The military operation in Ukraine takes on the features of the Iran-Iraq war

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The military operation in Ukraine takes on the features of the Iran-Iraq war

The military operation in Ukraine is usually compared to the First World War, due to the positional deadlock at the front, but it also has many similarities with the Iran-Iraq conflict. And there is a threat that the conflict in Ukraine will eventually escalate into just such a confrontation, which lasts for many years.

The Iran-Iraq armed conflict of 1980–1988 was one of the largest conflicts of the second half of the twentieth century in terms of duration (it lasted eight years), resources involved and human casualties. The war between the states began for a number of reasons and represented another chapter in the traditional Arab-Persian confrontation, which lasted for centuries.



This conflict had a certain similarity with the First World War - Iraq, which launched an offensive, lost the initiative after a few weeks of fighting, and the military conflict acquired a positional character, developing in waves: the opponents over and over again tried to seize the initiative from each other and alternated offensive with defensive actions.

In the material "Truce in Ukraine or direct clash with NATO: what to expect for Russia in 2024", the author has already noted that the Northern Military District may acquire the format of the Iran-Iraq war under a certain set of circumstances. Namely, if the US Democratic Party remains in power after the US elections in 2024.

Now we will look at the Iran-Iraq confrontation in more detail and try to answer the question: will the Northern Military District finally transform into the Iran-Iraq war of 1980–1988, or can this scenario still be avoided?

Iran-Iraq war: political background of the conflict



In the second half of the 1th century, before the start of the war, relations between Iran and Iraq underwent significant transformations: from participation in one military bloc (Baghdad Pact) to mutual military threats and advances to the borders of troops. Iran and Iraq had very serious differences: a territorial dispute, religious differences, the Kurdish problem, the issue of infringement of the Shiites in the south of Iraq, etc. However, things did not come to any serious armed clashes [XNUMX].

The situation worsened after Islamic radicals came to power in Iran and proclaimed a policy of “exporting the Islamic revolution” to the countries of the Middle East. The spiritual leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran (IRI), Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, accusing the monarchical regimes of the Gulf countries of departing from Islamic norms and traditions, most fiercely criticized the ruling secular Baath party in Iraq, led by Saddam Hussein [2].

Tehran criticized Baghdad for infringing on the rights of Iraq's Shiite majority, citing both religious evidence and the mistakes of the Baathist leadership. Moreover, Tehran raised the question of the need to expand Shiite representation, thereby questioning the competence of the Baathist leadership itself. In response to ideological pressure, Saddam Hussein decided to begin military operations against Iran.

Among the goals pursued by Iraq in the war are the following: leadership in the Persian Gulf region, as well as establishing control over the oil-rich province of Khuzestan, where the Arab population predominated. In addition, Iraq sought to revise in its favor the agreements that defined the borders between the two countries [1].

For its part, Iran pursued the goal of destroying the regime of Saddam Hussein, exporting the Islamic revolution to Iraq, where the Shiite population predominated, and in the future creating a belt of states with Shiite leadership: Iraq - Syria - Lebanon. In addition, war and the use of the “military danger” factor would help suppress internal opposition, achieve national consensus and consolidation around Khomeini [1].

On September 17, 1980, S. Hussein unilaterally denounced the Algiers Agreements, concluded in 1975 on unfavorable terms for Iraq, enshrining the principle of dividing the Shatt al-Arab River along the thalweg line, and five days later Iraqi troops invaded Iran. According to Hussein's plans, the upcoming military campaign was supposed to last several weeks and end with a brilliant victory for Iraq. His confidence was shared by other Gulf Arab countries. However, the reality turned out to be completely different.

A war with no winners



By the beginning of the war, Iraq had an overwhelming superiority in ground forces and aviation. About 140 thousand soldiers were concentrated in the border zone with Iran, 1 tanks, 1 guns and mortars, 700 combat aircraft. From Iran they were opposed by a group of troops of about 350 thousand people, armed with 70 tanks, 620 guns and mortars, and 710 combat aircraft. Thus, the Iraqi armed forces had a 150-fold superiority in personnel and tanks, and a 2-fold superiority in aircraft; and for artillery and mortars – 2,3 [2,4].

The fighting began with massive attacks by Iraqi aircraft on the military-economic and administrative centers of Iran, as well as on its airfields, ports and naval bases. By the end of the first day of the war, the Iraqi side managed to penetrate up to 20 km into enemy territory, and in 10 days the Iranian troops were driven back 40 km [3].

However, Iraqi forces were only able to maintain the initiative during the first six weeks of the war. During this period, part of the Khuzestan province with its rich oil fields was captured, but the predominant Arab population of this province, contrary to expectations, did not side with the Iraqi army [2].

By the end of November 1980, the Iraqi offensive had ceased. From this period until the fall of 1981, the war was of a positional nature. Neither side managed to seize the initiative for a long time. Only at the beginning of September 1981, Iranian troops went on the offensive and returned part of the occupied territory. Moreover, during this offensive the Iranians suffered heavy losses.

Thus, the Iraqi leadership, having lost the strategic initiative, was unable to carry out the planned blitzkrieg and solve the assigned tasks, defeating the enemy forces in a short period. In this regard, Baghdad made an attempt to persuade Tehran to negotiate peace, the proposal to begin which, however, was rejected by the Iranian leadership.

As it became obvious that the blitzkrieg plan had failed, the attitude of the Arab countries to the war also changed. By November 1980, Saddam Hussein found that the Arab states of which he claimed leadership were divided into three categories: solid allies who fully supported Iraq's efforts; supporters who could help him more actively; and renegades who sided with Iran. Moreover, only Jordan could be classified in the first category [2].

The second period of the war, from July 1982 to February 1984, saw Iran's offensive efforts. Since the end of 1982, both sides switched to the tactic of gradually “biting into” the enemy’s defenses. Without much success. As a result, the war reached a positional deadlock and increasingly took on the character of a “war of attrition.”

The forces of the fleets of Iran and Iraq did not show much activity until 1984; their actions were limited to rare attacks on naval bases and ports, and half-hearted attempts to blockade the coast of their enemy [3]. In the period from March 1984 to August 1988, positional battles were combined with combat operations at sea, which were called “tanker war” in foreign and domestic historiography, as well as with missile and air strikes on cities.

The superpowers - the USSR and the USA - took a rather dual position, changing it as the conflict progressed. Thus, at first the USSR pursued a policy of neutrality (1980–1982), and then openly supported Iraq (from 1982 to 1987) [4]. Considering that Iraq was a traditional ally of the Soviet Union and that at the time of the outbreak of hostilities (September 22, 1980), the Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation was in force, this is not surprising. But at the final stage of the conflict (1988), relations between the USSR and Iraq cooled, and the Soviet Union supported Iran’s initiatives and expanded economic cooperation with it.

As for the United States, at the beginning of the conflict, the Americans, like the USSR, took a wait-and-see attitude. However, as soon as the initiative in the war began to pass to Iran, since 1982 the United States began to pursue an openly pro-Iraqi policy. In addition to military supplies, Washington provided Iraq with intelligence information and also provided Baghdad with a $2 billion loan.

However, such US support for Iraq did not mean that the Americans wanted Saddam Hussein to win. For Washington, a quick victory for any of these large Gulf states seemed unfavorable; a prolonged confrontation in the region, firstly, would weaken both regional “centers of power”, and secondly, would provide an opportunity to strengthen their military presence under the pretext of stabilizing the situation in the Gulf basin [2]. For these reasons, the exhaustion of the warring parties fit well into US plans.

This position of Washington is confirmed by the fact of the secret sale weapons Iran. The purpose of these shipments was to ultimately resolve the fate of American and other Western hostages in Lebanon and restore diplomatic relations with Iran.[1]

On August 20, 1988, Iran-Iraq negotiations to conclude a peace agreement began. The war between Iraq and Iran has ended. This military conflict did not reveal a winner, since none of the problems that poisoned relations between the two states were resolved, and both conflicting parties were unable to achieve their goals.

Having decided to start hostilities, Saddam Hussein made at least two mistakes that subsequently determined the lengthy nature of the conflict.

First, he believed that the Iranian army, weakened by the purges, would be unable to effectively resist the Iraqi invasion.

Secondly, the President of Iraq really counted on the fact that the Arab population of Khuzestan would oppose the central government. However, these calculations turned out to be incorrect. Iran's hopes for help from the Iraqi Shiites also turned out to be groundless.

The consequences of the war were catastrophic for both countries. It led to the death of more than a million people, to the destruction of the infrastructure of both countries - according to experts, the damage caused by the war was estimated at $188 billion for Iraq and $369 billion for Iran.

The Iran-Iraq War and the Northeast Military District: similarities between the two conflicts


The military operation in Ukraine is increasingly taking on the features of the Iran-Iraq war, since it has been going on for almost two years, and its completion is not yet visible on the horizon.

Russia failed to win a quick victory over the Ukrainian army, and now the military conflict, just like the Iran-Iraq war, is developing in waves: the offensive of the Russian troops gave way to the defense and offensive of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, which ended unsuccessfully. After which the Armed Forces of Ukraine again went on the defensive, and the Russian Armed Forces are trying to conduct offensive actions (successes at best are of a tactical nature, without having any operational-strategic significance).

At the same time, Ukraine, despite the stalemate, has so far refused to negotiate on status quo terms, apparently counting on continued support from the United States and its allies. The West is generally on the side of Ukraine, but there is no longer unity on this issue, and the longer the conflict continues, the more doubts politicians in European countries have.

There is also no unity in the United States itself, where a significant portion of Republicans doubt the advisability of continuing financial and military assistance to Kyiv and are blocking an emergency aid package for Ukraine worth tens of billions of dollars, linking its adoption with a consensus on changes in US immigration and border policy.

Nevertheless, the current American administration and the US Democratic Party insist on continued support for Ukraine. They expect that the military conflict will continue for a long time. This is, for example, stated in the material of The New York Times “The US and Ukraine are looking for a new strategy after a failed counteroffensive” (US and Ukraine Search for a New Strategy After Failed Counteroffensive).

“The American and Ukrainian militaries are looking for a new strategy, which they can begin implementing early next year...
The Americans are pushing for a conservative strategy aimed at holding territory, defending and building up reserves and forces through 2024. The United States believes that this strategy will increase Ukraine's self-sufficiency."

- writes the edition.

In addition, as the NYT notes, American officials say that “Ukraine will have to fight on a tighter budget.”

Many Ukrainian leaders do not realize how precarious continued U.S. funding for the war is, U.S. officials said. They say Ukrainian generals and senior civilian officials have unrealistic expectations of what the United States will supply. For example, they are asking for millions of artillery shells from Western stocks that do not exist.”

Thus, American democrats, realizing that the Ukrainian Armed Forces will not be able to defeat the Russian Army, are in favor of continuing the war of attrition and transforming the military conflict in Ukraine into the format of the Iran-Iraq war.

In connection with this, the question arises: is the final transformation of the Northern Military District into something similar to the Iran-Iraq war highly probable or even inevitable?

There is no clear answer to this question, since much, oddly enough, depends, among other things, on the political dynamics within the United States itself (the confrontation between Republicans and Democrats), as well as the position of EU countries. Ukraine is completely dependent on Western (primarily American) military and financial assistance, and its current political leadership, relying on this assistance, completely inadequately assesses the situation and has so far refused to negotiate.

And Russia, in turn, demonstrated its inability to win a convincing victory on the battlefield and fell into the trap of a positional stalemate. Therefore, the situation directly on the battlefield influences the overall strategic situation less and less significantly.

Использованная литература: [1]. Belousova K. A. The Iran-Iraq War (1980–1988) and US policy in Iraq // Bulletin of the Ryazan State University named after. Yesenina, 2005.

[2]. Abalyan A. I. Iran-Iraq armed conflict 1980–1988. and its influence on the system of international relations in the Middle East.

[3]. Dotsenko V.D. Fleets in local conflicts of the second half of the 2001th century. – M.: ACT; St. Petersburg: Terra Fantastica, XNUMX.
[4]. Mirny D.S. Intervention of the USSR and the USA in the Iran-Iraq War of 1980–1988.
237 comments
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  1. -30
    16 December 2023 04: 38
    I fundamentally disagree! The SVO has nothing in common with the war indicated in the title.
    Firstly, the North Military District began as an operation to displace the Nazi regime in Kyiv and did not imply the current scale of hostilities.
    Secondly, artillery, aviation, remote mining and UAVs now prevail on the battlefield, which was not the case in the war between Iraq and Iran.
    And most importantly, these companies have different goals. Russia stepped into Ukraine after NATO refused to take its opinion into account. Comparing such goals with the goals of Iran and Iraq is simply ridiculous.
    1. +19
      16 December 2023 05: 44
      Russia has invaded Ukraine
      ...kind of a so-so phrase.
      1. +40
        16 December 2023 08: 52
        How was it different? It was precisely because it was impossible to take such territory with a group of 150 bayonets. Until now, the authorities have not bothered to admit that they are to blame for their miscalculations.
      2. -6
        16 December 2023 09: 31
        Agree. It was necessary to write Russia came to liberate the Ukrainian people winked
        1. +18
          16 December 2023 12: 54
          The Russian army is engaged in the destruction of soldiers and citizens of Ukraine who are the people. Liberation from whom? From those who set the vector of Ukrainian politics? Anyone will die there, but not these people. This is not liberation.
          1. +1
            16 December 2023 14: 40
            and I would note one more fact.
            As long as they are in the trench, we destroy them to the last Nazi vermin.
            but... as soon as we take prisoner, all Nazi hatred immediately disappears and the Ukrainian, thrice smeared with a swastika tattoo, becomes a brother, he is given help, allowed to call his loved ones, given cigarettes, fed And then those especially smeared with fascist ideology on Abramovich’s personal plane with tiramisu and new iPhones are being taken to Turkey for treatment and relaxation.
            and ordinary ordinary people suddenly become a fraternal people, although the Skabeev-Solovievs urge us to fight to the last Ukrainian, to grind as much as possible.
            That's what's strange.
            This is where we have the main disadvantage of both ideology and actions in fact.
          2. +6
            16 December 2023 21: 01
            In Ukraine, for more than 30 years, a generation has been raised to hate RUSSIA. We are not liberating anyone!!!! We just hit him in the face and take back what is ours, ETERNAL. Little Russia. And it will take decades to denazify the brains.
          3. +3
            17 December 2023 13: 58
            At one time, the Soviet army liberated the German people from Nazism in the same way, and at the same time, ordinary Germans, intoxicated by fascist propaganda, also died, and not the leadership of the Third Reich.
            1. +1
              20 December 2023 06: 56
              Remember what these Germans did without exception in the occupied territory of the USSR. Robbed, raped and hanged. They were not drugged, but ordinary executioners. And this was always on their part. In all wars with them.
              1. -1
                17 February 2024 17: 01
                This only confirms the stupefaction when the enemy is dehumanized. But it's not that simple. My grandmother told me how German soldiers treated her daughters (my mother and aunt) to chocolate when they remained in the Bryansk region under occupation. War with civilians is usually waged where there is a partisan movement, which is impossible without its support. “Afghans” I knew told me how they burned down entire villages suspected of helping the Mujahideen. In general, there is no place for angels in war, although the command sometimes tries to introduce the behavior of soldiers into a civilized framework for image reasons.
          4. +2
            18 December 2023 10: 56
            Real Nazis are sent to Turkey for treatment, and mercenaries go home and die
            the indigenous population on both sides is the main goal, well, you know the rest
        2. +4
          16 December 2023 21: 29
          And here’s the question. Did the Ukrainian people themselves want to be freed? From what, it’s just not clear. They accepted the rules of the game, the Nazi ideology overwhelmingly. They got used to living like this for decades.
          1. +1
            18 December 2023 00: 37
            Yeah, I wanted to.
            !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    2. +44
      16 December 2023 07: 59
      Quote: Mikhail-Ivanov
      Firstly, the North Military District began as an operation to remove the Nazi regime in Kyiv and did not imply the current scope of hostilities

