Defense Ministry seeks anti-submarine drone

The Russian Ministry of Defense intends to adopt a special anti-submarine drone in the near future. According to Izvestia, citing sources, the military department is studying potential platforms for creating a specialized apparatus.

According to the publication, the Ministry of Defense is currently choosing a project to create drone for the Navy and the control system for it. In the future, this will have to be a medium or heavy class vehicle equipped with submarine search tools, as well as weapons capable of hitting submarines. In addition, the drone must be able to integrate into a single network with other vehicles.

It is planned that the drone can be launched both from ground airfields and from ships.

Earlier it was reported that the Russian Navy will receive a naval version of the newest Russian drone "Altius". At the same time, it is noted that the drone is planned to be used both for reconnaissance and for striking. According to the plans of the sailors, two versions will be created - reconnaissance and shock. The main weapons the shock version will be an anti-ship missile, most likely - X35.

The Ministry of Defense explained that the Russian Navy had a rather difficult situation with intelligence aviation - it is practically nonexistent. During the Soviet Union, the USSR Navy had a large number of Tu-16R and Tu-95RT reconnaissance aircraft in service, which conducted reconnaissance over almost the entire water area of ​​the World Ocean. At present, reconnaissance is quite difficult, and the adoption of Altius UAV will be able to solve this problem, since its characteristics allow reconnaissance around the clock over a long distance.

Comments

[lucul]

The Ministry of Defense explained that a rather difficult situation with reconnaissance aircraft has developed in the Russian Navy - it is practically nonexistent.

Well, solve the problem - and you have the means and the desire for this, the main thing is not to spare money.

[Maz]

Well, thank God, the ice has broken. And we are used to catching up. Let's break through.

[Monster_Fat]

in future

"Julitta is going, someday will be" ...

[Volga073]

The traders will plunder ..

[gig334]

As always, there are no funds, they went to the tiles for Sobyanin.

[barclay]

The Ministry of Defense explained that a rather difficult situation with reconnaissance aircraft has developed in the Russian Navy - it is practically nonexistent.
Now we have survived ... If we had set up production, then this is one of the areas of application for the Be-200.

[Vladimir61]

Quote: barclay

If we had set up production, then this is one of the areas of application for the Be-200.

That has already been planned for this year, by order of the Ministry of Defense, testing the BE-200 in the Arctic. But, drones are a cheaper and possibly more efficient unit.

[barclay]

I agree that it is cheaper. And robotization is a universal trend. But it would be better to have both.

[Insurgent]

Quote: barclay

I agree that it is cheaper.

Controversial statement, very controversial.
Especially considering that the Altius-class UAV, having on board a satellite communication (control) system, an onboard radar, an optoelectronic system and a lot of robotic subsystems + specific devices for detecting and tracking and targeting submarines, is not cheap itself, but if consider what else is included in complex... Ground control complex, diagnostics and maintenance, training simulator, then the price does not seem small ...

[Gardener91]

Quote: Insurgent

Controversial statement

Add to you the crew listed on board, the price of which is incomparable with anything.

[venik]

Quote: Insurgent

Quote: barclay
I agree that it is cheaper.
Controversial statement, very controversial. ...... the price doesn't seem small.

========
And no one says that the price will be little! She just will just be BELOW! Moreover, it is much lower ...

[Insurgent]

Quote: Vladimir61

drones are a cheaper and possibly more efficient unit

I'm not sure about the price, such UAVs are also expensive, but due to the fact that by creating a grouping of several UAVs that are simultaneously located in the required square, you can effectively monitor the situation in it and quickly respond to it.

And yet - the intention to use the UAV, this is a signal to the "partners" that if their submarines are "in the wrong place", they will be destroyed without unnecessary preludes ...

[antivirus]

again without Aircraft Carriers - the whole country is crying for 100 tons of VI. how to live if Atrid died? and there are no aircraft carriers. just cry.
A DECISION against a submarine with a UAV FOUND.

[Denis Rumyanny]

You can't wash money for a UAV. Kuznetsov is another matter - there will be enough for the grandchildren for a house in London.

[antivirus]

the issue in the Big privatization of the 89s - many people did not recognize it and bankrupt the oligarchs - a dream, in order to get around in the Forbes list

[Bez 310]

Quote: barclay

this is one of the areas of application for the Be-200.

And what is the range of the Be-200?
And why exactly the Be-200?

[venik]

Quote: Bez 310

And what is the range of the Be-200?

