Military Review

There is a hunt for "Sapsan"

189
There is a hunt for "Sapsan"

From time to time in Ukraine, from time to time, passions are raging - and not only in the media - around the fate of a promising and, apparently, necessary and important project for the defense capability of our country to create such a modern, high-precision weaponsas a multifunctional missile system (IFRC) "Sapsan".


Unfortunately, his path from design to practical implementation turned out to be similar to domestic roads - equally rich in potholes and potholes. And the attitude to the Sapsan project by the leaders of the Ministry of Defense (customer of military equipment and armaments) varies depending on a number of subjective factors (and especially the one who is at the helm of the military department) - from support to indifference and even rejection.

Nowadays, the future of the Sapsan is still hazy, and this is bound to disturb. We asked the head of the special programs department of the State Space Agency of Ukraine (SCAU), Yevhen MAKHONIN, to clarify the situation and comment on some of the nuances in this area.

Evgeny Ivanovich is an experienced specialist in missile technology control systems. At one time he served as a rocket officer - on the northern range in the Arkhangelsk region (now the Plesetsk cosmodrome), he made his way from lieutenant to colonel. And after the collapse of the Union, Makhonin deals with similar problems in independent Ukraine.

Road with potholes and potholes

- Imagine, please, Evgeny Ivanovich, our readers the future Sapsan missile system and at least briefly history his progress from design and first design studies to draft design

- First of all, I want to emphasize that modern high-precision weapons (one of the examples of which should be Sapsan IFRC) are non-nuclear factors in armed confrontations. Moreover, as the experience of recent local hostilities shows (for example, in 1999 during the military conflict in Yugoslavia), it is precisely the mass use of precision weapons that often achieve their goals even without the use of ground forces.

The project of the IFRS “Sapsan” was proposed by the specialists of the state enterprise “Design Bureau“ Yuzhnoye ”named after MK Yangel, who has extensive experience in creating combat missile systems of various types. And the Yuzhniy Machine-Building Plant named after Yu. A.M. Makarova ".

The fact that the APU needs highly effective non-nuclear deterrent forces was the first to be seriously talked about in 2007. But although about two years later, the then leadership of the state declared the importance of creating its own operational-tactical missile system, the matter did not go further than discussion of preliminary studies and endless approvals.

Probably, it should be said that Mikhail Yezhel turned out to be the only head of the military department who strongly supported the idea of ​​the expediency of creating, producing and equipping the army with promising precision weapons. President Viktor Yanukovych issued a decree in 2011, and at the end of the same year the government approved the state program for the creation of the Sapsan missile system.

In the Yuzhnoye design bureau, they have begun to design the IFPC. The Ministry of Defense acted as the customer (with financing for the development), and the State Specialized Aerospace University of Ukraine provided preparation for the production of Sapsanov at Yuzhmash.

All this will require $ 400 million. By the way, the creation of a Russian Iskander operational tactical missile system, close in technical characteristics to the Sapsan, cost about $ 1 billion, as reported in the press.

The sketch project "Sapsan" was created and protected by its developers in the MOU. It would seem that now there should be no doubt that the creation of such a missile complex is an issue solved.

However, later, ”continues Yevgeny Makhonin,“ when the Defense Ministry was headed by Dmitry Salamatin, the position of the military department in relation to the Sapsan, alas, changed to the diametrically opposite of the one that was at Yezhel. Reports began to appear, they say, in the Ministry of Defense doubt the feasibility of the creation, production and adoption of these IFRC into the armament of our army.

And so far, the Dnepropetrovsk creators of the Sapsan cannot move from an approved conceptual design to the development of a technical design of the missile complex, since there is no funding. On the technical design of the "Sapsan" need about 190 mln. and one year from the date of receipt of these funds from the customer to the performer.

The current position of the new Minister of Defense Pavel Lebedev regarding the Sapsan has not yet been officially announced. But time does not wait - and it remains less and less until 2015, when according to the program "Sapsans" should enter into service with the missile forces. But after technical design, it will be necessary to create prototypes in the metal, to test them, and then to launch mass production and ensure the delivery of the complexes to the troops. Moreover, 2015 is not named accidentally. The fact is that by 2015 — 2016's. the technical resource of the Tochka-U operational tactical complexes currently in service with our missile forces is exhausted. And on their own, Ukrainian enterprises cannot extend the resource of this aging technology even from Soviet manufacture.

IFRC: speed, accuracy, efficiency


“The Sapsan complex will have a range of firing sufficiently high for this class of weapons (approximately 300 km), which will allow the use of such IFRC from the depth of its own troops,” says Yevgeny Makhonin. - This fact, together with the short time spent at the launch position of the self-propelled launcher (based on the KrAZ chassis) and its high mobility, makes the complex low-vulnerable for the enemy. And the accuracy of striking "Sapsan" - a few meters. All this will be achieved by a combination of the inertial guidance system equipped with a laser gyro and satellite navigation system provided for in a rocket, and in the further development of the complex - an optical or radar homing head.

The missiles used in this complex can be equipped with different warheads - high-explosive, penetrating, cluster and others. At the same time, the multifunctional capacity of the Sapsan IFRC will be provided by using transport-launch containers with different missiles placed on the basic launcher — either tactical or tactical, and then volley-fire missile systems.

High technologies, laid in the "Sapsan" by its developers, allow missiles to successfully overcome the most advanced missile defense system of the enemy. On the entire flight path of the rockets fired by the Sapsan, they are controlled using aerodynamic and gas-dynamic control surfaces. And the high speed of the flight and the fact that the missiles are scheduled to be manufactured using Stealth technology (and they will have a small effective dispersion surface), reduces the likelihood of anti-missile attacks. And the flight paths of such ballistic missiles are difficult to predict for the enemy. After all, immediately after the launch, and during the approach to the target, a rocket fired from the Sapsan will be able to maneuver intensively. In addition, most of the flight path will take place at high altitudes, which also reduces the likelihood of damage.

As you can see, the characteristics of the Sapsan IFRC correspond to the world level of similar in designation of foreign missile systems.

By the way, Israeli experts - recognized experts in the creation of high-precision weapons-new products - have relied in this area on the ballistic (airballistic) complex with the LORA (OTRK) rocket, and moreover in the transport-launch container. This ensures the safety of the rocket, and reducing its mass, and increasing the combat readiness of the complex, and simplifying the operations of transportation, installation and preparation for launch.

Who benefits from a "winged" alternative

- However, the Sapsan has not only supporters, but also opponents. The latter are trying to sow doubts about the advantages of the IFPC and propose the creation of cruise missiles in Ukraine.

“Indeed, recently there have been publications in the media, whose authors are trying to present themselves as objective and independent experts, and comparing the Sapsan IFRC and cruise missiles, they are trying to assert that, according to the“ efficiency-cost ”ratio, to bet on a deterrence weapon in the form of domestically produced cruise missiles.

But it’s simply incorrect for this indicator to compare different types of missile weapons - ballistic missiles (namely, they will be used in the Sapsan IFRC) and cruise missiles. This is about the same as if in the military aviation tried to compare the ratio of "efficiency - cost", say, a fighter with a bomber.

Yes, in Ukraine there are some developments for cruise missiles as a deterrent weapon. However, on the basis of these developments and with the available scientific, technical, technological and production potential, you can only create a cruise missile of yesterday, flying at medium altitudes (200 — 300 — 500 — 1000 m) and with subsonic speeds.

The technology of creating cruise missiles capable of flying, bending around the terrain of the earth’s surface, at ultra-low altitudes - 50 m and even lower (due to which radars and other missile defense systems do not fix it), while developing supersonic speeds, now only the US and Russia have . In Ukraine, such high technologies are now absent, and their creation would require considerable time and very substantial financial costs, which is unrealistic in the current economic situation.