      And therefore, the Russian authorities with this “Nazi regime” began peace negotiations on the 4th day of the operation, declaring 800 times that they do not set as their goal a change of power in Ukraine. Zelensky’s government was recognized before the “SVO” and is successfully recognized now.
      If you are trying to conduct propaganda, at least voice the television theses of the authorities correctly.
      1. +10
        16 December 2023 08: 55
        I don't do propaganda! The goal of the SVO was to remove Zelensky and for this they agreed with Medvedchuk, who swore to organize everything. As a result, Medvedchuk screwed up according to plan, but the Ukrainian from Kyiv did not run away and began to fight, which our political “strategists” clearly did not expect. As a result, the entire operation had to be changed on the fly.
        They wanted to put Surkov in jail for this, but then they forgave him, as is our custom now...
        1. +24
          16 December 2023 12: 08
          Quote: Mikhail-Ivanov
          The goal of the SVO was to remove Zelensky and for this they agreed with Medvedchuk, who promised to organize everything

          Let's do it again - Russian authorities recognize Zelensky government (like Poroshenko since May 25, 2014), with representatives this government they began to negotiate Day 4 of surgery. And an agreement on negotiations was reached on the 3rd day, and then talk about “humanitarian pauses” began. And the Russian authorities repeatedly stated in 2022 and 2023 that they had no goal of shifting power in Ukraine. These are facts, reality given to us in sensations.
          As for your fantasies, plan B connected with the fantasies (not yours, but individual representatives of the Russian authorities) that the Maidan regime would move to Lvov and instead of the bad “Nazi Zelensky” it would be possible to put the good godfather Medvedchuk in Kiev, it really was . For this purpose, retired Ukrainian political strategists and politicians were traveling in the convoy of the group advancing on Kyiv.
          However, this super plan, which was not officially declared in any way, was never the main one, and was finally removed from the agenda due to its complete inadequacy already on the 3rd day of the operation.
          Quote: Mikhail-Ivanov
          They wanted to put Surkov in jail for this, but then they forgave him, as is our custom now...

          Oh, these storytellers. In reality, Surkov was removed from the Ukrainian direction already in 2020. And supposedly they wanted to imprison him because he not only rubbished his bosses in 2014-2015 (whom he openly despised), but also, as befits representatives of the “patriotic authorities,” he is also fantastic stole.
        2. +5
          16 December 2023 20: 02
          How many missile and bomb attacks were carried out in Kyiv on the locations of the government that is the target of the removal?
        3. +3
          16 December 2023 22: 38
          Quote: Mikhail-Ivanov
          We agreed with Medvedchuk, who promised to organize everything. As a result, Medvedchuk screwed up according to plan

          How did they negotiate with him, he was in prison for quite a long time and no one even tried to get him out of there?
      2. +13
        16 December 2023 15: 04
        Before the NWO, the Nazi regime was a government, and after the NWO, it became a regime. By the way. In 2014, the picture was exactly the opposite, from the beginning they were a regime, then they became a government. smile
      3. -3
        19 December 2023 10: 57
        what the current era can offer Ukraine, nothing, Zelinsky’s government is the same as Putin’s government, alas!
        1. +1
          25 December 2023 00: 09
          Erefia can and has offered Ukraine not to join NATO, not to have foreign bases and troops on its territory, not to discriminate against the Russian language, not to pursue a hostile policy towards Russia. The Putin government is fundamentally different from the Zelensky government, which has an ideology of extreme nationalism and Russophobia, which the Putin government does not have. The Putin government does not have ukrophobia. Well, if the proposals did not suit the Zelensky government, then the Putin government achieves its goals by force of arms. They will not offer anything else to Ukraine. And why on earth? No one in Putin’s government promised Ukraine cookies and lace panties for this. Now everything is tough.
    3. -1
      16 December 2023 10: 37
      How old is the author? There was a war of TOTAL destruction going on there.
      The common thing is that both then and now the West is actively rubbing its hands with joy
    4. +19
      16 December 2023 10: 44
      Quote: Mikhail-Ivanov
      I fundamentally disagree! The SVO has nothing in common with the war indicated in the title.

      The author does not talk about complete identity; this is impossible in principle. Of course, there are differences both at the beginning and during the conflict, which does not refute a common similarity of the situation. Moreover, the completion (and it will happen sooner or later) will also be radically different. There is a difference between: Tutsis against Hutus (who is this???), Shiites against Sunnis (these are the ones in the desert and they have a lot of oil?) and a full-fledged military conflict in Old Europe (how is this possible!!! ate at all!!!?). The reaction of the “civilized world” will be completely different, as will the consequences.
      Quote: Mikhail-Ivanov
      Secondly, artillery, aviation, remote mining and UAVs now prevail on the battlefield, which was not the case in the war between Iraq and Iran.

      This is particular.
      Quote: Mikhail-Ivanov
      And most importantly, these companies have different goals.

      Our goals are still a mystery to ourselves laughing
    5. +10
      16 December 2023 13: 03
      “I lost money - I lost nothing.
      I lost a woman and only gained one.
      Lost time, lost everything."
      Russia has lost time since 2014. And nothing can make up for it.
      Now just go to the end.
      1. +7
        16 December 2023 20: 07
        A small clarification. “Time lost by Russia” sounds somewhat abstract. There are specific people who made decisions as a result of which Russia lost time
        1. +3
          16 December 2023 21: 38
          A small clarification. “Time lost by Russia” sounds somewhat abstract. There are specific people who made decisions as a result of which Russia lost time

          There are, they will be and they are not going to go anywhere :)
        2. +6
          16 December 2023 22: 55
          Quote: Mikhail Krivopalov
          A small clarification. “Time lost by Russia” sounds somewhat abstract. There are specific people who made decisions as a result of which Russia lost time

          It seems to me that all these people feel cheerful sitting in their chairs, and not in the trenches. Do you feel the difference? And the elections are just around the corner, look at how the media started to show positivity. Where to look for the guilty here?
    6. +1
      17 December 2023 20: 33
      Quote: Mikhail-Ivanov
      SVO began as an operation to remove the Nazi regime in Kyiv
      Who promised this? Denazification is by no means only defazization - the displacement of the Nazi regime in Kyiv. This is the establishment of a regime in which the surviving and free Nazis will be afraid to remember their Nazi nonsense, leaving only scars on their bodies from tattoos. Changes in the constitution and other laws, reforms in government, education, etc. But this requires complete demilitarization.
    7. 0
      18 December 2023 14: 52
      “Russia climbed into Ukraine after NATO refused to take its opinion into account,” an almost brilliant phrase. The only question is, why didn’t he “get involved” with NATO? He refused. And yet, for the previous 8 years until 2022, to whom should we attribute it, during all these 8 years everything was fine and NATO took into account the opinion? hi
  2. +3
    16 December 2023 04: 51
    it is necessary to destroy the energy sector transport communications industry in Ukraine and there will be no protracted war.
    It’s soon the middle of winter and there are hardly any blows.
    1. +3
      16 December 2023 05: 47
      Quote: VZEM100
      it is necessary to destroy the energy sector transport communications industry in Ukraine and there will be no protracted war.
      It’s soon the middle of winter and there are hardly any blows.

      "energy" is not one specific point. This is a system that can be restored in a short time. to bring it down, you need to hit the producers, i.e. NPP.GRES...do you understand? This is total destruction of the population. do we need it?
      1. -4
        16 December 2023 09: 29
        if they hit anything en masse in a short time, they will not be able to restore it. destroy at least the main part of the substations in regional cities, they will begin to rebuild and go through it a second time. also destroy TV towers and large servers so that Bandera propaganda, which has been continuing unhindered for two years, will stop.
        but in general, with the curtailment of funding, the Ukrainians became despondent and began to understand that they would not be able to resist Russia. and that in fact they are bankrupt
      2. +9
        16 December 2023 09: 32
        there are only 7 critical power substations of 750 KVA each. they must be destroyed. Well, the refinery and everything will work out. They cannot be restored quickly.
        1. +9
          16 December 2023 11: 02
          NATO most likely prohibits it. They are probably threatening behind the scenes to transfer long-range missiles to Ukraine in this case.
        2. +2
          16 December 2023 11: 54
          There were no oil refineries there before the war, except for the Kremenchug oil refinery. The latter was completely decommunized in November. All supplies come from European countries.
          1. +3
            16 December 2023 22: 40
            The Kremenchug oil refinery is working quite well, maybe in exchange that the Zaporizhzhya NPP is not being shelled, maybe something else
            1. 0
              17 December 2023 09: 35
              Where do you get the information about what works? Do you live there? It can even work in different ways - as a storage facility and as a real refinery. And then, for the entire country, the Kremenchug oil refinery is catastrophically small. Almost all supplies are imported.
              1. +1
                17 December 2023 14: 48
                The fisherman wrote that he was working last year. Previously, it was enough for most of Ukraine, but now the population has fled, more can be sent to war.
                1. +1
                  17 December 2023 19: 24
                  “The Kremenchug Refinery, owned by Ukrtatnafta, is the largest oil refinery in Ukraine. Russia fired more than 30 missiles at the plant, including the last attack on November 1. The plant has stopped working since March 2022. Losses from shelling are $400 million, according to the Kyiv School economy."
                  To restore the entire technical process requires a lot of money. Nobody will do this. And yes, in 2022 he was still working.
                  1. +1
                    17 December 2023 21: 25
                    Quote: Victor19
                    Losses from shelling - $400 million, according to the Kyiv School of Economics.

                    So that they don't shoot anymore. Can you find the coordinates where the missiles landed? Preferably with photos. And then they say there are not production units, but product storage facilities.
                    1. 0
                      17 December 2023 21: 33
                      Who will post such photos for you? The technical process with catalytic cracking is very complex and if damaged, it takes a long time to restore and costs money.
                      1. +1
                        17 December 2023 23: 34
                        Such photos could be posted by the Russian Ministry of Defense from a satellite; a year has already passed. Why not post it? Maybe because the plant was allowed to continue operating?
                      2. 0
                        19 December 2023 07: 16
                        No, not a year. The last heavy rocket attack was in November. And recently the attack was by drones. So it is no longer a refinery. Perhaps it is used as a storage base for fuel and lubricants, since the area is huge and there are plenty of containers.
      3. 0
        16 December 2023 12: 53
        No need to distort! There is no need to hit nuclear power plants, state district power plants and thermal power plants - there are power lines and transformers. Do you get it?
        1. 0
          16 December 2023 14: 33
          I completely agree, even a blow to one transformer substation will add headaches for at least 1-2 days (it’s like a small booth in your yard that distributes current to surrounding houses), I know from my own experience.
    2. -11
      16 December 2023 06: 28
      It’s Ukraine that’s striking.. Today there are 45 UAVs... Why doesn’t Russia erase Kharkov, which is indicative?
      1. +8
        16 December 2023 07: 51
        Why Kharkov, there is Lviv
      2. -7
        16 December 2023 09: 31
        when will they significantly erase at least one Khokhlomisto in the center or on the right bank
      3. +1
        16 December 2023 18: 36
        When in February 1945, the Americans, indicatively (including for the USSR), destroyed Dresden with a population of about 600 thousand people, they dropped almost 4 thousand tons of bombs. Part of the city was almost completely destroyed. However, Dresden station was bombed more than once after that.
        And now the question: the missile warhead is about 0,5 tons. How many missiles does it take to “erase Kharkov”?
        Almost 68 thousand tons of bombs were dropped on Berlin during the war.
    3. +4
      16 December 2023 11: 02
      NATO most likely prohibits it. They are threatening to secretly transfer long-range missiles to Ukraine in this case.
      1. +3
        17 December 2023 03: 52
        Or maybe in exchange for the inviolability of the gas pipeline, otherwise how else will we send gas to Geyropa to the NATO fascists
        1. 0
          17 December 2023 13: 17
          It’s as if we need the gas pipeline no less than they do. Where can I get foreign currency to purchase goods for parallel import that we do not produce ourselves?
    4. +5
      16 December 2023 20: 04
      It would also not hurt to stop paying billions to Ukraine for the transit of gas and oil and sell energy to NATO countries, which will then re-export it to Ukraine.
    5. +1
      17 December 2023 04: 31
      Quote: VZEM100
      it is necessary to destroy the energy sector transport communications industry in Ukraine and there will be no protracted war.
      It’s soon the middle of winter and there are hardly any blows.

      I would like to answer with words from an anecdote - “...don’t drive the wave.”
      It is necessary, it is necessary, it is necessary.... Produce missiles, tanks (not T-62), find personnel, train soldiers, retrain commanders, restore order and 100500 other “needs”....
  3. Eug
    +8
    16 December 2023 05: 49
    So “Ukraine...... for now refuses negotiations on the terms of the status quo” comes up... that is, such negotiations are proposed (by whom, if not Russia or someone with its consent), and about complete victory We are not talking about Russia - God forbid we maintain the status quo....
  4. +26
    16 December 2023 06: 35
    Unfortunately, everything is written correctly. Until recently there was hope that we would be able to deliver decisive blows by replenishing the number of troops with mobilization and contract soldiers and exhausting the forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine that were attacking our defense, but now there is no such hope. Now the only bet is on attrition.
    1. 0
      16 December 2023 07: 33
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Now the only bet is on attrition.

      This is exactly how Germany was defeated in WWII - by starvation.
      1. -12
        16 December 2023 09: 11
        Germany was washed away with carpets inside and by active grinding of the most combat-ready troops, with the liberation of territories on the fronts. Where is the starvation? Offensive tactics.
        1. +16
          16 December 2023 11: 50
          Quote: Essex62
          Germany was washed away with carpets

          In WWII? belay
        2. +3
          16 December 2023 12: 07
          Quote: Essex62
          Where is the starvation?

          Quote: your1970
          in PMV

          Quote: Essex62
          carpeted
          I’m interested in what kind of braces with Gnome engines with as many as 40 horsepower they hung tons of bombs on - in WWII?

