Russian troops left Snake Island

Today is a holiday in Kyiv, Zelensky is celebrating the "great victory" in connection with the "liberation" of the Snake Island in the Black Sea. True, there is no merit of the Ukrainian military in this, the Russian garrison left the island voluntarily.

The information that Russian troops left Zmeiny was published by a number of Russian TG channels, and then confirmed by the Ministry of Defense. According to the military, the island was left as a gesture of goodwill for the organization of humanitarian corridors and the export of grain from Odessa. Now Kyiv must clear the coast, as Zelensky promised, as Russia has removed the last obstacle preventing it.

The Russian Federation does not interfere with the efforts of the UN to organize a humanitarian corridor for the export of agricultural products from the territory of Ukraine (...) Now the word is up to the Ukrainian side, which still does not clear the Black Sea coast from its coast, including port waters

- it is spoken in the message of the Ministry of Defense.

According to the report, the garrison left the island on 30 June. Some Internet resources already in the morning reported on an attempt by the Armed Forces of Ukraine to attack Serpentine. It was reported that Russia allegedly lost one Pantsir-S MANPADS.

Just a couple of days ago, information was received from Ukrainian sources that Zelensky gave two weeks to the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to capture Zmeinoye with a landing. In Kyiv, they plan to pass it off as a "big victory" against the backdrop of a complete failure in the Donbass. The island allows you to control not only Odessa, but also the mouth of the Danube.

Comments

[stirrer]

But what about the statements that there one Shell shot down both planes and MLRS missiles?

[Machito]

We are waiting for the landing of Ukrovermacht on Serpentine to be sent to a meeting with Bandera.

[Sergio_7]

Of course it will! Under the current conditions (deliveries of new weapons to Kuev, it makes no sense to keep Father Serpentine, only to lose people. And ukrov will be beaten there regularly!

[Evgeny Ivanov_5]

This is not our method. How about a goodwill gesture? Now you can’t really touch it, otherwise they will say that it’s impossible to trawl the fairway and navigate ships under fire. Now there will be, on our side, a gray zone where you cannot shoot.

[Tatyana]

To be honest, I am shocked by this news.

REFERENCE
"Snake" is a small island in the Black Sea, located on the border of Romania and Ukraine.
The legal island belongs to the Izmail district of the Odessa region. But it was not always so. For many years, "Snake" passed from hand to hand. It belonged to the Republic of Ingushetia, then the Turks, then the Romanians. The issue was finally resolved after the Second World War, and finally “Snake” became part of the USSR.
The island, with its coastal zone, is rich in minerals, oil and gas, but Kyiv was unable to develop them.

MILITARY
"Snake" is the key to the Crimea, as well as to Odessa and Romania.
In the post-Soviet period, according to Russian intelligence, earlier NATO equipment was based on Zmein, which made it possible to correct the operation of American Tomahawk-type cruise missiles.

For the Russian army, control over this island "Snake" completely blocks all Ukrainian military and merchant ships, and it is also a kind of springboard for the NVO for a possible further offensive of Russian troops on Odessa.

On the island, you can place a Russian air defense system, now approaching Russia to NATO borders on its own. After all, from the “Snake” NATO member Romania is within easy reach. Yes, and NATO ships conducting exercises in the Black Sea will no longer feel comfortable.

There is also another factor - this is the containment of the Romanian authorities, who have long laid their eyes on this small island of strategic and economic significance and will certainly take advantage of the current situation in the future to its ANNEXATION from Ukraine.

[mva]

Quote: Tatiana

To be honest, I am shocked by this news.
[/B]

What can you do, with the advent of harpoons from the Ukrainians, it became impossible to supply the island. But if the Ukrainians gain a foothold there, Sevastopol will already be in the affected area with the same harpoons.

[bulgaria_]

What if the Harpoon kids are moved to the island? How far to the Crimean bridge? Can it be reached with a howitzer or MLRS now? What about Dot U? It's a pity "Moscow" and other ships are here. And in your media (more precisely Channel One) nothing, nothing.
To be honest, I don’t understand what kind of special operation is when the first target is not Zelensky, and his entourage. I can name another - a hasty military operation. The special is prepared for a long time and does not last long.

[mva]

It is possible to move, but they also need to be protected there. Our air defense could not protect the Serpentine and there were many arrivals on it.
There are 260 km to Sevastopol, with a harpoon range of 300 km.
Tochka, howitzers and MLRS (with those missiles that Ukry received) will not reach the Crimean bridge and Sevastopol.
The Crimean bridge cannot be destroyed with harpoons. the main supports are there, and they will not suffer too much from such a weak explosion.
And on the bridge it was possible to smack from land (for example, from Zaporozhye), Serpentine has nothing to do with it, Serpentine is about Sevastopol.

[bulgaria_]

As I understand it, Russia does not own the Black Sea because of AWACS and drones. Can AWACS be seen there in flyradar? And what prevents a NATO helicopter from landing? Strike?

[mva]

The air over the Black Sea is not completely controlled. Yes, a helicopter at low altitude and modern (low-altitude) cruise missiles can fly there.
It is unlikely that AWACS can be seen in flyradar, it most likely goes there with transponders turned off.

[bulgaria_]

No, it is positive for NATO 1. Seek and you will find. I sent a link to Podolyak's publication in rutube. Right after the attack on the platform.

Here it is - 30.06.2022/18/24 XNUMX:XNUMX Sofia

https://www.flightradar24.com/NATO01/2c73f205

And there is also NATO02

[Shurik70]

Quote: Tatiana

"Snake" is the key to the Crimea, as well as to Odessa and Romania.

But not when the enemy has a MLRS capable of getting there.
Otherwise, the island becomes a large mass grave.
Thanks to the United States, Ukraine has such a system.
And there have already been test launches in the Donbass.
And if the helicopters and air defense drones of the island are shot down at once, it is unrealistic to completely shoot down a volley of MLRS.
Don't expect a hit.
They left him right.

[Tatyana]

Quote: Shurik70

Don't expect a hit.
They left him right.

Yes, it is clear that the withdrawal of allied troops from the island "Snake" is a measure on the part of Russia FORCED!

However, it’s also impossible to name a STRATEGIC VICTORY of Russia over the Armed Forces of Ukraine in this place on the occasion of the withdrawal of Russian troops from Snake Island!
Why is this happening to us? That's what we're talking about!

[meandr51]

In war, one must be able to think flexibly and respond to the situation. Integrity only hurts. The main thing is victory. Read how Kutuzov fought with different opponents. He fooled his head so that no one understood what he was doing. But he always won.

[Gardamir]

They left him right.

Then Kherson will be left, Donbass...

[meandr51]

It will be necessary - and Moscow will be burned again. The main thing is victory.

[alexmach]

Thanks to the United States, Ukraine has such a system.

And before that, Ukraine didn’t have such systems or something.

[bulgaria_]

Here, but no one thought that there would be a pumping of weapons from the west? I'm sure I thought. Is there something here I hope it will be positive in the end.

[Luenkov]

And they themselves will hit ... NATO ...

[Garris199]

The island is small, there is one Iskander with a cassette warhead and all the equipment can be covered.

[PSih2097]

Quote: Garris199

The island is small, there is one Iskander with a cassette warhead and all the equipment can be covered.

And let's compare the full salvo of the MLRS of the same "Tornado S" and "Iskander" in terms of cost, moreover, in the version of both BR and KR ...
My opinion - it was impossible to hand it over - this is a loss of our policy to NATO IMHO ...

[Garris199]

Well, if the Ukrainians place something worthwhile on the island and capable of threatening us from there, for example, anti-ship missiles, air defense or Himarsy, then this is a completely justified cost goal for Iskander. And if Sashko and Mykola conditionally sit there to guard the flag, then it’s a pity to spend on them and Tornado because there is no threat from them, well, maybe except for propaganda.

[TatarinSSSR]

Our Iskanders hit the old Ukrainian Buk. And nothing, did not go bankrupt.

[meandr51]

So compare the cost of our boats and air defense systems, as well as people with the cost of Ukrainian shells, for which they pay nothing.

[Negruz]

No one will waste missiles on this piece, fab-500 with su-24 - and that's it ...

[Boa kaa]

Quote from bulgaria_

The special is prepared for a long time and does not last long.

Crap! And it's definitely noticed!

[ABC-schutze]

"And what if children Harpoon are moved to the island? How far is the Crimean bridge?"
****************************************************************************
For those who want to "move harpoons" - immeasurably further than to the bottom of the Black Sea area ...

“To be honest, I don’t understand what kind of special operation is when the first target is not Zelensky and his entourage.”
****************************************************************************
The first target is you, i.e. Washington and NATO. And not the defeat of the sixes from the "team" of your Kyiv clowns ...

"I can name another - a hasty military operation. A special one takes a long time to prepare and does not last long."
****************************************************************************
You tell your "teachers-planners", on this subject, for educational program, tell ...

THE MAIN THING is not "how much" is being prepared - it continues, but WHAT it ends with. For the party in respect of which the SVO is being carried out ...

[Emergency]

And what? Bulgarians are famous "strategies". The latter refused to pay for gas in rubles and showed strategic foresight.

[bulgaria_]

Are all your Russians good? This guy studied in Canada and worked there and in the USA.

[bulgaria_]

Please don’t forget how all this foolishness didn’t happen if Lenin didn’t do all this with Ukraine and Finland, and even Khrushchev. And about Gorbachev and Yeltsin ....... One traitor and one clown.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote from bulgaria_

Please don’t forget how all this foolishness didn’t happen if Lenin didn’t do all this with Ukraine and Finland, and even Khrushchev.

Please don't write clichéd nonsense. Lenin was a genius and in the case of Ukraine he did everything right. It is not his fault that the descendants were so stupid and mediocre. By the way, this applies to you as well as to me.

[bulgaria_]

Well, you can be right. I heard this from your professors and political scientists in the Time to Remember program. So all this nonsense is not mine.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote from bulgaria_

Well, you can be right. I heard this from your professors and political scientists in the Time to Remember program. So all this nonsense is not mine.

That's why I wrote that cliched. And what else to say to our professors and political scientists if Lenin poses a threat to them? Of course they will lie.

[bulgaria_]

As I understand the word "cliché" is something that is used more often and without much meaning. And what I said I do not think is said more often. Otherwise .... then I'm not the first. You know what some sages from China say - the one who conquers others is great, and the one who conquers himself is powerful. My advice to you is to think how to become powerful.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote from bulgaria_

My advice to you is to think how to become powerful.

What category of Bulgarians do you belong to? To the great or mighty?

[bulgaria_]

I can only about myself, so right, I'm trying to become mighty.
For me, the discussion is over.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote from bulgaria_

I can only about myself, so right, I'm trying to become mighty.

Well, I wish you good luck with that.

[Emergency]

Whatever we were, but all the centuries-old attempts to make us lackeys failed. What can not be said about many "civilized" Europeans.

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Ukrainians will not gain a foothold there either. Russia has more weapons. Any ukrov garrison will disappear in minutes

[ramzay21]

Russia has had more means of destruction for a long time, but there are no means of detection and target designation, and we saw how it all worked on Snake Island.
Our means of destruction can reach any object on the territory of Ukraine, but our means of detection are not able to detect them with MLRS, Tochka-U, Neptunes and Harpoons, otherwise they would be destroyed when advanced to their positions either by Caliber or VKS.

[meandr51]

This does not apply to the Snake. You can hit the coordinates with anything.

[ABC-schutze]

List the components of the "heap of everything", if it doesn't make it difficult. About the flags, after we discuss ...

[zenion]

Reminds me of an old Jewish joke. Russian language lesson in a Jewish school. The teacher is children, if you do not know how to write statosrat, or sratostat, write dirigopol. ------ Thus, if the grapes could not be eaten, then it is not yet ripe. Very ancient. The fox saw that a ram was grazing at the top of the hill and he had big mudya, said I’ll tear off and eat. She climbed up the mountain. The ram saw her, and when she approached, he hit her with his horns. She rolled down the mountain. I lay down, caught my breath and said they didn’t come off, and it’s not necessary, I didn’t really want to. Read this, how a blacksmith made a zilch from a large piece of metal.

[Emergency]

It's sad, of course. But in this case, why are they? Or will the descendants of the proto-ukrovs pull the island where they want? On this island, any position is like a flea on a bald head.

[Andrey Stavropolsky]

AND? Well, harpoons, so what? Put harpoons in an open field and wait for them to be demolished. So it is there. In order to put something serious there, many people need to have it in the complex, air defense aviation and space, and much more. Otherwise, at least every day the positions will be demolished

[flicker]

But if the Ukrainians gain a foothold there, Sevastopol will already be in the affected area with the same harpoons.

Yeah, there the distance from Odessa, that from this island to Sevastopol is almost the same about 300 km.

In general, the value of this island for the military can only be its proximity to Romania (NATO), to control the airspace.
But this island is extremely difficult to supply and protect.
So the value is not great, and if they still transfer the S-500 to the Crimea, then nothing at all.

[alekc73]

Serpentine is a strategic place. An unsinkable aircraft carrier. Allows you to control the entire northwestern direction of the Black Sea. It was an awl in the underbelly of NATO. Leaving the island is not a mistake. This is a betrayal. We will not see Odessa. Ships and aircraft of the Black Sea Fleet will not be able to work there. I’m sure the Armed Forces of Ukraine will immediately take it. And there will be anti-ship missiles and air defense of the NATO type. There are no words.

[military_cat]

Quote: alekc73

Unsinkable aircraft carrier.

No runway?

[PSih2097]

Quote: military_cat

No runway?

there UKKS in the land version can be installed, well, or Club-K in the "surface-to-surface" version.

[meandr51]

Nothing will be there. Aircraft carriers are Crimea or Chinese artificial islands. And the Serpentine is just useless nonsense with known coordinates. He doesn't give anything to ukram either. Control is exercised in other ways.

[Volkof]

We heard your political cry. Now the military factor. The coastline in the Odessa region is covered by the air defense of NATO countries in terms of detecting our assets. UAVs and US reconnaissance aircraft hang in the Black Sea, they not only detect our ships, but also provide real-time target designation, including on Snake Island, already to their means in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The Russian Armed Forces do not have such means, it does not control the coast of Ukraine in the Odessa region in real time, and even more so there is no target designation ... There are means for destruction, but there is no target designation for them ... and will not be ... In such conditions, keep Serpentine is impossible! Moreover, the ships do not have long-range air defense systems ... And there is nothing at all to detect low-flying targets in the "advanced army" !!! Who changed to what is not a question. There is nothing to hold the snake with, there is no possibility in the conditions of the intervention of pi_ndos and their intelligence equipment ...

[Tatyana]

Quote: Volkof

There is nothing to hold the snake, there is no possibility in the conditions of intervention of pi_ndos and their intelligence equipment ...

And what did our people think about this before ?! Why did this decision come to our authorities NOW?

Here is the main question for the Russian authorities for all of us!

Who is to blame and what are we going to do with all this after that?

[Volkof]

The General Staff of the Armed Forces does not have a concept of conducting combat operations in a modern war. There is no concept of conventional combat in modern warfare. The General Staff of the Armed Forces and all the generals are engaged only in strategic weapons, well, operational-tactical, they do not stoop to conventional combat operations. That's why everywhere everything is through ... back ... And in the LDNR for 8 years, and in Syria, and in a special operation ... The weapons are modern, but we don’t know how to use them, there is no target designation in real time .... with the help of technical funds ... Where is the ESU TZ "Constellation-M"? Even the boilers cannot be closed in operational terms ... There is no and cannot be an operational environment, these "storytellers" have no funds, they see nothing further than binoculars in real time ... Putin does not rush the military. Why rush them if they can't do anything? Instead of 2 weeks, which month?