========
Maximum range: 3 - 100 km, practical - 3 km.
--------

Quote: Bez 310

And why exactly the Be-200?

=======
There are several reasons why flying boats and amphibians have advantages over "land" machines when working at sea:

1) - Security.
- In the event of an abnormal or emergency situation over land, "the land board has the ability to make an emergency landing at the nearest airfield (and their network is quite dense) or even" in the open field "(there were such situations!). When flying over the ocean - alas NO ! You can only jump with a parachute or splash down for a couple of minutes (to have time to lower the raft and not soak your feet, which is especially important in low temperatures) ... Alas, this is where the luck ends! on time will find a little!
- Possibility of the participation of the patrol-anti-submarine LL or amphibian in search and rescue operations (and not only the search and dropping of rafts, but also the EVACUATION of victims). It seems absurd, but just the timely presence of the Be-200 or A-50 could save most of the Komsomolets nuclear submarine!

2) Hypothetical (or "non-sci-fi":
- the possibility of a temporary interruption of the flight far from the coast (for example, for the action "from an ambush" or separation from the enemy's radar) ...
- the theoretical possibility of using not only traditional means of searching for enemy submarines (onboard radar, RGAB, magnetometer), but also a lowered GAS. Fantastic, but ....

3) Economic
- Beriev Aircraft Company is now not heavily loaded with orders and is quite capable of starting serial production of the Be-200

[D16]

1) - Security.

Somewhere in the Gelendzhik Bay in the summer, he will land on the water, and even take off, but in the northern seas and ocean with his seaworthiness there is nothing to do. This pepelatsa has its own niche tasks, with which it copes well. A patrol, and even more so an anti-submarine aircraft, is worthless.

the presence of a Be-200 or A-50 could have saved most of the Komsomolets nuclear submarine!

Only not A-50, but A-40 ... It was on that day that I could. The excitement was 3 points. But in the overwhelming majority of cases, troubles at sea occur in fresh weather, when LL has no chance of normally splashing down and taking off from the water. Takeoff and landing on the runway with a crosswind is more dangerous for LL than for conventional aircraft due to the large windage. Such is the price for poor seaworthiness.

but also lowered GUS. Fantastic, but ....

Only in very good weather. But when this fool decides to take off from the water in order to take the ASP to the right place, half the ocean will hear about it and take action.

[venik]

As expected, I'll start - from the end!
1) -

Quote: D16

But when this fool decides to take off from the water in order to take the ASP to the right place, half the ocean will hear about it and take action.

========
Well, of course, there will be a lot of "rustle". I agree! But hardly more than from the BOD at full speed ... Although I cannot calculate: there is not enough data. But the main thing here is the SPEED (the exit line of the use of weapons), and, whatever one may say, the airplane is much higher! And besides, it was not in vain that I put this "option" in the "Hypothetical (or" not sci-fi "section: I have never heard of such a practice!
-----------
2) -

Quote: D16

Only not A-50, but A-40 wink.

=========
Of course! "Oskepatalsya".
-----------
3) -

Quote: D16

Somewhere in the Gelendzhik Bay in the summer, he will land on the water, and even take off, but in the northern seas and ocean with his seaworthiness there is nothing to do.

=========
Well, at least he can splash down. And even stay afloat much longer than a land airplane. He will drown in a matter of minutes, if not faster - that's a fact! (Dad checked the Baltic on his own skin.)

[D16]

But the main thing here is the SPEED (the exit line of the use of weapons), and, whatever one may say, the airplane is much higher!

The correct steamer covers the radius of possible detection of the enemy by its own means. And those who cannot do this usually do not work alone. I believe that such a Swiss, a reaper and a player like the Be-200 is not needed, since he does all this equally badly.

And even stay afloat much longer than a land airplane. He will drown in a matter of minutes, if not faster - that's a fact!

And a lot of Il-38 landed on the water? It is better not to bring it to this.

[venik]

Quote: D16

And those who cannot do this usually do not work alone.

=======
Here it is - "homespun truth of life"! But it is the plane that is withthe most effective element of the network-centric SYSTEM!
------------

Quote: D16

And a lot of Il-38 landed on the water? laughing It is better not to bring it to this.

========
I don’t know this! My Dad - "splashed down" on the IL-28, and in early spring (in March, it seems). Memories remained - for the rest of your life! By the way, it was LL who saved them! And even then - they barely had time.
---------

Quote: D16

I believe that such a Swiss, a reaper and a player like the Be-200 is not needed, since he does all this equally badly.