And cruise missiles, flying at medium altitudes at the speed of a passenger airliner, are not only vulnerable to missile defense systems, they are easily hit by anti-aircraft missile systems, including portable missiles (MANPADS), which are fired from the shoulder, and they are armed with armies most countries.

High efficiency, "Sapsan" confirms, in particular, the time of readiness of this complex for a rocket launch is just a few minutes. For comparison: in the Russian Iskander complex, the indicator of readiness for launch is substantially greater - 15 — 20 minutes. In addition, the time the missile approaches the Ukrainian IFPC will be an order of magnitude shorter than the cruise missiles that are proposed to be built (20 — 30 min.). This is more than enough for adequate opposition from missile defense systems.

As for the cost, it is worth recalling that, for example, only one Indo-Russian guided missile "BrahMos" (its land version - with the possibility of hitting ground targets), the development of which is a continuation of the Russian cruise missile "Yakhont", costs $ 20 million.

- And how does the General Staff of its armed forces react to the situation around the creation of high-precision weapons in Ukraine?

“The General Staff reacts, unfortunately, as“ effectively ”as the“ independent experts ”think in their publications, - Yevgeny Ivanovich answers. - He even agrees to implement the idea of ​​creating in our country an operational-tactical missile system based on C-300 anti-aircraft missile systems, which have already worked out their resources. And it does not take into account that the tactical-technical characteristics of such a complex with such a "refinement" will be far from foreign models of modern operational-tactical missile systems. And we will not sell such obsolete complexes to anyone.

It is clear that in conditions of an extremely limited defense budget in our country, competition between defense enterprises is intensifying. For the "victory" in such a tough struggle all sorts of means are used. Moreover, such lobbying activities are particularly acute during the formation of the defense budget at the beginning of the year.

Indeed, it cannot be ruled out that in “objective” publications that appeared at such a time, discrediting some developments and, on the contrary, promoting other types of weapons and military equipment, some “experts” simply defend the interests of their customers, - concluded Yevgeny Makhonin .
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  1. Botanologist
    Botanologist 18 March 2013 17: 28
    19
    It seems that drank dough on Sapsan is preparing such that the women Taburetkina nervously smoke.
    1. ShturmKGB
      ShturmKGB 18 March 2013 17: 41
      +2
      Iskander's competitor? Only his parameters are slightly better ...
      1. Kyrgyz
        Kyrgyz 18 March 2013 19: 15
        34
        ShturmKGB
        Iskander's competitor? Only his parameters are slightly better ...

        It has one significant drawback - it does not
        1. domokl
          domokl 18 March 2013 20: 08
          +5
          In general, for some reason, I have the feeling that Ukraine is becoming a cliff of ideas, but in reality old stuff is being modernized ...
          1. Dilshat
            Dilshat 18 March 2013 23: 37
            +3
            It only shows that Ukraine and Russia look separately as two torn pieces. There will be no alternative to NATO and there will be no Slavic world.
        2. cherkas.oe
          cherkas.oe 18 March 2013 20: 37
          +4
          Quote: Kyrgyz
          It has one significant drawback - it does not

          And it won't. Although I as an ethnic x = o = x = l = y, it is very bitter to write this way. The whole article is a solid hypothesis, "If only, but if only." Apparently, the scientific and technological potential of Ukraine is not even at the limit, it does not exist, and talking about draft designs that supposedly could have been just not serious and humiliating.
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 18 March 2013 20: 44
            14
            Unfortunately, this will be so until Russia and Ukraine unite. We have nothing to share, but we can create a lot of things. And if it’s also with the Belarusians ... ahem, by the 50 year we’ll build chorella plantations on Mars.
          2. Alexander D.
            Alexander D. 18 March 2013 21: 40
            12
            In Ukraine, it is precisely the scientific potential that is visible - scientists without a state. support and financial investments (unlike Russia and the USA) are developing new equipment and trying to introduce it into production: An-70/72/74/140/148/158/168 series aircraft; armored vehicles - BM Oplot, BTR-4 (4-MV), BMPT-64; ATGM Skif, air defense system Dnieper, high-precision Combat, Flower Garden, etc. etc.
            There is no financial opportunity to launch all this in a series - yes! But constantly trying to develop something new and in every possible way to modernize the old - this is an indicator of scientific potential!
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 18 March 2013 21: 50
              +1
              Yes, but these are separate instances, prototypes! How long will they (the scientists) stretch this way?
              1. Alexander D.
                Alexander D. 18 March 2013 21: 52
                +9
                I’m saying that there is no money to put into production this one thing, and there is no scientific and technical potential, according to the statements of some comrades, this is quite another. In Ukraine there is no money for mass production - a poor country. But there are enough talented scientists ... for now.
                1. kontrol
                  kontrol 18 March 2013 23: 43
                  +3
                  not a poor country, do not humiliate Ukraine. Ukraine is our kin. but who rules the country is a big question. Ukrainians of all Ukraine, join Russia!
            2. revnagan
              revnagan 18 March 2013 22: 11
              0
              Quote: Alexander D.
              There is no financial opportunity to launch all this in a series - yes!

              And it will not. A small series, for myself, is not profitable, very expensive. A large series-for sale-the initial "installment" is very large, the economy will not pull. So we got on our own.
              1. Alexander D.
                Alexander D. 18 March 2013 22: 19
                +4
                If something is invented, it means that scientists still have hope. And if there is hope, then they will still be overcome. With the organization of such a structure as Ukroboronprom, many enterprises in Ukraine have gotten out of the minuses and now I am setting up production processes - the Izyum Instrument-Making Plant, the Shostka State-owned Zvezda Plant, NPK Iskra, etc. etc.
            3. leon-iv
              leon-iv 18 March 2013 22: 39
              +4
              Gyyyy
              серии Ан-70/72/74/140/148/158/168

              You take an interest in how many of our komplektuhi di there and projects it comes from the USSR


              BM Oplot

              T-80UD
              BTR-4 (4-MV)

              Well done here.
              BMPT-64

              XM
              ATGM Skiff

              extremely modest against the background of cornets
              ZRK Dnipro

              while current renders
              Combat, Flower Garden, etc.
              finished Invar

              but to write about our analogues is lazy.
              All that type Ukrainian comes from the USSR
              Can we talk about the fleet and aviation?
              1. Alexander D.
                Alexander D. 18 March 2013 23: 01
                +5
                I did not say that there are no scientific developments in Russia. I said that Ukraine is full of them.
                An is a joint production (no one disputes), and the developer of Antonov Design Bureau is Kiev, Ukraine.
                T-80UD (Birch) - Kharkov development, which was redone with the T-80, but read carefully and look in Yu-Tube, where did the T-80 come from (everything except the engine and the chassis is all from the T-64).
                ATGM Skiff is modest against the background of ATGM Cornet, but is exported. You can look at the air defense systems Dnipro on the website of Ukrspetsexport. By your logic, Krasnopol is also a dopped Invar.
                Everything that type Ukrainian and type Russian comes from the USSR. So far, they have not invented anything supernova in Ukraine or in Russia - all new developments are modernization or evolution of the Soviet ones!
              2. black_eagle
                black_eagle 19 March 2013 09: 05
                +2
                Quote: leon-iv
                but to write about our analogues is lazy.

                Cornet - years of development 1988
                T-90 is T-72
                From airplanes:
                PAK FA - never a fighting vehicle
                Su-35S and Su-34 are all the same Su-27
                Ka-52 is a modification of the Ka-50 - the first flight in 1982
                Mi-28 - also 1982
                Your picture is more fun of course, but not 100% all modern developments
              3. anton107798
                anton107798 19 March 2013 23: 06
                +1
                and what is the fleet? 4 corvettes laid and they are not sovetskogo class! aviation? Well, let's talk ... do you have medium-range planes? The budget doesn’t count ... no, but we have both in the development and in production and sale, transport aviation is also there.
            4. cherkas.oe
              cherkas.oe 19 March 2013 00: 40
              +4
              Quote: Alexander D.
              - This is an indicator of scientific potential!