[bulgaria_]

Most likely waging war without a bunch of casualties.

[Tatyana]

It has probably been a month since Russia's military experts say that Russia is now in the current conditions need the State Defense Committee as a permanent advisory body that prepared the decisions of the President of the Russian Federation as the head commander in the region:
- military construction,
- implementation of the most important decisions on the security of the Russian Federation on strategic issues of defense policy.
And that he would solve all issues in the country, as under Stalin during the Second World War.

For example.
On June 30, 1941, in the USSR, by the decree of Comrade Stalin, an all-seeing body was formed in wartime - the USSR State Defense Committee, headed by I.V. Stalin. For the duration of the war, this body became the country's highest state authority, concentrating all power in its hands.

Under Yeltsin, from 1996 to 1998 in Russia, by decree of Mr. Yeltsin, the Defense Council headed by B. N. Yeltsin was created and worked.
Defense Council - it was an advisory body that was empowered to develop for the President, issues related to military construction, as well as carry out the implementation of the most important decisions of the Russian Security Council on strategic issues of defense policy.

[Revolver]

Quote: Tatiana

Russia now needs the State Defense Committee in the current conditions

For this, Stalin is needed, and, unfortunately, he cannot be raised from the grave. And there was not even a grave left of Beria ...

[alexey sidykin]

GKO? What, did someone attack us? Don't talk nonsense.

[alexey sidykin]

Less pathos and more common sense. We do not have the Second World War and the fighting is not on our territory ... To introduce GKO. In your opinion, Stalin once did not arrange the State Defense Committee when the Japanese were smashed at Khasan and Khalkhin Gol, when the Soviet-Finnish War was on, when the Western territories were liberated ...

[ramzay21]

It has been probably a month since Russia's military experts say that Russia now needs the State Defense Committee under the current conditions

Do you remember Krylov's fable "Quartet"? You can create at least GKO, even SovNarkom, even Kultprosvet, the result will be the same.
The name decides nothing, people decide. Where is Stalin and where is Putin?

[alexey sidykin]

I didn’t remember something about the GKO during the battles at Khasan and Khalkhin Gol, and during the Soviet-Finnish war, the GKO was also not introduced ... probably then it was not Stalin who led the country ...

[nedgen]

Quote: Tatiana

It has probably been a month since Russia's military experts say that Russia is now in the current conditions need the State Defense Committee as a permanent advisory body that prepared the decisions of the President of the Russian Federation as the head commander in the region:
- military construction,
- implementation of the most important decisions on the security of the Russian Federation on strategic issues of defense policy.
And that he would solve all issues in the country, as under Stalin during the Second World War.
[/B]

In general, you are right, but where do you get people of the scale of Joseph Visarionovich and other members of the State Defense Committee of that time? Unfortunately, of all the politicians of the Russian Federation, perhaps only two partially reach the titans. This is Vladimir Vladimirovich himself and Sergey Kozhugetovich. The rest are all so-so through the pen deck. Unfortunately

[alexmach]

Russia now needs the State Defense Committee in the current conditions

No need. There is nothing to spoil the existing reality of the name of an outstanding state body. Stick to existing advice.

[Normann]

And how do you order to pass through the fortified areas created for more than one year?

[alexmach]

And how did the Red Army get through the Manerheim Line? Moreover, for a second it was an army that did not know how to fight at all in modern conditions at that time.

[Negruz]

And how did the Red Army get through the Manerheim Line?

The Red Army passed the Mannerheim line with six births per woman on average, but after passing this line, the number of births per woman dropped to 3 ....
I'm not talking about modernity...

[DPN]

Until we restore the USSR - the Empire, we will be dismantled for spare parts. Words from the song, "YOU, I Together, a friendly family", until this family is restored, it will be bad for us.

[Revolver]

Quote: DPN

Until we restore the USSR - the Empire, we will be dismantled for spare parts. Words from the song, "YOU, I Together, a friendly family", until this family is restored, it will be bad for us.

Which Rotaru is real? This?

Or this one?
https://fakty.ua/ru/397485-nezavisimost-i-svoboda-stoyat-dorogo-sofiya-rotaru-iz-kieva-vyskazalas-o-vojne-v-ukraine

[runway-1]

Tatyana, you ask naive questions. Then we will wait for what will happen next, and special people will explain the "correctness" of what is happening ...

[ramzay21]

And what did our people think about this before ?! Why did this decision come to our authorities NOW?

Do you still think that there someone might think?

Who is to blame and what are we going to do with all this after that?

The one who cannot be guilty now is to blame, he is now always and in everything right.
The experience of the last twenty years suggests that we will not do anything, they will simply not talk about it, and after a while everyone will forget about it.
In general, all these problems have been covered in their articles by Klimov and Timokhin for many years. Most commentators considered them all-weapons, and they turned out to be right. Everything is right

[meandr51]

As long as no one from the command has been repressed, nothing will change.

[alexmach]

And what did our people think about this before ?! Why did this decision come to our authorities NOW?

Timokhin (for a second, an amateur - a man not a military man at all) wrote about this even after the first abandonment and re-capture of the island. But what the military leadership was thinking about is a good question. But Serpentine, after all, is far from the only reason for questions.

[ramzay21]

Timokhin (for a second, an amateur - a man not a military man at all) wrote about this even after the first abandonment and re-capture of the island.

So I am horrified by this comparison and the level of competence and knowledge of our commanders

[meandr51]

When politicians run headquarters, wars take on a strange character.

[duschman80-81]

I would like to believe that this is indeed the case. But .... Let's see.

[HUNTERDON]

Someone previously wrote here; - ITS - STRANGE Military Operation.

[Volkof]

Throw out the letter "T" ... And you will get an answer, but, alas, it cannot be otherwise! Everything rests on the RUSSIAN SOLDIER, as always ...

[DPN]

Thanks for the help.+++!

[MMX]

Ahah, every day the turbopatriots have a "goodwill gesture" from the country's leadership at our expense.
Exchange of Azov people, Fr. Serpentine, and earlier Gostomel, Kyiv, Chernihiv, Sumy ....
In total, for the entire NWO, and so much "kindness" on our part.
And most importantly, more holidays and festivals large and different within the country for the peace of the population (the president is calm and cheerful). The only pity is that those thousands of our soldiers who died will not hear this fun.

And yes, I almost forgot: CBO is going according to plan.

[meandr51]

Of course, according to plan. Just not for you. And by no means at all. It always happens.

[U_GOREC]

Quote: Sergio_7

Of course it will! Under the current conditions (deliveries of new weapons to Kuev, it makes no sense to keep Father Serpentine, only to lose people. And ukrov will be beaten there regularly!

Did they learn from Arestovich to pass off any failure as a win?

[GDP]

Something in recent months, our unilateral gestures of goodwill, cause such feelings that you can only speak obscenely. If this island is so unimportant, then why did they ruin so much equipment and people? It is not clear whether the ships that will take grain from Odessa will be inspected. I don’t see any other reason to fight for this island like that, except for controlling Odessa from the sea, preventing the threat of landing and supplying weapons. Grain can also be delivered via other routes ... And are we really pursuing the goals in this war that our president announced. Denazification and demilitarization of Ukraine will be at all? If so, how is this possible without taking control of most of Ukraine? Or do we just trust them? If all the same, we plan to achieve these goals. How to solve them with cash? A protracted war is not beneficial for us, from the point of view of the economy, Russia is many times inferior to the NATO countries ...

[mva]

What control over Odessa? Are you talking about a landing operation? It is practically impossible to carry it out, as a rule, an amphibious operation is an auxiliary one, when the main forces of the defenders are busy repelling attacks from land. By land, they could not even get close to Odessa.
And both sides need Snake Island to control the waters of the Black Sea (for us, for air defense, since Moscow is at the bottom and there is no more long-range air defense in the Black Sea Fleet, and Ukraine is for deploying anti-ship missiles). If harpoons appear on the island, then even Sevastopol will be in their zone of destruction.

[Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira]

Marvelous !!! We agreed to the point that the Ukrainians can beat on the island in order to overtake us from there, and we, with all our Iskanders and Zircons-Calibers, will calmly let them whitewash the hut there and set up a little garden?!
If we have deprived ourselves of the opportunity to die on the island, then now let the "overcome invaders" die there .... Those who make difficult decisions can be criticized by those who themselves are in similar situations. To become like grandmothers near the entrance is not the most useful and necessary activity in today's situation.
Fighting guys - victory!

[konstantin68]

Quote: Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira

Marvelous !!! We agreed that the Ukrainians can hit the island

Their job is to talk more.
For a week there on the island, they would have been healed, otherwise they would have bleated.

[U_GOREC]

Quote: konstantin68

For a week there on the island, they would have been healed, otherwise they would have bleated.

That is, by force? So it seems that Ukraine has waves of mobilization, and we have contract soldiers, yes volunteers ...

[GDP]

The snake wrote a comment on the island without thinking properly, just emotions. In the light of the supply of new long-range weapons, this is an unpleasant, but still a necessity ... It is sad that there is a lack of forces on our part and a misunderstanding of why no active actions are being taken to strengthen them, at least on the part of volunteers. (active advertising, explanatory work, financial and organizational side of the issue, free military training courses for those who do not have self-confidence or relevant skills, etc.). The active work of our state from this side is not felt.

[runway-1]

our unilateral goodwill gestures, cause such feelings about which you can only talk obscenely

Yet the explanation of the "gestures" is somewhat different ...

[Sergio_7]

Our military know better what decisions to make according to the situation!

[U_GOREC]

Quote: Sergio_7

Our military know better what decisions to make according to the situation!

AND? Does anyone argue with this? Or imposes his decisions on them? People discuss the consequences of certain decisions. Did Lebed, in Khasavyurt, also know better on the spot?

[Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira]

Not Lebed, but Yeltsin's pack!

[ramzay21]

These chaotic decisions, depending on momentary wishes, are paid for with the lives of our soldiers, civilians, including those who collaborated with us. Who is responsible for these decisions?

[meandr51]

And he has a lot to learn. By the way, a retreat, if it is timely, is not a failure, but a maneuver.

[ramzay21]

There are too many such maneuvers in the NWO and they are chaotic

[U_GOREC]

Quote: meandr51

By the way, a retreat, if it is timely, is not a failure, but a maneuver.

O! And you are also from Arestovich's school!

[Bully]

And ukrov will be hammered there regularly

And if the mattresses (under the guise of Romanians) land and gain a foothold. These then, like cockroaches, you are tormented

[The black]

Now Kyiv will try to promote this "overcome" and hide the defeat near Lysychansk with it. Well, as for the losses that the Armed Forces of Ukraine will suffer, of course, few people will be worried. As I understand it, very soon someone will land on the island and raise the flag of Ukraine. At the same time, no one will leave a powerful garrison to protect it.

[dmi.pris1]

Being under attack on a tiny piece of land is meaningless

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: dmi.pris

Being under attack on a tiny piece of land is meaningless

Then why did they come there?

[dmi.pris1]

But this is a question ... Why did they enter Gostomel, Kharkov at the very beginning of the operation. It seems that there is no intelligence at all. I'm not talking about army, front-line intelligence

[meandr51]

It was a false diversion.

[vdv_555]

Everyone just thought it would be like a parade. They will work out, practice landing, show off in front of the west. Someone reported upstairs is clearly not what it really is.

[alexey sidykin]

Quote: dmi.pris

Being under attack on a tiny piece of land is meaningless

Give free rein to the local commentators, they would have laid down the entire army by now ...

[Solomon]

yes, and erase it .... just drown it in the sea ...

[meandr51]

We can say that it is the Turks or the Ukrainians who are bombing. And you can not pay attention to the island at all. Nothing depends on him.

[tralflot1832]

After a gesture of goodwill from Russia, Europe immediately thanked her by paying the SVO at an increased rate. The price of gas in Europe. There are still places where the Ukrainian is not scared.

[Kesha1980]

We are waiting for the landing of Ukrovermacht on Serpentine

And why is it stolen? We will destroy the ukrov. But what if the Romanians or Turks land? Just let's go then.
After Bucha and Tyra, all "good will gestures" should be considered by the investigators. The commander of the Airborne Forces, as I understand it, it was after Bucha that they changed everything. This means that the jambs against our prisoners while covering the "maneuvers" are recognized.

[kot423]

Quote: Kesha1980

But if the Romanians or Turks land

Well, they will land, so what? If the official Armed Forces is a declaration of war with all the consequences. If the "volunteers" - go to fertilizer, like the rest of the geese, not subject to the convention.

[Kesha1980]

What does "declaration of war" have to do with it? The island is Ukrainian, the troops of ANY state land at the invitation of the Ukrainians (or is there a war going on in these territories?). They can also officially hide behind "ensuring the security of humanitarian corridors".

[meandr51]

They will destroy anyone on the island, as they are now destroying American instructors.

[Kesha1980]

I don’t believe in such decisive actions on the island at all. Only ukrov will wet.

[Negruz]

And why didn’t they land in 4 months?

[Kesha1980]

It was busy there. They are shy)

[Negruz]

And earlier they removed the garrison from there - so what?

[Kesha1980]

Everything has its time. It is not harmful to assume possible negative options. It's good not to assume.

[Negruz]

Anything can be assumed...
The only thing is that it contradicts

Here in such decisive actions on the island in general I do not believe

And then, it turns out: here - we play, here - we don’t play (they wrapped the fish) ...

[Kesha1980]

Really, I don't believe it. And I believe in possible impudence, impudence and provocation.

[Negruz]

In 2013, no one believed in the war between Ukraine and Russia - and nothing, they somehow got used to it ...

[Piramidon]

Quote: kot423

Well, they will land, so what? If the official Armed Forces is a declaration of war with all the consequences.

What declaration of war? To whom? Officially Serpentine is the territory of ukroreykha. The Sumerians can launch anyone there, under the guise of all sorts of "instructors" who are in their viper just as immeasurably and no one has declared war on anyone. And whether to shoot at him or not, that will be our decision.

[kot423]

Quote: Piramidon

What declaration of war? To whom?

I start from the words of Pasechnik: "

The head of the Lugansk People's Republic (LPR), Leonid Pasechnik, answered the question of whether their people's militia would stop at the border of the Lugansk region.

He said that if Kharkov and Odessa turn to the LPR for help, then their proposals will be considered in the republic.
That is, legally Serpentine falls under the Odessa region, LPR is recognized by the Russian Federation = assistance agreement = any contingent in. state-in on Serpentine - either entry into hostilities, or mercenaries.
https://tsargrad.tv/news/kak-daleko-zajdjot-lnr-harkov-i-odessa-pod-voprosom_500994

[ramzay21]

I start from the words of Pasechnik: "

He and Pushilin have already stated that they will not change the Azovites. Anyone answered for their words of them?

[kot423]

Quote: ramzay21

I start from the words of Pasechnik: "

He and Pushilin have already stated that they will not change the Azovites. Anyone answered for their words of them?

Um... Am I missing something? As far as I know, Russia exchanged privates + wounded / seriously wounded Azov 144/144. Treat them at our expense? Fuck, let 404 have goo instead of brains ....

[ramzay21]

As far as I know, Russia exchanged 144/144 ordinary + wounded / seriously wounded Azov soldiers.

