The scam is restarted: a new variant of the "patrol ship" 22160 is shown

170

There is not much left to this ugly version of the future

In the newest stories There is no more shameful page in domestic shipbuilding than project 22160. The same 20386 could be criticized at least how much, but, being built, it, apparently, could at least go at high speed. Even this cannot be said about project 22160. It is completely useless. And this is confirmed by the practice of using these ships in the Navy - for the entire lifetime of project 22160, these ships have only flag demonstrations, one tracking of the enemy, which became possible because the enemy did not oppose him, and one radio exchange that got on the Internet the other day. Everything. More than 36 billion rubles were wasted.

At first, when little was known about the project, there were still some hopes that it would come in handy - at least, the placement of containers on it looks more successful than on 20386 (two 40-feet with a helicopter versus one instead of a helicopter on 20386). But details leaked to the media put an end to these hopes even before the flag was raised on the lead ship Vasily Bykov. Today our state is unable to make volitional decisions and stop erroneous undertakings before they go too far. Moreover, the project received huge advertising in the media and even has its own army of "fans", constantly replenished with people with atrophied abilities for logical thinking and "faulty" goal-setting. So you can safely be sure that the six "patrolmen" will be completed.



But that’s not the problem. The problem is that supporters of the restart of the project and the construction of an additional series of patrol ships with a slightly modified design began to voice. And to be more specific, this miracle ship was crossed with a corvette, having received an unknown animal at the exit, which stands like a corvette, and in terms of combat effectiveness it did not go far from the base "patrolman". And this is really bad - modern economic realities will not allow building both useless and useful ships, you will have to choose. Risk that choice again will be made towards useless ships began to grow, and those who turn all this are deeply indifferent to the fact that we are sliding into war with the West, and the further, the faster.

It's worth dealing with this threat.

Rebirth


The history of this ship was quite easily described in the article “Suitcases without handles. Navy buys a series of useless ships ".

Also of interest is the article by M. Klimov "Modules will not save patrolmen", and it is still optimistically written.

Let us emphasize once again that the former Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, V.V. Chirkov, became the "father" of this squalor. He became interested in modular ships after a trip to the United States, and after work began on the "modular" 22160, he left military service for a warm position at the United Shipbuilding Corporation.

But back to the miracle ship.

With the deduction of the details that are disclosed in the article by reference and clearly demonstrate the unsuitability of the ship for its intended use, another problem has formed on its "horizon". Somali pirates, for the fight against which this miracle was allegedly created, ordered to live long - and in the literal sense. They were simply partly killed, partly “forced into peace” by the mercenaries of Eric Prince, behind whom the United Arab Emirates is standing. Dubai is not only hotels and beaches, it is also the largest transshipment port built into global logistics, and the Arab emirs were very worried about how pirates harmed their business.

The piracy issue is covered in the author's article "On modern pirates and mercenaries", where it is analyzed in detail what became of the Somali pirates and what methods other pirates use. The analysis clearly shows that in other places (in the Gulf of Guinea and the Strait of Malacca), the specificity of piracy is different, and a patrol ship will not solve anything there.

Actually, this is precisely why neither "Vasily Bykov" nor "Dmitry Rogachev" went to the Gulf of Aden for military service - they have nothing to do there, as well as, in principle, anywhere else. Even after Vasily Bykov entered service, a real combat ship, Yaroslav the Wise, went to anti-piracy combat service (and, apparently, not only and not so much).

It seemed that after the delivery of the last one in the 22160 series, it would be possible to forget about the continuation of this shame. But it was not there.

The first bell was a message from one well-informed insider that this project would soon "pop up" again, just in a slightly modified form. To understand the significance of this person's words, you need to refer to the article "The shipbuilding mystery of 2019, or when four equals five" - about an attempt to deceive V. Putin by the Ministry of Defense. This insider is exactly the one who was the first to publicly uncover the scam with the re-mortgaging of "Daring" under a new name - "Mercury". This means that his words should be taken seriously from the very beginning.

And so, the International Maritime Defense Show 2021 (IMDS-2021) has begun. And, lo and behold, that insider turned out to be right - this miracle project surfaced on it again, only now, as claimed, it is a little different.

Technical analysis


So, let's take a look at the new reincarnation of the project.


The hull has remained almost the same, the bow has the same contours. This means that after 22 knots of speed (moreover, "light" - without the "payload" of modules in the stern and ballast to compensate for the "heavy stern" in the bow), the boat will again be hit in the hull, and it will be like a natural limiter. The speed of the ship, obviously, will drop - it is corny heavier, which means that it has more draft (the hull is the same), and the resistance of the water to the movement of the ship is slightly, but higher.

However, the tag on this project says that "everything is fine, wonderful awning" - 27 knots (and this with a significantly increased load, the same body and machines as the really serial 22160 - it hardly gives 22 knots “light”). This "tag", by the way, is a direct forgery and deception of the country's top leadership.

The scam is restarted: a new variant of the "patrol ship" 22160 is shown

On this occasion, it is useful to remember another photo, with “sweet promises” about 27 nodes, and also to the top management. It is also worth paying attention to the difference in displacement in the upper and lower photos - the liars no longer even want to hide, as they are convinced of their complete impunity. In reality, there are about 2000 tons, as on the top plate.


However, this topic can still be discussed, but the fact that a lot of tons "flew" to the bow of the ship is not discussed. The model shows four covers for cruise missiles, which means that the launcher itself is about 7 tons, the four missiles are about 5 tons, plus the metal for the mountings and the foundation of the launcher itself, the total mass of which shipbuilding engineers can better tell. All this cannot but make the ship heavier, mainly its bow. Hopefully, the ballast tanks will be sufficient so that, due to the additional load on the bow, the ship would not receive a constant trim. After all, its seaworthiness will obviously not be better than that of the base 22160 - the ship does not have roll stabilizers, and there is no room for them, and the displacement is greater and the draft is deeper.

Apparently, the ship will be able to shoot fully (but with large restrictions on sea strength) only with 3M14 Caliber cruise missiles, designed to strike the coast, the set of its electronic weapons (including radar fairings on the superstructure) suggests that the anti-ship missile targeting complex there not.

There is really no hydroacoustic complex ("promised" in the model plate) under the keel. That is, not at all. There is a retractable high-frequency GAS "Ariadna" (with characteristics similar to the fish-finding sonars of seiners). In other words, the ship, when performing anti-submarine missions, will have to rely on a towed GAS. The SM-588 missile and torpedo launcher of the Packet-NK complex, visible through the open side airlock, apparently successfully gets along with the “wonderful modular containers” located in the same place.

A Ka-52K helicopter is on the model on the deck of the ship. This helicopter is capable of effectively attacking surface targets or targets on the shore. The problem, however, is that there is no elevator in sight anywhere on the deck. aviation means of destruction (ASP). Without disclosing any details regarding the design of the base project 22160 ship (this is probably a military secret!), Let us say that none of the civilians who visited this ship saw anything there that looked like a cellar for the ASP or a lift for delivering the ASP to the deck. The available photos and videos of the ship also do not say anything about this, and on the published schemes of the ship there is no such cellar at all.

On the model with a helicopter, you also do not see anything similar to a lift for missiles or torpedoes. Then the question arises - how will the Ka-52 fight? He will have nowhere to take ammunition. Perhaps the missiles should be heaped on deck? No, this is not possible, such a decision does not comply with the safety standards adopted by the Navy. Or has someone already (and only for the "innovative-modular wunderwaffe" project 22160) canceled these standards (storage safety of ammunition)?

Anti-submarine missions are also out of the question - an anti-submarine helicopter needs torpedoes or depth charges, which have nowhere to store on the ship. It will also not work effectively to use PLUR from vertical launchers - the towed GAS will not give data for firing them - the accuracy at heading angles other than traverse angles is insufficient.

In general, everything somehow does not fit with this project.

Naturally, the characteristic design features of the base ship will remain - one engine room, which reduces the survivability of the ship to "non-military", two "Kolomna", with which the standard, lighter 22160 with normal load cannot even accelerate to 22 knots. Remains and "naked", uncovered stern.

The air defense missile system "Redut" appeared ... Only in terms of the composition of the REV ("Positive", UKSK, "Packet", "Redut" with radio correction), we come to the cost of the optimal "mobilization version" of the serial corvette 20380, but with a normal GAK, seaworthiness, speed 26 nodes. At the same time, one cannot but say that the Reduta launchers are shown in such a part of the ship that, how to put it mildly, there are doubts that they will "fit" there. Well, or, to call a spade a spade, they will not fit there in height: or it is necessary to remove the engine room somewhere. The doors on the model leading directly to the "launcher" also raise questions.