              This is an indicator that older people who were born, raised and trained in the USSR, come up with the last effort to assemble and assemble on their knees that they would retire in five years and they would leave without seeing any prospects and tired of hopelessness.
            5. ikrut
              ikrut 20 March 2013 03: 10
              +1
              Quote: Alexander D.
              constantly trying to develop something new and in every possible way to modernize the old - this is an indicator of scientific potential!

              Do not indulge yourself with illusions. I will not talk about aviation and armored vehicles - let those who have anything to do with this say - but in terms of rocketry, the point of no return has already been passed. IMHO. I know this firsthand. For 10 years he worked at NPO Yuzhnoye at one time. I even managed the technology department. Now I often communicate with former and current employees. Sad and bitter. There is no "potential" when compared, say. since the 80s. What's left is just a good feeding trough for a small number of crooks and unemployment benefits for the rest.
          3. Zubr
            Zubr 18 March 2013 23: 30
            +1
            Well DUK with such developments, it is high time to cooperate with Russia, a lot and well .... is it possible that the Dnepropetrovsk Design Bureau was completely smeared?
        3. Sirocco
          Sirocco 19 March 2013 02: 06
          0
          I’m afraid he has no prospects, as some engineers of the Design Bureau of the South, have recently gone on business trips to the USA, why would this be? So I have a question.
        4. Krilion
          Krilion 19 March 2013 08: 22
          +2
          And the accuracy of the Sapsan strike is a few meters. All this will be achieved by a combination of the inertial guidance system provided in the rocket, equipped with a laser gyroscope, and satellite navigation systems,


          It seems to me that without owning your own satellite navigation system, to rely on someone else’s navigation system to reckon during a hostilities - pure adventure ... or stupidity ....
      2. FIMUK
        FIMUK 18 March 2013 19: 22
        -5
        those. SS 20 could be brought down with a pin?
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 18 March 2013 19: 30
          +5
          At the start of an ICBM and if Shilka is within 2 km - it is possible. If you have time.
          1. Sirocco
            Sirocco 19 March 2013 02: 08
            +5
            Quote: Wedmak
            If you have time.

            Keyword laughing
      3. evil hamster
        evil hamster 18 March 2013 19: 40
        +1
        Oga is such a powerful competitor. One complex was developed, tested (by dozens of test launches), goes into service and was used in a real conflict. The second has passed the stage of the preliminary design, and maybe even a technical project will be, if they find money, well, hedgehog is clear there are no analogs in the world where is there any "Iskander"
        1. Conepatus
          Conepatus 18 March 2013 19: 46
          -1
          And can you give more details in which real conflict Iskander was awarded?
          By the way, the author of the article has nothing to do with Ukraine. (This is in case that the howl will start again about the Ukrainians praising their weapons)
          1. evil hamster
            evil hamster 18 March 2013 19: 53
            +5
            In conflict 08.08.08
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 18 March 2013 19: 59
              +4
              There is an opinion that they were not there. There was Tochka-U.
              1. evil hamster
                evil hamster 18 March 2013 20: 35
                +3
                The use of Iskander on objects in Georgia is a documented fact (there is a photo of rocket debris), which however does not negate the fact that there are massively used Points-U, which there are numerous photos and video evidence.
            2. Conepatus
              Conepatus 18 March 2013 20: 28
              +4
              Uh-huh. There, in general, "Satan" was shot, in one gulp, laughing
              1. evil hamster
                evil hamster 18 March 2013 20: 36
                +1
                Is this what it is for?
                1. Conepatus
                  Conepatus 18 March 2013 20: 42
                  +3
                  What kind of "Iskander" is in that conflict? What is there to shoot at? The point of wasting a new missile when you can shoot "Tochka-U" The result is the same, but cheaper. Amers dispose of their old stuff in every conflict.
                  Another "duck" of the media, nothing more.
                  1. evil hamster
                    evil hamster 18 March 2013 20: 54
                    +1
                    http://dimmi-tomsk.livejournal.com/70230.html
                    As you can see, the facts contradict your unconditionally extremely authoritative and knowledgeable opinion
                    1. Sirocco
                      Sirocco 19 March 2013 02: 19
                      +2
                      I followed the link. I watched the video, I didn’t understand one, where is the destruction after hitting such POWERFUL weapons? where is the funnel? After using this product, the sheer destruction will be within a radius of 500 meters. It was believed that all these rocket remains were brought and laid out for TV.
                      1. evil hamster
                        evil hamster 19 March 2013 11: 36
                        0
                        In the context of our conversation, this does not matter. Iskander was used, but Georgians dragged fragments there or not, it doesn’t matter.
                      2. Windbreak
                        Windbreak 19 March 2013 12: 10
                        0
                        Quote: Sirocco
                        After using this product, the sheer destruction will be in a radius of 500 meters
                        from 480 kilogram warheads?
                      3. Wedmak
                        Wedmak 19 March 2013 12: 16
                        0
                        If warhead cassette - easy. Yes, and from the PF will fall, it will not seem enough.
                2. xtur
                  xtur 18 March 2013 21: 15
                  0
                  why not test the weapon in real combat conditions?
            3. GELEZNII_KAPUT
              GELEZNII_KAPUT 19 March 2013 07: 18
              +1
              Satan, in one gulp ?! So it would get to the second Georgia !!! laughing
        2. cherkas.oe
          cherkas.oe 18 March 2013 21: 04
          +6
          Quote: Conepatus
          (this is in case that a howl will start again about the Ukrainians praising their weapons)

          Which weapon is respected? I do not see the subject of praise.
          1. Conepatus
            Conepatus 18 March 2013 22: 40
            +4
            On the site with enviable regularity there are articles like "Stronghold is the best tank in the world" or about "Super tank Yatagan" The authors of these epics are residents of Russia. And then a shit starts, about cunning hoes, when you pay for gas, traitors, etc., etc. This article is from the same category. It was written in Russia and with only one purpose, to further embarrass Russians and Ukrainians.
            1. Alexander D.
              Alexander D. 18 March 2013 23: 06
              0
              The article was written with the aim of acquainting readers of Russian blogs with new developments in other countries. It was in Soviet times that people were only told about "our" developments and inventions, and now they provide you with information for thought, so that you can compare and form your opinion where what is better.
            2. Dilshat
              Dilshat 18 March 2013 23: 42
              0
              On the site with enviable regularity there are articles like "Stronghold is the best tank in the world" or about "Super tank Yatagan" The authors of these epics are residents of Russia. And then a shit starts, about cunning hoes, when you pay for gas, traitors, etc., etc. This article is from the same category. It was written in Russia and with only one purpose, to further embarrass Russians and Ukrainians. -----] Put the pluses, it is.
            3. Corneli
              Corneli 19 March 2013 06: 46
              +1
              Quote: Conepatus
              On the site with enviable regularity there are articles like "Stronghold is the best tank in the world" or about "Super tank Yatagan" The authors of these epics are residents of Russia. And then a shit starts, about cunning hoes, when you pay for gas, traitors, etc., etc. This article is from the same category.

              By the way, yes ... I noticed this for a long time ... And okay, there was just a description of the technique that was sane ... usually: "the most super-cool new-fancy" And add-ons are necessary: ​​"The Russian analogue of this MIRACLE is old and finally g."
              Xs where such articles are searched for or who writes them. But I really believe that there are those interested in such provocations. Especially when in the comments, under these "pearls", a couple of tough ukranophobes suddenly appear and they troll their nonsense sho mad (
    2. Yarbay
      Yarbay 19 March 2013 10: 30
      0
      ShturmKGB

      Iskander's competitor? Only his parameters are slightly better ..