=========
But this is already your PERSONAL opinion, which I not going to challenge! If you want - think so!
For sim:

[svp67]

Quote: barclay

Be-200.

Whose engines are we going to install on them?

[Vadim237]

PD 8 - already assembled for testing

[venik]

Quote: svp67

Quote: barclay

Be-200.

Whose engines are we going to install on them?

=======
Perm - PD-10.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: barclay

Now we have survived ... If we had set up production, then this is one of the areas of application for the Be-200.

The title of the article is characteristic "Ministry of Defense is seeking.... "The wording, however.

[venik]

Quote: Stroporez

The title of the article is characteristic "The Ministry of Defense is looking for ...." The wording, however.

=======
Well, think of something BETTER!

[Sling cutter]

Quote: venik

Well, think of something BETTER!

Well, for example, "We are looking for talents" or "Come on girls"

[venik]

Quote: Stroporez

Well, for example, "Looking for talents" or "Come on girls" wink

========
Here it is more suitable: "Come on, guys!" ....

[Sling cutter]

Quote: venik

Here it is more suitable: "Come on, guys!" ....

"Hello, Vova, we are looking for talents!"

[Vadim Ananyin]

I remember a Tu-16 in Yelizovo, I was a kid, I climbed near the caponiers, I almost didn't get the guards from the guard. Gorby - unkempt merged, bitch. And during this time nothing has been created, who is to blame?

[Zaurbek]

I'm looking at this device and I think it is possible to remove these two 500 hp motors, make a "clean" wing and put 3-117 horses in the rear of the theater (TV1500-1700 type)? How do you think?

[Piramidon]

Quote: Zaurbek

put in the ass

Doesn't sound very good. Well, at least in the aft or tail section.

[Thrifty]

Zaur, first of all, the presence of an engine, we are just launching a line of them, therefore, there are fewer ready-made ubplas available!

[val43]

You will have to do it practically from scratch - the centering will shift back and significantly.

[Zaurbek]

Well, this is understandable ... somewhere the front honor will be lengthened, somewhere the tanks will be transferred. I, in principle ... my own, Russian theater of operations ... is, it is produced.

[mark1]

Quote: Zaurbek

make a "clean" wing and put it in the rear of the theater (TV3-117 type)

+ but in what condition the groundwork for the VK-1500 I do not know, the VK-1600 is in the layout.

[Genry]

Quote: Zaurbek

you can remove these two 500 hp motors, make a "clean" wing and put it in the back

[Zaurbek]

I looked about it ... if they confirm their parameters, then this is a breakthrough

[Reserve buildbat]

The question of fuel efficiency remains. The internal combustion engine is still 10 times more economical than the theater. Not to mention the thermal signature.

[D16]

The internal combustion engine is still 10 times more economical than the theater. Not to mention the thermal signature.

This, to put it mildly, is not entirely true. I don’t know about TV-3-117, but TV-7-117 has a specific consumption of 200g / hp h. For comparison, the aircraft Rotax 914 has a maximum continuous mode of 208 g / hph, or 75% of this, respectively 156. The RED A-03 also has about 156 g / hph

[GEOID]

Are you the wrong Zaurbek from Military Parity? )))
Who produces exactly TV3-117? VK 2500 probably?

[Zaurbek]

Yes. I communicate on parity

[GEOID]

Clear. I go there too.

[Zaurbek]

I saw it .. very nice. There are extremes here and there, but in general, you can get an objective picture.

[GEOID]

Not sure. There are five or six people. Without, Submariner, Boa constrictor, 155 ... well, I don't remember who else.
The devil is in the little things. 99% here are not who they say they are.
For several years I have been torturing-scan the LK or at least name the VUS ...
And then they will soak it off ... How not to pass yourself off as a specialist ... I DON'T know, I studied with his father.
The rest ... The same Boa constrictor ... 1 type in Mediterranean. A-A-A ... !!!
The advantage of many Nicks - I know about piz..dobols EVERYTHING))) Well, they will be banned for the fiftyth time ... problem)))

[venik]

Quote: Zaurbek

I'm looking at this device and I think it is possible to remove these two 500 hp motors, make a "clean" wing and put 3-117 horses in the rear of the theater (TV1500-1700 type)? How do you think?

=======
Dear Zaur! I think all this "good" during takeoff, will collapse on the head of the "inventor"! ( ) ..... Your proposed design - cannot fly, by definition!!! (centering will be violated!)
PS Although Kronstadt has been developing such a design for a long time.
For example, "Sirius" (the project provides: reconnaissance, strike and even AWACS options):

,
There are other constructions (heavier):

(similar to "Altius", but more powerful!)

