Military Review

Armata Tank Under Fire ... Critics

52
As predicted by the “Messenger of Mordovia”, as the project for the creation of armored vehicles based on the heavy unified platform “Armata” is implemented, the criticism of it will increase.


Armata Tank Under Fire ... Critics

Looks like the tank of the future, tried to unravel many, this is one of the best drawings on this topic.


This is partly due to the fact that these developments should show in Nizhny Tagil in September of this year only in closed session, for a very limited circle of high-ranking officials. And many have included a kind of "T-95 syndrome". We already wrote about it. Recall that at the very beginning of 90's, sensational information appeared in the media - in Russia, a new generation combat vehicle was finally created with a completely new layout, new engine, suspension, fire control system, a gun, etc.

This message caused a real explosion of patriotism, it was nice to know that at least in some ways, exhausted by endless reforms, Russia is still ahead of the rest. Our competitors in the West and the former Soviet territories tensed, took what is called a pause. Everyone began to wait, when Russia, at last, will show its miracle to the worldweapon. Years passed, and the “German”, that is, the promised T-95, was not there. And just as popular love can quickly be replaced by hatred, so here the disappointment has come to the place of initial admiration, which over time has only become stronger.



One of the candidates for a promising tank - "Object 640" "Black Eagle" during the first show was covered with a camouflage net


Oil was only added to the fire from time to time promises made by responsible persons that "soon" ... "just about" ... "an unparalleled" machine would be put into service. After such statements, many years passed again. And, in the end, all sorts of references to the promising Russian tank began to cause a violent negative reaction. T-95 became the hero of evil satirical drawings, jokes. There was a huge informational failure. Probably not for the whole history modern Russian weapons that would be so discredited. But, as it turns out now, a tank was actually created in Nizhny Tagil, which, by its characteristics, is inaccessible for many years to come.

It so happened that the authority of this combat vehicle, and, probably, of all domestic tank building, was saved by several photos of disgusting quality posted on social networks. Despite the fact that there was little that could be seen, it became clear to everyone that the 195 Object is not a myth, it is not for nothing that money spent and the failure of domestic tank building, as our "friends" from abroad tried to impress us.


During the second show, only a gun was "swaddled in a tarpaulin"


And now many are experiencing the aggravation of the long-standing “informational disease”, and, moreover, the relapse proceeds more dramatically, the potential for disappointment in the story of the 195 Object begins to work. Therefore, in September, a tank should appear in front of taxpayers - even if it is tight, right on the rollers, a “Cape” bagged with the protection kit or something similar. After all, even in North Korea, they are trying to demonstrate to the people their latest developments.

As for the critics of the design of the tank, all conclusions are made on the basis of a pair of images created unknown where and when, several years ago that appeared on the Web. And these estimates are more like speculation and speculation. The attacks against the fact that the "Armata" supposedly abandoned the visual optical observation channels are especially touching. What a nightmare! But in the same aviation conventional optics has long been no longer used in a variety of aircraft and helicopter systems. All this has been tested in a variety of military conflicts.

And imagine, works great. Moreover, the submariners have long abandoned periscopes with conventional optics, replacing them with non-penetrating optocoupler masts. And also everything works great.


After the demonstration of these models, it was long thought that this was the Armata tank.


The same goes for criticism of the crew’s placement in an isolated armored capsule. Say, it is impossible to create normal conditions for the crew there, it is impossible to provide good protection from the sides. But such an arrangement has been explored for more than a decade. Almost from the end of 50, they tried to create a tank with such a capsule in the USSR. However, due to the backwardness of electronics, this did not happen. Because of this, it was not possible to realize the bold intentions of the brilliant Soviet designer Alexander Alexandrovich Morozov, who in the 450 Facility in 70-s had placed the crew of the tank in the same way.