          Quote: Essex62
          Offensive tactics.
          by the time of the collapse of the Second (yeah yeah!! Not the Third!!) Reich - not a single Entente soldier crossed the German border...
          Before you boil with righteous anger and create negatives, think at least for a couple of seconds over the text!!
          1. +3
            16 December 2023 18: 45
            I didn’t give you any negatives, but actually read them “across”, due to the lack of a binocular device on the nose. I apologize. hi
        3. +1
          16 December 2023 18: 06
          Where can you watch the “washing away” of Germany by carpet bombing in WWI?)
        4. man
          +2
          17 December 2023 02: 12
          Quote: Essex62
          Germany was washed away with carpets inside and by active grinding of the most combat-ready troops, with the liberation of territories on the fronts. Where is the starvation? Offensive tactics.

          You are confused. Carpet bombing was used against the Germans by the Romans in the second century BC.
      2. +8
        16 December 2023 10: 07
        Quote: your1970
        This is exactly how Germany was defeated in WWII - by starvation.

        Well, yes... Only now Germany was blocked from the whole world, interrupting its foreign trade.
        1. +12
          16 December 2023 13: 25
          All imports depend on China; if partners convince Beijing not to even stop, but to raise prices by 30 percent, there will be talk of difficult decisions.
          1. +5
            16 December 2023 14: 44
            you shouldn't be doing that.
            Jingoist patriots do not know how to think deeply, although, disconnect any of them from Ali-express and his children-wives will howl, without this source of replenishing junk in the apartment of ANY citizen of our country.
          2. +10
            16 December 2023 17: 52
            Quote: Skif3216
            All imports depend on China; if partners convince Beijing not to even stop, but to raise prices by 30 percent, there will be talk of difficult decisions.

            What did you want from the authorities whose course is trade in resources today and now, and at least grass won’t grow there. During their endless reign, they did not lift a finger to somehow correct the situation and not depend on imports.
          3. -2
            16 December 2023 22: 44
            This will be a serious crossbow for China, since the Americans directly say that they are next. The Russian oligarchy will arrange a change of power and go to the West as a more consistent and sane master, leaving the Americans to fight with China until the last Russian. What was later unequivocally discussed at the negotiations in the summer of 2021 in Geneva
            1. -2
              17 December 2023 19: 34
              Quote from alexoff
              leaving the Americans to fight China until the last Russian. ABOUT

              In front of the Soviet General Staff stood spicy task - what to do if China crosses the border of even 1 million in the Far East or beyond Lake Baikal?
              It was possible to transfer an adequate group to the breakthrough site practically impossible ...
              The whole joke is that nothing has changed...
              So “until the last Russian” won’t work - they won’t pull it off...
              1. 0
                17 December 2023 21: 23
                Quote: your1970
                So “until the last Russian” won’t work - they won’t pull it off...

                they will pull, but Ukraine pulled. And then the oligarchs will donate 2 thousand armats and so that salaries in the military-industrial complex will become 300-500 thousand, and even the remnants of the Armed Forces of Ukraine will be sent to help, not to mention all sorts of Japanese-Filipinos.
                It is today’s cowardly rulers who are afraid of the West, and if they are told to be brave, they will immediately replace the parquet generals, and they will find smart captains and give them general’s shoulder straps, and they will probably even cover the planes with hangars. Rumors about the power and courage of China are greatly exaggerated; in London, Chinese officials were the main buyers of real estate
      3. +3
        17 December 2023 04: 35
        Quote: your1970
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Now the only bet is on attrition.

        This is exactly how Germany was defeated in WWII - by starvation.

        It remains, as has been discussed many times, to define the concept of “win” in relation to our situation...
        By the way, we are also being starved to death - sanctions, for example, the inability to sell uranium to the Americans wink (what will happen if plutonium sales stop? sad )... and what to do with denazification...
      4. 0
        18 December 2023 14: 56
        The United States entered the war and the balance of power changed beyond recognition. By 1918, Germany had Ukraine as a resource supplier. But the size of the German army did not allow them to resist the new enemy for long.
    2. +26
      16 December 2023 08: 07
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Now the only bet is on attrition.

      The problem is that “starvation” (that is, a sluggish war dosedly fueled by the West so that both sides bleed) ideally for the Russian Federation can only end in a truce on the LBS (probably in the fall of 2024) without the legal registration of a peace treaty and without recognition of any territories of Ukraine for the Russian Federation including Crimea. And the sanctions will remain in force.
      It is clear that propaganda within the country will declare this a victory and capitulation of Ukraine, but it will not get any better
      1. -27
        16 December 2023 09: 05
        I vote for Putin!

        Quote: Belisarius
        It is clear that propaganda within the country will declare this a victory

        Putin just said that the goals of the Northern Military District have not changed (15.12.2021/70/XNUMX). On the issue of the offensive, the NGSH explained that while they are climbing, it is better to dispose of them at our well-organized fortifications. In this way, about XNUMX% of the armed rabble of Ukraine have already been disposed of.

        There is no need to invent anything. We must listen to the original source, who has all the information and, to the best of his ability, manages all processes.
        1. +16
          16 December 2023 20: 12
          "We disposed of about 70% of the armed rabble." I remember in the summer of 2022 there were comments that the Ukrainian Armed Forces had ended and that Poles and other NATO mercenaries were fighting instead. Afterwards, in October 2022, they wrote here that the Armed Forces of Ukraine would soon end and the Poles would fight instead... Another year has passed, and already 70% have been destroyed
          1. man
            +4
            17 December 2023 01: 26
            Quote: Mikhail Krivopalov
            "We disposed of about 70% of the armed rabble." I remember in the summer of 2022 there were comments that the Ukrainian Armed Forces had ended and that Poles and other NATO mercenaries were fighting instead. Afterwards, in October 2022, they wrote here that the Armed Forces of Ukraine would soon end and the Poles would fight instead... Another year has passed, and already 70% have been destroyed

            Come on, they could have named 700% of those destroyed, but here only 70... are being modest smile In a couple of years, look, we will destroy the entire population of NATO countries, and several times
            1. 0
              17 December 2023 03: 53
              Really, why feel sorry for them?
          2. +4
            17 December 2023 04: 37
            Quote: Mikhail Krivopalov
            "We disposed of about 70% of the armed rabble." I remember in the summer of 2022 there were comments that the Ukrainian Armed Forces had ended and that Poles and other NATO mercenaries were fighting instead. Afterwards, in October 2022, they wrote here that the Armed Forces of Ukraine would soon end and the Poles would fight instead... Another year has passed, and already 70% have been destroyed

            Their birth rate is crazy wink
            Especially in aviation sad
        2. +9
          16 December 2023 21: 14
          Quote: Boris55
          I vote for Putin

          ...burn in hell !
          1. 0
            17 December 2023 23: 10
            Quote: Vlad Baryatinsky
            Quote: Boris55
            I vote for Putin

            ...burn in hell !

            um
            in heaven winked
      2. +8
        16 December 2023 15: 17
        this will be declared a victory and capitulation of Ukraine, but it won’t make it any better
        Maduro turned out to be smarter, he “annexed” part of Guyana with a referendum, did not fight and already explained everything or came to an agreement with the President of Guyana, one-on-one. And with his actions, he split the opposition, drove it under the bench, and essentially secured for himself victory in the elections in 2024. Sleight of hand and no fraud. And did not receive additional sanctions. laughing Good girl.
      3. -1
        16 December 2023 19: 50
        Quote: Belisarius
        ideally for the Russian Federation it can only end with a truce on the LBS (probably in the fall of 2024)
        This is an ideal for Ukraine.
        If funding is cut—and it will be cut in the absence of a “counterattack”—Ukraine will be without weapons.
        If they don’t cut back and there will be a “counter-offensive” - Ukraine will suffer heavy losses and possibly without l / s
        For the Russian Federation, peace according to the current LBS is a defeat.

        Quote: Belisarius
        sanctions will remain in force.
        sanctions forever. Like the Jackson Vanik sanctions announced by the USSR for the Jews, damn how many years after the Jews began freely roaming back and forth.
        Quote: Belisarius
        propaganda within the country and this will be declared a victory and capitulation of Ukraine,
        propaganda in the Internet age so If he can’t, he physically can’t.
        And yes, it won’t get any better under any circumstances, even with the capture of Lvov and the dissemination of all Bandera’s supporters throughout the squares.
      4. +1
        17 December 2023 01: 55
        Quote: Belisarius
        without recognizing any territories of Ukraine, including Crimea, as the Russian Federation.

        This is completely impossible. In the modern world (after WWII), there is a ban on changing borders as a result of wars, except by identifying a new country. Some Northern Cyprus has been an “unrecognized republic” for 50 years.
        1. +3
          17 December 2023 08: 38
          But ours is not a war, but a “police” operation. Return of "lost" territories. It is impossible to agree to the legitimacy of the Belovezhskaya Conspiracy, because without an idea, it is difficult to fight for one loot. That’s what many who pull the burden of SVO think, but those in the towers don’t think so. The country needs leaders who are not afraid for their money and who will officially voice this idea.
          1. +2
            17 December 2023 10: 15
            Quote: Essex62
            Return of "lost" territories

            That is, by “we can repeat” they meant “we can repeat the collapse of the USSR, but according to the Yugoslav version”? So that Lukashenko joins NATO tomorrow?

            Well, well, let's see. The idea is rich.
            1. -2
              17 December 2023 15: 10
              By the return of “lost” territories, this is exactly what is meant. As part of a single Union, with central authority in the Kremlin. Just like the Russian Empire (preferably with a socialist system) and it should be. What does Yugoslavia have to do with it?
              1. +1
                17 December 2023 19: 54
                Quote: Essex62
                By the return of “lost” territories, this is exactly what is meant

                )))
                There are many places in Russia that hate you (regardless of who you are). And how things have been going with the “lost territories” over the past two years should have become obvious.

                But not everyone.
                1. -3
                  17 December 2023 20: 09
                  So this goes without saying, but it’s not an obstacle at all. Of course, there are many for whom the revival of the Empire is against their organism. Solvable, because “there are no such fortresses...” First, in half, through the knee and into four bones. And then it’s a carrot for those who come to their senses. Well, approximately the same as the Jews, in the same Gaza. How else? The territory of Russia must be returned.
                  1. +1
                    17 December 2023 20: 34
                    Quote: Essex62
                    Of course, there are many for whom the revival of the Empire is contrary to their body

                    ))
                    The war with time has only one outcome, but it's fun to watch. Preferably, of course, from afar.
                    1. -2
                      17 December 2023 20: 40
                      To each his own. Contemplate. And time is always the same, it flows on its own and does not respond to what is passing. It's just time. The superethnos has no other way, they will dissolve if they don’t pull themselves together into a fist.
                      1. 0
                        17 December 2023 20: 52
                        Quote: Essex62
                        The superethnos has no other way, they will dissolve if they don’t pull themselves together into a fist.

                        Who will win in an unequal dispute?
                        Puffy Lyakh il faithful Ross?
                        Will Slavic streams merge in the Russian sea?
                        Will it run dry? Here's the question.

                        It seems that, thanks to the outstanding efforts of the Soviet government, the issue with the “superethnos” is closed forever: Russia is a medium-sized country, like Pakistan or Nigeria. But, apparently, the Bolsheviks did not do enough.
                      2. 0
                        17 December 2023 21: 02
                        How is it closed, when is it closed? What are you doing? Please do not bring up liberal anti-Soviet speculation. Data.
                        Is Russia the size of Pakistan? Hmmm, just go to the doctor. I recently visited Sakhalin. I flew from the Mother See for 9 hours, nothing has changed there, Russia is there. And under the wing all 9 hours Russia, Russia, Russia.
                      3. +1
                        17 December 2023 21: 11
                        Quote: Essex62
                        Is Russia the size of Pakistan? Hmmm, just go to the doctor

                        You're right, I made a mistake. Nigeria and Pakistan are both for 200 million. Russia is at the level of Ethiopia and Mexico in terms of population (or even closer to Vietnam; in terms of the population of the Russian Federation there are many questions). Of course, in the modern world, the size of a country is population and GDP, not kilometers.
                      4. 0
                        18 December 2023 07: 10
                        The birth rate in Muslim countries is always higher for a number of reasons. And there were no terrible wars of extermination like ours. After the “reforms of the young reformers and rampant bandetism, the number of Russians decreased by 40-50 million. What does Soviet power have to do with it? It was the same in the Republic of Ingushetia. How many lives did the Russo-Japanese, WWII and Civil War claim? And yet, this is a trend for countries with Christian culture, unfortunately.
                        And everything is fine with our GDP. Resets to zero and continues to steer.
                      5. 0
                        18 December 2023 07: 50
                        Quote: Essex62
                        However, this is a trend for countries with a Christian culture, alas.

                        No matter how sick she was, she died. Now we are talking about a country with the population and economy of Mexico (and this is at best), located between two empires: the traditional one, the European one, and the empire of the new era, the People's Republic of China. Organizing special military operations on the outskirts of neighboring empires (Eastern Europe and Central Asia, respectively) is a game with a predictable result.
                      6. 0
                        18 December 2023 08: 20
                        China is not an empire; traders are fundamentally incapable of resolving issues quickly and efficiently by force. This is exactly what we are seeing between them and Taiwan, on our outskirts.
                        I agree with the absurdity of starting a roach, having squandered all the possibilities of a surgical solution to the issue of preventing the creation of a hostile Bandera abscess and an economy at the level of Mexico. But once you get involved, you can’t back down. Another conspiracy will end badly for the fighters. The call has already been made. And we saw enough of anarchy and bandit lawlessness in the 90s.
                      7. 0
                        18 December 2023 08: 56
                        Quote: Essex62
                        With absurdity, start vobla,

                        I don’t understand, can it be simpler? Which roach to start with?
                      8. +1
                        18 December 2023 09: 33
                        The same one that is a strange police operation and which could have been avoided by not recognizing the Bandera coup and strangling it in the very bud. Because it all started there with the usual fuss of stoned people
                        there was no smell of football fans and not even close to any Amerz. It is harsh to declare that there is no independent Ukraine and to filter its “elite” with either soft or hard power. It was necessary to work proactively, and not to trade hydrocarbons and shove the margin into one’s purse. What about the hucksters, they don’t know how to do that.
                      9. 0
                        18 December 2023 11: 39
                        Quote: Essex62
                        The same one that is a strange police operation and which could have been avoided by not recognizing the Bandera coup and strangling it in the very bud.

                        Yes, I’ve been writing about this for almost ten years.
                      10. 0
                        18 December 2023 12: 43
                        Many people understand, but nothing can be done. The system has become ossified and bronzed.
          2. 0
            17 December 2023 23: 13
            Quote: Essex62
            But ours is not a war, but a “police” operation. Return of "lost" territories. It is impossible to agree to the legitimacy of the Belovezhskaya Conspiracy, because without an idea, it is difficult to fight for one loot. That’s what many who pull the burden of SVO think, but those in the towers don’t think so. The country needs leaders who are not afraid for their money and who will officially voice this idea.

            There are no “lost territories” there.
            Ukraine was not part of Russia.
            RSFSR, USSR, BSSR and other USSR
            1. 0
              18 December 2023 06: 59
              And what? A single socialist state, with uniform laws and authority, with its center in the capital of Russia. And the population there is mainly Russian. South Russian. A handful of Polish flops, no matter what their tribe, don’t count.
        2. 0
          17 December 2023 19: 42
          Quote: Negro
          Quote: Belisarius
          without recognizing any territories of Ukraine, including Crimea, as the Russian Federation.

