French air force in Mali used a new high-precision weapon with a laser guidance system

French Air Force applied new precision in Mali weapon - aviation 250 kg bombs equipped with the AASM (Armement Air-Sol Modulaire, Air-to-Ground Modular Weapon) Hammer SBU-64 with a laser homing head (GOS). The bombing was carried out from the Rafal fighter, which, in addition to the bombing, had an on-board laser target designator on the underwing pylon. The accuracy of the new weapons was about one meter. This was reported to the ARMS-TASS correspondent on the eve of the opening of the 50th Paris International Aviation and Space Salon by the official representative of the Sazhem development company (Safran group) Philippe Vodka-Galen.

According to him, at the salon, the Sazhem company will present in its exposition the entire family of Hummer weapons: guided bombs with an inertial navigation system, corrected by signals from the global satellite navigation system (INS with GNSS); guided bombs with INS, GNSS and infrared GOS; guided aerial bombs with ANNs, GSNS and laser hsn. All three versions of this family of precision weapons are adopted by the French Air Force and can be used with the Rafale and Mirage-2000 fighters.

The French Air Force tried to test the new weapons of the Soot company in various tactical scenarios not only at the test sites, but also in combat conditions.

The first two versions of the aerial bombs were used in Afghanistan and Libya, and the third in Mali. In particular, in 2011 in Libya, during the operation "Harmatan", the French air force used over 1600 aviation weapons, including aerial bombs and guided missiles. Among them was the 225 AASM bombs dropped from the Rafale aircraft.

At the salon in Le Bourget, all three versions of high-precision weapons will be demonstrated not only at the Sazhem stand, but also at the exposition of the Rafale fighter developer — Dassault Aviation Company, as well as in the French Defense Ministry pavilion next to the multi-role fighter Rafale.

Comments

[Edward72]

After this, the heidemocrats will reproach us with arms supplies to Syria and Iran, so let them go for a walk.

[Denis]

Quote: Edward72

After this, the heidemocrats will reproach us with arms supplies to Syria and Iran, so let them go for a walk.

They will, and we will continue to listen to all this and sit back?

[zvereok]

What do you propose to do?

[Denis]

Quote: zvereok

What do you propose to do?

To act in the interests of Russia, as it is beneficial for Russia to act without looking back to the West .. It is to act and not to speak, to defend strategically advantageous regions for us, just as the same paddlers and mattresses do it ..

[Recon]

You must understand that not everything is as obvious and simple as it seems.

[Geisenberg]

Quote: Recon

You must understand that not everything is as obvious and simple as it seems.

What you just said is boltology aimed at mystifying elementary processes. In fact, everything is simple and difficult to complicate, otherwise democracy will come, complete.

Even if some processes are not obvious, there is always an environment of these processes that reacts unambiguously.

Regarding the issue under discussion: At the current moment, yes, it is necessary to supply weapons to the allies, despite all the antics of the opposing side.

[Recon]

Quote: Geisenberg

What you just said is boltology aimed at mystifying elementary processes.

that is, in your opinion, is geopolitics an elementary process? Thank you, laughed heartily.

Always there are some things, events, circumstances that are not obvious to the average person, that you simply shouldn’t be supposed to know about, either me or anyone else. There is always political bargaining, behind-the-scenes negotiations, spy games, etc., etc.
In the modern world, so far there is only one player who can give a damn about the UN and the centers of power - the United States. This is a political reality, dear, and it is foolish to think that we can easily take and solve by force these, as you put it, "elementary processes". Everything was just in the old days, and they are long gone.

[Atrix]

Quote: Denis

Quote: zvereok

What do you propose to do?

To act in the interests of Russia, as it is beneficial for Russia to act without looking back to the West .. It is to act and not to speak, to defend strategically advantageous regions for us, just as the same paddlers and mattresses do it ..

And where are the interests of Russia? Its global interests lie precisely in the West, probably 70-80% of Russia's markets lie in the west. Syria for Russia is just a bargaining chip, Russia wants to show the world that without its participation such issues cannot be resolved.

[zvereok]

Quote: Denis

To act in the interests of Russia, as it is beneficial for Russia to act without looking back to the West .. It is to act and not to speak, to defend strategically advantageous regions for us, just as the same paddlers and mattresses do it ..

We are already supplying weapons to Syria. With Syria, we have no allied obligations, so only business and nothing personal. The situation in Syria seems to have normalized. In addition, Iran has such obligations, so let the Iranians put their heads there. If Syria offers us something that could justify a military presence and an Alliance treaty, then one might think. Well, the second point - if the situation worsens again.

Just like that, to give out guarantees to the right and left without getting anything in return, so the allies will cease to respect.

[chunga-changa]

Russia is now not strong enough to act without looking to the west, let alone "defend the regions." They can also "compel to peace", including by non-military methods.

[Sasha]

Russia is not strong enough to act without looking west

He who is smarter, more cool, is stronger. The position of Russia is intelligible.

They can also "compel to the world"

With this attitude, you are not a fighter.

including non-military methods.

?

[JonnyT]

act in the interests of Russia ?????
Good slogan! Only the current authorities do not give a damn about him, just like you and me!
thieves traders act only in the interests of money and benefits for themselves and their clan !!!

[Artmark]

Greetings! Russia should give everyone a tough and adequate answer in all questions! Respect only the strong and with the rest how it goes ..

[Ustian]

Quote: zvereok

What do you propose to do?

Urgent-Russian Foreign Ministry recommends that Russian citizens not enter the territory of the North American United Republics due to the high probability of tectonic activity in the near future ...

[zvereok]

Well Western flies can't be wrong. Democracy in Bahrain, but a dictator in Syria ... You can die of laughter.

[experienced]

Quote: Edward72

After this, the heidemocrats will reproach us with arms supplies to Syria and Iran, so let them go for a walk.

Quote: Denis

They will, and we will continue to listen to all this and sit back?

Quote: zvereok

What do you propose to do?

Quote: zvereok

Well Western flies can't be wrong. Democracy in Bahrain, but a dictator in Syria ... You can die of laughter.

I didn’t copy-paste the other comments of karmasos full of intelligence and content, of course, you need to remember gays, where would you be without them? It seems that the gay problem in Europe is the biggest problem of the Russian Armed Forces and the Navy, and not the rearmament of the Russian army, personnel problems in the military-industrial complex and so on.
By the way, I remembered how the VAF wrote about the problems with bombing in Georgia 080808. We make high-quality aircraft, but the aiming system and the bombs themselves leave much to be desired ... And we will continue to turn the site into a kind of yellow magazine "Blue Oyster"

[kris]

Quote: seasoned

I didn’t copy-paste the other comments of karmasos full of intelligence and content, of course, you need to remember gays, where would you be without them? It seems that the gay problem in Europe is the biggest problem of the Russian Armed Forces and the Navy, and not the rearmament of the Russian army, personnel problems in the military-industrial complex and so on.
By the way, I remembered how the VAF wrote about the problems with bombing in Georgia 080808. We make high-quality aircraft, but the aiming system and the bombs themselves leave much to be desired ... And we will continue to turn the site into a kind of yellow magazine "Blue Oyster"

Here I am the same. But this insanity flourishes among the "observers" of the forum Chuvakin and Volodin. Constantly in the reviews of the rooster theme.
I think this is a special distraction from existing problems and an attempt by the authorities to shift their mistakes to others (pin dos, rear-wheel drive, etc.)

[experienced]

Quote: kris

Here I am the same. But this insanity flourishes among the "observers" of the forum Chuvakin and Volodin

In Geopolitics, this looks normal, but when this "rubbish" is already oozing into news and technical articles, in my opinion, this is a strong overkill. Previously, there were many specialists in aviation and in tanks, now in aviation there is only one VAF left and all and sundry are "pecking" tirelessly, in KARS tanks they are "fighting", most of those who used to be able to reasonably and competently talk about technology go into the shadows - they just read Old and do not participate in discussions (I know several of them myself) ... I reread all the comments (about gays, migration, sailors and the fact that there are no goals in Mali) ... NOT A SINGLE COMMENT ON THE TOPIC NEWS !! !!

[queen]

Quote: seasoned

Previously, there were many specialists in aviation and in tanks, now in aviation there is only one VAF left and that "peck" tirelessly by all and sundry, in tanks KARS "fights"

Quote: seasoned

only read info and do not participate in discussions

Huge +. Because before the site was informative, and knowledgeable people were respected. Now all the "generals" and mostly one swearing. So good luck to all of us)

[zvereok]

Quote: regin

Quote: seasoned
only read info and do not participate in discussions

Huge +. Because before the site was informative, and knowledgeable people were respected. Now all the "generals" and mostly one swearing. So good luck to all of us)

Oh, how right you are. I myself often think so about the Internet.

There was a time when Internet users were a community of professionals. And then in a flash, something changed and they turned into children and traders, with the same zeal pumping porn.

[djon77]

I agree Kars and Waf interestingly express the idea because they know what they are talking about.

[iwind]

+1
When I first opened this site somewhere 1,5-2 years ago, it was very interesting to read about modern technology (my weakness), the reasoning of knowledgeable people, their dispute until the "last drops of blood" .
Sometimes I go to the article "How are Kamikaze and P-700" Granite "similar?" the controversy was interesting. I will also note the theme "Sounds of Other Worlds"
And then read in each of those about gays, the "rotting west", etc., as if it has something to do with a new plane, tank, rocket.
ps and unfortunately really knowledgeable people less and less on the site. So I hope the VAF, Kras, Profesor and others will not abandon the site.