But the gym will not be there - through the place where 22160 has it, the new ship will have a vertical shaft in which there is a rocket launcher.

By the way, a question for the fan club 22160 - why is he being put "Caliber" in the nose, if he can shoot from container launchers in the stern? Let's not reveal this dirty secret for now, let the boys think a little. And let's look at the risk of this miracle technique appearing in metal.

Risk assessment


At first glance, we are talking about one of the countless models that are shown from time to time at such salons and exhibitions. Most of them never turn into a real ship. In principle, the likelihood that this model will remain a model is quite high. But the opposite is also quite possible.

The reason for this is the specific approach to business, which is shown by the management of Zelenodolsk Plant. Simply put, these people want to make money without bothering. Issues related to the country's defense capability, the meaningfulness of military spending and the positive result of labor for society as a whole are outside the scope of consideration there. You just need to take orders to yourself and master the money, no one thinks about other considerations.

The first project 22160 is a vivid example here - this is just a simple way of earning money, on a simple ship, albeit one designed in the Northern Design Bureau - SPKB. It would take longer to build your corvettes: there are air defense, hydroacoustics, and missile weapon, and here - a trough with a cannon. Simply and easily. Especially if outside lobbyists promise to help with this particular order, and not with others.

This is how Zelenodolsk got into a scam with UDC, which are supposedly being built at the Kerch plant. And this scam can also indirectly bring to life a mutated 22160 with "Packet" and four "Calibers". UDC, for the creation of which industrial cooperation is not ready (from the word "absolutely"), will require from the plant's specialists, and, apparently, the design bureau, huge efforts that will not leave any resources for the same corvettes, in the design of which ZPKB has a reputation of experts. But the crafts from SPKB, the simplest in design and execution, the Zelenodolsk plant will completely master in any conditions and will master the money for their construction.

And this creates the temptation of the leaders of the Zelenodolsk plant to contribute to the continuation of the banquet. And the influence that the management of this enterprise has, quite allows you to plunge into this fornication with your head.

What will this mean for fleet and countries - it's clear. Instead of useful from a military point of view ships or airplanes, tens of billions of rubles will again, once again, be spent on ships that cannot even be assigned a real combat mission, just as it cannot be assigned to the existing ships of Project 22160 - "Vasily Bykov", "Dmitry Rogachev "And" Pavel Derzhavin ". Taking into account economic realities, our country cannot afford it.

These are pseudo-combat ships, only in war they will be assigned tasks as real. With all that it implies.

So now, while there is still no plan to build these ships and this is not the preparation of a state contract, but just a model from the salon, all persons who have at least some influence on the course of events must make every effort to ensure that all this does not go beyond the framework of the models and the shameful epic with the project 22160 did not repeat itself. There are good chances for this.

The current project 22160 was pushed quietly, without noise (by the way, there are very bad questions even about the established competitive procedures), and Chirkov only "lit" it when it was too late to change something. But now the situation is different: everyone is warned, and this should be used.
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  1. +30
    29 June 2021 18: 13
    a new version of the "patrol ship" 22160 is shown

    So he grew up to a full-fledged corvette 20380, although it is inferior to him in everything except the price.
    Here corvettes 20380 rivet at least (although there are quite a few questions on them), and not to deal with patrolmen.
    1. +20
      29 June 2021 18: 23
      What the conversation is about.
      1. -2
        29 June 2021 20: 23
        wink why do you have claims about the patrolman to the shipyards, and not to the subcontractors responsible for the containers themselves? And about "ah, evil shipyards want to make money" .. if you remember that the Navy, in principle, is engaged in a stable practice of "throw and substitute shipyards for any convenient reason", then the shipyard is at least not comme il faut to blame ..
        1. +16
          29 June 2021 22: 09
          And what have the containers to do with it? Will it be useful if there are containers?
          1. -9
            30 June 2021 00: 14
            laughing you will not believe it, but yes, because the project was created specifically for them, put the target load on the patrolmen and they will perform the assigned tasks, otherwise it turns out funny, the containers are not ready, they just started to be tested last year, but the topvar's experts were already overexcited in their stories about the uselessness of the patrolmen ... well, this is a kindergarten ... and on the ship, what is from the article, you do not need to produce entities ... They have been rushing with this project for several years and offer to stake out a series, but it is unlikely, they will rather offer an IPC based on Karakurt do..
            1. +5
              30 June 2021 11: 53
              Why are you lying? The project was originally a PSKR without containers.
              1. -6
                30 June 2021 12: 49
                laughing the current was mentioned everywhere with containers that would allow it to be effectively used .. and now you have decided to forget about them? You either put on your pants or take off the cross .. and then it turns out funny, if this is a patrolman "chasing pirates", then he is ready to perform his tasks and send a cruiser if you don't have to, And if this is a multi-functional ship, then be so kind as to put containers with a target load on it, and not criticize it from scratch ..
                1. +3
                  30 June 2021 13: 22
                  Quote: Barberry25
                  but it turns out funny, if this is a patrolman "chasing pirates", then he is ready to carry out his tasks and send a cruiser if that does not have to

                  But this thesis does not confirm the reality:
                  Even after Vasily Bykov entered service, a real combat ship, Yaroslav the Wise, went to anti-piracy combat service (and, apparently, not only and not so much).
                  1. +1
                    30 June 2021 13: 46
                    laughing the reality is that the Wise was sent on a campaign in April 18th, and Bykov was handed over in December ...
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                2. 419
                  +2
                  30 June 2021 17: 35
                  Quote: Barberry25
                  the current was everywhere mentioned with containers that would allow it to be used efficiently ... and now they sharply decided to forget about them

                  Barberry you lie
                  https://topwar.ru/174150-moduli-patrulniki-ne-spasut.html
              2. +3
                30 June 2021 20: 30
                Why are you lying?

                Well then why? Here is one of the very first photos of the model:


                Here and the air defense system, and 57 mm, and 2 containers and the helicopter runway closer to the center.
                This was later canceled, the 76 mm fluff was installed, and the helicopter runway was moved to the stern.
                1. -1
                  1 July 2021 14: 26
                  But this is far from the initial version - the initial one was the PSKR
              3. -1
                8 July 2021 16: 04
                These ships can carry Caliber missiles. So they said on the Zvezda TV channel, they can't lie there!
                Here is the link https://tvzvezda.ru/news/2021761043-8HgjC.html
            2. 419
              +4
              30 June 2021 17: 33
              fool
              Barberry, you're just a petty lying liar lol
              Quote: Barberry25
              the project was created specifically for them, put the target load on the patrol officers and they will perform the assigned tasks, otherwise it turns out funny, the containers are not ready, they just started to be tested last year, but already the topvar's experts were overexcited in stories about the uselessness of patrolmen ... well, this is for children garden.

              1. It was the "witnesses of the unholy container" (and first of all ZHORINO) who actively lobbied for this scam.
              Specifically Mr. Zhandarov
              [media = https: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = v6xqIx_T0Jo]
              He had a "special relationship" with Chirkov.
              By the way, when Chirkov was "shaken out" of the chair by the GC, before a high-ranking rat lobbied him for a place in the USC, he was "sitting out" at Zhora (he was not taken to any other place)
              2. About the container - quite exhaustive - https://topwar.ru/174150-moduli-patrulniki-ne-spasut.html
              3. Madame barberry YOU "modestly did not notice" the huge shortfall in speed - instead of the promised 27-30 knots of 21-22 knots. Or do YOU ​​have "jet containers" that will "magically fix" this?
              4. And, by the way, what "containers" will be able to correct the frankly full-time seaworthiness of 22160? Huh?
              1. +1
                30 June 2021 23: 18
                Klimov, pereloginsya)
                1. -1
                  1 July 2021 14: 27
                  In essence, don't you want to object to all this?
                  1. -1
                    1 July 2021 15: 57
                    arguing with Klimov, wasting time in vain, he even justifies his straight shoals at close range) I see no reason to waste time on an inadequate argument, which I wanted, I already wrote
          2. +4
            30 June 2021 11: 08
            I am tormented by vague doubts about the UKSK setting at 22160.
            At one time on the Morskoye they considered such a possibility and came to the conclusion that the length would not allow it in any way. request
            1. -2
              30 June 2021 15: 16
              here, if you want, you can do anything, but here it is more likely that the project is meaningless, because there is no niche for it in fact .. soldier although they also have a project of the Vietnamese Cheetah, which would very much fit in
              1. 0
                1 July 2021 15: 45
                here, well, if you wish, you can do anything

                You can't do anything.
                UKSK will stick out of the hull in the water.
                Her length is this (9,5 m). wink
                1. 0
                  1 July 2021 16: 02
                  lol and if up?) although I personally am for a cheetah 3.9. caliber fits on it and you can put it flat and air defense is normal ... and most importantly, it has been worked out and is done with the right motivation for the same 5 years
                  1. +1
                    1 July 2021 16: 38
                    although I personally love the cheetah 3.9.