[D16]

put in the back of the theater (TV3-117 type) horses for 1500-1700? How do you think?

And attach external fuel tanks to the "clean" wings for all the saved kilograms .

[Anzhey V.]

Very good news.

PLO aviation is an extremely painful topic for our country.

UAV-PLO, of course, are unlikely to be able to completely replace manned PLO aircraft in terms of functionality, but at least they will provide cover for coastal areas.

We are waiting, we believe, we hope.

[Bez 310]

Quote: Anjay V.

UAV-PLO, ... at least provide cover for coastal areas.

How can UAVs do this?

[Anzhey V.]

The technical aspects of the project are still unknown to me, I do not know how exactly they will do it)

The Americans are successfully working in this direction (at least they are able to deploy search buoys with the help of UAVs and this is a serial technology) - I hope we will pull it off.

[Bez 310]

Quote: Anjay V.

they know how to deploy search buoys with the help of UAVs - I hope we will pull it out.

Let's say we "pull out", that is, we learn to set up buoys,
so, what is next? Buoys, by themselves, cannot cover anything ...
I understand correctly that your knowledge of the search for a submarine is at the level
slogans like "We are waiting, we believe, we hope"?
If everything is as I understand it, then the question is why are you writing
comments about what you don't understand?
If something is too personal, then don't answer ...

[Anzhey V.]

Buoys, by themselves, cannot cover anything ...

No, I understand that perfectly.

Judging by the information in the press, it will be an unmanned complex, where several UAVs will work in tandem - some deploy acoustic buoys, others carry homing anti-submarine torpedoes.

You are trying to "push me to the wall" as if I were responsible for the development and delivery of weapons.

And yes, I hope it will be a working serial complex. You can still hope, I think?

[Bez 310]

Quote: Anjay V.

You can still hope, I think?

Yes, you can hope. Nothing else remains ...

[GEOID]

Quote: Anjay V.

are able to exhibit with the help of UAVs

Is the word "System" familiar to you?
UAV, its not the most important element.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Bez 310

How can UAVs do this?

How do manned aircraft do it?

[Bez 310]

Quote: Jacket in stock

How do manned aircraft do it?

There are special people in manned planes who
analyze data from buoys, and determine the order of further
action. In Tu-142 there are at least 5 such people - 3 navigators
and 2 operators of RGP.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Bez 310

In Tu-142 there are at least 5 such people.

And?
Tu142 was outdated in the last century.
The main thing in the search is the sensors, and only the analysis, i.e. the determination of the signs of the presence of a goal in the data can also be done by technology, and sometimes much more successfully. I agree about determining the order of further actions, but in peacetime this can also be done by the operator on the shore / base ship, and in the "special period" the protocols can be special.
But the drone can fly for days, which is beyond the power of any aircraft.

[Bez 310]

Quote: Jacket in stock

The main thing in the search is sensors

Yes Yes...

Quote: Jacket in stock

But the drone can fly for days

Why "fly for days"?

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Bez 310

Why "fly for days"?

Then, in order to ensure constant, that is, continuous, control of the territory.
Or expand this very territory to a size inaccessible to the plane.

[Bez 310]

Quote: Jacket in stock

to ensure constant, that is, continuous, control of the territory.

Thank you, everything is clear.
I used to be involved in military affairs,
well, like with aviation, but it's not in my head
will come to discuss some aspects
in artillery despite what I know
a little about ballistics.
So why are so many commentators alive
discussing the "anti-submarine case", nothing
not understanding it? And then we are surprised that
that we are all run by very "effective
managers ", not literate specialists.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Bez 310

So why are so many commentators alive
discussing the "anti-submarine case", nothing
not understanding it?

Are we discussing anti-submarine warfare?
Not even close.
Or, in your opinion, is the discussion about the advantages of an unmanned aircraft over a manned aircraft related to anti-submarine warfare?

[venik]

Quote: Anjay V.

UAV-PLO, of course, are unlikely to be able to completely replace manned PLO aircraft in terms of functionality, but at least they will provide cover for coastal areas.

=======
And here, Andrzej (or Andriy - I don’t know which is better?) - "I disagree with you"!
UAV "Altius" (as an example) has a flight range of 10000 kilometers !!! And the loitering time is up to 2 (TWO !!!) days!
Name me any plane that is capable of THIS !!!

