarine can have serious consequences and can affect the military-technical cooperation of Russia and India.

    Yes and no...
    After all, this submarine, after modernization, REACHED BY YOURSELF TO INDIA (there, something about 8 thousand km.)! Is this not a confirmation of its reliability?
    But conspiracy theories, geopolitical competition and competition in the arms market, as well as sabotage of Indian enemies and "partners", they all have a place to be.
  25. VadimSt
    VadimSt 17 August 2013 17: 09 New
    +5
    I won’t be surprised! Not a single country in the world has disbanded intelligence, has not abandoned special operations and relevant structures. Moreover, none of the leading world states has stated that intelligence and sabotage activities are carried out exclusively in wartime.
    1. Danash I
      Danash I 17 August 2013 17: 45 New
      +3
      That's exactly what it seems to me. Randomness does not exclude the possibility of gouging some in the world a lot, but the time .... It’s too suitable.
  26. individual
    individual 17 August 2013 17: 18 New
    +5
    They call the explosion on the submarine random.
    An “accident” occurred just in time for breaking off Russia's supplies of Indian weapons, with an increase in staffing in the region.
    The strategic objective of the United States is the destruction of the SCO agreements and the opposition to Russia-China and both countries of India. The tangle of controversy includes the problem of the Korean peninsula and the militarization of Japan, where the United States acts as "conductor of the Pacific Military Orchestra."
    am
  27. Vtel
    Vtel 17 August 2013 17: 27 New
    +1
    A fire broke out around midnight on the boat, which the crew tried to put out in two hours.

    Of course, it’s a pity for the sailors, it’s not clear why they were putting out for so long - there were problems with water, and even at the pier.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 17 August 2013 23: 03 New
      +1
      Quote: Vtel
      it’s not clear why they put out so long
      There is no crew on board at night, only a shift. And she is usually less versed in equipment than full-time specialists (most often this is not their management).
      Yes, and such things do not extinguish with water - there are continuous electrical panels everywhere. Fire extinguishers, IDPs, suckers, foam from shore installations
    2. Peaceful military
      Peaceful military 17 August 2013 23: 25 New
      +2
      it’s not clear why they stewed for so long - with water or something

      Dear Ros!
      I’m the son of a sailor, who himself spent about 10 years in the sea, I declare with all responsibility that ships / vessels burn on the water, as they say "for a sweet soul" ... like, for example, tanks burn (I say this as a land officer )
      Water and iron are far from fire factors ... hi
  28. 12345
    12345 17 August 2013 18: 05 New
    0
    On board the Indian submarine (PL) S63 Sindurakshak, two explosions occurred ...



    "Two shots" - proffi's handwriting ...
  29. Darth Revan
    Darth Revan 17 August 2013 18: 46 New
    +3
    Quote: July
    Indian army took Jupiter and Venus for Chinese drones for six months


    They would also take them for an alien cruiser, preparing to launch an orbital strike on India! fool laughing
    1. alpenstock
      alpenstock 17 August 2013 19: 26 New
      +1
      you are amazing...
  30. alpenstock
    alpenstock 17 August 2013 19: 22 New
    0
    sorry for the guys and the car. condolences. / is it came to her clubs? /
  31. sergej30003
    sergej30003 17 August 2013 19: 24 New
    +1
    most likely this is sabotage! There are no such coincidences, we won’t find out the truth, we can recall our Kursk, the Amerikosy do not want us to cooperate and be friends with India, and this is geopolitics and they will in every way prevent this, including terrorist attacks, by strangers of course.
    1. Santa Fe
      Santa Fe 17 August 2013 19: 47 New
      +4
      Quote: sergej30003
      The Americans do not want us to cooperate and be friends with India, and this is geopolitics and they will in every possible way prevent this, up to terrorist attacks, with the wrong hands of course.

      And what is there to prevent

      The lease of K-152 "Nerpa" was delayed, it is ridiculous to say, at 4 of the year
      while "Nerpa" was marked by an accident with 20 dead

      The transfer of the Vikramaditya aircraft carrier was delayed for 5 years and has not yet been transferred, while the price of the ship increased from 700 million to 2 billion.