                    Cheetah is a frigate and 22350 is a frigate, but 22350 is much better at everything.
                    There is enough variety without Cheetah. Trust me. hi
                    1. 0
                      1 July 2021 16: 44
                      laughing yes, you can call it whatever you like ... according to the performance characteristics, it is exactly what a corvette, and already worked out, it is better than dancing around 20380 .. which will be built, And in 10 years they will howl about "we have a weak fleet, the current x-35 are standing" ..
                      1. 0
                        1 July 2021 16: 52
                        You like the pictures, but the Navy needs the characteristics.

                        And in 10 years there will be a howl about "we have a weak fleet, the current x-35 is standing" ..

                        With 22350, there will be no such problems.
                      2. 0
                        1 July 2021 17: 08
                        the displacement of a cheetah is 2 ... he is not a frigate, he is a corvette. This is offered for export as a frigate .. Here is one of three, either sign Zendol residents for 200, but I have doubts about how to deliver it along the rivers, or cheetahs. or mpk based on karakurt ..
                      3. +1
                        1 July 2021 17: 11
                        I politely declare to you: 20380/20385 corvettes of the usual project are enough. laughing
                        The Cheetah is not needed by the Russian Navy at all.
                        You have something to do with Zelenodol residents, why do you worry about them? wink
                      4. 0
                        1 July 2021 17: 44
                        crying no, but you can translate 15 rubles) about "what are you worried about?" .. Well, technically, they are one of the few who rent ships in a normal time frame, while others behave in a very peculiar way .. or because the author has a dislike for Do Zelenodol residents need to destroy an entire plant?
                      5. +1
                        1 July 2021 18: 53
                        due to the fact that the author has a dislike for Zelenodol residents need to destroy the whole plant?

                        I have my own disagreements with the author, but I completely agree with him that the ship's personnel should be of proper quality, and the industry should not abuse lobbying opportunities.
                        In short: Zelenodolsk for the Navy, and not vice versa.
                      6. -2
                        1 July 2021 21: 07
                        the problem is that the fleet has proven at the moment that it does not want and is not ready to fulfill its obligations from the word in general ... that is. there is parity in relations, and wishlist "give the fleet super ships for free and yesterday" .. this is another story
                      7. -1
                        1 July 2021 17: 53
                        but in general, you need to deal with the graters of naval and shipyards ... you need:
                        1) it is legal to prohibit sending ships and boats to participate in parades until the flag is raised on them, otherwise we have parades every 3 months in fact ... and count for 3-4 months instead of tests, ships hang at parades.
                        2) targeted loans for engine building and shipyard expansion
                        3) restructuring of shipyard debts
                        4) an increase in the cost of ships under contracts to speed up their production by attracting a larger number of assemblers and welders ..
                      8. +1
                        1 July 2021 18: 53
                        but in general, you need to deal with the graters of naval and shipyards ... you need:

                        Tell me honestly - how old are you? wink
                      9. 0
                        1 July 2021 21: 08
                        enough to understand that they are not friends. One story with Pella suggests that half of the Navy should be brought to justice
          3. 0
            3 September 2021 19: 18
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Will it be useful if there are containers?

            07.03.2019 (09: 52)
            The patrol ship of the Black Sea Fleet "Vasily Bykov" has successfully completed the delivery of a special course problem
            The crew of the patrol ship "Vasily Bykov" of the Novorossiysk Naval Base (VMB) of the Black Sea Fleet (Black Sea Fleet) has successfully completed the second special course task: "Sailing and conducting combat by a single ship."
            In the course of practical actions, the ship's crew performed anti-aircraft and artillery fires at surface and air targets, and also worked out simulated launches of the Kalibr-NK missile system at sea and coastal targets.

            I am interested in your opinion ...?

            https://structure.mil.ru/structure/forces/navy/news/more.htm?id=12220552@egNews
            1. +2
              9 September 2021 00: 39
              A conditional start is not a start. This is when the commander says in words that there was a launch.
              Let the video be shown then and the subject for discussion will arise.
              1. 0
                9 September 2021 00: 41
                Judging by the fact that 2 years have passed, they are not in a hurry to show anything yet ...
    2. +23
      29 June 2021 18: 28
      What can you say? God grant that the publication would have an effect! Thanks to Alexander for her.

      The OVR corvettes were hacked to death, a lot of absurdities have been going on since 2038X, citizen Pospelov here decided to make money on AB (they are needed, but given the "track record" of the author of the idea, there are concerns about the final result, right up to the desire to overstep into the camp of anti-aircraft carriers). How are we going to fight if, God forbid, we have to, nobody cares?
      1. 0
        29 June 2021 18: 53
        If the "stars" are lit, then someone needs it. And it is necessary to discourage denyuzhku for advertising and processing public opinion.
      2. -3
        29 June 2021 20: 26
        laughing stop running around with the mythical "OVR corvettes" that no one has seen in their eyes, they are as real as the Krylov crafts
        1. +8
          29 June 2021 22: 08
          But they were considered as an option for the Navy, and Chirkov himself, personally, announced the cancellation of this project.
          1. 0
            29 June 2021 22: 12
            those. in fact, there was no project, but there was only an idea that had no less problems than the existing ones .. the only difference is that the current projects are being implemented and therefore they have problems, but there is no "OKR corvette", therefore it has already turned into a sacred cow with ideal parameters .. This is reminiscent of the story of the competition for a machine gun in the USSR, when all and sundry of the "experts" are now pouring water on Kalashnikov and tell how good one or another competitor would be that did not go beyond the prototype .. or laudatory the praises of GSH-18 against the background of shouts about "but in zero Yarygin misfired" ...
            1. +4
              30 June 2021 11: 55
              There were the requirements of the Navy, on the basis of which it was possible to draw up the TTZ, there were preliminary projects of several design bureaus, for example, Almaz.

              No need to distort the facts.

              "but in the XNUMXs, Yarygin misfired" ...


              You should give this pistol, then you would not be so ironic
              1. -3
                30 June 2021 12: 51
                oo .. "on the basis of which it would be possible" .. If the grandmother would have a hell, this is already grandfather .. so here too, the corvette OCD is an idea that has not been implemented, so all the screams and moans about "oh such a corvette ", it's a waste of time, so it's not me who distort the facts, but some topvar's experts are trying to pull an owl onto the globe .. about" you wouldn't be so ironic ".. ie. ironic and praise gsh-18, which cannot be farther than an experimental batch due to a heap of sores? just another sacred cow?
                1. +4
                  30 June 2021 13: 32
                  Quote: Barberry25
                  so here too - Corvette OCD is an idea that hasn't been implemented

                  This is an idea that was rejected by the Navy in principle.
                  It's not even a matter of stopping work on the "OVR corvette" - Chirkov refused altogether any new OVR ships and work on them, ordering instead 22160.
                  Glavkomat does not see prospects in the creation of ships, previously designated as "Corvette IAD". One of the main tasks of the OVR is to ensure the protection and defense of the naval forces in the areas of naval bases and in the adjacent territories. This task is now carried out by onshore observation means, stationary hydroacoustic stations and coastal missile-artillery troops, armed with anti-ship missiles of different ranges, as well as anti-submarine and strike aircraft.
                  Rejecting the corvette, the Navy turned to the idea of ​​creating patrol ships - less armed, but with greater autonomy and versatility, capable, including, to go on long hikes. The design of the patrol ship will be handled by the North Design Bureau.