Former Russian Defense Minister Marshal Igor Sergeyev was just fascinated by the convenience of working conditions for tank crews when, at the beginning of 2000, he was first shown the "195 Object", on which, like at Armat, a capsule was mounted. This contrasted very sharply with what was on modern domestic machines. If we talk about protection, in terms of the development of armor steel, fillers, dynamic and active protection, domestic developments are at the most advanced level. All this will be used in the "Armata".
Originator:
http://www.vestnik-rm.ru/news-4-5219.htm
52 comments
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  1. nikolas 83
    nikolas 83 9 July 2013 07: 26
    14
    Our designers know how to make good tanks soldier I think the "Armata" will be an excellent machine. Would show the body of the tank, as it looks at least. what
    1. tronin.maxim
      tronin.maxim 9 July 2013 08: 19
      +3
      The display of the tank will be closed for dignitaries.
      1. Yegorchik
        Yegorchik 9 July 2013 08: 27
        +2
        What kind of demagogy The mechanic wrote in Russian, the work was suspended due to lack of funding.
        1. Joker
          Joker 9 July 2013 09: 47
          +2
          The mechanic wrote the Russian language, work was suspended due to lack of funding.

          Here, for some reason, everyone forgot about it. Years later ... we can see a prototype.
          1. Albert1988
            Albert1988 9 July 2013 11: 27
            +2
            In a previous article, a mechanic, I remember wrote that due to the restructuring of the shops and not because of funding, they will resume again by the end of the summer
      2. Kars
        Kars 9 July 2013 13: 55
        +1
        Quote: tronin.maxim
        The display of the tank will be closed for dignitaries.

        Why announce such a show? And time it to the exhibition. If there is secrecy, then it does not make sense all the advertising.
      3. igor67
        igor67 9 July 2013 14: 08
        +4
        I had a question, I follow publications about Armata, almost everyone writes a tank, a tank, but as far as I understand, it is only a platform that they want to make standard for a tank (and not the fact that it will be called Armata) and under heavy armored personnel carrier and under self-propelled guns
        1. mogus
          mogus 9 July 2013 17: 22
          0
          hi
          with a new development they change the brand - increase the index in numbers. T-90 is busy, T-95 too. Remains T-1/100 ...
      4. bereg
        bereg 9 July 2013 14: 54
        +1
        in it closed and after a year in partially open. the layout looks very good. let's wait
      5. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 9 July 2013 17: 28
        +3
        "The show of the tank will be closed for dignitaries." - Pancake! It’s not worth it to show them! They will sell it!
    2. Hammer
      Hammer 9 July 2013 08: 51
      0
      Well, as they say - The words of the author of the article. yes to God’s ears!
      let's not rush to conclusions. We’ll wait for the official release, as I understand it, it will not be very long to wait ... Something will probably appear next year.
    3. Airman
      Airman 9 July 2013 10: 44
      0
      Quote: nikolas 83
      Our designers know how to make good tanks soldier I think the "Armata" will be an excellent machine. Would show the body of the tank, as it looks at least. what


      Armata is a crane in the sky, and it’s better for our tankers to have a titmouse in parts.
      1. maxvet
        maxvet 9 July 2013 10: 49
        +2
        titmouse is probably T90MS "Tagil"?
      2. aksakal
        aksakal 9 July 2013 19: 19
        +1
        Quote: Povshnik
        Armata is a crane in the sky, and it’s better for our tankers to have a titmouse in parts.
        - experience shows that when a tit and a crane in their hands are better than just a crane or just a tit. I think, while holding the tit, you need to carefully monitor the crane - maybe it will sit nearby. With a certain dexterity - everything is great!
    4. Interface
      Interface 9 July 2013 14: 23
      0
      Exactly.
      But the critics more and more, the closer the fall. Well, as always. As always suspicious.
  2. waisson
    waisson 9 July 2013 07: 27
    +2
    FROM ARTICLE TO ARTICLE ONE TALKS SO WHERE ARE YOU A PREVIOUS BEAST WHEN YOU GO TO THE TROOPS
    1. Airman
      Airman 9 July 2013 11: 46
      0
      Quote: waisson
      FROM ARTICLE TO ARTICLE ONE TALKS SO WHERE ARE YOU A PREVIOUS BEAST WHEN YOU GO TO THE TROOPS