When these seriously ill Nazis, who have gained vast experience in urban combat, begin to share this experience with the Armed Forces of Ukraine and lead the Nazi detachments in the rear of the defending troops of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, then our losses will increase and the advance will slow down. Who then will explain to the families of the dead fighters that they died because the Ukrainians received convinced fanatics who gained valuable experience in urban battles and our schemes developed during the assaults on Mariupol no longer work?
And these heroes will help to brainwash and those thousands who still doubted will go to the front, who will fight with them?
And why was this SVO even started if we suddenly release the most inveterate Nazis? How do you explain this to those whose relatives they killed, who lost their home? How do you explain this to those who fought with them in Mariupol and lost their comrades?

[AAK]

Serpentine is still officially the territory of Ukraine, so there will be no announcement even close ...

[kot423]

Quote: AAK

Serpentine is still officially the territory of Ukraine

Are you so naive? A referendum in the regions, a request for help to the LPR, = Our Serpentine (there are many variations, and leaving a rock at a key location for the passage of sea routes is at least stupid, no matter under whose jurisdiction it will be, the LPR or the Russian Federation)

[Volkof]

The commander of the Airborne Forces, as I understand it, it was after Bucha that they changed everything.

Until Mu-Mu is changed in the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Russia, nothing will happen. The Russian Armed Forces do not know how to wage a modern war, they fight like in the Second World War! Ships are not armed with long-range air defense systems, Russia does not know how to use AWACS, there are no reconnaissance aircraft and UAVs for issuing target designation in real time.
They don’t know how and don’t study, and they don’t want to change something .. Everything again rests on the valor of the Russian soldier. You have to fight not only against the enemy, but also the stupidity of the "great" military leaders ....

[Garris199]

Until Mu-Mu is changed in the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Russia, nothing will happen.

Mu Mu can be changed exclusively together with the generalissimo - cabinetmaker.

[Sexton]

The General Staff of the Armed Forces develops methods and methods of conducting combat operations, approves advanced concepts, formulates a requirement in the form of performance characteristics for weapons models and systems for their use, including target designation. Develops advanced organizational structures...
And what about others here?

[Third district]

Quote: Garris199

generalissimo cabinet maker

The cabinetmaker was the last, and this one seems to be a foreman.

[Tank hard]

Quote: Volkof

Until Mu-Mu is changed in the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Russia, nothing will happen. The Russian Armed Forces do not know how to wage a modern war, they fight like in the Second World War! Ships are not armed with long-range air defense systems, Russia does not know how to use AWACS, there are no reconnaissance aircraft and UAVs for issuing target designation in real time.
They don’t know how and don’t study, and they don’t want to change something .. Everything again rests on the valor of the Russian soldier. We have to fight not only against the enemy, but also the stupidity of the "great" military leaders.

They don't fight well enough. I have friends there. One with a second wound after resuscitation. I constantly communicate. And where did you get the information ???

[Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira]

He has from the censor ...

[Tank hard]

Quote: Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira

He has from the censor ...

Clear.

[konstantin68]

Quote: Volkof

The Russian Armed Forces do not know how to wage a modern war,

What country can do it?
Or do you know how?
Experience is gained today. And so it has always been. Nobody knows how to fight and never, everything is written from scratch.
I won't explain, I'm tired after work.

[Tank hard]

Quote: konstantin68

Experience is gained today. And so it has always been. Nobody knows how to fight and never, everything is written from scratch.

I will support. The opinion of my comrades who have seen various moments, from Afghanistan to Syria, inclusive, is a completely different war. And everyone was not ready for it, including the West.

[EvilLion]

Why not a bath, isoshny ghoul? Get out of here, your help somewhere near Slavyansk will not hurt. Now any meat will not hurt them.

[fruc]

According to the military, the island was left as a gesture of goodwill for the organization of humanitarian corridors and the export of grain from Odessa. Now Kyiv must clear the coast, as Zelensky promised...

There will be no humanitarian corridors, grain will not be taken out of Odessa, and the water area will not be cleared either. And what will happen, we will know in the near future.

[Dikson]

There will be harpoons and NATO air defense systems .. And then they will start shooting at Sevastopol from it ..

[Vlad1097]

They will be covered there with OTRK missiles and cruise missiles on the very first day of landing - it’s generally not clear why the hell we took this small piece of land and kept it for 4 months, suffering losses in people and equipment, essentially empty.

[konstantin68]

Quote: Dikson

There will be harpoons and NATO air defense systems

I think even a vigorous bomb will be delivered by adversaries. They will shoot.
So I think, maybe escape from Sevastopol? Correctly? Or stay?

[Dikson]

What's the point of running away from Sevastopol? What, the British are landing? Fascists are coming? The command suddenly decided to inspect the submarines? Not? Well, don’t worry then .. They won’t bring a bomb there, but they’ll rent the island for 50 years to some Romania, and not a single one of our bombs will fall there again, and a stationary NATO radar post and anti-ship missiles will appear in a couple of months or even faster .. How do you like this alignment of the "unnecessary useless island", for which so many equipment and people were ruined?

[konstantin68]

Quote: Dikson

but they will rent the island for 50 years to some Romania

If they could, they would have already passed, so it's not so simple.

[Dikson]

Stop it .. the main difficulty there is greed and calculation .. Shelf again .. So that a Ukrainian would just give something away ?! yes no .. Yes, and the situation was somewhat different .. now, when the threat of taking Nikolaev and Odessa looms before our eyes, you can give the island as a gift ..

[Negruz]

It was possible to hand over the Odessa region ... Why didn’t they hand over?

[Prisoner]

Aha, now! The root crop on the collar will be there.

[fuel oil]

We are waiting for statements from the new ombudsman about unnecessary raped snakes, fish, stones ...

[Tank hard]

Quote: Bearded

We are waiting for the landing of Ukrovermacht on Serpentine to be sent to a meeting with Bandero

According to some (Mikhail Onufrienko, for example), Snake Island has no military significance. This is a rock, it is not possible to "dig in" there. Any exhibited Ukrainian equipment will be quickly destroyed by aircraft and ships. However, the "reputational" losses of the Russian Federation and the leadership are very large. IMHO.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: Tank Hard

"reputational" losses of the Russian Federation and the leadership are very large. IMHO.

For idiots, such losses mean nothing.

[konstantin68]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

Quote: Tank Hard

"reputational" losses of the Russian Federation and the leadership are very large. IMHO.

For idiots, such losses mean nothing.

Exactly so, comrade sofa GENIUS!

[Tank hard]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

For idiots, such losses mean nothing.

Here the topic can be developed for a long time. However, to each his own.

[Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira]

The fact that ours will also sweep dill off the cliff is quite natural, but I allow myself to disagree with the "reputational" losses. Smart people on both sides understand the absurdity of statements to hold this rock with their teeth, but you can’t prove anything to stupid people, even crack. By the way, this is also noticeable here.

[Tank hard]

Quote: Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira

The fact that ours will also sweep dill off the cliff is quite natural, but I allow myself to disagree with the "reputational" losses. Smart people on both sides understand the absurdity of statements to hold this rock with their teeth

Well, the war isn't just around the rock. The information war often does just as much damage.

[Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira]

I agree, here we have something to work on, but as a result, the excellent propaganda of Goebels turned out to be just propaganda ... and the USSR army was in Berlin.

[Petrik66]

Who writes? telegram channel? What a chatter

[Tank hard]

Quote: Petrik66

Who writes? telegram channel? What a chatter

Now everything is in the cart. Even here they are lagging behind with news and other things.

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Hoarfrost

Such is the "gesture of good will."

so as not to regret the "good will gestures" the Ministry of Defense left a couple of submarines there, I hope?

[Akuzenka]

Yes, everything is as usual, in the latest history of the Russian Federation: "All the steam has gone into the whistle." That's all I'm looking for a reason to be proud of the country, and all the loud statements turn out to be lies. It's a pity for the lives of the guys who defended the island. May the earth rest in peace. And to the management: "Either take off the cross, or put on shorts."

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: AKuzenka

And to the management: "Either take off the cross, or put on shorts."

Who do you take them for?)
At least piss in their eyes)

[Koidaki]

Our troops left the city of Seaastopol, "Fighters and the wounded from Sevastopol evacuated" does not remind you of anything?

[Tank hard]

Quote from Koidaki

Our troops left the city of Seaastopol, "Fighters and the wounded from Sevastopol evacuated" does not remind you of anything?

So-so comparison ... Even with other different ones.

[Repellent]

Quote: Tank Hard

So so comparison...

Exactly

Tank, hello!

[Tank hard]

Quote: Repellent

Tank, hello!

Good day.

[Shark Lover]

sit on this piece of land, also rocky, under constant fire with everything you can. In principle, it is impossible to shoot down all the shells, especially since 155 caliber shells are not even economically profitable. I don’t understand why they went there at all, they would have launched more Reich soldiers there, but gasped at them. There are missiles that can split this island into several beaches (I don’t mean nuclear weapons)

[Torin]

Well, with the shell, there are clearly no questions, the BC is not infinite and it takes time to recharge. And here you can proof on: "... ending with the newest rescue tug Vasily Bekh. When the garrison was removed, they also write that the remaining equipment was destroyed." And then believe in the word well, such a thing.

[valentine light]

Several battalions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were laid down there, over 17 acres of unnecessary stone terrain.
The strategic value of the island after 2000 is doubtful, due to the new weapons on all sides.

[value]

After Ukraine received HIMARS, modern long-range GPS-guided artillery and anti-ship missiles, the island was doomed. Further finding was suicide. One thing is a pity that the command understood this too late, after a senseless huge number of our guys died. Unfortunately, our generals cannot get rid of the principle "women still give birth"

[Alex777]

Quote from Valio

After Ukraine received HIMARS, modern long-range GPS-guided artillery and anti-ship missiles, the island was doomed.

100500% yes.

Quote from Valio

Unfortunately, our generals cannot get rid of the principle "women still give birth"

You don't have to invent something that doesn't exist.
There were no huge losses on the island.
Simply because there was no huge garrison there.

[tralflot1832]

How many ambushed the VO. They have a holiday today, I predict there will be far over 400 comments.

[Alex777]

It took a long time to get our people out of there.
Even better would be not to enter. too small
this island in order to be able to
well positioned and defended.
PS, Minus me for my opinion notably.

[tralflot1832]

I myself am surprised that in order to sit on it painlessly, it was necessary to drive the Odessa region into the Stone Age.

[Alex777]

Quote: tralflot1832

I myself am surprised that in order to sit on it painlessly, it was necessary to drive the Odessa region into the Stone Age.

Odessa region will be useful to us as a whole.
As soon as we pick it up, we will return to Zmeiny.
And no NATO will prevent us from doing this.

[tralflot1832]

I agree completely!

[Titus_2]

I agree with you that this island with other areas will return to us.

[Alex777]

Quote: tralflot1832

Surprised myself

An interesting rumor leaked:

Regarding the statements that Zmeiny was exchanged for transit to Kaliningrad as part of the "grain negotiations" and the deal allegedly looks like this - the Russian Federation withdraws troops from Zmeiny, Ukraine clears ports and starts exporting grain to Turkey (from a certain stage under the control of Russian ships? Russia demanded inspection of ships , Ukraine refused), and the EU unblocks Kaliningrad (allegedly from Monday), then we will be able to see at the beginning of next week how much this is true.

Wait and see.

[tralflot1832]

Ukrainian ears stick out of this rumor! With Kaliningrad, it smells of gas. It’s already rushing. But with Svalbard, maybe we don’t have elements of influence against the Norgs. Barents Sea, and we also want to toughen it up. No matter how hard they go too far.

[Alex777]

Quote: tralflot1832

Ukrainian ears stick out of this rumor!

I don't think. All win in this case, the dog is under
tail. Ours agreed and took it out themselves.
And then the statement of the MO does not look so shameful.

[tralflot1832]

I love Gazprom, and speculators today slammed into billions and gas in Europe for $ 1600. Paradox.

[Alex777]

So "shareholders" in the West were waiting for the money and did not receive: Gazprom will not pay dividends for last year. This is a big grief for today.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Alex777

So "shareholders" in the West were waiting for the money and did not receive: Gazprom will not pay dividends for last year.

Is it okay that our citizens also got horseradish without oil? Although, yes, when our state was worried about such a trifle as the well-being of its citizens.

[Alex777]

You're right. Sorry for yours.

[Alex777]

Quote: tralflot1832

I love Gazprom, and speculators today slammed into billions and gas in Europe for $ 1600. Paradox.

The Sumerians have a version that the non-payment of dividends is connected with the preparation of Gazprom to stop supplies to the EU. Type - the money themselves will come in handy.

[Jager]

Kaliningrad may be blocked. That's the news! We have a lot of scheduling issues.

[Alex777]

All this is calculated and prepared for this. I won't
speak from where I know. Believe it or not.
The minus is not mine.

[Shark Lover]

Many consider themselves smarter than the entire military and political leadership. To offer from the sofa, to pour shit on many masters, but to make a decision and bear responsibility, then right away .... well, I ... We decided to withdraw, so it’s necessary, we decided to change the prisoners at least ss, then it’s necessary. Dissenters, together with the sofa, out, to Galkin as light masters for concerts, well, or, to cook and filter his porridge for his grandmother))))

[Repellent]

Quote: Alex777

Wait and see

Speaking of birds:

According to Reuters, the European Union is leaning towards a compromise agreement with Lithuania in order to defuse the conflict situation with Moscow. Transit to Kaliningrad may return to normal in the coming days, two agency sources said

 EU and Lithuania seek compromise on transit to Kaliningrad

https://www.dw.com/ru/es-i-litva-ishhut-kompromiss-po-tranzitu-v-kaliningrad/a-62309722

[Alex777]

When behind-the-scenes negotiations are going on, what is really
In fact, what is fog - you can guess, but it's hard to guess.

[Repellent]

Quote: Alex777

When there are backstage negotiations

Well, politics in general is such a ... non-public

I was pleased with the source, Reuters rarely messes up, as a rule, infa is true.

[military_cat]

Quote: Alex777

we will be able to see how all this is true at the beginning of next week.

Wait and see.

The week has crossed the middle, can you see anything?

[Alex777]

Quote: military_cat

The week has crossed the middle, can you see anything?

What exactly do you want to hear?
Johnson was fired.
And the whole world. Like no one before him.
I believe that Lithuania will calm down now.
There is a clear trend towards curtailing the war.
Although, PMSM, we do not need to stop.

[military_cat]

Quote: Alex777

Johnson was fired.

In exchange for leaving Snake Island?

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: Alex777

It took a long time to get our people out of there.

this is understandable, why write about "good will" again ?! Withdrawn in order to avoid losses, fire control is preserved and that's it! And then they already left the Kyiv region with "good will" - now they are trumpeting about Bucha

[Alex777]

If we do not understand something, then this is normal.
A little higher version of Rozhin duplicated. So
it would become clear why and why. Let's see.

[bk316]

Sitting under artillery fire and not being able to respond is somehow unpleasant.

[Alex777]

Almost unbearable. The Sumerians are complaining.
Ours must be protected from such "pleasure".

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: Alex777

It took a long time to get our people out of there.

Multipath, however.
Aren't you ashamed to disgrace the country?

[Alex777]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

Aren't you ashamed to disgrace the country?

Alexander! You have been in VO for a long time.
What exactly did you want to say?
Did not understand you. Here at all.

[Negruz]

Did not understand you. That's quite

"It is not surprising to understand him": it is more important for him to dump Putin than victory in this war ...
A modern take on Trotskyism....

[Alex777]

You're right. I have read his comments. God be his judge.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Negruz

"It is not surprising to understand him": it is more important for him to dump Putin than victory in this war ...

