MACV-SOG. Secret special operations unit operating in Vietnam

215

The Vietnam War has become one of the largest conflicts of the 1955th century. It officially lasted from 1975 to 1965, ending with the fall of Saigon. Also known as the Second Indochina War. In the period from 1973 to XNUMX, American troops actively participated in the war, organizing a full-scale military intervention in the conflict.

In total, almost 3,2 million American soldiers passed through Vietnam during this time. In 1968, at the height of the conflict, there were 540 American troops in the country. In this war, the United States lost more than 58 thousand people killed and missing, and more than 303 thousand received various injuries. 64 percent of Americans killed in the war were under the age of 21.



In American society, the war was not popular and gave rise to a powerful anti-war movement within the country. The war was especially unpopular among young people. In October 1967 alone, up to 100 thousand young people gathered in Washington who were opposed to the continuation of the Vietnam war.

The war left unhealed scars in American society, and its unpopularity contributed to the fact that many individuals and entire divisions were forgotten and practically unknown to the common man today.

One of these units was the special operations unit MACV-SOG. Meanwhile, it was one of the most secret and elite units in the entire American armed forces of those years.

The emergence and number of MACV-SOG


MACV-SOG stands for Military Assistance Command, Vietnam - Studies and Observations Group. Literally from English, this can be translated as "Command for the provision of military assistance to Vietnam - research and observation group."

In fact, this special unit, formed on January 24, 1964, was a top-secret unit of the American special forces.

MACV-SOG. Secret special operations unit operating in Vietnam
Unofficial MACV-SOG emblem

The unit was created to carry out special operations in various countries of Indochina. Fighters MACV-SOG operated in South and North Vietnam, in Laos, Cambodia, Burma and even in the border areas of China. The importance of this unit is evidenced by the fact that the final tasks for it were approved at the level of the White House or the Department of State. Also, MACV-SOG fighters were used in missions initiated by the CIA.

To assess the elitism of a unit, it is enough to talk about its size. For eight years of participation in hostilities from 1964 to 1972, a little more than two thousand American special forces served as part of the special forces, of which only about 400-600 people participated in direct action operations.

For comparison: the total number of Americans who served in Vietnam during the war years is estimated at about 3,2 million people, of which about 20 thousand were "green berets", of which, in the end, in many respects, the composition of the MACV-SOG special forces was recruited. The composition of the secret special forces was recruited exclusively from special forces and only on a voluntary basis.

In addition to the Americans, in 1966 the MACV-SOG included about 8 thousand Vietnamese and local residents of other nationalities. Indigenous support was vital for cross-border operations.


American special forces on the Ho Chi Minh trail, Laos territory

Special forces from the MACV-SOG carried out strategic reconnaissance and conducted operations in the territory of the Republic of Vietnam, the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. Among other things, they were engaged in the search and rescue of downed American pilots, training agents among the rebels, reconnaissance operations, attacks and sabotage behind enemy lines, propaganda and psychological warfare. During the eight years of their stay in Vietnam, the special forces of the secret unit managed to take part in all major operations of the Vietnam War.

Interesting facts about the special forces MACV-SOG


The main field of combat work of the MACV-SOG fighters was the famous Ho Chi Minh trail. The problem was that this path went through the territory of formally neutral states, including Laos and Cambodia. The operations carried out by the MACV-SOG fighters were carried out precisely in those areas where American troops were not supposed to be. There were successive U.S. administrations, but claims that the U.S. military did not operate outside of South Vietnam remained unchanged.

For this reason, the special forces from the MACV-SOG did not wear any name tags, ranks, insignia or insignia on their uniforms that would help identify them as American military personnel. Even weapon fighters of this secret special forces did not have serial numbers. In total, until the moment of its disbandment on April 30, 1972, the unit managed to carry out approximately 2,6 thousand cross-border operations.


North Vietnamese trucks on the "trail". Photo taken by special forces MACV-SOG

A feature of the unit was the great involvement of the indigenous population, who knew the area well and could act as guides. As we have already noted, at the peak in the MACV-SOG units, up to 8 thousand Vietnamese and representatives of other local peoples, tribes and ethnic groups who were dissatisfied with the communists served.

They made up the majority of the intelligence groups involved in cross-border operations. Typically, such groups consisted of 2-4 Americans and 4-9 local residents. Their skills, abilities, knowledge of the terrain played a huge role in reconnaissance missions.

Some MACV-SOG fighters believed they possessed supernatural powers - a sixth sense that allowed them to detect danger. There was nothing supernatural, of course, in their actions. They just grew up and spent most of their lives in the area and in the environment in which they had to act.

The statistics of the losses of the soldiers of the top-secret unit looks curious. As noted in the American media, SOG had a 100 percent loss rate. This means that all fighters who took part in direct action operations were either wounded (some many times) or died.


American special forces soldier surrounded by military personnel from among local residents

Most often, reconnaissance groups were small enough, but for raids and ambushes they could combine into larger units. Typically, such units were the size of a rifle platoon and could include up to 5 American soldiers and 30 local military personnel. Sometimes several of these units would join together to form a company-sized unit. In this composition, the special forces could effectively act against the identified headquarters and logistics centers of the enemy.

Before completing the mission, special forces from the SOG groups went through a special quarantine. For a certain time, the fighters ate the same food as their opponent from North Vietnam. These were mainly rice and fish. Today it may seem extravagant, but the special forces did everything to ensure that the smell of soldiers and even the products of their vital activity did not stand out in the jungle, where the special forces were operating surrounded by enemies many times outnumbering them.

Special forces MACV-SOG used "air cavalry"


Helicopters have become one of the symbols of the Vietnam War. Rotary-wing aircraft can be found in a huge number of photographs, videos from the conflict zone, they are widely represented in numerous films. The commandos of even the most secret American units could not do without the support of helicopters. Attack helicopters were often used to send reconnaissance groups behind enemy lines.


The shooter fires into the jungle from a multi-barreled 7,62-mm machine gun

Several aviation squadrons, including from the army of South Vietnam. So, together with the special forces, the fighters of the 20th Special Operations Squadron of the US Air Force, which was known as the "Green Hornets", actively worked. The squadron flew Sikorsky CH-3C and CH-3E and Bell UH-1F / P Huey helicopters.

The pilot of this squadron, Senior Lieutenant James P. Fleming, was awarded the Medal of Honor, the highest American military award, for rescuing one of the SOG reconnaissance groups in 1968. To understand the contribution of the pilots, it is worth noting that in just 8 years, only six fighters from the MACV-SOG were awarded the Medal of Honor.

The helicopters used by the Green Hornets squadron were armed with 7,62-mm M-60 machine guns, multi-barreled 7,62-mm GAU-2B / A machine guns, including containerized ones, and unguided aircraft missiles. At the same time, when ammunition was exhausted (and such situations arose), pilots and weapons operators could switch to fire from personal weapons - assault rifles, as well as dropping conventional fragmentation grenades from helicopters.


Helicopters H-34 in the sky of Vietnam, 1965

From the Air Force of South Vietnam, 219 Squadron, which flew the not the most modern, but rather reliable helicopters H-34 Kingbees, worked closely with the special forces of MACV-SOG. The silhouette of this helicopter is usually not associated with the Vietnam War in the minds of the average person, but it remains very recognizable.

The operations carried out by MACV-SOG were practically unparalleled in the US military and special operations forces in terms of the level of risk and effectiveness. The study of the experience of their combat use in the eight-year period of the war from 1964 to 1972 became an incentive for the further development of similar units in the United States and laid the seedlings from which the US Special Operations Command (SOCOM) would later grow.
215 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +8
    18 June 2021 03: 58
    As noted in the American media, SOG had a 100 percent loss rate. This means that all fighters who took part in direct action operations were either wounded (some many times) or died.