                  And therefore, all the alarming reports about the obsolescence of the IPC and the impossibility of their work on modern submarines crashed against the reinforced concrete "ships in the OVR are not needed, so there is nothing to worry about." And in 2020, when none of the promises of the commander-in-chief was realized, the Navy began hastily to try to "dig up the stewardess" - that is, to modernize the Albatrosses - and look for something from the production projects, from which the OVR ship could be made.
                  1. -2
                    30 June 2021 13: 50
                    and? in fact, the OVR corvette never existed, Except for the idea, but the fact that the shipyards did not cope with the production of corvettes and patrolmen is somewhat different .. I will write what I have already written in other articles - it's not about the idea, but about the execution .. Moreover, the fault of both the Navy and the shipyards, some squeezed money to accelerate production, while others, for the sake of winning under the contract, set a too low price ... the history of the ASZ is an example ... Here it is necessary to force the Navy and shipyards to work together, and not spanks play with great pleasure
                    1. 419
                      +2
                      30 June 2021 17: 42
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      and? in fact, the OVR corvette never existed

                      Barberry you LIE so heart-rendingly because you are "interested"?
                      To Holgino from Leningrad? Very much like that ..
                      Quote: Barberry25
                      but in execution ... and the wine of both the Navy and the shipyards, some squeezed money to accelerate production, while others, for the sake of winning under the contract, put a price too low

                      fool
                      Barberry, you carry nonsense wassat unrelated to reality
                2. 419
                  +2
                  30 June 2021 17: 39
                  Quote: Barberry25
                  Corvette OCD is an idea

                  LIE Barberry
                  work there went much further than the preliminary project
                  Quote: Barberry25
                  so it's not me who distorts the facts, but some topvar's experts are trying to pull an owl onto the globe.

                  no barbariska, you cheating lying girl here you are
          2. 0
            30 June 2021 05: 33
            Alexander, can you tell me what is going on with the construction of the UDC in the "Zaliv". There is a strong impression that this scam is worse than 22160 and 20386 combined ... Are they even being built?
            Until now, there is no sane appearance of these ships, except for general phrases and vague pictures ... as if drawn by a threesome of the PTU. But the money has been allocated.
            And again this is Zelenodolye ...
            And thanks for the material.
            Although a very painful feeling from the realization that some kind of sabbath of brutal kleptomaniacs is going on in the country.
            1. +3
              1 July 2021 14: 29
              So far, even with the project, there are questions. Although some structures have already begun to cut metal
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    3. +4
      29 June 2021 18: 31
      -he left military service for a warm position in the United Shipbuilding Corporation.
      "And they threw the Pike into the river!"
    4. +10
      29 June 2021 18: 35
      22160 is a very slow and more expensive "dove of peace" with each modification, which fiercely spoils not only the fleet, but also the entire defense capability of the country. Unfortunately
      1. -2
        29 June 2021 19: 59
        It's funny in this whole epic only one thing: how they constantly bred the magic word "cheaper", which means that this amount will be "more". Do not care that there will be not a combat unit, but a garbage, but it will look like an extra unit on the next parade on the Neva. Like here it is "mighty fleet"! True from the garbage, but it is the same! Proudly so on a boat ride along it once a year (or 2) and forget. But there is one thing, but all these corvette-patrol games are poured into a lot of money, and if you count with an open mind, add to the costs that the ships are only capable of "Beloved wife" - "Caliber" bullets (I seriously believe that the Russian leadership has some painful enthusiasm for "Caliber", probably because this is the only one of the latter that really flies and at the same time hits the target), the only conclusion is obtained: we do not have a fleet that would ensure the operational deployment of our submarine forces, from the word "absolutely ", but there are lobbied showy ships - representatives of the flag and only, and for fucking money ...
      2. +2
        29 June 2021 20: 18
        Quote: Anchorite
        22160 is a very slow and more expensive "dove of peace" with each modification, which fiercely spoils not only the fleet, but also the entire defense capability of the country. Unfortunately

        Even for me, a person far from the sea, - three years of life on the banks of the Karsky and a week of swimming in the Black Sea, and then, after getting acquainted with the performance characteristics of 22160, it became both funny and, at the same time, offensive for the Navy.
        The author of successes in the fight against this kind of troughs.
    5. -3
      29 June 2021 20: 22
      winked and how much price tag do not tell me?
    6. -1
      29 June 2021 20: 29
      excellent ship (from Chinese and American) - strictly for scarecrows and flag demonstrations.
      SUBCONSCIOUSNESS LEADS A MAN ALL OF HIS LIFE - WHAT IS IN CHILDHOOD AND YOUTH - GOES UP TO OLD AGE AND DEATH AND LEADS.
      "we are peaceful people and we handed over our armored train to the junior." an ocean-going fleet will never be built.
      and 10 units of Av with 100 VI each.
    7. 0
      30 June 2021 12: 27
      Well, at one time Putin ordered to send something against the Somali pirates, but what to send? It's a pity to ruin the resource of real ships, so they decided to bungle something like that ... smile
    8. +1
      30 June 2021 20: 37
      why such a variety, and why again do that universal stuffing non-stuffable in 2000 tons, surface attack ships are not needed at all, and even more so coastal patrolmen, but there is a need for a new IPC, the best way then = these patrol officers to make an anti-aircraft defense, and even a PMO, and remove the calibers from there ..., I am very pleased that Timokhin realizes the importance of goal-setting, which means he repented of his heresy about aircraft carriers and left the totalitarian destructive sect of aircraft carriers, because the aircraft carrier has no goals in the Russian Federation ... insights and repentance of the rest of the members of the heretical sect
  2. +2
    29 June 2021 18: 34
    An excellent article from a knowledgeable person. It smelled like the same VO.
    Even I have never
    Moreman almost everything is clear. Respect
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        1. -2
          29 June 2021 20: 44
          In your opinion, I’m a jerk — I think — there will be no ocean-going fleet. this is a condition of life under the control of the WB and the Fed. there is no truth in your spitting (and T), only annoyance at the surrendered positions in the Ocean.
          does anyone know the real possibilities of these troughs? for peacetime they are building and will be building the so-called "training ships for 1 \ 2 ships".
          well-developed design and suppliers, logistics, etc. are from the supplier's lexicon according to the project specification, not military application. and this is the main thing.
          project from 00-hgg
          1. +1
            29 June 2021 21: 16
            Quote: antivirus
            there will be no ocean-going fleet.

            I am not against the ocean-going fleet, I am against troughs of unknown purpose and dubious possibilities.
            1. 0
              30 June 2021 08: 26
              oceanic fleet is a derivative squared of foreign policy, which is based on internal capabilities (produces forces and production relations).
              financial comedy.
              therefore we will live with the coastal fleet.
              restrictions on the fleet are in the minds of "vocational schools" and their level of dreams ... and so on for life (see life expectancy in the country) until 2050 or 70 until those vocational schools retire (+ to the degradation of increasing the pension of age) - -and others what will they do with their heads? with other audacious dreams in their place will stand? then we will build an ocean-going fleet.
              1. -1
                30 June 2021 10: 53
                Quote: antivirus
                restrictions on the fleet are in the minds of PTUs and their level of dreams ..

                Dreams must have a way to come true. Development of science and industry, not options for importing components. How many years have ship diesel engines been pedaling? Billions of money have been spent, but there is no exhaust, or rather, individuals have it.
                It's the same with space. The salary of Rogozin is several times higher than that of the leaders of NASA and the Chinese Space Agency, but they are on Mars, not us. Maybe it's time to shoot someone?
                1. 0
                  30 June 2021 19: 18
                  It's the same with space. The salary of Rogozin is several times higher than that of the leaders of NASA and the Chinese Space Agency, but on Mars they

                  -It's strange that I have to explain to you on my fingers: many times over the course of 5 years I wrote about "friends in the student hostel ----- while we all remember the oligarchs as beggars or modest students with a glass of 777" - everyone considers it possible to catch up " forbes list "as he pleases

                  I myself knew the guy who "started at LiAZ with Deripaska", went to build equipment, and he went to the first redistribution (lumin). Everyone has the right to catch up - the initial accumulation (hapok) only for Chubais ended - also the district chiefs will want villas on the Cote d'Azur.
                  how can you not understand this.
                  1. -1
                    30 June 2021 19: 46
                    Quote: antivirus
                    it's strange that you have to explain to you on the fingers:

                    To be honest, I didn't understand anything from your answer. Like "Take these away - will others steal?"
                    Has it ever occurred to you to change the model of governing the country as a solution? Why does everything work out in China, in the USA?
                    1. 0
                      30 June 2021 19: 49
                      on the contrary - either the abolition of privatization and the change of the system of power ... or ... a little bit of reform, touch-up.
                      but the desire to catch up with Forbes - for the rest of his life ........... and all on all fronts go there.

                      where to find people to turn around?
    2. +10
      29 June 2021 19: 07
      Clarify about the "scum". It's funny (or rather tragicomic) that there are characters who consider themselves "the truth in everything." The rest are finished creatures.
  4. +8
    29 June 2021 18: 37
    We need a clear gradation for the SAC and radar and air defense systems for corvettes, frigates, destroyers, cruisers.
    Graduation in price and functionality. Otherwise, it is too much luxury to put on the RLK corvette from a frigate (or even from a cruiser), simply because there is no cheaper option, and which it does not fully implement.
    This is one of the primary tasks of the fleet.
    1. +2
      30 June 2021 08: 49
      We need a clear gradation for the SAC and radar and air defense systems for corvettes, frigates, destroyers, cruisers.
      Graduation in price and functionality.