          This is completely impossible. In the modern world (after WWII), there is a ban on changing borders as a result of wars, except by identifying a new country. Some Northern Cyprus has been an “unrecognized republic” for 50 years.

          Yes you are sooooo...
          Israel jumped beyond its legal borders by number of wars - not even just one war. And what’s with the “non-recognition of Israel’s borders”?
          Now the Gaza Strip will be squeezed out and again it will be “this is different!!!”...
          1. -1
            17 December 2023 19: 47
            Quote: your1970
            And what’s with the “non-recognition of Israel’s borders”?

            Exactly the same. There are internationally recognized borders of Israel and there is territory actually controlled by it. And it’s not like Zaporozhye, where the capital of Israel, according to Israel, is located outside its internationally recognized borders: therefore, most embassies are located not in Jerusalem, but in Tel Aviv.
    3. 0
      16 December 2023 09: 33
      capable, but this requires an army of several million people
      1. +19
        16 December 2023 10: 08
        Quote: VZEM100
        capable, but this requires an army of several million people

        No, for this we needed aerospace forces equipped with appropriate equipment that could establish air supremacy over Ukraine.
        1. +2
          17 December 2023 01: 50
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          No, for this we needed videoconferencing with the appropriate equipment

          By the way, you seemed to want to write an article “Russian Aerospace Forces against the united NATO Air Forces in Europe as of 2020.” Did I miss it by chance?
          1. +2
            17 December 2023 08: 41
            Quote: Negro
            By the way, you seemed to want to write an article “Russian Aerospace Forces against the united NATO Air Forces in Europe as of 2020.”

            There was such an idea at your request.
            Quote: Negro
            Did I miss it by chance?

            No, we didn't miss it. But there was little point in writing it - almost all the theses that I gave there were confirmed. I have a few errors in the forecast, but not particularly critical (for example, the production of the Su-30 was curtailed, which I did not expect, but the MiG-31 was modernized much more than expected) and this did not affect the final conclusions
            1. +2
              17 December 2023 11: 11
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              There was such an idea at your request.

              Well, not exactly a request. So, laugh. Even then, such works were amusing against the backdrop of the relatively adequate series “A Sad Look into the Future.”
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              but the MiG-31 was modernized much more than expected

              )))
              I have always treated with irony a special category of turbo-patriots who declare that out of several possible solutions in the military field, the leadership of the USSR (late/middle/any) and the Russian Federation unerringly chose and is choosing 100% sabotage. However, I cannot help but admit that such a point of view has some basis.
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              this did not affect the final conclusions

              in the foreseeable future, the Russian Federation can achieve parity in the air with NATO in the event of a sudden large-scale conflict.


              Glad to hear that. And then, I must admit, I began to feel slightly worried about this.
              1. +3
                17 December 2023 11: 18
                Quote: Negro
                Well, not exactly a request. So, laugh.

                So you will laugh no matter what is written. A picture has formed in your head, something that doesn’t fit into it makes you laugh. You see the problems of the Russian Federation, the problems of Europe do not.
                Quote: Negro
                in the foreseeable future, the Russian Federation can achieve parity in the air with NATO in the event of a sudden large-scale conflict.

                Yes. Moreover, it followed from the context that - at the initial stage of the conflict
                Ensuring air superiority will depend entirely on the speed of transfer of American air forces from US territory to Europe.
                1. 0
                  17 December 2023 13: 27
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  You see the problems of the Russian Federation, but not the problems of Europe.

                  Well why? I follow the activities of the European Union with delight. It needs to get to the point where the current leadership of the Russian Federation seems to be basically rational politicians - grandfathers are not without quirks, of course, but they are basically sane.
                  The nuance is that you won’t be able to get from Avdeevka directly to Berlin.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  transfer of American air forces from US territory to Europe

                  What the hell is the USA? The “cordon sanitaire” copes quite well on its own. Let those who have bad old plans come up with new plans.
                  1. 0
                    17 December 2023 14: 18
                    Quote: Negro
                    The nuance is that you won’t be able to get from Avdeevka directly to Berlin

                    Who's talking about Berlin?
                    Quote: Negro
                    What the hell is the USA? The “cordon sanitaire” copes quite well on its own.

                    yes, yes, of course :))))) For example, the Luftwaffe, which has the functions of electronic warfare, radio reconnaissance and reconnaissance, along with the suppression of air defense on three dozen pre-ancient "Tornados" (I wonder, at least five or seven on the wing?) And the warning system Does the radar still work on 4 Eurofighters? Or has it already been fixed? The minimum flying time was still the same for half of the pilots, or was it already less?
                    Der Inspekteur der Luftwaffe, Generalleutnant Ingo Gerhartz, beklagt, dass die Technik der Luftwaffe teils „museumsreif“ sei. „Unser aktueller Transporthubschrauber beispielsweise steht auch schon im Deutschen Museum. Und um den Tornado in die Luft zu bekommen, ist erheblicher Aufwand notwendig. Auf eine Flugstunde kommen fast 200 Technikerstunden“
                    1. +2
                      17 December 2023 20: 17
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      Who's talking about Berlin?

                      If we are looking for a country that, through incredible efforts, with full international support, has destroyed its military-industrial complex and armed forces for decades, then the first that comes to mind, of course, is Ukraine - we see the results of the activities of the Russian Armed Forces in this direction.

                      The second one that comes to mind is Germany - but the trouble is that the future Leipzig and Dresden People's Republics are not quite close to the border. Between them and the Russian Federation there are countries that did not engage in pacification.

                      So yes, I am more or less aware of German characteristics. I will say more, only the hypocrisy of the GDR Komsomol prevented Germany from leaving NATO and eliminating the armed forces altogether. Grandfather worked when he was young, now you, young Pole, work for your grandfather.
                      1. 0
                        17 December 2023 21: 36
                        Quote: Negro
                        Between them and the Russian Federation there are countries that did not engage in pacification.

                        POLAND?!!! Seriously?:)))))
                        Negro.... 36 F-16 Block 52 with 30 MiG-29s, if they have not yet been transferred to Ukraine? Without AWACS, without reconnaissance aircraft, without electronic warfare?
                        Are you already making jokes with the poor Jew? Is THIS why you are going to fight with the Russian Federation? wassat
                      2. -2
                        17 December 2023 21: 41
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        36 F-16 Block 52 with 30 MiG-29s, if they have not yet been transferred to Ukraine? Without AWACS, without reconnaissance aircraft, without electronic warfare?

                        Well, you see. I'm telling you, you're off topic.

                        And the MiG-29 is generally the most ridiculous aircraft after the MiG-31. So that's where he goes.
                      3. +1
                        18 December 2023 08: 24
                        Quote: Negro
                        Well, you see. I'm telling you, you're off topic.

                        Well, tell me about the AWACS and EW squadrons of the Polish Air Force :)))))
                      4. 0
                        18 December 2023 08: 42
                        You no longer give the impression of a person who is able to absorb new information. Times change, people change.

                        Until recently, the focus was on NATO-wide AWACS. In connection with well-known events, this point of view was revised. The first Polish SAAB has already arrived, the second in 2024. In terms of electronic warfare/electronic warfare, we are waiting for penguins. True, you are not waiting, since the penguins are still not ready for a cannon fight.

                        Now Poland’s main task is to connect all the junk that is already working or will work in the coming years with each other. If it works out, we will see the first full-fledged “top floor” of the armed forces in Europe after 91.

                        The Poles are also doing well on the other floors.

                        Of course, we assess the situation as it was before the elections. Eurocomrade Tusk can screw it all up, it doesn’t take much intelligence. Let's see.
                      5. 0
                        18 December 2023 09: 00
                        Quote: Negro
                        You've stopped making an impression

                        Negro, the impression I make on you is the last thing I care about in this life.
                        Quote: Negro
                        The first Polish SAAB has already arrived, the second in 2024.

                        You talked about 2020. Sclerosis?
                        Quote: Negro
                        In the electronic warfare/electronic warfare department we are waiting for penguins.

                        Which are NOT RTR-EW aircraft AT ALL.
                        Quote: Negro
                        Now Poland’s main task is to connect all the junk that is already working or will work in the coming years with each other.

                        Penguin does not have the Growler modification, and even the latter is not self-sufficient - he needs more serious aircraft for company. Two Saabs (not now, but someday later) are much funnier than 7 A-50U
                        That is, even with all these innovations, Poland will not come close to forming a harmonious air force
                      6. +1
                        18 December 2023 10: 21
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        You talked about 2020.

                        2020 is interesting only in the sense of laughing at your predictions. By itself it is not relevant. For better or for worse, one of the sides of your West 2021 had to take an exam. And it did not fall to the degenerates from the Luftwaffe.
                        “Everyone in this room... received at least a “Satisfactory” rating.” Neville Longbottom...who took the exam at the Longbottom house...received "Excellent". But one student who is no longer with us... received a Disgusting mark that will forever remain on her record... because she failed the only important exam... she had this year. I would rate her even lower... but that would be in bad taste.

                        There was complete silence in the hall, although many stared indignantly at the professor.

                        “Someone might think that this assessment is...unfair.” That Miss Granger was facing an exam... for which she was not prepared. What they didn’t tell her... was that there would be an exam that day.

                        The Defense Professor took a deep breath.

                        “That's realism,” said Professor Quirrell. - The most important exam... can come at any moment... we need to prepare for it better... than she did.

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Penguin does not have the Growler modification,

                        The Penguin is an armed growler.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        he needs more serious aircraft for company

                        B-52H CCJ, apparently. There’s no way without a third world war.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Two Saabs (not now, but someday later) are much funnier than 7 A-50U
                        That is, even with all these innovations, Poland will not come close to forming a harmonious air force

                        Only the A-50 is funnier than the A-100U. The Poles’ task now is to master all the technologies that they have received or will receive in the near future. This is a matter of several years. Then it makes sense to think about what needs to be added for a harmonious air force.

                        On the other hand, if in the time that the Poles need, you learn to evaluate not the potential of the European part of NATO, but the potential of the Baltic Entente, Poland, Finland and Ukraine, this will be a big step forward in terms of adequacy. That is, in your case, a big step back.
                      7. 0
                        18 December 2023 10: 50
                        Quote: Negro
                        2020 is interesting only in the sense of laughing at your predictions.

                        So the predictions came true :)))) Laughter for no reason?
                        Quote: Negro
                        The Penguin is an armed growler.

                        Yes, yes, and Leopard-2 is a kind of “Star Destroyer” on tracks.
                        The Negro, firstly, is armed with a growler, and secondly, the Penguin is just a multifunctional fighter, and in principle it cannot perform the functions of an electronic warfare aircraft. To perform such tasks, the penguin has neither the required equipment nor the operators of this equipment. That is why the United States, along with penguins, continues to actively develop a line of specialized RTR and electronic warfare aircraft
                        Quote: Negro
                        Only the A-50 is funnier than the A-100U.

                        But this is for sure - laughter for no reason. Or is it trolling?
      2. +8
        16 December 2023 13: 22
        Under the current system, the Russian Federation will not be able to concentrate several million combat-ready combatants there.
      3. 0
        17 December 2023 23: 19
        Quote: VZEM100
        capable, but this requires an army of several million people

        Back in that February. Which no one would allow. Even then, Zelya would have had a couple of cannonballs lying around under the tree.
        And apparently, they are already lying around... (as the second year of brakes hints at)
    4. +4
      17 December 2023 02: 03
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Now the only bet is on attrition.

      The word "starvation" is not suitable. The bet is that it will just get boring. How the Taliban (allowed in the Russian Federation) or Assad “starved out”: they simply gave up on them.

      In the USA there are elections every 2 years, and the SVO will never end.
    5. 0
      18 December 2023 15: 05
      How not to starve ourselves to death with such starvation? hi
  5. -7
    16 December 2023 07: 28
    And what are the similarities? Iraq, with a double advantage, was unable to take 20 km with a blitzkrieg. Russia with half its strength went from ukry to Kyiv. The fact that they were waiting for local support, but they didn’t come? So the fascists in the Second World War expected the same thing. Why then can’t it be compared with the Second World War? Positional deadlock for 8 years Mesilov? It hasn't been like this for another 8 years, and it looks like it won't happen. In general, no clear arguments, just a desire to put an owl on the globe of Ukraine.
    1. +5
      16 December 2023 08: 32
      part of the province of Khuzestan with its rich oil fields was captured, but the predominant Arab population of this province, contrary to expectations, did not side with the Iraqi army


      But we held a referendum in our Khuzestan. And the people of Khuzestan are all FOR! But Saddam didn't think of it.
    2. +2
      16 December 2023 13: 22
      The length of the Iraq-Iran border (then the front line) is greater than the Russian border with 404. What 20 km is the song about? And Iran's population was then three times larger than Iraq's. But the Kurds in the north really helped the Iranians, and for the officers of the Iraqi army, transfer to Kurdistan was like a punishment. There they were shot in the back and escorted along mountain paths by Iranian DRGs
    3. +6
      16 December 2023 13: 32
      A double advantage is not enough for a successful attack. The Russian army, like Iraq, demonstrated this. In the first days, the number of members of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was significantly less than today and there was a factor of surprise, thanks solely to which they reached Kyiv at all. It’s not far from the border of Belarus to the suburbs of Kyiv. Russian troops also quickly reached the center of Grozny in the New Year’s assault
      1. +6
        16 December 2023 22: 51
        A successful attack requires good planning, camouflage, logistics, military motivation, etc. The actions in the Kharkov region in February-March were so stupid that, firstly, it is difficult to explain by incompetence, it looks more like a mass betrayal, and secondly, it’s good that the enemies turned out to be stupid too, otherwise there would have been a repetition of the Finnish campaign of 1940. Only there Stalin quickly realized what was what and in two months the army, one might say, was born again, and now they have moved from degenerative insanity to the degree of mild dementia in two years
    4. +1
      16 December 2023 20: 13
      What did the Nazis expect in WWII when they and their satellites had 5 million troops, and the USSR had 3.2 million?
  6. +19
    16 December 2023 07: 31
    The author described in detail the goals of the parties in the Iran-Iraq war, but at the same time kept silent about the true goals of the North Military District, without trying to fool the audience about denazification with demilitarization, etc.... and thanks for that.
    And he also failed to mention the complete failure of the fantasies and expectations of the Kremlin “wise men”:
    - the blitzkrieg by the ceremonial regiments was not a success...the fascist ideology strengthened many times in their brains..The Armed Forces of Ukraine were not defeated and did not lose their combat capability.
    - no one was waiting for us on the outskirts with flowers and loaves of bread or meeting us... the Russian-speaking population, who were going to liberate, is frantically fighting along with the Westerners against ours... godfather, godfather, kept coming across...
    Someday the whole truth about the background and true goals of the SVO will become known...nothing and no one lasts forever under the sun.
    The worst thing is if all this turns out to be his personal ambitions and desire to retain power at any cost...
    1. +21
      16 December 2023 08: 10
      Quote: kepmor
      The worst thing is if all this turns out to be his personal ambitions and desire to retain power at any cost...