      What is better ??


      *** High efficiency, “Sapsana” is confirmed, in particular, by the time the complex is ready for missile launch - it's just a few minutes. For comparison: the Russian Iskander complex has an indicator of readiness for launch withSignificantly larger - 15-20 minutes*** -What is the difference between a few minutes from 15-20 and ???
      1. Hoist
        Hoist 20 March 2013 04: 24
        0
        In general, more accurate Iskander data are as follows:
        "Preparation time for launch from the march - 16 min.
        Preparation time for launch from readiness No. 1 (from a stationary position to position, after georeferencing) - 4 minutes "

        Taken from here http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-185.html
        According to the link in my opinion the most comprehensive information on Iskander.
    3. ikrut
      ikrut 20 March 2013 03: 02
      +1
      ShturmKGB

      Iskander's competitor? Only his parameters are slightly better ...

      All his "parameters" are only on paper and in the heads of officials. It does not exist, and most likely it will not. Design Bureau Yuzhnoye is no longer able to create something worthy. Lives at the expense of the Soviet "Zenith". And even then, they are already being knocked down at the Sea Launch. The branch technological institute has practically died and lives off the rent of space. And the once famous Yuzhmash itself barely works THREE days a week today. Accession to the EU will finally bury the once best military missile school and production of the USSR. And no gap is visible. Alas.
  2. vilenich
    vilenich 19 March 2013 00: 34
    0
    Quote: Botanologist
    It seems that drank dough on Sapsan is preparing such that the women Taburetkina nervously smoke.

    Why is it "preparing"? They have been sawing to their full height and not for the first year! Half funded, but nothing at all!
  • Cpa
    Cpa 18 March 2013 17: 32
    0
    Peregrine Falcon is good, but on whose elemental base is electronics and whose software? Whose whose wassat - Mexican or something laughing
    It doesn’t turn out that, having bought such a complex, in case of war the general will launch this missile in his operational control post?
    1. Alexander D.
      Alexander D. 18 March 2013 23: 08
      +2
      Sapsan is developing the same design bureau as the R-36M. So far, during the tests, not a single rocket flew into its control gear! bully
      1. Cpa
        Cpa 19 March 2013 08: 05
        0
        If there are Taiwanese or American microcircuits, then the result will be different from the tests. We already bought Israeli UAVs, near special facilities they lost control and started circling over the ban. Coincidence? You will be surprised, but our design bureaus are no longer a guarantee against bookmarks. fact. Read on what basis our ESU TK is done, you will be surprised at the information.
  • wax
    wax 18 March 2013 17: 38
    +3
    It seems that the process of arming the Ukrainian Armed Forces with increasingly simpler and cheaper weapons is gaining momentum.
  • djon3volta
    djon3volta 18 March 2013 17: 38
    0
    is it like our Escander or Point-U?
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 18 March 2013 18: 46
      +9
      Quote: djon3volta
      is it like our Escander or Point-U?


      The correct name is OTRK Iskander. Sapsan is the MLRS, TRK and OTRK in one bottle. According to the idea, it should have eight tactical missiles and two operational tactical missiles. The launch of testing of these weapons was planned at the turn of 2012–13, and the active equipment of the Armed Forces - from 2015.
      "It is assumed that the missile range of the complex will be up to 280 km. In addition, the task is to create a reconnaissance and command and control system for transmitting information about the enemy in real time ” - these words belong to the director of the department of development and procurement of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine Volodymyr Grek. At the same time, the task posed to the developers of the IFRC is to achieve hit accuracy measured in meters.
      The declared range allows you to sell the complex abroad, since it does not fall under the contract of the Republic of Vietnam. Iskander-E going for export has the same range.
      Tests postponed to 2015... We can only wish good luck to the Yuzhnoye design bureau and sufficient funding for the project.
      1. Alexander D.
        Alexander D. 18 March 2013 23: 12
        +1
        Peregrine Falcon is not at all MLRS. Sapsan is an IFRC - a multifunctional missile system. Initially, they planned to make it universal: to shoot at ground, surface and air targets. But then they realized that they had overestimated the forces, and at the moment the main emphasis is on the operational tactical missile system.
      2. vilenich
        vilenich 19 March 2013 00: 44
        0
        Quote: Ascetic
        these words belong to the director of the development and procurement department of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine Volodymyr Grek.

        Where is he now? In the same place as the Peregrine Falcons ...
  • sergey32
    sergey32 18 March 2013 17: 41
    +4
    And you want it, and it pricks ... It is time for Ukraine to beat to some coast. Together, it’s easier to cultivate the land with a tractor than to each one to cultivate a garden with a hoe. For twenty years, Ukrainians have been frantically trying to keep up with Russia in all respects, but is it necessary? It’s more fun together.
    1. Conepatus
      Conepatus 18 March 2013 19: 48
      +1
      And what sense? To which coast do not stick, anyway they will clean up to a goal
      1. morpex
        morpex 18 March 2013 19: 59
        12
        Quote: Conepatus
        And what sense? To which coast do not stick, anyway they will clean up to a goal

        Do not worry! After the Demagogue, the Redhead, the Beekeeper, and Zek, there’s nothing to clean ... Since they cleaned their people, even Hitler didn’t succeed ...
        1. cherkas.oe
          cherkas.oe 18 March 2013 21: 22
          +1
          Quote: morpex
          ..Since they cleaned their people, even Hitler did not succeed ...

          Hello Valera, again annealing to a point.
          1. morpex
            morpex 18 March 2013 21: 41
            +1
            Quote: cherkas.oe
            Hello Valera,

            Hi Oleg. Duc, that is, that is. Rob-s!
      2. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe 18 March 2013 21: 20
        +4
        Quote: Conepatus
        And what sense? To which coast do not stick, anyway they will clean up to a goal

        And for this, you need not to be nailed like a quicksand to the shore, but to knock on the gate, with a full understanding of what you are doing, and say: "Brother, I thought well here and decided, it's enough for me to hang out like shit in an ice hole, I want with you continue to live ".
        1. Conepatus
          Conepatus 18 March 2013 21: 42
          +1
          Yeah. Only for shared housing, you have to rely on something to pay. So they’ll rip off a loved one
          1. Ascetic
            Ascetic 18 March 2013 22: 48
            +5
            Quote: Conepatus
            Yeah. Only for shared housing, you have to rely on something to pay. So they’ll rip off a loved one


            Quiet Ukrainian night, but the fat must be hidden .. taken away smile
          2. cherkas.oe
            cherkas.oe 18 March 2013 23: 31
            +4
            Quote: Conepatus
            . Only for shared housing, than to rely on having to reckon. So they’ll rip off a loved one