You be careful out there, turbopatriots. And then for excessive zeal you can suffer. In your words, slander of the special operation is clearly traced.

[Negruz]

Hospade, what is this?))

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Negruz

Hospade, what is this?))

Like what? This is your banal slander. You call the NWO war. And this is not so. I think you should be shot indicatively as a Trotskyist.

[Negruz]

What? Are you trying to make me laugh?)

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Negruz

What? Are you trying to make me laugh?)

No. Myself. There is no mood at all. And then all of a sudden my favorite anti-Soviet idiots showed up. Yes, and fighters with Trotskyism.

[Negruz]

"Anti-Soviet idiot" - who is this?

[IS-80_RVGK2]

How clueless you are.

[Negruz]

Feel free to say?

[Alex777]

His ban has expired. Here he sang.

[Alien From]

Your predictions on the comments came true....... As for the situation with the island, we can only guess on the coffee grounds, because we do not know the reality. of course it’s a pity for the dead people, it turns out for a sniff of tobacco ....

[Negruz]

Recounting bots...

[value]

Those who died on the cruiser Moscow, the tugboat Vasily Bekh, on the Raptors, helicopter landing, air defense crews, etc. Doesn't that seem like a big sacrifice to you?

[Alex777]

Quote from Valio

Those killed on the cruiser Moscow

What do you even know about the cruiser Moscow?
Helicopter landing of the Armed Forces of Ukraine - yes, he got into a big mess.
All Raptors are in service after repair.
Z.Y. Look elsewhere for trusting ears.

[Popescu Ion]

Have you ever seen a photo of a "Ukrainian" helicopter? It's so easy to prove whether he was Ukrainian or Russian... he was there all along.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: Alex777

What do you even know about the cruiser Moscow?

Vile, as if stuck in the mud ..
Read your comments.

[Alex777]

Now I understand your position.
I think there was an accident on the cruiser.
Because it hasn't been properly repaired.
One crew member was killed by fire and detonation.

[tralflot1832]

I also adhere to this opinion, I know how ships burn when a fire starts in the MKO. And in the stern behind the MKO, the SZ00 compartment and the deck there fell through between the launchers and the covers were open, they didn’t have time to shoot all the missiles. My opinion. Minus the internal bulkheads are aluminum, to facilitate hull weight.

[gjkrjdybr50]

In two months, did it seem to be on VO? You need to be baptized, it helps.

[AAK]

more than 150 dead and wounded per island less than a kilometer per kilometer - are these minor losses? If there is no knowledge, there should be no ill-conceived comments

[Grits]

Quote from Valio

After Ukraine received HIMARS, modern long-range GPS-guided artillery and anti-ship missiles, the island was doomed. Further finding was suicide.

I have been saying for a long time that as soon as new American artillery systems appear on the coast in the Odessa region, nothing will save our people on the island. There is no defense against simple projectiles, this is not a missile that can be shot down. That is why it was not clear to me why the hell we were not only gaining a foothold there, but also building up our strength?

[vitvit123]

Yours didn’t seem to die, they surrendered to captivity .. it was your clown who said it ..

[U_GOREC]

Quote from Valio

after a senseless huge number of our guys died.

How much is this in numbers?

Quote from Valio

Unfortunately, our generals cannot get rid of the principle "women still give birth"

Let's have the whole arsenal - There are no irreplaceable people! They cut the forest - the chips fly! ... and further according to the training manual - what guides people in life in Russia ...

[Alex777]

Apparently a Ukrainian wrote a comment.
They, during the assaults, laid a lot ...

[bk316]

They, during the assaults, laid a lot ...

Yes, and there aren't many of them.

[Alex777]

Was on the VO count. I acted as a pessimist in it,
and optimists counted more than 150 VSUshnikov 200x.
Given the fact that these were the losses of special forces, a lot.

[value]

In numbers, this is you to the Ministry of Defense. But it probably won't tell you. Mystery, sir... And since it's a secret, then it's irresponsibility. You can drive like cannon fodder. Ask the militias who, with mosquitoes and without bulletproof vests, go on the attack. Well, how many died on the cruiser Moscow, on the Tugboat, on the Raptors, we can only guess. Is this not enough for you?

[Piramidon]

Quote from Valio

In numbers, this is you to the Ministry of Defense

Well, yes, according to the principle - and I'm a simple user and I can carry any blizzard

[value]

Look, according to the figures, the Ministry of Defense has not updated the information for about 3 months. But from open sources (public condolences), at least 4000 thousand dead are known. Of course, it's good to be in sweet ignorance, but sometimes you need to face the truth.

[bk316]

Can be driven like cannon fodder

You have cannon fodder in the Armed Forces of Ukraine and terbats. We don't drive anyone anywhere. There are mistakes of the command, as in any war, but chasing the Volkssturm on artillery is your Khohlyatsky, and therefore the losses are 7 to 1. And women don’t give birth anymore, you are nurturing homosexuals. Well, yes, the amers don’t care at all whether they give birth to someone in 404 or not. Therefore, continue to fight in boilers.

[U_GOREC]

Quote: bk316

And women don’t give birth anymore, you are nurturing homosexuals.

Their women will now give birth to Poles and all sorts of other French

[Sergey74]

In numbers, this is you to the Ministry of Defense. But it probably won't tell you. Mystery, sir... And since it's a secret, then it's irresponsibility. You can drive like cannon fodder. Ask the militias who, with mosquitoes and without bulletproof vests, go on the attack. Well, how many died on the cruiser Moscow, on the Tugboat, on the Raptors, we can only guess. Is this not enough for you?

When people have nothing to say on the merits, the adequate ones are silent, and the rest are the same as you.

[value]

Listen to what Strelkov says, smart guy. Or would you also call him a Ukrainian agent? Because of such cheers for patriots like you, thousands of militias are dying in vain.

[Negruz]

Yes, Strelkov is a Ukrainian agent...
If you do not see the signature, all his statements about Russia since May 2014 are identical to the Kyiv propaganda...

[Vlad1097]

Yes, it seems to me that our people were simply squeezed out from there with massive shelling and the command decided to withdraw troops in view of the increased losses, and this is the second stupidity of our Defense Ministry to put it mildly, which consists in the fact that the operation to capture and hold it, as well as taking control of the Kyiv Chernihiv and Sumy regions, were not the enemy’s capabilities have not been properly assessed, and as a result we have absolutely useless operations, the significance of which we consider to be negative - we simply lost a large number of people and equipment, and all these explanations about the achievement of the task of achieving the goal "Withdrawal of the garrison will not allow Kyiv to speculate on the topic of the food crisis" are really miserable justifying their miscalculations and failures is just informational noodles on the ears of the people.

[Taimen]

Something a lot of gestures of "good will" have recently appeared with us. And somehow, after these gestures, one checkmate comes to mind. Give up a strategic island, just like that, it's ... checkmate ... checkmate ... checkmate. Who do we have such a "good will"? When will this (mate, mate) end. Surely these "good wills" do not teach us anything. They kick us, beat us, shoot us, impose sanctions, bark from all sides, chase diplomats and, as they say, already, as they say, they consider .And we show "good will". What will be the next "good will"? Fraternization with Zelensky and "brothers" in the trenches? Even Bucha did not teach anything. Eh, (then one continuous mat).

[Alexey RA]

Quote from Valio

After Ukraine received HIMARS, modern long-range GPS-guided artillery and anti-ship missiles, the island was doomed.

Yes, everything was clear there even before HIMARS - the same "Tornados" from the Kuban Island calmly reached the Snake Island.

[Skubudu]

Quote from Valio

. One thing is a pity that the command understood this too late, after a senseless huge number of our guys died. Unfortunately, our generals cannot get rid of the principle "women still give birth"

What are you talking about a huge amount of...
I am from the 810 brigade, our guys were there in every race ... there were no big losses ...
Ukro.f.a.sh.i.s.t.y lost a lot more there.
The final race returned without loss.

[abc_alex]

Quote from Valio

Unfortunately, our generals cannot get rid of the principle "women still give birth"

Do you mean Ukrainian generals? I think that in the near future we will really see an example of actions on their part in such a logic.
But, apparently, you don’t know, and it will be new for you, but neither Stalin, nor Zhukov, nor Peter the Great ever said anything like that, in any case, there is no such documented fact anywhere. This is a stinking Western-liberal false tale that our liberal "intelligentsia" has been chewing on for a quarter of a century.

Well, so that it’s not so sweet for you to savor, I hasten to remind you that the Iskander missile system can reach ANY point on the coast from Odessa to Constanta almost from Feodosia. And if it occurs to someone from ukrov to bring equipment and troops to Serpentine, their fate is unenviable. However, in the best traditions of the primordially Western thesis "women are still giving birth" no one will be interested in this, Zelensky has already distributed heroism there posthumously once, and will distribute it again.

[Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira]

Specify, with a link to sources, the figure of the "meaningless huge number" of our guys who died on this island ... well, so that no one here by mistake accidentally thinks that you are a balabol, and not a serious person and know the "materiel" well. We wait...

[meandr51]

How many divisions died there?

[EvilLion]

Yes, countless numbers of your people died there, in helicopters alone, during the May raid, how many were ruined.

[vdv_555]

They write there MTR shniks were also marines. How many died one can only guess.

[avg]

Soberly assessed their ability to hold the island and reputational losses during the withdrawal of the garrison. The conclusion was correct. It is not clear how the situation will develop in the future. In the event of a kaklov landing on Serpentine, it will still serve as a shooting range for the Black Sea Fleet and a headache for Ze.

[Smoker]

To make it clear how difficult it is to maintain a contingent on the island:
About the heroism of our warriors in the defense of Serpent's Island
https://telegra.ph/O-geroizme-nashih-voinov-v-zashchite-ostrova-Zmeinyj-06-25


Now the Ukrainians have brought long-range artillery with GPS - in general, the heat is on the platter.

Today, the Urosmi posted a photo of the shelling of the island:
https://t.me/milinfolive/86067

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Smoker

About the heroism of our warriors in the defense of Serpent's Island

Thanks for the link.

[Archivist Vasya]

Yes, our fleet in the Black Sea is so-so, to put it mildly, since air defense is unable to repel attacks from the air.
But the article at the end says that control of the island is a strategically important task.
And how now to understand retreat? I hope I chose the lesser of two evils.

[BastaKarapuzik And]

Never be the target. If they can shoot at you, you are dead.
No missile interception gives a 100% guarantee.
You cannot intercept all missiles and shells.

[dauria]

Yes, our fleet in the Black Sea is so-so, to put it mildly, since air defense is unable to repel attacks from the air.

Near the coast, any fleet turns into a target, which even a blind shooter will eventually hit. At least the task of this fleet is to set a normal one in terms of interaction with the infantry, and not just hang out in the sea within the reach of anti-ship missiles and front-line aviation, protecting themselves.

[Graz]

what prevents you from burning out all living things from the places of shelling with a thermobaric? everything needs to be burned on the coast

[Glory1974]

About the heroism of our warriors in the defense of Serpent's Island

Heroism, yes, is definitely present!
But what a mess. Civil sailors were attracted, there are no social guarantees. Go and die do not understand why? Shame on these leaders.
Load air defense systems onto boats, the admiral behind the crane levers, what is that? Land air defense systems are tied to ships, because according to the state there are none on patrol ships. What a mess! Where landing want to ask. Or rather, where are the executions, God forgive me.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: glory1974

But what a mess. Civil sailors were attracted, there are no social guarantees.

Not civilian sailors, but the civilian crew of a Navy auxiliary vessel.
Because the mentioned marine self-propelled floating crane SPK-54150 has been part of the Black Sea Fleet since the end of 2019 and carries a blue flag with an St. Andrew's cross on a white field in the upper left quarter.

The self-propelled floating crane SPK-54150 was laid down in St. Petersburg at JSC Shipbuilding Company Almaz (serial number 910). he arrived on 31.08.2018/2019/11.11.2019. The fleet entered service on 28.11.2019/XNUMX/XNUMX.

But the question of guarantees is yes, a good question. It is forbidden to send conscripts to the NWO zone, but the civilian personnel of the Navy, znachitstsa, can be without any guarantees?

Quote: glory1974

Land-based air defense systems are tied to ships, because according to the state there are none on patrol ships. What a mess!

Ave, Caesar commander-in-chief Chirkov...

[ramzay21]

Or rather, where are the executions, God forgive me.

There is a strict principle ....... we do not hand over our own

[aslanxnumx]

It was sober to land troops in the area of ​​​​Primorskoye and Landing

[U_GOREC]

Quote: avg

In the event of a kaklov landing on Serpentine, it will still serve as a shooting range for the Black Sea Fleet and a headache for Ze.

What if NATO landed there?

[Repellent]

Quote from U_GOREC

What if NATO landed there?

Or aliens.

NATO could just as well "land" anywhere on the part of Ukarina controlled by Kyiv. But for some reason it won't land...

[vadson]

in Ochakovo, the base was gouged at the beginning and I don’t care that the impudent Saxons were sitting there

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: avg

It is not clear how the situation will develop in the future.

Absolutely clear.
Ukrainians will shell Sevastopol.
Then we will leave from there, for "good will".
We are ruled by incompetent cowards and traitors.

[Repellent]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

Ukrainians will shell Sevastopol

From Serpentine, I presume?

The circle in the picture is the area available to Onyx. For example.

Not to mention other Calibers.

Quote: Alexey Sommer

Then we will leave from there, for "good will"

In the last war, alarmists were shot. We should go to this one too ... but, yes, we don’t have a war

Your happiness.

Quote: Alexey Sommer

We are ruled by incompetent cowards and traitors

What a pity that everyone who knows how to govern the state is already working as taxi drivers and hairdressers (attributed to Mitterrand).

* not competent - written together. Tribune, damn

[Osipov9391]

The "Shells" and "Thors" have a very small range and ammunition.
And in the area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbthe island, everyone who is not lazy and who are completely out of reach for such things fly.
From German AWACS to American F-35s that circled around yesterday.
And it is impossible to fight off even the latter in which case such air defense systems are impossible.
There then no one would understand whose planes attacked.

Here is the "Moscow" with the S-300F, yes. Could reach high-altitude targets at a distance.
And the fact that they put it on the island is so, more for reassurance.

[V. Salama]

Quote: Osipov9391

The "Shells" and "Thors" have a very small range and ammunition.
And in the area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbthe island, everyone who is not lazy and who are completely out of reach for such things fly.
From German AWACS to American F-35s that circled around yesterday.
And it is impossible to fight off even the latter in which case such air defense systems are impossible.

Our island was left as unnecessary. Yes, and it was problematic to sit under fire, shoot down Hurricanes shells is expensive, which is a joy for Ukraine. And let them fly - there is no one to fight back. The island will not even occupy the APU - there is little joy in sitting in a trap. Maybe they’ll put up their pennant by helicopter in order to fix it, so it’s only a disgrace to yourself.

[opuonmed]

like they gave carte blanche to shell the crimea?

[IL-18]

Quote from: stirrer

But what about the statements that there one Shell shot down both planes and MLRS missiles?

They don’t put intelligence reports on the table for me, but apparently it was decided to strengthen the air defense zone of Zmeinny Island by deploying divisions in the Zaporozhye, Nikolaev and Odessa regions. Well, the more fun today is the premoha, the bitterer tomorrow will be.

[Corrosion inhibitor]

I'm worried about a few other things, I quote

... the Russian garrison left the island voluntarily.