      With such a “service” even enemies do not need everyone to refuse to cooperate with the Russian Federation
      1. Su-9
        Su-9 19 August 2013 06: 19 New
        0
        With respect to your opinion, I still have to say that delays are the case. Everyone has various reasons.
        The main thing is how to present everything. For example, public opinion, I think that shaving makes a good marine technique. And offhand, if someone is offered a British ship or a Russian one at the same price, they will choose a British one. So?
        At first, the Britons delayed their supply by an average of 5 years each.
        In this case, the situation around the English submarines of the Upholder class purchased by Canadians is very indicative. I understand that they are in the same class as project 877EKM.
        Canadians have no difficulties with finances (well, or not like in Russia or the Indians), the system is stable, the sailors are all “professionals”, well, the equipment made by the “mistress of the seas” herself.
        So, at first the Britons delayed their supply by an average of 5 years each.
        And then the fun began (copy-paste itself):
        MCS Victoria, SSK 876: in service since 2000. Fire in 2004. The entire electrical system burned out. By 2018, Canadians hope that the submarine will have 4 years of full combat readiness, 6 - partial, and 8 years in the dock. Only 174 days at sea for a career.
        HMCS Windsor, SSK 877: in service since 2003, without major accidents, but requires replacement of a diesel generator. The last 1.5 years at the wall / in the dock. Only 146 days at sea for a career.
        HMCS Corner Brook, SSK 878: in service since 2003. A serious accident at the beginning of a career - the boat collected 1500 liters of water in an underwater position. Recently, another serious accident allegedly hit the bottom. Now - at the wall / in the dock. It will be operational in 2016, a total of 463 days at sea during a career.
        HMCS Chicoutimi, SSK 879: in service since 2004. On October 5, 2004, a boat and a fire occurred on the boat from Scotland to Canada. 1 sailor died, 2 were badly burned. I almost drowned. The boat was rescued and transported to Canada in the dock. Now still at the dock in Escamalt (Canada). It may be renovated by 2016. Not one day at sea during a career.

        The bottom line is that Canadians bought Four submarines from the Britons. None is not combat ready. Everyone had problems. One was saved by a miracle - I think so due to the coordinated work of the crew, and one because of the correct work of the firefighters.
        In principle - a wild scandal.
        And who has heard of this?
        And who is yelling about it?
        That's it.
        Publications are a great thing.
  32. edeligor
    edeligor 17 August 2013 19: 49 New
    +3
    The strange "on time" Proton explosion with satellites, the "on time" accident of an export submarine in India ... what are our special services doing ?! Where is the asymmetric answer?
  33. Nayhas
    Nayhas 17 August 2013 20: 16 New
    +1
    "This situation cannot please the United States." - the author, what kind of crazy attacks? The United States absolutely does not care long before the explosion on the submarine, India became almost the main buyer of weapons Made in USA. There are several reasons for this. India needs a partner 1. Able to sell the most modern weapons; 2. Independent of China, the United States after China kicked them out of Pakistan automatically became that very long-awaited partner of India that meets both parameters.
  34. voliador
    voliador 17 August 2013 20: 43 New
    +1
    Nayhas, this is not lunges. The U.S. really wants to get into the Indian arms and military equipment market, and for this they will do everything in all available ways.
  35. Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 17 August 2013 20: 45 New
    +3
    India in its confrontation between China and Pakistan needs to rely on someone. Recently, it has been swaying towards France, but the quality / cost ratio clearly indicates in favor of combat systems produced in Russia.
  36. annenkov242
    annenkov242 17 August 2013 20: 46 New
    +2
    If a country like ours has a fifth column who stick sticks in the history of our progressive Russia, what can we say about India, who live in the first dimension. Six hands cannot help them, fortunately they have a lot of work with reptilians Russia and China.
    1. Santa Fe
      Santa Fe 17 August 2013 21: 05 New
      +9
      Quote: annenkov242
      If a country like ours has a fifth column that stick sticks into the history of our progressive Russia

      Stepan Remezkov is the son of a deputy of the State Duma of the Russian Federation, Sergei Remezkov, a cadet of the US Military Academy Valley Forge.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 17 August 2013 21: 22 New
        -2
        This is an ordinary private school for children 12-18 years old. Generally having discipline problems.