      This is where the "correct" modularity is needed, so that the REV complex is executed modularly, with the possibility of increasing its capabilities by installing additional modules and antennas. And not to fence a separate radar for the corvette, separate for the frigate.
  5. 0
    29 June 2021 18: 42
    I have always wondered how and who and for what purpose could build 22160? There, after all, the tanker understands that the ship is completely useless at sea. Crew of fifty people and one cannon. The service is good.
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      1. +6
        29 June 2021 19: 55
        He may be a lobbyist, but he does it competently and reasonably. If you are ready to prove the usefulness of 20160 combat use, do it ...
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          1. -1
            29 June 2021 21: 57
            In fact, the naval research institutes proved the usefulness of this ship.

            Oh yeah ... research institute, rationale. Departmental research institutes will justify everything that the bosses order. I remember that they wrote that S.G. Gorshkov ordered such a research institute to justify the need for an AK-130 in the bow of an amphibious assault helicopter carrier. And they justified it.
            1. 0
              30 June 2021 12: 01
              Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
              I remember that they wrote that S.G. Gorshkov ordered such a research institute to justify the need for an AK-130 in the bow of an amphibious assault helicopter carrier.

              These are claims to Gorshkov, who probably did not understand everything in the construction of ships, and how they would act in a real situation. What does it have to do with the specialists of the research institute, if they followed the order of the commander-in-chief - why should they tear their vests and leave the service?
              Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
              And they justified it.

              If you knew about "Buran" and the history of the two reports, then you would not have paid attention to it at all.
            2. +1
              30 June 2021 13: 36
              Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
              Departmental research institutes will justify everything that the bosses order. I remember that they wrote that S.G. Gorshkov ordered such a research institute to justify the need for an AK-130 in the bow of an amphibious assault helicopter carrier. And they justified it.

              You will also remember "Khalzan", which, while Gorshkov was on vacation, was recklessly substantiated, and upon his return, they gave a negative conclusion. smile
    2. -2
      29 June 2021 19: 44
      Quote: Stepan S
      for what purpose could build 22160

      Well, the goal was simple - not to drive the BOD to fight pirates.
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      2. +1
        29 June 2021 22: 05
        These ships are poorly applicable to pirates, see the links in the text of the article. And this was clear from the very beginning.
        1. -2
          29 June 2021 22: 18
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          see links in the text of the article

          I've already read that. The only question is whether such an operation was possible by the forces of the Russian Federation? That is, technically yes, but with politics in mind? There are already questions.
      3. +1
        30 June 2021 13: 40
        Quote: Dart2027
        Well, the goal was simple - not to drive the BOD to fight pirates.

        For this, it was not necessary to build 22160. To fight pirates, a floating base of helicopters (4-6) is needed, because nothing else can provide a normal reaction time, a large area of ​​\ uXNUMXb \ uXNUMXbthe covered area and the ability to react to several attacks. Moreover, you can do it even from a dry cargo ship - the SCRC pirates have not yet acquired it.
        1. 0
          30 June 2021 19: 16
          Quote: Alexey RA
          To fight pirates, you need a floating base-carrier of helicopters (4-6)

          That is, in fact, UDC. it will be more expensive than BOD.
          1. +1
            1 July 2021 10: 10
            Quote: Dart2027
            That is, in fact, UDC. it will be more expensive than BOD.

            No-no-no, no UDC. There are no requirements of the Navy for survivability and security for landing ships, for weapons, for the number of forces and assets landed in the first echelon. Civilian corps, the possibility of simultaneous take-off of two helicopters, a hangar, the placement of l / s inspection teams based on a couple of months of duty.
          2. +1
            1 July 2021 14: 31
            The British did this from the tanker Fort Victoria. Successfully.
  6. 0
    29 June 2021 18: 44
    It is naive to think that such a policy of building a fleet is an accident. It is obvious that certain circles in our country hinder this process, since the maritime operations of the Russian Federation greatly strain ALL of our "partners" anywhere in the Ocean. Maybe there are some agreements ... Now the Russian Federation can really ensure, in fact, export by sea from Novorossiysk only ... And then to the eastern part of the Mediterranean Sea.
    1. -9
      29 June 2021 18: 51
      It is naive to think that such a policy of building a fleet is an accident.

      Well, the agent network works, though not in the same way as in the 90s, but still.
  7. +4
    29 June 2021 18: 58
    It's a pity to cut the Project 22160 ship, of course. On the Volga or on the Moscow River there is a club of young sailors, they have a very old training ship, they can give them one. They will be immensely happy. Also, I would give some of the ships to our ally Cuba. Maybe it will be useful to them, otherwise they sculpt, convert old seiners into warships. I think they do not have ship helicopters, at the stern you can place some kind of air defense.
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      1. +4
        29 June 2021 21: 58
        So it's already built. And those who want to push through?
      2. +1
        30 June 2021 06: 29
        My personal opinion is that the speed of the patrol border guard should be at least 35-40 knots. In peacetime, sufficient weapons, in military maximum (air defense, anti-aircraft defense). According to the mentality of the type of hussars or Cossacks.
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          1. 0
            30 June 2021 13: 46
            The question is what, when, in peacetime, a patrol border guard quietly rowing in the area assigned to him and sleepily observing the water area at an economical speed, this is one thing .. If the situation escalates as it is now in the Black Sea, he should instantly fly up to the Defender and accompany him at any speed. In my opinion, armament according to modern technologies should be or is desirable: okay 76 mm cannon, Pantsir-m or Tor M2, PLO with at least two small caliber torpedoes, Minimum detection complex for underwater vehicles and mini submarines, (It's still the FSB) ... In principle, the Carapace can also work on surface targets. About speed - before the revolution, the Russian destroyer "Novik" developed speed, if I'm not mistaken, 44 (!!!) knots on steam engines. We are completely stupefied that we cannot at least repeat these indicators. Why as hussars or Cossacks? This is surveillance and intelligence. And, if necessary, an instant strike and avoidance of a retaliatory strike.
        2. 0
          30 June 2021 13: 45
          Quote: V.
          My personal opinion is that the speed of the patrol border guard should be at least 35-40 knots.

          I wanted to remind you about an onboard helicopter, but then I remembered that a turntable is an expensive thing, it can be spoiled at sea, so with a high degree of probability the frontier guards will leave it on the shore (their "pebbles", pr. 22460, go without helicopters).
  8. 0
    29 June 2021 19: 36
    The current project 22160 was pushed quietly, without noise (by the way, there are very bad questions even about the established competitive procedures)
    Alexander, thank you very much for the article, very interesting and informative! For me, as a person far from the Navy and little versed in ships, the article was very useful and a logical question arises: how long will the "Serdyukovs" (in this case V.V. the main thing is when they finally begin to bear responsibility for the theft of the state budget, or how else can this action be called ?!
  9. +15
    29 June 2021 19: 47
    Yes, there was a carriage of models.

    For example, MegaEsminerGorshkov with a hundred missiles and S-300 DRUMS. Apparently you will have to slaughter some thread 1164 to rip out these drums. Since they have not been made for a hundred years.



    Or the newest aircraft carrier from the 90s, they took a model from the museum, cut down the island, put a new one. AWACS dead Yaks? Air defense from the dead soon 15 years as Daggers? Mines for a promising air defense system who died in the 90s? So what. Yes, even the sign could not be made normally. The contours of a dead developed civilization appear in this khargokult.


    In general, the interior is extremely fluid judging by the reports on Abaza. Of all the models, only the SDK is not bad there. With a normal layout and probably a penny price.
    1. +2
      29 June 2021 20: 06
      For the basis of this KFOR took "Serna", or "Dugong", nothing new from scratch. ...
      1. +6
        29 June 2021 21: 03
        There is a completely new building.