    Remained statistics and stories
    1. +21
      18 June 2021 08: 10
      It was almost a miracle if an SOG fighter survived after two dozen raids behind enemy lines. Among them was Jerry Shriver, US Special Forces Sergeant XNUMXst Class, who was dubbed "Mad Dog" by Radio Hanoi.
      It was he who owns the legendary phrase, which was later quoted with pleasure in the American special forces. When his group was once surrounded by the enemy, the aircraft controller broadcast a message to Shriver by radio that the situation was worsening and that "it is time for us to go." To which Shriver replied: "No way. I caught them exactly as planned - I surrounded them from the inside." In Vietnam, 28-year-old Shriver served two terms. Congressional Medal of Honor Jim Fleming, a veteran of the Special Operations Group (SOG), recalled that he was “the quintessential lone warrior, the antisocial type, constantly focused on the task, the commander of the best of the groups. He always prepared for battle, constantly trained, constantly ". Shriver did not communicate with anyone, he often wandered around the camp, not changing his uniform for days. He always slept with a loaded rifle. At the sergeant's club, he bought a pack of beer, opened all the cans, went into a corner and drank there alone. He did not pay attention to the awards, although by that time he had a Silver Star, five Bronze Stars and a Soldier's Medal. Everyone agreed that there was no one better than Shriver in the jungle. "Working next to him is like with a dog that could speak at the same time," O'Rourke recalled. "He had a fantastic instinct, he saw everything. I don't know anyone, except Shriver, who would feel the jungle is better than home. "Shriver preferred not to rest after another operation, but to go on a mission with another group. "He lived for the risk, - said Dale Libby. - It was the meaning of his life, nothing more." Once Shriver promised everyone, including the command, that he was going on vacation - instead, he slipped away to the Play Jarang Special Forces camp to go on another mission. Shriver once confessed to Sammy Hernandez that he would not live long - he played cat and mouse with death for too long and felt that his time was near. His death remained a mystery. There were rumors that the Vietnamese managed to take Shriver prisoner, but there was never any confirmation of this.
      1. +10
        18 June 2021 08: 49
        A kind of prototype of Captain Willard from the Apocalypse ... "He was also thirsty for action and went crazy from the hotel seat.
        1. +5
          18 June 2021 09: 39
          Quote: hohol95
          A kind of prototype of Captain Willard from the Apocalypse

          And for some reason I remembered this character:

          the train that could ...)))
          1. +6
            18 June 2021 09: 42
            Oh my old memory ...
            Corporal! Go to your mother and ask her to bring me my bayonet-knife ...
            Hehehe hahaha
            It is necessary to think of it - to shave the shepherd dog of the guide !!! good
        2. +4
          18 June 2021 20: 05
          Lesha, good evening. I don’t know about others, but for me people like Shriver are more terrible than gyurza. Gyurza has some kind of logic: until you touch it, it is not dangerous, and Shriver or Willard are completely unpredictable! It's easy for him to kill someone. Such people live only in war, but in a peaceful life ...
          1. +3
            18 June 2021 20: 19
            Break through the Internet - KAYSAKA.
            They said on TV that this snake, unlike its relatives, attacks first !!! Always.
            It does not freeze, does not crawl away, but immediately into the attack and fangs out ...
            It is with such a snake that these "characters" should be compared!
            1. +3
              18 June 2021 20: 24
              I agree. Yes, and the gyurzu can only be called predictable by those who have never watched at least * In the animal world *, in the same format. A cunning, aggressive, vicious snake. More less predictable can be called efu. And in general, unpleasant creatures are all without exception.
              1. +2
                18 June 2021 21: 07
                I saw only snakes.
                But in the program "In the world of animals" they always said that the snake bites at the moment of danger. Don't rush. Don't hit.
                I remember from the plot - a boy climbed a tree, thrust his hand into a bird's nest or a hollow and got a bite from a gyurza .... Doctors had time to inject the necessary medicine!
                He touched her.
                And the kaisaka itself is scored on a person or an animal. Even when there is no threat from them!
                1. +2
                  18 June 2021 21: 12
                  So the gyurza often rushes at a person itself, it's just that she has such a character. This is another feature of the African black mamba, but it is dangerous in that it develops a very high speed and can catch up with a running person. Well, of course, it is poison. It is very toxic.
                  1. +2
                    18 June 2021 21: 16
                    To my delight I live in Central Russia. Sometimes they say vipers are seen in the city, but I did not come across.
                    1. +3
                      18 June 2021 21: 22
                      Similarly. Well, in conclusion, the top of the tops is the Australian taipan! Armed / teeth up to 13 mm! /, Aggressive and extremely dangerous!
                      1. +3
                        18 June 2021 21: 29
                        The Americans "brought" one small snake to the island of Guam. It does not threaten people. But out of 13 bird species, only 2 remain at the moment, and local spiders have bred ...
                      2. +3
                        19 June 2021 07: 50
                        Good morning!
                        You mean the brown boy!
                      3. +2
                        18 June 2021 21: 40
                        The snake is a snake. She is a BEAST !!! PREDATOR!!!
                        And the respected Astra was talking about a person.
                        Another "viper" in the skin of a man wants to heap up such things !!! In my soul.
                        And if he succeeds ... The devils get sick!
                        I read it for a long time - they conducted an attractiveness test. The most repulsive person turned out to be a person who has been doing charity work all his life. And the most attractive was a thief and a swindler !!! "Snake in the grass"!
                      4. 0
                        20 June 2021 10: 09
                        Alyosha, in fairness, snakes are adjacent, and animals are animals
                      5. +1
                        20 June 2021 11: 32
                        Watching WikiWiki: Kingdom - Animals; Type - chordate; Class - reptiles; The detachment is scaled.
                2. +1
                  20 June 2021 10: 03
                  As a child I loved to watch: "In the world of animals" I really respected la N. N. Drozdov and it hurts me to watch him now appear in commercials
              2. +3
                19 June 2021 18: 14
                Quote: Phil77
                I agree. Yes, and the gyurzu can only be called predictable by those who have never watched at least * In the animal world *, in the same format. A cunning, aggressive, vicious snake. More less predictable can be called efu. And in general, unpleasant creatures are all without exception.

                In the Northern Black Sea region, the Yellow-bellied snake is found (the largest snake in Europe. 2 meters or more). At a chance meeting with a person, he attacks first. And although it is not poisonous, the bites are very painful.
          2. +1
            19 June 2021 19: 04
            but in a peaceful life ...

            In a peaceful life, we see them almost every day or we meet them personally - they act as professional athletes at competitions, for example. They, for example, also work in extreme sports and shows, technicians, lifeguards, divers, extreme reporters and even stuntmen and artists of some dangerous genres of acting. Yes, we even hear at night - in the form of night racers. And even in e-sports, the same mechanisms of the human mental sphere work, just their peaceful application. A circus peaceful tightrope walker without belay or a professional track motorcycle racer has approximately the same basic mental activity as Shriver. Although the latter probably also had serious mental trauma, PTSD.
            1. +1
              20 June 2021 20: 32
              Quote: ycuce234-san
              but in a peaceful life ...

              In a peaceful life, we see them almost every day or we meet them personally - they act as professional athletes at competitions, for example. They, for example, also work in extreme sports and shows, technicians, lifeguards, divers, extreme reporters and even stuntmen and artists of some dangerous genres of acting. Yes, we even hear at night - in the form of night racers. And even in e-sports, the same mechanisms of the human mental sphere work, just their peaceful application. A circus peaceful tightrope walker without belay or a professional track motorcycle racer has approximately the same basic mental activity as Shriver. Although the latter probably also had serious mental trauma, PTSD.

              PTSD has been taken seriously relatively recently (about 20 years old), but how many men have suffered ?! In my 9th floor building, the guy after the Afghan, hung out of the window and pulled himself up on the windowsill of the 8th floor. everyone thought they were crazy.
              1. 0
                20 June 2021 20: 48
                From him, I think, almost the Australopithecus peasants suffered.
                The Assyrians, for example, left written evidence.
                On the net you can find "Assyrians and PTSD", "Psychic trauma in monkeys".
      2. +13
        18 June 2021 09: 16
        Good morning Serge.
        Interesting addition, haven't read about this guy. Then I immediately remembered the film "The Fall of the Black Hawk" and that special forces from "Delta", who was going to return to the city alone, as he said: "It's easier for me to be alone."
      3. +7
        18 June 2021 09: 25
        There was also a Vietnamese named Khan Doan, nicknamed Cowboy. They say that before the war, his father, sensing what it smelled of, said - "learn, son, English. It will come in handy."
        In SOG, Cowboy spent six years. In 1972, during another raid, he lost his leg. After the fall of Saigon, he went to the north of the country, where he spent 11 years incognito. Tried to leave Vietnam 14 times. In 1986, I managed to leave for the Philippines, from there to the States.
      4. +8
        18 June 2021 19: 14
        Quote: SERGE ant
        If a SOG fighter remained alive after two dozen raids behind enemy lines, it was perceived almost as a miracle.