            Well, please answer that Ukraine was taken away when it was part of the USSR. She only acquired science, industry, etc. from cohabitation. , what she is now gradually and inexorably losing.
            1. Conepatus
              Conepatus 19 March 2013 00: 15
              0
              Just do not compare with the Union. Russia is not an alliance. And there were no oligarchs during the union. But the fact that in the event of a union Ukraine will lose tank construction, rocket science, and the aviation industry is like a grandmother.
              1. ATATA
                ATATA 19 March 2013 06: 53
                +1
                Quote: Conepatus
                But the fact that in the event of a unification, Ukraine will lose tank engineering, rocket science, and the aviation industry — it’s not like going to a grandmother.
                So you yourself lose! All that Ukraine inherited from the Union (read Russia) Ukraine will lose. Such complex scientific and industrial complexes of the military-industrial complex should not only carry out semi-funded developments, they must mass-produce them, otherwise degradation is not inevitable. Do you have grandmas for new technological equipment? Open your eyes Ukraine without Russia will be where it was until 1654! In poverty, devastation and anarchy.
            2. ATATA
              ATATA 19 March 2013 10: 42
              -1
              [quote = cherkas.oe] Well, please answer that Ukraine was taken away when it was part of the USSR. [/ quote]
              Not a sport with Svidomo. They have nothing to compare. In 1989, he came to Belgorod-Dniester from Tula for a vacation, went to the department store, his eyes ran up on the shelves: there are kohinor pencils (a rarity at that time), jeans, sneakers, portable TVs, that's all! In the Tula department store with a rolling ball. Everyone was torn from the Russian peasant and thrown to the outskirts, so that they would be happy !. And anyway, give them independence anyway, you see, or Russia is robbing and oppressing them.
              [quote = cherkas.oe]
              Do not explain to them anything, let them plunge into Bulgarian poverty and squalor. I’ll take my relatives out and spit on this territory infected with idiocy.
      3. Dilshat
        Dilshat 18 March 2013 23: 49
        0
        You already know how to clean the west 17-21g, 41-45g. Technologies are being improved. Now you can clean up without declaring war.
  • sedoii
    sedoii 18 March 2013 17: 42
    +3
    It's simple, Ukraine wants to create its own Iskanders, and the West is allergic to them. So they pull the strings.
  • avt
    avt 18 March 2013 17: 43
    14
    Super corvette, Scimitar is cooler than Bastion, now here is Peregrine Falcon. Like, they’re cool and they can do everything, but in reality it looks like attempts to stand in a row of super powers. After what happened in Ukraine during the USSR and how this inheritance was squandered in the 90s, it looks frankly sorry. negative Only for one dismantled Ulyanovsk must be suspended by the eggs.
    1. Conepatus
      Conepatus 18 March 2013 19: 51
      -2
      Ukraine offered Russia to finance the completion of "Varyag" and "Ulyanovsk"
      Russia refused. And what did Ukraine need to do according to you?
      1. Suhov
        Suhov 18 March 2013 21: 25
        0
        Quote: Conepatus
        Ukraine offered Russia to finance the completion of "Varyag" and "Ulyanovsk"

        Money is offered when it is. When there is no money, they are asked.
        I translate from Russian into Russian ::
        Ukraine offered Russia money to complete the Varyag and Ulyanovsk. Russia refused. And what did Ukraine have to do in your opinion?
        Was that so?
    2. morpex
      morpex 18 March 2013 20: 08
      +4
      Quote: avt
      Like cool and everyone can

      Not dust .. They can. Even as they can! But the current government doesn’t need it. The cost of the army is less than the cops ..

      Quote: avt
      Only for one dismantled Ulyanovsk must be suspended by the eggs.

      I agree. Down with my head ...
    3. xtur
      xtur 18 March 2013 21: 18
      +1
      maybe they’re cool, maybe they can realize everything they promise ... But there is no money, and there won’t be. Only Russia has money for the army
  • Suhov
    Suhov 18 March 2013 17: 54
    +3
    All this will require $ 400 million. By the way, the creation of a Russian Iskander operational tactical missile system, close in technical characteristics to the Sapsan, cost about $ 1 billion, as reported in the press.

    You are planning $ 400 million. And how much it will cost - time will tell.
  • VadimSt
    VadimSt 18 March 2013 18: 21
    +3
    At the level of the layman, the following chain of phrases is striking: - "draft design", "the characteristics of the Sapsan IFRK correspond to the world level", "high efficiency," Sapsana "confirms", ......

    That is, in fact, there is only an initial "paper" project, there is no funding for the project, not to mention prototypes, tests, etc., and such loud conclusions about compliance with the best world, efficiency and deployment time.

    I do not know if this approach will succeed in the Ukrainian Iskander, but the fact that the state continues to destroy the scientific potential of Ukraine is a fact.
  • Wedmak
    Wedmak 18 March 2013 18: 22
    +2
    They put everything together ... The complex is only on paper, and it is already cooler than Iskander and cheaper than Bramos! Even the Kyrgyz Republic is not suitable for him ... How can one even compare such different projects? O Point-U, a direct analogue, nothing at all ... to see and are not close competitors ... laughing
    Guys, you first deal with life in your own country, then stop under Europe, then under the USA it falls, and then compare your paper complexes with our iron ones. And then you have to eat one fat, if it stays of course ...
    PS This is not slander, this is a desire to first improve the lives of people, and then create means of destruction and brag about them.
    1. plotnikov561956
      plotnikov561956 18 March 2013 18: 37
      +3
      If in summer they fall under Europe ... there will be peregrine falcons and crows .. Paper planes fly .. since childhood I know ... did everything ..
      1. NOBODY EXCEPT US
        NOBODY EXCEPT US 18 March 2013 20: 27
        0
        Lie down, respect the great and mighty .....
        1. cherkas.oe
          cherkas.oe 18 March 2013 23: 54
          0
          Quote: NOBODY BUT US
          Lie down, respect the great and mighty .....

          Even so, even so, anyway back to the EU.
      2. domokl
        domokl 18 March 2013 20: 33
        +2
        Quote: plotnikov561956
        If they fall under Europe in the summer ... there will be peregrine falcons and crows .. Paper planes fly .. since childhood I know ... they did everything.
        They won’t have time by the summer .. But in a year or two it’s completely .. An agreement on NATO standards has been signed. The Army will be re-equipped on the NATO model.
        And they are always arming themselves with the weapons that the ally owns. Although Ukraine will now say that this is a military trick, in which case to collect the cartridges and shells of the enemy and use
    2. Kaa
      Kaa 18 March 2013 21: 35
      +4
      Quote: Wedmak
      The complex is only on paper, and already cooler than Iskander and cheaper than Bramos!

      Well, not really, just refinement of Soviet ideas again:
      "Rocket complex" Sapsan ":
      The design is a classic solid-fuel rocket with aerodynamic stabilizers.
      The device of the rocket complex "Thunder" (UKRSPETSEXPORT booklet, processed).
      The control and guidance system is an inertial control system with the possibility of introducing corrections from one or another homing system (radar, optical). Shooting is done on targets. with known coordinates.
      The engine is a solid propellant rocket motor with a traction shutoff system and a rotary nozzle.
      Missile performance characteristics: TPK length - 7.2 m TPK diameter - 1 m Rocket diameter - 0.8 m
      Weight TPK with a rocket - 3500 kg Weight of a rocket - 2500 kg Weight warhead - 480 kg
      Operating range: - 80 - 290 km ("Thunder") - 50 - 280 km KVO - 2 - 200 m
      Flight speed - 1100-1300 m / s; Preparation time for launch - 2 - 20 min
      Operating temperature of the complex - from -40 to +50 degrees C.
      Types of warheads: a variety of types of military equipment are declared in advertising booklets.
      - penetrating high explosive warhead;
      - high-explosive fragmentation warheads;
      - cassette warhead, lesion area of ​​about 10000 square meters;
      Composition of the battery of the complex: as agreed with the customer, it can vary - the typical composition is lower
      - a mobile command post;
      - a source data preparation machine for the guidance system;
      - transport and loading machine;
      - geodetic support machine;
      - machine maintenance;
      - a machine for ensuring combat alert;
      - 2-3 self-propelled launchers;
      "Thunder" is a complex with OTP offered for export by "Ukrspetsexport" in the 1990s. The development was carried out by KB "Yuzhnoye", Dnepropetrovsk. Most likely, the project formed the basis for the development of the Sapsan complex.
      http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-597.html
      http://kotobood.livejournal.com,
      http://www.grani.kiev.ua/, Рисунок - ракета "Гром"
  • jagdpanzer
    jagdpanzer 18 March 2013 19: 12
    +4
    again the picks went .. be condescending rejoice that among the Slavs and not among the monkeys any planned
  • krasin
    krasin 18 March 2013 19: 37
    +4
    Quote: Hutsul
    Hutsul Today, 17:55 ↑ -13 

    Hutsul Today, 17:55 ↑ -13
    March 13 registration and - all grandfathers already got it. Our shoot has ripened everywhere, or else it will be !!!
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 18 March 2013 19: 41
      +2
      Yes, I didn’t get it yet .... there are few adequate arguments from him, it’s not even interesting.
  • Ruslan_F38
    Ruslan_F38 18 March 2013 19: 43
    +1
    Quote: Hutsul
    Quote: Htuek
    And then you want all the free rein as in the Union, but you do not want to work physically for your well-being.