        1. +3
          30 June 2021 08: 56
          I also liked this KFOR. Now the USMC is going to equip similar ships. And here the bow slip is fully justified, in contrast to Project 11711
    2. +3
      29 June 2021 21: 59
      The question here is that behind the model of the destroyer there is no such disruptive lobby as that of Zelenodolsk.
  10. +5
    29 June 2021 19: 52
    I didn’t expect that there are people on the site who ... “are offended for the state” ...
    The article itself is fire, and the comments of the naval ... fellow
    I have learned from not guaranteed resilience sources that American patrol ships can reach speeds of up to 35 knots (Cyclone-class patrol ship - 31 - 35 knots)
    https://ru.xcv.wiki/wiki/List_of_patrol_vessels_of_the_United_States_Navy
    At the same time, the speed (even !!!) of the Russian version is 27 knots ...
    Forgive me, but education constantly makes me think that "ours should be the best", but in fact ...
    I believe that thanks to the energy and intransigence of the young and energetic, this will happen. It shouldn't be otherwise.
  11. +3
    29 June 2021 19: 57
    There was a time when a master who had cast a cannon went into battle to shoot from it. It seems that in shipbuilding it is time to return to this norm - to send Chirkov to serve on 22160.
  12. +4
    29 June 2021 20: 07
    Not a good solution with the placement of the gun mount cellar above the waterline. When an enemy projectile hits there, the ammunition can detonate, and the nose part will tear off. And if the explosion of the artillery cellar detonates the warhead in the missile cellar, everything will be over within a few seconds. The sequential placement of ammunition in the design is not new: a similar scenario, if it got into our 956, would, alas, be inevitable. It is rational to place the cellars under the waterline, to separate them from each other - this is what shipbuilders say. But, apparently, the speakers are not heard.
    1. +2
      29 June 2021 21: 27
      Andrew, what century do you live in? are you going to go out at the distance of artillery fire from fart and this is in the 21st century? these are cardboard boats one hit of 100mm no matter where and the cranks
      1. +5
        29 June 2021 22: 00
        You are wrong, the likelihood that the issue will have to be solved with artillery is very high - in places with intensive shipping, anti-ship missiles cannot be used, SAM is not always possible.
        Guns still matter.
        1. -7
          30 June 2021 12: 23
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          You are wrong, the likelihood that the issue will have to be solved with artillery is very high - in places with intensive shipping, anti-ship missiles cannot be used, SAM is not always possible.
          Guns still matter.

          Lies, because any helicopter NURS or its rapid-fire cannon will stop any intruder faster and much earlier than the surface ship will do, reaching the range of using its artillery systems. So ship cannons with a caliber of more than 80 mm, by and large, this is generally an anachronism, from the time of Ochakov and the conquest of the Crimea.
          1. +4
            1 July 2021 14: 33
            Have you been released again or what?
            Come on, tell me what is faster - open fire and weapons from the tracking position with weapons, or call the guard.

            Or tell us how a 30-mm helicopter cannon will stop an intruder with 10000 tons of VI.
            1. -5
              1 July 2021 14: 58
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              Have you been released again or what?

              Are you working off thirty hryvnias again?
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              Come on, tell me what is faster - open fire and weapons from the tracking position with weapons, or call the guard.

              Oh, how cool we are in military matters, especially considering that a helicopter flight of 150 km will cost much less than one day of finding a warship at sea.

              Quote: timokhin-aa
              Or tell us how a 30-mm helicopter cannon will stop an intruder with 10000 tons of VI.

              A burst of 30 mm cannon on the commander's (captain's) bridge will stop any impudent person, especially since after that, if he does not stop, either NURSs or anti-ship missiles will be fired at him from the shore.
              But Timokhin can continue to pose as a hero, although I do not think that he has ever been in a similar situation. And I know civilian sailors who came under fire from planes in the south of the Pacific Ocean - none of them was heroic, and they honestly admitted that the main thing was to get away, even despite the loss of the trawl.
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              3. 0
                1 July 2021 20: 21
                Are you working off thirty hryvnias again?


                Essentially, criticism is patriotism, and all smart leaders understood and encouraged this, because criticism essentially helped the leader see the situation more fully and make fewer mistakes.
                Only those leaders who are either fools or criminals are afraid of criticism, because then everyone can see who the leader is.
              4. +2
                2 July 2021 10: 56
                For a salary here people like you are saving heaps. Even with help.

                Oh, how cool we are in military matters, especially considering that a helicopter flight of 150 km will cost much less than one day of finding a warship at sea.


                And to drive the guard to the Red Sea? To the Persian Gulf? Or somewhere, "Ladny" was catching a timber carrier with the Baltic pirates? Don't wanna remember

                A burst of 30 mm cannon on the commander's (captain's) bridge will stop any impudent person, especially since after that, if he does not stop, either NURSs or anti-ship missiles will be fired at him from the shore.


                Right now on many ships the citadel, they will leave the bridge in advance and that's it. As for the anti-ship missiles, they cannot be used in areas with intensive shipping, you will get the next Lotus-1.

                And I know civilian sailors who came under fire from planes in the south of the Pacific Ocean - none of them was heroic, and they honestly admitted that the main thing was to get away, even despite the loss of the trawl.


                They carried the chickpea away, and the NURSs did not stop it, right? When you are finally caulked in the hospital,
                1. -2
                  2 July 2021 11: 43
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  And to drive the guard to the Red Sea?

                  And what have you forgotten there in the Red Sea, verbiage, to drive our warships there?
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  "Ladny" was catching a timber carrier with the Baltic pirates

                  Again, I started a cheap manipulation, taking into account the fact that many have forgotten that this is not our ship, and the owner too:
                  Arctic Sea transported timber from Finland to Algeria. Actually, the dry cargo ship at that time belonged to the Finnish company Solchart. In the media, "Arctic-Sea" was repeatedly mistakenly called a Russian ship... In fact, only the crew was Russian on the timber carrier.
                  On July 21, 2009, a timber carrier, loaded with almost seven tons of cubic meters of sawn timber, set off on its usual voyage from a Finnish port to an Algerian one, the usual route was covered under favorable weather conditions in two weeks. [С-BLOCK]
                  Three days later, a group of unknown assailants attacked the Arctic Sea in neutral waters. Since July 3, radio contact with the ship has been lost. According to the last transmitted coordinates of the Automatic Identification System, the location of the timber truck was the western part of the Bay of Biscay. It is reported by Rambler.
                  Further: https://news.rambler.ru/other/40270666/?utm_content=news_media&utm_medium=read_more&utm_source=copylink
                  With what joy are we obliged by our warships to ensure the safety of foreign shipowners, and even in the Bay of Biscay?
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  Right now on many ships the citadel, they will leave the bridge in advance and that's it.

                  The locators and radio equipment on the masts will amaze, and the kapets of such a ship will stop by itself.
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  They carried the chickpea away, and the NURSs did not stop it, right?

                  It is a pity that you were not there, then your "heroism" would have diminished:
                  Koreans shot Russian fishermen
                  North Korean border guards open fire on a Russian schooner in the Sea of ​​Japan

                  https://gudok.ru/content/incident/969382/
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  When you are finally caulked in the hospital,

                  I understand your desire - then your vile lies will be exposed less, and you achieve this by complaining about me to the administration. So what about thirty hryvnia - is it where your activities are fed?
      2. -5
        30 June 2021 12: 20
        Quote: Ryaruav
        Andrew, what century do you live in? are you going to go out at the distance of artillery fire from fart and this is in the 21st century? these are cardboard boats one hit of 100mm no matter where and the cranks

        Here, some "specialists" live in the last century and everyone dreams of chasing NATO ships in the Black Sea or the Baltic with border boats, and for this they take out and put 40 knots and no less, so that it is cool, like in a Formula 1 race. we thought that now the coastal means completely control all our territorial waters, and will detect anyone approaching them, even on a motor boat, long before crossing the border. And even then, depending on the danger, they will choose the method of arresting the violator, using aviation in the first place. With our fleet of aircraft, including electronic warfare aircraft, bombers and drones, we are able to stop the actions of any intruder, immobilizing him even if our border ships have a speed of only 25 knots. Aviation is now in all directions in the speed of destruction of any ships and coastal anti-ship complexes, but some naval "analysts" will never understand this.
        1. +4
          30 June 2021 13: 03
          Quote: ccsr
          And even if they thought that now the coastal means completely control all our territorial waters, and will detect anyone approaching them, even on a motor boat
          How simple everything is, why, knowing this, did the English destroyer flop into our waters? Extremes, or-or, Nikita Sergeevich relied on some missiles, but he cannot solve everything unambiguously, different types are needed even for missiles, especially, different ships in the fleet. Also, not all methods of suppressing border violations can be solved according to the same scheme, for example, by planes or drones.
          1. -1
            30 June 2021 13: 44
            Quote: Per se.
            How simple everything is, why, knowing this, did the English destroyer flop into our waters?