I didn’t understand, are they fighting with our artels now? Do they have self-government or something? ..
If you perceive the correspondent of the newspaper as he writes, then that's how it turns out!.. Some kind of nonsense, a kindergarten. Petya was offended and left himself, because Vasya teased and called names ..
A retreat with a total advantage is the same maneuver as an offensive. And it should be voiced accordingly. The article should have had a completely different text. What do we care what the U.K.R.s say? We must speak our mind!
Sometimes one gets the feeling that for VO the children of generals write articles that have never seen anything but the Internet in their lives. Or children's psychiatrists who confused the audience.

[V. Salama]

Quote: Corrosion_Inhibitor

Sometimes one gets the feeling that for VO the children of generals write articles that have never seen anything but the Internet in their lives. Or child psychiatrists...

Everything is more complicated here, however. My observations and analysis of the goals, means and methods of the ideological work of neoconservatives and neoliberals showed that in certain situations their ideologies converge and follow the third path. And here we are fighting, often with each other, taking one side or another due to the peculiarities of our awareness. Accept it as a fact, or even as a hypothesis, and it will enrich your analysis toolkit.

[Corrosion inhibitor]

Thanks for the tip. Such thoughts also flickered. But, I somehow got used to the fact that the newspaper has an editorial office. However, if anyone else thinks so, I can't help but take note.

[V. Salama]

Quote: Corrosion_Inhibitor

But, I somehow got used to the fact that the newspaper has an editorial office.

Yes, what kind of newspaper and editorial staff are like this, and what kind of pop, such is the parish with time. Many interesting people left VO. And your time is mostly taken away by the editors, under the guise of parishioners, however. I think this is also useful to know.

[kakvastam]

Worst news in recent days. Gostomel, Serpentine - what's next?

[Bomb]

Odessa and Kharkov.

[U_GOREC]

Quote: Bomb

Odessa and Kharkov.

The surrender of Serpentine suggests that the capture of Odessa, in the near future, is not planned. If planned at all. When occupying the entire coastline, nothing would threaten the Snake.

[Alex777]

Quote from U_GOREC

The surrender of Serpentine suggests that the capture of Odessa, in the near future, is not planned.

The surrender does not say anything, except for the savings of people.

Quote from U_GOREC

When occupying the entire coastline, nothing would threaten the Snake.

When we occupy the coastline, then we will return to the island.

[opuonmed]

interestingly, they took it with a stalemate, gave it up with a stalemate, what are we going to give away, will we leave Ukraine?

[aglet]

"The surrender of Serpentine suggests that the capture of Odessa, in the near future, is not planned. If it is planned at all"
not planned at all. the commander-in-chief said, our goal is to protect the Donbass. and that's it. well, that's if you have enough strength

[alexmach]

Surrender Serpentine says

Well, let's face it, so far this is not a surrender. Troops are being evacuated from there for the second time.

[Negruz]

The capture of Odessa has nothing to do with the snake ....

[Osipov9391]

This is impossible without at least partial mobilization.
Arithmetically it won't add up.
Russia operates with a very limited peacetime force.
Which in terms of the Ground Forces and the Marine Corps were already tiny for such a country.
And our losses, both human and material, are not compensated by anything.
But in Ukraine, no matter what they say, there are less and less problems with this - wave after wave of mobilization, establishing supplies of everything from the West.
This suggests that somehow Ukraine will be able to carry out the rotation of forces.
And Russia is not with such a number.

[Repellent]

Quote: Osipov9391

This says that somehow Ukraine will be able to rotate the

Ukraine is already conducting a "rotation" - most of them - to Bandera, the rest - into captivity. Those who dropped out are replaced by shkolota and disabled people.

I'm exaggerating a little, but the direction, in general, is just that. "Preparation for the Earth".

Quote: Osipov9391

But Russia is not with such a number

And it's right that "no"

[Mikhail Sidorov]

Worst news in recent days. Gostomel, Serpentine - what's next?

Supplies of anti-ship missiles (and not only) from the west make the retention and defense of the island unpromising.
It's a shame to give the key to Odessa.

[svoit]

Quote: Mikhail Sidorov

retention and defense of the island unpromising.

Well, if you can’t take Nikolaev and Odessa yet, then it’s quite possible to reach the Dniester estuary, a very limited theater of operations

[Bomb]

Thus, the sea route for the supply of weapons is open.

[sgrabik]

This is bullshit, the Black Sea and without the Snake Island is shot up and down, this island does not matter too much here, if necessary, we will sink any ship anywhere in the Black Sea.

[Osipov9391]

So this sea route has existed to this day through Romania, where all arrived ships and transports are reliably covered by their air defense and aviation.
And further along the land (by trucks and by rail) to the Odessa region.

[Serg65]

Quote: Bomb

Thus, the sea route for the supply of weapons is open.

And was it closed?

[aglet]

"Thus, the sea route for the supply of weapons is open"
don't bullshit. the snake did not close anything, from the word at all. and for weapons, land passages are quite enough, to which our commanders do not pay attention

[Andrey VOV]

Serpent's Island is not the key to Odessa

[Pavel73]

What other "key" to what Odessa?! Putin made it clear from the very beginning that our plans DO NOT include the occupation of Ukraine. And then the Ministry of Foreign Affairs officially announced that we are NOT GOING TO overthrow the official government in Ukraine. And it was repeatedly repeated that the task of the NWO is to protect Russia, Donbass, as well as the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine. But there is no occupation of Ukraine, and it was not planned initially. The occupation of Serpentine, Gostomel, Chernobyl and other places was the solution of TACTICAL tasks. Which can change as the situation develops, the attitudes of the local population, and the world situation. Distracting maneuvers for example. Or a deliberate occupation of generally unnecessary territories in order to then take a demonstrative step back. There may be many different options. What is happening is not a war in the old classical sense of the word: to occupy the entire territory, and place your flags and your power everywhere. The intentions are completely different. If that's how it's done, then that's how it should be.

[Pavel73]

And who exactly?

[ABC-schutze]

And who said that the planned task of demilitarization and denazification of the Kyiv regime, set by the President, is somehow connected with some kind of "occupation"? ..

The expulsion and disarmament of the Kyiv Nazis, during the SVO. This time...

The establishment of a political regime loyal to Russia in the territories liberated from the power of the Kyiv Nazis. These are two...

And whether the new authorities will have the intention to join Russia, or become sovereign, loyal partners of Moscow, who turned to her for guarantees of military security, this will be their decision. So, no "occupations" ...

[Vlad Baryatinsky]

Quote: Pavel73

What other "key" to what Odessa?! Putin made it clear from the very beginning that our plans DO NOT include the occupation of Ukraine.

The President clearly and clearly stated: Demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine.

Quote: Pavel73

Occupation of Serpentine, Gostomel, Chernobyl and other places - it was the solution of TACTICAL problems

You are mistaken again.
The landing on Gostomel, as an idea to capture a bridgehead near Kyiv, was good.
With the subsequent landing and unloading of troops, from the transport boards of the VKS.
Another thing is that it had to be done synchronously with the beginning of the SVO.
And further advancement to Kyiv from Belarus, an armored fist with motorized infantry.

[voyaka uh]

"The landing on Gostomel, as an idea to seize a bridgehead near Kyiv, was good.
With subsequent landing and unloading of troops, from the transport boards of the VKS "///
----
The plan was too obvious, too transparent for the enemy. APU prepared for it. They shot artillery at the airfield. Prepared their special forces.
Therefore, the operation failed.
Airborne landings were cancelled.

[Vlad Baryatinsky]

Quote: voyaka uh

The plan was too obvious, too transparent for the enemy. APU prepared for it.

Looking from the height of today, your statement is accepted.
In the context of the events of 24'02'2022, no!
Let me explain: If yes, if only, the landing would have been landed SYNCHRONOUSLY with the start of the "NOR" and at the same time the advancement of the armored fist from Belarus, then it could, and most likely succeeded, create a strong foothold over Kyiv with far-reaching plans. In reality, the landing was thrown out in the AFTERNOON.
The leadership of the “95 quarter” ALREADY came to its senses after the SHOCK of the beginning of the day.
Moreover, almost with the beginning of the SVO, the media literally burst into tears about the movement of the Belarusian group of the Russian Federation.
From this, the “obviousness” of your comment came to light.
P.S. ... well, while I was "scribbling" an answer to you, the pizza was burnt

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Pavel73

What is happening is not a war in the old classical sense of the word: to occupy the entire territory, and place your flags and your power everywhere. The intentions are completely different. If that's how it's done, then that's how it should be..

It remains only to find out - who should have, and why the heck, started taking this Ukrainian fort-Boyard?
And here is such interesting information from N-years ago:

15: 14 11.12.2017 (updated: 08:50 03.03.2020)
Home with victory: Putin ordered the withdrawal of troops from Syria
https://ria.ru/20171211/1510656993.html

[Serg65]

Quote: ROSS 42

It remains only to find out - who should have, and why the heck, started taking this Ukrainian fort-Boyard?

I watch the communists more and more begin to turn into scoundrel boys, have the bourgeois really brought a big barrel of jam?

[Bayun]

The bourgeois won in 1991. What is happening is a consequence of their victory.

Will Russia be able to resist World Globalism in a different form? I guess yes. But this is no longer a "class struggle", completely lost by the world proletariat, but a completely different story;)

[Serg65]

Quote: Bayun

The bourgeois won in 1991

Come on, in 1991 the Communist-Leninists won, that is, the true Social Democrats!

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Serg65

I watch the communists more and more begin to turn into scoundrel boys, have the bourgeois really brought a big barrel of jam?

What it means start to turn? Well, this is their favorite pastime - to wish for the defeat of Russia and turn the imperialist war into a civil war.

And at first it made sense: in the same WWI, the VIL demanded that the working class of all countries participating in the war rise up against their governments, so that there would be no winners. But when it turned out that the French and German socialists were in favor of freezing internal squabbles until the end of the war, the VIL declared them traitors and decided to continue the work only in Russia, which led to its defeat. True, the bourgeoisie managed to screw up here too, ruining the country before the arrival of the Bolsheviks.

[Serg65]

Quote: Alexey RA

True, the bourgeoisie managed to screw up here too

Don't you think it was a pre-planned action? In my opinion .... the whole scenario collapsed with Stalin's breakthrough to power, and instead of fighting for the World Revolution, the USSR began to build state capitalism ... under red banners!

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Serg65

Don't you think it was a pre-planned action? In my opinion .... the whole scenario collapsed with Stalin's breakthrough to power, and instead of fighting for the World Revolution, the USSR began to build state capitalism ... under red banners!

You should think more and write less. There is more than enough nonsense on the Internet.

[Serg65]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

You should think more and write less.

In addition to rudeness, what else do you have to say on this topic?

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Serg65

In addition to rudeness, what else do you have to say on this topic?

Your nonsense about Stalin is complete nonsense. Is that clearer? He did not build any state capitalism. And he tried to build communism. But I see the bourgeoisie is trying to rank Stalin among the builders of capitalism. To fool the people for their filthy purposes.

[Serg65]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Your nonsense about Stalin is complete nonsense.

A good start.

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

He did not build any state capitalism

Well, of course ... in the USSR, everything nominally belonged to the people, but in fact to the state with an irremovable leader!

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

I see the bourgeoisie is trying to rank Stalin among the builders of capitalism

Capitalism and STATE capitalism are two different comrades!!!

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Serg65

Capitalism and STATE capitalism are two different comrades!!!

No, this is the same capitalism. Since power in the country belongs to the ruling class of capitalists. And he manages and makes a profit in his favor from state assets. Demagogy did not work. Try again.

[Serg65]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Try again.

The third attempt to cleanse the world of dogma...

The ruling class in political science and sociology is a social class that has concentrated under its control the functions of management in various spheres of society and, as a result, receives maximum benefits in the structure of society created by it.

In the USSR, the working class was formally the ruling class, wasn't it? The Communist Party was the vanguard of the working class, right?
And if so, then .... did ordinary workers (representatives of the ruling class) participate in the management of their state? Did ordinary communist workers participate in the election of members of the Politburo? profile ministers? Directors of factories and factories? Were factories and factories joint-stock enterprises in which the workers of these enterprises were shareholders? I have been consciously observing Soviet life from the very bottom since 1982, I can answer these questions that, no .... ordinary workers did not have such powers! Those. in the USSR, a party-state conglomerate was created that governs the country alone, without the participation of ordinary Soviet citizens, and this is nothing more than state capitalism, in which the role of the owner of capital was played by the party-state apparatus!
Even old man Engels warned ....

communists, forced to come to power as a result of the helplessness and lethargy of all the other opposition parties, when the material and organizational conditions for the implementation of socialism have not yet matured, will be forced to practically realize not their program and not their own interests, but general revolutionary and petty-bourgeois interests - the interests of a class alien to them, getting off from his own class with phrases, promises and assurances that the interests of the other class are his own.

Your move, Makar!

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Serg65

In the USSR, the working class was formally the ruling class, wasn't it?

And so and not so. You probably know that in the OEF there are at the same time remnants of previous OEFs and the beginnings of future ones? Therefore, yes, the ruling class was the working class, which then moved in fact to a classless society. But at the same time, remnants in the public consciousness of people and the state apparatus itself did not allow this to be done in full.

Quote: Serg65

in which the party-state apparatus played the role of the owner of capital!

The owner who cannot inherit the property is a doubtful owner.

Quote: Serg65

Even old man Engels warned

And why is old Engels quoted here at all? Survive nichrome judging by the fact that you are quoting completely off topic, they did not understand what he said.

[Serg65]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

remnants in the public consciousness of people and the state apparatus itself did not allow this to be done in full.

Well ... then who in the USSR had the right to decide for himself for everyone?

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

The owner who cannot inherit the property is a doubtful owner.

Therefore, the Union has sunk into oblivion!

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Survive nichrome judging by the fact that you are quoting completely off topic, they did not understand what he said.

From what, what the fuck did I understand, namely, that all dogmatic teachings are shattered into dust when they meet reality! Stalin understood this even during the Turukhansk exile, when the ephemeral dreams of party fraternity and mutual assistance were shattered by the banal unwillingness of the Swiss inmates to pull Joseph out of the northern snows.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Alexey RA

True, the bourgeoisie managed to screw up here too, ruining the country before the arrival of the Bolsheviks.

Which confirms the fact that the revolution is the result of an objective combination of circumstances caused by global trends in the development of society, and not some intrigues of the German General Staff with the help of sealed wagons.

[alexey sidykin]

Quote: Serg65

I watch the communists more and more begin to turn into scoundrel boys

And for me, they became bad guys a long time ago ... I realized this back in the early XNUMXs when they together began to throw mud at the GDP.

[Serg65]

Quote: Alexey Sedykin

I understood this at the beginning of the XNUMXs when they together began to throw mud at the GDP.

Zero ... in 1996, Zyuganov leaked the presidential election, not for the same beautiful eyes!

[alexey sidykin]

Quote: Serg65

In 1996, Zyuganov leaked the presidential election not for the same beautiful eyes!

I'm not talking about the top, there were no normal ones there, I'm talking about a lower level. In 96 there were still many patriotic-minded people, but with the beginning of the XNUMXs, there were fewer of them and more and more of those who were ready to arrange another revolution.

[Negruz]

They are Trotskyists...

[Serg65]

Quote: Negruz

They are Trotskyists...

And who are the Leninists? And how do they differ from Trotskyists?

[Negruz]

Who are the "Trotskyists"?
Like this

[Serg65]

Quote: Negruz

Who are the "Trotskyists"?
Like this

And with your mind? Without a prompt from Comrade Friedland!

[U_GOREC]

Quote: Pavel73

If that's how it's done, then that's how it should be.