[djon77]

this is not a distraction. this is a reminder that there are such people among us. God forbid we forget about them. as they say someone hurts. in all forums, no matter which country the cock topic belongs to, it’s kind of gentle pressure on others. there are a lot of us. already almost all of Europe consists exclusively of gays. a comment should be made. but if possible, don’t remember at all that such exist. let them know that there are very few of them and they are not part of this society

[queen]

Quote: djon77

let them know that there are very few of them and they are not part of this society

So they were offered on August 2)))))) probably they do not understand humor

[Boa kaa]

Quote: seasoned

And we will continue to turn the site into a kind of yellow magazine "Blue Oyster"

Alexey! I fully agree with you. When a person essentially has nothing to say about the topic, he climbs into "gay pride parades".
In general, this topic is considered below the level of attention of a civilized public, IT IS A PRIORI UNDERLESS! It is necessary to send fans of "strawberries" to a site close to them in spirit. IMHO.

[VAF]

Quote: seasoned

We make quality planes,

Lesha, the news, just on your koment, and France all the same .... they won’t give you a flood for the head, I hope! +

Bogdan on the Su-35S flew today in flight! The people poured so much that .... everyone is delighted!

[experienced]

Quote: vaf

Bogdan on the Su-35S flew today! The people poured so much that .... everyone is delighted!

Seryoz, I didn’t doubt a bit that they would send the most worthy to show the goods face! They want to trade it too much and make a big bet on export.
Well, in the meantime, the plane of former US President Bush Jr. made an emergency landing due to smoke in the cockpit. Is he not old McCain in personal pilots?

[VAF]

Quote: seasoned

that they will send the most worthy,

Lyosha, so in LII and GLITS ... there are no unworthy ones! By LII we mean all test pilots of all design bureaus, research institutes and ministries!

To want is not harmful ... it is harmful not to want, as they say, the truth is for me, like for many of my comrades, a mystery why the Knights and Swifts did not fly, although they were preparing, why the Mi-35 (Mi-29M2) did not fly, although the answers are at the level There are "internal colloidal conversations", but ... let's not "annoy" venture candidates ... or else again ... "get upset"!
let them wait for news on the internet!

I read about the younger one, but did you hear the news 3 days ago Super-duper accidentally sat in Odessa on one engine?

By the way, here it is ... in the forefront of the exhibition ... even in the Mexican color

[experienced]

Quote: vaf

and did you hear the news 3 days ago Super-duper accidentally sat in Odessa on one engine?

It scares me more that the Cabinet of Ministers of Russia in January 2013 provided a state guarantee on a loan of $ 1 billion to finance work on Super. Some kind of bottomless barrel, not a project.
I understand that it is "new", but there are some jambs in it, and there are not so many Russian components. Solyanka from different countries and concerns did not work out

[VAF]

Quote: seasoned

It scares me more that the Cabinet of Ministers of Russia in January 2013 provided a state guarantee on a loan of $ 1 billion to finance work on Super.

But in another way .. t.k. this project was initially only unprofitable!

Whatever lovers of the right course would say here, but ... 85% of the components of the airplane ... are foreign, even the engine is the one ... joint!

Do I have to pay? It is necessary, and even profit margin! To sell it somewhere to foreigners, they first drive it to Venice .. they completely "embroider" it, put on a new Italian salon from the Italian design bureau Pininfarina, and then paint it there!

And here’s what’s interesting .. the catalog price of 37 lyam remains at the same time, 85% of the amount should be given to foreigners to suppliers, plus those works that I wrote .. God forbid, the same is ... well, the question is ... where is the profit ... Zin ???
Due to what the plant lives, pays workers wages, taxes, etc.

here’s the answer .. for which .... how is it not "breakthrough project" designed (donated by the Boeing project, for the lobby of its 737 in the Russian Federation).

And "people" everything .. "hawala"! и aviation industry gets up off its knees!

[experienced]

Quote: vaf

And the "people" everything .. "hawala"! and the aviation industry rises from its knees!

Well, so far only mantras from Poghosyan are going on that by 2015 the project will cease to be unprofitable, and that in fact sometimes we learn from the news

13 Jun 2013, 17:52 / ITAR-TASS /. Aeroflot and Sukhoi Civil Aircraft / GSS / refused to officially comment on the information on the breakdown of the SuperJet 100 / SSJ 100 /, which was flying Moscow-Donetsk on 11 June.

The fact that the first SSJ 100 aircraft in the full version / tail number RA-89014 /, which entered service with Aeroflot airline, failed on June 11 after landing at Donetsk airport, a source in Aeroflot told ITAR-TASS and confirmed the source , close to the GSS.

To perform the return flight, the air carrier sent a spare plane to Donetsk. "The breakdown is very frivolous," said a source in the airline. "The plane has already returned to operating flights."

A source close to the GSS said that on June 11 the board was unable to perform a return flight with passengers, but returned to flying within the same day. On June 12, SSJ 100 with flight number RA-89014 completed three flights: from Donetsk to Moscow, from Moscow to Naberezhnye Chelny and a return flight to Moscow. The source did not disclose the nature of the malfunction of the liner.

The SSJ 100 aircraft in full version was handed over to Aeroflot on June 5 and began flights on June 7.

The Americans over there even report malfunctions on the F-22 and F-35, and here they are quietly stirring up a civil liner and something. How scary to fly on such a "miracle"

[VAF]

Quote: seasoned

and then a civilian liner and something quietly muddied.

Well, how could it be otherwise .... after all, "designed" in digital and now CAM repeats this phrase everywhere, though he repeated it ... now something has not been uttering for a long time!

And so ... they no longer know who would snatch this "miracle" ... they shoved a company into a permanent bankrupt with almost 5 years of experience, "Muscovy" are former Armenian ... then it is clear ... the company is practically lying ... .but here I will be planes like in business
Как the patriots say, the portfolio of orders is already popping and .. the line is behind the supers .. don’t have time to push off at the elbows

[Airman]

[quote = vaf] [quote = experienced] the patriots say, the portfolio of orders is already popping and .. the line is behind the supers .. don’t have time to push off at the elbows

[/ Quote]

On exit.

[experienced]

Quote: vaf

"Muscovy" former armenian... then it’s understandable ... the company is already almost lying ... but here I’ll be airplanes

Serge, and there the design and tuning was carried out according to the mentality?
Low profile casting
Blue scribble
Line silencer
Tinted all portholes, including lobovuhu in 0

[VAF]

Quote: seasoned

Serge, and there the design and tuning was carried out according to the mentality?

Yes, no, in my opinion ... for the Tekilians what kind of mentality in FIG .... simply .. that they would have taken at least somehow!

down there, the film is about a salon from Italians .. answered a little bubble .... look ... skin-erysipelas, well, etc. according to your list!

[experienced]

Quote: vaf

down there, the film is about a salon from Italians .. answered a little bubble .... look ... skin-erysipelas, well, etc. according to your list!

I looked, however, for such a price, we could decorate it with paintings and sculptures from the Louvre

[Pimply]

Thought 80. Md-a. It has no analogues

[VAF]

Quote: Pimply

It has no analogues

Remember the famous bearded anecdote is that Zaporozhets? Yes, that's just the engine from Mercedes, the seats from Cadillac, and the platform from BMW

So it is here .... without "skin-faces" from the couturier Pininfarina for nothing, and even on credit ... something the line is not visible



Well, everyones .. a banana like Laos, well, ours .. small .. maybe with a domestic salon ... and so .. it’ll do!

[zvereok]

Nor can I remember what kind of engine they hacked, at the time of the start of super jet? According to the performance characteristics, it kind of consumed less fuel and at the same time could raise more than existing engines including western ones.

[kris]

And he told all the tales.
Here is his La Tribune interview.
http://vpk.name/news/91205_budushee_rossiiskoi_aviacii_la_tribune_franciya.html

[Santa Fe]

Quote: Edward72

After this, the heidemocrats will blame us for arms supplies to Syria and Iran.

This is a completely undeserved accusation. Russia has not delivered an S-300 air defense system to Syria and is still suing Iran because of a broken contract

[orff]

Salem Zahran, director of the Lebanese Media Focal Center, said in an interview with Lebanese nbn that S-300 missile systems "are already in Syria, in the Damascus region."
According to Zakhran, the S-300 “will not be used inside Syria, but will be needed in the event of an attack against Syria, and will be used against Israel and the Doha Americans.”

[Santa Fe]

What is Salem Zahran, if the S-300 arrived in Syria, Mossad and all Western media immediately reported about it

Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday, June 4, that the contract for the supply of Syria S-300 anti-aircraft missile systems has not yet been implemented.

"The contract was signed several years ago. It has not yet been implemented," Putin said on Tuesday at a press conference after the Russia-EU summit.

"As for the S-300, this is indeed one of the best air defense systems in the world, if not the best. The best, probably. It is, of course, a serious weapon. We do not want to upset the balance in the region," the Interfax news agency quoted Putin as saying.

[orff]

from Russia there is a rumor trade, and the NATO members are simply confronting a fact.
the balance has already been violated: patriots on the border of Turkey, on the border of Jordan, in Israel.
With such a balance, the south of Syria can safely be declared a no-fly zone.
Also Deraa, Essaouida under the control of the takfiri supplied by MANPADS

[posad]

Surname is beautiful: Vodka - Galen)))))

[pensioner]

Sailor probably. Vodka does not suit him ...