    GUTSULU. Actually, it's not worth projecting your reality on the outside world. If you are a parasite, these are your problems; they do not interest me. As for liberalism, take the trouble to find out the meaning of the word, well, for starters. Then maybe we'll talk, although I'm not sure you have intelligence at the level of macaque - Rhesus.

    Why are you so angry? Why do you hate Russia so much? Our peoples have one blood flowing. We must be for each other, against the USA, and not against each other! NATO, Europe, USA - this is not our way. Understand both Russia and Ukraine will always be strangers there! Well, is it really incomprehensible?
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 18 March 2013 19: 44
    +4
    Let's be honest.
    Ukrainian developers are able to create the best OTP in the world. Like the best tank in the world. Like the best armored personnel carrier in the world.
    In Russia, the situation is similar. Developers can do anything.

    But here a problem arises from a completely different sphere, from the financial one. Everything rests not on the ability of developers, but on the capabilities of the customer.

    So butt on a topic whose developers are cooler somewhat stupid. Neither in Russia nor in Ukraine do they work fully.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 18 March 2013 19: 56
      +1
      And who argues what they are capable of? They argue that they compare the complex drawn on paper with the complex in iron. Also in superlatives. And as we all know, the fact that on paper embodied in iron is not a fact that it will work as it is written. Examples are mass.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 18 March 2013 20: 51
        +3
        Ukraine, as a customer, cannot afford a complex superior to Iskander. We ourselves can hardly pull it - pay attention to the pace of its delivery to the troops.
        In addition, the export potential of such weapons is minimal. Too many restrictions, both external and intrinsic.
      2. Suhov
        Suhov 18 March 2013 22: 17
        0
        Quote: Wedmak
        They argue that they compare the complex drawn on paper with the complex in iron.

        Approved!
    2. morpex
      morpex 18 March 2013 23: 44
      +1
      Quote: Spade
      Let's be honest.
      Ukrainian developers are able to create the best OTP in the world. Like the best tank in the world. Like the best armored personnel carrier in the world.
      In Russia, the situation is similar. Developers can do anything.

      But here a problem arises from a completely different sphere, from the financial one. Everything rests not on the ability of developers, but on the capabilities of the customer.

      So butt on a topic whose developers are cooler somewhat stupid. Neither in Russia nor in Ukraine do they work fully.

      Bravo Lopatov !!! This is one hundred percent truth! 5 +!
  • Ruslan_F38
    Ruslan_F38 18 March 2013 19: 49
    +4
    Quote: Hutsul
    You really let yourself down for eggs for an aircraft-carrying cruiser sold to India, for cut atamarines, for sold uranium reserves, more precisely given to a probable enemy, more precisely to an ally, you have more sins. And how mother squandered Russia - do not worry!
    Although Ukraine is trying to become a superpower, Russia does not want to do that either. Do you know the latest news? The President of the Russian Federation held an emergency meeting of the Government in connection with the situation in Cyprus. Gazprom, Lukoil, VTB, Sberbank may lose money, I wonder why the state-owned corporations of the Russian Federation store money in offshore? Ask this question, think about how it turned out that the beggar of deputies did not buy real estate for salaries, and were not bought in Russia. Oh yes - Ukraine is to blame, Jews are to blame ... Everyone is to blame, only the atamarines were cutting with their own hands!

    Why are you so angry? Why do you hate Russia so much? Our peoples have one blood flowing. We must be for each other, against the USA, and not against each other! NATO, Europe, USA - this is not our way. Understand both Russia and Ukraine will always be strangers there! Well, is it really incomprehensible? And yet - Gazprom, Lukoil, VTB, Sberbank and Putin and Medvedev - all of the above and the above are not Russia, these are companies and people who are influential and influencing the life of the country, but there are still people in Russia, about 150 million and companies ( not Gazprom of course, but still). Good luck to you! Come to visit if from Ukraine or from where else!
  • evil hamster
    evil hamster 18 March 2013 20: 09
    +1
    When I hear about "Sapsan" I have one question that arises, but where will it be tested? We have Kakp Yar and Asheluk for such purposes.
    1. Cpa
      Cpa 19 March 2013 08: 57
      0
      The area of ​​defeat of the peregrine falcon 10000 sq.m. ,those. square with side 100m do you really think that this requires a special training ground? Maximum operational missiles request
      1. evil hamster
        evil hamster 19 March 2013 11: 56
        -1
        It's not about the power of the warhead, but the flight range
        1. Cpa
          Cpa 19 March 2013 13: 35
          0
          The operational range of an operational missile does not exceed 350 kilometers.
  • radar75
    radar75 18 March 2013 20: 22
    -3
    Peregrine Falcon is a really working project. The tests were successful. The military, those who participated in the trials, like it.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 18 March 2013 20: 37
      +5
      Eeee ... as they say, proofs in the studio! Or are you talking about high-speed electric train?
    2. evil hamster
      evil hamster 18 March 2013 20: 42
      +2
      Oh, these tales, oh, these storytellers laughing
    3. ultra
      ultra 18 March 2013 23: 09
      +1
      Quote: radar75
      Peregrine Falcon is a really working project. The tests were successful

      WHEN? WHERE? HOW MUCH? request
  • gladiatorakz
    gladiatorakz 18 March 2013 20: 51
    +1
    When was it that something new was developed, produced and implemented without problems? And here it is. Hard but build. The complex is good. Needed.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 18 March 2013 21: 00
      +1
      That's when they build, test, show in action. Then we'll talk. In the meantime, this is waving empty flags.
      1. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz 18 March 2013 21: 30
        +1
        Quote: Wedmak
        That's when they build, test, show in action. Then we'll talk. In the meantime, this is waving empty flags.

        That is, it is necessary to delete all articles about "Armata", "Boomerang", T-50, PAK YES? Not implemented yet?
        It seems to me that perspective models are discussed, their need, the difficulties of realizing them in real life, and not your political commitment.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 18 March 2013 21: 46
          0
          That is, it is necessary to delete all articles about "Armata", "Boomerang", T-50, PAK YES? Not implemented yet?