Who needs? Do you think Russian passports are issued in Kherson just like that? Then we leave from there, and the citizens will remain?
Of course, this is not the occupation of Ukraine, this is a reduction in its size ...

[Pavel73]

No one is going to occupy, let alone forcefully annex Ukraine against the will of the population of its regions.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Pavel73

No one is going to occupy, let alone forcefully annex Ukraine against the will of the population of its regions.

People, not without reason, fear that they may suffer for their pro-Russian sentiments if they remain outside of Russia - with the very Ukraine that they do not want to annex by force ... Well, or as an expression of goodwill ...

[Marty]

Good comment. I don’t understand why everyone decided that Russia decided to increase itself in size at the expense of the territory of Ukraine. The main goal is to protect the border of their territory. And not bringing the border closer to the NATO borders.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote from Marty

Good comment. I don’t understand why everyone decided that Russia decided to increase itself in size at the expense of the territory of Ukraine.

When Crimea became part of Russia, no one even hatched any idea of ​​increasing the territory of the Russian state.

Quote from Marty

The main goal is to protect the border of their territory.

The main goal is to ensure the legitimacy of the choice of the population of the regions of Ukraine. Mostly those who from birth considered themselves Russian and their entry into the Russian Federation on legal grounds. It is clear that in this case the territory of Russia will increase.

Quote from Marty

And not bringing the border closer to the NATO borders.

You, forgive me ... It was NATO that made promises to the HMS ... It was he who brushed aside the money offered by Germany for the withdrawal of troops (GSVG).
*****
Some leaders of the country were downright eager to cut Russian lands for the sake of the adversary ... HMS, EBN, DAM ... Why not please the "native little man" ...
Paraphrasing Griboedov A.S.
The Russian people are not my own.
But only the one that is ordinary.

[navigator777]

Another defeat of Russia and not the last one, our Ministry of Gestures of Goodwill will bring us to disaster. Deliveries of Western weapons are already bearing fruit.

[Vlad Baryatinsky]

Quote: navigator777

Another defeat for Russia

I would not interpret it this way, the withdrawal of the garrison from Serpentine.
Rather, at this stage, it is not relevant in terms of tasks.

[navigator777]

Quote: Vlad Baryatinsky

Quote: navigator777

Another defeat for Russia

I would not interpret it this way, the withdrawal of the garrison from Serpentine.
Rather, at this stage, it is not relevant in terms of tasks.

It is just necessary that the regime does not lie to the people, but explains on the fingers that at this stage its retention is not advisable. They either take the people for idiots or they are idiots themselves.

[alexey sidykin]

Are you talking about idiots about yourself? Considering that the Government of the Russian Federation is a "regime" for you, then all your pity here is a filkin's letter ...

[sgrabik]

I agree that we urgently need to end the "gestures of goodwill", this Western menagerie is simply not ready and not able to objectively understand and appreciate these gestures of ours, which means there is no point in them.

[Osipov9391]

So these deliveries have not really begun yet - everything is being accumulated in Slovakia, Poland, Romania and NATO bases in Europe.
Until that is called "try" gave.
And then, as soon as all this is trampled, our affairs will become bad - how would Kherson and Melitopol be kept.

[bayard]

Quote: Mikhail Sidorov

Supplies of anti-ship missiles (and not only) from the west make the retention and defense of the island unpromising.

This suggests that the RF Armed Forces have no immediate plans to capture Odessa and the region, and keeping the garrison under constant attacks by MLRS and artillery is really futile.
Another thing is that for Sumeria, the capture of the island has no prospects other than a propaganda effect - its garrisons will be regularly demolished by air strikes, and they do not have effective air defense systems for the island. So now we will switch places and it is they who will suffer stable losses on Serpentine without the opportunity to gain a foothold.
The only thing that is a pity is that the ability to carry a radar patrol on the island is being lost, and it is almost impossible to keep ships there due to the threat of coastal anti-ship missiles.

The pace of the special operation is a constant surprise and casts doubt on the ultimate goal of all this.

[U_GOREC]

Quote: bayard

Another thing is that for Sumeria, the capture of the island has no prospects other than a propaganda effect - its garrisons will be regularly demolished by air strikes, and they do not have effective air defense systems for the island. So now we will switch places and it is they who will suffer stable losses on Serpentine without the opportunity to gain a foothold.

And if now, during the NATO summit, Ukraine shows "good will" and "returns" the island to Romania... And the NATO garrison will land there... Are you sure that we will bomb it?

[aglet]

"And there the NATO garrison will land"
Well, let him land, what could he threaten there? the island is tiny, you cannot place serious weapons there, any hit by any weapon capable of reaching the island will lead to fatal losses for the garrison - there is nowhere to hide there

[bayard]

Interesting twist.
But just then, nothing prevents re-occupying the island and claiming legal rights to it. In b\Ukraine, the borders are not demarcated - it DOES NOT have legal territories AT ALL according to international law.
In general, it's time to simply declare the Bialowieza conspiracy of three criminals invalid and unenforceable. Moreover, there is not a single copy of that "agreement" in any of the 3 "states".
But there is no document, there is no "agreement".
And what kind of "Yeltsincenter" can we talk about on the territory of the Soviet Union?
What is the legitimacy of power in Kyiv?
Other union republics?
Conduct consultations with the management of these, work out legal issues, start the negotiation process. In the end, the Russian Federation is not only the legal successor of the USSR, but also the Republic of Ingushetia.

Quote from U_GOREC

Are you sure that we will bomb him?

It all depends on the plans of the military command and the Supreme Command both for this island and for the entire company as a whole.
RF does not pull the war?
She is pulled ... it is the Kremlin that is PULLING. Like a cat for the genitals.
Why
They don't talk about it, and apparently they won't.
And they will bomb it like any worthy target on the territory of Ukraine.

[Osipov9391]

No Ukrainians (if they appear on the island) will be demolished by aircraft.
Firstly, several Crimean Su-300SMs were sent from the Odessa region S-30 to the bottom of the Black Sea.
Secondly, NATO fighters, with the support of AWACS, fly around the island at home.
So the Ukrainian group has nothing to fear if they gain a foothold there. Although it makes no sense.

[bayard]

Quote: Osipov9391

No Ukrainians (if they appear on the island) will be demolished by aircraft.

Why wouldn't this happen?

Quote: Osipov9391

Firstly, several Crimean Su-300SMs were sent from the Odessa region S-30 to the bottom of the Black Sea.

I have no confidence in the reliability of this, but for a strike it is not at all necessary to rise above the radio horizon for the Odessa air defense systems. But they will probably continue to deal with the air defense systems themselves.

Quote: Osipov9391

Secondly, NATO fighters, with the support of AWACS, fly around the island at home.

They always fly there and this did not interfere and does not prevent us from striking targets in / on. Do you think NATO will go to war?

Quote: Osipov9391

if they stick there.

If they become fixed , they will regularly reset to zero . And there is no practical sense for them to dispose of l \ s there.
It is also irrational for Russia to keep a garrison there. Interest was only about radar control in that area, so as not to keep the ships under attack. Now that doesn't make sense either.

[Osipov9391]

Aviation practically does not fly to those parts over the Black Sea. Shoot down.
It’s not for me to explain to you that AWACS detects planes taking off from Crimea in advance and merges them into the headquarters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
And they are already preparing to "meet". And until then, nothing will change.
Ships practically do not go to those parts. Dangerous - you can get anti-ship missiles on board.
So the island and its adjacent water areas are completely controlled by Ukraine.

[bayard]

Quote: Osipov9391

So the island and its adjacent water areas are completely controlled by Ukraine.

What is the use for them in this, except for the media?
But the fact that an exchange took place - the unblocking of the ports of Odessa for the unblocking of the Kaliningrad region and our settlements on Spitz-Bergen, is quite likely.
.. Moreover, Konashenkov, such nonsense about unblocking ports for the sake of exporting grain, sporol ... What does the military care about the problems of world hunger?
Only if they were told that this was an exchange for the sake of the starving France, Germany and other Luxembourg ... And he, not being smart ... flashed with what was not.

Quote: Osipov9391

Aviation practically does not fly to those parts over the Black Sea. Shoot down.

If done wisely, they will not be shot down from the shore. It’s not like throwing iron from them from a flight.
But if there is an agreement (and everything happened almost on the same day), then they will probably leave the island alone until they take it out.
Here, by the way, is a message from N. Gamenyuk that "it's too early for the Armed Forces of Ukraine to restore the garrison on the island."
And if the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are not going to Odessa yet, then why risk the garrison there.

[Osipov9391]

The benefit to Ukraine may be that missiles from the territory of the Odessa region can easily reach the Crimea.
And ships in the area. Even civilian. The same "Harpoon" will fly up to 280 km.

[bayard]

On the island, that "Harpoon" has nowhere to hide, just appear - they will demolish (we will demolish) with the top layer of rocky soil. And they can try to get to the Crimea from the coast, at least there is where to hide it.
But the flag will probably be dragged there.
And they will shoot a "heroic" video.

[Osipov9391]

So I’m talking about this and say that in the absence of air defense on Serpentine, missiles from the territory of the Odessa region will fly to the coast of Crimea.
280 km it allows. Perhaps civilian ships will be attacked.

[bayard]

Old-type missiles were delivered to \ on - 120 km. But if there are 280 km. , then the air defense on the island did not interfere with them - having a range of 20 km. , with a distance to the coast of 35 km. If you do not make a candle at the start too high, then the radar station from the island may not be seen.

Quote: Osipov9391

Perhaps civilian ships will be attacked.

Well, let him try - those same grain carriers.
who will expose civilian ships under attack? All routes now bypass them in circles - you can expect anyone from violently crazy people.

[Negruz]

So I’m talking about this and say that in the absence of air defense on Serpentine, missiles from the territory of the Odessa region will fly to the coast of Crimea.
280 km it allows. Perhaps civilian ships will be attacked.

There was no our air defense on the serpentine one, no Ukrainian missiles flew to the Crimea ....
Enough already?

[Osipov9391]

Haven't flown to Crimea yet. But it flew more than once on drilling platforms.
They just have limited range.
There will be serious missiles - they will fly.
And on Snake without air defense (such as "Torah"), ours could not be located at all.
It was us. And more than once it was destroyed by the Ukrainians.

[Negruz]

The platforms were attacked by aircraft, by the way, during temporary the presence of short-range snake air defense ...
You are talking about "missiles from the territory of the Odessa region" ...
Stop breeding...

[Osipov9391]

And what kind of aircraft were they attacked by?
What kind of Novoshakhtinsky oil refinery was attacked or what kind of "Vasliy Bekh" was hit?

[Negruz]

The platforms were attacked by aircraft...
Is there anything else you would like to report?

[Osipov9391]

So what kind of aircraft were they attacked by?
Whose, what types of aircraft, what means of destruction?
After all, aviation in our case is a loose concept.
They fly in the sky from Ukrainian Bayraktars to American F-35s.

[Negruz]

Su-25 or something else ...
If you have something to say on the topic - feel free to say, do not be shy ...

[U_GOREC]

Quote: Osipov9391

Secondly, NATO fighters, with the support of AWACS, fly around the island at home.

And what do they fly there? Are you saying that NATO fighters will shoot down our planes?

[Osipov9391]

This is how AWACS sees the sky and the sea hundreds of kilometers around. The data is leaked to the Ukrainian headquarters.
And NATO fighters could easily strike at the island from the territory of Romania or Ukraine.
Without consequences and threats for themselves.

[U_GOREC]

Data they so and so merged and will merge. But what would NATO fighters strike at Russian troops. Are you serious?

[Osipov9391]

If a Harpoon missile, launched from a NATO fighter over Romanian territory, at a range of 280 km, passes into the airspace of the Odessa region and leaves it hitting the Serpentine or some Russian ship, then who will figure it out there?
Nobody! The Ukrainians launched and that's it. And there is no evidence, no facts.
We don't even know where a couple of rockets came from via "Moscow".

[U_GOREC]

Quote: Osipov9391

Nobody! The Ukrainians launched and that's it. And there is no evidence, no facts.
We don't even know where a couple of rockets came from via "Moscow".

We don't even know if they were missiles...

[saigon]

Excuse me, but from which side is this island the key to Odessa?
You can’t even stick a regiment there, but what the hell was the fuss about?
It was not the deliveries of anti-ship missiles and not long-range systems that were to blame for leaving the island, there was no great sense in keeping it and it was not worth it to climb there.

[bayard]

The point was the need to place on-duty radar stations there for radar control of the airspace over the water area and the western part of the Odessa region. Before, radar control was carried out by the cruiser "Moskva" (it had no other target), then they decided to deploy a radar station on Zmein (at least you can’t sink it, and it’s possible to deploy air defense systems for cover. But apart from missiles and MLRS, artillery shells also flew ... and anti-ship missiles they have the ability to aim at a radiation source (radar) in a passive mode ... Therefore, they removed the garrison from the island - for the sake of one radar control, it is irrational to bear such losses.

[BastaKarapuzik And]

Ukraine's prospects for keeping the island are illusory.
As soon as some kind of weapon systems are drawn there, they will arrive.

[aglet]

"It's a shame to give the key to Odessa."
what the hell is the key? it’s 70 km to odessa, you can’t place more than a platoon of soldiers on the island, they won’t fit, it wasn’t worth taking, the dill guards were sitting there and let them sit there further. There is no sense in the snake, and there was no

[meandr51]

This is no key. This hill of land has only political significance for ukrov. Well, let them enjoy their flag there.
And Odessa, in fact, is located on the mainland. If necessary, they will take dry land. Not yet. The operation must take a long time. If Ukraine is taken too quickly, then the Americans will create another hot spot - Transnistria, the Baltic states or the Kuriles. We must create the illusion that Russia is losing the war.

[ABC-schutze]

And what about "there" with the aforementioned Gostomel?.. Especially, - in the "last" days?..

By the way, what is there, with the "logical" chain linking Russia's political decision to leave Serpent's Island, with the hypothetical (let's keep silent about the real one...) "possibility" of the Kyiv public appearing on it?..

[meandr51]

Let them at least set up a rest home there. We are not sorry. The island has no military significance.

[Skif]

Kharkov, Kyiv, Lvov. Fenders.

[Grits]

Quote: kakvastam

Worst news in recent days. Gostomel, Serpentine - what's next?

Normal and correct decision. to be on this unnecessary piece of land under constant shelling without a clear goal is stupidity. Only one is disgusting. From the fact that we are again mumbling about some gestures of goodwill. I would say honestly - it makes no sense to be there from a military point of view. Without any humanitarian vomit

[-Paul-]

About "not needed" you are in vain.

[aglet]

"About" not needed "it's you in vain"
give at least 3 reasons why he is "needed"

[U_GOREC]

Quote: Gritsa

Quote: kakvastam

Worst news in recent days. Gostomel, Serpentine - what's next?

Normal and correct decision. to be on this unnecessary piece of land under constant shelling without a clear goal is stupidity. Only one is disgusting. From the fact that we are again mumbling about some gestures of goodwill. I would say honestly - it makes no sense to be there from a military point of view. Without any humanitarian vomit

Well, yes, h.o.h.l.s also overcome retreating

[Sergey Kuzmin]

Only one is disgusting. From the fact that we are again mumbling about some gestures of goodwill. I would say honestly - it makes no sense to be there from a military point of view. Without any humanitarian vomit

A plus!!! "good will" is vomit, but not humanitarian, but debility.

[aglet]

"A normal and correct decision. To be on this unnecessary piece of land under constant shelling without a clear goal is stupidity"
and what did they think about when they occupied and held him? or didn't you think?

[meandr51]

Correctly. Retreat is not a defeat, but a maneuver.

[Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy]

A little earlier, they announced that Gazprom did not pay dividends ...

[Sergey Kuzmin]

A little earlier, they announced that Gazprom did not pay dividends.

...))) all the people of Russia are in a trance from such a message ...))) you might think we live on these dividends ...

[Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy]

It's not about them, it's about trust.

[Alexandr2637]

Donbass.... (dark humor) Ugh ugh ugh...
News like this makes me cringe..

[Evgeny Ivanov_5]

Well, if you take the latest statements of the GDP - everything that is abroad of the LDNR.

[Vladimir Postnikov]

Strange war with strange gestures of good will.

[Snail N9]

Hmm ... I think there is nothing to comment on here. Goodwill gesture, huh...

[Sergey Kuzmin]

Hmm ... I think there is nothing to comment on here. "Gesture of good will", yeah ..

obscenely, obscenely, obscenely ... even here, putopropaganda can only be confused ... when will professionals, and not sycophants, be called to the information war?!

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Vladimir Postnikov

Strange war with strange gestures of good will.

These are not gestures of goodwill. This is weakness and defeatism.
Something suggests that this "goodwill gesture" will backfire on us...

[Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy]

Already buzzing...

[impostor]

These are not gestures of goodwill. It's weakness and defeat

Unfortunately, this is not a gesture of goodwill, the impudent people outplayed us this time, it is impossible to intercept a long-range artillery shot like a bullet - they tried mattresses without significant success. It remains to wait for the return to the island of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and hammer them there with hypersound

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: impostor

It remains to wait for the return to the island of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and hammer them there with hypersound

You can simply erase this island, thus justifying its abandonment ...

[aglet]

"it is impossible to intercept a shot of long-range artillery like a bullet"
is it also impossible to destroy this "long-range artillery"? destroyer dulled? Or was it never there?

[impostor]

Well, if NATO will supply us with intelligence. real-time data - that’s for sure, but it’s unlikely, and they exchanged their satellite constellation for yachts the size of a battleship

[Repellent]

Quote: aglet

is it also impossible to destroy this "long-range artillery"?

We have: ACS Caesar, 155 mm. Deployment time 60 seconds, collapse 40 seconds. Fires his 3 shots in 18 seconds, then changes position. Then three more shots, and again a change of position, and so on six times. Destroy

[aglet]

"We have: ACS Caesar, 155 mm"
so what? prodigy? invincible weapon? take nothing? there are some zoos, there is aerial reconnaissance of basing sites, there is a DRG, there is front-line reconnaissance, there is an air force. yes there is a lot. there is only the desire to work and the ability to do it.
and we learned very well to give excuses

[Repellent]

Quote: aglet

and we learned very well to give excuses

Yes, it's noticeable to you. I offered you a specific problem, and received in response ... hysteria. Maybe you are a woman? Is it somewhere deep in your soul? confess

[aglet]

"I offered you a specific problem, and received in response ... a tantrum. Maybe you are a woman? Is it somewhere deep in your soul?"
you, venerable, didn’t propose a task, but listed a piece of performance characteristics, to which I gave you an answer, with what and how all this, regardless of the name, is destroyed. and why are you puzzling me, I’m not subordinate to you, and I’m not obliged to solve such tasks, not a gunner, you know, there are people with big stars, so puzzle them, let them fulfill their direct duties. and as for the woman, it seems like a question according to Freud, and hysteria is more inherent in you, judging by your comments.

[Repellent]

Quote: aglet

"it is impossible to intercept a shot of long-range artillery like a bullet"
is it also impossible to destroy this "long-range artillery"? destroyer dulled? Or was it never there?

Quote: aglet

hysteria is more inherent in you, judging by your comments

Hysteria was originally, see above. At the same time, you personally cannot offer anything, you can only shout loudly and resentfully. Which causes an association with either a wet baby or an offended woman.

Choose for yourself what is closer to you, you are not interesting to me from now on.

[aglet]

"At the same time, you personally cannot offer anything, you can only shout loudly and resentfully"
I don't care what you think of me, the main thing is what I think of you. I remember your hysterical cries, when you were still working as a virologist, drowning for quarantine and vaccinations, then I still thought if it was a woman, she was screaming very hysterically and without evidence. and here a new specialization is a military specialist, now you will scream about prodigies of 155mm caliber. shout, for God's sake, I'm not interested in you for a long time, your judgments are at the level of the 2nd grade, as well as about viruses

[Repellent]

Quote: aglet

I remember your hysterical cries when you were still working as a virologist, drowning for quarantine and vaccination

YYYY

You have a false memory, my friend. Or is it just a light morning hangover?

[aglet]

"You have a false memory, buddy"
firstly, I'm not your friend, secondly, a drunken one will oversleep, a fool - never, thirdly, tired of it. fourthly, I don’t want to feed the troll, because with my help you earn your 20 comments a day.

[Repellent]

Quote: Repellent

You have a false memory, my friend. Or is it just a light morning hangover?

Quote: aglet

a drunk will oversleep, a fool - never

That is, after all, a hangover ... well, what can I say? Get well

[arkadiyssk]

And how do you counter-battery destroy it? If the projectile flies 20-30 km, about the same 40 seconds. Until you detect, while you shoot back and until your shells fly to her for the same 40 seconds. As a result, you will shoot back at the place where she has been gone for 3-5 minutes. Apparently, they are caught in return by those who are too lazy to quickly change their position, or towed howitzers that are folded for a long time. Or pre-detect by a drone even at the stage of advancing an position.

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: ROSS 42

These are not gestures of goodwill. This is weakness and defeatism.
Something suggests that this "goodwill gesture" will backfire on us...

The withdrawal of the grouping of troops from East Germany was an example of a "goodwill gesture."
It will backfire and it will backfire.

[meandr51]

Well, of course, Serpentine and GSVG in the GDR are phenomena of the same order.

[werwolf1981]

Yeah, to say the least, these are gestures of spitting in the direction of the boys and the fallen and the living !!

[impostor]

This is just to avoid inevitable losses, an artillery shell and a bullet are not intercepted, and there is nowhere to disperse on the island, the foothold is limited, long-range artillery from Western friends, alas ...

[meandr51]

There are hundreds of such "spitting" in any war. "Principled" perish and lose. Smart and enterprising - live and win.

[U_GOREC]

Quote: Vladimir Postnikov

Strange war with strange gestures of good will.

This is not a war. And not a special operation. It's a form of competition in business...

[meandr51]

Tell us about the right war.

[Alexey Nikolaevich_2]

something like leaving the north of Ukraine ((((

[Geosun]

How? A desire to avoid senseless sacrifice? So it is reasonable not to go in line at enemy machine guns, but to move forward in dashes, hiding behind the folds of the terrain. Where the resistance is strong, go around and exhaust, and where it is weak, press there. If long-range guns from the mainland reach the island, what's the point of keeping people there, since there is nothing to cover. It is necessary to react quickly to a change in tactics and look for other options.

[werwolf1981]

Destroy bridges and supply routes for these weapons, but only weakly bald old with thieves' friends

[Evgeny Ivanov_5]

Well, yes, even from half a year and such changes in tactics will go, that only show "good will." To our very borders, we will show goodwill. Yes, and denyushek ukram humanitarianly unfasten.

[meandr51]

Dream, dream ...

[Chronos]

Quote: Alexey Nikolaevich_2

something like leaving the north of Ukraine ((((

Namely, a stupid attempt to pass off a forced military decision as a gesture of good will.

[meandr51]

On the contrary, it is very smart. Just for the media.

[tralflot1832]

Now the saboteurs will fly in, the victory is victorious. Well, let them defend now. We defended for 4 months.

[cmax]

Quote: tralflot1832

Now the saboteurs will fly in, the victory is victorious. Well, let them defend now. We defended for 4 months.

What are you happy about. The Ministry of Defense settled down ... elk. Aviation does not fly over the country,
they will shoot down, the ships do not go - they will sink. Artillery near Odessa cannot be suppressed. And this is a war with the country, and if only with Nata. It is terrible to imagine seeing now this helplessness of our leadership. One Wagner is pressing something. Hooray! A disgrace, not the Ministry of Defense with his explanation of the reason for leaving the island. People and ships were lost near the island. Sometimes it is better to remain silent, it would look more solid.

[saigon]

For especially tearing the heart muscle about shame and so on.
We are freeing, once again freeing our land. Therefore, everything in a row does not interfere with the land (maybe stupid but)

[aglet]

"We free, once again free our land"
and the snake is not our land, so we hand it over to the enemy

[Evgeny Ivanov_5]

And Sladkov recently wrote about this. It is even scary to imagine the humanism of our leadership in the event of a military clash with an enemy who has all the complexes of a modern army. We will be humanitarian to Vladivostok. Again, as separate consolidated battalion groups, separate planes are fighting in the Chechen. Some separate ships without the cover of heterogeneous forces. As I understand it, the concept of KUG has already been forgotten by commanders? They are not even able to implement the cover of the platforms. We are engaged in responding to enemy strikes. As I understand it, at one time they planned to carry out a landing on the coast with some landing ships? No cover? How is it in Berdyansk?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Evgeny Ivanov_5

Some separate ships without the cover of heterogeneous forces. As I understand it, the concept of KUG has already been forgotten by commanders?

So the Black Sea Fleet has no forces at the KUG. The entire real strength of the fleet is three FR pr. 11356 and 6 submarines pr. 636.3.
And that's it. TFR pr.1135 and 1135M were outdated back in the days of the USSR. MRK and RKA, due to their lack of air defense, themselves need cover. Patrolmen ... there are no censorship words here.
The only strength of the fleet is aviation. But admirals traditionally do not like it and do not know how to use it. Although the Black Sea Fleet even has a pair of Ka-31s.

[Osipov9391]

I don’t know much about Wagner, but I think how all private traders (I know successful in terms of production) hire the best and most experienced.
Do not breed corruption, nepotism, nepotism.
They don’t steal from public procurement and tenders because you can’t steal from yourself.
This is only the positive side.

Would they have helicopters, attack aircraft and experienced pilots?
I don’t think that they would have been driven to slaughter under air defense.
Used carefully, saving people and equipment.

[meandr51]

Well, yes, everything is gone, Ukraine is advancing!

[ABC-schutze]

The passage to the Odessa water area, the Russian Armed Forces, and without this island will be effectively controlled. Any...

As for the hypotheses about some kind of "return" to the DESCRIPTION island of the Kyiv public, in the event of such attempts, this island will simply be destroyed. Purely physically...

Without any chance of "evacuation" of hypothetical "defenders". Something like that....

[Letun]

Quote: ABC-schütze

As for the hypotheses about some kind of "return" to the DESCRIPTION island of the Kyiv public, in the event of such attempts, this island will simply be destroyed. Purely physically...

Without any chance of "evacuation" of hypothetical "defenders". Something like that....

Yes Yes. Already heard. One has only to raise an eyebrow in Russia!

[ABC-schutze]

If you have already "heard this", I envy your hearing ...

I, for example, ANYWHERE and NEVER, from the OFFICIAL representatives of the Russian authorities, "this" is not heard.

That is, I don’t remember ANY case that, in the context of the capabilities and readiness of Russia and its Armed Forces to parry military threats, the President was engaged in some kind of bluff ...


And how his words "understand - do not understand" in all sorts of "audiences". These are their problems.

As for the "prospects" of the Serpentine, in the context of the possibility of a hypothetical "victorious return" of the Kyiv public there, I do not see ANY technical difficulties at all in Russia's implementation of the decision to level it "with the surface of the water." When such a decision is made. And, to compare VERY quickly ...

[U_GOREC]

Quote: ABC-schütze

And if now, during the NATO summit, Ukraine shows "good will" and "returns" the island to Romania... And the NATO garrison will land there... Are you sure that we will bomb it?

And if now, during the NATO summit, Ukraine shows "good will" and "returns" the island to Romania... And the NATO garrison will land there... Are you sure that we will bomb it?

[Snail N9]

You were told, "everything was fine with us, on Zmeiny" and the fact that they left him was a "gesture of good will." What is not clear, then? Vaughn, and Strelkov-Girkin says that in the event of a rollback to the borders, they will also announce that we have defeated everyone and this is just a "gesture of goodwill", well, in order to avoid unnecessary casualties and destruction, and what is most interesting, the majority is happy to eat it up and in all the media they will begin to extol the philanthropy and military genius of certain individuals ...

[ABC-schutze]

Strelkov is a private person and has the right to "say" anything. But he, on the territory of the former united Ukraine, with all due respect to him, was the last time he was? .. About 8 years ago? ..

We considered the option of a landing operation in the direction of Odessa, the capture of Zmenin was NECESSARY.

They changed priorities and operational plans, "postponing" the deadlines and changing the methods of blocking the Odessa coast for ANY access to it by the NATO public and the timing of mastering Odessa itself, what should the Russian contingent do on the Serpentine contingent? .. For now, "work as a target"? ..

[aglet]

"We considered the option of a landing operation in the direction of Odessa, the capture of Zmenin was NECESSARY."
can you explain why?

[ABC-schutze]

For what?..

Yes, so that the enemy could not use this "clearing" to accommodate the potential of (any) opposition to the planned landing operation. This time. The answer is from "general", so to speak, considerations ...

Secondly ... I, like you, do not have even the MINIMUM-sufficient information at the time the leadership was considering the possibility and expediency of conducting a landing operation ... For this, a CONCRETE answer to the question "why"? .. I can not give. As well as I will not begin to enter into "general" discussions on this subject. Namely, - because of the ABSENCE of me and ALL participants in this thread of the VO forum, the MINIMUM-necessary for the productive maintenance of such information. It would be a simple "shaking" of the air ...

[aglet]

"Behind this, a SPECIFIC answer to the question "why"? .. I can not give."
there can be only one specific answer - Schaub Bulo. There are no more reasons and never have been. but the Ukrainians were caught on this bare hook, specifically, how many senseless losses, both people and equipment, and no one needed the island, and now it is not needed

[alexey sidykin]

Quote: Snail N9

Strelkov-Girkin says

What about Girkin? Is he a genius of military thought, a new Alexander of Macedon with Suvorov rolled into one? Just another loser who thinks he's Napoleon.

[ABC-schutze]

Excuse me, under my "nickname" whose quote did you place? .. It seems from excessive excitement. This time...

As for the INEVITABLE CONSEQUENCES of all sorts of hypothetical "appearances of NATO" on the territory of the former united Ukraine, the president, who is also the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, ALREADY EVERYTHING CLEAR and OFFICIALLY announced already ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE NOR.

Do you have any doubts that for "any" NATO members, in this case, these consequences will be fatal? ...

What kind of "NATO - Romania" is there? .. Yes, even Kyiv, even Kyiv clowns, will be "gifted" to Uncle Sam "himself" ...

[meandr51]

If there is military expediency, then the island will be destroyed in the same way as the American base in Ochakovo and American instructors at the Yavorsky training ground. Why is the island better? There is so much talk about him that it is already disgusting to listen to this nonsense. It has no military significance. Only economic. But that's later...

[AAK]

... a quote from the classics - "I am tormented by vague doubts ..."

[Osha]

and who will appreciate this "goodwill gesture"??!!!

[meandr51]

"World community" and the UN.

[ioan-e]

In short, a classic situation - it never happened, and now it has begun again! That's right, they drowned Moscow, then a tugboat, how many boys were killed, and the result is a gesture of goodwill! So, damn it, we’ll get to the new Khasavyurt! Disgrace!
PS The government draw conclusions, because this pandemic leaked the entire Crimean consensus in society, are you following the same path again? Again, the party of vkhozhdentsy and agreers took the upper hand in the undercover Kremlin fuss? Your division, how can you repeat the mistakes of Peter III (then they gave away Berlin to Friedrich der Grosse, for which the blood of Russian soldiers was paid) and the same here!