[Boa kaa]

Quote: retired

Sailor probably. Vodka does not suit him ...

Oh yeah! The translators must have distorted the second part of the surname: not Galien, but "Galyun"! Apparently a Russian sailor took part in the birth of this offspring, and his mother remembered his last phrase in the morning ...

[pensioner]

Something like this ...

[Airman]

Quote: posad

Surname is beautiful: Vodka - Galen)))))

Forgot to change the letters - E to Y. It will turn out Vodka - Galyun, everything is correct, I cut it to the toilet.

[VadimSt]

The French Air Force tried to test the new weapons of the Soot company in various tactical scenarios not only at the test sites, but also in combat conditions.

France is rapidly entering the position of the "hawk" of Europe and neo-colonialism.

[atalef]

Quote: VadimSt

France is rapidly entering the position of the "hawk" of Europe and neo-colonialism.

France has always been a prostitute-like country, both ours and yours. She was the first to launch Muslims from Algeria to Europe, she was the organizer of the norms of morality and multiculturalism, a lover of teaching others, while she believes that she is above the norms that she is trying to establish for others. Caesar's wife is beyond suspicion - who understands what this is about.

[mirag2]

Hello everyone. It seems to me that France launched the Algerians and Moroccans for economic reasons. Although there was a political component, after all, it controlled north-west Africa. And the fact that the French themselves do not like them, back in the early 90s I talked with the French over a glass -he said- "muzulman-bad-terrorist", I didn’t enter-what terrorist?

[atalef]

Quote: mirag2

I think France launched Algerians and Moroccans for economic reasons

Of course, and somehow she doesn’t like to remember that they were kept in mines (where they worked) for 5 years (almost without the right to enter the surface), they lived there and only after 5 years could apply for status (9 by the way in Belgium same )

Quote: mirag2

And the fact that the French themselves do not like them, I was still talking with a Frenchman over a glass in the early 90s, he said, "Musulman-bad-terrorist", I didn’t enter, what kind of terrorist?

Yes, chat / they love, just do nothing. _--- After me - even a flood --- remember who said and the king of which country he was. Here is the answer

[Baboon]

Yes, Louis 14 it was, that still selfish person, almost considered himself a god. Remember the invasion of Algeria in 1830? Before that, Algeria gave them a loan of grain, since the harvest was poor in France. Well, the French "paid off" their debts by invading and capturing Algeria. In general, I watch historical films made by the French. They are civilized, they can shoot about others. It is about Russia in French films that nasty things are constantly said, it is imperative to insert "Greedy insidious tsarism", "Soviet imperialism" in every film like that. And what about themselves? Guillotine - where did the name come from? There they were executed like that, we didn't have that. It can be seen that the resentment for the battle on the Berezina was very deeply rooted in them, how the invincible Napoleon skidded, abandoning his army.

[128mgb]

Tested in a combat situation, is it on the Tuaregs or something. Do they have anything besides Kalash?

[Nevsky]

Quote: 128mgb

Tested in a combat situation, is it on the Tuaregs or something. Do they have anything besides Kalash?

There is. For example DShK

[queen]

Quote: Nevsky

Tested in a combat situation, is it on the Tuareg or something

They also need a training ground with live targets.

[Baboon]

It’s impossible to economically substantiate the use of these bombs, but for them it’s like a training ground. Then it will be possible to advertise what was used in combat conditions. It does not matter that these were unprepared, illiterate bandits with machine guns. And they were sent aviation with such bombs.

[sergo0000]

Quote: 128mgb

Tested in a combat situation, is it on the Tuaregs or something. Do they have anything besides Kalash?

Most likely on the former allies. Http://www.warandpeace.ru/ru/reports/view/80680/The army of Mali decided to go into conflict with France. / Color]

[APASUS]

The French Air Force used a new high-precision weapon in Mali - 250 kg caliber bombs equipped with a high-precision modular guidance kit

And what does Mali have targets for such precision bombs?
All weapons of the Islamists are based on buckets with a machine gun!

[svp67]

Quote: Nevsky

There is. For example DShK

Quote: APASUS

All weapons of the Islamists are based on buckets with a machine gun!

Judging by the photo, there are also KPVT, a very serious goal

[Lopatov]

Militants in the buildings. In prepared positions. Goals of the sea.

[APASUS]

Quote: Spade

Militants in the buildings. In prepared positions. Goals of the sea.

What buildings? What positions?
During the invasion of Afghanistan, the Americans used several hundred Tomahawk missiles, despite the fact that the country had no facilities for destruction more expensive than the missile itself !!
For this house you need a 200 kg guided bomb ??

[Lopatov]

And how much does it cost to train a simple French infantryman? Moreover, in conditions of local wars, precision weapons are often cheaper than conventional ones.

[Lopatov]

For the minuser: most targets in local conflicts are separate. The consumption of conventional shells for a single target is 300 pcs. Managed enough for one. What do you think is cheaper?

[Airman]

Quote: Spade

For the minuser: most targets in local conflicts are separate. The consumption of conventional shells for a single target is 300 pcs. Managed enough for one. What do you think is cheaper?

300 pieces per target? One must not be a trained infantryman.

[Lopatov]

Probability theory dictates such a quantity. This is not direct fire, but shooting from closed fire. And you won’t go far from the laws of nature.

At some platoon stronghold consumption less.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Spade

And how much does it cost to train a simple French infantryman

Marines are not very expensive, pilots are an order of magnitude (or even two!) More expensive.

Quote: Spade

Moreover, in conditions of local wars, precision weapons are often cheaper than conventional ones.

Don't understand again? Did you mean cost / effectiveness? Or do you have free falling ABs in a gold case?

[Lopatov]

I meant the cost of the ammunition needed to guarantee the destruction of a single target. On the example of artillery. Because I don’t know the tabular consumption of free-falling bombs to destroy such targets. However, I’m not sure that such norms exist at all.

[lewerlin53rus]

Tests were simply conducted in less combat conditions and with greater benefit than would have been done at some sort of training ground.

[Lopatov]

I think that the use of such ammunition in Mali was absolutely justified and without any testing needs.

BT ammunition is not only often cheaper, but also safer for its troops and civilians.

[VAF]

Quote: Spade

I think that the use of such ammunition in Mali was absolutely justified and without any testing needs.

+++++++!

[Vadivak]

Quote: vaf

VAF

And yesterday I saw three Algerians (traveled to holy places) circled, then sharply one after another - a hill with a military turn (ranversman) then saw a pilot in a helmet up to about 200 meters, waved his hand, and he lay on the wing, by chance of course, I stood an old stump and a tickle in the throat.

[APASUS]

Quote: Spade

meant the cost of ammunition needed to guarantee the destruction of a single target

It seems that the conversation is about a protected bunker, and not about adobe houses!
You compare the cost of the target itself and 250 kg of guided bomb !!
Where do you see the Maginot line there, or does each fighter have to directly get into the head?
MAXIMUM what is justified there is the use of MLRS

[VAF]

Quote: APASUS

It seems that the conversation is about a protected bunker, and not about adobe houses!

That's about the "adobe houses" you are in vain ... because. duval C-5 and C-8 .. in general, they practically did not take it, only C-13 and C-24, about the accuracy .. I will not.

But the UAB or KAB with a "TV tower" flies beautifully through the window. A door or a chimney!

[APASUS]

Quote: vaf

That's about the "adobe houses" you are in vain ... because. duval C-5 and C-8 .. in general, they practically did not take it, only C-13 and C-24, about the accuracy .. I will not.

What are you doing? What kind of duval? Afghanistan confused?
One is talking about fortifications, the second is about duels!
Where do you see the line of fortifications there?
Do you understand the essence of the conflict in Mali?
Mali is the poorest country, lives in a semi-feudal system and the main fighting force of the rebels is buckets on wheels with machine guns. Despite the fact that the main fortification in Mali is the houses of citizens.
And you will again argue that to defeat the Holodtrans, high-precision weapons in the form of 250 kg of controlled bombs are required ???
If only to demolish along with the settlements !!

[VAF]

Quote: APASUS

What are you doing? What kind of duval? Afghanistan confused?

Why immediately .. Or is an example contagious ... in communication?
Why did I confuse ... I am writing for C-5,8,13,24 ... the French have not yet reached this. what to hang our NURS'y on Rafali!

Quote: APASUS

And you will again argue that to defeat the Holodtrans, high-precision weapons in the form of 250 kg of controlled bombs are required ???

I do not assert, but express my opinion and believe that UO is 1000% more effective than NUO and "chugunki"!

Remind us what losses we suffered in the numerical strength of the Air Force during the 3 days of the Georgian war ??? But there .. the same .. practically .. "hicks" !!!

[Lopatov]

Quote: vaf

I think that UO is 1000% more effective than NUO and "pigs"!

Now you run into the financial factor, beloved by the apologists of total war.
Better to put it this way: using weapons of war on targets
-important tactically;
- highly maneuverable;
- located in close proximity to their troops and civilians;
justifies itself by the criterion of price-result.

[VAF]

Quote: Spade

Better say so

+!

[APASUS]

Quote: vaf

Remind us what losses we suffered in the numerical strength of the Air Force during the 3 days of the Georgian war ??? But there .. the same .. practically .. "hicks" !!!