          What for? All adequate people say, show performance characteristics, then we will compare. This is about Almaty, Boomerang, PAK YES.
          The T-50 is already in trials, and something has leaked to the public - some conclusions can already be drawn.
          And what conclusions can be drawn from the "paper" Sapsan? Although the development of the Soviet idea, as I was corrected.
          1. gladiatorakz
            gladiatorakz 18 March 2013 22: 03
            +2
            Quote: Wedmak
            What for? All adequate people say, show performance characteristics, then we will compare. This is about Almaty, Boomerang, PAK YES.
            The T-50 is already in trials, and something has leaked to the public - some conclusions can already be drawn.
            And what conclusions can be drawn from the "paper" Sapsan? Although the development of the Soviet idea, as I was corrected.

            laughing Funny conclusions, double standards, distortion of facts. And often you put in your words a meaning different from what they mean.
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 18 March 2013 22: 06
              0
              Where am I juggling something? And where did it make sense?
  • cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe 18 March 2013 21: 00
    +2
    A question to our admins and moderators: - "And what flags were taken away from us, of course I can distinguish horseradish from a finger by the style of the letter, but still I would like to see, as they say right now," on-line ", who there is.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 18 March 2013 21: 04
      0
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg3LVpfKjvA

      Something like that.
    2. Wedmak
      Wedmak 18 March 2013 21: 05
      +1
      [media = http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = mg3LVpfKjvA]

      Something like this. y ... no video is inserted ...
    3. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 18 March 2013 21: 06
      +1
      There is also increased censorship ... so forget it ...
  • OlegYugan
    OlegYugan 18 March 2013 21: 10
    -1
    Why do they need these Peregrine Falcons? Let the Iskanders buy from us in 2015.
    1. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 18 March 2013 21: 18
      -2
      Peregrine Falcons then to Africa instead of Iskanders to sell)) and they themselves will not fight West.)))
  • cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe 18 March 2013 21: 10
    0
    Quote: Wedmak

    Wedmak

    Quote: Geisenberg

    Geisenberg

    Thanks guys, reassured.
  • CARBON
    CARBON 18 March 2013 21: 12
    +2
    $ 20 million for "Brahmos" Maybe the author got it wrong.
  • Geisenberg
    Geisenberg 18 March 2013 21: 17
    -1
    They left people an inexhaustible scientific reserve in rocket science and they squandered it ...
  • VadimSt
    VadimSt 18 March 2013 21: 23
    0
    Quote: radar75
    Peregrine Falcon is a really working project. The tests were successful. The military, those who participated in the trials, like it.


    Where did you get this information?
    Or, was the "paper project" tested on natural paper and liked by the "paper" military?

    Real tests are planned for the 2015-2016 year - subject to the allocation of the required funds.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 18 March 2013 21: 24
    +2
    It may well be that Ukraine will sell its documentation, earning a little bit of money. And China will buy, this is probably the only way for the manufacturer to launch a rocket in series. But it will be announced about joint use and a breakthrough in military cooperation. They like to hang people’s noodles . That's true, China is copying everything and by the name of Mong - Pong will be released to the market.
    1. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 18 March 2013 21: 38
      0
      Quote: APASUS
      That's true, China is copying everything and by the name of Mong - Pong will be released to the market.

      "One hundred up the hill", so be it.
    2. Wedmak
      Wedmak 18 March 2013 21: 47
      +1
      Perhaps the most likely course of events. Although not very pleasant.
    3. gladiatorakz
      gladiatorakz 18 March 2013 21: 59
      +3
      Quote: APASUS
      It may well be that Ukraine will sell its documentation, earning a little bit of money

      Even if there is such a probability, then it is vanishingly small. Much less than the sale of SU - 35 to China.
      Quote: APASUS
      But it will be announced about sharing and a breakthrough in military cooperation. They like to hang all kinds of noodles for the people.

      That's for sure. In Russia they will tell the truth to the people. As always. China is a comrade and brother. Why are there SUSHKI, it’s not a pity to give us even the Far East. We are not some kind of Ukraine.

      Quote: APASUS
      That's true, China is copying everything and by the name of Mong - Pong will be released to the market.

      I think in 3-5 years we will find out how they will call the analogue of the SU-35. They will also claim that they themselves invented it and it surpasses Russian analogues.
      Does it remind you of anything?
      1. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe 18 March 2013 23: 44
        -1
        Quote: gladiatorakz
        I think in 3-5 years we will find out how they will call the analogue of the SU-35.

        And "Mong - Pong" in Ukraine will have no analogue, unfortunately, and there will be nothing to compare with.
        1. gladiatorakz
          gladiatorakz 19 March 2013 10: 45
          0
          Quote: cherkas.oe
          And "Mong - Pong" in Ukraine will have no analogue, unfortunately, and there will be nothing to compare with.

          Strong logic. That is, we will sell technologies to China, we will blame Ukraine for sales, and when China copies and produces, we will be glad that Ukraine does not have this. laughing
          1. cherkas.oe
            cherkas.oe 19 March 2013 18: 34
            0
            Quote: gladiatorakz
            Strong logic.

            But the logic is this; Russia, China, will sell the finished product, if it sells, of course, and let them fuss, disassemble and collect, strain their Chinese minds, how can all this be done. And Ukraine will sell all those product documentation and all the technology of its production, that’s the whole difference, Ukraine will be and Ukraine, unfortunately, will not.
            1. Conepatus
              Conepatus 19 March 2013 19: 13
              +2
              Like when Russia sold the engine rotary nozzle technology (Yak-141) to the United States, the amers now have the F-35, and the Yak-141 remained in a single copy. Like when Russia sold the Amer to the RD-180 engine for space rockets.
            2. gladiatorakz
              gladiatorakz 19 March 2013 20: 26
              0
              Quote: cherkas.oe
              But the logic is this; Russia, China, will sell the finished product, if it sells, of course, and let them fuss, disassemble and collect, strain their Chinese minds, how can all this be done. And Ukraine will sell all those product documentation and all the technology of its production, that’s the whole difference, Ukraine will be and Ukraine, unfortunately, will not.

              It is difficult to logically challenge fantastic fantasies. Try to think.
      2. APASUS
        APASUS 19 March 2013 21: 26
        0
        Quote: gladiatorakz
        Does it remind you of anything?

        Why are you doing this?
        Is the Ukrainian Army on the rise?
        The Ukrainian army has long been an occasion for ridicule. In fact, there are a lot of dubious achievements over the years of “independence”. Either a residential building will be covered with a ballistic missile, a passenger plane will be hit by an anti-aircraft missile, or recruiting tanks will shoot their barracks during firing. Theft and illegal arms trade have become the hallmark of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. But perhaps this is a one-way approach. “Arguments of the week” decided to take a closer look at the Ukrainian Armed Forces and consider their condition objectively.
        Yes left to read
        http://newsland.com/news/detail/id/412715/
        And I didn’t come up with it, the Ukrainian press writes!
        1. gladiatorakz
          gladiatorakz 19 March 2013 22: 28
          0
          Quote: APASUS
          Why are you doing this?

          To your previous comment.

          Quote: APASUS
          Is the Ukrainian Army on the rise?

          Did I say that? Rather, the stabilization phase. Stop fall. Preparation of bridgeheads for a jerk.
          Quote: APASUS
          In fact, there are a lot of dubious achievements over the years of “independence”. Either a residential building will be covered with a ballistic missile, a passenger plane will be hit by an anti-aircraft missile, or recruiting tanks will shoot their barracks during firing. Theft and illegal arms trade have become the hallmark of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. But perhaps this is a one-way approach.

          Of course one-sided. If you really want to discuss the current situation of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, then it is incorrect to extend the incident no. The moral right to teach, I think, is the one who has solved similar problems of their own. You can easily pick up facts about the Russian Armed Forces. From arms trafficking to human trafficking.

          Quote: APASUS
          The Ukrainian army has long been an occasion for ridicule.

          Generally one-sided statement. You can always find a group of downs that scoff at anything. Above the government, president, language, Heroes, Homeland. It is important to understand who and what makes fun of.
  • Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 18 March 2013 22: 16
    +5
    Sometimes I read "bazaars" in the comments and feel ashamed of all of us. Is it really impossible not to stoop to insults each other, even if you have different views. After all, there is a chance to find at least an understanding of the position of another. Let me quote from an interview with Candidate of Psychological Sciences T. Borisova: “Most often, the complex“ I’m always right ”suffers people who had to prove their innocence from the cradle, those who did not forgive their mistakes, and those who have been poked for any, even harmless blunders or oversights. They ... will never admit that they made a mistake. "
  • Algor73
    Algor73 18 March 2013 22: 37
    0
    They can and want to create "Sapsan". And for Russia this is not a hindrance - sales markets have long been divided. But there is one "but" - this multi-vector, so convenient for the Ukrainian politician. Confusing vectors - where to aim a rocket ?! It would be funny if it weren't so bitter ...
    1. gladiatorakz
      gladiatorakz 19 March 2013 10: 51
      0
      Quote: Algor73
      But there is one "but" - this multi-vector, so convenient for the Ukrainian politician.