        You might think: death row. But here's another kind of infa:
        In 1969, the ratio of casualties in the regular units of the American army was 15: 1 - for 1 JI killed - 15 Viet Cong.

        In the same year, in January-February, MACV-SOG lost 15 people and killed almost one and a half thousand enemy soldiers. That is, the ratio is 100: 1.

        A year earlier, in 1968 in Cambodia, the MACV-SOG ratio was 108: 1.

        In 1970, for every SOG operative killed, 153 Viet Cong were killed, and this is an absolute record in the entire military history of the United States.
        1. -3
          18 June 2021 21: 58
          And it helped them? Where did these tsyfiri come from?
          The Germans also destroyed many partisans in counter-partisan operations, and lost the war!
        2. -1
          18 June 2021 22: 17
          So where did the announced figures come from ???
          Archive, memoirs or just the memories of "veterans"?
        3. +1
          18 June 2021 22: 38
          Dear Hyperion!
          Let me give you an answer - where does your data come from?
          What sources?
          And are they trustworthy?
          1. +2
            19 June 2021 11: 11
            Quote: hohol95
            Let me give you an answer - where does your data come from?

            Keep:
            http://zippocollector.ru/archives/1128
            Before asking every 15 minutes, you would have looked that I was offline on VO and did not see your comments.
            You can decide for yourself about trust. What I bought for ...
            1. 0
              19 June 2021 11: 24
              The higher the frequency of the question, the higher the chance of getting an answer! hi
              1. +2
                19 June 2021 11: 29
                We might not have waited. Just type this text into Yandex, and - voila: on the second line is the same post. Yes
  2. +10
    18 June 2021 07: 24
    The author has everything out of place.
    American special forces on the Ho Chi Minh trail, Laos territory

    This is not American special forces. These are the soldiers of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam, photographed by the American special forces.
    Joel D. Meyerson, Images of a Lengthy War, p. 206
    North Vietnamese trucks on the "trail". Photo taken by special forces MACV-SOG

    This photo was taken by a correspondent for VNA - Vietnam News Agency.
    VNA/VNS Photo Văn Sắc.
    1. +4
      18 June 2021 11: 06
      Viktor hi
      I have a question for you, as a "universal expert":
      Do the now widely advertised and ultra-fashionable SOG knives have anything to do with the MACV-SOG division?



      Or is it just a hype advertising name of this company and its products for the "divorce" of buyers?
      1. +12
        18 June 2021 11: 41
        Do the now widely advertised and ultra-fashionable SOG knives have anything to do with the MACV-SOG division?

        This is such a marketing ploy to win a piece of place in the sun in a crowded and highly competitive market.

        This is the SOG Bowie Knife, which was designed in 1966 by Benjamin Baker, Chief of the United States Counterinsurgency Office (CISO), for MACV-SOG.
        The knife had no markings and was produced in Japan by Yogi Shokai and Japan Sword. How many of them were released, I can't say, about 5000-6000.
        And in 1986, the young designer Spencer Fraser and his wife Gloria decided that the legend had a chance to succeed, they organized the firm SOG Specialty Knives, Inc. and started with the release of copies of famous combat knives - SOG Knife, SCUBA / Demo. Moreover, until 2005 copies of SOG Knife were produced in Japan, at Hattori, then in Taiwan.
        Now the company produces many different high quality knives and tools, including copies of the SOG Knife.
        1. +5
          18 June 2021 11: 46
          Thank you
          with respect
          Dmitriy
  3. +9
    18 June 2021 07: 49
    So this is where John Rambo served fellow
    1. +7
      18 June 2021 08: 42
      Couldn't Colonel John Matrix have served there? Major Alan Schaeffer?
      Or Casey Rybek? lol
      1. +7
        18 June 2021 09: 17
        Hi Aleksey.
        They all served together in Hollywood. laughing
        1. +3
          18 June 2021 20: 28
          And some people enter the Kremlin. laughing
          Hi Konstantin!
          1. 0
            19 June 2021 07: 20
            Whoever enters there. laughing
        2. 0
          19 June 2021 19: 07
          "Set aside the model! Alignment with the producer! ..."
      2. +5
        18 June 2021 09: 38
        I never dived so deeply into such high quality films request ))
      3. +2
        18 June 2021 09: 52
        Quote: hohol95
        Couldn't Colonel John Matrix have served there? Major Alan Schaeffer?
        Or Casey Rybek?

        Here's the exact thing that Jackie Chan's character from The Foreigner served in this office. Judging by the flashbacks))

        The ethnic composition of the "local" (or as the Americans called them little people) was very colorful - among others, and hao nungi - ethnic Chinese.
      4. Alf
        +1
        18 June 2021 19: 02
        Quote: hohol95
        Major Alan Schaeffer

        And who is it ? The hero of which movie?
        1. +4
          18 June 2021 20: 14
          How do you not know that he saved humanity from a terrible monster ??? Tin ...
          1987 year! Latin America ... And insurance ... "HISHNIK" !!!
          Arnold "Steel" Schwarzenegger as Major ...
          And he defeats the unearthly offspring of the king "Hades"!
          1. Alf
            +2
            18 June 2021 20: 31
            Quote: hohol95
            How do you not know that he saved humanity from a terrible monster ??? Tin ...
            1987 year! Latin America ... And insurance ... "HISHNIK" !!!
            Arnold "Steel" Schwarzenegger as Major ...
            And he defeats the unearthly offspring of the king "Hades"!

            Shame on my gray head, I forgot !!! He is remembered as Dutch, the Dutchman. I am getting old, I began to forget the classics ...
            1. +1
              18 June 2021 21: 13
              Come on. I just remembered the movie and hit WikiWiki! drinks
              I just decided to grab a few examples of amerovskoy films, where GG was "from Spetsnaz"!
              So I remembered the most "downhole hits" of the era of "video salons" !!!
              "Commando", "Predator", "Under siege".
              There are 3 films in total. And how many more forgotten ...
    2. +5
      18 June 2021 08: 58
      And I again remembered Sergeant Duncan, he just worked in the Viet Cong rear as part of such a group of South Vietnamese special forces. Nominally, this group was commanded by a Vietnamese captain, but in fact, after disembarking in the jungle, the Vietnamese sergeant "boxi" (nurse). Duncan was lucky, he went through the whole war without a single scratch, although he went on raids regularly.
    3. +6
      18 June 2021 09: 21
      No, Rambo was a fool, he ran through the jungle with a machine gun, the absolute unreliability of which the Americans themselves recognized. Special forces don't live like that. wink
      1. +8
        18 June 2021 09: 29
        Oh, come on.
        And his bow is epic ... An arrow with a depleted plutonium tip pierced the frontal plate of an Afghan mountain ram good
        1. +5
          18 June 2021 09: 34
          ... Afghan mountain sheep


          Well, if only. laughing

          I don’t even remember if he shot down a helicopter there with a tank gun? I am generally a fan of science fiction. wassat

          1. +6
            18 June 2021 09: 39
            But in the last film, he so masterfully dealt with the Mexican drug cortel ...
            And he took out the heart of the main villain with a spoon!
            And on my own, as usual, I dug Vietcong catacombs on my ranch. But with dimensions for your figure!
            1. +6
              18 June 2021 09: 47
              I have not seen, the rest of the tales about him above the roof were enough for me. Although the very first film is very good.
              1. +3
                18 June 2021 09: 49
                Only one policeman was killed!
                In book 20. And the death of John himself.
                1. +3
                  18 June 2021 10: 00
                  Do not read. And, frankly, I don’t regret it.
              2. +3
                18 June 2021 12: 18
                Although the very first film is very good.

                Do you mean "Italian stallion?"
                1. +4
                  18 June 2021 12: 27
                  Hi, hi. hi
                  I am not a specialist in cinema, but I was referring to the film where the sheriff of some provincial town got to the bottom of Rambo, on his head, and what came of it later.