            And he did not flop to Sevastopol in a straight line, but walked tangentially along the extreme extremity of our troopers in that area - this tells any military specialist about his true goals.
            Quote: Per se.
            Extremes, or-or, Nikita Sergeevich relied on some rockets,

            Say thank you to him - we still live in the world precisely because he made a bet on rockets.
            Quote: Per se.
            Also, not all methods of suppressing border violations can be solved according to the same scheme, for example, by planes or drones.

            I will not prove something to you here, but ask the old foreign fishermen how the same Chilean or Argentine border guards operate when our ships tried to catch something with nets only along the edge of the 200 mile zone. I know from eyewitnesses how our ships were chopped and washed away when they saw their coast guard plane, because they opened fire on them without any warning. As you can see, they were not even afraid of our nuclear weapons - here is the answer to how to deal with violators.
            1. +2
              30 June 2021 20: 48
              Quote: ccsr
              I will not prove anything to you here
              There is no need to prove it, your opinion is enough. I heard him. I do not want to repeat myself, but I cannot solve everything with one aircraft. Drive off violators, only one side, another question, when it is necessary to DELETE. You have it generally outside the brackets. Only drones and aviation cannot solve the issue, even if we take into account the capture of an intruder from a helicopter, this is far from always possible and very difficult.

              Thanks for the missiles, I must say more to Stalin, with him the whole base was laid, with him Helmut Gertrupp ended up in the USSR, like other German rocket men. Under Stalin, the entire foundation of Soviet space and rocketry in particular was laid. Even thanks to Khrushchev, it is only for not ruining it.

              Your opinion, your right. I think that 20 knots for a border ship is clearly not enough. Which of us lives in the past or the future does not matter for reality. We will not make decisions at sea now.
              1. -3
                1 July 2021 09: 18
                Quote: Per se.
                Drive off violators, only one side, another question, when it is necessary to DELETE.

                Well, you detain him in 150 miles of our economic zone in violation of fishing rules - and then what? While you are delivering it to our port, hundreds of other violators will be poaching in this place. But it is worth shelling several violators from an airplane, helicopter or border ship, everyone will immediately understand how it will end for them. The same is with our territorial waters, otherwise we, like a bear, will be constantly poked with a stick.
                Quote: Per se.
                Thanks for the missiles, I must say more to Stalin, with him the whole base was laid,

                I know this, and I do not deny his personal participation in these programs. But one should not diminish the role of Khrushchev in the creation of intercontinental ballistic missiles, because it was he who went on to drastically reduce the fleet, due to which money appeared for the creation of new strategic weapons systems.
                Quote: Per se.
                I think that 20 knots for a border ship is clearly not enough.

                I did not mention this figure, because I think that 30 nodes will be enough. Everything else is already redundant, because then it is necessary to involve aviation in order to deal with small-sized high-speed ships.
                Well, the piles, which some "naval commanders" rave about, are generally on the verge of reason - our ship with its weapons is in itself an expensive thing to risk. Shooting at violators solves everything painlessly for us in any case.
      3. 0
        30 June 2021 21: 22
        Do you need to chew? Replace the shell of a naval gun with a shell of an aircraft cannon or a small anti-ship missile - the result is the same - the destruction of the hull and the complete destruction of the combat unit. I expressed a thought, but you did not bother to develop it for yourself.
  13. +1
    29 June 2021 20: 20
    Excellent professional analysis of the situation. We have a hard and stubborn cut bordering on level 89 sabotage, and this is no good for more than a minesweeper.
  14. The comment was deleted.
    1. +3
      29 June 2021 22: 01
      The way our decision makers should be. Are there few precedents?
  15. -1
    29 June 2021 21: 10
    The transfer of state sheep to private ones is not an easy process.
    Loot is not enough to steal, it must be washed.
    Russian military-industrial complex, ideal laundry ...
    Endless R&D, without result or in the form of single items, everything is secret. Said analogue and, a new mansion in NATO countries.
  16. +12
    29 June 2021 21: 13
    Artyom Karagodin (Artyom Karagodin), dear, magpies in Severodvinsk were cracking basco when one of the inspectors of the IDN (Inspection for Minors) in the Russian police, a history teacher by education, who did not have a driver's license even of category "A", suddenly became the head of the traffic police Department of Internal Affairs for the city of Severodvinsk. The wise raven replied to the white-sides: "The maiden name of his wife is Pospelova." ... Having retired from the internal organs, the former head of the traffic police, it happens the same, became one of the leaders of the Northern Shipbuilding Center in the newly formed USC (United Shipbuilding Corporation). Received an office in the DITR (House of Engineering and Technical Workers) of SEVMASH, according to his official duties he had to solve the problems of SEVMASH, Zvezdochka and Arctic, together with the factories of the Murmansk region and Arkhangelsk ... Therefore, when Roscosmos began to steer a journalist, and the bank " Rosselkhozbank ", who needs a son, what kind of education you need, the party with the emblem in the form of a blue bear after the epilation procedure, once again won the elections ... Until the World Cup there was ... Back in the 19th century, Nikolai Mikhailovich Karamzin wrote : "Nothing is new under the moon: What is, that was, will be forever. And before the blood flowed like a river, And before a man cried ..."
  17. -1
    29 June 2021 21: 21
    in europe, a long time ago, they forgot about the flex standard and the rest of the cocoa, but in our country most of the strippers are stupid and like not earned money
  18. 0
    29 June 2021 21: 38
    Interest ... he developed after a trip to the United States, and after that ... he left military service for a warm position at the United Shipbuilding Corporation.
    In the fourth photo, Rogozin is also rubbing, and interest has also appeared.
    1. 0
      29 June 2021 22: 02
      Yes, he does not understand anything about this, on the one hand, on the other hand, the gadyushnik in the military-industrial commission is partly his fault. He had to clear it out
  19. +1
    29 June 2021 21: 47
    I still have. from the late 90s, early 2000s, the thought crept in - oh, how famously Zelenodoltsy is able to push through their projects (11540, and then 21630 and then 21631, patrolman 22160)
    1. +5
      29 June 2021 22: 02
      It would be better if they pushed something else.
      1. +1
        29 June 2021 22: 10
        Unfortunately, after 1124, nothing was offered, and 11660 did not go only export)))
        1. +3
          29 June 2021 22: 11
          They have an interesting project based on 11661.
          1. 0
            29 June 2021 22: 13
            Yes, this is their niche, but something is not in demand?
            1. +1
              29 June 2021 22: 16
              Yes, and on Vietnamese corvettes I was looking for an PLO weapon and did not find it)))
          2. +1
            30 June 2021 09: 04
            The main question to 11661 is that his "Zorev" engines are designed.
            1. 0
              30 June 2021 09: 54
              I think that 11661 is no longer relevant.
            2. 0
              30 June 2021 10: 15
              There is a similar building with Kolomna
    2. +3
      30 June 2021 09: 02
      It was not Zelenodoltsy who shoved 22160, they only do it. Although they had an innovative project of the OVR Rusich corvette with outriggers. Northern PKB pushed 22160 into the Navy using lobbying connections and conjunction (surge in piracy in the Gulf of Aden)
  20. -9
    29 June 2021 23: 21
    All these ships must be peeled off, provided with local protection, packed in calibers to the maximum and sent to Kaliningrad and Sakhalin. Shove them into beams, holes, holes. You don't need to walk or swim far and quickly anywhere, the speed is secondary. Just carry the weapons and wait for the front command. Who knows how everything will turn on the subject of some next agreement, and these things are already sea-based installations. Will cover 100% Britain, France and Japan - respectively. Not bad. In this capacity, these ships will be quite dangerous and serious comrades for themselves.

    It is clear that at a speed of 15-20 knots - PLO functions ...



    You have to think something there. Perhaps something from the Bison (smaller) about two screws.
  21. -2
    29 June 2021 23: 30
    Does this ship have at least some advantages or features that it needs as a patrol officer and which corvettes do not have?
  22. -1
    30 June 2021 01: 35
    There is a modernization option. The cannon and the front launcher should be removed, instead of them the pool. Make the superstructure bigger, place there a luxury salon for the owner and several guest cabins. Change the turntable from an anti-submarine to a passenger one. Paint everything with white metallic and polish. Offer to oligarchs.
    1. +6
      30 June 2021 07: 32
      There is another option.