        US Military Academy ... That's how rumors are born.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 17 August 2013 21: 29 New
          +1
          For a particularly gifted minuser: http://study.yastudent.ru/study/college/VFMAC

          Ban on Google is too cruel.
        2. Santa Fe
          Santa Fe 17 August 2013 21: 44 New
          +9
          Quote: Spade
          This is an ordinary private school for children of 12-18 years.

          Shovels, stop justifying the villains

          Valley Forge Admission Terms

          Basic ECP eligibility and entrance requirements (not all inclusive):

          Minimum cumulative high school GPA of 2.0 on a 4.0 scale (2.5 for scholarship)

          Minimum SAT score of 850 (Math and Verbal sections only), or ACT score of 17 (920 / 19 for scholarship)

          Pass Department of Defense Medical Examination (arranged by Army ROTC)
          Pass Army height / weight and physical fitness standards

          Between 17 and 27 years of age

          US citizen of good moral character (original naturalization document issued by INS or state issued birth certificate)


          http://www.vfmac.edu/college-rotcapplying/?template=about-college-ecp-rotc

          And what did the son of a deputy of the Russian Federation in the USA forget? I understand to go a couple of times as a tourist. But not the same:

          In Russia, Stepan Aleksandrovich Remezkov is very rare. Since 2005, he has been studying at elite private schools in Great Britain: Malvern College, Fettes College, CATS Canterbury College, and in 2009 he moves to the United States, where he enters a very specific institution: Valley Forge Military College

          Children of wealthy American patriots study at the college, about half of which then become US Army officers. Well, after college, Stepan goes to a very expensive private Hofstra University in New York, where he studies while his dad, the deputy head of the State Duma Legislation Committee, submits laws to prohibit the adoption of Russian orphans by American families and on foreign agents
          1. Santa Fe
            Santa Fe 17 August 2013 21: 54 New
            +5
            And here is another miracle:

            Deputy Secretary General of United Russia, Deputy Chairman of the State Duma, deputy of the Russian Federation Sergey Zheleznyak.

            Let's move for a moment to hostile Switzerland. Where do the "expectations of the leadership of other states" come from, so to speak.
            Here, oddly enough, we find the daughter of the patriotic deputy Zheleznyak - Catherine.

            Elite school for elite children, specially designed to prepare for their admission to American colleges and universities.
            True, training is expensive. No wonder, they are preparing the future world elite.

            They cook well: after all, this world elite has yet to fight with Russia. Prevent the revival of our greatness.
            Here are the rates for the 2012-2013 academic year:

            http://www.tasis.ch/uploaded/documents/PDF_Admissions/MS_HS_12_13/MS_HS_Fees_12-
            13.pdf

            http://www.tasis.ch/uploaded/documents/PDF_Admissions/ES_12_13/ES_Fees_12-13.pdf


            As you can see, each year Middle and High School (6-12 class) flies about 70 000 Swiss francs, which is almost 2,4 million rubles, and Elementary School (1-5 class) - 28 520 francs (almost 1 million rubles .). It is easy to calculate that in this case, 21,8 million rubles will be required to educate the child.
            1. nickname 1 and 2
              nickname 1 and 2 18 August 2013 13: 38 New
              0
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              Here, oddly enough, we find the daughter of the patriotic deputy Zheleznyak - Catherine.

              Elite school for elite children,


              What to envy? Unhappy children! They were given, like, to the orphanage (in our opinion), and yes - foreign!

              CHILDREN SHOULD LIVE WITH PARENTS!
          2. Alex 241
            Alex 241 17 August 2013 21: 59 New
            +6
            Remember this character, but this is human rights activist Kovalev. Kovalev is married to Lyudmila Boytsova for the second time. He has three children: a son from his first marriage, Ivan and his daughter - Maria and Barbara. Kovalev’s children live in the United States.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Lopatov
            Lopatov 17 August 2013 22: 03 New
            -5
            I gave you the link. You have 1,3 million rubles a year - send yours.
            By the way, did you translate these scary phrases into English? Just wondering, did you copy-paste them from misunderstanding, or do you think the rest of them are suckers?

            By the way, look, are you a supporter of trafficking in children?
            1. Santa Fe
              Santa Fe 18 August 2013 00: 46 New
              +7
              Quote: Spade
              Just wondering, did you copy-paste them from misunderstanding, or do you think the rest of them are suckers?