      How many people like obscure words. How about multi-vectoring in Russia? After all, there are ties with the United States and the EU and with China and India, and many more with whom. What's bad about it?
  • dima1970
    dima1970 18 March 2013 23: 26
    +1
    What an interesting figure - 20 million S for Yakhont? This is how much the plane costs ...
  • Skavron
    Skavron 18 March 2013 23: 50
    -1
    hey guys ... how to determine the greatness of a country?
    Gutsul writes correctly ... you need to look at how children and old people live ... well, wherever children went, but pensioners ...
    and there is nothing for me to tell dear about the fact that Russian pensions are so great that the average pensioner has a comfortable life.
    source of the RF PF - basic pension of 6169 rubles. It's a lot?
    But! the average pension in 2013 is promised at 10313r. This is with 30 years of continuous experience. This is also not much, although more than in Ukraine, for example.
    But the basic foodstuffs in Russia are a little more expensive, utilities are more expensive, and 10313 is an average rather than a minimum pension. And what is considered average we know ...
    So, according to these indicators, Russia is still quite far from superpower.
    1. Skavron
      Skavron 19 March 2013 01: 33
      +2
      what is the minus? Offended by a superpower? And in fact, you have nothing to object to ...
    2. ultra
      ultra 20 March 2013 00: 05
      0
      Quote: Skavron
      So according to these indicators, Russia is still quite far from superpower

      Here is a SUPER POWER rating for you based on the size of your pensions: 1. Denmark-2800USD.2. Finland-1900USD.3. Norway-1542USD. hi
      1. Skavron
        Skavron 20 March 2013 11: 07
        +1
        oh, ok
        a washing machine in the same Belgium costs 200 euros, with a pension of 2000 euros
        that in Russia, that in Ukraine you can’t buy a washing machine for one pension ... or if you buy, you won’t be left for food ... count.
        And I recommend to go and see how their pensioners live there, and then write something about the levels here.
        I saw, I know. Was by the way in the Belgian nursing home (specialized in single pensioners with severe forms of various diseases, not walking, paralyzed). I was just in a quiet shock. I wanted to take a gun and shoot to hell with all our rulers. I can talk for a long time here, but the trend is on the face.
  • aspirin02
    aspirin02 19 March 2013 00: 02
    0
    Here's a little about the missiles that are being made in Ukraine ...

    [media = http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = YunW4kE-44I & feature = player_detailpage]

    [media = http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = V3TlOEeb6Bw & feature = player_detailpage]
  • valerei
    valerei 19 March 2013 00: 02
    -2
    The author, Vadim Feldman, how long does it take you to learn Russian? Zapadnik-Yushchenko did not know Russian and therefore brought his own: "In Ukraine" and off we go! Many in Ukraine have urgently forgotten the Russian spelling and began to wave at Yushchenko's illiteracy. When you write your articles on a RUSSIAN site, learn Russian. As for the Ukrainian complex, it’s good that it wasn’t invented. Otherwise, it will be impossible for our civilian aircraft to fly over the Black Sea. They beat me how to drink.
    1. Skavron
      Skavron 19 March 2013 00: 16
      +1
      oha ... in Russian it is correct and "on" and "in" ... and advice to you - go to school)))))
  • aspirin02
    aspirin02 19 March 2013 00: 13
    0
    As all is not deplorable, but over the course of these 3 years the army has begun to do something, new equipment, deep modernization, aviation are being assembled and modernized from conservation. And I believe that with a peregrine Falcon everything will be fine. Oligarchs also need to protect their business)))
    That's purely for the mood to see))

  • aspirin02
    aspirin02 19 March 2013 00: 52
    +1
    As all is not deplorable, but over the course of these 3 years the army has begun to do something, new equipment, deep modernization, aviation are being assembled and modernized from conservation. And I believe that with a peregrine Falcon everything will be fine. Oligarchs also need to protect their business)))
    That's purely for the mood to see))









    1. aspirin02
      aspirin02 19 March 2013 00: 54
      -1
      Ukrainian modernization Hamera)
      The Americans were shocked that this could increase survivability. (I read the article)


      This is the brainchild of an American hamer by the hands of Kharkovites))


      (The main export of China, of course, but at least something)))


      [img] http://j3qx.files.wordpress.com/2008/12
      [center] [img] http://alternathistory.org.ua/files/resize/users/user2927/kolchuga-



      640x570.jpg [/ img]

      Fort 224

      Fort 301

      Fort 401

      Fort 500 M1
      1. Drosselmeyer
        Drosselmeyer 19 March 2013 03: 23
        0
        aspirin02, why did you stick these photos? What is there in the Ukrainian army besides several planes in the photo? My relatives work at a helicopter repair plant. So for them there is no worse than a compulsory contract with the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine, which has not been paid for repaired helicopters for years.
        There is no hope for the restoration of the Ukrainian army, everything Soviet is outdated or sold, plundered, and then there’s only a chasm.
      2. evil hamster
        evil hamster 19 March 2013 11: 54
        +2
        Photos are of course good. Only for the Ukrainian Armed Forces, only repaired several aircraft and a couple of dozen hammers are relevant. Everything else is past the money.
  • Drosselmeyer
    Drosselmeyer 19 March 2013 03: 14
    +3
    What the hell is Peregrine Falcon? In January-February, ordinary civil servants, cops, etc. received a salary of $ 120. There is no money in the budget. Simply no. You can even fantasize about galactic cruisers, but in 2-3 years all the remnants of the army with a salary of $ 150-250 will disperse in Ukraine.
  • Cheloveck
    Cheloveck 19 March 2013 08: 01
    +2
    - First of all, I want to emphasize that modern high-precision weapons (one of the examples of which should be Sapsan IFRC) are non-nuclear factors in armed confrontations. Moreover, as the experience of recent local hostilities shows (for example, in 1999 during the military conflict in Yugoslavia), it is precisely the mass use of precision weapons that often achieve their goals even without the use of ground forces.Rave! NATO's "victory" over Yugosavia was ensured not by precision-guided weapons (which NATO members sometimes could not get across the country), but by an overwhelming numerical superiority in aviation. Like a pack of jackals attacked a lapdog.
    1. Conepatus
      Conepatus 19 March 2013 12: 36
      +2
      The victory of NATO over Yugoslavia was ensured by the inaction of Russia.
      Actually, they did the right thing that they did not interfere. In the 80s. Yugoslavia lived well, was friends with America, even managed to push its cars there. During the Olympics, the Soviet delegation tried to spoil, at least on trifles, but often. And how the smell of fried began to shout "Hey brothers ". How many times have Bulgaria been saved from oturichivaniya? Now Bulgaria is in NATO.
  • washi
    washi 19 March 2013 12: 15
    +2
    Slavs! Stop swearing with traitors on both sides. Remember the last words of Taras Bulba.
    Engineers made an advertisement, waiting for investments. Someone does not want to work for free. It will be unknown in what follows, but the Chinese will not invest in the Ukrainian missile. They lured, lured, and will continue to do this, scientists from the former USSR. Some left, some officially cooperate, some trade in state secret. Probably seen on TV a few years ago.
  • cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe 19 March 2013 23: 14
    0
    Quote: Conepatus
    How Russia once sold engine rotary nozzle technology to the United States

    Tw is about this, I’m talking.
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