                  "Stallion" somehow did not see and there is no desire.
                  1. +3
                    18 June 2021 13: 34
                    "Italian Stallion" is the very first film in which Stallone starred. The classic Italian p..or ... but the seventies, so I can't cite footage from it here. After all, he started out as a ... rno ... actor.
                    1. +2
                      18 June 2021 14: 15
                      Well, it's understandable why I haven't heard anything about this film. True, for some reason the desire does not arise to watch a film with that name.
                      1. +2
                        18 June 2021 14: 19
                        True, for some reason, the desire to watch a film with that name does not arise.

                      2. +2
                        18 June 2021 15: 53
                        I do not know, maybe. smile And in his youth, there was no need to watch it, there were enough of their adventures.
          2. +3
            18 June 2021 09: 40
            Quote: Sea Cat
            ... Afghan mountain sheep


            Well, if only. laughing

            I don’t even remember if he shot down a helicopter there with a tank gun? I am generally a fan of science fiction. wassat


            This happened in Lebanon in 1982. The tank was shooting somewhere, the helicopter accidentally flew there laughing
            1. +3
              18 June 2021 09: 46
              Well, once a year the shaft shoots. laughing
              1. +5
                18 June 2021 09: 55
                So at one time there was a legend for quite a long time that it was "so conceived." Until in the XNUMXs, the commander of that tank was not found and in an interview he spoke about the accident laughing
                1. +3
                  18 June 2021 10: 05
                  Here are the filmmakers from this occasion, apparently, and decided to arrange a benefit for Rambe. laughing
                  1. +7
                    18 June 2021 10: 08
                    In fact, I think that the tale "shot down an airplane from a tank cannon" appeared with the first participation of the male Big Willie laughing
                    1. +1
                      18 June 2021 10: 19
                      And what kind of episode, I did not hear, although the plane of that time could be shot down with a slingshot. laughing
                      1. +2
                        18 June 2021 10: 50
                        I wrote this about the appearance of the legend, as such, presumably))
                        And in the Lebanese war (the first) there was a case when an M-60 fired somewhere at the Syrian infantry, an Mi-24 flew out from behind a hill (sort of), and ran into a shell.
                        The Jews inflated the case - such as a Syrian attack helicopter attacked their tank unit, and the tank commander cleverly decided to shoot at him from a cannon loaded to defeat another target.
                        The Syrians inflated this legend even more. First, the plane was shot down. And not Arabic, but Hel-Avirovsky. And not from a tank, but from a helicopter attacking the Merkava, which was attacked by the insidious Phantoms caused by cowardly Jews.
                        But Soviet / Russian military historians went farthest, deciding that there was no need to feel sorry for the adversaries and came up with the following:
                        The Syrian Air Force pilot on a Mi-24V helicopter, who began combat work on the positions of the Israeli armored vehicles, performed the task in the usual mode for combat aviation, until the Israelis called in a pair of Phantom fighters for help.

                        The fighters included in the air-to-air missile area gave themselves out as radar emitters, and the Mi-24V, as if in a Hollywood movie, made a sharp turn and literally “on the go” captured Israeli aircraft and launched missiles. The first R-60 hit the front hemisphere of the Israeli fighter, and the second landed in the left wing area of ​​the led fighter of the Israeli Air Force. The unusual aerial victory of the Mi-24V over the Phantoms was the first air clash in aviation history when a combat attack helicopter was able to defeat two supersonic fighters at once.

                        fellow
                      2. +4
                        18 June 2021 11: 13
                        Hmmm, so laugh after that at the writers of "Rambo". request
                      3. +2
                        18 June 2021 11: 17
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        and came up with the following:
                        Pilot of the Syrian Air Force on a Mi-24V helicopter,

                        already ridiculous) Did Assad Sr. have anything other than gazelles and Mi-8s during the Lebanese war?
                      4. +2
                        18 June 2021 11: 49
                        There was no, of course))
      2. +4
        18 June 2021 09: 39
        Is Minimi unreliable?
        1. +3
          18 June 2021 09: 44
          I did not shoot with it, but those who used it praised it, and besides, no one will release a deliberate drak under licenses. In general, M60 and "Minimi" are machine guns of different classes and purposes, which you, in fact, know without my explanations. soldier
          1. +3
            18 June 2021 09: 57
            I did not hold the Mini and M60 in my hands and did not see it live.
            Yuzal EfEn Mag, saw the Negev. soldier
            1. +5
              18 June 2021 10: 04
              Here, I overexposed the Germans, Czechs, British and Americans and even a Dane in my hands, and I fired only from the SGMT, DShKM, and our regimental intelligence gave me a line from the RPD. Truncated. request
              1. +4
                18 June 2021 10: 07
                And I also saw Browning M2 and even how they shoot from it, grossly violating the ban on firing at the illuminated windows of Rafah laughing
                1. +5
                  18 June 2021 10: 16
                  I saw the M2 at the gunsmiths in the workshop at Mosfilm, they had already disassembled it by the time I came to visit, but there was a hitch with the assembly, there were no instructions. But after a cursory inspection, I somehow quickly managed to assemble it, and the mechanism started working. After that, the peasants finally recognized me as their own. But of course, there was no question of shooting, just as there were no cartridges for it.
                  And Rafah, what's this?
                  1. +2
                    18 June 2021 11: 49
                    City on the border of the Gaza Strip and Egypt
                    1. +3
                      18 June 2021 11: 57
                      This is the kind of fun the people used to shoot from the M2? laughing
                      1. +4
                        18 June 2021 12: 12
                        When our fortification was fired upon, it was not allowed to fire at the illuminated windows in response. And since it is not visible who is shooting, two or three reservists had night vision devices (beginning of the XNUMXs), then they flicked right through the illuminated windows, cars and nooks and crannies of corner houses, if there was an opportunity
                      2. +3
                        18 June 2021 12: 22
                        And how did you manage to get the results?
                        We only had night vision devices for night driving, I tried it once - I didn't like it, some kind of green dregs. But that was when it happened.
                      3. +2
                        18 June 2021 12: 28
                        I have no idea - Ambulances came, but the Palestinians use them, incl. for the delivery of ammunition.
                        Judging by the 1973 war, the USSR already had night vision devices - tank sights
                      4. +4
                        18 June 2021 12: 33
                        We, on the T-54, in the regiment, had night sights only on the vehicles of the battalion commander and the regiment commander, and we fired from our own at night only sticking our muzzle out of the commander's hatch.
                        But on the T-55 and T-62 night sights were on all "without exception", this is for 1966.
                      5. +3
                        18 June 2021 12: 49
                        Well, the Syrians used the T-55 and T-62
                      6. +5
                        18 June 2021 12: 54
                        I know. And the T-55 is an excellent car, we were in training and learned from it, fired a couple of times from a sixty-two, but this car seemed to me clumsy compared to a half-five.
                      7. +1
                        18 June 2021 13: 10
                        The Israelis write that both cars are cool, but cramped for the crew.
                      8. +5
                        18 June 2021 13: 13
                        Yes, this is not a thirty-four or even an IP.