I am amazed!
Did you compare the Georgian army of sample 080808 with the rebels in Mali ?!
I have not mixed up ?????????
If the rebels from Mali have anti-aircraft weapons, then this is most likely Needle or Arrow.
And the GEORGIAN ARMY (not to be confused with the rebels) was built according to the American standard, Ukraine was put there by Buki removed from duty. They used American reconnaissance satellites and had communication facilities an order of magnitude higher than ours.
And you are their wretches !!
a little off topic:
The Georgians have found an interesting device called "initiator", a set of two halves. A device that allows you to turn on switched off cell phones and direct artillery at them!
I can argue with the arsenal of the Russian army and there is no such device now !!!

[VAF]

Quote: APASUS

Did you compare the Georgian army of sample 080808 with the rebels in Mali ?!

Quantitative composition, structural structure. training, quality of weapons and ... "application" of all this in practice by Georgians Mali rebels ..much higher!

Quote: APASUS

A device that allows you to turn off the cell phones and point them at the artillery!
I can argue with the arsenal of the Russian army and there is no such device now !!!

This is not for me .. this is for Lopatov! Artillery is ... his bread !!!

[Lopatov]

Quote: vaf

This is not for me .. this is for Lopatov!

This is not for me, this is for the REB members. Only they won't say anything. As one joked, "they even put us in a coffin under the control of a special officer." So that the bodies are one hundred percent confident.

And artillery still learned how to shoot at known coordinates in the First World War.

[APASUS]

Quote: vaf

Quantitative composition, structural structure. training, the quality of weapons and ... "application" of all this in practice by the Georgians, the rebels MAI .. much higher!

Do a favor open source information!
Especially in the part where

quantitative composition, structural construction. training, weapons quality

There are schools in the world that are superior in training and building the structure of the troops better than in the US ??? Who then trained the rebels in Mali .......... aliens?

[Lopatov]

As practice shows, the draping army's efficiency is not particularly high.

[Mikhail3]

The cellular signal goes to the servers of the cellular operator for processing. All imaginable and inconceivable commands that can be sent to the phone come from there. Send the command directly to the phone, bypassing the servers ... You can imagine this "initiator" of yours. It only looks like a call to the very top of a cellular operator, with the presentation of the appropriate powers. Or take over network control directly from a cellular company. And so that the operator's admins could not take control back .... Undoubtedly, in this version, the "apparatus" should definitely consist of two halves!
You can also try turning on the phone directly, feeling for it with a directed beam. The truth is, the question arises - is it necessary to shoot at the telephone so groped? What kind of phone is this at all? Questions ...

[mogus]

turn on the switched off phone remotely - hardly (and not necessary, unless it is "flashed" with what is needed). A disconnected phone can be secretly "forced" to answer the network - by answering the direction finding.

[Net]

Remind me Where can I read an adequate report on aviation operations during 080808?

[Lopatov]

No one will provide it to you. There are expert evaluations from the outside, which appeared on the basis of open information. No more.

[VAF]

Quote: Netto

to read an adequate report on aviation actions during 080808?

The Russian Air Force newsletter for the 4th quarter of 2008, although it is under the bar and is in the libraries.

Everything else, printed in the public domain .. is already .. "camouflage-varnished" information!

[Boa kaa]

Quote: vaf

Remind us what losses we suffered in the numerical strength of the Air Force during the 3 days of the Georgian war ??? But there .. the same .. practically .. "hicks" !!!

I'm sorry these the C-200 people from somewhere rolled together with their Slav brothers at the controls, and we have a TA - the cat was crying, so TU-22 had to be scouted in the REP mode under the conditions of the REP in the valleys and on the hills.
If Mali had at least half of Mishiko's air defense, I would have looked at the "joyful" French photographs, when in the cockpit they heard about the radiation of the radar, and then the threat of missiles. It seems to me that the laser control center would be disrupted. Although, the GOS would probably remember the last place of the target.

[VAF]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

It seems to me that the laser CPU would be disrupted. Although, probably the GOS would remember the last place of the goal.

I have already answered this question for you a little below (where you have 3 options for using UAB with a laser "head")!
For this, there are different options (modular nozzles) for UAB !!!

[VAF]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

That was TU-22 in reconnaissance mode

Only not in reconnaissance mode, namely, the Tu-22M3R reconnaissance aircraft, that’s it ... that was

That's just asking .. to hell ??? After all, each missile carrier is equipped with stationary equipment for monitoring the results of the strike (both with AFA-42/20, at night NAFA-MK-75) and RTS = you!

[aviamed90]

Greetings, vaf!

Yes. For this loss, no one answered in the General Staff of the Air Force. Who made such a "wise" decision? Commander in chief? Or did someone help him?

And the guys, according to the latest data, have not been found. Although the locals saw the dome.

[Lopatov]

They did not find only the commander, sub. Coventsova

[Phantom Revolution]

Quote: vaf

Remind us what losses we suffered in the numerical strength of the Air Force during the 3 days of the Georgian war ??? But there .. the same .. practically .. "hicks" !!!

Here I do not agree that what and what about the Georgians' equipment and weapons were at the level, ranging from modernized Israel’s carcasses to various equipment, which, although it was not in such a large quantity, still existed. About ours, then I noticed on the video and t-62 if the memory does not change. So the conditions were almost equal on earth. Regarding high-precision weapons, point y and even speculation even iskander.
If Saakashvili was not so sure that Russia would get involved, then the experience would be sadder. Georgians stupidly did not dig in and did not create a normal supply infrastructure.

[Phantom Revolution]

will not get involved *

[Airman]

Quote: vaf

Quote: APASUS

It seems that the conversation is about a protected bunker, and not about adobe houses!

That's about the "adobe houses" you are in vain ... because. duval C-5 and C-8 .. in general, they practically did not take it, only C-13 and C-24, about the accuracy .. I will not.

But the UAB or KAB with a "TV tower" flies beautifully through the window. A door or a chimney!

In Afghanistan, the tank gun did not take a duval, and the Shilka simply broke through the duval, so the cost of 20-25 pieces of 23 mm shells is much lower.

[Lopatov]

And why not in the adobe house? This is a local war, you have your own infantry four hundred and five hundred meters, and around this house there are twenty more, in which women and children are lying on the clay floor. Do you propose to mix all this carpet with the earth? Or send heroic foot soldiers there, who, at the cost of a couple of their corpses and a dozen wounded, will take this strategic hack?

Quote: APASUS

Where do you see the Maginot line

That's just on the Maginot line to use conventional ammunition is justified. Any bomb will find its target. If not a bunker, then a field kitchen. Or celebrating the natural needs in the bushes of a fighter.

Quote: APASUS

MAXIMUM what is justified there is the use of MLRS

Is this so that no witnesses are left? Division, as expected?
The minimum target size for MLRS 150 to 150 normal 400 to 400 meters.

[aviamed90]

Lopatov

Here's what I found in the old synopsis on the discipline "BP ASP":

The factory building consists of 2 buildings. The probability of hitting 0,24, and the other 0,17. 1 bomb is dropped on target. Determine the probability that there will be a hit in one of the buildings.
Solution: apply the probability addition theorem
P (A + B) = P (A) + P (B)
P (A + B) = 0,17 + 0,24 = 0,41

There is a theory of calculations for the specific conditions of the PSA.
In addition, there are already calculated force orders (for each type of aircraft and helicopter) with TSA for certain probabilities of defeating certain targets.

Well, and the cost of TSA should be asked from representatives of the military-industrial complex (MIC). Remember. How did the Russian Defense Ministry of General Sergeev have - "cost preparation"?

[Lopatov]

That you are something in the wilds. You can, of course, now introduce performance indicators into the discussion, all sorts of approximations of the coordinate law of defeat stepwise, but this is unnecessary.

I don’t know, as among flyers, among artillerymen the most valid thing is the defeat of targets in the immediate vicinity of their troops.
Uncle sat in the basement with a machine gun, and scribbles as best he can. The infantry buried their noses in the ground and can neither breathe nor ruin the air. And he is not going to pose as the Sailors.

What we have? Tactically important target (that’s precisely it is important, and not Hitler’s bunker, as some people think) And it must be hit.

You can adjust the tank or punching the walls, bypass the machine gunner from the flank. But he is not mentally retarded, and if he is not chained to a machine gun with a chain, he will not wait. Yes, and there is no one to hide the tank from anti-tank equipment.
It is possible by aviation with conventional ammunition, for example, NURSs. But the infantry is likely to be hooked, and vrazhin usually have anti-aircraft not only riflemen.

That would be something controlled here ... But we simply do not have it. And if it were, then these banduras for backlighting are not particularly designed for carrying with you.

And the artilleryman has to move the aiming point for the first shot farther away, bring the gaps closer to him to the "fork" and pray that the infantry and himself will not rip their ass off with their own shell.

Do the troops need guided ammunition and target designation for them?
Absolutely YES
Do I need to apply them according to tactical necessityand not when the cost of the target is more than the cost of guided ammunition at least 10 times?
Absolutely YES

[aviamed90]

Lopatov

I agree with you only partially.

Yes, such ammunition is needed.

But here's a specific example for you: in 1993, he took part in a command-and-control unit 1 VA with approximately the same name: "The destruction of illegal Chinese migrants (20-30 thousand people) by the VA forces in the area of ​​Lake Khanka."
Solution: a calculated outfit of adib forces using AB, NAR of various calibers and KMGU.