      I'm almost sure that's the case...
      We started it to quickly raise our ratings, but now we can’t finish it so as not to “lose face”... sad

      The winning strategy is still unclear. Wait by the sea for weather until the West gets tired? What if he doesn’t get tired? And why should he get tired when he is exterminating Russians with the wrong hands?
      Wait by the sea for weather until the Ukrainians run out? So how many Russian citizens will die while the Ukrainians run out?

      For now there is a complete dead end and there is no end in sight.
      1. +6
        16 December 2023 23: 09
        Quote: Shoulder straps
        For now there is a complete dead end and there is no end in sight.

        According to the folk... complete ass!
      2. man
        +8
        17 December 2023 02: 31
        and how many Russian citizens will die while the Ukrainians run out?
        Bravo! hi But for some reason no one on TV bothers with this! request am
        1. +7
          17 December 2023 03: 57
          There is such a moment that the “hurray for patriots” on both sides of the front are absolutely not interested in their losses, Ukrainians discuss exclusively Russian losses, and Russians exclusively discuss Ukrainian ones. And on TV, what do we have and what do they have, there is a discussion of problems exclusively “What do they have!?”, and never “What do we have here?”
    2. +23
      16 December 2023 09: 12
      Quote: kepmor
      The worst thing is if all this turns out to be his personal ambitions and desire to retain power at any cost...
      Frederick the Great comes to mind: “If our soldiers understood why we are fighting, no war would be possible.” hi
    3. -22
      16 December 2023 12: 16
      Quote: kepmor
      The worst thing is if all this turns out to be his personal ambitions and desire to retain power at any cost...

      And if not, and it is NOT personal ambitions and NOT the desire to retain power, then what? Will you eat your hat? Will you shoot yourself? Will you modestly remain silent? Tell me that he is supposed to lead the country forward in his position?
      I’m wondering what the “all-lost people” will say when we occupy Kyiv?
      “This is unshielded!(c)???
      1. +17
        16 December 2023 15: 11
        Quote: your1970
        I’m wondering what the “all-lost people” will say when we occupy Kyiv?
        You will take it from the sofa hi
        “Soldiers are buried naked,” said another, “and the uniform of the dead is put on the living.” So it goes one by one.
        “Until we win the war,” said Schweik.
        “Such a lackey orderly will win!” the detached man responded from the corner. “They should go to the front, drive you into the trenches with bayonets, to hell, into wire fences, into wolf pits, against mortars.” Everyone knows how to chill out in the rear, but no one wants to die at the front.
        1. -10
          16 December 2023 20: 55
          Quote: Stirbjorn
          Everyone knows how to chill out in the rear, but no one wants to die at the front.

          Well, then let’s abolish the army completely - they can all be killed. At the same time, we’ll save money for pensioners - instead of tanks / planes ...
          So on Your logic????
          And yes, I will repeat my question -
          Quote: your1970
          I’m wondering what the “all-lost people” will say when we occupy Kyiv?
      2. +6
        16 December 2023 23: 06
        And if not, and it is NOT personal ambitions and NOT the desire to retain power, then what? Will you eat your hat? Will you shoot yourself? Will you modestly remain silent?

        What did Putin do when he promised that there would be no increase in the retirement age, but there was?
        When he promised that there would be no mobilization, but there was one?
        He always did the same thing when he broke his word - he modestly remained silent.
        This means that we need to modestly remain silent, but the bosses know how to do it.
      3. +7
        17 December 2023 01: 46
        Quote: your1970
        I’m wondering what the “all-lost people” will say when we occupy Kyiv?

        When “you” take over, then we’ll discuss it. If anyone is alive and not banned.
        1. -5
          17 December 2023 11: 06
          Quote: Negro
          Quote: your1970
          I’m wondering what the “all-lost people” will say when we occupy Kyiv?

          When "you“If you borrow, then we’ll discuss it. If anyone is alive and not banned.

          "I"- separately from Russia, alas, I can’t. I could have taken it a long time ago...
          Since it was started, it will still have to be finished our victory.
          Otherwise, there will be collapse and collapse - even if all the oligarchs up to the regional level are hung on poles. Winners almost always (with rare exceptions) dictate their terms
          1. +4
            17 December 2023 11: 30
            Quote: your1970
            Since it was started, it will still have to end with our victory.

            They started - they didn’t ask you, and when they finished, they didn’t ask you.
            Quote: your1970
            Otherwise, collapse and collapse

            Staff Captain Girkin liked to talk about it. By the way, where is he?
            Quote: your1970
            Winners are almost always

            Luckily for you, the winner wrote articles last spring that he didn’t care and that, in principle, everything suited him. I don’t understand at all how in what crazy world the United States could not be satisfied with the actions of the leadership of the Russian Federation throughout its existence.
            1. -2
              17 December 2023 18: 51
              Quote: Negro
              They started - they didn’t ask you, and when they finished, they didn’t ask you.

              As well as you.
              Quote: Negro
              Staff Captain Girkin liked to talk about it. By the way, where is he?

              Not interested
              Quote: Negro
              Luckily for you, the winner wrote articles last spring that he didn’t care and that, in principle, everything suited him.

              NDA?
              Quote: Negro
              . I don't understand at all what a crazy world USA may not have been satisfied with the actions of the leadership of the Russian Federation throughout its existence.
              в your -
              Quote: Negro
              crazy world
              where the actions of the Russian Federation strictly complied with the requirements of the United States.
              In the usual real world - even alkonaut Borka with the MSG Secretary General not always danced to the tune of the United States. Even these Christ sellers sometimes moved meeeeeeeeeeeely...
              Otherwise, today we would have transgender school teachers and there would be no Strategic Missile Forces
              1. +3
                17 December 2023 20: 39
                Quote: your1970
                The fight with the Secretary General of the MSG did not always dance to the tune of the United States

                Oh, these fascists. Only Sikhs elevate everything to absolutes.
                Quote: your1970
                Otherwise today we had school teachers of transgender

                This is not available everywhere in the States either.
                Quote: your1970
                there would be no Strategic Missile Forces

                In reality, the States took part in the transfer of all Soviet nuclear junk from the republics to the Russian Federation. Rumors about the concerns of American politicians in this regard are greatly exaggerated - otherwise, for example, one chubby guy there would not have been alive for a long time.
                1. -2
                  18 December 2023 08: 32
                  Quote: Negro
                  In reality, the States took part in the transfer of all Soviet nuclear junk from the republics to the Russian Federation. Rumors about the concerns of American politicians in this regard are greatly exaggerated

                  I know.
                  Regarding anxiety, you are wrong. The anxiety was extremely strong
                  Moreover, I took part in the work to equip checkpoints on the borders of the Russian Federation with the Yantar system. The system was ours, but the financing of production and deployment was American.
                  They were very afraid then of spreading
                  Quote: Negro
                  one there chubby has been dead for a long time.

                  Who is this?
              2. +1
                18 December 2023 12: 59
                Quote: your1970
                even alkonaut Borka and the MSG Secretary General did not always dance to the tune of the United States.

                Well, yes, I remember the delight when Primakov turned the plane around. And when did Gorby speak out against the United States, remember?
                1. 0
                  18 December 2023 19: 56
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  And when did Gorby speak out against the United States, remember?
                  - when you didn’t subscribe to complete destruction of nuclear weapons. I don’t know why...maybe my conscience got into my head, maybe they didn’t give me enough money.
                  With this question, you should ask the Central Committee and its Politburo - why did they appoint MSG as leader and what got them through this and why didn’t they sell nuclear weapons...
    4. +9
      16 December 2023 14: 49
      I see a smart person with a smart post.
      Thank you.
      The funniest thing is that if you mentioned the name Putin in a negative way, and not “godfather screwed up”, you would have caught some minuses :)
      We have a real treasure trove of jingoistic patriots here, everyone understands what you’re writing about and agrees, but you can’t convince the tsar to have smart thoughts - people’s brains immediately turn off and the negatives fly away :)
      and if you don’t mention your last name, they add pluses :)
      PS: for those who just want to understand something a little. Look for a video of how our people were met in Kharkov in the first days of the Northern Military District. When our columns passed by the park, local student boys and girls threw Molotov cocktails from the bushes and suffered our losses. And then our response was given in the bushes.
      The video is strong, there are many of them from different angles and from different participants. But it's a tough video.
      That’s when the understanding began that, unfortunately, they weren’t expecting us with flowers.
      1. -2
        16 December 2023 18: 31
        The Hitler Youth was raised from 33 to 1945. Young Bandera members officially began in 1991, but unofficially this process has been going on continuously since 1941. Ukrainian agents carry out terrorist attacks on the territory of the Russian Federation. It would be strange if everyone in Kharkov were for Russia, especially young people. As the Americans say, a kind word and a Winchester are more convincing than just a kind word. Everything is in the hands of the winner.
        1. +8
          16 December 2023 23: 08
          It would be strange if everyone in Kharkov were for Russia, especially young people. As the Americans say, a kind word and a Winchester are more convincing than just a kind word. Everything is in the hands of the winner.

          For someone to be for Russia, Russia must show something good, and not Kadyrov’s videos.
          1. 0
            17 December 2023 15: 25
            Nettle! And what is this, “something good” from your point of view. Judging by the positives, Ukraine shows only good things. Let's consider: the burning of Russians in Odessa, extrajudicial killings of our prisoners, prisoners were shot in the knees as a result of which they died in agony from painful shock, the murder of Oles Buzina in Kyiv. You can, of course, turn your cheeks, but the Bible also contains an eye for an eye and blood for blood. Calm down, lovers of the Ukrainian way of life, and admirers of independent democracy.
    5. +5
      16 December 2023 20: 15
      What does personal ambition have to do with it, we read classics from 150 years ago about capitalism and imperialism, about the interests of capital, etc., everything was written a long time ago
  7. +5
    16 December 2023 07: 44
    Did you notice the similarities?
    We are waiting for arms supplies from the USA to Russia! laughing
    1. +2
      17 December 2023 15: 11
      Easily. If you need it. You misunderstand the ideology of the States. They do not need either Ukraine or Russia. That's why we fight. The main thing is that they fight and kill each other.
  8. +24
    16 December 2023 08: 24
    There really are similar external elements, the author is right. But the essence of the conflict is still different.
    There it was a regional conflict of two partly subject states within the framework of a stable bipolar world order (although the USSR was already declining), here formally it is a conflict between two participants in global capitalism, de facto a conflict between the Russian Federation and the West generated by the desire of the post-Soviet authorities of the Russian Federation to bargain for their own small plot of land in world of global capitalism.
    The fact is that the mafia power of the changed communists is unnecessary for the globalists, and after the Yeltsin-Putin regime has fulfilled its historical mission of dismantling Soviet civilization, it should be scheduled to be rotated to even more “democratic authorities”. This is a standard process for the former Soviet republics, nothing special.
    But specifically for Putin and Co. this is a catastrophe—the loss of power and, in the conditions of the Russian Federation, property inseparable from it. Hence the conflict with the goal of reaching a peace agreement that “takes into account the interests of Russia,” that is, raising the status of the authorities of the Russian Federation to junior partners and retaining their power over their zone of control.
    1. 0
      16 December 2023 22: 56
      Quote: Belisarius
      The fact is that the mafia power of the changed communists is unnecessary for the globalists, and after the Yeltsin-Putin regime has fulfilled its historical mission of dismantling Soviet civilization, it should be scheduled to be rotated to even more “democratic authorities”. This is a standard process for the former Soviet republics, nothing special.

      The rulers of the world don’t need any competitors, be it mafia or Martian, it’s not enough for them! How many did Guterres say, 14 families control half the world economy? So they would happily eat each other, but move because of the fools who, for promising to let them stand at the master’s table, cut down the branch on which they were sitting? Yes, they rather feel disgust, they probably know what really happened
  9. +9
    16 December 2023 08: 28
    Our soldiers from the Northern Military District come on vacation. And already the second one says the same thing. At the beginning there were problems with uniforms, ammunition, with everything. Now there are no problems. Everything is provided! But there are some misunderstandings. We hammer, take up positions and receive an order to retreat. Not to retreat, but to retreat. There is no order to advance! They say that if there had been an order long ago, they would have reached Kyiv and Transnistria!
    And it also appeared on REN TV several times. They are expanding their positions, but are in no hurry to occupy territory. But I think Avdeevka should be liberated by March. Before the elections, we need to brag about something.
    1. +5
      16 December 2023 10: 25
      They are expanding their positions, but are in no hurry to occupy territory.
      So as not to fall under Ukrainian artillery shelling.
    2. +4
      16 December 2023 12: 03
      I heard that too. But they are afraid because there is no counteraction to drones and artillery. The point of taking these positions is if there are guaranteed casualties later. That’s why they remain in fortified positions.
      1. +4
        16 December 2023 23: 10
        The point of taking these positions is if there are guaranteed casualties later.

        Why then were they hammered and occupied?
        1. -1
          17 December 2023 09: 30
          Good question. They just didn’t borrow in many cases. Most likely, they want to destroy more of the enemy’s manpower and less of their own losses. And judging by the way they serve subpoenas in the most unexpected places, it works.
  10. -2
    16 December 2023 09: 44
    Both countries - Iran and Iraq - are established states. In this case, Ukraine is a puppet that is being pulled by the strings. And I believe Trump, who said that he could stop the war in XNUMX hours. Cut the strings and the puppet will fall. How long will Ukraine last without external help? This and that.
    As for the beginning - in my sofa-like opinion, there were two opinions, two points of view in the leadership. First, we will stage a “palace coup”, we will take the Rada, the government, and the General Staff quickly, with small forces, no one will rock the boat, they will sign the laws we need, and that’s it, the goals will be achieved. Secondly, we will have to fight. Long and bloody.
    The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Foreign Intelligence Service are, by definition, antagonistic structures, but they do one task - inform senior management about what is happening abroad. I hope that they conveyed to management how it really is. We all see which point of view prevailed.
    1. +2
      16 December 2023 21: 54
      And I believe Trump

      "And I believe in magicians, sorcerers." Trump is a politician, and a hardened politician at that. Perhaps he really could stop the war if he becomes president. But there are big doubts about what will really stop her.
    2. +6
      17 December 2023 01: 41
      Quote: Not the fighter
      And I believe Trump, who said that he could stop the war in XNUMX hours. Cut the strings and the puppet will fall

      Let me remind you that Trump is the first US president since Eisenhower who simply killed our boys in 2018. For contrast, let me remind you that Johnson and Nixon killed the Americans in Vietnam without counting, but they blew away specks of dust from our boys. So the irrepressible optimism regarding his person seems more than strange to me.
      Quote: Not the fighter
      How long will Ukraine last without external help? This and that.