[Blade3]

How did Khasavyurt end?
Do you see the fighters of Akhmat fighting shoulder to shoulder with the fighters of the RF Armed Forces? Don't connect at all?

The President and the President have no right to think along the lines of “fighting housewives”, and see the processes many steps ahead.

[Scarecrow]

Khasavyurt ended with the 2nd Chechen war, I keep you informed ...
So that we don’t get another war in a couple of years, we need to win this one ...

And in general - a shame!!!
you give false hopes to warriors in the sun ...

[ioan-e]

Quote from blade3

How did Khasavyurt end?

Khasavyurt ended with the invasion of Dagestan in 1999!

Quote from blade3

The President and the President have no right to think along the lines of “fighting housewives”, and see the processes many steps ahead. hi

The president should have a better team so as not to come up with such miserable formulations as a "goodwill gesture"!

PS There is no need to keep people for fools, so people's trust is collapsing! Russian peasant is ready to shed blood knowing that it is not in vain! And when they wiped their feet with such a wording about the dead and missing, I personally have many questions for the president’s entourage! And I'm sure it's not just me!

[Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy]

Me too !

[Spasatel]

Why only around?

[cmax]

Quote from blade3

How did Khasavyurt end?
Do you see the fighters of Akhmat fighting shoulder to shoulder with the fighters of the RF Armed Forces? Don't connect at all?

The President and the President have no right to think along the lines of “fighting housewives”, and see the processes many steps ahead.

The sky should be blue, the economy should be economical, the water should be wet. Not tired of banality to write something. It was necessary to think until 24.02. then we must act and not look the world community in the mouth. I just imagine how such an explanation would look like for mattresses. We withdrew troops from Afghanistan out of good will and so on and so forth.

[Blade3]

Think narrowly and primitively. I recommend subscribing to Khodakovsky's channel. Very cool cools the hot heads of fighting housewives

[cmax]

Quote from blade3

Think narrowly and primitively. I recommend subscribing to Khodakovsky's channel. Very cool cools the hot heads of fighting housewives

But you think broadly. One person, a thinking person, mind you, wrote in the comments to the news:
***? To whom do we want to demonstrate something? Gutierresh? Borrell? Zelensky or Biden? Yesterday there was an article about how the general accomplished a feat by bringing an air defense system to this island, and today please take it. Will we withdraw troops tomorrow and return to the borders on February 24? And what, so too, you can also demonstrate goodwill. Why are our people dying? for gestures of goodwill?
Triumph of insanity.............
- have something to object to what was written !!!

[Ross xnumx]

Quote from blade3

The President is for that and the President that he does not have the right to think in line with ,, fighting housewives ,,

Listen, dear ... What thoughts did President Medvedev have when he gave Norway 175 square meters. km of maritime space?
Remember, the president is chosen to govern the country in intelligible aspects. And now tell us how the sly island will help denazification and demilitarization? Or have our tasks changed? NATO has made a decision and calls Russia an enemy, the EU has introduced six suitcases of sanctions, and we, in order not to upset our partners and express our good will, put the hell on the victims of l / s when taking and holding, we are freeing the bridgehead ...
Feels like a tight hug Russian oligarchs...
In the morning I smear a sandwich -
Immediately thought: how people they?
I can't think otherwise
At least bend me into an arc.

[meandr51]

Not tired of driving a blizzard?

[Nubia2]

Shameful.

[gurzuf]

In order not to be dishonored, did you try to go to the military registration and enlistment office? Or provide material help to the guys?

[Maxim G]

Have you gone or are you helping?

[gurzuf]

Exactly! And I provide assistance and was in the militia at one time. And I believe Commander-in-Chief Vladimir Putin.

[Maxim G]

Through whom help and in what militia?

[gurzuf]

Through the regiment of the Crimean militia. Or does it not count?

[Maxim G]

Interesting, because I also sent humanitarian aid - I handed it over to the Central Department Store in Tyumen, sent money through Lysenko (Montyan recommends it on his channel), Skripnik (Prapor militia), and through Svetlana Olshevskaya.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: gurzuf

Or provide material help to the guys?

are you a rich pinocchio? Well, a couple of millions came out to help.

[gurzuf]

Eco You my friend led from anger-rich! There are no millions, but from my pension I can and for myself I am obliged to help.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: gurzuf

There are no millions

I don't have millions either. Let Prilepin help. Duck, he also escaped from the Donbass.





д

[alexey sidykin]

Quote: mordvin xnumx

Quote: gurzuf

There are no millions

I don't have millions either. Let Prilepin help. Duck, he also escaped from the Donbass.





д

Eck you skewed ...

[Andrey VOV]

Who is a disgrace? Those who came up with a gesture of goodwill or that microscope, what is our garrison?

[ioan-e]

Quote: Andrey VOV

Who is a disgrace? Those who came up with a gesture of goodwill or that microscope, what is our garrison?

About wording! They could have said so - in connection with the impossibility of holding the island due to the intensifying artillery and rocket attacks, in order to save the lives of our military personnel! And so - sheer hypocrisy!

[Andrey VOV]

I agree .. individuals who come up with formulations are utter idiocy, but Konashenkov, well, just a talking head, he himself does not write texts

[ioan-e]

Quote: Andrey VOV

I agree .. individuals who come up with formulations are utter idiocy, but Konashenkov, well, just a talking head, he himself does not write texts

My question arises, who discredits Peskov or Konashenkov more than GDP? I feel Konashenkov confidently coming forward!

[Andrey VOV]

Konashenkov is a talking head .. But Peskov, Medynsky .. must be removed. Peskov, in general, in my opinion, is interested in how much he lost his wife’s real estate and money .. skvalyga .. laughed at Psaki, and they themselves have a damn clown.

[alexey sidykin]

Quote: ioan-e

About

And what would it change? Everyone whining and spitting with anger would have whined and spat in the same way ...

[Alexander I]

Landing from the sea to Odessa was recognized as too costly, and this island was constantly gouged. So why suffer losses there, so it’s right that they left the island.

[km-21]

Kyiv will surely celebrate the victory today. And we have another bewilderment - what were we fighting for?
Although, now nothing will prevent Russia from periodically mixing the garrison of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on this island with the ground.

[t-12]

Yes, there will be no garrison there. They will hang out the flag, shoot the victory video and go back.

[DominickS]

Why wouldn't it hurt? Chubs will bring harpoons, exosets and German air defense systems there, together with MLRS, and neither our aviation nor our fleet will dare to meddle there.

[Woodman]

Quote: DominickS

they will drag harpoons, exosets and German air defense systems there, along with MLRS, and neither our aviation nor our fleet will dare to meddle there.

"Drag" - they will be calibrated. You look at this island - there is no room for maneuver, no shelters. I don't think "chubs", as you put it, are that... not smart.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Lesovik

"Drag" - they will be calibrated.

The topic of the demonstrative destruction of the island (advice of the late VVZh) of nuclear weapons in the form of an Iskander was not disclosed ... But it would be necessary to show how “nothing” can be made from “what”.

[Woodman]

Quote: ROSS 42

The theme of the demonstrative destruction of the island (advice of the late TRP) nuclear weapons in the form

So you want to "gasp"? And "more than once"? So that "the whole world is in dust"?

[AAK]

not Bandera will sit there, but sponsors from NATO, and who will give the command to shoot there? Here they famously give commands only to leave, there are much fewer thoughts about thinking about how to return, and there is no question of political will ...

[Woodman]

Quote: AAK

not Bandera will sit there, but sponsors from NATO

They won't sit down. The gut is thin.

[AAK]

I would also like to be wrong, but sad experience suggests proceeding from the worst

[value]

Calibrating a rocky island is too expensive. Moreover, there are a lot of krastra caves that calibers will not reach.

[Woodman]

Quote from Valio

Moreover, there are a lot of krastra caves,

There are only assumptions about the presence of karst caves on Serpentine, but no one has seen them.

[km-21]

Quote: Lesovik

There are only assumptions about the presence of karst caves on Serpentine, but no one has seen them.

From the point of view of karst studies and speleology, there can be no natural karst cavities on Zmeiny Island. For their formation, karst rocks (limestones, gypsum) and a significant amount of water flowing through the rock (either groundwater or glacial), as well as a height difference for the formation of water flows, are needed. There is nothing like it on this flat piece of land. Therefore, the caves there can only be artificial with a depth of no more than the height of the island above sea level.

[Woodman]

Quote: km-21

From the point of view

Thanks for the clarification. It was even interesting. But your comment would be more appropriate to address Valio (Valio) After all, these are his words

Quote from Valio

it's full of craster caves that calibers can't reach

[Osipov9391]

What for ? In the Odessa region, this is all deployed and works well based on the data provided by the AWACS of the German Air Force and the R-8 "Poseidon" of the US Navy.
And simply put Himars can demolish our grouping on the island from the Odessa region even.

[aglet]

"Why wouldn't it hurt? Chubs will bring harpoons, exosets and German air defense systems there, along with MLRS"
all this will need to be laid in three layers, on this tiny island

[meandr51]

Well, yes, and all on 4 hectares ... Yes, this is just a gift for Iskander!

[Sergio]

Well, they gave the Nezalezhniks another victory. Bitter and embarrassing. Why so many dead people, cars and ships? I do not understand

[meandr51]

These are military actions. There were losses on both sides. There, several dozen aircraft were shot down and their boat was sunk. In war, they don’t get offended and cry, but they fight and make timely maneuvers.

[BIABIA]

RF, as a gesture of goodwill, gave Moscow. When to expect this idiotic term?

[meandr51]

If necessary, Moscow will be given back. And Washington will take. You unfold the sofa and go to bed. The morning is wiser than the evening...

[Tired]

That is, at first they lost the cruiser that this island took, and now the troops have also withdrawn "for the sake of a goodwill gesture." Against the backdrop of the president's statements that the goal of the entire operation "Protection of Donbass", this is already beginning to strain. Swing on the ruble ...

[Yves762]

Everything is according to plan (cunning, as in the beginning) apparently ...

[AvesevA]

Tell me, sir. And why sit on this small island under constant artillery fire? Why waste resources and time on it? Recently destroyed the last Ukrainian ships. In order not to give the opportunity to import weapons by sea, it is enough to scare with a pod. And keep the island itself on fire, in order to prevent the enemy from settling there

[Yves762]

Shelf.
Delimitation and demarcation of future borders (especially if Odessa is not taken, and that smacks of it).

Ps (by the way)

Quote from Avesev

And why sit on this small island under constant artillery fire? ..... And keep the island itself on fire, in order to prevent the enemy from settling there

- ask the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, who tried to TAKE IT, SET UP, and SIT "under constant artillery fire".
And ischo, you other countries ships undercarriage () will you joke there ???

[Tiksi-3]

Quote from Avesev

waste resources and time

people are resources for you???

[hekius]

I don't like the whole thing, it doesn't look like an "everything goes according to plan" operation.

[Ruby]

Ours came out. But it’s not a fact that Khokhols will be allowed to go there, much less to strengthen themselves. There is really no point in holding on to this rock. It is impossible to place serious weapons there, nor to fortify.

[donavi49]

Military equipment was burned before leaving. Just the other day there was a note about how heroically air defense was brought up:

In early May, the enemy hit and destroyed our Tor-M air defense system and, having air superiority, attempted an assault by landing. The personnel of the Black Sea Fleet repelled all attacks.

The landing craft DK-701 was sent to the island to deliver the Tor-M2 air defense system. However, on approach, the landing craft was destroyed by the enemy.

The commander of the fleet set the task of forming a detachment of ships to deliver air defense systems to the island by landing craft. For this, loading on the high seas onto landing craft was planned using a self-propelled floating crane "SPK-54150" of the "Shell" air defense missile system. However, most of the civilian crew of the ship refused to go to sea due to the lack of social guarantees, there was not a single crane operator.

Deputy Fleet Commander according to MTO, Major General Mikhail Yasnikov personally arrived at the residence of one of the crane operators and convinced him of the vital need to complete this task. First by helicopter and then by boat, they arrived together on a floating crane.

However, due to the large mass of the zrpk, the landing craft rolled. Major General Yasnikov decided to secure the sides of the boat with crane slings. The threat of capsizing has been removed.

To deliver the "Pantsir", other military equipment and material means of technical support to Zmeiny, there was only one option left - go on the crane. 9 out of 12 civilian crew members refused due to lack of social guarantees, including the only crane operator. Major General Yasnikov was trained to work on a crane installation within an hourtook full responsibility for it.

On the way to Snake Island the ship was covered with the use of anti-aircraft missile systems deployed on support vessels, with a real missile impact, such a system was used for the first time.

During the unloading, the enemy attacked the island with Tochka-U, fortunately the missile hit a section of the island far from the unloading point and no one was hurt. After 20 minutes, the anti-aircraft missile-gun complex was unloaded onto the pier personally by Major General Yasnikov.

Further, a landing craft with the Tor-M2 air defense system moored to the port side of the crane, which covered the approach of the floating crane. Major General Yasnikov proceeded to unload the Tor-M2 air defense system ashore.

The determination and courage of Mikhail Yasnikov to take full responsibility, to lead people behind him, the courage and heroism of all the crew members and the boatswain's crew made it possible to save all the servicemen who guard the Zmeiny Island. We need control over this island, it is a strategically important object, so let's thank our heroes from the bottom of our hearts.


If anything, the events of this transfer the beginning of June. Judging by the pictures, Maksar destroyed 2 Thors and 3-4 Shells before leaving. Iron-iron, but these are tangible losses.


It is not necessary for Khokhls to occupy it by the way, but they will land for reporting and photo-video for sure.

[navigator777]

And the whole problem is that we have a toothless and weak fleet without normal air defense

[DenVB]

Quote: donavi49

However, most of the civilian crew of the vessel refused to go to sea due to the lack of social guarantees, there was not a single crane operator.

Quite rightly, they refused. The habit of the Ministry of Defense to throw people in case of death or injury has long been known. "Which participants? What kind of hostilities? Get the hell out of here, you're not entitled to any payments."

[ada]

Quote: DenVB

Quote: donavi49

However, most of the civilian crew of the vessel refused to go to sea due to the lack of social guarantees, there was not a single crane operator.

Quite rightly, they refused. The habit of the Ministry of Defense to throw people in case of death or injury has long been known. "Which participants? What kind of hostilities? Get the hell out of here, you're not entitled to any payments."

This is a very serious accusation of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation of non-compliance with Federal Legislation, or you are not saying something.

[cobalt]

Well, yes, this case shows a clear lack of normal landing craft in the fleet and crews trained in this, I hope they will finally draw the proper conclusions, build the necessary ships, and train the crews. It would not hurt to draw organizational conclusions regarding those persons who should have thought about this before and provided the fleet with the necessary ships and vessels.

[AAK]

Well, and about what conclusions, colleague, we have heard since the sinking of the "Moscow" - but we will not hear about any ...

[Spasatel]

Cool!
Account for everyone! This is how you should fight! Boldly regardless!
Lando in the center of the position!
Hooray!!

[AdAstra]

Why did they go there in the first place?
Or they didn’t know that "There really is no point in holding on to this rock. You can neither place serious weapons there, nor fortify yourself."
and then suddenly it dawned on me, so what?

[Ryazan87]

giving the enemy what we have taken, of course, we have an impact on the minds. The question is which one.