Do you think the cost of TSA matters here? And what TSA had to be applied here?

After all, you can throw them and KAB, UAB, UR "V-Z". Will it be effective - probably "yes". Is it cheap? Not cheap at all.

[Lopatov]

And in your example, is there really a tactical need for the use of high-precision ammunition?
Every vegetable has its own garden.

[aviamed90]

Here I am about the same.

You can gouge one of the buildings of the plant (see the example above), using 4 batteries, or you can hammer 1 KAB, or 1 UAB, or 1 OTR on it with a higher probability of destruction, but also with a higher cost of TSA (missiles)!
Both there and here as a result - the destroyed building of the plant.

What do you choose?
Provided that the target is previously explored and its characteristics are known.

As a result, you pay for the accuracy of hitting the target with the cost of the ammunition that you use. The question is whether you justifiably spent a bunch of "grandmothers" on "exact" hitting the target (performing a combat mission).

Here it is necessary to think and consider.

[aviamed90]

By the way, this is what the head of the VOTP (air fire and tactical training), or, more simply, the "nachboy", is doing in the aviation regiments.

It is he who will determine the possible TSA to defeat specific targets with a certain probability and gives his proposals to the commander.

[VAF]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

Or do you have free-falling ABs in a gold case?

I’ll also put my 5 cents in defense of Lopatov!

Ammunition of free fall is dropped from the aircraft along the longitudinal or inclined range, and so often (depending on altitude and speed) this range or relative is less than the range of the same AK, RPK, KPVT, ZSU, etc.

Now take your favorite criterion of cost and efficiency, so all the same, what is more profitable to keep the carrier and spend UAB or spend an ordinary "iron pot", but at the same time have a great chance of losing the carrier?

So I'm sorry, but Lopatov is right for all 100%!

[TRAFFIC]

And to top it off, a short story about B-1 and JDAM in Libya http://pfc-joker.livejournal.com/41294.html, with cast iron this would not work.

[VAF]

Quote: TRAFIC

it wouldn’t work out with iron.

Definitely +!

If only a whole detachment of 36 fab-500s in each plane, during the day, in PMU, with OPB and series, with a minimum interval (in a salvo of 12 pieces) .. then at the expense of .. "area" can be covered!

[Boa kaa]

Quote: vaf

So I'm sorry, but Lopatov is right for all 100%!

Perhaps you are right: high-altitude bombing is ineffective and will require a greater consumption of phabs.
But still, it hurts the rumor that the WTO will be cheaper than conventional ammunition, which the States thus simply disposed of.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

But still it hurts the rumor that the WTO will cost less than conventional ammunition

You simply compare one ordinary and one high precision. But I gave an example: when a point target is hit, it is necessary to compare the cost of one high-precision and three hundred ordinary ones.

Well, as for conventional ammunition: The Israelis have a small stray, screw it into the fuse of a standard 155-mm projectile, and you get a 155-mm guided projectile with an inertial guidance system with correction according to global positioning data.
Similar kits, and with a wide variety of GOS, NATO has for free-falling bombs.

[Santa Fe]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

Marines are not very expensive, pilots are an order of magnitude (or even two!) More expensive.

That's why the Tomahawks were used

The most modern (Block 4) costs ~ $ 2 million.

Strike Eagle Flight Hour - $ 20
+ cost of high-precision b / p (from $ 50 thousand for 227 kg "Payway")
+ the probability of losing the plane (and two pilots) from fire from the ground / tech. malfunctions, etc. force majeure

cost of "Strike Needle"> $ 100 million - one fallen "Eagle" costs as much as 50 released axes ... will he manage to drop the same 50 1000-lb. bombs before being shot down (damaged) ??

[Captain]

Well, we were the villains in Afghanistan, and their method of destroying entire villages is humane and painless. They’ve been repeating this very often lately.

[GP]

Quote: Skipper

Well, we were the villains in Afghanistan, and their method of destroying entire villages is humane and painless. They’ve been repeating this very often lately.

For example, the cost of these bombs can be used to rebuild two of these villages (not counting the lives of people), if not more. And according to the sums spent on the entire war, in "dead presidents", turn Afghanistan into a Middle East economic dragon (with a stretch).

[VAF]

Quote: APASUS

For this house you need a 200 kg guided bomb ??

And you can guarantee that it is in this house that you do not have a warehouse with MANPADS, ATGMs or headquarters in the photo?

Remind you how to clean the villages beyond the river used whole divisions of the City?
Or how many "chugunok" Dalaya Aviation "poured" ... over the squares?

so dear, you are wrong here!

[Phantom Revolution]

Quote: vaf

so dear, you are wrong here!

In part, he is right, because the USSR did not consider itself an ideal of democracy and did not sing praises about peace, and as I recall, no one in the United States invited to Afghanistan.

[Santa Fe]

Quote: APASUS

During the invasion of Afghanistan, the Americans used several hundred Tomahawk missiles, despite the fact that the country had no facilities for destruction more expensive than the missile itself !!

Come on!

Warehouses, training camps, a small aeroflot, fortresses and guarded Taliban Bonz mansions (bunkers) ....

[shamil]

Soon this prostitute-like country will be colonized and spanked by the inhabitants of its former colonies.
Interesting? are active local, apassive immigrants in the geyropa? if so. I will explode with laughter

[cartridge]

The duplicity of Europe has no limits! I wonder what connection exists between the proclamation of homosexual as a state policy of France and the growth of its military aggressiveness in the last two years?
Or are roosters supposed to be so untied in life? But this is until the Arctic fox crawls into the chicken coop to them.

[Megatron]

Well, yes, when under your wings the poins of urine are at least the most accurate, as if they were singing as they entered the borough controlled by even simple S-300s, not to mention something more powerful!

[0255]

According to Maksim Kalashnikov, author of The Broken Sword of the Empire, the USSR also used high-precision laser-guided weapons in Afghanistan. In Chechnya, this was no longer the case, only simple free-fall bombs. Something tells me that the money allocated for Russian precision weapons was spent by officials on cottages on Rublevka, Mercedes and BMWs, the Canary Islands-Maldives, etc.

[Lopatov]

Quote: 0255

According to Maxim Kalashnikov, author of The Broken Sword of the Empire

Believe, but not in everything.
Truly guided weapons with semi-active laser guidance in the USSR were created and tested in Afghanistan.
But then he is disingenuous. Because it is being actively developed and modernized now. For artillery: guided and corrected 240-mm "Smelchak-M", 152-mm "Centimeter-M", "Krasnopol-M", "Krasnopol-M1", 122-mm "Kitolov-2M", 120-mm "Kitolov" -2 ", KM-8" Edge "
In Chechnya, they definitely used the "Smelchak" adjustable mine

By aviation, let the flyers tell you.

[VAF]

Quote: Spade

By aviation, let the flyers tell you.

Are you suggesting that I finally "bring" VC PhDs and any Avengers to a heart attack?

After all, the poor will scream at the snot - .. this is a subscription, this is a state secret, it cannot be, there is no such thing on the internet, etc.

So ... let someone else .. try I already have the patience!

[Lopatov]

You can simply:
There are developments. Developments at the level of world standards.
But: almost no means of acquisition, reconnaissance, target designation and illumination in the troops in scanty amounts.
I guess?

It's like in artillery: a loud victorious article about the shooting of the high-precision "Kitolov-M" that really has no analogues in the world. Cool!
Yes, that's just the KShM 1V119-1 "Rheostat-1", capable of illuminating the target, is present in the troops in the amount of several pieces

[VAF]

Quote: Spade

Developments at the level of world standards.
But: almost no means of acquisition, reconnaissance, target designation and illumination in the troops in scanty amounts.
I guess?

+!

Quote: Spade

present in the army in the amount of several pieces

Like ours, practically ... honestly

[Pimply]

The sound of flashing lights will be heard only in the country - ambulances disperse to collect everyone you brought to a heart attack 8)) And there will be many of them, I smell

[VAF]

Quote: Pimply

And there will be many, I feel

Hello, Zhenya! +! Yes, something too many of them divorced in the "extreme time", as if cloned or ... multiply ... like rabbits!

Maybe it's really time to switch to a "specific" and "technical" language in communication, or else ... "they interfere with their Internet knowledge" all and sundry .. one Avenger is worth something, and the venture capitalist Constantine .... specially returned last night read your "dialogue" with him (reason-mirage2 so squeaked with delight that he gave something to someone there .. let me think I'll take a look .... and there is a pimpled friend .. opposed)!
You believe ... until the 3rd koment, he came and .. threw it off .. stupidly prominuated (then there were so many insults) and left because there is no strength just to read something that people don’t understand firstly, but second, not understanding yet, trying to discuss, well, apro what .. spit (well, they have it forever) I don’t even say!
I am amazed .. how are you, or rather, how do you still have the patience for such .. "communication"? +!

[Pimply]

Because the elites have toughly built their ideology now on a conservative course and intolerance: this makes it possible to distract from problems better. And hating is always easier than thinking. 8)

[Armata]

Quote: vaf

Are you suggesting that I finally "bring" VC PhDs and any Avengers to a heart attack?

Hello, Sergey. All this is interesting of course, but you can hardly do me as a candidate. I withstand the attacks of ministers in the ministries;

[VAF]

Quote: Mechanic

but you’re unlikely to be me as a candidate

Zhenya, hello, dear! Glad to see and hear you! How are you ... are you still THERE or already ... in the "tram depot"?