                        Winter exercises - "I carry everything with me", the stove is not the second car, well, just a gypsy camp, damn it. laughing
                      9. +2
                        18 June 2021 13: 16
                        Now the phrase "what is the main thing not to do in the tank" is revealed to me in all its glory fellow
                      10. +2
                        18 June 2021 13: 33
                        What they really didn't do was they didn't take the girls there. laughing
                      11. +1
                        18 June 2021 14: 11
                        And in vain - in the dark, but not offended fellow
                      12. +2
                        18 June 2021 14: 13
                        Why in the dark? There was also a backlight. And in the dark it is inhumane, without a headset, to plant your head down to blood, as there is nothing to do. soldier
                      13. +3
                        18 June 2021 14: 19
                        In the dark and crowded it is not humane to plant in the wrong place! soldier
                      14. +3
                        18 June 2021 15: 55
                        Always you, Albert, will change everything from sweet romance into rough physiology. Although you will take something from the doctor. request
                      15. +1
                        18 June 2021 16: 42
                        I am not a doctor - I am a huckster who makes money on a person's natural desire to get to the best doctor)).
                        The question is, where are the tanks and where is the romance? request laughing
                      16. +2
                        18 June 2021 16: 46
                        Ask Anton. wink
                      17. +1
                        18 June 2021 17: 25
                        Anton - where are the tanks and where is the romance? request
                      18. +1
                        18 June 2021 17: 26
                        Sir, put on your pensne. drinks
                      19. +1
                        18 June 2021 17: 50
                        Well, if Sherman is in Hawaii, it's not like serving in the tank forces laughing
                      20. +3
                        18 June 2021 18: 16
                        So that's the romance, to ride a Sherman in Hawaii, I'm already silent for the girls. There is no sparkling flight of dreamy thoughts in you, dear comrade Albert. And if all of our company, yes with barrels of rum ... Eh, what, can’t dream? fellow drinks
                      21. +1
                        18 June 2021 19: 44
                        drinks Tonga why not Vegas? laughing
                      22. +3
                        18 June 2021 19: 48
                        I'm tired of urbanism, I'm completely numb here. And in general, you need to be closer to nature. drinks Yes
                      23. +2
                        18 June 2021 20: 48
                        Venus Ostrovskaya? ))
                      24. +1
                        19 June 2021 07: 22
                        "Venus is not Venus, but there is definitely something venereal in her." (C) wink
                      25. +1
                        19 June 2021 12: 13
                        And definitely a positive one. Like Wasserman's reaction
                      26. +3
                        19 June 2021 05: 55
                        “Let me draw you,
                        Or I blind you from clay ”(c).
                      27. +2
                        19 June 2021 06: 53
                        "I blinded him from what was" (c)
                      28. +2
                        18 June 2021 20: 03
                        In my opinion, Vegas is the size of Eilat. Only higher.
                      29. +1
                        18 June 2021 20: 48
                        A lot more ))
                      30. +2
                        18 June 2021 18: 56
                        Helicopters are the souls of dead tanks.
                      31. +1
                        18 June 2021 19: 45
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        Helicopters are the souls of dead tanks.

                        A bad tank that does not dream of becoming a helicopter fellow
                      32. +2
                        18 June 2021 19: 57
                        "I can make a queen out of a woman,
                        I can make a helicopter out of a girl "(c) laughing
                      33. +1
                        18 June 2021 20: 50
                        A bell from the boy. Ask Nikolay to see about Covid's treatment in India laughing
                      34. +2
                        19 June 2021 07: 23
                        Bell boy


                        M ... dialer?
                      35. +1
                        19 June 2021 12: 15
                        Exactly Yes
                      36. +2
                        18 June 2021 19: 59
                        And what is very beautiful. smile soldier
                      37. +2
                        18 June 2021 20: 05
                        It's a pity I didn't come up with it.
                      38. +2
                        18 June 2021 20: 08
                        I wonder where from?
                      39. +2
                        18 June 2021 20: 10
                        I don’t know, I heard about 20 years ago, maybe in the first Chechen one who came up with it? ...
                      40. +2
                        18 June 2021 20: 25
                        Most likely - yes, Chechnya or Afghan.
                      41. Alf
                        +2
                        18 June 2021 19: 07
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        In the dark and crowded it is not humane to plant in the wrong place! soldier

                        Not "not there", but "not that" ..
                      42. +1
                        18 June 2021 19: 46
                        It's even tougher laughing
                      43. Alf
                        +2
                        18 June 2021 19: 48
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        It's even tougher laughing

                        When the light was turned on, the commander turned out to be "this" ... With all the ensuing consequences ... laughing
                      44. +2
                        18 June 2021 19: 58
                        If the corps commander, then even worse. laughing
                      45. Alf
                        +2
                        18 June 2021 20: 00
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        If the corps commander, then even worse. laughing

                        And what is a corps commander to do in a tank? And he won't fit in there ... The hatch is of standard dimensions ...
                      46. +2
                        18 June 2021 20: 02
                        And who can say why he climbed there? laughing wink
                      47. Alf
                        +2
                        18 June 2021 20: 09
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        And who can say why he climbed there? laughing wink

                        To make a sudden unfriendly visit from ... love everyone he sees. Did you come in vain?
                        Only, I'm afraid the picture will come out like with Winnie the Pooh at dinner at the Rabbit's.
                      48. -1
                        18 June 2021 20: 46
                        So the following Yes
                      49. +3
                        18 June 2021 14: 42
                        What they really didn't do was they didn't take the girls there.

                        Not true.
                      50. +4
                        18 June 2021 15: 56
                        Well, if only just a little and not me. recourse
                      51. +3
                        18 June 2021 17: 07
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        The Israelis write that both cars are cool, but cramped for the crew.

                        They lie, however. Even in winter overalls there are plenty of places. But now at 72, for example, yes, it seems a bit crowded after 62.
                      52. 0
                        18 June 2021 17: 26
                        Quote: Doliva63
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        The Israelis write that both cars are cool, but cramped for the crew.

                        They lie, however. Even in winter overalls there are plenty of places. But now at 72, for example, yes, it seems a bit crowded after 62.

                        Probably compared with Centurions and M 48/60 request
                      53. +2
                        18 June 2021 17: 47
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Quote: Doliva63
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        The Israelis write that both cars are cool, but cramped for the crew.

                        They lie, however. Even in winter overalls there are plenty of places. But now at 72, for example, yes, it seems a bit crowded after 62.

                        Probably compared with Centurions and M 48/60 request

                        Did they compare them in winter overalls? laughing
                      54. +1
                        18 June 2021 17: 51
                        Yes, even in summer it was cramped for them, but in the Anglo-Saxons it was spacious))
                      55. +1
                        18 June 2021 21: 30
                        Hrenase! They must have stuffed a refrigerator, a microwave oven and a parade rack in there? Well, then of course! laughing
                      56. +1
                        18 June 2021 23: 42
                        No, they say that it is easier to work - to charge there, take a nap, and so on. I am far from all this - I have no idea in tank affairs request
                      57. +2
                        19 June 2021 16: 12
                        Lazy just laughing I spent 4 years in Soviet tanks, everything was quite ergonomic. True, as usual, in winter it was cold in them, in summer it was hot, respectively. There was a time, the overalls were electrically heated - sat down, stuck the plug into the socket, it's warm, damn it! But then it was removed too. And it was very convenient to load the gun, let them not lie! Well, some skill is needed, of course laughing
                      58. +1
                        19 June 2021 16: 36
                        It's cool with an outlet - in the Merkavas, some kind of pipe is attached to the overalls - like a personal air conditioner)))
                      59. +1
                        19 June 2021 19: 08
                        There was no air conditioning, yeah (. But the sockets remained, some plugged a portable fan into them laughing And to be honest, in my youth, no "nuances" interfered.
                      60. +2
                        19 June 2021 20: 07
                        I remember one thing about tanks - I saw a "combined arms exercise" when the infantry walked knee-deep in the mud, and the tankers calmly drove by. But then the infantrymen ran to the shower and changed their uniforms, and the tankers cleaned the tracks and the chassis)).
                        This is all that I needed to understand about the difference between the types of troops. laughing
                      61. +2
                        19 June 2021 20: 38
                        Where have you seen this ?! The infantry cannot be driven out of the BMP into the mud! laughing (a joke of humor, of course) And the tankers just doused the tanks with a hose, and also into the shower. Detailed cleaning - in PCBs, sort of.
                      62. +1
                        19 June 2021 22: 37
                        Video once - in the Israeli reservist brigade))
                        Caterpillars cleaned
                      63. +1
                        20 June 2021 16: 55
                        It is clear, in a short time, the reservists tried to remind the service laughing But this is not the case in life.
                      64. 0
                        21 June 2021 11: 51
                        There is an annual reserve - a month a year. In urgent terms - I don't know, the tankers were always complaining. They complained and were proud of the firepower (like one tank = an infantry company), they were proud, and then they complained - they live practically in a tank, going home bad (the Israeli infantry has about once every two weeks, these cheto have worse, I don't remember exactly), in free time they lick the tank, and after having licked the tank, they learn new things laughing
                      65. +1
                        21 June 2021 20: 59
                        In peacetime, serving in tanks is good. No RTU running along the hills, no digging trenches in full profile. Wash the car with a hose - nonsense! But when you crawl out onto the battlefield and when it seems to you that all the PTSs of the planet are looking at you in sight - then yes, it is better to join the infantry! laughing
                      66. +1
                        22 June 2021 08: 25
                        I do not know. During the Second Lebanese infantry killed more than three times than tankers.
                      67. +1
                        22 June 2021 16: 18
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        I do not know. During the Second Lebanese infantry killed more than three times than tankers.