      He is not there yet, and you are already in the army. First, factory tests, then state ones, then preparation for the series, etc. So wait a long time.
  3. Ivan79
    Ivan79 9 July 2013 07: 38
    +4
    I think that the new tank will be a real breakthrough in the field of world tank building. Moreover, no one still has a "crew in a capsule" layout. I think that not only me alone is not
    eager to see him.
    1. igor.borov775
      igor.borov775 9 July 2013 10: 30
      +4
      Hi, Why did you blow the air? This arrangement was discussed back in 80, Then the problem was much more serious, By the way, even then the first persons of the state traveled in a capsule I don’t remember the name it seems Scorpio, And nothing, But it was a little different, Here it was necessary to create a system working in extreme and transcendental conditions, This dream of all designers to create such conditions for the crews of military vehicles and no matter what purpose is air or ground, Such a prototype was created, When Mr. furniture maker there was a real bacchanalia that you don’t need to buy a Leopard cheaper and easier or forgot it required intervention Putin to stop this howl, The strangest thing in this story is that the smokers or otherwise grave diggers were not just ordinary people but people related to the Army who had epaulets and not ordinary generals, You couldn’t hear only the tankers themselves, the Airborne Forces fought and defended, Strange history to forget and throw away but it doesn’t come out because such generals haven’t gone anywhere just quieted down, And the new tank will be in spite of everything, And the fact that it will be a unique car all the whistle says about it, A small particle lives in me that warms the heart that we all the people will get out of this swamp that our not so beautifully lowered us leaders of other people’s grief, Listening to Prime Minister Medvedev, it pierces me and is even convinced that he cares more about the remaining state property and that everything else is so lucky, Why look at it, what law on RAO they muddied themselves in the State Duma pushed and now they unanimously reject authorship and get the original version a draw and how he got into the Duma, the only thing that worries too many liberals in the government is where surprises can always be expected, but there is HOPE that everything will be fine and we will have this beautiful technique and it’s right that many people don’t see it now, I remember not so distant the past, the American Secretary of Defense in our submarine on a field trip, six months later, our Secretary of Defense in the American an aircraft carrier on an excursion, but it’s interesting that they didn’t let the decks go further, We caught the difference
      1. dominion
        dominion 9 July 2013 10: 39
        0
        So many letters, it's hard to read.
    2. igor.borov775
      igor.borov775 9 July 2013 11: 12
      0
      I wrote about Minister SERGEEV, he showed and showed him, Sorry with respect
  4. Edward72
    Edward72 9 July 2013 07: 40
    13
    As my dad says, either quickly or efficiently, it’s better half a year - a year later, but what would the opponents do for themselves when they saw how it was in La Bourget this year from a cracker.
    1. Dmitry 2246
      Dmitry 2246 9 July 2013 10: 39
      +1
      You have a wise father!
      The same case when you need to finish on time!
      Not before. And then there will remain a feeling of dissatisfaction.
  5. Canep
    Canep 9 July 2013 08: 24
    +4
    Something seems to me that Armata is overseen by Rusnano. There are many words, but there is nothing to see.
    1. UzRus
      UzRus 9 July 2013 11: 01
      0
      Yeah, personally Red ...
    2. igor.borov775
      igor.borov775 9 July 2013 11: 07
      0
      There’s nothing to watch; see Rusnano’s products, Mr. Chubais will show you and whether they forgot how a wizard would take out an iPhone or a light bulb or better yet a super alphabet for children, by the way a computer paid by the way for him, If he wants to show anything, His deputy Gozman is an ardent exposer of everything what they achieved in the USSR and even raised their voice against veterans, calling not all the truth the SS men proudly declared that 20 enterprises were already working with might and main, read the report of the Accounts Chamber and they worked according to the rules adopted by the NANO itself, it would be interesting, Oh 10 enterprises say, and where the rest say now, And Rogozin oversees this system and for now manages without any puffy managers, but don’t forget that over the past 20 years such figures have bred even there, many times the SCRF helps to restore order there, it hurts a tidbit and laws passed they are favored, It is ridiculous to compare them with the same ones in that near west, since many there pay real estate taxes m for many Wow, And your displeasure is not addressed, Regards,
    3. dustycat
      dustycat 9 July 2013 12: 26
      0
      And then all the jaws hit the floor, breaking through it the tables from the price.
  6. Smersh
    Smersh 9 July 2013 08: 31
    0
    let's see how these critics speak when when this tank and its power will see everything
    1. Igarr
      Igarr 9 July 2013 13: 44
      -1
      Damn, precious you are our Smersh!
      Do not frighten even so - "..when this tank and his power .. "
      ..
      Tank then ... not yet. And you already about .. power ..
      1. Kars
        Kars 9 July 2013 13: 57
        +1
        So they are already in the bins. Maybe one of them will be repainted and shown at a private show.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 9 July 2013 13: 59
          +2
          This is Ukrainian
        2. black_eagle
          black_eagle 9 July 2013 16: 12
          0
          This is from what kin?))))))))))
        3. fzr1000
          fzr1000 9 July 2013 16: 22
          0
          Isn't that from Inhabited Island?
        4. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 9 July 2013 16: 45
          +3
          Quote: Kars
          Maybe one of them will be repainted and shown at a private show.