      Yacht length: 162,5 m Estimated value: $ 460 million The yacht was built in 2010 at the German shipyard Blohm + Voss (bought by Lurssen). Then she was considered the largest yacht in the world, but a few years later the 180-meter Azzam was commissioned for the President of the UAE. Eclipse has nine decks, a displacement of 13 tons, a crew of 500 people. She can carry two helicopters, four pleasure boats, 70 scooters and a mini submarine. The boat has a cinema room, a wine cellar and a 20-meter swimming pool that turns into a dance floor. The yacht is equipped with bulletproof glass, a missile attack warning system, and a paparazzi anti-paparazzi system.

      Put the cannon and the front launcher. Make the setting smaller, without luxury saloons and guest cabins. At the expense of the pool, add another helicopter or an assault boat. Paint everything in a "ball" color. Withdraw from the oligarchs, raise the flag of the Russian Navy.
      1. 0
        30 June 2021 07: 44
        Quote: Per se.


        .

        Fu what you are petty. Seize the yachts. Yes, they will not feel, for them it is, toys. If you seize it, then the means of production in the Russian Federation and accounts in foreign banks. Account access codes? Yes, they themselves will say, and purely voluntarily.

        And with these funds, not only will it undercut, an aircraft carrier can be built.
        1. -1
          30 June 2021 08: 16
          Quote: Nagan
          Fu what you are petty. The yachts should be seized.
          Well, this is a "prelude" before a "prostate massage" with a soldering iron. Seriously, there are a lot of things to deal with, with our party renegades, and, in general, "bad boys."
  23. -2
    30 June 2021 04: 36
    Although this is a harmful dummy, the project looks good after all.
  24. +2
    30 June 2021 07: 16
    Substantial, well-reasoned article. But, by God, everything is so reminiscent of the care of Lefty.

    For a long time, muddy things have been going on with our fleet, and they began with the cutting of our then newest and most modern boats (941). Further, the orgy in the media about the uselessness and even harm of aircraft carriers, there was only one "Admiral Kuznetsov", who miraculously survived the last (or not the last) attempt on his life in the PD-50. The fleet was destroyed, and, I think, the fault here is not only the hands of "effective managers" sticky from stupidity and greed, but also the direct leadership of our "partners", for whom a strong Russian fleet, nightmares, fad, paranoia.
    Only they are the masters of the seas and oceans, and they will pay any adherents to prove that Russia is a "land power", that aircraft carriers are ruinous evil, and that "steam locomotives" with railways will completely replace our fleet. At the same time, one should not be surprised at sabotage, sabotage, even sabotage. We need to figure out where all the ears are sticking out, who is the generator of ideas "useful" for the fleet.
    1. +3
      30 June 2021 10: 16
      Yes, I cannot disagree with you
    2. -3
      1 July 2021 01: 06
      Our management is to blame, the management of our partners did not appoint these respected people to positions.
      Putin is personally to blame, it is with his consent that these crimes are committed. If he does not understand this for 20 years, then he is not taking his place.
  25. 0
    30 June 2021 12: 05
    Without a full-fledged, honest and sane leadership of the Navy, we do not have either full-fledged ships or a full-fledged fleet.
  26. -1
    30 June 2021 15: 43
    I propose to name the next project 22160 ship Timokhin! He clearly deserves it!
  27. +4
    30 June 2021 15: 57
    Alexander, by God, only yesterday he wrote on one of the topics, but what if we replace the Albatrosses not at the Karakurt base, but at the 22160 base?
    Formally, if done cheaply and cheerfully, then all the calibers and redoubts into the furnace, instead of the BUGAS container, a package, 2 * 2 533 for a waterfall, and an M shell for air defense (you can have two for 4 channels in any direction, but this is an erebor). If you want shock, you can use the X-35. Remove the hangar, leave only the platform. And put the afterburner. There is some positive.
    The issue of seaworthiness is easier to solve than the insertion into Karakurt. Afterburners are needed here and there. The body of the kmk can even be lightened, the volumes of extra dofig.
    As for me, it's very good.
    1. -2
      1 July 2021 14: 35
      Alexander, by God, only yesterday he wrote on one of the topics, but what if we replace the Albatrosses not at the Karakurt base, but at the 22160 base?


      There is even such a project, but for some reason "Almaz" is hiding it. And it is cooler than what you offer

      Klimov wrote an article on this topic, it will be released soon.
      1. +1
        1 July 2021 18: 05
        No need to be steeper, we already have cooler, 22380. We need a lot and cheaper. And preferably with minimal alterations, from what is.
        Thanks for the news, I will wait for the article.
  28. 0
    30 June 2021 16: 22
    And install the hook to remove the redoubt and you get the same corvette flat
  29. -4
    30 June 2021 21: 34
    Yes, I generally look at our shipbuilding program, to put it mildly, not ice, destroyers are driven by aircraft and a couple of boats in 600 tons. Waste of funds on something that is of no use. Would build corvettes and frigates, at least these are full-fledged warships. And we really need superpots to approach the same American destroyers in terms of tonnage and armament saturation. A fast, well-armed patrol boat is needed to protect the coastal line. Take the same old Soviet patrol SKR project 1135, developed in 1964-1966, and it is better than everything that chased the British Defender and this is the 21st century.
    1. -2
      30 June 2021 22: 52
      And what good do you want from these warships - the most important weapon against enemy ships they have is launching calibers in which soon and hypersonic Zircons will set one hit and all enemy ships will have a cover or they will not be subject to restoration to the bottom or into scrap - there is no point in spending on destroyers and aircraft carriers.
      1. 0
        2 July 2021 10: 25
        And how to shoot Zircon from this trough?
        1. -1
          2 July 2021 23: 08
          It’s easy, just like with others - from Buyanov Calibers are excellent at launching what will prevent Zircons from launching - the dimensions and weight seem to be the same, and the launching system is the same - what will prevent launching?
  30. -2
    1 July 2021 01: 02
    Putin is personally to blame for this situation. It was he who employed and covers all these criminals, they row money, but does he live on another planet?
    1. +2
      1 July 2021 14: 36
      Yes, he is already old, with a lot of health problems, there a tower of ivory has long been built. He does not control these issues.
  31. 0
    1 July 2021 15: 09
    It was Project 22160 that accompanied the Defender URO frigate all the way from the Bosphorus to Odessa and Batumi Yes
    And without entering ports and refueling wink
    And all thanks to the project's record autonomy of 60 days!
    It was his drone that accompanied the Defender on the way to the Sevastopol traverse, it was his AK-176MA aircraft that insured the border guard.
    1. -2
      1 July 2021 20: 34
      It was Project 22160 that accompanied the Defender URO frigate all the way from the Bosphorus to Odessa and Batumi

      Yes, this anecdote was seen by all TV viewers of the Air Force, how the British ship added speed and our misunderstanding of Project 22160, armed with one cannon, immediately fell behind. The British ship was in complete control of the situation and only he could decide whether to accompany our ship or not, let our ship go to the bottom or not.
  32. -1
    1 July 2021 15: 12
    Quote: Bogatyrev
    Does this ship have at least some advantages or features that it needs as a patrol officer and which corvettes do not have?

    AUTONOMY and HABITABILITY !!!!!
    1. +2
      2 July 2021 11: 05
      Can then buy ocean yachts for the Navy? There, with autonomy and habitability, it is still better.
  33. +2
    2 July 2021 12: 54
    I don’t understand something, the USSR Navy went to 32-35 knots, but here 27 are unattainable. What happened ?
    1. 0
      2 July 2021 18: 23
      They sold a screw to the Eskimos for a barrel of wine ... Rats have been in London for a long time. Unforgettable Grandfather Glory ...

    2. -1
      2 July 2021 21: 02
      The interests of respected people happened. To explain with common sense, in the 21st century, the construction of a warship, with a speed of 22 knots and armed with one cannon, at a price comparable to the cost of a full-fledged corvette capable of walking 29 knots and providing air defense and anti-aircraft defense is impossible.
      1. 0
        2 July 2021 23: 14
        at a price comparable to the cost of a full-fledged corvette capable of walking 29 knots and providing air defense and anti-aircraft defense is impossible. You will not give price tags - 22160 and corvette 20386 for comparison.
        1. -1
          3 July 2021 20: 37
          Do you want to compare the sawing project of a trough with a cannon at the price of a corvette with a sawing project of a trough such as a corvette, with the capabilities of an MRK and at the price of a combat-ready frigate? Awesome!
          Let's compare the cost of project 22160 with the cost of a Chinese corvette. Salaries at a Chinese shipyard are higher, they buy metal from us, and it should be cheaper with us. The only difference is that they don't have reputable people and stupid directors. Because there is a tough demand from directors and respected people are shot in batches. Therefore, they have a combat-ready fleet, but we do not.