                        This is natural, because there are fewer tankers than infantry. An example is the GSVG, the largest group in the world after the war, at the worst of times had more than 500 personnel, but of them there were just over 000 tankers.
                      68. +1
                        22 June 2021 17: 16
                        Yes, but you do not take into account that during the offensive it is the tanks that attract the fire)).
                      69. +1
                        22 June 2021 17: 26
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Yes, but you do not take into account that during the offensive it is the tanks that attract the fire)).

                        This is subjective, as I told you earlier laughing
                      70. +1
                        22 June 2021 18: 54
                        And the tank is also noticeable laughing
                      71. +1
                        22 June 2021 20: 51
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        And the tank is also noticeable laughing

                        It depends on how to fight. If in front of tanks with infantry artillery creates a barrage, and planes / helicopters hang from above, then not very laughing The "deep operation" tactic is a genius idea for all time.
                      72. +1
                        22 June 2021 21: 06
                        It's about superpowers. At the eleventh minute of such an operation on the part of Israel, all progressive humanity will demand an extraordinary convocation of the UN General Assembly at an urgently opened meeting of the Security Council laughing Zionism will again be equated with a form of rapeseed discrimination and infringement of the rights of black babies from mixed Palestinian-pygmy marriages of convenience fellow
                      73. +1
                        22 June 2021 21: 21
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        It's about superpowers. At the eleventh minute of such an operation on the part of Israel, all progressive humanity will demand an extraordinary convocation of the UN General Assembly at an urgently opened meeting of the Security Council laughing Zionism will again be equated with a form of rapeseed discrimination and infringement of the rights of black babies from mixed Palestinian-pygmy marriages of convenience fellow

                        Well no. I disagree. Even a point conflict can be resolved in this way. But for this you need to have an appropriately equipped army, although it is very expensive. Is it too tough for Israel? laughing But I agree that Israel simply does not need to contain an analogue of the GSVG, tk. "local showdowns" are not worth it.
                      74. 0
                        22 June 2021 22: 15
                        For a point operation, there is such a thing, and even in excess. That's only on the condition that:
                        a) this will happen in the desert outside the building
                        b) will be expedient, since no one has been doing a solid front line for a long time
                        hi
                      75. +6
                        18 June 2021 12: 29
                        "The Israeli military,
                        Known all over the world!
                        As a mother I speak and as a woman,
                        I demand them to answer! "(C)
                      76. +5
                        18 June 2021 12: 53
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        "The Israeli military,
                        Known all over the world!
                        As a mother I speak and as a woman,
                        I demand them to answer! "(C)

                      77. +6
                        18 June 2021 13: 08
                        Newton's fifth law says: "Any body, launched into space, flies where? Right, to the ereny mother." There is not a word about women. request
                        In general, if they launch it, then an astronaut, if it’s Soviet, then champagne, if the military, then it’s Israeli. request drinks
                2. +5
                  18 June 2021 12: 39
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  And I also saw Browning M2 and even how they shoot from it, grossly violating the ban on firing at the illuminated windows of Rafah laughing

                  Out of the 50th in the windows of peace-premium Palestinians? Eh you ...
                  1. +1
                    18 June 2021 13: 11
                    Over the Arab peaceful hut, the patched siskin flies meanly negative
                    1. +2
                      18 June 2021 13: 28
                      But Chigrakov doesn't know!
                      1. +1
                        18 June 2021 13: 30
                        Greetings Anton! hi
                        But the Arabs remember everything feel
                      2. +2
                        18 June 2021 13: 47
                        Uh-huh. For more than 70 years, everyone has been remembered and remembered. Maiden memory, apparently ...
                        Hi Albert!
                      3. +1
                        18 June 2021 14: 13
                        Siskin, they say, led by the Chief Antichrist Chigrakov (nee May Plesetsky-Akhidzhakov) took away from us the primordially Arab Judea. negative
                      4. +2
                        18 June 2021 13: 32
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        But Chigrakov doesn't know!

                        "In the closet beyond the Gaza Strip ..."
                        ))
                      5. +3
                        18 June 2021 13: 49
                        That not only Makarevich and Rosenbaum?!?! belay
                        Oh yes! He's from Odessa.
                      6. +2
                        18 June 2021 14: 15
                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        But Chigrakov doesn't know!

                        "In the closet beyond the Gaza Strip ..."
                        ))

                        Anthem of the Gaza Strip:
                        Oh, you are my, vigorous louse!
                        Why are you gnawing at me like that?
                        To calm this louse at least a little
                        And I'll take it there too, and I'll scratch it!
                        Oh you are my, vigorous louse
                        I will make a brawl for your mistress!
                        Who gave me this louse
                        I'll put out that friend ah!
  4. +13
    18 June 2021 08: 07
    To understand the contribution of the pilots, it is worth noting that in just 8 years, only six fighters from the MACV-SOG were awarded the Medal of Honor.
    To understand the contribution of the pilots, it is worth noting that only 18 people from the personnel of the US Air Force have been awarded this award in the entire history of the branch of the military.
    1. +14
      18 June 2021 08: 53
      Hi, hello. hi
      I advise you to read, if you have not read it yet, the book "Chicken and a Hawk" by Robert Mason.

      These are the memories of an American military helicopter pilot of the war in
      Vietnam instantly became a national bestseller in the United States, but,
      as far as I know, they have not yet been translated into Russian. One of
      best books about the Vietnam war. Some people think that simply
      the best.
      From the author
      This is my own story about what I saw in Vietnam ...

      1. +8
        18 June 2021 09: 03
        Thank you, Uncle Kostya. I will add it to the list.
        1. +8
          18 June 2021 09: 24
          Please. smile
          My son fitted me in and I read the book excitedly, no fiction is suitable for her to hold a candle. good
          1. +9
            18 June 2021 10: 54
            Quote: Sea Cat
            read the book avidly

            Likewise! Here is a link specifically for Аnton, there is no cuts and no censorship.https: //www.litmir.me/br/? B = 257233 & p = 1
            1. +5
              18 June 2021 12: 27
              Thank you, Serge!
          2. Alf
            +1
            18 June 2021 19: 11
            Quote: Sea Cat
            Please. smile
            My son fitted me in and I read the book excitedly, no fiction is suitable for her to hold a candle. good

            Konstantin ! Today is not your day, all your conversations are minus some kind of female dog, everything in a row, without disassembling.
            1. +1
              18 June 2021 19: 21
              Vasily, hello! hi
              Yes, God bless her, with a female dog, somehow casually kicked a mongrel mongrel, got it out with her yapping, and now, out of anger and trying to shit on every corner. Whatever you take from her, she still can't read, that's why he crap in all the "bowls" in a row. laughing
              There are several of them here, with an inferiority complex, no one pays attention to them, they didn’t do the weather on the site, they don’t do it and will not do it, so they will spoil the little things. drinks
              1. Alf
                +1
                18 June 2021 19: 23
                Quote: Sea Cat
                Vasily, hello!

                Good evening ! It's a pity, I can't figure it out, it's encrypted all the time, but I'll catch it anyway.
                1. +1
                  18 June 2021 19: 56
                  Boots, rubber gloves and certainly an effective personal breathing device, otherwise the Ministry of Health will be powerless. And it is better to shoot at once, and an explosive bullet, like that pig from Paustovsky, other ammunition will not take it. laughing
                  1. Alf
                    +1
                    18 June 2021 19: 58
                    Quote: Sea Cat
                    other ammunition will not take it.

                    Let's take it, because we are Russians, there are no impossible tasks for us!
                    1. +1
                      18 June 2021 20: 00
                      With all my heart with you! smile drinks
  5. +6
    18 June 2021 09: 38
    Helicopters have become one of the symbols of the Vietnam War.


    Air Cavalry.