              It says that the applicant must physically comply with US Army standards: height / weight / health
              Pass Department of Defense Medical Examination (arranged by Army ROTC)
              Pass Army height / weight and physical fitness standards

              However, a strange school)))
              Quote: Spade
              By the way, look, are you a supporter of trafficking in children?

              If the deputy Remezkov is a fighter for the rights of Russian orphans, who are tortured by American scum

              WHAT THE HELL DOES HE SEND OWN CHILDREN TO LIVE IN THE USA?
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 18 August 2013 00: 57 New
                -5
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                However, a strange school)))

                We have the same, but free. For example, cadet Ministry of Emergencies classes.

                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                If the deputy Remezkov is a fighter for the rights of Russian orphans, who are tortured by American scum

                AND? If you are against ethnic crime in Moscow, then you should not send your child to study in Moscow universities? Did I understand you correctly?

                In the elderberry garden, in Kiev, uncle.
                1. Santa Fe
                  Santa Fe 18 August 2013 01: 06 New
                  +7
                  Quote: Spade
                  We have the same, but free. For example, cadet Ministry of Emergencies classes.

                  Do many children of US senators study in them?
                  In general, many US congressmen have real estate and educate their children in the Russian Federation?
                  Quote: Spade
                  If you are against ethnic crime in Moscow, then you should not send your child to study in Moscow universities? Did I understand you correctly?

                  it would be strange if I sent my son to study at Moscow State University, and told all my friends about how badly to live in Moscow and study at Moscow universities

                  it is strange when a person talks about the horrors of our children being in the USA, and he sent his children there
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 18 August 2013 01: 27 New
                    -4
                    Yes, I do not care who and where to teach their children.
                    And let's not leave the topic. Well, since, is Valley Forge a "US military academy?" (By the way, there are only three of them: West Point, Colorado Springs and Annapolis)
                    And another question: is it possible to lie for the good purpose in your opinion?
                    1. sleepy
                      sleepy 18 August 2013 08: 35 New
                      +5
                      Quote: Spade
                      "Yes, I do not care who and where to teach their children ..."


                      I, too, used to care where and for whom they study.
                      children of senior officials.
                      And now even interesting.

                      Here they wrote somewhere, about the son of Pavel Astakhov,
                      that Astakhov, who "Do not mind experimenting:
                      orphans can be given to families in the North Caucasus "
                      http://www.newsru.com/russia/07jun2013/astahov.html

                      Anton Astakhov: "First I went to Oxford.
                      But at Oxford it’s very difficult for a young man
                      because it’s boring. The economics taught at Oxford
                      still helps me a lot. "
                      http://esj.ru/2010/09/03/anton_astahov_odnogo_advokata_dlja/

                      Now after studying at Oxford, Anton Astakhov -
                      Deputy Executive Director of ANO Modernization
                      under the President of the Russian Federation for modernization
                      economy and innovative development of Russia.

                      Forum "Modernization"
                      http://www.i-russia.ru/all/comission/contacts.html
                      Losers envy.
          4. smile
            smile 17 August 2013 23: 33 New
            -5
            SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Please tell me - do you think that the laws on the sale of our children in the USA, on foreign agents contradict the interests of Russia? ... it's just not very clear from your comment ....
            1. Santa Fe
              Santa Fe 18 August 2013 00: 41 New
              10
              Quote: smile
              Please tell me - do you think that the laws on the sale of our children in the USA, on foreign agents contradict the interests of Russia? ... it's just not very clear from your comment ....

              If a person fights with gays, he should not sleep with men. Right?
              Or are you gay, or the enemy of all this disgrace

              If someone fights with gays, and in his free time he is engaged in sodomy ... it looks, at least, suspicious. Pure duplicity and betrayal of their beliefs.