[Anzhey V.]

has a flight range of 10000 kilometers !!!

Good day, Broom)

I try to proceed from the fact that anti-submarine equipment and weapons are of considerable weight and size - therefore, just in case, I try not to exude excessive optimism about the flight range.

If it is big, then, of course, I will only be glad)

PS: I'm Andrey, it's just that the nicknames were taken on the site, so I had to take the Polish version of my name.

[Thrifty]

The fleet needs a heavy ubpla, with a carrying capacity of at least 6 tons, with an afar, we do not have this in stock. It is necessary to urgently create, by order of the fleet, an uav, in fact, from scratch, but it is also necessary to restore long-range aviation for the military fleet by password. Using Altius is a half measure, but as they say, take at least a cat if you don't have a dog. ..

[antivirus]

is a cat better than a tit? and the crane? for the hands of the country - it is not a question to create and bring to a series - A KEEP THEN FOR 30-50 YEARS.
IT IS THE STABILITY OF FINANCE AND THE EXTERNAL AND INTERNAL POLICY OF THE COURSE. those chap - A. Siluanov OR DR CHIEF FINANCIALIST.

[Anzhey V.]

It is necessary to urgently create an uav by order of the fleet

Our fleet is busy with megalomania, they have no time for armaments. They think about projects of aircraft carriers, present nuclear torpedoes, nuclear destroyers want the size of a battle cruiser.

And aviation in our Navy has long turned into an “unloved stepdaughter”.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Thrifty

you need a heavy ubpla, with a carrying capacity of at least 6 tons, with afar

Why exactly 6 tons? Someone counted?
And why with AFAR? Is he supposed to fight a bunch of Super Hornets?

[Svetlana]

Quote: Thrifty

The fleet needs a heavy ubpla, with a carrying capacity of at least 6 tons, with an afar, we do not have this in stock.

You can create a reconnaissance and strike disk-shaped airship-helicopter. The diameter of the airship is 152m. The height of the inflated shell of the airship is 27m.

Rotation of the shell with blades at the equator of the airship disk by means of two turbofan engines NK-12MP.

The exhaust of the engines is directed by the exhaust ducts inside the airship shell.

Calculation of the carrying capacity of the airship-helicopter:

[Svetlana]

Above, the figure shows an annular equatorial frame with blades at a disk airship - a helicopter. (See https://patents.google.com/patent/US20190112023A1/en).
Diagonal carbon-fiber pipes - braces, located in the gap between the adjacent (in the annular array of the wings) wings, under the action of the force of the air-speed pressure on the wings - the blades, work in tension.
Wing blades on the circular perimeter of the disk airship consist of three aerodynamically profiled surfaces connected in the form of a Y letter turned to the side.
The gas-tight envelope on the circular perimeter of the disk airship is filled with gray. The upper and side blades of the disk airship are filled with green. The lower blades of the disk airship are filled with light blue. The segments of carbon-fiber pipes 380, 381 and similar segments in the annular array are longer than the segments 391,393, 395 and similar segments in the annular array. Sections 380,381 and similar ones in the annular array of segments are located on the outer equatorial diameter of the disk airship. In order to obtain the lifting force (when the airship disk rotates around its vertical axis), the segments of the carbon fiber pipe (along which the upper and lower blades adjoin) are located with a positive angle of attack. That is, the segments of the carbon fiber pipe 380 (and similar segments in the annular array of segments along which the upper and lower blades adjoin) are located with a positive angle of attack. Sections of carbon fiber pipe 381 (and similar segments in the annular array of segments,) are located with a negative angle of attack. The rotation of the two blades shown in the figure (a total of 128 blades) goes from top to bottom. The speed of the oncoming wing-blade is directed in the figure from bottom to top. Therefore, diagonal carbon-fiber pipes-braces, located in the gap between adjacent (in the annular array of wings) wings, work in tension.

[venik]

Quote: Thrifty

Using Altius is a half measure, but, as they say, take at least a cat if you don't have a dog. ..

========
I prefer to look for a cat, even if only a dog appears in the offer!
--------

Quote: Thrifty

The fleet needs a heavy ubpl, with a payload not less than 6 tons, with afar

========
Why exactly 6 tons? Why not 5 or 7 ??? WHERE are these calculations?
For your information:
"Carrying capacity" Be-12 - 3 (three!) tons, Ka-27 - 2 tons ... And somehow it was enough ...

[lucul]

At present, reconnaissance is rather difficult, and the adoption of the Altius drone will be able to solve this problem, since its characteristics allow for round-the-clock reconnaissance at a long distance.