    (Coppola "Apocalypse of the twentieth century")
    1. +4
      18 June 2021 09: 53
      Quote: Sea Cat
      Air Cavalry.


      (Coppola "Apocalypse of the twentieth century")

      No, it must be with sound))
      "I am now working with Wagner .." (c)
      1. +4
        18 June 2021 09: 59
        Unfortunately, I can't do it with sound, try it yourself. And under Wagner, a very impressive attack scene, I like to revise. smile
        1. +4
          18 June 2021 10: 07
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Unfortunately, I can't do it with sound, try it yourself.


          classic in every sense)
          1. +4
            18 June 2021 10: 17
            Here. This is what you need! good
            1. +2
              18 June 2021 12: 13
              "I love the smell of napalm in the morning" (c) fellow
        2. +4
          18 June 2021 10: 16
          Konstantin!
          Have you heard "March of Fighting Cats"?
          Dedicated to the unit described in The Underworld Boy.
          1. +4
            18 June 2021 10: 18
            No, I didn’t hear the march, but of course I read the book.
            1. +3
              18 June 2021 10: 26
              So listen to the march.
              On the Internet, it is performed and just a text.
              There are two texts.
              One 1986 another 1989.
              1. +2
                18 June 2021 11: 09
                Thank you, I will find and listen. smile
  6. +6
    18 June 2021 09: 38
    Despite all of the above, one hell, the Americans left Vietnam, and the Ho Chi Minh trail was never destroyed, no matter how hard they tried.
    1. +3
      18 June 2021 11: 45
      The factor of support from the USSR and the PRC joined together. And my own, Vietnamese, determination to fight until Victory!
      1. 0
        18 June 2021 11: 49
        Quote: hohol95
        The factor of support from the USSR and the PRC joined together.

        There was no special help from the PRC there. This is not the Korean War.
        1. +2
          18 June 2021 11: 52
          Did the North Vietnamese have T-63 tanks from dampness like mold?
          It is clear that the "volunteers" were no longer sent. But he was not at all "sitting in the house of neutrality."
          1. +4
            18 June 2021 12: 32
            I agree, flared up. In no way offended the Chinese comrades. I'm sorry.
    2. +3
      18 June 2021 13: 33
      Despite all of the above, one hell, the Americans left Vietnam, and the Ho Chi Minh trail was never destroyed, no matter how hard they tried.

      The term "Ho Chi Minh trail" itself has a purely American origin. In North Vietnam, it was called the "Truong Son Trail" (Vietnamese Đường Tr )ng Sơn), after the Truong Son mountain range, which stretches along the western border of the country from north to south.
  7. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +3
      18 June 2021 11: 21
      They will not hear you, they are watching you. laughing This is their main function.
      1. +3
        18 June 2021 11: 43
        Either my back is itching - mentally, "arrows are thrown at me" and "needles are being stuck"! drinks
        The main thing is not to lose sight of the "vigil" ... good
    3. +5
      18 June 2021 11: 47
      Quote: hohol95
      Hey! Secret "miners"! Come out of the gloom and express your own thoughts !!!

      Strange somehow ... Where are the denunciators of the bloody American military with their cribs? Until now, no one "Ukrainian natsYstov" and Donbass has pulled the ears here ... Where are they all? Are they showing them something interesting on Channel One?
      1. +4
        18 June 2021 11: 49
        Quiet...
        Or call it ...
        belay belay belay
      2. +5
        18 June 2021 12: 25
        "Heavy smog enveloped Washington,
        It's not fun to live without work,
        In the concrete jungle of ghostly freedom
        Where the CIA and the Pentagon rule.
        Among the capitalists of these countries,
        The frenzy of military psychosis is growing
        They frighten with the "red threat"
        Deceived workers and peasants "(C)
        1. +2
          18 June 2021 12: 27
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          "Heavy smog enveloped Washington,
          It's not fun to live without work,
          In the concrete jungle of ghostly freedom
          Where the CIA and the Pentagon rule.
          Among the capitalists of these countries,
          The frenzy of military psychosis is growing
          They frighten with the "red threat"
          Deceived workers and peasants "(C)

      3. +4
        18 June 2021 13: 37
        Where are the denunciators of the bloody American military
        The "news" contains two articles about Britain. Busy laughing
        1. +5
          18 June 2021 13: 38
          Quote: Bolt Cutter
          The "news" contains two articles about Britain. Busy

          tear all enemies to the Union Jack? laughing
          1. +5
            18 June 2021 13: 39
            To the Soviet "quality mark" Yes
            1. +2
              18 June 2021 17: 55
              Okay, sho not on Magen David ...
  8. +1
    18 June 2021 18: 17
    Author:
    Yuferev Sergey
    Interesting facts about the special forces MACV-SOG
    .....
    The study of the experience of their combat use in the eight-year period of the war from 1964 to 1972 became an incentive for the further development of similar units in the United States and laid the seedlings from which the US Special Operations Command (SOCOM) would later grow.

    The facts are interesting, especially for those who did not know the history of the Vietnam War, but the author did not take into account that we also learned something from the operations of this special unit.
    In particular, the Americans used VHF radio stations to organize communication with this unit, despite the fact that their range was limited. They solved this problem by launching VHF radio repeaters on balloons, which could be launched both by the reconnaissance group itself and by other structures of the US Army, which made it possible to maintain stable communication on routes up to 500 km or more. Due to the fact that it is almost impossible to find VHF transmitters due to multipath and multiple reflections, especially in wooded areas, mountains and in the jungle, the American special forces received a stable communication channel with their command, which made it easier for them to perform tasks. The only inconvenience was that it was necessary to track the prevailing air flows and the repeaters had a limited operating life. Naturally, their radio stations worked in the same range with helicopters and aircraft of the US Air Force, which also improved interaction in adjusting fire and during the evacuation of units. We took this experience into account, and as I know, balloon repeaters were in service with the Soviet Army, moreover, even the KGB was closely involved in this issue.
    1. 0
      19 June 2021 19: 49
      on balloons that could be launched by the reconnaissance group itself,


      The reconnaissance group launched the ball rather for reasons of camouflage or urgency, otherwise it could wait until it heard the ball already launched by the signalmen (that is, the radio channel was not established) - it was necessary either to urgently "broadcast" from somewhere in the lowlands or to communicate imperceptibly and the ball tied with a cord is visible to the enemy may not fly higher than a hill. And a radio operator untethered 200 m above a soldier-radio operator will give a radius of tens of kilometers of radio visibility, within which no one can be found quickly, so you can let him fly away and only then, after half an hour, start transmitting. In any case, this was suggested by the calculation on a calculator (https://r1ban.ru/calc/loss-calc-dist.htm). But all the other radio balls and planes in the chain were just repeaters.

      Frequency, MHz: 15
      Base antenna height, m: 200
      Mobile antenna height, m: 2
      Attenuation, dB: (autocalculate)
      Distance, km: line of sight: 55.54 km
      Transmitter power 33 dBm 2 W
      K. Antenna gain prd 3dBi
      Loss in AFU transmitter 3 dB
      EIRP of transmitter 33 dBm 1.995 W
      Receiver sensitivity -113 dBm 0.5 μV
      K. Antenna gain prm 0 dBi
      Loss in the receiver AFU 1 dB
      1. 0
        20 June 2021 10: 38
        Quote: ycuce234-san
        The reconnaissance group launched the balloon rather for reasons of camouflage or urgency, otherwise it could wait until it heard the balloon already launched by the signalmen (that is, the radio channel was not established) - it was necessary either to urgently "broadcast" from somewhere in the lowlands or to communicate imperceptibly, and the ball tied with a cord is visible to the enemy and may not fly higher than a hill.

        There, no one tied the balloon, because it took off like an ordinary meteorological probe to a height of several kilometers and then began to work as a repeater. Some of the probes were attached to tape recorders with a special recording and they were turned on only at certain altitudes, but that was when it was necessary to transmit a large amount of information urgently. In such cases, the reconnaissance group did not even get in touch, i.e. did not unmask herself on air.
        Quote: ycuce234-san
        In any case, it was suggested by the calculation on the calculator.