              If a patriotic man is fighting the United States by banning the adoption of Russian children by American scum and is concerned about finding CIA agents in the Russian Federation. THAT HE SHOULD NOT SEND HIS OWN CHILDREN TO LIVE IN THE USA. DO NOT HAVE AN ACCOUNT AND REAL ESTATE IN THE USA
              Otherwise, all his "laws on the prohibition of adoption" are vile populism, duplicity, and betrayal. If everything is bad there - why did you send your dearest to live there - your children? And what kind of “fighter with America” are you after? This one act completely discredits deputies Remezkov and Zheleznyak as "patriots" and "loyal statesmen"
              1. smile
                smile 18 August 2013 01: 04 New
                0
                SWEET_SIXTEEN
                I absolutely agree in this.
                I also do not like at all that some of our officials and politicians send children abroad, where they inevitably turn into agents of influence. It’s just that in this case, I am more impressed by the position of the origin of all kinds of bad rumors, which was experienced in terms of sources, and even more so. who, how and for what purpose uses such rumors ... :)))) that is why I asked a direct question to clarify your position ..... I hope the question did not seem offensive. :)))
                The answer is comprehensive. In principle, the last paragraph would have been enough for me. Without homosexuals ... :))) But since you have not ignored them. it is worth mentioning that there are cases when the most ardent homophobes and opponents of pederasty propaganda are the most latent enti ... for various psychological reasons ... I believe that these people are useful. despite its compromising nature ... :)))))
                therefore, by analogy, I think that an official or politician who shows zeal in the field of service to the Fatherland is a useful person, regardless of where he sent his children to study (unless of course he is not seen by Niv than any other) .... although, of course, such people make you doubt their sincerity ....
                1. smile
                  smile 18 August 2013 02: 35 New
                  -3
                  smile
                  I correct my mistake - in this comment I share the position of Lopatov.
      2. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 18 August 2013 04: 26 New
        +2
        angry here are bastards ...
      3. ded10041948
        ded10041948 18 August 2013 16: 55 New
        +1
        Where is the sweetness in the voice? After all, can you imagine the future Minister of Defense of Russia!
  37. Enot-poloskun
    Enot-poloskun 17 August 2013 21: 06 New
    +2
    Does India want to become an Anglo-Saxon colony again?
  38. NEXUS
    NEXUS 17 August 2013 21: 19 New
    +6
    India is the largest customer of Russian weapons ... orders often exceed billions of dollars ... a tidbit for competitors and strategic opponents. A boat that has just been modernized and updated suddenly explodes, killing 18 lives ... it all pains like a sabotage. What Russia gets: a wicked haemorrhoids with explanations and excuses, as well as a dampened faith in the quality of Russian weapons ... and what competitors and opponents will get: the opportunity to offer their weapons, influence in this region and the vast arms market as outdated second and relatively new ... in my opinion, all too well, and during the event to apponenta Russia in this story.
  39. Smith
    Smith 17 August 2013 21: 31 New
    +3
    Hindus often neglect elementary operating instructions. They are crazy about us in this regard. First they begin to roll on our manufacturers, and after the proceedings they apologize. It is always like that with the Indians.
  40. shpuntik
    shpuntik 18 August 2013 01: 33 New
    +1
    In 2010, a fire occurred in the battery compartment aboard the Sindurakshak, which killed one Indian sailor.

    Just recently, the submarine underwent modernization at the Zvyozdochka plant (Severodvinsk) and was transferred to the Indian Navy on January 27 this year.