          Where is the droushka?
          hi
      2. Igarr
        Igarr 9 July 2013 18: 48
        0
        I actually meant the following:
        POWER .. - according to the rules of the Russian language - the singular number of the word ".. POWER .."
        .
        But POWER - is related to combat qualities.
      3. Black
        Black 9 July 2013 19: 55
        0
        Quote: Igarr
        Damn, precious you are our Smersh!
        Do not frighten even so - "..when this tank and his power .. "
        ..
        Tank then ... not yet. And you already about .. power ..



        The comrade apparently wanted to say "maybe", but it turned out to be power without softening.
  7. lewerlin53rus
    lewerlin53rus 9 July 2013 08: 31
    0
    Or maybe they, the critics, should also publish all the design documentation for the "Armata" in the public domain? And what takes a long time is not a meat grinder. The weather is a year longer, it's okay. The main thing is that the result would be normal.
  8. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 9 July 2013 08: 48
    +8
    Conversation about nothing. No one even saw the layout of Almaty, no one knows its performance characteristics, everything is based only on rumors. But then why all the talk. Maybe you should still wait until the tank comes out of the shadows.
  9. sokrat-71
    sokrat-71 9 July 2013 08: 54
    0
    I agree, you need to wait for the appearance of the tank, and then evaluate it.
  10. yanus
    yanus 9 July 2013 08: 57
    +2
    The question is not whether or not we can create a modern tank. The question is, what is the cost of the tank our Defense Ministry is ready to buy. Therefore, most likely they will make a massive "simplified" tank, something like a modern advanced T72
  11. serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 9 July 2013 09: 16
    +2
    I personally read the first open materials about crew capsules, video and other stunning prospects for domestic tank building, and I don’t remember in which year 70 ... Where is the tank? Looks like our designers were carried away by all sorts of lepapoders and other abrams ...
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 9 July 2013 12: 36
      0
      It was not the designer who was carried away, but the generals wanted it to not be as it turned out on Kursk. So that the abrams rolls out, it rolls out like it's all so cool from itself, but then ours jumps out like that! And they drag the abrams into scrap.

      I really heard this in a conversation between two generals in 1989 on their hunt for hares in the Bikee region.
      And you say the designer got carried away ...