      The Taliban held out against the Americans for 20 years, Chechnya against the Russian Federation for 10.
      1. 0
        18 December 2023 15: 17
        I also don’t understand how it will be better for the Russian Federation if the presidency is occupied by a Republican and not a Democrat; in my opinion, these are two sides of the same coin and all their “disagreements” are only for domestic consumption.
    3. +6
      17 December 2023 04: 08
      In 2014-2015, when some people were wondering why we weren’t introducing wax into Ukraine as they did in Crimea, a well-edited video was circulating on the RuNet where the general message was “The United States only wants Putin to send troops to Ukraine and start a war.” ! Support the president in his decision not to follow the lead of the Americans! "...And what about Ukraine? At the beginning of the ATO, Ukraine barely scraped together 6000 soldiers, a year later there were 18000, two years later 48000, and now there are already several hundred thousand. That is, they waited for 8 years for the West to pump arms into Ukraine, for the Ukrainian authorities to clear out all pro-Russian opponents, fortifications to be built and soldiers to be trained.... And only then (and not in 2014) did the SVO begin
      1. +1
        17 December 2023 15: 39
        Then, in 2014, there was no need for SVO. Just force (and help with special forces) the Yanuca to squash the raging herb, before the striped ones become involved in this process. As Father did, as they did later in Kazakhstan. The problem is that the fighters, with their anti-Soviet beliefs, did not perceive the Banderlogs as a hostile force. There was another chance to turn it to our advantage - to finish off the Debaltsevo cauldron and Kiev. The towers were waiting for it to resolve itself and for them to come to an agreement.
  11. +2
    16 December 2023 09: 48
    In fact, the main and main result of the Iran-Iraq war is the formation of the Iranian nation in its modern form, due to the fact that several million Iranians went through this war.
    1. +4
      16 December 2023 12: 41
      In general, where is our interlocutor, the Persian, who taught us here how to fight aircraft carriers? Why doesn’t he say his opinion about the similarities between their war and ours? Friend, where are you?
      1. +1
        19 December 2023 02: 14
        Quote: Galleon
        Why doesn't he say his opinion about the similarities between their war and ours? Friend, where are you?

        in my opinion there are so many critical differences that make it irrelevant to the current conflict.
        Iraq was preparing for that war for years, Russia on the other hand was forced to take action so wasn't prepared for prolonged war.
        the most important difference is the fact that Iraq had not only the green light of the world, it was encouraged to attack too and supported by two superpower+ EU +Arabs money and volunteers while Russia only got meaningful support from Iran
        Ukraine has the support of almost every one but Iran who unlike Ukraine truly was a victim of war of expansion was sanctioned and embargoed to be stripped of any abilities to defend itself. (they underestimated Persian resilience) and they have audacity to tell Iran it shouldn't give weapons to aggressor, are they think we forgot how they give everything they could to Saddam.
        Sadam used every dirty tactic on the side against Iran like using chemical weapons on not only military targets but on civilian in contrast in current conflict its Ukraine that use dirty tactic like suicide bombing and terrorism that killed Mr. Doujin's daughter so the only similarity is the fact that both Iraq and Russia expected a fast win
        btw France in particular was unusually committed to make sure Iran get destroyed to a degree that sent French pilots because takes time to train the Iraqi pilots and when that wasn't enough they became so frustrated that decided to give nuke to Saddam to use on Iran but thank god Iran's intelligence service found out and destroyed the Iraqi nuclear facility in operation scorched sword but France that was determined to destroy Iran rebuild the infrastructure in less than 2 year and because Iran didn't have the element of surprise anymore they meet with Israeli officers ironically in France and give them all the information to do the job but Israel was to afraid to do it so Iran agreed to wipe the Iraqi airbase that was on Israeli side of Iraq and made Israel fearful so Iran through an operation recognized as the most complex air force operation in the world (operation H3) destroyed the air base and next day as they planned Israel bombed the nuclear site and when France saw the Israel too do not want to see nuke capable Sadam, they didn't repaired the site anymore .it's amazing how Israeli domination on media let people to think they did it
        1. +1
          19 December 2023 07: 48
          Thank you! A fresh look from the outside is always interesting. It’s a pity that you did not participate in the discussion of the article; the relevance of this discussion has been reduced and few will read your detailed answer. For me, Iran is the oldest civilization on earth that exists today, thanks to the resilience of the people and the independence of the leaders. Thanks for the help.
          1. +1
            19 December 2023 11: 48
            Iran is the oldest civilization on earth that exists today, thanks to the resilience of the people and the independence of the leaders. Thanks for the help.

            Thanks; I appreciate that, and it means a lot to me.
            Although Russia would have been the winner regardless of Iran's help, something that Iran is known for in the Middle East's people's minds is the fact that if you are considered an ally by Iran, Iran will never abandon you, no matter what it costs Iran to remain on your side. and this is known even among Iran's enemies.
            so, you can be sure Iran would send its troops if was necessary because Iran began to see Russia as an ally. After Russia realized that the so-called will never accept Russia as one of them, Russia has gained clarity about who is the enemy. There is already evidence of that, such as when the IRGC, in conversation with Mr. Putin, offered to send the IRGC to defend Moscow if Mr. Putin had any doubts about the army's loyalty during the failed Wagner military coup.
            In regard to acceptance, some pro-Westerners might say that the West accepted Germany after World War II, so they will accept Russia if Russia shows that it is not the West's enemy.
            But for the West, the cold war never ended because, although the USSR collapsed, Russia didn't submit and kept its independence. Russia will be accepted only if it becomes a vasal and allows the NATO/US base in their soil.
            everything about west is a lie
            In their propaganda, the west is angelic and the east is demonic. They pretend that they care about human rights and blatantly call it western value, which is laughable considering they owned humans until yesterday. And the fact that human rights, which is an eastern value, reached the west directly from Persian influence on the American founding father.
            They tell you Iran has a thirst for Jewish blood, and they are untamed Aryans that want to finish what Hitler started, and this is a universally accepted and known fact about Iran even in Russian minds, but in reality, Jews are so comfortable in Iran that 60,000 dollars and a green cart as a bribe to each one that leaves Iran, offered by Israel, couldn't convince them to leave.
            so be prepared to be accused of the worst, and people accept it as fact.
            We should somehow teach our nations not to accept western news as fact.
            any way
            The first Russian to realize the Russo-Persian alliance is the only way to defeat the evil west was Mr. Doujin, after studying Iran and the Shia faith and traveling there.


            We are in this together to the end west as power.
  12. -3
    16 December 2023 10: 23
    Russia needs to come up with a proposal for a cessation of hostilities and a truce along the front line.
    Zelensky refuses. Claims against him from allies are growing, contradictions within Ukrainian society are growing, Russia’s international positions are strengthening.

    But our gerontocrats don’t believe they’ll go for such a simple two-step, they don’t have the same intelligence.
    1. 0
      16 December 2023 13: 12
      Clear pepper - they need to consult with you. And then you will find out that on 404 there is a law prohibiting negotiations with the Russian Federation. Is law a clear word? Any truce is a respite for the enemy, an opportunity to replenish resources, regroup forces, make a splash in the media, etc..
      1. +3
        16 December 2023 14: 53
        and we have a law on the impossibility of alienating territories of the Russian Federation.
        and Kherson is our city. For some reason, he is now alienated due to “forced difficult decisions.”
        And Kupyansk is the same grandmother with the USSR flag that became a symbol of Patriotism. Where do you think she stayed? namely, that it also remained on the lands, which were forced to “regroup to occupy better positions.”
        We also cannot finish at the current borders of the Northern Military District - there will be a violation of the Law of the Russian Federation.
        And the signatory of this piece of paper will be a criminal, de jure.
        1. +3
          17 December 2023 01: 32
          Quote: Dmitry Ivanov_1991
          the signatory of this piece of paper will be a criminal, de jure.

          And who will arrest him? You, Dmitry Ivanov 1991?
          1. +1
            17 December 2023 13: 50
            why me?
            We have plenty of other blacks. For rough work.
      2. +3
        17 December 2023 04: 11
        When did what laws stop anyone? Our Taliban is a banned organization, but at the same time they come to Moscow for some negotiations
  13. BAI
    +6
    16 December 2023 10: 33
    but the predominant Arab population of this province, contrary to expectations, did not side with the Iraqi army [2].

    Let's replace the Arab population with the Russian one, the province with the Ukraine, and the Iraqi army with the Russian one. Let's get SVO.

    Well, the author wrote about the exhaustion of both sides
    1. -2
      16 December 2023 13: 09
      You will also write about the fate of Saddam, you are our insightful.... Sometimes it seems that there is a reason for the war - too many analysts have appeared and they feel too free on the Internet. But it's an illusion
    2. +3
      17 December 2023 01: 31
      Quote: BAI
      province to Ukraine, Iraqi army to Russian. Let's get SVO.

      Not quite. In the case of the Northern Military District, the sides changed places several times: first, one side had material superiority, and the other had the militia, then vice versa, and so on several times.
  14. -6
    16 December 2023 10: 34
    I don’t understand why Ukraine’s loss is called a stalemate; this is blatant Western propaganda.
    1. +4
      16 December 2023 10: 53
      Losing or winning is determined by the initial goals. It is clear that in the current conditions anyone can declare that the goals have been achieved. Which, in general, does not add much optimism among the people.
      1. -4
        16 December 2023 11: 30
        You can announce anything, but what’s the point? This will not resurrect the dead Ukrainians, just like the fact that the whole of Ukraine has stepped significantly into the Stone Age, so don’t call Ukraine’s loss a dead end, whatever, it’s still a loss.
        1. +6
          16 December 2023 11: 36
          Is the fight specifically with Ukraine? Something they tell us is that the struggle is with the collective West.
          1. -1
            17 December 2023 07: 32
            The collective West is not at all collective, it is a jar of spiders biting each other.
        2. +3
          16 December 2023 21: 43
          This will not resurrect the dead Ukrainians
          Will he resurrect ours???
          1. -2
            17 December 2023 18: 00
            We're talking about dry land, be more careful next time.
            1. +2
              17 December 2023 18: 04
              Quote from Dimm588
              We're talking about dry land, be more careful next time.
              stop The poke has already grown?! Once again for the especially gifted: will someone resurrect our dead or is this something else?! winked
              1. 0
                17 December 2023 18: 06
                We're talking about dry land. ...................
        3. +1
          17 December 2023 04: 13
          Has Ukraine stepped into the Stone Age, or has it been stepped there? Why are you only interested in the resurrection of dead Ukrainians?
          1. -2
            17 December 2023 07: 34
            Ukraine itself chose this path, you know this very well.
  15. +2
    16 December 2023 11: 48
    All wars are the same, all wars are different.
    War, war doesn't change

    Ceterum censeo Washingtonum delendam esse
  16. +4
    16 December 2023 12: 04
    Is it impossible to move away from the cliches? The war in Ukraine is unlike any other. It is neither rewarding nor right to consider military operations separately from politics. It is precisely on the basis of these criteria that all events must be considered. It makes no sense to describe everything that happened and is happening , there is already enough news. By the way, “live war” is also one of the features.
  17. +2
    16 December 2023 12: 15
    In general, it is difficult to talk about victories or non-victories in the current conditions. It is difficult to compare with Iran and Iraq, because it is unlikely that in the past both Iran and Iraq had something similar to what is described below during the confrontation

    For example, the operator of the Echo Online project, operating in conjunction with the Living Nail, is the Berlin company Radio Echo GmbH, recorded by Venediktov’s protégé Maxim Kournikov (screen from the German registry).
    Also, 20% of the same LLC “EMHK” is still registered with a company from the USA “EM Holding Company LLC”: Venediktov reported that it belongs to media manager Vladimir Gusinsky, who left the Russian Federation a long time ago, and that he takes part in various issues of the work of “Echo” .
    Venediktov is now trying to register fewer assets for himself: the “Living Nail” brand in the Russian Federation is registered to an unknown Muscovite Andrei Arkhipov (husband of the deputy editor-in-chief of “Echo” Ekaterina Godlina, now Arkhipova), although the application was submitted on behalf of Venediktov’s LLC “Education - 21st Century” (magazine “Amateur”, government procurement; the company is legally tied to Venediktov’s wife).
    The co-owner of this company through the legal entity “Education - 22nd Century” is the famous investor Alexander Branis (Prosperity Capital) - a long-time partner of Alexander Voloshin and the Family. Branis’s last non-conformist attack dates back to 2019: then he publicly accused Rosneft of mismanaging Bashneft on the Russia Calling forum.
    The union of a journalist with a professional minority shareholder, a friend of Bill Browder and Michael Calvey, is an ambiguous phenomenon in itself, and raises ethical questions for Venediktov.
    And yes, Ekho Moskvy CJSC still exists - it is listed among the existing legal entities.
  18. -9
    16 December 2023 13: 04
    The article is an attempt to put an owl on the globe and clearly smacks of provocation. The author even provided a list of used literature for the sake of science, but almost everything he cited is a myth. More precisely, a mixture of a grain of truth with a large dose of lies, as is customary in propaganda. I not only know this topic - I am a witness and participant in those events. Several years in the Republican Guard (Baghdad and Hammurabi divisions). So - I did not see American weapons in Iraq (captured M-109s do not count). There was ours, Chinese, French, Yugoslav, Brazilian, the entire army used trucks made in the GDR. This time. Two - we introduced an embargo in 1980 and refused to hand over the weapons we had already paid for! The Chinese immediately took advantage of this and flooded Iraq with theirs (almost $5 billion worth of those years). In terms of intensity, the Iraqi Air Force, in some tense moments at the front, carried out up to 1000 sorties per day. A thousand, Karl! Well, etc. The conclusion of the article is “Russia, in turn, has demonstrated its inability to win a convincing victory on the battlefield.” Eh, Biryukov Biryukov...
    1. +5
      16 December 2023 14: 19
      So - I didn’t see American weapons in Iraq

      You just didn't know where to look. Your fiery speech only says that you have absolutely no control over the issue, despite the fact that you are a “direct participant.”
      The attached photo shows an American Bell 214ST helicopter. 45 of these helicopters were sold directly to Iraq for $200 in 000, arguing that they were civilian vehicles. A lot was supplied through third countries, such as aerial bombs. The rest of the weapons that the US supplied to Iraq worth billions of dollars were simply not of American origin. Even spare parts for Soviet equipment were supplied by the Americans, purchasing them through front companies.
  19. +8
    16 December 2023 13: 10
    Quote: Mikhail-Ivanov
    I fundamentally disagree! The SVO has nothing in common with the war indicated in the title.
    Firstly, the North Military District began as an operation to displace the Nazi regime in Kyiv and did not imply the current scale of hostilities.
    Secondly, artillery, aviation, remote mining and UAVs now prevail on the battlefield, which was not the case in the war between Iraq and Iran.
    And most importantly, these companies have different goals. Russia stepped into Ukraine after NATO refused to take its opinion into account. Comparing such goals with the goals of Iran and Iraq is simply ridiculous.

    What a twist! But the Russian authorities have repeatedly stated that they do not have the goal of overthrowing the recognized government in Ukraine... Moreover, immediately after the start of the war they started negotiations with “respected partners.” And the fact that over these couple of years not a single hair has fallen from the heads of representatives of these “respected partners” once again confirms the absurdity of your statements about the “change of Nazi power.”
    1. +3
      16 December 2023 23: 18
      But the Russian authorities have repeatedly stated that they do not have the goal of overthrowing the recognized government in Ukraine...