    It doesn’t happen that if there was a fire two years ago + just recently they took the boat after sea trials and after that randomly get fire in the battery compartment.
    Firstly, if there was a fire, then organizational conclusions were made, no matter what the Indians do not care for, nobody wants to lose their epaulettes, especially since this is the fleet’s elite + higher caste.
    Secondly, all the mechanisms and fittings after the overhaul were checked during the tests + it already worked as usual.
    I think one of the "mine." Defective Indian counterintelligence.
    1. shpuntik
      shpuntik 18 August 2013 01: 54 New
      0
      Or the second option, the worst for us: laid "gifts" during the repair, testing. The timer can be set for six months, the clock is now accurate.
  41. The comment was deleted.
  42. 55uaka
    55uaka 18 August 2013 04: 49 New
    -1
    The other day, I accidentally stumbled upon a site for checking fines in the traffic police, and by the way there you can dispute and pay online. For example, for 2 days I challenged 3 fines for a total of about 17 rubles. try it yourself, here is the link to the service - polis.2sms.ru
  43. sashka
    sashka 18 August 2013 06: 22 New
    -3
    Why should you immediately look for the extreme on the side? We built, renovated and taught .. And the Chinese or Americans are to blame .. Strange logic ..
    1. Horn
      Horn 19 August 2013 08: 21 New
      +1
      If you buy a shotgun, you’ll slaughter the barrel and exploded it if your “dear friend”, dissatisfied with the fact that you are not buying lard from him now, has replaced gunpowder with explosives in your cartridge, and the barrel has broken off, is it really the seller’s fault or gun manufacturer?
  44. Averias
    Averias 18 August 2013 09: 03 New
    +2
    Judging by the rumors that have been circulating the media all over the world for a long time (and TopVar also had an article) that the United States is going to reduce the AUG and, in general, a part of the fleet (something for conservation and something to sell). One can draw a definite conclusion - where or to whom will the US sell? China and India come to mind (there is money). And the fact that lately, Russia has begun to actively rise in the ranking of world arms exporters and enter a leading position - says a lot. And many do not like it. The United States, under the guise of "friendly assistance", is pushing its military equipment to Iraq and beyond. So, 2 + 2 is not difficult to add.
  45. pahom54
    pahom54 18 August 2013 09: 31 New
    +2
    I apologize to the dead sailors, but my crews of Indian tanks, planes, ships and other equipment are presented in the same way as the characters in their films: singing, having fun and not thinking about anything. Examples of obscene knowledge and maintenance of equipment were clearly manifested in their time in Egypt and many other countries. It is a pity that the dead crew and the fact that the United States, of course, use this incident for their own purposes. Well, the fact that we will lose the Indian arms sales market is not so scary - but our rulers will not sell new weapons to third countries, now our army and navy also need it, so our defense industry will have orders without India. And they (the Indians) will ruin the American technology as well, only after a while they will understand (maybe) that it is not a matter of technology, but of hands that grow from below from somewhere.
    1. zennon
      zennon 18 August 2013 13: 05 New
      +2
      Well, the fact that we will lose the Indian arms sales market is not so scary - but our rulers will not sell new weapons to third countries

      We won’t lose, be sure. Mowgli well understand the level of training of their military specialists. Yes, they objectively need our weapons. And not only the Navy. And we are afraid to lose it. This is serious money that plays an important role in the research and development of our military-industrial complex. I assure you, I know what am I saying. hi
  46. Diviz
    Diviz 18 August 2013 10: 05 New
    +1
    the crew is sorry. no matter who is to blame. There should be reliable automation and a black box.
  47. Siberian
    Siberian 18 August 2013 12: 19 New
    +1
    Everyone has explosions and other tragedies. And we, and the Americans and others. For all sorts of reasons this can happen. Even elementary, with not competent operation of equipment.
  48. Pensioner
    Pensioner 18 August 2013 13: 43 New
    +2
    Where it is thin, there it breaks. To pay attention and correct. Chaos comes where changes are necessary. From all comment versions, it turns out where it is necessary to "fix". Russian manufacturers not only produce excellent products, but also think through measures for the sale and supply, so that they don’t dare to blame them “on the healthy side.” That is, to protect themselves even from doubts about the “poor quality of the goods.” - in this case, India, pay attention to the education and discipline of "serving" an expensive purchase.
    Otherwise, any of their expenses is useless, and even tragic consequences. Well, for both sides, measures of their own security are important. To prevent all sorts of sabotage. Whether from your own traitors, or external enemies, ill-wishers. Ragging in this matter is fraught not only with human victims , material losses, but also a shame in their own weakness in the eyes of the world community.
  49. Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 18 August 2013 15: 44 New
    +2
    the tragedy occurred right on the eve of Indian Independence Day, which is traditionally associated with a demonstration of military power. This is too “a good” coincidence not to use it against Russian-Indian military cooperation and not to question the quality of Russian weapons. It is no coincidence that Admiral Joshi, Commander in Chief of the Indian Navy, did not rule out the possibility of sabotage. He said that a fire should not have happened, but it is obvious that the boat’s safety systems were not functioning.

    The admiral is probably 100% right; sabotage and sabotage is a typical CIA method.
    Disable the security system of the submarine could a crew member or any specialist with access, traitors are everywhere.
  50. Lecha57
    Lecha57 18 August 2013 15: 54 New
    +2
    To begin with, it would be necessary to invite Russian experts to investigate the disaster.