      The main thesis when refusing to adopt promising equipment since the 1960s is one - "the most likely ally is not working in this direction!"
  12. bootlegger
    bootlegger 9 July 2013 09: 55
    +4
    From the experience of World War 2, we know that mass makes up for quality perfectly.
    T 34 on armor and weapons inferior to the Tiger, but the simplicity of production was many times superior.
    For each Tiger, we answered with several T34.
    You can probably make a super perfect tank, but it will be monstrously expensive and produced in insufficient quantities.
    Therefore, the problem is the same as before. To create a perfect tank, but available for production in large quantities. Such as was the T34 or T72. And to make a wunderwaffle, which will be 100 for the whole army, and then show them at parades, it makes no sense.
    1. I think so
      I think so 10 July 2013 00: 02
      +1
      The cost of production is BACK TO PROPORTION of mass production ... Any even very complex machine in MASS production can be CHEAP ... Your comment is somewhat not true ... The T-34 tank was cheap not because it was PERFECT, but because it was produced MASSIVE ...
      1. bootlegger
        bootlegger 10 July 2013 07: 50
        +1
        Where did I write that the T34 was substandard? It was technologically simple and therefore cheap to manufacture. Although at the beginning there were many damp places.
        Quote: bootlegger
        Any even very complex machine in MASS production can be made CHEAP ...

        Then you forgot to clarify what we are talking about relative cheapness.
        For cheap batch production, technology must be well mastered. Ultra modern technology cannot be such, by definition.
        The United States did not manage to make cheap F35. And its military capabilities do not correspond to the expended efforts. And this is one of the reasons for stopping its production.
        By your own logic, it had to be increased ....
  13. slavik_gross
    slavik_gross 9 July 2013 09: 57
    0
    Let's wait for our MOM ...
  14. Algor73
    Algor73 9 July 2013 10: 36
    0
    One thing is clear - they are doing Armata. But what will come of this is unknown. The new generation, be it planes, missiles, etc., is faced with huge problems, remember the T-64, after how many years it came to mind, it was already serialized with the Allied financial investments. And if the Russian designers succeed in really creating something similar, the fashion will be ordered 50 years in advance.
  15. Sobol
    Sobol 9 July 2013 11: 05
    0
    Long do! Long! A tank is needed now!
    1. Igarr
      Igarr 9 July 2013 13: 49
      0
      Duc, damn it, Sobol ..
      we needed the "Death Star" back in 1914, otherwise, as it were, not in 1237 ...
      1. Volkhov
        Volkhov 9 July 2013 22: 00
        +1
        We broke it in 774, that's why all the problems.
  16. Albert1988
    Albert1988 9 July 2013 11: 29
    0
    Clear business, what is needed (although a new BMP is, in principle, more necessary) - but it is better to let it take a little longer than to release a crude imperfection.
  17. Urcom
    Urcom 9 July 2013 11: 34
    0
    I hope all problems with individual nodes are resolved and the nodes are run-in, as Sukhoi did with PAX.
  18. Zubr
    Zubr 9 July 2013 11: 56
    +2
    Quote: nikolas 83
    Our designers know how to make good tanks soldier I think the "Armata" will be an excellent machine. Would show the body of the tank, as it looks at least. what


    I recalled the old Soviet joke:

    The general arrived in the tank corps with a check, drove the equipment out of the boxes, the personnel according to the combat crew, everything was as it should be. Passes along and approaches the lieutenant with a crew but without a tank, the lieutenant reports:
    "Comrade Major General Commander of the Tank Corps Lieutenant PUPKIN!"
    The possessing general, why are you a lieutenant, it's me. corps!
    Answer: "Well, no, I am because the engine was removed from the tank for repairs, there is only one hull left." lol
  19. Gardamir
    Gardamir 9 July 2013 12: 04
    0
    On the performance characteristics (TTX), let experts judge. It is already good that the industry is not all collapsed and scientists. they are doing something (though they are going to destroy the academy). But to me as a person for whom the native Russian language is not clear, what does the name of the tank mean?
    1. valokordin
      valokordin 9 July 2013 16: 41
      +1
      Quote: Gardamir
      But to me as a person for whom the native Russian language is not clear, what does the name of the tank mean?