Yes yesterday .. I "clashed" with one "venture candidate" .. so you don't know (everything has already been cut out there)!

And you ... fellow countryman, friend and comrade .... how could such a thing be thought?

Quote: Mechanic

I withstand ministry attacks in ministries,

Yes, the same .. especially not shy .. it was true there was one Deputy Minister of Defense .. in the service of the troops .. that's why everyone was "afraid" though it was long ago, oh how long!

[Armata]

Quote: vaf

Glad to see and hear you! How are you ... are you still THERE or already ... in the "tram depot"?

Dissuaded, stayed. The chief said that if necessary he would reach the minister so as not to let me go.

Quote: vaf

Yes, the same .. especially not shy .. it was true there was only one Deputy Minister of Defense .. in the service of the troops .. that's what everyone was "afraid" really long time ago, oh, how long ago!

We have one of the deputies in MinTyazhMash. Only we with this formidable uncle found a common language, so I am now there as a shock-absorbing pad between the research institutes and the ministries.

[VAF]

Quote: Mechanic

Dissuaded, stayed.

Well, okay !!!

Quote: Mechanic

Chef said

What are you doing in a row to him .. "warning" on the form put .. 2nd or 3rd? In theory, I should have understood from the first time ... that I will stay ... with nothing !!

Quote: Mechanic

I am now there as a shock-absorbing pad between research institutes and ministries.

Zhenya, look carefully with damping. you know ... "dry friction" is ... "dry"!

[Armata]

Quote: vaf

Zhenya, look carefully with damping. you know ... "dry friction" is ... "dry"!

Good damn what.

Quote: vaf

What are you doing in a row to him .. "warning" on the form put .. 2nd or 3rd? In theory, I should have understood from the first time ... that I will stay ... with nothing !!

My statement is with him without a date. So let's see how it turns.

Quote: vaf

Well, okay !!!

Kama is okay, but with me my wife, bailiffs (By mistake, which they do not want to recognize), the children are asking for money. But this is all the lyrics. Better explain to me, everyone is arguing about money, bombs, rockets. The question is this. Isn’t it better to use a highly accurate missile once than to drop an nth kilo of bombs? will there be fewer unnecessary victims? And why, as soon as those who yell Hurray FORWARD RUSSIA hear that they are being used by the French, there’s nowhere to get money right away when the Russians, well done, take care of the life of civilians? Somehow it turns out inconsistently. Each country defends its own interests, but the ways are different for everyone. If some people prefer to spray a ton of bombs or white phosphorus, others don’t count the money and do point strikes.

[experienced]

Quote: Mechanic

And why, as soon as those who yell Hurray FORWARD RUSSIA hear that they are being used by the French, there’s nowhere to get money right away when the Russians, well done, take care of the life of civilians? Somehow it turns out inconsistently. Each country defends its own interests, but the ways are different for everyone. If some people prefer to spray a ton of bombs or white phosphorus, others don’t count the money and do point strikes.

Zhen forgot about the constant "declarations" that the Fu-22 and Fu-35 were under-planes and sawed off and our PAK Fa would drive them across the sky with "scattered rags" (I am not talking about the number and readiness for battle), our nuclear submarine could surface and the whole Let the 6th US Fleet go to the bottom, Russia should supply Syria and Iran with 100500 S-300 and Iskander units and deploy its airborne forces and marines in Syria and other miracles in bulk.

[VAF]

Quote: Mechanic

Isn’t it better to use a highly accurate missile once than to drop an nth kilo of bombs? will there be fewer unnecessary victims?

Definitely YES! And it’s better and more efficient and .. much cheaper, and safer !!!

Quote: Mechanic

And why, as soon as those who yell Hurray FORWARD RUSSIA hear that they are being used by the French, there’s nowhere to get money right away when the Russians, well done, take care of the life of civilians? Somehow it turns out inconsistently.

And they always have something like something. Western, like a child prodigy, like something ours, it’s only unparalleled .. so it’s right it has no analogues, because he is not in the troops, everything is in prototypes, well ... in our hopes!

Quote: Mechanic

If some prefer a ton of bombs or spray white phosphorus

And about .. "this" how do you know? After all, this "infa" is only for .... well, for those who ... "was in business"!

Now the Avenger and Konstantin will definitely have a good chance ... they will cover the whole Internet, and then there .. no !!!

[GP]

Quote: vaf

Definitely YES! And it’s better and more efficient and .. much cheaper, and safer !!!

Better, Yes! But whether it is more effective is debatable. The controlled "waffle" is essentially designed to fly to a precisely designated place with the exception of misses. The war is full of the unknown, misinformation: the required building will amaze, but the toilet is next to it, in which the anti-tank guided missiles (for example) are stashed and about which the intelligence did not know, no, and the blank may well "miss" this ill-fated toilet, because it initially flies approximately on target. And such a moment as sensitivity to methods of counteracting means of controlled destruction.

[Lopatov]

One can argue with this "effectively". Have you heard of Monte Cassino? There was a monastery for itself, did not touch anyone. The Germans did not occupy him - it was corny inconvenient to defend there. But the wise and far-sighted command of the Anglo-American troops decided to carpet-bomb the monastery and the adjacent territory.
As a result, the ruins of a cultural monument. In which such a knot of resistance was organized that the German paratroopers, even at the cost of huge losses, could not get out of there. Poles still can’t pronounce this name without tears. And the Germans in the end themselves quietly left. When the Americans landed in the rear created a threat to the environment

The use of excessive force is not always good.

[GP]

Exactly! Efficiency is determined by the end result. For example, in Syria, with its branched passages, camouflaged bunkers, it’s not known where, a guided projectile / missile in large-scale use is not much more effective than a conventional unguided, but much cheaper.

[Pimply]

Not cheaper. Where you need one managed, unmanaged account goes to tens and hundreds, as a rule. Naturally, there is also a need for conventional shells and missiles. But with the use of high-precision, this number is sharply reduced.

[VAF]

Quote: GP

But whether it’s more effective is debatable.

Silent scene ??

Beseda goes into the rank of reasoning ... "if my grandmother had ... one thing ... she would be a grandfather"?

Have you ever wondered that a pig can fly into the toilet (this is, in your opinion, due to aiming errors or aerodynamic and ballistic errors) and move in a completely different direction (i.e. with a flight or undershoot, as well as laterally)? And how then .... and the building is intact and the toilet ... and the plane flew off. The kerosene burned ... God forbid that he didn't "grab" something from the MZA or MANPADS?

So all the same, it is more profitable to have one UAB or KAB from a distance outside the air defense zone of destruction, with a probability of hitting 99,9%, or to get into the air defense counteraction zone and from a fixed mode (and not from free maneuver, as "they go over their ears in" air special media) to try bring a few "pigs", which after separation from the plane ... are not controllable!

[GP]

VAF

"grandmother ... grandfather" is one old people.
Even assuming that 1 guided shot is comparable in cost to 10 ordinary shots, that is, tasks where the effectiveness of the guided shots will drop sharply in comparison.
An example was from a series of random successful hits, which the grandmother said in two. But what about when the task is to slow down the advancement of enemy equipment, will a dozen well-aimed shots in this case be comparable to a hundred conventional ones? Is it possible to set fire to a forest with wide coverage on the flank and stuff like that. Tasks where the accuracy is not as significant as the number of incoming charges.

[Pimply]

Offer to extinguish for the sake of probability that MANPADS in the toilet, kids?

[Lopatov]

And what if our scout is illegal in the toilet? I just read the secret document and knead it well to destroy, and on you.

[Pimply]

This is called - SURPRISE! 8)

[aviamed90]

I think that each TSA has its advantages and disadvantages.
Ground targets are different. And areal (linear) and point. For each "sharpened" its own ammunition.

[Lopatov]

I agree. For example, artillery on a platoon stronghold to work high-precision stupid.

[Pimply]

Absolutely.

[VAF]

Quote: 0255

in Afghanistan, the USSR also used high-precision laser-guided weapons.

Yes, +! But less than we would like!

Quote: 0255

In Chechnya, this was no longer the case, only simple free-falling bombs.

You are mistaken here! Of course, they used more in the first than in the second. But they used!

Now the Avenger711 will "rush along" with another "pearl" - I once again caught VAF, tk. about this on the Internet .. do not write !!!

[Lopatov]

Let the avenger remember how Dudaev died. Not semi-active with a laser, but still ...

In artillery, on the contrary, controlled and corrected were more used in the second. Problems with the backlight. However, persisting so far.

[VAF]

Quote: Spade

Let the avenger remember how Dudaev died.

And he will ask .. "and who is it"? Now, if they asked him about the Pokimon. So he easily ... even by name!

Quote: Spade

Problems with the backlight. However, persisting so far.

We have the same thing ... carriers practically do not use .. only "our foreign".
And we mainly only for measuring range!

[queen]

Quote: vaf

Now, if they asked him about Pokimon. So he easily ... even by name

Greetings to Sergey. Well, something like this))))

[VAF]

Quote: regin

Well, something like this)

Hello Volodya! Very subtly noticed! +! And the musical accompaniment from ZZ Top just

[Armata]

Quote: regin

Greetings to Sergey. Well, something like this))))

We just load and take away the parking lot for a fine. 1600 parking per day. But you can get it only after paying the fine, registering the docks in the traffic police, and this is at least 3 day. So now only the wildly wealthy allow themselves to do this. do not care for the gibbons to take out.