Can we work out an option where Altius takes off and lands on the water?

[keeper03]

It was necessary to think about it the day before yesterday !!! Was it itching urgently ?! Better late than never! Silts are living out their days, something similar needs to be developed!

[Vladimir61]

By searching, you can find and read the article "Packing weapons: the Ministry of Defense in search of an anti-submarine drone"

from April 2, 2021.

[GEOID]

Spectacular ....
I saw a poster at school: "The current generation of Soviet people will live under communism."
Find the navigator of the submarine and he will tell you everything about this picture in foul language.

[Vadim237]

Well, he can hardly carry torpedoes, but bombs.

[oleg parkhachev]

When is it real

[oleg parkhachev]

When is it real

[rocket757]

In the future, it will have to be a medium or heavy class vehicle equipped with means of searching for submarines, as well as weapons capable of hitting submarines. In addition, the drone must have the ability to integrate into a single network with other vehicles.

You can want a lot, BUT ... you just want to write - Where is the money, Zin ??? - but I have to write - Do we HAVE the appropriate equipment ???

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: rocket757

we HAVE the appropriate equipment ???

There will be TK from the Ministry of Defense, there will be equipment. The main thing is that the naval officers understand that without PLO aircraft there is no way and it is time to wake up.

[Thrifty]

Jacket in stock - take the microprocessors out of your jacket pockets? You need to create an elementary base from scratch! Otherwise, we have developed a processor from scratch based on those 10nm process, and there is nowhere to produce it in our country - there is no equipment needed! So, we entered into an agreement with Taiwan so that the Chinese do not leave our processor, so we will receive a batch of ready-made ones in September-October of this year! Arranges? ??

[rocket757]

Quote: Thrifty

Otherwise, we have developed a processor from scratch based on those 10nm process, and there is nowhere to produce it in our country - there is no equipment needed!

This is what I meant !!! Element base, ie processors and SENSORS !!! modern, reliable, small-sized and other, other !!!
Not everything is so simple ... even for money it is NOT EASY !!!

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Thrifty

Jacket in stock - take the microprocessors out of your jacket pockets? An elementary base needs to be created from scratch

Needed, but not from scratch.
Like the same now, missiles fly, torpedoes shoot, radars and optoelectronic systems on airplanes and air defense systems are working.
Of course, I want it better. But this is far from zero.

[Vadim237]

And then, they developed a processor from scratch according to those 10nm process, and there is nowhere to produce it in our country - there is no equipment needed! 45 - 28 nm for the military will be more than sufficient - 10 nm and less for the civilian sector is released so that the production would pay off.

[rocket757]

Quote: Jacket in stock

There will be TK from the Ministry of Defense, there will be equipment.

Oh, not the fact that it will be what you want, what it is NECESSARY !!!

[GEOID]

Quote: Jacket in stock

The main thing in the search is the sensors, and only the analysis, i.e. the determination of the signs of the presence of a goal in the data can also be done by technology, and sometimes much more successfully.

Well, show me this technique on PLA planes. Just wondering.
Not American, let alone Japanese.
Separately: And how can a jacket be in stock?
If you insert a comma ... it doesn't work.
The jacket is civilian. In reserve, a former military man up to 60.
Civilian, former military? In Russian-Voenpense.
You there will somehow decide on a self-name .....))) Shyutka.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: GEOID

: And how can a jacket be in stock?
Jacket-civil

Are you kidding, or don't you really know the terminology?
The jacket is an officer who graduated from a civilian university.
Boot is an officer who graduated from a military school.

[GEOID]

No. The infantry might have it. I am in aviation and navy. We had - "Forester". In VVVAUSh students of the forestry academy flew. And so it happened.

[GEOID]

And on WITHOUT you're in vain.
He is a graduate of VVVAUSH 1978 profile MRA (Marine Missile). He passed from navigator Tu-16, Tu-22M2, navigator of the regiment, to NSH 310 OPLAP. Mongohto.
There are no such on the forum.
I am also a VVVASH graduate, PLA profile. Be-12, Il-38.
Graduated in the department of PLB of the Pacific Fleet.
Are there anti-submarines on the forum at the level of the headquarters of the fleet?
No. So listen to what the "grown-up guys" are saying.
And then some began to bend their fingers.

[123456789]

Quote: Stroibat stock

The internal combustion engine is still 10 times more economical than the theater.

and much cheaper

[Pavel57]

The drone can be shot down. And no one will answer.