      Armata is the encrypted name of the platform for Armenia (translated Armyata)
  20. Evgeniy-111
    Evgeniy-111 9 July 2013 12: 55
    +3
    Somehow earlier modern military equipment was developed and tested without daily reports in newspapers. They found out about her only at parades or by participation in some "hot spot". And no one was particularly surprised. Has the military secret been canceled?
    1. Russ69
      Russ69 9 July 2013 15: 12
      +1
      Quote: Evgeniy-111
      Somehow earlier modern military equipment was developed and tested without daily reports in newspapers. They found out about her only at parades or by participation in some "hot spot". And no one was particularly surprised. Has the military secret been canceled?

      Nobody canceled it. Or someone knows the performance characteristics of "Armata". some common phrases.
      In general, I do not understand how you can criticize something that does not exist yet. All criticism is based on their own speculation. In principle, the main critics do not criticize "Armata", but their fantasies.
    2. Hauser
      Hauser 9 July 2013 17: 17
      0
      I learned about the existence of the T-72 only in the year 80 from the Zapodnogermany magazine, moreover, with the scheme and performance characteristics.
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 9 July 2013 19: 01
        +2
        Quote: HAUSER
        I learned about the existence of the T-72 only in the year 80 from the Zapodnogermany magazine, moreover, with the scheme and performance characteristics.

        And before this nights did not sleep? Tormented by the unknown?
        In the 80s, only the lazy did not know about the existence of the 64s and 72s, but they were silent about the 80s.
  21. valokordin
    valokordin 9 July 2013 16: 38
    +1
    Everything will be, everything will be in 15, 20, 30, this is like the material and technical base of communism in 1980. All this in the distant future, and maybe never.
  22. Zubr
    Zubr 9 July 2013 19: 21
    +2
    Comrade officers, remember the program "VISITING THE USKAZKI" (I SERVE THE SOVIET UNION) ..? wink so now they started talking about it openly and with a slight liberal bias, they don’t speak. And it is right. The boys will come to the service, they will find out. And our job is to prepare for the army and raise a fighter and not just a fan, but a real warrior, one against 3's in a real battle. Maybe I'm exaggerating, but we at one time at the headquarters of the division did not climb out of the training grounds.
  23. Sars
    Sars 10 July 2013 07: 33
    0
    Armata is primarily a financial project (people need to earn money).
    What would Serdyukov think about Russia's defense capability !?
    1. Cynic
      Cynic 10 July 2013 11: 11
      0
      Quote: SarS
      Armata is primarily a financial project (people need to earn money).

      In essence, any financial project, only when the customer is a state, and even a military project !!!
      Altruists are not found in production, they simply do not survive!
      It all comes down to one _ Armata, what is she?
      But for me personally now there is no urgent need for a new car, when the old ones can be lifted and lifted well !!!
      drinks
  24. Armata
    Armata 13 August 2013 16: 22
    -1
    Quote: Cynic
    Quote: SarS
    Armata is primarily a financial project (people need to earn money).

    In essence, any financial project, only when the customer is a state, and even a military project !!!
    Altruists are not found in production, they simply do not survive!
    It all comes down to one _ Armata, what is she?
    For me personally, now I don’t see an urgent need for a new car when old ones can be lifted and well lifted !!!
    drinks


    But it has already been said more than once - the modification of the remaining T-72 and T-90 is very expensive, their potential is undoubtedly still great, but not infinite. Now is the time to lead the development of a new MBT.
    1. Cynic
      Cynic 13 August 2013 18: 05
      +1
      Quote: Armata
      But it has already been said more than once - the modification of the remaining T-72 and T-90 is very expensive

      Do you even believe that upgrading the T-72 and T-80 is more costly than developing and manufacturing a new machine from scratch?
      Quote: Armata
      Now is the time to lead the development of a new MBT.

      And who is arguing ?!
      By the way, there has already been a new MBT more than once, and here the conversation is not so much about development, but about the adoption of a new platform.
      drinks