        The calculation on the calculator is made for ordinary parts, which is why you have a range of 50 km. And these units were often many hundreds of kilometers from their bases, which is why they used such a scheme for organizing communications on long-distance routes, abandoning HF radio stations.
        1. 0
          20 June 2021 11: 14
          They most likely communicated through repeaters on high-altitude repeater balloons hung by signalmen and aviation. That is, 50 km of range is needed to unnoticeably look out of the terrain and connect to the radio network. For this, these balls, low-altitude and easily carried by soldiers, were used. And it is very difficult to search for experienced soldiers in the jungle dozens of kilometers from the ball that flew out of the forest - their opponents did not have advanced thermal imaging and radar equipment. Even to let the Vietnamese track the dog, they first had to find him.
          1. 0
            20 June 2021 15: 32
            Quote: ycuce234-san
            They most likely communicated through repeaters on high-altitude repeater balloons hung by signalmen and aviation.

            Maybe so, I will not dispute, but the communication range is embarrassing - such units either work on HF radio stations, or are obliged to raise the VHF repeater very high due to the specifics of their actions. Let me remind you that our reconnaissance units could work on routes from 1,5 to 4 thousand km, but of course only on HF radio stations. And 50 km is not a range at all for them ...
            1. 0
              20 June 2021 15: 50
              The repeater is not obliged to transmit on the same frequencies as the apparatus in the hands of the soldier on the ground.
              A repeater is an automatic radio station that listens to the broadcast on one frequency and repeats "what has been heard" on another, quite often. And so it can be selected based on maximizing the communication range. Therefore, the balloons could have both HF and SV stations, and the information itself passed through a chain of such repeaters in the radio network.
              1. 0
                20 June 2021 16: 47
                Quote: ycuce234-san
                Therefore, the balls could have KV

                Why do you need such a HF repeater for 50 km, even if they work with a direct wave at such distances?
                Quote: ycuce234-san
                A repeater is an automatic radio station that listens to the broadcast on one frequency and repeats "what has been heard" on another, quite often.

                This is all understandable, but it is not clear how at an altitude of 200 meters you will provide a range of 500 km or more, and even through the territory occupied by the enemy, where you will not be able to land people with other repeaters.
                1. 0
                  20 June 2021 20: 37
                  A range of 50 km is needed to reach the first repeater in the chain, and the network itself provides the range.
                  The Vietnamese were then very low-tech opponents, like modern Afghans, and for them, without foreign weapons, these balls were inaccessible. And the weapons of foreign allies were in acute shortage and they were spent on airplanes, helicopters (millions of dollars), and not on penny balloons (tens and hundreds of dollars) - information about the massive struggle of the Vietnamese with a foreign radio network was not preserved in our skies.

                  Now this trick could be repeated now by the Syrian or Afghan governments. They could buy factories for the production of cheap weather balloons and use these factories for the production of balloons with observation and communication systems (radio direction finders, optics, repeaters) to control the territory of the country. This is much cheaper than drones, and balloons that have flown to friendly countries can be returned and reused - as happens with weather balloons.
                  1. 0
                    21 June 2021 11: 09
                    Quote: ycuce234-san
                    A range of 50 km is needed to reach the first repeater in the chain, and the network itself provides the range.

                    Is there such a network even across enemy territory? Something I do not believe in it.
                    Quote: ycuce234-san
                    and not for penny balloons (tens and hundreds of dollars) - information about the mass struggle of the Vietnamese with a foreign radio network in their skies has not been preserved.

                    Penny balloons made it possible to reduce the cost of a communication system for special forces. But the most important thing was the energy sources, which is why they tried to use them, and not HF radio stations.
                    Quote: ycuce234-san
                    Now this trick could be repeated now by the Syrian or Afghan governments. They could buy factories for the production of cheap weather balloons and use these factories for the production of balloons with observation and communication systems (radio direction finders, optics, repeaters) to control the territory of the country.

                    Why do they need it now, if they can work around the clock via satellite?
                    Quote: ycuce234-san
                    This is much cheaper than drones, and balloons that have flown to friendly countries can be returned and reused - as happens with weather balloons.

                    This is not entirely true, because the probes rise above 10 km and where they will fly in a couple of days is even difficult to predict, especially when it comes to hard-to-reach areas.
                    1. 0
                      21 June 2021 12: 15
                      "Is there such a network even across enemy territory? I can't believe it."
                      Meteorological balloons, for example, regularly reach 40 km - the then Vietnamese did not have such air defense to reach such a ball. Yes, and it would be inconceivable expensive - it would be easier to interfere with interference, but even here the Americans were head and shoulders above in radio technology, in electronic warfare and could fight against ground jamming by bombing. Therefore, the balloon radio network over a technologically undeveloped enemy feels quite well.
                      Own satellites are expensive for poor countries so far and there is no money for them and there will not be for many decades - stratospheric balloons can be and are mass-produced for meteorologists. There are firms that convert ordinary household photo and video cameras into infrared, produce infrared films and custom-made plastic "photomill", there are new produced polaroid cameras, cartridges for Polaroids of all models, cartridges, Polaroid film - it is cheaper to buy high-precision satellite meteorological information and pay for labor meteorological specialists, launch balloons with a polaroid during the day in the right quantities and from the right directions and at night with an infrared film camera and drop material in the right places with a radio beacon. If you broadcast from the board, it will be a little more expensive - but you can not dump the equipment, recharge the batteries from solar panels, use balls that have been in use for a long time. The price of the issue is five hundred dollars a day, and the result is an understanding of the general situation in the uninhabited, huge and inaccessible mountainous regions of the country, which are virtually uncontrolled. That is why it is good if they fly into such areas - it is not necessary to return them, since even the fuel of the car will be more expensive than buying a new device, and they broadcast the photo-video by radio.
                      1. 0
                        21 June 2021 12: 34
                        Quote: ycuce234-san
                        Therefore, the balloon radio network over a technologically undeveloped enemy feels quite well.

                        I do not argue with this, but I have not heard something about the presence of a balloon network in Vietnam for communication with reconnaissance groups. Can you give a link to information?
                        Quote: ycuce234-san
                        Own satellites are expensive for poor countries so far and there is no money for them and will not be for many decades.

                        Do not be ridiculous - they buy ordinary correspondent satellite communication stations and work as they want through other people's registered satellites. Even Dudayev used this connection until he was banged.
                        Quote: ycuce234-san
                        That is why it is good if they fly into such areas - it is not necessary to return them,

                        I talked about this - reuse is not provided, it is cheaper to use new ones.
                      2. 0
                        21 June 2021 16: 04
                        The mentions themselves in the network of balloon systems of the Vietnamese period are only indirect, like this (since the documents have not yet been laid out in abundance) - https://www.cnews.ru/articles/besprovodnye_seti_na_vysotnyh_dirizhablyah
                        But, since the Americans' drGs in the deep rear of the enemy had exactly VHF communication - then, indirectly judging, they should have been - the planes and helicopters were actively going down, and they would not be on duty unnoticed and unattainable in the air for more than one day over the deep rear of the enemy, in the mode waiting for a signal.
                        But antenna balloons were used even before the WWII era and during the blockade, and it is known that they were used by Soviet troops in Afghanistan, although this experience is now greatly forgotten with rare exceptions, such as American serial military radiostatic systems, radar anti-personnel balloons.
                        You can see the following on the topic from the interesting:
                        https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/19/AR2009081903712.html
                        http://pentagonus.ru/publ/aehrostatnye_sistemy_v_vooruzhjonnykh_silakh_ssha_2012/10-1-0-2329?utm_source=warfiles.ru
                        https://www.airvectors.net/avbloon_3.html
                        Doowon Kim "A Survey of Balloon Networking Applications and Technologies" https://www.cse.wustl.edu/~jain/cse570-13/ftp/balloonn/index.html
                        https://blockade.spb.ru/article/govorit-leningrad/

                        And about the purchased communications and radio direction finding - this is only one side of the issue. Communication via satellite can be bought, but with balloon infrared aerial reconnaissance on disposable devices, VHF direction finding in the folds of the terrain, it is more difficult - there are no ready-made companies with such products yet, they would have to create or pay for custom development and production with cooperation in order to get this control over mountains for minimal funds. In the conditions of Afghanistan, balloons were in demand by both Soviet and American troops.