[0255]

Quote: APASUS

The French Air Force used a new high-precision weapon in Mali - 250 kg caliber bombs equipped with a high-precision modular guidance kit

And what does Mali have targets for such precision bombs?
All weapons of the Islamists are based on buckets with a machine gun!

If there were S-300 air defense systems in Mali, Su-30 and MiG-29 fighters, then the French would not have touched them

[atalef]

Quote: 0255

If there were S-300 air defense systems in Mali, Su-30 and MiG-29 fighters, then the French would not have touched them

Interestingly, Mali certainly in the 15th century. was the richest country in the world, but it remained so in the 15th century. What s-300. There the feudal system is still slavery.

[Lopatov]

Right.
The army, which is armed with the S-300 air defense system, Su-30 and MiG-29 fighters, is capable of driving its separatists under the bench even without the help of the French.

[shamil]

Why are they fighting with them, with the Malian people. Hone their skills?

[Lopatov]

Mali is gold. Explored reserves of 690 tons. The extraction and income from it must be controlled. Imagine a terrorist international with such a source of income.

[Black]

Quote: shamil

Why are they fighting with them, with the Malian people. Hone their skills?

Well, it's a "by-product". France is a former metropolis with geopolitical and economic interests in Mali and neighboring countries.
There is no war for fun.
Let Mali become New Vietnam for them !!!

[Tourist Breakfast]

Just in order to hit small groups of militants and even individual leaders, you need high-precision weapons. This is not an accumulation of equipment or a factory bombing.

[Boa kaa]

250 kg caliber aviation bombs equipped with the AASM SBU-64 modular precision-guided guidance kit with a laser homing head.

This deserves attention for the simple reason that the module "clings" to a simple FAB-250, and a high-precision ammunition is ready. Yes, not as good as a special building with aerodynamic surfaces dropped tens of kilometers from the target, but still, in greenhouse conditions, there was no opposition of someone who managed to get into the circle R = 1,0 m.

The air bombs were dropped from the Rafale fighter, which, in addition to the air bombs, had an onboard laser designator on its underwing pylon.
Here the questions arise:
- if the target was highlighted only carrier then in a real battle, he needs to irradiate it all the time so that there is no disruption of the control unit. How real is it in the conditions of the European theater of war, where is it saturated with air defense and IA?
- if the goal illuminates another designator, then this is a different outfit of forces: at least a couple of "Rafale". Or someone else. Group goal! Air defense and IA will not leave her without attention.
- if TSU is on from ground post, then you need to drag the equipment for "direct fire", again - not comme il faut! Yes, and a serious enemy has laser radiation detection devices on every tank. Smoke grenades, and further in 1,0 m you can not get.
Then, this is a weapon for important ground targets ... And they are covered by air defense. In short, there are weapons, but there are goals: there are many more Tuaregs! IMHO.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

if the control center comes from the ground post, then you need to drag the equipment for "direct fire", again - not comme il faut!

Why drag? Reconnaissance devices capable of illuminating targets are a fairly common occurrence in the French army. In particular, all advanced aviation gunners have them.
In addition, you forgot the fourth option - backlight from reconnaissance UAV.

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

Then, this is a weapon for important ground targets.

Including moving. According to which ammunition with GPS guidance, which is being intensively promoted to NATO troops, cannot work. And on them you have to use a much more expensive "fire-forget" or from a television seeker

[VAF]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

Here the questions arise:

That would not arise such questions that are absolutely legitimate and "come up" with several options for "heads" and "guidance systems"!

And then they choose depending on the nature of the goal, forces and means of counteraction, weather conditions, etc.!

Well, for the European theater of operations, television and thermal imaging "heads" have been "invented" .. here is the uselessness of illumination by anyone (neither the providing aircraft nor the PAN) and the use from a low altitude (from a difficult maneuver) and avoiding the target .. without entering into the anti-air defense zone!

[Boa kaa]

Quote: vaf

"come up with" several options for "heads" and "guidance systems"!

Aviation and navy often use the same RO samples, just modified for different carriers. And what kind of GOS are I know, it was just about the laser control center. PANs will be swept away by a worthy enemy, it is more difficult with UAVs, but I think they will also cope, but how to be in the smoke of explosions, fires, aerosol camouflage ... It's easier in the navy: space is always with us, and that the winged brothers, besides the TLV, the GOS have in case of "non-flying weather "? GPS for tanks?

[Lopatov]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

PANA worthy opponent will sweep

The infantry is indestructible.
PAN is an advanced aircraft gunner. Even a worthy opponent is tormented by him among the other fighters to look for.

[aviamed90]

Lopatov

With PANs, it’s also not so simple in our Fatherland.

In the USSR, 2 military schools were involved in the preparation of PAN: a branch of the Voroshilovgrad Air Force School (Crimea, the urban settlement of Bagherovo) and the Stavropol Air Force Air Defense School. The first remained in Ukraine and has long been disbanded. The second - changed its specialization and became technical in 1993.
In the Russian Federation, they were prepared by the Yeisk VVAU (VI). Not anymore. And at the faculty of "Air Traffic Management" (which includes the preparation of the PAN), girls studied too!

Where they are being prepared now is hard to say. I think that - ANYWHERE!

The basic specialty is an officer (for combat control) (OBU) in the Air Force or a navigator of guidance (SH) in air defense. The preparation included the theory of visual guidance at the scientific center using KO (i.e., TsU) and a field exit for 2-3 weeks with practice at the training ground (Mi-8, Mi-24).

PANs were part of the GBU (combat control groups) subordinated to the ASV and were only seconded to regiments (battalions), sometimes even to individual companies of the SV or Airborne Forces.

In addition to them, PAN could be prepared at special courses from among the Air Force officers, as a rule, decommissioned pilots, helicopter pilots.
In Chechnya, there have been cases when allegedly trained sergeants were appointed to these posts (there were no specialists), although the position was captain. Well, the level was as a result appropriate.

There are also many problems with the equipment. I mean old radio stations.

This profession is akin to the artillery spotter of fire.

[Lopatov]

Quote: aviamed90

This profession is akin to the artillery spotter of fire.

Then this is a paragraph. Because in artillery there is no advanced art. spotters. Although they are needed (contract sergeants). To increase the number of channels of target designation-correction of fire. And even special complexes of automation tools for them are developed. Which foreign carry, but do not deliver to the troops.

product 1B183

In artillery, battery and battalion commanders do this, which stick out, respectively, next to company and battalion commanders.

I only saw the advanced aviation gunner once, under Bamut. Major. Caught in Mozdok, given a radio station, allowed to put soap and water in a field bag, and sent it light. His men from OPTadn fed and provided everyone.
For the rest, the infantry and all other ground units relied on Magic Orange Smoke to "communicate" with the aviation.

[aviamed90]

Lopatov

You communicate with him.
True, I do not have combat experience. But they trained me at the school of instructors who passed Afghanistan. So far, I remember something from those times (1988). But I couldn’t apply - I got into the IBA.
Maybe it's for the best.

And the PAN guys in Afghanistan have done VERY productive work. Everyone was happy! Especially - "spirits".

[Lopatov]

I don’t know, maybe there was someone in the division. But I naturally tried to stay away from the KNP division

[aviamed90]

Lopatov

The structure is very simple.

GBU (from the Air Force OA (TA)) were assigned to the division. GBU had several PANs (usually the number of regiments). By the decision of the division commander, PANs were assigned to the regiments (battalions, companies) on the front line.

There were still abnormal PANs. They were seconded to help the NE from OBU (ShN) KP of the Air Force VA or air defense aviation.

"Free hunting" was practiced in Afghanistan. PAN + 2-3 paratroopers landed at a convenient height for several days, where they could visually observe caravans of "spirits" or other targets. Well, they called in aviation. Not only the army ...

[VAF]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

And what do the winged brothers have in addition to the TLV GOS in case of "bad weather"?

You don’t want to "hear" my idea, which I have already stated twice, or maybe I am not very clear in my explanation?
I'll try to make it easier - for each goal, or rather, each task has its own "head".
Moreover, the extreme laser could be tested in real combat use ... so why not?

Lopatov clearly answered about PAN

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

GPS on tanks?

A radar "head" with command "correction" will go? and radiometric? telethermovision, optoelectronic, etc.?

Aviators do not have bad weather - "any weather .. thank you"!

[JonnyT]

enlighten the ignorant, how can a bomb be laser-guided? It’s just like a bomb, it falls without a mover? all that’s with the engine is already a rocket!
how can a body freely falling from a height be corrected in space and can it also be guided by a laser ????

[aviamed90]

Oops!

We start from the beginning!

JonnyT

Do not be too lazy to look, at least in Wikipedia, for information about the PSA and the CAB.