      Does anyone know their goals? They have repeatedly stated many things, for example, that there will be no increase in the retirement age and there will be no changes to the Constitution.
      There is also the option of not formally overthrowing anyone, but in fact dramatically changing life, it is unknown in which direction, transferring it under the control of Kadyrov’s relatives or someone else, while maintaining the formal sovereignty of Ukraine. Nothing can be said for sure. Our authorities could and may have very different plans. Unfortunately, no one will share these plans with us.
    2. +4
      17 December 2023 04: 17
      Well, the GDP also declared its commitment to the territorial integrity of Ukraine, respect for its people and its history... Which did not stop them from later declaring that Ukraine was Lenin’s idea
  20. +7
    16 December 2023 13: 19
    In principle, the similarities are visible. But there is one "BUT". If the current impasse had arisen in 2014-2015 against the backdrop of a demoralized and destroyed Wehrmacht. However, our army was part of the Ukro-Reich in 2022, when the Ukro-Wehrmacht was already a completely different army. And we can definitely say that the top stepped on a big mistake. IMHO, the main role was played by the vile role of Medvedchuk. I think it was he who sang to the top that they would greet them with flowers, that an army with orchestras would come out to meet them. As a result, objective intelligence reports went into the trash, and the army was guided by Medvedchuk’s nonsense. Who, don’t go to your grandmother, wanted to climb to the hetman’s throne with the help of Russian bayonets. Therefore, the SVO had no prospects for success initially, in the format in which it was conducted.
    And even now, taking into account the ineradicable reverence for the transport infrastructure of the Ukrainian-Reich, hopes for the successful completion of the Northern Military District in the near future are ghosts.
    1. +5
      17 December 2023 04: 20
      So you want to say that when making the decision to start the SVO, Putin was guided not by intelligence data, not by the conclusions of analysts, not by plans developed at headquarters... but stupidly by the fact that Medvedchuk told him something? What is going on?!?!?
      1. +1
        18 December 2023 15: 23
        "What is going on?!?!?"
        This is the question you should have asked on December 14th of this year. hi
  21. +4
    16 December 2023 13: 50
    The reasons for the Iran-Iraq war and the current NWO are, of course, completely different. But what is common is the West's vested interest in the mutual exhaustion of the warring parties. The Anglo-Saxons did the same in World War II. And there are several reasons for the current, fairly protracted course of the war: our bourgeoisie are always ready for agreements and, therefore, do not anger the West; it’s bad that we don’t have professionals at the top of the Defense Ministry - their flawed brains in all previous years did not even think about the real revival of the army - the evidence is precisely in the stagnation at the front, due to the backwardness of the space and aviation reconnaissance group, the lack of normal communications, and the technical backwardness of the artillery , fleet from the west... No matter where you throw it, there’s a wedge everywhere! And the soldier takes the rap - with his health, with his life... Therefore, there is no end in sight to this SVO. But there is no need to be upset - the eloquent guarantor will later explain to us that everything was done correctly, he was just “deceived.” I have already stated more than once that dill and I are one people. By blood - yes, but in fact - no! The Ukrops have long been brainwashed with hatred of Russians. And, if you remember about the Patriotic War of 2-1941, then in Ukraine there was no significant partisan movement (as, for example, in Belarus) - there was only Kovpak in the east and that’s all! But all these UNA, UNSO - as many as you want! Our TV regularly shows thousands of torchlight processions, demonstrations of fascists-Ukrops, galloping Ukrainian youth chanting “Moskalyak to Gilyak”... Dill are a people poisoned to death by the West. But the current situation at the front also has its advantages: hundreds of thousands of Banderaites have been knocked out, hundreds of thousands more will be knocked out... The fewer stubborn dill left, the sooner the terrorist attacks will end and the pan-headed, jumping, dreaming of lace panties Ukrainian Banderaites will have fewer Bandera people. .. Of course, we need an absolute victory and such that dill, as a state, disappears. But it is too optimistic to hope for this, having power with the current guarantor. So we are facing a long fuss with dill and behind-the-scenes agreements with the West...
  22. +2
    16 December 2023 15: 08
    In the first photo is an A-19 cannon from the Great Patriotic War?
  23. +5
    16 December 2023 16: 02
    What kind of positional deadlock can there be in the 21st century? Nonsense. This is an excuse for a brainless General Staff who is unable to calculate the allocation of forces and means for conducting the air defense. Have you ever seen a fight without aviation? Without suppressing air defense? Without isolating the TBD?
    1. +6
      16 December 2023 23: 39
      Quote: AVESSALOM
      What kind of positional deadlock can there be in the 21st century? Nonsense. This is an excuse for a brainless General Staff who is unable to calculate the allocation of forces and means for conducting the air defense. Have you ever seen a fight without aviation? Without suppressing air defense? Without isolating the TBD?

      Personally, I agree with you. Taking cities and towns head-on for months, losing a lot of equipment and a lot of people. The bridgehead on the left bank has not been destroyed for half a year. And you stated the reasons correctly. It seems that there is aviation, but there is none (glide bombs launched 40 km from the front line, even 20-30 of them, will not make any difference, and taking into account their accuracy - it is loud, dusty, but the effectiveness is in question, the APU is worth it). First, knock out the air defenses, then use massive bombings to destroy the artillery and supplies, then the encirclement will begin and breakthroughs will occur. Now time is not on Russia’s side. They will give money to the Ukrainians, torture them and give them, frozen, Russian 300 billion. This is for the West and will be a solution to the problem of financing the country.
      1. +7
        17 December 2023 04: 22
        I remember the news from the first 2-3 days that Ukrainian air defense was destroyed by 90-95%
  24. -11
    16 December 2023 16: 17
    It’s a nightmare, in the comments, there are only anti-Putinists, liberals, and everyone is being driven out as best they can.. laughing
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  27. +1
    16 December 2023 18: 53
    The main mistake about Iran is that supposedly after the revolution Iran sought to export its Islamic revolutionary idea outside Iran. “The situation worsened after Islamic radicals came to power in Iran, who proclaimed a policy of “exporting the Islamic revolution” to the countries of the Middle East.”
    Khomeini did not have such ideas, and he had attacks and statements about neighboring countries, especially Saddam and the kings of the Arab countries, but he did not have the time and energy to export his ideas. At that time, Khomeini had enough problems of his own, this was opposition from the United States and Israel, and the most important of them was staying in power.
  28. The comment was deleted.
  29. +4
    16 December 2023 18: 59
    Good analysis, author, thank you. Can you expand on the findings or deepen them? attribute the current situation at the front to some episode of the Iran-Iraq war? It would be great.
  30. -1
    16 December 2023 19: 52
    And what does the Gulf War have to do with it?
    All wars are push-pull, attack-defense and vice versa. What matters here is the economy and the stubbornness of the nation as a whole. The Arabs are warriors, they can blow a horn into the air with a belligerent look, the same horn is aimed at the enemy - as if in a real urge, that is, rarely. Writing articles for the sake of writing.
  31. +6
    16 December 2023 20: 04
    Explanatory article. Correct parallels and reasonable conclusions. In principle, the author did not discover anything new, but he found the courage to say what the country’s authorities are silent about and understandable to the majority of the population. And the Iran-Iraq conflict is more of a camouflage so as not to be accused of discrediting and defeatism.
  32. -4
    16 December 2023 20: 54
    For RUSSIA such a concept is not acceptable. They will negotiate with them, but they will not fulfill the agreements. Practice has shown this. The Ukrainian army was defeated!!!! enough in a short time. But the “Georgian” version didn’t work. Negotiations are a scam! And as a result, retreat. Now we simply have to fill the “pots” so that Europe will pay an indemnity for the blood of our guys.
    1. +5
      17 December 2023 04: 25
      So, who have we been fighting with for almost two years, if the Ukrainian Armed Forces were defeated long ago and quickly?
  33. +1
    16 December 2023 21: 05
    No, there will be no repetition of the Iran-Iraq war. There is one major difference.

    During the Iran-Iraq war, Iran's triple advantage in population was offset by a triple (and in the end, more) advantage in the number of equipment. Moreover, modern weapons flowed into Iraq from the USSR and France, while Iran was content with supplies of low-quality junk from China and the DPRK. Even repairing Western equipment left over from the times of the Shah was a huge problem. A balance has emerged: Iran is powerful in manpower, Iraq is powerful in iron. That's why they fought for so long.

    But in the case of Ukraine and the Russian Federation there is nothing like that. The Russian Federation is many times superior to Ukraine и number of population, и number of equipment. Western supplies are flowing in a trickle, while the Russian military industry is experiencing its finest hour. If the trend continues (and so far it is not clear why it should change), then Ukraine simply will not live to see the American elections. And she shouldn’t rely on the victory of the Democrats; it was the Democrats who merged Ukraine deliberately and cynically.
    1. +9
      17 December 2023 00: 58
      Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
      then Ukraine simply will not live to see the American elections.

      Kyiv in three days.

      I didn't expect it from you.
      1. +2
        17 December 2023 01: 09
        Sorry, but that's not me. These are people like General Hodges and General Petraeus, the entire Austrian General Staff (due to their neutral status, they are not obliged to curtsey to Grandpa Joe and other Macrons), now “20 leading military experts in Europe” have written about “sad bells” (the devil knows , who they are, but the sheer number is impressive). If of the two pillars of support for Ukraine, one went on vacation until January, and Hungary does not allow the second, then you need to be a great optimist to see something good in this for Ukraine.
        1. +4
          17 December 2023 01: 21
          And why were the officials’ articles “urgently send five steamships of money” so frightened that they began to be called “analytics”?

          You may not be aware, but the EU does not provide military support to Ukraine AT ALL. All military assistance comes only from national governments. Hungary's position for military assistance is of no importance.

          As for the United States, as a reminder, Ukraine has received weapons worth approximately 1/5 of the money allocated by Congress (and there are many questions about the assessment of these weapons). These are the questions Republicans are asking: what exactly are we paying for?

          No, of course history is rotten, and the collapse of Ukraine at any moment cannot be ruled out. However, you apparently forgot in which cities six months ago you could see caring people on tanks.
          1. 0
            17 December 2023 01: 50
            However, you apparently forgot in which cities six months ago you could see caring people on tanks.


            Using the vicious method of historical analogies, the topic of the article is fortunate: in the first months of the Iraqi invasion, Saddam’s troops captured not only the territories of Arab settlement that they claimed, but also beyond that. After which they were beaten, thrown out, and even shamefully asked for peace on the terms of a return to pre-war positions (which Putin never did, let’s be fair, never). And solely due to extreme tenacity (which is similar to the current Russian Federation) and superiority in hardware (which is also similar to it) they practically won (Iranian generals, overcoming fear, told the Grand Ayatollah how everything was in reality, and he made a speech about the cup with poison). Iraq did not finish off Iran solely because the USSR, USA and France did not want such happiness for themselves. So, where caring people once visited, they may find themselves again in a few years.

            Quote: Negro
            And why were the officials’ articles “urgently send five steamships of money” so frightened that they began to be called “analytics”?

            Sorry, but we have some other analytics (by the way, why did you write Petraeus, Hodges and the entire Austrian General Staff as officials?). Perhaps the changeable opinions of General Milley (everything I want to write about him will be erased by the puritanical forum engine anyway). Who first prophesied 96 hours of life for the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and then sent them to the last sea without aviation or missiles?

            Quote: Negro
            You may not be aware, but the EU does not provide military support to Ukraine AT ALL.

            Yes. There is also a small nuance (one of those that Vasily Ivanovich Petka told about) that, unlike Iran, Ukraine, God willing, provides for a third of its peaceful needs. So, without European money, it will quickly become all the same what is going on there at the front.

            Quote: Negro
            As for the United States, as a keepsake, Ukraine received weapons worth approximately 1/5 of the money allocated by Congress

            That’s why I’ve been saying since last year (being mocked by both sides) that good Grandpa Joe deliberately went from a winning position to a losing position. And what can’t be won when the Nixon-era M113 costs the price of two Bradleys. And that it’s difficult to explain even with extreme stupidity and corruption, and that the democrats are deliberately leaking Ukraine. But if they at least do this slowly and secretly, then the Grand Old Party has now simply proven itself to be Hungarians.
            1. +5
              17 December 2023 02: 34
              Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
              thrown out and even shamefully asked for peace on the terms of a return to pre-war positions (which Putin never did, let’s be fair, never)

              Yes, Sadam, he almost immediately realized what he had gotten himself into and tried to escape from the trap. On the other hand, Putin does not report to anyone what and from whom he asked.
              Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
              Iraq did not finish off Iran solely because

              Stolen victories / knife in the dog. People have no imagination.
              Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
              So where caring people once visited, they may find themselves again in a few years

              I'm talking about June 2023, if you didn't understand. Somehow he quickly forgot, I see.
              Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
              Sorry, but we have some other analytics

              Since "analysis" usually refers to military propaganda of one of the parties, there is no need to read this at all. Give me some cards in my hands - the cards tell the truth.

              The cards say that nothing has happened in the last year.
              Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
              So without European money it will quickly become all the same what’s going on there at the front

              And what do you think they will do?
              Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
              kind Grandpa Joe deliberately ended up in a losing position from a winning position

              Perhaps you and Joe have a different understanding of winning? If you don’t know, “the main enemies of Ukraine,” Musk and the Republicans, say that after leaving Afghanistan, the Democrats immediately started a new garbage dump, where exactly the same amount of money from the American budget goes that went to Afghanistan. It’s as if this is happening on purpose in a country that, even before the SVO, was famous for total theft.
              Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
              The Grand Old Party has now simply revealed itself to be Hungarian.

              You don’t really understand how the ruling party differs from the opposition.
  34. +4
    16 December 2023 21: 48
    Interesting article and comparison too. They have written here before about the similarities between the Northern Military District and previous conflicts. Naturally, there is no complete analogy, but there is more separate features of the REV, WWI, Civil War and even the Soviet-Finnish war. As for starving the enemy to death, as some commentators write, this is very likely, but this is a path with a difficult to predict result...
    1. +3
      16 December 2023 23: 18
      It seems to me that the best example for comparison is the Balkan campaign and the Russian-Turkish war of 1877-78. By the way, both the political and economic maps under the late Alexander II are very similar.
  35. +4
    16 December 2023 23: 17
    It seems to me that all this howl about the defeat of Ukraine, raised by the way both in the West and then by the Ukrainian activists themselves, is aimed only at replacing Zelensky’s team with someone more sane and spending Western budgets more rationally. From the point of view of the West as an investor, it is logical to change the “management team”. This definitely won't make us any better.
  36. +3
    17 December 2023 02: 11
    Hmm.

    Relatively realistic articles should be appreciated. True, even here the author’s irrepressible optimism is confusing.