[JonnyT]

ATP .... a little enlightened
Oh look what I found ...... I think it will be interesting:

Aim bombing. According to foreign experts, the means of tracking targets and guidance systems for guided missiles based on radar devices, due to interference from the reflection of radio waves from objects located on the earth's surface (trees, buildings, etc.), do not have the necessary accuracy and practically cannot detect an airplane (rocket) during their flight at altitudes up to 15 m.
Diagram of a laser tracking and guidance system: 1 - gyroscope; 2 - stabilized mirror; 3 - mirror; 4 - telescope; 5 - fiber optical fibers; b - photoelectronic multiplier; 7 - a laser beam sent to a ground target; 8 - laser beam reflected from the target; 9 - laser; 10 - weapon guidance system.
In this case, laser systems sending a beam with an insignificant divergence, which is aimed strictly at the target, are considered the most promising means for location and aimed fire.
Laser ranging systems, as well as laser rangefinders, gyroscopes, sights, bombing systems and other devices are already in service in the US Army. Rangefinders and fire control systems are installed on helicopters, fighter-bombers, attack aircraft, as well as on tanks.
The beam of a solid-state laser (usually with an yttrium aluminum grenade) on-board or ground installation is directed at the target and, after reflection from its surface, is captured by a device mounted on board the aircraft. This signal, received by an optical telescope, is focused at the input of a photodetector and is converted into an electric current using photoelectronic multipliers, which controls an automatic target tracking and weapon guidance system.
As soon as the laser tracking system, directed by the shooter at the target, accurately determines its location, the aircraft (or guided missile) can immediately go on the attack. When using laser systems for bombing and firing, especially at small angles of flight of bombs or shells in relation to the ground (up to 3 °), the accuracy of hitting the target is greatly increased (in 8-10 times).
Laser homing heads are mounted directly on bombs and connected to steering surface control units. Such a bomb dropped from an airplane itself is aimed at a target illuminated by a laser beam. The target can be lit either from the ground or from an airplane. The average deviation from the target of the bomb equipped with a homing head was 3-3,6 m during field tests (conducted by the US military), while without laser guidance the deviation from the target reached 90-120 m.
The laser guidance system allows bombing without lowering the aircraft's flight altitude. To do this, the aircraft controller must irradiate the target with a laser so that the bombs falling from a high altitude would homing on the target along the reflected beam. In this case, the aircraft may be at a distance unattainable for ground-based air defense systems ... Engineers Yu. Lokhov, V. SIPyagin, I. Lysova, Science and Life magazine of the times of the USSR

I love the Soviet school, everything is simple and clear, not that tricky ... e Western wording

[Pimply]

Since they began to enlighten

The Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) is a GPS-based equipment suite that converts existing dumb bombs into all-weather smart ammunition. Designed in the USA. The first set was released in 1997 by Boeing. The JDAM Development Program is a joint program of the United States Air Force and the United States Navy.
JDAM is a set of wings mounted in the middle of the bomb, and a tail unit with a controlled tail that allows the bomb to maneuver. There is also a computer with navigation equipment.
Bombs equipped with the JDAM kit are sent to the target with an integrated inertial guidance system paired with an improved GPS receiver, providing them with an announced range of 15 nautical miles (28 km) from the drop point. The value of the CVO shown in the tests is 11 meters.
The operating principle of JDAM differs from laser-guided bombs and infrared-guided bombs, which can be hindered by adverse conditions at the surface of the earth (for example, atmospheric opacity due to a dust storm). Recently, JDAM ammunition has been understaffed, however, with laser-guided heads (mounted in front of the bomb), since such guidance systems are advantageously used against certain types of targets. Thanks to this, the old ammunition turns into a combined modern high-precision weapon, capable of hitting, including actively maneuvering targets. The JDAM kit is used to upgrade unguided bombs with caliber from 230 kg (500 pounds) to 910 kg (2000 pounds). The kit costs $ 35000 for the GBU-38 bomb and $ 70000 for the GBU-31. As of September 2010, the Boeing had produced more than 215 JDAM guidance kits.

[Zomanus]

And so we need to flush our weapons. At least defensive to protect tanks, means of detection and target designation. Diplomacy is to observe the pure appearance of fair play. If necessary, Western countries will do whatever they want.

[fedora]

I agree with regin. Our site is poor in professionalism. The interest of professionals in him dies away every month.

[queen]

Quote: fedor

The interest of professionals in him dies away every month.

A professional in armaments is not associated with politics. But here, if the specialist speaks the truth and on the case, the Kremlin leeches fly in defense of the interests of the apparatus and the leader of the PU, saying that we get up from our knees, everything is getting better. You don’t have to take the people for it, it will end badly.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: regin

Kremlin leeches flock in defense of the interests of the apparatus and the leader of the PU, saying that we get up from our knees, everything is getting better. You don’t have to count the people for it, it will end badly.

Vladimir Sergeevich! There is such a philosophical rule: if you don’t solve general issues, you won’t solve private ones either. Or: the forest is not visible behind the trees. Why am I doing this?
If you do not believe in the cause of your country (this is unlikely), in its leadership (are you calling for this?), In the commander, comrade, in yourself - you will not achieve victory in battle. I once said: PU must be treated from the standpoint of constructive criticism, and not naked cackling. And what he does a lot for the country, it’s only a spiteful person (or a neo-Trotsky provocateur!) Yes, he could have done more, but so far we have what we have.
And about nuts, no one bothers to talk: they are out of politics! But, as soon as you start looking for the reason why there are few nuts, and why they are crooked, "Questions of the Universe" immediately arise. And especially gifted people begin to glue political labels, not forgetting to anoint the powers that be with shit, including the "leader of the PU". You, apparently a deputy, since you speak so boldly on behalf of the people? No? Many troubles, no one to complain to? or cheap populism does not give rest? Decide and let us on the essence of the problem: concisely and clearly, with criticism and suggestions. OUR forum is not a political circle for UML graduates.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend. Just watered with information and gay pride parades.

[queen]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

or cheap populism doesn’t give you peace

Cheap just comes from the authorities, and those whom they cover on all channels of the television box.

[GP]

Quote: fedor

I agree with the queen. Our site is poor in professionalism. The interest of professionals in him dies away every month.

Quote: regin

An armament professional isn’t associated with politics, but here, if a specialist tells the truth about the case,Kremlin leeches fly in defense of the interests of the apparatus and the leader of PU, saying that we get up from our knees, everything is getting better. You don’t have to count people for it, it will end badly.

The atmosphere of disrespect and ignorance will push not only professionals.

[mirag2]

The French military-industrial complex is not in its infancy, the new "Leclerc" is worth what, and in general they often have interesting non-standard solutions in their equipment. And the project of a new submarine? Which can ride on the bottom. Even if it is irrational, it is interesting and original. And when such ideas appear - I have in the form of bold and original - so their generator is talented. Whoever it is - KB or individuals.
And they also need to test their weapons. So that they can be understood.

[Silkway0026]

The French in Mali: "Well done against the sheep, and against the young man and the sheep himself" ..... they tried to confront us on some kind of platform. Syria, for example.

[Lopatov]

The French in Mali helped the local army fight against the alliance of separatists and local Islamic extremists.
I don’t understand why you got fed up with them.

[sergo0000]

Quote: Spade

The French in Mali helped the local army fight against the alliance of separatists and local Islamic extremists.
I don’t understand why you got fed up with them.

Or maybe it’s not in vain !? Now the Malian army seems fed up with this help! Http: //www.warandpeace.ru/ru/reports/view/80680/

[Lopatov]

It is now. And then they helped.

[128mgb]

Guys, look at the First in Space, EEEh, what did we do without them !!!! (drunk)

[individual]

The company-developer "Sazhem" (Safran group) Philip Vodka-Gallien of high-precision weapons, I somehow have not met before, although the Russian ear is cut off by the combination of Philip Vodka. But not about that.
Our scientific companies are probably well-known Skolkovo, headed by billionaire V. Vikselberg (famous for giving almost a lemon of green to the leader of the "swamp" protests) and RosNano, headed by Chubais (the author of the voucher privatization), have created absolutely nothing. As an example of their activities, the division of budget money: In May 2013, the Skolkovo Foundation, after an audit by the Accounts Chamber, deprived more than 200 employees of bonuses and reprimanded the management.
»Chubais Nanomanagement: Accounts Chamber revealed RUSNANO's economic insolvency. In 2012 alone, the corporation refused to finance 35 projects, calculated net losses of 2,5 billion rubles, and prepared another 21,8 billion rubles of state money for write-off.
Draw conclusions. Can these Russian companies create anything?
Evil takes the hell out of this organization and these organizers!

[Lopatov]

That is the problem that new designs are being created. But almost do not enter the troops.

[tsiter]

I want to share with you my recent discovery, this is a service for finding any information about a person! As I saw, I looked and thought that it was all a divorce, but after a minute I was horrified to see all the information about myself, about my friends, about my boyfriend! There is literally everything there and it's all in the public domain! Take a look yourself = - hh.rf / geB

[Bort radist]

Quote: tsiter

I want to share with you my recent find

That's just this on the site was not enough, and now everything is like the "people"

[aviamed90]

"I want to share with you ..."

And climbed here, aspids! ...

[Pimply]

So they are a long time.

[sandrmur76]

Good night. After reading the article, one thought comes to my mind. We made new ammunition in Paris and rushed off to test. For them in Mali are not humans (cannon fodder). They are not interested in a landfill. They found a beggarly country and watered iron from heaven. How much they just threw off, I blow them away. Plus others. Justice 0. For lobbyists of arms it is time to issue a travel card to HELL. And lastly, some mats ..............

[Vtel]

They are training on blacks, and they will be used in Syria, Iran, and in the future also on us, Western crap. We need to go ahead on the floor at least.

[viktoxz]

people you have not heard that the entire database of Internet users has been leaked to the network with open access! There is all the information from personal photos and videos to personal correspondence and copies of documents. There you can of course delete your data if you do not want everyone to see them. Here is the link- http://addr.pk/a619a