    The scenario of the Iran-Iraq war is now basic and suits all participants in the Northern Military District, direct and indirect. There is absolutely no reason to expect that an administration will come to power in the United States that wants to end the SVO. The so-called "Trumpists" are against the SVO only because the Democrats are for it. If Trump wins, they will exchange shoes with the Democrats overnight without any problems: the Republicans will trample for the “arsenal of democracy,” and the Democrats will demand that all the money be given to pensioners and blacks as reparations for slavery. The United States does not incur any special costs from the North Military District. All these unimaginable amounts that Congress allocates are 80-90% stolen right without leaving the building of the American Treasury.
  37. -1
    17 December 2023 05: 40
    As long as the Russian Federation has at least 100.000 contract soldiers, then NATO can be a nightmare in Ukraine for a hundred years. The main thing for us is not to win, but not to lose. While the Northern Military District is underway, it will be unrealistic to build a military base against us. Storming Kharkov or Kyiv is stupid: Russian soldiers must be protected... even contract soldiers. It’s enough to surround large cities for a couple of years... Well, turn off the electricity and gas for a couple of years and let them play heroes of the Brest Fortress until they’re blue in the face
  38. +1
    17 December 2023 08: 03
    what
    The situation worsened after Islamic radicals came to power in Iran

    what was so radical about Persians getting rid of US puppet? why the fuck do Russian repeat US
    so, is it ok if we in Persian publications repeat US propaganda about you being so animalistic that giving your soldiers Viagra to rape women in your war of expansion against angelic Ukraine? that's what US says about you and depict Russian as violent criminal and depict Russian church are run by mafia.
    how do you feel if you see a county that is supposed to be your ally repeat what your enemy says about you?
    but fortunately for you we are not stupid as whoever wrote this article and we know it was NATO that force Russia to war and no Russian would practice barbarism of raping defeated enemy
    When you say radical Islamist its mean terrorism and suicide bombing that 100% are sunni like ISIS, Al-Qaide Al-nosra and Boko Haram and all are Sunni. Islamic radicalism is a Sunny problem.
    Iranian are Shia which is Islam plus Persian culture mines extremism, Shia extremist is an oxymoron.
    its because of Persian tolerance and its influence on Shia Islam that Christians and jews are only in Shia countries in Iran Syria and Lebanon its for these reason that prof, Alexander Doujin says Christian orthodox and Shia Muslims are natural allies against Sunny extremism and liberal\catholic extremism of the west.
    1. +2
      17 December 2023 12: 55
      Islamic radicalism is a Sunny problem. .

      By the way, yes.
      I never thought about this. Persians are Shiites.
      1. +1
        17 December 2023 15: 11
        Quote: depressant
        Islamic radicalism is a Sunny problem. .

        By the way, yes.
        I've never thought about it. The Persians are Shiites.

        yes and make you wonder if westerners are really bothered by Islamic extremism why they are peak a fight with Shia and allied by the worst kind of Sunny which is Sunny Wahabi and Salafi (Saudi's state religion) they are so extreme that do not consider Shia to be Muslim and every now and then go and blowup themselves in Shia mosque. US was so stupid that ordered an investigation why Shia do not retaliate by blowing hp Sunny mosque and why they don't practice suicide bombing (i put the link of US finding in the end) but despite their realization, that Shiites are fighting terrorism, because of Israel they remained Iran's enemy, which practically put west in terrorists' team especially in Syria. proven by Wikileaks that exposed email between Jake Sullivan and Hilary Clinton that were talking about in Syria al-Qaida and ISIS are on our (USA) side against Iran Russia and Asad allied.
        so, when I see Russians repeat US propaganda is frustrating but it's also sad for different reason, because Russia is doomed if its people are programed by western propaganda. Sooner or later someone will come to power that think Russia should do what it takes to be friend of superior west, it's amazing how all of them (pro west) have inferiority complex.

        https://ctc.westpoint.edu/the-absence-of-shia-suicide-attacks-in-iraq/
  39. +2
    17 December 2023 09: 20
    The situation worsened after Islamic radicals came to power in Iran,
    The war was started by Iraq led by Hussein, but of course the Iranian radicals are to blame........))
    1. +2
      17 December 2023 15: 50
      he either a pro west Russian or so pro Russia that think if USSR was on Iraq side it must because be Persians are radical evil.
      he isn't smart enough to comprehend that Iran was a no east no west kind of player (independent) and control of the Persian Gulf was USSR dream, and it was willing to give anything if Saddam could deliver that. it was pragmatic policy and since we Persian had 4 empires ourselves, we understand and do not hold that against Russia. let bygone be bygone.
      by the way he conveniently didn't mention that Sadam extensively used chemical weapon, but radical Persians didn't retaliate in kind. it seems they were radical after all but in sticking to morality.
  40. +1
    17 December 2023 12: 56
    Any armed conflict has, first of all, political goals. In my opinion, the SVO, as a special operation, is a form of already armed confrontation between the regime of private property domination of the Russian financial oligarchy and the global oligarchy of the West for the right, from a peripheral and colonially dependent oligarchy, to develop into a REGIONAL financial oligarchy. That is, to become an independent entity that prints money and sells it to commercial banks that determine, set, and control prices, and a regional economy independent of the dollar zone. That is, that “squirrel cage”, created from the wheel of a “USSR” tractor and placed on dollar collections by financial corporations of the West, for them to pump out huge capitals and large fortunes for our “elite”, which we all spin in order to simply survive, began its fall from these supports... And now, so that this “squirrel cage” does not fall and crush us all with its debris, it must be given centripetal movement along the road of History. That is, it should not stand still, but be in motion all the time. Otherwise it will fall. (The tractor is no longer there. And never will be (...)
    Only an innovative scientific and industrial economy can give it such movement. This means that in the long term, a new political economic entity will emerge in Russia, a large industrial business, and, along with it, the corporate banks created by it and the accompanying support and service infrastructure. The logic of the tasks of the movement and development of the country will require the economic and political destruction of the dominance of the financial oligarchy and the formation of state-monopoly capitalism in the interests of these large industrial owners, as in the West a century ago. For me personally, this is a lesser evil compared to the domination of moneylenders. But large science-intensive and high-tech production, owned by the new “industrial” barons, along with a lot of positive factors, has one, but significantly negative one. This is the capacity of the domestic market. Since, when in-line, conveyor production relatively quickly fills our market with its goods, then there will be an urgent need, to one degree or another, to export goods abroad and capture foreign markets. And for this we will need the same large commercial companies that, like the tail of a dog, will manage the goals of the economy and politics. And from the creation of such companies to the formation of the next financial oligarchy, there are only a few steps. Therefore, the most socially oriented way out of such a “scenario,” in my opinion, will only be in the creation of small and medium-sized production, engineering, and infrastructure corporate organizations of collective and joint private ownership, the activities of which will be organized through state programs of cybernetic indicative planning by intersectoral balances industrialized economy. In the interests of the producing petty-bourgeois middle class of Russian townspeople and rural owners.

    PS Whose property is the power.
  41. 0
    17 December 2023 15: 31
    And Russia, in turn, demonstrated its inability to win a convincing victory on the battlefield and fell into the trap of a positional stalemate.


    Overall, the article is interesting, but conclusions and analogies are still premature.

    Russia, unlike Iraq, entered the war forcedly, we were not preparing to attack, our actions disrupted the plan of the Ukrainian Armed Forces’ attack on Donbass and did not allow the LDPR forces to be defeated. In fact, the Ukrainian Armed Forces left us no choice; the loss of Donbass would already be a tragedy and disgrace for Russia, and besides this, it would greatly complicate the position of our forces in Crimea.

    Yes, it was not possible to scare and quickly defeat the Ukrainian Armed Forces, but the fault for this is not only in miscalculations in tactics, but more in the insufficient number of forces involved. Against the backdrop of our losses and a heap of abandoned equipment, knowing the size of our group, the Armed Forces of Ukraine believed in themselves and showed steadfastness in defense, especially after the West’s statements in support of Ukraine. Russia attacked the Armed Forces of Ukraine with a force of 120 thousand soldiers, when the Armed Forces of Ukraine had an army of 350 thousand and from the first days began to mobilize and recruit volunteers.

    Numerical superiority, material and military assistance from the West allowed the Ukrainian Armed Forces to build up forces and go on the attack, but our forces survived, although we had to leave Kherson and Kharkov.

    Russia is not attacking yet, what is happening at the front are small counterattacks in order to improve the position of our troops in different directions - the occupation of Avdeevka, Makeevka and other small advances.

    An offensive is when huge forces are used to break through the front, envelop and defeat large enemy groups. Russia has not yet launched major offensive operations.

    Now the Armed Forces of Ukraine spent resources on our defense, we also suffered losses, but much less and accumulated forces, and now we have about 600 thousand soldiers at the front and besides this, hundreds of thousands of volunteers are being trained in the rear and will also be sent to the Northern Military District, industry gives everything to the front from cartridges to airplanes. And Ukraine already has problems in the army and with payments for pensioners and state employees.

    Russia now has experience in defense and a very successful one, now all that remains is to learn how to fight on the offensive, people have already been recruited, equipment is coming, all that remains is to learn how to work harmoniously and interact with each other, and for this we need effective communication.

    We will succeed in everything and we don’t need to concentrate on whether the West will help the Armed Forces of Ukraine or not, we must crush them in any case and not because they ran out of cartridges and shells, but because we fight more effectively and are better equipped and we have an advantage in technology, artillery and aviation. Now everything is not smooth and ideal everywhere, but we must strive for this by raising our level in everything, from discipline to space reconnaissance.

    This is how we will win
  42. -1
    17 December 2023 17: 00
    Ukraine is already overextended. It will never be the same as it was in the summer of 23. Ukraine will inevitably weaken. And this war will most likely resemble the war in the Pacific - Japan is paralyzed, everyone understands, but they continue hopeless resistance simply out of inertia
  43. +1
    18 December 2023 15: 13
    How are these conflicts similar?
    - the attacker had a bet on internal support on the opposite side, this bet did not work
    - the attacker had a desire to carry out a quick operation with limited goals due to underestimation of the enemy’s forces, but this did not work out.

    What is the difference - Iran set and declared the task of changing power from the other side, that is, it set decisive goals, today neither side declares such a task, both sides talk about limited political and limited territorial goals.
    In addition, there is unconditional support for one of the parties from the West, including free of charge.

    Until the conflict is over, it is difficult to say how similar the two conflicts are. The Iran-Iraq War had no continuation, since the status quo was restored and both sides realized that they could not achieve their goals, they simply abandoned them. Both sides found it possible to solve their internal problems in other ways, although Iraq later changed its mind and lost its sovereignty.
  44. 0
    19 December 2023 21: 08
    ...The comparison, of course, is too approximate!..
    It is absolutely impossible to compare the NWO (Or the conflict in the Ukrainian territories...) with the war between Iraq and Iran (As, indeed, with WWI!)!..
    If only because in the case of WWI and the Iran-Iraq War... - the warring parties fight AT FULL FORCE...
    ...Using all its militaristic potential, in fact, to the fullest!..

    ...In the case of the Northern Military District, we are observing a conscious Forecast of the RF Armed Forces in relation to the Ukrainian Wehrmacht and its NATO allies and masters...
    In the literal sense - the Russian Army is fighting “with its hands tied”, as before, moreover, as carefully as possible, trying (And very effectively in this regard...) to reduce the losses of the civilian population (including those who are absolutely disloyal to the Russian Federation!) - to the absolute minimum... The shameful Ukrovermacht in this regard - doesn’t bother at all!..

    ...The Russian Federation (Besides!) still did not carry out General Mobilization...
    (In contrast to the Ukrainian Reich, in which even those unfit for military service, including old men, are drafted into the army...
    Of course, even there, mobilization is selective (some people are not touched), but in comparison with the Russian Federation, mobilization in Ukrainian territories can well be considered - General!..)
    In all countries that participated in WWII (almost all) a General Mobilization was announced...
    In the case of Iran and Iraq, the degree and order of mobilization (conscription) into the Armed Forces were approximately the same for both sides...

    ...Next: The goals pursued by the warring parties...

    Both in WWI and in the Iran-Iraq War, the warring parties explicitly and implicitly indicated specific goals...
    Seizure of territories, regime change, etc.
    Of course, during the protracted database, these goals were adjusted in one way or another, but on the whole, they retained their specificity...
    So far, only the Ukrainian Reich has been able to express a specific goal in this regard.
    For them, this is not a conflict, but a war for the liberation of “illegally seized territories”...
    From their side and in their opinion (and the opinion of their masters), everything is extremely clear: the Russian Federation is an aggressor, the war against the Russian Federation is a liberation war...

    ...On the part of the Russian Federation, the specificity and persuasiveness of the goals (in comparison with the Ukrainian Reich) are fully sufficient only in relation to the Donbass "... and other occupied territories in a number of new regions of the Russian Federation..." (it was once voiced by Peskov)
    As for the rest, there are no clear specifics.

    ...Denazification? But as it turned out, we are talking, rather, about “debanderization” and the protection of the rights of Russian speakers and their native (Russian) language...

    But only part of the Ukrainian territories suffer from “Banderism”, and Russian-speaking people for the rights and freedoms of whom our Valiant Warriors fight, die, and are wounded... constitute (for various reasons) the main and MOST combat-ready part of the Ukrainian Wehrmacht!..
    And without hesitation, they fire at their liberators from all types of weapons...
    And they don’t surrender to captivity - en masse...
    And in captivity, they are in no hurry to en masse join the ranks of the Liberation Army, fighting against the Kyiv regime and the ruling clown clique...
    Many of the prisoners are quite “in good faith” expecting an exchange in order to fight again against their “liberators”...
    It’s good that the idiocy and obstinacy of the Kyiv clique does not allow the Russian and Ukrainian languages ​​to be equal in rights... Otherwise, the position of the regime could be further strengthened and quite significantly... (Including in the eyes of the Western public...)

    ...Demilitarization...
    Here, of course, it’s more specific... But again, to what extent?..

    ...Complete disarmament... Only police and border formations are allowed... Defense of territories and security guarantees are provided by the Occupation Forces?..
    ...Partial disarmament? Creation of self-defense forces?.. To what extent and in what form?..
    (Inadmissibility of the presence of heavy weapons, serious air defense, aviation and missile forces... Or partially allow the deployment of heavy air defense systems? Etc.)
    ...Military industry - raze military factories (and military research institutes) to the ground, transfer them to the ownership of the Russian Federation, or leave something for the vanquished?)
    ...The opportunity to enter (create) Military Blocks and Unions?..
    ...No way!..
    Or - it’s possible, but only in the CSTO (And under strict supervision!)))))))))))
    In general, even in this declared concept - “Demilitarization” - a clear specificity of the requirements must be demonstrated and declared...

    And one more point (Difference of a “Strategic” nature!) should be pointed out...

    The degree of isolation and the degree of Sanctions Impact of the parties in the Iran-Iraq conflict and the North...

    There is no comparison here either...
    If warring Iran and Iraq were, in general, on equal terms in this regard...
    It’s actually the entire Collective West, led by the USA, that has actually taken up arms against the Russian Federation...
    But for the Ukrainian Reich, in this part of the conflict... - everything is absolutely and completely - ON THE OVERSEAS...
    And this, you see, is a very important and greatly aggravating circumstance in the foreign policy (And not only!) situation of the Russian Federation...